Morbid - Episode 238: The Phillip Island Murder

Episode Date: June 2, 2021

The night of September 22, 1986 was an absolute nightmare on Phillip Island. On an island known for its nightly penguin parades, no one expected to find a young woman brutally murdered on her bedroom floor. Elizabeth “Beth” Barnard was only 23 years old when she was discovered stabbed to death and left with the letter “A” carved into her abdomen. She’d been having an affair with a married man, Fergus Cameron. Did his wife Vivienne do this to Beth, or was it a stalker from her past? The Phillip Island Murder by Vikki Petraitis & Paul Daley As always thank you to our sponsors,  HelloFresh: Right now, you can get twelve free meals—including free shipping!--when you go to HelloFresh.com/morbid12 and use code morbid12. Babbel: Right now, when you purchase a 3-month Babbel subscription, you’ll get an additional 3 months for FREE!! Just go to BABBEL.com and use promo code MORBID Betterhelp: This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp and [Morbid: A True Crime Podcast] listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/[Morbid] Athena Club: Show your skin you care with the Athena Club Razor Kit! Sign up today and you’ll get 20% off your first order! Just go to Athena Club dot com and use promo code mtc Credit Karma: Go to CreditKarma.com/podcast to learn more and find offers tailored just for you. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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of your home. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's ANGI.com. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondries Podcast American Scandal. Our newest series looks at the Kids for Cash Scandal, a story about two judges who stood accused of making millions of dollars in a brazen scheme that shattered the lives of countless children. Listen to American scandal on Amazon Music or wherever you catch your podcasts. Hey weirdos, I'm Ash.

And I'm Alena. And this is morbid. It sure is. It's like kind of morbid in the morning, but I've been awake since like five, so I'm ready to go. My voice doesn't sound different. I'm what? I'm gonna wake since like five, so I'm ready to go. My voice doesn't sound different. I'm what? I'm let awake. It's true, you don't have that.

I love that. You don't have that like tired-ish voice. No, which I love still. Thank you. I love that voice. I don't even realize that I'm doing it, but when we do more, but in the morning and we listen back, it's literally like,

I'm like, yeah, and then this happened, and then halfway through the like, I'm like, yeah, and you know, then this happened and then like halfway through the episode, I'm like, yeah, they know, I know, guys. It's crazy. It's literally, it shifts so hard. Halfway through the city. Because I'll be editing it and I'm like, oh, you woke up. Like it's just like, you are as, you're there because it goes from like, yeah.

And then exactly what you just said it's like oh my god, literally I know he was wild and crazy crazy doing butt stuff with the devil join our Patreon if you wanted to know anything about that, but yeah I think we have like a little bit of business I was just gonna remind you guys that we do have a summer solstice show. That is actually coming up, baby, baby. It's gonna be June 20th, yes, at his father's day. Go find a dad and watch it with him.

And tickets are available at onlocationlive.com, slash category, slash morbid. If you didn't have time to write that down, you can just go over to the link in our bio, honey. Woo! And then we do have like a ton of new merch, which is like so dope. And it's really just like, it's, I love it. I've been wearing it almost every single day. So if you want to get you some of that, you can head over to shop. dot morbidpodcast.com. And if you're a Patreon, don't forget that you get 20% off. Woo! Look at that! Look at me doing the bit.

Look at that. Show, show, show. Show, show, show. That was a real quick show, show, show. Show, show, show. We love that. It was a chill, chill, chill, show. It was a chill, chill, chill, show, show. But if you have clicked on this episode, you know what we're talking about today. But honestly, before we jump in, I know that he's like no jump right into the case.

Like why are you still talking? What's up, girl? I just wanted to quickly say like, guys, Lakeland here. Okay, it's popping off right now. People are tweeting at me being like, bitch, are you psychic? Yeah, what? Anytime I feel like there have been times

where we will cover a case. Yes, and then your shit happens. I have been, we have both been sent, TikToks of like floating feet in the water. Yeah, I don't know if like maybe we can post it or something, but people keep tagging us in the, and thank you for tagging us because like holy shit. Yeah. In this ticktock where this guy is at Lake Lanier and is like happy, jaunty music. He's like just another day at a haunted lake. And the tire zoomed in. And there's clearly feet under the murky water.

And I was like, I have many questions. One, why did this pop up suddenly the day after we do the Lake Lanier episode? And then two, has anyone contacted this man and found out what is going on here or has anyone found these feet? And then not only that. We both just found out like 20 minutes ago

while we were just having a quick little brecky together That there was a fire at Lake linear and at least one person is I think it's a seriously injured So what is happening? Sorry, I don't know if we shook the the universe or what but like I know damn I don't know how to put it back if we do have universe shaking capability I hope that this case like shakes up something new because we've got an unsolved case. Unsacquired you today.

Airbunny spare bunnies. It's a confusing case, that's for sure. I'm excited to hear about it. We're gonna be talking about the Philip Island murder and the Philip Island disappearance, if that's gonna make sense to you. I'm ready. This is like the epitome of like small town

where everyone knows everybody and nothing ever happens until this. Until it happened. Yeah. So before we get into it, I actually just wanted to shout out the book, The Philip Island Murder. It was co-written by Vicki Petratus

and I've actually read a couple of her books. Yeah, and she was on Case File. And she was on Case File, and actually Case File did an entire, I believe, 10-part series on this specific case where they just went into, like, crazy detail. Vicki Petratus spent two years researching this case. Yeah. Yeah, before she wrote a book, and she said that she's still getting constant information. Wow.

That's awesome. It's crazy. Also, go listen to Case File if you haven't, because you'll enjoy it. Oh yeah, and let me pull up the name of the actual limited series. So it's presented by Case File. Guys, remember when Case File read an ad for Morbid? Elena, Lid, do you think of that every night before you go to sleep?

My world shattered. One that I think I was at work and you texted me and you were like ehh! And like sent me an audio clip and I was like I have like the audio clip like it's it was a huge deal. It was a big deal. I mean it's freaking out. Never gonna be a case file.

It's like one of my OGs. How do we collab with Case File since he's anonymous? Case File. At Case File. At Case File. How do we how do we collab with case file since he's anonymous case file At case file at case file can we collab I might I would you can do like the whole thing that like the anonymous group does I love where that on his face and we don't know who he is. We don't have to zoom we could do it over We could do it over the telephone if you want case file. We're just we can make anything work Are you free today me too at case file? We'll talk next year. I'm free every day. We're gonna want case file we're just we can make anything work are you free today me to at case file are you next year I'm free every day we're gonna talk case file we gotta make this happen

but thank you for that like little thing while I was pulling this back you all come I figured it out yeah I was right it is a 10-part podcast and it's called the vanishing of Vivian Cameron ah so go listen to it go listen to that if you want like a crazy deep guys dive deep Diziddi Diziddi like Lake and linear deep not not that deep not that deep well Philip Island is an Australian Island so we're over in Australia and it is calm to more penguins than it is people I mean I think every place should just be like that

that's really that's that just tells you exactly what's happened. Yeah. It actually has the largest little penguin colony in the entire world. Get the fuck out of here. Little penguin community. Little penguin community. And I didn't say like, oh, it has like a little penguin community.

It's like, no, it's literally a little penguin community. But it's gigantic. Oh, God stop. And every night there is a penguin parade where people can watch penguins all come out of the sea and into their little burrows for the night. I think that is the happiest place on earth. Like if we ever go to Australia, I don't even care about like putting my luggage wherever it needs to go. We're taking it with us and we're going to the penguin parade.

We're going to the penguin parade. And you might be saying to me, Ashkel, why the fuck are you talking to me about penguins on a true crime podcast? Well, don't worry. OK, good. Because it was while working at the penguin parade that a very well-established, well-to-do gentleman from a very prominent family in the area named Fergus Cameron

met a young attractive woman named Elizabeth Beth Barnard. Now Fergus and his family were prominent members in society because they were actually founding members of the founders. Founding members. They were founding members of the Philip Island Grand Prue Circuit, which is like a nice race track on the island.

Oh, OK. Yeah, it's like a big deal over there. Makes sense. Now, Beth was originally from Melbourne, Australia. Melbourne. She came to Philip Island to work in her family had a home on the island, so that's where she was staying. Fergus and Beth became friendly while they were working together

at the Penguin Parade. And after some time of knowing each other, she also started to help out on the farm that Fergus and his family owned together. So she was a farmhand, and they work together at the Penguin Parade, which I want to go work at the Penguin Parade. Yeah, I mean, come on. Ideal job.

You'll never work a day in your life. Seriously, do what you love. Our cousin Heather worked or used to work at the Aquarium. Yeah. And she was like in the Penguin exhibit. Oh my God. Yeah, she liked the coolest job ever. She also went to different continents and saveduins from like oil spills and stuff.

She's like a badass. Shout out to our cousin Heather. Shout out to Heather, the marine biologist. A, she wrote a book, didn't she? She was in the book, yeah. She was like in a movie about it. She's, yeah, badass. She's badass, but this is Australia.

Yeah, not Heather. Not, but we love you, Heather. Now, Fergus, Fergus was a married man. He was married to a woman named Vivian Cameron, who at this point you now know has disappeared at some point. Oh no. It's weird though. So Vivian was like a shy, somewhat awkward woman, but she, everybody that knew her like

like-turaged, she was a very likeable person, she was just a little bit shy and could be awkward sometimes. Yeah, who doesn't love Vivian? Yeah, I love Vivian. Well, I'm actually not a fan of Vivian. I'm just saying Yeah, who doesn't love Vivian? Yeah, I love Vivian. Well, I'm actually not Vivian. I'm just saying. I'm just saying. I love Vivian.

Viv, yeah. But their marriage always seemed to be a struggle and they actually had two young sons together and it was like after the last son was born that's when everything just really started to go downhill. That's sad. And she would ask Fergus to go to counseling but he didn't want to.

He was like very against it. And little did she know at the time, that was probably because he had a mistress. Oh, Fergus. Now the first night anything happened between Fergus and Beth was like somewhat by accident. But this whole story, I'm like, was it an accident?

Cause that just seems a little like too lined up. I mean, did they accidentally, they didn't accidentally like bump ugly, so I was like, you don't really accidentally. That's not an accident. But Beth had invited some friends over who worked at the Penguin Parade to have like a drink after work. But the only person that showed up was Fergus.

So you feel as though that must have been arranged. I mean, here I am. I don't know where you think. But I'm just saying, from my vantage point over here, looks a little sus. Yeah, because Beth was also a pretty popular girl at that workplace. So why would no one? She had a big friend group.

All the guys thought she was a very attractive woman. Yeah. Yeah. Seems like a setup. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ Hey there, fellow podcast listener, it's Elena. And Ash! And we're taking you back to the days before streaming services. Whoa!

You know when you would come home from high school and it was only a few hours until that TV show, everyone was watching was about to come on. Well, in 1999, that show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In our podcast with Wondery, the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer, we take it back to 1999. So get out your knee-high boots and paste that poster of Angel on the Wall. It's time to enter the Buffyverse.

Some of you avid morbid listeners already know what we've gotten store. Hey, wear nose. Join us as we sway our way through Buffy's drama, action and romance episode by episode. Slacy, follow the rewatcher, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon music or Wondery app. Darn, ee-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un- and they did end up bumping up a glaze. And from that point on, Fergus was just totally smitten.

He said that he would do anything he could to get extra time with Beth. Well, then end your marriage, man. Well, that's the thing. So they would sneak away into one of their cars during afternoon breaks to, you know, or Fergus would leave his house extra early in the morning to see Beth before the day started.

And it's like, you mean like leave his wife and children? Yes, that's true. That's his mixture, okay. Precisely what I mean. And it's like, you mean like leave his wife and children? Yes, that's his mystery. Okay. Precisely what I mean. And it's like for a guy that seemed to have absolutely no interest in fixing things with his wife, it's interesting that he didn't just separate. Well, that's that I'm like just separate. Right.

And then it's fine. I do whatever you want to do. He's well to do. Like it's not like he's going to lose everything. But I feel like some people, like, I think this in like so many instances where this kind of thing happens where you're like just devor, or like just separate. Just break up.

Yeah. Some people like that like forbidden fruit. Yeah, because it makes it more exciting. So they like that. And if they did separate from their wife, then they probably just break up with a girl too. Yeah, it just wouldn't be as fun. They like that.

They're like destroying lives. Yeah, that's awesome. And like doing it on the low low. Yeah. Which is like such another level of fuck. It's just really shitty. It's like the old expression like have your cake and eat it too. Yeah, it's like you can't though. Remember they told us that. They said you can't do it. No. You can't do it. It's part of the expression. It is. And the other thing is that if you had just separated from Vivian, none of this shit would have happened. Yeah. And it's like you then you could do whatever you want. Exactly, you're a single dude.

That's what you're into and you're not about it. About it in a monogamous married relationship and do what you want to do, but don't drag someone else down. Exactly. So the afternoon of September 22, 1986, Fergus decided that he was going to leave work early.

And I saw in a couple sources that he went to Vivian's parents' home because that they were like out of town. So I don't know if he and Beth ended up like going there together or if he was just there alone and had some alone time. But then he did end up seeing Beth after that. Like, he and he went to her house. Okay. Now Beth was pretty sick. She had had a sinus infection and like a flu-like thing going on. So I think he also just wanted to check in on her kind of thing. The problem was though that Vivian was starting to like get on to this whole thing. Like she was catching on to everything.

You always find out. Well, it's not like they were being secretive. Like people used to see them like fukin' in the car. Yeah, it's like, come on. Like no. And everyone in the town had been talking for quite some time about Ferguson Beth's affair. And Vivi and herself was starting to second guess the looks that she would see Ferguson Beth share together

because remember Beth works on their farm. Like, she's seeing this, you know? And she had recently caught them hugging each other in the barn and it was like not just like a friendly hug. Like she asked Ferguson about it and he actually said that she like kept punching him in the head afterwards like they got into like some crazy fight and he made her seem very very abusive like

but no one ever saw her hit him yeah so this is really just like it's just first getting certain sides of the story exactly exactly because that would not be cool no that's not like that's not cool to cheat on people, but it's also not cool to buy a five-year expo. Exactly. The whole thing seems to be a big mess. Yeah, it really is. So Vivian did call Fergus, and she realized that he wasn't at work. Like, he said he, like, not only did he say, he was going to be, she just like knew his schedule. Yeah, she's like, you're supposed to be there. So she made the decision, and she was going to confront him later that night. Now to pass the time she invited Ferguson's sister Marney over for a glass of wine. You should always have a

glass of wine before you're going to confront your cheating husband. 100 for the nerves. Yeah. Now Vivian had told Marney that she was worried that for for this wasn't being faithful, but Marney was like, I think everything's fine. Also, that's my brother, so I'm not gonna out him. Oh, what a weird position. Yeah, the family seems like a little too close because they all worked on the farm together, not like a little too close, but they definitely,

I think there's like some missing pieces to this story that some people have the answers to. But unfortunately, Fergus had no idea that his sister was up at bat for him all that time. And he didn't get home that night until 9.20. And then, when he got home, he was like, oh, hey, ladies. And then he went and took a phone call in the other room, because he was constantly getting work phone calls.

Of course. But he took a wicked log phone call and then just walked back in. And when he walked back in the room, he said that he could tell that Vivian was visibly shaken. Like she was like upset and that Marney seemed agitated and like excused herself and was ready to go. Oh boy. Now, so Marney was like, peace out, see you later. And Vivian was like, Fergus, where the fuck have you been

all this time? Yeah, and now you've sat there on the phone forever afterwards. Exactly, like you're just being rude. And so she basically, she just said like, fuck have you been all this time? Yeah, and now you sat there on the phone forever afterwards. Exactly, you're just being rude. And so she just said, where have you been? Like, what were you doing? And he shockingly just confirmed all of her suspicions and admitted everything about his affair with Beth. Damn.

I was at Beth's house like you're right. Like, we've been having an affair. Whoa. So Viv, right, Fullya, so lost her shit. Yeah. But then she took things a step too far, and she smashed a wine glass over Fergus's head. Oh, shit.

And then when it broke, she like stabbed him in the back with it. Oh my god. Like up the back. Holy shit. So that whole fiasco is going, there's like children sleeping in like, I don't know, they another part of the house. Fergus goes upstairs to figure out what's going on

with his head. She's probably just trying to clean up or whatever. And then they finally realize that he needs to go to the hospital. He's bleeding really badly from his ear and his back. I mean, she stabbed him. Yeah, literally. That's bad.

That's not okay. So Vivian is like, you need to go to a hospital. Like, I have to take you to the hospital. Like, let's call Marney back over here. And she can watch the kids and we'll go get that taken care of. Hello, Marney. I stabbed your brother. Yeah, literally. Sweet, sweet Marney, the poor, the poor thing. So Marney was like, okay, coming, coming right back. And her husband Ian went along with her back to Ferguson's yet again.

Oh my god, the yet again. Oh my god, yet again. This is bunker. So at the hospital, Ferguson's got his wounds all stitched up. He needed stitches to his ear and part of his back. And when he and Vivian got home around 1230, they sent Marne and Ian on their way so that they could speak privately. Yeah. And it was then decided that they were absolutely going to get a divorce.

For sure. So I read in a couple of sources that Vivian agreed that the children would be better off staying with Fergus on the farm and she would go back to Melbourne with her parents. But anyone who knew Vivian was like, no, that conversation. There's no way that it went like that because she was obsessed with her kids. Just a very doding mother, like never would have walked away. She never would have wanted to be like, you take them for the most part. No.

Exactly. And actually later, Fergus himself told investigators that he knew if he ended things with Vivian, that she would be the one to stay with the kids, and he and Beth would be living somewhere else. Wow. Like on, like, not on the island. So they finished their conversation. And Vivian was like, you know

why aren't you spending the night at Marney's house? Like I think enough has gone down here. Why don't you get the fuck out? I don't really want to sleep in the same bed as you. No. Please leave. So she drops him off at Marney and Ann's house. And you know, one might think it's so that she could have some time alone to reflect maybe cool off. Maybe she did that for a little bit. I don't really know. She returned home, she had a few hours, and around 3am, she phoned a friend to Robin Dixon, and she said to Robin Dixon, hey girl, can you watch the kids because I have to take furthest to the hospital. So can you come and just like, they're sleeping, can you just hang out with them? At 3am. At 3am, and also,

she had already taken furthest to to the hospital like that already happened. That was already thing that happened. So what the fuck was Viv up to? Well nothing good, that's for sure. Now when Robin got to the home, none of the adults were there. Vivian was already gone. So the kids were just sleeping in their beds.

Five of themselves. Yeah, she is. Exactly, I couldn't find their ages, but they were always referred to as a young. Yeah. Now, Robin assumed that she must have left in a hurry, too, because her purse was still there at the house. So the next morning, Robin still has the kids. Vivian never showed up back up to get them. What? And Robin wasn't getting any kind of answer when she tried to call Vivian. So she said, or so she needed to call Fergus because she had to go to work. So she said, or she needed to call Fergus

because she had to go to work. She's like, hey, Fergus, I have to go to work. This is what happened. Meanwhile, Fergus is like, what? He's like, no. She didn't take me the, like she took me the hospital one time, not two times. Like way earlier.

And he was, so he went to go pick up the boys, but now he was really concerned that something might have happened to Beth. Oh. Which seems to be a pretty big leap. Like Vivian's missing and didn't pick up the kids, but why is your immediate thought like, oh, I hope Beth's a bad... He must have something bad must happen at Beth.

So the night before... Or maybe you should worry about your actual life for the mother of your child for literally like a second. Like just one second. Maybe just put Beth over here for a second. This much. Maybe just like... Yeah, like just one second. Maybe just put Beth over here for a second. This much. Maybe just like, we're not a fan of Fergus, but he's rich.

Just give her a little bit of a thought. Exactly. So it's like, what? But I guess the night before at the hospital, he alleged that Vivian made some kind of threat against Beth saying like, I'm gonna kill that little bitch. Of course she did. You find out your spouse is cheating on you.

Of course you're gonna say. I don't care who you, and if you're listening right now and saying like, no, I But like, you find out your spouse is cheating on you. Of course you're going to say. I don't care who you, and if you're listening right now and say like, no, I want it. You would. You absolutely would. You would. I'm not saying you follow through on it and that it's okay. No, no, no, no. If somebody, if my spouse was cheating on me, the first thing I would say was, I'm going to fucking kill her.

Yeah, you might end you. You might get a little hyperbolic in that situation. Allow, allow yourself to get slightly hyperbolic. That's all we, you can get hyperbolic in that situation. Allow yourself to get slightly hyperbolic. That's all we can get hyperbolic when there's an affair. No, like I said, he hadn't taken that seriously at the time, but clearly something was going on now. So I think this is super weird. He asked his brother and his brother-in-law

to go check on Beth so that he could take care of the kid's situation. That just seems weird to me. Yeah. I don't have like a reason that I could put into words, but it's just something about it. It's like, why was that your first thought? Yeah.

And then why did you send them to go find her? Yeah, that's strange. I don't know, it's just weird. This whole thing is strange. Oh, just wait. It's also terrifying. So Donald, his brother, and Ian, his brother-in-law, headed to the house that Beth flipped in. And they made their way in through an unlocked back door that was like slightly open

still. So automatically- Already things are going great. Automatically shit's not good. And it did not take long for them to find her. Her bedroom was like one of the first off of the hallway and she was lying on the floor almost right in the doorway of her bedroom. She had her eyes were wide open and staring at the ceiling and there was a blanket covering her body all the way up to her nose. Damn. Now, that was on purpose. It was like, it was almost like whoever did this covered Beth with the blanket so that

the removal would somehow be more shocking than just finding her the way she was. Like a reveal. Yeah, because I know sometimes people are like, oh, well, that's like a sign of someone caring about something. Exactly, but always. And I think in this case, it was a little more like theatrical. Yeah, for sure.

So Donald and Ian obviously knew that Beth was clearly not okay and definitely not alive. They saw blood pooled all around her body. There was blood all over the room. There was a bloody hand print that had been made on the wall during the struggle. Yeah. It was later determined to be Beth's hand print.

Holy shit. So they ran to the, I believe it's the Cow's Police Station or Cow's Police Station. And they told Sergeant Cliff Ash that there had been a domestic argument over in Rill, I believe, size, I guess. What? A domestic argument over in real, I believe, size. What? A domestic argument.

How are you making that leap? There's literally blood all over the place. There's bloody handprints on the walls. Like this woman is covered in a blanket with blood pooled all around her. She's very clearly deceased and you're going to call that a domestic argument. Wow, they're really burying the lead. That's not domestic. What?

And it's not an argument. It's a final. Definitely not an argument. So when they're responding officers and just tricking, trick of warning, this is very intensive. They probably, when they showed up to this, they were probably like an argument. They were like, you're so mean to this. You really understood.

I'm pretty sure the sergeant was like, yeah, guys, like that's not what that's called. Just for future ref, I guess playing devil's advocate, because I guess that's my new thing. And maybe they were very, very shocked and they just didn't know what to say. Yeah, but I would definitely go and be like, there's blood everywhere, come help. Yeah, that's, if I was very upset. I don't know, it's very strange. So when the responding officers arrived on the scene,

what they found was jaw dropping. And if you missed it again, trigger warning. Trigger, trigger, trigger, trigger. So when the blanket was removed from that spotty, it became clear that her night gown was pulled completely lifted up and exposing both her upper and lower body. She had been stabbed and slashed at multiple times.

So badly that her neck bone was exposed. Damn. Her upper lip had been sliced in half, and the knife had knocked out her front left tooth. Blah! And that was now laying beside her body. Blah! She's like, T-thread now like this. I know, T-thinks with me out.

I watched like a quick little YouTube thing and it like showed a tooth flying out and I was like, how dare you do that to me? How dare you? She clearly though had put up a fight against whoever had done this to her. Her hands were covered in defensive wounds. One was in between the webbing, the, in the webbing between the thumb and index finger. And this is the most grizzly discovery of all.

Oh, no. The letter A had been carved deep into her chest. It covered nearly her entire torso, going from underneath her breast to the tip of her hip bones on each side. Like the scarlet letter A? Like the scarlet letter A. They got fucking literary with it.

They got so literary with it. That is fucked. One side was carved so deep that the skin was like flayed and there was fat exposed. Oh! Yes, they do believe, I mean, everything else, like she died a horrible, horrible death.

Yeah. But they do believe that she was dead when this was carved. When it was carved, holy shit. So at least there's that, but she suffered. To put a scarlet letter A, holy shit. Seriously? That's like a movie.

Literally. Now, there was some evidence left at the scene to be gathered. Next to Beth's body was a knife that was covered in blood. There were paper towels next to the sink soaked with blood. And they found a few cigarette butts that made it seem like whoever did this, like wasn't really in a rush to get out of there.

Just hanging out. Like definitely hung out for a minute. It's so weird. It was later determined that whoever had slashed Beth's throat had turned her head to the side when they were cutting because the cut was not in one clean sweeping motion. It was like a few jagged cuts. Yeah, like a carve, which is interesting. And they knew that her head had been turned to the side. So they assumed that somebody was maybe standing, obviously standing behind her and turned her head to the side because only one of her carotid arteries was severed and

the other was intact. Ah, yeah. So they must have like been behind her and twist her head and hold her head back to the side to like get a better view of her neck. Exactly. Oh, now it turned out that the gash in her throat measured 11 centimeters wide and 6.5 centimeters deep. So like, I mean, I'm not a doctor, but I would say that's nearly decapitated. That's rough. Like real close at least. That is real rough. In one source I saw it described as quote, cut, excuse me, cut to the neck bone like a slaughterhouse

animal. I can't imagine walking onto this scene. And when you think it's a domestic argument, yeah, that's like really ringing in my head of a domestic argument. Wow. Now Vivian was automatically the number one person of interest because, of course, by now everybody knew the affair was out in the open,

they had gone to the hospital the night before. He had gone with literays, pretty damning, I will say. Yeah, that knew the affair was out in the open. They had gone to the hospital the night before. He had gone with letter A. It's pretty damning, I will say. Yeah, that's the thing. And the land cruiser that she was presumably traveling in was spotted not only at 3.30 AM by Beth's neighbor. So Beth's neighbor saw the family car pull up to the neighborhood. But then it was spotted again around 5 AM

on the Phillip Island bridge. Now, it would be another few hours before the police located it in the same spot where it had last been seen. I think it was around 4pm when they were able to get to it. But we can assume that it had been parked there since 5am because there was many sightings of it. Okay. So she definitely was at the house at some point. And then parked on the bridge. So upon the disc, is this,

this is the skull, this skull, upon the discovery of the cruiser and what they found inside, investigators put two and two together and they assumed that Vivian Cameron had jumped off the bridge to her death after viciously murdering Beth.

Damn. Now inside the car, they found two packs of cigarettes that were definitely Vivian. bridge to her death after viciously murdering Beth. Damn. Now inside the car, they found two packs of cigarettes that were definitely Vivian. She smoked a lot. What was called a face washer, which if you're from Australia, is that literally just a washcloth? Like, I got a note. Yeah, like help.

But it was doused in blood and they found a carving knife. Now, I couldn't find anything to say that there was blood on the carving knife, but there was a carving knife in the car. Yeah. Which is like why you have a carving knife. Now, I couldn't find anything to say that there was blood on the carving knife, but there was a carving knife in the car. Which is like why you have a carving knife? And also interesting, because her neck was carved. Literally carved. Right, but I don't know if there was blood on it, so. Okay, a little weird.

So it's just there. Just there. As far as we know. Now, shockingly enough, Vivian Cameron was never seen again. They never found her body. There were divers that skinned the water beneath the bridge. There were helicopter searching, and they didn't even find one inkling of her left behind in the water.

And people think that's weird, because she wore glasses. So those would have fallen off, and you would think that you would have found those. Yeah. If she had jumped into the water, and I guess that night she had been wearing a scarf, and people were like, wouldn't that have come off? Yeah, you would have found to those. Yeah. Like, if she had jumped into the water, and I guess that night she had been wearing a scarf and people were like, wouldn't that have, like, come off?

Yeah, you would think. It's just hard to believe that, like, nothing turned up. Like, I was watching this little clip on it and it was somebody who was like, not even like a shoe, nothing. Yeah, nothing. That's shocking. It doesn't make any sense.

And the other thing is that if she did jump off this particular bridge to commit suicide, she would have been the first person to do so because there are zero other registered suicides from that bridge, not a single one other than presumably hers. But it seems unlikely to anyone who knew Vivian that she would one commit so chagrousa murder and number two, take her own life. Yeah. People around town knew her as even

tempered, funny, adoding mom. Like that, that wasn't her. She loved her kid. She was always with them. And actually the same afternoon that she went missing, it was like somewhat significant because she was supposed to bring fruit and milk in for her son's class. Like a, it sounded like like a volunteer thing. I no. It's like really sad. It's terrible. So if Vivian didn't do this to Beth, then like, who did? And why did they do it? Yeah, and that A is very like... The A really just...

If that wasn't there, it'd be like, wow, I'd still be like, who did that? Like, that's very coincidental, but that A is like a smoke sign. Yeah. But it later became no smoke sign. The smoke is like a smoke sign. Yeah. But it later became no smoke sign, smoke sign, a smoke signal. It's still the morning. It later became no no, that Beth had a stalker right around the time of her death, and things had recently become heated when she asked him to like, get the fuck away from her. So the guy stalking her was apparently somebody that she had some kind of relationship with in the past, but she had broken things off. The guy like never got the memo that she wasn't

interested. He would sit in his car outside of her house that night. He would mow her lawn when she wasn't home, which like if I could have a stalker do that, totally kidding. And he would also just leave flowers for her all the time. Yeah, no. It's super creepy. And it makes sense that if she did have a stalker, it's like, did this stalker, it said everybody knew about this affair. The affair, so that it could be a stalker. So it could be a stalker and use it as a...

Like you're an adulterist. Yeah, like it was supposed to be with me. Exactly and make it like pointing towards them. Right. So try to throw everybody off the trail. Right. I mean and make it like pointing towards them. Right. So try to throw everybody off the trail. Right. I mean, it's a very possible. It is.

Scenario. And now, so not too long before her murder, she had come home to him mowing the lawn, and she had had enough. She was like, this needs to stop. You need to leave me alone. You can't hold my lawn anymore. Like, you gotta get away from me.

Stop mowing my lawn. Come on. I'm doing it. And later, when she retold the story to Friends, she didn't seem to be like afraid of this guy. And this is actually on video, or excuse me, audio tape, because she had a friend that was like living a little bit far away, and they used to send like tapes

back and forth to each other. So actually, Fergus is on this particular tape, which is interesting. And they're just kind of like talking about this guy in a joking manner, but just some of the comments that she makes, like, I think she's trying to make it seem like she's not scared, but just, you can tell that she is scared a little bit.

It's like putting on like false provato, just to be like, because you're trying to convince yourself that you're not as scared as you are. I think that's exactly what it was. It's always pretty obvious when you're doing that. Yeah. Now I guess he was cleared by police, this particular man, but he left Philip Island,

not that long after Beth's murder, which that's always fucking weird. That's always shady. Always shady business. It's always sus. If you were planning on moving out before that all happened, you got to change your plans. Yeah, like change the closing date.

I don't know what to tell you. Change the plans. You got to. You got to. Because no matter Yeah, like change the closing date. I don't know what to tell you. Change the plans. You got to. You got to. No matter what, it looks weird. Yeah. What is it called? Like when you rent to somebody else,

like for a little minute, because you can't live there, like sub. Subletting. Yeah, it goes sublet your place to someone else. Yeah, just for a little while, to let all chills out. Now later on, this particular guy was actually talking to one of Beth's friends

and encouraged this friend not to speak with the police. What? Yeah. This is some shady shit going on here. And it's so shady that that's like all you can find on it. Like, yeah, like that's it. Like I read it.

Vicki's entire book and that's what, like, she has so much information in there about like other stuff, but there's certain things that everybody just can't crack through.. But what? Yeah. Like I don't get it. Now, Beth's friends also later confirmed that she was thinking of ending things with Fergus or at the very least like hitting him up with some kind of ultimatum. She was really struggling with the fact that this was going on with a married man. She knew his children because she worked on the farm and she told her friends that she didn't want to be the one to break up a family.

So she was having a hard time with it. So she was going to stay over here and go, stay, stay in my lane. Yeah, totally. Yeah, that means yeah, totally. So some of her friends in the beginning, which would have been us, were like, you need to run the other way.

This is a... This can quickly become a dangerous situation to get involved with somebody else's husband. Like nobody thought that this was gonna happen. Of course not, but in general, like when you're playing with fire, yeah, like getting involved in a situation like that, obviously again, no one deserves that kind of thing

by any stretch of the imagination. But you are putting yourself in a position where you are upsetting people on a galactic level. Yeah, and it's like whether it's his fault or not, you know what I mean? Like you are gonna be a target of hatred in this scenario. So it's like, you gotta back out of that. You gotta get out of that.

And when there's kids involved, it's, that brings it to a whole other level and it's like emotions go so much higher with that shit. Because now it's a family. Now there's kids involved. Right. There's just too much. It's like you just have to run the other way. Right. There's so many fish in the sea. There's so many fish in the sea.

But we can't, you know, we can't go back here. We cannot. So Beth, this is just like a spooky little tidbit. Beth and her friends had taken a trip about a year before she died. I think they were in the Maldives. And she spent a good time talking to them about her and Fergus's relationships. They all were talking about their relationships.

And while they were away, I guess there was a man that approached them and he was like, oh, I read palms. Like, can I read you guys' palms? And they were like, oh, yeah, that's fun. Like, sure. So the two friends went first and he did the whole thing, you know, and then he best presented her palm to be red. And he looked at it and paused and looked back up at her with this weird look.

And he was like, I'm too tired, like I'm sorry, I can't read your palm, like I gotta go. What? He was like, I just, he made up like some weird excuse and was like, I can't do it. I would have been terrified if I were her, because you know that's not. This man approaches you. Bad woman, bad woman, bad woman. And your two friends are like, you're gonna get married and have this many kids

and like, you know, maybe next summer might be difficult, but you'll get through it. And you're gonna have your hot girl summer next summer. And then he gets to you and he's like, no, sorry, I'm too tired. I'd be like, you gotta tell me what's gonna happen now. You're gonna like, something bad's gonna happen. So I guess at the time, I mean, they were young.

They were all like, 23 when she passed away. Or excuse me, when she was murdered. At the time, like they didn't think anything of it, but looking back, that must be so haunting. That's so weird. Because it's like, did he look at her palm and see that this was gonna happen? Or do you see that he probably saw

that something like bad was gonna happen? Like she was gonna get murdered. She was gonna die in some bad way. Yeah, and he was like, yeah, and a lot of these people won't like tell you the bad stuff. Yeah, like they just won't. Or like they'll ask you to like, do you wanna hear the bad stuff?

And I always say no. Yeah, like no, I don't, I don't, I usually just say like, I don't wanna know if I'm gonna die. You know what, that's, John has like a pretty like, like real psychic in his family tree. Yeah. Who is like since past a way like a long time ago,

but she was like a, like a known, you have to say how she was born. And that's always. Oh, and I guess like psychics are born. Like there's this like lore that they're born with like a veil on their face, like a, like a membrane of some sort. And she was. That's so crazy.

And John's grandmother never got readings from her because she was like, because she would only give you the good and the bad. She was like, I will not leave out one of these. John's a bad, you have to take it all or you don't take any of it. Right. And John's grandmother was like,

fuck no, I don't want it enough. So I feel you too, I wouldn't want to know. She was like, nope, I don't need to know because she was like, if I hear something bad, that's all I'm gonna think about. In my opinion, fate is fate. I don't wanna know. No, it's gonna happen anyway.

Because then it's all I'm gonna think about. I think about it. That's like, that's too much for me. The way she got wild. It's so creepy. Now, back to this. So that all happened and then they all looked back and were like, oh my God.

Oh my God. But back to this whole thing about Vivian killing herself. People that the people that aren't buying it point to this next piece of information as the smoking gun signal. So Glenda Frost, I thought you were gonna laugh at that. I was, but I was like, I was, but then I thought that it wasn't a fun signal.

This smoking gun signal. So Glenda Frost, a woman who Vivian worked with at the community house, actually spoke with police and told them that she had received a phone call on September 23rd, and she knew for sure that she was speaking to Vivian. Huh. They apparently spoke of sewing patterns and a specific gift that was going to be for another coworker. So this was a conversation that like Glenda was like, nope, this is Vivian, like only she knew about this specific pattern and maybe this specific gift.

And she also said that she thought she heard Vivian's two young sons in the background. And she was like, there's no way that she just committed a frenzied murder like Beth's and then just called me at 10 a.m. like, hey, what about the sewing pattern? And she was with her kids. Or that she would,

Glenda thought that she was with her kids or at least two voices were in the background. Huh. Yeah, that's interesting. So that was 10 a.m. And Glenda had somebody there to back her up. She was working with a friend named Pam that day at home like doing some sewing stuff. And Pam confirmed not only the day, but also the time.

Because this, like the police went over there to hear this whole thing. And obviously they were like, you probably messed up the day. but also the time. Because the police went over there to hear this whole thing, and obviously you probably messed up the day. But I guess it was like, there was gonna be some specific holiday on Thursday, but the people in Phillips Island celebrated the particular holiday on Monday, so they were home for the day.

So she was like, I know that it was Monday. Now, the time happened to be five hours after the car was spotted on the bridge, though. And Vivian, according to the police, should have already been dead at that point. Huh. Yeah. And by the way, remember how Robin had noticed Vivian's purse was at the house when she went to go watch the boys? Robin said not only was it there that night, but it was there the next morning. That doesn't make any sense, though, because Vivian's purse was later found

abandoned in the car. But Robin was like, no, I saw her purse that day. Like, I know. And it, she was like, it was that purse. Wow, the plot thickens. The plot thickens so much and it's only going to get thicker. This is oozy. So that doesn't make any sense. So that led some people to believe that maybe she had come home at some point, she must have. But that doesn't make any sense. So that led some people to believe that maybe she had come home at some point She must have, but that doesn't make sense because she wouldn't have been able to take the land cruiser because so many people had seen it parked on the bridge. So was she working with like somebody else and like She stopped home. Let's add some corn starch to this because it's thickening. It's thickening literally and some corn starch to this because it's thickening. It's thickening literally.

And the purse would have had to have been placed in the car some time after Robin left and before the police got to the bridge. So Robin left probably like in the morning at some point, I don't know the exact time, but the police got to the car at four. So I guess there was time for it to be maybe planted there to make it look weird or like,

this is why I don't know. I just don't understand the the significance yeah point like why would you do that and again we would have to assume that Vivian would have had to go in a different car so it's like would wouldn't you think that she would have been spotted at least like I remember when like Felmetod was supposed to be dead at a certain point and like four people were like oh no I saw her in a car like I talked to her on the phone because I mean I'd I assume if if you're leaving the car there, you're trying to make it look like you're dead.

So it's absolutely. Obviously, you'll leave it there. But it's like, this is just so strange. It's super weird. And it's only going to get weirder. Because in the 1990s, DNA testing, baby. DNA. So they were able to do some DNA testing

on some of the evidence, dude, I can't. So strangely enough, Vivian's blood was found on the knife left beside Beth's body, but none of Vivian's DNA was found on Beth's body. DNA. Again, her DNA was found on the knife, like her blood was found on the knife. The oxygen ribonocleic acid.

Correct. But not on Vivian who she, excuse me, not on Beth, who she presumably like visibly went crazy and murdered her. There's no fucking way. Yeah, that's a, that's our heads. And one of the other things that they thought when they had looked over Beth's body

was that whoever had killed her had smeared the blood all around her, had rubbed it in almost. Oh, which is like, I don't even know what you do. I don't even know what the significance of that is. Exactly. And then, so the knife lying next to Beth's body was covered in blood that could belong to Vivian, or about 30% of the population with the same blood type and groupings.

So that's not necessary. People love to be like, and that was her blood. It can always be attributed to a couple other people. And I feel like that's important to note because the other thing is that the knife laying next to Beth's body didn't necessarily match up with the wounds that were covering her body or the puncture marks and the clothing that she had been wearing, which is weird. Now the knife lying beside her was just like a straight up kitchen knife, but the markings on the body and the clothes show like one large tear, like vertical tear, and then two smaller ones, like next to it on the bottom.

Oh, okay. Now, Vicki, who co-wrote the book that I mentioned in the beginning, she actually spoke with a knife expert after speaking with the forensic scientist who went over all the evidence in Beth's case, and he doesn't think that the knife lying next to Beth's body was used to kill her. It makes sense. If it's just a plain old kitchen knife, that doesn't seem like that would make that cut.

No, definitely not. Now, so he doesn't think that either. And I mean, he's fucking forensic scientist. Yeah. And it was what he's talking about, you know. But so Vicki decided to go a step further. And she spoke with a knife expert who told her about this knife that was popular around the time that Beth was killed.

And he told her in that now the knife was actually banned. Like, they're not sold anymore. But he did send her some sketches of it. And it had one long blade and then two sharp prongs on either side. So if you were to stab somebody like going down, it would be like the one marking and then the two on the side.

So it would make sense. Oh, I think I know exactly what kind of knife that is. I can close the sketch of ahead. Yeah, it's like, yeah. It almost looks like a floor delete. It's the only thing I've been seeing to compare it to. I was thinking of, yeah.

So that's the kind of thing that it was. But I didn't see anything else that went from there. Like from there like okay, so we don't think that was the knife But like it has her blood on it, but I'm the blood like her DNA is a non-beth I don't understand Where and then every time you start to think okay like is Vivian innocent? There's another bend in the road her DNA was found only towel, the knife, and then cigarette butts found in the house. So she was there. I was going to say so she was there.

She absolutely was there. Now the towel that was found in the bathroom only contained Vivian's blood. None of Beth's blood was found on the specific towel. I mean, I guess you could assume that if they had used this to clean up, there would be plenty of blood to clean up, then Beth's blood would have gotten on it. Unless somehow, I mean, it would be remarkable if she didn't cut herself while doing like committing this crazy act. And so, Beth had a lot of defensive wounds. Right. She was fighting back. Exactly. So I would think that Vivian definitely got cut somehow and maybe just use that towel. Yeah. So, I don't, it's just, it's so weird because you think you know.

Yeah. I mean, I'm leaning, yeah. She was there. She was there. Like, what was she doing there? Yeah. It's just, it's so crazy. Yeah.

I think it doesn't float well. No, it definitely doesn't. Now Vivian's blood was also found in her own home, although she hadn't been treated at the hospital after like during her infurge's visit there, like she wasn't treated for anything. Yeah. So that's why some people think

that the crime wasn't committed solely by Vivian and have questioned things over the years of like was somebody else there with her. Yeah. Because maybe she went home to like maybe like say goodbye to her kids or something like that. Like and like they don't remember it because they were so little or like they didn't wake up or something. Yeah. And she had gotten blood on the floor from like a wound that she had. Yeah. I mean, that makes sense to me. Absolutely. I think that's like the

only possibility thing that you could think of. Now I but I really don't know who would have been there that night. If she hadn't done it alone because Fergus was at his sister and brother in law's house the entire night before. Yeah. And no one heard him leave and they checked on him like early the next morning and he was sleeping. Yeah. But some people do find it shady because Fergus held like a memorial at the farm for Vivian when she technically wasn't officially dead yet. I guess when somebody disappears it has to be like seven years before the road dead.

They're all dead declared dead. But she, and obviously hadn't been seven years yet. And other people point out the fact that Vivian had a very big share in the Philip Island Grand pre-unit or circuit too. Oh, so it's like, could that have something to do with it? That's interesting. Because she did have a will in place.

And I guess that share would have been left to someone. So maybe they kind of just had to have this memorial and figure out what to do with her will. Oh, maybe. And then the people that are like, like sort of on Ferguson side, are like, it also was a really important thing to do for the boys,

because like they need to experience a normal grieving process. I can understand. Yeah, I do not think that's weird. As much as I want to like kick Fergus in the ass just for being a shitty husband, yeah, I don't think that's shady. I don't think that leads to you automatically

are a murderer as well, are like a, you know, no, I think you're just kind of a jerk. You can be shitty in one spot, not shitty in every spot, you know, so I don't want to like totally cast him as like, and I agree with you. I think it's, I think he was just a shady husband. And I think he was trying to do a version. And I think that might have been for the kids.

Absolutely. It would make sense. I would hope that would be the reason because that would be a healthy thing to do. I would think so. So a coronal inquest did put some people's mind to rest. I guess in July of 1988, the corner, BJ Mayor, said a Vivian quote,

although her body has not been found, I am satisfied that she is dead and that she left, left from the San Remo bridge in the water below. And I am satisfied that the deceased contributed to the cause of death of Beth. I mean, yeah. Yeah, I could see all of that being true. I could too. I think people kind of want to make it more of a mystery than it is. Yeah, it's always one of those things where you think like she took off and she's living somewhere and suddenly she's going to pop up somewhere. I mean, they never found her body and it is crazy.

It's possible. Some of the divers were like, no, like we searched every single inch of that. Yeah. I mean, when you don't have a body, it is always possible. Yeah. You can't 100% say exactly. Sure, he can be satisfied that she's dead and that's fine. And we can all say sure that makes sense.

Right, but there is a possibility because there is no body. Absolutely. If they don't know. Even some of the detectives, like the original investigators on this case have differing opinions from each other. Oh, I believe that. Oh, I can, I believe that they probably have like so many different theories. Oh, I mean, you would have to. Like, each other. Oh, I believe that. I believe that they probably have

like so many different theories. Oh, I mean, you would have to. Like, it's just all, it's not talking about that either. Yeah, it's just wild. But people on Philip Island apparently do not like to talk about the murder of Beth. Really? Or the disappearance of Vivian.

I mean, we actually had a listener who suggested this. And they spent some time living on Philip Island and they weren't able to talk to any of the locals about it. Really? And then Vicki's book that I've mentioned was banned on the island. You could not buy it on the island. And then there was a newspaper that was like put out

on one day that was supposed to be like, it was like a full headline all about the murder and the disappearance. And a group of people went around and bought every single one so that you couldn't purchase them. What? Which is fucking weird. That's why I love it.

It's fucking weird, dude. What's going on in there? And Vicki said when she tried to speak with people on the island about it, they were very reluctant to speak with her. And they warned her, like, not to write the book. They were like, you could be sued or like, it's just not a good idea. But she was like, there's trying to intimidate me. Like, fuck you, I not to write the book. They were like, you could be sued or like, it's just not a good idea. But she was like, there's trying to intimidate me,

like, fuck you, I'm gonna write my book. They have a penguin parade. You're not supposed to be like covering up a murder. There's more penguin than a penguin. Was it the penguins that took all the newspapers? They're trying to like, you know, just protect all the penguins. Right.

Because, wow. It's so crazy, dude, but that is the case of the Phillip Island murder. That's so nuts. I think you should all go listen to like the 10 part, like that Vicki has done, because I can't imagine, I bet it's amazing. I wanna listen to it now.

I'm always so reluctant to listen to a podcast if I'm gonna do a podcast on it. Yeah, of course. Because like, you don't wanna like- I like to listen after. Yeah, you don't wanna like subconsciously like have something in your mind and then you're like, oh fuck, why'd I say that? Yeah, you think like, they're series now, you're series. Yeah, I don't want that subconsciously have something in your mind and then you're like, oh fuck why do I say that? Yeah, you think like their theory is now your theory

To subconsciously happen, but now I'm excited to listen to that That's what I always love to do is listen to it after we do the case Yeah, and nine times at a time like oh man Well if I hear anything good I can share it on my next episode and just be like oh my god According to Vicky this is good listen, But definitely also buy her book, The Philip Island Murder. It's by her and a man named Paul Deely. And he was involved in writing the newspaper. Oh, yeah.

He worked for the particular newspaper that like put out the papers. That is so wide. It's crazy. That's wide. It's this entire case. I've been having nightmares about it. That it isn't a,

yeah. The A is so, like that is such a piece of, I mean, to me, that's a smoking gun almost because it's just so, it's on the nose. Yeah. So pointing to what is going on here.

And this was just pure rage. Well, that's the way that she was killed. Yeah. Rage. Like absolute rage. There's no other. But it's like, could it have been Vivian, I think, did it for sure.

Yeah, I mean, in my opinion, it sounds like she did it. I mean, her DNA is like there and shit like that. Yeah, I don't know how her blood is on the towels. Like, something bad happened at that place. But like, what if Vivian and the stalker met up? Because they were like, That's the other thing, it's like you know. Maybe she knew him, it's a small island.

Yeah and apparently everybody knew everybody's shit. Right, because everybody knew the affair and everything and then everybody's so reluctant to talk about it now. I think it's because they are so tight knit that they know everybody's stuff and they, they're like, no. Like I think it's like one of those like, yeah, I'm stuck in packs that like we don't talk about it. We don't talk about it.

We talk about it. Well, and I think they protect their own over there. Well, that's what I think they're like. The Cameron family is a very prominent family with like business dealings everywhere at Island. So I don't, I think people are like, I'm not fucking with that. I'm not talking about them. I'm not doing anything with this.

And I honestly, I can't really. And Ferguson pretty sure still lives on the island. Yeah. So. Whoa. Fucking crazy, dude. That's crazy. I'm poor Beth.

I know. She just got wrapped up in a bad situation. That's exactly what it was. And it's sad because it seems like she was kind of getting to the point where she was like, where she was seeing I can't do this anymore like you need to leave your wife or we need to end things. Yeah that makes sense. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah. Wow Philip Island. Philip Island with the penguins and the murders. Man you have the best and the worst. You really do. Oh really do. You have a penguin parade.

You're literally on the penguin parade. I want to go to the worst. You really do. Oh, really do. You have a penguin parade. You literally have a penguin parade. I want to go to the little community of penguins. But huge little community of penguins. A bunch of people requested this case. I saw like, I think there was like five separate emails in our emails being like, please do this. Awesome.

So, yeah, your suggestions are the tips. Get literally, I've been finding so many new things that I'm like gonna shout you guys out and be like, oh no, there's a judge. Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, like gonna shout you guys out and be like Oh no, there's a judge Oh no, there's a judge Cuz you guys are the best We love you But yeah, that's crazy and thank you for that

Welcome so much And yeah, we stay tuned for some cool stuff this week Yeah, we got cool stuff going on We got some cool stuff And we hope you keep listening And we hope you keep it We're but not so weird thing you just are like like like Not to worry that you don't just like go to the penguin parade and stay there and like have so much fun on Philip Island

Like definitely don't murder anybody on Philip Island because you don't want to keep it that weird. Thank you. Good night Thank you good night by Philip Island So insane so we'll win the same. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. survey at Wundery.com slash survey.