Morbid - Episode 328: The Circleville Letter Writer

Episode Date: June 20, 2022

The Circleville Letter writer is a case that will absolutely baffle your brain. In 1976 one of the first letters was delivered to Mary Gillespie and it accused her of being one of the many women supposedly having an affair with the superintendent of schools, Gordon Massie. The letters would continue to be sent, not only to Mary, but to most of the residents and business owners in the town. The letter writer seemed to know everything about everyone and would stop at nothing to take down the people they thought were morally wrong…. As if sending intimidating letters across a city is a moral thing to do. By the end of this a possibly innocent man would be sent to prison, another man would end up dead and Mary would survive an attempt on her life. As always thank you to our sponsors:Rothys: Discover the versatile styles you can wear absolutely anywhere and get $20 off your first purchase at rothys.com/MORBIDBabbel: Right now, save up to 60% off your subscription when you go toBABBEL.com/MORBIDHunter Douglas: VisitHunterDouglas.com/ morbid today for your freeStyleGets Smarter design guide with fresh takes, creative ideas and smart solutions for dressing your windows.Audible: Visit Audible.com/MORBID or text MORBID to 500-500Simplisafe: You can customize the perfect system for your home in just a few minutes at SIMPLISAFE.com/morbid.Go today and claim a free indoor security camera plus 20% off with Interactive MonitoringSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash and I'm Alena. And this is morbid. It's more bent. It is. It's more bent in the afternoon. It's always going to be. Always has been. Uh, yeah. I was trying to come up with that, like, Wilfred would be that bitch thing, but I think I've been saying that a lot lately

and it just didn't enter my brain. It's okay. We didn't get coffee today. We did not. We're in the afternoon right now. It's just like a weird time to record. We usually don't record in like the early afternoon. No, it's usually like in the actual morning when we've each had a hot coffee and then we go get our ice together. Yep. And we didn't go get our ice together.

We did not. And that's how our morning went, guys. Throw in the day off. But you know what, we're feeling good this week because we didn't want to give you guys a lag when we were transitioning over to the Wunderly platform. So we ended up doing, it got so confusing for us which episodes were coming out when.

I think we were parted. But it had been four episodes the first week and then I think last week we did six. Yeah, it was like, we overshot it, which I guess is good. Yeah, but it was so chaotic in both of us, we're so stressed out. Oh my God. But it was like so chaotic in both of us. We're so stressed out. Oh my God. But it happened.

Like we were able to get them out, which is great. Cause we just like our biggest thing was we told you you weren't getting a leg between the weeks. And we did not want to like fuck that up. No. So we feel good that we did not. Hopefully you guys like felt like everything was good with that. And we feel good

today. We do. We're like, we're on a schedule now. That's the thing. It feels good. I thrive on a schedule, but I never realized that until I'm on a schedule. And I can look back at chaotic. Gosh, I'd be like, girl, just get you a schedule. What are you doing? Oh my gosh, come over here. What are you doing over there? Come sit down and schedule things. That's, and that's where we are right now. I love a schedule in a deadline, but it has, we've just been a, We've just, we've been a machine of chaos for like four years.

So it's really good that we're here and we're on a schedule. It feels good. It's gonna stay that way. So hopefully it makes all of your lives easier too, because you just know when to expect and what to expect, and that's all anybody can ask for, you know? Yeah, we're all just falling around doing our best. Well, I'll just fucking start us.

Yeah, so everybody just be fucking nice to each other. Yeah, is that so hard? Nothing matters. So, what's the TikTok thing that's like, why you work in so hard. The world is ending. That was stuck in my head all last week. And I literally was like, you are working so hard and the world is ending.

Yeah. So what are you doing, girl? And I also had that TikTok sound stuck in my, which I think was the universe or my brain trying to go into like self preservation mode because I was really stressed out. And all of a sudden my head started doing the TikTok song that was bitch you doing a good job bitch you doing a good job and I was like thank you and random rain you would just sing it out loud

And I was like I thought you were saying to me and I was like thank you you're singing to each other Yeah, I think it's like you know everybody everybody's just you know, we're all going through it together So I think everybody could stand, you know, everybody's just, you know, we're all going through it together. So I think everybody could stand to be kind to each other as long as I'm saying. Like on TikTok, I have like so many favorite creators and every now and then they'll post a video just like so down in the dumps and like talking about,

yeah, crying, like talking about just the hate that they receive and I'm like, I don't, you do not deserve that. Like, and just nobody does. Nobody does. It does. And it's like, oh don't, you do not deserve that. No, I'm really not. Nobody does. It's like, oh. It's a lot of really shitty energy that's being, which I guess is only going to affect the people doing it, really.

Like that energy's only going to shit all over your karmic bank there. Take it from Elise Meyers, just don't receive it. That's my TikTok. Wee. Yeah, I think we mentioned her a lot. A lot. But guys, go follow her my TikTok. Caw. Wee. Yeah, I think we mentioned her a lot. A lot. But guys, go follow her on TikTok. Especially if you need a boost of Saratone,

which I think everybody does right now. Oh, yeah. If you take a little dip into the internet, you can, everybody needs a boost of Saratone. If you just turn on the news. Turn on the news. Go on the internet. Go outside.

You might need some Saratone. You know what's weird, though? I've noticed, and we'll get into it, don't worry. But I just, we're here. We're here. Just wanted to share weird though, I've noticed, and like we'll get into it, don't worry, but I just, I'm working here. Just wanted to share a little, you're doing great. Everybody's doing great, you're doing the best you can. Fuck yeah.

Don't let anyone tell you you're not doing enough or you're not doing the best that you can. You're doing fucking great, okay? Yeah, and why are you working so hard? The most ending. But what I've noticed is people have been, like in real life, like outside in the world People have like are like so nicely. I feel like I've seen a lot of better. Oh, yeah

People are people are great. Oh in the world. Yeah, it's really so I think like social media and stuff will give everybody kind of like a Escued really toxic view of everything but like go out and I you like chit chat with people you'll be like, oh, okay This is what it does everything is all right. Yeah, it's like that. It's that really focused shit view that the internet will give you that can make you feel like shit But yeah, but and again, this is like for everybody because I just keep seeing like other creators and like and just people in general like having really bad experiences and I feel bad, it just sucks. It does, yeah. Just like hug someone you love. Yeah, tell somebody that they're doing a great job.

Tell somebody you like they're outfit. And we're not talking about us, tell somebody like anybody that they're doing a great job. Tell somebody at the gas station. Tell a mom or a dad. You know what, too, you always laugh at me waving at somebody and smiling at them can change their entire fucking day. I really can't.

It's true. Or like tip extra if you're able to, like first service person. Yeah. You just happen to have a week where you have the extra and you're like, you know what, this person did a great job and I'm just gonna make their day. Yeah.

So yeah, that was like a beautiful beginning about like giving back to your community and being kind to one another. And like not spreading vicious rumors about people. It's, it's dovetails right nicely into what you're about to talk about, I think. Yeah, if any of you know about the Circleville letter writer, you're like, wow, what an intro to that episode

because that is the complete opposite of what was going down in Ohio. That's what we're going for. Exactly what we're going for. A little, I don't even know. A little, you know. Yeah, a little, just like what you get in. You know, you get it.

You get it, because you're doing a great job. You love doing a good job. You are. All right, so let's get into it. Let's talk about Circleville, Ohio. Let's talk about it. It is a city in Ohio, and it's about 20 miles south of Columbus, Ohio. You're going to be stoked about this, and I'm sure we'll probably end up going.

One of the things that it's most known for other than being one of the safest places to live in the US is a pumpkin festival called The Pumpkin Show. Fuck yeah. It started in 1903, and it still goes on to this day. Hell yeah, Ohio. Yes, it is amazing. And you said that too soon because get this. It's said to attract people from all over the place.

And usually there's more than 300,000 people in attendance. Wow, that is a pumpkin festival. Yeah, 300,000 people in attendance, a much bigger number than the actual population, which today is a little more than 14,000. Oh, wow. Back in the 70s, the population was about 11,000 people. And the reason that I point to the 70s is because

that's when all the events went down that we're about to talk about. Oh boy, but because I am who I am, we're starting in the middle of all this craziness. So we're going to start on the night of August 19th, 1977. A 35 year old man named Ron Gallipsey was found dead, not too far from he and his wife, Circleville Home. He had crashed his truck and because he wasn't wearing his seatbelt, he was ejected from the car and most likely died from the impact of his body hitting the large tree that he had crashed into. Now when the police got to the scene, they discovered that he had a

gun tucked under his body and they were able to determine that one shot had been fired from this gun. Interesting. Now when the coroner was able to take a look at Ron's body, he discovered that his blood alcohol content was 0.16. Oh, wow. That's like almost twice full of the limit. So the death was quickly ruled an accidental death due to driving under the influence. Now, this was like really shocking

to everybody that knew Ron personally, because everybody said he was not a big drinker at all. Like he barely had a drink, and they were surprised that he would have had that many drinks first of all, but also that he would have gotten into a car that had cared. Like they were like, that just doesn't add up.

And other people simply just did not buy the story that this is how he died. They were like, no, there's no way he was that drunk. Like, this is something fishy here. A lot of people thought that some kind of cover-up was a foot. Now, the thing is, at the time of the crash, Ron was undergoing what was probably the most stressful time in his entire life. Oh, and it had all started about a year earlier when his wife Mary received a letter in the mail. Now this letter would be the first of many from an anonymous source that seemed to have the inside scoop on

literally everybody living in Circleville. Geez. This letter writer just happened to be particularly focused on Mary and her family and a couple other people in town that she was connected to. But there were plenty of letters sent around to different businesses, higher ups in the school community, the town sheriff, like everybody was getting letters, but a lot of the letters focused on Mary Glypsy. So this is like a really shitty lady whistle down. I can't believe you said that because I was gonna put it in here a later.

But you know what? I should have put it in here a leader. But you know what? I should have put it in here earlier. Because I should have known you were gonna say that also. Side note, I just found out who Lady Whistle down was last night. And what the fuck? Yeah, watch Projecton, but anyways. Have you ever seen somebody wearing a colorful pair of flats and you thought to yourself, oh my god, where did you get those?

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But your new favorite shoes are waiting. Discover the versatile styles you can wear absolutely anywhere and get $20 off your first purchase at Rothies.com slash morbid. That is our OTHYS.com slash morbid for $20 off your first order. So the first letter that Mary received came sometime around 1976, and it read, Stay away from Massey, who was the superintendent of the school at the time. Don't lie when questioned about knowing him. I know where you live. I've been observing your house and I know you have children.

This is no joke. Please take it serious. Horrible grammar. That's a really fucked up. Everyone concerned has been notified and everything will be over soon. My God. Like how creepy is that?

That's terrifying. I know you have kids. I've been watching your house like stay away from the super-intensive schools because I know what's going on. Now like I said, other residents in the town were getting the same letters. And these letters were saying that super-intending Gordon

Massey was having all sorts of extramarital affairs with married women, or making the bus drivers in the town feel super uncomfortable with his unwanted advances. Ew. Yeah. So at first, you're like, okay, this letter writer is like vigilante. Vigilante right here, but it gets not great real quick.

Okay. So the letter writer threatened that if their warnings were not heated, then people were going to be sorry. They wrote, you have been watched, failure to comply and you shall suffer. No one can help, no one can protect you. Obey, obey. Also, what like over the top,

the way they're talking, it's like, oh, okay, like you shall suffer. Like, okay. It's so performative. We get it. It really is. Now the weird thing was that all of the letters were postmarked from Columbus, Ohio,

but none of them had any return address, obviously. But it's like they're all coming from one place. Now, they also all seem to be written by the same person, because they all shared the same style of writing. Now, for one thing, all of the writing was in this like big block lettering, and this person really loved to use a colon like all over the damn place.

For the rest of the letters, I'll tell you where the colon is. I love a colon. They also seem to use incorrect grammar from time to time throughout their writings, but the investigators weren't sure if this was on purpose. Like somebody trying to come off less educated than they were. Or if this genuinely was just tap his presser knew how to write.

Yeah. So who was Mary Glypsy? Who? She had met her husband Ron while they were in high school. They were high school sweethearts. A adorable. And obviously their relationship continued well after that. By the time the letter started, Mary and Ron had been married for quite some time.

They had two daughters together. Now interestingly enough, she herself was a school bus driver. And like I said, throughout the letter writing time period, even though the letter writer knew shit about other people, Mary was the main target. The letter writer was insistent that she needed to end her affair with the married school superintendent or things were going to get bad. Now if you thought that the first letter was really creepy, more just kept on coming. One of the second letters read, quote,

lady, colon. This is your last chance to report him, colon. I know you are a pig and will prove it and shame you out of Ohio, colon. A pig sneaks around and meets other women's husbands behind their backs, causes families and homes and marriages to suffer colon. And then it trails off. But like, that's a lot of colon. And then it like trails off.

But like, that's a lot of colon. That's a lot of weird colons, man. You're not introducing any list. You're not joining any sentences. Like you are not hooked on phonics. I do. What is going on? Calm down.

Now, this time, the letter writer warned that if she didn't tell her husband, Ron, the truth about her affair, then they were going to do it for her. So Mary at first tried to keep the letters to herself. She was like, I don't really want to bring these to Ron's attention because I don't know, maybe a little stop. Maybe this person would get bored.

And she was adamant though through the entire saga that she and Gordon Massey were not having an affair. So she probably also was like, why am I going to upset my husband when it didn't even true? Yeah. Now eventually though, since they were always lurking around somewhere, the letter writer sent a letter to her husband, Ron. And he informed him, like I said, he was going to, about Mary's supposed affair.

Now the letter writer took things a step further this time though, and told Ron, you should catch them together and kill them both. That escalated quickly. Real quick. Jesus. So when Ron brought things to Mary's attention, she, like I said, vehemently denied having any affair, and she told Ron, she was like, I just thought they were going to go away, but clearly this person is unhinged.

Yeah. Now, she could not have been more off with her assumption that these letters are just going to go away, because not long after Ron got his first letter, another one came addressed to him specifically. This one said, Galipsey, you had two weeks and done nothing. Make her admit the truth and inform the school board.

If not, I will broadcast it on CB's, posters, signs, and billboards until the truth comes out. Also, like, why? Why do you care so much? Here's the thing. And invested in other people's business. Like, they know. Right. Like, what's your problem?

Get a hobby. My first thought hearing all of this, I was like, okay, is this his wife? Well, that's what I would initially think. You can't find anything about, like, his wife, wife like if she was spoken to or anything and that's that's honestly the only person who it would make any sense for anything like this to come from because it's like okay why do you care? Like get out get out of people's business go right go do something but that's the thing and Mary like I've said like 25 times she was the main target but they were also writing to other people about like different affairs that other people were having.

So this is just like a crusader of like, of Monocamy. It really is. But they were also sending people of morality, to be honest. Oh, yeah. Because they were sending like business owners things being like, your business is corrupt and like fuck you, blah, blah blah blah.

Like I'm gonna tell everybody not to shop at your store. Yeah, it's always, it's the morality police that are always the worst ones. Truly. So at this point, the couple obviously is trying to figure out who the fuck is messing with them. And they had also been talking about the letters with some of their close friends and family members. Now specifically, Ron sister Karen, her husband Paul and Paul sister. Okay. So one night, Mary and Ron hosted the trio who knew about what they were dealing with, and these were the only people who knew. And Mary dropped a possible suspect's name.

She said, I think this could be David Longberry. That's what I thought. I thought the same thing the entire time. I was like, it's David Longberry. I just had like a psychic moment and DL was up in my forefront, though. Yes. We all know David Longberry. You know what? We all do know David Longberry. Do we?

David Longberry was a fellow bus driver who Mary obviously had met through work. And when they first started working together, he was super flirty and he asked Mary out on a date and she said, I'm married, I got kids. No thanks, but how sweet of I got kids, no thanks, but how sweet of you. Now she felt like ever since she turned him down,

he was acting like super weird toward her, kind of just like pissed off that she hadn't said yes to the date. He gave her like a weird feeling whenever she was around him. So we do all know Dave and Longberry. Absolutely. Have you ever declined somebody's date and then like you know exactly what I'm talking about right now?

Of course. It's your fault. It is. It's nothing to do with that. Or the fact that you're married with children. No. Now, the letter writer definitely did seem like they were out for some kind of revenge

against Mary particularly. So I don't blame her for thinking that it could be this man she turned. Yeah. So that night, Mary brings up day that's a name to everybody. And everybody at the house decides they should write him a couple of letters of their own,

just saying the jig is up, we know who you are, that we demand that this stops, like enough is enough. Yeah. So they send out their own letters, I think they sent out like four or five. And the letters actually seem to stop for a couple of weeks. Huh, yeah. So they definitely thought that they had the right guy.

But unfortunately, at this point, things escalated. The letters may have stopped momentarily, but now there were random signs popping up all around town. Oh, damn. Now these signs were heavily focused on super-intendant Massey, but they were also making incredibly damning accusations that involved Mary and Ron's 12-year-old daughter. Yeah. Are you kidding me?

No, and I'm gonna put a trigger warning in here because just a trigger warning about, like, sexual nastiness, like this is horrific. Oh, God. So the signs were saying that the daughter and the superintendent were involved in a quote-unquote sexual relationship. Jesus.

But if we're talking about a grown-ass man and 12-year-old here, I for damn sure would not be calling that a sexual relationship, instead calling what he is right on the sign that what's true, that he's a damn pedophile. Yeah, and also how fucking dare you name that child? Serious. How fucking dare you? Serious. Parallelity, my ass. Oh name that child? Serious. How fucking dare you? Serious. Morality, my ass. Oh, and it only gets worse.

You want to name him if that's the truth? By all means. Absolutely. What the fuck is wrong with you? Seriously. In this case, it's not even creating. Now, in addition to the signs, Mary was still getting more letters

that threatened her daughter's safety. Jesus. One written to her said, it's your daughter's turn to pay for what you've done. I will come out there and put a bullet in that little girl's head. I have goosebumps reading that. No, I was just gonna say that just made my heart drop.

And can you imagine being a mother and receiving that letter? No, I can't and I won't. No, like don't imagine that. Because that is a, but what? Can you imagine the kind of monster that has to, you have to be to write those words on paper? I truly can't even because I hope

that I've never met anybody capable of that in my life. Or even know about anybody. That's horrific. This is just like the most precious thing ever and it ruins you because obviously we know that Ron has passed away. While the signs were being posted up around town, he would get up early every single morning

and go along the route that they usually popped up on and just like everywhere around town in hopes to get them all out of the ground before people in the town woke up and started going to work. Oh my God. Because he was like, my family's name is just being tired.

Yeah. I need to get this out of here. That's horrible. I'm surprised that he didn't die of a heart attack to me. Yes. Like, I would have lost my mind. Now, let's go back to where we started this entire thing. Friday, August 19th, 1977. This is the night that Ron has found dead in his truck with one bullet having been fired

from his 22 caliber gun. So Mary was away in Florida that weekend with Ron's sister Karen. Now, before Ron hopped in his truck that evening, he got a phone call. So obviously at this point, people are saying this is the letter writer. Yeah, and we pretty much know for sure. So after Ron got off the phone, he told his daughter,

the one who had become the target of all the signs around town, that he was ready to settle this thing once and for all. Hugged her goodbye, grabbed his gun, hopped in his truck to track down, whoever he thought this must have been. I'm not sure whether he thought it was still David Longberry or not.

If that's still the guy that I was looking for. And you know what's frustrating about this is like it was in the 70s. So it's like, it could happen now. One you could trace a phone call and two, this camera's everywhere. Oh yeah. You would catch this fucker in a second. Exactly. Because you can't just be posting shit around.

You're gonna get caught on camera. Well, and that's the thing too. Like the police were working with the US Postal Service and all this stuff. And they couldn't figure it out. Yeah. And it's like now this would not be able to really happen. No, definitely not.

It is weird to me even back then that this could happen because it wasn't that long ago. No, it really wasn't. The police working with the USPS, you would think that they would be able to, I mean, I know that case though. The case you just covered, they just like fucking went to the post office,

but that's because it was the only post office. It literally was. They were like, here's the one post office in the entire county. But wouldn't you think that like you could just like stake out post office locations in Columbus, Ohio? I guess. And like, I don't know, lock up the mail.

Yeah. I don't know. It's difficult. But it's weird because we're going to get into it later. But some people think that like this was covered up in a weird way. Oh, okay. That there was weird going on.

This conspiracy theories. Yes. So who knows who he thinks this is, but he's ready to end it all for this person. Yeah. Now it's important to note here that the letter writer had previously written to Ron that his red and white pickup truck was being watched.

So it's possible that they knew Ron was coming for them if they were sitting there watching it. But at the same time, they may not have known because who knows where they are, they just called. And we don't know what was said on the phone call. Which is so frustrating. I want to know. I do too.

Now another important note is that the kids did not seem to think that Ron was drunk when he left the house. Okay. And when Sheriff Radcliffe first heard of Ron's accident, he already had a suspect in mind. That suspect's name has never been released, but they did pass a polygraph, and the sheriff changed his mind pretty much as soon as they passed that polygraph and said, you know what,

I don't even think foul play was involved here, it was an accident. So like, immediately upon hearing that wrong was dead, he had somebody in mind, but then was like, no, no, never mind, they passed polygraphs. I'm not gonna talk to polygraphs. That this was an accident. Yeah, that makes sense. then was like, no, no, never mind. They passed by. That's possible. That this was an accident.

Yeah, that makes sense. It's like, wouldn't you think it was an accident when you first ran out there? And it's like, if you have someone in mind for that, that's a problem that that person's just walking around to like just living their lives. And it's like, why would you think they would do something like that?

What kind of person are they? Yeah, who knows? That's weird. It's very weird. Just like changing your mind so quickly about that, it doesn't make any sense to me. Now in the beginning of this whole thing, I told you that a ton of people around town

were not so sure that this was an accident. Now the main question on their minds was who did Ron fire his gun at? Yeah. Because he had fired his gun along that way, and he hadn't been driving for very long. He wasn't very far from his house. Now secondly, why was he so drunk for somebody who barely drank?

That didn't make sense to them. I will say I would be craving a stiff drink or four if this was what my family was going to do. Yeah, I get that. But I don't know. It's weird. And finally, he crashed after going through an intersection that he went through all the time, which was weird. They did say that the car was traveling at like a very fast race.

And if he was angry and upset, I mean, how quickly we know how quickly things can happen. So I don't know. I feel like certain things could be explained away, but other things are definitely strange. Yeah. away, but other things are definitely strange. For all your summer travels, whether you're going abroad or you're staying domestic and want to immerse yourself in another culture, now it's the perfect time to start Babel.

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but the way in which the two people involved explain the circumstances just might blow your mind. Okay. So shortly after Ron's death, Mary Glypsy and the superintendent there, Gordon Massey, went public with their relationship. Oh, the catch though. They maintained that they had not been involved

during a relationship relationship in a relationship During the time that Mary was with Ron, but instead got together afterwards Okay, do you think that we're dumb or do you think that we're stupid? I can not even I'm over here. Yeah, I don't know about that. There's that so years years go. And after Ron's death and these letters don't stop and neither have the signs, they're all, everything is everywhere all the time. That is chaos. Pure chaos. And the letter writer, sign poster person, is getting more and more clever with their

mind games. Now they're posting all kinds of signs along Mary's bus route about her daughter because remember she's a bus driver. And they know her bus route, which is interesting to me. Now they're posting them about her daughter, they're posting them about the sheriff and like all the shit he's involved with. They're saying different stuff about the coroner who ruled the death and accident. Oh, they're saying stuff about the superintendent, just all kinds of gossip posted along Mary's route. Damn. So one day, February 7, 1983, Mary has had enough of this shit.

And she approaches a sign that says something horrible about her young daughter. I'm not repeating it. Thank you for not telling me. You can look it up if you want to, but that's for you to do and not for me to tell you. I'm good. It's horrific. And it was a big sign that said something. And then all along the post where they stuck it

into the ground, it had the same lettering and said all kinds of different stuff. So this person is unhidden. Yeah, I mean, we're in the same place. But it's like, on a galactic level. And to do this, this long, it's like, damn, I know. So she slams on her brakes. She marches over to the obscene sign,

and she tears it down. Now, as she's her brakes, she marches over to the obscene sign and she tears it down. Now as she's doing so, she realizes that there's some kind of box attached to the back of the sign and that it's been tied on with some kind of twine. So she just rips the whole thing down, sign it all and takes it back to the bus. The bus was empty, there was no kids in it, but just imagine if you were on this bus, you'd be like, what the fuck? Little kid me loved this shit. I would have been like so ready to soak this tea on. I would have been like on my hairy at the spy type shit.

Oh yeah. So she can't get the box open when she's on the bus, so she brings it home. She brings it home, she's still having trouble because it's sealed with some kind of glue that is impossible to get through, but finally she gets it open. And when she does inside the box,

she sees that there's a gun. And the twine was wrapped around the trigger. So this was a booby trap. It was supposed to go off. She did. I, you know, when you said like she took it back home and she was opening it, I was like, don't open that.

Bring that to the police. Yes. Just a note here, if this ever happens to you, don't open that, bring that to the police. Yes, just a note here, if this ever happens to you, don't open anything right to the police. Because I was like, I don't know what's in there. Like, something's coming out of there. Something terrible. There's no way they're just leaving you something.

It's like, no, this is gonna be bad. This is not a present. So immediately, she hops in the car, gun-filled box alongside her, and straight to the police station. Now at the station, the officers are like, yeah, this is some kind of like intricate but horribly set up booby trap that was basically supposed to go off as she was pulling the sign down. The string was kind of maneuvered around the trigger

so that if she had pulled it down it would have gone off. And it was right about like her upper chest head area so she would have been killed instantly. Holy shit. And he put it on like the most obscene sign so he knew it would probably be the one that would make her rip it down. And it was probably like toward the end of her bus route as well because there was all these signs leading up to it so it's just this like epic build up.

Oh my god, this is horrific. Just the fact that this is a real story. Like I kept having this way, like that's really. That's the thing, like I was like researching this a ton, and just I kept having to remind myself, like this isn't a book or a movie, like this is a real life-true crime case. Like this is one of the craziest ones we've done.

Oh, wait. It reminded me of the watcher house, but like on another level. Yeah. So, yeah, the fact that the gun didn't go off is absolutely miraculous. Like, can you imagine? Yeah.

So another lucky moment came when investigators started examining the 25 caliber handgun. It was sent away to a forensics lab because although the serial number had been somewhat filed off, the police were pretty confident that whoever had tried to do so had done a shit job, and they were going to be able to lift the number. And they were. Of course.

When they did determine the serial number and plugged it into the gun database. The gun database? You know, that database. It came back registered to a man who worked with another man that Mary knew quite well. Do you have any guesses? Okay, so it must be a man who works with Massey there? No, no. The gun was registered to a work friend of one Paul Freshauer. I wouldn't have.

Yeah, you never got that. I was going to say I just don't know. I was like, wait, did I miss something? We know Paul. Mary's former brother-in-law. Oh. He was there the night that everybody was writing those letters. Oh, yes. Okay. Okay. So I did. So the man who worked with Paul, he said that he sold Paul to get a while back.

Now, by this point, Paul and Ron Sister Karen, some of the people who knew about the note, they had gone through a nasty divorce. Oh. Karen had allegedly cheated on Paul, and in the divorce she lost like everything. Paul was awarded full custody of the three kids and got to keep the house. Whoa. Now, these days Karen was living in a trailer and Mary's backyard. And when the police questioned Karen, she confirmed what they suspected was true.

It had been Paul all along. What? She told them that the reason why they were divorced, like part of it was because he had been abusive toward her. And also that the letter writing had taken a toll on their marriage. Uh, yeah. It would do that. It would. Now remember, her brother died. Ron is her brother. What? So she told them that she'd found one letter ripped up in their toilet. And when she tried to piece it back together again,

all she could make out was the name Galipsey. Now, once she found that letter, she obviously starts snooping around the house trying to find more. And sure enough, she finds what she's looking for. The only problem with that though was that when the police asked her if she could hand over one of the letters, she told them that she was not going to be able to because she had gotten rid of them once she found them.

Oh, sus. A little bit. Now, something she stressed to the police was how much Paul's view of Mary had changed once Ron passed away and Mary started dating super-intended Massey. Karen said that before Ron passed away, and Mary started dating, super-intended, messy. Karen said that before Ron had passed, Paul really idolized this couple, but that once Ron passed away, the views seemed to shatter.

Now in my opinion, this was Karen's way of emphasizing to the police how things had escalated to this point of wanting to kill Mary. Yeah. Now when the police went out to talk to Paul, he was fucking shocked, but he was also extremely cooperative. He explained to them that his gun had actually been stolen in the week's prior to the attempted murder, and that he had absolutely nothing to do with said attempted murder. So he let the police search his home in his car, and neither searched really turned up any kind of anything, no letter, no damning up evidence.

But there were some things for Paul that did not look so great. He had taken off work on February 7th, the same day that Mary found the booby trap. He said that he had a solid reason for taking the day off. He was having some work done to his house, and he needed to be there for it. And his neighbors were willing to confirm his alibi. But that was not the only whammy against Paul. The box that this that his gun was found in was a box that he would have had easy access to at his job. It was this large box used to hold like a shit ton of chalk, but they were often used in his building. He worked as a quality control supervisor at a brewery in Columbus. Oh, also meaning he could have been the letter writer because one, his job was like not incredibly demanding. He could have written

the letters at night and then leading right into point two, he could have mailed them out in the morning when he got to work, which would explain why the letters were coming from Columbus in the first place. One of the final whammy's came when he failed to polygraph. On top of everything else, though, it's like, I right. Yeah, it's a little weird when it's on top of everything else. Paired with everything else, it's weird. Yeah, it's a hot dog in a trench coat, but it's still compelling at the end when you put it against all the other things. I agree. So there were people in Circleville

who felt a little bit of ease when Paul was arrested, of course. But other people were downright pissed and they were like, no, no, no, no, no, the cops have the wrong guy. That's not Paul at all. Yeah. He had always thought that his brother and LaRan

had been murdered. And he actually spoke with the sheriff, Sheriff Radcliffe, on multiple occasions, begging him to take a closer look at the case. Okay. Why would he be urging the sheriff to look into this case if he was the mastermind behind the entire ordeal? The only thing I'll say about that to be devil's advocate here

is if you are the circleville letter writer, you are the tension. And you are also completely bonkers. Like there is no hinges anywhere. You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- You are- of possibly murdering people, wouldn't really think twice about being like, oh, I'm just going to pretend that I'm really invested in this and like beg them to open up the investigation because he probably doesn't give a shit. Right. That's true. He's gone. And to another galaxy.

It's interesting that you say that though, because a lot of people were like this, like you were just saying, like the circle of a letter, I don't want attention. It doesn't matter at what cost. Paul was not that kind of person. And they were like, it, like like, but this is like alter ego, it could be, I don't know. So some people thought that Karen was involved and that this was some kind of setup

because she was so pissed after the divorce because she had lost literally everything. That could be it too. Now before the case even went to trial, a woman came forward to the police with information that seemed to clear Paul's name at least a little bit. She was also a bus driver, and she had been traveling down

Mary Gillespie's route about 20 minutes before Mary would have come along. This woman said that she saw a sandy haired man standing in the same spot where the booby trap was found. But that as she was driving by, the man turned away from her as if he was going to use like the great outdoors as his own personal restroom. So she didn't get a good look at his face. But she did describe the man in addition to having sandy hair as a big man. And she also mentioned that he had been standing alongside a yellow alcanino.

Now, neither physical description matched Paul. He had like super dark hair, and he was smaller in stature. But they would describe another man that Karen was connected to. Her new boyfriend. Oh, who was a large man with sandy hair? Oh.

Also of note, Karen's brother drove a yellow alcanino. Oh, circumstantial, but strange nonetheless. Compelling. Now for some reason, this information was never brought forth at Paul's trial. Okay, what the fuck? There was an entire police report about this and it was never brought forth in this trial. Especially the yellow alchemyna. Like, I feel like that's a pretty, I mean, I don't know, in the 70s,

maybe yellow El Caminos were more prevalent. They sound like they would be too honest. They feel like they would be, but I'm like, were they that prevalent? I don't know. Well, in the fact that it's matching the description of two people in her life, like, and she has a lot of motivation.

She does. I don't really know what the motivation would have been for Paul to write these letters. Weirdly the way that one of the first ones that you read sounded, I immediately thought it was a woman. Me too. So that's interesting too. And you know what, you're a smart gal

because an FBI profiler might have the same opinion as you. Okay, cool, because that was my first thought. Because, and we'll get into it, I think it's a woman, personally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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I used to be such an avid reader, but guess what that is exactly why I love Audible because now I can be an avid reader But not set aside to poop ton of time sitting down on my couch Audible offers an incredible selection of audiobooks across every genre, from best sellers and new releases to celebrity memoirs, mysteries and thrillers, motivation, wellness, business and more. You'll discover exclusive Audible originals from top celebrities, renowned experts, and exciting new voices in audio. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog,

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free for 30 days. Audible.com slash morbid. Now, I- this case is just so nuts. It's insane. So once he was placed under arrest, the sheriff wanted Paul to hand over a writing sample quite obviously. But this was not your typical like, hey, can I get you to write down a couple random sentences and we'll just compare the two. Yeah. Fucking put a fuzz or whatever. They were not put a fuzz back. Like, probably not. No. Instead, he was handed one of the Circleville letters and asked to copy the letter in its entirety. So at first I had your face, but at the same time, I then wondered if they were handing him the letter itself to see if it would listen any kind of response.

And to maybe see if it was obvious that he was trying to write differently? Exactly. Maybe that was some kind of underlying motivation here. I was really proud of myself for seeing why the tactic would happen. I was like, oh, maybe this is why they're doing it. Maybe cups be doing that. So, yeah, when he was taken to trial in October of 1983, he only ended up facing time for the attempted murder. Like nothing about being the circle of the letter right here because I don't know what charge would that even be? I like stocking. Yeah, there could be a letter. But I don't know why laws were really

not for him. I don't think stocking laws have been made at the time Actually, so I don't think that would even be a thing. Yeah, so he was just facing time for attempted murder But the judge did allow a ton of letters to be brought in as evidence against him I think the total number was 39 that they let him now the prosecution claimed that the writing in the letters The writing on the booby traptrap, and Paul's hand-writing samples all matched. The defense argued that Paul was not on trial for writing the letters, and instead they pointed to the possibility that all of this was a setup. And obviously, they specifically pointed the finger to Karen, saying that she would have the most to gain if Paul was behind bars, which is literally just a fact. Yeah, they weren't wrong,

but the jury had already made their decision. They agreed that Paul was guilty. And once the verdict was read, he was sentenced to the maximum possible sentence at the time for attempted murder. Seven to 25 years. Whoa, you ready for the kicker? Oh, I'm ready.

Paul's in prison. Letters don't stop. Oh no. The letters didn't stop when he was put in prison, when he was placed on a pen and paper ban, when he was placed on an actual mail ban. Also, they were like, obviously like when he was allowed to read letters and write them, they were looking at all of this and they didn't find anything. He was placed in solitary confinement at one point

because the letters wouldn't stop. And even after multiple searches of his cell to see if somehow he was smuggling in pen and paper, no, he wasn't, and the letters continued. So he's just a completely innocent man. And Jill, maybe. So Paul actually got a letter himself while he was in prison, which read Fresh Hour.

Now, when are you going to believe me? You aren't getting out of there, Colin. I told you two years ago when we set him up, Colin, they stay set up. So now this person is trying to make it seem like they're working together, but the belief the entire time was that one person was responsible for these letters. All the handwriting was the same on the signs, on the letters, like everybody just believed that this was the person. But now this person just sees

that they've got a momentous amount of power, right? 100%. So now I can make it look like he had something to do with it anyway. Exactly. Now eventually, the warden of the prison himself wrote a letter to Paul's ex-wife Karen saying, it was entirely impossible for Paul to be writing these letters.

There was no fucking way he was the one writing letters that were continuing to be sent out. And the letters that were being sent out were still postmarked from Columbus, Ohio. And Paul was being held at a correctional facility in Lima, Ohio, or Lima. I didn't look that up. Which was about an hour and a half away from Columbus that I did look up. Oh don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. somebody pointed out that maybe he could have written a batch of letters like knowing that he was going to prison and then had the like had was working with somebody and had those letters sent out or had them set up to be mailed out somehow.

But then it's like why would he implicate himself? Yeah. If he was trying to make it look like he didn't. Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense, but it was just a point worth noting it. And dressing for sure. So ultimately, even though it became pretty clear to most people that it was like full blown impossible that Paul was sending these letters, he still served 10 years for the attempted murder.

But he was released on parole in 1994. Damn. By that point, it had been 20 years since the letter writer had stepped on the scene. 20 years. Wow. Now, right before Paul was released from prison, unsolved mysteries decided that they wanted to air a special about the case, and they actually reached out to some of the people involved

and just like different people in the town to see if they wanted to be part of the episode. Now, Paul was one of those people, and he agreed to be interviewed for the segment, probably in an attempt to clear his name on a more widespread level. But right before the unsolved mysteries crew was supposed to come down in film, they received a letter from the letter writer urging them not to come to Circleville.

The letter read, forget Circleville, Ohio, Colin. Do nothing to hurt Sheriff Ratcliffe colon if you come to oh Hi oh you all sickos will pay what you else sicko all the sudden are you saying like L sickos like that's weird now the unsolved mysteries crew They're like fuck that we're not gonna let us help us. This is a great story. We're coming out. We're a gear in idiot Yeah, so an interesting aside to that story though is that there was this family friend of Paul's, somebody named Pam Stanton, and I was, she was also friends with Karen, like family friends with Paul and Karen when they were married. Yeah. So Pam was interviewed for 48 hours episode, because they did like a huge deep dive into this case. Great episode. You should watch it. But Pam said that when Karen found out unsolved mystery was going to be coming to town,

she was pissed about it. And she actually called Pam and told Pam that she should not participate. Really. And Pam also claimed that Karen sat across the street from where they were conducting the entire filming process and watched as people involved in the case went in and out of the building. She allegedly even took pictures of these people coming and going so that she could keep track of who had participated. What? Now that's just one person's claim, but that's a pretty hefty claim. Damn, that is a hefty claim. Now another strange theory connecting Karen to some kind of setup against Paul was his missing gun. Yeah.

Paul had allegedly told a couple of friends that he believed his own son Mark had stolen his gun. Bless you. Sorry, I sneezed. And they thought perhaps that was how Karen had got her hands on it to set him up. Because when his parents got a divorce, Mark seemed to side with Karen.

But people around town said he really didn't have a choice in the matter. If he was Karen's son, that was that. Okay. Now, and that's the thing that family friend Pam said, he was either Karen's son or he was Paul's son, as far as Karen was concerned. Oh, no. Not that's so fucked up. Now, a lot of people felt like Mark's death in 2002 gave credence to this theory

because he unfortunately committed suicide. Oh. His body was found in the Sao-da River in Port Smith, Ohio. Now his mother pointed out that he had struggled for a long time with depression and obviously mental illness. And obviously that was just the result of his struggles that he had gone through. But of course, the gossip throughout the town wondered if that guilt was wrapped up somewhere in that depression and that's why this happened. Oh, wow. But nobody obviously knows for sure. Of course.

Now, as soon as Paul was released from prison, the letter stopped. Huh. Isn't that strange? That is strange. Weird. He maintained for the rest of his life that he had nothing to do with the scandal

or the attempted murder And he went to the grave believing that wrongly obsc he was killed. He himself passed away in June of 2012 Okay, but like I told you in 2021 48 hours took a look at the case and they decided to do a little investigating themselves They talked to a former FBI profiler, a woman named Mary Eleon O'Toole, who's also a redhead, so she's really fucking cool. Hell yeah. Hot shit. Hot shit. After reading through the letters, it was Mary Eleon's belief that this letter writer was not highly educated, which points away from Paul because he had a

master's degree and a couple other degrees as well. Okay. And she also thought that it was possible that the letter writer was a woman who was trying to pose as a man by saying things in other letters like there were these ones written specifically to super intended, super intended, Matthew telling him, quote, stay away from my girls. Hmm. And there were other ones where he would be like stop flirting with my girl, stop making my girls uncomfortable. But then it's like, that could be, that's pretty, like I would say that, like stay away from

my girls. Yeah, of course. They're my girls. You know what I mean? So that can easily be a woman for sure. Yeah, and that's what she thought. So she also thought that it was possible that the booby trap was actually some kind of setup or was at least set up by somebody other than the letter writer because she thought So she also thought that it was possible that the booby trap was actually some kind of setup

or was at least set up by somebody other than the letter writer because she thought it was unlikely that the letter writer would quote, risk exposure like that. Okay. Because this was set up, it seemed to be set up like in the middle of the day. Yeah. You know, like it was along the bus route that she had already gone down that morning and she didn't see it there. Yeah.

And then it was there on her way back. Yeah, they would have to stay on there and set that up. Exactly. And why would they risk exposure? But then I guess you could say the same thing about the signs that were posted around town. But maybe it was like the middle of the night. I don't know.

It's wild to me that no one staked anywhere out. Why this person? Absolutely wild. That they Why this person? Absolutely. Like, wild. That they didn't like band together, you would think. Like you would think they would have like, like, I don't know, if like, I feel like you should have a town meeting and be like, okay.

Yeah, like, what are we gonna do about this? Who's taking what shift? Who's taking what road? Right. This fucker isn't gonna be able to plant anything without us seeing it. That's what you would think. Like, I think they need like a tailor.

They need a tailor, unfortunately. They need a tailor from Gilmour Girls to like, it's round up. Taylor Docey. Docey, I was just kidding. They need him to round them up in the town hall meeting. They do. Tell them what's what.

Exactly. That's the thing about this case, is you're just like, but how did they get away with this for 20 years? That's what's right. Like into the 90s? I mean, we started like doing some shit in the 90s, you know? Yeah.

Well, it's just as simple as like you got to organize a bit and be like here and let certain people are going to say take certain roots certain times and we're going to always have eyes on this place. But now you would just set up a camera. Now you would totally set up a camera. But honestly, that should have been what the sheriff was doing. Well, that's the thing. It should have been, that should have been what the sheriff was doing. Well, that's the thing. It should have been, this should have been highly organized.

Exactly. So, strange that he didn't, it's very strange, and I'll, I might have a reason for that. Okay. So, honestly, like a reason against that. Every reason that I find in this case, I'm like, that works for and against. Yeah. That's usually the case with these. Yeah, that's the thing.

It's like a double-edged sword. It's so frustrating. It really is. So Mary Ellen thought one thing. On the contrary, 48 hours also spoke with a woman named Beverly East, who is a handwriting expert and a court-qualified expert witness. Ooh.

And a bad bitch. Ooh. They told her nothing of the case, and they just provided her with some of the circleable letters and then some letters that Paul had written himself. She did find that there were over 100 writing quirks of Paul's that matched the letter writer. Oh. And when you see them, it is pretty compelling.

Two pointed out specifically were the way that he wrote the number three. He writes it almost with like a little tail like this. Oh, right. And she was like, it's like, you can't decide if it's a three or two. Yeah. But it's always. And then also the way that he wrote the letter G, it was like he was writing a six. Oh, okay. And that was in his personal letters and in all of the letter writers letters. There were patterns in the circle of the letters though that did not match Paul's writing. But overall, Beverly said that she was confident, saying he was the letter-writer.

Wow. That's interesting. What else is interesting is that during their special 48-hours investigation, they also learned that Paul's fingerprints had been found on 12 of the letters. What? But the thing is that there were hundreds, if not thousands of these letters that went out. Why would his fingerprints only be on 12 of them? Maybe he was just careless with those? Maybe, perhaps.

Maybe he wore gloves with the other ones, or maybe... He was handed one of them. Yeah. Remember? That's true. I'm like could I don't know how this works. Could they lift fingerprints and put them on somewhere else? Can you do that? I'm not sure how that would work on like paper. I don't know. Sure.

Huh, some people thought maybe another setup. Now, I had mentioned earlier in the episode that people wondered if the sheriff Dwight Radcliffe was involved in a cover-up. Yeah. People pointed the fact that he was trying to be elected president of the National Sheriff's Association, and that obviously it would not look great for him if there was some kind of psychopath letter writer attempted murderer on the loose.

And that's why certain information given in the case never made it to Paul's trial and why they were so quick to find him guilty, even though pretty much all of the evidence in the case was purely circumsciential. Yeah. But at the same time, why would you not then just go find the actual letter writer when you realize that this is not ending? Yeah.

It's weird. It doesn't make sense. Now, this is really horrific and I will give you a trigger warning for this. It's sexual abuse and sexual abuse against minors. Oh, terrible. He was not the only, like, official who was confirmed to have a reason for covering this entire thing up. The coroner, Dr. Carroll, who ruled Ron's death a suicide, had been accused by the letter

writer of being a pedophile. Yeah, Jesus. That turned out to be true. Oh, no. He was charged with 12 counts of gross immorality, sex crimes, corruption of a minor, pornography, obscenity, and indecent exposure in 1993. Wow, what a disgusting fucking monster.

Yeah, so it would not be hard to believe that Ron Gellipsi did not, like, he may not have even been intoxicated, he could have just faked that entire report. Holy shit. Finally, one of the original suspects, David Longberry, the driver who Mary thought had a motivation to attack her because he was upset about not wanting to go on a date. La, la, la, trigger warning.

He raped an 11 year old girl in 1999 and has been on the run ever since. What the fuck has not been found. Are you kidding me? I am not kidding you. Oh my God. So this is the thing, like a bunch of the key characters in this case are fucked up, very bad people. Very bad people.

And these are people with high positions. I mean, David Longberry, like was a bus driver, but in a position of power, in a position where he had easy access to children. I was just gonna say, in a position to be in charge of children. Right. Holy shit.

So people are still divided to this day, whether or not Paul was the actual letter writer and what the fuck went down in Circleville, Ohio, but pretty much all of the people in this case have passed away by this point, and they've never truly uncovered the identity. Like they're still talk about it. So I guess all we can hope for is some kind of deathbed confession from somebody who hasn't

died yet. That's all you can really hope for because at this point, you're like, I imagine that the letter writers did if they stopped. I would think so. I mean, I feel like death would be the only thing to stop. Yeah, I mean, they were like a runaway train there. They were gonna be stopped by anything. So what do you think?

Do you think that the booby trap was the letter writer? I don't. That's hard. I lean more toward the theory that it was a setup. I don't know who set him up, but I lean more toward the theory that it's a setup. This, honestly, this one is really hard for me. What about Paul?

What do you think about Paul? That's the thing. This person is so unhinged that that's writing these letters and posting these signs that, because at first I was gonna be like, wow, that booby trap is a real escalation, right? Of what's going on,

but then I'm also like, you really gotta be tapped to be doing this. Oh, absolutely. And like, is that truly so much of an escalation with what they're already doing? I mean, they're doing this. Oh, absolutely. And that truly, so much of an escalation with what they're already doing, I mean, they're doing this to like a child. It's like, I wouldn't put anything past this person. And potentially, like,

may have even murdered Ron Gallipsy somehow. Exactly. Like, people I still, I don't know about. I don't know. I don't know. And then Paul, at first, I was like, oh, that made, he's like, I, like it makes sense. That's his gun.

It's like it all kind of like just went with it. But then like the letters coming while he's in prison threw me off. But then when he comes out, all of a sudden they stop. Right. That's throwing me off. And then like, why would they stop when he got out of prison?

Like why would, he would stop them because he didn't want to go back to prison? But how could he pull off like, why would they stop when he got out of prison? Like, why would he would stop them because he didn't want to go back to prison, but how could he pull off like, not having them ever find anything in his cell? That's the thing, it's like, he wasn't writing them in prison. There's no fucking way. So that just doesn't make sense,

unless there's someone else involved here. Yeah, unless there's two. Where did that person go? And the belief from the profiler was that this was one person who wrote these letters. And I believe that the handwriting expert also believed the same thing.

Yeah. Which I do too. If you look at the letters, for me, I think it's one person. Yeah. I know handwriting analysis can be a little tricky. Like some people legitimately like think it's like real science. And then some people think it's like junk science. Yeah, it's still hotly debated.

So it's like one of those hotly debated things I don't have an opinion on it. Nor do I. Because I certainly don't know how to look at somebody's handwriting and tell you anything. So I find it. I do the fuck am I to say that it's junk science when I don't know? Yeah, and I can't say it's junk science

because I do find it fascinating. It is fascinating, but it's one of those things that you're like, I don't know how much I should take that into account. And you can change your writing so easily. Well, that's a thing. Like, I even change my writing sometimes without even meaning to. Exactly. So it's like, I don't know about that one.

And then there's the fingerprints on 12 of the letters, where the hell did that come from? Because you can't transfer a fingerprint. You can transfer the DNA. So that's weird. You can't really transfer a fingerprint onto a piece of paper. So that's weird. So that is weird but that's been a little time. Something at least. One that's been lifted for something. At the same time though, who were we to say that like he didn't

he didn't look through the letters at some point. Yeah I mean like maybe somebody was in the room when he was looking through them but we don't know where that person is or if they ever said. Right. Hey he touched other ones. And he was handed a letter. So it's not out of the realm of possibility. Like maybe they had a folder of like the 12 nastiest ones or something like that, because again, hundreds of thousands of letters, like I would have said,

there was hundreds at least, I would assume that there was thousands. How, why would your fingerprints only be on 12? I know you're saying you was maybe careless with those ones, but it's just weird to me. It doesn't make a lot of sense. No, none of it does. As a morbid listener, you know that the world can sometimes be a scary place.

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Right. The main thought that I had was, was it the superintendant's wife? I believe it's a woman. That never comes up anywhere in this whole thing. I searched through a ton of things and the wife has never brought up. But we are not alone in our belief that it's a woman because I went on a ton of online forms and shit and a lot of people believe that it's a woman. Yeah, I immediately thought it was a woman.

As soon as you started reading them out loud, I just feel like I don't know, I just feel like this is a woman rating. I don't know why. I just got a vibe. Yeah. It was something about the way it was said or what was said. Yeah. I got a little rattled when they started talking about a 12 year old girl.

I was like, ooh, who's this? Like what? But I don't know, there's some terrible women in the world, for sure. So definitely are. Because I immediately was like, well, a woman wouldn't talk about a child like that. But then I was like, no, immediately was like, well, a woman wouldn't talk about a child like that, but then I was like, no, what the fuck am I talking about?

There's plenty of terrible women. Yeah, and the first letter says, stay away from Massey. Don't lie when questioned about knowing him. I know where you live. I've been observing your house and know you have children. This is no joke. Please take it serious. Everyone concerned has been notified

and everything will be over soon. That does sound like a woman. So it went to me. And the thing about ruining families, taking other people's husbands, I'm like that rings very, like it's a woman. It does. I don't know why, it just does.

It does. I definitely think it's a woman. I just don't know who the hell she is. Yeah. But guys, let us know what you think. Do you think that it's a woman. I just don't know who the hell she is. Yeah, but guys Let us know what you think. Do you think that it was a woman? Do you think that the booby trap was a setup? Yeah, what do you think Paul is guilty? What do you think? What do you think guys? I have no idea what to think by the end. I have no fucking clue. Usually I have one path to go down I've none. I don't know what this was. This was one of the most interesting cases though,

that I've driven to. I was like, wow, wow, hi, wow. And then you're just like, hey, come down to the pumpkin festival. Oh yeah, which I want to. I want to see there. For real. I can imagine if we find out who the letter is. You guys saw where they were?

Oh, that would be amazing. We got pumpkins out of it and salt. Cracking a cake. Yeah, and justice. Pumpkin injustice. Wow, there you go. It's crazy. Pumpkins and solve. Cracking a cake. Yeah, injustice. Yeah, injustice. Wow. There you go. It's crazy.

Pumpkins and justice. Well, we help people, isn't it? And we hope you. Keep it. Wee! But that's where things start writing and honest to a lot of people. And you terrorize their entire family

and you say horrible things about children because like, who the hell are you to do all of that? Yeah, that's gross. Bye. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill? Or are they made to kill? I'm Candace DeLong and on my podcast, Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music. I share a quick 10-minute

rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler. On Killer Ciky Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings, Breaking Down Lori Vallow, a.k.a. Mommy Doom stays motives and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder. I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive Podcast, Killer Psychie Daily, in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today!