Morbid - Episode 320: The Somerton Man Part 2

Episode Date: May 19, 2022

Part two of Somerton man is about to rock your world. In part one we got into all the nitty gritty with the discovery of his body and all the weird findings in the case afterwards. In part two we’ll get into some wild twists and turns with possible descendants of the man, we’re all going to fill out our punnett squares collectively, and we’ll hear of a beautiful love match that Somerton man is partially responsible for. Liz Wakeford Youtube Channel ABC Australian Story 60 minutes segment with Kate Get your tickets to our virtual event, Gilded Gore!  As always, thank you to our sponsors: ModernFertility: Right now, Modern Fertility is offering our listeners $20 off the test when you go to ModernFertility.comMORBID Daily Harvest: Go to DAILYHARVEST.com/morbid to get up to forty dollars off your first box! Shopify: Go to SHOPIFY.com/morbid, ALL LOWERCASE, for a FREE fourteen-day trial and get full access to Shopify’s entire suite of features. Fuzzy: Right now, Fuzzy is offering our listeners a FREE 7-Day Trial membership. Go to YourFuzzy.com/morbid today to sign up. Brickhouse nutrition: To help get you started, I got you 15% off your first order, plus… get another 10% off when you subscribe for recurring orders. Visit FieldofGreens.com and use promo code MORBID. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wundery pod or text wundery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. You can host the best backyard barbecue. When you find a professional on Angie to make your backyard the best around. Connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Inside to outside, repairs to renovations. Get started on the Angie app or visit Angie.com today. You can do this when you Angie that. Guys, we wanted to let you in on like a

little inside scoop just so you know what's going on out here. We posted on social media but not all you have that. Me, Ash and my co-star here, Alina, co-star, I'm screaming. me, Ash, and my co-star here, Elena, co-star, I'm screaming. Co-host. We are doing a show, another show in Salem, but it's virtual, and it is called Gilded Gore. It is going to be May 19th at 8 PM Eastern time and 5 PM Pacific time.

You can buy tickets right now at momenthouse.com slash morbid. Be there or be lame. Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this, this thing right here, by your listen to, in their car, I feel like. Or maybe you're working out, or maybe you're cooking dinner. Yeah, I don't know why I just put you all in your heart. Well, most people are in their car, I feel like.

Yeah, I feel like we're right. Or maybe Shaolin. Shaolin, I love to listen to a podcast in the shower. I always listen to a podcast in the shower. But you know what I listen to in the shower the other day? And I was jamming. Let me take a while to guess here. This is a shot in the dark.

I have no, this is not an educated guess. No prior knowledge. Was it perhaps ghost? It was actually. Oh, yeah, I was rocking out to it. It's a great shower. In Para is a very great shower record. Okay.

So the shower album is jamming. A shower. spillways had me go in and with the shower. But lately, I've been listening to the Giggly Spod in the show and in the car and everywhere I go because personally I'm obsessed with Paige Desorbo and Hannah Berner. So there you go. Shout out to Hannah, she just got me read, congrats. Look at you.

Want to be friends everyone? That's my shot. That's my shot. I just shot it. I shot it. Good for you, man. Thanks. I believe in you.

One thing that I do want to get to right away, on a serious note. Yeah, we're getting down to a very serious note here, but I just wanted to say we have seen all the messages and emails about this latest true crime update. We're going to talk about it literally for like a minute because it to me it seems like the family Would really just like to deal with this right now and I don't want to add to the noise But I know everybody's been asking us like have you seen this? Brittany Drexel's body has been found it has been confirmed to be hers With dental records and DNA

unfortunately, yeah to be hers with dental records in DNA, unfortunately. This is like really sad. She was obviously kidnapped, which is really the unthinkable. Like there was so many theories to go on, but it's really sad that the actual outcome of this was she was likely just kidnapped right off that strip. So messed up.

Which is really horrific. There has been a suspect who's been arrested, who they know did it. His name is Raymond Douglas Moody. They believe that he raped and killed her that day. He's a known sex offender. He's been on the South Carolina sex offender registry. He was there for a 1983 conviction,

which was a horrific conviction, by the way, of someone under 14 and kidnapping. What the fuck was he doing walking around? So he's a violent piece of shit, but he's been arrested and that is good. But from everything I've seen, we've been looking at it for a couple of days, just like watching little interviews with snippets.

And it seems like her mom Don and her dad Chad, they all seem like they're like processing this now. Yeah. So we wanted to mention it because we wanted to tell you guys we heard you, we definitely saw this news and it's very important, but we're going to step back and just let the family deal with this right now because it's all kind of new. Yeah. It really shuts the door on the case

and it's like no matter what, they were probably holding out hope for a long time that there was some kind of voice that she was out there, a life. So this has got to be a really big blow, but we wanted to just mention it and we're gonna move away from it now. We will update if anything comes out

and the family starts talking about it more, but we're just gonna let them have a moment right now. It's really fresh. So we like to let those things breathe a little bit, so we're gonna let that breathe. But we appreciate you guys letting us know and tagging us and all the stuff. We appreciate you guys.

And right now, our thoughts and all our good vibes are being sent to Oh, good luck. So many. I feel so bad for her family. I do too. I'm so sad. But. So switching gears a little bit,

we're gonna get into Summerton Man Part Two. I'm ready to hear the theories. Oh, girl. I'm ready for you to make my, you know, my horrible ear anatomy experience go away. I've got a very excited about that. Two parts of the ear anatomy. It's experienced go away. I've got a very excited about that. Two parts of the ear that can like go away for you. I'll take it.

And I have like a fun little way to remember. I'll really take it. And by the way, just a quick little side before we get into it. For part one, I don't know if anybody notices this might be my own neuroses and like Ash knows me too. Oh my God, I have such fucking personal neuroses with myself. I do, I just like have a lot of them, so like,

if this might be me, I'm like very hard on myself. Same, and during, there we go, high five. Oh, that was great. But I had a full blown migraine through the first part of that, and I didn't tell Ash. She did not. So I was just sitting there like glazed over, trying to stare at her.

And the story was so compelling that I was like I want to make sure she knows that like I'm very compelled by this But I was like I hope it doesn't come so if I sounded like sleepy at all or anything like that No one has said anything. I'm not saying anyone has it might not have even come off that way but my own personal I just wanted to make sure like sorry if I sounded like Oh my god in that one? Not at all. It's so funny, because now I've seen you perform twice

through a migraine. And it's the wildest thing because you would just never know. That's awesome. I knew that you were like a little bit off. Definitely. And I was like, what's going on over there with her? But I wasn't like freaking out about it at all. It was more like, you don't feel good.

I was just like, oh no. And then obviously after the episode, you were like, oh my god, I have a fucking migraine. And I was like, oh my god. Like, why? We could have done this at a late-to-date. Yeah, it's just any migraine sufferers out there. You know that change in weather and change in temperature.

Oh, and the knock you right up. Bara metric pressure. Yeah, once that drops, I'm out. I'm down for the count. It always gets me every time. And we have sling shot it from like 2030 degrees up here in Massachusetts all the way to like 80s. It's gonna be fucking 93 yeah on Saturday. Fox my migraines up. I so I could totally got

I knew one was was brewing out there somewhere because of that sling shot in temperature and there was and it was a Narlie one. It was a real gnarly one. It was like had an aura with it and stuff. Like seeing any migraine sufferers, you know. Yeah, she texted me last night to be like, oh, I think I said, like, are you feeling better? And you were like, oh yeah, it just got like an aura. And I was like, yeah, I had a pretty gnarly aura

and she was like, how's it going to be? What? It's spiritual like me right now. Like you felt like you felt like you're migraine had a personality like your aura was offered. You were like,'re migraine, how to personality, like your aura was off. For some reason, you were like, Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, more like science. No, just flashing lights in front of my eyes.

So funny. But yeah, so I'm excited. Okay, I'm excited too, because this is my, I mean, like I love this whole case. Like I'm just wide. It was fun to put together. And I can say that because it's like a little like looser. Yeah, for sure.

But this is my favorite part of the two So let's go. So let's go. So when we left off Oh, and I'm gonna just so you know I'm Elena had asked a question in the last one about his esophagus I just want to let you know right at the top. I'm gonna get to that a little bit later It's pretty close to the end, but I did find something out. She did When we left off in part one we had really just gotten into one of the key players in the Summer Tin Man case,

a woman known by many different names, including Jessica, Joe, Justin. There's a couple others out there floating around that I saw, but I didn't see them and everything, so I didn't want to write them down, but good old Justin. Lots of names, but usually just by the last name, Thompson. So there's a lot of details from part one,

by the way, that you should hear before listening to part two. Sometimes I've heard people say that they listen to part two first. Really? And I'm like, no, no, don't do that. I don't know. You will miss all the things. Yeah. So listen to that first and then come over here. But one of the things that I mentioned right at the end was that there was a man named Derek Abbott. So Derek Abbott is a physicist and electronic engineer, and somebody who just became absolutely enthralled with the Summerton man case, kind of bi-accident, actually.

Love that. He discovered the case, because I think he was doing his laundry in a laundromat, and he was flicking through a magazine article that was just like laid on the table next to him. And inside of the magazine, they had a feature and it was like going over various unsolved cases

and Australian history. And the case that really stuck out to him was the Summerton man case. Look at that. Of course. And the thing within the Summerton man case that really got him going was that code that had been written on the back cover of the summer tin man's copy of the ruby.

Yeah. Now in part one, I mentioned also that the code has been sent around for years and nobody's been able to crack it. Not naval intelligence, not Scotland yard, not anybody. Not the zodiac people, not the zodiac people. That one? I know. We got to send it on over to that.

I know, did we? Is that like, does anybody give it to them? Guys, hello. Well, Professor Abbott, he had actually worked with the police in the past before. I was actually looking through the Patreon comments on part one, and somebody referenced the Snowtown case. He was actually an expert witness on that case. Oh, wow.

Yeah, and that person wanted you to cover the case, so go on my list. All right, so I'm glad you said that. Thank you What if I told you that you could get important fertility insight without going to the doctor or even leaving home That is exactly why modern fertility was created It's an easy and affordable way to test your fertility hormones at home with a simple finger prick. Mail it in with a prepaid label and you'll get your personalized results within 10 days. You're going to get insights into your hormone

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Get $20 off your fertility test when you go to modernfertility.com slash morbid. Modernfertility.com slash morbid modern fertility dot com slash morbid. Yes, so he had worked with the police in the past, obviously, I'm like a huge case, but also other various times. And he thought that the code would make a fun assignment for his students because he was a professor, as I said. So with that, he assigned them the code. They have not been able to crack it. and unfortunately as they might. But with that, he dove headfirst into what he probably didn't realize at the time, would become one of the biggest

and most life-changing projects that he'd ever started. Wow. So an incredibly important name that we haven't mentioned yet is Jerry Feltis. He was a retired detective, and he took on the summer tin cold case in the early 2000s. He was a retired detective, and he took on the summer tincold case in the early 2000s, like as a retired detective. And he also became super enthralled with it.

One major thing that struck him as odd looking over the paperwork was that the person who seemed to be like the case's key witness wasn't named, because remember, Joe Thompson asked that her name be left out of any paperwork that was going to be filed on the case. So it became Jerry's fucking mission to find out who this person was. Yeah.

But the problem was that he didn't really have a lot to go on other than the phone number of the anonymous woman because it had been found along with the uncrackable code in the summertime man's copy of the ruby out. So yeah, he knew it was there. But they didn't really have anything else from this case like over the years a ton has been lost That's so sad the autopsy was lost the suit case has been lost the copy of the Ruby out has been like all like everything is gone But somehow he was able to get his hands on an old 1947 phone book from the area.

For all you youngsters who were not around for the yellow pages, we really did get phone books delivered. And we had to look up numbers. Like, you were around for that? Okay, my next sentence that I wrote was, I am old enough to have little memories. I was like looking up a phone number and you used to have, remember, you used to have to look it up based on the service that you were trying to find, like, not the last name. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I remember. Oh, okay. There we go. I was going to ask. I was like, remember you used to have to look it up based on the service that you were trying to find, like, not the last name. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I remember.

Oh, okay. There we go. I was gonna ask. I was like, do you remember that? I do. I was definitely like really young, but I was on Puppas and they'd be like, oh, like, find this number. Find this number in the yellow pages. I'd be like, all right. But so he sat up and he said that for every night, for a half an hour, he would sit with the phone book laid out in front of him and go through as many pages as he could within that setting, just looking for this phone number. Like, he didn't even have a name,

he's looking for a number. And it's not like he could Google it and just be like, find that phone number. Right, exactly. And if you remember, those little mic numbers were so tiny, seriously. And there was like a billion on each page. Oh my God.

That's the thing, he was like, I could only and even the fact that he could do a couple of pages Oh, yeah, I'd give up after like five I do like for five like numbers Yeah, I'd be like oh, I'm tired. I do like half a page and be like well, I have less stigmatism now Yeah, that's gonna say talk about a migraine apparently he doesn't have a stigmatism because that's wild But finally one night he found the number shit And he was able to locate the woman. Stop the woman, Joe Justin McGee. Justin McGee McGoo. Correct.

So he ended up talking with her on two separate occasions. And just like the other detectives in the case, every time he talked to her, he felt like there was something that she was just keeping from him. She didn't want to let on too much. And he also found out that over the years she moved a lot and she changed her address pretty consistently. And obviously he felt like that was intentional and that she was like running from something.

Yeah, of course. So he pretty much knows this entire case inside out. He actually wrote the book on it. Like the actual book on it. He wrote the actual book. So he had a strong feeling that Joe knew more than she was saying. I'm buying what he's selling if he feels that way. Honestly, I believe Derek. No, no, no, this is Jerry. Excuse me, this is Jerry. Sorry. This is Jerry. Wrong name. I'm very important character, like players in the case. I mean, I believe Derek too. I believe everybody. That's

what it expert. I believe all of them. But so this book that he wrote, Jerry Feltis, it's called The Unknown Man, a suspicious death at Summerton Beach. And it quite literally costs $700 on Amazon. Oh, cool. And that's the only copy I could find. So like if you have one or if you know of a decently priced one, let me know.

Well, let me know. Cause I really wanted to read this book. I know. I hate what that happens. It's like the book on the case. That happened with the, and weird, the Oklahoma Girl Scout murders. That, that book is like very rare. That's very weird. Yeah. That's, that happened. What a weird cure. That's, that was weird. Just, they just popped into my head. I was like, wait a second.

Oh, it's keeping it weird. It's serious. So yeah, I couldn't get the book, but whatever. And that's beside the point. So back when Professor Abbott discovered the case, he was actually able to link up with Jerry, and they both started working together to try to see if they could put two heads together solve this mystery. So they actually spent quite a few years working on it, the between the two of them,

and they even premiered in a documentary together called Missing Pieces, the curious case of the Summerton Man. I haven't watched it yet, so if you do, let me know how it is. But after years spent working in Unison, they had some kind of like argument or disagreement and they ended up parting ways. Oh no! Yeah, I'm not entirely sure like what happened, but... I woke up, that's sad.

One I watched, like a quick ABC special on this like ABC Australia special, and there was a woman in the documentary who also was like specialized in this case. And to her, she was like, I think there's just so much pressure on anybody trying to solve this case that they wanna be the person to solve it. So it's hard for two people to work together, you know? But anyways, the Summerton man case

has obviously got quite a reputation over the years and the stakes have only gotten higher and higher. So I get how tension got involved between the two. Yeah, for sure. One of Jerry Fulton's quotes on the case literally is, I would say everyone who worked on the case was starting to become frustrated with it. But everyone working on the case or had an interest in the case always thought that something would come up tomorrow, but tomorrow never came. Oh, and you can feel that. Oh, you can feel it so hard. You can feel it, especially when you're in this shit,

you're like, when is tomorrow gonna come? Yeah, because you have so much hope and you're like, there's all these little pieces they have to fit somehow. Yes, they can't just be scattered to the wind. But it's like every tomorrow that happens, it's like another piece that doesn't fit. Exactly, and it's like another piece

that you think you have all the pieces. And then another piece just comes falling from the fucking sky. Exactly. That ruins the entire thing. Exactly. But here's the thing. At the time it was true that tomorrow never came. But to give credit where massive credit is due, Professor Abbott has made some wild movement in this case, if his theories turn out to be true, and even if they don't. So back when they were working together on the case, Jerry Feltis actually had not shared Joe Thompson's name because he had

earned her trust somewhat and he didn't really want to mess that up by handing off her information to somebody when she didn't want that handed off. Yeah, that's good and ethical. It is, I love it. So when Abbott went solo on the case, he also had to come up with a way to locate her and he didn't get the yellow pages. Instead, he took kind of a similar approach and he started flickering through different records. I meant to say flicking. Flicking.

Flicking through different records, trying to find her information between like hospital records and stuff like that. And then finally, something happened. So somehow, he was able to find a picture of the woman that he believed to be Joe, but he needed to confirm the belief without a doubt, obviously, if he was going to move on. So he knew that Paul Lawson, the taxidermist who had done the bold of Summerton man, and he knew that he was there the day that the police brought Joe to the Adelaide

Museum. So he brought the picture to Lawson's office and he just put it on his desk to see if maybe it would strike up a memory after all those years. Lawson took one look at the photo and he said without a doubt in his mind that was exactly the person that Abbott had been looking for. Oh, shit. Joe Thompson. How does that even happen?

I have no idea. I swear it's like these people are meant to find these pieces. Okay. Like some people are just meant to be the ones who discovered these things. Oh, it's like, it's so perfect that you said that girl because just wait. Like a beautiful moment occurs in a story. So I asked you, wait, I don't know what that's from.

It was the wrong tune. So that was your fault at all. It was Hamilton. But I know everybody that was not the tune. I'm dead. I made up my own tune to it. It's so funny though that you said that because just you wait. Just you wait.

Just you. There it is. Okay. Sounds still not great, but I'm sorry. It was beautiful. I love that. I appreciate it. So he finds, he finds Joe.

He's like, or he knows that this is Joe, so he's off to find her. He finds her. Stop. She's dead. He doesn't find her dead, but like she's already died. I was like, oh wow. I didn't hear that bear. The lead on that one. No, no, no. She had died just two years before he figured out who she was. That's a tough hit. A bad hit. Yes. That's a tough hit. But not one to keep Professor Abbott down. No. At this point, he thought the best next step to take would be seeing if she had any next of kin.

Like if she had it. Of course. Especially descendants. Like if she had children. And he thought, you know, maybe growing up, they had heard something, or maybe at the end of her life, she had revealed something to them that she'd been hiding for all these years. So he started looking, and he was able to them that she'd been hiding for all these years. So he started looking, and he was able to find out that Joe had a son named Robin.

Hmm. Well, cue the next hit, because once Abbott had gathered up enough information to locate and contact Robin, he found out that Robin had died just two months before. Oh, stop. Two months, so Joe had died two years before he got into contact with her and Robin died two months. Oh, stop. Two months. So Joe had died two years before he got into contact with her and Robin died two months. Oh my God. Can you imagine how frustrated he must have been? Oh, I'm frustrated for him. Me too. But in finding out about Robin's existence, there was a lot more to the story that he was able to learn. Because interestingly enough,

Robin was a professional ballet dancer. Oh, yeah. That was awesome. He had gone to the Australian Ballet School and then made his way into the official Australian Ballet. Oh, damn. And there's pigs. We can post them. Apparently he was very well known for his jump.

Oh, get it. Yeah, and he had some nice calves. I was literally just going to say, well, maybe him and Somerton Man know each other because they both have great calves. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. There you go. Because like I said in part one, Sumerton Man, his calves were very muscular.

They sat very high up on his leg, almost like a dancer's would have, and he had those wedge toes that would suggest that he wore some kind of point to choose regularly. And if you look online at like images, oh yeah, you can see his, they have a picture of his calves Yeah, and those are dancers cap 100 good. Jillian by any percent those that's the first thing I saw

That's the thing it looks different than runners cabs or like yeah, you know something about then They're so well-defined and it's probably because when we don't know if he was a dancer But if he was it's probably because he was like oh the point, you know, like that's exercising a different part of your cast, I was sure. A different muscle, for sure. Exactly. So it was then that Abbot pondered a new question. Was it possible that Robin was Summerton man's son?

Oh, perhaps. Whoa. Because, so Joe saw that bust of him and literally freaked out. Oh my God. Maybe that was the reason why she had been so evasive with the police, because she was actually married at the time to another man named Prosper Thompson. Obviously, when the police started coming around, Prosper probably would have had some questions to ask his wife.

Yeah. And that could be the reason why she stayed so quiet. That's a good theory. It is definitely. Or, you know, we're gonna get into some later, maybe she knew what had happened to him and she was freaking out a little bit. I'm saying. I don't know. That's kind of what I was thinking. But we'll get there. We don't know. So to test his hypothesis, Abik got in touch with a man named Dr. Machae, Henny Henneberg. And literally all I could think of when I saw his last name, Henneberg, was Jonathan Van Esmond and he goes, hey, any.

Oh my God. And perfect. I just found out that he listens to the show. So, hi, JVN. Oh, hi, Jonathan. I'm shitting my pants. I know that was a really great. My face turned red now.

And he's like not even here. Yeah, obviously. That was a really wonderful thing to learn. Imagine if at this point, I was like, by the way, Jonathan Van Esmond is here. By the way, and here's Jonathan. He'd be like, what? Say Henny. Say Henny. So yeah, so like, habit gets in touch with Dr. Maché Hennyberg. Henny. So that's like, I can't. And also, okay, before I get into what they talked about, I just have to tell you how much I love Dr. Hennyberg

and how fucking impressed with MIM. Oh good, I love that. First of all, I keep moving, I'm sorry, if you can hear that, my chair's like making a sound, but my butt was fallen asleep. So first of all, he's been a professor at Adelaide University for almost 26 years now, and his official title with the university is Professor of Anthropological and Comparative Anatomy.

Oh, hell yeah. It sounds better when like smarter people say it. We go like a Dr. Bill Bass on our hands. Literally. Oh, but wait, there's more. He specializes in teaching human evolution, anatomy, physical anthropology, and forensic science. Oh my God.

He is associated with some of the most esteemed universities around the world, like Oxford University? I've never heard of it. No? No, I think that it's probably like small, right? Yeah, it's like super tiny. I don't know about it. Yeah, man.

No, it's like for the university. And this is just like a wild fun fact. He was exiled from Poland in the 80s. That's a very intense. He's Polish, but because he was part of a social movement back then, where people were like fighting back against the government because they were trying to get fair workers' rights and like social changes. Whoa.

So he was one of those people like fighting against the government. Fightin' the good fight, and then he got exiled. Wow. He's just wild. Hennepur. This man has, Hennep. Hennepur. This man has lived a life.

And I feel like he's like one of the smartest people that I've ever like read about. Oh yeah, I mean all his titles and the things that he teats specializes in you have to be. Also he's fucking adorable. Oh really? Just like he's got like kind nice. Oh I love that. Yeah I'll show you later or you could google it. I'll have to show you. Whatever you want. Whatever you do. You just do your thing. Obviously Dr. Obviously, Dr. Abbott shared my thoughts because he felt confident enough sharing his hypothesis with the doctor.

And in turn, he got some riveting results. I would now like you all to break out your Punnett squares. Oh, I'm ready. I told you they were coming. Ash can tell you I'm breaking mine out right now. Oh my gosh, wow. You have that on deck. I have it.

So Dr. Hannoverg, he's like an esteemed doctor, Dr. Hanoverg, compared photos of Robin to Sumerton man's teeth and ears to see if there were any similarities between the two men. And there were a few. Okay. So the first thing that Dr. Hanoverg noticed about the two men were their ears.

They were very similar in a couple of different ways. Firstly, they both had attached earlobes. That's the first thing I was going to ask, because I know that's like a genetic thing. And it is a genetic thing, and it's a recessive treat. So it's not always going to show up. Ooh, this is fun. I'm very excited.

You're going to love this part. It's like, oh, it's this whole paragraph that I have written. Oh, I'm like, let's go. Now, according to news medical life sciences, quote, attached earlobes are not rare, but are also not commonly found. Okay, I feel they're just like, I feel like that's like an oxymoron. Okay, I'm trying to like logic this out in my head.

So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is that. So is rare. Like not many people have that. That's rare, yeah. You're special. Commonly found would be like, oh, like you find that a lot of people.

Okay. So maybe it's just like not rare, but not like everyone has them somewhere in the middle. I was just gonna say it lives in the middle. It's not weird to find them, but it's not, you don't see it on everybody. Okay, cool. I guess is how I would think of that.

Okay. But it does immediately sound like an oxymor. It totally does. I was like you need it and I was like I don't know guys. I don't know about that I don't know you scientists like a meash over here with all my fucking credentials. I think you're wrong This college dropout right here does not understand So therefore you are wrong. You are wrong. They're like literally get fucked It was a confusing way of putting it. It was. Thank you.

So you're sad. Either way though, it does leave room for pause on the case of Summerton Man's possible relation to Robin, but we got to start looking for some more shit. So the next thing that was noticed on the man's ears were the size of the hollows in each of their ears. Now this part, I learned watching Liz Wakeford's video on this.

She has a YouTube page. I definitely suggest subscribing to her page, and I'll link it in the show notes. Great. So, the two hollows in a person's ear actually have official names. The upper hollow is called the Simba, and the lower one is called the Cavom. Now, the way that I decided to remember that

was to associate it with the lion. I can't. I fucking knew it. I almost said it back to you. I almost associate it with the lion. I can't. I fucking knew it. I almost said it. I almost said it. I do. I do. Although the two simbas are not spelled the same. Yeah. Simba in the movie is also on top when he becomes the leader

of his fellow lions at the end. That's right. Like very sorry to spoil the ending there if you haven't seen it. But like you had a lot of time. So Simba's on top. So anyway, typically, That's the same thing. I knew you were going to love that. Thank you had a lot of time. So Simba's on top. So anyway, typically, I knew you were gonna love that. Thank you for that.

No problem. Wish I could have helped you in school. Like was that even important in school? That wasn't the thing. I was like super caught up on. It was those insides. Yeah, yeah. We didn't get that.

Barbell bitches, fuck them. Isn't your ear mostly cartilage? It's the bones inside. Oh, like next to your skull. Yeah, like your ear drum and shit. Ooh, you'll have to tell us about that later. They help me sound like what it is. Very cool.

Yeah, cool, cool. It's interesting. It's just really complex. That's the thing. These things are interesting, but very complex, just to say exactly what you just said. You know? So anyway, the Symba, the top hollow,

is usually comparatively smaller than the cavum. But in 1% or about 1% of the population, it's the opposite. The Symba is larger than the cavum. Okay. So that would mean... Oh, that's interesting. The upper hollow of the ear would be larger than the lower hollow. So if you look at your ears right now,

most likely, your cavum is a larger hollow than your... In your Symba. Mine are yours are as well cool So you are not we're not rare gems Now strangely enough both summerton man and Robin Thompson were rare gemstones They seem to make up a portion of that one percent of people this happens to that's interesting So they both have larger cabboms. Okay. No, no, no, excuse me.

Sorry, larger symbols. I forgot about the line. Don't worry, it's okay. They both have larger symbols. Okay. So that's the ears. Oh, excuse me, there's one more thing to do about the ears. One more ear is done with the ears.

You know what I'm all ears. Keep your ears turned on for this. Come on, Nick. This is interesting, and I didn't know about this, and I'd be interested to see if you did. Something to note about Summerton Man's ear is that he has what's called a diagonal earlobe crease. So if you look at his autopsy photo, especially it's like prominent there, and if you zoom in, you can see a pretty good sized, technically diagonal, but it's horizontal really, in my opinion,

crease in his earlobe. Now, according to Lisa Zaga, who wrote a few articles on Summertonman for fizz.org, having a diagonal earlobe crease, aka a delk, can potentially put somebody at an increased risk of having an ischemic heart attack. Wow. Yes.

I didn't know that. Neither did I. That I news to me. That's really interesting. Oh, I love when that happens. I love to have you something I didn't know that. Neither did I. That I news to me. That's really interesting. Oh, I love when that happens. I love to have you something you didn't know. Now, as we know, Sumerton Man died officially of heart failure. So maybe we should be blaming earlobes for the heart attack

instead of fox glove. Holy shit. Right? I almost said shite and shit, so I came out a little weird, but the feeling is the same. Shit. Wow. Wow. Wow.

Wow. You crazy girl. You crazy. That's our favorite girl. I'm taking a leave now. It's so good. That is my favorite. So either way, you got to just leave that in your back pocket

for a minute because it's time to talk about teeth. We're officially done with ears. So is time to talk about teeth. Show me your teeth. Yes. My favorite. Oh my your teeth. Yes. My favorite. My favorite. Oh my God. Good God.

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That's dailyharvest.com slash morbid for up to $40 off your first box dailyharvest.com slash morbid. Anyways, this is not about Gaga, although everything is. Throughout the research process on Summerton Man, you find out pretty quickly how many rare traits he had. Yeah. One of those traits was Andonsha, meaning that he was missing some of his adult teeth. He had some missing molars in the back, but it hasn't been determined whether or not

he was born without them, or if he had had them pulled for some reason. But he was definitely born without his lateral insizers, which are the top teeth on either side of your front teeth, which are also known as your central insizers. There you go, because they're central. Yeah. Now, this is a pretty rare trait that only about 2% of the population shares. Whoa.

So I did that math for you because I was interested. Right now, if we're talking about like right now, which we're not, but whatever. The world's population, for example, is about 7.8 million people. Two percent of that would be 156 million people. So in comparison, that's a pretty small amount. Very. You know? Yeah.

So, you know who else was born without their lateral insiders? Hmm. I don't know. Who? Robin. So, you know who else was born without their lateral incisors? Hmm. I don't know. Who? Robin. Okay, that's weird. That's fucking weird. That's weird. And to have this many like rare traits? Yeah.

All at once, first of all, that's crazy to have that many rare traits all together. Yeah, it'd be weird. Yeah. But for two people, to share all of those rare traits, two people that you are kind of thinking might be related. Mm-hmm, that's weird. Yeah, exactly. It's so weird in fact that Dr. Henniburg,

he stated that a combination of just two of these similarities happens maybe in about one to every 10,000 cases. Oh, I believe that, because that was what was so shocking to me. I was like, how are all of these in two people? Right, exactly. Like all at once.

Exactly. That's weird. So in his opinion, this crazy well-esteem doctor's opinion, Summerton, Man and Robin were related, and most likely, father and son. Wow. To a brain explosion. I believe that.

So far. That is very strong to me. It's pretty strong to me too, but we still have some more stuff to talk about. Cool, I'm ready. So the problem with that was who the hell was going to be able to prove this? Like that is the problem. Who's around here to prove this? Yeah, not me. Not me. Well, actually, I am here. I'm here, but I can't prove it. I'm here to tell you who tried to prove this. Yeah. It was. Not me. Well, actually, I am here. I'm here, but I can't prove it. I'm here to tell you who tried to prove this. Yeah. It was then that Professor Abbott started looking into Robyn's genealogy to see if he had any children.

Professor Abbott is always on the move looking for some descendants. I love that. Same for you. I am. I'm always. Didn't know that. I'm looking through that and ship manifests. So all about it.

He loves a good ship and I do. So he's trying to find out if Robin has any kids. And it turns out Robin did have a daughter with a fellow ballerina that he had met at the Australian Ballet School. Oh, okay. A woman named Roma. Oh, stop.

Robin and Roma. Thank you to Roma. To ballet, like beauties, having an offspring together. That's, that's too much. It's a beautiful moment too much. But unfortunately Roma and Robin did have to make the decision to give their little daughter Rachel up for adoption because they were super young at this point in time and they had like a lot going on with ballet and they didn't have the financial means to keep her and they wanted to make sure that she was with a family

who would be able to provide everything, exactly. So she was put up for adoption and she ended up growing up in New Zealand. She actually didn't find out that she was adopted until she got to college and she got a letter informing her that she was. So she was actually really excited and hopeful to make a connection with her birth parents

because when she was growing up, she had always had this like really intense love for ballet, but nobody in her family that she knew of was a dancer. Oh my God, it was just inside of her. Thank you. Wow. Isn't that crazy? That's cool.

So she made the attempt to reach out to her birth mother Roma and she learned the story of both of her parents, how they were fucking ballet dancers who met in fell in love and spent all their time together at the Australian ballet. Wow. Are you kidding me? Imagine that just validating something like that? It's just so wild to think that like, you, like her yearning to be a dancer may have been genetic. I know like something in there. Isn't that crazy? Wow, DNA is wild.

It is. So unfortunately, Roma obviously had to break the news to Rachel that Robin had passed away. But mother and daughter ended up starting a really strong connection. That's awesome. Roma owned a ballet studio, and Rachel started helping her out at the school, designing costumes, and organizing

recitals for the dancers, and they became really close. I love that. But unfortunately, I see your face. That's... Yeah. My face is not good because the two of them aren't in contact anymore, at least as of the date of the ABC special that I watched, because a portion of that reason is because Rachel ended up making the acquaintance of Derek Abbott, and Roma didn't necessarily approve. Oh.

And I'll tell you why. So Abbott decided to write a letter to Rachel once he realized that she might be one of Summerton Man's only living descendants. Yeah. More specifically, his granddaughter, like how wild would that be? Whoa. So he explains his theory and wrote all his findings so far in this letter that he gives to her and he asks her Would she ever have the time to speak with him?

So a part of Rachel was like this is very far-fetched and sounds crazy But she was also really intrigued by everything that he had written cuz I would holy shit So she was like yeah, like what do I have to lose? Yeah, also she looks like she could be Candace Cameron's twin Oh really? Look it up. It's wild Rachel Egan is her name Rachel Egan so later hon she joked that she was a willing victim. Oh no, no We're not in like a bad way. No, but it sounds funny. Silly funny. Ha ha. Silly funny. Ha ha So with Rachel willing to meet him

Abbott headed out to Brisbane right away and he invited Rachel to go to dinner to talk over the case, and maybe get a look at her ears and her teeth. And while she's not missing her lateral insiders, it does look to me that her cavum is slightly larger than her Simba. Really? It's worth noting. And I didn't see anything written about that. I just looked at her and I caught that myself. So wow, she really does look like her twin.

Her literal twin, right? Yeah, that's pretty wild. So now you're gonna wanna buckle up for this. As they were sitting over their fancy French dinner, discussing a man who might be Rachel's grandfather, there was like this certain feeling in the air. A feeling of love. Rachel and Professor Abbott were like really hitting it off.

Stop. And within a few days, they were already talking about the possibility of marrying each other. Stop. And not long after that, they got married. They got married in 2010. They got married in 2010. And from the looks of it, I'm pretty sure they're still married. And they have three children together.

That's kind of amazing. And the way that he put it was something just magically drew us together. Oh my goodness. Like I have goosebumps. Oh my goodness. And they have all these pictures and graveyards. I love who I love. This is really special. It is. And they for a while, they had a picture of Joe, the grandmother, because Joe is Rachel's grandmother. Well, obviously. But just like, whoa, but like crazy. So they had a painting done of her,

and then they put it next to a painting of Suburitan Man. And I think it was in their kids' playroom for a little while. Oh my God. And the kids would call him Mr. S and like, Duh, you know, but I did read an article that they were gonna move Mr. S to the office because they were gonna move Mr. S. They office because they were going to move Mr. S. They're not so sure whether or not they're related anymore.

Yeah, so they're like, I don't know if we should have him hanging. Exactly. So some people... I don't know if it's good to meet us. But some people were not happy about this relationship between Rachel and Professor Abbott. And one of those people was Roma, Rachel's birth mother. She felt like the marriage was a rush decision, and that Abbott had only married Rachel to get her DNA. Ooh, that would be so wild.

Incredibly fucked. So Rachel jokes she was like, obviously he wanted to get his hands on my DNA, but like, that's not the only reason that we're married. Yeah, like, I promise you. We kind of like each other. Like they have children together, guys. But I guess, they've really committed to this, if that's, if he was just looking for DNA.

He's really gone to distance. And I believe they're still married, for my, like I couldn't find anything that said they weren't. They've been married for 12 years, guys. Like, yeah. It's official. I think they like each other at least. I believe they at least enjoy each other's company.

But over the years, like Roma is not the only person who felt that way. And I understand like being protective of her daughter. I'm not putting any blame on her. For sure. But other people are like, yeah, he only married her for her DNA. It's like, you don't even know these people.

I understand in like the beginning being like, I'm a little like suspicious about this. Yeah. But like, after 12 years, I think it's time to be like, all right. Yeah, I would think so. 12 years, a couple of kids, I think these kids might do something here. I would think so. But unfortunately, it just put a rift, and I'm sure it wasn't the only thing, but it put a rift in Roma and Rachel's relationship, and they actually don't speak anymore.

Oh, that's sad. I know. That's really sad. So, with all the talk of DNA and the air and being that technology had come a long way since 1948, when Samerton Man was originally found, the topic of exhuming his body started coming up more frequently among professionals who'd been with this case for a long time. But before they exhumed the body, though, they wanted to look at a simpler solution first. And as they were looking over the bust that was created way back when when they realized that there was still some hair stuck into the molding Oh wow and even though testing that hair would only give them like 2% of the DNA necessary to come up with like an entire profile So something they wanted to do something. It's a good start

So Abek got in touch with a scientist named Colleen Fitzpatrick to see if she could help in the process of looking into Rachel's DNA Find out what came from her mother and what came from her father and kind of separate those two things. So actually, Colleen Fitzpatrick has a very impressive resume. She was able to reunite a man who was suffering from a kneesha with his family through the use of DNA, and was also able to find out for a family that their relative had passed away on the Titanic. Wow. Like, just girls doing girl like things. Just girls doing things. Just fucking going on.

I love it. That's amazing. So Colleen's findings essentially linked Rachel's grandfather, maybe Sumerton man, to America. And more specifically, girl, the East Coast. Oh. Yes. We know about that. We do. We are East Coast. Oh, yes. We know about that.

We do, we are on that. We are currently. And she's out of her findings, quote, we see traces of Native American ancestry and chromosomes linked to relatives of Thomas Jefferson. Oh, what? Okay. And then said the Native American genes

tied to Somerton man also come from tribes living along the East Coast. This is so wild. It is so fucking fascinating. It is. She went on to say that puts Mr. X's ancestry with some authority in America. And that's they said Sumerton Man was likely from America. They did.

Now that doesn't mean that he is without a doubt from America with the East Coast. It just means that if he does turn out to be Rachel's biological grandfather, that he most likely is. Yeah. So Colleen told Buzzfeed News back in 2016, DNA is going to make the ultimate difference in this case. We're getting closer to an answer. Oh, we are getting closer to the answer.

So as far as pulling DNA from his hair, like when they did that, they really weren't able to find out too much, but they did find out that his mother was of European descent. Okay, but like they didn't get... I thought that's something though. Yes. So with all that science talk behind us, let's get into a little hot goss moment. I'm ready. Relating back to Joe.

I was craving some tea, I don't know. I got it right here. It's steaming. Thank you. Here you go. Wush. Wush. The sound that tea makes. Here you go. Oosh. Oosh. The sound that teammates.

What it smells. So back in 2013, this is wild. You're gonna be on the edge of your seat. 60 minutes, air to segment. 60 minutes, Australia. Air to segment about the summer to man. And the segment included Jo's biological daughter, Kate. Ooh.

Kate told 60 minutes that while she was still alive, her mother had definitely alluded to the fact that she knew the Somerton man, but that she would never come really right out and say it. She's the head, there was a lot growing up about her mom that was just very secretive. So secretive, that Kate very much believed that her mother had been a spy. You know, that was something that was in my head through part one. Yes. And then a ton of our patrons were like spies, spies, spies. I think we're all on the same page here.

I love it. Girl, we're going to get into that too. Let's go. I love this case. This case is so crazy. It's got everything. It has to be solved. I seriously have to. Well, we're gonna get there. I'm ready. Not solved. Okay. So, but she Kate shared a story about her mother teaching English to some students from Russia. Apparently, Joe

came home one day and she was talking about her day of teaching these kids English. And she was saying, Oh, it's so funny. I can still understand some Russian. So it's making it easier to teach these students. I still get what they're saying. And Kate was like, yeah, mom. And Kate's like, can we back it up a bit? Why the fuck do you know Russian? I was like, oh, mom.

Does it? Kate's actually just the meme of the guy sitting there with all the acquaintances. Just like to his head. Where did you learn to speak Russian? So she asks her that. And Joe's answer was, that's for me to know. She really was like, that's for me to know.

Oh, stop. Stop, Joe. Stop it. Stop or no, keep going, Joe. I know, honestly, keep going. We love a secret of stop. Don't stop. Love a secret of queen.

We love a secret of queen. Just like, so, Joe. So, Joe. So, Joe. So Joe. So Joe. So she also told Kate that during the original interview with police that she had lied to them, she was like, oh, she flat out, it was like, oh yeah, I lied to those people. Joe.

And she did know the man, she did know who the man was, but she wasn't planning on telling anyone, what the fuck, Joe? Now when Kate asked any follow-up questions, Joe does not have time for a follow-up question. No, her mom would not talk about it. And all she said was that there was like a, somebody at a level higher than police who knew what happened to the Samaritan man

and knew his identity. But it was like, like a maybe like an organization higher than the police. I need to know. Spies? Who are you? Who are you that knows it? Like, let us know right now.

Right down on a piece of paper. What? Stick in the book somewhere in a library. We'll find it. Write it down on a piece of paper like Suddrick did in her once. Yes. Somebody knows. Like, uh, Joe knows.

What? Joe knows. I just can't. So after that segment, a lot of people came to the conclusion that Jo might have been working as a spy. Oh, yeah, you think? Now it's been said over the years, actually, that she was a communist sympathizer, and maybe she was working on the side of Russia.

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with access to 24-7 personalized pet care and vet-recommended products. Damn. Can you fucking imagine the fact that like, like, I mean, I get like spies exist. Like how crazy, like it seems like just like LOL movies. Yeah, it seems like James Bond shit. It like 007, right? Yeah, you got it. You nailed it. That was so good.

Yeah, confidence. Like I was like, that's like 007. I feel like I don't know. Like I have no idea. But like, what? It sounds like she might have, and then to find out that your mom could have possibly been like, whoa. Yeah, it's just what?

Kate had a lot. Like that she was learning about her mama. Yeah, Kate got a lot dropped on her plate. She did. She did. Katelyn. She looked great. She looked great.

Kate. She seems like it's fate Kate. I hope you guys know what your mom knew who the summer chin men were, period. That was the face. There were also rumors that fueled the fire of people thinking that her son, Robin, may not have actually been from Prosper Thompson.

Apparently when he met Joe, so in the beginning I was like, well, Prosper might have been pissed if he found this out. Yeah. No, no. Apparently when he met Joe, he was actually still married, but going through a divorce. Harry area. I just said, you just snack yourself.

I just flicked my glasses almost off of my face. So excited that you flicked your glasses. Like, oh, and then it went quick. Sorry, guys. Did that hurt your finger? It didn't weigh that way. That wouldn't be fun. But I thought my glasses were going to go flying. Yeah. So we hurt your finger? It didn't. That wouldn't be fun. But I thought my glasses were going to go flying. Yeah, so we thought Prosper wasn't on this honey.

He was still married. He's gone through a divorce when he meets Joe. During that time, it's alleged that Joe was already pregnant, but with another man's child. Yeah. And an old friend remembered talking to Joe later in her life. And this friend said that Joe said she would always be thankful that Prosper had married her when she was pregnant and raised the child with her like it was his own.

Come on. I should have said like the child was his own. I don't know why I said that. Come on. It's all I know. I know. It's also been said that Jo and Prosper lied about the timeframe of their marriage. They were telling people that they were married before they actually were likely because Prosper was in the middle of getting divorced and Jo was pregnant, so like back then they would have had to have said that they were married. But still, it looked shady, like looking back on it today, and people started asking even more questions. Now in that segment with 60 minutes,

even Kate said the thought has crossed her mind that her mother, Joe, might have had something to do with Sumerton Man's death. Wow. Yeah, Kate. You're great, Kate. You are great, Kate. So interestingly enough, there was actually a second inquest into Summerton man's death about 10 years after he'd been discovered on the beach. And during that inquest, a man came forward and said that he had actually seen a well-dressed man on Summerton beach on the night of November 30th, but like way later in the night carrying another well-dressed man over his shoulder. Imagine just seeing that, two know. Two well dressed men.

Just on the beat. Being silly goofy, dude. It's just slaying another one over his shoulder. So could this have been prosper? Yeah. Taking care of a man who might become a problem and let out a lot of big secrets surrounding him and his new wife.

Yes, it could have been. This only led to more theories that maybe Samerton man really had been poisoned and that the reason there wasn't any vomit or sightings of him in convulsions was because one, the people who had seen him earlier, it wasn't actually him who they'd seen because he hadn't been placed on the beach yet, and two, he had actually been poisoned somewhere else and that's why all the vomit and whatever else wasn't there because it was where he had been poisoned

in the first place before he had been placed on the beach. Then once the poison took effect, the person then brought him to the beach to dump the body. I don't know why you would dump the body on the beach the way that it was found, but like maybe it was supposed to be like crazy. Yeah, like what's the word? A teblow. What's that? Like like setting it up. Oh, okay, You know. So this theory would cement Sir John Cleenlin's belief that Summerton Man hadn't walked along the beach for a very long time before ending up where he did. Those shiny shoes.

But there's obviously a lot wrong with this one too. First of all, why did the person who said that he saw all of this come forward 10 years later? Yeah, that's what I was wondering. I was like, that's not something I would just hold in. And if he was telling the truth, then why were these two sightings of the men, or excuse me, why were there two different sightings of a man on the beach beforehand who looked just like this guy? Yeah. It was like in a weird position, like clearly affected by something.

Out of that. And like, yeah. Now, one of the men who had seen Summerton Man while he was walking along the beach with his girlfriend, like how I opened up part one, he had actually gone back to the beach the next day for like an early morning swim. So he saw all the craziness of Sumerton Man's body being discovered and he knew like when 1000% with certainty that that was the same man. Yeah. So then this theory doesn't really line up. No, and it really doesn't.

To me, like it sounds like, whoa, no, be crazy. If it was just prosper, like, dump it his body, like, right. I think those people really did see him before that. But I think the theory of, like, him being Robin's dad is so strong, is like, true. Like, to me, that I'm like, yep, there it is. That's kind of how I feel too. So let's get into like a couple more theories that still relate around Joe and Jasper. So the thought that maybe Joe and Jasper had something to do with Summerton Man's death doesn't sound super far fetched to me with everything that we've learned either about Joe or with the things that have been like brought into question and have connections to her.

Yeah, it gets not that crazy. But if it is true that a man came knocking on her door toward the end of the year in 1948, knew her by name and was seemingly very intent on getting into contact with her, it's not crazy to think that that man was Sumerton man. No. For one thing, no one recognized him and for another thing,

Joe only lived, for remember, about five minutes away from where this man eventually ended up being found. Yeah? So maybe there is a world in which she really did find out the identity of the man who was knocking on her door and somehow got acquaintance with him, like found out who he was, you know. And when she realized that it was Samerton Man, she knew him because he was Robin's father and she realized that she was Samerton Man, she knew him because he was Robyn's father and she realized that she was on a pickle. Because if it was true that Samerton Man was Robyn's father

and he just showed up back up one day, Joe would have just been a little bit stressed out about it. Because Robyn at this point would have been about a year old and Joe and Prosper had been acting like they were already married. So obviously people would have assumed that Prosper was Robyn's father. 100%. Like I just said, Samerton Man showing up out of nowhere could have caused a lot of shit. already married. So obviously people would have assumed that prosper was Robyn's father.

100%. Like I just said, Somerton man showing up out of nowhere could have caused a lot of shit. Yeah. People would have found everything out about Joe and would have found out that it was all a lie. And let us not forget that we're talking about 1948 here. Exactly. Like that could. Unfortunately, most of these people would have labeled her a fluzie and she would have become the talk of the town. Oh, yeah It was all about reputation. So maybe she told him hit the road jack. Don't you come back? Imagine if that was actually his name, but in doing so maybe she broke his heart. That's his son Maybe you know, maybe that like he wants to be with her and she's like we can't like you can't lay You can't see me. You can't be a part of this life

Maybe that broke his heart and maybe he had brought along with him a copy of the Rubaiyat to reminisce with Joe about the time she had given it to him, because remember she had given a copy of it to Al Boxel and she herself described the book as a book of love poems. So maybe she was like in the habit of giving her love interest to the copy of the book. Maybe. It was like some kind of required reading for her man's is.

You never know. So when she turned down his advances, he was obviously like I said, heartbroken. Maybe he made his way down to the beach to end it all. Yeah. He ditched his wallet somewhere so that his true identity would never be known and he wouldn't mess up Joe's life and she wouldn't have to worry about finding out, or she wouldn't have to worry about anybody finding out that she was connected to him. Or so she thought, I was good as I didn't worry.

And then somehow he got his hands on some kind of poison, be it digitalist, or phantom, or whatever it ended up being, to end it all. But before doing so, he remembered that book of love poems ended with that beautiful Tom-Mom should like the end. And being the beautiful, deep man that he was, he ripped that part out, rolled it up in his pocket. This was his end too.

And as he laid down on the beach, maybe he smoked a cigarette that contained some kind of poison, and that was his end. Whoa, you know, what a fucking picture you just painted. Right? Oh, and I think I forgot a part, maybe on the way to the beach after he ripped out that page, that like portion of the page he tossed in in a car. Because remember, the people that found the copy of the rubia, they were not

far from Sumerton Beach and the copy had been thrown into the car. So maybe as he was walking by, he just tossed it in there. Oh, or maybe it was all the same except the part where it was his decision to end it all. Maybe after Samerton Man showed up at the house, Joe called to Prosper and told him that their cover was about to be blown soon, because Robbins' father had shown up on the front porch steps. Now obviously, Prosper would have known about Robbins' real father because he knew that he wasn't the father. He knew he didn't do that. He was like, I know what's going on here.

So they panicked and in their state of panic, maybe they devised a plan to get rid of the man. Joe was a trained nurse. She probably knew how to get her hands on poison. Yep. That wouldn't leave behind any traces. And somehow they got Summerton man to come inside. Maybe they said, like, oh, why don't you have dinner

with us tonight, snuck the poison into the food. They knew that it would induce some kind of vomiting, so they were prepared for that. And then once all the vomiting and the convulsing had stopped, Prosper got ready to take the man down to the beach and leave his body there. And while Prosper was getting ready to head out, Joe got her copy of the ruby hop that she still had, maybe. Yep. Put the rolled up piece of paper in her former love is pot, wow, I went really Boston there. Her former love is pocket.

Her former lover's pocket as one final token of their love for each other and as some kind of send off into the next life because remember that book is like, is what happens after you die? Like is there another life? Yada yada. Maybe she was the one to ditch the copy

into the man's car later, like just tossed it in there. And maybe Prosper was the man spotted carrying another man over his shoulder as he was dumping the body on the beach that night. And maybe that's how it all went down. Could be. I don't know. I don't really, I don't really lean

toward the particular theory that Joe killed him with Prosper or with anybody else because I think it would have been number one very spur of the moment to go off without a catch and like end up one of us as big as Mr. N.A. for sure. And then also there would have been a one year old in the house, so I would hope that all of this wouldn't go down. I knew that's what I was thinking too. I was like, hmm, that's a lot. And I feel like a neighbor would have seen a man go into the house. Yeah. Nobody said they did. And it's like that whole, like, Rubaiat thing, like they get Terry.

Hey, the Rubaitt's Harry in the scenario where Joe would have gotten rid of it. Like it doesn't feel so good. I can see it in the case of the Summerton man walking to the beach just ditching it. Yeah, kind of like a weird thing to throw into somebody's car, but I mean, that happened. So, yeah, I was gonna say it happened regardless.

Someone threw it in the car. So, I'm a little more on the side of Sumerton Man ending it all on his own volition because he had a broken heart between those theories. But if neither of those theories are for you, fret not because I have a couple more. Oh, so maybe Sumerton Man had absolutely nothing

to even do with Joe. No, no. And this whole thing is some kind of strange mixup. No. But people think so. Like people are like maybe me, didn't. So I'm not people. I'm not people.

So some people think maybe he was a spy, which was the reason why all the labels were turned out of his clothing and he had no identification. I mean, that's valid. Like I said in the beginning, you could find out where something had been made by the label. So like usually spies would rip the label.

So that makes sense. Yeah, makes sense. But maybe somehow he had blown his cover and he was taken out by other spies that were like above him or something. It would explain why the copy of the rubia associated with the man had a super intense code written inside the front cover. Like maybe it was some kind of spy code. I don't know. Maybe.

And why there were so many things within his suitcase that alluded to the fact that he was traveling and not actually from Australia. Mm. I love when you said like a spy above him because it just made me think that there's some kind of like supervisor spy. I feel like there is.

Or like manager spy. Yeah, like Glen the spy. So the regional manager spy. Yeah, like Glen the spy in HR. Yeah. Like I feel like that's how that goes. I think it is. I don't know how spies work because I'm not a spy. I don't know how spies work.

Wouldn't a spy say that? No, I'm just kidding. They would. I'm not a spy. Spy. Spy, say spy again. Spy. But giving credence to that theory

is that there were actually two spots in Australia where spies had been discovered, like pretty recently. The radium hill uranium mine and the, I'm gonna fuck this up and I'm really sorry, rumura test range. It was a research facility used by the military. Just a few months before Samerton Man was discovered on the beach, there was a Soviet spiring uncovered in South Australia's capital. Oh, was he part of it?

Maybe, maybe, maybe. And now I have that like, I'm an international super spy. Stuck in my head. Pigs. Do you not know what that is? Oh, it's a TikTok sound. I was like, yeah.

You haven't heard that? No, I don't get all the, you know, my free U-page is a very different page than yours. You do get the, my money don't you go to school? Oh, yeah. If you don't get that, you got to get that. We even are. You like find it so that you can have it.

It's so good. So the final theory that I want to talk about today because I think it's a pretty good one. And so does Professor Abbott. So like, hello on the same page. Is that Samerton man died of positional asphyxia or an underlying illness that they just didn't have the means to identify back then? Ah.

Because remember, when I initially described how Samaritan man was laying on the beach, I said that his head and his shoulders were propped against the wall, but that the rest of him was just kind of splaid out. So think about the way that he would have been positioned. Like even if you picture yourself lying down like this, your chin would kind of be tucked into your chest

a little bit, which would make it slightly hard to breathe. Yeah, infants can die that way. Infants die in a way. Car seats, you always make sure, oh, am I taking the next thing? Sorry. No, no, no, you're not at all. I didn't write that down.

I was just going to say it. That's like you never want to let your infants head roll forward in a car seat because they can or even your toddler like any one is gonna say really anybody or even like your partner falling asleep on a road trip. Yeah, just get their head up. Yeah, put your head up girl. Lift your head up.

Lift your head up. So, now that's like one kind of like sub theory within that. Now Derek Abbott also points out that Summerton man's organs were not in the best shape. So like I said in part one, his spleen was three times the size it should have been. His liver, kidneys, and stomach were all bloated like further than they should have been and all filled with blood.

And when Elena asked about his esophagus, I wasn't sure what the deal was in that. But in looking, I found out that he had a congested pharynx and that his esophagus, excuse me, his esophagus, was coated with a mucus and that there was a patch of ulceration toward the middle. Now, for the ulceration, he was a heavy smoker. I was going to have to say. So, I think that was what that was, but the congestion, maybe he was sick, maybe.

Now perhaps, he had been ill for quite some time, but like didn't actually know it yet. And it was just happenstance that his organs had finally had enough of whatever they were trying to fight off and gave out while he was laid out on the beach. And maybe that's why he was even on the beach in the first place because like, what the fuck was this well dressed man just doing lying on the beach?

He doesn't make a lot of sense. Maybe he had been like out and about, but all of a sudden he started feeling winded or sick and just decided to lay down on the beach for a second, smoke a siggy, and then maybe he died. I don't know. And perhaps while he was lying there, somebody stole his wallet,

and maybe the reason that the labels from his clothing were gone was because they had belonged to somebody else in the first place, so he just tore them out. I don't know, maybe. Which would also explain why the jacket that he had was from America. Maybe he also got that jacket from somebody else who got it there. And then when it became his, he was like, I'm not teakine. Or yeah, maybe when it became his, he like ripped the labels out, but like missed a couple because he wasn't teakine. and maybe T-Keen is the person that he got all the clothes from. But what about the thread?

Well, you found only an America. It was only an America. And it was in his suitcase. So scratching his pocket. That's true. That's the thing that like, can I at that thread that's only an America? And the stitches.

The stitches they've done in America. Yeah, so that was in his suitcase. So maybe he was wearing. So it was scratch all the last part of what I just said. Maybe he was visiting from America. And on the plane here, he got super sick. Maybe. And then just lost all his identification.

Just went just fell apart. And then he just lost everything. And he just lost it all. He just lost all his shit. But guess what? That was actually perfect timing, because the good news is that we might not have to wonder that much longer.

Hell yeah. December 10, man's body was finally exhumed back in May of 2021. Thanks to the Attorney General, Vicki Chapman's approval. Hell yeah, Vicki. And everybody who raised the funds to do so because apparently you too.

It's very expensive to exume the body Yeah, and apparently remember how I said that they like buried him in a spot where it would have been easier to get him It was not yeah, the best you know the best laid plans. Yeah, you know, you know But so Vicki the attorney general there she had actually studied this case while she was in law school Oh, damn so she it had been like something that had been talked about for years, exhuming his body, but the previous Attorney General just kind of like didn't do much with it. Yeah, just with it. Priority. But Vicki was like, oh, I'm interested in like, I think this is important. So let's go. Let's do it. Oh, that's cool. So she was, it was like something that fascinated her in law school. And she was like, oh, I have a chance

to actually make a difference in this. How cool is that? I agree. So because the body was initially embalmed, it has made the process a little bit harder. Lindsay Wilson Wilde, I believe is how you say this whole name, she works as director of forensic science South Australia, who is currently in possession of the body. What bad ass women have been here? I know. So much bad ass women.

And she said, quote, embalming chemicals are deserved to preserve remains. But they do that by breaking down the protein inside the body so that there's nothing available for bacteria to consume. It does have a very detrimental effect in degrading the DNA. But with that being said, the Embalming process back in the 40s and 50s is not as advanced not what it is today. It was not perfect by any means because like he was already decomposing when he was in the office. It should not be happening. Yeah. So I don't think it broke down everything. I don't think he was embalmed entirely the right way because it was so long ago.

So everybody is hopeful that some kind of DNA profile could be made with this with him being exhumed. And then we can use genealogy. And that's exactly what they want to do. So obviously it will take years, but it's already been one year since he's been exhumed. So we're that much closer. Guys, I admit it. I don't always make the best food choices, but like realistically who does, we all love a little chippy chip from time to time. We love a hamburger that was like deep fried and oil from time to time and we love a chicken nuggie.

But the CDC says put those down, they say, hey, hey you, you should eat up to six cups of fruit and vegetables a day. I'm sorry CDC. There is zero chance that I'm eating six cups of fruits and vegetables per day. Here's what I want. I'm going to tell you, I want a simple nutrition with results so powerful that when I take my next physical, my doctor compares my old lab work to my new lab work and says, keep on doing what you do and growl. And that's why I take field of greens daily. Field of greens is powered with a full spectrum of essential, vegetables and fruits plus science-backed herbs and prebiotics, which is exactly what I need to stay healthy. Field of greens works fast. And if you're like me, you'll have more energy, you'll feel healthier, your skin will look healthier and it may be able to help you lose some weight. Join me and take

field of greens too and to help you get started I got you 15% off your first order and another 10% off when you subscribe for recurring orders you're welcome. Visit fieldofgreens.com and use promo code morbid that's fieldofgreens.com promo code morb.com and use promo code morbid. That's fieldofgreens.com, promo code morbid, fields of greens, promo code morbid. Now, Derek Abbott says that he isn't holding his breath because he knows how long the process can take, but he also said, and I just love this. Whether he's related to one of us or not, we've kind of adopted him and to our family anyway, because it's him that brought us together. His cause of death isn't really what's of interest anymore.

It's more who he was and can we give him his name back. Oh, I love that. And then, with that being said, I just want to end it with another quote from the South Australia Police Detective Superintendent, Des Bray, who said, it's important for everybody to remember the Summerton man is not just a curiosity or a mystery to be solved. It's somebody's father, son, perhaps grandfather, uncle or brother, and that's why we're doing this and trying to identify him. Oh yeah.

And that's how I feel, and I can't wait to fucking find out that they have found out who Summerton Man was. I just need it to be Rachel's grandfather. I need it to be. But I'm not so sure anymore. Like, there's so much craziness going on. I don't know. I feel like he is Robin's dad.

I know, that's how I feel, too. I really feel that way. And by the way, just in case anybody's like, well, why didn't they compare his DNA to Robin? Robin was cremated. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was thinking that in my head, but then I assumed.

Yeah, he was. I meant to mention that earlier, but I was just fucking tight on the way at the shit. And I was like, put that back later. And then I didn't. But here I am putting it back. You put it back. You got there.

Wow. This is hands down one of my favorite cases that I've ever done. Killed them. Oh my gosh, thank you. You killed them. I'm honestly certain that there's probably something you could find cases that I've ever done. Killed them. Oh my gosh, thank you. Killed them. I'm honestly certain that there's probably something you could find out that I did not tell you

because this case is just like all over the place. I knew the basic of the case. Yeah. You took 90% of that. I had no fucking clue. I'm blushing. Seriously, I had no idea. Like all those theories, I'm like, well, fuck.

So many people have done such a good job like researching this case, like dark abbot, Jerry Feltis, Liz Wakeford. She has a two-part series on this, definitely go watch her when he knows. And again, I'm gonna link them, but so many people have done such a good job that it was intimidating going into this.

You could go like, I wanna help, but you did an amazing job. Thanks. You did amazing, sweetie. Thank you. But yeah, just, I want to know who he is. I know, I hope we find out who this man was. This is one that like if it breaks in the middle of the night, I'm going to call your ass.

Oh yeah. I don't care who we wake up in this house and we're coming in here and we're recording this. This is just one of those. We got to. Yeah. And I don't know, it has happened before where like, we do put out a case and we put out our manifestations

and hopes and it something happens. That's what happens. It's like we put out all this energy, I feel like. Yes. A lot of times something will turn. That's how I feel. So, positive energy, guys. We'll put it out there.

Manifest with us. Let's do it. Manifest destiny. Do it. And we hope you keep listening. We hope you. Keep it. Weird. But not so listening. We hope you keep it. Weird.

But not so weird that you're not as interested to find a whosoever. To man is a not so weird that you wouldn't wake Elena up in the middle of the night just to be like, Hey, we have to record this and give them an update because like holy shit, holy shit, holy shit, they found out who he was. They're gonna find out who he is. I can see it. I'm picturing it right now. Manifest.

I can see it. Manifest. I can see it manifest. Hahaha. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen ad free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. Hi, I'm Lindsay Graham, the host of Wondery's podcast American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in US history, presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our newest series, we look at the Kids for Cash Scandal, a story about corruption inside America's system of juvenile justice.

In Northeastern Pennsylvania, residents had begun noticing an alarming trend. Children were being sent away to jail in high numbers, and often for committing only minor offenses. The FBI began looking at two local judges, and when the full picture emerged, it made national headlines. The judges were earning a fortune, carrying out a brazen criminal scheme, one that would shatter the lives of countless children and force a heated debate about punishment, an America's criminal justice system. Follow American scandal wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the

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