Moonshots with Peter Diamandis - EP #41 Why You're Not Leading a Healthy Life w/ Dr. Doris Taylor & Dr. Mark Hyman (Q&A)

Episode Date: April 27, 2023

In this Q&A session during this year’s Abundance360 summit, Dr. Doris Taylor & Dr. Mark Hyman discuss the Ghost Heart, Do’s and Don’ts for a healthy lifestyle, and the profitability of a healthier society.  You will learn about: 02:56 | $300 Million & Only 5 Years. Can We Solve Heart Disease? 18:58 | Could A Healthier Society Still Turn A Profit For Healthcare Providers?  28:35 | How Do We Teach The Next Generation That Sugar Is Poison? Doris A. Taylor, Ph.D. is an innovator, scientist, and entrepreneur in regenerative medicine. She is the founder of multiple companies, including Organamet Bio, which aims to bioengineer personalized replacement hearts on demand.  Dr. Mark Hyman is a leader in functional medicine and nutrition. He has devoted his life to helping others discover optimal health and address the root causes of chronic diseases. Hyman is Founder of The UltraWellness Center, Senior Advisor for the Cleveland Clinic Center for Functional Medicine, a New York Times bestselling author, and Board President for Clinical Affairs for The Institute for Functional Medicine. > Learn about Organamet Bio. > Read Dr. Hyman’s new book.  _____________ I only endorse products and services I personally use. To see what they are,  please support this podcast by checking out our sponsor:  I use AG1 literally every day. Build a foundation for better health with Athletic Green’s AG1. Try it today.  Levels: Real-time feedback on how diet impacts your health. levels.link/peter  _____________ I send weekly emails with the latest insights and trends on today’s and tomorrow’s exponential technologies. Stay ahead of the curve, and sign up now:  Tech Blog _____________ Connect With Peter: Twitter Instagram Youtube Moonshots and Mindsets Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

That's the sound of unaged whiskey transforming into Jack Daniel's Tennessee whiskey in Lynchburg, Tennessee. Around 1860, Nearest Green taught Jack Daniel how to filter whiskey through charcoal for a smoother taste, one drop at a time. This is one of many sounds in Tennessee with a story to tell. To hear them in person, plan your trip at tnvacation.com. Tennessee sounds perfect. Will you rise with the sun to help change mental health care forever? Join the Sunrise Challenge to raise funds for CAMH, the Center for Addiction and Mental Health, to support life-saving progress in mental health care. From May 27th to 31st, people across Canada will rise together and show

those living with mental illness and addiction that they're not alone. Help CAMH build a future where no one is left behind. So, who will you rise for? Register today at sunrisechallenge.ca. That's sunrisechallenge.ca. Welcome to Moonshots and Mindsets. I recently had a conversation with on the Dr. Oz show and CBS this morning. He's a dear friend, an extraordinary thinker on health and our future in health. With him, I paired Dr. Doris Taylor. Dr. Taylor is really out of the pages of science fiction novels. She is a regenerative medicine researcher, previously at the Texas Heart Institute, now at the Advanced Regenerative Manufacturing Institute with Dean Kamen, and she is building pediatric hearts, small hearts for children who need them.

So you're going to join a conversation that comes from my private summit at Abundance 360 that took place in March of 2023. And we're going to talk about everything from understanding how to combat chronic disease with the food you eat and how you take care of yourself to what should we expect in the future? Do we have an extra set of spare organs? We truly are living during the most extraordinary time. And I think health is the new wealth. Enjoy this episode.

Let's dive in. Let's kick it off. Babs. Hey. Good morning. Thank you very much, both of you, from the opposite ends of the spectrum, right? The question, right? We need replacement parts, too, if we screw up.

So it's okay. Yeah. We need replacement parts, too, if we screw up. So it's okay. Yeah. Anyway, there's a point of clarification for Doris that we ghost heart. What's the ghost heart and what part does it play? So the ghost heart is basically the scaffold on which we put your stem cells to pig heart from which we've removed every cell

and as we remove every cell what's left is what we call the extracellular matrix okay and it's basically hundreds of proteins and sugars and molecules that tell every single cell how to grow up and how to behave okay and, and then it basically becomes human after that. It is. The human stem cells grow onto it and differentiate appropriately. Right, got it. Okay, thank you. It's a scaffolding. And if you come to the Platinum event, you'll see that happening in real life.

And we will be coming. Yeah, perhaps you'll be there in August. Yes, we're there. Absolutely. Yeah. Awesome. You wouldn't miss it. We've been to the last two.

Just keep getting more and love it. Thank you. Thank you. Annie. I'm so blown away by our panel today. And Doris, I was working in biotech around the time that you started on this amazing journey so thank you for this I was blown away back when I entered the industry I left thereafter for a number of reasons but when I look at you

creating a solution that can help save the number one killer in the world and that we can accelerate that solution with the right resources within five years at only $300 million. To me, that's a shocking one. And number two, with the resources, I'm part of a new fund out of the EU for biotech and innovation. And the EU has agreed to match

that fund. And my question here for most of us here in the US, where's the matching dollars? And where is our industry? And I also want to talk to you afterwards, by the way. Fantastic. You'll meet each other at the patron lunch, for sure. Perfect. Sit next to each other. Great. Thank you, Annie. Let's go to Jordi. Dr. Rose. Terrific. My question for Mark. A couple years ago, I went almost entirely carnivore. So I eat steak and eggs almost exclusively. I feel terrific, best I've ever felt. But my cholesterol levels are through the roof. And my doctor put me on a

statin, which I'm reluctantly taking. So that was question number one. Question number two, running or weightlifting, which is better? Well, first, I can't give you personal medical advice because I go to jail. I don't have a license in California. But in general, I think the extremes of diet are interesting, being a vegan or being a full carnivore. And I think they both have real limitations. I think for some people with a lot of inflammatory issues, a lot of gut issues, who are eating a lot of processed food, gluten, sugar, dairy, it's not necessarily the meat that's fixing it, it's what you're not eating. And I think you can include, and I think there's a whole conversation about anti-nutrients

and plant foods is, I think, a little bit misguided. There's a whole framework of what we call phytohormesis. Phytohormesis means when you eat stressed plants, wild plants, regeneratively raised plants, organic plants, better than obviously conventional plants, they have more of these powerful defense molecules in them. And we use those to regulate our biology from an evolutionary perspective. And so mTOR, for example, is positively affected by the polyphenols in coffee and inhibits it. Allurapine in olive oil, the curcumin in turmeric, the resveratrol in red grapes, these all actually are inhibitors of mTOR, just like rapamycin or

fasting or other inputs like exercise or hormesis therapies. So I think for a long term, I do worry about a carnivore diet, but I do know it can create remarkable changes in health. But I think it's because of the elimination, not because of just the meat. Although I think meat is not a problem. We do need to have good quality meat as part of our muscle building strategy and preservation as we age. Emma Marano was 117 years old when she died. Her doctor told her in her 90s because she was dwindling, eat 150 grams of meat a day and she did.

So I think that's important. Second, in terms of longevity, I think both cardio and resistance training are important, but I do think resistance training becomes more important as we get older because what happens is entropy and muscle loss if you don't do that. And muscle loss is conserved with both hormone and other hormones when you're younger. When you're older, it takes actual resistance training and adequate protein. So that's probably a far more important intervention. And I think 20, 30 minutes, three, four times a week is a powerful intervention for longevity to maintain muscle mass, to build muscle mass, to enhance mitochondrial function, and to also induce a lot of these longevity switches that we talked about.

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and five of these travel packs with your first purchase. So go to athleticgreens.com backslash moonshots. That's athleticgreens.com backslash moonshots. That's athleticgreens.com backslash moonshots. Check it out. You'll thank me. Without question, this is the best green drink product, the most nutritious, the most flavorful I've found. All right, let's go back to the episode. Fantastic. Let's go to Bob on mic four. Hey, Mark, this question is for you. I've followed basically what you've suggested for the last five years. I've turned around biological age 25 years in that process. Amazing.

In the same token, I've done the MRI every year, and over the last three years, I've watched my prostate almost double in size and form a tumor. In your book, you make a specific statement about if you have latent prostate cancer don't take nmn and i've started to hear more people say that and i jumped on nmn about four years ago and i wonder if you could expand on that i mean i think you know this is a really important question i think you know there's always what we call pleiotropic effects of various molecules. NAD plus is a molecule that the body makes as part of its normal function. When energy levels drop, NAD goes up and it's an activator of sirtuins, which then has all these downstream benefits. But, you know, there's some animal studies that seem to indicate that it may

increase cancer risk, but I think they're really limited. And I think, you know, there's some real challenges with those, those studies that I think don't, to me, convince me that NAD will cause cancer. So it may be other things that are going on there. It's hard to say, looking at your, you know, genetics, diet, lifestyle, other things. I don't know if you're having symptoms of prostate disease, or if you're having a PSA increasing, or if you had latent prostate cancer, I don't know. But I think those are things to explore. But I think I wouldn't put the weight on the NMN that you took. And you could ask David Sinclair about it. He's the expert. But he, I think, recently wrote a rebuttal to that whole cancer hypothesis. Thank you. Let's go to Anne on Zoom. Anne, what's your question? Where are you on the planet? Hello. The question is for dr taylor but i did want to say um dr hyman i live in a blue

zone in the nicoya peninsula in costa rica and i think well i hope you come back and maybe visit me um yeah i love costa rica what you said about community and love, I mean, I see that. It's so true. That's the biggest difference that I noticed. I lived in Chicago and then London and now in Costa Rica is that connection to family, community, and just brings this kind of general sense of joy that has really changed my life. And it's something that I really wish. I'm sorry. I'm so emotional it's something that I really wish that we had more of in the United States Dr. Taylor I just wanted to say

thank you so much hearing your work gave me so much hope because I spent the last year taking care of my mother flying back and forth because she was diagnosed with stage four and then end stage heart failure. And she was so afraid and ignoring the problem and then was really afraid of the only solution. She's 75, so a heart transplant wasn't a solution. And thank goodness a few years ago, the portable LVAD, the left ventricle assist device was approved. And so we spent in January days from dying. She said yes to having that surgery. And now we're dealing with the implications of her living because of a machine. And it's been so scary as a mother of two young

children, her heart failure, I don't remember the term, but they don't know why. And everything else, she's 75 and she's really healthy, low cholesterol, low blood pressure. And so for me, it's been really scary thinking, is this something that's going to happen to me? So I just wanted to say thank you.'ve given me so much hope and if I had three million dollars, I would give it to you Well, first of all, thank you and and I want to make the point following up on what Frank's mark said and what you just said You're building heart, too following up on what Mark said and what you just said. You're building heart too. We're all building heart.

And the piece that Mark talked about, love, it's really a piece of the future of all of this. So hope matters. Hope matters so much. And heart failure in women is often different than heart failure in men. And if you want to reach out afterwards, we can have a conversation about that,

because I'd love to talk more about it. And we have a biologic that is going to have an impact on heart failure with preserved ejection fraction which is the heart failure that most women get and actually is increasing as men age so thank you thank you and thank you Guillermo Wow thank you Peter yes this is for Dr. Mark Hyman. Doctor, it's so exciting to have you here. Your book, The Eat Fat, Get Thin, changed so many people's lives.

And so many professional healthcare professionals and nutrition practitioners' way of practicing. So thank you for that. Thank you. way of practicing. So thank you for that. But following one of the questions today, how are your thoughts on after doing a high fat diet and a low sugar diet, having your cholesterol levels raised, how do you see cholesterol being a marker of heart disease for the future or not? And second, if I can do another one, we all know sugar is the number one cause of disease in the world but what are your thoughts on uh blue light or artificial light cause causing the same um insulin resistance that sugar can cause in our body oh that's a great question so i mean i think

in terms of um you know the sugar issue issue and light, I think, you know, photobiomodulation is a real thing. I think blue light at night definitely affects our metabolism in an adverse way, but I don't think it compares to sugar. Honestly, I think it's such a much bigger effect. And your first question, what was that again? The cholesterol being a marker of disease. Oh, cholesterol.

Yeah, cholesterol. Okay. So cholesterol is a real controversial subject because is it the cause or is it a biomarker of something else going on? And I think we know that heart disease is an inflammatory state and that cholesterol elevations in the absence of inflammation are not a huge risk. Now, there is huge genetic variability in the population when it comes to lipid metabolism in terms of lipid absorption in the gut, in terms of lipid synthesis

in the liver, and in terms of the patterns of cholesterol that people form. So it's really got to be an individualized approach. I'm not opposed to pharmacotherapy for lipid disorders, but most of the problems with our lipids come from eating sugar and starch, not necessarily fat, because it increases triglycerides and it lowers HDL. It increases the particle number, decreases the particle size. All these are the most dangerous type of cholesterol pattern. So your cholesterol could be 150, but if your HDL is 30 and your triglycerides 100, you're in terrible shape. Whereas if your cholesterol is 300 and your HDL is 80 and your triglycerides are 70, I'm not so worried, particularly if you have low inflammation. So it's really about a personalized approach and the right diagnostics. I think Fountain Life is such an important company because it's helping people map out the right diagnostics, both

laboratory, conventional tests, but things that your doctor may not be checking like lipid fractionation, which most cardiologists and doctors don't do. And it's pretty much the only way to look at your lipids. In terms of saturated fat and high fat diets and lipids, again, there's real heterogeneity. I've had people go on a keto diet with butter and coconut oil, which is all saturated fat and their lipids drop like a stone, everything improves. Other people are, you know, elite athletes will say, I want to try keto and their cholesterol goes to hell. So I think it's about understanding that there's genetic differences. For me, for example, I'm a, we'll call lean mass hyper responder. There's a phenomenon that in certain people, when they eat a lot of saturated fat,

it actually raises the, you know, it creates an adverse cholesterol profile. And we don't exactly know why there's some genetics involved, but you got to creates an adverse cholesterol profile. And we don't exactly know why there's some genetics involved, but you got to really personalize the approach. This episode is brought to you by Levels. One of the most important things that I do to try and maintain my peak vitality and longevity is to monitor my blood glucose. More importantly, the foods that I eat and how they peak the glucose levels in my blood. Now, glucose is the fuel that powers your brain. It's really important. High, prolonged levels of glucose,

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levels.link slash Peter. We give you two additional months of membership. And it's something that I think everyone should be doing. Eventually, this stuff is going to be in your body, on your body, part of our future of medicine today. It's a product that I think I'm going to be using for the years ahead and hope you'll consider as well. All right, Kimberly. Hi. So my question, Dr. Mark Hyman, your book, The Food Fix, was phenomenal and an absolute game changer. And Dr. Taylor, hearing the statistic that $32,000 a month for these drugs is the current status quo. And so there's been a lot of money and profit made from people being sick and overweight. So how are you bridging the gap?

What is the marketing strategy, in essence, to prove that having a fit, healthy society can actually be more profitable for people who have profited from sick care? Huh. I think the first thing we have to do is tell the truth about the status quo. And we don't currently talk about organ transplant

not being a panacea. Everyone thinks, got a new organ, got a new lease on life, going to go forward, life is great. That's not the reality. And I think telling the truth about costs and that you have to have access is a first step because now there's a whole room of people who know that who didn't before this conversation and that may impact it.

The other thing is it's just, it's no different than smoking. If there's profit to be made, it's going to be marketed, it's going to be promoted and we live in an industry where the addiction is sugar and the poison is sugar. And the question is, will the government step in? We also live where people have freedom. The question is, do they know that it's not healthy? Most everybody does. They choose to ignore it. It's a quick fix. Mark? It's also less expensive. it's also less expensive it's also less expensive yes so uh i think yeah it's complicated i wrote a whole book on this i don't know summarize in five minutes but i think i think the essential idea here is that you know we're not facing the biggest national emergency we have which is from our food system that's driving the majority of age-related diseases,

the majority of costs, probably over 80% of our $4.1 trillion in healthcare costs, not to mention the additional indirect costs from disability, dysfunction because of the food we're eating. It's the biggest national emergency. 11 million people die every year globally from poor food. I think that's an underestimate. And we're just not addressing it. I actually went on Tucker Carlson this week talking about this issue, because I think we need to face this as we face COVID or any other national emergency and deal with it head on. And it requires a huge amount of change in industry innovation, in regulatory and legislative actions, in consumer education, behavior change.

And it's a work that's going to take a while. And so that's why I started a nonprofit to change policy in Washington, to drive the right changes around food as medicine in our system, to really de-incentivize the wrong things and incentivize the right things. Right now, it's just, it's kind of a mess. So I think I'm hopeful for the future, but we're way too slow. We tend to deal with problems way after they happen rather than before. And we're seeing this juggernaut coming

that I don't think policymakers have really grappled with clearly. Hey everybody, this is Peter. A quick break from the episode. I'm a firm believer that science and technology and how entrepreneurs can change the world is the only real news out there worth consuming. I don't watch the crisis news network I call CNN or Fox and hear every devastating piece of news on the planet. I spend my time training my neural

net the way I see the world by looking at the incredible breakthroughs in science and technology, how entrepreneurs are solving the world's grand challenges, what the incredible breakthroughs in science and technology, how entrepreneurs are solving the world's grand challenges, what the breakthroughs are in longevity, how exponential technologies are transforming our world. So twice a week, I put out a blog. One blog is looking at the future of longevity, age reversal, biotech, increasing your health span. The other blog looks at exponential technologies, AI, 3D printing, synthetic biology, AR, VR, blockchain. These technologies are transforming what you as an entrepreneur can do. If this is the kind of news you want to learn about and shape your neural nets with, go to dmandus.com backslash blog and learn more.

Now back to the episode. I want to go to two questions on Zoom. We go to Allison first and then Orlando. Then we'll go to you, Michael. Allison. Great. First of all, thank you so much. This is so inspiring. And I can't help thinking what would Mozart have done with an extra 30 years.

Yes, I love that. Deep, deep thanks to both of you. Mark, I'd love to hear from you your quick take on uh the microbiome and supplements you hear very different views and then doris i would love to hear from you caring about hearts which of all of mark's advice you actually take it's fine question all Well, the microbiome is so important. And in fact, it was not included in the original Hallmarks of Aging. I added it in my book because I thought it was so important.

And the era of the microbiome is just emerging. There's an enormous amount of research that needs to be done to categorize, classify, understand what is going on in there. It's just like a black box. And we've learned so much in the last 10 years, 20 years on this, it's just like a black box and and we've learned so much in the last 10 years 20 years on this but we still have a lot more to learn what's really exciting is that we know that as we age our microbiome degrades our microbial diversity degrades and we also know how to change that through um various strategies by limiting

things that are gut busting sugar starchy processed food diets food additives and environmental chemicals all damage the gut the glyphosate is one of the worst ones from our food supply it's on 70 of crops it's the weed killer that we use uh also the use of antibiotics anti-inflammatory drugs acid blocking drugs i think it's acid blocking drugs are the third leading cause of of uh of drug use in this country or third leading category, I mean. And so we need to stop all the gut busting stuff. And then we need to add prebiotics, probiotics, and polyphenols, which are the plant compounds that help fertilize the gut bugs. And then there's precision probiotic therapy. So not all probiotics are the same.

They have different uses for different things. So it's really important to try to restore our guts. And I think one of the most important, exciting discoveries is the importance of bifidobacterium infantis in children. And a lot of us have taken antibiotics. Most women have. And their population of this particular keystone bacteria is either absent or very low. So when babies are born, they don't get it.

When they're born through C-section, they for sure don't get it. When their antibiotics are used in pregnancy or in early life, it kills it all. So giving babies bifidobacterium infantis can actually colonize the gut with a really important keystone species that then regulates all the inflammatory diseases. Obviously, all the allergy, autoimmune, asthma, but also like the late stage autoimmune diseases like heart disease, cancer and diabetes. So we really kind of need to learn how to restore our gut microbiome. And I have a whole section of my book about how to do that. But it's really important to track it, to measure it, to optimize it and to constantly iterate on how to do that.

We're going to go to Michael and then to Orlando on Zoom. But I hope that helped answer your question. Michael, please. So the topic of regrowing the heart is very close to me because my mom's heart disease for many years, so I've always fantasized whether we can grow 3D print, construct something like that. So I wanted to ask, what are kind of the steps remaining in the process? Because I know there might be challenges around hemodynamics, the details of how cells are differentiated to be exactly like a human heart. I imagine there's animal trials or not.

What is the rough roadmap you have? We talked about doing an XPRIZE in that area at one point. We did, yeah. Michael's one of the founders of Oculus. Yes. map you have always talked about we talked about doing an x prize in that area at one point we did michael's one of the founders of oculus yes so the our steps in the process obtain blood from an individual bank their cells our rate limiting step for 10 years was how to grow billions of heart cells because by the way heart cells don't divide right so what we had to do was figure out and and the advent of human ips cells changed this it let us begin to think about personalized cells so we grow we grow 350 billion of your cells

we differentiate those to cardiac mesoderm, the cells that during development are going to give rise to the heart. Then we actually treat about 70% of those and make them become the different heart muscle cells, but they're very immature. They're not even as mature as fetal heart cells. And then we take the other 30%. We put it all in our heart after we've built the vasculature, which we do first. And then we train it. So we have to train it electrically, and we have to train it against a blood pressure, and we have to dial that up over time.

And every heart's a little bit different because everybody's cells are a little bit different that's amazing um and and please get a chance to connect here uh while you're here together let's hear it for the doors i love the engineering mind here orlando we have just a minute and a half left orlando a short question yes so yes hello i'm a people so i think one of our biggest concerns as parents is how do we teach this to our children? How do we make it simple in a place where we have to shoot out all over and process foods? So what do you think about it? I think we need to really face the fact that, you know, a foreign country, we're doing what we're doing to our children,

we go to war to protect them. And somehow, the narrative in this society right now from the American Academy of Pediatrics is treat kids aggressively with obesity with bariatric surgery and Ozempic, which is just mind blowing to me, as opposed to why don't we fix the problem, which is our food system. So it requires regulatory changes around food labeling, around marketing junk food to kids, around school lunches, dietary guidelines. All of this really needs to change. And that's what we're working on in Washington. But it's not an easy fix.

And there are many forces that are not interested in having this change. And unfortunately, Big Food, and I wrote about this in Food Fix, is very focused on manipulating public opinion, manipulating policy, and influencing professional organizations like the American Academy of Pediatrics or Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, the ADA, AHA, American Cancer Society, all the things that we think of as trustworthy organizations are all co-opted and manipulated. And then they fund billions of dollars of research, 12 times what the NIH funds on, quote, nutrition studies. So the data is flooded with a lot of misinformation.

So we have to, as a society, stand up for our children. And I think we have to sort of make a stand that this is really important and address the fact that 40% of our kids are overweight, almost 20 are obese. One in four teenage boys has prediabetes or type 2 diabetes, something I never saw in medical school. I think Peter and I went to medical school, it just didn't exist. And we have increasing metabolic disease in kids. Kids are now facing liver transplants. And as teenagers from fatty liver from soda bariatric surgery at 15 years old just doesn't make sense so i think i think we have to kind of face this and it requires uh you know kind of an uprising i think most people understand that this is a a fixable problem you know we can't end climate change overnight we can't

you know end war but this is one of those problems that we can solve guys i apologize that we're out of time but but please give it up for Doris Taylor and Mark Hyman.