Morbid - Episode 116: The Amazing Survival Tale of Michelle Knight, Amanda Berry and Gina DeJesus Part 2

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Starting point is 00:00:52 That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wundery pod or text wundery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. You can host the best backyard barbecue. When you find a professional on Angie to make your backyard the best around. Connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Inside to outside, repairs to renovations. Get started on the Angie app or visit Angie.com today. You can do this when you Angie that. Hey weirdos, I'm Ash and I'm Elena and

Starting point is 00:01:34 this is finally morbid again. Finally guys! I feel some type of way that we're recording. It's very weird. It's been like two full weeks almost. It feels like it's been two years. No, it feels like it's been a fucking eternity. It really does. We're very happy to be back. I miss you guys.

Starting point is 00:02:07 I know. And let me be the first to say, you guys have been absolutely fucking amazing. If you have not been on social media, and you've been wondering where the hell we've been for two weeks. Like, did morbid die. Like, where did they go?

Starting point is 00:02:23 Did they just stop? One of my twins got very, very sick with invasive strep disease pneumonia in RSV all at the same time. And a fucking collapsed lung. And a collapsed lung, yeah, from the pneumonia actually in the invasive strep. So it was really bad and happened very suddenly, right when we got home from the New York show. Not really that night. Went from a very big high to a very big low.

Starting point is 00:02:52 The lowest of lows, one way. Oh, it's nice. We are not even out of the woods yet, and it's been two full weeks. So it's been really rough time. And she was in ICU for over a week. Oh, no, no. She's still in the hospital but we're hoping

Starting point is 00:03:06 that will change. You know, in the next day or two and things are looking up now so she's going to be okay. We can finally say that. Yes. Because for a while it was like really hairy there guys. It was like really bad for a while. It was really scary. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:03:23 And John and I have been living in the hospital basically just trying to like switch back and forth between like going home for a night. Let me just quickly say that ash is a literal angel on earth. Uh, no. And you should all have an ash in your life because everyone on planet earth needs an ash in their life. So. Because between her and my mother-in-law, we would not have been able to function without

Starting point is 00:03:50 them. Like Ash has literally taken over my house for me. Yeah, I did. It's been so fun. Well, she's taken care of the baby. She's doing night feedings for us. Oh, yeah. Amazing.

Starting point is 00:04:01 Well, I just, I want five kids anyway. And he's like, what the fuck? And he's like, excuse me. I know, she's like, I wouldn't have dated you if I known that, no, not actually. But I want to have like many, many children. And I love kids. And like, I love steady mom.

Starting point is 00:04:16 And like, you have been steady mom. I've been driving a mom car, not to be like a bitch, but you have a mom car. I would drive in a mom car. I've been bringing kids to school. I've been fucking making dinner and shit. She has done it all. I've been living this whole,

Starting point is 00:04:32 I mean, I've been horribly upset also. Yeah. But you've been like holding it down here. Yeah. Mom has got to hold it down, honey. We are so, and also it's like anybody out there who has kids knows that if seeing your kids sick at all is like the worst thing ever,

Starting point is 00:04:48 but this was by far the worst experience of my entire life. Invasive strep has a mortality rate. I don't wish this experience on my worst enemies, even like all the assholes who say shitty things to us. I don't even wish this on them. I don't wish it on anyone from Naperville. No, no, Naperville, I do not wish this on you at all. No. It's terrible. And I want to thank, obviously, I want to, I, I could never thank Ash enough for what she's done for me. It's unbelievable.

Starting point is 00:05:16 I just did exactly what you would do for me. I love you. I have a whole new appreciation for you. How does this woman, this woman across from me in this laundry room? I don't care how long the syndrome is. How do you, how do you do all of the mom things like wake up, homey the other day like I love your kid but she woke up every two hours. Yeah. And I was like sweetie you're cute and all but damn. How does mama produce the podcast, edit the podcast,

Starting point is 00:05:43 research all the things for the podcast, and feed your ass every two hours? I just figure I'll sleep, you know, when I'm dead. And then like the older one, she's like coughing in the middle of the night, and like yelling at me, because she doesn't like to be comforted. Oh yeah, because that was the other thing. The other two kids got sick too. Yeah, everybody's sick.

Starting point is 00:06:02 No, it's bad. We got sick. We got sick. We all got sick too But and then I realized that as a mom like not that I was your their mom, but you can't be sick No, you can't like I was coffin, but I was like it doesn't matter Yeah, you're like I don't feel good, but I can't not feel good I couldn't even take my favorite drug of choice is which is night well. No, that's something you give up as a mom or a dad and the other day all I wanted and I'm just a dad. And the other day, all I wanted,

Starting point is 00:06:26 and I'm just gonna keep it straight up 100 with you, all I wanted was a glass of wine. And I was like, what if something happened in the middle of the night? And I get it now. You honestly, this has taught us, shit can happen in the blink of a fucking eye. And suddenly she was sick out of nowhere, really sick.

Starting point is 00:06:43 So it's like, we always need to be aware. And it is. You see how, you know, like nightquil, that's something you give up. I still love nightquil when I had a cold because you would be like, goodbye. And then I just think of wine. I love edibles.

Starting point is 00:06:57 Like I still have about, I would say five or six years of like not having kids just to like indulge in myself. And also, I just want to say you guys listening you right there. Hey you. Hey. Hey you in your car. You on the treadmill. I was going to say on the treadmill washing some dishes. You walk in your dogs. You at work. You just doing whatever you want to do. You poop in. You poopin. You have been amazing. Incredible.

Starting point is 00:07:26 I want to thank each and every person for sending like good vibes. I'm not a religious person, but I really appreciated the people that were like, we're sending prayers. You know what, that's awesome. That's a good vibe. I will take all the vibes, all the hugs, all the girls,

Starting point is 00:07:40 all the thoughts. Somebody messaged me and said that she was doing what she stuff for us. And I was like, that's a good deal. I was doing what she stuff for us And I was like Sweetie child. Yeah, I'm doing what she stuff. Thank you My ass was outside walking your dog talking to the moon your neighbors probably think I'm not okay I was in the hospital for a bit early because I was ready to do anything at that point I was like I will like I will do so I will sacrifice myself

Starting point is 00:08:00 I don't even know yeah, so I was like looking up at the full moon, like begging the moon to help me. It was, you do, you get weird when you get sick. You keep it weird. You keep it real weird. But seriously, you guys, thank you so much. You've been so patient. Everybody's been amazed. Our moderators have been amazing on the Facebook page. Once we updated everybody, everybody was awesome because I know everybody's been waiting for part two of Ariel Castro and I appreciate everybody being so so patient about it and there was only like one or two people that were like nasty and once you answered with hey my kids in the hospital they felt real stupid real quick so that was a nice silver lining too to

Starting point is 00:08:42 make some trolls feel like idiots so that was good. You're welcome. Everyone else though, like the other 99.99% of everybody was so amazing, so understanding and we love you and we appreciate you so much. This so like behind us. Yeah, it was like our community. Yeah, and it like made me feel like, okay, she's got all these like good thoughts coming from like all these places. Yeah, I know what she's doing great now. So everything's gonna, everything's on the up and up. We're getting back into the grind here. Hopefully you're all ready to listen to some really fucked up shit in this episode. We have a little housekeeping first. We do.

Starting point is 00:09:24 We've never said that before. I got that because I was listening to Podsave America and they said that. Yeah, Podsave America. I'm trying to get political, but we won't talk about that here. How the fuck do you open your phone without a home button? I have one of those fancy space phones. I don't understand.

Starting point is 00:09:40 Oh, that's another mom thing. I fucking dropped my phone in your bathtub tonight. Yeah, I've done that. I've done that. I was pissed. It happens. It's fine though. Um, so we really quickly just want to remind you of all the live shows that we have coming up. Uh, pretty soon we're gonna be in Philadelphia. Hey, Philadelphia. I'm gonna eat a cheese stew. We're coming for you. Punchline comedy club, baby April 14th. Sold out. April 15th sold out DC improv. We're coming all up in you Washington DC. That's not a gross May 6th. We're gonna be in Huntsville, Alabama.

Starting point is 00:10:10 We sure are. I think the week before that we're gonna be at Grimecon. Yeah, we definitely are. I mean, I don't think we are. It's gonna be awesome. I was saying like I think it's a week before that. It is. So yeah, Huntsville, Alabama, the next fucking night, we're gonna be in Nashville twice. Yes. Two times full night. Two times all up in you, Nashville. May 7th early, May 7th late, and baby. If you don't already know Chicago, June 12th, sold out. What up Chicago? So those are our live shows. We're working on some more. Yeah, everybody. Make sure you stay tuned because there's going to be some fun announcements coming up in the next week or so And we're really excited about it. Well without further ado. Why don't you go ahead and fuck up my world some more?

Starting point is 00:10:52 I am ready to fuck up everybody's world right now. Hey, she's been waiting to fuck up worlds for like two weeks. I really have this is this is very cathartic guys, so I'm ready Um, and this this has like a happy ending, so it's a good. We're definitely off, I don't recall. So where we left off, because I know it's been like 400 years, guys. And again, we, it was not our intention to start a two-parter right before this happened, obviously. It was just really bad timing, so we're, you know, glad you've all been hanging on the edge of your seats for this. Yeah. So we left off and let's see. He had kidnapped Amanda Barry. He had brought her into the home. He told Michelle that he was planning to bring two other women into the home. And I told her that that's when he would let her go. That's not true. That was a lie. But Michelle

Starting point is 00:11:41 also became pregnant by this asshole. Hate that. And he made her lose the baby by punching her in the stomach with a barbell. Oh, that's where we were. After he starved her for a week. Oh my God, he starved her while she was pregnant. Oh, yeah. And then he punched her in the stomach with a barbell

Starting point is 00:11:57 while she was pregnant. I know, I love that. I was like, you were like, oh my God, he didn't give her food. I'm like, yes, he also put a barbell into her stomach. But every time you say that, I feel like I've been punched in the stomach. It's awful. Michelle, I mean, they, let me be clear,

Starting point is 00:12:11 they all were tortured abused heinously in this house. But Michelle seemed to be his favorite punching bag, which is no good. Yeah, and she was the one who like suffered. And all in all all she suffered five Terminated pregnancies in that house. Wow. Terminated by him right obviously And five yeah, and she when she came out of it She was no longer allowed to allowed she was no longer able to conceive a child. Oh my god

Starting point is 00:12:42 He like shut down her like because he, I mean, she fucked her up inside. Yeah, I shut the all three of them came out with physical injuries that we'll never be able to know about. But that was one of hers. So, and during the three, during the, some of the like three, I think it's like

Starting point is 00:13:06 three years that these women were locked up in his home, he was actually actively dating a woman named Lillian. Poor Lillian. Which I had no idea. Um, sometimes she would, so she would come over sometimes, but she was never allowed to go upstairs and they were all held upstairs. Right. And sometimes she would hear Michelle's television upstairs and she would be like, what's that? Like who's up there? And he would make an excuse. And she just kind of like went with it. It was like, I don't know. Imagine if you're dating somebody and they didn't allow you upstairs in their home. That would be my first. I mean, that's

Starting point is 00:13:35 a red flag, guys. That's weird. I'm no relationship expert, but I'm just going to say that that's a red flag. You should probably get the hell out of there. Leaf. And if it looks like Ariel Castro, you should probably get the hell out of there too because that dude is. Yucca, look in ugly. So they broke up in October 2003, but yeah, it's just,

Starting point is 00:13:57 and he, this shows too, and it gets more and more apparent throughout this story. How much he like psychologically abused these women as well. Like, they for sure were like Stockholm syndrome at some point. And then it was also like, they just, he had taken every shred of them away from themselves, every piece of hope away from them. So there were even times where he would like,

Starting point is 00:14:22 allow them to kind of walk around a little bit in the house. And they would be too scared to even try anything. Yeah. Because it just wasn't even they were like, no, it's not worth it. Yeah, like I want to think it to happen. So November 15th, 2000, 2000, 2003, America's most wanted covered the disappearance of Amanda Barry. Because Amanda had, her disappearance had been covered heavily. Her mother was on that case from the, like she was, because she was yellow. All over the news, she was, and she just had a different life than Michelle did, unfortunately, because if you guys had listened to, if you've listened to part one, we really covered Michelle's upbringing. How that poor woman.

Starting point is 00:15:07 She like barely had anybody. She has been traumatized her entire life. I'm so, it's nice to hear and we'll update you and at the end of this podcast, how they're doing now and it's nice to hear she is thriving right now. But holy shit, she had a time to get there. Her life is like, oh my God. Yeah, and that was one of the things,

Starting point is 00:15:26 like Amanda Barry's mom was like all over the news. She was on like TV shows, talk shows, just hosting vigils and like doing everything she can. And we'll find out that the third woman who's a ducked Gina DeJesus, her parents are also everywhere all over the news, everything. And he would make sure to show them their families looking for them. But he would also show Michelle see no one's looking for you.

Starting point is 00:15:52 No one gives a shit so bad. And she said she would try to act like fuck you dude. And then she was like, but inside I'd be like no one's looking for me. Of course. And she was like, and I read in her book, and I'll link her book, all of their books in the page notes for me. Of course. And she was like, and I read in her book, and I'll link her book, all of their books in the page notes for this. But she says at one point, she was like, I just like was thinking about how no one is looking for me. No one gives a shit. And it was the loneliest feeling. And then I started thinking of what that would feel

Starting point is 00:16:19 like to be in this situation, like this horrific, horrific situation, and then sit there and go, and no one cares. There's no one outside of these walls that even gives it. That's like depression on like another level. Like that is so dark. Yeah. I can't even bring my mind to go there. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:16:36 And she had to go there for like 11 years. I can't imagine that. I can't even, I can't. So January 26, 2004, police arrived at the home of Ariel Castro. Why? Why did they arrive there? They were investigating him on charges of child objection and child endangerment.

Starting point is 00:16:56 From? I know you're like, what the fuck? Yeah. Well, if you remember, he's a school bus driver, an elementary school bus driver. We're just terrifying. Well, that same morning, he had picked two kids up to drop them off at like an after-school program.

Starting point is 00:17:09 He decided he dropped one of them off, and then he kept the other one, which was, I believe, a four-year-olds, a four or five-year-olds, a very young kid. He kept that one in the bus, drove to a Wendy's and was like, I'm gonna go eat lunch in this Wendy's, forced this child to hide in the back of the bus while he went into the Wendy's to eat, told this kid lay down bitch. Oh my God. Yeah. And then he went inside, ate some food, came back, drove the bus around aimlessly for a while with this child in it. Probably like crying and screaming to you at work. And then dropped the kid back off at school two hours late.

Starting point is 00:17:52 And he did not forget anything was going to come of that. That's why I'll fuck to the students. So these two police officers, so obviously this all came to light, the parents were like, what the fuck? So these two police officers show up at his door and ask him about this shit. And parents were like, what the fuck? So these two police officers show up at his door and ask him about this shit. And when he didn't answer the door, they just forget it and walk away. Oh, okay.

Starting point is 00:18:12 Let me tell you, this is the first of many times that the Cleveland Police Department dropped the mother fucking ball on this. That's insane. The Cleveland Police Department arrived at this house and knocked on this store several more times. Are you kidding me?

Starting point is 00:18:26 When he didn't answer it, they would just leave. And that was it. Yeah. Like certain things, especially like abduction of a four-year-old, deserve a little follow-up. Yep. That definitely deserves follow-up. Well, this was also investigated by Cleveland's child and family services. Obviously. by Cleveland's child and family services. Yeah, mostly. They found it, child abuse and neglect,

Starting point is 00:18:47 but they said it was unsubstantiated. Oh, okay. That makes perfect sense. So they were like, except not at all. We're not gonna press any charges against it. It's fine. Also, I'm sure that's how it goes. I'm sure that's how it goes.

Starting point is 00:18:58 I'm sure that's how it goes. No, I'm not, after many of these stories, I'm never. And again, if you drive a bus, I'm sure you're a wonderful person. Oh yeah, 100%. I'm not trying And again, if you drive a bus, I'm sure you're a wonderful person. Oh yeah, 100%. I'm not trying to tell you that like all bus drivers of the worst, I had great bus drivers during growing up.

Starting point is 00:19:10 But, oh, you know what? These two instances that I can think of, I'm not into. I had a shitty bus driver one time. And he missed the stop of my house. He like didn't stop at my house. And I was like, there was like a lot of other kids on the bus and then I like went to the front.

Starting point is 00:19:24 And I was, I was literally five years old. And I was like, there was like a lot of other kids on the bus and then I like went to the front and I was, I was literally five years old and I was like, it's one of my first memories. And I was like, you didn't stop at my house. And he was so mean. And he was like, ah, get off of the next stop. And I was like, I'm five. And he was like, oh my God.

Starting point is 00:19:36 It was, it was what I looked over there. Oh my God. And I remember my mom like when she gave a shit about me was ripped shit. I would have killed that man with my bare hands. I think honestly, I think that my mom almost did. I'm gonna be honest with you. Like, first of all, my kids aren't going on the bus.

Starting point is 00:19:51 That's just not happening anymore. But if they did, that happened. Mark my words, I would kill that man. And I was so scared. It's one of my first memories. That's a horrifying. I was wearing a pink jumper. That's horrifying because one of the things I keep thinking of is

Starting point is 00:20:06 My twins are four and I keep trying to think of like okay, they're four So I'm like hopefully she's not gonna remember much of this she won't the whole situation. I keep thinking that so I really hope she does most of my childhood was pretty traumatic and I don't remember a lot of it So that's good. Yeah. That's good. Yeah, that's fine. Perfect. Well, the good thing about this whole thing was the Cleveland School District did hold a disciplinary meeting.

Starting point is 00:20:31 Well, that's good. And he was suspended from work for 60 days without pay. Oh, perfect. Perfect punishment for that. Yeah, let's not fire the guy who was getting a child. No. Like that. Well, it's a sense.

Starting point is 00:20:44 Wait, obviously it's a union situation though, so it's a little harder to, which I mean, we're union family, so you can come out me bro. But it does make situations like this little harder to make. No, it totally does. It just fire him. He's got the union behind him. And he just wanted a foe foe. He just wanted a foe foe.

Starting point is 00:21:03 At Wendy's. That's terrible. But now, so again, he has Michelle. He has Amanda, the police have already been at the house. Nothing's happened in here. Do you think that they knew without the police were there, like Michelle and Amanda? I wonder if they did.

Starting point is 00:21:18 Because can you imagine you're like that close to that must be wild. I agree. Just for their Sikhs. close to that must be wild. I agree. Just for their seeks. So the third woman who was a girl, not a woman at this point, she was a young girl, Gina DeJesus. She went missing on April 2, 2004. Now let me just get one thing out of the way here. Felix DeJesus, Gina's father. He was friends with Ariel Castro. Are you kidding me? I just got chills. Yep. They were, they were friends in school, all through school together. They went like way back. So she knew him. This fucker took one of his good friend's daughters. Yeah, that's insane. Yeah. Gina's name was Georgina, but she went by Gina. Yeah. She was 14 years old at

Starting point is 00:22:03 the time of the abduct. How did he abduct her? So at 2.30 p.m. the day she went by Gina. Yeah. She was 14 years old at the time of the abduct. How did he abduct her? So at 2.30 p.m. the day she went missing, she left Wilbur Wright middle school. Like those because you're in like eight grade school. Yeah. The child to walk home with our lean Castro, who was her best friend and Ariel's 13 year old daughter. Okay.

Starting point is 00:22:22 Now none of his kids knew about what was going on. Wow. Because he wouldn't let his kids upstairs when they were over. Like, he would just be secretive and they were like, my dad's just weird. Right. And he also didn't live with him. So it was like, he used to be like-

Starting point is 00:22:37 When you said the house was a mess and stuff like that, so you had to wonder how often they were even there. Exactly. I don't think they were there that much. And when they were, he was weird and secretive about this stuff. So they were like, whatever. I'm just not even going to push it. Right.

Starting point is 00:22:48 So, Arlene and Gina parted ways. They were walking together. They wanted to hang out that night, but they ended up parting ways because Arlene couldn't come to Gina's house that day because she'd been grounded by her mother. Okay. I guess they had called her mother on a pay phone on the way and we're like, please, gonna go and she was like, no. Oh, remember those days?

Starting point is 00:23:08 Oh, I remember those days. A lot of her number of pay phones, but I remember being like, please, can I? I definitely remember it. So Gina was walking alone. Ariel drove past her and asked her, he said, have you seen our lean? And she was like, oh, yeah, I just saw her. Like, we were gonna hang out, but we're not anymore. And he was like, okay, I don't know where she is.

Starting point is 00:23:26 Can you help me find her? Oh my God. And she was like, oh yeah, sure. Now he later said he was turned on by her cleavage. Ew. She's 14. Ew. Now again, Gina knew him.

Starting point is 00:23:39 Right. She knew him. It's her dad's friend. So the family friend. So she gets in the car. Yeah, that's not one. That's because again, right. You think you know this person. All three of these women knew him in some off way. Right. Like Michelle knew him through his daughter Emily. And then Amanda knew him through one of his kids. It was like, I think she knew

Starting point is 00:24:01 Emily too. Yeah, like they all just knew who he was. Right. Like he wasn't in, neighbors said later, like he was a friendly guy. He was totally, he was gross and dirty and like his house was disgusting. Yeah. Like we all know someone who's like that and you're like, well they're a nice person,

Starting point is 00:24:17 like I don't know. Right. So it's not like he was like outwardly portraying this monster vibe. Right. So she gets in the car. And on the way, he asked her if she could help him. She was like, you know what, can you help me move

Starting point is 00:24:28 some speakers into my house? Nope. And she was like, sure. Grown men don't need her help. Now let me help again. Never fucking help people. No, ground men don't need her help. No, no.

Starting point is 00:24:37 Grown men don't need her help. Grown asked people don't need your help. No. And if you were, if you have a child or you are a child right now listening to this, go to bed, but also a grown up never need your help. It's maybe somebody's listening at like one 30 and like study hall. And they're like, well, shit. A couple. And you know what? If you have kids, you know, the easiest thing to tell them, I'm going to tell my kids all the kids all the time, grownups don't need your help. And

Starting point is 00:25:04 if they're asking you for your, for help, there's a problem. And then some of your kids are going to be like, mom, I'm going to have to go and empty the dishwasher because you don't need my help. I mean, can you just get this for me? They're like, oh, you don't need my help. But whatever, I'd rather them know that. So he got Gina inside the home. And then immediately brought her upstairs saying the speakers were upstairs. No, they're not. When they got upstairs, he brought her into a bathroom and he immediately said, show me your privates. Oh, ew, that's how he put it. Oh. So she immediately gets weirded out.

Starting point is 00:25:38 And she's like, uh, I want to leave. Ew, I just got straight up nauseous. Yeah. Yeah. Because so he was like, sure, but you have to leave. So he was like, you know what, I'm sorry. Ew, I just got straight up nauseous. Yeah, because so he was like, sure, but you have to leave, so he was like, you know what, I'm sorry, that was rude of me and inappropriate. Yeah, buddy. So you can leave, but you have to leave a different way than you came in. So I'm gonna lead you out a different way.

Starting point is 00:25:57 And she was like, okay, cool. I would have been like, why? And I'm sure in her head, she's just thinking like, I wanna get the fuck out of here. Like just get me the fuck out of here. So he tricked her into going into the basement because he was like oh, I'm gonna lead you out the back of the basement Now if anybody heard part one the basement is not a place you want to be

Starting point is 00:26:16 So after putting plastic ties on her wrist and chaining her to the pole he raped her. It gross Oh my god, he was finished He placed the motorcycle helmet over her head and left her there. That. And to the pull and sobbing. Like the motorcycle helmet just adds an element of like terror. Straight up horror. Like straight up horror.

Starting point is 00:26:38 Like that's a horror movie. Yeah. That's the thing in the horror movie that you like, that's a little too far. Yeah. Like that you're watching and you like that. Like that kind of takes me out of the realism of it. Nobody would do that And then it's like no somebody did they would now Michelle said she could hear her screaming for help the entire time Oh my god, I'm from the basement. She said she could literally hear her yell somebody please help me. Oh god This is I'm genuinely nauseous. I know that just gave me like this case is like turning my stomach

Starting point is 00:27:06 It really is. I promise there's a happy ending at the end So at 3.45 p.m. Gina's mom Nancy wondered where her daughter was because she'd probably also just called her too Like hey, can we do a sleepover? Yeah, and she's like where the hell is she right? She'll she tech She checked the places she usually went and then she started calling her friends No one had seen her, heard from her. At 509 pm, she reported her missing to the Cleveland police. According to the report, her mom told them her daughter was, quote, mentally around the age of nine or 10 years old and attend special ed classes.

Starting point is 00:27:40 Oh no! The report also stated, last seen by Castro Arlene of West 110 Lorraine destination unknown So it's just really creepy that in the missing port. It's like last scene with Arlene Castro, right? It's like that's the father of which is the person who stole her So yeah, so at the time she was mentally around the age of 9 or 10 That's so horrific. Yeah So yeah, so at the time she was mentally around the age of 9 or 10. That's so horrific.

Starting point is 00:28:07 Yeah. That Saturday morning there were roadblocks set up or police were stopping each car to show photos of Gina. They were using bloodhounds. I mean the search was on. Yeah. This girl, this was a huge, huge missing person's case. The same afternoon the police went to Amanda's boyfriend's home, Amanda Berry's boyfriend. His name was Denise O Diaz,

Starting point is 00:28:30 and they brought him in for questioning, because at this time, he was a prime suspect. It's always the husband. It's always the husband. That's a fun dinner. In fact, all of his neighbors, when he was like brought out of the house with the police, they were all like clapping.

Starting point is 00:28:43 And they were all like, they got him. The poor dude. I. And they were like, they got them. The poor dude. I know because they were thinking, like not only did he abduct a mandiberry, but they were like, he probably knows where Gina is. Right, right. They all thought that. And according to the Lost Girls,

Starting point is 00:28:57 the true story of the Cleveland abductions and the incredible rescue of Michelle Knight, a mandiberry in Gina De Hazeuse by John Glatt. It's a great book. I'm going to put it in the show notes. Do it. Her boyfriend was stopped a lot in the next few years following their abductions because he remained a suspect. Right.

Starting point is 00:29:13 Periodically, they would just stop him, show up at his door, pull him in the aerial castro and function this guy's life up to. Yeah, exactly. According to the same source, that book, that day flyers were distributed by Gina's family and friends, and one flyer with her face on it was put outside of Ariel Castro's home on a tree. Also, Ariel joined the search. It's always so fucked up to me when they do something like that or like go to the funeral.

Starting point is 00:29:39 Exactly. It's so weird. It's such another level of fucked. It is. And remember, he was friends with her father and her family. Right. So he joined this search as a concerned friend, right? Right. Meanwhile, he's got his daughter chained to a pole with a mason with a motorcycle, a motorcycle handed on her head. And he's raped her. Yeah. Now that Sunday, the FBI became involved because there's three missing girls.

Starting point is 00:30:05 And it's a missing children's case at this point. And they usually get involved with that stuff like we saw in like polyclass and so. At this point, Ariel figured he was fucked. All of a sudden, when the FBI came involved, he was like, oh, I'm going to be caught. And I think he realized I stole three women in broad daylight. Yeah. Eventually, somebody's's gonna catch on. So he decided to write a confession letter because he likely planned to kill himself.

Starting point is 00:30:36 Really? He didn't, but he wrote about in the confession letter, it's this ridiculous letter. It's like he talks about him being a sexual predator, which is a weird sexual predator, but he's like, I'm sick. I'm sick and it's like, boo fucking, who? No. And he says like, he says I'm sick. It's because I was sexually abused by a relative as a child. Okay, I'm sorry, but there's like plenty of fucking people that have experienced that nightmare. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:30:58 You can't use that as your excuse to then go and do the same fucking thing that some monster did to you. Exactly. I mean, look at Michelle Ney. That makes me so angry. look at Michelle Neck. That makes me so angry. Look at Michelle Neck. Exactly.

Starting point is 00:31:08 And it's like, that's a crutch. There's millions of people who are abused and suffer horrific indignities and atrocities. That doesn't mean you go do the same exact thing. Most of them do not. And it's like, so for when people blame that, it's like, well, you're fuck you. Right. Because you decided to take that path.

Starting point is 00:31:26 And that would just be like, that would be like me just being like, I'm gonna be negligent as fuck. Yeah, I'm just gonna be an asshole. Cause I was neglecting that. No, no. It's like, you choose your path. You do.

Starting point is 00:31:35 And I hate when people use their path as like, as a crutch. Oh, it drives me nuts. As a crutch to be an asshole. Exactly. I don't wanna hear it. As a crutch in general. Yeah, it's just not, it's like, fuck you man. So yeah, so he's like, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me, me letter. Why? Because he was like, well, they got in my car. They should have known better.

Starting point is 00:32:05 Oh, okay. Cool. It's like, oh, okay. So it's their fault. Yeah, totally. So Ariel, like, honestly, now let me spoil her. This fucker is dead now, which I'm sad about. Alrighty.

Starting point is 00:32:15 I wish he was rotting. I mean, like straight up rotting in the disease. I'm sad. But I hope he's dealing with, uh, bees with teeth in the bad place right now. I like that. If anyone has seen the good place, that's one of bees with teeth in the bad place right now. I like that. If anyone has seen the good place That's one of the punishments in the bad place and I always thought it was a great punishment. Bees with teeth I like no you don't need any specifics like what the bees with teeth do just knees with teeth

Starting point is 00:32:37 I just hope he's living in a place with bees with teeth That's kind of a tongue twister and I'm pretty impressed by you. It is. It is. That was a teeth. Bees with teeth. Bees with teeth So I hope he's I hope he's dealing with bees with teeth. That's kind of a tongue twister, and I'm pretty impressed by you. It is, it is. That was a little time. Bees with teeth, bees with teeth. Bees with teeth. So I hope he's dealing with bees with teeth. So the same guy who is in charge of Amanda's abduction, special agent Robert Hawk, which I believe we talked about in part one.

Starting point is 00:32:56 Baller name. I mean, you have to become a special FBI agent. Yeah, you do. Your name is Robert Hawk. Like, you don't have another choice. Well, you could be a skateboarder You could that's true. Yeah, but you know what becoming a pilot a pilot. Oh Robert Hawk Oh, I let Robert. Oh, like if somebody came off. Yeah, he got a few options

Starting point is 00:33:14 It was like I'm your pilot today pilot Robert Hawk. I'd be like we're okay. Yeah, I'd be like let's get it He's a fucking hawk. I'm ready to fly or Navy seal. He would be Navy seal. Oh, that's a great one Yeah, that's a bit you know you got you got to do great. Yeah. So that's all. So he was put on as the lead of Gina's case as well. I'm glad. So it's a good hand. Yeah. With Robert Ock. Her parents Nancy and Felix were like literally not sleeping. Of course not. They are because I mean I don't even want to fathom this week. No. I'm not even sleep. I haven't slept for two weeks and I know where my child is. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:33:48 I haven't slept for two weeks just where I am. When your child isn't like some kind of danger or like anything like that, you don't. Not knowing where your child is and what is happening to them is a nightmare I can't even put in. Not having your kin in your house. I feel like I've seen that affect you like so much the past two weeks. Big time. And it's like, just like not having everybody

Starting point is 00:34:08 under one roof. It's like, I just couldn't imagine this kind of situation. They had a command center at their house. They had flyers being sent out. They were canvassing everywhere themselves. Like they were doing the damn thing. They never stopped.

Starting point is 00:34:22 One day, Ariel Castro came to their fucking home, hugged them and said how sorry he was for them, and then offered to distribute pliers. Are you kidding me? It took a pile of pliers. So weird. And you're gonna find out what he did with one of those pliers.

Starting point is 00:34:38 We give it to him. We give it to him. So everyone in the area at this point in Cleveland, like we're terrified for kids. They were thinking there's some like, were terrified for kids. They were thinking there's some like, child of Dr. Flosner. Was there like curfews and shit and stills?

Starting point is 00:34:49 Yeah, it was just everyone was freaking out. No one was walking anywhere, it was crazy. So Friday, April 9th, the day after Gina turned 15 years old. Oh, it was her birthday. Yep. An anonymous tip was called into the FBI. Now, this tip said for them to look into a guy named Fernando Cologne, who was working as a security guard at West Town Plaza.

Starting point is 00:35:11 Not a Cologne sprayer, I guess. This is... No, damn it. He was also married to Ariel's ex-wife. Oh. So I wonder where this tip came from. I don't know. It's hard to tell.

Starting point is 00:35:22 It is. It's hard. It's hard to connect these dots. It is. He was picked up on that morning and interviewed for hours. He was also given and passed a polygraph test, and his car was friendsickly searched and cleared. Later, he was being driven home by another FBI agent, and he literally said to this agent, quote, I told them, so he says, in, I read it in, I'm tired of it, I'm gonna find the article and I'll post it. He says quote, I told them to investigate Ariel Castro because he knows Gina and her parents and where they live. Oh shit. They ignored him and never questioned

Starting point is 00:35:58 Ariel. Okay. Makes sense. The FBI ignored him. Yep. And the FBI denies this conversation ever took place just to be just in the, you know, just to be clear about everybody's, everybody's thoughts on this. This is what Fernando Cologne says. The FBI says that never happened. I don't know who's telling the truth. Only the two people in that car now. Right. But it's worth saying. It wasn't until Gina was in the house for two weeks that Michelle finally met her. So she was in the house for two weeks that Michelle finally met her. She was in the house for two weeks and she never met her. And she had met Amanda before, right? She met Amanda, but she had only seen Amanda like once. Because they were all in different ways.

Starting point is 00:36:34 And Amanda was kept separate from them. As we'll see later, he starts calling Amanda like his wife and shit. Like yeah, it was weird. So Ariel was pretending that she was, he brought her in and was like, this is my daughter. Me, Gina. And Michelle was like, you're an idiot. Like, I've watched the TV. Like, you gave me a TV.

Starting point is 00:36:56 I've watched the news. And like, I've heard the basement yelling. Yeah, like I've heard her screaming in the basement. So he stuck them in a bathroom together and he was like, she's gonna do your hair. Gina's gonna do your hair. Okay. And Michelle was like, why? Like, what the fuck? So he was like, do her hair. And why? And he was like, okay. So she just starts like doing twists in her hair. And she was like, okay, so he left them alone for like a second because he went in the kitchen, like turned his back. And Michelle whispered to her like, don't let him know that I know who you are, but I know who you are.

Starting point is 00:37:30 Like I know that you're Gina. Yeah. I've been watching the news and she was like, holy shit. And then she was like, don't let him know because I don't know if he's gonna be pissed that I know he's trying to run you on your daughter. Right. And then she was like, when I can get closer to you, I will give you tips on how to survive him. Oh. Like she was like, I felt like I had to take care of her. What an angel. And she was like, and after it was done, she was like, oh, it looked really pretty.

Starting point is 00:37:52 Like she did a really good job, so she was like, thank you. Oh. And he got pissed. Why? Like, he's just a psychopath. What the fuck? So he put Gina in one of the upstairs bedrooms

Starting point is 00:38:03 after keeping her in the basement for a while. And he hung one of those missing posters in the room. Oh my God. Yeah, like why hung the missing poster in her room? So she had to sit there and stare at it because he chained her up to a mattress like he didn't Michelle. So he chained it to the other end of the room so she would just sit there and have to look at the missing poster. That's so funny. Sitting there knowing her family look at the missing poster. That's so amazing. Like sitting there knowing her family is out there, missing her and trying to find her. Right. It's awful. So eventually he brought Gina into the room with Michelle.

Starting point is 00:38:36 Okay. And he padlocked them together with rusty chains. Okay. So he was like on this like nasty mattress. So Michelle says that they bonded like a ton of course because they were Chained to each other literally literally And they had like and they all of them only had like a pot to piss in and shit in and do whatever and he would empty it Like once in a while. So she said it smelled disgusting. It would overflow and he would just leave it

Starting point is 00:39:03 I wonder how sick they were when they got down. They said they were really sick, like really sick. This is really like trigger warning, because it's gonna be like, we've already talked about rape, but like things get kind of hairy. I'm not gonna go into like graphic details. I'm like I'm already straight up nauseous.

Starting point is 00:39:20 Yeah, and some of these things are just really like, they can be triggering, you know, and here. he would he would come into rape one of them, which he would rape them several times a day. Because he's the most disgusting while he been being ever. Well, they said when he would rape one of them, they would hold hands all to try to like comfort each other. Right. And Michelle said he thought of Gina as his like her sister. And he was like, so she was like, I always felt like I had to protect her. And he would come in and try to attack Gina. And she would take it.

Starting point is 00:39:51 And she would say, no, take me, take me. She would try to be like, try to save her. And it would piss him off. Right, of course, because he's a gross normal. This is just a nightmare. All of the girls, he did give all the girls journals, which is weird. Which is weird. Yeah, it's very weird.

Starting point is 00:40:06 Amanda was apparently the one who kept the most detailed records. I guess they all drew a lot. They all, because what else are you going to say? I was going to say. But she had several journals. One was called the Blue Journal, which was talked about basically in graphic detail, the sexual assaults and the rapes. You said this is Amanda. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:40:30 She was, she named one of the mischady handcrafted items. Okay. And these were like personal little like drawings and like writings that she did. And then she had a black journal that was entitled, entitled Love. Oh. She also wrote letters to her mother every day. Oh my God, stop.

Starting point is 00:40:50 Yeah. Now, he started referring to Amanda, like I said, as his wife. Weird. And he started taking Gina and Michelle outside in the backyard to rape them. He raped them in the backyard? Carps or up against his car.

Starting point is 00:41:06 And what they think is that because this was when he was referring to, he was literally like saying like, me and Amanda are married. That's my wife. Okay. So they think he was literally doing this in some sick, weird way to like keep it out of the house. So that Amanda like, like a man does. that Amanda wouldn't know that like he was...

Starting point is 00:41:26 Even though she's like, homey, I'm not your wife. Yeah, that's weird. Their pink bedroom that they were chained up in together became so filthy and disgusting that they both had bed sores. Oh, yeah. Ouch. Now on Wednesday, November 17th, 2004,

Starting point is 00:41:42 Luana Miller, who is Amanda Berry's mother. She went on the Montel Williams show. Do you remember that show? No. You don't remember the Montel Williams show? Oh, the power. How fucking old was I? It's 2004.

Starting point is 00:41:55 How old were you? Eight. Oh, shit. So, do you remember psychic Sylvia Brown? Sounds familiar. Fuck, alright. Well, I'm an oldie's where you at. I remember the mori show. Everybody's gonna remember Sylvia Brown sounds familiar. Fuck, alright. Well, I'm an oldies where you at. I remember the morris show.

Starting point is 00:42:08 Everybody's gonna remember Sylvia Brown who's like my age. So they were having TV Cycchic Sylvia Brown on the show and she was there because she was going to tell her what happened to Amanda. Right. Sylvia Brown is a piece of shit. Oh. So just putting that up. Is she a liar?

Starting point is 00:42:24 She's just an asshole. I think a lot of these people who claim to be psychics and tell people whether their children are alive or dead, their missing kids are pieces of shit. I really do. I think they exploit people. I think that's fucked. Don't email me.

Starting point is 00:42:39 I think even if you need me. Yeah, don't ask me. Honestly, if you're one of those psychics to do that, like don't message me because I don't give a shit. Like, if you're one of those psychics, you do that like, don't message me, because I don't give a shit. Like I think it's really fucked. You know what it's fucked? Because even if you know, you don't know.

Starting point is 00:42:52 So it's like, stop. There's never, there's never been a point where this has been really so. What did she say? So Sylvia Brown said she saw Amanda's black hooded jacket in a dumpster. Okay. And she said it had the perpet jacket in a dumpster. Okay. And she said it had the perpetrator's DNA all over it.

Starting point is 00:43:08 Okay. And so Amanda's mother told her that there were reports that Amanda may have gotten into a white car with three people in it because that was one of the reports that like floated around. Um, and she was like, is there any truth? Cause people just make shit up. So Sylvia said there was only one person. Okay.

Starting point is 00:43:26 And I mean, like she got some of this like somewhat correct. Yeah. But you have to wonder if that's like luck. Well, that's the thing. So she said, she said she the note there was one person. And then Amanda's mom said, can you tell me if they'll ever find her? Is she out there? And Sylvia said, oh God. She's, see, I hate this when they're in water. I just hate this.

Starting point is 00:43:51 Are you shitting me? She's not alive, honey, and I'll tell you why. Your daughter is not the type that wouldn't have checked in with you if she was alive, but I'm sorry they didn't find the jacket because that had DNA on it. Like, where did you, you like what part of your ass did you pull that out of? Well, that's the thing. It's like, lady water and to sit there and say, I really hate it when they're in water. Literally Sylvia, like, oh, I'm so sorry to inconvenience you Sylvia. To sit there and say to a grieving mother, I'm, I hate when they're in water.

Starting point is 00:44:23 What the fuck? Like you hate it and also like what cuz now you're sitting you've now planted in her head that are poor Ground or rotting in water somewhere probably right. It's like god damn it. I Just like fucking hate that shit. Yeah, that's not okay grieving parents like that's unbelievable no grieving parents, like that's unbelievable. No. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery's podcast American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history, presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our newest series, we look at the Kids for Cash Scandal, a story about corruption inside America's system of juvenile justice. In Northeastern Pennsylvania, residents had begun noticing an alarming trend. Children

Starting point is 00:45:10 were being sent away to jail in high numbers, and often for committing only minor offenses. The FBI began looking at two local judges, and when the full picture emerged, it made national headlines. The judges were earning a fortune carrying out a brazen criminal scheme, one that would shatter the lives of countless children and force a heated debate about punishment and America's criminal justice system. Follow American scandal wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad free on the Amazon Music or Wonder App. Hey there fellow podcast listener, it's Elena. And Ash! And we're taking you back to the days before streaming services.

Starting point is 00:45:49 Whoa! You know when you would come home from high school, and it was only a few hours until that TV show, everyone was watching was about to come on. Well, in 1999, that show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In our podcast with Wondery, the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer, we take it back to 1999. So get out your knee-high boots and paste that poster of Angel on the wall.

Starting point is 00:46:12 It's time to enter the Buffyverse. Some of you avid morbid listeners already know what we've gotten store. Hey, my nose. Join us as we sway our way through Buffy's drama, action, and romance! Episode by Episode Slacy. Follow the rewatcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer, wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Darn, ee-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e- Oh. So Amanda's mother's sobbing at this point. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:46:47 And asks, so do you think I'll ever get to see her again? And Sylvia said, yeah, in heaven, on the other side. Oh, OK. Go fuck yourself, Sylvia. What the actual fuck? So yeah, that was awesome. I'm sure that was a real boost to her fucking moron. Sike, yeah Yeah in late October

Starting point is 00:47:06 Gina DeJesus' parents appeared on the Mori Povit show. Hey, oh They were shadowing they had a segment with Long Island psychic Jeffrey Wands not Theresa Caputo not Criterisa Caputo damn it See that would have been great. Everything would have been fine because trace the Caputo knows her damn shit She's the shit. She'll stop you at the deli. She will stop your ass at the grocery store and be like, let me tell you what your dead relative has to say. And she's always right.

Starting point is 00:47:31 Tell me she's wrong. At me. Jeffrey Wands said Gina was kidnapped by a sexual predator. Correct. She was correct. He said that they had spoken to her several times. Who would spoke to him? A sexual predator. Oh, okay, yeah.

Starting point is 00:47:46 And he told them their daughter was still alive. Okay. And that her abductor knew the area from where she was, from where he had taken her very well. Long Island's where it's at, hold me. But I'm psychics. It seems like Long Island is breeding some real ass psychics.

Starting point is 00:48:00 I'm saying. They really are. Long Island where it's at, apparently. But then he got it wrong. So he said so he got it right up until then. Then he said this guy was black. He is not with facial hair in his late 20s to early 30s around five foot nine inches tall. He was wrong. Okay. Because Ariel Castro is not black and he is not five feet nine inches tall and he was not that he's like it is 40s. Yeah, yeah I don't even know like that. I was at the time, but um, but yeah, he was not any of that. So

Starting point is 00:48:31 Wamp won. So now they're looking for the wrong suspect. That's the other thing about that shit. It's like no dude Don't lead people in a direction unless you're fully confident exactly what she probably is, but he probably has another story Whatever April 2005 the FBI released a sketch of a person of interest who was seen lurking around Gina's school when she disappeared. Yuckel. He looked just like Ariel Castro because he was Ariel Castro. Makes sense. Ariel later said that he was watching. He said he watched all of three of these girls and that he was lurking around Gina's school. And initially he said that he actually meant to kidnap another girl. Oh, and that he actually didnking around Gina's school and initially he said that he actually meant to kidnap another girl.

Starting point is 00:49:06 Oh. And that he actually didn't mean to kidnap Gina, but he was like, oh well. I meant to kid like what? Like another girl that looked like her and he was like, I got it wrong. Wow. Yep. You're dumb. Now on April 21st, 2005, it was the second anniversary of Amanda's disappearance.

Starting point is 00:49:23 So she had been there for two years. Oh my god. And there was a televised candlelit vigil for her where her mother was leading them and singing happy birthday to her. Oh, my stomach just fell on flip. It's so tragic and horrible. Ariel had them watch it and he served cake to celebrate. What? Yep.

Starting point is 00:49:43 And from then on, he served cake to celebrate each of their anniversaries of when he abducted them. That is the most twisted thing. So every year on the day he abducted them, he would serve them cake. Yep. Also, imagine eating anything he gave you. There was, and the thing is, all of them said that he just gave them like rotten food too, so they just ate rotten food while they were there. Oh my god.

Starting point is 00:50:07 Like spoiled beans and shit like that. And like it just left overs from what he would, like, it is a true unfathomable nightmare what they went through. And like I said earlier, he liked to play mind games with them, so he would rape and beat them in front of each other. And sometimes he would pretend to leave for the day and then wait and see if one of them tried to move or leave. And if they did, he would ruthlessly beat them and then chain them to the pole in the basement. Oh my God.

Starting point is 00:50:36 So punishments were like holding food from them for like weeks at a time. He just wouldn't feed them. Jesus Christ. He would withhold water from them for days. He would take away the buckets. He gave them his toilets. So he was like, don't know what to tell you. Go where you want. Oh my God. So they have to literally like pee on the floor. Probably why they got like fed sorts of stuff. Oh yeah. He would lock them in the freezing

Starting point is 00:50:57 basement in the winter or the boiling hot attic in the summer. Oh God. Yep. He would also force them to play Russian roulette all the time. Oh no no no no. Oh God. Oh God. And then he would do these weird trust exercises. Like the part of it was like when he would leave and see if they moved and if they stayed to like put where they were, he would come back and be like see I need to be able to trust you. And like that was part of his like psychological torture. And then he would do Russian roulette to them, or he would give them the gun and say, pull the trigger. And if they did it, if the, and obviously they were like, they would freak out. And he was like, see, I need to be able to trust you. That really like Russian roulette scares me on a whole different level. Oh, I don't like that. Now in March 2006, Amanda's mother passed away

Starting point is 00:51:46 of heart failure. Oh my god. Why did you choose this fucking story? I'm sorry. It's a really tough, it's a tough, damn it. People immediately, everyone around her said she died of a broken heart. Of course she did. Because her daughter, I've been listening to years, especially after Sylvia fucking brown told her that her daughter was dead. Yeah, thanks a lot, Sylvia. She kind of lost hope, like she had been holding out hope. A reporter who knew her from the case agreed and said, quote, and people asked me, how do you know that? And he said, because I was listening to her heartbreak for three years. Oh my god. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:52:22 Now, what's even worse, Amanda found this out because Michelle and Gina watched the coverage of it on the news. And when a Michelle saw Amanda for a brief minute during the day, she said, I'm so sorry for your loss. And Amanda was like, what are you talking about? And she was like, and she was like, I didn't want her to find out any other way. So I was like, your mother passed away. Oh my God. And she was like, I didn't want her to find out any other way. So I was like, your mother passed away. Oh my God. And she said she just said and saw, she could hear her sobbing from the other room. And I was like, that, how do you, and you're all alone? Like, how do you not just like dematerial, like, just dematerialize into nothing?

Starting point is 00:52:58 I don't have any. Like, I feel like at that, that whole situation and then hearing your mother passed away. Well, on the, at that point, it's just like everything. What do I have here? Like, you know, I mean, like, for them to keep going, I'm like, holy shit. Yeah. Like these women are, this is on another level. This is horrific. Now soon after this, Amanda got pregnant with Ariel's baby.

Starting point is 00:53:22 No, thank you. And he was pleased. Well, that's a life-a-laner. Michelle gets the baby's beat, not of her, but this one he was pleased with because this is his wife, of course. This is also when Michelle got even worse treatment. You started taking more out on Michelle, which is weird. She was only fed once a day and it was leftovers Michelle.

Starting point is 00:53:47 And she got one shower a week and got regular beatings. Now, he would also, one of the things he would do for like mind games, he would make them shower with him. Oh my god, fun and gross. And then for allowing them to shower, even just with him, he would say, you owe me. Ew. And then when he would rape them, after he would rape them, he would throw cash at them.

Starting point is 00:54:12 Like he would literally treat it like it was a transaction. What? Like that they were a part of. And he was like, they would be like, no, you're a rapist. This was not a transaction. And like, I'm in a fucking room. I don't need your...

Starting point is 00:54:24 What the fuck am I gonna do with that? That's fucked up on so many different. If they wanted something like a like a notebook or something, he would be like, well, you have to pay for it. Oh my god. Yeah. It was so beyond. How does how does a monster's mind even like come up with this shit? That's the thing. Like how did he come up with that? How is your mind that dark awful and dark, awful and horrific? Well, and at one point he brought his grandson, who is a toddler. Oh my God. And the son of his daughter Angie to the house.

Starting point is 00:54:53 And he told the girls the boys wanted to see upstairs. So he was like, you have to hide your chains so they don't scare him. Okay. So they're all like, what the fuck? So he comes in and they're all like, hi buddy. And like Michelle said he was like, oh, you're so handsome. Like they're just sitting there like, uh, the kid bursts. Like she said the kid looked around and was like, oh, fuck no.

Starting point is 00:55:15 And he was a toddler and he could say like, shits. We're not okay. He started bursting into tears and screaming for his mother. Oh my God. A few weeks after this, Angie Castro, his mother, in Emily Castro, arrived at Ariel's house because they were like something weird is going on. What the fuck is up there? Like, because that kid went back to his mother and was like, there's women up there.

Starting point is 00:55:38 Right. And with them were Angie's husband and Emily's boyfriend. So they were like, we're going to fuck you up, dude. What happened? Now, shortly before the family arrived, they boyfriend. So they were like, we're gonna fuck you up, dude. What happened? Now shortly before the family arrived, they had told him they were on their way. Come on.

Starting point is 00:55:50 Oh, dammit. So Ariel unchained all the women, marched them all downstairs to the basement, chained them to the large pole in the middle, he wound duct tape around their heads and stuffed dirty socks in the back. But no, he then told them if anyone made so much as a sound while his family was there,

Starting point is 00:56:06 he would shoot them all. Oh my God. Now, Michelle said soon she heard someone upstairs demand that he unlock the basement so they could look downstairs. And she said, one of the guys up there said, they're down there, I hear music. And so, because he blasted salsa music.

Starting point is 00:56:24 That was a little, and a, you. And the fact that it was like cheerful. I know, right? It's even scarier. It's like horns and shit. It's just like so much dance. Too much. But Ariel wouldn't allow them down there because he was like, oh, it's flooded and it's under construction.

Starting point is 00:56:36 It's dangerous. You can't go down there. I'd be like, I'm going anyway. So everybody apparently was like, whatever, like we can't. What are we going to do? So once everyone left, he came back down to the basement, took off the duct tape over their mouths and fed them some gross meal. And then he went back up and left them all together in the basement.

Starting point is 00:56:56 For the next three weeks, he left them chained together to a pole in the basement. And like didn't feed them or anything? Oh, no, yeah, he would barely feed them, but then he would come down every once every day and take one of them upstairs to rape them and then bring them back downstairs for three weeks. Wow. Now a little bit after this, his family was coming over again, probably to still make sure that things were not like it would be like what is going on here. So at this point, he forced all three of the girls into his van in the garage, where he chained them in the summer heat with the windows up and locked them in there for five days.

Starting point is 00:57:37 They could have died. I'm surprised they didn't die. They all said they passed out several times, like blacked out, didn't know. Oh, like your organs are literally cooking at that point. Yeah. Now in December that year, Michelle got pregnant for the fourth time. Oh, no. Uh, when Ariel found out he stopped feeding her and then force fed her soda. What? Yep. For three weeks, she was sick as a dog with like morning sickness until Ariel got

Starting point is 00:58:03 frustrated and kicked and punched her stomach until he killed the unborn child. Wow yeah. And the way she describes this one and the last one is horrific. I didn't want to go into too much detail because it's honestly too much for me to even like comprehend. It's too much for you. If you want to read about it, it's in her book. She does say like what happened, and if you want to read it by all means, go ahead. I mean, you get the idea. She's kicked and punched until, but she goes into more detail about like watching it die basically. Like it's a really sad one. Never mind. Yeah, it's pretty awful. So on Christmas day, Amanda went into labor.

Starting point is 00:58:52 Oh, wow. And was brought into... So one of the things I read said she was brought into the basement. The other one says she was on the filthy mattress, either way it's disgusting. And she was going to deliver the child in the house. He wasn't going to bring it to the hospital. Right.

Starting point is 00:59:07 Michelle was forced to deliver it for her. Okay. So what happened was, I think it was like early early morning. Michelle was woken up by Ariel Castro and he was like, get up. You need to deliver this child. And she was like, I'm not a girl about, or a doctor delivering a kid.

Starting point is 00:59:23 She had no medical experience. Right. Right. None. So, and also, she had miscarried, excuse me, not miscarried. She had had four children beaten out of her by this man. Right. And now he's telling her you have to deliver this other child. Right.

Starting point is 00:59:38 Like, that is such another level of fucked up. One he did that on. Oh, 100%. Her presence. So, the baby was blue when it was born. Oh, no in Michelle who had zero experience again in the medical field Was forced to figure this out because Ariel started screaming at her that if the baby died It was her fault and he was gonna kill her. Oh my god. Like he was literally screaming. I will kill you if that baby dies like figure it out So she was like holy shit. So she gives the newborn baby

Starting point is 01:00:08 CPR Like starts breathing for the baby is figuring out she had no idea what she was doing. She's figured it out Ariel screaming out of the entire time that he's gonna murder her and suddenly the baby started crying Oh my god, the baby is a baby girl named Jocelyn. Oh started crying. Oh my God. The baby is a baby girl named Jocelyn. Now as the baby grew into a toddler, now apparently Ariel was like super into this kid. But like where did he where was he able to like hide Jocelyn when his family came over? Well that's the thing. He started referring to her as his girlfriend's kid. So he took her out and about, he like brought her to, he introduced her to everybody. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:00:47 And as she grew into a toddler, he made Michelle and Gina change their names around her because he was scared that she would understand someday or that she would get out of the house and be like, oh, Michelle and Amanda sent this to people be like, Michelle and Amanda. Right, right. What the fuck?

Starting point is 01:01:03 That's actually like Michelle and Gina, you know, I mean that's actually like like fuck up smart I know I hate when that happens I know I hate when they're actually like stumbled into like oh fuck that was like evil smart Yeah, so he named Michelle Michelle decided to be named juju because she loved juju bees candy Oh, and Gina was like I'll be named Chelsea I guess so they just so she called them like Auntie Juju and Auntie Chelsea. He took their chains off because or he took Amanda's chains off because he didn't want Jocelyn to be scared. Okay, I just like what? Like did you have a bedroom?

Starting point is 01:01:39 Or did she stay in the bedroom with a man? The Yucky bedroom. Yeah. Now sometimes he had them all so like, he was like weird with her and he was like, they said they never saw him hit her. Okay. Or like, do anything like that. Like physically hurt her. There was a time when they said like,

Starting point is 01:01:54 she woke up and she had a nightmare and she was like screaming. And he like ran up the stairs and like, was like, shut her up like, because he was worried the neighbors were gonna hear and like come to the house and like something was gonna happen. So Amanda was trying to comfort her like a mother does and was like rubbing her back and rocking her but she was still sobbing. So he took his hand and like put it over her face. It was like shut up until she shut up. So it's like

Starting point is 01:02:20 he was not a fucking prince. Oh this kid. Wow. But he had like weird, it was just weird. So sometimes he, this just was weird, what I read. He had them all sit up with him while they watched Keeping Up with the Kardashians, which was his favorite show. Yep. I don't want to laugh at like any point of this episode, but like, can you just imagine like watching Courtney and Chloe be in a fight and you're like, wow, literally like.

Starting point is 01:02:44 Yeah, like, what? On top of this hellish, that's also torture. You sit me in front of fucking TV and make me watch Keeping Up with the Kardashians. That's the cherry on the fucking cake. Like, wow, I love keeping up with the Kardashians, but it's like, Keeping up with the Kardashians is torture to me, so. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:03:03 Having to watch that while being in this situation. Alina doesn't let me watch it in her house. Oh, fuck no. My dad, whenever I visit my dad, my stepmom will let me watch you. She's like, get that shit off my television. I refuse. I will watch some crap TV, like Vanderpump rules, but I will not allow a TV with the Kardashians.

Starting point is 01:03:18 Well, that's not crap TV, get out of my face. But he also really liked Kim Kardashian, and would make like disgusting comments about her while he was sitting there with them. I'm sure. And they're all just like cool, cool, cool. Um, so in Gina and Michelle would make Jocelyn like baby clothes out of their old clothes. Oh, like they would literally like he gave them a sewing kit at one point because he was like sure, whatever. And they started sewing her clothes out of like their old t-shirts and stuff that they, and it was all like disgusting stuff.

Starting point is 01:03:46 Like they were like, we didn't know what to do. Like we just wanted to help. And he, again, he started telling people that Jossam was his girlfriend's child. Right. Now around 4 p.m. on April 3rd, Ariel Castro made an illegal U-turn outside of Robinson, Robinson G. Jones Elementary School. Okay. When he did this, he had a school bus full of kids. He was making a U-2 turn, which is illegal, but also really dangerous. You're not supposed to

Starting point is 01:04:13 fucking do that in a bus. He did this in front of several teachers and parents. Perfect. He was reported immediately to the Cleveland School District. They had a disciplinary hearing again, two weeks later, he was charged with two charges of disregarding his passenger safety and negligence, 60 days on paid suspension. Again, we're a union. So in November 2010, a neighbor heard banging coming from Ariel's home and they were like, what the fuck? Well, they had probably heard some other shit too and like, we're like, okay, and then you add everything up all together and you're like, okay, it's time to do something. Yeah. And this person said they saw a woman in the window with a baby and they were like,

Starting point is 01:04:54 what, like an attic window with a baby and they were like, what the fuck is going on? That's so spooky. Yeah, they were like, wait a second because they all thought he was just a single guy. So, like, who's this one? We've never seen this woman enter a leave the house. So later Michelle said it was her. A lot. She was trying to like get someone's attention. Um, the woman called police police came. They walked around the outside of the house, knocked on the door.

Starting point is 01:05:17 No one answered. So they left. So good. Perfect. Thanks, Evelyn. Right out there. Another neighbor, uh, Juan, was in his basement. I think he was with his sister,

Starting point is 01:05:27 and they heard screaming coming from Ariel's basement. They called the police. They said, quote, it was the kind of scream that made you uncomfortable. It gave us goosebumps and went on for 10 seconds. Wow. I had my sister call the police. Police came, knocked them door.

Starting point is 01:05:44 No one answered so they left You like you can't do that when nobody answers like you got a you got to do something It's like I'm sorry do all criminals just answer the door right when the police knock like are they like oh Do you know who they do you know who they needed in this situation? Dog the bounty on it. Yes. I knew you to say that. The lens needed to break down the door. Like what the fuck Cleveland? Nobody understands how much I love Dog the Bounty Hunter. I do.

Starting point is 01:06:11 I wish I didn't, but I do. You wish that I didn't love him? I just wish I didn't know that you loved him so much. It's a fact I wish to bury deep within. Well, but you know, it's out there now. Live it, learn it. What is that? What's out there now. So live it, learn it. What is that? What is that?

Starting point is 01:06:27 Job breaker. Live it, learn it, love it. So in November, a neighbor called, our name was LC Clinton or Clinton, excuse me, was walking home late one night and she saw a little girl in the window at Ariel's house. She's like, that's weird. And she's like, the whole thing just seemed weird to me. Like, who's this little girl in the window at Ariel's house. She's like, uh, that's weird. And she's like, the whole thing just seemed weird to me. Like, who's this little girl? We've never seen

Starting point is 01:06:49 you. Why is she up late at night? Why the fuck is she out there? Um, um, now she said she was like, all right, so she went home and she told her brother about this. And she's like, this is weird. Her brother's name was Lugo, I believe. Um, and she was like, you know what, can you like double check? Can you go like knock on the door and like see what's going on because I'm worried about this. So Lugo is like, sure, I'll go over. And he said there was plywood on the windows, there was like bags on trash all over the place. So it's like it was really weird. So he was like, you know what, I'm just going to call the cops. So he calls the cops. I don't wanna go there. Yeah, he was like, I'm not going in there. So he says, the cops came maybe half an hour later. They pounded on the door for maybe like five or six minutes and there was no answer. That was it.

Starting point is 01:07:33 They left. Also, do you think at some point they would be like, maybe this house is abandoned and we should figure it out. Well, that's, it's like, you've gotten, you've now received several calls. Right. About this one house.

Starting point is 01:07:45 From different people, not even the same people. Some women in there screaming coming from there. I don't, I feel like maybe you can investigate for a while. You could definitely get some sort of search that I'm worried. Yeah, and they both said LC and her brother said they just didn't take it seriously. Yeah, that's good. That's good. We don't care.

Starting point is 01:08:01 So a few weeks later, Lugo, the brother's niece, Nina, said she saw a naked girl wearing a dog collar in the backyard. Oh my god. I mean, that's something to investigate, I would say. For sure. So, soon after that, some people who lived at a retirement home nearby that could see into his backyard, said they saw three naked girls in his backyard, quote, they were naked on all fours with a leash and call around.

Starting point is 01:08:35 Oh, that's so fucked. Yep. And Lugo said, and they were being abused. The police were called again, but they never fucking came. Yeah. They just never even showed up to this one. How do you like arrest a police department? Right.

Starting point is 01:08:48 How does that work? Can somebody inform me? It's fucked. Now, shut that one down, start another. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Seriously, like let's just start fresh because this is not working. No.

Starting point is 01:08:59 Now Michelle got pregnant for a fifth time. Oh, no. An Ariel forced her. Now this is fucked. She's deathly allergic to time. Oh no. An Ariel forced her, now this is fucked. She's deathly allergic to mustard. Oh wow. And he knew that because he would bring, he was like really into McDonald's and fast food

Starting point is 01:09:12 and he would bring them away and that shit. And she was always like, I can't eat it if it has mustard on it. So he knew that. He forced her to eat a hot dog with mustard on it. Oh my, I'm sorry, she didn't die. And while she almost did, she went into anaphylectic shock basically.

Starting point is 01:09:26 On the mattress next to Gina, Gina nursed her back to hell. How? She said it took like two full weeks and she said she was blown up, could barely breathe at points. She said she crossed over at one point. Oh, she knows she did.

Starting point is 01:09:41 And she was like, and Gina literally was like, you can't leave, like you can't leave me. Please don't leave me. And she was also like and Gina literally was like, you can't leave. Like you can't leave me. Please don't leave me. And she was also like, you need to be here for Joey. Like, think of Joey, your son. And she's like credits Gina. She's like without Gina, I would not be here.

Starting point is 01:09:54 Wow. So she made it three months into this pregnancy before he kicked her down a flight of stairs and punched and kicked her until she miscarried again. Oh my God. And while she was miscarrying this child or while she this child was murdered and she was having to basically, um, X allow it to exit her body. Yeah. Um, she was screaming and crying. It was a terrific thing. He was blasting salsa music. Oh my god. Can you imagine what they, what happens to their psyche when they hear salsa music? I was literally just

Starting point is 01:10:27 thinking that. Like even I'm thinking of it. I'm like I don't ever because you know what's weird. We would we had to go on an ambulance with my my daughter and it was the worst experience in my life. And now I said it the other day I was like I have rarely been triggered by anything. I am triggered by ambulance now. No, it's triggered by the ambulance. Oh, it's like, what the fuck? So I'm just thinking, like, I saw an ambulance, like a wee-woo, like by me the other day.

Starting point is 01:10:52 And I was like, blah, like I just got this worse. Like I'm fine, but it was like this little, you know, like I don't wanna think about it. Oh, I wanna hold you. So sitting there thinking, like, this, can you imagine this kind of fucking triggering? I can't imagine. That was, I can't imagine what that does to you.

Starting point is 01:11:07 I don't know how you go on at all. I really don't. Like these women are amazing. And I don't know how you trust anybody after this. Yeah, that's the thing. And it's like people do. They do. It's remarkable.

Starting point is 01:11:18 And these women did, like these, you have to be such a strong fucking human. Yeah. For anybody who's gone through like abuse like this. And can now live a normal life. Who does? You're a goddamn warrior, so just know that. So in summer 2012, Gina and Michelle's shared mattress got bedbugs. Oh, I'm surprised it took that long. They actually, in her book, in Michelle's book, she said, I'm surprised it took that long. Because he found that, he found that mattress and an alley perfect and it had been I mean at this point It had been stained with like blood vomit

Starting point is 01:11:51 Pee Pee Pee Poope Sweat everything And he didn't do anything to fix it. He was like, yeah, sorry. That sucks and then they were covered in bed bug And Michelle said she she saw them on the bed. So he put a plastic sheet down on the bed in the dead of summer.

Starting point is 01:12:09 Good. Which did nothing. I would have just like this cable on the floor. He would have to sleep on the floor. So that same summer, Michelle talks in her book about a time when he allowed Gina to read a newspaper. And she saw a dress that she thought Michelle would like. So she begged him to buy it for her using the money

Starting point is 01:12:26 He would throw at them after you great them. So he did weirdly and Michelle wore it all the time It was like this color dress that like Gina just was like I know Michelle would like that dress Wow that that's that's Your heart. Yeah, oh my god. So just after 4 p.m. on Monday, May 6th. This is the day. Hey, yo. So May 6th, 2013. Jocelyn is running up and down the stairs saying something along the lines of like Daddy's gone to grandma's house. Daddy's car is not here. So they're all like, huh. So she runs into Amanda's room, her mom's room. And and she's like daddy told me to come up here and stay Uh-huh, so initially no one did anything about it because he again he's done this before

Starting point is 01:13:11 Trustexercise. Yeah, so Amanda was like so I sat there for a little bit and I was like, huh, I wonder so Jocelyn And he is he had also had Jocelyn tell them before that he was leaving and then he would do the thing where he was like. So they were like, yeah, I'm not going to believe this right away. But eventually Amanda was like, I peeked outside and saw his car was really gone. He's left before obviously. But she was like, wait a second, my bedroom door is not locked because Jocelyn just came in here. And it usually was.

Starting point is 01:13:42 So she opened it. She was like, I'm going to walk downstairs. So she walks downstairs. Terror that must have been inside of her. So she's like, what the fuck? So she looks and she's like, I'm going to try the front door. So she tries the front door and it opens. It's unlocked. Oh my God. So she takes a breath, opens it. Oh shit. Between the outside world and that door was one more door that was locked with a chain lock. Of course. So she looks out the window and she's like,

Starting point is 01:14:09 what the fuck am I gonna do? Like this, I'm so close. I'm so close. I'm so close. I have to do this. So she looks out the window in the door because this glass in the door and she sees someone across the street.

Starting point is 01:14:19 So it was Aurora Marty and her two other neighbors and they were directly across the street sitting on the porch, so she does it. She starts pounding on the door and screaming, help me, I'm Amanda Berry, help me, I'm Amanda Berry. My God. Screaming is- I have full bodges. Well, she does this.

Starting point is 01:14:38 She stuck her head between the door and the frame because it was like slightly a jar. And she's waving out the door, like literally screaming as hard as she can. So these neighbors start coming over. They're like, what the fuck? And someone tells her, one of them is like, try to break the glass. Like, the glass.

Starting point is 01:14:54 So she's trying and it will break. Another neighbor named Angel Caderra comes over with a man named Charles Ramsey and they both are like, kick the bottom panel out like that's that's up thinner panel like so they're helping her. They're like they're both kicking the panel too. Oh my god. So after a few like crazy kicks on either side of them, the frame bends. Okay. Amanda manages to crawl out and she can crawl out. Oh my god. And she reaches and then pulls Jocelyn out with her. Oh, so they run across the street to someone named Altagrasha to Hades home. She's called 911 years. Yep. Her 911 call,

Starting point is 01:15:37 she said, help me. I'm Amanda Barry. They said, do you need police fire or ambulance? And she said, I need police. They said, what's going on there? there and she said I've been kidnapped. I've been missing 10 years. I'm here. I'm free now Wows us now. This is the greatest my legs are tingling like my elbows are tingling So Charles Ramsey had also called 911 and was speaking to another dispatcher and His dental one call is hilarious. He said, hey, check this out. I just came from McDonald's, right? I'm on my poor cheat in my food, right?

Starting point is 01:16:13 This is me making this 911 call. This broad is trying to break out of the fucking house next to me. She's like, this motherfucker done kidnapped me and my daughter, and we've been in this bitch. She said her name was Linda Barrier, some shit. I don't know who the fuck that is. I just moved here bro. That's awesome. Like that's just awesome. Check this out. Who doesn't need that? Like you're about to

Starting point is 01:16:41 raise your hand effect and just delight you. Because I'm delighted. Can you imagine being the dispatcher that got that call? Check the shit out Then he's like I don't know the fuck I just moved here and then so the dispatcher said can you ask her she needs an ambulance and she said she needs everything She's in a panic bro. I think she'd been kidnapped so you know put yourself in her shoes. Oh He's like fuck get everybody. I have tears running down my face. It's just that was that's delight Disguise name. That's delightful. Well, so him for president Charles Redsie 2020 So at 5.54 p.m. Cleveland police officers, Anthony,

Starting point is 01:17:26 Espada and Michael Tracy show up. And they're skeptical because there's been hoaxes and they've been here before 15 and a half times. They get closer to her and they're like holy shit that really is a minute very. Yeah. So they were like, they were like, okay, who else is in the house? Is anybody here? What's going on? And she says, yes. So they're like, they were like, okay, who else is in the house? Is anybody here? What's going on? And she says, yes. So they're like, is anyone else in the house? They're thinking, is anyone else in the house like who's your abductor?

Starting point is 01:17:52 Right. And she goes, yes, Gina DeJesus and Michelle Knight. And they're like, what the fuck? And they were like, what the fuck? They hand her a mic and they're like, drop it. Like, drop this right now. And can you imagine that? No. You're like, we just found Yeah, drop this right now. And can you imagine that? No. We just found one missing person who's been missing person,

Starting point is 01:18:08 a missing person for a decade, who was a huge case all over the news, all over everywhere. And now we're like, hey, who else is in the house? And they're like, oh, the other two. The two other main missing girls. Like, what? So Mandatou police that Ariel was around. She was like, she's like, I don't know where he is,

Starting point is 01:18:24 but. And she was like, he's driving a blue 1993 Mastameata. So now an APB went out for this vehicle at 5.55 pm in orders were to grab him immediately if spotted. Yeah. So meanwhile, from Michelle and Gina's POV, they're still in the house. So they heard some of this commotion, but they thought it was a trick. And when the police pounded on the, but they thought it was a trick. And when the police counted on the door, they thought someone was breaking in.

Starting point is 01:18:49 Cause they were like, this is a bad neighborhood. So they thought this was like, like, God, another like cool, now we're gonna die. Yeah, and Michelle says she was like, even after everything, I was like, I'm not dying that way. So they hid. Oh my God.

Starting point is 01:19:01 So once they saw, so they said they, they like heard somebody come in and say like police, what police who's in here. And Gina was like, I want to say something. And Michelle was like, anybody can say police. Like we have to wait. So once they saw the uniforms come into the room, Gina began to sob and like came out of her hiding place.

Starting point is 01:19:21 And Michelle said she ran out from hiding and jumped into the arms of the woman police officer. Oh my God. And wouldn't let her go. She was like, I clamped onto her and was like, don't put me down. I'm crying. Now at 6.04 p.m. Ariel Castro was spotted at McDonald's.

Starting point is 01:19:36 I was, I fucking knew he was at McDonald's. I almost made a joke about it. He was in the car with his younger brother, O'Neal, and police asked for ID and arrested both of them. Once they were brought to police headquarters, police officer. He knows his brother was like, what the fuck? Yeah, because then police also brought in his other brother, Pedro, as well. And all three were brought to Cleveland County, Jalen Book. Oh, did they think it was like a ring or something? They thought it was. The brothers were let go because they didn't. They were like, yeah,

Starting point is 01:20:02 we just wanted a big man. And they actually gave info saying like, yeah, he was super secretive. We've been to the house, but they he wouldn't let us out of the kitchen. Like they were like, they gave him up. And his own son, Anthony, said that a couple of weeks before they were found, Ariel had asked him, he was like, do you think I'm in a Barry's alive? That's so weird. And his son was like, no, I don't. Like, it's been too long. And he was like, and I guess Ariel was like, no, you don't think so? That's so weird. That's so weird.

Starting point is 01:20:29 Yeah, and he said at the time he thought it was weird, but now he's like, oh, that's just creepy. Yeah. So on July 26, 2013, Ariel Castro pled guilty to 937 crimes. Why? Including assault, rape, and murder. Pedro Pled Guilty to 937 crimes. Why? Including assault, rape, and murder. Because all of the murder charges was for purposely

Starting point is 01:20:51 and with prior calculation and design causing the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy. Which I'm like, yeah. Hell yeah. 937 crimes. He got life in prison without parole plus 1,000 years. Yes. Those counts included 177 counts of kidnapping, 139 counts of rape, seven counts of gross sexual imposition, three counts

Starting point is 01:21:15 of felonious assault, and one count of possession of criminal tools. Wow. Now a month later, September 3rd, he killed himself in her general reception center in Orion, Ohio by hanging himself with a bed sheet. Are you kidding me? There were reports that it was during Autororotic of Spixiation. I believe it. I fucking believe it. He did all that shit. And he was found with his pants down. No. But then there was reports from other inmates saying he had lost a ton of weight while he was there. So he was always losing his pants. And he never wore underwear.

Starting point is 01:21:50 So like, it made sense that he wasn't wearing underwear, but like, he's the nastiest. He's disgusting. August 7th, 2013, the House of Horrors was torn down. Oh, yeah, I was gonna say. And they called it like the House of Horrors, because of course they did. Michelle has written two books

Starting point is 01:22:06 Finding me a decade of darkness a life reclaimed and then life after darkness finding healing and happiness after the Cleveland kidnappings Well, both of these books are amazing And they were very instrumental in writing this podcast So I took a lot of her like first-hand account that, but go read those books because they're fucking awesome. She goes by Lily Rosalie. She's married to that name, Del Rodriguez. How? And they said, I think they met when they literally bumped into each other at a restaurant

Starting point is 01:22:38 because she said they were both looking at their phones and slammed into it. It was meant to be. They foster shelter animals together. Stop it. They got married on May 6th, the second anniversary of her rescue. Wow. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:22:52 Which I was like, that's a bad bitch. Because why not make it? Yeah, make it a great day. The best day. Like the best day. She runs a foundation called Lily's Ray of Hope, which is a place to aid and help women who have dealt with abuse and trauma.

Starting point is 01:23:03 Wow. Her son, Joey. Yeah. So when she was rescued, she went straight to the hospital and spent like almost, I think like a week in the hospital because she had been so very, very sick. Yeah. And I mean, like in her job was all messed up and still is because he would punch her in the jaw or hit her in the jaw with a barbell.

Starting point is 01:23:24 Oh my God. Yeah. And so when she got to the hospital, one of the first things she said was, where's Joey? Can I see Joey? Yeah. And this was 11 years later. Right. He's literally like, yeah, like a teenager or something like 13 or something like that. And she said throughout this whole experience, she would write letters to him every day She drew pictures from him every day. He was what got her through everything He was also like the thing she thought about like the darkest moments. Is she able to talk to him now? She said so she was like where's Joey and her lawyer was like, okay, like it's been 11 years So I want you to know like he's been adopted like he was adopted by his foster family There's nothing we can do and they said like his foster family was amazing like he was adopted by his foster family. And they said like his foster family

Starting point is 01:24:05 was amazing. Like he's adopted into a wonderful family. They love that. You love that. Imagine accepting that though. And they were like and she was like, am I ever going to see him again? And her lawyer was like, I don't know because they were like the family has every right to say no. Which I mean, so so here's the thing. So they talked to the family and the family was like, no, we don't want her to have contact with him. I don't blame them one bit because your child is 13 years old. Yeah, all of a sudden having his birth mother be in the picture even after after all this years it could throw a wrench into his

Starting point is 01:24:42 well-being and I understand why they were like, we need to think of him here. Yeah. And what is best for him is him having a stable household. This has been his home. We have been his parents for his whole life. That was probably a really hard decision for them to make. Exactly.

Starting point is 01:24:58 And Michelle says she understands. She gets good for her. She was like, that's really bad, ask of her to be that mature about the situation. I can't say that I would be the same. That is badly as you want to see him and that's your son.

Starting point is 01:25:11 It's better that. And she said she was like, I'm so glad that he has a family and that he was taken care of this whole time. Because she was like, all I wondered while I was in there was what was happening. He's okay. He's okay.

Starting point is 01:25:23 Does he have a family? So knowing that, I think think gave her a little comfort. And then she asked, she wrote them a letter saying like, you know, I understand why I'm so grateful to you for like taking care of my child. Like I know he's your child. Like I understand this. Like that, she's such a big person.

Starting point is 01:25:41 Serious. And she asked them, she was like one thing, and I understand if you say no, but like could I have pictures of him when he was a baby and a toddler and like a child? Yeah. Just so I can see what he looks like, because I last, I saw him was like he was two and a half

Starting point is 01:25:55 for something. So they did agree to send, they sent her pictures. And they do give her updates on his well-being and like, I don't know that. I don't know that well they said that it's not out of the question I think just right now they're not because he's willing to to introduce this kind of thing into the situation which I understand because well it's so horrific to you that's a big thing to introduce to you again so

Starting point is 01:26:19 I think they're going to wait a while and maybe they'll reintroduce it I don't know if they ever will but she kind of understands. Good for her. Everything everybody in that situation made the right decision. Yeah. And handled it the best way that they possibly could for him. Because she was like, I don't even know if his name is Joey anymore. I don't know if they renamed it. We know. So yeah, so again, doesn't have contact with him directly, but here's updates, so that's good. Amanda Berry is still being an awesome mom to Jocelyn,

Starting point is 01:26:51 who is thriving. I was gonna say is Jocelyn okay? She's a fucking teenager right now, and she's thriving. She's going to be like, and we'll just like imagine like knowing now. Yeah, like, oh, and Amanda has said, like she resembles him a lot,

Starting point is 01:27:02 but she was like, but she was like, I don't even care, because she was like, I knew from the second she was born, she's mine. Like that's mine. No, 100%. So she was like, I don't even, she was like, people asked me like, does it bother me? And she was like, it doesn't,

Starting point is 01:27:13 because she's mine. Good for her, another amazing human. Yeah. Um, so Jocelyn's a teenager now. In 2017, Amanda joined the Fox 8 Cleveland News team and she hosted a missing person's segment called Missing. Oh, good for her.

Starting point is 01:27:28 In 2015, Amanda and Gina co-authored a book called Hope, a Memoir of Survival in Cleveland. That book I also used for part of this. The book hit number one on the New York Times bestseller list. Wow. It's a great book, another great book. Gina co-founded the Cleveland Family Center for Missing Children and Adults. From the website, its aim is founded

Starting point is 01:27:53 to deter abductions, exploitation, and trafficking, establish a place for families and survivors to come for support and resources, provide prevention training to the community, and raise awareness to create a safe and resources, provide prevention training to the community, and raise awareness to create a safe and secure community for all citizens. And so they're all thriving, doing amazing, and giving back to the world, and being fucking amazing warriors, and Ariel Castro is still dead,

Starting point is 01:28:19 and hopefully dealing with butthole spiders, all out the bad place. Butthole spiders, that's a thing too. Butth whole spiders. Wow. And I'm hoping he's dealing with some bees with teeth, some butthole spiders. And I think they also had a penis flatener. So I hope they have that too.

Starting point is 01:28:33 Oh, yeah. All three. I hope that, like everything he did to them is happening to him now, but like times a million, thousands of the Jillian. Yes, it is. So I'm really glad that that one's over, because that was, wow. Yeah, that one was a Gillian. Who, yes, it is. So. I'm really glad that that one's over,

Starting point is 01:28:45 because that, yeah, I am too. That was wow. Yeah, that one was a tough one. So we have to go to bed now. We do. Can we watch America's Next Top Model? We sure can. You know what, everybody?

Starting point is 01:28:54 If you need a pick me up, I just want to let you know. And this is, it's been there for a while, but I just realized it. Old-ass America's Next Top Model, which, and it's, stop model which and it's It's a me it's an eye opener. Yeah is on Amazon Prime 2005 was a different world holy shit This shit will ruin you it'll titillate you it'll delight you and it'll affect you what is titillate It'll just get you all like whoa. What's going on here?

Starting point is 01:29:22 Italy you never heard that No, I love it. I love you. I love you. I love you. But yeah, take a trip back in the way back machine and see a time when no one was offended by anything and then get real offended. It was a better time.

Starting point is 01:29:38 There's a lot of shit in there that I was like growing. Yeah, some things I've been sitting on the couch and I've been like, well, I'm offended. Yeah, no, I'm offended. But yeah, go watch that now, because that'll was like growing. Yeah, some things I've been sitting on the couch and I've been like, well, I'm offended. Yeah, no, I'm offended. But yeah, go watch that now because that'll make you laugh. You know, that when I was little, not even little, I was like moderately a teenager almost. I would like practice my America's next top model poses in the mirror because I was gonna try out for that show.

Starting point is 01:29:58 I totally believe that. And they were gonna be like, yes, sweetie. No, no, no. Yes, sweetie. So yeah, go do that and we hope you feel better now that had a happy ending. I guess. No, no, no. Yes, sweetie. So yeah, go do that. And we hope you feel better now that had a happy ending. I guess. Yeah, that ending was awesome. That a great ending. We love it. We love it. Follow us on Instagram. morbid podcast. Hit us up on Twitter. A morbid podcast. Send us a Gmail, but only a nice

Starting point is 01:30:18 one, because if not, it's going in the delete folder. Sure is morbid podcast. Gmail.com. Join the Facebook group. morbid.colon.in. A true crime podcast where all the awesome people are. Check out our website. It has all the information you could possibly ever need about us, our lives and our live shows. Hell yeah. morbidpodcast.com.

Starting point is 01:30:36 I don't think we have anything else. No, we don't. We hope you keep listening. We hope you keep it weird. I can't. I can't, I can't. Just don't keep it so weird that we are forced to say that we hope you're dealing with bees with teeth and penis flateners and buttholes spiders.

Starting point is 01:30:54 That was good. Yeah, bye. No, it's good as yours, but good. Bye. Better. Thank you. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts.

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Morbid - Episode 116: The Amazing Survival Tale of Michelle Knight, Amanda Berry and Gina DeJesus Part 2

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