Moonshots with Peter Diamandis - 10x Your Business: Why Transitioning From Linear to Exponential is Crucial w/ Salim Ismail | EP#44

Episode Date: May 18, 2023

In this episode, Peter and Salim take a deep dive into Exponential Organizations, what they are, and why Exponential growth is critical for any business.  You will learn about: 00:54 | If You're Not Building Fast, You're Never Going To Make it 16:20 | Technology Simply Isn't Slowing Down, So Start Keeping Up.  26:26 | Chat GTP Will Be A Thing Of The Past Soon Enough Salim Ismail is a sought-after strategist and a renowned technology entrepreneur who built and sold his company to Google. He’s been featured in the most prominent publications such as NYT, Forbes, Fortune, and Bloomberg and has led lectures at the world’s greatest companies and about the future of Tech. Currently, he’s the founder and chairman of ExO Works and OpenExO. I'm launching a new book with Salim Ismail called Exponential Organizations 2.0. Our launch event is on June 6th. It's a 3-hour workshop covering practical strategies for achieving exponential growth in your business. Join the launch event here.  _____________ I only endorse products and services I personally use. To see what they are,  please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors:  For a limited time, House of Macadamias is offering listeners a free box of their best-seller, Chocolate Dipped Macadamia Nuts (worth $35) with your purchase at houseofmacadamias.com/peter + 20% your whole order with code Peter20. Levels: Real-time feedback on how diet impacts your health. levels.link/peter  _____________ I send weekly emails with the latest insights and trends on today’s and tomorrow’s exponential technologies. Stay ahead of the curve, and sign up now:  Tech Blog _____________ Connect With Peter: Twitter Instagram Youtube Moonshots and Mindsets Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Computation is becoming infinite and storage is becoming infinite and that's the simplest way of framing it. Over 100,000 years of human evolution, we've lived in a world of scarcity. And for the first time in the history of humanity, we're now building business models around abundance. We're gonna see the first three-person billion dollar company

emerging in the next year or so. You will be left behind very fast. In this world of exponentials, if you are not disrupting yourself, then someone else is. You've got to skate to where the puck is going to be. Everybody, welcome to Moonshots and Mindsets. I'm here with my dear friend Salim Ismail, the first CEO of Singularity University, the CEO of Exponential Organizations, and my co-author on a brand new book, Exponential Organizations 2.0. Salim, we are living in a different world. And I want to wake people up to the fact that if you're not building an exponential

organization, you are moving backwards. The only kind of organizations that are going to survive this decade are exponential organizations. So when I make that claim, everybody's saying, well, what the heck is an exponential organization? So let's start with that. How do you define an EXO? So let me touch on the idea that for 100, 200, 500 years, we've been building organizations in a very military top-down hierarchical command and control style. And that worked in a world of scarcity. You knew your market. You had to go out and figure out how to attack that market. You would devise strategies, et cetera. In the 21st century, that doesn't work anymore. Old organizations were designed for efficiency and for predictability. And today, you need to

be architected for adaptability, agility, flexibility, and most of all, speed. And so if you're not operating very fast today, you're never going to make it. And we're seeing over the last 10, 12 years, a completely new breed of organization that we've never seen before. And it was very hard, this conversation 10 years ago. But today, with the rise of ChatGPT and the explosion of Tesla and others, this is a much easier conversation. And now we just need to explain it a bit better. Yeah. I just saw a tweet the other day from a

friend of both of ours that said, we're going to see the first three person billion dollar company emerging in the next year or so. And I believe it, right? So, I mean, that is primarily an exponential organization. So when I think about an exponential org, in our book, we talk about what drives it and the 10 attributes of those organizations. And we'll be talking about those. The reality is we're getting to a point where the marginal cost of supply of your product or service is trending towards zero. And the marginal cost of distribution of your product or service is trending towards zero and acquiring that next customer. And, you know, that's an explosion on the planet. It used to be that your clients, the people you sold to were in your town, your village, you know, maybe within 100 kilometers. Now it's global at an

increasing rate. So let's get into it. Talk to me more about an EXO. Yeah, so you touched on a really important point. Let's look at the economic driver here. When you're running a business, you worry about cost of demand and cost of supply, right? And hopefully you're on the right side of the equation. What the internet did for the first time ever, it allowed us to drop the cost of demand exponentially. Online marketing, referral marketing. Every Silicon Valley company is trying to go for that viral loop, which drives your acquisition cost to near zero. Amazing.

What exponential organizations have figured out is how do you drop the cost of supply to near zero? So you look at Airbnb. The cost of them adding an incremental room to their inventory is almost zero. Whereas if you're Hyatt, you have to build a hotel. Same with Uber, adding a car to their fleet or Waze, etc. We have now a whole category of businesses where they've learned how to drop the marginal cost of supply. Now you can scale a business as fast as you can scale technology. We've learned how to scale technology but building the actual business is

painfully incremental and linear. Now we're seeing this new breed of business where they can scale the actual organization as fast as you can scale technology. We have never seen this before and over time every organization will operate in this way. Yeah I bet you there's a lot of folks out there that's saying listen I sell this widget there's no way in the world I can scale it globally or I can bring the cost down to zero. And I think people need to start to look a lot more imaginative. I know in my previous book, Bold, with Stephen Kotler, we wrote about the six D's of exponentials. And just to recall what that is, right, and tell some stories there, the six Ds are that any of these exponentials begin very deceptively slow.

We'll get back to that. And then they eventually become disruptive. And when they do, they dematerialize, they demonetize and they democratize products and services. services. The prototypical example that I give in the book, and I love it because it's just a great warning for folks, was the story of Kodak and the digital camera. So, you know, what most people don't realize is that Kodak actually invented the digital camera about 20 years before they were at their peak. In the late 70s, a guy named Steven Sasson had come up with the digital camera in Kodak's labs. And back then, it took 0.01 megapixel images. I can imagine that, right? In black and white.

And they recorded it on a tape drive. And I can imagine this, and I don't have a written record of this, but I can imagine Steven Sasson going into the boardroom of Kodak and going, here it is, the future of Kodak. It takes 0.01 megapixel images in black and white. And the board going, you're nuts. You know, that's a toy for kids. We're Kodak.

We make beautiful high resolution images. And besides, we're in the paper and chemicals business. Right. And so that's the challenge that, you know, these companies are locked into their current business models and exponentials are fundamentally at the core disrupting business models. Kodak says, if this digital camera thing becomes a thing, we're going to be out of the paper and chemicals business, our profit center, and we'll be decimated. A quick break from our episode.

On June the 6th, Salim and I are going to be running a free three-hour workshop on how to actually build and design an exponential organization. Would love to have you join us. If you join us on June the 6th, first of all, you'll get free access to the book, Exponential Organizations 2.0, access to an AI that we've built that allows you to query the book and helps you design your exponential organization. It's June the 6th. It's three hours. It's free. We've never done this before. Click on the link below, diamagnus.com backslash EXO and join us. All right, now back to the episode. I think it's really important here to touch on the linear to exponential stuff, right?

Because, you know, as you and Ray talk about a lot, if you take 30 steps linearly, you'll go 30 meters, you'll get to the back of the garden. We can all predict really well where we are a third or two thirds of the way in that progression. And all of our education and intuition and training around the world is around that paradigm, linear. When you go to a Moore's law and you go to an exponential where things are doubling, well, 30 doubling steps, 2, 4, 8, 16, gets you to a billion meters, right? Which is way past the bottom of your garden. It's 26 times around the world. And most importantly, it's really hard to gauge what is a third of the way or two thirds of the way in that progression. Our brains don't compute that way. We cognitively don't see it. All our brains are linear. So the challenge that you've highlighted, Ray's highlighted, and many of us kind of following

is the fact that we have this completely different heuristic on which the world is operating. And if you're not operating on that heuristic going forward, you will be left behind very fast. So to take that Kotick example and extrapolate it, you digitize. and extrapolate it, you digitize. In the early days of that digital camera, it was 0.01 megapixels, 0.02, 0.04, 0.08. Poor Steven Sasson is showing this and it's like a straight line on a curve. And they're going, I don't get it. What's the big deal here? Well, 30 doublings later, it's not 0.01, it's 10, 100 megapixel cameras and they're bankrupt, literally. And they go bankrupt.

And the realization was that digital camera, once it disrupted the industry, it dematerialized cameras. No one has a physical camera or very few have a physical camera. It dematerialized film. And then the marginal cost of a happy pic was zero. The cost of distribution was effectively zero. It demonetized it and then democratized it. And now we went from, I don't know, you know, millions of or tens of millions of happy pics developed to trillions of happy pics developed around the world. We look at it in three ways.

We say the first thing that happens is you demonetize it, right? You take the cost out, the marginal cost of taking an extra photograph goes to zero. Because of that, the domain explodes and now we're taking billions of times more photographs, the cost has gone. But the third thing that's super subtle but really important from a business perspective is you change the problem space. So what we talk about there is in the film photography world, you're trying to optimize around scarcity. It's a dollar per photograph. It takes a few days to get your prints back. And you get a whole bunch of business models around that scarcity.

I might offer really expensive cameras. I might publish books on composition. I might offer courses on how to do the best photograph. And you're teaching people to optimize for scarcity. It's brilliant. Now you go to people being able to take a thousand photographs at zero cost. The problem is not now, how do I carefully craft this image to compose the best image? The other problem we have is we have six copies of our photographs on eight different online

services and you can't find anything. And you've gone from a sourcing problem to a filtering problem. And most importantly, all the business models that cropped up around that scarcity like expensive cameras, et cetera, are gone. Right. And this is where you talk about the dematerialization of it and the complete demonetization of it. The cost of taking a photograph today is free. Yes, it is.

And it's interesting, right? In the same year that Kodak goes bankrupt, Instagram comes out of no place, right? And gets acquired by Facebook for a billion dollars with only 13 employees on their balance sheet, right? That was insane. It was like a break the way of thinking moment. And note that when Facebook acquired Instagram, most of the business world said, what the hell are you doing? How do you pay a billion dollars for this titch of a company with 13 people? Right. And this is I think this whole paradigm, I think, has emerged in Silicon Valley because people naturally understand exponential curves better than the rest of the world. And in my, you know, listen, my rant for entrepreneurs out there is if you're in a

company that's not actively digitizing, dematerializing, democratizing, and demonetizing your products and services, you will be dead within 10 years time. You've got to be doing this. You've got to be looking at, okay, how do we change the game? How do we digitize this product that we're creating? Or how do we dematerialize and democratize it? Because we need to move the marginal cost down to zero and we need to make it accessible to the world. And this is fundamental to what an exponential organization is in the biggest way. So we saw this, you know, you talk about cameras as a product, but then we saw entire industries going this way, like music. You had about seven or eight major music studios selling cassettes or CDs or DVDs, right? Then we digitized music.

We dematerialized the cassette decks and everything. And all the major studios essentially disappear. And now you have two platforms, iTunes and Spotify, selling you abundance on a subscription model. Yes, I love that. So this transition from a physical scarcity-bound environment to an abundant digital subscription model is going to happen in energy. It's going to happen in healthcare. It's going to happen in education. You heard it here first, folks. So what are you doing to go and make, to change your model from scarcity to abundance?

Because the majority of the human, over 100,000 years of human evolution, we've lived in a world of scarcity. We've lived in a world of, I have this, and I'm going to meter off a little bit to you and charge you a lot for it. I'm going to put a fence around something and say, these are mine. The old model was take an asset or a workforce, put a legal boundary around it and sell access to scarcity. And whether that was a hotel on a beach or a great design team or a chef in a restaurant. Or a consulting business. I'm going to hire the best consultants, right? And now when AI comes along, it's going to bust that model big time. Well, this is where I think your work around abundance is so critical, right? For 10,000 years, we've been building businesses around scarcity. If you didn't have scarcity, you didn't have a business pretty much.

And for the first time in the history of humanity, we're now building business models around abundance. And that's a completely different animal. abundance. And that's a completely different animal. And it's incredible, this transition and the need for new entrepreneurs to understand that and build businesses based on this new paradigm going forward. We are heading towards a zero marginal society in some ways, in other words, marginal cost for things. And what happens is it uplifts the world, right? We can head to a world in which we have access to all the food, water, energy, healthcare, education, and even time. And people go, well, how do you make time more abundant? Well, we're making time more abundant by, first of all, extending the human lifespan,

which is a whole different conversation, which we've had on this podcast. But it's also the fact that, you know, I remember, and you do as well well when i went to the library searching for a book and would take three hours of time and i would hope the book was there and if it happened to have the reference i wanted you know now from three hours it's reduced down to three seconds on a google search it's unbelievable i mean if you just look at a prototypical exo as we call it as wikipedia right it kind of took the world's knowledge and with the community to help moderate in the entirety of the world's knowledge now sits in wikipedia and the scale of it is unbelievable everybody let me take a quick break from our episode to talk about

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And then again, use the code Peter20 to get that 20% off. Trust me, you'll love them as much as I do. Now back to our episode. Let's talk about why this is happening now, because it is happening now. We've seen the roots of this really with, like you said, the rise of Amazon web servers, but also the internet and a whole slew of things. But underlying all of this, I would say, is Moore's Law and what Ray Kurzweil calls the law of accelerating returns. I'm going to show an image here one second. So this is the law of accelerating returns. People have heard of Moore's law, which is everything to do with Gordon Moore and Intel and the integrated circuit. So

Gordon Moore creates the integrated circuit. The first one, two transistors together. Back in the late 50s, by 1965, he publishes a paper that says, you know, we've noticed something that the number of transistors on a piece of silicon is doubling every 12 to 18 months and it's likely to continue. And it continued for 50 plus years. We're approaching 60 years right now. It's not slowing down. This is a curve of

122 years of Moore's law. What Ray says is Moore's law is only about the integrated circuit. Everything before then and after the integrated circuit is what he calls the law of accelerating returns, that we're using tools to create faster tools that build faster tools and so on and what you're seeing on this image is on the left hand axis it says calculations per second per constant dollar and it's like down at the bottom you're not going to read it but it says the analytic engine right and then it goes on to IBM tabulators and you know we've got the ENIAC and all of those along the way. And it's like 10 to the minus 7th calculations per second per dollar. I mean, like really slow computational power.

And then you see this. It's plotted on a log scale. And on a log scale, a straight line is an exponential. But it's curving upwards, which tells me that the speed at which it's increasing is itself increasing. It's not slowing down. And on the right-hand side, Steve Jurvetson added a few data points, and this is around Google's new computational capability and Tesla's new computational capability, that it's accelerating. And this goes out to 2025. So Moore's Law is not slowing down. One of the things that's important that you and I talk about is this idea of nested S-curves,

that every technology has this period of rapid growth, and then it runs out of steam like bacteria growing in a medium. But then some other technology takes over for it. We had mechanical computers and then relay computers and then vacuum tube computers and transistors and integrated circuits and then whatever comes next, three-dimensional chips. This, I think, was the real genius of Ray Kurzweil to identify this, right? Because every time you have some technology like vacuum tubes or transistors, you have that S-curve and it levels off and people go, well, okay, that's the end of that technology, et cetera. And he noticed that whenever you have an information-based environment,

when you reach the end of one S-curve, something else always takes over the curve. And now we have, we're reaching the end of the life cycle of integrated circuits and all the technology press are like, well, this is the end of Moore's law. We're done, et cetera. But we have a bunch of technologies like 3d chip design, optical design, quantum computing, et cetera. You remember our colleague, Peter, Ralph Merkel, right? I had a chat with Ralph and I was saying, what do you think about Moore's law?

He goes, I just published a paper on thermodynamically reversible computation using molecular bonds. So you can do computation without heat. He goes, I think we get 10 orders of magnitude just out of that. Right? And you're like, wow. So he's looking 20, 30 years down the line. But basically, computation is becoming infinite and storage is becoming infinite.

And that's the simplest way of framing it. I had people literally when I'm on stage talking to an audience, people go, when is this going to slow down? I was like, it's not going to slow down. There is no on-off switch. There is no velocity meter. You can't slow this stuff down. It's accelerating. And I think that's one of the important things about an exponential organization that people need to realize that you've got to skate to where the puck is going to be just to finish that that exponential discussion yeah please we've realized that once you start an exponential doubling pattern that's information based it doesn't stop doubling and it's the cognitively we have the horror the hardest time getting our heads

around that piece of it but ray was the first identified that this just keeps going and more drones are doubling every nine months in their capability, right? In neuroscience, the resolution in which we can image the human brain is doubling every year. We now have a dozen technologies that are operating on this curve and we keep adding to that basket

as we digitize more and more domains. So we're coming into this world of now multiple technologies all accelerating at the same time. And when I talk about this, you know, in the history of humanity, at any point, maybe one technology is accelerating, maybe another. We've never had a dozen all accelerate at the same time. Well, and I would bet, pal, it's a hundred all built on top of these other technologies,

right? You're building on top of computation. And, you know, in my last book, Future is Faster, I talked about convergence of these technologies. And we talk about that a lot in exponential organizations. And it used to be that you could be an expert in any one technology and build a differentiated company. But today, it's like the merger of two, three, or four of these that are making these EXOs, reinventing healthcare, reinventing the legal system, reinventing everything. Well, if you take, say, Uber, which is one of our prototypical EXOs, it's the doubling of location-based services and payment services and online and the whole bunch of things all coming together that suddenly make that magic. And then you'll add autonomy

on cars and electric on cars. And all of a sudden, the marginal cost drops by another 400%. And then all of a sudden, it know, it's a different game. And so when I'm talking to entrepreneurs out there saying like, how should I think about this? You know, where should I be going? The advice that I give is number one, you've got to be where the puck is going to be. You can't build a company based upon the technology that exists today, because by the time you've built it, it's going to be out of date. The second thing is find something that hasn't been digitized, dematerialized, demonetized, and do that. I'm doing that right now in the healthcare industry aggressively because I want to crush

the healthcare industry. Different topic of conversation. But it's those. What advice do you give to entrepreneurs? Well, I think the key is to build an organization and reinvent yourself every year or two. Right. In the past, you'd build an organization and set it on a path to the time last forever. And the world is moving too fast today. You really need to reinvent yourself every year or two. And as the metabolism increases, you have to do it every six months. Because the stuff that you were building, you know, the story of Illumina, I think, is really relevant here. They were building high-speed gene sequencing machines. Illumina, yes. Yeah. And they were the world's leader at this. And it turns out the shelf life for a high-speed gene, it was nine months. You only had nine months to

sell this really expensive machine. The product development it was nine months. You only had nine months to sell this really expensive machine. The product development cycle was 28 months. So they had to have four product development cycles running in parallel to hit the nine-month shelf life, sales shelf life. That's insane. That's just insane if you think about manufacturing cycles and the expertise and how do you, the discipline around managing those layers, this is a transition in business that we've never seen before where markets are appearing overnight and markets are disappearing overnight. And I think the rise of chat GPT just highlights, it brings it all into sharp relief. I love it. When we were talking about prompt engineering is the thing to do and then auto GPT comes out doing its own prompt

engineering and that's the thing in the past. Yeah. I mean, so I predict, I predict, it just shows you how I predicted the prompt engineering as an industry would last about five months. And it turned out to last about five weeks. So, so there you go. Yeah. In this, in this world of exponentials, if you are not disrupting yourself, then someone else's bottom line.

And so, so, you you know we first identified this ten years ago and you and I work closely on the original book of EXO and we identified this model and over the last ten years we now have unbelievable data to demonstrate that this is the only way these are the characteristics and if you're not following these characteristics and you don't have these attributes you won't grow 10x and if you're not doing it somebody else is right so it pretty much we're now clear that every company nonprofit government don't have these attributes, you won't grow 10x. And if you're not doing it, somebody else is, right? So it pretty much we're now clear that every company, nonprofit, government department,

impact project will basically over the next decade be organized this way. Otherwise, it won't be around. Hey, everybody, this is Peter, a quick break from the episode. I'm a firm believer that science and technology and how entrepreneurs can change the world is the only real news out there worth consuming. I don't watch the crisis news network I call CNN or Fox and hear every devastating piece of news on the planet. I spend my time training my neural net the way I see the world by looking at the incredible breakthroughs in science and technology, how entrepreneurs are solving the world's grand challenges, what the breakthroughs are in longevity, how exponential technologies are transforming our world. So twice a week, I put out a blog. One blog is looking at the future of longevity, age reversal, biotech, increasing your health span. The other blog looks at exponential technologies, AI, 3D printing, synthetic biology, AR, VR, blockchain. These technologies are transforming what you as an

entrepreneur can do. If this is the kind of news you want to learn about and shape your neural nets with, go to demandist.com backslash blog and learn more. Now back to the episode. You know, I think about the fact that there are, have been these moments in time that have been massive game changers. I call them interface moments. We talk about, you know, the 10 attributes that are internal, five internal, five external that you identified that are important and interfaces are one of them. I remember one of the things that really stuck out to me, I'd gotten to know Mark Andreessen after he started Andreessen Horowitz, when I went back and looked at Mosaic,

his first company that he created as a platform, Mosaic was an interface to the internet, right? Here is ARPANET that was available at MIT, at Stanford, at Harvard, in the defense department, and so forth, but it was arcane in terms of using it. And Mark creates Mosaic that allows all of a sudden anybody to use this incredible capacity. And in the first year, there were like 10 websites. The next year, there was like a million websites. And then there was like 100 million websites. And you see this rapid exponential growth. And that was an interface moment that made some complex technology available to everyone.

This is what I think you talk about when you say deceptive to disruptive, right? A technology goes from deceptive to disruptive when it becomes usable. And that was the mosaic moment. Steve Jobs made the smartphone usable and boom, it took off, right? Coinbase made it easy to buy Bitcoin and boom, that took off.

And ChatGPT made AI accessible and we saw zero to a million users in five days, zero to 100 million users in two months. And by the way, something is going to crush that record. I'm not sure what it's going to be, but it'll be a thing of the past soon enough. It'll be the next startup that you and I launch. I like that. I like that. So, you know, listen, this has been sort of an introductory conversation on EXOs. I think that it's important that it lays the groundwork for the rationale, right? Like everything is different. The way we frame it is that we have 20 Gutenberg moments hitting us at the same time. We had the printing press in the 15th century completely changed the

world. And now we call that a Gutenberg moment because of the utter transformation it caused in society. Well, chat GPT is a Gutenberg moment. Solar energy, blockchain, AI. I mean, we have this vast number of Gutenberg moments hitting us like a tidal wave. It's going to wash away all of these. I like your framing that you should touch on, which is the asteroid impact. Yeah. Can I do that? Because the nine-year-old space cadet in me can't help. So if you look back 65 million years ago, 66 million years ago, this massive 10-kilometer asteroid strikes the Earth. And because of that impact, it changes the environment so rapidly that the slow lumbering dinosaurs are unable to adapt and they die because of this

rapid change of the world. But the furry little mammals, our ancestors proudly as a furry mammal, survive and thrive. And so the asteroid striking the earth today are these exponential technologies. They're changing the business world so fast that if you're a slow lumbering dinosaur a large corporation unable to adapt uh then you're dead uh and you've got it's the entrepreneurs I mean open AI effectively with 130 people right does something that no you know that Microsoft and Google had not no let. Now, let's be fair about it. Google had been evolving with DeepMind a lot of tech, but they didn't release it. OpenAI did. The same example, which I love, is I got to know Chad Hurley in the early days, the founder of YouTube. And I also

knew Larry Page and Sergey. Larry was on my board at XPRIZE. And I remember asking the question, you had Google videos going as a company. A division of Google was Google videos. And why did you spend $1.65 billion to buy YouTube 18 months after Chad started on his credit credit cards and the fact the matter was that they were aggressive furry little mammals you know they didn't have an army of lawyers restricting what they would put on youtube or what how they did it it was easy and it was uh frictionless and they just grew so fast that google had to buy them i think this is going to be the only MO for big companies going forward is to spot the furry mammals and buy them. And Facebook kind of pioneered that with Instagram and WhatsApp and whatever.

That's going to start to happen more and more because big companies just can't do it. And that's a subject for a whole other discussion. It sure is. Anyway, listen, I hope folks listening enjoyed this sort of teaser, taster on exponential organizations. The new book EXO2 is coming out. One of the things I love that you've done with your team, credit to you, was make the book actually accessible through an AI.

Can you talk about that a second? Yeah, so Kent Langley and Michael Janssen and a couple of other folks on our team basically put together an AI chat GPT style interface. They took multiple models together and merged it in. So there's actually a full text chatbot AI interface to the book. So you can literally say, here's what my company does. How would I turn it into an exponential organization? And it literally queries the entire corpus of the book. So you can literally say, here's what my company does. How would I turn it into an exponential organization? And it literally queries the entire corpus of the book and comes

back to you and goes, here's what you need to do. So this is like my entire community of 24,000 consultants is like, hey, wait, what? What did you just do? But we have to do it. If we're not doing it, somebody else is going to do it. And love it. So I think that's going to be the paradigm of how people interface with this book, which is why we're so excited about the future. Yeah. Like I say, the future is only the faster you think. It's the most exciting time ever to be alive. Yeah.

All right, buddy. See you soon. Great discussion. Super fun. Take care.