Modern Wisdom - #809 - Cory Allen - The Spiritual Pursuit Of Becoming A Braver Person

Episode Date: July 13, 2024

Cory Allen is a meditation coach, podcaster, and an author. We all face challenges in life. However, learning to navigate your emotions and understanding the role that your thoughts play in your wellbeing can make hard times much more manageable. Expect to learn why so many people feel like they are drifting in life, why genuine change is so hard to achieve, how to fully embrace your emotions & feel more alive, where the negative voice in our heads comes from, how to set goals and habits that actually stick, how to learn to trust yourself and much more... Sponsors: See discounts for all the products I use and recommend: https://chriswillx.com/deals Get 10% discount on all Gymshark’s products at https://gym.sh/modernwisdom (use code MW10) Get a Free Sample Pack of all LMNT Flavours with your first box at https://drinklmnt.com/modernwisdom (discount automatically applied) Get a 20% discount on Nomatic’s amazing luggage at https://nomatic.com/modernwisdom (use code MW20)  Extra Stuff: Get my free reading list of 100 books to read before you die: https://chriswillx.com/books Try my productivity energy drink Neutonic: https://neutonic.com/modernwisdom Episodes You Might Enjoy: #577 - David Goggins - This Is How To Master Your Life: https://tinyurl.com/43hv6y59 #712 - Dr Jordan Peterson - How To Destroy Your Negative Beliefs: https://tinyurl.com/2rtz7avf #700 - Dr Andrew Huberman - The Secret Tools To Hack Your Brain: https://tinyurl.com/3ccn5vkp - Get In Touch: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chriswillx Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/chriswillx YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/modernwisdompodcast Email: https://chriswillx.com/contact - Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello friends, welcome back to the show. My guest today is Corey Allen. He's a meditation coach, podcaster and an author. We all face challenges in life. However, learning to navigate your emotions and understanding the role that your thoughts play in your wellbeing can make hard times much more manageable. Expect to learn why so many people feel like they are drifting in life, why genuine change is so hard to achieve, how to fully embrace your emotions and feel more alive, where the negative voice in our heads comes from, how to set goals and habits that actually stick, how to learn to trust yourself and much more.

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by going to nomadic.com slash modern wisdom and using the code MW20 at checkout. That's nomadic.com slash modern wisdom and MW20. A checkout. But now, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome… Corey Allen. Alan, welcome to the show. Thank you, Chris. It's so good to be back, man. All the way from episode 12 to episode something like 812 now. That's insane. Do you feel all 800 episodes in your body? I do, like a burden, like a lifetime fentanyl addict

that's just been accumulating all of this stuff. Yeah, it's like 800 track marks. That is it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 800 one night stands, essentially. I know I tell you this, you know, every time we see each other and we're podcast, but man, I'm just so proud of you. And like, just seeing the trajectory and the growth from episode 12 to episode 812 is just,

man, it's one of the few things that gets me fired up more than seeing people, friends, people I care about succeed. And it's beautiful, man. So I love it. I'm so happy for you. And this is just step one. This is phase one, man. God, don't say that.

Oh yes. I very much appreciate that. That's very, very kind, dude. I've been a huge fan of your stuff for a long time. So I guess maybe a lot of the audience might not be familiar. I can give a little bit of a background. I found the best guided meditation that I've ever done was your release into now your original one with binaural beats.

And then we came on and we spoke about binaural beats. And I'm always interested in the trajectory of people that have got a background in, in meditation and then try and apply it. You know, not the asceticism live in a cave, a cave somewhere, just aim for eternal peace, but actually, okay, how do we use the insights of mindfulness and having a little bit of a space between stimulus and response? What goes into that space? What do we do tactically?

What are the strategies that we can use with this little bit more open perspective that we view the world to make us a bit more effective? And I think one of the questions that comes up a lot of the time when I look at your work is, why do you think that so many people feel like they're drifting through life? Like life happens to them rather than the other way around. Yeah.

I mean, that's first off, you pointed out like one of the most important things in all of the meditation journey, which a lot of people never talk about, you know, it's being aware of that space between stimulus and response and then knowing what to do and why you're doing something in that moment and what the changes are. I mean, that's really the name of the game. Speaking to your question in terms of why people sort of end up in the situation that they're in in life is that, you know, whenever we're growing up, we're becoming adults, we're completely unaware. We're trying to figure out who we are, like what we like, how to live, how to be a human in the world. And ultimately what we're doing is we're just caught

in this momentum of distraction, of a reaction. We're just reacting to everything in life. We're reacting to our parents. Then we go insert ourselves into a social situation. We start reacting to everything in school. We react to our teachers. And then when we become young adults, we start reacting to society, right? So we're not ever really clear in the moment

about what's going on. We're just simply kind of reacting to everything that's happening around us. And as that happens, that the world around us in which we're reacting to, because we are not self aware, we're not making intentional choices in the present moment, rather, we're in this kind of autopilot, fight or flight mode, to where we're just reacting, the world kind of forms around us. And all of those behavioral patterns, all those behavioral habits start to take this shape and then we start relying on those patterns because they are working for us in terms, in the sense that they're just keeping us alive, they're keeping us going, right? But what happens is that

those patterns form so gradually that we mistake those ways of thinking and those ways of being for what's quote unquote normal and for who we are. And ultimately what happens is we mistake that for what's possible. And so that's where people get really stuck not being able to make the changes in their life that they want. It's because they mistake what has happened to happen in their life, the chance of everything that they've experienced, and then the autopilot reactions that they've made over the entire course of their experience of life with everything that is, of what is, of how things can be. And it's not until you increase that self-awareness

and begin to see yourself from the outside in and the inside out that you begin to realize that, hold on a second, I actually have say in the matter. Like life isn't happening to me, I can happen to life. And it's that switch of perspective that allows you to start making these intentional choices in the present moment, a lot of which are breaking the reactive behaviors that have developed

over a long period of time. And that's really where meditation can be incredibly useful. And that space that you were talking about, the beginning comes into play. Yeah. What do you mean when you talk about more being possible? How do we change our definition of what is possible, given that our knowledge is largely informed by the experiences that we've had in life? Like, how do we step outside of ourselves? is largely informed by the experiences that we've had in life. Like how do we step outside of ourselves?

What does it even mean to do that? Yeah, well, it means that the, you have to ultimately change the negative, limiting thinking habits that you're under, because you spend your whole life thinking a certain way. You have a certain mindset and ultimately you're identifying yourself with a certain language, it was a certain story and that story is what holds you back because you know,

most of the things that we look at in life, you know, that one would want to achieve, they are very possible. Like the reason we want to do them a lot of times is cause we see a lot of other people doing them. Like people could see you and like, here's the successful podcasts or how did he do that? Well, you know, you're doing an amazing job, but there are a lot of successful podcasters out there. You know what I mean? So it means that it's like it's available. It's out there. So what is preventing an individual that would want to do that from being able to go and do that?

And that would be their mindset and the way that they think about themselves. Right. So ultimately how that plays out. And if you break that out into real life, a person would, let's use you as the example, they say, I wanna do what Chris is doing. Like I have the burning passion, I have the feeling. And then they feel the feeling arising that's pushing them forward, that makes them want to make an action.

And then what happens is that they go right up to the precipice of going to make that action. And now they're on the edge of change. They're on the edge of where something is becoming possible. And this is where we're getting into your question really is like, so now what happens at that precipice, they have a negative thought that arises. And it's generally like, what are you doing? Like, you can't do this.

This is too complicated. Like not you, someone else, you know, this isn't for you. You can't do this. Or they'll come up with the, the, you know, this isn't for you, you can't do this, or they'll come up with the, you know, the negative thoughts will go, well, you know, it's, the market's too populated now, whatever bullshit that it needs to come up with, will come up with, and then a person goes,

oh, well, there's my quote unquote proof that I can't do that, and so I'll stop working and I won't try. Now, what's really interesting about that is I spend a lot of time thinking about what that moment is. Like what's actually happening there? And I wanted to drill down to that on a animalistic level, you know, like a biological and like evolutionary psychology. Let's look, feel that, right? So in myself, even though I'm very good at bypassing that,

and I've worked with it a lot just over my entire life of creating creative projects. Because whenever you're making creative projects, the first thing, the second you go to release something or put something out in the world, that goes up times 10, right? So I started like really sitting with that. And I'm like, what's going on here? What is this process?

Let's break this down so I can explain it to myself and to other people. And we can really figure out what's going on and hijack that, move that out of the way so we can actually take the action and do what we want to do in life. So I started thinking about it and as I sat with that feeling anytime it arose in me, I realized that it is the same type of animal fear that you feel in like a fight or flight response. So if you go and you stand next to a river, you feel this feeling coming off this raging river.

It's like a magnet pushing against you. And actually you feel the scariness that there's something kind of bigger than you coming off of it. And generally people will take a few steps back without even thinking about it, right? They'll realize after the fact that, oh, I backed up from the edge of that river, it felt dangerous. Same thing if you're looking over the edge of a building, you get this feeling that you can't explain. There's like this magnetic force pushing against you. You take a few steps back because you're like, oh, scary, you know. So ultimately what that is, is that is your amygdala, that's your animal brain sending signals to you going, hey, this isn't safe. You're going to be vulnerable back up, right?

Because obviously it wants your body to survive. Now, you know, if you get into a raging river, you're going to be very vulnerable. If you fall off the edge of a building, you're going to be very vulnerable. There's no more vulnerable state than falling off of the edge of a building, you're going to be very vulnerable. There's no more vulnerable state than falling off of the edge of a building. If we look at that, we can see that that's basically our body trying to protect us from being vulnerable and dying. Now, if we map that over to a creative space or a space of personal growth, whenever we go to move into the unknown within the map of ourselves, the way that we think about ourselves, the way that we think about what's possible in our world, we go to move into the unknown.

That same thing triggers. But the vulnerability is not the vulnerability of the physical world. It's the vulnerability of the ego and of our emotional world. So basically if we were to go, and this gets a little complicated, but if we were to move into this space where we're like, you know what, I'm going to try, I'm going to get the, the account and start doing the podcast and going to reach out to people. What happens is that we become vulnerable to the world and our body wants to protect us from that. Because if we feel vulnerable, then we start to not feel capable. And we feel

like we might be injured or become inoperative in some way. A really interesting element to it too, is that our ego becomes vulnerable, not even through other people, but how we think about ourselves. Because we have this often inflated and distorted version of, like, our sense of self in the world and what we're capable of. And a lot of us spend a lot of time going around going, I could do that shit without ever trying. But we like to tell ourselves the story of like, sure, I could do that. I mean, I'm me, come on, I can do that, you know. But if that were to be challenged or put into question, we could verify or whether or not we were actually capable.

So the point is that this process is basically our animal brain trying to keep us safe and keep us in that quote unquote known space because the unknown is where the possibility lives and where vulnerability lives. But the second we recognize and begin to learn that that's the process that's unfolding, whenever we find ourselves in those spaces, we slow down and instead of just reacting to that feeling of fear, that feeling of resistance,

whatever it is, we understand the process, we see the arising thoughts of like, hey, my mind is starting to tell me a story. It's starting to fill my head with all of these different reasons and all this proof of why I need to not try this. But all this is, is not real. All this is, is my body trying to keep me

from being vulnerable. And so as you recognize that, you can then set that aside and start taking action in the moment. It's about identifying the negative behavior or the negative thought habit that's arising, the story that your mind and body is trying to tell yourself to keep it from being vulnerable, and then breaking that pattern,

breaking the momentum of that by basically exposing it with the truth, you know, let's use a more acute example than something that's a protracted project, like, um, launching a blog or a YouTube channel or a podcast or something. Something that almost everybody is going to have to do at some point is, uh, talk to someone that they're nervous to talk to. Maybe this is a guy going up to a girl that he likes in a bar or at

work ahead of being me too, uh, or it's a, uh, a woman, uh, maybe needing to say no to a friend or a family member that's particularly pushy, or maybe she's really ballsy and she's going to go up and talk to a guy and she's worried about being rejected and breaking all of the sex stereotypes. Um, let's just use that as a, maybe like a, a Petri dish for you to explain these steps. Um, so, you know, you are here, there is a person over there, you notice them. This arises, what are you doing there? What is the way that we can reframe?

Could you use something like that as a, an example to take us through this? Cause I really, I love the idea of the philosophy behind this, but I know that you're very strategic and tactical. What I want is to be able to give people some real concrete steps that they can go to so that when that feeling arises and their neck gets hot and their shoulders get tight and their hearing starts to ring, that they can, ah, that's where I go to. Yes, great. Absolutely. So first off, let's not even start in the bar. Let's start at home. Let's really

start with the journey starts because a lot of people will be sitting at home and they'll go, Oh man, I really like to meet somebody. I think I'll go out. And then that's whenever the negative start thing starts turning up. Right? So this is actually something I talk about in the book is, you know, I start with, um, some mental house cleaning, you know, all of these negative thinking habits that prevent us from making the growth and the changes that we want in our lives. Ultimately, things like overthinking, self-fulfilling prophecies, imposter syndrome, making assumptions about reality, all these things. Once we can recognize those programs that are running, then we have some, you know, offense against them once you can define them and label them. So this is one of the ones I

talk about is self-fulfilling prophecies. So first off, before we go to the bar, we're gonna, or wherever it is that we're going, we're gonna start telling ourselves a story then. So really what's gonna happen, that's gonna affect how we feel whenever we get there. So we're going to be sitting there. We're going to go, I want to go out. I want to meet somebody like, bud, I'm not that good looking. Look, I'm a bald 40 year old, you know, let's, I don't know. Um, and like, well, you know, but I, maybe I'll, maybe I'll try. Right. And so you, now you start, you start chewing this thing over in your mind.

So this right here is where we can start intervening. We can start disrupting the flow of our thinking habits and our patterns right now. Because what's gonna happen is that if we start thinking like, ah, no one's gonna like me, it's gonna be awkward, it's gonna be weird, that is what's going to happen. Because you're thinking about this, and so what you're thinking about this. And so,

you know, what's your, what's your thinking influences how you feel and how you feel influences how you act and how you act influences who you are in the world. So if you go into the situation, so then you go to the bar and you're thinking like, yeah, well, I'm glad I made it, but you know, no one's going to talk to me. I don't know. I'm ugly. I suck. This sucks. Then you're going to be, as you mentioned earlier, you're going to be closed off, you're going to be tense, you're going to be awkward, you're not going to look at anyone in the eye, you're not going to be yourself. And so by allowing yourself to believe that story and not recognizing it as a lie, then you're going to manifest, and I don't mean in a metaphysical

way, I mean just in a literal way, you're going to create that outcome because you're under the influence of that story, right? Well, the precise thing that you're fearing will happen is happening and you're making it happen. Exactly, exactly. Just because you're not being yourself, right? So let's say that we start there and we go, all right, so where's the proof of this? Right? So I feel a little awkward. I feel like no one's going to like me, but I have no proof of this? Right, so I feel a little awkward. I feel like no one's gonna like me, but I have no proof of this.

I haven't been there yet. I don't know what the energy is like, what the vibe like or who's there. So let's just go and be present and open-minded and lean into curiosity about the moment, as opposed to a story about something negative that's gonna happen, some catastrophizing. So continuing to go into curiosity or the openness

is really valuable because it allows you to, one, be more of yourself and see the world and what you experience in a very clear and fresh way as opposed to one that is like had been shaved down by your own fear, right? So whenever you get in there, now we're at the bar, right? And you're like, okay, cool, I made it, I'm looking around. And now you see someone that you want to go talk to. But then that fear comes up again. So you start getting awkward. You start, you know,

thinking negatively about yourself. And that whole script starts running again. Basically, it's a matter of repeating the same process. So you stop zoom out and look at the situation from outside of you. Like what's really happening. What's actually happening. You're just a guy standing in a bar. That's what's happening. Nothing like those are some low stakes. You're a guy standing in a bar, one of millions of people that are doing that in the very moment that you are doing it as well.

Now you think, well, that person, I don't know, I'll go talk to them. Maybe they don't like me. Stop zoom out, look at it from the outside. Where is the proof of that? Well, there isn't any. That's exactly right. There's no proof. You have no idea what the outcome is going to be. All of the idea of this person is going to like me, that's all projection. It's all you creating, you know, manipulating your own perception and creating a story and then believing, deciding to believe that it's true and then having it influence your actions. So by taking those moments, whenever you feel the fear in the body, whenever you feel the tension, when you feel the stress, it's using those alarms as reminders.

And this is one of the things I like doing is like the quote, unquote, bad habits of the negative things, use them as positive reminders. So whenever you feel the tension in the shoulders, they, oh yeah, that's my reminder to zoom out a little bit, relax, take some deep breaths and look at the situation from the outside. Let's look at reality, objectivity, as opposed to this weird little festering story that I have going on in my brain. So now, now you can look at the situation, I want to go talk to that person. And then you go, no, I'm not, uh, can't do that.

Not good looking enough. You go, stop. There's no proof of that. Let's relax, calm down, take some breaths, relax the body again. Now you start to approach and now you're like, well, hold on a second. Now I'm feeling anxious again, because what if, what if they turn me down? I'll feel like a dickhead and I'll feel embarrassed and I want to run out the fire escape, right?

Um, again, you stop and you go, look, let's zoom out. Let's look at this. There are no stakes here. Like there's no, you're just a guy that's going to go say maybe 10 dumb words to somebody and either what's going to happen, either that person is going to go, it's great to meet you. Let's talk a little bit more. Or they're going to go, I'm actually here just with some friends. I don't really want to meet anyone right now. Like that's what you worried about? It's not a big deal.

It's, you know what I mean? If you really look at it from the big picture and you catch all of those little, the story compounding over time as you're approaching that situation, you see it just doesn't matter, right? And the beautiful part about doing that is that, you know, and a person may go through that process of watching their body, noticing the tension, relaxing, recognizing the story for a story, breaking that down, and working that in gradual steps

so that that becomes easier for them each time that they would say, go up and talk to someone in a bar. But the beautiful part about doing that once is that once you've done it once, then you expose the illusion of it being a big deal. Once you do it once, and if they say, do they wanna talk to you, or they do,

either way, it's fine. But after you've done it once, now you have a receipt. And this is where we can get into some beautiful self-trust and self-confidence building stuff. Because after you do that one thing, once you go, you know what, I actually, I did that, and it wasn't a that one thing, once you go, you know what? I actually, I did that and it wasn't a big deal. I'm still alive.

You know what I mean? I wasn't like strung up by my feet in the town square and put on, put on the internet and ridiculed. It was totally like nothing. It's all good. So then the next time it comes around, you can do it again. And you go, Hey, I was able already do that once. I checked the cell. I just do it one more time. There's no big deal.

I wonder how many people go through life obsessing over a thing that they never do once. Exactly. Exactly. Everyone then that's what people it's because they get the story that they start believing turns into this huge, complicated, like cosmically weighted thing that, um, you know, it becomes, it becomes scarier than reality. And this is where you're saying that this sort of thought patterns and your previous experiences, or not even your previous experiences, your previous, uh, imagined experiences begin to form reality.

They become more real than your reality. They define these new boundaries, despite the fact that these boundaries have never even been defined, set or tested. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. And so another good mantra to think about in terms of this is this is something else I touched on the book

is like we are so self-conscious. We always think the camera's on us, but really we are not that special to be honest with you. You know, like we all, people have this this idea of this kind of main character syndrome. Is there like, I'm the one everyone's paying attention to me, everyone's looking at me in this bar. If I do something stupid, everyone's gonna look at me. If I do something cool, everyone's gonna look at me and celebrate me. You know, whatever. We just feel like the attention is on us all the time. And it makes sense not to go too deep into like a philosophical idea again. But it makes sense is because from our point of view, our consciousness is like this flashlight moving out of the front of our head and everywhere we look in the world,

it seems as though the world is looking back at us. So like we look at people and like they look at us. We look at a tree, like, oh, there's a tree. I'm looking at, we feel like the world is looking at us because we are looking at the world, but we forget that it's just from the fact that our point of view is where it's at, makes it seem like we are the center of all things.

Like our head, our consciousness feels like the sun radiating light. Well, one thing that I always think about is the asymmetry between what you see of your own thoughts and what you observe of other people's thoughts in the actions that they take. And it's 10 billion to one, even the twin that you were born with, that's your best friend. Even the wife that you met when you were 16 and you've remained, even the mother that you've been so close to your entire life, no matter how well you know a person, the best you can ever hope for is some low grade 1960s internet bandwidth.

Like crackly CRT TV bullshit. Like that's the best if you see them every single second of the day, because the amount of information that you see of your own, the texture of your own mind as you vacillate back and forth between this thing and that thing. And all that you get to see, everyone else looks like a rational slick agent that's got their life together because you don't see the permanent sort of ping pong game that they had to go through in order to pick that cup up off the table or put the cup down, right? That was it. Whereas you saw yourself,

like, argue, am I going to pick it up? I might not pick it up. They're going to think, what if I pick it up by the handle? Like all of that happened. And I think that it, it can cause a kind of like sort of narcissistic solipsism, uh, that, that, that we're not only are we special, but we're especially flawed. Yes. Yes. Anything to keep us enamored with ourselves ultimately. And that's just another evolutionary tool. I believe it's like, as long as we're always focusing on ourselves, we'll

continue to shove food into the lowest hole in our head and try and procreate. That's really what we're doing here. But yeah, no, you're totally right. I think about that all the time. And what's even crazier is that not only do we know less than 1% of what's actually going on inside of someone else's universe, like in their body and their mind, but we know less than 1% about what's going on within ourselves. You think you have a bunch of brilliant ideas and that you're this person. Again, this is nothing I offer in the book. Write all that shit down.

Write it all on a piece of paper, tuck it away, your most incredible theories, all the big ideas that you walk around thinking, all the things that you think about yourself. Write it all down, stick it in an envelope envelope and come back and read it in a week. It will be very enlightening. One, you go, you go, what the fuck was I talking about? Yeah. Well, like, like it's sort of short term psychosis is what like an emotional state feels like did a couple of my friends have journaled more aggressively than me. And they say that they go back and read some of the stuff that they used to bother them. There's one in particular where I have a journal that I use for like big shit.

It's makeups and breakups and I'm about to leave country or change career or do whatever. So it's not, there's maybe like a hundred entries across my entire life. And, uh, one day I decided that the MC that wrapped over the music in the second R&B room of the Saturday club night that we ran, he told me he was leaving to go to another night in a different city. But I was adamant that this was going to be the end of the business. And because the Asian society, they only went because he was wrapping upstairs. And then if, if Asian sock doesn't go, then that's going to be the beginning of the cascade.

And I'm going to be homeless on the street and I'm going to have a gluten intolerance and live under a bridge. Like you know, this, this huge fucking snowball. And it was to me salient enough to put in my fucking day one journal, like the most important stuff that's been in there. And I go like, what the fuck are you thinking? Like why, why was that of all of the things that you could have had in your mind? But for that period, it was a, it's a big, big, big, big deal.

Yeah. It's wild how, you know, we confuse our emotional response with the intellectual material moving across the stage of our mind many times. So we have a feeling about something in our nervous system is reacting to it. And whatever, you know, mental formations, whatever thoughts may be pinging around our brain at the time get wrapped up in the emotional reaction. And then those get supercharged with whatever it is that we're feeling. And then what happens to you happens, you know, I think to wrap up the the notion I was talking about in terms of like feeling self-conscious, if you consider the fact that we all feel like we are the center of the universe, and there's a saying that goes, no one's ever thinking about you, they're always thinking about themselves.

And I like to add on to that that, and even if they are thinking about you, they're thinking about how you relate to them. So they're still thinking about themselves. They're just using you as this kind of interpersonal, uh, like you turn. Um, so if we think about that for a moment, it's like, hold on a second. We're all background players. Like there is no main character. We're all background characters. And that's a really freeing thing to consider. It's cause if everyone is going around

thinking about themselves, that means that we are, even the most famous person you can think of, like you're still thinking about how they relate to you. You know what I mean? It's not about them, it's about you. It's like you- Even more so, I think, even the more attention that is on somebody, the more it is about

how does that person relate to me? Absolutely. And so that's a very freeing concept because it means that whichever in that bar and you're like, Oh my God, everyone in here is looking at me. You go, look, we're all, no one is looking at me. No one cares. No one gives a shit that there's some dude in here, you know, trying to chat with someone for 30 seconds. it doesn't matter.

It's all good. And just remembering that is a great way to, I mean, some might hear that and go like, oh, well then, okay, now nothing matters. Everything falls apart. I'm going to turn to a nihilist. But that's, that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about is just turning the volume down a little bit and just easing up the pressure on yourself, relaxing, remembering that like, you have some space in life, you can move around,

you can do your thing and like, you're not under the microscope and you know, you don't, you don't have the spotlight syndrome on you all the time. Like it feels, you know, and the more that you start moving like that in life, the more that you can start to trust that because one of you are just like, you know, I'm going to just like, I start giving a fuck about all this, this like fear that people are

Judging me all the time and you just kind of relax in your skin a little bit And start doing what you want to do is paying attention to what you know Which you want to focus on not what other people are focused on and you'll realize that like Not only does that feel good and it's true that people don't really care what you're doing Which allows you to do more of what you want to do. Um, but then ironically, whenever you start moving in that way, then other people do become interested in you. But from a positive perspective, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy in the other direction. Exactly. Exactly. What role does bravery have here?

So I think that a lot of people think about bravery in terms of the world outside of them. You know, we think about it like, I need to face this thing, right? There's a challenge in the landscape, and I'm going to meet that challenge and overcome it. I think about bravery in terms of the other direction. I think about bravery is being able to hear what is arising inside of you. What is the thought that's coming up? What is the feeling and the intuitions coming up that you know in your gut is going to make you happy? It's going to be something that's going to become meaningful to you. That is the thing that is pulling you forward in life, not the thing that you're trying to force in life.

The more you can start listening to that voice and trusting that voice as opposed to this big complicated script that we're told we should care what other people are doing, care what other people think, care how other people are operating, care what other people find important, hit all of the beats of life that everyone says you're supposed to do this and you're supposed to do that. All of that stuff is total noise. It's what will make a person feel alive, will make a person build meaning is listening to that thing inside of them and being brave enough to trust it

in the face of what's going on outside of them. I think a lot of people that listen to podcasts like this one that are unreasonably reasonable and they're not crazy and they're not angry, you know, they're thoughtful, they ruminate, they consider how to do things well. They want to do things well. And I think that there is a big battle between intellect and intuition. And, you know, most people I think need tightening up, not loosening off. Most people need to be more thoughtful. They probably need to pay a little bit more attention to things. They probably need to not react quite so quickly, but there is a specific

cohort, maybe quite a large cohort of people, all of whom are listening to this podcast, that could do with actually allowing that intuition to come through a little bit more, to give a little bit more faith to the voice that's inside of them and to not rationalize a way to not come up with a good justification. And if you're smart, then your rationalizations and your justifications are pretty well walled off. They're very well fortress and buttressed and they're strong and sturdy because you use your intellect to disregard, ah, you know, that, that little voice, it's just a little voice.

Look at how powerful my intellect is. Look at the, you know, all of this cognitive horsepower that I can apply to this thing. Look at how well it served me when I was in university. Look at how well it serves me when I'm at work. Look at how well it served me when mum got ill and I did that thing. And it really, really, I didn't act from intuition there, but there's a time I think when that needs to learn to be turned off. And the problem is you have evidence that in the past using your intellect

made your life better and you now need to give a different, a whole other wing of thinking faith. You need to kind of have faith in whole other wing of thinking faith. You need to kind of have faith in that, a degree of faith and bravery. So how do you think about this sort of tension and this balance between intellect and intuition, between the rationalization and the little voice inside of you? Yeah, no, that's a great question. I mean, you know, and you're talking to someone who spent their entire life

in the camp that you just described, you know, or most of their life. Really, whenever I drill down into it, what I see is, first off, the intellect is just a beautiful processing machine. You know, that's really what it is, is it just processes data so wonderfully. And it is very useful, as you said. But it's not very magical. It's not very, there's not a lot of whimsy in the intellect a lot of times.

And people could hear that and they could come up with criticisms of that, but I would say to them, you know what I'm talking about, I would hope. And so like ultimately seeking balance, I think is really valuable. We want to be a full spectrum human. You want to be able to have all the intellectual power to be able to understand and logicize

and strategize and all these things. But you also want to be able to feel yourself. You want to feel your life. You want to be able to feel yourself. You want to feel your life. You want to be able to feel what's coming through in your experience. And generally, people that are so high in logic and low emotion, they're very closed off to what they're feeling, right?

Because like any system, these two things are sort of a shifting balance. Like you're either moving into a more intellectual and logical frame of mind, or you're moving to a more emotional mind. These two things generally don't overlap in intensity because they really can't. It's sort of like being,

if you were like laughing hysterically at something while being super sad at the same time, you would just look psychotic, right? Same type of thing. And so finding some balance in these two things is really important. And the main reason to me, I think that it's important is because, and I speak from experience on this, is that whenever you are in this intellectualizing state all the time, ultimately what happens is you isolate yourself. You isolate yourself from being able to really connect

with other people, being able to connect and feel yourself in deeper things in the world, because you come up with this, a self-proving system of thinking, which as you said, doesn't have a lot of flexibility, it doesn't have a lot of growth, and ultimately it makes it to where you don't, you know, one of the keys is you don't allow yourself

to be vulnerable to the world, to feelings, to other people, and in that vulnerability of our emotions comes connection. And connection is a huge part of the human experience. And it took me about 40 years to really understand this and feel this. But only until we stop relying completely on hyper-intellectualization,

can we open up and expand and allow ourselves to connect with other people because it's that like, it creates the space for us to have new information flow in, to have even new thoughts about ourselves and other people arise, to have new feelings arise. Someone who is always relying on intellectualization is probably trying to protect themselves from feeling those things because of some negative past experience.

Generally, I find that people that are hyper intellectual have had some, you know, sense of trauma from a pretty young age. And so they had to become hyper interdependent or I'm sorry, hyper independent and create a system in which they could not only defend themselves, but also teach themselves the world because they didn't have a parent, a father figure, something like that to teach them what they needed to learn. And so then you become reliant on that. And ironically, you then make your own intellect, the father figure, the God figure, whatever

symbol it needs to represent to you. And then it makes it to where you're fearful of disrespecting it and actually not minding it because you'll get in trouble by the God, you know, by this thing. And so create, so the ultimate to sum it up is being able to take the foot off the gas pedal a little bit and let a little space in there will allow you to be gently vulnerable to feeling, to new ways of thinking, to new ways of being in the world. And that being will create a new type of connection in your life and that connection will broaden

your human experience and make you kind of what I like to refer to as a more full spectrum human. Have you got any practices or mantras or places that you go to when you notice that happening? When you notice you pulling yourself away from feeling an intuition? Yes. Um, what I do is, and this is just me as I like to, to slow down and to sit with whatever it is that I notice I'm feeling.

And I start treating it like a glass of wine or something. Um, I just go like, what, okay, what notes are these? What, what am I, I'm smelling this, I'm tasting this, I'm getting this, and it's just gently kind of labeling what's arising without trying to judge it or shape it or anything, and just listening to it, because like those, the feelings that arise, that's information, like we have that,

and if you need to process this through your logic filter, here, here's something for you to run through there real quick. Like our bodies are designed with that functionality for a reason, right? Everything that's inside of us, uh, in our minds, our bodies, it's all evolved for a reason. And that's because our feeling and then ultimately also our intuition is trying to tell us something if not about us, about the world.

The fact is, is that it just speaks a different language than the intellect. But when you can hear the information and the wisdom in your feeling, outside of the language you're used to, if you're using for your intellect, you can learn this whole other dimension of life that exists. And it broadens your understanding and your awareness and ultimately it makes you a stronger and more rich and deep human being. But really the practice and stepping into that experience is recognizing whenever you ultimately it depends on where you're at. I would say starting at kind of the peak level, like recognizing whenever you're blocking something off. Like we can feel it's like that saying like the soul knows, you know, but the mind doesn't.

You can feel that kind of dull, weird sense of feeling in yourself and your body, maybe manifesting in like tension in your stomach or something like that. But you can feel that in the body. And what if you recognize that that's whenever you use your mindful awareness to slow down and just start listening and just go like, okay, what is this? I feel tension in the stomach. What is this? It's like, oh, it's, um, it feels like fear. It feels like, um, insufficiency.

It feels like, uh, like, uh, unlovable mess or something like that. I feel like, what am I feeling? And then the more that you start just noting and quickly labeling without overthinking, just intuitively labeling these notes of feelings that are arising, then they'll start to expand. And that's where your really strong intellect comes into play.

That's where you can reuse that thing that a person has cultivated over their entire life. Cause now that's the superpower. And you can use that to work into this other place in yourself. So if you are in a conversation with someone like a partner or something like that, and for example, this is a classic move, it's like, let's say you start talking about finances or something like that, and you like, oh, you get closed off, you feel tension, maybe you feel a little like anxious or weird, or it might present as frustration, but really, there's a lot more than going on. So you notice, okay, why do I feel that way every time we talk about this? We've talked on this topic. You go into it and you just go, okay,

what is that? What is this feeling? It's like, I feel, actually, I feel anxious. I feel a little frustrated. I feel scared. I feel like I'm in trouble. Like what are all these? And the more that you kind of sit with that and allow it to unfold and use that strong intellect processing center to sift through and be able to label and identify and track back those feelings, ultimately what'll happen is you'll go,

oh, I feel this way because my family struggled with money and my parents were like, uh, emotionally abusive every time that the concept of money came up. And so now I'm scared that this is going to manifest in my relationship and I'm going to have the same problems and basically have a reenactment with my partner that I had whenever I was a child. I love the idea of treating a sort of wall of. Unobserved feelings, like a glass of wine.

Uh, and, uh, you know, like a, um, like a musical sound, you're an audio engineer, um, and you go, that's, that's sound. You go, well, yeah, it's sound, but what is like, let's pick this apart. Oh, well, this sort of, that sort of low rumble, there's sort of this sub bass and then, oh, there's like some sort of high notes up there as well. Yet this idea of using, just giving yourself the mindfulness gap again and allowing your intellect to be the superpower that you can deconstruct this thing with. the superpower that you can deconstruct this thing with. Um, what's the trigger, you know, for the non meditationally inducted that are listening, this thing arises.

And I think that this is the point that so it's that zero to one. It's the never talking to the girl in the bar. It's the never noticing when you actually get carried away. How can people just be a little bit more deft and adept at doing that? Yeah. I would say you just start paying attention, start paying attention more to, and you have to do anything and there's no real skill to learn. It's just notice where your focus is.

Start paying attention to that. And if you're in a social situation or whatever, and you're hanging out and normally maybe you start talking shit or something like that, and you realize like, I don't, that doesn't really feel good. I don't want to do that. Then you just kind of note it and you're like, all right, well, next time you'll just pay attention. And the more that you start doing that, it's kind of like your tongue going to a sore tooth in your mouth. Like it can't resist it. Your attention will start doing the same thing. So then you'll notice again, the next time that you start doing that behavior, and you'll be like, Hmm, there it is again, you just notice while it's happening, right? So it's just, you know, labeling the thing that you want to change, and then start

watching for it. And then as you start watching for it, then you will slowly over time, notice that there's some space around those things. And that space is where you can start to take action. So it's really just paying attention more to what you're saying in the present moment, how you're acting in the present moment, noticing your reactions. And as you focus more on those things,

that awareness will start to expand more and more and more, and you'll see that you can actually apply intentional choice-making in those moments, as opposed to just repeating the autopilot behaviors again and again. What have you come to believe about imposter syndrome? I think a lot of people want to live boldly. That's a desire that they want in their life to take control, to do things. What, where does imposter syndrome play a role here?

I think that imposter syndrome, if you are in a situation where you start feeling it, it's pretty simple. It's like you wouldn't be there if you weren't good enough. People don't invite you to go, you know, to be like, hey, let's, I'm gonna give you a raise and give you a promotion. And then you're like, oh God, I don't, I don't know if I can go, you know, hang with all these executives.

It's like, they didn't invite you by accident. Like they invite, they brought you there because you belong there, because you are capable, because ultimately you probably were more impressive than the people that they have. That's why they wanna to get you in there to try and add value. And you can just map that onto any other area in life.

It's like, one of you were sitting around thinking like, oh, I'm here, but I'm not good enough to hang. It's like, you were invited because you were good enough. But if it's in a situation where you have yet to enter that space, again, I would go back to recognizing that imposter syndrome as just a narrative that's in your mind and looking for the proof. Where's the proof of this?

Because our negative thoughts hate facts. They really hate facts because facts shatter and you know, delusion ultimately. So that's what imposter syndrome is. It's just a delusion because it's something that hasn't happened yet. You're thinking like, oh, I don't belong here. Well, you belong where?

You're not there yet. You know? So whenever you apply this notion of like, this is again, just this narrative that's arising for you, you can help. You can start releasing that and then actually taking the action to move into where does it want to go. One of the strategies that a lot of people rely on, I think, in an effort to keep moving

life forward to feel like they're happening to life is setting goals, long-term goals, medium goals, 90 day sprints broken down to daily actions. And where do you stand on goal setting and habits? Yeah, I think that both of those are huge. I mean, um, especially goal setting is really good for people because, um, you know, and I would see, say, uh, setting attainable goals is really valuable because, um, you know, one of the negative thinking habits that really haunts people is not being able to thinking that they can't achieve something.

So they start like, I'm going to try meditating, you know, and they tried for five minutes and then they never tried again. And they tell themselves the story. Like, Oh, well, I guess I, I'm not someone that can meditate now, where they say I want to try and go to the gym and start working out and get in better shape and they go one time. And then they're like, well, that, you know, that didn't work out, or whatever, I didn't have a good time. So I'm not going to go back to the gym. But really setting these attainable goals

is a great way to evolve in any direction. So one, it helps you clearly define what it is that you want to achieve. And I think that that's really important because a lot of people have, as you said, they have a feeling that they want to live boldly. But I would say to that, like, well, what does that mean to you? Like, what does that look like? What does that look like in six months? What's that look like in a year? Like, how are you going to live boldly? What will that feel like? What will you need to achieve to then reach that definition of your own success?

And so setting goals is really valuable because it clarifies what you're doing in life. It clarifies the direction that you're going and the path that you're making. But I think it's really important to make those goals easily attainable because you need consistency. Because everything that you want to, you know, if you want,

anything that you want to achieve comes through compound interest. Everything is consistency plus time equals lasting change and results. And so, for example, if you're like, I want to learn how to meditate, you don't go. And this is what most people do is they go, they get really excited because again, the emotion influences the thinking. And so they go, all right, I'm going to go and be, I'm going to become the best meditator. I'm gonna meditate two hours a day and I'm gonna be levitating before Thursday, you know?

And it's like, so what happens is they go, you know, for maybe three days in a row, and then they basically spend all of the energy and don't get the results that they're looking for because they never really defined the results that they thought they were looking for in the first place. And then they go, ah, well, I guess that's, and I'll get distracted and do something else now.

That didn't work. That didn't give me the shortcut to whatever success I thought that I wanted. The real, the right way to do it would be like, I'm gonna start for five minutes a day for, you know, let's say two weeks. And let's look at like, what was it that I want to achieve with this?

I want to feel less anxiety. I want to have a clear mind, like be able to think more clearly. And I want to have, let's see, let's pick a good meditation benefits. I want to be able to sleep better. So you could say, let's put those three things down. Those are the goals. That's what I'm moving towards. And now I'll meditate for five minutes a day for two weeks and then you revisit that. You go first off, it's easy because it's only five minutes a day. So you achieve the goal, which is really important. And then you can look and see if the action that you're taking is actually getting you

to where you want because, you know, the life is such a moving target that we typically we can have, you know, have outcome that we're looking for and the week will go by. We'll completely forget what that outcome was and things will change and then we'll go, okay, what was I trying to do here? So defining that's really good. But being able to get there, you'll see that you've accomplished a thing and see if what you've done has actually met the see that you've accomplished a thing and see if what you've done has actually

met the outcome that you desired. And the really important thing about setting the 10 or goals is that like, we like feeling good. And so if you can do something simple for yourself, that is easy to do, but do it consistently, you'll keep doing it. It feels like self-trust is a big part of this, this sort of need and to build momentum and to start off small. I think it's so true. People want to have the best outcomes that they can. They're maybe even a little bit embarrassed or ashamed about the fact, God, I knew that I should have started meditating. It was in my New Year's resolutions in 2019 that I was gonna start meditating.

I said I was gonna do it during COVID and I didn't do it. And now I'm gonna start, and oh my God, I need to catch up. And how pitiful of me to have not only not started, but now to set such a low goal. I'm gonna set a big goal, but there's so many places that high achievers find to castigate themselves for falling short. I think purposefully programming in something which is so difficult that the chance of you not doing it is quite high. Is you basically just racking up another L before you've even stepped out onto the field

of play. Right. Right. Totally. Yeah. And a lot in that, like the setting, the crazy high goal that that's kind of like a different problem, you know, that's more of a motivation issue. That's like, um, and you can use that to your advantage, I would say. So like, you know, but these are, um, macro and micro. So the micro is setting these small goals, right, over a long period of time.

That's basically, you know, in my view, to get you into action, because a lot of people are so sedentary or don't ever try at all. And so what you wanna start doing is getting into a repetitive behavioral habit, moving towards something. And so that's where the self-belief and self-trust comes in,

because you're, okay, I can do a thing consistently, I can get there. And then you start to believe in yourself. So that way, whenever you go to do something else, you can go, Well, yeah, cool, I can, I can change my diet as well. Because now I did, I started going to the gym three times a week, that feels good. And that's possible. So I can change my diet. And then you do that. And you're like, Great, wait a second, I actually have some say in my life. Now I want to go do this thing. I can do that too. And you follow the same process. Um, but if we want to talk about like reaching wild and crazy heights in life, I think that, you know, that's the groundwork, the, these small, consistent goals that we can use to build up the strength, to build up the dedication, to build up the clarity and the self-trust, to then go for something really big. But we just follow the same process.

But that setting that giant goal is basically like, once you clearly define a big thing that you want in your life, some huge aspiration, you then, I always say, think even bigger. So it's like, dream as big as you can and then dream even bigger and then try and dream even bigger. Okay, now what's that look like? And really clearly define it for yourself and then go, okay, let's go towards that. Let's try and do that. And what's going to happen is of course that you're probably not going to actually reach

that, but by looking that high, it's going to change your mindset so that the way that you approach all the steps and trying to get there will be a lot more aggressive and ambitious and serious than you would have if you were looking at something that seemed really small. Why do you think it is that, uh, anxiety is the pervasive emotion. It's the most in vogue of all of the emotions, uh, for the modern world. It's super hip, man. It's, uh, I mean, it's a hot new girl in school.

Yeah, it is. Um, I think our nervous systems are just frazzled, man. We're fried. You know, it's like we have it. Not only do we have all of this technological inputs that we're always done with all the time. It's like, you know, we're basically like air traffic controllers. We're just dealing with these notifications, like a million of them a day.

Um, and we've got notifications. basically like air traffic controllers, we're just dealing with these notifications, like a million of them a day. And we've got notifications, we have the bits of information that our mind is like hopping in and out of constantly. So we're looking at our phone, we're looking at our email, we're looking at like the texture of the internet. It's basically our mind just like playing chess all day, like getting in this, getting out of that, getting in this, getting out of that. And so that's just bad, you know, that's a bad diet for our brains and our nervous

system. But also, I think that, you know, a philosophical part of it is that, like, humans aren't designed to have this level of, like, cultural and social and self awareness, like, in terms of, like, everything that's going on all the time. I think that it's sort of existentially overwhelming for people. You know, it's like if whenever people, if we look back at like someone is, they have a farm or something, of course there's problems. There's, there's things to think about, you know, life is never without suffering. But, um, they were sort of just aware of their little, you know, five mile radius. And that was all they really had to worry about. But now, you know, you wake up, you wake up and you look at the internet

for two minutes and you're like, okay, well in the Philippines there was an earthquake and in Round Rock there was a mass shooting yesterday, which unfortunately was real. If you, there's a tsunami coming, there's this political shit going on, there's this happening, oh cool, there's a new bacteria, a flesh-eating bacteria in Japan

that's claimed three lives already. You know, better cancel my trip to Japan. Yeah, it's just like so much shit. And then you look at like the tension of social change and differences always happening too. It's like, everyone's like, a lot of people struggle, I think, with like, well, like, who are we? What's happening in the world? You know, like, how do I fit into this? Because everything is changing. And then of course it's being manipulated by, you know, a lot of different forces out there in the world as well.

So I think it's just, it's really overwhelming for people on an existential level and it makes it difficult for them to understand sort of how they fit into the world. There's this weird blend between short-term predictability and long-term unpredictability. I think, you know, we know what the weather's going to be tomorrow, but we have no idea what the economy is going to be like in a year's time. And the reverse was true ancestrally. We knew that really over sort of years, stuff was largely going to stay the same.

We had no idea what was going to happen tomorrow. Maybe a tribe was going to come over. So you have this flipping. And I think the problem with that is we are given a sense of control, an illusion of control, because even if all hell broke loose tomorrow, I bet that Starbucks would still be open. I bet that you could still get, you know, some nightmare happens. Washington, DC gets hit with some like freak airplane accident or there's a attack of some kind. I bet that the Starbucks on South first street is still doing whatever

spice latte is available right now. So you go, okay, so I have short-term predictability, but long-term turmoil. And this, um, gives us illusion, why should be able to? I don't think we ever had that previously. I think that people were a lot more open to the vicissitudes of life coming and smashing them in the face. And a lot of it is expectations versus reality.

And if your expectation is that things are going to be, well, you know, why, if my Amazon Prime delivery can be done by to the hour, I know when the toilet paper is going to arrive here, why is it that I can't X or Y or Z? Yeah, totally. And not only, you're so right about Starbucks and not only would it be, you know, open and operating,

but they would have branded the disaster somehow, like the post-apocalyptic pumpkin latte. Yeah. Yeah. branded the disaster somehow, like the post-apocalyptic pumpkin latte. Yeah. Come get it. Um, just a three packs of cigarettes or one, you know, a one pound hunk of random meat, uh, whatever you want to barter with, come on in, you know? Yeah. It's an interesting one.

So you've spent a lot of time doing all manner of rejuvenation practices. What do you think that most people get wrong when it comes to designing a routine for physical and mental relaxation and rejuvenation? Yeah, I think that really getting too precious about it, man. I think that's the big thing that messes people up is like, because again, we're living in this ecosystem where there's like, okay, okay, what do I have to do? Okay, at six a.m. I have to wake

up, I got to view some light, and then I got to take a cold plunge, and then I have to activate my heat shark proteins. And then I have to do this and this and this. Like, there's so much of that shot there is I think it makes it really overwhelming for people. And basically, they get a bit of like, there's this sort of signal to noise thing that's lost, right? And so then they go to try and create their own routine and they're like, it becomes too complicated and too difficult and then they get frustrated and they give up, you know?

So I think really just keeping it basic and doing stuff also like looking at, it again, this goes back to kind of what I was talking about earlier that touch on the book is it's like, stop worrying so much about what all of these other people talking about earlier that I touched on in the book, is it's like, stop worrying so much about what all of these other people are telling you that you need to do to feel better. Like experiment, like figure out what works for you

and what feels good to you, and build your own routine out of that stuff. Because not only does that actually get it to where you're interested in it, but then there's a sense of ownership and meaning that is built into your routine. And that means that you're actually going to be more likely to continue doing it. Because if you look online, you're like, okay, well, this influencer says do these five things. This guy says these two things. This person says eat these things every day. I'll do all this stuff.

It's not really an intrinsic type of motivation. And I would say you should try some of that stuff and experiment with that, with what's offered, because there's so much incredible information out there. But if some of it doesn't work for you, it doesn't matter. Like just use the shit, like don't worry about it. Don't try and force it into your routine, because like, no, they say I have to view sunlight

at six a.m., I haven't been up at six a.m. in 10 years, I'm fine, you know? It's like, I'm thriving, You know, it's like I'm thriving It's all good Pick the shit that works for you and that speaks to you and actually that you feel results from and start calling that and building Your own routine. I'm a huge fan of like of model eclecticism like and that come I would say is spiritually health wise

mentally and in by that to define it as basically looking at all of the information that's out there and then playing with it, messing with it, seeing out feels for yourself, and then cherry picking the pieces from all the different schools of thought that happened to speak to you that feel good to you, that means something and then create your own school, your own path, your own version of the thing. Parasympathetic non-monogamy. Well, you know, it is the rest and digest system, man.

So, you know, that's true. Uh, new book is out now where, or what, what is something that you think people are going to gloss over in it. And from the people that have read it already that you wish that they didn't, is there something in that is a really big element where it's maybe not as flash and sexy upfront, but you go, you really need to focus on this. Yeah. Um, I think that one of my favorite things in there is I talk about this kind of magical thing that I realized and started noticing throughout my life.

I wonder if people will read that section of the book and go like, Oh, that's interesting, but they might not really embody it and try it. And I'll talk about it here. So really quickly is I talk about this thing called portals and life. And these are these moments that I've experienced and I've noticed that have every step of the way where there's been a big advancement for me, whether it be personally or professionally or whatever it is. It's this weird culmination of things comes together

and this opportunity starts to open and arise. And you have to be watching for it, and it will seem weird. And if you're not watching for it, you'll miss it. But every time that I've been watching for that, and I've noticed it, and I've walked through it, it has changed kind of my universe as it were. Not literally, but you know, well, I suppose literally, but symbolically. universe as it were, not literally, but you know, well, I suppose literally, but, but symbolically. And so what those are is, and I go, I share like kind of, I actually use Miles Davis, the jazz musician as an example for all of the portals that he walked through in his life. And I share some of mine, but really these big changes happen every time. And I look at other people and it's the same thing for them. And I love how we started

this conversation. I don't know if we were recording it up, but you talked about how much you love and as in Cohen's and things like that. I love those two because what are they? They are too often conflicting pieces of information intentionally. And it is by putting both of those things in your mind and reconciling them that in the process

of reconciling them, it makes you think of a third thought. And that third thought can only come through the computation of those two conflicting thoughts. And that's how wisdom often arises. That's why those work. That's why I love them. This happens in the same way. It's whenever there's one part of yourself that you understand to be valuable and you feel some sense of mastery in, then there's another aspect of yourself that is valuable and you have some natural mastery in. Something outside of you will arise that will ask those two parts of self to join together. And you'd never considered joining those two parts of your skill set or your personality.

But in the opportunity that arises when you join those two things together, it creates something new. It creates this feature within yourself that it exists before and it opens up this whole different world of possibility for you. Like it just happens again and again and again, and I think it's the same principle as the koan It's because four things to like cut and culture and to break through in life and in the world They have to be new the problem is is that people see the stuff that's out there They try and look at the edge of their eyes and they go all copy that and I'll try and kind of embody that and in That'll be the thing I'll get out there and I'll try and kind of embody that. And that'll be the thing. I'll get out there and I'll do whatever is like trending.

That doesn't work because you're already late. So the thing, the new quality that's being asked to be born out of these two elements of self, it is new because there's not a template for it, not even within you yet until these things connect. So like, as a few examples, I know this sounds rather ephemeral, few examples of this, like whenever I was

like starting my, whenever I used to be like I had my own audio engineering company for years, before that I thought I was gonna be a composer. And problem is I like really weird music. And that's not a good way to make money. Actually ended up being one, but at the time it's not a good way to make money actually ended up being one But at the time it wasn't a good way to make money And I was like, huh? Well, I don't know but then my friends that were also making music they started saying hey

Your music just sounds really good. Can you I don't know what you're doing, but can you do that to mine? But yeah, sure cool Then you know their friends would hear their thing and they'd go, man, that sounded really good. Do you think, Corey, if I paid him $100, would he do that for mine? And this is, you know, I was in my early 20s. And I have time, I was like,

a hundred bucks to do what I'd like doing? Like, hell yeah. And it kind of dawned on me. This was one of those early portos. It was like, oh, I want to do music professionally, but my skill, my skillset of being able to make like produce music really well. Those two things connect, I hadn't thought of connecting those two things and actually moving into a music career as a

producer, as opposed to an artist, like, holy shit. And when I realized that, and I the opportunities that were sort of arising around me, I started doing them. And then that turned into this big chunk of my life. This has happened with my podcast too, where it was like these type of conversations that we're having today. This is just what I sit around and talk to my friends about all this type of shit all the time. And then I was on a mutual friend of ours podcast back way back in the day, like over 10 years ago, his fans started hitting me up and being like, dude, you have to start a podcast.

And I was like, huh? I was like, well, I guess I'd talk about, this is all I talk about my friends anyway, and I have a studio full of audio equipment and I know how to produce stuff. Maybe I should put those two things together and then boom. And it just keeps happening again and again and again. So that's one of the things that,

it's a really interesting thing. I hope people will read and enjoy that. And I hope they'll start looking for those kind of cosmic winks in their own life. It's like a lifestyle alchemy in a way, taking individual elements and sort of spinning them up into something, which is really useful. Yeah, yes, absolutely. Corey Allen, ladies and gentlemen, Corey, I really appreciate you, man. Let's bring this one into land. Where should people go? They want to keep up to date with everything that's going on. Yeah. Thanks, absolutely. Corey Allen, ladies and gentlemen, Corey, I really appreciate you, man. Let's bring this one into land.

Where should people go? They wanna keep up to date with everything that's going on. Yeah, thanks, man. I really appreciate you having me. People can go over to heycoryallen is all my social handles. And if they go to bravenewyoubook.com, they can check out the book.

And also, of course, if you wanna go to my website, you wanna take a look around, see what's going on there. This guide to meditations is the release into Now Course that you made, If you want to go to my website, you want to take a look around, see what's going on there. This guy meditations is the release into now course that you mentioned. That's just Corey dash on.com. Oh yeah, Corey. I appreciate you, man. Thank you.

Thank you, man.