Morbid - Episode 380: The Supposed Diary of Jack the Ripper & Revisiting The Suspect List

Episode Date: October 19, 2022

You thought Alaina was done with Jack the Ripper but you were wrong…like really wrong. In this episode she’ll deliver us YET ANOTHER possible suspect and also the supposed diary of Jack the Ripper. This diary seemed to be written with the intention of throwing one James Maybrick under the bus and goes as far as to blame Florence for the killings of the canonical five. Do you think it could be real? What are your thoughts on this new suspect? Let us know by sending an email over to [e-mail] with “Charles Cross” or “Ripper Diary” somewhere in the subject line.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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of your home. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's ANGI.com. Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash and I'm Alena and this is morbid. You've seen it, you know it. It's us. You've at least heard it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, you've done all of that. It's like... What time is it? I was gonna say it's late, but what we say, it's not gonna seem late. Yeah, well it's late. It's so complicated.

It's pretty fucking late, guys. Late, especially today. It's just been a long day. It's been, you know, long day. Long day. But you know what? Here we are. Here we be.

I told you we were going into part two of the Maverick saga and we are here. Yeah. It just made me want to say, Ma back music. And I don't think you'll get that, but tell me well. But I like that you said that.

I don't know what it's for, but it was, you know how like rap like, rap songs have like the openings to them. Where it's like, damn, son, we're just fine. This. Sure. You haven't, you've never heard a damn son, where'd you find this song in my car before? No, I don't think I have. Or I haven't heard that part of it. There's a knee back music one too. Well, there you go. So that's exactly like this. And we talked to you in the last episode about Florence Maybrick and her in my opinion, very wild conviction for murdering her husband through poisoning that they could never prove he even died of. So for one out for this

flow, here's the thing, maybe she could have, I don't know if she did because we can't even prove that he died of poisoning. So I really think it's a blue point. He just died of double-dose thing. Now, I told you we were going to get a little more into James Maybreak. We're really going to get into a weird part of James Maybreak is what we're going to do. Because he is listed among the suspects of Jack the Ripper in a lot of places. Yeah. And he's on every list.

I keep seeing him. I kept looking into him. I'm like, why though? And it seems to mostly be he's a rich guy. He was kind of an asshole. And he was around the area at the time. That'll do it. So when I first saw him on there and I was reading about him, like, well, you're not a good suspect,

that's not compelling at all. I really liked the ones that had something else to it. Yeah, anything else. Yeah. But then in 1991, a man named Michael Barrett, and I met 1991. I really thought he was like a wrong day. I know, actually, to be like, you're saying the wrong day.

I was like, I think you meant 1890. I did not. I mean 1991 a guy named Michael Barrett who was a scrap metal merchant by trade Came forward with a truly magnificent discovery He came to a British Pubbler Pubbler what's a Pubbler? I've never I've never heard of a long day a British publisher Pubbler. I don't really know he went, I don't really know. He went to a publisher.

He went to a publisher. It's like a publisher and a publisher. They do both. Get you a tradesman who can do both. So he went to a British publisher and he said, hey, I have this diary and he claimed that this diary was written by none other than Jack the Ripper himself doubt it. This would have been astonishing by itself, if that's all it was. But this diary also hinted, but never explicitly states the name,

but it's very, you'll see why, that Jack the Ripper was actually none other than James Maybrick also doubt it. So this is Jack the Ripper's diary. And in it, it is very clear that Jack the Ripper is James Maybrook. So already it's like, whoa, the thought of Jack the Ripper keeping a diary is just like kind of all. Exactly. And don't you worry, I'm going to go bit by bit. You know, I wasn't going to let this slide without really picking this apart. I feel like he didn't go home after brutally murdering people and right, like, doors die right?

Yeah, it does. It knows a day. Oh, trust me, that's not what he wrote. So, in case you guys don't remember, I'm a full-blown ripperologist now. How could you forget? I'm gonna get a certificate to go on my wall because that's how bad it is. That's the thing you can do.

I honestly don't know, but I just wanna make one. I'm gonna, I'm gonna word. I have been driving John crazy for literally months at this point. Just John. You know why it's just John? I'm not just John, but you know why it's, I say John, because it's like,

He lives with you. You get to escape at night. And at night, while we're in bed, I'll just be like, but you know, it doesn't make sense because blah, blah, blah, and he's like, oh my God. He's like a Lena, I'm sleepy. He's like, I'll just be like, but you know, it doesn't make sense because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, oh my God. He's like, Elena, I'm sleepy. He's like, I literally can't in the other day.

I was like, can we go to London? And he was like, that would be wonderful someday. Like, let's go to London someday. And I was like, can we go to follow the path of Jack, the Ripper, so that I can solve the case once and for all. And he was like, that's not exactly why I wanna go to London. But like, I feel like all three of us want to go to London for very different different reasons. I'd like to go because fashion. Yep. You'd like to go because Ripper and John would like to go.

Because the Beatles. Because the Beatles. That's why Andrew's just coming to be there. Just to love them. Just to be true. Just to be true. But either way, this diary is saying, hey, this was written by Jack the Ripper. way this diary is saying, hey, this was written by Jack the Ripper and Jack the Ripper happens to be James Maverick, our caught and merchant friend who died of some kind of illness that could have been maybe arsenic poisoning, but probably wasn't. More likely it was just an accident to overdose of some kind. Yeah. So in fact, the diary tells a harrowing tale of madness, depravity, anger at his unfaithful life, and then suddenly redemption and remorse. Redemption for Jack?

Oh yes, it ends with a Jack the Ripper sign off eight days before James Mayberg's death. Hmm, weirdly, it had to be in the room with him when he died, if that's the case, because remember he was really sick, bedridden for at least two weeks before he died. Yep. So we're claiming in the diary that he was writing this in the room where all his staff and his wife and doctors and nurses were all around in the room where it happened, in the room where it happened. I was so excited to be the one to make that reference.

Thank you for that. So we're saying that he's writing this in that room with all these people around, where he is supposedly delirious at times. Like he's gonna be able to hide this from people in that state. He did a little like, misery business. Yeah, and then on top of that,

we're claiming that this happened, and then he was able to hide it, and then he died in that room. Someone else bought that house, and we didn't come across this till 1991. We think so, not. It's almost like it didn't exist at the time and was made later, you know? Is that what happened?

Weird, I don't know. But Michael Barrett first said that he changed this story quite a bit. He said, first he received this diary from a friend who just gave it to him in a pub one day. What luck? Here, would you like Jack the Ripper's diary? Yes, thanks for that. Sure would. Oh, but that friend died. So no, you can't confirm or verify this in case you were wondering.

That friend is dead. Too obvious. Of course, then he was like, oh no, you know what it was? It was found during a house renovation. Okay. Yeah. It was found in the wall. In the house renovation. Okay, yeah, it was found in the wall. In the wall, in the wall. In the wall, in the wall. And yeah, in the wall.

So of course, the publisher was like, um, that all sounds a little too good to be true. And when he was asked more questions about it, he admitted that he actually received the diary from his own wife and, thanks Ann. And Ann had told him that it was actually a fair a family heirloom of hers. Jack the reverse diary is an heirloom. Literally next sentence I wrote Jack the Ripper's diary was a family heirloom. Like what? I just what?

passed out amongst generations. Like, what's it being in that family? And you're like and that's down amongst generations. Like, imagine being in that family and you're like, on your 16th birthday. Yeah, it's now your time to read Uncle Jack's diary. What the fuck? Your family might be fucked. I would literally be like, has anyone thought to go to the police?

Is anyone like through the generations? Thought to go to the police and say, I know who did it. Yeah. So apparently again, apparently no one was concerned that a family just had held onto this for decades and decades and never told anyone. They were just like, yeah, that sounds right. Apparently I'm concerned. Now, it doesn't say in this diary, hello world, I'm James Maybrick, but it's pretty clear

whoever wrote this is trying to point the flashing neon finger at James Maybrick. There are a lot of entries that make reference to pieces of James's life and family. Theorists that like this diary and like the conclusion that this is actually James Maybrick as Jack the Ripper also point to the idea that he must have been so enraged by his wife having that one affair. Because remember Florence did have an affair with Brian Leigh there. So the theory here is that James Maybrook was so pissed that she was having this affair that he took it out on sex workers in Whitechapel. Okay.

Question mark. Question mark. So we're just blaming the Jack the Ripper murder is on a woman and on Florence of all women. The woman hasn't been fucking railroaded enough. Now she is the genesis of one of the worst crimes in history. I know. I know. Check out whose Cheerios she pissed in. Yeah. Check out. It was someone. We also remember that he had several affairs and fathered several children.

Yeah. We all remember that. This is a like, okay, just make it sure. Yeah. So the diary is really, so I read the whole thing. You can read it. It's like a book that was published where the author believes that it could be genuine.

I don't, but that's, you know, that's my opinion. And at the end of the book, they have, like, transcribed the entire diary. You can also see, like, a nice picture of it, like, the handwritten, because it's obviously handwritten. But the diary is really way over the top in my opinion. I'm surprised anyone fell for this. It's very, there's a lot of whores this and whores that every five seconds. Very what you would expect from Jack the Ripper's caricature diary.

Like very much what a teenager would think Jack the Ripper speaks like. Kind of thing. Like very much. Very much like a bad, bad fanfic. He uses the words, I am so clever a lot. He talks about Aberline ad nauseam. Like he writes poems about Aberline. It's very over the top.

It mentioned Battle Cree's House, I believe twice. Which remember, Battle Cree's House was what the Mavericks home was called. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. Oh, yeah. I forgot about that. That's another reason it's quite clearly pointing to James Mavericks because that's the name of his house.

Yeah. It's a very obvious nod. And it talks that length about how he feels like a fool because his wife is, quote, horing herself out to a, quote, Horing Master. Whoa. I assume we are meant to a quote, hooring master. Whoa. I assume we are meant to believe this is Alfred Breyer. Like the hooring master.

This is also just not really in line with them, even like James May brick and Florence, even when they were fighting with each other. Like even they're nasty. And that's the thing, like they had, obviously some, some shit going on. But even their staff who admittedly seemed like they really didn't like Florence never heard him call her a whore or anything really.

Never called like he was never reported as using that term often. By their own testimonies at the coroner's inquest after James's death, even the fights like right before his death, where they were like at their worst, he referred to her as flurry and bunny. And now in his diary, it's things like, quote, I shall take the whore tonight, speaking of Florence, or quote, the whore wants to come on the trip to see Michael. Jesus. We know James Maybreak at least once physically abused Florence. So we can't absolve him of all possibility that he called her these things behind closed doors. And in his diary where it's private, that's the thing. So I'm by no means going to say that he

didn't use those words. He very well could have. Because if he is capable of punching her in the eye, he is absolutely capable of calling her a whore. So there is that. I just, you gotta present all the facts here. But still, in the diary, it's just so over the top. It feels very performative. It does. An entry reads, because I'll go through a few entries

because I'm just, I, John, was like, will you save this for the podcast? Because I was just going off. He was like, he was like, we use save this for the podcast because I was just going off. He was like, he was like, get on the microphone now, let it out. Like go get it out. He was like, when I came in, he was like, get ready, yeah.

She's on one. She's on one. He was like, you should just call Ash right now. Yeah, he literally, it was like 11.30 at night and I was still going through it. And he was like, you should just call Ash

and start recording now because this is too much for me, Dan. So an entry says, quote, receive a letter from Michael. Oh, look, it's James's brother, Michael. Perhaps I will visit him. We'll have to come to some sort of decision regarding the children. I long for peace of mind, but I sincerely believe that will not come until I've sought my revenge on the whore and the whore master. This is thought to be one of the references to Florence and her pair more. It lays the groundwork for this being Florence's fault, which is nice. It mentions James Mayberg's

children, where it says, quote, strolled by the drive encountered Mrs. Hammersmith. She inquired of Bobo and Gladys and much to my astonishment about my health. What has the whore said? Mrs. Hammer Smith is a bitch. The fresh air in stroll did me good. For while I succeeded in forgetting the bitch in her horing master, Bobo is a nickname they very often used for James Mayberg Jr.

Little James. Oh, okay. Bobo was like literally what they called him. And then Gladys was the daughter. Again, we have a lot of bitch, we have a lot of horror, we have Horing Master. And then you get a lot of crime scene hot takes and emotions after the supposed Ripper murders here.

Like one of them says, it has taken me three days to recover. I will not feel guilty. It is the Horing bitch to blame, not I. me three days to recover. I will not feel guilty. It is the horing bitch to blame, not I. I ate all of it. It did not taste like fresh fried bacon, but I enjoyed it nevertheless. Okay, immediately wronged you. She was so sweet and pleasurable. I've left the stupid fools a clue, which I'm sure they will not solve. Once again, I've been clever, very clever. I don't buy this.

You can believe whatever you want about this. This maybe this ring's very real to you, if you're hearing it or reading it. And I'm not here to tell you that I know for sure what is right and what is wrong here. To me, it's very jack the ripper. It's a character. It's not the reality.

It's not the real killer. It's very jack the ripper. He also refers to his crimes as his campaign. And he also says like my dirty deeds. So by now, then he suddenly uses his noggin because I'm reading this. And I'm sitting there going, so this guy's just going home and writing all this down. He's getting away with everything, but he's just going to write it all down.

Like what? Yeah. But suddenly he starts using his noggin and he says, I'm beginning to believe it unwise to continue writing. No shit. Clever. No shit. And then he says, if I am to down a whore, nothing shall lead the pursuers back to me.

Except this diary you're keeping in a home that will become a crime scene soon. down a whore, nothing shall lead the pursuers back to me. Except this diary you're keeping in a home that will become a crime scene soon. I am to believe a human who is able to leave no trace of himself at every crime scene. Did these things in the dead of night pitch black in minutes on crowded streets and then disappeared without ever being detected? Detected. Is now writing this all down in an easily discoverable diary that is never found somehow, and also now breaking the fourth wall kind of

by questioning the logic of this very act that he is doing. Yep. No. Yeah, no. Because now he's saying they're being like, huh, I wonder if I should be doing this. I'm going to do it anyway. Well, and even when he just said, like, I won't feel guilty. I don't think Jack the Ripper, whoever he was,

would have even spent a second even thinking about feeling guilty. Oh, you have seen nothing yet. No, wait until we get to the end. Oh, God. So the other thing is, when we talked about James Maybrick and Florence Maybrick, a big crux of the issue was that the things that weren't being allowed

in Florence's trial were the fact that James was heavily into medicating, like self-medicating, and using chemicals. He was an arsenic eater. So in this diary, he mentions medicines too much. Like we get it. Your James Maybrick, the walking prescription medication wearing a human suit. Like we get it. Your James Maverick, the walking prescription medication, wearing a human suit. Like we get it too heavy-handed. Someone read a lot about Maverick's tendency to prescribe himself medicine and take like lethal chemicals and they figured they should make sure

that it was in the book. To put that in the book. Like, maybe just do a book report about it essentially, because they mention it that much. And again, who knows? I truly, my stance on this is complete bullshit. This is not a real diary. But I'm also, and I think I talked about this in the five part series we did on Jack the Ripper, I'm a staunch believer that the deer boss letter is a hoax. Right. I don't believe it. It's the one I refuse to acknowledge or even entertain as possibly Jack the Rippers. I don't believe he named himself Jack the Ripper.

I don't think that ever happened. I don't think he looked at his deeds as funny little games, which is what he wrote in that letter. It isn't a funny that like you look at that and you're like, no, funny little games. That just doesn't ring true to me. But isn't it funny that in this diary, he writes, I could not resist mentioning my deeds to George. I was clever and brought up the subject by way of how fortunate we were, not having murders of that kind in the city.

He agreed with me completely. Indeed, he went on to say that he believed we had the finest police force in the city. He agreed with me completely. Indeed, he went on to say that he believed we had the finest police force in the land. And although we have our fair share of troubles, the women folk can walk the streets in safety. And indeed, they can, for I will not play my funny little games on my own doorstep. Ha ha. The ha ha is also from the hoax letters. Yeah. This is somebody who believes those hoax letters or at least like them and decided to adopt the same manner. Exactly.

Now, he mentions coming up with a rhyme and it's a rhyme about one of the victims. It was like this really like crass rhyme that he came up with in the diary. And then he's talking about it in the diary and he says how upset he is that he forgot the chalk at the crime scene to write that poem down. Okay. And I feel like this is all very taken from the well-known things about the Ripper case. Right.

One, he didn't leave any rhyming chalk poems anywhere. But we do know about the chalk writing that Sir Charles Warren erased himself because you couldn't wait for the crime scene photographer's to come show up. Mm-hmm, idiot. But that's there, it's a big thing in the ripper case. I feel like that's a little nod,

saying like, I wish I had the chalk with me. And then he writes, I have read all of my deeds and they have done me proud. I had to laugh. They have me down as left-handed, a doctor, a slaughter man, and a Jew. Very well, if they are to insist that I'm a Jew, then a Jew I shall be. Why not let the Jews suffer? I've never taken to them." You just said that you would be a Jew.

And if I wasn't already convinced that the author of this diary really loved that deer boss letter, this is pretty similar to when it says, they say I'm a doctor now. Ha ha. Yeah. Like, can you be a little bit more subtle here? He talks about the Mary Kelly crime scene in the diary. He wrote, I left nothing of her face to remember her by. Except her eyes. You distinctly left her eyes untouched. Did you forget that? Right. Or were you just never at that crime scene? He also never says what he did with her heart. He writes everything in this diary.

Graphic details. He relishes in talking about it, but no mention of the heart and what he did to it. No bragging to himself here. Right. Is that because you don't know where the heart is? Exactly. So he talks extensively again about whores and taking whores and how they're, he always

says they open like a ripe peach. Jesus Christ. That's the phrase he used. And he talks about Aberlines so many times. Like I said, he makes rhymes about Aberline. He refers to him thinking about his own children and how it distracts him and he wants to stop thinking about his children because it's ruining what he's doing. Ah, that's stark.

But then he talks about Florence as the whore and the bitch and his unflinchingly vile about her. But then all of a sudden, so he's gone on and on. Like, Florence is the worst thing ever. She's a whore, she's a bitch, she's this, she's that. Talking about this disgusting thing, they open like a right peach, this, that blah, blah, blah. Then out of nowhere, he's suddenly having regrets. Out of nowhere, it's this very, like a poorly hastily written novel. He's suddenly things turn. Yeah. He has regrets. He now loves Florence and he wants to move forward with her because love has saved him from himself. What?

He literally writes towards the end. My God, I'm tired. I do not know if I can go on. Bunny and the children are all that matter. No regrets. No regrets. I shall not allow such thoughts to enter my head. Tonight Tonight I will take my thinking knife and be rid of it. Now, he said, he said, throw it deep within the river. So now this diary is allowing itself to say, oh, the reason you never found a murder weapon is because it's way deep in the river. You'll never find it.

Yeah, exactly. Throw it deep in the river. I shall return to battle crease with the knowledge that I can no longer continue my campaign. "'Tis love that's spurned me so, "'tis love that she'll put an end to it.'" No, bye. He then wants forgiveness.

He says, quote, tonight I will pray for the women I've slaughtered. May God forgive me for the deeds I committed on Kelly. Probably not. No heart. No heart. Again, no mention of what he I committed on Kelly. No heart. No heart. Again, no mention of what he did to it, just no heart. Did that, it popped up in the paper and you saw it. He's eager to talk about it in graphic detail throughout the diary, but now he's shy.

He doesn't want to talk about that crime scene anymore. But then, the peace-dialogue resistance, he weaves in a perfect explanation for his death at the hands of Florence. He claims he told her the truth. In this diary, he says, I told Florence what I did. So now he's claiming that James Maybrick told Florence he is Jack the Ripper. Yeah.

And he says, quote, the pain is unbearable. My dear bunny knows all. I do not know if she has the strength to kill me. I pray to God she finds it. It would be simple. She knows of my medicine. And for an extra dose or two, it would be all over. No one will ever know. I've seen to it.

And he literally, so he's saying with an extra dose or two, when he himself was well known to dose himself over. Exactly. An extra dose or two isn't going to do it for over. Exactly. An extra docer too, isn't gonna do it for him. And you know that. Like he knows that.

He knows that. Yeah, he's not gonna, but I just love that it's worked so perfectly in there that like, oh, so there was this big trial and Florence was convicted and almost hanged and then she was released and wow, okay, we can really weave this into the story,

into the narrative here and wow, okay, we can really weave this into the story, into the narrative here and say that actually, James Mayberg told her he was Jack the Ripper and then told her to kill him and she only did it because he told her and that she had to. I do not buy it. So it makes this big legend with it that like, oh, she did kill him and it was because she found this out. It's ridiculous. What if you were trafficked into a cult over shot nine times, or fell in love with a vampire, or went into a minor surgery and woke up one week later, paralyzed.

What would you do? I'm Whit Missaldine, the creator of this is actually happening, a podcast from Wondry that brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events, told by the people who lived them. From a young man that dooms his entire future with one choice, to a woman who survived a notorious serial killer. You'll hear their first-person account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Each episode is an exploration of the human spirit and personal discovery.

These haunting accounts sound like Hollywood movies, but I assure you this is actually happening. Follow this is actually happening wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to ad free on the Amazon Music or Wonder app. Hey there, fellow podcast listener. It's Elena and Ash and we're taking you back to the days before streaming services. Whoa. You know when you would come home from high school and it was only a few hours until that TV show, everyone was watching was about to come on. Well, in 1999, that show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

In our podcast with Wondery, the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer, we take it back to 1999. So get out your knee high boots and paste that poster of Angel on the wall. It's time to enter the Buffyverse. Some of you avid morbid listeners already know what we've gotten store. Join us. Join us as we sway our way through Buffy's drama, action, and romance. Episode by episodes. Slay see, follow the rewatcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen early and add free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Now he then signs off with the theatrical flair of like a Broadway star. Luch. He says, quote, soon I trust I shall be laid beside my dead mother and father. I shall seek their forgiveness when we are reunited. God, I pray, will allow me at least that privilege, although I know only too well. I do not deserve it. My thoughts will remain intact for a reminder to all do all how love does destroy. I place this now in a place where it shall be found. I pray whoever would read this will find it in their heart to forgive me.

Remind all whoever you may be that I was once a gentle man. May the good Lord have mercy on my soul and forgive me for all I have done. Toud it. I want you to line that last passage up next to every single crime scene and every single morgue photograph of the canonical five and tell me if that's the same guy. No, that's a hard no, my friends. That is a hard no. And he literally writes at the end, I give my name that all known of me.

So history do tell what love can do to a gentle man. Yours truly jack the ripper. This was dated May 3rd, 1889. He died James Maybreak, died May 11th, 1889. So he wrote this while Florence was an nursing him day and night. And like about to kill him. Yeah.

And here's the thing that really gets me. You're telling me that the first fucking card Florence could have pulled when she was accused of murder was that James Maybrick admitted to being Jack the Ripper and also had written a detailed diary of the crimes that was in his room and she didn't pull that card, sentenced to hang and never said, hey, I don't know if this helps my case, but he was literally Jack the Ripper, and I can prove it. 14 years in prison, and she never said, hey, this sucks. Would it help if I could prove he was Jack the Ripper?

It's astonishing that people believe this. No, that's really insane. She never pulled that card. Right, never was like, hey, did I mention that he was jack the fucking ripper and he has an entire diary of the crimes in his room? Right because I I can see where like she would have if he was Jack the Ripper and I'd admitted this to her He could have told her that but he wouldn't she wouldn't have known about the diary. No, right, but it's like You he's you could literally be like, that he's Jack the Ripper.

Right. Like, and who knows? Maybe, like maybe he doesn't say she doesn't know about the diary. He could have told her. Yeah, he could have. And either way, it's like, dude, he did minute it. At least bring it up.

Right. It's like, what if it didn't have a paper? She would have. Yeah, of course she would have. Or she would have even said it later when she got out of prison and like talked about prison reform. She'd be like, you know,

who should have gone to prison though? Jack the river. Jack the river. Who was my husband? Who died? That's so cool. But there's also a section where he talks about grabbing a drink after one of the murders or,

I don't even know if it was after one of the murders, but it's like when he was like scouting or something. And he talks about having a drink at the post house, which is a pub in Liverpool. But at the time of the Ripper killings, it was not called the post house. It was called the Muckmitten. Oops.

Okay, hello. Yeah. So that's a problem. A lot of people wonder who believe this diary, say that the way he writes it is the P.O.S.T.E. House And it was actually called the P.O.S.T. House And they think that like maybe you could be talking about the post office And that he had a drink and then went to the post office or he did some it doesn't make

That's like when people just go it's like me fighting for angel It is on the rewatch, straight on too's on the rewatch or check it out. Yeah, it's true. Ash went really hard. I respect it. Thank you. But yeah, this is one of those cases where it's like, this we don't respect.

We don't. This is not okay. This is a bunch of shenanigans. So all of that. So that's what that dire contains, like some of the really like juicy bits. So this was brought to the publisher. All of that is in there.

And the publisher was like, no, I don't really know about that. And I guess Warner Books, which was the US distributor that was speaking to the British publisher about actually publishing this with a wide release. But first they were like, okay, this seems a little weird, but they were like, we really want to authenticate this. It's got to be a way to tell. So they spoke with Kenneth Rendell,

who is an expert on manuscripts and historical documents like this one. And he had actually been the one to figure out that the Hitler diaries were fraudulent. Oh. So he was especially prepared to take on this kind of investigation. So Rendell teamed up with Joe Nickel, Nickel, who was the, he's an author himself,

and they began investigating this manuscript. So Joe figured out pretty quickly that he was like, this seems like someone who's really trying to prove they know things about the River case. Like this is just one of those like, hey, I know these were little details. And he said the handwriting was a problem immediately for him. It didn't match James Maverick's handwriting in any way, shape or form.

Like this would have had to be him disguising his handwriting to like a different level. To the full extent. It just like, and for him to sit there and disguise his handwriting like that, well, supposedly right after he's committed these crimes doesn't make a lot of sense. It's also supposed to be pretty hard to disguise your handwriting. It is, yeah. Exactly. And what he said about it was, it was as though someone had tried to make yield and

teaky looking writing by adding curly cues. And it really does. So it was sent for forensic testing, and this is where it gets tough, because there was no real conclusion one way or another Some tests said it was inconclusive How old it was some said it was definitely not old at all, but they still couldn't tell like by paper and stuff Three different experts said three different things about the ink used Even though it was thought that it could be mildly old. they were like, maybe it's in the last like 20 years,

what we could say. Realistically, it was not the Jack the Writer's diary. Not the last hundred. No, definitely not. So they concluded it was very likely a hoax. And in 1993, there was a report created that said, this is likely fake. Warner Books was like, no, thank you.

We don't want to publish that. But Hyperion Books published it with author Shirley Harrison, who seems to sincerely believe that it could be genuine. So, you know, there's that. In 1994, Michael Barrett then confessed that he had forged the diary. Oh, okay. He used, he said he used an old family scrapbook album, and he bought ink and pen to make it look authentic. Like, and then he said he would type out the words and give them to his wife Ann, or handwrite,

or she would handwrite them, or he would dictate verbally to her and she would write it. Okay. There are, I think, two affidavits that he signed explaining this. Uh-huh. Then later he said, just kidding, I didn't do that, it's real. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah. It's also believed again that the diary itself is older. Like it's an older album that was used to create this forgery, but definitely not for 1888.

No. Basically, it's a hoax, but it might just be hoaxing from like 1980 or something, you know, like not that old. And again, bear it admitted to doing it, but then took it back like twice. I used that he signed something to affidavits that explain how it was done. And then he said retracted. Not true. Retracted. My lie just was a lie. Yeah, just kidding about it. But get this. James doesn't get off the hook yet.

Even if this is a hoax, he's not off the hook yet. Okay. We haven't cleared him. Sure, there is no actual evidence to say he's jacked, but that doesn't mean the Maverick name is forgotten. Actor and author Bruce Robinson believes that Michael Maverick is the real ripper. He believes that Michael, who was actually a singer and composer, which I didn't know. Fun fact. They believe that he killed people

and sent the ripper letters while he was on tour at the time. Crickets. He has done a ton of research. He truly believes these theories. I'm not here to say he's full of shit. I don't agree with his theory at all, but I also don't have my own smoking gun evidence either to claim that I know who Jack the Ripper is.

Tobias does. So who, honestly, I'm kind of on the Tobias train at this point, but he is really fired up about this. Like, he has written things about it. He believes it. Who will not say? He's one of those theorists who are on the Freemason Jack the Ripper train.

You know how I feel about the Freemason theory. Freemason. The Freemason. You know how I feel about the Freemason theory. The Freemason. It's free. You know how people are like bitch, it's eight. Eight, I'm like it's late.

It is late. You know how I feel about the Freemason shit though when it comes to the the Ripper theories it just it doesn't work. People thought that Sarah Winchester was also a free mason and I was like y'all they don't love women. Yeah there's many issues with that one. Y'all but he believed so Robinson believed that Michael and his brother James Maverick were free masons but he was into the idea that this whole rip or thing was a Masonic planned ritualistic crime and that it had to do with James's death and that people involved with Florence's trial and the investigation were all involved on the ripper murders. It was very deep.

Okay. It's a lot. I don't believe that. He says Michael hated Florence and was in the areas of the river killings at the right time because of the tour. He would hit the right places at the right times. Why wouldn't Michael just kill Florence if he didn't like her that much? Yeah, I wouldn't do that myself. Yeah, but I don't know. I give he's capable of killing five other women that brutally and he like really didn't like Florence and then He thought that she killed his brother. He wouldn't try to kill her. Who maybe, maybe he has an explanation for that.

I have not found it. All right. But he thinks Michael moved on from White Chapel after the Mary Kelly murder and went to the aisle of right and then to the US. And he connects these crimes with the servant girl in Isle Later crimes. That's what it's called.

I don't know much about those. We are gonna cover those's what it's going to much of a follow-up. We are going to cover those eventually, but he believes that there's a connection. Okay. So there's that. I don't necessarily believe that one. You know, I didn't let us know if you do. I don't believe that one.

So I just added, you know, we got to close on something that like has some meat to it. Because to me, those don't really have meat to it. I don't feel good about them. I don't feel good about them at all. So I had said I would return to some Ripper theories and suspects after a short break from that five-part series. And here I am.

It was a pretty short break because the May bricks lead right into it. So let's talk about Charles Leachmeer or Charles Cross. Now this is the suspect that we spoke about on the Tobias Forge episode we did a few weeks back. I'm really upset with myself that when you said or Charles Cross, I didn't say if you nasty. Oh, I love it. So I'm saying that now.

So you're saying that right away. You're saying that right away. You're saying that right away. So Tobias is convinced this is the guy. You know, our friend Tobias. Tobias. So I was compelled to look further into him because admittedly, I love Tobias forage.

And also, I do. I do, I don't know if you guys know this. But I had also completely passed over even looking into Charles Cross. Very much when we did our series because he wasn't a suspect mentioned a lot or with any real compelling evidence on the surface. So I just kind of like passed over him.

I was like, you know, whatever. Then I took a dive after this, because I was like, well, I got to know. Because Tobias was very, I mean, if you listen to the episode, he's convinced. And he had like backup, he had reasons, and I was like, oh, his answer to that question was like 10 minutes long. Yeah, I was like, wow, in a good way.

Yeah, and I was like, I got to know. So I took a dive. He's actually got of a decent suspect. You do be diving. It really shows how this case is like a labyrinth of theories and evidence. Like it's no wonder it hasn't been officially solved because the sheer amount of information is stunning.

And you can just keep uncovering and uncovering and uncovering. It's wild, I love it. Now I know why people get obsessed with this case because it just never ends. Now when Tobias laid out his theory and the reasons for it, we were intrigued. We were like, I remember that name.

Because it really does make sense that this guy is local, he's unassuming. He said his mom lived near the crime scenes. Oh yeah, we're not there yet. I was asked that. Yeah, we're not there yet. We're asked that. Yeah, we're not there yet. We're gonna get to it, don't you work? And he was someone that was likely looked at,

talked to, or at the very least mentioned somewhere in the investigation. And it makes sense that Jack the Ripper probably was mentioned in some report somewhere, like the real one. Yeah. Because he was probably close to a crime scene or somebody saw him or something

and we just don't know it. I don't think he was probably close to a crime scene or somebody saw him or something, and we just don't know it. I don't think he was some traveling singer, like Michael Maibric, some random cotton merchant who just rolled in like James Maibric. Yeah. Or a Freemason gang hellbent on ritualistic murder. I don't think any of that. Probably not.

I do still believe medical knowledge is important here, but I'm willing to suspend that a bit to entertain this theory, because it does fit very well. So this man's does not have medical knowledge. Not in the traditional sense. Okay. So now they're untraditional medical knowledge. Yeah, because like, you see,

he's not a doctor. Yeah, yeah. But I was just kidding. Now Charles Leachmeer or Charles Cross, as we know him, and we'll get to that Nasty there you go and we're gonna get to the reason why there's two names here was never a suspect to the police Huh, please never named him as a suspect. He was never questioned as a suspect He was never even really thought of other than being the most unlucky witness ever

Like really in case you don't remember who we're talking about here, you're like, why, what name is that? He was the Carmen who came across Pauline Nichols' body on the way to work early in the morning. He was the first person to find her at like 3.43.45 am on August 31st, 1888. And she was still warm when he found her. And it was astonishing that the killer had gotten away in time to not be seen. So she was killed on Bucks' Row, which if you look it up, you will see it's this very long line of housing and not like the winding alleys or streets

you might be picturing like Miter Square or anything where like Catherine Edo's was found. Yeah. There wasn't a lot of places for this person who did this to run and hide quickly. It's a pretty long street you're gonna have to tear down. So in 15 minutes before she was found, a police constable, a PC, had gone through there

and seen and heard nothing. Right. Because this PC was on his beat through Buxro. Now, there were a couple of other PCs that patrolled the routes at each end of Buxrow. Okay. No one heard or saw anything there either. And initially, it was reported that PC John Neal

found polynicles while on his beat. But shortly after this, a man named Robert Paul came forward and said, actually, no. I was there, and so was another man before PC John Neal was there. So what happened was at 3.43.45 AM, there is a lot of debate about the specific time that this happened. Because no one had a watch, and we don't have a timestamp anywhere when this guy was finding this.

It is all kind of conjecture and different reports. And, you know, Robert Paul saying it was this time, and Charles saying this time, and the PC is saying it was this time. It's very hard to piece those things together. What we can tell is that it was sometime between 3.40 and 3.45 a.m. That Robert Paul was walking Bucks' row on the way to work. He was also a Carmen. Now, he said he's usually very unguarded along that area, especially Bucks Row, because people got mugged and assaulted there a lot. That'll do. And he's like, and at that time in the morning, it's really dark. There's no lights there. Yeah. This is not a great area. So he said people always had their guards up here. So as he's walking down the long dark row,

he spotted a man standing in the street. And he went to the opposite side of the street as he went to pass him because like I said, people were wild and back there on the street. So he didn't want to fight. He was like, I don't want to go near this person. I'm just going to walk. Staying away from all that.

Yeah, but this man who was in the middle of the street saw him and approached him and he was like, and this guy came up to him and said, come look at this woman. What a weird way to put that. And he was like, okay. And he went with him and right across the street where he was looking at before was a body.

And it was so dark they couldn't see. It was a woman. Obviously they saw the dress, they saw the bonnet. And they said they couldn't see how deeply her neck had been cut because it was so dark, they couldn't see, it was a woman, obviously they saw the dress, they saw the bonnet. And they said they couldn't see how deeply her neck had been cut because it was dark. And I think her clothing was pulled up pretty far. And she was the one that was wearing everything she owned, I think. No, that's catharinetos. Oh, okay.

But she was just, they was just kind of like pulled up over her. And Paul said he, so Robert Paul said he put his hand on her chest. And he initially said he could detect what he thought could be movement But this other man said her hands were cold Okay, now he did not feel movement. I don't think like I don't think he actually felt movement because her neck was cut down to the bone Oh, so I mean an attempt had been made to cut her head clean off, it seemed. No air was making its way through that windpipe. Could she have gasped for air one final time? Maybe.

But literally it had to have been like the last second of her body, shutting down if he felt anything. But then, because this other man who had beckoned him over here, this is Charles Leachmeer. Or Charles Cross. Again, we're going to get to why his name is two things. But if that's the case, if he put his hand on her chest, if he felt some kind of movement, this really indicates Charles's in trouble here. Because that would mean she was dying, as this is happening, which would mean why are you there, Charles? So they both didn't know what to do, apparently, but they were both late for work at this point. And this wasn't the kind of thing you could use as an excuse, apparently, to be late for work.

Wow. What could you use? Not real, sure. So they both agreed, but this was at Paul, at Robert Paul's suggestion, that they should tell the first PC that they came across on their route to work. They were like, let's go across on their route to work. They were like, let's go start walking back to work, but we'll tell a police officer because we will come across one. So they come across PC, Jonas Meisen, and they told him what was going on.

Now Meisen later testified at the inquest according to reports that the other man who wasn't Robert Paul, so this would be Charles, said to him, you're wanted in Bucks Row by a policeman, a woman is lying there. Or in other reports, he said, you're wanted in Bucks Row and doesn't say the policeman thing. Either way, he never said anything according to Mison about murder or death, just you're needed in Buxrow. And I think you would tell him why? Exactly.

It's pretty urgent that you're needed in Buxrow and like maybe tell him what he's about to come across. Like I let him know you're gonna go find a dead body there. And you would even think that you would be so just like stressed out that you just saw that, that you might just need to lift that. Cause it doesn't body over there. Like you need to.

Yeah. No, it's yeah, and it's just strange. And also if he did say a policeman wants you down there, why do you say that? That's not the truth. Right. That would be a lie and that would be a weird lie. So either way, we go back and forth about this a lot.

If you look any of this up, there's a lot of discussion about it. A lot of people have varying opinions on it because Charles Leachmeyer, Charles Cross, did say to Robert Paul when he first brought him over to the body that he or when they talked about it later, he said like he thought she was drunk and she had passed out. Yeah. So I think it was Robert Paul who said that he believed that she had been, basically she had been raped and that she had died in the struggle.

That's what he assumed because he was like, you know, she looked like she had been through and ravaged kind of thing. So PCMise and asks the men what their names and addresses are for the report because he's like, you witness this. So obviously, like, please tell me. And Robert Paul gives his name and address. And the other man says his name is Charles Cross, of 22 Doveton Street, Bethnal Green.

The thing is, his name is Charles Leachmeer. So he lied about his name to the police officer. And did he ever go by that name other than that time or no? So there is something that will connect here, but no, he never went by that name. Oh. So there is something that will connect here, but no, he never went by that name. Oh. But there is something that can connect it at least to why he chose that name, but he's still lied.

So what was that? So we're going to get to that. But just a note, Charles is also in case you start looking these things up in like newspapers and stuff, he is referred to in newspapers sometimes as like George. He's referred to as Charles Allen, which was his middle name. Charles Andrew, which was not his middle name. And in fact, according to one newspaper report, Mizen actually initially said at the inquest

that this man stated his name was George Cross. Why did it go from George to Charles? It's tough because sometimes these newspapers can get shit wrong and things are reported wrong. Okay. It can be tough. But what we do know is that he said his last name was Cross. Totally.

That is what we know. That was like confirmed by Mizen. That's in the official report that he said his last name is Cross. And he gave the correct address. So Charles actually also didn't reveal himself as the man who had actually found the body until the second day of the coroner's inquest. What?

And it was only after a newspaper had outed him because Mizen had said a man named Charles Cross told me. So he didn't come forward until it was in a newspaper. That's weird. And he was like, oh yeah, like that's me. Why did he wait? That's really weird. Right, it's just like that's a little strange.

Again, these are strange things and they can be pointed to as guilt but you can also flip it the other way. I'm be like, well, he had a family. Maybe he was like, didn't want to get involved with this. He didn't like that he was involved with what he was doing with, but still strange. There's like a whole last thingest, and you found the body.

You should probably be there. That's the thing, like you found the body, my dude. Yeah. So the theory here is that he was actually, like the whole thing that this restaurant is that he was actually not just found to have found the body, but that he was interrupted by Robert Paul.

He was interrupted in the middle of his evisceration of Polly Nichols. His choices were to run and possibly be caught or identified because that would be suspicious as fuck and there wasn't a lot of places to go. Or he could stay and pretend that he had come across Polly's dead body first. And also make sense for why her head was not cut clean off. Exactly. And it was dark, which would cover his bloody hands, and he could have wiped them on polys, clothing really quick, and known what a known.

And he's also like a, um, what, wait, what does he do? A Carmen. Oh, okay. But he was a Carmen for a meat, meat place. So he transported meat. Yeah. He worked with butchers. He likely had butcher experience. Right. He likely knew about butchering and sla transported meat. Yeah. He worked with butchers. He likely had butcher experience.

Right. So he likely knew about butchering and slaughtering. Yeah. That's when I said like traditional medical knowledge. No. But you might have known what it takes to slaughter and butchered. Me, I'm still hanging on to my, me, my, that me, I'm still hanging onto the idea that I think human anatomy and physiology is something this person needed to know. So that is something that I haven't found with Charles. So that's why I can't totally lay all my, I want to for Tobias, I do. But I will say this, he is very compelling. Yeah, but I'm not totally sold yet. Maybe something will sell me, but he's a very compelling, this is a very compelling suspect.

So my question is, why wasn't he questioned or arrested, at all? Like arrested, I wouldn't say, but why was he questioned? Yeah, you found the body. He was the first one to discover the body, which at the very least means the cops have a duty to rule him out as a killer.

That's just standard practice. Like, he isn't automatically the guy who did it, but you have to kind of prove he isn't, because he was the first one there. They didn't do that. And she had been killed minutes before he found her, like minutes, that's pretty fishy. Yep.

And no one heard or saw anything. No witness saw anyone leave that area. Fishy. None of the PCs who were patrolling at consistent increments around and through Bucks Row saw or heard anyone. Fishy. And according to some, the idea of this being an interrupted murder makes even more sense when you look at the wounds and how she was found. When Paul was brought over to the body by Charles, he said they couldn't see any wounds because they were covered by her clothing. This is not Jack the Ripper's style. He opens them up.

He leaves them eviscerated for all to see. He was never covered as crimes or the wounds he leaves ever. So now when he is clearly not finished doing what he intended to do here, the coroner also believed that this was the case that they was interrupted. Not necessarily by Charles Cross, but he believes that this polynecose was not finished. Yeah. Now, he is, so he's not, so now he's clearly not finished doing what he intended to do here.

He's heard someone coming and took time to cover the wounds before running away. Like, he would not, like if this was another man, another Jack the Ripper, he covered up all the wounds. Yeah, that made me weird. And then he got away. Like, remember, the body was fresh and investigators and coroner believed this murder had occurred minutes before she was discovered. So he ran away that quickly, but for some reason took a minute to cover her up.

Like that doesn't make sense. He wouldn't have had that minute to do so. Yeah. It makes sense that Charles could have been in the middle of eviscerating. He saw her her rubber paw approaching. He saw him cross over to the other side of the street and he thought, well, I can stay here next to the body and hope this man doesn't see and tell someone that something was suspicious or happening, or I can cover her a bit and tell him, oh, no, I found this woman come look.

He chose the safer option instead of hoping he wouldn't be identified later when he wasn't ready to be. Right. Because he wanted to make sure he knew exactly what Robert Paul saw. Mm-hmm. I can't let him leave without knowing what he saw. Sure, he might have walked by, he might not have seen this woman because it's dark,

but I can't know that. Unless I bring him over here, he was a control guy. Jack the Ripper was a control guy. He liked to be in control of all the situations. And even though this was a situation where he was not in control, like Liz stride later, possibly, he found a way to find control by pretending

to be the unlucky working man who stumbled on this body mere seconds after Jack had absconded away. Sure. You can see that. But you can also say that this was likely the first of the canonical five, Pauline Eckles, and Robert Paul testified that her dress was up above where the canonical five, Pauline Nichols, and Robert Paul testified that her dress was up above where it should be, and he pulled it down in respect. So how far up was it? We don't know. Right. We don't know if it was just a little bit up, and he just pulled

it down to just to like cover her up. We know that later, Jack the Ripper would cut the dress open, like tear it to shreds and leave it all hanging out. But maybe this was what he intended to do and he just got interrupted and ran. Like he didn't get to that part yet. He didn't actually cover her up. He just didn't get to that part. The only issue there is that there was PC patrols at either end of Buck's Row and one that

headed right through. I believe every half hour. So he must have timed it perfectly to be able to get out of their unseen by any police constable. Also, we have the notion that Charles worked at Pickford, so like I said, as a meat car driver, which was on Broad Street at the time.

Most of the five canonical victims were found along the route he would take to and from work. So that's just like what he did when he was going and coming from work? This is pretty convenient. He is going at weird hours in the night. Like, look, he's going to work at 3.40 in the morning. Yeah. And add in to this that his mother, like you mentioned, lived at Berners Street right off of Duttfield Yard, where Liz Stride was found.

Oh. And you have some serious meat to this theory, kind of a pun intended there. I, yeah, because I remembered Tobias being like, his mom was right there. Yeah, and when he said it so quick, and he just kept going, that I was like, well, I wanted to be like, wait, is mom lived where?

Like, what? I didn't know that. Well, now you know. And I was like, well, I wanted to be like, wait, is mom lived where? Like what? I didn't know that. Well, now you know. And I didn't. I had no idea that his mom lived there. And I looked it up and that is true. His mom did live there. And he had lived with his mom at some point.

And he visited her often. Now, the man who was last seen with Liz Stride was wearing, like last seen when she was alive, was wearing what people referred to as a deer stalker hat, any witnesses. Yep, although Carmen and Butchers were similar hats sometimes, they're more like Scally Capish when I was looking at pictures, I don't believe Charles was likely seen with his victims

before his deeds. I don't think he was in a lot of sense. Like he wasn't pretending to do business with them. Yeah, he at least wasn't pretending to do business out in the Yeah, he least wasn't pretending to do business out in the open if he even was, I don't think. Because one, I think he did them on his way to and from work because it was the wee hours and like, if it wasn't him.

He could sneak up on someone. Yeah, this is all hypothetical, allegedly kind of shit. Two, Charles was married. Oh. Although no one gave a ship back then, it seems like when you really look into it. No, at all. It likely wouldn't have been a problem, but it would have at the very least drawn attention if someone knew him and spotted him with a sex worker out in the open.

It would have drawn attention to him. And I don't think he was looking for attention here. So a little dig into his past told me something very interesting. Oh, about him. Something I'm sure I was hoping I could be like to buy a stew. You know this part, but I'm sure he does because it sounded like he was really into this. You never know. But he Charles had been part of a tragic event before the Jacker, the Ripper murders in 1888.

So on Thursday, December 21st, 1876, in an area that is now called Cloudsley Place. It used to be called Elizabeth Terrace. And on this day, December 21st in 1876, at around 4 p.m., Charles Leachmeer was driving his wagon, the same pickfords meet wagon that he drove a few years later. He was driving it along the roadway of Elizabeth Terrace when two small boys jumped out from behind something on the side of the road Oh, no, it would have blocked his view like he couldn't have seen them four-year-old Walter Williams Wasn't able to stop his friend was and was able to pull back He jumped out in front of the wagon

Williams was run over by the wagon wheel four years old and later died of his injuries. Oh, that's awful. When an inquest was held about the death, the boy's father, who was a jeweler at the time, said, quote, on Thursday last, I was told that my boy was run over and killed. I made inquiries and I've reasoned to blame the driver as I believe that he did not exercise proper care. We're talking about Charles Leachmeer. But when I first saw that, I was like, Oh, yeah, what do you do? Several witnesses who saw the actual event, which like, Oh, I can imagine that.

That's horrific. They all said that the driver, Leachmeer, tried to pull back like very much tried to pull back, tried to call out to the boys before it happened. One witness said they saw the wagon going very slowly. He was not going too fast, he wasn't careless. It wasn't on purpose. He tried everything he could to not hit this child. And it wasn't careless.

It was just a really bad accident. The jury also agreed after the inquest that this was an accidental death and that Charles Leachmeer was not to blame. How terrible. But he kept his job and he kept driving that wagon. He was driving that wagon in 1888 when he came across Pauline Nichols. He was going to the job where he would be driving that wagon all day. So nothing changed. But did it change him? I feel like an event like that has an effect on you. But do you think that it would have the effect where you feel so guilty and distraught about killing somebody that then you would go and kill more people?

I don't think it's a direct link. I think did that change him fundamentally as a human being? Maybe. Maybe that did. Did he did this in combination with other things? Start turning into some kind of pathology here that would lead into this? I don't think the two are directly connected, but it's it's a very massive tragic event. Like a life altering. Like he killed a four-year-old boy and then drove that same wagon all his life. But it's just like, whoa, that's pretty deep and pretty dark.

Yeah. Again, I don't think that leads him to being Jack the Ripper, but it's like that definitely could have changed him. And we don't know a ton about his life after that or before that. Really, we don't know a ton, but it's like, what happened after that? It was everything okay. Did a lot of these women were turning to drink because of their depression and because of their tragedies that happened in their life? Did he start turning to that? We don't know. There's, I'm not saying that he did because I do not know. It's just kind of theorizing. But also, again, it's tough to know a lot about him. You can do a lot of digging, find some little like transcripts and records. We know, we do know that he did

not know his real father growing up. His father left when he was young, so he never knew him. His mother remarried twice and one of them was to a police constable named Thomas Cross. That is where we get the cross, but here's the thing. His whole life he went by Charles Allen Leachmeer. He did not use the name Cross. So he did give a false name, which in its weirdly the name of one of his stepfathers who happens to be a cop or happen to be a cop. And maybe that's, and was the sorry, was he still a cop at the time of this? Do you have any idea? I don't think he was, I don't even know if he was still alive at the time, to be honest. But I don't even think he was known among the four that very least maybe and maybe that's why he did it. He was a police

constable for sure. Either way, that's not his name. It was never legally his name. He didn't go by that name. And it was a step father who was a cop. And Jack the Ripper taunted the fuck out of the cops. Right. Was this just another way of taunting? Quick little like, like using your police constable's stepfather's name as like a witness name. As like a, I don't know.

Good thought though. It's a weird, it's weird that he didn't give that name. It's weird. Like it's really, I know there's some, like a few explanations for it. Like, you know, maybe he didn't want to be involved in this and he didn't want his real name in the paper. But you're going to get caught anyway. Well, that's, yeah, the whole thing happening. Yeah, that's, that's like, there's the rub. Yeah. Now, also just as a final little thought to this,

case book, the Ripper case book online is a very interesting side. It's got forums and they have a lot of research. It's totally ongoing. They're always adding to it. Oh, that's cool. You can really get lost in there. I saw it happen. You saw it happen. Now, according to case book, Charles and his wife Elizabeth, he was married for quite a long time. We never got divorced or anything. Okay.

They're buried in different cemetery plots, not together. And his plot was capable and planned to have another person buried next to him. divorced or anything. Okay. They're buried in different cemetery plots, not together. And his plot was capable and planned to have another person buried next to him, assumably his wife. He died in 1920, and she in 1940, neither one of them remarried, like she did not remarry, and she was put far away from him. So sorry, he died in 1920 and then she died in the 24th later. She never remarried, never remarried, but did not get buried next to him. Yeah.

So people are just like, why? And there was never any explanation as to why. But it's like, did somebody know something? But maybe not. That's the thing. I'm not gonna like, I don't know. It's definitely weird. Strange.

That's actually so weird that you say that too, because me and Drew had like a weird conversation last night of like, when we like die, like do we want to be like buried with each other? Or like, because we were like talking about that, so it's weird that that is weird. That is weird. Well, you better be,

because otherwise people are gonna theorize about what the hell's going on. We're gonna get cremated and sprinkle some more cute, adorable. Yeah. I think so. Adorable. Yeah. So, I don't know. Charles Cross slash Leachmeer is decent as a suspect. Yeah, he really is. He is.

I looked him over. I looked him over real quick the first time around. I didn't give him his due. Once I started looking into it, we can't discount him. I'm not saying he's jacked the ripper. I'm not saying he's not, and I don't think anyone can say he's not, obviously none of us can say he's not. None of us can really say he is either, but I'm not fully convinced yet. I'm not convinced by the DNA. I'm that shawl that, you know, that Aaron Cosminsky is the guy, I'm not convinced either way. I would like to, I'm gonna keep my other Charles, I'm gonna do a little more digging. Yeah, I'd like you to, because I need a little more,

like if I'm really gonna be Tobias level, confirming that it's definitely him, like the other reasonable doubt, I have many reasonable doubts, right? Now I'd like to know like what else he knows about this. I'd like to do more. I want to know who definitely does. He felt very confident about it. I would think I'm gonna look further into it. I'm interested.

Yeah, I mean, you did a very deep dive on this. I've watched you do this for the past couple of weeks and you definitely like did some digging. I'm gonna keep going now, but guys, I'll get away from Jack the Ripper for a while now. This was my last little toe dip into it for quite some time. There you go. Definitely for the, till the end of the year,

I'm not touching until next year. Until the year is literally two months away. I know, so I'm not gonna touch it for the end of the year. Why don't you just give us a year off? Next year, who knows, but I'm not gonna touch it for the end of the year. Why don't you just give us a year off? Next year, who knows? But I'm taking a long break. You're crazy. And you know why I'm taking a long break

so that I can thoroughly investigate and come back at you with like, I know who did it. Dear God. And it won't be till like the end of next year. God bless all. So I'm telling you, I'll stay away. The last episode of Morbid, like God's embed,

will be Al Elena figuring out if we check the reverse. We'll be me solving the Jack the River case. Years from now. That's my course. If I'm really writing manifesting here, then the last one will be me solving the Jack the River case alongside Tobias Forge.

Should have done that the other night when it became the Aries full moon, so your intentions, baby. I'm setting them right now. Those are my intentions of manifesting. You have to became the Aries full moon, set your intentions, baby. I'm setting them right now. Those are my intentions, the manifesting. You have to do it under the full moon, my girl. I'll do it under the next one. I got it.

All right, we gotta remember. You can always set your intentions under the full moon. There you go. Or if you're Tobias, you could set them under. The Hunter's Moon. Exactly. Ha-ha. So this was my my May brick slash

Ripper discussion. It was your May Part music. My there you go. And you're like, I won't say it. And I'm done now with a with Ripper for a while. So everybody can breathe a sigh of relief. And I mean, I would we would love to hear we would love to hear though. Like

what do you guys think about Charles? Do you have any thoughts on him? Like send it to morbid podcast at gmail.com. I'd love to hear it. With the subject line, Charles Cross. Yeah, let me know. I just want to know what you guys think.

If you think that the Ripper Diaries genuine, please lay out a very detailed explanation for why you do. Yeah. But I'm willing to hear. I'm an open book here. She's an open diary. I'm an open book here. She's an open diary. I'm an open diary on the Ripper case, so let's go. Let's still like to gather.

I like to think when you were talking about the diary was these words about diary screen. I'm doing it to the wrong tune, but these words are my diary screaming out loud. That's all I can think of. That's what it seems like. I was like, it's like an hourglass. You go, bleglass. You go.

Wow, bleak. All right. Well, we hope that you keep listening. Now we hope you keep it weird. But that's where the Eurilator. No, don't keep it this weird. You can't keep it that weird. Only the scale keeps it that weird.

I'm on a space level. Sorry for the Greeks. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.