Morbid - Episode 29: The Lawson Family Murders

Episode Date: December 5, 2018

It is Christmas day in 1929 and Charles Lawson is feeling some type of way. Unintentional poetry aside, the mystery of one man's actions that left his entire family brutally butchered, save for his eldest son who he intentionally sent away from the scene before the carnage, has fascinated and horrified true crime fans for decades. Why did Charles Lawson annihilate his family on Christmas morning? Why did he sent Arthur away before the rampage? Why did Marie put raisins on the damn cake? The questions and the brutality are overflowing in this case, so join us while we speculate wildly.   Sources:  The Meaning of Our Tears: The True Story of the Lawson Family Murders of Christmas Day 1929 by Trudy J. Smith https://www.news.com.au/news/secret-behind-photo-in-lawson-family-christmas-day-massacre-when-seven-people-died/news-story/080cd6dcee54a210d70098ca45dc3851 See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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this is more bad. It is! I am. We're here. It's the holidayays. People are at the mall. Oh, maa? So, how's that the mall yesterday? And I wanted to murder everybody. I haven't been to the mall in so long, and I like that. I don't know about me. I decided that I'm going to finish my Christmas shopping.

Oh, mine! That's where I do all my Christmas shopping. Yeah, I'm all about online. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I got it. I like that. I'm about to be. I decided that I'm gonna finish my Christmas shopping online.

That's where I do all my Christmas shopping. Yeah, I'm all about online. I got a... I got a... I got a huge dent done in my Christmas shopping. Yeah, you really did. Because I'm an adult this year and I'm not gonna do what I did last year and do all my shopping the day before Christmas Eve.

Yeah, that's no good. It was a fucking nightmare. No, it's awful. And I feel like I always want to do it earlier and earlier, but it never happens. I wish that I was one of those people that so many clients were like, oh, I just like pick things up during the year.

During the year. Yeah, fuck you, Cheryl. Yeah, literally. Like, come on, man. Like, no, but I bet they'd actually. Because if I do pick things up, I end up giving them to the people early because I get excited and I can't hold on to it like I'm an awful gift-giver

that way. I know I know a lot of people like yeah. So I don't think there hasn't been too many true grimy things happening this week and I think that has really popped out at me. No I don't. I think it's a blessed time. It is a blessed time. Bless up. I think I saw something on, John and I were watching TV last night and we saw a Netflix movie that's coming out because you know how it's weird that Netflix is having movies now with like Sandra Bullock in them. Like going straight into Netflix.

It's just weird. So this one has Sandra Bullock in it. I think it's called Bird Box. I'm pretty sure it sounds weird. That sounds cool. But the whole thing is like very apocalyptic. Oh. And but not in that way. It's in a different way. All right. It's like these Sandra Bullock and her two kids have to get to the sanctuary because these like evil demons that take the form of your greatest fear are following them. Oh. And they only take the form of your greatest fear if you look at them,

so they have to stay blindfolded and get to the sanctuary without looking. That kind of sounds like a quiet place. Kind of. I like the whole like it takes the form of your greatest fear. I think that's definitely what I don't like. Well, I don't want that. But this led us in John and I into a discussion about what would what form would it take for you? And of course both of us said it would, which John was adorable. He said it would take the form of me leaving. And then he said there's something happening to the girls. I cry. And I was like, actually, that's exactly the same thing.

And then we were like, okay, let's get rid of that one and do like a different one. Yeah. And that's an obvious thing. And I was like, what would mine be? I was like, I don't know. And he said the greatest answer. and it was so on point. He said it would take the form of an empty pint of Ben and Jerry's ice cream that would just follow me

and everyone's in a while it would come to me and be like, I'm full, oh, nope, I'm not. That's amazing. And when he said it, I was like, oh my God, you are correct. And he said either that or an empty sleeve of cookies or like one that has like a half of happy cookie on there. That's hilarious. I don't know what mine would be. Well, I know John's would be someone standing there with either takeout menus and asking him to pick a place to eat. Oh god. Or they're just just me standing there saying what do you want for dinner?

Yep. That's his greatest fear. That's how I think to decide to watch food see. I think that's everybody's biggest fear. Oh, but I think yours would probably be a declined credit card. Or it would be like somebody with like shavers like ready to shave your head. Oh, fuck. I think that would be. Yeah.

H&M closing. That would be it. But if they brought up like an interesting conversation. Yeah. Oh, I think one of mine would just be like a bunch of clients telling me that I gave them shitty hair. Yes. That would be a good one. That would definitely be wrong. I have a lot. I don't want to be featured in this movie. Well, do you post a new guys' can comment what yours would be? Yeah! Because it really was such a fun conversation to have with us and we just got ridiculous about it but it like makes you think. It does. I want to hear what other people would say. Yeah I'm dying to know. So we'll definitely post that on the Instagram because that's an interesting one.

I'll do it at the very end of this episode. Wooo! So while you're listening to this you'll have already known that I did it. Because because you already answered I did it I know I should be pointing everywhere. I did it. I did it. Yeah, I think that's really it though So this week we have some new patriots. We do Without further ado, thank you so much to James Turner who was in the Weirdos category Welcome James. Do you know who that is James Turner? Yeah, I Weirdos category. Welcome James. Do you know who that is? James Turner?

Yeah, I do not. I thought it was what your friends, because... No, I hope not at least, because I don't know who they are. Well, you're our friend now, James. Yeah, now you're our friend. Thank you so much. Our next one is in the Jagged Little Bitch category. So thank you so much to Jordan Proudal.

I believe that's how you say it to Jordan Proudal I believe is how you say it. Jordan you are so jagged and you're such a little bitch. We love you Jordan. A jagged little bitch. And then also this week we have two custom patriots. So they're in a category all on their own. Nancy we have Courtney C. Courtney C. Thanks. Thanks have Courtney C. Courtney C. Thanks. Thanks, girl. You're the best.

You are the best. You are the chesticles. Woo! Courtney C. Chesticles. That's what the C stands for. Boom. Good Courtney Chesticles. And then we have Ashley Justin.

And she has my favorite way of spelling Ashley. Ashley. I guess L.E. You have a great name. Yeah, you do. I always wanted my name to be spelled like that, did you? Or when I was little, I wanted it to be spelled A.S.H.L.I.E. Which is trendy.

Trendy. I feel I ask mine. So thanks everybody. Thanks guys, you guys rock some serious socks. You rock some holiday socks. I hope you're all rockin' home. Yeah, it's rock holiday socks, guys. But you guys are amazing.

And I think I've been posting little sneaky peaky of all our designs, that Vasco Vaz is comin' out with. And I'm debating whether I'm gonna put out my own to let you guys see it ahead of time. You should not just surprise you guys with it. Oh, I like that idea too. I don't know. Big things are happening.

2019 is gonna be morbid takeover. We're gonna take over the world, essentially. Here we go, bye. We're gonna be, like, a new website's coming up. We're running for president. Yeah, just kidding. Get on this. Both of us.

Both of us. I think that would be great. That'll be flipping a lot to the table. Awesome. We bring a very well-rounded platform to the table. Yeah, but yeah, we're not doing that. But it's a nice thought. So yeah, so thank you to the Patreons for aiding us and getting all this stuff going because without you guys and you support we be nothing. We'd be shit on this world. We'd just be talking at a microphone in an empty laundry room for no fucking reason. And of course we thank everybody for listening and supporting in any way, but financially it's just kind of helping us get this stuff off the ground. Hey, I appreciate it. But yeah, I think we can just get on to our case this week. Let's dive into it.

I don't know if this one's gonna be, I think a little shorter than normal. I'm assuming it will be, well, whenever I assume that it ends up being longer. And whenever we think it's gonna be a long one, it ends up being shorter. So, I mean, I'm gonna say sure, but who knows, stick with us. We are kicking off our Holiday season it's a holiday takeover time a holiday takeover with some Christmas murders So today's murder Dijor murder is the murder of

The entire loss in family well shit well shit So this is an oldie but I know so goodie. Not the entire family. No. And that's an interesting part of this. So we're going to kick it right off. The Lawson's were a family of tobacco farmers. This was way back in the 1920s. So oh when you were born, you know when I was when I was born exactly yeah so not too long ago. I really not that long ago. So the the blossoms were a big family they were working class people. They weren't super awful poor like to the point where they were like having to you know like eat dirt and stuff but they were not at all wealthy. They were medium poor. They were definitely like lower class, but they were not like you know really really really

struggling. Right. Just to put that out there. So this happened in Germanton, North Carolina. The father's name is Charles Lawson. Charles Lawson. Charles Lawson is going to be an important figure in this whole thing. Pretty fucking important. Important. Important. In fact, one night say. He was born in 1886, which is after my house was built. Isn't that weird? What was your house bill? 1860. Wow. I know. Spook, spook, spook, spook is right. He was born in the town of Los Enville.

Nope. Just kidding. I was like, that's weird. I told them. I just paused to double check and he really was born in Los Enville. So it didn't autocorrect. Strange coincidence. Strange coincidence. I thought my, my document had autocorrected in some weird way.

But it didn't. He was born May 10th, 1886 in the town of Los Enville, which was in Stokes County, North Carolina. He had grown up in a sharecropping family. Same. You know. He grew up to marry Fanny Manring. I believe her last name is pronounced. In 1911, between like his younger life, there's not a lot known about that. I mean, it's hard because I was going to say, because like in 1880, there's not a lot known about that. I mean, it's hard because I was gonna say, because like in 1880, there wasn't a whole lot of records that we can look back at.

So I know that, you know, he grew up in like a farming family. This was kind of in his blood. He ended up marrying Fanny in 1911. The two of them, like scraped together money to finally buy a ram shackle 200-year-old farmhouse close to his brother's farms. Um, and this would, they had only bought this two years before this massacre happened. Oh, wow. And, yeah, so, and they bought them to be close to his family, you know, his brothers were around there, so. Fanny and Charles had eight children. Fuck that. It's a lot of children. No thanks. One might say too many. If you have eight children, go on. And Charles might say too many. No pun intended. It's a pretty bad joke, but it's the truth.

Now, these eight children included one named William, who was six years old, who died of pneumonia in 1920. Unfortunately, this was a pretty common occurrence for kids to die before, I mean, even getting into teenage. That's, um, yeah, it was kind of common. Yeah, it was very, very common to not, especially in like poor, more poor families. I mean, it makes sense. Yeah.

The other kids were Marie, who was 17, Arthur, 16 Carrie 12, Maybell 7, James 4, Raymond 2, and 4 month old Mary Lou. At the time of the murders, Fannie and Charles had been married for 18 years. That's a long, last time. That's a long, last time. Like, John and I have been together for like 12 years. That's a long, last time. So 18, I have been together for like 12 years. That's a long last time. So 18, that's a lot. You know each other. You're in it to win it. You're at 18. Yeah. By all accounts, this family was

just like a pleasant working class family. And in fact, Charles was said to be really well respected by the community. So this is a little different. Or this kind of reminds me of the Sauter family, how like the father was well respected, they were just like a chill family. Yeah, and they were different from Hinter kyfek. I was gonna say it reminds me of it, but it is a different way, different circumstance.

Exactly, because you know, the Hinter kyfek dad was not, well, it was Andreas was not exactly well respected, but they do, they do have similar attributes. Exactly. I was gonna say, we're gonna connect these dots later. Don't worry about that. Hinter kyfeck dad and Lawson dad have a similar type.

Yes, exactly. If you will. They have one really weird persuasion in common. Mm-hmm, we'll say. Stay tuned. So Charles wasn't like, you know, like overly like extremely religious or any, there wasn't anything that popped out about him as being extreme.

Okay. Cause you know, it's like you can point to him, like he was like kind of crazy, like they were a little extreme. No, they just were like super normal for by all accounts. Unless you count having eight kids as extreme. It was just honor really extreme. People back then had a lot of kids.

They did. I was going to say how many you were going to end up with. Right, end of it. You just kept going. Really good way to wear these limbs. Yeah. So they were fucked. So they were just a typical working class family of the era. They were very typical of that era.

Things changed though slightly after a weird little accident on the era. They were very typical of that art. Things changed though slightly after a weird little accident on the farm. According to Embruse Jones and Trudy J. Smith who wrote a book about this case called White Christmas, Bloody Christmas, which is really good. And it's really hard to find. It's like a very like song after book. I don't have it. But I got, I downloaded like parts of it, so, but I wanna, I wanna find this copy because it's supposed to be a really good book. They believe that Lawson's problems actually started when he struck himself accidentally in the forehead with his mattock on the forehead.

Which is an axe, exactly like the one that was used in the hijackyfeck murder, so it's kinda funny. He was doing work outside and I think he literally just like slipped and it slammed into his forehead. They said it was a pretty decent head wound. In the book they say, quote, his wounds healed, but many people said that loss and changed after the accident. His usual quick temper flaring more often and with greater intensity.

So obviously, he already had a temper before this. Yeah, it made it worse. And this clearly made it much worse. We'll get more into this later that this could have had a little bit to do with it, but I really don't think so in the end. I don't think so either. But it's just an interesting little side note, because as we know, head wounds tend to be an indicator of not awesome behavior. Usually that's in childhood though.

I feel like it more matters. Well I was just thinking that too. Yeah more marriage in childhood because it's formally still to be on your his age. Exactly. Now interestingly enough the authors of this book that I was just talking about are a father daughter team which is kind of cute. The father Embrus Jones was eight years old and lived near this family at the time of the murders. Oh yeah. So he remembers a lot about it. Like he said he vividly remembers them in the way the crime scene which we will get into later became a tourist attraction. I know that's fucked. Yeah. The daughter in this the the off of us the daughter said quote

my father spoke about this murder case all my life. He recounted the story of the famous cake being baked in the cabin which was left just as it was on the day of the murders. The cabin became a tourist attraction in the 1930s. The bloody pillows lying on the floor with Charlie had placed his battered victims were still left. When I was six he took us up to the location in hopes of seeing inside. When he retired in the mid-80s, he and his friends recalled the murders. Some of his friends had connections to people who knew the murder and his victims. So they have a lot, like the two of them writing this book about the case is what you want. They're close to it. I mean, this guy grew up

right around it. And in one of the things I read, he said that his mother, he was always mad because his mother wouldn't let him go to the tourist attraction. She was eight years old, but his older sisters got to go and they all came back and like told them about it. Oh, okay. Yeah. So, in 1929, two weeks before Christmas, Charles took his entire family to Winston Salem about 13 miles away from where they lived.

There, he bought them a bunch of fancy new clothes, he told them literally no matter what they wanted, they could have. Was this Christmas day? No, this was two weeks before Christmas. Two weeks. Then he had his family sit for a family portrait. He said it was part of a quote, Christmas surprise.

So it would appear this fucker knew what he was going to do for weeks. Yeah, he is. It was a huge deal for this working class family to one be buying a ton of new fancy clothes because I posted the photo on the Instagram that they took two weeks before they were murdered. And everybody's been really fancy get up, you know what I mean? They look rich. And that's a big deal for these people. And also, most people of their societal rank had never even had a photo taken of

themselves. So this was a huge luxury. Wow. Like you didn't just go to a photographer studio and have a portrait done. We weren't just popping out selfies. Yeah, you weren't just popping out selfies. So this was already like you know I I brow raising that he did this because it was seemingly out of nowhere. Right. Now the photo is interesting itself when you look at it now, especially his face. Yeah, there's a lot of ways that make it very interesting. No one is smiling. Everyone looks super pissed and extremely uncomfortable.

And they look uncomfortable to be there, but they also look uncomfortable with each other. A lot of them. Arthur and Marie are standing very far apart, Charles and Fanny. Fanny's holding the youngest, Mary Lou. Fanny looks like the most pissed. She looks horrified. And her and Charles don't look like they even know each other. And then, there's people looking different direction. It's just very odd. Marie, in particular, the 16-year-old daughter, looks the most cold and angry out of all of them. She's literally staring daggers into the, straight into the camera lens.

And those finger waves are on point. Well, I was just going to get into that. Well, in the other, some of the other ones look a little softer and off to the side a bit. Like, even Charles and Fanny look like a little little softer and off to the side a bit. Like even Charles and Fanny look like a little, just more like off to the side. Marie also looks like a flapper. She does look like a flapper. Like she does not look like a farm girl.

No, like it just doesn't, she looks beautiful. Fanny looks like a farm girl. She does, Fanny looks like a farm girl. And I'm gonna say that's a bad thing. I'm saying that less glamorous, you know? Well, and wouldn't you think that she would, they would be positioned differently?

Like I would think that Charles and Fanny would be in the middle. Yeah, in the middle. And Arthur, excuse me, and Marie would be on the side. Would be on either end, but instead it's Marie and Charles in the middle. And it almost looks like they're the parents. Exist Fanny looks all the way to the side.

Very odd. Very odd. And again, Marie looks beautiful. And she kind of physically embodies the roaring 20s look in this photo. She totally looks. She's got the flapper hair, like the finger waves, the bob, that was super cool then.

She's got like a flapper kind of dress on, like a cool girl dress from back then. It's got like the lace collar. She's got a necklace on. She just looks like a badass. I mean, Arthur looks pretty dope too. He looks super dapper. And also I think what points more to Marie is, if you look at it, doesn't she look like she has more light on her? Yeah, she definitely does. Like she just sticks out

in that photo in like a lot of ways. And I think it's also just the fact that she's staring directly into that camera lens with this like stone cold face. And then it's like we're looking at the photo right now. And Fanny just looks miserable. Yeah, she's just like fuck this widely here. Charles almost has this weird little smirk on his face. He's definitely smirked. Yeah, but if you look at it, so is Arthur. He has a small smirk too. He's a handsome dude. Yeah. Yeah. So That is so that was a weird occurrence. That was the big major thing that happened before this tragedy occurred now in December 25th You may know that day as Christmas. You may not who knows

Either way some of us know it as Christmas 1929 17 year old Marie she woke up early to make a Christmas cake. She made two layers of cake. She was icing them, getting them ready for the festivities because I think they were going to having Christmas festivities on the farm and then they were going to be going to their uncles and aunts houses, because again, they lived near family. Side note, she put fucking raisins on the cake. She did, but that was like a thing, that's like a thing, then.

No, I know that, but it is gross. Fuck that. That's not a cake. The oldest son Arthur, who is the 16 year old, he wanted to go out hunting for rabbits that morning. Cause again, they're farm folk. You know, like what they're doing. We're gonna wake up, we're gonna shoot some rabbit.

So he gets his shit ready, he's like, let's do this and he's like, oh my god, I don't have any shotgun shells, I forgot. So he goes to his dad, Charles, and he's like, hey, do you have any shotgun shells? And his father was like, no, I don't. Spoiler alert, we know he had some. He just wasn't willing to give him away. He had a name on each of them. Yeah. And so he said, so Charles told his son Arthur, you know what, go into town and go get some ammunition. So he sent Arthur away. Just, just know that. Sent him away. Only Arthur. The oldest boy. Exactly. So what we're going to discuss next is awful. And unfortunately Arthur was still at the store buying bullets when news already reached him. That's something terrible. It happened on the farm. Oh, that's fucked. Yeah.

Somebody had to whisk him away and like drive him back to the farm. Oh shit. And so, you know, Arthur leaves. He has no idea what happens after that. Well, the first person to discover the scene of what does happen after that was Charles's brother Alijah and his sons. They had stopped by the loss in farm on their way home

from a morning hunt. They were just going gonna wish the family a Merry Christmas on their way home. See you later. What they found was that the middle girls Carrie 12 and Maybell 7 had been found in the tobacco barn, shot and bludgeoned to death. Fanny was on the porch with a shotgun blast to her chest. Inside Marie's dead body was spread near the fireplace. James and Raymond four years old and two years old had been beaten to death. Jesus. Even the youngest member four month old Mary Lou was dead inside her crib, and he bludgeoned her, right? Yes. And Charles was nowhere to be found. Now immediately they went bonkers, police and neighbors started swarming on the scene looking for Charles.

Finally, his whereabouts became pretty clear when everyone heard a single shotgun blast from deep inside the woods, behind the farmhouse. Now Charles had run into the woods several hours earlier after he murdered his entire family and he had spent several hours pacing along in the woods alone in the woods before killing himself. That's wild. Yeah, it's insane. Now it was the family's two beagles who led investigators to the body. He had killed himself in the woods. Arthur and a police officer followed the dogs to the body. He had killed himself in the woods. Arthur and a police officer followed the dogs to the body. So Arthur was one of the people to discover his dad's body. On Charles's person, there were two notes. I found in a couple places that they were

addressed to his parents, but I'm not that's like some places say that, some places don't, it's just worth mentioning, but they both appeared to be only half notes that were left unfinished and it is confirmed that there were two notes I just don't know if it was to his parents or who was two notes one said quote troubles can cause that's it and the other one said quote no one to blame but and that it. It's kind of like morbid madlibs. It is. Like, feeling the blame. Like try to finish the sentence, like troubles can cause...

Farts. Farts. No one to blame but... Farts. That was not created. Troubles can cause rashes. Headaches. No one to blame but... the present. Troubles can cause rashes, headaches. No one to blame, but the president.

I was gonna say laundry detergent because we're in a laundry room, but I can take on my, on my toes. Maybe we'll just, we'll put that on the Instagram for like a morbid mad lint time. Fill in the blank. We'll post two. Finish Charles Watson, suicide notes.

Yes. So footprints were also found circling a tree near where Charles's body was found. Was he found with a pencil? Like, was he gonna finish? I don't know. If he was found with a pencil actually, that's kind of funny. He probably was, I would assume. Right.

In fact, a circular path had been bore deep in the snow like around the trees. It was clearly just walking in circles. Yeah, investigators said this indicated that he had clearly been pacing around in a circle for a long time before killing himself. Must have been a little dizzy. Yeah, seriously. Now, so now that they knew who the perpetrator was, because it was pretty obvious, they were able to piece together what happened exactly. Now some of them had been killed by shotgun blast, some by beating, and then some by a combination of the two. And there didn't seem to be like a rhyme or reason to this. It was kind of just whatever you felt like. Now sometime after Charles deliberately sent Arthur

into town away from the scene. He did send him away. He definitely salvaged him. Yeah, because our first time I did this on his own accord. The two middle-lossing girls carrying Maybell left the house and they were going to go visit their aunt Nungal. Behind the taco bar. Behind the taco bar. I want a taco bar.

Oh, shit. Where is that like the taco bell, but it's in a barn. It's the taco barn. I want a taco barn. Oh shit. Where is that like the taco bell but it's in a barn? It's a taco barn. I like it. I like it. Fuck yeah. So behind the tobacco barn on the property Charles was waiting with a shotgun. Well that's so fucked. He was literally waiting out his two young like middle girls. It's 12 year old 70-year-old. Like, what? The 43-year-old asshole shot his daughters and then bludgeoned them both to finish them off and place their bodies inside the barn. Like, what? I can't.

I wish there was more known about this case. It's, that's the thing. It's like, we know that, like, I'm a chunk of it, but it's like, details and more details. So much went with Charles. It's like, know that like a chunk of it, but it's like details So much went with Charles. It's like it drives me nuts So he then returned to the family home where Fanny 37 years old was sitting on the porch He immediately shot me 37 and eight fucking kids I'm saying. Oh, yeah She she got immediately shot in the chest with the shotgun,

moved her aside, went inside, saw Marie, and also saw her two younger brothers, the four-year-old and the two-year-old James and Raymond. The two little boys ran too high. I know, I read that. Let that sink in. So Charlie shot Marie, just outright boom. She fell in front of the fireplace, and then he found the two boys and

Shot and bludgeoned them both to death. Oh my god. A two-year-old and they ran away from their father Who had a shotgun? Like killing everybody. Oh, that's so sad. Now finally he got to baby Mary Lou so sad. Now finally he got to baby Mary Lou. Let's do this fast. I found her depth certificate. She wasn't even four months old. She was three months in like like how are many days. Oh wow. That makes a huge difference but it's still like it's three months old. Yeah that's fucked. You fucking monster. I hate that. Not just a three-year month old. Your baby. Like this is your three-month old. Like what is wrong with you?

He bludgeoned Mary Lou in her crib. Her cause of death was a fractured skull. And on her death certificate it says fractured skull and it says homicide. He then posed the seven bodies with their arms crossed over their chests like they were laying in a funeral. And he put rocks underneath their heads. I heard that he put rocks over their chests like they were laying in a funeral and he put rocks underneath their heads. I heard that he put rocks over their eyes too. I was actually just going to say some accounts say that stones were placed over their eyes as well but nobody really knows. It's not totally

confirmed. They definitely had their arms crossed and they definitely had rocks under their heads like pillows. The stones over the eyes some say say they were, and some say they weren't. Yeah, it's like, I don't even know how to explain. It's one of those things that it's like the weird caring thing, you know what I mean? But it's also not caring because it's raw. Yeah, it's not caring at all, but like placing the hands over the chest like in a funeral position, you know,

it's just very odd. So the entire family was gone besides Arthur. Also, the entire family was buried in a single plot. So the victims were laying next to their murder. Yeah, I think that's fucked up. And it's in Browder family cemetery just outside of Germanton, which I think it's just fucked up.

Like I think it's the same one. I'm pretty sure it's as father on this thing. I think it's like, oh, I don't want to wrote that. Not really. Not exactly. Let's take that title away from him, I think. I think that's, I don't want to wrote that. Not really. Not exactly. Let's take that title away from him, I think. I wonder who decided that. I know.

That they would be like, we're trying to ask together. They're also very next to William. They're first. They used to be adults. But it's like Jesus. Well, the oldest, technically. Yeah, technically actually. Over 5,000 people attended the family's funeral.

Holy shit. Because the case just blew up. I mean, this was the hugeest thing to happen. I think it was mostly people just being curious. I mean, but a lot of people also liked this family. Yeah, I mean. So Charles' brain was removed for analysis after his death, and it was brought down to Baltimore to Johns Hopkins because they were like, something's gotta be out here. What the fuck made him do that? And they were also trying to find out, did that hit with the maddick cause something in his brain like that we can see damage. Right.

They said nothing abnormal about his brain, totally normal. And they said that head injury did not cause brain damage. So it had nothing to do with that. So it didn't have to do with that. Now of course like I said, the town went nuts about this case. And Charles's brother, Maryann, saw this as an opportunity. He decided to turn the crime scene into some kind of weird-ass, tors-detraction, which I would totally go to.

Oh, yeah. But I'm going to judge it from afar. He charged visitors 25 cents to tour the actual house in crime scenes. And now again, this isn't like today where everything gets fucking cleaned up right away. It was just there. It blood stains and all. This was made of a literal crime scene. Yeah.

It's gross. I mean, there was copious amounts of blood all over the house. I mean, yeah, how many people got murdered? There's at least one photo that I'll post that's like of one of the rooms. And it's just like you can see just a Splatter of blood on the floor. It's all it's a lot of Mary and Splatt if we're talking about the same picture in front of the fireplace It's all who oh Marie's oh, yeah, Marie. Oh, yeah, it isn't like a lot of this. Yeah, but then you see the crib too. Yeah, fuck that Yeah, it's not okay. I didn't like any of those pictures. No, I don't love it and

Marie's Christmas cake had been left untouched in the house because the family was murdered before they could eat any of it. And she had, she had finished it. It was like this beautiful little cake sitting on the, and it just kind of was like this, it became this really gross symbol, you know, I mean like this really weird symbol of like look this family woke up that made a cake and now they all died. No, it's just a very odd thing. Now, this cake kind of became like a main attraction. I don't know. I had raisins on top of it and people going by decided it would be cool to take the raisins

as souvenirs. And so, you know, so the assholes running the museum had to encase the cake and glass eventually because they didn't want people taking the raisins. I mean I can't judge because like the chef fascinates me so I can't even be like weird assholes. Well actually I probably wouldn't do that but I wouldn't be tempted. But I would be tempted to be like oh I could just take after the five-year run of the tour the cake was taken home by a lost and relative and it was buried interesting. Which I don't know if it was just like burying it because it's like a part of Marie. Yeah I could see that. So it's like it's special. I don't know and it became kind of again like a symbol of this family. Right. Like a token. Now during the five, now five years this house

was a tourist attraction. And it had a big clean up or any. No. And it drew sightseers by the They're being cleaned up or any no and it drew sightseers by the Thousands and supposedly this included John Dillinger You don't know who that is do you? I don't It sounds familiar He's like a famous American gangster bank robber all I knew that You're gonna get so much shit about I. I mean, I'm a millennium. Bring it on, everybody.

Bring it on. So yeah, that's interesting. Everybody listening will think that's pretty interesting. The John Dillinger came to see this house. That's fucking awesome. Crazy. Whoa. Now the house was eventually demolished.

But now the site is said to have, of course, tons of ghost sightings. I mean, duh. People say they see the dead children. They see Charles himself. I don't want that. They see Charles in the woods sometimes. Ew. I know, I'm not into it.

Oh, stay out of the woods. There's also a fun little legend that says that, whenever it snows, it snows on everyone else's grave, but Charles is. And when the leaves fall and autumn, that leaves fall and everybody else's grave, except for Charles's. And when it when the leaves fall in autumn that leaves fall in everybody else's grave except for Charles's. But aren't they all buried in the same spot? Well, they have different gravestones. Oh. Now, so like there's been books, there's been poems,

there's been songs written about this whole thing because way back in the day, there was these things called murder ballads. A case would happen like this and these like, bluegrass bands would write murder ballads about it. It started like opening up their washboards. Yeah, exactly. And then like, you can just murder murderers. And then jump in. And that's how it went too.

They were like murder murder murder murder murder murder murder murder murder murder murder murder murder murder murder murder. And you were like, oh, I know that case. And you're like, I'm famous. That case included murder, murder, murder, murder, murder. And you were like, oh, I know that case. And you were like, I'm famous. That case included murder, I bet. No. No murder. So in these songs, which is just fucked, I guess they turn, they were used as weird lullabies.

Like parents would sing these to their kids as like cautionary children. Are you telling me? Are you telling me? No joke. And this is not me making it up. They would literally sing these as like cautionary tales. Like cautionary tales. And I use easy don't fuk your dad do you remember the the office episode with Dwight

Trude and he's singing your rules you better learn your rules if you don't you'll be eaten in your sleep that's exactly what I think of copyright. Copyright TM, the office. Yeah, don't see what it's like. Oh, so yeah, they do I true to it. What did they sing to them? How was that cautionary? Oh, I have a couple of lyrics there. I can't tell.

So a bluegrass duo, the Stanley Brothers, penned a ballad called The Story of the Lawson Family. Which sounds so pleasant. Yeah. They sold it to Columbia Records and it actually became like a hit song. No way. Yeah, no way. In like the 30s or something?

Yeah. I think even like people know it now. Shit. The song is fucked. I'm sure. I know how anyone, it's not like they alluded to anything. They were just like, yeah, murder. Yeah, ex.

So these are some of the lyrics. They're like really disturbing. It's not like they alluded to anything, they were just like, yeah murder. Yeah, ex. So these are some of the lyrics, they're like really disturbing. It's this quote, they say he killed his wife at first while the little ones did cry. Please Papa, won't you spare our lives, it is so hard to die. Those are some of the lyrics. I just got chills. I think they're actually really fucking gross for taking like artistic license with this. Like it's not like they were like and then he went and he murdered his whole family and that's really sad. They were like this is what the children cried to him as he did it.

It's like, but you don't know that. You made that up. Like and that's really gross. And why did your brain go there? Yeah. Hey gross. Hey, it. But people would sing that to their kids. Oh, what? I mean, if you do look under Surur rhymes as a whole, they're all fucked. London Bridge is falling down. And all of them. There's something that we have a book of nursery rhymes that someone gave us for our like baby shower.

Sorry if you're listening to this and you were the one that gave us a nursery rhyme book, but like what the fuck dude? They're so racist. So sexist. And sexist. Racist, so sexist. I mean, they're all like maids in the kitchen and shit and I'm like bitch please.

But the racism in there is no way no beyond. I mean, there's so many that I'm like, I'm not reading you that. Like, you like changing the words. I will change the words because I'm not reading them racist old poems. The fuck's crazy. I will change the words because I'm not reading them racist old poems. That's crazy.

So weirdly, in 1945, Arthur Lawson, the only surviving member of the family, died in a freak truck accident in Walnut Cove, North Carolina. At the age of 31, yeah, that's messed up. He left me on a wife and four children of his own. Wow. And it's just weird. That's a weird tragic accident to happen after you survived an entire family massacre. You know, like damn. So it wasn't until 1990 that a book about the massacre was published that actually let out a few of the secrets that could have led to the tragedy. And I think Ash is gonna get a little more into that. Here I go. Because, yeah, because there's a lot of theories that are serenac, because again, we've got here.

We know, we know it was Charles, we know what happened. We know who done it. Nobody knows why the fuck this happened. No one knows. And that's the biggest thing that everybody's like, okay, we know everything else about this. Why the fuck did he do that? Like it doesn't make any sense. So without further ado. Alright, so theory one. Theory time. Theory time. Theory number one. Next to it I wrote, yeah, alright. So some

people believe that Charles had a medical condition like a way of saying he had himself in the head of the Nax axe and people thought it changed the way that he thought and it made him snap But we can already cross that one off because you said they examined his brain. Exactly. And it was fine And it seems like he already kind of had a slight temper, which I feel like every father in the 20s had it like farmer father Had an ass temper every father has a temper like, yeah, until now pretty much. So the theory within theory number one, the medical condition is that I read somewhere that Charlie had a growth on his chest.

Oh, I saw something about that. Which caused him a great deal of pain. So one day he decided it was time to end the pain and he just didn't wanna go alone. So we took everyone with him. Yeah. But that makes no sense because one, like they would have known that when they found Tim we took everyone with him. Yeah. That makes no sense, because one, like they would have known that when they found him

and did his autopsy. Yeah. Two, why would he just like kill the whole fucking family? Yeah, why would he just kill a cell author? Yeah. That's none of those things, made sense. And if you want to end the pain, you're just gonna do it.

So, theory number two, I wrote next to it, that real shit. Oh, that real shit. So, the low down on theory number two is that Charlie was doing the damn thing with his daughter Marie. Oh! Did you bring your barf bag? Um, so suspicions were starting to arise, so he basically just felt that he had to kill the whole family

because that's the way you deal with, like, your grown-ass and such, to all the legends. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you just take everybody down with you. You just started, you know, let's fuk my daughter daughter But then people found out and he had to kill them all Seems legit. It's also believed that Marie was pregnant with her father's child I found multiple sources that said Marie had confessed to her friend LMA a few weeks earlier At during a sleepover that she was pregnant with her dad's baby and that both of her parents knew. Which would explain why Fannie Mae looks so like upset in the family picture.

She just looks like she's done. Yeah, she really does. I heard that a cousin in the family said that she overheard her mom and a few other lost and women talking at the funeral about how Fannie had found out that Marie and Charlie were having a relationship before Christmas. Yep. And that she was like completely sick over it. Oh sure. I could have dealt.

Yeah, and this all, they seem like they seem legit. I mean, yeah, because multiple people and multiple family members there. Well, and then a neighbor named Sam Hill who was like living by the family because he's a neighbor said that when Charlie found out Marie was pregnant with his child He cornered her and threatened her that Quote unquote, there would be some killing done if she were to tell her mom or anybody else. Oh, it's no big deal Yeah, yeah, like so who knows if I'm here is that because I mean people make shit up afterwards Yeah, for sure and then the other thing is it's like did they know if Marie was pregnant like it

I can't find anywhere that fits confirmed that she was pregnant I think maybe I haven't for me heard anything that like somebody else confirmed I've only heard that she herself Told her friend, but wouldn't they know like LMA or was it to Couldn't I mean in the 20s you just kind of knew your body You knew whether you were not. I'm just saying like it's hard to... she could have just like missed a period and just knew the times. You knew why? Yeah so she could have just told a friend like I know I'm pregnant. Well that's

fucked. Because that's what it seems like. She told a friend what LMA is that her name. Yeah. Well I'd be like really awful too if if she actually wasn't pregnant. I know. And then the whole family just died. Exactly. Because he thought she was. Yeah. Like that's fucked.

That's really fucked. And then the other couple things that I wanted to talk about was the like theories regarding why Arthur was spared. Yeah. That's because that's fascinating. Well, and I just, I think it was done on purpose. Yeah. So, theory number one is that Charles and Arthur away,

because he knew he wouldn't be able to kill everybody with Arthur there as Arthur was taller, and he could have been able to stop his father. And I can see, and you know what? Like, now thinking about that, because that is a good theory. And I think also it seems to me like Arthur was a good shot himself. He was a hunter. Right. He knew how to use a shotgun. So he and he had his own shotgun. Exactly. So I think he was too worried that maybe he he had way

too much like means to defend himself like you're saying. It makes sense. Yeah. The other theory is that he intended to kill Arthur but in the time that Arthur was away his like brother came over with his nephews. So he had to think fast and Arthur was away, his brother came over with his nephews. So he had to think fast and Arthur was spared only because Charlie had killed himself in the meantime. Yeah, that one to me is flimsier because it's like why send him away at all? You know, if you already plan on killing everybody. Because I really just want to put a wrench in your plan. And you could have just said go later.

Yeah, exactly. Like Will Hunt later. Right, like don't worry. Or just hand him one shotgun shell if you really want to. The other theory that I found which I don't personally agree with and I actually have my own theory at that and but this is the last one I found. He heard that Arthur didn't believe Marie was in a relationship or pregnant with her dad's baby and he knew that he would provide a cover if it were to get out after the murders. That Marie was pregnant. Yeah, I mean. That one's a little shaky too, I feel like. My personal theory.

Which I agree with this one. And I actually just came up with it while we were about to start recording. It just popped into my head. Is that he was the oldest boy other than the boy the past away. But he was the oldest boy so he could carry on the family name.

Exactly. Which I feel like is especially back then it was so important. Yeah, to carry on now. A lot of people place a lot of importance on the boy being able to carry on the family name. Yeah, carry on the family name is apparently huge. Yeah, but yeah, I think especially back then it was just it was just what it was like you had to have a boy to carry that is important So I feel like that makes a lot of sense and I think it was even like bigger that one to carry on the family name And two he's the oldest boy. Yep, so he was almost like a like a token child I know and I wonder if Anybody like talked to Arthur after this and like can like asked him I read that his

to Arthur after this and like asked him about the Marie thing that his kids I think asked him about it when he would never talk about it. I would imagine he wouldn't. I mean I wouldn't fuck it up. Yeah. My whole family was annihilated. And he I mean Arthur probably doesn't know why he was spared and I'm sure he struggled with that. Oh I'm sure like survivors guilt. Yeah like absolutely. So and I wonder if they ever were like do you know if your dead was having an ancestral relationship with your sister? Like, do you know if that was happening? And I do, and I wouldn't comment on that. And talk about it, but it's like you just wish he would have said something like yes or no. Because every secret that you want to know died with that family. Yeah. The first time and family. Yeah. It really did. Because when you got the first crush, that's it. Right. Now it's just speculation and people saying

that somebody said this, somebody said that. Mm-hmm. It's crazy. So really you don't know because who knows? Maybe she wasn't pregnant. I know. Maybe she was though. I think it's most likely she was. And it's I believe the incest story. Yeah, because one I know obviously people make shit up all the time about everything. That doesn't come out of nowhere. But incest is one of those things that's like, if this family member is saying it, then even if there's not full-blown incest, something weird's there. If people are insinuating that you are possibly having inappropriate really with your child, then something is off there.

You know, I mean, like, if people are actually insinuating, I mean, like, people are dicks all the time. Like, the biggest pet peeve of mine is this new thing where, like, celebrities will post photos of them, like, kissing their kids on the lips. Oh, and people are thinking, And mothers will go fucking bananas and be like, you're a pervert and stuff. First of all, like, here's my, ready. I'm stepping on my soapbox because first of all if you look at a picture of a parent kissing their child Like young child and that's the first thing you think and the first thing you think of is sexualizing that image You're fucked. You should be locked away. Yeah, because you're a fucking dangerous pervert yourself Like you if you look at children kissing their parents and think that

Something sexual is there then you have sexualized the situation in your gross, right? And it's like my two-year-olds I will give them kisses on the lips until they tell me mom your gross. Don't kiss me on the lips Yeah as soon as they say that I'll be like okay, and I'll stop doing it But until then I'm gonna get as many kisses as I possibly can. And it just drives me nuts. It's weird to think that's weird. It's very weird to think that's weird.

Yeah. So I'm not saying like they were lovey or something and people insinuated that they were incestuous. I'm saying if people are literally like, no, they're definitely like bumpin' uglys, there's a serious... I've never heard that before. You have?

No, that's amazing. You're bumping ugly. Oh my god. I'm gonna say that all the fucking time I can't believe you've never heard this and I know you're bumping ugly with so and so. Oh my god That's my newest shit. That is my newest shit. I'm really glad I could introduce that to you. Thank you so much. You're welcome Hashtag blessed Maybe I didn't know who John Dillinger was, but now I'm gonna say bump an ugly is left and right. People are bump an ugly is left and right. I'm shitting. That's awesome.

I'm so glad I introduced that to you. I feel really good about myself. I'm so glad. Yeah. That's like an old term too. I guess not a lot of people use it now. And I'm just- I've never heard that in my life. I'm an ancient being. So I think it's not even that much older than me. I'm not. But I feel like an ancient being. You know what I think is fun.

I want to listen to them. Sometimes people tell me that I'm an old soul. That I am an old soul. Yeah. And sometimes I'm like, yeah, totally. But then other times I'm like, yeah, what are you saying? Like what is the phrase you just used to? Kind of an old soul. Thanks and in certain ways you are an old soul and certain ways you are very much

I'm a gypsy millennial I'm a gypsy soul. So yeah, so what I was saying there was like if people are really going into like the you must be bump and ugly bump and old glues that you have put something out there that is not just children loving their parents. Yeah, they're 100%. So, and it's just like the Hinter Kai-Fec thing, it's like, there's too much where there's smoke, there's fire, and there was too much chitter chatter about this relationship, and then you look at Marie

in that photo, you look at the way they're positioned in the middle, like they're the parents, and there's just a lot, there's a lot that's like, huh, you could have a psychology field. Yeah, you really could. So unfortunately, we will probably never know. Yeah, there's any of these questions. Charles Lawson Guilds' soul family. He did. He's the worst. So, uh, so yeah, Mary Christmas. And a Happy New Year. That's the first of our Christmas holiday extravaganza. Our December festivists for all of us. We could take a couple recommendations for a Christmas case. Because we have some ideas, but if we're not so-

You guys, we have the rest of our month planned out, but we have one week that we're touring with of what to do. So if you guys have some recommendations, throw them our way. We're looking for Christmas cases. Anything Christmas or not just Christmas holiday. Yeah, holiday. Hanukkah murders.

You know those Hanukkah murders. Plans of murders. Plans of murders, you know. Winter solstice murders. Plans of murders. Plans of murders, you know. Uh, winter solstice murders, boxing day murders. Throw them our way. And we'll throw them in the mess with it, because we have one week that we're just, you know, we're toyin' with. So give us your suggestions, let us know.

We're gonna throw up those morbid mad lips. We're gonna barf them out on the Instagram. We're gonna barf them out on the Instagram. We're gonna bump up those morbid mad lips We're gonna barf the Instagram We're gonna barf the Instagram We're gonna bump them out ugly We're all We're all gonna ask you guys what would be the Your worst fear Yeah, what your worst fear

Personified So keep an eye out And we'll be giving you You will be getting two episodes this week Yeah, what you're worse- Personified. Personified. So keep an eye out. And we'll be getting you, you will be getting two episodes this week. I'm like last week when we almost- I'm not talking about it. You know, God haunted death. So-

You know I had trouble sleeping that night. Really? I just thought it was like a baby. Of course you fucking did. I was a little spooked. I took some adble PM though and then I was like- But that was also fun doing a live. Yeah, we should do more We should do that more. We should do one on like ex-miss. Yeah, we should we're gonna we'll like bump one out every now

And then because we were surprised so many people popped on and so many interactions too, so that was fun So thanks guys for doing that with us. We'll definitely do that more often because I was scared But we did it and when we looked like shit. No, we didn't even yelled at us. Yeah, no one told us we looked like You know swamp beasts. So I get that a lot. I looked like a bridge troll that night, but it's fine. Well, thanks guys, you were red. So yeah, so you'll be getting a second episode this week.

And your second episode is going to take a look at some of Santa's helpers. And I don't mean the elves. I'll just put it that way. Da da da da! Stay tuned for that. I'll be updating you guys about any merch that's gonna be happening, which will hopefully be happening soon. And yeah, make sure you write and review and subscribe. If you have a feeling like you want to give us a

one star review because you want to tell us that we are trying to be Karen and Georgia for my favorite murder. To be got that recently. You know just go ahead and like don't do that. Maybe just go fuck yourself. Maybe just like say it to the mayor or something. I don't know. Say it to the person next to you. But don't give us one star views because you don't like that two women are talking about your crime I can't help that I'm a woman. Yeah, it annoys me like first of all I love when people lovingly compare us to my favorite murder. Yeah, that's a compliment That's a huge compliment and honestly people giving because we've gotten a couple people that are like that will do the uh

They're trying to be Karen and Georgia. I don't think we are. We're not, but second, okay, even if we were like again, okay, you want to tell me that I'm a second rate Karen and Georgia, I will take that. Yeah, fucking thanks. Thanks. Thank you. I noticed that's like a thing with women through crime podcasts though, and even paranormal podcasts. I know I'm going off on a tangent, but whatever you want. Fucking do shut this off, you're all still. I listen to a, I'm gonna give them a quick shout out because they're awesome. Two girls, one ghost.

It's an awesome podcast, it's two girls. And one ghost. And actually one ghost. So they talk about like they do one topic, paranormal topic, and they both do like stories. And they're great. They're great at it. They're really well researched. They're funny. They're fun to listen to. They spook you out. They're awesome. And I notice that they get that a lot on their reviews that they're like,

they're trying to be caring. And I'm like, well, that's just dumb because they talk about ghosts. They're not even talking about true crime. So it's just weird. You know what? We're- Bladies. Women into a true crime podcast So it's just weird. You know what? We're ladies. Women into a true crime podcast. We're always gonna have that. Oh, whoa, whoa, whatever. So yeah, I feel like doing that don't do that. But, uh, yeah. Besides that, rate and review. And if you want to follow us on Instagram, you can find us at Morbid Podcasts. If you'd like to tweet us, you can tweet us at a Morbid podcast.

If you'd like to write us some snail mail on the email, you can email us at Morbid Podcasts. If you'd like to tweet us, you can tweet us at a Morbid Podcasts. If you'd like to write us some snail mail on the email, you can email us at Morbid Podcasts at gmail.com. If you want to interact with our Facebook page, you can find that Morbid colon, a true crime podcast.facepoac.com. Yeah. Just kidding. I love that. I love that. I love that. That's part of it. Enjoy the Facebook group. Yes. And if you are feeling so inclined, you can donate to our Patreon at patreon.com slash morbid podcast. And you can become a patron. A patronus. So we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird. Christmas Merry Christmas happy holiday

At least Navidad Merry Christmas At least Navidad Holidays Merry Christmas Merry Christmas Merry Christmas Happy Holidays It's the best time of the year in sync Bye bye bye.

Bye bye. Don't really want to make it tough. Pat enough. They really have no. You may, you may hate me. But I ain't no lie baby. Bye bye bye. I was gonna remix it and say I'm still here.

Shit. Well now I keep hitting the table with my knees this time to go. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill? Or are they made to kill? I'm Candice DeLong, and on my podcast podcast Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively

on Amazon Music, I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler. On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings, Breaking Down Lori Vallow, a.k.a. Mommy Doom stays motives, and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder? I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine.

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