Morbid - Episode 318: The Horrific Murder of Katy Hawelka Part 2

Episode Date: May 14, 2022

In part two of the Horrific Murder of Katy Hawelka we pick right back up where we left off with Brian McCarthy, a complete and utter waste of space, sitting at the police department wasting everyone’s time with made up stories about what happened the night Katy was attacked. Luckily by the end of his interrogation Brian was arrested and confessed. The rest of the episode covers the incredible determination Katy’s family had throughout the legal process and a glimpse into exactly why they should not have to suffer through parole hearings for this monster every two years. If you feel so inclined after listening to the episode, which we hope you do, please sign this petition to deny Brian McCarthy’s parole. SIGN HERE  The Family's Facebook Page for Updates about Katy's killer's parole  Author of A Stranger Killed Katy, William D. LaRue's website Read A Stranger Killed Katy by William D. LaRue  As always, thank you to our sponsors: HelloFresh: Get sixteen free meals, plus three gifts, with code morbid16 at HELLOFRESH.com/morbid16 Aurate: For 20% off your first Aurate purchase, go to AurateNewYork.com/morbid and use promo code morbid GoodRX: For simple, smart savings on your prescriptions, check GoodRx… go to GoodRX.com/morbid BetterHelp: Morbid listeners get 10% off their first month at BetterHelp.com/morbid Purple: Go to  Purple.com/morbid10, code morbid10, for 10% off any order of $200 or more. Peloton: The Peloton Bike+ is now $500 less, its best price yet! Including FREE delivery and setup… Visit onepeloton.com to learn more. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, Prime members, you can listen to morbid, early, and ad-free on Amazon music. Download the app today. You're listening to a morbid network podcast. Whether you're running errands on your daily commute, or even at home, you can enjoy all your audio entertainment in one app, the Audible app. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog. This includes the latest bestsellers and new releases. Plus get full access to a growing selection of included audiobooks, audible originals,

and more. If you've been wanting to form good habits, break bad ones, and improve motivation, atomic habits written and narrated by James Clear is a great lesson. It'll reshape your mindset on progress and success by helping you develop strategies to transform your habits. New members can try audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash wondery pod or text wondery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days.

That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wondery pod or text wondery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. Angie has made it easier than ever to connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Whether it's routine maintenance and emergency repair or a dream project, Angie lets you browse home on her reviews, compare quotes from multiple local pros, and even book a service instantly. So the next time you have a home project, just Angie that and start getting the most out

of your home. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's ANGI.com. It's time to spring into something delicious with Hello Fresh. Every week you get fresh pre-portion ingredients and recipes to live in right here. Ah! Get 16 free meals plus three free gifts with code morbid16 at hellofresh.com slash morbid16. Hey weirdos, I'm Ash and I'm Alena and this is morbid. It sure is. We're here. We're here and we're creepy and we're weird and so are you.

And we are back for part two of the absolutely horrific and brutal murder of Katie Awelco. We are not going to get into any business today really because this is going to be a long one, guys. All right. I almost turned it into three episodes but I didn't want to do that to you. I know like people which are amazing. Yeah. Are like, oh my god, give us all the extra parts but I'm like, you know what? I got to get it into part two. Yeah. I also feel like part two will just be very, very long. So essentially it will be three parts. It's essentially going to be three parts just in one.

Yeah, so you won't have to wait. So like for part three, like two parts in part two. You know, parts, math, yeah. How do you, the only thing I do want to say is that the author of the book that I've already read twice now, for this case, I literally read it twice. Oh my gosh. That's that good. Wow. His name is William Luroux. Like we mentioned in part one, I gave like a couple of his stories that he had in there, but I gave them like very

generally because I was like, you have to go read how he writes it. Right. And he has so much detail about the family. He's talked to so many people. It's just like so worth the read. Yay. Because there's just so much more there. Like after you listen to this, I know you're gonna be like, holy shit, I need more on this case. Oh, yeah.

Just because this case is wild. And it didn't get nearly enough attention. That's how I feel. I wanna read the book when we're done with this. So I feel like I'm telling you, go read that book because you are gonna get nearly enough attention. That's how I feel. I wanna read the book when we're done with this. So I feel like I'm telling you, go read that book because you are gonna get a load more. Like you're gonna come out of there being like what the actual fuck.

Oh, I'm definitely getting this book. Yeah, and so what's really cool is that William LaRue has a website and I'll link it in our show notes. And he wrote like the nicest post saying about our episode, the first part of our episode that we did on Katie Huwalka. And it was just like a really nice post. You said like very kind words. I know. Thank you. I'm telling you, I'm not being hyperbolic here when I say it made my actual fucking week. Like I was like, oh yeah. So and to know that, you know, like I guess the her family

and friends run a Facebook page as well, which we will link as well, with just updates anytime the parole comes up, which we're going to talk about in this episode, they update, and they actually posted it too, so they were happy with the episode, and that was like, yeah, that's all we wanted to do. That's always just like, it really made, it's oh, okay, you know, I just really want to do your love to one proud. So I'm so happy that that's happening here. And I hope I continue. But I will link all of this stuff. Definitely go grab his book, go check out the website, go check out the Facebook, we'll link it all. But we're going to get right into it today because

there's a lot to talk about. So here we are. So when we last left you at part one, they had already arrested Brian McCarthy. They had interviewed him, he had denied everything. He was a big sack of lying bullshit. Exactly. And he was now painting himself as a victim as well, saying that some man wearing a black jacket had come out of nowhere and had kicked him in the back, the neck, the head, he couldn't decide which one. Yeah, the invisible man.

There was no marks on him whatsoever. His X-rays showed no issue. Like, he was fine. Right. He's just a lying sack of shit. And he was also saying he never saw a girl. But was then asking about a girl. Exactly.

And he only saw a black jacket, that's it. But then he couldn't even, when they asked him, he was like, I don't even know if I saw the black jacket on someone. Did you just see it floating in the void? Where did you see it? And like, why did you bring it up? Yeah, he was a, he was a liar.

And he slipped a few times with, you know, where he would say like, I didn't rape anybody. I didn't assault anybody, but they knew he did. Well, in the fact that he said that before, that was even put on the table. Like, he wasn't even supposed to have known that a girl was raped. Exactly.

He said in the interview, you know, this guy's telling me that I assaulted someone and this guy, and now you're telling me that I'm being charged with rape. And she's like, I never said that. And she's made it was like, yeah, I had never brought up. But now you are. But now you are.

And as we ended part one, they, she's made it out, stood up after that interview and he told Brian McCarthy, you are being charged with assaults and rape. Bye. And that was the end of part one. So August 29th was the day of the actual crime and also the day they spent hours

trying to get Brian McCarthy to confess, and he just wouldn't. And like I said, denied, denied, denied. But he was getting to a point where they were like, I feel like if we just get him a little bit over this, he's going to crack. Right. It's there. He's already slipping little things out that he doesn't even realize he is. We just got to get him over that, huh?

It's so wild. Like, when you see this play out to you, like just how people can tell that someone's about to crack and the different tactics that they'll use. Oh yeah, because there's so many different ways you can come from every angle. I just like, slapped my microphone. You came from every angle.

Thank you. Wow, okay, sorry. I talk with my hands when I get, as I'm sure you guys have seen it, like virtual live shows and stuff, I slap microphones all the time. Oh, yeah. When I get really into a case,

my hands are gonna be a fly-in. I know that's why it's nice that the virtual live shows when we have the clip on mics. Yeah. I mean, it is hard though, because then I am known to like grab my leg. Yup, like clutch my curls.

Clutch my curls. So you clutch that my mic. Yeah, it happens, but you know, sorry about that, I'm really into this. But luckily for the investigators, there happened to be a family friend of McCarthy's, who is also a senior investigator with the New York State Police Bureau of Investigations, and they were a family friend of the McCarthy's. Oh, okay.

Now, his name was Lawrence Maynard, and it could be Maynard Manor. I'm not exactly sure which way. He knew McCarthy's parents, but he also knew Brian, and he knew Brian from a kid. So he knew what a shipbag he was, and he knew that it may be up to him to convince him to confess. Okay. So he was like, if I go in there, maybe just having a friendly face, maybe it'll make him, if he has feelings, maybe it will, some of it will help. Well, that's how they do that whole good cut back. Exactly.

And it's like, when you know someone since they were a kid, you're hoping that you're gonna trust something. Yeah. Now, in the afternoon, that same afternoon, after giving McCarthy some time between investigations, they were like, let's let him chill out. To shit his pants. Think about it a little more.

Think about all the mistakes he made in that interview. Yeah. So they brought Manor into the the mistakes he made in that interview. Yeah. So they brought Manor into the station and he asked to speak with McCarthy alone. Okay. So already McCarthy's probably like, oh fuck, also two-way glass here, like never alone and now you're never alone.

Actually, he didn't ask to, that's the thing. He didn't want to talk to him in the interrogation room. He asked to talk to him in an office. Oh, okay. So this was not going to be an interrogation yet. He was like, I just want to chat with him for a second. Got it. And they asked McCarthy, do you want to do that?

And he said yes. Okay. So they, you know, they went in there 10 minutes. They were in that office. Then Manor came out and said, chief Meitat, McCarthy would like to change his original statement. Mm. So I don't know what happened, but. So in Maytot in Lieutenant McHendry, who were the ones that were initially in the interrogation,

and they told him if he was willing to tell them what events occurred that previous evening when, you know, we want to hear it. So if you're ready to tell us, we're here. And he said he was finally ready to tell the truth. I feel like it's not going to be the truth. So he began with the same ready to tell the truth. I feel like it's not gonna be the truth. So he began with the same story he had originally told. He said he was near the campus. He was peeing next to that fence,

near the opening in the gate, where the shortcut is near the walker arena. He said when he was there, he saw a guy and a girl sitting in the grass talking and laughing. This was Katie and her friend Todd Kilburn. Right. Now he said he literally sat on a rock a little bit away from them and just watched them.

That's fucking creepy. Fucking creep. He said then he saw them get up and walk and he followed them far enough behind that he would not be seen. He said he could hear them say their goodbyes and he said they said friendly goodbyes, even saying he heard like a sealator or something like that. I think when Todd Kilburn told the story, he said this to like they said their goodbyes, even saying he heard like a sea later or something like that. Um, I think when Todd Kilburn told the story, he said this to like they said they're goodbyes after he tried to say like, I'll walk you and she was like, no, no, no. Yeah. And he said like,

she gave me a little kiss. Yeah. And that was it. Like it was a very happy, like, just friendly experience. Two more friends. I care about you by like, see later. It was like a very nice ending. From what Brian first says, this is exactly how that went. Now, he heard the CEO later, something casual like that. And keep in mind, once they were parting ways, he followed her through the gate, again, far enough that she wouldn't notice his presence. So he says, quote, as I was walking out, the girl was squatting in the corner peeing. And when I walked by, I didn't say anything. I didn't really see her at first because she was sitting in the dark. Then I got right on top of her.

She scared me and I said, oh, excuse me. And she said, that's okay. He then tried to say she was bleeding from what he saw. She was already bleeding. He was seriously trying to say she was bleeding before he got to her. Now remember, he just said, I heard them say goodbye and then I followed her. At what point did she start bleeding? So if you're following her, at what point did this all occur? And how did she scare you if she, if you knew where she was? That's the thing. Like it was. So he's saying saying I followed her. I followed her.

Yeah. He's not saying why he followed her, but he's saying he followed her. He said it. And then he's saying, like you said, then all of a sudden, she's just in the dark peeing already, first of all. You're right. And that you didn't see her and were scared by her. But if you're following her, you're following her.

And also, where did she start bleeding? Right. Like, what do you talk about? None of this makes sense. He said even that she had her leg out of one of her pant legs because she was squatting to pee. Which also doesn't make sense because she's not far from campus. Like, she would just, she was.

I don't think that's true. She was in campus at that. I mean, I'm interested in not far from her dorm. Exactly. You know? Like, why would she squat to pee at the arena on the ground? Right. And also, she wouldn't have time to take her leg out of her jeans.

Like, think about the 80s, man. Like, type the jeans, weren't it? And I'm sure you're wearing the sneakers that you got on time. You got to pull your leg out. You didn't have time to do that in the space that he was coming. I don't know if this is just me, like, or let me know if you've ever peed in the woods. You don't take your pants, between them.

No, I've never taken my pants off to pee anywhere. You push them back a little. Exactly, you just squat. Right. And she just wasn't doing that. Like, that's not the truth at all. Like, no where did I find her, or port that said like,

there was pee on the ground. Right. Like that she, somebody had peed. Like, it just wasn't. Like, why, why even lie about that? That's such a weird fucking detail. That's the only way. And there was a Kentucky fried chicken outside of the gate.

Right. Across the parking lot. She could have just, she could have just peed in there. Right. That's the end. And there was a Kentucky fried chicken outside of the gate, right? Across the parking lot. She could have just gone to speed in there. Right. She didn't pee. And again, she's on campus. She's not far from her dorm. And he said, when this happened, he just quote, went over.

So again, he's like, oh, sorry. And she goes, that's okay. Very normal interaction between two strangers. Then he says, he just quote, went over and I pushed her into the wall and just, and then he said, I don't know how to say it. This infuriates me. You do. You can do it, but you're too chicken shit to relay it verbally. You fucking anal fissure. Like, are you kidding me? Yeah. You're, you, you don't know how to say it, but you know how to do it. Think of the word, Sprion, because you fucking did it. Right.

And to me, it's like you just came upon this girl, bumped into her and then shoved her against a wall. What the fuck is wrong with you? Yeah. Like, oh, this guy's an anal fisher, truly. The Great is a fine jewelry brand founded by Women for Women. Their piece is ranged from classic to statement to completely original, and honestly, a rate makes the jewelry that you've always wanted but could never find. I am such a stickler for good quality with jewelry, especially because I have super sensitive

skin. So if I like wear something in the shower, I'm turning green right away, I'm getting itchy, and guess what, I'm throwing whatever that was in the trash. And that is not the case with a rate. Or rate's gold feels substantial. And the diamonds, they sparkle and shine. It's very high quality jewelry, and it's beautiful. It's all real gold, so you can wear it, and you never have to take it off. You can shower with it, which is huge for me. It's very high quality jewelry and it's beautiful. It's all real gold so you can wear it and you never have to take it off. You can shower with it, which is huge for me. You can do your sports, you can sleep, cook anything.

It's jewelry for life. But the crazy thing is, because orate sells directly to you without the middleman markup, they can offer the same quality as traditional Fifth Avenue brands at a fraction of the cost. Orate literally hacked the jewelry market, making real gold accessible. The best, best, best thing in my opinion is that everything is ethically sourced and

sustainably made. Their gold is never mined, and their gemstones and diamonds are also certified conflict-free, so everyone can shop with a sparkling conscience. And then, my second favorite thing is that it was founded by women and made for women. Or rate was founded on the desire to shake up the jewelry market by offering modern women beautiful designs,

amazing quality at affordable prices, and ethically sourced pieces that they can wear every single day. And this is like important to know guys. If you're on the website already, what you should be, and you're eye eyeing a piece but you're not ready to splurge all in one go, get this. In addition to their transparent and fair pricing, or rate has also teamed up with a crew savings so that you can enjoy the option of saving up for your dream jewelry. A crew is a creditless way to save and buy. You just choose your product,

you open your crew savings account and make your first deposit, then you're creditless way to save and buy. You just choose your product, you open your accrues savings account, and make your first deposit. Then you're on your way to saving and earning rewards, which you can choose toward your purchase. Start saving for your orate purchase with a crew now. Plus, you'll save 10% in rewards toward your purchases as you save. I personally am a big orate chopper.

I love all of their jewelry. I have a bunch of stackable rings that they have, the gold ones with cute old diamonds in them, and then there's some that are like chains, they're super cute. But my favorite staple piece that nine out of 10 times, if you see me, I will be wearing it, is the Gemini necklace that I have from them? That thing, I've put that necklace through the ringer. I sleep with it on, I sweat with it on, I work out with it on, and I shower with it on on and it still looks as beautiful as the day I got it. For 20% off your first orate purchase go to oratenewjork.com slash morbid and use promo code morbid. That's 20% off with no minimum spend and they rarely have discounts as high as 20% off

So I really encourage you to shop now while it's going on. This is the best offer out there and it's exclusively for our listeners. So once again, go to oratenewyork.com slash morbid and use promo code morbid to get 20% off. That's a-u-r-a-t-e-newyork.com slash morbid and use promo code morbid to get 20% off. So he says, quote, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing said that he had been drinking, right? Yeah, he had. That goes back and forth though. Do you think also though that part of his anger was that he couldn't do something? Well, he tries to actually claim that a little bit. Yeah, but...

Or do you think he was just... No, I think he's a demon. Yeah. And I think he's a violent piece of shit. Oh, I think that he was. And I think he saw her and he said, I'm gonna rape her and I'm gonna hurt her if she fights me Right, and I think that was it. So yeah, and I think she fought him back and he hurt her

Yeah, I think so. I think he's just a fucking demon, but he tries to use that Because it's an excuse. Yeah, he tries to use it as an excuse like I got angry And it's like something beyond his control Yeah, and at one point he even says a crazier thing. So he's an idiot. Now this should tell you right here that he should be locked up forever, that he can't even say the words of what he did. Also, he's claiming to have shoved her in the wall and then tried but failed to rape her. And he really is trying to claim with her injuries that they saw that he shoved her into the wall one time. Just poop shoved her into the wall one time.

Just poop shoved her into the wall. No, you like he he's a hangout. Her family didn't recognize her when she was wheeled past them. Like, and you're saying you pushed her into a wall once. No, he like the cops knew they were like, you're a fucking hang nail. We don't need to listen to what you like. They didn't buy any of this shit, but they let him talk because regardless, he was confessing to something.

Now he said a couple of minutes after he just quote, went crazy, a car drove in. It left again, and then it came back. These were obviously the two guards. And so he basically relayed what Avedikian and Shandhi said happened, like the car came in, the car left. They came back again, then the two guards got him out. Now, what Maytot was like, okay, back it up. And he said, what did you do to her exactly? Because you're like, that you're not giving me actually what you did?

You're brushing over things. Yeah. And he said his response was, she couldn't, I don't think she could see me. And when I walked up, she was holding onto the wall or something. She must have been drunk. Oh, yeah, that's totally what? Yeah, remember. Todd Kilburn was with her all the night. And I said she was completely fine. She was not impaired.

And she hadn't even had a drink in like an hour, at least an hour. Right. Now he says she must have been drunk, I think. I don't know. She was staggering. I also just love the people here. I just did this to some drunk girl. Yeah. It's her fault for being drunk. Oh, don't worry. He to some drunk girl. Like, it's her fault for being drunk.

Oh, don't worry. He's not the only one who claims it's her fault. Are you fucking kidding me? You better believe it. Now, and again, remember, Todd Kilburn said, she was not staggering. She was on her feet. She was completely fine.

And I never would have let her walk by herself if she was. He said she wasn't slurring even in the slightest. And now he's gonna sit here and say she was staggering. And he said, and I just pushed her into the wall and write, right into the wall hard with her face. So now we're getting closer because they're kind of pulling out of him like, okay, so you did hit her face against the wall, but he's like, ah, you know,

like once hard. Right. No, that's not it. And he then reiterated that he pushed her only once and that he tried but failed to rape her. Then it gets worse. He said that he had not kicked or hit her at all. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Not once. Also, you just fucking said two minutes ago that you did. So then he said all of a sudden, she was just bleeding from her face. That happens. Yeah, spontaneously. Yeah. And he actually said, quote, I just looked at her and I said,

I know I didn't do that. I just know that I did not beat that girl that way. Oh, I know, because you're such a good person. And then he says, she had already been hit repeatedly before I'd seen her there. Yes, I tried to take advantage of her, but somebody started to do the same thing before I did and I just got caught.

So now he's only made someone had already beaten and raped Katie when he got there, and now he's, I don't know in what world he thinks that this makes him any better, that he came upon her like a second, and he decided to do it again. And also what pointed that happened while you were following her, you fucking idiot, you just told us you were following her from when it again. And also, what pointed that happened while you were following her, you fucking idiot. You just told us you were following her from when Todd left. And she didn't look like that before, but now all of a sudden you're changing your story.

He's also, I feel like trying to make it seem like he came to and realized, oh, I couldn't have done this. I couldn't have done that. I could have done that. I wonder if that was like partially going for some kind of insanity. Oh yeah, I'm sure. And that's because they definitely try to get that.

It fails miserably because he is not clearly. He's very much knows what he's doing. He's just a violent motherfucker. And I mean, the timing with Todd Kilburn was able to provide the timing of when they got up to that gate. And there was other people around that said they saw them at the gate. Yeah. The time is right for him to hurt leave, walk to that walk arena with barely any time.

And then just by the time the guards heard the noise and the ruckus and came out, there was barely any time. There was no time for one other person to have done this to her. It's just not true. And I'm sorry, but in what fucking world does that happen? Like, oh, somebody gets attacked twice. So this campus is now just like the worst place you could ever be on planet Earth.

Because this girl got attacked twice in the manner of minutes. Just walking onto campus. Like, what? No. So then he started talking about Todd Kilburn. I knew that was gonna come. I knew he was gonna do that too.

And by the way, Todd Kilburn came in and gave his story to police. Like, he was like, here's exactly what happened. Exactly. No, obviously he didn't name Todd because he didn't know who he was. But he started describing him and saying that when they had left each other at the gate, remember, his last statement a minute ago was that when they, he heard them say their goodbyes at the gate, very happy, very friendly goodbye.

Now he's saying that he was screaming at her angrily and they left on angry terms and he yelled something at her as she left. What? He specifically even used the term before that they said something like see a later. Like used that specifically. Like could that have been what he yelled at her?

See you later. Like good try shithead. Like you're really gonna change your story in the middle of the story, like you forget, you keep, he's lying so much that he can't even remember what he lied about. That's the problem. He's making this up as he goes.

That is so scary that like within a minute's time, he's like, oh yeah, she left him was happy, like he was happy and they said see you later. And then in like a matter of seconds, he goes into, oh no, they were yelling at each other. Oh no, they were screaming at each other. Yeah. And they brought that up.

They were like, well, you just said that they were fine when they left. And he was like, no, I didn't say that. And then he goes, the guy was mad. I didn't say that he was a mad. Do you think it's like a game that, like, like, what? No, I think it's specifically what is happening here is you can hear it while he talks

because he, he like, stammer's to say something. He'll kind of like double talk just to get through a sentence and it's like, he's just making this up on the spot and he's a bad improv artist. He's not good at this. And he just can't even work out what he's said. I mean, like, and I went to that place and there was a tree and I saw the tree.

Like he's just making it up as he goes along and I don't know. And then it's just like he contradicts himself because he doesn't take into account what he just said. It's just so wild to me that people's brains work that way. It's, he's evil. So they let this go because once again, Brian McCarthy is incriminating himself.

So they're like, let's just let him keep fucking this up So they kept asking about the attack hoping he was gonna keep failing at this whole thing like yard he was And when asked again how many times he shoved Katie's face into the wall because he kept saying once He said quote, well once real hard that I meant to and the other time I didn't I didn't mean to do it I was just I was trying to get her out of the corner, trying to sit her up or help her or whatever. And I dropped her. How dare he sit there and say that he was trying to help her?

Yeah, and he says and I dropped her. And her face and her head hit the wall real hard, real hard. Trying to help her. And the worst part of this is that you know he's sitting there reliving this. And like somehow gets enjoyment out of it. And he's sitting there claiming to be this hero that he's a victim as well because he got attacked and he was just trying to help her. Right. And then somehow it hit her head against the wall. He then said he quote, so after this,

he was like, I definitely kicked her once. But I thought you literally just said that you never kicked her. Oh, dude. And then he said he did kick her, but it was an accident. How do you kick somebody by accident? Exactly. That's toddler shit. Right. That's a toddler response.

Very, like, so. Did you just kick your sister? It was an accident. That doesn't exist. Like, maybe it's like swinging your legs, dude. Yeah. But not when you're attacking somebody. You don't kick them by accident. And he said, quote, I was trying to get her out of the corner, trying to set her up

or help her or whatever, and I dropped her. And he just said, that's what happened. And then he admitted to removing her clothing accidentally, I'm sure. And he said, quote, had all his weight behind him when he ran up on her and shoved her face into that wall. Oh God. They kept pressing and he said he never punched her, hit her with his hand, but then immediately followed that up with, I hit her in the midsection and her, she kind of snapped her neck, you know, her neck went back like that when she hit the wall. So you didn't hit her

with your hand, but you hit her with your hand. And then that happened like, like get it straight, dude. What? He also had a swollen hand. His right hand was swollen. And he was trying to hide. It was all beat up. Yeah. Then he said something that chilled every drop of blood in my body. Oh, God. Man are trying to get him to admit to kicking her intentionally and several times because it was clear he had. And he said, quote, no I didn't, but I was I was rolling her and pushing her and just I was really, really mad. I was like picking her up and throwing her and I was just using every bit every bit of my strength and my body to move that girl just

just shake her insides out. Oh my God. Literally said shake her insides out. Oh my god. Literally said shake her insides out. And you don't need, he doesn't even know this girl's name. And, oh, and it gets so much worse with that kind of stuff with him. He doesn't give a shit. No, obviously not. He has no regard. You know that some of those like horrific monster murderers that will know the names of their victims and will like say them in interviews and stuff. And you're like like don't say their name. He's even worse. He doesn't have it. We'll get to it. Oh no. Oh no. So he said he hit he hit under the stairs because he had just you know

Rape to girl and he basically said that he was like I just raped a girl So I had to sit on the stand so they were like what and he goes I just tried to rape a girl Wow, and they were like honey like? And he goes, I just tried to rape a girl. Wow. And they were like, honey, like you're giving us everything we need. Right. And he ended up, so he ended up in the interview saying he was not the only one who did this to her,

someone had already done it before he got there. So at this point, he's like, does it matter that I did it because someone else did it. And then he started, we found out that Todd Kilburn was wearing a black jacket. So when he saw Todd Kilburn and her, that's where I came from, that he used to that to be like, this could do it. That'll know. Yeah. So this fuck then asked, after all of this, how is she doing? I would have gouged his eyeballs. I literally would have been like, you don't get to know.

I feel like you're gonna be do wonder. It's just a wonder. It's just a wonder. What's gonna happen to you? Are you gonna get charged for rape? Or are you gonna get charged for murder? And spend the rest of your life in prison like you deserve to either way.

You sit there and fucking wonder. Well, then, what's even worse is he said, will you update me on her condition? No. Oh, so you can, like he knew he was gonna be facing a murder. That's exactly what it was. He didn't give a shit about her condition. He just wanted to know what charges were coming from.

I would have made him wonder for weeks. I would have literally been like, I guess you'll never know. I don't know. Now, you'll find out it's sentencing, fuckface. Now, this is where like that Katie's family, just what a bunch of ballsy, like just I just want to like high five them all.

What they do. Because they just like didn't, they didn't retreat into a hole. After like when this happened, they were like, now we're gonna fuck shit up. Yeah. And Katie's older sister Betsy was home. She had lived in another state.

And she was home with Carrie and Joe Jr. because they were like teenagers at the time. Right. And she was like, I just couldn't sit any longer and just wonder what was going on. Because the parents were trying to keep them from seeing Kate. Of course.

And they're probably trying to figure out how we're gonna tell them all the details of this without traumatizing them. One year, do they need to know? Do we tell them much? Do they need to know what these are their children? Life just not prepare you to tell your children that their sibling has been brutally raped and murdered

and that the world is that evil. Yeah, nobody can ever prepare you for that conversation. There's no instruction manual for that. And I, it's like, I can't imagine what you're going through the grief of what's happening. Exactly. And you're just shattering every safety net you thought you had. Absolutely.

You're just like, unfortunately, you're actually never safe anywhere. Yeah, it's like, the day your kids find that out is like, must be the worst time. Yeah, and to have to explain that. Yeah. And it's like, oh, now, she just up and drove to the campus to get some answers. Like, she just up and drove to the campus to get some answers.

Like she literally up and drove to Clarkson University because she was like, I am not gonna fuck around here. I need to know what's going on. This is my sister. So she literally went to Katie's apartment on campus. She interrogated her roommates like a true fucking sister would. Hell yeah. They told her the story that they were all at Bogey's

that evening, that they had left her, but she was with other friends Like they were like we didn't leave her alone She was with like Todd and everybody and they said one of them was Todd Kilburn and that he had apparently walked her home So Betsy went and tracked down Caught Todd Kilburn on campus at the flat house and questioned him She even went to the crime scene at the Walker Arena and investigated it herself. I can't imagine that.

To see her last steps to be like, what could have happened to you? Right. Like, who does that? Badest sister alert, like baddest in a good way. That's a, like, that's a sister on the planet. Now, August 31st at around 3 p.m. Terry and Jo, Jo senior were told, unfortunately, that Katie had suffered brain death and would not recover.

So now the next step was giving consent to the doctors to remove the ventilator, keeping her clinically alive. To, and like, everything these people have gone through in a matter of days, to sit there and like wonder whether or not she's gonna make it and come to terms with what happened to her either way.

That's the thing and it's like, now you have to make that decision. Like, nobody wants to ever, ever make that decision. I can't even. That is a seat you never want to be sitting in. Well, then before they could do that, there was legal stuff that dilated a bit, which hurts my head.

Because what a fucking decision you have to make, and then it's getting mucked up by legal shit. That's a sinkable. Because it has to do with with the murder charges, right? Exactly. Because technically if you make the decision to pull, yeah. I was gonna say the DA's office was making sure every eye was dotted, every T was crossed, before that ventilator was removed, so that McCarthy's fucking lawyers, like you were saying,

can't claim that she maybe would have lived if the doctors didn't pull the... Because you know that famous case, it's one of the first law and order episodes I ever watched, and it's the one where I think she may have been pregnant or they had a young child. I do know, I have to handle her. The husband killed her, but she like lived for a little bit. That whole thing came into play there. That's the same kind of thing, it's like, but it's like for that to have to be part

of that whole decision making process. And to have to sit there and think about that. The legal ramifications and that this guy, could he get off? Right. And if this is done the improper way. And to sit there and think that these lawyers would even make that fucking argument of like,

no, you killed her. Like that, well, and as we'll see, McCarthy's lawyer does try to pull that. And tries to say the doctors were the murderers. How do you, how? That's a, that's a, that's a tough one. I'm like, you, I would not put my head on the pillow at night. You go home at night and like,

that's an argument that you feel good about. I understand that. I was just kind of satironies and like, what a job. And I totally get that like, they have to do everything they can That's their job, but there's certain killer argument I'm like you really feel good about that one. No, I don't know what time you feel good about that There's certain lengths. I think you just don't go to yeah, and this is just my opinion like I am not a defense attorney So I don't know what it takes that's just one argument

I could never wrap my brain around no and I could never wrap my heart around. No. And I could never wrap my heart around. I wouldn't feel good going home being like, I guess we're gonna blame the doctors today. Right. Like, uh, I don't think so. And then the family gets looped into that because it's ultimately their decision. Exactly.

So now they're put on the hook. That's a very how dare you moment. How dare you indeed. So it wasn't until September 1st that she was officially taken off life support. Her entire family was around her when they did it all Everybody I'm glad that like they got to be there for that of course You know the thing with taking somebody off life support is a lot of people think you unplug everything and it's

And it's over it doesn't work. That's not how it works. Sometimes. That's how it works Sometimes it can take days. Yeah. And then their body still happens. Luckily, I guess I would say luckily just so they didn't have to endure a long drawn out process. She died in only 20 minutes. Which also should tell you how bad this was. How much of a body without that life support? How much of a body without that life support? Her body simply couldn't.

Yeah. Like that should tell you how much Brian McCarthy deserves to be in jail. And that should tell you that the doctors in this case have nothing to do with what his defense attorneys were trying to argue. Yeah. It's just, and apparently the morning that Katie's parents had to rush into the hospital after she was initially attacked,

a neighbor of Terries named Isabelle McConnell, who was a good friend of hers, had tried to comfort her by saying that Katie would be, she was like, you know what, Katie's gonna be all right, because that's just what you said. Of course. And Terry said she couldn't help. She was like, I know this sounds crazy, but I couldn't help but hold a grudge against her neighbor and her friend, because she said, after her death, she said, quote, I loved

her dearly, meaning her neighbor. And she said, I loved her dearly, and I never told her this. I never said a word to her that dammit she lied to me. She was my good friend and she lied to me. And that anger that Terry must have felt for Brian and the helplessness must have made it so impossible to reconcile those feelings because I get that. Absolutely. It's totally irrational. And she knows it. She's like, I know this is like, but I was mad, right? Like the world was telling me that like I should have my it. She's like, I know this is like, but I was mad. Right. Like the world was telling me that like,

I should have my daughter. There's worlds tells me that this should not happen and it happened. Yeah. There's just no rationale when it comes to somebody brutally murdering your child. And that should tell you like how it ruins the people that love them.

Yeah. That like, she's literally like, I couldn't help it. I was angry that someone had told me she was gonna be alright. I can guarantee you, I would have felt the exact same. I get it. It makes total sense. If you've recently bought like anything, you've probably noticed that prices have gone up on everything, especially on the essentials like gas, groceries, and utilities.

That is exactly why it's a great time to use GoodRx to at least save on your prescription costs. How you say, and I say, with GoodRx you can instantly compare prescription prices at pharmacies in your neighborhood, and you can find discounts that could save you up to 80%. 80%. GoodRx is free and it's super easy to use, and the coolest thing about it, in my opinion, is that it works whether you do or do not have insurance. Even if you have insurance, Guter X may actually beat your co-pay price.

You can check Guter X online or on their app, which just so happens to be one of the most downloaded medical apps. From there, you can find prescription savings that over 70,000 pharmacies nationwide, CVS, Walgreens, White, Rite Aid, Vaughan's Walmart, more. And then, take the money that you've saved with GoodRx and put it toward filling your tank, your shopping cart, or anything else that's gotten more expensive. I have personally saved money using GoodRx before, it's just really great to actually be able to compare the prices between different pharmacies, because then you can just go and have the cheapest option.

So for simple smart savings on your prescriptions, check GoodRx. Go to GutrX.com slash morbid. That is GutrX.com slash morbid. GoodRx.com slash morbid. GutrX is not insurance but can be used in place of insurance, Medicare and Medicaid. In 2021, GutrX users saved 81% on retail prescription prices. Now, Brian McCarthy was immediately charged with second degree murder. Now, I learned this from William Leroux in a stranger, Kil'Katey.

Apparently, at this time in New York, you could only be charged with first degree murder if the victim was a cop or a prison guard. What? Yeah, it was like a weird, like a weird, yeah. This was in the 80s, remember. So this was a while ago. Weird shit. True shit on the books.

Isn't it wild that that's like, what, 40 years ago? I don't even know. You're asking me to do math right now? Yeah, it's 40. What kind of question is that? Math. Math. It's math. No. Subtraction. It's a question. Too much for me. What kind of question is that math? It's math. No.

Subtraction. Too much for me. Now, the autopsy for Katie was done by Jefferson County Assistant Medical Examiner, Joven, Joven G. Quon, excuse me, but medical examiner Virgilio A. Allen was supervising the whole thing. That's very common that that happens. Now, Quon noted that there were several external injuries to Katie's body. Gili O.A. Allen was supervising the whole thing. That's very common that that happens. Now, Kwan noted that there were several external

injuries to Katie's body. There were severe and extensive bruising to her face, head, neck, and shoulders. And she had two black eyes and her nose and mouth were swollen. Now, she had a ton of defensive wounds, also, like a very much shoes fighting back. Yeah. And one of these was a compound fracture

to her right index finger. Oh, yeah, my gosh. So this tells you how brutal this was and how much she was fighting against him. Now her cause of death was listed as asphyxia due to manual strangulation. Oh, yes. Isn't that a shocker?

Brian McCarthy lied a lot. Yeah. Can you never said anything about strangling her? Katie had a fractured hyoid bone, which you may know is the telltale sign that someone has been strangled. The bone bends. So if pressure is placed on one side of the neck, it will bend the other way. Right. And if the fractured bone tells a pathologist that pressure has been placed severely on two both sides of the neck to break that bone. Like he can't claim like I kicked her or something because it will just bend. Right. Now another way to be able to tell she was strangled was her brain. She had a bruise on her left frontal lobe and her brain was in a state of neuronal necrosis.

This is basically that the neurons had died specifically due to lack of oxygen. How does this happen? Strangling someone and then depriving their brain of oxygen for an extended period of time. Here is the kicker. And it's something Ash had postured in part one, actually. Would it have saved Katie for those guards to just come to her aid while the attack was happening? They couldn't say for sure. But if she wasn't strangled already when they first saw her, then she was not

dead and she didn't have fatal injuries yet because they said all those external injuries while brutal and inter-rubble, probably wouldn't have killed her. Those were the only injuries she sustained. They said although it was severe and brutal, she would have been alive, had they seen her. So, just on its own, it's hard to say. This is really one of those things where it's like you can look at it from a couple of different angles.

Well, and it's so hard because I think it comes down to such an exact timing of when they would have had to see her. Excuse me. That you really can't say either way. But then if we look back on some of his interrogation, I urge you to read the book because it has a lot of the interrogation in there, like the quotes, he says a lot of times that she was mumbling a lot. So he he mentions because the last girl, the last Kim was she conscious, was she unconscious when you were doing this that she was conscious. He says most of the time and she was mumbling or making sounds to me. That sounds like

alive. That sounds like you hadn't strangled her yet. Right. So if the guards came upon this, she was technically still alive, and if they had intervened, they could have possibly stopped it. Of course, there's that double-edged sword of like, we don't know, and also like, there's a lot of factors there that like, was it negligent?

Yeah. Yeah. It just was. But it like, it's negligent. But it like, it's negligent. But it like, it's negligent. just was. But it like negligent. So many other parts that just those officers who work even officers, they were guards. Exactly. It was negligent in about 15 different levels to that point. Yeah. It's really truly is just negligent all around. So yeah, it's impossible to tell really, but there's a possibility, which is devastating. Now of course, once Katie had passed away and it was murder, the media went nuts and

they started the blame game as they often do. Everyone but Brian was to blame, apparently. They went after the university in the papers, the security guards, they were like, and they weren't the ones like none of the media that I could find was blaming Katie for it, but they were blaming everyone else and I was like, can we maybe talk about the guy who did it with his hands? Yeah, like maybe do that, but Joe Sr. did release. Once it started going crazy and people were like throwing accusations out there, Joe soon seen your Katie's father release a statement that read, I've seen the newspapers

today and I've talked to the Potsdam police from the very first. I, her mother and her whole family in no way feel that there is any fault on the part of Clarkson University or the village of Potsdam. Okay. That changes when more information comes out. They were not at this point. They were not aware of the fact that two security guards had witnessed the attack

and had not stopped or stopped to investigate it. So they did not have that information when they said that. So obviously that changes. Because obviously we're seeing a lot of negligence at that part on the university's part and the guards part. So it's like at that point it is going to change. Apparently the president, Alan Clark, the president at the time, and some of the other officials from Clark's and university

had come to the hospital on a few occasions to comfort the family, talk with them throughout the ordeal before Katie was taken off of life support. So they were feeling very like comforted by them and that they actually gave a shit. Unfortunately, to me, yeah, feels like they were trying to avoid that so velocity that was going to be coming through once the real shit came out. Thanks, because I didn't want to be the one to say it. And I was kind of looking at you trying to get the eyes of if I could say that or not. It's that's

just that's what it looks to me. Yeah. When you come through all this stuff, it certainly looks like that was the case. I'm sure they cared their human beings. Yeah. But I think there was a little more like all the information wasn't out yet.

And they probably knew in the back of their heads when it did come out, what had actually happened that night, that they weren't gonna look great. Yeah, I'm sure that there were people who went out of the kindness and goodness of their heart. And I'm sure there were people who went because they needed to say face. Exactly. Now, they were all just trying to, the family at this point is just trying to

get through the day to day, to be their best to make sure Katie's life was honored and justice was served for her killer. And they all did this in very different ways. Because you have to return to life and jobs in some sense of normalcy. But how? How do you do that when your child or sister has been brutally raped and murdered? I have absolutely no idea. Joe Jr., her brother was quoted in the book as saying,

quote, in retrospect, it seems we all kind of retreated to our corners for a bit. I don't remember feeling alienated from my parents, but I remember there was my grief that I had to deal with first. Well, that's the thing because everybody processed as grief so differently. Yeah, I think everybody was like,

woo, I think that. You gotta take a second. I think it's comfy to me. Yeah, it happens a lot. I'm sure in families, especially bigger families, because like I just said, everybody's so different, you need a second. And I'm sure it's probably hard to be together

without Katie. It's like, you could feel like all of the absence. That's what it is. It's like when you're together, it must be amplified times a billion because there's someone missing. But when you're just like alone, maybe you can distract yourself or go about what you need to go about.

Now her friends were also having to deal with this sudden loss. And remember, she has a ton of friends who loved her. And she had like one roommate that she was super close to her. Yeah, Nancy. And they were teenagers too. They were teenagers. I can't imagine being 19 years old and having this happen. No, you would never expect to lose your friend at that age, and especially in such a horrific way. In like college, it's like you're invincible. Yeah, of course. And she had a lifelong friend, Katie had a lifelong friend named Jim Domiano. They were like since kids best friends. They

were as close as siblings. They had like a very sweet close friendship. Yeah. Really sweet. He wrote an article in the Syracuse Harold Journal and he said quote, quote, I've lost more than a best friend. I lost a part of myself. To all of Katie's friends, there's a little bit of Katie left in all of us. Let's follow her example and enjoy our lives and live them to the fullest. To Katie's family, be thankful to a bee. Be thankful to have been blessed with such a fine person

for 19 years. She loved you all very, very much. I know she is in a much better place than here and she deserves it. That's beautiful. And it's like, these are the, like, her friends were like, you don't understand who she was. And that's how much it was.

And that's how much it truly was. And that's how much it truly was. And that's how much it truly was. And that's how much it truly was. And that's how much it truly was. And that's how much it truly was. And that's how much it truly was. And that's how much it truly was.

And that's how much it truly was. And that's how much it truly was. And that's how much it truly was. And that's how much it truly was. And that's how much it truly was. And that's how much it truly was. And that's how much it truly was. And that's how much it truly was. And that's how much it truly was. And that's how much it truly was. And that's how much it truly was. in the night of the rape and murder. Now all the stories are coming out about where he was, what he was doing. The stories about him getting into the fist fight

earlier that night at the chateau and shooting someone in the leg claiming he shot somebody in the leg. And there was somebody who said he stole three dollars. That came out. Yes. The hitchhiking shenanigans came out and then a super bizarre story came out.

So it's insane. So apparently after Robert Warren Jr., the guy who picked him up as the hitchhiker, after he dropped him off in Potstam and quickly hauled ass to the police station to talk about what a scary dude he was, Brian was already deeply entrenched after he got dropped off in another weird ass moment in Potstam. So a student from Potstam state named Thomas D. Rupert had come forward with a story from that night. He said he and another student were walking around hanging at a bar, they were hanging at a bar for a bit and then they walked out. It was a bit after midnight they were walking through a parking lot on Main Street in Plottstam when a man

just started yelling at them and they said he had dark hair, scruffy beard, Brian McCarthy. Yeah, he started yelling at them and he was like saying shit to them. They they said he had dark hair, scruffy beard, Brian McCarthy. Yeah. He started yelling at them. And he was like saying shit to them. They really couldn't understand. But he was like being a dick. Yeah. So they yelled back at him, shut up and then just followed and then just like walked iconic. He followed them, of course. They said when he came up to them, he said he was a police officer. And they were like, yeah, no. So they were like, which I love this. They were like, okay, like you're a fucking wreck like you don't look like a police officer Like you can't even manage a bath my son

But they were like you like never mind a whole last career. What are you? Is that are you so how you like school people? Yeah, my size on sit down so they said show me your badge then right and he wouldn't so he then told them if they moved a Muscle he was gonna blow them away with his gun And he put his hand behind his back like he had one So they kind of taunted him a bit, which I don't recommend doing. No, and we're like, oh, you have a gun, huh? Like don't do that because you don't know And he was like, I do shut up, but then he admitted that he was lying Okay, so like what and then he told them he was Brian McCarthy. Literally told them his name.

He showed them his license to prove it. And he said he was working with three state troopers that evening. These state troopers were legit in the fucking trees at the moment with sniper rifles pointed at the students. And that what? He had been paid $250 to watch those students. No. And they literally were just like, no, that's not true.

Like that is not a test story. An incorrect key. And he was like, okay, fine, I'm lying, but do you like, I feel bad now. Do you want me to like buy you a beer? Or do you want to like smoke some of my weed with me? I don't want to smoke anything that's in your pipe. And they were like, no, sir.

No. And then one of them, I guess, was like, you can buy us a beer at the bar, though, which I'd be like, you know, that's a college student shit. That is. Because I'd be like, no, like I would like, I'd be like, you can disappear from my life forever, thanks. Like that can be your repayment. And in college, if somebody offers to buy you beer, it's always a hell yeah. And they were like, hell yeah. So actually, if like he's just buying it, and like, it's not handing you like that's a beer. So they had they were like hell yeah. So actually if like he's just buying it and like he's not or. And you like that's a beer.

So they had a beer together and that was it. He just left. I just love that he was like here's my license and my full last name and all of my information. And he did that because he was trying to do the like, I'm in the police. Of course. With the police.

So like here's my license. I'm not lying. You can trust me. And why would you not think? Why? That like they're gonna go to the police and say like, hey, is Brian McCarthy working with you? and then the police are gonna say nah and it sounds like he was definitely on stuff Or very drunk or something was doing it doesn't sound like he's just smoking weed no and that's the thing

They were never able to like really nail it down But then he's definitely a drug abuser and he's a known like alcohol abuser, so right and So at this point like so that story came out and everyone's like, what the fuck? What the fuck is this guy? At this point, because Katie has passed away, it's now a new charge of murder being added, which makes for a longer process sometimes. So on September 5th, they held the preliminary hearing

for Brian McCarthy. This hearing was to determine if Brian McCarthy should be held in jail while a grand jury would be meeting to indict him on the murder charge. It's like such a process. It really is. So, Avediki and Shandhi had to take the stand again and tell their stories. They both said it was definitely Brian McCarthy who they saw on top of Katie that night. They were positive.

And Lieutenant McHendry, who was in the room when Brian confessed, was stopped short on the stand by Brian's lawyer, Charles Nash. He asked the judge, Justice Rogers, to officially close the hearing to the media at this point. Because he said there was always a chance the confession will be deemed inadmissible, which it happens. At some later point, and if that was going to happen in this case, which he was going to try for, they didn't want the media to already have published portions of it. Okay. Because at that point, no jury would be able to be untainted. Exactly. Exactly. The judge agreed. So she also ordered that he had to have a psychological evaluation done. She eventually ruled that he would absolutely have

to stay locked up until that grand jury meeting, which is thank goodness. He was evaluated. They found that he had a very high IQ, but that he had no, like he was not in the same. It's also so annoying when like they, you're like, why can't you just do something good with your smarts? Like why are you running around like a costing people and attacking women at night? And you're just wailing it. Like you're a waste. Yeah. But throughout this, and this happens often,

the family was feeling a bit left out of the loop. They weren't getting updates. They were not feeling that they had power and making sure their daughter or sister's rapist and murder would be in bars behind bars for good. Yeah. And they were looking to make sure justice was served for Katie, but also for anyone else who went through something like this in the future. They were looking at,

they were like, we want to make sure that no other family has to go through this. So they wanted to know their rights and they wanted to know how they could be more involved, if they could be more involved and just more informed. So Terry, Katie's mom ended up hiring Joseph Fahey, an attorney Christopher Wiles to aid her in this. Fahy was a public defender and a defense attorney, and also she was a known expert when it comes to all things about the insanity defense. Okay. So this was an opportunity for Terry, Katie's mom to ask if there was a possibility that he would try to use that defense, and if they had a shot at making it work. So, Fay, he went to Potsdam and he talked to Officer Peretta

about Katie in the case. They were able to read through the case file and see all the reports because Peretta left the huge file on the table when he left the room. Whoopsie. And to them, they were like, it felt like he left it to be like, you can't read through this. And then he just left like,

like do what you will. They said they immediately could see that he was not insane or impaired that way because he had made great efforts to lie about his crime right after committing it, like immediately upon committing it and then also after that. Yeah.

They also came to the conclusion and told Terry that she and Jo's senior should consider suing McCarthy for wrongful death and suing the university itself for the security guards negligence. Yeah. They basically wanted them to do this because there was a chance just the threat alone with force clerks and to think about their security lapses and make changes that could help future students. They weren't even concerned with the financial shit.

They were like, we just want them to make changes and if this is what it takes. We don't want this to happen then. Which, that's amazing that they had the wear with all to do that. Now, Clarkson University, meanwhile, was claiming that they would do all they could to keep students safe.

But the president, Alan Clark, was also claiming that it was a safe campus and that this was an anomaly. After another student was raped at a huge Toga party in the dorms on campus, they finally decided they should put more lights outside and actually add a connection between the two way radios. They gave the night watchman so that the police outside could actually be connected and they wouldn't have

to go searching for a phone and an emergency. Why would you not have that on a college campus? Yeah, they didn't have that. That's unreal to me. The community was upset in one of the university to do more and take this issue more seriously. Yeah. So Clarkson ended up setting up two public forums,

and one of them was in Syracuse, and they let people talk, they talked about what they wanted to do. They invited Terry to the one in Syracuse, and she went with her attorney Christopher Wiles. And at this forum, Clark once again said Clarkson was safe, and then basically said that the attack on Katie was only because she had put herself in a bad position by walking alone at 3.30 a.m.

Literally get absolutely wrecked. Get so fucked, Clarkson University at this time. Go fuck yourself sideways at that time. Are you kidding me? Yeah. I truly, truly, truly cannot. We're gonna blame a young woman who is dead, who has died.

And it's her fault for what? Why can't I walk at 3 a.m.? Well, that's the thing. It's like, okay, but maybe should we say that like people shouldn't murder people at any time during the day? Right, maybe we can say that. Like, I'm sorry, do we hit a time during the night

where it's like, well, you know, people are just allowed to murder. So it's your fault for being out there. Because that's the thing. I thought we had a law that no one can murder people. And that's exactly it. We do. Like, just in case anybody's forgot.

This is a bad thing. Yeah, but they talk about this girl walking at 3 a.m. like that's the crime that unfolded here. Yeah. She put herself in a bad position. Yeah, I'm sure she was also wearing revealing clothing too. They should have just added that in there for good effect. Yeah.

Well, he already tried to do the whole, she was drunk. Like that's her fault. No, you're. No, this go to show anybody listening? Like how fucking long this shit has been happening? Yeah, and it's like Brian McCarthy is an evil monster of a human being who has shown for years that he is an evil monster of a human being.

Continues now to show he is an evil monster of a human being. Let's just blame him. Yeah, let's not blame Katie for walking home. Yeah, just literally walking home. And for being considerate enough to not want her friend to have to walk out of his way to walk her home. How do those words come out of your mouth as an individual?

Well, she shouldn't have been, this girl who has died shouldn't have been walking home. In what world do you think that's going to go over well? Like what? And that makes any sense. You know how there's that? On any galaxy. That whole thing called like a filter,

like it happens in your brain first and then it's gonna come out of your mouth. That should have stayed in the drafts, my dude. You would think, wow. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. People do not always realize that physical symptoms, like headaches, teeth grinding, This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. People do not always realize that physical symptoms, like headaches, teeth grinding, even

digestive issues, can be indicators of stress. And let's not forget about doom scrolling, sleeping too little, sleeping too much, underreading, overeating. Stress is a lot, it's a lot to handle, and a lot of times I get stress breakouts, I lose sleep, I will stay up all night, I will binge eat. It's like stress just, it really shows up and it shows up in all kinds of ways. And in a world that's telling you to do more sleep less, grind all the time, here's your reminder to take care of yourself, do less and maybe try some therapy. I think it's

just so helpful to have one hour, one designated hour, a week, or every other week, where you can just go to somebody who doesn't have a horse in the race, and talk to them about your problems, I think it's going to make you feel a lot better. And BetterHelp is customized online therapy that offers video phone and even live chat sessions with your therapist, so you don't have to see anybody on camera if you don't want to. It's much more affordable than in-person therapy, so give it a try and see if online therapy can help lower your stress. Morbid listeners get 10% off at their first month at BetterHelp.com slash morbid.

That's BETTERHELP.COM slash morbid. It's funny. There are all these gimmicks that promise a great night's sleep. I do not care what kind of toppers there are or how heavy a blanket is, it is lipstick on a pig. If you're sleeping on a terrible mattress, your sleep is going to be terrible. It's really simple, guys. That's exactly why I personally recommend sleeping on a purple mattress. That's because only purple mattresses have the gel flex grid. It's a super stretchy, ultra squishy material that adapts and flexes

around pressure points and it doesn't retain heat. The gel flex grid is amazingly supportive for your back and legs while also cushioning your shoulders, neck and hips, no matter how you sleep. Unlike memory foam, which remembers literally everything, the good, the bad and the ugly. Thanks to the gel flex grid, purple mattresses bounce back as you move and shift. You will never have a like, I'm stuck feeling that you get with memory foam where you're just like sinking into a little divot. I am obsessed with purple mattresses. I would wear purple clothing if I could, with the gel flex grid all intertwined up in it,

because I have a purple mattress and a purple pillow, and both of those things cradle me like I'm a sweet little and a purple pillow, and both of those things cradle me like I'm a sweet little baby going to sleep at night. Ever since I started sleeping on my purple mattress, I have literally never slept better. Like it is truly something. Try your purple mattress, risk-free with shipping and returns.

Financing is available too. Getting a great night's sleep starts with having a great mattress. Get a purple mattress. Go to purple.com slash morbid 10 and use code morbid 10. For a limited time, you can get 10% off any order of $200 or more. That's purple.com slash morbid 10, code morbid 10 for 10% off any order of $200 or more. Purple.com slash morbid 10, promo code morbid 10 terms apply. Now after this unconscionable showing by the university officials, Blooming Katie for her own rape and murder, I can't even imagine what her mom wanted to do to these people.

Terry heard this and was like, okay. And she immediately was like, okay, let's start that civil suit against the university. Go. Let's get one against Brian McCarthy. And let's get one against those two security guards for negligence Yeah, like you want to say some shit. I'll rock you want to play for the university suit They put in there that they had knowingly hired to inexperience guards not even security guards And then didn't give them proper training and that they knew students were using that shortcut that was not properly lit

And there was no security there. Yeah. And the response by their insurance company, the Clarkson University Insurance Company, and the defense team, that Katie's injuries and death were caused by Brian McCarthy and Katie herself, because she engaged in culpable conduct. What? They literally blamed her.

What? What the fuck is wrong with everybody? It gets worse. How? They then said that they shouldn't have to pay for pain and suffering because Katie was not conscious during most of the attack. So they were trying to say- What about what she before that happened?

They were trying to say that because she went unconscious for part of this attack, that she didn't suffer any pain and suffering. Oh, I'm sorry. Were you there? Do you know at which point she became unconscious? Are you kidding? No. That is that of our dare you. How do you put your fucking head on the pillow at night?

That's some evil, evil shit. That seat, and to me that says, you don't have a mom, you don't have a sister, you don't have a daughter. Yeah, like, so who are you? What are, like, you don't have anyone you love. Are you can't like, you have anyone that you love in your life? Like you can't. I think you just have no empathy and compassion. And I just think of like, oh, I'm just like

knowing someone that that's their job and they do that. I'm like, oh, do you imagine like it's not like it's like married to somebody that know I would be like, well, I'd be like, I can't get down with this. That, like, we are two different people. That's the Parks and Rec, Straight to Jail. Straight to Jail. Straight to Jail, like, God of Hair. Go straight to Jail. That's the kind of thinking

that's just like, so sideways, it's outrageous. How does your brain even concoct such a state? Yeah, I'm like, I'm so angry and just like fully in shock. Yeah. Now, during this, they also found out that President Alan Clark had also interviewed the two guards without anyone knowing and that there was tape recordings

and transcripts of this, but the university was refusing to give them to the fore. That's shady as well. And he had interviewed them shortly after. So to me, that seems like they're trying to cover it up because they probably got some information during those, they probably answered truthfully. Yeah.

And it probably doesn't paint everybody in a great light, so they don't want them to know. Like on the agenda that day was also assigning people probably to go to the hospital. And later they were able to get these transcripts and the tapes and we were right. And they were right that it does prove that there was a lot of negligence here and that the university was trying very hard to pretend that there was a lot of extra lighting in that area that they kept trying to make them say in the tapes like, well, it was very well lit, right? Why can't you just say that you're wrong

and then do better? And then just fix it. That's the thing, like nobody is, everyone is just looking for you to do to make it right. That's the thing. And to go against it so hard and like blame everybody else. Yeah, they dug their own. That's the thing, like, fuck you. Yeah, it's really crazy.

So Brian McCarthy was indicted on three murder counts, and he pled not guilty. There were three because they were not able to definitively determine specifics about the rape. So there was a charge for murder. There was a charge that he strangled her while raping her. And then there was a charge saying he strangled her while attempting to rape her. The sentence for any of these, anyone that he got was 25 years to life.

Now his defense attorney, Charles Nash, filed an order for the prosecution to turn over evidence, any evidence that Katie had had consensual sex in the 48 hours prior to her rape and murder. Why does that matter? Luckily, there's things that can stop that from happening today. Why back then? Why back then? Why back then? Then, so that's the thing.

He's literally being like, well, I want to know, like, was she having sex any time in the last 48 hours? First of all, it's for none of your fucking business. Was your client? And it has nothing to do with it. Were you? Yeah. Who gives a fuck?

Security guards saw her being raped. We don't need it. People saw her. Literally. What do we, we're not, what would that, what would that make that anything? Like it happened. They're just trying to make it seem like she's promiscuous or something.

Of course. Which was, oh, it's just so frustrating. Wow. Then Charles Nash said that there was a possibility that the doctors were the ones who killed Katie and not Brian McCarthy. That's pretty true. But remember, they'd already known he was going to pull that kind of absolute horseshit and they did this before removing her life support.

So he literally said, quote, disconnecting of the life support system may have been premature and due to gross negligence or intentional wrongdoing of the doctors. Let's talk about your wrongdoing. Wrongdoing. He's literally saying these doctors intentionally murdered her. I don't know how people in that courtroom sat there

and didn't say to this man, your wrongdoing is all happening right now. Now, let's even worse, during this whole thing, Nash and McCarthy were allowed to view graphic crime scene photos showing Katie and also a photo of her nude on an autopsy table. Why is it in the room to see that? What allowed to see these?

Why? I have no idea. That never should have been a way. I was gonna say, is that something that happens? Yeah. And honestly, her family didn't find this out until way later down the line, like when it was already done.

The way this family was mistreated. That must have, the extra trauma that that would add, so fucking irresponsible. How do you show him that? And how do you, like, the whole reason he's sitting here is because he raped and killed this girl. And give her a little fucking dignity, seriously. Like, are you kidding me?

Now luckily the judge denied the notion that doctors killed Katie and not Brian McCarthy. They were like, yeah, that's not gonna happen here. Bye. So there was a, and they, that whole, like, you need to tell me if she's been having sex with anyone 48 hours prior, that was allowed to happen back in these,

like it back then, like very often, it was allowed to happen is what I mean. And obviously, no, that was not the case in this case, but, well, now there was a suppression hearing on March 24th, 1987. This hearing was because McCarthy claimed he was forced into the confession, Now, there was a suppression hearing on March 24, 1987. This hearing was because McCarthy claimed he was forced into the confession, that he didn't fully understand his right to remain silent, and that officers denied him a phone

call and clothing and food. This is all bullshit, obviously, because he's been arrested a ton of times, and he knew his fucking Miranda, right? He's been read them about 30 times at this point. He also is just a piece of shit. And his lawyer was like, okay, well to get this confession suppressed, I can just prove that on the day Katie was raped and murdered, Brian McCarthy was using a shit ton of drugs and alcohol, and wouldn't have had the were with all to wave his right to remain silent because he was so fucked up. That's what his defense attorney was

going to go for. What a defense. So he got a ton of friends and witnesses from that day. Basically to put them on the stand and be like, this guy's a loser of the highest order. Like that was their defense. Like let's talk about what a fuck up he is. Wild. He had his friend Joe Lopez on the stand and he testified that he had spent most of the day

with Brian that day. And he said he saw Brian maybe have three beers all day. Okay, so that's like nothing. And evening. And he never saw him do drugs at all, literally none. And this guy was there for the bar incident where the guy claimed to Brian stole three bucks and all that. Still he claimed he's like, yeah, they got in a fight. Like they were like arguing with each other and we got kicked out of the bar, but he was like, he was not drunk. No. And then Robert Warren Jr. the hitchhiking guy, the guy who picked him up hitchhiking,

took the stand and claimed he thought Brian was maybe high, but not drunk. Okay. He was like, he smelled like alcohol. He was just a dirty fuck. And he was like, He was like, in a bar. Yeah, and he said like, he said he seemed basic.

Like, he seemed like he was just like, not with me. Right. He was very like, did it, did it. He seemed wired. Yeah, wired, exactly. But he was like, I couldn't put my finger on it. I wouldn't be able to tell you what it was. So District Attorney Charles Gardner thought a plea deal would be the right way

to get the conviction that they needed with all of this. He said the sentence was the same for any count he chose, any one of those that he gets. He's going to get 25s of life. Right. And this would avoid the possibility of an acquittal, because he was like, we don't want to even go there. Terry and Katie's family agreed, as long as he would get that sentence.

They were like, that needs to be what it is. Yeah. Now while all this is going on, they're trying to get that confession suppressed. They ended up not getting suppressed, obviously, because none of that. They were like, well, all of your witnesses just proved that he wasn't completely impaired. Yeah, exactly.

So that really backfired on them. That's kind of funny. And while all this is going on in May, President Clark was asked to resign by and did eventually. All of the board was like, you gotta get out of here. Because it was also that student that got raped at the Toga party, there were allegations of sexual misconduct with other officials

in Clarkson University against students. It was getting bad. Doesn't sound like it was a great place back then. Now this case was one big part of a few incidents, obviously, for Clark. So he had no choice. He had to resign, which is good. Now, meanwhile, the judge for the suppression trial obviously said all of that was bullshit. He was well aware of his rights.

He said he was going to keep that confession. He was like, you know what it is to waive your right to remain silent. Like, you're so good. And there was no evidence that he was forced into that confession. So, like I said, was forced into that confession. So it, like I said, was admissible. This was a huge win because now the confession could be used in that meant he had admitted to knowingly and willfully killing Katie.

He only could claim insanity or plead guilty and ride it out. Those are his only options at this point. And he couldn't do the insanity offense. It just wasn't going to happen for him. So now he just had to plead guilty. So eight days later, Brian McCarthy made the decision to plead guilty of murder in the second degree. And it would be a charge which said he committed murder during an attempted rape because he was still not going to admit that he raped Katie. That pisses me off. He wouldn't have to admit anything really because he wasn't

again, admitting to the rape. He was just saying it was not his intention to murder her. That was what this was all going to be. That's like really frustrating. Truly the most frustrating. Now he confessed for a second time for this, but it was bullshit. He now claimed he came upon Katie. He thought about raping her, but then decided he was instead going to help her because she was bleeding and undressed. So he's like, I came up to her. I was like, ooh, I think I'm gonna rape her.

And then I was like, no, I'm gonna help her. Yeah, because that happens. It's like a devil and an angel sitting on my shoulder in the morning. Yeah, the man. He said, quote, so I tried to pick her up and put her over my shoulder. And I couldn't stand up that well.

It seemed like she was fighting me. She didn't want any help. So any person's natural reaction when someone rejects your help is to say, the hell with them. And that's what I said, and I threw her. Yeah, that's a natural reaction. That's not everyone's natural reaction, my dude. Yeah, I'm not at all. You are showing you right now. Like that is not anyone's natural reaction. I see your true color shining through.

And when they said you threw her against the wall, he said not with the intention of throwing her into the wall. Wow, you're throwing either way, you're throwing a human. And then he said he couldn't say whether her face or head hit the wall now. I can tell you.

Well, the medical examiner can say, he can tell you. The issue with this, because he's doing this in front of a judge. The judge has to sit there, listen to him say this and has to say, okay, this guy understands what he's pleading to. He's admitting to the thing that he is pleading guilty to. Yeah, it has to be all that. He's not admitting it. Right. So he's standing in front of this judge being like,

oh, I don't know. So that's the issue. He's not admitting anything but he's pleading guilty. And the judge would have to reject this plea. Oh, shit. So it took several times, like the judge was literally like, can't say I'm not gonna be able to accept this. Like you have to admit what you did.

So it took several times and a recess. And was the family there? I think they were there for part of this. Oh. And it took also a recess. They took a recess because they were like, he's not admitting it. And even his defense attorney was like,

dude, you have to fucking say you did it or we're not going to get this plea deal. Right. But he was like, I'm not doing it. Good, but you're not pleading guilty. Like you idiot. So they took a recess. They finally got him to somewhat admit

that he tried to rape and did murder Katie, but barely. He's a dickhead. Now luckily it did work, the judge accepted it. And sentencing was set for September 11th, 1987. So Fahee, the attorney, that attorney, the attorney, Terry and the family he was working with, he put in a petition with the judge to allow the families to speak during the sentencing. Like victim impact statements. Victim impact statements. It was rejected. The judge rejected that?

Yes. Why? So, Fahy, because I guess he rejected it initially on the grounds that he was like, I don't want any outbursts in my courtroom, I don't want any like this and that and all that. And so, Faye, he tried again. He was like, they're not going to have outbursts. They just want to say their feelings and like talk about Katie. Because they lost their love. Because like they love her. Why don't you put yourself in the shoes and see if you would like to say something.

So Faye, he tried again and wrote the actual statements down for the judge from the family, like they all wrote them down. So, he could see that it wasn't about them wanting to cause a huge scene and scream at the defendant and court, they just want to be heard. Literally, just wanted to make sure that the sentence was severe enough

for the crime against their daughter and friend. And he, so this is what the judge, or excuse me, this is what Faye he said. He said, in considering the validity of this claim, I would point out to your honor that from the moment of apprehension at the scene, Mr. McCarthy had sufficient presence of mind to formulate a false, exculpatory version of his involvement

in an effort to try to throw off suspicion from himself for the attack. He initially attempted to claim that he happened upon Katie being attacked and was himself a victim of an attack. And he was sufficiently convincing so that the Potsdam police transported him to the Canton Potsdam hospital where he was found to be completely uninsured and released. So he's like, he convinced the police that he wasn't fucking right. He then modified this version during the early morning hours of August 29th to claim that

Katie had already been beaten and stripped of her clothing at the time he encountered her physical injuries. He has persisted in maintaining this obvious fiction throughout his plea of guilty on August 13th, 1987, before your honor. Katie will never know what it is to be middle-aged. She will never experience the happiness of marriage. She will never know the joy of having children. She will never enjoy the pride and satisfaction of career achievement. In short, one who has contributed nothing to this world, callously and viciously took the life of one who contributed much and who is incapable of doing so much more. Which I was like, beautiful. The end of that was like, ooh, yeah. Ooh.

Because that's the thing, like, this is like, so- Somebody who has contributed nothing to this world. Right, nothing. Well, and he's speaking for the family, and it's like, let him say it. Why, I don't understand why you wouldn't. Like, I understand that you need to maintain

an orderly court, or because it's like, that's why you have a gavel, like, just bang it. Yeah, that's why you're the man in charge, right? Right. Take charge. They were denied again. That's fucked up. Even with that statement, that's why you have a gavel, like just bang it. Yeah, that's why you're the man in charge, right? Take charge. They were denied again even with that statement. That's really fucked up. Luckily when sentencing did happen,

the judge did talk about the impacts that Katie's rape and murder had on her entire family and how he had a history of violence and criminal behavior. That's wonderful, but it should be from that. That's the thing, it's like I didn't experience this. It's cool that he brought that into it and was making sure that that was known

because it's what her family wanted to be known, but like what their words speak for them. Even can't you read their statements? Right. Just read their statements. Let them write it down so that it's in their words. That's all. Or just let them fucking talk.

But he then asked, he did say that they had, and he said the family has asked for the maximum sentence. Okay. And according to a stranger killed Katie also, a priest in the community wrote in and requested leniency leniency for him and I was like, excuse me father, what? Like, in your place, please step aside. Stick to Sunday, step aside, sir. I was like, I like really annoyed me when I read that.

I was like, yeah, since when? No, leniency on this guy. No. Isn't this against everything in the entire world? As in it say thou shalt not murder. That's like, come on. That like really annoyed me. No.

Yeah, like you don't have a say in this. Piss me right off. Yeah. No, the judge then read a letter that McCarthy wrote. No, thank you. Oh, okay, that makes sense. I won't read it because it's a crock of bullshit and nothing he says matters.

So like, I don't give a shit. So I'm, I'm sorry, he did he read the family statements or no? No, he just basically gave his own statements about what the family had said. Like, he basically reiterated what they wanted. So he gave this motherfucker a voice instead of the family? Basically. So, he just, in this letter, he just winds and bitched about his rights being violated and that he was the victim here. It's weird. You violated somebody's rights to the point

where you literally took them out of this world. Yeah. Now, he also cited his religious beliefs and said that he would be forgiven by the Lord, so that's all that matter. No, I don't think the Lord forgives you for killing people. He also said that he would give his own life for Katie's resurrection, which I was like, so did anybody in that corumbia like, do it. Can we call your bluff on that right now? Go. One, two, three, go. You said it, right?

Just saying. Now of course, as attorney asked the court to be lenient as well, he wanted McCarthy to at the very least be able to try forient as well. He wanted McCarthy to, at the very least, be able to try for parole. No. The judge finally spoke and said, Mr. McCarthy, whatever is imposed will not and cannot make the whole the family and friends of Mrs. Hualca, or Mrs. Hualca, excuse me. That relief is beyond the scope of this life. You will, for however long you do live, have the burden of this incident forever with you, as will I'm sure anyone who has ever associated with Miss Hololka. It is the judgment of the court that you will be sentenced to an indeterminate sentence of imprisonment,

which shall have a maximum term of the remaining period of your natural life. And the court hereby imposes a minimum period of imprisonment of 23 years. So basically, he took two years off the sentence, because it's 25 to life. He made 23. Why? Because he said he had time served and all that. This would also make him eligible for parole beginning 2009. Right. So he did not get a life sentence. He got 23 years minimum. And then you get to have parole. Maybe give it a shot. So that was not the sentence he does. Also what a fucking precedent to send.

I will give you time served and then I will give you the option of parole. When you literally took a girl's life who was walking home. One of the most brutal murders and rape that I have ever come across and this guy didn't get automatically sentenced to life. This whole thing is like where the fuck were your heads? Now he immediately began serving his time. This is where you're like, wow, he immediately began serving his time at Clinton Correctional

Facility in Danimora and then was transferred to Attica in October of 1987. As soon as he entered prison, he started receiving disciplinary actions. He wouldn't listen to any orders. He became very violent with inmates and guards. So then your transfer parole should be taken away? Yeah. It was a constant with him as an inmate. At one point, guards found a shank under his mattress. At one point, he was in trouble because he had repeatedly smashed another inmate's head into a wall. Does that sound familiar? Sounds like he's getting better, guys. In 1992, he was transferred back to Danimora from Attica. In 1996, because of disciplinary issues, he was transferred again to a

maximum security prison in Auburn Correctional Facility. In 2000, he was transferred again because of his behaviors to Wendy correctional facility. In 2003 he was transferred to Cape Vincent correctional facility. In 2005 he was moved to Orleans correctional facility. And then in 2007 he was moved to Livingston correctional facility. I didn't even know there was this many correctional facility. But by all means, let's definitely let him let's waste everybody's fucking ecracidely. Ecracious time left on this earth to talk about maybe letting him out of prison. Persuade. When it seems like it's such a good idea.

Plus waste everybody's precious time. Oh, and he was transferred to Livingston Correctional, no facility within note saying he was uncontrollable and should be separated from inmates. But we're going to give him a chance to be out in the world in society. He can't be around other inmates. Other inmates have to be scared of him, but he's supposed to be let loose on the world? Possibly?

Is that like, is that what I'm hearing here? I don't waste my fucking time. Yeah. Guys, it's hard to work out. Let's just say it. I used to get in this weird funk of not being able to just like get in some kind of routine because once you're out of it, you're like, how do I start this again? You need to be motivated to get up and get moving, especially when your day is jam-packed

like mine often always is. That's why I love my Peloton bike. I am not kidding, guys. This brand is really something that changed the way I see working out. I am forever thankful. I personally am very committed to Bradley Rose as an instructor, but I have also taken some amazing classes from Dennis Morton, Ali Love, and Emma Lovewell. Honestly, they're all amazing.

You can't go wrong. They have become my personal workout buddies, and Bradley Rose's make their way into my day-to-day speech, so that's like very healthy, I think. But seriously, I just love that there's so much variety to be had on my bike. I can take yoga, boxing, cycling, meditation, tons more. I never have to stick to one thing. They have thousands of on-demand workouts to choose from, and that's what I personally need to stay motivated because when things get stale, I'm out. Speaking of staying motivated, Peloton instructors are highly trained fitness pros who motivate you through every single workout, whether you're a regular at the gym, not me, or someone who is new, or just getting back into working out. That's me. That's

me right there. Whatever your fitness level is, that's me, that's me right there. Whatever your fitness level is, that was me. Peloton instructors don't just teach, they motivate. That's what we all need. I always loads going to the gym for like a myriad of reasons, but one was just feeling super self-conscious. When I was just getting back into working out after a while, I didn't feel like I had any like kind of form going, and I just didn't want eyes on me while I was trying new workouts or machines. So I would just end up sitting on like a treadmill forever and I just didn't work. With my peloton, I can experiment with new types of movement, judgment-free, and at a level

in pace that feels good to me. And if it's not fun, why are you going to do it? Why? You're not. You're more likely to stick to a workout routine that you enjoy. So, Peloton makes every single class fun. So, it feels like you're just hanging out with your friends. I'm telling you Bradley Rose. Nothing else gets you moving like the perfect song in every Peloton class is set to a seriously awesome playlist that you can actually see before taking the class. You in the mood for a ride full of club bangers, like Ash? Yes. Yeah, an EDM run?

Yes. A metal ride? No. Yeah. A yoga flow class with soul music? Ooh, heck yes. Whatever you're into, you're gonna find the perfect soundtrack for your workout on Peloton.

See, Peloton fits seamlessly into your life, which is something that's like really appeals to me. Maybe you're looking for a 10 minute upper body stretch just between work calls, because why not? Or a 40 minute run before bed, that's usually what I do. Peloton works for your schedule, whether you have five minutes or you have an hour.

Plus, you're never gonna have an awkward encounter in the locker room ever again. You ever had one of those? Let's not talk about it. Right now is the perfect time to try out Peloton. The Peloton Bike Plus is now $500 less. It's best price yet, including free delivery and setup. And there are more game changing prices available on the original Peloton bike and Peloton tread. Visit 1Peloton.com to learn more. So then he was transferred again to mid-state correctional facility and that's where we get to 2009 in his first parole hearing. And they... I can't. I'm gonna just keep saying the same thing over and over again. This is a very frustrating thing, but this is why that petition is so important.

You guys have been awesome. You fucking bumped to that petition. You guys, serious fucking rock, so hard. Keep doing it. Please, if you haven't signed it, like just as this, hopefully part to is. I was gonna say, given you more. After hearing this, I would hope that you would feel

so inclined to sign it. Please just take like a second to do it. Yeah, that motherfucker has to stay in prison and we need to help that family make sure he's in prison. And this family shouldn't have to go. Every 24 hours. Do they go every single time? Yeah, they've gone like, or they've participated every single time.

They shouldn't have to worry about this man walking there. Yeah, that's, so Katie's family immediately went in to action in 2009 putting up that petition writing letters showing up to hearings. Clarkson University under new presidency also wrote letters to the parole board urging them to keep him by. That's great. That's good to hear. They wrote in the two I think it was in the 2009 one they said we submit that justice in the physical safety and emotional well-being of our campus community require that Mr. McCarthy be denied parole and that he served the rest of his national life in prison.

That's what the university said. Now they said this became like the family became their mission, this entire thing. Joe Jr. said this was his job now. Yeah. He was like, this became my job. He said, I'm going to keep that animal behind bars. I'm going to maintain Katie's dignity her legacy. He said quote There wasn't much I could do for Katie the few days she did survive, but I can do this for her

Which I like oh that hurt it gave me like a lump in my throat. Yeah, so each time they do the most they can every single time He's up for parole. They're like you are staying mind bars. According to an NNY350 article, Joe Jr. Kerry, Terry and Betsy give the parole boards several statements of their own each time. They always send in photos of Katie for those parole hearings. And Kerry said, quote,

we're told that they have to read everything that is given as part of victim statements. So we give them everything. Amazing. Now, do you want to know what he said when they asked him in 2009 at his parole hearing how he came across Katie and what happened? No. Do you want to know?

No. In his 2009 parole hearing, he said, quote, she was on the campus, on the Clarkson campus and she was going home. And I was going across the campus to meet some friends. You don't have friends. Since when? And it was, I was inebriated and I was going across the campus to meet some friends. You don't have friends. Since when? And it was, I was inebriated, and I was involved in drugs, and she was inebriated.

Oh, you know that? No, she wasn't. And she asked me if I wanted to participate in having sex, and I tried, and I couldn't, and she got mad and spit in my face, and it made me angry. All the way 23 years after this happened, 23 years after this mother fucker went to jail and made a ball kind of shit. He is now still gonna blame it on Katie. And he is still going to change his story completely. This is him trying to get out. By the way, this is him trying to get parole. He makes up a totally different story. They were shocked.

The parole board was like, what? Like he has never said this story. So they were like, what are you talking about? And so they were like, did you know her? Like you didn't know her. That was established in the first court. Like the whole trial. And he said, I met her a few times.

This is a lie. This is a full blown lie. Of course her a few times. This is a lie. This is a full blown lie. Of course it is. Everything he tells me is a lie. Then he was like, I knew her from a bar. I met her there and then we went to a hockey game together. What? What?

How dare you? So then the parole board was like, you didn't accompany her to a hockey game or accompany her to a bar, did you? Because they were like, you're a fucking liar. And I guarantee it, no. He said, I did to the hockey game. And they said, you had a date with her to a hockey game? Because they're like, what were in sweat from? And he said, well, not really a date. We had seats together. And we

went together and we saw the hockey game. We were interested in the same teams. So they said, who acquired the seats? How did the seats end up being next to each other? Like, if you didn't go together. And he said, I knew people that worked at the college and they told me there were seats available so we could utilize them. I'd be like, what was the team name? So they were like, so you say, how did she get into that seat? You asked her to sit in that seat and she said, yes. And they said, so you did know her before. And he said, through someone else, but not personally, but it was only happenstance that we did have those seats together. What? None of this happened. And then the parole board, he was like, okay, it's one of the guys on there was like, well, explain

that to me because I don't understand. And he said the two tickets were, well, actually there were four tickets and two of the people didn't show up. The way I love that even 23 years later, still can't do it. Still stick into the same shit. So can't do it. Not sticking to the same shit, but like the same theme of lying. Back on his bullshit. Two of the tickets were given to me,

and I went to one of my friends that was on the college campus that was going to Clarkson, and he had asked me if I wanted to go to the game. And I assumed that he was asking me to go. He handed me both tickets. Then when he said, when he asked the friend, what do I do with this other ticket that you gave me, he said the friend was like, you should take Katie.

So you didn't know her though. What? This isn't a reality. Like this isn't like insanity. Like this isn't him. No. I think he's trying. I was gonna say.

This is literally him just not knowing he can't lie. He doesn't even know what to say. So he goes, so that's, I said, okay, fine. And that's how I met her. And they were like, I thought you met her at a bar. I thought you already knew her. Why would this person suggest going with this girl that you didn't know?

I went and tapped the gavel and said, no parole, bye. And so they were like, okay, so she wanted to just go to the game, she didn't necessarily want to go to the game with you, right? Like they were literally like, it sounds like she just went to the game. she didn't necessarily wanted to go to the game with you, right? Like, they were literally like, it sounds like she just went to the game. And he goes exactly, she was just interested in the hockey game

and not interested in me. I'd be like, why the fuck are we even talking about this event, like, clearly did not happen? This was complete bullshit. She was a student also, so Katie literally could just get tickets to a home game if she really wanted to go to one. Right.

You could get free tickets. And Nancy, her roommates, said that McCarthy literally was never like he did not, like we didn't know who he was. Right. I'd never met that man. Because he, he wasn't a student here. No. No.

And he didn't know anybody on campus. He's bullshitting this whole thing. He followed her onto this campus. He had no connection to this campus whatsoever. All of her roommates were like, we went to hockey games before on campus, like all sports games. He was never there. We don't know who he is. We've never seen him on campus. This is a bunch of bullshit. He did not know bullshit. It's complete and utter bullshit. And also, it's like, okay, so you're telling me now that you

knew her, you like kind of went somewhere with her, but this night you decided to like kill her, because she didn't want to have sex with you. What? How did that happen? Like that doesn't make any sense. It's not the truth. So it gets worse. How? And this is his first parole here. How does it get worse? He's going right out the gate with just

thank goodness. He is a shitty as he is. And I love that at the end of it. They're like, yeah, let's do this again in two years. This will be great. So they asked him a more about the night of the crime. And he denied the whole thing. He said he forgot everything. Maybe he got hit by some unknown assailant in a black jacket. He can't really remember anymore. Totally. Then when asked about the only thing he did remember from that night, they were like, what is one thing you remember from that night?

He said, striking Kathy Walker. I... His parole was denied. But good. remember that from that night, he said, striking Kathy Walker. I, his parole was denied. But good. Striking Kathy Walker. Who's that? I, who's that? I, oh it gets worse. Wow.

So Carrie said, her sister Carrie said, this was a random act. My sister did not know Brian McCarthy. He was on parole when he brutally martyred her, because he was. I forgot that, because this has been so insane. So the parole board wrote that he demonstrated limited insight into your, into the violent heinous acts and no remorse was there and any that was was superficial at best and geared towards inter-engratiating yourself with the panel.

All factors considered, the panel concludes that your release at this time is incompatible with the welfare and safety of the community. Yeah. Now, in 2011, second-pural hearing, he did the same story, but this time he said the medical examiner was wrong and said,

no, her death was because of the way she hit the ground, not because, and he said if she was asphyxiated, it wasn't because I strangled her. It was because I threw her against the wall in her neck, snapped her subject. That broke her high, I don't sure. He then referred several times to Kim Avedikian, which is one of the security guards, but he was referring to him in, like, weird ways. And they were like, do you know who that is? Like, why are you saying that person's a name? And then they realized that he was talking about Katie, but he was calling her Kim Avedikian.

What? Because he didn't know her name. He just heard that name in the press somewhere. I was like, oh, that must have been her name. You've had 23 years, dude. To know her name. 25 now. The first parole hearing, he claimed that they knew each other and that they agreed to have

sex and that he couldn't do it and she's spitting his face and he got mad and killed her. And then at the end of that, he calls her Kathy Walker. So in the beginning, he's saying, I know her. So then he had two years to get his Kathy Walker. Two more years, he must have heard the name Kim Avedikian and he was like, oh, that's her name. Don't you have access to your own case files while in prison? Like, you can't review them, right?

He doesn't give a shit. That's like a thing, right? Yeah, you get like, he's definitely has heard her name. But he just didn't commit it to memory because he doesn't care. Or do you think he's being an asshole and saying the wrong name on purpose? I think he literally doesn't care

and I think he's a fucking idiot. Is what I think. That's unreal. Yeah. That parole was denied. Good. He's been denied ever since. And at one of the recent ones,

his family wrote a letter, his own family. Wrote a letter urging them to keep him behind bars and saying they've severed all ties with him and offering their condolences to Katie's family and saying like, we have nothing to do with him. He should be in bars for life. That's nice of them. Yeah. Now when it came time for Clarkson universities, civil lawsuit by the way. Oh right. They obviously offered a settle to try to make it go. Of course. Yeah, but Faye, he told them the family would really only do that if they agreed to publicly apologize for blaming Katie for her own rape and murder. Yep. If they actually promised to beef up security on campus.

Yep. If they acknowledged publicly that they were negligent as fuck, and if they gave an agreed upon financial settlement that was not released. They agreed. Okay. They settled and actually apologized and publicly wrote something that said it was not Katie's fault. But they stopped short of admitting their own wrongdoing and admitting that reps from the university

had publicly painted the crime as being partially Katie's fault. Mm-hmm. But whatever. Now luckily, in the years that followed, Clarkson did beef up their security. They added lighting, they added training, more security personnel, so Katie's family did exactly what they wanted to do,

which was incredible. Good. They cost that. Good. Absolutely. Like kids at Clarkson University are safe now because of Katie's family. Because of Katie's family.

And because of Katie. Yeah. And so Terry actually told one media outlet, Clarkson will be a safer campus. I hope we can keep one more family from going through what we've gone through. What we were looking for from the university was to accept responsibility and to do more conscious raising so that this would not happen again. What came out of this was awareness of

crime on campus. So they were looking for that. We just want it to be better. Right. Now, Terry kept trying to change things and she worked to fight for justice for victims. She joined victims of crime advocacy League of New York, which is called Bockel, and it's a group that centers on victims rights. It was started by a father of a young woman who was murdered in 1977 at another university, and this group pushed for a notification system for victims' families that would let them know the second their family members killer was up for parole. So that would be so good. Yeah, definitely. Now outside of that, Terry also linked up with other parents of murdered students and

murdered kids. They worked together to change the way victims and their families are treated throughout the judicial process. And in 1989, she and other families lobbied lawmakers to make it so colleges had to release their crime stats to prospective students before they went in. They absolutely should because they believed this was a safe campus. Right. It was in a small place, a safe place. They should have known that there was some stuff going on here. Eventually, the students write to know and

those students write to know in campus those students write to know, and Campus Security Act was signed into law, November 8, 1990. It later became the Jean Cleary Disclosure of Campus Security Policy and Campus Crime Statistics Act. It's also called the Cleary Act. Okay. Jean Cleary is one of, is it a victim of a crime on a campus? So it was after her. Of course.

Now, after all of this, Katie's family said they came even closer together. They were inseparable. They supported each other, even more than they had before. They always said, I love you to each other when leaving. They never took a second for granted with each other. They attribute that to Katie's spirit and her legacy. And a lot of them had what they feel are spiritual experiences surrounding Katie. I love it. They said like her photo will fall off of things. She's there.

Strange things like that will happen especially with her photo, which I love. Like she's still around. Yeah, she of course she is. Because she's like, look at my family. Yeah. Like look at my family and what they did and what they've accomplished. And what they're doing. Now, sadly in 1994, Joe Sr. the father was diagnosed with non-Hodgkins lymphoma

Oh my god. He did treatment. He did go into remission, but then August 10th 2007 He did pass away at the age of 67. Oh, I'm sorry. Now Terry said quote I just want to keep Katie alive and everybody's hearts and I don't want her to be forgotten. No. So that is what we are here to do today. And I know this was long. Thank you for bearing with me, but it was all so important. It's, I was going to say, it doesn't matter how long it is.

And there was just, and there's so much more. There's so much more. Read. I'm telling you. Read a stranger killed Katie by William Luru. We're going to wink it again. We'll link the petition.

We're going to link the family's Facebook page. Definitely go check it out, check out the Facebook page, sign that petition. Please. I think we got it up to like past 13,000, and I think it was at like 8,000, so let's like get that thing rolling.

I will post it on the morbid Twitter and Instagram, and we should also post it on our own socials. Yeah, because I wanna make it so that they don't have to do this every 24 months. I want him, let's cut that shit out. Nip that right in the middle. No parole for this fucker. He's got to be in, that's it.

Like they should just spend the rest of their lives remembering Katie in whatever way they want to, not because like a parole has something to do with them. They should have a taking time clock every 24 months at resets. No. And that's all they're going to think about. Let's get this fucking shit out. Her life needs to resets. No. And that's all they're gonna think about. Let's get this fucking shit. Her life needs to be celebrated. Yeah.

So that is the story of Katie Helwelka's murder. Wow. It's horrific. I had not heard enough about it. So I was like, what the hell? But like it just shows you that like this family is amazing. Katie was amazing.

And Brian McCarthy is a piece of fucking garbage and should never be up for Pearl. No. He's one, come on. I mean, it's, he's been violent in prison. Right. He's been violent before that. What are you guys doing?

He's calling her different names even now. He's a piece of shit. He has zero remorse. He would do it again in a second. No one wants to hear what he's doing. Yeah, I believe fully he would do it again in a second if really. He has. He did it remorse. He would do it again in a second. No one wants to hear what he's viewing. I believe it. Yeah, I believe fully he would do it again in a second if really. He has. He did it in prison. He beat somebody in prison.

Almost exactly. They're the same way. Exactly. So thanks guys for hanging in there and... Yeah. We hope you sign that petition. Yeah. We hope you keep listening.

And we hope you keep it. We're... But not so weird that you don't sign the petition and check out any social media page that is affiliated with us and you'll be able to find it I love you so much, bye, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.

What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill? Or are they made to kill? I'm Candace DeLong and on my podcast Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music. I share a quick 10-minute run down every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler. On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings.

Breaking down Lori Vallow, a K.A. Mommy Doom stays motives, and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder? I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey, Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psychie Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today.

Thank you.