Morbid - Episode 240: The Lady of the Dunes

Episode Date: June 13, 2021

We’re bringing you to one of our favorite vacation spots: Provincetown Mass. Only we aren’t sunbathing and playing volleyball on the beach, we’re here to solve a cold case, y’all. The Lady of the Dunes, as she’s known, was discovered  on July 26, 1974, in the tall grass at the Race Point Dunes. Throughout the past 47 years investigators have worked tirelessly following up on leads and exhuming her body every time some kind of new technology comes up. To this day they still don’t know who killed the woman, or more importantly, who the woman even is! As always, thank you to our sponsors: HelloFresh: Get twelve free meals—including free shipping!—with code morbid12 at HelloFresh.com/morbid12 BetterHelp: This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp and Morbid: A True Crime Podcast listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com/Morbid CareOf: For 50% off your first Care/of order, go to TakeCareOf.com and enter code morbid50 Simplisafe: Visit SIMPLISAFE.com/morbid today to customize your system and get a free security camera. You also get a 60 day risk free trial, so there’s nothing to lose!! Gabi: Put your policy to the test like I did. Get better insurance with Gabi. Go to Gabi.com/MORBID See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wonderypod or text wonderypod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. Angie's list is now Angie, and we've heard a lot of theories about why. I thought it was an eco-move. For your worst, guess paper. It was so you could say it faster. No way. It's to be more iconic.

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That's ANGI, or download the app today. Hey, weirdos. I'm Melena. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid and its local domesti-tusits. The way you said it, it's local to Massachusetts. Hello! I get excited about these. You should. I do. I like covering ones from Massachusetts. It's kind of my thing. It's kind of your thing.

Well, do we have any business before we stay in Massachusetts? Before we stay in Massachusetts. Do we have any business? I believe we might have. Yeah, we definitely do. We have a show coming up next Sunday. Oh, that little thing. It's Father's Day.

So come celebrate with your daddy or your daddy figure. Oh, your daddy figure. And you can get tickets to that at onlocationlive.com slash category slash morbid. And if you can't remember that or rewind fast enough, the link is in our Instagram bio. There you go. We also have some new merch. Maybe it's not new to you if you've seen it, but if you haven't seen it, it will be new to you. And you can get that at shop.morebidpodcast.com

Do it sweatshirts are fun sweatshirts are the bestest they really are and t-shirts and socks and mugs and I think that's all we have for now all of it. That's beanies all of it Things that say more but are the best it really is you know it we know it the world knows it. Yeah but are the best. It really is. You know what we know it. The world knows it. Yeah. So one weird thing happened that kind of goes along with this episode because it happened

to Massachusetts. It happened in Provincetown, didn't it? It did. It happened in Cape Cod, yeah. But like, so right around there. Yeah. But yeah, this guy, Michael Packard, who is like a veteran lobster diver, which lobster fisherman? Wild. No joke. We have veteran lobster diver, which lobster fisherman?

Wild. No joke. We have a cousin that's a lobster fisherman. We do, is a lobster man. Shout out to Annie. To Annie. Yeah, it's a badass job. It is a very dangerous job.

And this guy, Michael Packard, got swallowed by a humpback whale and then spit out. I mean, we're happy for the latter part of that story. Very happy for the ending. Imagine having that life experience. Well, and I guess like his crewmate was on the boat and this guy was going down to check the traps. And he said he just watches like the bubbles

to make sure that he's like still alive essentially. Yeah. And he said all of a sudden he saw this like crazy explosion of bubbles and he's like, oh my God, he died. And I said all of a sudden, he saw this crazy explosion of bubbles. And he's like, oh my God, he died. And I can't do anything about it. Like literally, you're just in there, help us. And the guy, I guess, thought it was a shark

that had got him. So he was like, oh, I'm dead. Like he was like, this is it. He said, I'm done, I'm dead. All I could think about was my boys. They're 12 and 15 years old, which like kills me. And he was breathing through like a breathing regulator at the time. Right.

Inside of a humpback whale. Well, he said, I mean, that up. He said, no, it was a humpback whale. Oh, okay. It was a humpback whale. It's the morning. And apparently he was like struggling because he was breathing through that apparatus. Right.

So he was struggling and the whale was like, wow, I just need to eat you. Right. Like, you're not what I eat. Right. And so I think the whale felt bad that he had eaten him. And so he brought him to the surface to spit him out. We love a whale.

We love a whale. Which I guess he said within like 30 seconds. He said, but he said for a brief moment, he thinks he was swallowed. Well, yeah, he must have been. Like not just hanging out in his mouth. What the fuck? Isn't that fucked up?

Can you imagine going home and like your wife is like, hey, how was your day at work? And you're like, oh, actually, I got swallowed by a humpback whale. How was your day, sweetie? I got swallowed by the humpback whale. They initially thought he had broken both of his legs. Yeah. And they were like, he at least broke one. He apparently didn't break any bones.

When he went to the hospital. Yeah, he went to the hospital. He just had a soft tissue damage. Oh. Yeah. What the fuck? And I guess an expert said that humpback whales are like gulp feeders. They just slurp and gulp. They just get as much as they can down. Yeah. So this was definitely like an accident. He just happened to be there. And I think he was just gulping up food and having to suck him in.

That I think that happens in finding Nemo like actually. Yeah. And then there's, I guess there's a marine mammal expert, Peter Corcoran. And he's from the New England Aquarium, which our cousin worked at. Hey, I was just there the other day. Yeah, she's amazing.

And he works there, and he was saying that the, basically, him, the whale bringing him to the surface to spit him out, he said, it's perfectly believable that the whale was trying to help him. Shut up, I love this whale. Because there's evidence that say that humpbacks can be altruistic towards humans. Shut the fuck up. Yeah, it's like how elephants think work you. Yes. Yeah, it's the same kind of animals.

I do too. I'm not that I want to get swallowed by a humpback whale, but like, wow. But I think it was just like, it was a whoops moment for that whale. That would be embarrassing. And he decided that he was going to try to make good at the end. It was embarrassing. He was probably really shame. Imagine having that under your belt for two truths and a lie. Yeah. I was born here. I like the color blue.

And I was swallowed by a black whale. And they're like, okay, that's the line. You're like, I actually love the color red. I hate blue. I'm like, that's an amazing story. I thought I had a good one. Mine is just that I was born in Hawaii. Yeah.

People are always like, you too. That's the line. I feel like, no. But I was not swallowed by a humpback. No, you were not. Maybe I'll still use it in two truths and a good one. Mine is just that I was born in Hawaii. Yeah. People are always like, you too. That's the line. I feel like no. But I was not swallowed by a humpback way. No, you were not. Maybe I'll still use it in two truths in a lie though. I think it's a good one. And you know what, Michael Packard?

I'm really glad that you're okay. Congrats. Yeah, congrats. And make sure you tell your boys because they're gonna love that story. Also, are you gonna go back to lobster? I'm sure he will. He probably will.

Those people are always just bad ass. Yeah, they're just, they don't care. Like that's just, they know the ocean. They know the dangers of the ocean. And they're just like, yeah, yeah. I'm okay. Like I think at one point, he was like at least it was in a shark,

which you're like, yeah. But it was still a whale that swallowed you. Yeah, like you were in the bell of a whale. Yeah, that's scary. That's crazy. Also, it took everything in me and now I just like, can't get past it. When you said like whales are gulp feeders, I was gonna say same. Yeah, I's scary. That's crazy. Also, it took everything in me and now I just like, can't get past it. When you said like, whales are gulp feeders,

I was gonna say same. Yeah, I figured. And I couldn't let that joke go. I figured, you had to bring it right back down. It hits different after the fact that it still hits. It does. You're welcome. I think a lot of people can relate.

Yeah. But yeah, so that brings us nicely into the episode today, which is the crazy, mysterious and gruesome case of the Lady of the Dunes. It's unsolved, very unsolved. And now I wanna solve it. Whenever I get into one of these cases really hard, I'm like, well, you know, things do happen

after we cover cases. They do, and It breaks me out. I feel like this reminds me of the Karina Holmer case the way I want to solve it. Like I really want to solve that case. And I really want to solve this case and they're both Massachusetts. I solved the Karina Holmer case.

Yeah. Yeah. I know who did it. I know what you did last summer. But I want it like solved. Yeah, I want it on the book I know what you did last summer. But I want it like salt. Yeah, I want it on the book. You want a real detective team. I need to know more information.

We need to get like Billy Jensen in here. We need to solve this citizen detective style. Let's do it. Billy, let's go. We're gonna solve this. Did you hear us? Can you hear us, Billy? Bring Paul.

Always bring Paul. And we'll go, we'll solve this. We should just get like a true crime squad together. Let's do it. Sarah Turnie, like she's clearly doing the thing. Sarah Turnie, you're on the squad. We have to get Bailey's area and because we're newly best friends.

And she can make us look good too. Yes. So while we're doing this. Yeah, I think that's, honestly, that's the dream team. It really is. I'm sure we'll think of more later. We'll add to the squad because it's early and I mean the entire morbid network after that.

Exactly. Ever about it. Ever about it. All right, so guys, what's pack your bags? Come to Massachusetts. We're doing this. You see, we're gonna solve the lady of the dunes case. But let me tell you about it first so that you can,

you guys can decide afterwards if you want to join the squad. Yeah. So first of all, if you happen to have any information about this case, because it is a pretty well-known case, especially around here, you can direct any tips, any information, anything that your grandparents may have slipped out at some point at dinner time.

At supper. Oh my God. At the supper table, if they sat there and they told you that one time they were in P town, and it was July July, it was hot and I stumbled upon this dead body. The here is where you can tell the Provincetown Police Department 508 487 1212 or 508 487 1213. Or if you have any information about the unidentified body that we are going to talk about, call the office of the chief medical examiner at 617-267-676767. A, so make sure you call those if you have any information.

So I'm gonna start this off with a quick little quote that's gonna like sum it up for you what we're gonna talk about. Alrighty. For the last 47 years, investigators have been struggling to identify the lady of the dunes, a handless corpse that was found nearly decapitated on a Massachusetts beach. So that's going to tell you everything you need to know about it. There it is.

There it is. Now, it is wild to me. It's always wild to me when we can't find who did something, even if we have the identity of the victim, because people should never be able to get away with this stuff, especially now. Right. But we don't even know who she is. That's the thing that is nuts to me, is that we don't know who this woman is.

I know. No one's been able to identify her. It's so scary. And when I start telling you who she was, how she was found, you're going to see that it's strange, because as they say, you're gonna see that it's strange because as they say multiple times, she seems well taken care of. Right.

Like she didn't come across as somebody who was like, you know, going from place to place, or down on her wall or anything. Down on her wall or anything. Or not, maybe wasn't connected to people. She seemed like she interacted with people quite often. Okay. Hey there, fellow podcast listener. It's Elena.

And Ash. And we're taking you back to the days before streaming services. Whoa. You know when you would come home from high school and it was only a few hours until that TV show, everyone was watching was about to come on. Well, in 1999, that show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

In our podcast with Wondery, the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer, we take it back to 1999. So get out your knee-high boots and paste that poster of Angel on the Wall. It's time to enter the Buffyverse. Some of you avid morbid listeners already know what we've gotten store. Joernos.

Joernos says we sway our way through Buffy's drama, action, and romance. Episode by episode. Slacy. Follow the rewatcher, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Darryl! Darryl! Darryl! Darryl! So what happened was a bit after 6 p.m. on Friday, July 26, 1974. A 12-year-old girl named

Leslie Metcalf was at Race Point Dunes in P-town. She was following a barking dog, it was a beagle, and she had been with friends at the beach. Leslie's sister Alyssa had sent in an interview later that she was at the stables that day, but her sister and some friends had gone to the beach to play. They had been hanging around and at a dune shack that family friends were renting. And a dune shack is exactly what it sounds like, but they were originally built like a century ago, or a century, a century earlier than like 1974. Yeah, exactly.

But they were originally built as cabins for like these crews of people who would keep watch for ships so they wouldn't run aground in bad weather. And they're just they're exactly what they sound like, just little shacks all across the dunes. Yeah. Now after a while they turn them into like beach rentals and places where like local artists or like you know creators of any kind could set up and sell their wares out of. They're all over the place in B town.

Exactly. And on the cape in general. Exactly. Now, her parents were there as well, and there were two dogs in the shack. When they were all ready to head home, they were just going to walk across the beach and the dunes and go back home. They started walking in one of the dogs, the beagle, followed them. Which was fine.

He was just walking down the beach with them. But then he kind of veered off the path and started barking wildly, like clearly trying to tell them something. He was very clearly indicating something he had found. Right, that was for sure. So Leslie was like, hmm, what? Because she's 12. I want to know what that dog's doing. I mean, I'm 35 and I'd be like, hmm, I want to find out what that dog is barking at. And she followed him as I would. And when she ran off the beaten track after the dog, she quickly noticed a motionless form laying in the dunes. Oh my goodness.

And it was surrounded by tall grass. Now she said she thought the body initially was a deer at first. Not a mannequin this time. Not a mannequin. She thought it was a deer. And she said, you know, she was upset enough about possibly running into a dead or hurt deer. Yeah. That's still shitty. Of course. But then she saw the form completely. She made out some legs and feet and she saw hair tied up into

a ponytail and caked with blood. Oh my goodness. And she realized that she was looking at a human body. There Just poor little 12 year old. 12 year old. Yeah, 12 year old. She could also smell the scent of decomposition nearby. Like, you know, she had been there for a while in the summer sun. So she was bacon. That's kind of sick. Now what had happened though was it was really hot.

It's hot summers here and on P-town. And it's right next to the beach. Right next to the water. Massachusetts water is not like crystal clear Caribbean water. Love that dirty water. So that smell of like the ocean and all that is can be gnarly. But it's something you just expect here that you're going to have that beach smell. Just get hit in the face with like red tide. Exactly. So it's like, so this smell of this decomposing woman in the sun for what they think could have been,

you know, up to more than a week. Wow, I didn't know it was that long. Yeah, they think it was just kind of mixing with the, which tells you something about what the ocean smells like here. Yeah. That people were just like, man. Well, they're probably like mad bodies

in our oceans too. Yeah, they're probably like mad bodies in our oceans too. So yeah, they're definitely are. So she could definitely smell it the closer she got. And their parents said that all they heard was her say, mom, dad, like she didn't scream, she just said, mom, like a little hole. So her parents wanted to see what was wrong and they discovered the body.

Yikes. So this body was only found about a mile away So her parents wanted to see what was wrong and they discovered the body. Yikes! So this body was only found about a mile away from the Provincetown Police Station. Oh wow, which is interesting. Now they immediately ran to the Dune shack that they had been at and they contacted the Rangers. Leslie's recollection was that the clothing on scene was very neatly folded and placed under this woman's head.

She could see some clothing. And she said she immediately saw that this woman was naked, that her hands, she didn't see initially that they were missing. And we'll get into that. But she said her hands were buried in the sand. Gotcha. Luckily Leslie didn't see that the head was almost aghapitated. She said she seemed like she almost looked like she was asleep and sunbathing in the nude.

Did it seem like she was face down? She was face down, not she was all the way face down. Apparently the family friends who had rented the Dune check that summer said they never rented that check again. They never returned to the Dunes again because they were so disturbed by the soul. Yeah, I would be too. And Leslie Sister Alyssa said their family had been

visiting P-town for years at this point. Yeah, I would be too. And Leslie Sister Alyssa said their family had been visiting P-town for years at this point. And it was a very safe area. Yeah, especially. It was like very safe. I mean, kids could walk around without their parents. They could run around on beaches and in the dunes to play. No one thought anything of it.

It's that whole thing of like quiet, quaint little town. It is. Nothing a quiet and England town. It is. It's a quiet and wangling town. It is. And it's, it is. This is weird. So Alyssa, the sister, also said that no one really interviewed them about their experience, the family.

And likely just went off of the Ranger story for details. Usually papers and stories say that Lesley was walking her dog and just came across the body But that's not accurate and I did find many stories that started off with a 12-year-old girl walking her dog And that's wrong. I know it's not like totally pertinent to the infertile like that she was chasing a dog That wasn't hers. Yeah, but still you should get the impression right but it makes it seem like this 12-year-old girl Was just alone walking her dog and stumbled across it and that's just not what happened. Well, like to not mention that the parents also saw something exactly because the I guess I think the reason that they probably do that is like oh, it's a 12 year old so like that's why we didn't really interview her

Exactly. We just let it go. It's like So Park Ranger James Hankins was the first officer arriving on scene and he said she was laying face down first officer arriving on scene. And he said she was laying face down naked on a green beach blanket. He could see red hair and that she had been severely beaten over the head. She was also seemingly missing her hands, he said, they were not buried.

He and other media outlets said the hands were shoved into the sands with pine needle piles around them, like her arms, like where her hand should be. And it made it look like she was doing push-ups. Weird. Yeah. And he was quoted as saying, it was ghastly. It was as if she had been laying there alone

or on a blanket with someone and someone came up and clubbed her. There was no signs of a struggle. Even the sand hadn't been disturbed. Wow, that's so weird. And that's something that a lot of people talk about is there was zero sign of struggle. People say it did not look like she was fought here, it didn't look like it looked like she was there and was caught off guard. Well, for there to not be like even like maybe blood splatter on the sand.

Yeah, that's weird. It's wild. It's really wild. And I think there was like definitely blood splatter on the sand. Yeah, that's weird. It's wild. It's really well. And I think there was like definitely blood spatter and stuff, but you could tell she didn't fight back. Right. So she was definitely caught off guard, caught off guard, which it's like, was she asleep?

That's what that's honestly what a lot of people think is that she was asleep. Well, I feel like that's kind of an area to where you would go to sleep, because like you don't have to worry about the water, like the tide changing, anything like that. And she's tall grass. Exactly. She was hidden enough that she could have been sunbaving in the nude. Exactly. And it's not like hiding in the nude. It just kind of fell asleep. Yeah. And it's like, but what? Who? What happened? Yeah. Were you with someone? Right. So like I said, she, there was

some clothing that were found. There was a pair of Wrangler jeans that were folded up like a pillow under her head, which to me says she went to sleep with those under her head. It's exactly like a pillow. And there was also a blue bandana under her head. And she was laying halfway on a like green blanket,

like a beach blanket. The Warren Tobias, who was the retired acting police chief in Provincetown, said she was definitely posed there. She was lying out on a beach towel as if she was sunbathing. So he doesn't think that she was asleep. She was either posed there or that's like where she what she was doing. What happened? Gotcha. So James Hankins, the ranger, called Provinced Down Police Chief at the time, James Jimmy Meads at home because they were friends. And actually, I guess Meads had given Hankins some extra responsibilities. Like he could kind of like do more than a normal ranger could

because he was like trustworthy. Okay. So he called him at home and he was like, you got to get down here. Now, province town police chief James Jimmy Meads felt like it was his duty to solve this case. Well, so he was so trustworthy. He, well, no, this was the police chief. Well, that's good. He's in there too.

He felt very connected to this case and he took every opportunity to push it forward and like really push down doors to get things done for this case. Like he had a forensic team come together at one point to create composites and claim models of her likeness. He literally said he wouldn't retire until he found out who she was. And for years he actually had her skull in his office as a reminder to himself that she was unnamed and can't be forgotten. Wow.

And dedication. Yeah. He also got her dental records and all information published anywhere he could and constantly brought up her case in any interview he did, anywhere he could. He was really trying to keep her case in the forefront and make sure she was not forgotten. It's so interesting that they did get her dental records, but like, or like, oh yeah, and we'll get into it. Don't worry. Okay.

She has very specific dental records too, which makes it even weirder. Weirder. I love this. So he said, quote, with most murders, you try to figure out who the murder or was. I've spent years trying to figure out who the victim was. As the years dwindle on, more dentists will retire or die. More dental records will be lost, and the opportunity for identification will diminish. Maybe someone on death row will decide to cleanse his soul before he dies and confess to the murder.

It appears that someday soon, all retire, in the case won't be solved. But I'm sure whoever follows me in this job, if they get a lead, they'll call me and I'll be ready. And each chief after him have all made it a priority to bring this case back up and try and solve it. Every single case. I'm glad. Every chief after him has been like priority number one is solving this case. So when Mead showed up after Hankins called him, he showed up with two other detectives that evening. And he saw the scene and he said immediately his head went to Tony Chop Chop Costa. Hey, we know all about Tony Chop.

We do. If you remember, we did an episode about Tony Chop Chop Costa, another killer in Provincetown. And if you, I don't know if anybody caught that Jimmy Mead's is kind of a familiar name. I thought it was, but then I didn't know if I like knew somebody like personally would that name. Yep. See Mead's was in our our cost app. I thought so. Yeah. He had actually known cost as since he was young when he moved to P town. And he Mead's had been the one to recruit costa as a drug informant before he turned into a serial killer. Because of his help in the drug informant cases,

Mead's wrote him a letter to get him early parole when he was in jail for non-payment of child support. And he basically wrote the letter to get him out so he could use him as a drug informant. So he got him out five months early in November 1968, and two months after he was let out, he murdered Pat Walsh and Mary Ann Wysocky. So Meads was part of the investigation. She actually spoke to Patricia Morton, who was the rooming house owner,

who told him that Mary Ann Wysocky and Pat Walsh had spent two nights at her rooming house and that a man that Mary and Ysaki and Pat Walsh had spent two nights at her rooming house and that a man named Tony Costa had also been staying there at the same time. She had told him that they had interacted and that she had not seen the girls in a few days. And as we know, Tony had killed them both. Right.

So that's a bummer. So that's why their head immediately went to Tony. Exactly. So, and it's very much like the dismemberment and stuff is very Tony Kosta, Tony Chop Chop Kosta, but not like him. Sorry, I'm probably jumping ahead of you. Oh no, well, well, the big main thing was immediately he thought of Tony Chop Chop, but then he realized it couldn't be him because he had killed himself,

May 12th and 1974. All right, well, that's so. So couldn't be him. And I was going to say he didn't leave people out in the open. He didn't make them in like the garden thing that he had. Yeah, he liked to do his little garden, his Tony garden. Yeah. Yeah.

What if you were trafficked into a cult over shot nine times, or fell in love with a vampire, or went into a minor surgery and woke up one week later, paralyzed. What would you do? I'm Whit Missildine, the creator of this is actually happening, a podcast from Wondry that brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events, told by the people who lived them. From a young man that dooms his entire future with one choice, to a woman who survived a notorious serial killer. You'll hear their first person account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Each episode is an exploration of the human spirit and personal discovery. These haunting accounts sound like Hollywood movies, but I assure you,

this is actually happening. Followed this is actually happening wherever you get your podcasts, you can listen to ad free on the Amazon Music or Wonder app. But they searched the surrounding areas around the scene for days, and they found literally nothing, not a shred of evidence. That's crazy. They even used bloodhounds, nothing hit, couldn't find anything. I mean, it must be hard on the beach, too, because, like, wind blows in the sand moves.

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. In a berry thing. Yeah, it's like, and then there's water involved. That's just all this. It's like the worst thing ever. So the autopsy was done Saturday, July's just all this. It's like the worst thing ever. So the autopsy was done Saturday, July 27th, 1974. What it came out was she was about 5'6, 135 pounds, and estimated to be

between 25 and 40 years old. Her build was described as an athletic build. She had long hair that was reddish or described as aub burn in a lot of places. It was in a ponytail. They couldn't actually determine what color her eyes are because of decomposition. Oh, wow. So what happens is when you die, you stop blinking. And so you don't produce any kind of moisture in your eyes. And there's no more blood circulation to help with all that. So there's no oxygen coming into your eyes once you're dead because the cornea needs to be moist for oxygen to absorb into it.

And lack of oxygen affects the opacity of your cornea and the lens. So it doesn't change the color of the eye technically, but if you're looking at it, it will appear bluish or white or like even gray because it'll be cloudy. Yeah, I don't have that cloudy haze over it. Yeah, that's so weird. I never knew that before. Yeah, it's like a weird thing. So sometimes it can be especially after if they've been out for a while, that's really gonna, they're gonna have cloud. Yeah, it's just the way. It's frustrating too when you're dealing with like an unidentified body. Yeah, exactly. So she also had pink toenail polish on.

Oh, girl. I know that always gets me. It does. Ever since the Willie picked an episode because you had said one of the girls was found with red toenail polish, I paint my toes red all the time and I always think of it now. Because you always think, because I think that to doing autopsy's, I say it a lot that like little things always make me think like, oh, you had no idea because it's like last Time you were gonna paint your nails. It's like such a personal thing

Yeah, like you just do like you don't paint your nails thinking of dying. It's like a self-care thing So it's like they just they either you or someone painted your toenails Just and you had no idea that that was the last time you would do that And that you know it always gets me. Now, now we're going to get into her teeth. Okay, because I'm interested. She had lots of teeth missing, but they are fairly sure that this was from the murder or circumstances, not circumstances before the murder.

They think that this was on purpose that her teeth are missing. She had a lot of gold crowns in her teeth. Huh. Estimated between $5,000 and $10,000 worth of dental work in her trust. They actually sent out her dental records to dentists all over Massachusetts and the country, also the FBI and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

Wow, and they didn't get anything? Nothing. What? That is nuts to me. Nothing. I'm like, what? And they think that the missing teeth were pulled out forcibly. Right. That they pulled them out intentional.

I remember hearing that. And how? Are there, I don't know if you know this, are there certain teeth that are better for identification? I don't think so. I think it's more dental work. Just in general. Unless all I can think about is if she had some kind of, like maybe she had one tooth that severely overlapped another one. Right. That would be like a very identifiable. If she had some really, really identifiable specific to her thing that they wanted to remove for that. Yeah. But like to just the teeth themselves,

there's, I think that it's just really the dental work that you're looking for. Well, and then does that say to you that this is probably somebody who's I killed before because they know that. And they're like that like callous to frickin' pull it to. Yes, because when we get into the hands, that and they're like that like callus to frickin' pull a tooth.

Yes, because when we get into the hands, those hands were definitely taken off to take away fingerprints. So this is somebody who knows how to take away identification and did a great job because we can't identify her. So clearly has probably done this before. I feel like that, I feel like that.

I think so. I don't think this is a one off. Experience level of moida. And we're gonna get at the end of this episode, we'll talk about the theories who has been brought up over the years and maybe talk about who we think could be it. She was also sexually assaulted with a wooden block, but they think it was done post-mortem, which is terrible regardless. But her hands were cut off, like I said, one at the forearm

and one at the wrist. So no fingerprints to identify her, obviously. Where her hands would have been, whoever placed her there had piled on pine needles, like intentionally. The left side of her head had been crushed in like an egg shell, they said. The medical examiner said it looked like the blow had happened from someone lying next to her or when she was asleep. There wasn't any signs of struggle.

She was on one side of the blanket. So it seemed likely that she may have known her killer or was at least slightly comfortable with them and was asleep and didn't see it coming. Yeah. So I see there, she was asleep, didn't see it coming and didn't know the person. or she was on that blanket with someone and they and she fell asleep or was just lying there and they took her out

She was almost decapitated. They thought this was due to a combination of multiple strangulation attempts and also That blow to the head it was done with a tool, which is called a military entrenchment tool. And that was actually the cause of death was the blow to the head. Yeah, I would think so. The military entrenchment tool is a collapsible spade kind of thing used by military and like survivalists. It's really sharp and usually made up like steel and shit. Oh, okay. So I think it was James Hankins, yeah, that said, quote, the only instrument that could have been used to hack off her hands was an instrument carried by almost all-dune buggies. Interest.

It was common in all surplus stores. It was a handy tool for a camper. It was a folding shovel called an entrenching tool. It was standard issue item for anyone in the infantry, soldiers in World War II and Korea carried them. It was very sturdy, made out of heavy metal, semi-pointed spade like. The blade could be folded down on the handle, or it could be raised to a perpendicular like a hoe, or you could make it into a shovel with a straight handle around 18 inches long.

In hand-to-hand combat, you could use it to fight your enemy. Wow, so this is a versatile tool. It is, and it sounds like every dune buggy had one. Yeah, which is interesting. And that it's a good tool for campers, people who camp out on the dunes, people. So this is opening up like many doors. A lot of doors.

There was also a ton of insect activity on the body that they noticed. We'll also mention that again after we talk about the theories. Yeah. Now the stomach contents indicated that she had recently eaten a meal of burger and fries. Got it girl. Which indicated to a lot of people

that she had been in town that day. Yeah, maybe that one of the burger and fried joints. Right. She had estimated to have been dead for at least 10 days, but possibly as long as three weeks. Whoa, dude. They believed she was, they were thinking that she was possibly killed somewhere else if it's not the theory of her being asleep. Okay. Just because of the lack of stuff at the crime scene. There was blood, but I think it wasn't as bloody as you would think it would be. And then when you get into the insect activity, does that kind of skew it even more?

It's honestly a dozen, but I think they just can't figure it out. They can't figure this out. It's like she could have been asleep on that towel on that towel. Or it could have been all set up to look like she was sleeping on that towel. Because it almost does seem like too perfect. Like posed.

Yeah, but it's like she's on, the other thing is she's on her, she's face down. Right. So it's like you would sunbathe that way. Yeah. You know, I mean, like you would do that. But then it's like, would somebody place you face down? Or the would they place you face up? Maybe they would place you face down to make it look like you would be in sunbathing. Exactly. Right. So they probably just don't want to rule out

anything because it would be anything. Yeah, they have no evidence to say exactly what is going on here. which is so frustrating. I can't imagine working on this case even just like listening to a disfresh dream. So frustrating. So no missing persons matched that description. None. They searched all local motels and hotels, asked if someone had seen someone matching that description or if someone had not returned to their room matching that description, nothing.

Like how is she not connected to anybody? That's the thing. And again, no fingerprints, so we can't even try that. I know. Now, a detective named Detective Flynn said, quote, it's certainly unusual that no one misses her. She must have had a husband, boyfriend, parents, someone. She had been pretty well taken care of. We know that. So she was like in a state where obviously she had almost $10,000 with dental work in her house.

She was not just floating around homeless. So your mind just goes to all these different things. Yeah. One of the first things I thought was was she a runaway? And had runaway a long time ago. And she had had her own life. And not dating anybody like. Maybe.

It's, it's, there's so many ways you could go with it. Yeah. And it's won especially in the 70s. It's like people were like going off on their own, doing things on their own all the time. Oh yeah. And Provin's Town was like a perfect place to go. Just, I mean, like a Tony Chop Chop.

That was like his whole life was just floating around. Provin's Town. So it's like maybe not, like, but she's his whole life was just floating around, prop and sound. So it's like maybe not like, but she's not a drifter because she's well taken care of. So it's exactly. It's weird. And she must have been staying somewhere like her hair's nice, it's in a ponytail. Yeah. It seemed that yeah, they don't describe it as like unkempt or anything.

Right. So it's very strange. There were two pairs of footprints seen in the sand around the scene. They appeared to be heading towards the body, but they never came right up to it. So that's interesting. There was also a set of tire tracks present about 50 yards from the crime scene, but again, it could have been weeks. So that could have just been like a dune buggy. Yeah. So over 30 different police officers searched the entire Cape and they had zero leads. Zero. I could not imagine. Now a few years later, they were getting a little desperate. So they sent

Jimmy Meads to New York City to see a psychic named Yolana Bard, who was known as the Queen of the Psychics. Okay. She had worked on a lot of cases, a lot of well-known people. And at this point, they're like, what can it hurt? Right. As well just give it a shot. Sometimes I can, though. It can. So apparently, he placed case things in front of her,

but they were all in sealed packages. Okay. So she wouldn't know what was inside of them. It was their test. They were like, you proved to me that you were the Queen. So they were like, he was literally like, tell me something about what I wanted to like tell me what's going on in one of these. So she stopped over one of them and said, I sense blood in this one. And it was an envelope containing a bloody piece of evidence from the crime scene. But also

like, there probably would be blood in most of them. So, but then she said she saw dripping and she said there was a beach. Now she didn't know what she, what victim she was talking about. She said there was a beach where the victim was found and she said their hands were buried. That's what. Yeah, that's huge. So she gave him directions to where the hands would be found buried. Wow. And he went back to P town to look.

He was like, all right, I'm going to go check this out. And he put everything she said together and decided that the place she was indicating he thought was a place called the Ace of Spades, which was bar and town. And it had been a while, it had been there for a while. And what happened was the water, I guess, dripped onto the beach from some of the sinks. It was like known that they, so the dripping water. Yeah. And it all kind of matched up with the description. So he went there and she had told him that they would be buried like in the basement.

And unfortunately found out that two months earlier, they had cemented the basement. Oh my God. And that's also a little, little strange, little strange. Why are you just cementing your basement out of nowhere? Exactly. I mean, maybe you have radon, but still.

Maybe Massachusetts is old. We've got lots of radon coming up in these random dirt basement. I just was really not that crazy to think. It's really not, but it's still like, but it's on curious timing. Well, and he was thinking he was going to be able to at least digs around and he couldn't even do that.

So James Hankins, the ranger, said that he had walked away from the crime scene that night and he noticed something when he walked away. Oh, correct. And he said he didn't say anything and it's always bothered him. He said he saw pictures and words drawn in the sand a little ways away, but he said he didn't, it didn't look like kids drawings to him because he was like, I first I was like, oh, kids drawn the sand all the time. It's the cape.

Like kids are here all day every day. But he was like, for some reason it just didn't ring as kids drawings to me. And he says it always bothered him because he didn't investigate it or take a photo because he was like whoever drew those things was definitely close to the body recently, right? Because they would have been erased by the wind or the waves if it was done earlier. Right. So he's like, it always bothered me that I didn't take the second to go see what they were as well.

I know. And the body was finally laid to rest at St. Peter's cemetery in October 1974. Her tombstone says unidentified female body found race point dunes. Oh, that's very sad. Yeah. And actually, Alyssa Matt Kaffin said she and her sister Leslie, who was the one who found the body, would often go to the cemetery and visit her grave. I love that one.

And they said they always felt like a weird connection. Yeah. And it always bothered them that like, they still don't know who she is. Well, and it's like, you have to like respect them like through the afterlife. Yeah, exactly. Like flowers or something.

Yeah, and it's like, she's unidentified. Right. Like somebody knows her and somebody must have missed her. You know, like, who are you? Right. Who are you that misses her and hasn't said anything? But in 1987, 10 years after this,

a Canadian woman came forward and said she thought this woman could have been a victim of her fathers. Apparently, when she was young, which hurts my heart, she witnessed her father strangle a woman while she was visiting him in P town in the 70s. Oh shit. Now this woman thought that this was the woman. She was like, I think I recognize her as the woman. Wow. So they get this and they tell needs about it and he was like, I'll go up to Canada

and I'll interview this woman. Oh yeah. Like I'm going. So then they try to contact her again to get more information. She had moved out of her home and they literally couldn't find her again. Bitch. She never contacted them again. I have goosebumps, sorry, look at my arm. Right. I mean, I feel like.

That's really shitty. Why would you call and get them excited to fix this? Exactly. Obviously, that must be a really dramatic thing for you to have to even call in the first place, but it's like someone lost someone. And like clearly you were trying to help so like what made you change your mind?

Follow through. You have to wonder like is her dad still, was her dad still alive? Well that's why. And like she got scared and like he found out or something. Yeah, like did someone find out in the family and was like you got to be quiet? Did he find out there's so much that could have happened there?

It's like we don't even know. I can't find any information about what this lady's name is or anything. Do you imagine if her dad found out and he also killed her? Imagine. That's not possible. I need to tell him he's a digging to find who she was. I'm going to keep digging to find who she was

because I swear to you, I want to find a finder. I'm going to find this woman. Come on. I'm just going to call Canada. Hi gonna find this woman. Come on. I'm just gonna call Canada. Hi, can I tell you? Hello. Elena. For the morbid.

For the Atlanta. And I'd like to talk to any contacts in Canada guys. We do. Elena's calling 1-800-EC. Excuse me, that's spooky. Johnny and Tyler. Accurate, very unhelpful. I meant like contacts to like the police people.

Yeah, Johnny and Tyler, they're very important people like they can they can help us out I mean they are VIP. They are. All right, so Johnny Tyler. Let's get on this together more squad up. All right, well We're making the squad Connata all right, so we got we got the Canada squad up so we're ready. I'm good But then there was also a Maryland woman who called and said she thought the woman was her sister who had bit she had just moved to Boston, I guess recently, before this, like when this was happened. This sister. This sister and suddenly had disappeared. Oh, and she was spending time in P town. Right. Now, no one knew where she went that year. She said she just disappeared, vanished.

And she said her sister matched the height, weight, and hair color. Did she say anything about dental work at all? Well, that's the important part because Mead's actually asked for her sister's dental records and they were able to ship them out to Mead's. Okay, and it's like, let's do this. They weren't a match.

Fuck you. No gold crowns, nothing like that. Wow. So, sounded like that. Wow. So sounded really good. And I honestly, I feel bad for the girl, the Maryland woman, because she probably I wonder what happened to her sister. When she probably had some ounce of hope,

like it all lines up. Yeah, just a kind of closure. You know, the crime scene now is, and at the time was, I guess in the 70s was the biggest tourist attraction. Was that place on the dunes? And even now it's a big pull for people to go lost. I get it. I get it.

I know. It's one of those things that you can have a million opinions about it. Yeah, it's one of those things that like, it's never going to stop that kind of like, you know, it's seeing a place like that. It's like going to the Lizzy Board now. Exactly. It's like, it's not going to the Lazy Board now. Exactly. It's like, it's not gonna. It's like going to the

more big curiosity in Salem. Exactly. It's more of a curiosity. Definitely go to Salem. It's amazing. Oh my God, I love Salem so much. Love Salem. It's also like, like I said in the other episode about it,

I think it's like a profound experience going to Salem. Absolutely. When you go to like the historical places. Well, and there's so many historical sites. We went to at least 42. Exactly. We were there the other day. Massachusetts has a lot of good history.

I think, guys, come to Massachusetts. If you're from here, you get it. Hello, I'm from the board of tourists. Tourism. I can't speak. I'm from the board of tourists. I'm on a board. On Massachusetts, come.

Visit Massachusetts. Come little children. Yeah, board. On Massachusetts, come. Visit Massachusetts. Come little children. Yeah, that was in Massachusetts too. See, we have done the shit. I'm done. I'm done. All right, so they did exume her body in 1980, 2001, and 2013.

See, that makes me, I know they have to, but it makes me so sad. I know, but I'm one of those, I think it's like the science. And me, I'm like, nope, bring them up. You got to look absolutely. But then you're just like, who are you? Well, that's so sad. I know, but I'm one of those, I think it's like the science in me. I'm like, nope, bring them up. You got to look absolutely. But then you're just like, who are you? Well, that's the thing. You can't rest. You can't rest.

You should be so disturbed. Yeah, you just wanted to rest in peace. But they, you know, advances keep happening in science and forensic science. Yeah. So every time something comes up, they're like, let's bring her up and see if she can use this. Exuming her is eventually to get to the goal of her resting piece. Of her resting piece, exactly.

And that's always the goal with the zooming of bodies to eventually get them to rest forever. But honestly, it has nothing's come up. Every time they've brought her up, it's nothing is moving forward. This is the strangest case. Now, a woman who people might know named Sandra Lee, she's a crime writer, she said when she was 9 years old, she actually discovered the Lady of the Dunes first with her sister,

but was too horrified to tell anyone at 9 years old. She was with her dog and stumbled upon her, and she said, quote, I stumbled down an incline with my dog. The dog was ahead of me, my dog got excited about something. I heard a very strange noise. If you can imagine someone holding a string of pearls, I heard that sound. And then there was a horrible smell. At first I attribute it to low tide.

She was face down, her hair was a mess, and I could see a gouge in the right side of her neck. Her arms were tucked down in the sand so I didn't know anything was missing. I recognized the green blanket right away. The lower half of her body was covered with something. She later found out that that sound, like somebody holding a pearl necklace, which you can know you can tell what that sound is. That was the sound of hundreds of thousands of maggots crawling all over her body. She! Yeah, she says, she is sure that she's like,

I am sure either one or a couple of other people must have stumbled upon this body in those three weeks and just were too scared to say anything. That's a little messed up. And she was like, because she was like, if it was kids, there was kids all over the speech. All over the speech, all over the speech, always playing in these students.

So skinny. Think about it. These two people are two children. Yeah. 12-year-old and a nine-year-old. Yeah. I'm sure another kid ran across this. I was like, I don't know what that is.

Or ran across it and thought it was just a naked sunbather. Um, especially from a distance. And now I have a question. How do you transport a bot? Like, how do you get the insects off of a body to transport it? Usually they transport with the insects. Do they? Yeah. So the people that transport it, they just like gown up or something? Yeah, they do. Oh yeah. Definitely. Gotcha. Especially in a case like that, where it's like so many. And then you must just like, I mean, you'll definitely get the

laughter words. You'll definitely try to like get get them out when there's like hundreds of thousands. Yeah, but they don't want to wipe away evidence. There's in the bag, basically. Have you ever opened a bag and had evidence being there? Luckily, which is a good thing. Sorry, just a little side note. I was really curious. I have no doubt for insects.

I know. They can exist. I just don't want to exist. Mugods are not for me. Mugods are not something I want to deal with. That is really a great way to describe the sound of thousands of magics. I don't want to make it. It's like a pearl necklace in your hand.

That's actually my birthstone, so please leave. It's a pleasley, thank you. All right, so here's some of the theories that have come across, or people of interest. Somebody thought she might have been a woman named Rory Jean Kessinger. Now, this was a 24-year-old woman at the time, and she matched the height and the weight of the lady in the dunes. She was also known to be a drug dealer and a bank robber. She was picked up at one point running around naked in the woods in Pembroke, saying she

had been sexually assaulted, and an off-duty police officer brought him to his home to call for backup. And when she got in there, she turned off the lights, stole his gun, and then said she had to kill him. What the fuck? And he wrestled it from her, but she went to jail for assault and intent to murder. Wow. She went to jail in Plymouth, and May 26th, 1974, she escaped from jail because someone smuggled her in a hacksaw and she sawed through the bars. Like, I hate to say this, but like, bad bitch vibes. She was never seen again.

Unless she's the lady on the day she was never seen again. No one knows where she went. Such a different worry. Honestly though, not a different worry. Honestly though. Not a different worry. Worry Gilmore. She did go to jail. She did steal a boat.

And she commits, she is part of many adulterous affairs. So she's not on the... She's robbed any banks. I don't know. We don't know. We didn't see her robber bag, but we didn't see her not robba bag. I can't see she didn't robba bag. I didn't see you not robba bag.

So maybe it just didn't make the final cut. I don't know. But either way, it wasn't Rory Gilborn. Okay. And it wasn't this Rory because in 2002 DNA from her mother, they used like familial DNA, compared to the unknown body proved it wasn't there. You know, I didn't think it was her I didn't either but a lot of people thought it was because the other thing was you see a picture of Rory

And you see a picture of this on the composite sure they do have a striking resemblance to each. So it is interesting. Now one of my favorites and one that I think has a little bit of legs here. Is that James Whitey-Bullger did this? And do you think this has a lot of legs? I think it has legs. Okay. I'm not sold. Okay. But I think I, I, I'm like, it's one of those

that I can see that it definitely could be him. And I can also be like, eh. So it's just like, it's one that I just will keep over in a corner. Well, and if you know anything about Whitey, like in the whole beginning of this thing, I said like this is clearly somebody who's killed before. Exactly.

I think I opinion at least. Well, and you know, we, especially if you're in Massachusetts, like you, everyone knows Whitey Bulger, if you're in Massachusetts, you definitely know Whitey Bulger. You're probably his cousin. Your grandparents are probably telling you that they should have just let him keep being on the limb

because he's our most old person. Yeah. Yeah, sure, Papa, that makes sense. Yeah, sure. So witnesses said that they saw, because people would see Whitey Bulouldier all over the place. He was existing among everybody. Everybody was just vibing.

Everyone was just letting him do his thing. Whitey was alive in a house. He was scary. So witnesses said that they did see him with a woman who matched the Lady of the Doomsdir Scripion in P-Town at this time. Interesting. He was known at this time to be in P-town. What the fuck was Whitey Boulder?

You wanna know what he was doing? He was frequenting a bar in the area called the Cronin Anchor. I mean, it makes sense, but like... Yeah. P-town is just such a chill vibe, and Whitey is such a chaotic vibe. He is, I think he's chaotic in Boston,

and I think he chills in P-town. He's vacationing. But if he did this, then he's chaotic in Boston and I think he chills and he's vacation. But if he did this, then he was chaotic everywhere. So it will race my view of him being chillin' peat on. But yeah, so this bar, the crown and anchor that he loved frequent down here was very close to where they found her body. Oh, that's weird. His thing was to remove his victim's teeth. Right.

He did have a thing for that. Sandra Lee, the crime writer, thinks she may have, that this woman may have been an Irish immigrant and that she was groomed by Bolger to be forced into sex work. Oh, no. Because he was also a human trafficker. Like, he was in all that shit. He was a real bad guy.

He's a real bad guy. I feel like some people kind of like, he gets glossed over. Yeah. real bad guy. It's a real bad guy. I feel like some people kind of like, he gets glossed over. Yeah. I feel like a lot of these like, mall bosses and like crime families, they become a thing because,

you know, you watch the sopranos, you see the Godfather, and you see how terrible it all is, but somehow it just, everyone just kind of is like, but that's a cool crime family. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think it's like a weird human thing

that a lot of people do. And I think he's one of those characters that's so infamous that people just are like, why'd he bulge? You know what it is? It's like Hollywood made it. It is, it's very, he's become a Hollywood figure. So I think it glosses over the true atrocities that he did.

So he murdered his own girlfriend. He did, and he murdered his own right hand bands girlfriend who like made him help him do it. Maybe that you breath him in front of me. Is that what I'm thinking of? Yeah, I mean, he definitely like murdered women and he did it in pretty, and he would like, strangled them too, which is again,

interesting. And she may have been strangled. So she thinks this could be that, and maybe that's why we're not identifying her, because she's not from here, right? The New York Times reported, quote, tales of his exploits were learned from childhood there. How he shot men between the eyes, stabbed rivals in the heart with ice picks, strangled

women who might betray him, and buried victims in secret graveyards after yanking their teeth to thwart identification. That is 100% true. If you grew up here, you grew up hearing tales of whitey bulger. Literally, like there was like a whitey bulger, like a book about like him on my summer reading. Oh yeah, black mass probably.

I think maybe. Was it black mass? I don't think it was. It was, I don't know. I'll think of it later. But yeah, so Sandra Lee actually thinks he's the guy. She thinks that she did. Correct. I mean, I think you're right. It does have legs. It's never been proven that she isn't one of his victims. They haven't been able to prove she isn't.

They also haven't been able to prove she is. People hoped you would confess to it, but when he was arrested, but like he was beaten literally to an unrecognizable pile of meat by inmates in West Virginia, October 30th, 2018, when he was 89 years old. He literally entered prison and they literally just beat him to shit. Yeah. So he didn't exactly get a chance to admit it, which is kind of a bummer. Kind of a bummer, and actually kind of interesting that like inmates beat him to death because yeah, there is like like you know that like how

There's a hierarchy in prison. You would think of how boss would be on top. You would think I don't know if you do is so horrific like I don't know. It's a weird. It's a weird. It's a weird. It's a weird flex there I don't know this but I mean he's a really bad guy so like yeah He was I mean he was 89 at the time. He had also been on the lamb for so long. Maybe it was like, they're pissed that he got away with it for so long. I don't know. Who knows? Either way, he really got it. So, but I really would have preferred him to be able to maybe get convinced to like admit a few things. I just feel like there would have had many things to do. There's some families that would, I think, would have liked to hear admit a few things. I just feel like there would have had many things to do. There's some families that I think would have liked

to hear some closure and stuff, so it's like that's a bummer. Yeah, exactly. That's why like prison justice sometimes you're like, eh, okay, but like I would have liked to get some information. Yeah, so like, you know, it works when you're like throwing hot water over Daniel Morcom's killer. Exactly.

Or like tattooing to in Katie's revenge on that guy's forehead when he killed the most old girl. That's the most old girl thing I've ever heard. I'm like, all right, do that. It can still talk. Feel free. But like, yeah, this is just tough. But yeah, so that's possibly who it could be.

Okay. There's another one in 2000, a serial killer named Hayden Clark confessed to the murder of the ladies of the dunes. Okay. He confessed from prison while he was serving two thirty-year sentences for the murders of a six-year-old girl named Michelle Doerr and a 23-year-old woman named Laura Hotelling. Oh, my goodness. He claimed he killed up to 12 women and he said he buried some of the evidence on his grandfather's property, like in his garden, on the Cape.

That's a dick move. And Clark explained that he had buried evidence from the Lady of the Dunes crime in his grandfather's garden on the Cape. So did we go there? And he said he knew the woman's identity, but he was not going to tell authorities because he said they were mean to him.

So he's not going to tell them. It's really not their job to like make you feel super welcome. And so you know. Yeah, so he led police on December 15th, 2002, his grandfather's former property. And they did dig in the garden and did find a big plastic bucket filled with more than 200 pieces of jewelry. Interesting.

Among these things were Laura Hôtelling's high school class ring. So he was telling the truth that he buried some of his murder victims' things in there. He said they were literally trophies to him. Like you did that for a reason. Of course. But they couldn't connect anything to the lady of the dunes because they don't know who the fuck she is.

Right. So any of that jewelry could be her jewelry. Right. And we don't know. Police don't believe him though because one, there's no physical evidence that they connect to him. And then also, he was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. And so it's hard for him to tell reality from fantasy.

And he has moments where he is telling a story and spending a yarn and it becomes a fantasy. Sure. So they think maybe this was just him, just it happens all the time that these people in prison who are there for atrocities will confess to other crimes like Henry Lee Lucas, Otis tool, they they did the same thing. It's just a fuck with the industry. It's just a fuck with people and it's like mental illness and it's like so they were like this just isn't really credible so they were like yeah we're not gonna be able to really do much with that.

So fuck you cases so frustrating. And then there's my favorite theory. Oh look at it. In 2015, Stephen King's son, Joe Hill had a theory. He wrote in a blog post that he believed that the lady of the dunes can be seen alive as an extra in jaws. Oh my God, how did I forget about this? I literally knew that this was a thing. But the entire time we were doing this, my brain just forgot about pieces of life. And he said in his blog post,

what if the young murder victim, no one has ever been able to identify has been seen by hundreds of millions of people in a beloved summer classic and they didn't even know they were looking at her. And he said, what if the ghost of the Lady of the Dunes haunts jaws? That freaks me that far out. There is a woman who looks just like the sketches and composites and is wearing wrangler jeans and a blue bandana.

I mean, hello. But there's a lot of women at that time that dressed exactly like that. Yeah. So he said, quote, this particular woman bears a shocking resemblance and appearance and war drove to the murder victim. Suddenly, I tingled all over and came halfway out of my seat. And for the bearish of a moment, I thought I had seen her. Now, Jaws had been filmed two hours away from the crime scene. So not that far away.

They had never recorded the names of their extras. Oh, shit. And a lot of locals were extras. Like, they would just show up and agree to appear in the final cut. Yeah. So police are skeptical, but they said, they are not gonna say it's not possible that that is her.

I mean, of course, a lot of women dress like that at the time, but the fact that this woman looks like her, looks like her and the blue bandana is that's a big one. And do they ever find like a bathing suit top or anything? No, they didn't find anything like that. I know, that's what's weird. know that's what's weird. And so Joe Hill said, quote, part of me thinks that my subconscious mind is so programmed, so trained to quickly generate ghost stories, that that's all I've done here. Because he is Stephen Kingson. I was going to say that's true. But, Jaws Green writer Carl Gottlieb checked his production notes and he said this scene, number 130, with the extra that they're talking talking about was filmed May 25th, 1974, two months before and only a hundred miles away from where she was found. Interesting.

She would have been alive. Right. Two months is like a long time before, like, but I mean she could have been alive. But she was there. Yeah. She could have just been there. Right. I know I'm thinking of her as like a vacationer.

Yeah. And she might have just been living there. Well, and then in 2019, investigators said that they were going to reexamine the case, trying to use new techniques. They were gonna use DNA analysis and genealogical family building sites to try to do it. This is the same kind of thing they used

with the Golden State Killer case. It's becoming a real like valuable thing for these kind of cases. And Cape and the island DA, Michael O'Keefe said quote, we're going to examine everything we can with respect to the remains. Now, I'm just going to leave you with one exciting possible thing.

American Horror Story, season 10, is being filmed in Massachusetts, and it has tinted at a lady of the Dune storyline. They're possibly as a subplot. Oh my God. So I did, I like combed Reddit for some theories about this too, because they are really good at finding these things. They are filming in P-town.

They are filming in P-town. You think Billy Lord isn't in P-town? Yeah, I think she was. And Murphy, Ryan Murphy said, quote, he like puts something on his social media that said, quote, something's washing up on the shore. Girl. Something like that.

And then tease the photo with two hands on the beach. And as we said, a big part of this was her missing two hands. Right. And Murphy has teased out more teasers that have teeth in them. Interest, I mean, if it's not the main thing, because either way, this is set in Massachusetts, sorry, in P-town, I'm excited to see what it is.

Like, I wonder if there's a Tony Chop Chop part or anything. Maybe. But either way, it could definitely be a subplot. I've always put those little nods. Well, then you have to wonder, is it gonna be in the 70s because, oh my God, I love to watch shit that is set in that time period. I bet it is.

I wonder. I need to know. So I'm excited to see. I love American Horror Story. So good. I would love to see it. And that is the very frustrating tale of the lady and the of the dunes that we don't know who she is.

Someday, I think we're gonna update you guys. I'm gonna manifest it. I think we're gonna Some day, I think we're gonna update you guys. I'm gonna manifest it. I think we're gonna do it. I think we're gonna solve it. I think we, so far we have a good squad. We got Johnny and Tyler up in Canada that we put on the task. We got Billy, we got Paul.

I mean, we're assuming we have you. I think we have you guys. Sarah Turnie, girl, come on squad. Get shot time. I know you can get shot time. Bailey Sarian. Yep, girl. Come on, Swat. Get shot, time. I know you can get shot, time. Bailey Sarian. Bailey Sarian, get over here. Make me look good while we investigate this, please.

Yes. And yeah, I think we're gonna do this. Let's get it, friends. We'll add some more. Don't worry. For sure. Who else should be on the squad? Everyone is gonna volunteer.

Oh, you know what, Jordan, from the nighttime podcast, he's up in Canada too. We got him. Maybe he could find the woman. Canada, Squat. All right, let's go. I'm ready for this, guys. If you're in Canada too. We got him. Maybe he could find the woman. Canada Squad. All right, I'm ready for this guys. If you're in your end while...

We'll tag you soon. And we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it. We're about to wear the Units' We're The Units' I'd have to be part of our squad to finally solve this case. Thank you, good night. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen ad-free with

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