Morbid - Episode 340: Following Up The Loretta Jones Case With Heidi Jones-Asay

Episode Date: July 18, 2022

We got the chance to sit down and chat with Heidi Jones-Asay, who helped solve her mother’s 46 year old murder. Heidi was just 4 years old when her mother was brutally murdered in their own home. From that night forward Heidi tried over and over again to tell the police who was responsible but there just wasn’t enough evidence. We covered Loretta Jones Murder in episode 335 if you would like to listen to that first to hear the outcome. Getting to chat with Heidi was an absolute delight, and who better to weigh in on this subject than someone who lived it themselves. Thank you Heidi :)If you are or anybody you know is suffering from domestic abuse, help IS available. Please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 800-799-7233.  If you are looking for more information on Domestic Violence and legal action that can be taken, please visit the Battered Woman Justice Center at https://www.bwjp.org to learn more.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's ANGI, or download the app today. Hey, Weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is morbid. I guess what everybody, it is a special edition of Morbid because we got the chance to sit down with Heidi Jones AC and she got to tell us a little bit about her mother's case. Her mother, if you don't remember, is Loretta Jones. We covered her case.

You may have heard it on Wondering Plus two weeks ago and I believe it came out last Wednesday. There you go. So a few days ago. Yes. So we thought this So a few days ago. Yes. So we thought this would be the perfect time. We, I mean, like, worlds collided. We got connected with Heidi. She was super happy with the episode and wanted a chance to chat with us.

And we were like, hell, yeah. She is one of the sweetest people I've ever met. Same. I love her. Remember, we were saying in the beginning of it, it just like, she just seems cool. Like, and she is cool. Yeah, it's so funny, because in the, when Ash was telling me her mother's story,

I was baffled by Heidi. And I just kept being like, oh my god, Heidi is such a badass. I want to meet Heidi. She seems so cool. I just want to like, high five her and hug her and like, solve all the crimes in the world with her She's just amazing and then you meet her and it's like yep

You're exactly what I thought you were gonna be in more. I left her That's the thing and now we get to go on and like be friends with her for the rest of our lives Yes, if Tom is ever up for parole Heidi has invited us to go with her Hell yeah, we are all gonna wear our die-mad Tom shirts Yep, and we're doing that. And they're gonna have pink handcuffs on them and you're not gonna know why as I'm saying this, but you listen to this interview with Heidi. You guys are going to find out and you know this was honestly this was one of the most rewarding things I think we've gotten to do so far. This was really

really amazing and Heidi's amazing and we're so glad that she can tell you the story because she knows it best. It's her mom. Yes. And just as a quick little warning, this was a Zoom interview and you know how sometimes audio can be a little funky over Zoom. So we apologize if it's like a little wonky. Luckily, when Heidi is speaking, it's crystal clear. It's really only when we're speaking and who gives a shit about us.

It's about Heidi. So luckily, her parts, you can hear everything, but we just wanted to warn you. You can hear us, you can hear the questions. You just might get a little bit of background noise. So just wanted to prepare you for that. But again, Heidi is crystal clear, which is the important part.

Primal. So I would say without further ado, there's Heidi, enjoy Heidi. Hey everyone, we have Heidi Jones A.C. on the show today. We recently covered her mother's story on the podcast, Loretta Jones. It's available for everybody now. So check that out. And we're going to do a little follow-up interview with Heidi who knows her mother's story best. So welcome to the show Heidi. Thanks ladies.

I'm excited to be here. We're excited to have you. Thank you so much for coming on. Absolutely. I can tell you to when Ash told me your mother's story by the end of it, I was like, bring me Heidi. I want to give Heidi a hug. I want to hang out with Heidi.

You are amazing. Not truly. Well, I just want you to know that if I have to go before the Pearlboard and what is it? What it'd be 20 20 20 20 30 6 you girls are going with me. Oh, absolutely. We're ready to go. We're like booking tickets right now. Let's go. Let's fight that. No, seriously, your story was just so inspiring the way you sought justice for all those years and finally got it. Just it's the happy ending for me, you know? Yeah. So with that being said, we'll kind of start from the beginning. So you were obviously very young when this happened. You were four years old. Can you, how can you describe your early childhood? What was it like growing up with your mom when you did

and what was Utah like for you? So in 1970, it was a small town. Probably maybe 7,000 people? Maybe? Oh wow. Pretty much everybody knew everybody. If you didn't know everybody, somebody knew somebody that knew you.

So, you know, back then, little kids played outside. You know, you'd run up and down the street, you played kick the can, kick ball, night games. You know, you would be just like with your doors and windows open back in the day because you know summers are warm and price you talk. So it's the lie. So we had, you know, we, it was just my mom and I,

we moved around to a couple little places and then finally my grandfather had bought a house and so me and my mom rented this house for my grandfather. And it was just the two of us, and it was a perfect little house. And she would, you know, cook dinners. We'd go get ice cream. We'd go see her friends. She was taking a correspondence course at home to become an accountant. And, you know, she, she babysit, you know, she was the best mom for me, you know.

She was one of my first memories of her is, you know, sitting in her car, getting ice cream, you know. Of course, we go see grandma and grandpa lot, you know, when she would eye in her clothes, I'd get out my little pretend ironing board and iron alongside of her. That's so cute. We sit down on the porch, you know, when people walk by, you pretty much wave to everybody. And like I said, you know, if you didn't know the person, somebody else knew them and they knew you.

So it was a real, you know, real small, we thought safe town. Right. Yeah. Exactly. That's what it sounds like. Yeah. Moving on from that and onto something pretty awful. We're going to talk a little bit about Tom right now. Do you remember anything about your experience with Tom beating him or being around him at all as a kid? anything about your experience with Tom beating him or being around him at all as a kid? I don't really remember him. What I do know is that I knew him. I knew him well enough to know that it was Tom. When the police asked me who it was and I said, Tom, I obviously, he had

been to the house, you know, I don't know how many times. But he had been around enough that I knew him. So being a single woman, my mom, of course, dated. And it's not like she brought every guy home with her or whatever, but from what I know, is she went on a blind date with Tom and she was set up by whatever friend. You have this friend and so they went on a blind date with Tom and she was set up by whatever friend. You have this friend and so they went on a blind date. My mom didn't really care for him, you know, so we could see it on. I know, she had good taste. Right. Probably had this brain suspicion that he had another woman in help

her Utah that was pregnant with baby. You know, we have these intuitions. Yeah, exactly. So you knew of him, you would recognize him if he was at your house. Is there anything specifically from the night that your mother was killed that you do remember? I don't know. No, traditionally, like I don't remember, personally, I don't remember that night when this all took place. I have blocked that out. Like, really good. That's good. Yeah, exactly.

My memories don't start really until the next morning, but I know that I saw and I heard more than I remember. Because as a four year old, why would you go look through your keyhole before going into the front room? That is exactly the way we salt rating that. Yeah, you just knew something was off. Right.

And you know, nowadays the doors don't look like they did back in 1970, you know, we had the old skeleton keys. And so you easily look through and see what was going on in the other room. You know, I had also told my grandmother what happened that night. So what I told her is, you know, I saw Tom. I heard Tom. I could hear his footsteps. I heard him say, I'm here, I'm going to kill you and maybe your little girl too. Oh my goodness.

I'm so awful. You know, that I remember seeing and hearing that. Viv is in the next morning. I remember looking through the keyhole. Wow. I must have just been so terrifying as a four-year-old. I can't believe you went through that. Wow, I must have just been so terrifying as a four-year-old. I can't believe you went through that. Right. And it's so impressive too that at four years old, you had the wear with, excuse me, wear with all, after all the drama that you had just been through

to run and get help. Do you remember having the instinct to do that? Well, so when I, you know, without you in the courtroom and I found my mom, I knew nothing, you know, we didn't have nine when one. Right. Wow. That's great. Where was the phone book? I didn't

know the number. So when I went, I went outside and my next door neighbor, his name is Lance, he was outside digging for worms, you know, because you dig for worms to go fishing or whatever. And he says, hey, Heidi, come here. And I said, I can't. I think my mom is dead. And so he came running over and last is about five years older than I am. Maybe four. than I am. So he came running over, opened the door, saw my mom lying in a pool of blood,

re-wrapped back, got his mom, his mom went over, and then she saw it, she saw it, and then she came back to her house, so we're at his house, Dick's store, and then they called my, she called my grandparents, her name was Sue Ann. Okay, so these were new new and you were comfortable with. Right, right. So then, you know, Suanne is the one that ultimately called the police. Gotcha. So I feel like that's like a real testament to your mom too, just to put that kind of

like, because a lot of four year olds wouldn't, they might just sit down and cry. Yeah, for like, you know, like, year. And I feel like she, that really says something about how she raised you to be like, because a lot of four year olds wouldn't, they might just sit down and cry for like in a year. And I feel like she, that really says something about how she raised you to be like, all right, I got to do something here. Definitely. Well, and, you know, I can't tell you that I remember like going over and touching her or any of that to see that she was dead, but the amount of blood that was there in the living room, I'm sure you just knew. Yeah. And it's your mom. I feel like it's just like you know, it's that bond that you have together. Absolutely. Hey there, fellow podcast listener, it's Elena and Ash. And we're taking you back to the days

before streaming services. Whoa! You know when you would come home from high school and it was only a few hours until that TV show Everyone was watching was about to come on. Well in 1999 that show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In our podcast with Wondery the rewatcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer We take it back to 1999. So get out your knee high boots and paste that poster of Angel on the Wall. It's time to enter the Buffyverse.

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They obviously arrive. Do you remember talking to them? Do you remember them asking you any questions? So I remember sitting in the kitchen table at my neighbor's house and I was just waiting for my grandparents and I, you know, the police came and I told them Tom did it and then the next thing I know I'm living with my grandparents. war one. That really is. Yeah. Just the fact that you were there and they didn't consider you a witness because you were so young, it must have been so frustrating for you. Do you remember finding that out later and looking back and just being like, what the heck? Right. Well, because growing up, you know, that so Carbin County Sheriff, Albert Pass, it would come and Price City Police chief, Art Ploney would come.

And they would, I mean, they would come to the house and interview me several times. I mean, you know, there was like, oh, the cops are here again. Oh, Heidi, you know. Oh, hi. You know, all the sheriffs here. So they would come and I told him, Tom did it.

Tom did it. Tom killed my mom, you know. I never changed my my story never changed. So I just assumed that, you know, that would have been used as evidence or they keep coming back to get the same story. And then it wasn't until I started working with David Brewer that he's like, I can't really, they didn't put you on the witness then. Well, but I do remember that my grandparents protected me from having to go through that on the way. I'm standing my testimony would have been enough. Yeah, definitely. That's the thing. It's like a double edge sword there because you know your grandparents were like, we just got a shield from this.

But at the same token, you you're like I know what happened. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. It's a nice that they shielded you a little bit for sure. And especially because I'm sure you were terrified growing up. Like were you scared that Tom was going to come and find you when it started becoming clear that the police weren't listening and weren't following up on this guy.

Well, what I know is Tom was pretty much, you know, after he was released from gel after the Lori Kulo abduction and all that, I know that he was released from gel and then he left town. Really quick. Um, um, him and his, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the, the left hand, and it wasn't so much that I was scared. I just always felt like I needed to know, like you're looking over your shoulder. Yeah. You know, I remember one time in elementary school seeing a strange man, you know, I just felt terrified, you know, because why is that strange man standing over there? You know, is he watching me? Is it Tom? Is somebody else? What's going on? So there was the sense of being terrified, you know, as a child for a few years.

And I remember when I first started going to elementary school or kindergarten elementary school, my uncle brother, if you will. So he was my mother. I was going to say, yeah. He, you know, I would rock school, Kim. I ultimately, you know, he was older than I am. But once I got out of, when he got out of sixth grade

then I had a best friend we'd meet at school hill and we'd walk together. So I never really walked alone. That's good. So yeah, that's good. You must have just been so hyper aware of your surroundings though and just the anxiety of all of that, I can't imagine.

Now kind of moving on from that a little bit, growing up you collected anything you could about your mom's case, trying to, you were like a little Nancy Drew trying to solve this case. And you talk a little bit. Yeah, so you really were. Yeah. Can you talk to us a little bit about the file

that you put together? So when I was growing up, I would sneak out to the garage where my mother's belongings were stored. And I took her diary. That's awesome. I would have done the same thing. So I have her diary from 1961 to 1965. And I started it. And I just hit it away. Well, my mom wrote a diary every single day, never missed a day. So the diary from 1966 the year I was born until 1970 is just missing. And of course, the police checked out for evidence, but.

But so when I would find any like newspaper clippings about my mom or whatever going through newspapers that I just happened to find from back then, I would just keep them and I hit him pretty well. So nobody would catch on to what I had going on my grandma, their bless her heart. She had no idea that I even had remembered. She thought I had blocked it out of my head. Wow. It wasn't later until I was talking to, it was, see, it would be my brother's wife's daughter. No, my brother, one of my brother's wife's sister, we went on a trip and I started talking about my mom being murdered and all this other stuff. They went back and told my grandma about it and she had no idea that I could even remember all of it. We just didn't talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It's one of those things where it's like of that time we don't talk about it anymore.

Exactly. You know, we've got, I remember the trip we went to Yellowstone and there I am, I am probably 10 or 12 and here I am talking to this girl about my mom being murdered and she's probably like what the heck? She's like well. Well, you're probably hiding it so well and you just need somebody to talk to about it. Yeah, I'm sure you're just wanting to talk about it. Exactly. So so growing up, you know, there somebody to talk to about it. Yeah, we're just wanting to talk about it. Exactly. So growing up, there was all the talking about it, all the trying to get the murder case solved.

Up until my grandpa died, and then at that point, you did not talk about it. All it would do was make my grandma cry. And I hated being the way, I hated being the one to make grandma cry. Yeah, it grandma cry. Yeah, for a really long time. That must have been so hard to. Yeah, it seems like you were both trying to protect each other. It really does.

It was just like, you both loved each other enough to protect each other from it. Exactly. And then, you know, later, me and my grandma, kind of, you know, I, I ended up calling her mom, Grandma mom. I called her mom after I was adopted, of course, but, you know, later in life, I would, when I lived in California and come over and visit, and I'd say something about my mom, or try and ask her questions, and she'd just get upset and cry. And I hated being the one that made a cry. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. And then and then towards the end, I finally told her, I says, I'm tired of competing with you as to who hurts the worst. I understand that

we're seeing that. But it was my mother. Yeah. And she, she kind of, I think she kind of got a better understanding of where I was coming from, but I heard too, you know. Yeah. Right. Those are two of the most important relationships in your life, the mother daughter relationship, and then she had a totally separate one where she lead a different role. Yeah. It's just, it's not different levels of grief.

It's just different kinds of grief. Definitely. Right. How hard to navigate that. Yeah, I can't have so much. Yeah. So obviously you were you're going through all of this. You can't really talk about it at home. The police aren't really making any movement. What was your motivating factor that like kept you going when you were hitting these dead ends? So I left Utah in 1986. I moved to California and so my mom's case pretty much was closed, not closed. It went cold. They just didn't do anything and And so I left with California. And then in 1986, 1989, I decided I would write

to this television show that it just came out called End Solve Mysteries. I think that's what it is. Oh, just a little show. Right. So I wrote to them thinking, oh, you know, maybe they can help me solve this. And I didn't get a letter back from them.

So then I thought, okay, I'm going to write to Price City Police. I'm going to write to Carmen County Sheriff's, I'm going to write to the Attorney General's Office and I'm going to write to the FBI. I'm going to write to whoever I can. So I did get a response back from Carbon County Sheriff, Albert Palsik at the time. And he sent me the original newspaper clipping from the front page and all of that.

So I've wrote me a really nice letter saying that he believed that they had the right suspect all along, but there was just no evidence. So then, you know, that was just like Wembrick Wall, Wembrick Wall, Wembrick Wall, Wembrick Wall. Right. How did you shut down? Smashed her in the rain. You know, yeah, that's what I mean. I, it has been so incredibly frustrating. You know, being told, oh, there's nothing more we can do.

We did everything. No, you never. Because we never an answer. Justice hadn't been brought yet. There's always more you can do. Exactly. And I, you know, it was an entire move back to Utah that, you know, we got the ball rolling again.

And, you know, thank God for that because we were freaking awesome. You really were. You should have been on the police all along. Well, a four-year-old back to you. Come on. So, you would let me perfectly into my next question. You move back to Utah from California, and I believe I read in one source.

You told your friends it's time to solve my mother's murder. If that is the case, how did you know it was time? Well, when I was leaving Utah, it was 2006. I left when I was leaving California and coming back to Utah, 2000s. It was just time to leave California. I lived in San Jose. I was there for 20 years.

And I just was not making good decisions at the time. I got that. I got that. OK. Yeah. We all have a little young crazy free. You got to have it. You got to go out of your system. Exactly. So I told you know, one of my best friends, I said, well, as long as I'm going to go back to five, I'm going to go

solve my mom's murder case. And she's like, you know, like, yeah, she's like, I believe that. Go on, Heidi. I believe that. Go on, Heidi. So, um, and that's, you know, and that, ultimately when I first got back, it wasn't my first mission life. My first mission was to find a job, find a place to live, you know, all the stuff. Yeah, you need the stable things before you start solving a decades old case. So you, you get back to Utah, you get a little stability under your feet, and then Mr. Brewer enters the scene. So you connected with him on Facebook, and then I think you said

you ended up at the same arts festival a little bit on purpose. Tell us a little about that. So my car had been stolen, and I posted it on Facebook, you know, Kathy freaking fourth of July, my car was stolen. Oh. And so, and this was in 2009 and, and you know, I had friend David on Facebook and he says, oh, too bad you're not closer, maybe I could help. And he says, oh, too bad you're not close or maybe I could help.

And he says, what do you mean? I said, I thought you were in California, and he's just, no, I'm, I work at Carmen County Sheriff's Office. I'm all ding ding ding ding. Right? Seriously. So I just thought, well, I need to go talk to him. So I figured out at the helper arts festival that he was going.

And I love that. This is crazy, but no way. So I went on Facebook. I made sure to notice what he looked like because he did not look like what he did back in high school. Of course. I made sure to know what kind of sunglasses he wore. Wow. I made see. Kind of dropped his. Yeah, I truly stocked his page. Good. I'll do. You know. Right. He worked out really well. So then you see him at the art festival. Was your heart just racing? Like this is time we're getting close.

Oh gosh. So when I saw him, um, he had his back turned to me and I went over and I hit him on this shoulder. I'm a gay freaking brewer. You know, he's like, Hey, I said, Hey, I'm Heidi Jones. And there's, oh, Heidi, how's it going?

I'm all great. How are you? And I said, hey, I have some talk about. And he's like, yeah, what's that? You're like, you know, I, well, I said, hey, my mom, my mom was murdered in 1970 and it's never been solved. Could you look into this for me? And he tells me later that he's rolling his eyes, kind of sunglasses.

I heard that in the interview. Right. So I think, and he says, yeah, give me a column. So he goes back to where, you know, so I leave, blah, blah. So then on Monday, I called the map and I just started telling them everything and I said, and I have newspaper clippings. I have everything I can send you that I've done on my own. He's like, okay, so then I just started photocopying everything that I

had and scanning and sending and emailing and boom, we were off. Oh yeah, he was probably thinking when you're like, I have some newspaper clippings and stuff. He's probably like, okay, sure, send him over. He was probably thinking when you're like I have some newspaper clippings and stuff he's probably like okay sure send him over he's probably thinking he's gonna get like a handful and you're like here's decades worth of research. There's an actual case file. Here you go. Right. Yeah here's every letter I've written to anybody ever about my mom's murder cases. Amazing. You know here's all the rejection letters, here's everything, you know? Wow. So, that's it.

It's the work you put in. It really is. It's the work you put in. It really is. It's the work. It absolutely is. What if you were trafficked into a cult over shot nine times or fell in love with a vampire or went into a minor surgery and woke up one week later, paralyzed?

What would you do? I'm Whit Missaldine, the creator of this is actually happening, a podcast from Wondry that brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events, told by the people who lived them. From a young man that dooms his entire future with one choice, to a woman who survived a notorious serial killer, You'll hear their first person account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Each episode is an exploration of the human spirit and personal discovery. These haunting accounts sound like Hollywood movies, but I assure you,

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And one of those things was when they realized the T-O written in the blood. So online, there seems to be a few discrepancies with the different stories. There's one story where a young college woman lived with your mom and you. And then the other story is that the responding officer saw it. So can you clear that up for us? Oh, absolutely. Oh yeah.

So the photo of the T and the O was taken by my grandfather. Right. He took three or four pictures of the crime scene when the family was allowed back into the house. So my grandma had those photos in her possession. But so when the family was allowed back in to get my clothes the following day, her name is Linda, she went with my aunt Carolyn into the house to get my clothes and Linda noticed it.

to get my clothes and Linda noticed it. Oh wow. Years and okay, so Linda lived with my grandparents at the time. Her and my sister, my aunt, sister and. That's what she is to me. I thought she was going to stop looking at me. I don't know. That's exactly what Elena and I are.

Sister aunt, sister Nisaisa so we get it. And she calls my husband, Brunkel, for like brother or other uncle. Yeah. We have a very similar family dynamic. Yeah. So it was Linda. So then when this all started to come about, Linda messaged me on Facebook, you know, thank God for Facebook, thank God for social media. She messaged me and said, I have something to tell David Brewer. She said, it might help the case. I'm like, oh yeah, Colin, I had no clue what it was. Wow.

Wow. And so she called him and he says, well, I'll come over and so even over where she was living and she drew it out. He didn't show her the picture. She drew it out where it was. Wow. And then he shows her the picture and it sure enough, there it is. Wow. So I must have just been like, boom. I swear, the universe just like put things into place here is where. Oh, absolutely, because David said, well, this sounds a little too Hollywoodish, you know, you know, you know, on, yeah,

that she did it. Wow, she did it. And again, when you when you mentioned that when we were talking about the whole thing, I was like, all right, that's it. Like she's amazing. That's like that's how does that that's not even something to conjure up. There's never been another case that we've ever covered where that has happened. And I was just I remember reading it and just being mind blown. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, all those years growing up, I had never heard this story that she'd written written in her own blood. Right. And how they missed it. That's so real. Because it's clear as day, you know, like it really is. Right. Right. And,

right, right, and you know, and I in my impact statement, I had told Tom, how does it make you feel, you know, that she's with her dying breath is writing T and O in her own blood. Right. And he wouldn't even look at you, right? Right. right. What a coward. Such a coward. Absolutely. So speaking of that full blown coward, how did it feel when he was finally arrested? Do you remember that day? Oh, absolutely. Bye-bye. David and Wally Hendrix, who came to my house, another, another, um, Carbic kind of show up, detective. It came to my house and David says, oh, I, I have some paperwork I need you to sign.

And I said, okay, whatever. So he comes over, makes small talk. And he says, oh, hey, look at this cool photo. Hands me his phone and it's eggly and handcuffs. Holy crap. Oh my God. What a way to do it. Right. Right. Right. What a what a micro moment that is. I was like, are you freaking kidding me? Oh my God. Oh my God. You know, I love it. Well, and it was, you know, the same when when he when David

called to tell me ugly confess, I'm like, are you freaking kidding me? Yeah, after all these years. After all these years and I just we got him, we got him. Wow. I mean, it's so real after all this 46 years, you know, 46 years, I feel like somebody finally listened to this little four year old. Yeah. Oh, yeah. She's living in New All Along, you know, and finally she gets her answers. Yeah, you want to go along. I want to go back and high five four year old tidy.

I've decided. Honestly. Right. Well, you know, and then David, he did some pretty cool things too. He had Tom Hancock and Pink Hancock. Stop it. I love it. I'm going to show you these too.

Oh my God. But he got him handcuffed in Pink Han Cuffs and he later got him engraved and he has the original set of Han Cuffs that he went, he was arrested in. And then I'm going to show you these. Oh my goodness. That's amazing. Wow. And then I'm going to show you these. Oh my goodness. That's amazing. Wow.

Those are the ways he went to prison in. That is so amazing. I love that. That is like in your living room. Just right there. I would have it in the exact same place. And you guys can't see it. But those are very pink handcuffs.

They're on a very fancy little plaque. And you know he was pissed about it. I love it. Well, right. It's see, and on my set, they say November 29, 2016, that's the day that he was escorted into Utah State Prison. Oh, amazing. Which is something he was really ticked about.

Unreal. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Unre- That blew my mind. Have you had any opportunity other than when you were able to read your victim and tax statement to speak with him or do you have any desire to? I have no desire to.

No, no blame me. No, no blame me. It would be wastey my bra. Absolutely. Truly. I honestly have no desire to. I hope I don't have to go before the pro hearing, but if I do, I'm there.

And we're right there with you. Absolutely. For real. And we're there. That's our first dance. Okay, and we're going to wear shirts to say, die mad Tom, die mad. With hands crossed on them, Heidi.

That's absolutely. All right, we have Tom, die mad. Which hand cuts on them, Heidi. It's absolutely. All right, we have a whole game plan. I'm laughing if it's gonna happen now, you know? Absolutely. Those were all our questions. Thank you so much for taking the time with us today. And is there anything else that you want to share about your story or your mother's story?

You know, so one of my favorite sayings that I just happened to come up with was as long as you hope you have a chance because, you know, when I was feeling like there was nothing left I could do, you know, just a little glim of hope. I mean, 46 years. Yeah. Yeah. And just to have hope after all those years, it was the hope that kept driving you. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, never give up. As long as you have hope, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I love that. That's awesome. No case is truly cold. No cases. I always hate hearing people say like,

well, I don't think this one's ever going to get solved. No, it's like, no, 46 years. Everybody needs to look at it the way that you did. Really, really believe if you wanted to topple a mountain you could. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute.

I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute.

I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I'm so cute. I made a posting Facebook and a whole lot of you know. Now you have a whole community of weirdos. That's what we call them.

You got a lot of support. You really do. We're bound to. Yeah, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I hope I had never heard your podcasts embarrassing enough

but I'm in a free reach out to you. Hi to your mom's stories on. I'm a what? Thank you. Thank you and keep in touch. Yeah keep in touch definitely. We'd love to have you on a date. Yeah and I would love that and let's get some die die mad Tom shirts. Oh we're do that. Okay, let's do that. Gotta have that. We're gonna talk to the merch team. Yeah, we're gonna get a moat to you. Okay, you'll have the first one. Yeah, sweet. I will wear it to the helper arts festival. That's so great. And we'll thank you so much, Heidi. And we'll talk to you soon, I think. That's so great. Well, thank you so much, Heidi, and we'll talk to you soon, I hope.

Okay, thank you. Well, guys, we hope you enjoyed getting me here from Heidi herself. We absolutely enjoyed sitting down with her. It was so much. An absolute pleasure, truly. But on a more serious note, guys, if you or anyone you know is suffering from domestic abuse, help is available. Please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline

at 800-799-7233. And if you're looking for more information on domestic violence and legal action that can be taken, please visit the battered Women Justice Center at www.bwjp.org to learn more. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts.

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