Morbid - Episode 224: The Mysterious Murder of Julia Wallace Part 3

Episode Date: April 12, 2021

The third and final episode to wrap up our series on William Herbert Wallace is here!!! In this part Alaina walks us through the bonkers murder trail. The prosecution stays leaping to conclusions and the defense tries their hardest to defend their guy, but you’ll have to listen to find out the verdict! Court Transcripts! https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.220695 The Killing of Julia Wallace by Jonathan Goodman The Man from the Pru film about the case! As always, thank you to our sponsors: HelloFresh: Go to HelloFresh.com/morbid12 and use code morbid12 for twelve free meals, including free shipping! Gabi: Get a better insurance with Gabi!!  Go to Gabi.com/MORBID.  Simplisafe: Go to SIMPLISAFE.com/morbid today to customize your system and get a free security camera Betterhelp: This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp and Morbid listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/Morbid Babbel: Right now, when you purchase a 3-month Babbel subscription, you’ll get an additional 3 months for FREE. Just go to BABBEL.com and use promo code MORBID See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's ANGI, or download the app today. Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is morbid. Woo! So sorry that this is coming out a little later than we intended. We had some technical catastrophes, have you? You would think that like three years in these things wouldn't happen, but for some reason the file I think just destroyed itself.

Yeah, it was like, nope, we're not done. But you know what? I'm excited to do this again because it's a fun episode. It is, it's a good one. Honestly, no joke I could have made this like 16 parts. I know she said that the other day, she was like, I think we were like making dinner or something. I was just punched a lot top. And I was like, I'm glad that you didn't. Yeah, I literally could make this its own separate podcast. I'm pretty sure like by itself. There's just so much. I had to

stop myself from just including everything because I found the actual court transcripts. You would. Online and I'll post them in the show notes because you guys, you gotta give them a little look. See, I promise you, they are fun reading. Oh, I bet. I didn't include everything here for that purpose so you can go listen or go read them in. There is just, I mean, the defense attorney, in my opinion, was just the sauciest. Oh, I love them. We love a saucy attorney. I love her.

Because he was right and everything he said. So when he gets real saucy and he really takes down McFail, we're gonna see Dr. McFail. McFail finally fails. Yeah, Professor McFail there. And he's just not taking any shit and it's real fun to watch. But I also just read an email that said if it's spelled mcphil then

it is indeed McFail. Oh yeah, that's not how it's spelled. But that's fun. The woman who wrote the email was like, that was my ex-husband's last name and you are correct. It is so like that. I love that. It's actually like, A-L, not A-I-L. So, it's mixed all, but whatever, but it's mixed all in reality. Yeah. So when we left you in part two, William Herbert Wallace had just been arrested for the murder of his wife.

I'm honestly pissed about it. I don't think he did it. I was pissed about it as well. I was really angry. And this was after they had done numerous tests to see what time he had gotten home, what time he had left for men love gardens eats. Quote and quote tests.

How long he would have had to commit this crime and also clean himself up, clean the rest of the house up and then get out of there and be seen by someone at the time he was. We had a milk boy, Alan Close, who was 14 years old, who originally was like, oh yeah, I saw him at a quarter to seven. And then suddenly the police get a hold of him, keep him in there for like three hours, and suddenly comes out and his story is totally changed.

Weird. And all the other kids that he had this conversation with who also had seen him at various times and could corroborate the original time, they don't bend, which I love. Those kids are like, nope. Alan said, quarter to seven, like they are not bending to the police. They're starting a revolution.

These kids, I was like, hell yeah. I love it. And they're all like newspaper boys or girls. They're milk boys or girls. They're dairy, newspaper boys or girls, they're milk boys or girls, they're dairy boys, boys or girls, they're baked goods. You know, they're all just like, they're all baked goods.

They are literally muffins. They are a jelly donor. No, they're just like these kids who are like, actually working these jobs, like delivering stuff. And they're just like this, I just like picture them. I'm like, can we have like a movie

or like a mini series just based on this like This just group of like yes just rebellious milk kids I think that we already did and I think that was recess on Disney. I think it was You know what we're just gonna we'll take charge of that by the way that's on Disney plus and please go watch it There you go. There you go. That's how my mind works Well, and also when we left you, so Wallace had been arrested and Perry there, the guy who he worked with who was a pretty good suspect, but nobody was looking into the body baseball bit. John Parks, the mechanic, who found that mid, had told his boss, you know, this is what I found. This is kind of strange.

I know he they know each other. Right. The boss had said, you know what, if Wallace is arrested, you need to go forward with that information to help him out. When he was arrested, John Parks went to the police with that information and the police said, that's cool. By end. And that was it.

They were like, nothing happens. No, nothing happened. Nothing happened. Didn't look into it at all. Can you imagine? This guy's like, yeah, this guy came in right around the time that Julia Wallace was murdered and really wanted me to clean his car at midnight.

And I found a lot of blood and they're like, okay. Yeah, thanks for the info. Thank you for that. We're not gonna write that down or anything. We'll put it in a file. Yeah, see you later. Maybe. Like, okay, thank you for that help.

They just never look, we'll never know why that baseball met was bloody or who's blood That was I think that was Julia Wallace's I think so too Well, and imagine if they had tested it and it was that would literally just like case boom case close Case close, but they wouldn't have gotten for some reason they were just hell bent on getting sex-feigned opium addict mad scientist Satanist. Did you see... William Herbert Wallace.

I've shared the morbid podcast meme, somebody made this hilarious Instagram page. Oh yeah, Instagram page is so funny. I gotta pull it up, they made an edit of William Wallace as a badass like, Oh my gosh. Oh my god, as you talk, I'll show it to you. See, these are the things about the internet,

that I'm like, oh my god, they made another one. This is what I'm screaming. Oh my god as you talk I'll show it to you. See these are the things about the internet that I'm like oh my god They made another one I'm screaming. Oh my god live reaction to the one that you just made morbid podcast memes morbid podcast memes You are a treasure. There's another one though here. Look at this. This one's my favorite I like the one you did with the fire and the money and the First of all you got to follow that page because it's hilarious. They do an amazing job and also we'll try to post the photos, repost them because they're too good not to share. I'm screaming. So yeah, we'll get more into that whole thing later but let's bring us to February 3rd. We're moving quick because they just arrested them. Now Wallace is going to be seen in front of a magistrate.

Okay. People say, no, this is how it all goes. Because England. Now the prosecuting solicitor at this time was JR Bishop. He gave his opening statements and they included 18 untrue statements. Yep. How is that allowed? They counted 18 pieces of misinformation

in his opening statement. Wow. And it was just fine. Now, that'll usually lead to a mistrial. Yeah. Now, in the killing of Julia Wallace, they lay out all 18 of these and they actually come back with rebuttals for them.

So I really, really suggest you read that book. I'm telling you, you won't be able to put it down and you will understand why this case could have been 16 episodes about. Oh yeah. I had really gone, but I really want you to read the book because the research that person did, Jonathan Goodman, I think it is.

Shite, hold on. Shite. I want to make sure. I made sure it is Jonathan Goodman. That was right. He better make sure. I just wanted to give him his proper, his proper do. So he did amazing research

and I think you definitely need to give that book a buy and a read. Hey, so I'm gonna lay out eight of those misstatements because they're just too much. Yeah, I was gonna say, I need to give you at least one or two. So one of them is he said that he was seeing that Wallace was seeing close to his home around seven,

but no, false. Close to seven, he was seen two miles away. Right, he was seen, like witnesses said that. Another one is he said that the call from Qualtrow was confirmed to have come from a booth, a phone booth, two to 300 yards from Wallace's home. Nope, it was 400 yards, they confirmed that. Wow.

So already it's like, dude, these aren't even like, what do you do? That doesn't even matter that much. Just confirm it. He also said, quote, it would have taken him just as long to get from that call box in time to reach the cafe where he received the message. As did time elapse between the time the message was received and accused arrived at the cafe. Now that's just untrue. They never, ever even attempted to see if this was true.

Like no tests were done to confirm that. So this was literal, just bullshit. He made up on the spot. Right. Like he just said that statement. Like I was fact. No one looked into that. There was nothing that said that.

Good. He just made it up. We love to hear that. He also said they confirmed that the Qualtro call was two different voices. Somebody used a different voice when they talked to Gladys and a different voice when they talked to Beatty. Right. That's not confirmed.

It's just that the two of them said that they heard that they described a different voice. But that's not confirmed. No. No one's confirmed that two different people or two different voices were used. Well, realistically, we have a track down culture so how would you confirm that?

Exactly. So you can't say that that's confirmed. If you wanted to say they think this, they described the voices differently, that's fine. You cannot say it's confirmed. It was a different voice. Right. Like who confirmed that, brother?

Then he also said, quote, then he says that on arriving at his home, he went to the front door. That is a curious fact, as he said later, that he was always in the habit of going in by the back door. Nope. That's not true. He said he went to the front door whenever he stayed out late. And during the daylight, he went to the back door.

Listening skills are taught in preschool. Honey. Honey. So like, he didn't say that. Like, that's his thoughts. No. Then he also said, quote, it is a curious thing that the accused

having gone into the house, asked his neighbors to wait in case there was anything wrong. Nope. The Johnston's insisted that they stay themselves. He did not ask them to wait. In fact, he told them, no, no, you go. He did not ask them to wait. So that's false. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondery's podcast American scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in US history. Presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud.

In our newest series, we look at the Kids for Cash Scandal, a story about corruption inside America's system of juvenile justice. In Northeastern Pennsylvania, residents had begun noticing an alarming trend. Children were being sent away to jail in high numbers, and often for committing only minor offenses. The FBI began looking at two local judges, and when the full picture emerged, it made national headlines. The judges were earning a fortune, carrying out a brazen criminal scheme, one that would shatter the lives of countless children and force a heated debate about punishment, an America's criminal justice system.

Follow American scandal wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wonder App. Hey there, fellow podcast listener, it's Elena. And Ash! And we're taking you back to the days before streaming services. Whoa! You know when you would come home from high school and it was only a few hours until that TV show,

everyone was watching was about to come on. Well, in 1999, that show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In our podcast with Wondery, the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer, we take it back to 1999. So get out your knee high boots and paste that poster of Angel on the Wall. It's time to enter the Buffyverse. Some of you avid morbid listeners already know what we've gotten store. Hey, Lennos. Join us as we sway our way through Buffy's drama,

action and romance, episode by episode. Slacy, follow the rewatcher, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Dan, Yeah, what a what a vision that just made my mind what a beautiful visual right so he said quote for some reason He wasn't wearing it later in the day, but he was wearing that earlier in the day and he made it seem like huh So he was wearing it earlier in the day, but for some reason he wasn't wearing it later Well, he answered this directly. Yeah For some reason, it's not correct.

It was former, right? He said he wore it before lunch because it was raining and cold. Later, it warmed up and stopped raining, so he didn't need it anymore. He went as far to say, I put it on a hook in the hallway, and then I put on a lighter, fun-colored coat. Yes, get it with your fun-colored coat. So this isn't a for some reason. No, no. He gave you the fucking reason.

You have it on record. Read. And then he said, this last one I'll say is, quote, in the bathroom of the house on the first floor, there is a water closet. And on the top rim of that, there was found a blood stain, which there is no doubt at all, was of the same period of time as the murdered woman's death.

Ooh, who said that. Who said that? Who said that? It was only confirmed to be human blood. No. It was absolutely nothing else that said it was out there from that, or even her blood. You know what I want to say to this guy? Why are you always lying?

Why are you always lying? Come on. Bishop, shut the hell up. Isn't your job the truth? It's ridiculous. So Wallace only responded, I am absolutely innocent of these charges. Because what else is he gonna say?

They're not gonna listen to him anymore. Well, he probably doesn't wanna say too much anyways, cause they like twist what he says. Yeah. So Wallace hired Hector Monroe as his lawyer for the defense during this. At least that lead. Good choice, that's not. It's a good choice.

So his defense team really did the damn thing for him. And Monroe was like the lead defense attorney for this moment. Monroe actually went around himself to Wallace's neighborhood, talking to everyone, to try to get anything to tell him there was a sighting of Julia Wallace after the milk boy saw her. Right. Of course, eventually, James cared who was the guy that he did chess with. He was one of the guys that was there when the call happened. He walked home with him that night. Yep.

James cared had a son. His son named Kenneth said that he had met with Alan Close, his son, and he said, yeah, he told us that he saw her at 645. Like, he said that to us, that is for sure, none of us got that wrong. So Monroe talked to Kenneth, and he confirmed it to him. He said, my memory is very clear of this. He said, I came home and told my mother, that's how clear it was. Right. So no doubt. And he said there were a few other children,

like we said, that knew this and had heard it too. That sucks, because then those people probably started to feel crazy. Exactly. And so in he's telling this to Monroe, the defense attorney, because he's like, yeah, we want to help. Like, we're trying here. These were the kids, obviously, that we're talking about it before we talked about it in part two. Yeah. So we tracked them down. They all agreed. And remember Douglas Metcalfe, he was one of the kids,

and he was actually the one to be like, Alan, you have to go to the police with this. He was like the one that was like really pushing that. Yeah. Well, Monroe went to talk to him. He confirmed it again. What I saw and what I heard, I will not go back on it. Good.

And he said, I told him to go tell the police. That's how much it rings in my head. Yeah. Now what he did say he gave he gave an accurate description and he said on the night of the murder I was in the parochial hall in Richmond Park giving Mr. Davies the caretaker a paper and there was a lantern lecture going on I asked one of the men this I asked one of the men the time as I wanted to go to a football match, and he said it was 25 to 7. I then had to go across to Campbell's dance hall in Richmond Park, and when I came out of there I talked to some boys for a very short time, and then walked down the passage into Wilverton Street. I had just crossed over

over to 23 Wilverton Street when I saw a boy named Allison Wildman walking down the entry towards Redborne Street. So he now he's introducing another boy into this scenario. Yes. So now he's like, I got to go which Monroe, I'm like, get it. Because Monroe is like, all right, I got to go talk to Wildman now. Right. So he tracks down Allison Wildman. He was 16 years old. He said he always looked at the Holy Trinity clock on his route. And on the night of the murder, he looked at it at 25 to 7. He said it takes him two minutes from there to Wolverton Street. And he had said to his mother that

the next morning, he, or excuse me, he had said to his mother the next morning, this like scenario. Yeah. Because he had heard about Julius murder. And so he was just kind of recounting his night to her, being like, oh yeah, I was right there when that was going on. So he said, quote, when I delivered the paper at 27 Wolverton Street, it would be about 22 to 23 minutes to 7. The door of number 29 Wolverton Street, that's Julia's door, was wide open and a milk boy was standing on the top step with two or three cans in his hand. He was wearing a collegiate cap.

When I left, the milk boy was still standing there. Now, Alan Close went to the collegiate school, was wearing that hat that night. Everyone confirmed it, even he confirmed it. So that was Alan Close standing there at the exact time that he originally said he was. Yes, I believe, Dalin. So everybody is, this is all confirming this. Right. All the kids are agreeing. But they'll come up with something to dismantle it. Well, a guy named David Jones also was somebody

who delivered papers. He was older, he wasn't like a teenager. And Monroe spoke to him too, because he's going to get the full. He wants as many people saying that they saw him as possible. He said the night of the murder, he delivered the newspaper at around 6.35 and put it in the wallets' letter box. The paper was found later open on the kitchen table. So either she or Wallace took it from the door and brought it to the kitchen, which would

mean she was likely alive at the time. Because obviously he's probably not going to go grab the paper and open it up and put it on. That doesn't make any sense. In the middle of murder. Yeah. He said that night he was seen by the police at this time and he had also spoken to them about something and told him, and he also told him of this account of his timeline because

he was like, I wanted to try to help. So he's like, I informed them of this. Yeah, I don't know why they're saying we haven't. He's like, they just didn't care. Well, that's, he's like, we've all talked to them about this. Like, we've all given our timelines to try to help here, but they won't listen. I don't know why they're pretending they don't know this.

So Monroe learned that they were not added. None of these kids and the sky, David Jones. None of them were added to the list of witnesses by the prosecution. Wow. What? That is fake AF. That's crazy.

So he tried Monroe tried to have them added because technically, why wouldn't you? There's no reason they shouldn't be added. Right. There's nothing to exclude them as witnesses, but the police went into their backgrounds to try to exclude them as witnesses. That's how far they're going here.

What is wrong with these people? Well, and unfortunately for the police, they found that they were clear. They just didn't, but they didn't add them. I just don't understand going so hard at someone who like has no criminal background whatsoever. I think because they didn't want to do real police work. Yeah, they wanted this buttoned up and they wanted to go, yep, he murdered his wife,

the end, let's move on. But it's like, they don't want to do it. They're going to have a dangerous murderer on the loose if you don't give a shit. Don't deal with this. Now, with all this, with all this information, all these timelines being confirmed, this is actually decreasing the amount of time that he had to kill Julia. And then we did it. And love gardens. Yeah. At first, they figured he was only going to have 18 minutes, which is not a lot of time. Right. To get there, kill her.

Crueyna. Crueyna. Clean himself so that there is not a drip of blood anywhere else in the house. And not perhaps on the toilet. And not to drip on him. Right, none. In 18 minutes, well now it decreased to 12 minutes. He would have had 12 minutes, which is ridiculous. And then the other thing that you think of is like, they're saying that he was wearing that jacket when he felt her.

And it's like, but she fell on the floor, obviously, at some point, then you're telling me that he like lifted her back up while naked and stuffed the jacket under her. Exactly. Underneath her. Exactly. Underneath her.

And then just walked out naked. It doesn't make, and it wouldn't be, because you can see in the picture, the jacket is like lane very flat. Exactly. Like, or laid very flat. Like it was on her shoulders. Right. And she fell.

Like it's not that somebody stuffed it. It's strange as fuck. Yeah. Well, and remember, this is still like the, um, the initial hearing. So they're basically doing this to see if they're going to go to trial. Okay. The judge has to decide whether they go to trial with a jury or if he's going to make the decision. Gotcha. Now they bring McFail onto the stand during this. Root Roe. Um, and, you know, he's getting grilled because he's just bullshit.

Because he's a failure. So he quote, he said, quote, I relied mainly on post mortem rigidity. But this evidence was corroborated by my observation at 950 of the large clot blood clot on the edge of the hearth rug, from which there was a small amount of serum excitation, the appearance of which was very characteristic, the evidence of the blood clot. So he is saying the separation of a tiny amount of serum out of a blood clot confirms the four-hour death mark. This is bullshit. Again. Bullshit. More bullshit. The amount of blood was a variable here. It's going to change things. It's not going to, he loves to say definitively things. Nothing, rarely in forensic science is something so definitive. Like you can be like 100% of the time,

this means that it is four hours. Yeah, that's not it. Because even like hair and stuff, like you look at hair and it's like, it's like 98% match to like you and 17 other people. Humans in the world around us by nature are variable. Yeah. There's too much variance around us for anything to really be 100% confirmed. Quick say variable again.

Variable. So, say crack, crack. So, the amount of blood is the thing here that really changes this. So, it was so much blood that the weight easily could squeeze some serum out prematurely, because there was so much blood that it's like all weighing on each other. I hate blood. Another doctor, Dr. Robert Koop,

said the amount of serum that was actually there, didn't even indicate four hours, but probably no more than three. He said, I wouldn't even put it. He said three is like the absolute max I would even put it at. Wow. And he and Dr. James Henry Dibble,

who was a professor of pathology at the University of Liverpool, did an experiment. Hey, oh. So a man in the area, when they found all this out, had just killed himself in a round town. And they ran to the morgue as soon as they found this out. This is so bad as they are. And he was brought to that morgue, and they immediately sat down when he was brought in,

and they observed his head wound, because he had a massive head wound. They watched the changes in the blood for hours. They just sat there and watched him, and watched the blood clot, watched what the serum, that would drive you like absolutely bonkers, I feel. That sounds awesome to just be able to, like, because you're doing it for the name of science

Like it's like an ex such a cool experiment if you could see it Just like watching it the spiritual upside that's so cool I mean I mean scientists yeah, like you can just watch it happen in front of you Oh, yeah, so in two and a half hours There was a quote very abundant amount of serum that squeezed from the blood in the head, two and a half hours. Right. So this proved the estimate of death could be off by at least two hours. That's a lot of hours to be off by because hers wasn't even a lot of serum. Exactly. And a very abundant amount was coming out at two and a half hours because of how much blood there was. And so two hours,

of course, in real like now, you know, estimate of death is always a huge estimate. And that's fine, but they're hinging this entire case. Well, they're saying definitively like it happened four hours ago, for sure. Exactly. And this is all they're using. His estimate of death is where they are laying all of their ducks. All of them are going there.

Because they're saying this is when he left, this is when he did it. So if he's off by this much, it throws everything into question. Of course, it's insane. They said they couldn't give a time after they did this experiment. Because they were like, we're still not going to give a time of when Julia was killed. Because we can't even give a time. But they were like, it is certainly not four hours. That is for sure.

And they said they knew the variables were just too much to give a definitive time and they are responsible. So they're like, we're not gonna tell you something just because we want it to fit a narrative. Right. But they said it could absolutely 100% have happened after Wallace left. They were like 100% by that serum it shows.

Yeah. So that throws it into question, but apparently everyone was like, oh, okay, whatever. Now, that's a frustrating. Bishop did his follow up statement, the prosecutor, and he put more information in that one. Oh my God. So he just followed it up with more.

During this whole thing, there were tons of flare ups between all the councils. They had to like hundreds of people had showed up for these. It was like a circus. It was one of the first like, try-your-try-als. It was really like everyone's coming to watch, everything. So it was just a crazy like, mayhem basically. Now, one of the last witnesses that they brought up was Inspector Gold, and he was on scene at one point during the day. And he was on stand one day and was asked about the fact that he had only produced and

referred to one diary of walces, and one entry talking about the qualtro call. But they weren't really referencing anything else. It's like, and they weren't referencing the fact that they had multiple diaries. So the defense asked, are the police in possession of the other diaries? Where do you only have one? He took three other diaries out of his coat pocket. What? And he just said these are business diaries kept by the accused.

And they were like, you can't just have that in your pocket. You can't just take shit evidence out of your pocket, bro. Like, are like, what? So he got frazzled because they were like, what? And he was like, how do you not know that's wrong? And then he said, there's an entry relating to a falling out with his wife on January 7th, 1928. And they were like, cool. You get that? Not admissible because like, you may have written that yourself at this point. So the defense was like, okay, one entry where he's like, we got an argument in all these like years ago. Right. And then so then the defense was like, okay,

motherfucker, because we have looked at the diaries. So he was like, so the defense was like, okay, December 5th, 1930. You wanna tell us about that entry? That entry was a time when Julia was coming home late and Wallace was so worried about her that he ended up calling the police. And it said, quote, I went back home and found her lady ship had just turned up

because he had gone out to look for her. Her lady ship, it seems a laundry van, van had been smashed up on the railway line. The train derailed and the line blocked. Julie awaited at Southport station until after 10 o'clock, and as she had apparently no hope of getting a train, she decided to take a bus. She arrived in Liverpool at 1230 and reached home at 1. It was a relief to know she was safe and sound, for I was getting apprehensive, fearing that she might have been run over by a motor car

or something. Then they read the entry, they read the entry in court, that exact thing. They were like, you need to read this. As they read it, he put his hands, his face in his hands and sobbed. Oh, because he missed her so much. Because he was probably sitting there being like, here I was that night thinking something terrible happened to her. Yeah. And like, look what happened. Right. You know, like, and here, and I'm sitting here being accused of it.

He very clearly loves his wife. Yeah. So Wallace did get to have his final statement in this, this initial hearing. I love Wallace. He said, quote, I plead not guilty to the charge made against me. And I am advised to reserve my defense.

I would like to say that my wife and I live together on the very happiest terms during the period of some 18 years of our married life. Our relations were of complete confidence in and affection for each other. The suggestion that I murdered my wife is monstrous, that I should attack and kill her is all to all who know me unthinkable. And the more so, when it must be realized that I could not possibly obtain one advantage by committing such a deed, nor do the police suggest that I gained any advantage. On the contrary, in actual fact, I have lost a devoted and loving comrade.

My home life is completely broken up, and everything that I hold dear has been ruthlessly parted and torn from me. I am now to face the torture of this nerve-wracking ordeal. I protest once more than I'm entirely innocent of this terrible crime. Oh my god. So he's literally like, I've lost my comrade. Like I've lost every partner in life. Yeah. That is devastating. And now you're gonna throw me in fucking prison. So the judge shared to this and says, we're going to trial. You're shitting me.

Nope. So remember, the rumors that are being brought into this whole thing are things like he was a follower of Alster Crowley and he was also a Satanist. Yeah, for sure. With no basis. He was an opium addict, a sex addict, was fucking every girl in town.

He had husbands all over him about it. He ensured Julia with a ton of cash to make sure he got a hefty payout. In reality, it was only a 20-pound life insurance policy, which barely covered the cost of the funeral. The press said he was probably banging his sister in law, Amy. Absolutely no. Amy was like, not the brother, what the hell. Then there was the added one that said, well, she was very sick, Julia. Yeah.

And somebody said, well, they must have found out she had a terminal disease, and he killed her to end her suffering. And of that brutal way, I don't think so. That's the first thing I thought of. And then if you read anything about this, people are like, who even came up with that? They're right. To like youth, like youth in Asia

is supposed to be like this peaceful, experience you end the suffering. Yeah. Peacefully, he's gonna take whatever he took, like a fire poker and will her over the head a bunch of times? Multiple times. No, I don't think that's how that went up. Bludgeoning versus like, yeah.

Oh, no. It's just insane to me. Okay. So in the, so when it comes to the trial, Wallace needed funding to pay for his defense. And he got it out of a lot of places. People were willing to give to his defense. I would have paid for that shit. His younger brother, Joseph, who was married to Amy, the sister-in-law, he's apparently having a very steamy affair with

this. Right. Like, why would my brother pay for that if he thinks that I'm having a fucking affair with his wife? Exactly. He came forward and helped pay for it. I mean, friends of his did. And then also his trade union came forward and paid first part of his defense, which is interesting. The, um, the, the potential staff union paid for it. And this is crazy because the executive council of the union actually, they didn't initially do it. They had a mock trial to see where they thought he would land. And that, and they were like, we got to what? They decided unanimously that he was innocent during this mock trial.

Wow. So they contributed a hefty donation to his defense. That's awesome. And interestingly, this is the first time a trade union did this for someone who is not on trial for work and union related ship. So this is a totally different thing. They've never done this.

February 19th, 1931, the Committal proceeding started. So this is basically, so now that they've decided they're going to trial, now this hearing is so that they can tell whether the judge is just going to make the decision or jury is going to be involved in the trial. Now this hearing is so that they can tell whether the judge is just going to make the decision or jury is going to be involved in the trial. Now there's like several steps. So all witnesses were brought forward. The John Stins, all the chess playing guys, the people he talked to on that like ill-fated men love gardens journey. Oh man, men don't love gardens. But they didn't talk to any of the tram conductors who talked to him, saw him,

know their schedules, have record of their schedules. Right. And could give them a lot of information. I wonder why they didn't talk to those people probably because they didn't want real information. Well, that's, and it's to me, you could find these people. It's not that they can't track them down.

No, the tram conductors, they have to go to work. You could just get them at work. They're lurking. They don't want their timeline fucked. No. They have a very specific narrative they're going with. Right. And as we will see, anyone who tries to have anything to do with telling the truth, they don't want to hear. But why can't the defense bring in the trained conductors? It's a weird process.

It's a weird process. It's a weird process. So, I don't know, even back then, like you have to agree on all the witnesses that are going to be going through. It's a whole bunch of legal Mambo jumbo. But the prosecution really just relied on bullshit. Yep. They relied on McFail.

And they relied on that conversation that Wallace had with Beatty. When he was after he had been talking to the police and the police station for a while, Wallace came out, he saw Beatty and Beatty was like, please don't talk to me about anything because I'm scared. And he was like, can you just like try to help me get closer to the 7, like where that time was, that quote to recall seven, like where that time was, that quote, I called you.

I just need a better time. And when he was talking about this, he later said, because of course the police took this as he's trying to change the timeline, which is like, no, that's you guys. But he later said, like, you know, I, that was an indiscretion. I shouldn't, and what he was meaning was I just, I'm nervous and I shouldn't have done that. That's how I took it. But of course they took it to a different place. So what the prosecution said is, quote, now you may think that that request to Mr. Beatty to try to remember the exact time of the telephone call and the subsequent conversation with the police rather suggests that the

prisoner at that time was already very much on the defensive. Why should he imagine himself in any danger? He's asking why is he wondering whether he's in any danger? What does he mean by saying when he was asked what might have been a perfectly simple question of Mr. Beatty? Quote, I have an idea. We all have ideas. It was indiscreet of me.

If the facts are, as the crown suggests, that it was indiscreet of him, that was an admirable description of that conversation. There was one other curious feature about that conversation with Mr. Beatty. He said to Mr. Beatty that he had just left the police when he asked those questions, and he said, quote, they have cleared me. At that time, no charge whatsoever had been made against him. Certainly nothing that had been said to him to suggest that they had suspected him. And he was now cleared, not at all. That's bullshit. That dude, Wallace was kept in police headquarters and an interrogative for literally 12 hours at a time.

Right. On multiple occasions. Being like, hey, do you often worship Satan in your crazy mad scientist lab while you smoke opium and beat your wife? Okay. And then go fuck your sister-in-law. They're literally being like, you are the only suspect. We're not looking at anyone else.

You did it. We know you did it. And we're going to prove that you did it. Of course, when he leaves, he's like, shit, they cleared me, cool. Because they didn't even ask follow-up questions on when he said, like, oh, I do know who could have done this, and it was that the bloody baseball guy. They didn't do anything about he was clearly a suspect, for him to- Right. For this fucking prosecutor's to suggest to these people that-

He was never a suspect until that moment. That it's insane for Wallace to think that he was never even a suspect until that moment. That it's insane for Wallace to think that he was under suspicion. No. Is so beyond the realm of thought. It's like, he's on Saturn somewhere. That's insane. Like I would have, I could never be in this fucking courtroom because I'd be like, are

you fucking kidding me? Like I would have for a while. I'm losing my shit. It's just insane. So they're going to trial. Oh, I'm going to trial by jury. So April 22nd, 1931. I would have threw it out. I would have threw it out. I would have threw it out. I would have threw it out. It's just insane. So they're going to trial. They're going to trial by jury.

So April 22nd, 1931. The trial begins at St. George's Hall in Liverpool. The judge is Justice Robert Aiderson, right? And he was a good judge. And he does his best in this trial. I will give it to him. Okay. But I will say it's interesting.

He wanted to rush this a little bit because he had, he was going in this trial, I will give it to him. But I will say it's interesting. He wanted to rush this a little bit because he was going to be like, and he had to be in court by like the next week. So he wanted it done like quick. Yeah. Like let's rush through this. Not usually how murder trials should go. No, no. Yeah.

So Roland Oliver is the head of the defense now, and he is awesome. Okay, cool. He does great. And the new prosecution head is Edward Hemmerd. He's the crown prosecutor. He's a lot. He gives a two hour opening statement. Far too much.

No one is listening after. And he immediately went hard with that, he wore that coat over his clothing to protect his clothes. Theory and he changed, he's the one who changed that too. He was naked wearing only a coat and he probably got off on it because sex totally, for like totally went there. Love to kill people while naked. You know, I've never even heard of that happening.

No, that's a very insane thing to suggest here. Yeah, especially with no evidence. Like, are you real? So the prosecution opening statement ended with, quote, without an apparent enemy in the world, she goes to her account. And if you think that the case is fairly proved against this man, that brutally and wantonly, he sent this unfortunate woman to her account. It will be your duty to call him to his account. Now interestingly, I just thought it was interesting he kept using his account, her account, his account, her account. I found a ton of Bible verses and sermons that use that kind of language.

Does account mean like your death? I think like your yeah. It just was like interesting, that it's like a very Bible, very sermon kind of thing to do. I don't know if he was trying to appeal to a certain demographic here or what? Well, and in England at that time too,

wasn't there no separation of churches? Yeah, so I think it was intentional for sure that he kept using that. I just thought it was interesting. Well, and he's building his whole case that this was like sex related to. Exactly, so I think you're right. Exactly, I think he's trying to like really hammer that.

So they brought Badeon to the stand. And when asked on the stand if Qualtra's voice was anything like Wallace's, they were like, could it even be that he was putting on a voice? He said, no. Oh, okay. And he said, it would be a massive, massive stretch for it to be his voice, even if he was faking it.

It was interesting. Nothing like his voice. It's so funny, because in the beginning of the story, you're like, oh shit. I know you're like, did he change his voice? But then you're like, oh no. Well, then James cared also confirmed

that Wallace was not a violent man. So he was like, this doesn't make any sense to him. He went on the stand too. He called to me, quote, placid man. And he also said that Julia and Wallace were quote, a very happy couple. I guess I've never seen anything else. Now they bring Alan close up. Is that the delivery boy who they like scared? They turned. Uh-huh. So he went along with the prosecutor's story, of course, because I wonder what they threatened. And he was very, he was very like sure of himself, like he was having a blast up there because he's like, fuck, I'm like, yeah, like the police like me, you know, like you could tell he was just like, yeah,

like dude, the police wanted you to lie. Exactly. Well, and so he's going along with it. He's getting the positive attention from the prosecutor because he's answering all the things because he has his story. They give him his story. So when the prosecutor started asking him, like, so then when the, excuse me, when the defense started asking further questions about multiple other children who saw, who he saw, who saw him, and who he actually interacted with that night,

he started getting a little nervous, because they didn't prepare him for that. In fact, he started fidgeting and then his voice went so quiet that they could barely hear what he was saying. A.K.A. he was lion. Yeah, in fact, several times the judge was like, I literally don't know what you're saying. Like, I can't hear you. So, he wasn't prepared for it because the story was given to him to be answered in the prosecutor's favor by the police. But they didn't know what the defense was in that. So when the defense started poking little holes in the story, he was not ready for that.

They did not prepare him for that. Right. So he lied several times and was caught and lies several times. He confused himself. He conflicted his own statements. He told defense he didn't know that the papers had said that Wallace had left his home at 615, because that was what was printed in the papers.

Then he told the prosecution five minutes later that he did know that. So even the judge was like, you just said you didn't know that. Like that's a lie. You're not a good witness. So it was totally blown. This was a huge blow to the prosecution, which is good.

Which is good. Which is very blatant that this kid was turned by the police. I know I feel I like want to be mad at him, but I also feel a little bad for him because he's a little kid. He's 14 and they probably like threatened his family. They probably scared the shit out of him. Yeah. And of course, he's going to think he's like a tough guy get because he's getting all this positive attention from the police from the prosecutors and then the defense comes up and is like, Hey, little boy, let me drop the hammer. And he's like, oh shit.

Yeah. So he got mixed up in like a really shitty thing. Poor kid. So that was day one. So day two, they bring in the Johnston's. Okay. They didn't really have a ton with the Johnston's because the Johnston's were just like,

we were there, we told you our story. They both did agree though. When they looked at crime scene photos, they were like, all of the furniture has been moved. And that coat isn't where it was. What? So they both were like, that's in, of course the prosecutors are like,

what, what are you talking about? That's how it was. And they were like, no. We were in there. And they both agreed. They were like, they moved that shit. Why would they move it? To make it fit more with McFales version of events.

That's so weird. Yeah. Now, they also brought constable- That's so fucked. Yeah. Now, they also brought constable Williams, who had arrived on scene early that day. They brought him on stand. Didn't he come like ship-based? He was, no, not him. That was more.

Oh, okay. So Williams was the one that he knocked on the door and Mrs. Johnston went to open it and she couldn't open the door. Sure. So then Wallace kind of reached over her and opened the door for it. It was like it got stuck. Yeah.

Now Wallace said that door was bolted. And that's why it wasn't opening for her and he had to unbolt it. So what happened was both said, so Constable Williams and Mrs. Johnston said, they didn't see the bolts. They didn't see that it was bolted so they couldn't say whether or not it was. Okay, not saying it wasn't there just like we didn't see it either way So either way it wouldn't open until Wallace opened it that day for him

This was kind of to bring to light the idea From the prosecution that the front door was not bolted like Wallace had suggested it was yeah that he was lying about that And basically they're trying to poke the hole in like you could have entered through the front door that night when you first arrived on scene But you're lying and you wanted to bring them around to the back It's like a little weird thing that they're trying to concentrate on here But when they asked Williams they were, did you hear a bolt open? Right, because he was like, I heard fumbling on the other side of the door.

Obviously, they couldn't open it. Right. So they were like, did you hear a bolt being opened? And he said, no, he didn't hear a bolt being opened. So they took that as like, boom, he lied. So in fact, hemer,, um, I was at hemerd, is that what I said it was? It's like, yeah, H-E-M-M-E-R-D-E. It almost looks like hemerd-E.

Hemerd-E. But I'd say hemerd. So hemerd looked at the jury once he was like, yeah, I didn't hear a bolt open. He looked at the jury and said, there, what did I tell you? That there was a bit. I want to be on this kind of chaotic jury. Where it's just like, he's like, he gets absolutely nothing out of them and then he's like, see? Boom. Jury men, swimming.

And the way the gun. Did you hear that? Like blood on his hands. Because he didn't, he didn't hear it. Did you hear it? Like I'd be like, fuck yeah, like I'd be like, this is awesome. I'd be like, I didn't he didn't hear it. Did you hear it? Like I'd be like fuck yeah, like I'd be like this is awesome. I don't know what's happening here. It's okay. I love chaotic energy. It's amazing. But Williams did have another moment. He said initially he was the

one who got Wallace's statement at the scene. And he said and then I didn't sit down and write it down until hours later. Right. Now in it, he said that Wallace told him Julia had walked him out to the backyard, and then it had like let him through the gate. And then she had walked back in to bolt the door when he left. Right. But Wallace said, that's untrue. I never said she walked me to the gate. I never said she came out of the house and walked me out. I said, she walked me to the gate. I never said she came out of the house and walked me out. I said she let me out the door. And that was it. Right. Now, when pressed, William said, quote, I thought of the probability that someone snuck into the home when they were saying goodbye at the gate. Okay. So this was huge and kind of unintentionally awesome for the defense.

Yeah. Because now a police witness is suggesting that someone else could have snuck in while Wallace and then we're saying goodbye. Right. He's literally being like someone that's when someone could have gone in the door. Because she even walked like through part of an alley with him. Yeah. So it's like this all was kind of like even the Wallace is being like, yeah, I didn't say that in my initials. He's like, well, good happen. It kind of works in your favor, bro. Yeah. Let's go with it. It was just really, this is what's so funny about this trial is like all this weird shit happens where like someone is helping someone unintentionally. Right. So then McFale gets brought up. And it's a real

shit show. Yeah. Is he like on opium? He's like a total showman. Like he loves this shit. Like he's leaning back like yeah. I am like, not nervous at all. And you know, the prosecution loves him. But then the defense rose to start their cross examination. And like he talked to the prosecution.

He answered their questions. Nothing really super interesting or anything. Just a simple shit. But then as soon as they sit down and Oliver rises up to give his cross examination, all of a sudden he's like, wait a second, he like interrupts, which is like, what are you doing? And he's holding a note.

And he says that it's important insight he had gathered into the mental state of the person who committed this crime. And he thinks it's important to tell you right now. Okay. As you're about to start your cross-examination. So even the judge was like, what the fuck? Like what did he start out to do with anything? You don't submit evidence, sir.

No, and he's like, you didn't submit it. Like, you can't do that. Yeah. You can't bring it to long now. On the stand, right. But like put that away. So he's like, shut up and let the defense ask their questions. The judge was like, I'm annoyed with you right now.

But it turned into kind of a pissing match where Hemmerd is being like, no, this is important. We should say it. And all of us, I need to start my, like this is a literal, like if I was on that jury, I would have had popcorn. I would have like this fucking awesome. Right.

But so McFale and Hemmerd are just ignoring the judge, like just still talking. And Hemmerd just goes, well, just give us a quick summary. Just quickly, just give us summary. Like literally being like, say it, say it, say it, say it, get it out there because even if it can't be brought into official evidence, say it out loud. So the jury hears it because they can't get it,

they can't wash it out of their ear holes. Right. Say it. So anyways, wash it out of their ear holes. Right. Say it. So anyways, on the defense's time, this is on the defense's time, he quickly said he believed the person who did this was in a frenzy. And that would make the jury see immediately that the this absence of motive that they're trying to hold on to on the defense. They don't need it. You don't need that now because if he's in a frenzy, he didn't need of motive that they're trying to hold on to on the defense. They don't need it You don't need that now because if he's in a frenzy, right? He didn't need of motive. Oh cool. They loved each other

That's fine. He was in a frenzy, right? Like that was all that that was literally just to fuck up all of us But over what? Well, that's the whole thing. So they're saying there doesn't need to be a motive all of that is moot now He just snapped. He's just a frenzied crazy dude. That's what their whole thing is. No motive needed anymore. We've just taken that away. So then what did the defense do?

So Oliver, because Oliver's great. It was like, okay, dude. But you know that he has been under under mental evaluation the entire time he's been in custody. Yeah, correct. And McFale was like, yeah, I know that. And he said, quote, under mental evaluation the entire time he's been in custody. Yeah, correct. And McFale was like, yeah, I know that.

And he said, quote, then if this is the work of a maniac and he is a sane person, he did not do that. Is that right? Because he's like, you are saying this is an insane person who did this frenzied insane person.

You just admitted to me that you know he's been under mental evaluation and he has been declared sane. Right. So by that logic, he couldn't have done this. He is a sane person. You are saying it is a frenzied, crazy person who did this. Not the same.

You're literally saying he couldn't have done it, right? Like apples and zucchinis. And he just answers, he may be sane now. What? And then he prepped and when pressed about it, he may be saying now. What? And then he pressed, and when pressed about it, he said, he kept going, I've seen this exact thing many times. I've seen it happen many times. But all of her just demolished him.

He was like, no. And he kept putting on there, like he kept being like, no. So you're saying that for 52 years of his life, he has been a perfectly sane person without any hint of mental illness or any kind of frenzied behavior. Yeah, 52 years of his life. And then in the span of 12 minutes,

he suddenly lost his shit, frenzied, kills his wife in the most brutal fashion for no fucking reason at all, with no no nothing and then immediately after those 12 minutes Boom, he's saying again, and then he's saying completely until now like if you had like a break and He did he was frenzied when he killed her He would be like sad afterwards. I would think I don't think he would have a break and then immediately go back into St. No, I've never heard of that. He would have had immediately 12 minutes. The only time that this frenzied insane behavior would have happened.

I feel like it usually lasts a little bit longer. And it's like the Johnston show up and he's perfectly giving reasonable answers. He's having emotions, but he's got himself together. Right. No. And Oliver kept pushing that and McFail is trying to hang on it. And even the judge was just like, shut the fuck up. You got to get off the stand, bro. So then Oliver just continues like

harshing the stutes mellow, of course. Keeps doing it. He got him to admit, because he kept hammering him about that rigor mortis. Right. Now he was like, okay, you are hinging this time of death on that rigor mortis. You really, you really put it on there.

He got him to admit that although you should check the progression of rigor mortis every quarter of an hour to make sure that your assessment lines up with the progression that is happening because things can change, variables. He said he never rechecked it. He never took even one note about the rigor mortis. There's not one record that he took

of what the rigor mortis was, what it looked like or any of the progress from that day. That's unreal. So he didn't do his job that day. It's what you're saying. So you literally checked it when you walked in and that was it, you never rechecked it. You didn't see if it broke, you didn't see rechecked it you didn't see if it broke you didn't see it for progress you didn't

see if it changed you didn't see if that temperature was doing anything to it nothing right no and he was like well isn't that kind of fucked and he's like that's for Badam isn't that kind of fuck he said that on the stand and he's like no it's fine no he said no no that's fine isn't that kind of fucked so Nah, nah, it's fine. Is it not kind of fucked? So Oliver killed him on that too. Right. That was just another blow. Like you look like a fucking idiot. So then they bring up the clot.

Oh, that clot. Oh man, that clot really. So he, Oliver like tricked him with this, which is fun. I love the trick. And again, I'll post, I'll post, I will post. I will post. I will, I will post that. I'm gonna post the court transcripts

so you can really see how this all goes down. Right. It's so good. So first, Oliver asks about clotting of blood. And he gets that information. And then he says, and McPhil admits that serum doesn't exude much in the first few hours. Then he said blood clots somewhere in five, six, or even 10 minutes.

That's when it starts clotting. Yeah. So Oliver said, if interfered with, it would break up, would it not? And he says, yes. And Oliver says, or splash, would it not? And he says, he's like, what? Like, I don't understand what you're asking me. And Oliver says, let us say, drop down a hard substance.

I would suggest it would be at least an hour before you could take a clot and drop it on, say, a table without smashing it. Yeah. So McFale says, a clot would smash up even then, even after an hour. So Oliver says, let me take a clot, 3'16 wide, and 1'8 of an inch high, which happens to be the clot

that was found in the bathroom, the exact dimensions. I don't know if you caught that. Well, that is fresh and newly clotted. If you were to drop that onto say a laboratory pan, it would spread out, would it not? And he says, yes. Now, at this point, he still wasn't catching on. Right. So he's like, yes. And all of her says, what I am putting to you is

that it would take at least an hour before a clot of blood would be sufficiently solid, not too flatten when it was dropped onto that laboratory pan. And he goes, no. So you just said, yes, yes, yes, yes. And then you just says, no, no. And he goes, well, how long? And he answered. And I guess he was like, um, uh, and like kind of stumbled. And then he all of a sudden just goes an hour. So he just made a God. So he got, got. So like, that's like he got, like that would have been one of those things where you would have been like, from the Jerry's, like I would be like, oh shit. They brought their air hordes to the day. I would have lost it on the Jerry, like this is so fun to me.

I love it. I was reading this shit literally just like throwing the book down and being like, John, let me tell you about how Oliver just owned McFall. And he's like, who are these people? John's like, I'm what? And I'm like, the clot. Remember the clot I told you about the bathroom? And he's like, uh, he's like, no.

Sure. And he's like afterwards, he's like, that's so cool. John's like, what's for dinner? So cool. I'm so glad Oliver owned him in 1930. That's great for morbid. It's awesome. I was like, what's for dinner? So cool. I'm so glad Oliver owned him in 1930. That's great for morbid. Awesome. He's like, call Ash. He's like, please stop. So he then asked about the possibility that the police brought that blood up there accidentally while our traipsing around. Right. And he, McFall agreed. He said he would accept that as a possibility.

All right. So we're getting somewhere. Then he was asked about it. So then the judge is like, so yeah, like the judge is just confirming like, so it totally could have been like the police bringing that up there. No. And he's like, no, it wasn't brought up by the police.

And even the judge was like, you just said, it might have been like the judge said, am I losing it? And he said, quote, sure, it was possible, but no police went up there. What? That's such a lie. Yeah, that's not true at all. That it almost makes you question whether like your,

I'm like, what? I'm like, is this the same case I've been reading? It's documented that at least four police officers went up there. Yeah, because they went upstairs also to account for the money that was in all the magazines and stuff. Exactly.

And so police officers, Wallace, the Johnston's, all went up there before that blood was found. So that's just a lie. So they just caught them in that too. And the judge is literally like shaking a said, like, what the fuck? I would declare, like, not. I'd be like, you're all insane, this is not.

My declaration would be not. So detective superintendent Moore is the one that they pulled out of a pub to come to the scene. Yes, oh here we go. Is he shitfaced today too? He said the absence of blood on Wallace's shoes actually wasn't a good thing for him. It was actually more reason to convict him because he didn't have blood on his shoes actually wasn't a good thing for him. It was actually more reason to convict him because he didn't have blood on his shoes because he knew where the blood was when he showed up and he just didn't step in it because he did it. So of course he knew where the blood was.

It's not gonna step in it. I don't understand that rationale. And you're like, wowser, that doesn't, doesn't make sense. I hope you did some stretches before you took that fucking leap because holy. Because holy. So, he was also very combative with the defense. He did not like being questioned. He wouldn't give them a straight answer. He would just do the yes or no. He would, many times, he would be like,

I don't remember or I don't recall. That makes you a shitty witness. When Oliver asked him about Wallace, he was like, well, you know, did Wallace, was he cooperative with the police? Initially, he was like, well, you know, did Wallace, um, was he cooperative with the police? Uh, initially he was like, no, he wasn't. But then Oliver was like, well, weird, because I have a deposition from you right here. Can I read it to you? Oh my God. And he's like, in that deposition, he says the exact opposite. He says he was very cooperative,

very helpful, answered all our questions questions was there when we needed him So then his response to this after being confronted with that fucking lie he goes well Like he answered our questions So he was and then he goes and he was there if we had questions and he would answer them Cool that's We were like so what did he do that wasn't cooperative then? Well, that's unlike, did you think we meant like was he helpful? Like, did he, you know, rotate all your mattresses and like,

oops, did he tighten up all the loose piping in your house? Like, did he, did he touch up the molding? Like, no, we're literally asking you, did he, and that's all we're saying. Did he answer your questions? Did he show up when you needed theming? Like, no, we're literally asking you, did he, that's all we're saying. He adds your questions. Did you show up when you needed them too? Like what, yes and yes. Okay, cooperation.

So Oliver literally said, which is why I love Oliver, his response to this was, you do not want to concede a point to the defense if you can help it, huh? I love it. He's like, let me just call this as I see it. He's like, so you literally don't even want to give us a point in it. Right, right. So that this as I see it. So you literally don't even want to give us a point in it. Right, right.

So that was day two. Wow. How many days is this? Only three. So randomly on day three, they decided to bring up a rent, like the city analyst, this is like the forensic expert. But he is not a medical professional. He is not an Emmy, he is just the analyst.

Like he looks at scenes all that. So why is he here? They basically were like, your testimony is really not valid because you're not a medical professional, so they were like, you can't speak on medical things. You can speak on other parts of this, but not on medical things, because that's not who you are. So this guy goes up on this, on this stand and he's like, well, guys,

I did an experiment myself, and I need to share the findings with you. You can't. Because it's really pertinent. So he said, you know, I was really disturbed by that blood clot in the laboratory. So we can blood clot. Which to which I say me too, like what was same. We've all heard too much about it. We're all disturbed by it. The one that they are exhaustively going over for no fucking reason, because it really has no bearing or anything. And he said, quote, when fresh blood

drops from a height of 15 inches, it forms a little clot. And when that dries, it clots together and makes a blob. A blob, is that the language surrounding that blob? Okay. So Oliver said, quote, you made these experiments to see whether a thing which you had never seen could be reproduced. That's literally what he's like, so you didn't see that,

okay, let me just get this straight. So he was like, yeah, yeah, science. Like, let's, yeah, that's what I did. So he was like, okay, can we see notes on your experiment? Can we see the whole thing? Because when you do an experiment, you need to have a whole, yeah, like hit me up with your hypothesis.

The scientists here. And he was like, oh no, you can't see them. And he was like, why though? And he was like, I didn't take them. And he's like, right. So you didn't do an experiment. So you literally didn't write any, like can I see a word you wrote down?

Can I see a Google Doc? And he was like, no, I literally did not record anything about this thing, I'm just telling you about it. So of course this is bullshit, with no evidence, no record, no notes, we're worth the hell. People who heard it though after this day, because it got around.

So it like stays with you. They were all like, what the fuck? Doctors were quoted as saying, quote, he was the analyst who was able to make a drop of fresh blood rise like a souffle. Oh my god, I'm dead. And somebody who was part of the university medical staff, the University of Liverpool medical staff said, quote, the only explanation as far as I can see

as to how Mr. Roberts achieved cone-shaped clots from drops of freshly shed blood is that before commencing his experiment, he coated the rim of the pan with Vaseline. Stop. Like they were like that's lit, because it is. Anybody who knows anything about blood, that's just not true. You don't drop it.

Where you drop it, what height you drop fresh blood, that's just come out of somebody's body, that doesn't matter what height you drop it from. It's not going to clot because you dropped it from a height. It's time. That's what clotting. And it's like they're trying to prove, they're trying to take away that clotting thing where McFail had to admit that it was an hour for it to clot like that and to stay together like that. Right. They're trying to take that away and

say, well, he just did the state of the art experiment this guy. No, no. And he dropped it from 15 inches and it clotted. Never seen that before. Sounds like magic. So people are like, no, he probably coated the fucking thing with gasoline. With gasoline. With gasoline, you might as well, and they were like, that doesn't make any sense. So it was just bullshit, but again, it was set out loud. Right, so it's set out loud, you can't take it back.

You don't, not everybody knows about blood and shit. Yeah, you can strike that shit from the record, but you heard it. What are you gonna do? So that was the prosecution's turn. Okay. Now Oliver gets to make his statement for the defense, because now he's going to be able to bring up his witnesses.

What his opening statement basically said was there's no motive here. They were saying, you know, this frenzy thing is insane, because one, he's been mentally evaluated this entire time, and his entire 50-year years, he's never been frenzyed is insane because one, he's been mentally evaluated this entire time and his entire 50-year years, he's never been frenzyd or insane. But also, it totally conflicts with all of these police officers who have stated several times and were very disturbed and so was McFale at how calm and collected and with what he was. Yeah.

So is it he's frenzied or is it he's too calm? Right. Which one is it? We can't have both. And he kept saying he was like, you can't have both. So they got to pick one. They got to either say he's a calm, evil, satanic serial killer or he's a frenzied madman. Like put that cake down, you can't do that.

So and then they're also saying, you know, there's nothing that connects him to the phone call. The call tro phone call. In fact, people are saying it couldn't have been him. Right. The timeline, he just didn't have a time to do this. He didn't have time to kill or clean himself, go to Men Love Gardens East or try to find it, and then come home in the time frame.

Discuss. It just doesn't make any sense. There's also no murder weapon, and they've searched everywhere and they didn't find one. I know, that's like a huge part of this investigation. And if it was Wallace, he only had a certain perimeter or a certain amount of locations he could have stashed that in, because he didn't travel, he didn't have enough time to do anything else. And all his locations. The people who saw him when they saw him would have seen him holding something.

Exactly. Now, he said at the end of his statement, quote, this is the man who you are asked to convict of murder, and this is the man to whom I am now going to ask you to listen. Remember that in so far as statements were made of by him on that Tuesday night, if he is an innocent man, consider what condition of mind he must have been in, whether quiet, as the police say, stunned by shock, or whether sobbing went alone. As Mrs. Johnston says, if he has made a slipper to, remember the circumstances.

Yeah, like his wife was just brutally murdered. And I like that he put that in there. Like, you cannot base this all on what people are saying he acted like. Because if he is innocent, he walked in and found his partner of 18 years brutally massacred in their legumes So like give him a break Now Wallace had actually slid a note at the beginning of this whole thing to his lawyers that said quote

I wish to go into the witness box and give evidence. Yeah, which is like hell. Yeah, Wallace now he took the stand and He actually gave like more information than he needed to like he was trying to be very like in a good way. Okay. So Oliver said, quote, I must I suppose I must put this question to you. I think it follows from what you have said. Did you lay a finger on her? Did you lay a hand upon your wife at all that night?" And he said, you know, I guess he just sat there and was like, I think in going out the back door, I did what I often enough did. I just padded her on the shoulder and said, I won't be longer than I can

help. So he took it as like, I did lay a hand on her, I put my hand on her shoulder. Yes. And Oliver goes, I did not mean that.'t he say, did you strike her? Did you do anything to injure her? And he said, oh no, certainly not. Oh, well this is the purest. So then, hemorrhage comes on to question him. And he tried to trick him. And he tried to do this by, usually you will ask things in chronological order so you can get the real,

you know, you're not trying. I think it's kind of dirty pool to like, try to trick people up on like days by asking things out of order because that's not getting real information. That's just getting someone confused. Right. You're just confusing them. You're not getting actual.

Yeah. But he decided that was the way to go. So he started asking him things out of sequence. That's dirty. So he was like on Tuesday, did you do this on Wednesday? Did you talk to this man? Well, what about that earlier that Sunday that was before all that and he was like Oh fucking no, so he did trip up a couple times. Yeah, like just being like wait, Tuesday I talked to this person like no it was Wednesday like I can't remember like he was just trying to remember things

Right, but he ended up being on it like he got a shit together and he ended up not being a shit bite. I made a doctor's appointment this morning and she was like, we have like tomorrow at blah blah blah and I was like, I might have, I'm like fuck what day is tomorrow. Like I have no idea what tomorrow is. I could never, I would be like, what? I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't, someone said like what did you do last Sunday?

I'd be like, uh, what day is today? Like I don't know. He kept, the trick he was trying to do would just work and I work on him. He asked him about the Qualtrot call and he established over and over that no one would have been able to say for sure that Wallace was going to be at the chess club that night. He was like, I, no one would have been able to say,

like, yes, I'm going to be there because I was kind of flaky there. I, you know, it just, I didn't tell anyone besides my wife. And Wallace, and, um, excuse me, he kept hammering that though. Hammer, hammered. He kept hammering this whole thing. So he says, hey, so he says to him, and of course, Mr. Qualtrot had no possible means of knowing whether you would receive that

call that night that he made to the chess club because no one knew you were going to be at the club. And so he says that is so. And he says then he rang you up at 715 or 720. And without knowing you would ever get the message and without knowing you would ever go to Men Love Gardens East. Apparently he was ready waiting for your departure that night. And he goes, it would look like it. Like he's not even trying to, he's like, yeah, you're right. That's right. And he goes, it would look like it. Like, he's not even trying, he's like, yeah, you're right.

That's weird. So then he suggested that that was risky on Qualtros part. He was like, isn't that kind of risky? That like, he doesn't know if you're gonna get that phone call. Because you're telling me, like, he doesn't know. And he's like, yeah, you're right. That is weird. Like, he's thinking he's gonna get him to be like, well, you know, blah, yeah, no, blah

And he's like no, yeah, that is risky. Yeah, like he's like and do that and he like couldn't Rattle him like he was just like, yeah, that's very risky weird like that. What do you do that? Well, it's a weird guy I guess I don't know it worth it. I met him. He's like I worked I guess so like good on him. Yeah, I suppose So he then suggested to him that the wrong addressed abacal, him giving him that address that doesn't exist, was just, he was like, well, wouldn't that be kind of like good for you because it establishes your alibi?

If you were sent to Men Love Gardens West, you would just go to that address that exists, talk to that one person and be on your way. But because he gave you an address that doesn't exist, you talk to seven people who can now say they talk to you. Which is a fair question. Which is a very fair question. And while it goes, yeah, you're right.

That'd be a great alibi. Right. Like he was just like, I don't know what to tell you. He's like, yeah, dude, I'm saying. Because he's like, dude, I don't have answer. If I had answers for you, like, I'm agreeing with you, this is weird. Right. Like, this whole thing is weird. Then they hammered him about why he went back home because he had mentioned

after I couldn't find this address. I heard it was fake. He said he quoted as saying I became suspicious and came back home. So they were like, well, you became suspicious because you knew what you did. And he was like, no. well, you became suspicious because you knew what you did. And he was like, no. No. And at one point, they said to him, quote, I am putting to you that you had no reason to be suspicious when you returned home

because you knew what. And he goes, new what? And they go, what exactly had happened in the house? And he goes, how could I know? Like, he was, he's like, so nice tries.

So he's not even giving them this, like, no, there's no way. He's like, well, how could I know that my wife had been murdered? Like, he's not even giving them, like, he's like, you just don't make sense. He's trying to make him seem like, well, no, I, you know,

I wouldn't know that. He's literally like, well, I, what? Like, but how would I know? Great, I don't get it. It's just, I love that he's just like, totally chill, like, well, no, I, you know, I wouldn't know that he's literally like, well, I, what, like, but how would I know? A break. I don't get it. It's just, I love that he's just like totally chill, like green. Just like, yeah.

So Hammer just couldn't get any. He's being so cooperative. He's just agreeing, which is not helping him, but it's not hurting him as well. So it's just, I think that made the prosecutions thing kind of moot, which is like fun because he put all this effort into it and he didn't really get anything out of it So then the defense comes up and they said When you were playing the violin with your wife or you accustomed to do it when you were naked in a Macintosh Was that your habit and they just came out like that? No, he says what was that?

And they said to play naked in a Macintosh and he said, what was that? Like, he was like excuse me. And they said to play naked in a Macintosh, and he said, I have never played naked in my life. He's like, yeah, he's like, that is not my forte. And, whoops. Again, I pulled the charger out of the wall. Is that what it was? I haven't done that in a while, so for real-time sake.

So I love that the defense used that as like kind of a shocking. Like, were you accustomed to play naked when you played with your wife and he was like, what what? So I love that they the defense use that as like kind of a shocking like was it? Were you accustomed to play naked when you played with your wife? And he was like what what? Because they wanted to get that real action. Yeah, I'm like not him being like no, you know like he was like what the fuck are you? Because they were like so you didn't play naked and he's like no never in my life Then they brought all three of those kids, Matt Kaff, LC Wright, and Kenneth

Kaird up. And they all, they all set on the stand because they were able to bring them up. The prosecution didn't bring them up. They were. They all said that Alan had told them he had seen Julia at a quarter to seven. None of them would agree to this new story of his. And we're basically like, he's lying. Yeah. He's a liar. I like fuck that guy. I know it. Now the closing statements, the judge spoke for an hour. Wow. The judge. Wow. And this is part of what he said. The real test of the value of circumstantial evidence is, does it exclude every reasonable possibility? I can even put it higher. Does it exclude other theories or possibilities? If you cannot put the evidence against the accused man beyond a probability, and nothing more,

is that, excuse me, if that is a probability which is not inconsistent with there being other reasonable possibilities, then it is impossible for a jury to say. We are sad, you cannot, it is impossible for a jury to say, we are satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that the charges made out against the accused man. A man cannot be convicted of any crime, least of all murder, merely on probabilities, unless they are so strong as to amount to a reasonable certainty.

If you have other possibilities, a jury would not, and I believe ought not, to come to the conclusion that the charge is established. However, you regard the matter. The whole crime was so skillfully devised and so skillfully executed, and there's such an absence of any trace to incriminate anyone as to make it very difficult to say, although it is a matter entirely for you, that it can be brought home to anybody in particular. So he's literally telling them they haven't proven their case. No, no, no. I just want you guys to like go back and like I don't think that you should, because he

said like you ought not. And he said, so he said, if there is an unknown murderer, he has covered up his traces. Can you say it is absolutely impossible that there was no such person, but putting that aside as to not being the real question, can you say taking all the evidence as a whole, bearing in mind the strength of the case put forward by the police and the prosecution, that you are satisfied beyond reasonable doubt that it was the hand of the prisoner, and no other hand that murdered this woman? If you are not so satisfied, it is not proved.

Whatever your feelings may be, whatever your surmers, or suspicions, or prejudices may be, it is not established as a matter of evidence and legal proof, then it is your duty to find the prisoner not guilty. Of course, if you are satisfied equally, it is your duty to find him guilty, but it is your duty to decide on the evidence which has been given to you before you during these three days. And whatever your verdict is, that is the acid test which you must apply. Will you consider your verdict and say whether you find the prisoner guilty or not guilty? Well, that was just only part of it. But it was it was him saying they have

improved in their case. If you if you can comfortably say that they have, then by all means, say guilty, but don't you dare go into there with your own prejudices and with reading the papers and with hearing what everybody said and say guilty. Yeah. So they come back after an hour. Gentlemen of the jury, are you agreed upon your verdict? We are. Do you find the prisoner guilty or not guilty of murder? Guilty. How?

They found him guilty. How? This jury was a fucking mess. That's how some of them fell asleep during the trial. Are you kidding me? Fell asleep. Most of them were giggling at times. They shouted things.

Some of the women cried at times. There was a one of them holding the, because they brought a replica of that iron bar that they were talking about could possibly have been the murder weapon. And they had them hold it to see how heavy it was. They were mock hitting each other with it and pretending.

Oh my God. So something like, I understand obviously, it's just the way things go. The jury's fine, people guilty, but it's like, if the judge doesn't think that the person is guilty, like take it into consideration. Yeah, you know?

It's weird. Well, and there were stories that came out later of jurors that came forward and were like, oh, I didn't think he was guilty, but we were threatened and intimidated by other jurors who were working with the police. Absolutely. And so this is like a crooked police force.

It was a mess. Now, as soon as it was red, he started to cry. Obviously, because he's going to prison. He was brought to Liverpool prison. He was stripped. He was put in prison grays, because he was now set to be executed 17 days later on May 12th. Are you kidding?

So his lawyers are officially like appeal. Appeal, appeal, appeal. Okay, you want an innocent man. So they were like, yep, so May 18th, they decided they moved his execution date and they decided to do the appeal. Oh my gosh. Now three judges were gonna determine

after statements whether this appeal was valid. During and before this, churches were actually setting up things to pray for him because that's how much people thought he wasn't guilty. It was very divided, which is funny because he was agnostic and he was openly agnostic and wrote in his diary, but churches were praying for him. I wonder if he changed his mind. I just thought that was like a fun thing. It's nice, yeah.

Because it's just like, what's right? You know, it just doesn't matter about your beliefs. It's just what's right and wrong. Now, lack of evidence was cited, obviously, on the appeal. Not enough to prove that he was guilty. They also said that the jury was clearly hostile and biased against him, like that was clear.

45 minutes later, the conclusion to which we have arrived is that the case against the appell conclusion to which we have arrived is that the case against the appellant of which we have carefully and anxiously considered and discussed was not proved with that certainty, which is necessary in order to justify a verdict of guilty. Therefore it is our duty to take the course indicated by the statute to which I have referred. The result is that the appeal will be allowed and this conviction quashed. So then he was acquitted.

He was acquitted. He was acquitted. He didn't have to do an entirely trial. That day, he walked out a free man. Oh my God. Thank goodness. They walked out a free man and there was a party at his insurance company and his honor. People tried to set up funds to compensate him for his emotional damages.

Most people agreed. And the press pretty much agreed that this was the right thing to do. Did he have to like move out of town though? Because there were so many people that didn't agree. Unfortunately, he found that a lot of his neighbors and people he thought were friends had turned on him. And people started saying he was just lucky.

He really did it. They were calling him a vampire, a sex addict, all those maniacs, all those started coming right back up again. He's done nothing. And at first, he was like, fuck the haters, like he didn't care. And he said, I'm gonna live in my house because it's my home, like I'm living there. In fact, he wrote to his lawyer, it is my home.

What would the tattletail say if I were to accept a position elsewhere or even change my address to another district of Liverpool? They would say that I'm running away. They would say that it was an indication of guilt. Does it mean nothing that I was freed by the court of appeal? Right. And things were bad when he returned.

And people in Liverpool treated him like a murderer. Like they would like literally like run into their house when he walked down the street and shit. I feel so bad for him. He lost his wife and then lost everything. Yeah, and he was trying to stick it out. And he lost her reputation. Well, and he wrote again, Tumanro, he wrote after a while, he said, quote,

they are the rottenest crowd I ever struck, mean and poultry-brained. I feel it is a wicked insult to Julia, how she would have scorned this whole thing. People also show up at his home while he's living there, and they're shouting Julia through the door. Oh, gosh.

And like whispering Julia through the door and shit. That's f**k. People are also trying to take souvenirs from his like murder house while he lived there. Meanwhile, like, and like kids are coming and they're like making it like a game to go like touch. Like kind of when Lizzie Borden moved into. I was just going to say that. Maple craft. It became like a thing. But so eventually he just couldn't do it anymore.

He was like, this is not worth it. So he did move to a smaller like bungalow. Because that is like a person in and of itself. Yeah. So he moved to Northwest England. He hired a housekeeper who also was someone who was going to like kind of care after him because he was his house was failing. Rumors immediately went out that she was the woman that he killed Julia for. Oh my god. Even though like no. And then there was rumors that he was keeping a new wife locked in a cage in his new bungalow. He built a high fence around his garden to keep people out and people said that he was burying bodies there and just being naked and satanic in his gardens, of course. That's one does. On August 25th, 1931, he wrote in his diary to go about feeling that one is shunned by nearly everyone as a terrible ordeal.

And though I try to fight it down and ignore it, the whole business depresses me beyond words. Perhaps after a while I may get immersed in some new hobbies to take my mind off of the terrible tragedy, what I fear is the long nights. On September 8, 1931, he wrote, The Last Few Days I've Been Depressed Thinking of My Deer Julia. I'm afraid this will be a very lonely winter for me. I seem to miss her more and more, and cannot drive the thought of her cruel end out of my mind. So this poor guy is dealing with this fact. Um, on March 20th, 1932, he wrote, Today I have been very, very much depressed, full of grief and tears.

Julia, Julia, my dear, why were you taken from me? Why should this have been so? It is a question to which I can get no answer. And I must fight the spread feeling of utter loneliness as best as I can. This is so sad. This is not a man to me who murdered his wife. No way.

Now, his kidney issues were very much recurring. They were getting worse and worse and I'm sure the stress is gonna say, stress will do such a number on the body. It can kill you. Absolutely. And that's what people don't get is like when people were going after him and shit like

this, like he was acquitted. Yeah. And this wasn't one of those acquittles that you're like, it's like a KC Anthony, you know I mean where you're like, that's mind boggling. That motherfucker did it. Yeah. It's like this is one of those things like there was no other. Come on.

There was literally not a shred of evidence. It's not even a murder weapon. But whatever. But people just like drove them out and kept till the very end. Like, didn't care. It's insane. And I feel like 2021, like, it's the same kind of thing. Oh, yeah.

But now we have the internet where people will be that works. And it's just insane. Like, people don't think of other people's mental health. They don't give a shit or they don't care. They're mad about something they're gonna destroy you. It just sucks. I feel bad for Wallace.

I think one of the most important things that you ever hear is you never know what anybody else is going through. Exactly, exactly. And I feel like people have lost that. People have absolutely lost that. Because honestly, I don't think people care. No, and it's sad.

It is. It's a bummer. It's gotta turn into a revenge. It's gotta change. So, February 9th, 1932, he was brought to the hospital for emergency surgery. Uh, he stayed there bedridden until he died February 25th, 1933. His last words were to his nephew Edwin, and he said, do good with your life. Those were his last words. Of course they were, because William Wallace is the purist soul and he was buried with Julia and and somebody told me how to say this Anfield I think

it's Anfield cemetery I think you're right somebody from England told me how to say it and I totally forgot so I'm sorry in the same cemetery with Julia good what would be insane is if he did kill her that's real fucked that he was buried with her but he didn't I've never been more sure of someone to know he did not. Now just to quickly end here, because remember Richard Gordon Perry, like that whole thing came out of there. Yeah, where did he go? I think he's a good suspect for this. Several people said that they believed that he would murder someone and they wouldn't be shocked. So people who knew him were like, oh, that wouldn't shock me if he murdered someone. Wow. And two years after the murders, his ex-girlfriend,

Lily Lloyd, reached out to Hector Monroe, the defense attorney, and he said, I just can't bear it anymore. My conscience is killing me. She said, I lied in 1931 about being with Richard that night And then she said I will sign an affidavit to that effect. All right here. I'm gonna spill the tea for you Never lie for a man. Don't do it. I for a man. Don't ever lie for a man We don't tell lies for men. Yes. Don't do it. No, and like good for Lily Lloyd for coming I mean don't lie in general. Yeah, but like definitely don't do this shit. Don't do it! No! And good for Lily Lloyd for coming to Forty-Forty. I mean, don't lie in general, by the way. Definitely don't do this shit. Don't do shit for a minute.

I'm glad she came forward, but like damn. So here's the thing. So Richard Gordon Perry was at that cafe that the chest thing was happening at a lot because he was probably like a drama troupe that would meet at that cafe. Sure. He would have, so he knew Wallace, obviously, from work, that whole falling out.

He would have seen Wallace on the schedule for that night's matches if he had looked. So that whole thing they were sitting at, of nobody knew you were there. So how would this qualtro call and think that you were there? He did, that doesn't make sense. Richard Gordon Perry could have seen him on the schedule. I think there. I mean, why do you have a bloody baseball in your car? And that's the only person besides the chess players that were there that night that

couldn't have called because they were there. Right. That would know he was there. Yeah. This guy is the only other one. You don't go to a car wash at midnight and like demand that it your car becomes. Exactly. So people think he staked out the house,

watched Wallace leave, made the call, then killed Julia because he knew Wallace was now sent far away. He knew that he sent him to get him out of the house for as long as he could. That's so nuts. So then people started saying we're Perry and Julia having an affair because they were close, I guess, and like she did like

There was that whole thing that they were like or was there some weird thing or like maybe he had something with it It was just a weird thing. I think it was just a rumor. Yeah, but then this also could have just been revenge on Wallace for getting him fired I think that's reason enough because this guy had a super temper. He was violent. He was prone to this shit There's motives. There's motives enough. Because this guy had a super temper. He was violent, he was prone to this shit. There's motives. There's motives here. Absolutely. Now, in 1932, interestingly enough,

Perry was caught sitting in someone else's car stealing it. So he was brought to jail. Then in 1934, he went to jail and was sentenced to three months for carjacking someone. In 1936, he picked up a woman, Lili Fitzsimmons, brought her into a secluded location, sexually assaulted her, and then the charges were dropped. Oh, yeah, he's dangerous. He was an alcoholic, his whole life, a violent alcoholic, and people basically just called him a dick, and his family said he refused to discuss the murder of Julia Wallace. He would not talk about it. I mean, hello, like let's wake up.

Hello. Let's retroactively wake up. I think it's weird. I think it's worth looking into. Now, this is the oldest open cold case at the Marcy Sides Police Department still. Oh, it's open. It's still open.

That's why I'm not being able to, because he was acquitted. They have no one on this day. And that's the very abridged version of the murder of Julia Wallace. Wow. And I tell you, tell you, tell you read that book, read that book, read that book.

Yeah. It has so much cool shit in it. What a bonkers case. I don't think it's the I don't know. I think the, he did it. It's bonkers. The whole thing. What's naming it? Richard Gordon Perry. Yeah. Perry did it. I think he I think that he did it. It's bonkers. The whole thing. The whole thing again? Richard Gordon Perry.

Yeah, Perry did it. I think he had something to do with it. I know for a fact William Herbert Wallace did not do this. I agree. Wow. Wow. Let us know what you guys think. And we hope you keep it.

We're, but not so rare that you are the worst and you don't listen. Yeah, don't just do good police work. Yeah, like come on. That's your job. 1930s. I'm sure of active. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music.

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