Morbid - Episode 139: John Wayne Gacy Part 3

Episode Date: May 12, 2020

Finally, we have reached the conclusion of John Wayne Gacy's mad world. Honestly, this dude is a pig and we are so glad to be out of his headspace. In this episode, we discuss how he got caught, his insane confessions and his trial and subsequent imprisonment until his early death. Enjoy and make sure you hydrate. I feel like he's so gross, you should hydrate. Sources: John Wayne Gacy: Defending a Monster by Sam Amirante The Man Who Killed Boys: The John Wayne Gacy Story by Clifford L. Linedecker Buried Dreams: Inside the Mind of John Wayne Gacy by Tim Cahill Killer Clown by Terry Sullivan Thanks to our sponsors! Hunt A Killer Right now, just for our listeners you can go to HuntAKiller.com/morbid use promo code MORBID at check out for 20% off your first box. Head to Stamps.com Right now, our listeners get a special offer that includes a 4-week trial PLUS free postage AND a digital scale without any long-term commitment. Just go to Stamps.com, click on the Microphone at the TOP of the homepage and type in MORBID. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wandery pod or text wandery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. Angie has made it easier than ever to connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Just bring them your project online, or with the Angie app, and answer a few questions. With Angie, you can book instantly at an upfront price, or request and compare quotes from multiple pros, so you can find the best price for your project.

So the next time you have a home project, just Angie that and start getting the most out of your home. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's ANGI.com. Hey, weirdos. I'm Alena. I'm Ash. And this is More Bed. More Bed. It's more bed. Just me and Ash. Hey, yo. Just us. Just the OGs. The OGs of the morbid. But having Emma was a fucking blast, guys. A blast? And not to be like, fan girl 101, but a fucking dream come true. It was kind of surreal.

It was like, whoa. And they're just so easy to talk to. I felt like I was hanging out with a old friend. Yeah, it truly did. Like, I think they were saying at one point that they felt like they knew us already and that we feel the same way about them. So it was funny that it all just kind of clicked

and we were like, oh, we've all just hung out before, right? Like, it was exciting. And it was exciting and it was just fun and it was a chill ass time. It really was. These collabs during quarantine have been so much fun because it's just been cool to connect with other creators and just get different points of views

and it's been fun to kind of sprinkle these in. It is fun, I enjoy it quite a bit. And actually, later this week, we have a second guest for... We do. The show. And I'm sure this one will be easier to guess, but you just never know who's gonna be awesome. It's gonna be awesome.

It's gonna be awesome. And you know, like we've been doing, we're gonna be doing the same, you know, like just the Ashen Eye episodes in between. You'll still be getting the same amount of Ashen my episodes. So these collab episodes are just bonus episodes really. So enjoy. And then actually we're going to be putting out a Patreon episode in the next couple days. I think I'm recording it tonight with a special guest. A very fun one. Yes. Woohoo! Special guest, special guest. Special guest all around. And tonight we're

going to be finishing up the fucking hellscape that is John Wayne Gacy. I'm pretty stoked to wrap it up with him. Yeah, I'm really psyched to be out of this man's psyche and out of his world after this. I'm going to take a step back from John Wayne Gacy and You know, I feel like I smell him now, so I just I need to be away from it I'm excited to not be exposed to his psyche anymore, right? I'm glad not to be giving it to you. So that's thank you The expose in the expose We're glad to be just out of it. Yeah, but no. But no, this has been crazy because I found out some stuff during research that I didn't know. You know, which I always feel like I do.

I always end up finding something that I'm like, well shit. It is fun. But it'll be nice to wrap this one up because this one wraps up in a nice bow. Where we can say bye-bye, John. Bye-bye. And we can say, kiss my ass. How about that? Kiss my ass.

Well, before we delve into the end, the final, the finale of John Wayne Kisset, we are going to shout out some shows. We sure are. So these are being rescheduled, June 2nd and June 3rd. June 2nd is at the Good Night's Comedy Club in Raleigh, North Carolina. And June 3rd is at the comedy zone in Charlotte, North Carolina. We will let you know the rescheduled dates. We just don't have them yet. Just hang on to those tickets because

they will go wherever we go. Yes. October 11th, we have two shows at Talia Hall in Chicago, Illinois. That's going to be so much fun, guys. I'm really excited for that one. July 8th at the Comedy Work South in Greenwood Village, Colorado, which I just found out is sold out. Yeah Colorado, thanks for selling us out. What what? The rescheduled date for the Wilbur is the... I believe it's the 26th, right? It's yeah. It's gonna be in 2021. Yeah, so that's fun. Yeah, so I think it's the 26th, right? It's, yeah, it's gonna be in 2021. Oh yeah, so that's fun. So it, yeah, so I think it's gonna be March 26th, 2021. I believe, I think that's the new date.

You'll be informed of it anyways, but we'll make sure to tell you. And then the 11th of August, we're gonna be in Philadelphia at the Punchline Comedy Club, September 16th, we're gonna be in Washington, DC at the DC Improv, the 23rd of September. We'll be in Nashville, Tennessee to show that Zanies. And last but not least, the 24th of September,

Huntsville, Alabama at Stand Up Live. Alabama. So there we go guys, we're gonna make these happen. We just, we're rolling with it. We're rolling with the homies. I Watch the list the other night. Yeah, such a good show. Such a good show. That actually was a good show. It was a good show at one point. We wasn't really. It was a show. You didn't know it was a show. I did not know it was a show. I'm pretty sure that movie came out maybe the year I was born. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it did. Yeah. So either that or before you were born.

And yeah, it was a show at one point and it had the original amber in the show. Oh, but it didn't have Olesi S. Silverstone. Oh hell no, she wasn't gonna do a show. Well, see that I don't care. But it still worked. The girl who played Sherho Rwitz, I can't remember her name now

and people were probably screaming at me, but she was great. So you always say that I'm just like Sher and Kool-Ace, and actually Annie quite a good review. Oh yeah, I mean I think everybody listening right now, I think can agree that you are a good singer. You know what? I vibe with that, but the only thing that I'm gonna need if I really am fucking Sher from from Clueless, is that computer program to put my fucking clothes together in the morning. Yeah, you should have that. Like, I'm actually sad that you don't. I feel like if anybody does need, like, should have that at their disposal, it's you.

Thank you. I appreciate that. You're welcome. We'll talk to people in Silicon Valley. We'll see if we can... Yeah, I mean, have the computer program. App people out there. What up? App people. So I think on that note, we will just dive right into part three.

Okay. Final part of John Wayne, Motherfucking Gacy. We went from one end of the spectrum to the complete opposite. Yeah, I mean, I think a perfect segue between worlds is sharehore with. I just... I don't know what. Do I keep saying I quite something, something, something? You do. You very much...

Yeah, I don't know if I've been watching like British television or like what the deal is. Yeah, I have. Have you been listening? Have you been watching Downton Abbey? No. It's very proper, I like it. Thank you. Also, just before we start, this gnarly thunderstorm just started where I live.

So this is like perfect timing. Yeah, and as I'm looking outside right now, it's getting like super dark and spooky and I'm assuming it's rolling my way right now. So, you know, I don't know if you can hear the thunder, but it's fucking insane and I'm in the attic, so it's shaking the attic. I love that for you. That's fun.

Alright, well, John Wayne Gacy, let's get it. Well, when we left off in part two, we had left off when he had brutally murdered 15-year-old Robert Pist on his mother's birthday, which was December 11, 1978. The same year, which this is just an interesting little note, same year 1978, before he had killed Robert, he took a photo with Rosalind Carter. Oh, I've seen this photo. Yeah, so he took a photo with the first lady, Rosalind Carter.

He was the director of the Polish Constitution Day Parade, which is like, I guess it's an annual parade and it celebrates the advent of democratic government in Poland. And he was the director. He had been the director for three years in a row. Oh damn. And in order to meet Rosalind and get that photo, he had to have secret service clearance which he received. That is bananas that John Wayne Gacy received secret service clearance. What the fuck? It's beyond words because in order for him to get that, they talked to like later when all this was found out, they talked to this because the secret service got a ton of shit

for this because they were like, you literally led the most prolific serial killer in American history at that point into a photo with the first lady of the United States of America. What happened there? What breakdown of... Because it's not like he was the squeaky queen, squeaky queen, like not a squeaky queen. No he was not a squeaky queen at that point. No he was not a squeaky queen, like not a squeaky queen. No, he was not a squeaky queen at that point. No, he was not a squeaky queen, little innocent boy at that point. No. He had a sawdemy charge on him that he went to prison for before this.

And then like multiple other accusations, not even accusations, they fucking happened. But, well, and when they asked the secret service later, they were like, what happened there? Why did you not? And they were like, yeah, we might not have looked into where he lived before those records. Good. So they literally admitted we didn't check to see where he lived before if he had a record.

So he had that record and they just let him skate by. Which loosely translates into, we didn't feel like doing our job that day. Like, holy shit, the incompetence, that's unbelievable. Yeah. So that's just crazy. Now, going back to after he killed Robert, he said that he stripped him of his clothes

and he stuffed cloth down his throat, because remember, that's like his thing. And he does that, like I said in part two, because he doesn't like that after you die, you tend to leak fluids and that could get messy. So he stuffs something down your throat. So it doesn't come out of your throat. That's awful. Yeah, super awesome. So he went through Robert's clothing and like he liked to put the clothing, which this is really fucked up. He drives a lot of the boys clothing to a salvation army clothing donation box.

Yeah. And he did that with me. I am not shitting you. So he's like, and he'll just, yeah, that's fucked up. Yeah, he's just donating his victims clothing. So people unknowingly could have been wearing this kids. Not only clothing, but the clothing he died in. That's like, well it is worse, but it reminds me of um, was it Ivan Malat, who his girlfriend

was wearing the shirt. There's a photo. Yep, there was a photo of her wearing the clothes, like the shirt, and it's haunting as fuck. But he's dead, so fuck that guy. So, he went through Robert's clothing, he went through the pockets, and he liked to just take things out because as we find out later, John Wayne Gacy loves to keep trophies. He loves to keep things. He was keeping the, I mean, he would keep bracelets, rings, licenses, just anything. He would really just keep anything, and it really bit him in the ass later, because a lot of them were traced back to his victims. So he went through the pockets,

and he ended up finding a receipt from the pharmacy where Robert worked, where he had picked him up from. And it was a receipt for developing film. So Gacy took that and he just kind of put it away. Now, so then he drove to the Salvation Army Donation Box, dumped his clothing. And this is that same evening, Robert's parents went to the Des Plains Police Department and reported him missing.

Okay. Like that night at like 11.30 I believe it was. Because again, this was, he was an honor student. He was a good kid. He was close to his family. This was the wrong, the wrong victim to choose. Not that any of them deserve it, not all. But this was the one that was going to get him caught.

This is a big mistake. Yeah. But he liked to choose, you know choose victims that would be like a lot of these assholes choose. That would be quote unquote less dead, like sex workers and transients and drug addicts. It's people who these assholes assume the police are not going to allocate a lot of resources for, and that their families are probably not going to be looking for them

because they assume they're runaways. But so December 12th the day after Robert was abducted and killed. Gacy's now suddenly being looked at by the police. So very quickly they were like, yeah. He was the last person seen with Robert and he was seen at the pharmacy by plenty of people and He's a known creep when it comes to teen boys, right? Everyone knows he's a fucking creep So he was called on December December 12th and the police were like what do you know about this disappearance? And he was like, I don't know anything about it. Like yeah, I saw him that night, but last night, but I didn't I didn't do anything So Lieutenant Joe Kosenzak was put on the case.

He was only named Chief of Detectives a year before this. So he was like pretty new, but he was like, fuck this guy, I'm gonna get this guy. He was a good guy. Yeah, now Lieutenant Kosenzack actually had a son Robert's age who went to the same high school as Robert and he was like I just felt compelled He was like this is he's like I know you're not supposed to like put it in like personal terms

But I immediately felt like I had to find this kid. Well, and it's like sometimes I feel like it's good to do that because it's like It helps it's like you have a horse in the race, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's like it motivates you because you could put yourself in their parents shoes. You know, I want to find this kid for those, that family. So, so the lieutenant, he checks out the pharmacy, Nieson pharmacy, where Robert was working and where he was abducted from.

And he found out that the place had been recently renovated. Now, who did the renovation work, you ask? John Wayne Gacy Squad. PDM contractors. Good. Yeah, and, you know, as we know, that's John Wayne Gacy's company, that he ran basically to abduct rape and murder young teenage boys. So now he had that connection.

And he finds out from witnesses that Gacy was, that was indeed the guy who everyone saw chatting with Robert that evening and They said he was asking him about a contracting job. He was telling him he could make a money Like they had all people watched this whole conversation Now remember he told his mother he was seeing about a contracting job when he called her on the phone He was like this guy is asking about that. And so this was sloppy as fuck because he's left such a breadcrumb trail to what was going on. People saw him talking to John Wayne Gacy.

They see him talking to John Wayne Gacy about a job. He called his mother and told him, I talked to this guy named John about a job. And then all of a sudden he goes missing. I mean, John, this one went so horribly wrong. Yeah, it was just sloppy as fuck on Casey's end and you can tell that he was getting very big for his bridges being like, I can do this and no one's ever going to catch me. So like I said, Robert was a really good kid, never gave his parents any reason to believe he would run away.

They were just like, no, that doesn't make any sense. So, Lieutenant Kozenzack felt like he was like, this is now my mission. I'm gonna do this. So, he immediately had his detective searching through missing persons reports, and he was like, find similar victims. Because now we're gonna start piecing these together, because he was like, I think this guy did something. So at 9 p.m., Lieutenant Cosin-Zack and three other detectives knocked on the door at Gacy's home. Oh! He answers the door and they're like, hey, we would like you to come down to the station for questioning.

So Gacy is like annoyed and he said he was just like, and he's like, I have to wait at home for a super important call from my mother because my uncle passed away. And so the detectives are like, yeah, you know what, this is about a missing kid. Like we really need you to come down.

And this is really important. And they were like, can you either just wait, you know, take the call later or can you call your mother now and like get this over with so we can take you down. So he's pissed and then he accuses Lieutenant Kosenzak of having, quote, no respect for the dead.

Are you kidding me? This man who is standing in his home, which contains the bodies of over 30 teenage boys rotting under his feet that he brutally tortured, raped, and murdered. Is standing there, telling this lieutenant you have no respect for the dead. And if you picture this conversation like I am, it was probably at the front door, which is literally right over one of the dead bodies. Exactly. And guess what? While they're having this conversation, Robert Pice spotty was upstairs in his attic. Oh my God. Yeah. So they agree finally they like you know what whatever

wait for the call but they were like we want you to come in after the call. So we're going to be waiting for you to come down. So at 11 p.m. that evening, John Wayne Gacy calls the police station back and he's like do you still want me to come in for questioning? And they're like, yeah, get here immediately. You sloppy fuck. So direct. I bet that's exactly what they said.

Get here immediately. You sloppy fuck. So he's like, all right, give me a half hour. Did I just get ready? I'll come down. So one a.m. He still hasn't shown up. So that's like two hours later.

It's like, what do you have to get ready for? Like, just put on some pants and come on over. Well, that's the thing. They're like, what is he doing? Well, what he was doing was he was getting Robert's dead body from the attic, driving it to the Desplanes River, and tossing it in on his way to the police station. Yeah, to go tell them that he didn't do anything.

Now, that fucker doesn't show up until after 3 a.m. And he's covered in mud, like covered. So the detectives weren't there at this point. He was like, I want to talk to Lieutenant Cosin's act and they were like, he's not here and we're not calling him in because you're disgusting. So they were like, no, another two. So they were like, quote, yeah, they were like, come back at the morning, you dumb asshole. So he shows back up at 9.15 a.m. and it begins. So he denies everything. He's like, no, I don't know anything about this kid.

I don't know anything. We talked about a job. That was it. I left. He went home. That was it. And they were like, yeah, that's not what happened. But Lieutenant Kosenzack had ordered background checks,

obviously. And Gacy's came back with all his fucking nonsense. That like the Sodomy charges, the assault charges, all this shit. So when he saw that he had served prison time, or prison time for Sodomy of a teenage boy, his antenna's immediately with that. Like, ding, ding, ding, ding, it's lying. Yeah. So, Colson Zach went to circuit judge Marvin J. Peters and he was like, we need a search warrant for Gacy's house.

And he got an adgin. Yeah. So this is what it gets chorise. So Investigators show up at the home and they begin their search and while this is going on Gacy's neighbor walks over Because he's like, what the fuck is going on? It has to remember Has remember, the neighbors love him. He's a weird guy, but he's a great guy. That's how they all feel. Yeah. So they're like, what's going on at Johns House? So they walk up, the neighbor walks up to one of the police officers and it's like,

what the hell is happening? And they're like, yeah, we're like, we can't reveal to you why we're searching the home, but we're just doing a search. So the neighbor was like, just so you know there's an attic and a crawl space in that house. Like, I don't know if you should know that, because they were like, it's like hard to tell from the plans. And they were like, I don't know what you're looking for,

but like, this two of those places. So the place is like cool. Yeah, so they're like, cool. So at first, they didn't really take it that seriously, because they're not looking for 30 plus dead bodies. They're looking for Robert. Yeah. And that's all.

That's all they think is happening here. They think they're looking for one kid. I know I'm actually glad you said that. Because in my mind I'm like, they're looking for like blood splatter or something like that. And then I'm like, Oh yeah, they're literally looking for a kid.

They're literally looking for this like this 15 year old kid Right. All they're looking for So they ended up taking a ton of shit from the house And what they took was they took his 1979 Oldsmobile Delta 88 his work van for PDM and his 1978 Chevy pickup that he also used for PDM. Okay. So what they also found, and I found a list from this book, The Man Who Killed Boys.

And I will list all these books again. I listed them in the first two parts, but I'll list them again in this show notes. Cool. They found, so what they took from the house was they found a piece of rug that had stains. Now, the rug didn't have stains on top, it was like they lifted the rug up and they could see someone had cleaned the top but it had leaped into the bottle. So they took that section of rug. They took clothing, a pair of yellow underwear, color photos of drugstores, an address book, more than a dozen books including bike boy, Petarasti, Sex Between Men and Boys,

21 abnormal sex cases, tight teenagers. Ew! Yep. The American Bicentennial Gay Guide, and they also found seven porn films. A hypodermic needle and syringe, weed and rolling papers, bottles of pills including volume, a scale, a switchblade knife, a pistol, handcuffs

and keys, nylon rope, 39 inch long, two by four board with holes in it, the rack. A temporary driver's license belonging to Michael B. Baker, one of the victims. Oh no. A main high school class ring with the initials JAS, which we find out who that belongs to later. A driver's license issued to James O'Toole, another victim. And the coup de gras, the receipt from decent pharmacy for the film from Robert's pocket. So just like stuff in everybody's home. Yeah, so, you know, we all have, you know, switchblade knives and, you know, clothing

from dead people in Elangero. Just the casual necessities. And a torture board, you know. It makes us so sad too, like books like that even exist. Like, board, you know. It makes us so sad too, that like books like that even exist. Like, I know. What would you say? One that's like between grown-ups and teenagers, like fuck off. Yeah, like sex between men and boys.

That's horrific. That's horrific. If you wrote that, like, tight teenagers, what the fuck? Like those, and then that's not porn. That's like a whole different thing. Yeah, that's a whole, that's pedophilia. And then it's like, and the list included like the American bicentennial gay guide,

which I was like, that's like a normal book. But it's like, but it's just, it's attributed to him because of the whole like enigma of him saying, being very like put off by being called gay. Right. And also saying he's bisexual, but also saying he's straight at times. It's just a very odd thing. So they also found hair in his vehicles and a cadaver dog was used and hit on the olds mobile after it was given Robert's clothing to use as a scent. Oh wow. So that indicates that he was in there.

They asked Robert's mother about the pharmacy receipt that they found and she said it was likely his girlfriends Okay, so they contacted her her name was Kim Bowers and she said it was hers Because she said Robert had given her his jacket when she was cold a few days before his abduction The page and she said she write it that like hurts my heart. Yeah. And she told police the serial numbers on the receipt and they matched. So they were like, okay, that checks out. Now is time to talk to literally everyone, Gacy knew. So they talked to a lot of people.

All his friends, all his family, all his coworkers, his neighbors, most of them had nothing but nice things to say about him, that he was kind of a weird guy, kind of like an over-the-top guy but in general they were all like yeah we like him he's cool like we hang out he's good he's hard worker all that so they also lieutenant co-sensak also ordered 24-7 surveillance on Gacy now which is very necessary oh yeah so now cops are following him everywhere. And they're blatantly just sitting in his driveway and cop cars like just watching him. I love it. I love it. And he was telling friends that he was being harassed and shit. And it was all like a misunderstanding.

He was telling them, you know, this is going to blow over. They're just trying to pin something on me. It's something, honey boy, some of them believed him. Some of them were like, yeah, this is crazy. You're being harassed. So at this point, Robert's friends and family are really searching for him as well. They were handing out flyers, asking around. And remember, like we said in the beginning, he made the mistake of abducting a kid that had a lot of friends and family

support around him. So they were going hardcore. Helicopters were overhead searching forests in like the river banks. They were on it. Meanwhile, as this is going on, Gacy is unreal because he has hired defense attorney Sam. I think it's Amorante, and he decided to file a $750,000 civil lawsuit against the city of Displanes because he said they were causing him mental anguish in loss of reputation in the community, deprivation of his liberties and loss of his personal property

because they were taking things out of his house. He thought he was going to get out of this spot free. Oh, yeah, he thought he was not only getting out of it, but he was were taking things out of it. And he thought he was gonna get out of this spot free. Oh yeah, he thought he was not only getting out of it, but he was gonna get out of it with money from the lawsuits. Right. And again, he was just going to show what's working upstairs. Oh yeah. And again, he's claiming that he's being harassed and abused.

Right. And he said his one of the things in a lawsuit was he wanted the surveillance and the investigation to cease immediately. The whole thing he wanted it stuff. Oh, of course he did because he was like shit, shit, shit, shit. And it's like what an ego-tistical slice of shit. Like you really think that you can sit here and call the shots after you fucking murdered like 30 something kids. So Gacy starts fucking with the cops that are tailing him. So he'll be doing. He'll drive aimlessly to make them follow him just like all over the place for it with no purpose at all. He probably thought that was so funny to me. Oh yeah, and he does it at all times the night and he's

just being a dick. He also will just stand there and take photos of them and he'll like walk up to them and say weird shit like like he'll, and he'll say very incriminating things, but like do it in a jovial way, because he knows they can't nail him on it. Like they'll say something about like a clown, and I think I say it at the end, but like he says something like, well, clowns can get away with murder.

And like, what the fuck? And then he can't. Yeah, and then he invites them in a lot. He'll be like, yeah, you want to come in and have a say? I'm just like, he's just a dick. And so one morning, he invited Detective Robert Schultz and his partner in For Breakfast. And the two guys were like, you know what?

We'll come in because we want to see what's going on and they're like, sure, we'll come into your house. And Robert Schultz used the bathroom, and he said it was freezing outside because it was winter time. And he says so the heat kicked on, and he said, I'd already smelled in there, but he goes, when that heat kicked on,

it blasted into that bathroom, the unmistakable smell of rotting flesh. Because Robert's detective Schultz was like, I've been to a morgue, I've smelled a rotting body several times. Right. That is an unmistakable smell, and that's what I smelled. And so, but they did. And for him to just invite them in and be like,

yeah, it's fine. Like, he knows that his place smells like death. Oh, it's over the top. Like, over the top. That's crazy. Just like, it's unbelievable. It really is. It's hubris of like, the highest order. It's just like something in's unbelievable it really is it's hubris of like the highest order

it's just like something in his brain was like you can do anything you want to do and you will get away with it and then you also wonder like did a part of him want to get caught I was just going to say that I was literally about to say that because you're asking him to get caught at that point. You really are. I wonder if he was like, I don't know. I wonder if it's like he was in over his head or he was getting tired of the lifestyle he was living. I don't know.

Probably not, but I think that's just like the same part of our brains. I know, I think so. And I wonder if it's like a subconscious part of him. Because I feel like that happens a lot with serial killers. It's like a subconscious part where they don't even know it's active, wants this to end. Because it's like the human part. I was going to say it's like the tiny little human sliver that's left in the

exactly. It's like that hairline of just humanity in there somewhere. Yep. So on the evening of December 21st, in the middle of the night, Gacy drove to his attorney's office, San Emearte. And the police officers followed him. They were like, what the fuck is he doing? So officers Mike Albright and Dave Hackmeister followed him.

And they parked outside the office, like they always do. But they thought this was weird. They were like, why is he suddenly driving to his lawyers? And while they were parked, Gacy like staggered into the office and just started confessing to his lawyer, like just started like spouting. And he was clearly drunk, they said.

I was gonna ask him. And so Sam and Marante comes out and he says he walked up to the officers and he didn't know what to do. And he said he told them, don't let Gacy leave, block his car and do anything you can to stop him from leaving if he tries. His lawyer? And he was like, but he was like, I'm not going to tell you what he just said to me, but

you need to keep him here. Like, don't let him just run. So he did end up leaving. He didn't end up getting in his car, but they didn't let him just leave. They followed him. How exactly? What? But they were like, we can't just, we can't do that. Like we can't just arrest him because you tell me that you want him to not leave. Like we can't do that. You could fuck up like the whole thing.

Exactly. Like that would fuck us up. We could lose all of this. So they were like, all right, we just have to keep telling them like we're doing. So he ended up going to a service station and right in front of them sells pot to a kid, right in front of them at the service station. And then he is asking to get caught, actually. Maybe I take this back. So they were like, okay, so they're like, well, we're not gonna bust him on that

because we need to see what else he does. Like we're not just gonna stop this because he sold some weed. Like we're gonna, we need to see what else he does. Like, we're not just gonna stop this because he sold some weed. Like, we're gonna, we need to get him on something else. So he leads them back to his house and he just goes in the house, gets his dog and brings his dog to the neighbor's house, where he tells them that he needs help taking care of the dog because he needs to figure out this whole thing.

And he says, you know, it's a big misunderstanding. I'm being pinned for something. But my dog doesn't like being alone that much. And I keep having to leave him. So can you please take care of him while I'm doing this? And it's like up. It's always so weird when serial killer because like, I can't think of another instance, but like with animals sometimes they're so caring. Yeah, it's very odd. It's like that's so weird that he was like, my doll. Yeah. He doesn't like to be alone. Yeah, exactly.

Or that he had a dog at all. It's like, because a dog requires a lot of care. Yeah. And I guess the neighbor was like, yeah, sure, John. Of course we will, because again, everybody loves John. We're not like, of course we're going to help you. You're being railroaded, my brother. It's like, they're all just like sure.

So the next morning, Gacy showed up at his friend. The last name is Zarna. I think Zarna's, that's his neighbor. Okay. And he said, I've been a bad boy. Ew, gross, no. And he's looking like shit. He's like, haggard as fuck.

So his friend is like, I, I, like, it was clear something was going on. And he was clearly at a breaking point. So he was like, what do you mean you've been a bad boy? And he's like, so he gives him a scotch. He like slaps him across the face. Yeah, and he's like, you gotta, he's like, sit down on my couch. Tell me what the fuck you're talking about.

So his answer is the end is an ear. And he's like, you gotta, he's like, sit down on my couch. Tell me what the fuck you're talking about. So his answer is the end is an ear. And he's like, cool, cool, cool. And they're like, so what's going on? Like, what do you mean? What are you saying? He's like, they're trying, yeah, he's like, they're trying to pin a murder on me. And he's like, you know, it's all bullshit.

So his friend starts like pressing a little bit and John gets frustrated. And he gets up and walks outside. So he's like, you know, it's all bullshit. So his friend starts like pressing a little bit and John gets frustrated. And he gets up and walks outside. So he's like leaving. So he's like, all right, bye. And the friend said, as he was walking out, he said to him, I thought you wanted to tell me something because that's like, he's like,

I thought you were here to tell me something, John. And then he turns back around, walks back inside, walks right up to his friend and says, I killed 30 people, give or take a few. Like just right out with it. How do you respond to that? Like, so Zarna's like, okay, who are these people that you killed? And he goes, bad people.

Blackmailing me, they were, they were gonna blackmail me. They were bad people. No. That's what he said to him. Wrong, not true. And then he started to cry. So I'd be like, well, that's all for today, John. I think you need to leave.

You gotta dip right out of that house. You gotta go, my friend. You're actually not welcome anymore. Yeah, so 10.55 AM, he leaves his friend's house because now he's just like shell shocked. Like, what do I do with this? And Gacy goes to Michael Rossi and David Kramson. Those are the two guys, the teenagers that like

lived with him at one point, that Doug trenches for him and like spread lime for him at times. So he tells Rossi, now the police are following them all the time so they have like they're listening to him. And he says to, so he says to Rossi, I'm glad you could make it come inside. This is the last time you'll ever see me. So they're police are already like, okay, what's happening? So they, so they talk inside and they all end up coming out of the house getting into a car. This is around 11.30 a.m. and before they leave, Gacy walks up to officer Schultz in his car and said, you know, David Kram is going to drive me to a restaurant. But he's like,

you know, is that cool? Can he drive me there? Like, are you guys cool with that? And the officers are like, yeah, we don't give shit. So they're like, cool, we're going to follow you, though. So they followed them. And David Kram, once they get to the restaurant, gets out, walks up to the police car and is like, Hey, John wants to go to the cemetery to say goodbye to his father. So the office of shows is like, dude, he admitted to killing like over 30 people. Like, like, we're pretty sure he murdered a lot of people or he's at least saying he did. Like, that's crazy. He's probably going to kill himself. Like, they were like, I'm guessing this is what's happening Right, like you might want to get out of this situation right now because this is gonna get bad You might not want to drive him there. Yeah, and so it's like so crams like okay cool cool cool

So he he's like I'm gonna drive him anyways, so he gets in the car with us. It's gonna be a good friend Yeah, he's like you know what it'll probably be fine. We're just gonna go to the cemetery So he gets in the car with them He drives out of the parking lot and immediately he is pulled over by the Des Plains Police Department the Cook County Sheriff's Department and the Illinois State Department of Law Enforcement Division of Criminal Investigations Good because because while all this had happened His neighbor there had called the police and

been like, he just told me he killed 30 people. And they had also been informed about that drug sale that he did, the like pot sale that he did right in front of the officers. Because now that they started having like him admitting to this, him acting like this, they were like, you know what, we can arrest him on that charge, like the selling weed in front of us charge. Let's just do it so we can get him. Right. So they get him, he's arrested.

So it's just, so he gets arrested for the pot charge. They don't have anybody yet. So they're just sitting here, just grasping at what they can. So he was held on a $1,000 bail for possession of a controlled substance because he had the volume. And he was then, and he was also held on the pot. So while he's held there, the pot.

He's held on the pot. He is held on the devil's lettuce. He is held on the wacky tobacco So the police are like You're like that enough being you are being held here for smoking the reefer So well he's held there they go back to his house And they told Casey when they're going back they're like yo We're gonna rip up your floors because and he's like really certain. Yeah, they're like, we're looking for Robert Pist.

We're gonna rip up your fucking floors. So he got nervous obviously because uh, John Wayne Gacy knows what's under his floors. So he's like, okay, yeah, you don't have to do that because you know what? I'm just gonna come clean with you. I did kill a man once, but it was in self defense And he's not under my floors. He's buried in the garage So they were like so you know he was like so you don't have to rip up my floors. It's cool Don't worry about it. Take my like you know what he's like I'll totally bring you to the part in the garage And you can dig it right up and this can all be over and we can just See was something that-

And I'll get off on self-defense. It's totally fun. Yeah, totally fun. So they were like, cool. We'll dig this out. Like we're definitely gonna dig this up, but they were like, we're also gonna look in your crawl space.

He was like, ah! So at 10 p.m. they got the medical examiner, Dr. Robert Stein on the scene. Because they were like- And they're also doing this at 10 p.m. Yeah, and they called Robert Stein like the medical examiner and Dr. Robert Stein on the scene. Because I'm also doing this at 10 p.m. Yeah, and they called Robert Stein like the medical examiner and he's like, cool, sure I'll get out of bed and come look at this because they, and remember right now, they think they are looking for a body. One body. They sing killer. They think at least one. So Dr. Stein, it's Dr. Stein actually aided in the scene at Jonestown.

So he was like a big deal. The Smell examiner. That's pretty nice. And he was legit. So Dr. Stein got all gowned up and they were like, you're gonna have to go into a crawl space. So like get your medical examiner bros, get some gowns and get over here, because we're gonna send you under a fucking smelly house. And he was like, cool, cool.

So he got all- So he got all- Just hate to. He was like super glad I chose this profession. So he got all gowned up. He went into the crawl space when he got there with like his aides that he brought. Immediately they noticed there is some bones

that they believed belonged to one human being. So they were like, cool, we found the human. But they were also like, that is a very old body. Like there is not flesh attached to this body. So they were like, that's not Robert. So everything else was buried. Everybody else was buried. But they were obviously getting suspicious because under there they said the smell was overpowering. I mean, they said they were- I can't imagine. They were like, this did not, this smell did not belong to one body. It did not belong to two bodies and it certainly didn't belong to a skeletal body.

So they were like, what's happening? I mean, I don't know, but you know how about one singular body smells. Now take that smell and multiply by 33 Yes, and then put it in an enclosed hot crawl space That already smells like you're already yeah, gross. It's just the worst of the worst So they decide you know what we're gonna further do this dig in the daylight because we need to be able to see We'll call like this this tiny bones like we don't know what we're gonna into here. So that same evening, while this is all going on,

Gacy confessed to police that he killed 30-something teenage boys. Like he was like, you know what, here it is. He was like, well, I'm here. He tells them, yeah, he's like, you know what, since you're looking in the crawl space, let me just like, you know, a little secret. There's some shit down there. And let me tell you. So he told them, he says, I raped them.

He said, I, he told them about the rope and the handcuffs tricks. He told them about the rack. And he said, he often murdered them by getting behind them and throttling them with a rope or a board. He said, he buried them in the crawl space. And then he said, he dumped at least five in the Desplanes River because of spatial issues. So he said robberpiced was among those who would be found in the river. So he was like he's not in the crawl space. He then told them that again this is when they found out that while Lieutenant, uh, Cozin's act was at his on December 12th, asking him to come down to the police department. That Robert Pist was in the attic. So that must have been a gut punch.

So this was all sounding insane. Because even at this point, they're like, he might just be crazy. Like, he might just be throwing this shit out to like, I don't know. Yeah, but I don't even know. Yeah, but then they're like, then they find out that a tow truck driver named Bob Karpatrick had shown up at the bridge near the Desplanes River on December 12th when he was going into be questioned by the police. He showed up around 2 a.m. because he had to get John Wayne Gacy's truck out of the mud in the snow because it got stuck on that bridge near the Desperate's River. So now they have somebody, a tow truck driver that's confirming the night he was

coming in for questioning when he didn't show up until 3am when he was covered in mud, he was out on the fucking bridge over the Desperate's River covered in mud. So they're like, he did do it. Like this is all being confirmed. Now that afternoon, he was officially charged with the murder of Robert Pist. But they don't have a body. So they're holding him on this. They don't have it yet. Now, he kept confessing. And he's like letting it all go.

It was rambling and crazy. But he is giving times and dates. Like he's giving. But he's very crazy to that you can remember like the specific dates and like the times you know what I mean. Seriously because I don't remember dates or times for anything. So it's fascinating to me that he can do this but he is hazy on names because he just didn't really care about the name. Well some of them he probably don't even know their names. Yeah. And he said

and they were like why did you do this? And he's like, I killed them to keep them quiet. Like they were going to tell what I did. So that's why I did it. And then he also admitted, you know, watching them die makes me sparky bitan, big time. So he then drew a map in a diagram of his property. And he he said this is where you're going to find all of them. Like, and he did a very accurate map.

So they search, they find more of the sex toys, like the dildos that he used, they find the mirrors on the ceiling, and the garage, they find the red light, the porn. I can't imagine walking into all of that. It must have just been a lot to take in. And also, can you imagine the therapy you would need after that? Oh yeah, because this was a really bad scene. Like I understand you're like a first responder and like you've dealt with stuff of the like, but like really not of the like. Oh yeah, I couldn't imagine. And this is an assault on all of your senses because you're like, you're being assaulted

on every level by just the, I mean, it's wreaking of death. You're walking through just like thick air of death up there. And so they also find out that he had sound proof and insulated his garage. So this ended up being like an archaeologist dig, like they were slowly getting pieces of bones, hair, just all kinds of shit. Investigators called in Professor Charles Warren, who is a forensic anthropologist at the University of Illinois, and Dr. Edward J. Pavlik, a forensic odontologist.

Okay. So, they were both like leaders in their fields, and they were there for identification purposes, because they were like, we got a lot of bones, and we don't know if this, how many people they are, and we don't know who they are. So Warren, Professor Warren, found bits of forensic evidence like hair and clothing, small pieces of bone and you know jaws and everything that they could use for blood typing and identification, and then Pavlik found could work with dental offices and any jaw bones to search for dental records to aid in identification.

So that's what they were trying to do at this point. Now Like we said the scene was horrific absolutely horrific the smell was unbelievable and Because they had rotted in an enclosed space together for so long all these bodies the toxic gases being released from their decomposition it was co-mingling with each other in this closed dark space, like moist space, and it became dangerous. I mean, the gases that can be released from there are dangerous and noxious. So they had to wear full hazmat gear. Neighbors and witnesses on scenes that they often would see someone staggering away from the home.

In full gear, pull off their protective face stuff and just vomit all over the lawn or just be sitting there gagging and like gasping for air. Of course. It was like it was just hell. And you're in full hazmat and you're still experiencing a reaction like that. Oh yeah. And like walking outside just to throw up because it's so bad. Now when the news broke it went crazy and families all around the area who had missing teenage boys were sitting there now waiting to see if their son was one of the bodies that was being excavated

out of this house. So the news released a bit of the findings like the high school ring, which had the JAS initials on it. Well, that ended up being John, I can never say this name properly. And I feel that John seeks, that's what being John, I can never say this name properly, and I feel bad. John seeks, that's what it is, seeks. John seeks initials engraved on it.

Okay. His parents were watching when they brought the ring up and said this has those initials, and they were devastated. Yeah, because they were like, that's his ring. And then they had held out hope at this point, and they were like, that's his ring. And then they had held out hope at this point. And they were like, that's when I knew like, he's one of those under there, which I can't imagine being like, my child is rotting underneath this pig's home. And we just have to wait.

Because it's not even like he was murdered. Like, that's one step to get what you could never get past that. But that's one thing to deal with. Yeah. and then to also deal with the fact that he's like you said Been under this pig's house. I can't yeah Just like rotting like a piece of trash under this fucking pigs home Well, he just lives on top of him like that's a whole another like 10 steps of grief. Oh, it's unbelievable And so the picture started to become worse and worse for investigators And so the picture started to become worse and worse for investigators. And the scene at Gacy's home was compared to identifying victims from a massive airline crash. They said, yeah, because it was just fucking pandemonium. And there was so many of them.

So there were also finding bodies stacked closely together in their graves. And investigators were beginning to see that some of these boys were killed like we said in part one or two on the same day or within days, right? And so they and he had called the times when he killed two in one day a double event. You call it that like that was my double event. That's like what Dennis Raider would say. I'm surprised Dennis Raider. It really is That's like what Dennis Raider would say. I'm surprised Dennis Raider. It really is. Fucking Dennis. So they also began to notice that Gacy's DIY map that he drew for them was very accurate. Like he remembered where everything was. And they also said that he had arranged the bodies where it looked like the spokes of a wheel. Like it looked like they were arranged

in a way like they were spokes coming out, like, to whoever, like, say that there was a purpose behind that. He never said there was a purpose, but people on, like, the investigators and professionals on scene, like the medical examiner and stuff, or like, this looks very, like, a very, um, methodical, yeah, like, methodical and just very purposeful.

Like this was done with purpose. So they set out identifying more and they're laying bones and bodies along 30 something tables in a makeshift morgue that was set up. They had several forensic pathologists helping out Dr. Stein. They put together that Gacy tended to like victims to be young teenage

boys on the thinner side, like thinner belts, not like bigger, and they liked light-haired Caucasian teenage boys. So they all did share a similar look. Now, before the Christmas break that year, because this is right around Christmas, they got five bodies out of his home, and one was attributed to him from the Desplains River. So by two days after Christmas, they removed ten more bodies. Six were removed the next day, and on December 28th, my birthday, six more bodies were taken out. So happy birthday.

Twenty-eight bodies were now confirmed to be his birders and he was at this point officially the most prolific serial killer in US history just by this point. It is. But Nannas. And they hadn't even found them all yet. He was already way past.

So that same day they added another one when James Mazzara was pulled out of the Desplanes River with his underwear still jammed on his throat. That's horrific. Yeah. That always like stresses me out. So remember, this is a residential, leave it to be for neighborhood. And so neighbors and lucky lose are just gathering every day to watch dozens of dead bodies being

removed from the some. And you can see footage. I mean it's like horrific. It's just people bringing out like giant body bags and it's clear bodies are just being taken out of the house. I wouldn't even want to live like I can't first of all I can't imagine living next door or across the street or like any neighbor. I don't I wouldn't even want to live down the street or on a separate street near that. For it's, I guess a lot of them started feeling like really shameful of like living near him because they were like we should have known like why did we see a fall? But you can understand why you would feel that way. Yeah, like you would feel like maybe I should have thought.

Yeah, I would wonder why didn't I see anything in my that not like, if I really not observant like that? But it's not your fault. I would move the phone out of Chicago. But this whole thing was a circus. It was craziness. News cameras were everywhere. There were people starting to harass the neighbors.

And that's when people started going into like other neighbors yards and being like, you must have seen something. You must have known like, shame on you for not saying something. And like we all know, like in Dennis Reader's case, his whole fucking family didn't know. I mean, it's very possible that they hide well. Right. So, according to the man who killed boys by Clifford Line Decker, one neighbor said they watched the late one night as news crews with huge floodlights

Like filming sheriffs taking things out of the house and one one sheriff's employee Was taking a body bag out of that or two of them were taking a body bag out of the home and the news people yelled Go back. We're not ready yet and they went back in the house with the body bag and then came back out to be filmed I'd be like, go fuck yourself. No, like this is not a news circus. This is somebody, this is somebody. Yeah, like this is not a fucking show. This is life. Like this is someone's child that we're placing out here.

We're not doing this in takes. Go fuck yourself. Fuck you. So now Gacy already had Sam and Marante on his defense team. And he added Robert Mata, and then on the prosecution side, chief deputy state's attorney, William Kunkel, an assistant state's attorney's Robert R. Egan and Terry Sullivan, one on board. So Gacy was indicted on seven counts for the Robert Piced case.

He was indicted on counts of kidnapping, sexual assault, and decency to a child and murder. And again, the body of Robert had not been found yet. Gacy claimed he threw the boy over the bridge, like we said, but they were doing searches, they just weren't finding him, and now they were getting concerned that Gacy was lying, and that maybe he buried him somewhere, because he was covered up in mud when he came to the police station that night

that he's claiming he's covered. Exactly. And when they looked at the place where he got caught in the snow, they were like it wasn't really muddy there. Like, why was he covered in mud? So they couldn't figure out, you know, any of that, but they were like, you know what, we're gonna have to, we just going to have to keep looking.

So, they were doing like searches in the nearby forests near the Desplanes River, because they were like, maybe he buried them in there. So January 4th, there was a huge service at a local church just to mourn the loss of the missing boys. And it was for anyone to come. So like, over 300 friends, victims, families, residents, members of the community, church clergy, they all came to just have, you know, play their respects. January 8th, seven more indictments for murder came

down on Gacy for a Butkovich, God's-ick, Seek, Johnston, Langdegen, and Mazarah. The prosecution decided they were going for the death penalty at this point. Yeah. Now, they demolished his home on April 10, 1979. They ended up giving pieces of it to people who asked for souvenirs, like while they were demolishing it and taking away. If you asked for a brick or like a piece of it, they would be like, here you go. I would not want anything attached to that brick or dirt or branch or anything. Yeah. It's really, it's one of those, it's like a very morbid curiosity thing to me where I feel very torn on those things, which I understand it. Like I could see why, I could see why you would want it, but not me. Yeah, it's between respecting victims and their families,

which I'm like, you don't want a piece of that, because that's a piece of this heinous thing that happened to this family. And then on the other side, is this weird morbid curiosity I am? I'm always very torn with that. But I think it's good to err on the side of respecting victims' families, personal.

Yeah. So I think there's certain things that are like, okay, for more prepared curiosity to take, but other things, it's like, maybe sit that personally. Yeah. So I think there's certain things that are like, okay, for like more periosity to take, but like other things. It's like maybe sit that one. Yeah. It's a hard, yeah, that's a hard line to rock. So he couldn't even show up for his hearing initially because security was such an issue.

They were worried someone was going to murder him. And he was like, a lot of it happened. And he was only going to have to travel 20 miles. And they were like, we don't think we can protect him for that long. Like literally. That's how bad it was. And so he was housed at Kermack or Sirmack. I'm sure somebody will tell me hospital under 24 seven guard watch. And he was actually the first inmate to receive that kind of security. He collected newspaper click things of himself while there, and kept them in a folder.

Weird. He also found religion. He had Bibles. He said he prayed. Nothing will stay that car. No. I also found out that he was diagnosed with angiopectoris, which is what the heart condition is,

that makes him faint. Because I was trying to find that out last time and I couldn't find it finally found it It's too bad it like never did the full job. It didn't do the job. I know So in April there was a huge windstorm in Chicago and like fucked up a lot of stuff People like died I believe two people died in the windstorm. It was like that. Wow Well the wind may also have had a hand in dislodging something from the water. So a body was discovered the day after,

above the locks of the Dresden Dam in the Illinois River. So a crane operator had seen the body just laying there. And they called the lock master Dan Callahan and he called police and they identified the body of that of Robert Pist. So the wind had dislodged his body from the water wherever he was. He must have been caught somewhere near the shore and had like thrown him somewhere like out in the open, which I'm like, wow, that's like some spiritual shit. I'm not like a very religious person, but I feel like there's something that works together

to make shit like that happen. There's some magic happening there. That was like mother nature doing her job. You can't deny that. Yeah, so his family immediately, I mean, that must have been, because they're always gonna hold out hope, even though it looks like, you know, they, I'm sure they were probably sitting there trying to reserve themselves to the idea that John Wayne Gacy likely killed their son, but you're

always going to hold that little shred of hope. Of course. But once they found his body, they were like, all right, we want to, we want to do something to honor him. So his family immediately founded the Robert J. Pist Foundation to quote, recognize and support those individuals and organizations or activities committed to helping reduce crimes against children. That's awesome. I love when families like do shit like that, they're like, I'm going to make, you know, I'm going to make lemonade out of lemons.

Well, it's a half of the strength to do that in such an awful, awful, terrible situation. Yeah. To make something positive. Yeah, to make something positive out of a really, really negative situation. So January 10th, he entered a not guilty plea LOL. That's Annie's birthday. Happy birthday. Hey, there you go. And this is 79, by the way way they also tried to get him released on bond and obviously that was rejected yeah the judge was like no I even tried like do I waste your time oh these defense attorneys I realize they're doing their job I understand that but knowing what you know it's really frustrating to hear them try to get this guy freedom it's like no he needs to be behind bars they also wanted to try the insanity defense

of course you would hope that he was insane yeah which I think I said that in the first part yeah you did and it's it doesn't look like he was so he was Dr. Robert A. Reifman who is was the director of the Psychiatric Institute of the Circuit Court of Cook County, he said the defendant was mentally fit to stand trial. So his lawyer claimed, his lawyer Sam Anmarante was like, well, he, you know, he drifts in and out of different personalities while we're talking. And like, he blames this personality named Jack for the murders and talking and like he blames this personality named Jack for the murders and he says that Jack's the one who did all this like I think he has multiple personalities like he's just

knew what he was doing. Yeah and they were like yeah no that ends up falling apart later. So during trial he was happy as a fucking clam like totally happy just sitting there like whatever like didn't give a show weird. The only time he ever even like flinched was when they mentioned that they were going for the death penalty and he looked like oh fuck. Like that's the only time that he looked like startled. It became real. But at one point he would like turn around while they were doing jury selection and just like look at the crowd behind him and just like smile at people and he actually tried to hit on a woman's sketch artist who was there doing sketches for like he like started trying to hit on her. Why? She was like no thank you sir. She's like I'm actually busy for the rest of my life.

It's so hard. Yeah absolutely. I'm actually leaving the planet so sorry. Yeah. So the prosecution went hard and went into gruesome detail about the murders. Like they were like, we are going to show you that this is a fucking evil man. Like, I'm sorry, but you're going to hear some shit. So, you got a jury. And they wanted to show. And they wanted to show like the callousness of John Wayne Gacy. That's what they really wanted to show.

This at one point they said, like, because one of the workers at the home was like, if the devil is alive, he lived here. Like, they were literally like this man is the fucking devil. So apparently, Gacy had bragged and they brought this up in trial that when Greg Godzick was working for him before he murdered him, he said,

funny, the kid unknowingly dug his own grave one day. That's not funny at all. Is it that the most fucked up shit you can think of? I mean, that's fucked up. He had this kid dig a trench in the crawl space and he told him he was doing it so he can move pipes into there. That ended up being where he buried him. That's some twisted fucked up sediction. That's so beyond. That's so beyond. And the victim's families all got up on the stand.

They gave like harrowing testimonies, talking about like, you know, that they were walking on the streets trying to find their missing children that like, you know, you, they, just giving all those victim impacts statements that you need. Does planes police detective David Hackmeister recalled that a few days before they arrested Gacy, they said he walked up to some of the people that were the officers that were serving like doing the surveillance on him. And this is when I mentioned this earlier, he said he or I think they were talking about Poga, the clown. The officers were like, so you're a fucking clown.

And he was like, oh yeah, and they're talking about it. And he goes, you know, clowns can get away with murder. And he said it right to them. Hey there, fellow podcast listener. It's Elena. And Ash. And we're taking you back to the days before streaming services. Whoa.

You know when you would come home from high school and it was only a few hours until that TV show everyone was watching was about to come on. Well in 1999, that show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In our podcast with Wondery, the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer, we take it back to 1999. So, get out your knee-high boots and paste that poster of Angel on the wall. It's time to enter the Buffyverse. Some of you avid morbid listeners

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Followed this is actually happening wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to ad free on the Amazon Music or Londony app. And like you didn't think that was kind of come back to Haunt you later. And that got brought up of course and it's in fact they also were talking about how clowns, professional clowns in that area were losing work when this all came out because parents didn't want clowns around their kids because they were like yeah what the fuck. Which I feel bad for like professional clowns of that area because they're like we're not all fucking brutal like we actually just wanted to spread joy to your children.

We literally just want to make your kids happy. It's like that's right, but I get it. Like yeah, I wouldn't I was a parent. I'd be the same guy. But I'm like wow, poor clowns. So uh, catch 22. Yeah. So, uh, Dr. Thomas Alicio, who is a clinical psychologist from Rockford said that Gacy was very bright, very intelligent, and he said that he would probably rank among the top 10% of the population in intelligence. Wow. Which is interesting. And he also said that he said he thought he was borderline schizophrenic. He wasn't gonna diagnose him as schizophrenic, but he said he was borderline. He said, quote, he was a person who on the surface looks normal, but has all kinds of neurotic, antisocial, psychotic illnesses.

I don't agree with that. I know a lot of others are going to ask you that. A lot of people don't, a lot of other clinical psychologists don't. They also, because they brought a ton of doctors and clinical psychologists, because they were really trying to get that insanity defense. So they brought in Dr. Richard Rappaport, who was a psychiatrist and a professional witness for like this kind of thing. And he had been, he had sat in for 65 hours of interviews with John Wayne Gacy, and he said after all that, he said he's not psychologically ill, and he said there is no evidence of brain disorder or disease.

He's just a fucking evil guy. That's terrifying. So they brought in Dr. Leonard L. Heston, who's a professor of psychiatry, and he actually had examined Gacy during his Sodomy Confiction. So they brought him back for this. And he agreed. But like wow. But he was yeah, but he was like, I've seen this guy before. I know what he's capable of. And he was like, he's sane as fuck. He's just evil. That's it was like

redemption for him to be like, Jesus Christ, please listen to me this time. Yeah, like I said it earlier, I say it again. Right. And then they brought who we discussed in part two, I believe, Robert Donnelly, who was the 21 year olds who Gacy, let me remind you, and by the way, trigger warning, this is real bad. Gacy brutally raped him, tortured him.

I mean, this kid took the stand and had to describe that he was beaten. He was assaulted. He was raped to the point of unconsciousness several times. He was Gacy played Russian roulette with him. Oh my god. Is he the one that threw up on the stand? No, that's Jeffrey Rignal. Oh, okay. They bring him back up. But and they use that he used an array of different sized dildos on this poor man. They had that gacy held his head underwater in a bathtub until he passed out. Finally dropped him off in an alley after all of this and told him not to go to the police because he was like you won't be believed anyway. And that happened. And he went to the police and he wasn't believed, so cool.

And while he was on the stand, he broke down several times, and then he started to scream, this is hell, this is hell. Like he literally was. And when you see the physical reactions that are happening from his survivors, you're like, what is that house? Like that house, what happened in that house must be beyond what any of us can conjure up. Because this poor kid is literally

like this 21 year old kid, like normal adjusted kid, after what happened in that house is sitting there screaming and sobbing and saying, this is hell, this is hell. So, it's your absolute worst nightmare, times a million, this is hell. That is your absolute worst night. Maritimes a million. I would truly is. And this is when they brought Jeffrey Rignal onto the stand.

And he told his tale about being raped. And he's the one who said that somebody else was in the room. He believed. Oh, I was going to ask you that. I don't know if it was the boy that testified before. Yeah, this is, and he's the one who said, I mean, he had the same kind of stuff done to him. He was put in the rack. And when he was on the stand during this, this is the guy who ended up throwing up on the stand.

And they had to recess the jury. They had to, they literally had to like carry him out because he was like absolutely falling apart. That's awful. Yeah. So then they brought Dr. Arthur Hartman, who is the chief psychologist of the psychiatric institute of the Cook County Circuit Court. He went on the stand and he was like, you know what? I think that John Wayne Gacy totally understands what that his actions are wrong. He totally understands what he's doing. He is saying, but he goes, I think he is psychotic and I think he's sexually deviant. Yeah, so he said, and he was saying basically,

he has a personality disorder. He does not have a psychological illness. Like there's a two very different things. And he said, no one's because they were trying to argue the defense was trying to say he had a psychotic breaks every like temporary insanity every time he killed someone that's basically what they were trying to argue that's very the psychiatrist 33 times well this guy was like no one suffers from 33 moments of temporary insanity to this level like no one does that that. So he said, he also said, I sat with him, he did the fucking multiple personality thing with me. It's fake as fuck. Like he was like, I can spot that a mile away. And he was like, what do you think? Well, that's it. He was like, what people don't understand is they think that they know what multiple personality disorder is.

So they think they should just fade into different personalities and that we're going to be like, whoa, you really have it. And he's like, but what people don't understand is that people who legitimately suffer from multiple personalities, they don't remember the events when another personality takes over. So they would be like, oh, that was Jack. I don't know what Jack did. Right. Because I'm not Jack.

Like I'm John. And I don't, I don't recognize what Jack did, because I'm not Jack. Like I'm John, and I don't recognize who that person is. But when John Wayne Gacy is telling everybody, well, Jack did this. He's going, well, then Jack took the grot and he did this, and the Jack raped this boy and Jack did this. And he's like, well, that's all well and fine. But you wouldn't know what Jack did. Because if Jack took over control of your body in your mind,

you're not you. So I would John know what Jack did. if jack took over control of your body in your mind, you're not you. So I would John know a jack did. He wasn't there. He's like, you can call yourself jack, but still John. Well, and that's I think the jury was like, oh shit. I think that's when it made it very clear. Like, it's very easy to fake multiple personality disorder, but it's very easy to spot when you are trained for it. And he was basically being like, he should have read more about it because he did the classic fuck up with it. He's like, basically all around this guy sucks. Basically, he's a fucking idiot,

even though he's really smart, but that's not. Anna Fraud. So, so that jury went for deliberations for two hours. Only two hours. For a murder conviction, though, of this magnitude two hours only two hours for murder. Conviction though of this magnitude two hours is not a long time. Yeah. Um, they came back and found him guilty.

And when he was let out of the courtroom, he smirked and winked at the deputy sheriff as he was let out after being charged with after being convicted of 33 murders. Yeah, he just doesn't give a shit. Also, they were thinking initially of trying to do separate trials for each victim, but they were like, it's going to cost a shit ton and we just want to get, and I think the victim's families were like, I just want him to sober with. Yeah, we don't want to sit through all this.

Now during sentencing, um, Kunkel for the prosecution said, quote, that John Wingase was, quote, competent, he was a skillful torturer and a murderer. And then he said, quote, if you allow this evil man to walk this earth, then God help us all. Because he was telling, yeah, he was saying, do the death penalty.

Right. And then he said, quote, if this is not an appropriate case for the death penalty, then there is no death penalty in Illinois. This is a case that cries out not only for the voices of 33 dead, but the voices of 33 families. But yes, the voices of every single citizen of the state. And that voice says, John Gacy, enough, enough. So they had two more hours of deliberation

under two hours of deliberation for the sentencing came back death penalty for John Wayne Gacy. Good. Now he went to prison, he seemed to be fine in prison, he painted a lot, there's a lot of John Wayne Gacy art floating around in the world right now. He painted clowns, right? He did paint clowns. He would paint a lot of like self portraits of himself outside of cloud makeup and also as Pogo. He also did a lot of weird Disney like paintings like the Seven Dwarves and like that's like Ed Kemper reading like children's books. It's very strange. Yeah. And you know, I think like two business guys bought a bunch of his paintings at one point just so they could buy them an auction, do like an auction

to raise money for the victim's families just so they could destroy them. Like they paid a shit ton of money for them just to destroy them. That's incredible. It's like cool. Yeah. And but you know like you can, they there in a lot of places He would also answer like surveys and stuff like where you can find We'll try to post a couple if I can find them Because his answers are very strange to some questions But July 14th, 1980 Artists and professional and renowned facial reconstructionist Betty Pat Gatliffe

Reconstruction and renowned facial reconstructionist Betty Pat Gatliff, reconstruction, reconstructed the faces of the unidentified victims, because right now there's a lot unidentified. So she painstakingly reconstructed these, and they were like beautiful bus of just all these boys. In the Cook County Medical Examiner, Robert Stein, who was part of the case, tried to convince, so they did a press conference where they unveiled all these and were like does anyone know who these boys are? And they were wondering for a while like why more families hadn't come forward. They were like, why do we have all these unidentified boys? I mean, they're teenagers.

And they were like trying to figure out if you know, usually missing kids of this age, they're gonna have a family. It's cleared up right away. Yeah, so Dr. Robert Stein went on this press conference and he tried to convince families to come forward because he was like, I think he was basically like, I think they're not coming forward because they think that their kids were associated

with Gacy somehow or associated themselves with Gacy. And it had a lot to do with like, you know, the gay lifestyle. I was thinking that. They were basically like, we don't want to admit that our boys were possibly getting into some like sexual thing with this older man. They might not have been, but that doesn't mean that all of these people were. Well, and that's the thing. So at the press conference, Dr. Robert Stein said, after they unveiled the faces, he said, quote, there is no evidence that an individual child here participated in any sexual deviate

practices. Yeah. So he was trying to be like outwardly like, we think these kids were abducted. Like they, please do not think that your child's had anything to do with this and like, please come forward because we wanna identify them. We claim your child. In Robert's Dine actually was like such a fucking

like champion for these kids. He sounds like it. He made it his duty to identify these boys. Like, so there were nine donated brown caskets that they used for the boys for the unidentified remains. They put yellow mums and daisies in a semi-circle outside Abby Chapel of Oak Ridge Glen Oak Cemetery. They had a service with nine, or I'm sorry, they had a service for the nine unidentified victims, like a full service. And then each one is buried in a separate cemetery with its own,

it had its own graveside service, each boy, like they made sure to make it, he wanted this to happen. And they each got its own marker that say, quote, we remembered. each got its own marker that say quote, we remembered. Wow. So they don't want, and then he's quoted as saying quote, I don't wanna see you go to your final resting places as just numbers. Yeah, which it's like great. What a fucking guy.

Like you're just really touching. That is a death investigator. Like that is what a medical examiner should be. Like that is your whole job is to fight for someone who cannot fight for themselves anymore. Like that's your whole job. And that's just to see him be like, I'm gonna fight for these kids not to have to go

to their graves unidentified forever. Like they will not be, this will be the final place. It's like you're such a badass. And what's awesome is some of these boys have been identified. So I'm going to skip ahead and then I'm going to go back to the fun part about John Wayne Gacy dying. So because I want to skip forward and just say some of these boys were identified as a result of this hard work. So November 9th, 2011, DNA identified 19-year-old William George Bundy. So he was identified through DNA.

July 19th, 2017, DNA from a brother and sister identified 16-year-old victim Jimmy Haconson. So they gave their DNA. it was able to match up with the DNA they collected and they were able to identify him. So they have two more identified. So that's huge. Now, going back, so Gacy's in prison, he's paint and fucking portraits, he's talking to people,

he's being a dick, he's claiming that there was accomplices that he didn't do all this by himself. He's trying anything at this point. So on May 10th, 1994, at age 52, he was executed at 12.58 a.m. at Stateville Correctional Center. His last meal was 12 deep fried shrimp, a bucket of original recipe chicken from KFC. I'll never eat it this way. French fries in a pound of strawberries, a pound of strawberries. Yes. And his last words, kiss my ass. Those were his last words. What a jam. What a fucking jam. What an absolute upstanding member of society. Gacy keeping it classy till the very fucking end.

Like, good riddance. So, yeah. So, I think the last thing I just wanted to mention was the accomplices thing because that is a thing that has been floating around. I don't think so. I mean, if he had accomplices, maybe the teenage boys didn't know what was going on, but had an idea and maybe just dug trenches for him because they were like, we don't want

to die. Yeah, I don't know if he had. But Jeffrey Rignal does say that he thought somebody else was in the room. What do you think about that? To me, I can't discredit that. If he thought he saw someone in the room, it's like thought somebody else was in the room. So that is, to me, I can't discredit that. If he thought he saw someone in the room, it's like, maybe someone was in the room. Here's my takeaway. I think he's like trying to say that he had accomplices in the murders.

I wonder if the accomplices were like people that joined, like they thought it was like some kind of sex ring or something like that. Yeah, but they were in the murder. That of sex ring or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. But they were involved in that. That's what I wonder. I wonder if they were involved up to a point and then he took the final plunge because

he was very open about the fact before. He did a Ted Bundy. He switched his tune and then all of a sudden was like, what? I don't know anything about this. You're like, fuck you dude. They were found in your house. Already said you did. Yeah.

And they were all found in your fucking crawl space. Like get the fuck outta here, dude. To like no one just crawled into your house and buried all these bodies. Like get out of here. And he'll have you believe that. He will have, I've seen interviews with him where he's like, yeah, I came in and Michael Rossi and David Kram

had just murdered this kid and I was like, what's going on? And then I left and then I came home and he was gone. They must have buried him in my crawl space. And it's like, are you seriously trying to think? You really think people are gonna believe that. You dumbass. But he did.

You absolutely believed that. For a real smart guy, you're real dumb. So, he just thinks that everybody else is dumb. Yeah, I think that's what it is. So there is one that does raise a big flag. The murder of Robert Gilroy. Gasey was in Pittsburgh when Robert Gilroy disappeared on September 15, 1977, and it is confirmed by plane tickets.

So that's something that's that he was found in the crawlspace, but yeah, I don't know. So there that is that to me says, did he have an accomplice for the abduction part like to somebody that maybe these teenagers help him lure other teenagers, or maybe that's how it happened then when he came home he murdered Robert Gilroy. But do you think somehow the Pittsburgh timeline just got fucked up? I don't know. I don't know if it got fucked up. I think maybe... I don't know. I really don't. I think he's the main... the main guy, but maybe he intimidated some teenage boys around him into helping him get people into his grasp. That's what I think.

It's very eerie. It is. But that is the sort of tale of John Wayne Gacy. You did a wonderful job. Ooh, that was a doozy. Sorry these are so long guys, but I, you know I can't, I can't do it, I can't do it. Oh wow, we're almost done in an hour and a half, wow. Sure are. That felt way faster.

I was like, oh, that was really good. It did. 40, five minutes. Yeah, it did, it felt really fast. That was weird. Damn. Time flies when you're doing this. 45 minutes. Yeah, it did. It felt really fast. That was weird. Yeah. Time flies when you're doing this. When you're really grossed out and horrified. Yeah, but I think before we leave you, I think we want to just say thank you to some Patreons because this episode is basically sponsored by them.

Yeah, so that's the truth and thank you. It is. I'm so sorry if I messed your name up. I want to say, I'm going to say, Ton Fernandez. Ton Fernandez. It's T-I-A-H-N. T-I-H-N.

T-I-A-H-N. Yeah, Ton, Ton, T-N, T-N? Ton, I literally didn't hear a word you just said. You know what? I like the spelling and I wish I do had a pronounce it. And... Yeah. But it's awesome and you're awesome.

You're the best. Next is Madonna named Allison. Allison, so hot right now. And then Glory Creed. Glory Creed, thanks for making this episode possible. Yeah, Caleb. Raib. Thank you. Caleb Raib Thank you Ashley Colpit. Thank you. Ashley Colpit. You're the best Murphy nobles, which is like a really cool name and also you have great hair in your picture. So thank you

Murphy that's a great name. Thank you for this episode. Thank you for this episode. Next name is so pretty. Rosemary Watson. Ooh, I love that. Rosemary. Rosemary, thank you so much. Thank you. Another Madonna, Stephanie. Stephanie, so hot right now's the hot right now. Next up is Caitlin Ward. Ward Ward Ward. Yes. I thought it was weird. I was like Caitlin Ward. I know I realize it sounded like that. Thank you Caitlin Ward. Next is I'm sorry if I fuck your name up. This is a Madonna McGrief, I want to say? McGrief. So hot right now. Thank you. And that is all the Patreon's that this episode is brought to you by.

We couldn't do it without you guys. We appreciate you so much. And you'll have a Patreon episode coming out this week, so stay tuned for that. I've been deep-diving into a very really intricate case. Yeah, so hold on to your butts. What, what? In the meantime, you can follow us on Instagram. At morbidpodcast. Follow us on Twitter. A morbidpodcast.

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Do it, Spotify. We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you try to pretend to have multiple personality disorders and then the multiple personality disorder guys like, ah, that's not right, Jacket or John or whatever your name is. And it's just like, you can't really lie about everything. And don't keep it so weird that you get a pound of strawberries at once

because I feel like that's probably not normal, especially if you eat original recipe chicken and shrimp with it and whatever french fries, like that's just not good. And don't keep it so weird that your last words are kissed my ass because that's actually pretty disrespectful and you shouldn't say that. Bye! Roode! I also feel bad for the person who did his autopsy if they did it because that's a stomach.

Yeah, that's some stomach contents. That's something. Anybody that was associated with him in any way, I'm so so sorry. Me too. So bye, bye. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.

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