Morbid - Episode 377: The Towpath Murders

Episode Date: October 12, 2022

Alaina brings us the case of the Tow Path Murders this week and boy is this case a doozy. Two girls just riding their bikes along the path were abruptly assaulted, brutally raped and then killed. Just weeks before that a young girl walking along the trail had been raped. Police quickly connected the dots and were luckily able to get the attacker behind bars pretty quickly, but the question remained: was his confession a fake?LINK: https://www.murdermiletours.com/blog/murder-mile-uk-true-crime-podcast-109-the-thames-towpath-murders-part-three-the-suspectSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wandery pod or text wandery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. Angie has made it easier than ever to connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Just bring them your project online, or with the Angie app, and answer a few questions. With Angie, you can book instantly at an upfront price, or request and compare quotes from multiple pros, so you can find the best price for your project.

So the next time you have a home project, just Angie that and start getting the most out of your home. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's ANGI.com. Hey, weirdos. I'm Alena. I'm Ash. And this is morbid. You seem to be questioning that.

I'm questioning my sanity lately is what I'm doing. I don't even question mine anymore. I just know she's simply not there. I don't question it. You just accept it. Lately, I just keep saying simply, like I'm like, we simply don't, I like that.

You know, we simply cannot do that. It honestly makes everything sound more adorable. Yeah, because it's like, oh, I simply will cannot do that. It honestly makes everything sound more adorable. Yeah, because it's like, oh, I simply will not do that. Simply not happening. I simply will not do that. Thank you so much. Thank you for checking.

I like that. And you know what, it's funny that we're speaking like in slight British, ascent affectations here, because my case is from Britain. Whoa! The case I was just working on involved the royal family, so that's weird. There you go. We're connected. We are one.

And you know why? And even more so, because I'll get into the case in a second, but my case happens during the coronation festivities of none other than Queen Elizabeth II. Whoa. Yeah, that's wild. And weren't you just looking up something for a case about like her great, great, great father or something? Yeah, I, oh fuck, I just did it. I think it was her great, great, great grandfather.

Yeah. For her great, great, great grandfather. He was great. He was an awesome grandpa. He was such a cool grandpa. He was the V111. There you go. I don't know what number that is.

He had to abdicate. Isn't that the eighth? Sure. I think V is five. I might be totally lying about that. Definitely five. I know that. I do V is five and then I think you add the other ones on.

Oh, okay, yeah, because Henry was V111. So yeah, right. So there you go. So there you go. Yeah. There you go. So look at me. A Roman Morrell working on a case that involves the Edward before he was king. Well, there you go. Edward the eighth presumably.

Well, technically my case is it's not about Queen Elizabeth, but it happens before she was queen officially. Ooh. So there's that. So much royal. So much royal. Oh. And speaking of like royal in the UK and all that fun stuff, I just wanted to shout out a podcast that I like, I came across the podcast when I was researching this case. And it was a really cool podcast. And I just wanted to let you guys know that if you're not listening to it, you should. Excuse me while I find the name of it.

It is the Murder Mile podcast. It's Murder Mile UK. And it's hosted by Michael Buchanan Dunn. He has done an amazing job. He does like, his sources are outrageous. Like he uses a lot of like really, really original old sources. He does like tours in the UK about these things. He's just like, he's really

good at it. I also want to tell you to listen to him because he's great. He you should, because I really like the surname Buchanan. I do too, like Daisy Buchanan. That's my immediate thought, but not like Tom though. But there's actually like a couple of things in this case that he was able to uncover that were really interesting. So if you listen to this case and you're like, wow, I would love to hear even more. Head on over there. And he's got a lot of stuff and he's got a lot of cool cases.

So this is the case of the Toe Path murders. Okay. I originally found this case because I was looking at the show murder Maps, which I've mentioned before. I think I found like Burmese horror on there and stuff too. It's such a cool show. It's like, it's so funny because Ash is like, my show is like snapped and mine is Murder

Maps and it is a very good representation of us as a people. Because Murder Maps is like really old, like a lot of like European cases, but like super old. Just a bunch of older British men talking about these cases, that's my speed. I like the like, salacious, scandalous things. Yeah, you're a salacious, scandalous kind of right now. I'm working on something that involves an affair. An affair?

An illustrious affair. A torrid affair. Actually. Go watchid affair. Actually. So go watch Murder Maps, too. It's a cool show. But this is the Toe Path murders. And like I said, it happened during the festivities surrounding Queen Elizabeth II's coronation in the 1950s.

And the first attack in this series of rapes and murders happened nine days before Queen Elizabeth II was officially crowned Queen. Now, coronations are a big deal. You've seen Frozen? Yeah, like it's coronation day. It's a big deal. Even if I can Rapunzel comes. Exactly. Rapunzel and Flynn Rider. Yes. Come. There you go. Now, they're a big deal, especially this one. People from everywhere came to London to experience the excitement, the new hope that was coming along with this coronation. Like, it was a big deal, according to all the British people

that I listened to about this. All right, but again, I was not there, I don't know. But the weather had taken a turn for the better in London. It had, I think they had dealt with like this crazy, like, fog smog deal for a while. That made like a tune of weird weather. Yeah, I don't know. It made an inter-optimal like, what's with you?

I'm sorry, I don't know. What's with you? What is with you in the weather? Well, this weather made a bunch of people sick, it like killed people, it was like a really bad situation, but then it, we were in a really good stretch of warm weather at this point.

This is taking place in 1953, and there was like warmth, sunshine. It was sticking around for a while, which is pretty unusual, especially in London. It had this whole feeling associated with this new beginning. They were coming out of a massive depression. It was all feeling very hopeful. You know, people were still dealing with all the stuff from the war. It's just like a whole, you know, sunshine is like a, you're like, I'll take it.

Yeah, I'll take some sunshine. Yeah, out of all this. Every now and again, you need a little Mr. Sun, golden sun. Thank you. Please shine down on me. So because of the weather and the party atmosphere surrounding this coronation business,

there was a lot of people just out and about. And in Tendington by the River Thames, there was a huge stretch of meadows and open land that teens and young adults would, like they would basically camp out on the banks and they would have like picnics and it had this like, it was almost like a festival atmosphere

but without the capitalism. Cool. It was just like, just people hanging out, picnicking, camping, just fishing, going on boats, like really cool little, just carefree atmosphere. I like it a lot. This was all needed just to set the scene of where this is gonna happen by the way.

So May 24th, 1953, a young man, only 22 years old, waited on ox-shot heath and attacked a 14-year-old girl who was walking her dog out of nowhere. He walked by her and then, or excuse me, she walked by him, he was on a bike, a blue bicycle. She walked by him, he just kind of stared at her, ended up turning around, following her, and once she was on a more secluded path, I'm not going to say her name, by the way, because she was alive, but she was 14 years old, and she was brutally raped. Now, he followed her, waited until she went to a more secluded path, and then he out of nowhere, snuck up behind

her and swung the blunt side of a hatchet at the back of her head. Oh my God. He then dragged her into the bushes and violently raped her. Then he just left her there. Oh my God. Now luckily she lived and was able to describe her,

attacked her, attacked her, even though she had just been violently raped and literally axed in the head. Like, head, head trauma, for sure. She said he was wearing blue overalls. He was younger. He had brown gloves on, which it was like warm out. And he had crepes sold shoes and had a black saddle bag

and a yellow and black ax or hatchet. She also said he had a cleft chin and was big, like strong big. Ooh. Now his description was released everywhere. And a man named Harry Bedford ended up calling police shortly after this to say he had seen the news in the man's description and he said he felt like

he had actually seen this man and he said he had walked by him. It was off the toe path and near like akshot he's where this crime occurred. And he said that he saw this man throwing knives at a tree. And he said he was wearing the same thing like peer to be the same guy. So police and he was like, I just saw him. So he might still be there. Right. Right. So police show up and he's there. So they bring the man in for questioning that man was 22 year old Alfred whiteway Alfred Charles whiteway

He was questioned, but they kind of didn't have anything on him besides he was wearing the same outfit And like was in the same area, right like that's not you can't really do that So he was questioned and he said he had an alibi so they released him I guess they even like apologized when they released them. Like sorry for taking up your time. That brings us to Sunday. So of course this crime is just kind of, they don't know who did it.

They're going to still look for people, but they haven't found anyone yet. So that brings us to Sunday, May 31st, which is only a few days later. This was on Teddington Lock, which is where I was talking about that people would camp out, near the River Thames, Tettington Lock. Festival minus capital.

Exactly. This is where three teenage boys, John Wells, Albert Sparks and Peter Warren were camping out by the river at Tettington Lock. Just keep this in mind because this is kind of important to the story that these three boys were camping out on Tettington Lock at this point. They were going to be there for a few days, just kind of important of the story that these three boys were camping out on Tendington Lock at this point. They were going to be there for a few days, just kind of like hanging out, having fun. Also around the area at this time was 18-year-old Christine Reed and 16-year-old Barbara Songhurst. They had taken their bikes out to ride around the tree line that day around the campsites,

just kind of saying hi to people. It was a towpath that ran from Tettington to Richmond and they rode this pretty regularly. This wasn't like a new thing. They were always riding their bikes down here. Now, 16 year old Barbara was actually going to be participating in a bathing beauty pageant that was going on as part of the coronation fun. Go off-coating.

They were both best friends, they were very sweet, they didn't get into any trouble. They were just like wholesome. Yeah. The two of them, and they were beautiful. They were close with their families, they always returned home when they said they would, and they were described as very modern women.

Like they were, you know, like just, they were like ahead of their time. Yeah. And you look at their outfits too in any of the pictures and you're like, you were just cool. Yeah, because you showed me one photo of them and you can tell, like, they're just, they have something. Yeah. And it's like, and everyone who knew them said that they just like to have fun,

but like super chill fun. Yeah. They were just like good people to have around. Everybody liked them. Now, this day, they were headed, they weren't just riding around their bikes around the towpath. They were headed somewhere particular. They were headed to the camp site with those three boys that I mentioned before. Yeah, brother. Now one of them knew the boys. I don't know which one, but Barbara and Christine obviously had been best friends forever. They go

everywhere together. So if one of them was going, the other one was going. Oh, and it was always so exciting when you were like a teenager and your girlfriend knew some cute boys and there were no parents around one weekend and you'd go like, hang out with the cute boys. Oh, it's true. Like that idea of like,

we're gonna ride our bikes to this campsite where these three cute boys are. It's like, oh my God, they were probably so excited. And just like that's so, like you know that feeling. And it's even more adorable because they rode their bikes like down the toe path to the campsite. And then they just hung out, they talked. They were playing like every source I saw

so they were playing like hide and seek and like chasing each other. Oh, the kiss. Yes. And like just really adorable wholesome shit. Yeah. I saw that they were playing hide and seek and chasing each other. They kissed. Yes. And just really adorable wholesome shit. Yeah. All the boys maintained later, all three of these boys said nothing happened.

Nobody was having sex with anybody. Like this was all very wholesome fun. Like you're head out of the middle of the building. They literally were like, because unfortunately later this does come up as something that they need to ask these boys. And all of them were like, this was literally us chasing each other around

like little kids. Like, that's what we did. Very, very, yeah. And it not, I don't know, it's very, very not salacious or anything. Yes. It was very wholesome, just the stuff that you remember doing when you were young, you

know. So they got back on their bikes during the afternoon. After they had had a lot of fun, they went back to Christine's parents house to have lunch, then they got back on their bikes and came back to the campsite. Hung out for longer, got back on their bikes, went back to Christine's head T because T. T- time loved that. They had their T and then they went back out around 8 p.m. to the campsite again. They made it to the campsite. They hung out there for longer. Apparently we're having

a great time because they're just coming back each time. And they hung out there until sometime a little before 11 p.m. And that's when they said, you know, we have to get going. And the boys all said that they walked them to the topas. I think I read in a couple of sources that one of them handed them a light to put on their bike. Yeah. But then I also sound a couple sources that they had lights on their bike, but only one of them worked. So not quite sure. So maybe it was both of those things. Yeah, I could have been a combination of both. But they were going to be going back to their homes for the evening. I think Barbara was staying with Christine.

But like, they were just having a sleepover. Yeah. Now, they were riding together down the towpath, and it was dark, obviously. But Barbara was a little up ahead of Christine. She was just riding a little faster. Now, Barbara had a flashlight. She did have something attached to her bike. And in the sources I saw,

I said that Christine might have had one too, but it was broken, so it wasn't lit. Now Barbara's bike, and this is another thing, because no one was here to say exactly what happened, it goes both ways. One of them, their bike toppled. We think it might have been Barbara's bike that toppled. And Christine saw this happen.

It was like, what the hell just happened? How did she fall over? So she was worried and she stopped her own bike got off and like ran to help her because she was a ways up the toe path. But before she could reach her friend's bike on the ground, a man stepped out from the darkness with an axe and swung it into her head.

Oh my God. Immediately knocking her unconscious. Now 8.15 am the next morning, June 1st. George Costner was inspecting a wall near Twickenham, which is along the River Thames. And he spotted something strange in the river. And this was near St. Catherine's Convent, just to give you a little more geography here. When he looked closer, he said he could tell very quickly that this was the body of a young girl

floating in the water. He immediately called police. Now, when they pulled her out, they could tell that she was a teenage girl. And she had been hit in the head with an axe and also in the cheek. Oh. She had also been stabbed at least three times in the back. Geez.

Yeah, and when they brought her in for an autopsy, they could tell that she had been raped before she had been dumped in the water. Her skull had been fractured by an axe blow, and when they finally were able to make an identification, they found out that this was 16-year-old Barbara Sun songhurst. 16-year-old. Now, apparently the pathologist described her attack as being carried out by a quote, expert rapist. What the f-?

Like, maybe choose a different way of wording that. Yeah, I'm not sure what that means or how that is determined, but it's horrific all the same. Right, you would just say like this person, unfortunately, has experience and knows what they're doing. Yeah, you know, it was a little confusing to me,

but I was like, okay, so, because like you said, afterwards, he came out and said like it was clear that this man had done this before. Right, that's all you have to say. Exactly, which is like, okay, and it's also like how though, like tell me how you know that.

Right, I just can, maybe my brain can't wrap around it, but either way, really sad, and detective superintendent of Scotland Yard, his name is Herbert Hannan, started the investigation into this horrific crime now. What if you were trafficked into a cult over shot times, or fell in love with a vampire, or went into a minor surgery and woke up one week later, paralyzed. What would you do? I'm Whit Missaldine, the creator of this is actually happening, a podcast from Wondry

that brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events, told by the people who lived them. From a young man that dooms his entire future with one choice, to a woman who survived a notorious serial killer, you'll hear their first-person account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Each episode is an exploration of the human spirit and personal discovery. These haunting accounts sound like Hollywood movies, but I assure you this is actually happening. Follow this is actually happening wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to ad free on the Amazon Music or Wonder App. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill or are they made to kill? I'm Candice

DeLong and on my podcast Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music, I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler. On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings, Breaking Down Lori Vallow, a.k.a. Mommy Doom stays motives, and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder? I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal

minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey, Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive Podcast Killer Psychie Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. Now, they brought in Fragmen, they're called, which are trained police scuba divers. They call them Fragmen. Oh, that's interesting. I never heard that before. Yeah. And they had them search the river.

And apparently, while this was all happening, upwards of 20,000 people were on scene because of the Teddington River pageant, which was happening as part of the coronation festivities. And was that the pageant that she was going to be a part of or no? I don't know. I was actually looking to find that out and I couldn't find an answer to that. I wonder if it was, to be honest. So horrific. Yeah, exactly.

And what's even crazier about this is they just pretended this was part of the pageant. Like they had a dead body. They had frog men in the water. And people were like, oh, what's going on? And they're all kind of just looking around. And they were just like, oh, don't worry about this body search. Everyone, it's not that at all.

Like we just have these guys here as part of the pageant. What? And apparently they had to announce to the crowd over the loudspeaker. We are not looking for bodies. We are only here for the pageant. What? And apparently they had to announce to the crowd over the loudspeaker, we are not looking for bodies. We are only here for the pageant. Like why would you be here for the pageant? And also like if somebody didn't realize,

like if somebody wasn't thinking that those were police scuba divers, then you've just made them be like, wait what? Like why would you be here looking for bodies? Right. Like no one's thinking you're looking for bodies, what the hell? That's like going to steal the cookie from the cookie jar and saying, I'm not going to take this cookie from the cookie jar.

You shouldn't announce that. No. You brought attention to the fact that they're a frogman in the water now. Don't be suspicious. Don't be suspicious. Truly. Come on, truly. Now while they were searching the river, they weren't finding anything, and they were looking

for clues at this point, because again, they don't know that there is two girls missing. Now, they're also looking for the murder scene, because they don't know what this happened, so they're looking around the area. They ended up finding it. It was very close by to where they had found the body, and it was near a tree. They could tell it was the murder scene, because blood was soaked all over the ground. Because this was like a very, very violent crime. Very violent.

Because he had essentially stepped out from behind a bush while she was riding her bike, swung an axe at her head. Knocked her off her bike unconscious, dragged her into the brush, raped her, and then stabbed her three times in the back. And then we did the same thing to her friend. And it sounded like time.

Exactly. Now, they found blood all over the grass, the ground, like near this tree, it was horrific. So now they're like, okay, this happened right here, clearly. So now they're looking around being like, there's got to be more clues around here. So they searched into the brush surrounding the toe path and they find something pretty quick. They find a pair of women's shoes and they're like, okay, this must be hers

and they find some socks. They're like, okay, he threw them in here. But they're still searching in that area and they find a second pair of women's shoes. Oh no. And they're like, well, wait a second. And these aren't old. These aren't dirty. They haven't been here for a while. These are new shoes that were thrown in clearly at the same time the other ones were. So now they're like, wait a second. Where's our other body?

Yeah. Now, Christine reads silver and blue bike was discovered two days later on June, June 2nd in the River Thames. And they realized this was not Barbara's bike. And now they've talked to the families. They found out that Christine and Barbara were together. And now that they know they've identified Barbara, they know they're looking for Christine. And now they've found Christine's bike, but they don't have Barbara's bike. So the assumption was that whoever killed them

jumped on Barbara's bike and ran away with it. Oh, I see. So Barbara, again, Christina's still missing, but it wasn't until four days after on June 6th that her body was also discovered floating in the water near Glover's Island. Oh. She too had, like you said, been hit in the head with an axe.

She was stabbed in the chest over 10 times. Oh my God. And she had been brutally raped. And what's horrific is like they had been brutally raped as they died. Right. Yeah. And pathologist Keith Mantle later reported that the killer of these women must have been a monster as strong as an ape. He was like the strength it takes to subdue to young women and do what he did to them and then throw them in the water, like drag them somewhere

in the water. He's like, this guy's strong. And at this point, have they realized that the first incident is related? No. Not at all. I haven't realized that at all. Okay. So right now, this has just happened. They've already released Alfred Whiteway on suspicion of that rape of the 14 year old girl. So now they're sitting here and they have not connected these to it all. It's taking everything in me not to be like, is it him? Is it him? I mean, I did just do that.

Now, the search for clues continues because now they have two dead bodies. They have one bike. They know there's another bike. They know there's more here. So they bring in dogs, they even detective superintendent Hanon even had them drain the river temps. Wow. Not the entire thing obviously but like a section portion of it. Right. A section of it. That's a big deal. And they like were going through the mud on the bottom

like looking for things. They weren't finding much of anything. They went door to door. They asked if anyone knew or it's seen or heard anything, 900 servicemen from the Bushy Park, US Air Force Base and Teddington work question. None of them knew anything. The only thing they could really get was they talked to the three boys that they had spent time with at the campsite. They got their stories. We're able to check it out that they did not follow them into the towpath and do anything. They didn't have any kind of thing to do that. And they all agreed, like we did not, nobody had sex with anybody that night.

Like they must have been raped because we did not do that. And they also talked to other boys who had been camping on the lock at like a little ways down. And they said, actually, we heard screaming, like women screaming around 11 p.m. And we had checked to see if we could see what was going on, but we couldn't find where it was coming from. And then they were like, and we heard it,

and then it stopped. So we just figured we didn't know what to do at that point were teenagers. Yeah, and at least they tried to find the solution. Yeah, they tried to like locate it and when it stopped they were like, okay, like I guess. And it's not like they could uh, with both their cell phones. Exactly. Exactly.

And this is 1953, exactly. Now, this was also 11 p.m. is right after around the time when the three boys watched Barbara and Christine leave the campsite. So this lines up. Now, initially they were working on the assumption that probably two men had carried out these crimes because there's two victims. It's pretty brutal. Both had been raped. It's like that's a lot. And it was actually a man named Duncan Webb who was a crime reporter for the news of the world at the time who was in town

and reporting on this. And he suggested it was likely not two men, but more likely one killer. And he's like, I know it sounds crazy because this is a lot. But he said that the injuries in M.O. were the same. So it would be strange for two men to be involved and do the exact same thing to the victims at the exact same time. That's a really good point. Yeah. So he was like, that's weird.

He was actually questioned because he happened to be in Teddington the night of the murders. So when he came forward and told them I was in town, they were like, you need to be questioned. He was released. He had nothing to do with it. But when I looked at Duncan Webb, because I was like, that sounds familiar that name. When you said that, it actually sounded familiar to me. He was dubbed the greatest crime reporter in the world in the 50s. Holy shit. And they were like, we're gonna need to bring you in for some questionable.

We're gonna need to bring you in for some questionable. But he had actually, he had done tons of exposés, he got a ton of like organized crime shit. Oh hell yeah. And he had actually been physically attacked a ton for his reporting. Like he had been and put himself in a lot of danger. That's the thing, that's a scary job when you're like,

oh yeah. And like in the thick of it reporting. Oh yeah. That is freaky. Scary. Now according to the Guardian, it says, quote, by only 37 years old, he had been slugged, kicked, lunged out with knives, shot at, knuckle dusted,

and was once the target of a speeding automobile that raced onto the sidewalk of a narrow Soho street and tried to smash him against a building. And my only takeaway from that is knuckle-dusted. No, I knew that was gonna be your only takeaway. Knuckle-dusted, that means punch, right? Knuckle-dusted. That's fucking great. That's so much better than a knuckle sandwich.

A knuckle-dusted. I'm gonna knuckle-dust you real quick. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's just a punch. That's what I say. Yeah, like my knuckles are dust in your face. I use knuckles are pissing me off. But it was, that was just like an interesting little side. Yeah.

Because I was like, whoa Duncan Webb, that's crazy. He's lived a life. He has, I'm telling you, you can look him up. Now one month after these murders on June 12th, a young man of 22, attacked 56-year-old Patricia Birch. I've heard 22-year-old have happened. You have, haven't you? She said that he rode past her on his bike, and she said he definitely saw her.

He made it very noticeable that he had seen her and he stopped. And he apparently started following her, like a fucking creep. And then out of nowhere, she said he grabbed her and tried to force her into the bushes, but she fought back. She's this. He also like bandaged a knife and said, I know how to use this.

And she was like, okay, no. So it's fucking loser. Yeah. I'm not using this. Yes, it's like, okay. We all know basic cutlery, sir. No, we all know. No, she fought back, like I said, and she ended up off

right. She said, why don't you just take the contents of my purse? Like, just take my purse, because she was like, I'm not being, no, like, you're not attacking me. She said, you know what? I'll bargain with you. She literally was like, take whatever monies in my purse, like, not worth this. Like, bye. Wow, good for her. And he did. It worked. She's, she was able to convince him to go away and just take, I think it was like 17 shillings. Now, she described him later to police obviously because she was luckily able to get through this

without being physically, like truly physically harmed. And she said he had a cleft chin. He was strong and sturdy appearing. He was also wearing overalls and brown gloves. I don't like overalls. I don't like that. He is wearing overalls at all. So this leads to five days after this attack,

Alfred Charles Whiteway was brought back in for questioning. Yeah, good. Yeah, I bet I have been. By Herbert Hanon. Get your book back, get your book. Get your book back in here. Get your book back in here. Get your book back in here. So this was based on what's crazy is that this wasn't even,

he wasn't even brought back in for questioning because of the Patricia Birch attack. He was brought back in again now to talk about the original attack on the 14 year olds because they were finding more stuff out. They were talking more people. His name got brought up a few minutes, like somebody mentioned a few minutes ago.

A few more times is what I meant. Again, it's been a day, my brain is just like leaching out of my ears. But again, it was not based on the Patricia Birch attack or the murders at this point. Although police at this time were starting to connect some things and starting to be like, huh, could he have been involved in one, the Patricia Birch attack and two, the murders?

Yeah, like what's this guy's deal? But unfortunately he was questioned. They couldn't get anything to keep him on. So he had to be released again, even though his clothing matched. And he was a literal, at this point, he was like a professional hatchet thrower, too. I'm sorry. Yeah, you just buried the fucking lead on that one.

You said, oh, and by the way, he was a professional how should thrower? Now, I'm going to get into this because we're going to talk about Alfred Whiteway here. But at this point, it slipped out that, yes, he did like to throw knives and he was actually pretty good at it. Wilds. Now once the news of the Patricia Birch attack came out and she described her attacker like she did Suddenly police are like wait a second. There's definitely the same guy. This is definitely the same guy

We have a serial rapist happening here and it would not shock us if he was involved in the Barbara Songhurst and Christine Reed. Of course not. So they were like, um, this sounds like that guy that we just had in here. So we should bring him back. So they brought Alfred back in for questioning on June 28th, 1953. And after questioning, he was now finally officially charged with the rape of the 14 year old girl and the attempted rape on Patricia Birch.

So finally, they are able to hold him for something. He was charged for something. But again, they don't have him for the murders yet. But they have him at least. They have him, and they can hold him right now. Now let's talk about Alfred Charles Whiteway. Do we have to? Who is this fucker?

I don't know. I don't even want to know. Like fuck this guy. Well, we got to? Who is this fucker? I don't know. I don't even want to know. Like fuck this guy. Well, we got to know. We got to know. So he was born June 21st, 1931 in London. Well, I think that's like the day. It actually, I know it is the day cancer season starts.

Oh. Okay. Cancer men. Uh oh. Oh, cancer men out there, sorry. Yeah. Sorry about that trade. I mean, I get generalization. I'm sure some cancer men out there, sorry. Yeah, sorry about that trade. I get generalization. I'm sure some cancer men are absolutely wonderful,

but you have experience. Oh, yeah, my ex was a cancer. And yep, yep, that tracks. So unfortunately for Alfred's family, they were very poor. His father died when he was 14. His mother worked as a domestic servant and he had eight siblings.

Holy shit. So there was not a lot for anybody. Lots of neglect, lots of stress. Lots of knives to throw about. Lots of knives to throw about. He was always in trouble from a very young age. He was always stealing things. Sometimes I'm sure when he was younger,

it was out of necessity. I'm sure he was stealing food and such. It's hungry. But that kind of turned into he was stealing all kinds of stuff, stealing purses, stealing things that just didn't belong to him. And he was doing it at this point just for the fun of it. He was sent to reform school and literally failed reform school. Wow. So there's that. That's when you're a bad kid. Yeah. And like I said before, this is when he became obsessed

with knives and he became obsessed with throwing knives. It's like a thing. And he became really adept at throwing hatchets, knives, and machetes. And being able to hit a target very far away. Isn't it weird that like ax throwing is like the new craze? Yeah. That's not new anymore. My like Axe throwing is like the new craze? Yeah.

That's not new anymore, but. My fear with Axe throwing is your head, right? It's always not, well it's just that somebody's not gonna let go in time and it's gonna whip back and hit them. Like a boomerang. I did not, not even like a boomerang that you're literally just gonna like whip it the wrong way because you're arm is gonna know to let go of it.

See my biggest fear. I know that's illogical, but it's not that logical. My biggest fear is actually a little bit more logical, but you have to swing your, when you do it, you hold the axe behind your head. So what if it's just the wrong way? I'm a clumsy bitch and I'm a forgetful bitch. You think you would put it upside down?

What if it spins in your hand and you don't even realize it and then you just cachunga the back of your head. Okay, I see what you're saying. I was thinking you thought you would hold it upside down and just like clonk your head. No, no, you're saying like the sharp part is supposed to be facing up. Yes. If it spins in your hand then you're chopping the back of your neck. Yeah, that's a pretty logical fear. Yeah, thank you. I think so. I think that's logical. A while. See mine is more like how you have to put it over your head

and then you whip it. What if you don't let go and you hatch it yourself in the stomach? I just don't want to hatch it myself. It just anywhere. It feels scary, but it's also something I would love to be good at. Just to say I'm good at it.

I'm ex throwing? Yeah. Yeah, I'm not good at it. It's a real power would love to be good at. Just to say I'm good at it. I'm throwing? Yeah. Yeah, I'm not good at it. It's a real power move to throw an X and hit the target. My friend, I think it was right when we got out of high school or a little bit after me, or no, no, no, it was actually way after that. It doesn't matter.

But anyway, my friend, in her backyard, her dad set up an X throwing facility. Of a facility, if you will. Yeah, and we just like spent a whole night throwing axes. So you did throw axes? Yeah, I've done it before. Oh, okay, that's cool. I've never done it. It's an activity.

It's an activity. It's pretty fun, but it is worrisome in the middle of it, you know? Yeah, you're just worried. A bunch of people around you hold an axis, I just, I don't trust people. We've also just like progressed so much as a society. I mean, we haven't but you know They mean like we though like games have progressed so much like we could sit down and play a board game

Or we could toss a horseshoe. It were my horseshoe horseshoe. It reminds me like of like the Highland games in Scotland How they which those are fucking cool. I want to see you still like be in those. I don't know Did I make that I think you completely made that you guys listen were you in the highland games? I think you totally made that up that might have been like a tale I was told as a young and now because like you know She did tell some tales hey, it would be cool if we have cousins that were in the highland games I know I actually remember like being told that yeah, that's a why I don't think we have cousins that were in the island games. I know, I actually remember being told that. Yeah, that's a lie. I don't think we have.

Cause I've made mistakes. Maybe we had descendants or ancestors that were part of the original island games. Are they still like a thing? Yeah, they have the island games now. There's like big Scottish men who just throw giant tree trunks. I'm dying right now.

I was 100% told that our consulate. That's cause of the island. It's specific ones too. Here's the thing. I'm dying right now. I was 100% told that our consulate weren't it? I had specific ones too. Your specific cousins. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I just didn't know that. I'm gonna text them after this. I don't think so.

You know they're gonna get around to this, and that group chat's gonna be popping. I really don't know. Shout out to our cousins. cousins where you and the island games were somewhere. No, I feel like you wouldn't have missed that. They definitely weren't. That's awesome, that's wild. I need to go through all the things I was told and fact check them, because there's been so many of them.

That just simply went true. And these are fun. One of them was like, your dad doesn't love you. That wasn't even true. Getting. Oh man, totally joking. That was just a ha ha. It's a funny laugh, ha ha.

Sometimes you just make jokes, you know? Sometimes you just make jokes, you know? Sometimes you just make jokes, you know? Sometimes you just make jokes, you know? Sometimes you just make jokes, you know? Sometimes you just make jokes, you know? Sometimes you just make jokes, you know? Sometimes you just make jokes, you know? Sometimes you just make jokes, you know? Sometimes you just make jokes, you know? Sometimes you just make jokes, you know? That was just a ha ha.

It's a funny laugh ha ha. Sometimes you just make jokes, you know? Sometimes. Sometimes you're a sad child, so you can be a funny, funny girl. That's an adult. Sometimes comedy. Sometimes.

How did we get here? I don't really know. I said no, no. Because we were talking about hatchet throwing, you know? I said it reminds me of the Highland games and you were like, like our cousins and I was like, you were like, where are we? So sorry, we took that quick detour. No matter what, this piece of shit was really good at throwing Hatchet. Okay, that sucks. And it's not a great, like, little tick for Hatchet throwing. No, it's not.

You don't want to claim him. Nobody wants to claim him. I don't know her. I do not know her. I don't know her. I don't know her. I don't know her. I don't know her. I don't know her.

I don't know her. I don't know her. I don't know her. I don't know her. I don't know her. I don't know her. I don't know her. I don't know her.

I don't know her. At 15 years old, Alfred went to Cotswold, approved school Borestall, which if you remember Carl Panzerim was definitely a Borestall kid. There was a couple of others that we have covered that are Borestall kids. Seems like it doesn't turn out too well. I don't, I have never really read one that turned out well, but I don't think I'm really looking for Borestall stories that turned out well. You should start doing that. Or maybe they don't write out, write about ones that turned out well, but I don't think I'm really looking for borstle stories that turned out. You should start doing that. Or maybe they don't write out, write about ones that turn out well. Or really don't try to let it. But it's basically for like emotional difficulties, behavioral difficulties.

You know, he was, he went here after he was caught stealing a bike. So see, he's graduating to not just stealing food for necessity, but now he's just stealing for the out of it. The sad thing is, is like back then, the reform schools were not even trying to reform you. Oh, no. God only. And we know what happened to Carl actually, while he was there.

Oh, yeah. We can presume that something similar probably happened to this dude. Yeah, definitely not great. He was described while he was there, and he's 15, remember? He was described as angry and miserable. He was difficult.

He was cruel as angry and miserable. He was difficult. He was cruel to animals. He was very weird and like, forceful upon like women, like where this was like a boy's, you know, bore still. But the women teachers, he was like very weird with and very forward with. They were very uncomfortable with him. So already, something's brewing here. Yeah, something's off. He's being aggressive and forcing himself at women already. We don't like.

He's just an asshole. He actually went to prison for a year when he was 17 for theft. And when he got out, he finally was like, you know what, I gotta get a real job. I gotta stop stealing shit. I gotta make some money. So we got a job in construction.

Okay. And co-worker said he was definitely an asshole. Awesome. But he was good at the job. But they said his temper was fucking nuts. Like he had just like a hairline temper that just shot off. It always sucks when those people are really good at the job because they're like, well, I can't care to you, but you suck.

Exactly. It's like, oh, why are you good at this? Shut up and get your job done. Yeah, and he also, everybody was kind of uncomfortable with the growing obsession he had with knives. That will make people uncomfortable. Because he was also,

10 times. Yeah, and he was, it's because he was also really strong, like weirdly strong. So he's obsessed with knives, and he's like superhuman strong. He's weirdly strong. So he's obsessed with knives and he's like, super human strong. He's like strong.

He could climb scaffolding like a monkey climbs. He was like, do do do do do do do do, spider up a wall kind of thing. And his arms, they said were like tree trunks. He was just like a big strong guy. And they were like, he made us uncomfortable. He also had like a real obsession with sex like in a real aggressive way.

Like he always talked about it. He was obsessed with it. He was very like, you know, like, crass about it. Rude, they just didn't like it. He was, he made everyone uncomfortable. He was also very near-sighted. You're like, so, he was so strong. People were freaked out about it. Light knives a lot. People were freaked out about it. And then on top of all

that, this motherfucker was near-sighted. I'm like, me too. But no, he, the fact that he's near-sighted is like a little important later. And it actually draws back to the Murder Mile UK podcast and what Mr. B. Kinn and Dunn there posits about what might have happened the night of the murders. Near-sightedness may have had something to do with it. Oh. It's very interesting because he was near-sighted, like very near-sighted, like could not see. This motherfucker. Like, you're so fucking near-sighted.

You know what I did? He didn't do anything. Just like could not see. This motherfucker so fucking near sighted. He didn't do anything just like a little bit. He fucking did it. He was huge and strong. He was obsessed with knives. He was a fucking professional hatchet thrower. He was obsessed with sex. And he couldn't fucking see.

Yeah. So hard. He could just only close up. He could not see over there. Like he could not see over there. Not a far side in Motherfucker. He was such an asshole and he had such an ego that he refused to wear glasses

because he thought they were for weak men. Go fuck yourself. And glasses are for sexy, man. I was just gonna say, we were running out of glasses. We are a man in glasses podcast. Only. In fact, I actually convinced Drew recently not to get LASER. When I thought he was, Drew was gonna lose his glasses.

We were sad. I'm upset about it. I was. I was trying really hard not to be sad about it. And then I was like, blah, blah, you can't do it. You're like, please don't do it. And he was like, I think I'm just gonna get new glasses. Hell yeah.

And then he got new glasses. It's just a quick side track. Motherfucker got new glasses and oh my god. That's how I feel. You know glasses. John wears glasses. We love glasses. We're great glasses.

Just one more quick side note. Drew showed us the glasses that he got, yes. Yeah. He got glasses that are even better than those, and he was too nervous to show us. Drew's adorable. He's so cute. I love Drew.

I love him. I'd love Drew and I love glasses. And you know, he's the complete opposite of this guy. Of this guy. There's your segue back because this guy refused to wear glasses. Like what? Okay.

So, okay. Okay. Okay. He's an L7 Weenie. We don't want you in the glasses club anyways. Yeah, you don't put a good weeny. Okay, okay. He's an L7 weeny. We don't want you in the glasses club anyways. Yeah, you don't go long. Stay out of here. Now, around this time when he was coming into, you know,

like a young adulthood, he was getting into his 20s. God, he's not even in his 20s. That's the thing. Like, at this point, he was probably like 19, I would say like a just got in that prison, you know, that whole thing. I'm totally, that was a joke. And it's because that was a joke.

I think people are like looking at my prison record. She does not have a prison record, I promise. I do not. But this is when it's getting, like, it's coming out of, like, him being a teen and being obsessed with sex and being weird around girls to becoming an adult who's obsessed with sex and knives and fucking. And at this point does it seems like he's even had any sex?

Well now and he has and now he feels like he is owed it. Oh. Like he's one of those. He's one of those. I feel like one of those. You know what those are. He feels like he's owed it. If you're a woman and he wants it, he's owed it and he's gonna take it.

So this becomes his thing. Like, he's gonna take it if you don't wanna give it. Ew, what the fuck is wrong with that? Now, around this time, he became fixated on a girl named Nelly. Nelly was 16 years old and he was 20. Wrong. And he saw her with her friend at a park.

I think it was literally like a playground. Like, I mean, she was 16, but like, you know, it kind of like hang out at a playground. Yeah, we used to do that also. Just like sitting on the swings or something. Yeah. He literally stalked her around the perimeter of this playground for hours.

And he just walked. He didn't like the mire. Just what the fuck? Like he wishes. Yeah, I couldn't even. He just walked around staring at her and then followed the two of them down the towpath. By the way, followed them, then he followed her to her home all the way to

her door and then asked her out after he stalked her to her door and cornered her. What? Unfortunately, Nelly was apparently into it and she said yes, they started dating and within four months they wanted to get married. So she was love bomb? Yeah she was 16. Yeah she was groomed. Exactly. And her mother fucking hated him. Of course she did. His number from the second she met him. We are a mama stan pod hell yeah. Like they know. We love a good mama. We love a good Mama. We love a good Mama. We also love Mama Todd.

Oh, we love Mama Todd. So, I'm so glad you brought Mama Todd up. On TikTok, go find Mama Todd. If you haven't found Mama Todd by now, just be prepared for the level of comfort that your soul is about to be doused in. I love Mama Todd. MA, M-A-T-O-T.

And she'll just sit down with her lunch and she'll just talk to you. She'll be so soothing. And she'll eat lunch with you because if you don't have any, but you have in the lunch with. She's just find Mama Todd. She just wants to put so much love into the world.

And it better love her back. And you know what we do? I love her so much. Yeah, Yalena showed me her. I love put so much love into the world, and it better loves her back. And you know what we do? I love her so much. Yeah, Yalena showed me her. I love her so much. I saw like she, she, like people were being dicks to her at one point, and I was like, I don't know if you could be mom-a-tot.

I don't know if you could be mom-a-tot. Then you need to go figure stuff out. You gotta go elsewhere. Because she's literally like the most wholesome pure human. Yeah. But yeah, go find mom-a-tot and just give, tell her that she's great. Yeah, she's way like the most wholesome pure human. Yeah. But yeah, go find Mama Todd and just give, tell her that she's great. Yeah, she's way better than this guy.

This guy, great segue. So the mom, not Mama Todd, but this mom. Yes. This mom was like, he's rude, he's a loser, he's a thief, he's too old. He's not gonna provide anything for you. Like, he's irresponsible. Like, he should have been interested in a girl your age.

Like what the fuck is wrong with this guy? All of these were correct. Mama was right. Check, check, check, check, check. So what they did was he got her pregnant on purpose so that it would force the mom to allow them to get married. Oh, that's so good. Which is always good to bring a human life

into the world just to like spite someone. That's a great reason to do that. It's also just like why are you using a 16 year old right now? Like that's the thing. And now she's gonna become a whole last mom and her childhood is just gone because of your dumbass. Because you're convincing her that this is what's the right thing to do. Oh my god. The level of like just mental torture this man.

Yes, he's terrible. Oh, I don't like him. So they had a baby girl on May 20th, 1952. And this is the year before the murders, by the way. She's a baby girl. He wasn't able to be there when she was born though, because he was in prison for six months for burglary. This poor, both of these poor little girls.

Also, Nelly's mother would still would not allow him to come in the house. So she was living with, Nelly was living with her mom and the baby, but the mom literally refused to allow him in the house. She was like, no, you're terrible. Yeah, stay away from her. She said, you just went to prison for burglary,

do you even hear for her birth? Right. Like get out of here. So she was able to see, like Nelly was able to see him, but only outside on the steps and in like the alleyway next to the house. Good. Now, so it just makes it even worse

that when he committed these crimes, he had a baby girl, a barely like a one-year-old baby girl and was married. And at that point, Nelly was pregnant again. Oh, no. They'd only been able to see each other outside in alleyways and shit and somehow it happened.

Now, until the bitter end, Nelly did defend her husband. She simply could not believe that he had done any of this. But remember, they never lived together. Right. They got married after like four months, they wanted to get married, which of course, I'm not saying if you get married after four months, you don't know each other.

No. It's just, they've never lived together. Well, and it married after four months, you don't know each other. No. It's just they've never lived together. Well, and it's they've never, that's a whole different getting to know someone. And you're 16. Like, this is probably your first very serious relationship. Exactly. They saw each other for a few hours outside the house. They did not live with each other.

So it's like she knew him, but did she know him? Yeah, because you really start to know somebody when you share living quarters. It's a very important part. I, in my opinion, I should say, it's a very important part of the whole relationship. I think so too. I think you really get to know someone when you live with them and I feel like it's like, that's when you know that.

I always say, like when we have kids, I'm gonna be like, you should live with your, whoever before. Significant. You get, you get, decide to get married, because like, you should live with your whoever before. Significant. You get decided to get married, because I think you should. You just learn a lot. Yeah.

And it's like, so I'm not saying she's not right, or she's wrong or right in her beliefs that like she can't imagine that. No. The father of her child and her husband would kill two teenage girls. Yeah. But he did rape a 14 year old.

He admitted to that. and like multiple own people. And it's like, so if he's capable of that, he's capable of a lot, unfortunately. And it's like, but she's 16. Yeah. And she's been fully groomed. Yeah, it's like she doesn't know. And it's like, what a fucking position for her to be in. And she's gone through like a fucking whirlwind

of a life whirlwind. Like she's pregnant twice within a couple years and married, like not even 18 at this point. Like, that's a lot. So then July 15th, Alfred Whiteway, because remember he was being held on the rape charges. He pled guilty at Old Bailey to those rape charges. Now, we Old Bailey is in my story.

And Old Bailey has been in a few things, like Burmanzi horror, I think. But he's been in a few different. That's cool. That is cool. Look at Old Bailey. I was kind of, when you said it, I was Burmanzi horror, I think. Yeah. And a few different. That's cool. That is cool. Look at Old Bailey. I was like, when you said it, I was like, oh my god, I just read that.

Yeah, look at that. Now, again, this is the part where I want to bring back the near-sightedness thing. Because if you listen to Murder Mile UK, which again, I'm going to link, he thinks this is his like idea of what happened. I think it's really smart, is that he thinks maybe what happened that night, because it's very strange that he went from, he's basically a serial rapist,

but he's raping and attacking women and young girls that are alone. And he's leaving them alive, and then he just leaves. Right. Like he hurts them, but he hasn't killed anybody before these. And then all of a sudden he does a double murder. And a double rape. Like that's a big thing. So what he suggests on Murder Miley UK is that when he saw either Barbara or Christine

coming down the toe path, he saw that one light because the other light was broken. So he saw one light. he thought it was one girl, and remember one of them was ahead of the other one. So he attacked her, not realizing that there was another one. And then when she came to help her friend, he just panicked and had to go for everything. Like it just went way out of hand. Because he did say that he did, like he maintained a million times when he finally talks about this that he didn't mean to. And so what Murder Miley UK says is, maybe that's the truth.

Maybe he was a serial rapist and this wasn't the intention. Yeah. Maybe not. Like it's the very, like who the fuck knows, right? It's like this is an idea of like maybe that's how, at least that's how it escalated to what it did. Who knows if he liked it or intended that.

But yeah, exactly. That could be the reason. I thought it was a really smart idea for like possibly what that could be. Yeah, that's it. That's a very good. So that's a very good hypothesis. Yes, yes.

Thank you. A theory if you will. Theory. No, that's the one we're looking for. Also on July 15th, about a month and a half after the absolutely brutal murders of Christine Reed and Barbara Songhurst, police constable Arthur Cosh walked into the Kingston police station for his shift

and he put a yellow and black hatchet down on the table. This is a police constable. And they're like, what the fuck? And he said, so I found this in my patrol car. And they were like, what do you mean you found this in your patrol car? And he said, well, the day after we transported whiteway to be charged, that was over two weeks ago, by the way.

Oh my God. I found this under the seat of my patrol car two weeks ago, by the way. How did he sneak a fucking hatchet? Oh yeah, so he put it in, so this police constable, he put this, he found it in his car two weeks ago. And he placed it in his police locker at the station and didn't tell anybody about it. For why? Not sure. Then he went out sick until July 8th, sought in his locker

when he came back from being sick and was like, oh shit, I have wood to chop at my house. I thought you were going to say, I should tell someone I have this. Oh, you thought? I did. Look at you. That's when everybody should have thought right now. What? So he took it home and he chopped fucking wood with it. This man found a hatchet in his police car said, Whoa, that's weird. That's not mine. Put it in his police locker. When Odsik came back, found it again, and was like, oh, I should bring this home and shop wood with it.

I'm done. And then on July 15th, when he walked into that fucking King Simpolice Station first shift, apparently he had grown one fucking brain cell, and was like, ooh, this might be the murder weapon. You know that his wife realized that. His wife came out while he was fucking tripping. Where did she get that fucking...

Who's hatching this? That news are all thounded about Palluska. And she was like, that's evidence, moron. Like turning that in. Oh my God, I couldn't believe this. Like how the fuck did this happen? How did, how did even leave the X in the car? How did this happen? How did, how did even leave the acts in the car? How did this happen?

The police were fucking distracted when they were driving him to the station. She just motioned drive. I literally was like, drive, drive. And they had not thoroughly searched him when they picked him up. Clearly, if you miss a fucking hatchet, you was able to hide that murder weapon

in under the back seat. They didn't see him take a hatchet. He was able to hide that murder weapon in under the back seat. They didn't see him take a hatchet out of his pants and slide it under the seat. That's comedy. He had the axe in his overalls, and they didn't search him before picking him up. So they unsuspitioned of aggravated rape, by the way. They did not search this man to put him in the car.

Also, they're lucky that he didn't hatch it then. That's the thing. This man was being picked up because he had raped someone after banging them in the head with a hatchet. With that hatchet. And you don't search him to make sure that I don't know he doesn't have a hatchet on him. Like what is wrong?

What the fuck? What is wrong with everybody? It's, and they were so distracted driving that he didn't, he was able to pull it out of his pants. It's right. And I did under the seat and they weren't like, what are you doing back there? Right.

Also, was he not handcuffed? What the fuck happened? So many questions. So many questions. I have many things to ask. Like just like a lot. That is absolutely bonk hair. So once PC Koch decided that it was time

to bring the murder weapon back into the station, did he get like fire? Who the fuck knows? So they send it for testing, but Koch had chopped wood with it. It was dulled. The fingerprints were gone or completely compromised. He should have been able to leave the off that for.

Exactly, any blood that was on it is compromised. Right. I just don't understand how they like once. Yeah, it was rendered almost useless. And I say almost because although it was now officially inadmissible as evidence. No. Can't use it.

Thanks PC cost. And that could have been like the smoking hatchet. Oh yeah, the smoking hatchet. That's what it would have been. Wow. It was the yellow and black hatchet that was described. It was right there. They should have like retrained that man after that.

Yeah. Like what the actual well super intended detective. Hanon was ready to use it to secure his confession that he knew he was very close to with our friend. So he was like, although I can't use this in trial, I can use it for a couple of other things. They also sent white ways clothing for testing to see if there was any blood on them.

So now Hanan is still grilling white way at Brixton Prison, where he's awaiting charges for the rapes. Now, he denied, denied, denied, denied. And he kept saying he was at his wife's mother's house with her and his daughter the evening of the murders. And they said, you're not even allowed there. I was just going to say, but remember, his wife's mother won't let him in the house.

So interesting alibi, you just threw out there. Survey says? Yeah, that's probably no. know. So he said during an interview, quote, I'm going to keep my mouth shut. I know what you coppers are. I had nothing to do with the girls you're wasting your time. The bloke who did that job was mad. I would go my distance to get a bit from a girl

who hadn't had it before, but not to murder her. Oh my God. Oh, okay. Oh, okay. So Fred. So he was like, I will rape people. I do not murder. That's basically what he, I will rape a virgin.

But I'm not murdering that. Like what the fuck? Also, how do you know who's a virgin and who's not? Like your, a pawn looking at them. Yeah, you're the fucking worst. And also you're nearsighted. You can't tell anything.

And you won't wear glasses to correct it. That's so, the most wild thing. Fucking nearsight. And also get this, you're nearsighted. You also can't see far away. So there's that. Yeah, fuck off. He also admitted during this, which is wild,

that he knew Barbara Songhurst. What? He lived a few doors down from his mother, and he was at least familiar with her, he claimed. He was like, well, I know Hushia, like I've seen her. Oh, shit. Well, actually, he was quite familiar with the Songhurst's family.

Whiteway had dated a girl named June, who was now married to Barbara's brother, Danny. Whoa. And he had been livid about her leaving him. So. But this, he was actually friendly with Danny at this point, Danny Songhurst, so much so that Danny came to his defense

when he was first accused. Oh. Because he didn't think that he was capable of doing something like that. Yeah. In the song, her family knew of him. Like they knew who he was. And they all thought he was just this quiet, normal boy.

Like they couldn't imagine that someone was like this. No, he was friends with their son. Exactly. And they're just nice people. Yeah. Like why would they ever think that somebody who's at least like Friendly acquaintances would do this son and with like this family would ever do something like this So that was interesting and he also revealed at this point to the police how much he loved knives and hatchets And he kept saying like I really have come like very pretty didn't say it like this

But he said like very proficient in throwing them and getting a target from far away. Like, which again, he's near-sighted, so that's really crazy. I can't review. That's actually like mildly impressive if he wasn't such a dick. He near-sighted? He's near-sighted. So this is when he said, actually, you have my hatchet. No.

And they were like, we have your hatchet. And he was like, yeah, and he said, the Kingston Police have got it. When I was in the police car, I tucked it under the seat. And then he said, when they picked me up, I had it in my shirt. He said, you fucking idiot. In the car, I was sitting in the back

and I pushed it under the seat with my foot. At Kingston Police Station, I was alone for a while and I wedged it under with my hand. Wow. So not only did they give him enough time to take it out of his shirt, put it down on the floor and kick it under the floor. I'm gonna please.

He left him a little bit. So he could wedge it further under with his hands. Guys. So time for an external investigation. There's a lot going on here. So at least this is a boom moment because it was his hatchet. He admitted to it, but they still needed to get a confession.

He's not confessing anything. No, it's just like, hey, you have my house. He's just being a dick. So they got him to admit through casual conversation that he kept hatchets and knives on him, like in his saddlebag that he had on him. Because he said, I just like throwing them and I like to just have them.

If I see a tree, I can throw them at him. If I see a tree, I just throw a knife at him. I see a tree. I just throw hatch at it. You would think that you wouldn't have so much pent up aggression then. Every time you see a tree you just throw and I pat it like the fuck. Yeah, you would think that would work. Also trees. Yeah, I'm alive. Just okay. Let's not hatch at them. Well, then he said he remembers the last time he used his hatchet that the police now had. And he said he was using it at old hamlock. And he was throwing it at trees. And he said that's, and they said, well, that's where the girls were last seen

on the day they were killed. Is it old hamlock? Fancy that. And he was like, oh, look at that. And he was a dick. He was basically like, oh. Like, he was like, that doesn't do anything. So like you can say whatever you want.

That's fine. Oh man. They then told them, well forensic tests showed that there are large quantities of blood on your shoes. The shoes that about. Like the crepes sold shoes that everybody said you were wearing when you like raped people. That was the truth.

He there was blood, but there was like a small amount of blood on his shoe. But they were like, there's a large quantity of blood. He called their bluff and was like, I don't fucking believe you. And they were like, okay, well that didn't work. So then they said, I didn't see literally like sound works. It's a little scary when I was reading this. It's not like the murder and the rape or anything like that.

Not that I know of, but like, that's all, that's a different day. But like, out of tune, why is I'm like, wow, that's familiar? You know what it is? It's cancer and then he's a Gemini cusp. Ooh, this guy. This guy's a cusp. He's a cusper. Now, then they told him so they're like,

they're going down the line of things and then they told him, and this was true. They said the curve of the ax that is yours. They said that matches the head wounds for both the victims perfectly. The pathologist confirmed it that that is the murder weapon. It is a perfect match. And he was like, okay, like I'm still not going to say anything. And then Han and went further. He had the knife brought out that was used to stab them and it was placed on the table. They had found that knife in the river when they had dredged the river at Old

Tam Lock where the girls were last seen. So he puts it on the table and he's like, this yours? Like, did you throw that in the water? You thought you wouldn't see that again, huh? And Alfred looked visibly shocked at that one, like, oh, fuck. Shit. And said, oh, you got it out of the water, did you? And they were like, OK, but then he just stopped talking and it's like shrugged, like, fuck this guy. And he was like, so then Hanon brought it up a notch. I love Hanon.

And he had the hatchet brought out and placed on the table in front of him. Again, it was useless legally, but he was trying to elicit some kind of emotion to get that confession. So Hanon said, when that hat chick got put down in front of him, he said that all the color drained out of his face.

And he asked him, were you kidding about the blood on my shoe? And obviously Hanon said, no. And he said, you know bloody well, it's me, don't you? That was the next thing he said. And he said, it's all up, you know? Well, I done it, what a mess. He said, I'm mental, my head must be wrong. And that's a direct quote.

I think you're just looking for an insanity defense. I think you're just an asshole, my guy. They're like, weird, you seem to be pretty highly functioning before that. Yeah, and then all of a sudden, you're very angry and like, oh no, I must not. So he said, again, he didn't mean to kill them, but he said, I can't control myself. I went around women. He said, when I see a woman, I just have to have her. Jesus Christ.

And they were like, yeah, we know you're a rapist. So we got that. Now about the barber sung her St. Christina Reed murders, he said, quote, I only saw one girl. She came round a tree where I stood and this goes right with the murder mile UK theory. And I bashed her and she went down like a log. The other screamed out down by the lock. Never saw her till then. I nipped over and shut her up.

Two of them. And then I tumbled the other one. And then I tumbled the other one. No, me. I don't know what that means. And if it might have been like translated wrong. But if it had not been for that, it would not have happened. And then he said, so he's saying, I didn't mean to kill them. I just wanted to rape one girl. It all went to hell. And then he basically blames her friend for screaming when her friend was being attacked. Said, it never would happen.

If that didn't happen. And then he said, put that chopper away, it haunts me. What more do they wanna know? Absolutely wild. And then he signed the confession. Also, I love that he's like, never would have happened if it weren't for that girl. No, never would have happened if you weren't a disgusting rapist and could keep it in your fucking pants.

Exactly. If you asked when it wouldn't have happened. If you weren't sitting in a fucking bush at 11 p.m. waiting to slam a hatchet into some poor girl's face as she rode by a bike. That's when it wouldn't have happened. So he signed the confession, but then before he, once he signed it, he said, I have one question. And they were like, what? And he said, have you found her bike? Because one of the barber's bike was missing. And they said, no, we haven't. And he said, have you found her bike? Because one of the Barbara's bike was missing and they said, no, we haven't. And he said, then I shall say it's all lies. You can tear that up.

I didn't give it. What the fuck? And they were like, we're not going to do that. You can get fucked. You just did a confession, you fucker. And they just left. They were like, fuck you. Now, August 20th was his, he went in and got charged for the murder of Barbara Songhurst.

Under British law, he could only be charged for one crime at a time. Okay. So Barbara was the one he was charged with. So the trial began at Old Bailey. It was referred to as the duel at Old Bailey because it was like a very heated series of exchanges. The defense tried to accuse Hannah of tricking whiteway

and assigning a confession. The confession was very like tainted because he took it back. They were saying that now there was no recording of it, obviously. There was no recordings of any confessions because that didn't happen until 1991. So standard practice was the confession was written down in a notebook and other officers present were there to witness it. And then the confessor signs to acknowledge that that is truth, and that's that. Now apparently the big argument was whether it was okay that he had put that axe in that knife down on the table to elicit the emotion.

Why not? And then he was asking whether the axe was placed on the table. Like the crux of the issue became, was the axe on the table still when he began to confess, or was it put away? Why the fung, would you come down to that small, but that's why things got like crazy.

They had his wife, Nelly, on the stand pregnant. Like the acid looks sympathetic. No, it was a six day trial, and he was found guilty after the jury deliberated for 47 minutes. Wow. He was sentenced to hang at once worth prison. He appealed, but it failed.

Good. And according to Murdermile UK, he wrote to Detective Hanon six weeks before his execution and basically accused him of fabricating the confession. Like wrote him a letter and was like, you know what you did. Hmm. Which is like, whoa. Do you believe any part of that?

I don't know. I think he's a bullshit, but who knows? I don't know. He may have just been scared to die. Exactly. And he told him he knew that he knew his word was going to be taken more than his was. Like, he was like, you know your word means more than mine does. And I don't know why you did this, but like it worked. I'm going to die. Either way, we know you killed them. So, well, then, then he wrote a letter to his mother

saying that he didn't do it. He did not kill these girls. And he said that he did figure though that he should probably put to death anyways because he had raped that 14 year old girl. So he said, I should be put to death anyway. Agreed raped that 14-year-old girl. So he said I should be put to death anyway. Agreed. Which it's like, whoa. So December 22nd, 1953, he was hanged at Wadsworth Prison. The axe that was used the hatchet,

it is still on display at the Black Museum at Scotland Yard. People love to display an axe. I know, I've talked about two axes on display. That's weird. I don't know what I mean to do that. When you did the Veliska. Yeah, I've talked about two axes on display. That's weird. I do not mean to do that. When you did the Velisca. Yeah, there's a lot of axes on display.

On display, on display. But also just to end this, one of our listeners, Holly, wrote in about this case, and it turns out that her grandmother is Barbara's son, her sister. So it's her great aunt. Oh shit.

And she said she's a badass. And that she, you know, like she told me the whole story of the murder miles, excuse me, the Toe Path murders. And she was like, I hope I did this like proud, which you did a great job telling it to us. And I was like, whoa, that's wild. Our listener, Holly, her grandmother was Barbara's sister. Yeah.

So it's her great-nature. Wow. Isn't that crazy? That is. And I'm sorry about your agree. Yeah. And thanks for writing us in that, Holly. I appreciate it.

I know. And that is the story of the Toe Path murders. Wow. That was devastating. Yeah. It really was. It felt really bad for the families here. Yeah.

Seriously. There was so much. Every crime is so senseless. But this guy, the scuttle-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-stool-st the family's here. Yeah, seriously. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much.

There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much.

There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. There was so much. to rape a 56 year old woman. Yeah. Like on the toe path too. Yeah. So it's like, hollow. And it does make sense to me that he was attempting

to do the same fucking thing to one girl and then shit got out of hand and he went berserk because he has a terrible temper. Exactly. And he was probably immediately set off by how this wasn't what he planned. His plan was foiled. And that he wasn't going to be able to rape someone

the way he wanted to rape someone then. So his anger got like exactly over. And he knew he had to do something to get out of it. So to me, it makes the most sense that he is the guy. And I think however that confession was elicited that I don't know because recordings are so hard back then, but like it also just doesn't sound like like why would it matter if the thing was put away or not? Well, and they like to say that like this particular police officer, officer like Detective Hanon,

that he was like the cop who would do anything to get a conviction kind of thing. And they kind of like point to him, like dredging part of the, the temps to find his preference. He's looking to defend it. But he's trying to find like, and at that point he was trying to find the body about a girl.

Yeah. Like, yeah, maybe that, that I'm okay with. Go do anything. Like why not? So I think they were trying during the trial, they're trying to make it very much like, he goes way too far. Too far.

He goes too far and he went too far with this confession and he just pushed it until he got one. I feel like in this case, he didn't. Yeah, this one doesn't, from what I have read and researched, and what I think is like knowledge that you have if you read this case, to me, it doesn't seem like he did anything wrong. No.

And then did they ever find her bike? I don't think they ever found her bike. And he never would say. If they did, or at least I didn't see anything, if they did, then I'm sure it was like, you know, given back to the fam. Or I imagine it might have been in his possession, maybe, who knows.

But that's not recorded, so. Oh. Yeah, I wish we knew. I know. Wow, well, that was a very sad, sad story, but you told it very well. Thank you, I appreciate it. Yeah, it was a bummer one.

Yeah. But one that needed to be told, of course. And again, go listen to that podcast. It's really cool. There's a lot of cool cases on there. Sweet, listen. And if you're in the UK, he does tours. Oh, go on a tour. I don't know exactly what tours,

but like he's very knowledgeable. So I imagine they're very interesting tours. I imagine. I imagine. Well, we hope that you do all of that. Yeah. And we also hope that you keep it weird. But not so weird here on the toe path,

doing weird things. Yeah. We'll be doing weird things on the toe path. Don't do that. Bye. Bye. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today.

Or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. www.slaftserve.com.