Morbid - Episode 436: Harvey Glatman "The Glamour Girl Slayer" Part 2

Episode Date: March 1, 2023

Part two of Harvey Glatman is here and it is wild! When we last left you Harvey had just murdered Ruth Mercado and was ready and absolutely set on the idea of abducting his next victim. He hit up a modeling agency to find his next victim, but little did he know, he got much more than he bargained for. The next woman Harvey abducted and attempted to murder would be the one to end his entire reign of terror.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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We do it in the afternoon. And sometimes we do it at night night. It's like night, but different. And later. Sometimes morning morning. Which is a little later. But earlier. But now it's just in the nice afternoon after we've had a salad.

It's actually 333, which is my good luck time. Oh, look at that. I know. Oh, man. An angel number. I saw 222 and I saw 333 today. Ooh, I keep seeing 444s in my life. Yeah, you love 444.

Yeah. I already told you this, so it won't be new to you. But I saw this TikTok guys and it was saying it was like, you love for, for, for. Yeah. I already told you this, so it won't be new to you. But I saw this TikTok guys, and it was saying, it was like, you're at like a change in your life. And I almost scrolled past, but then I said, I'm wu, let me hear it. I'm wu, I'm wu. Tell me about it.

It said, you're gonna start seeing repeating numbers. I said, check, I see angel numbers all the time. Even like, not even times, but like, addresses, like I'll drive you to the house, and I'm like, oh, shit, 5, 5, 5. Look at that. And then it said, like I'll drive you out to the house and I'm like, oh, shit, 555, look at that. And then it said, you're gonna start waking up in the night between like three and four in the morning.

And then when you go, and it's at that, and I was like, okay, I already do that. Literally every night I wake up at three. And then it said, you're gonna start having these vivid, vivid dreams which in the morning, like once you've gone back to sleep, which has started happening to me. I've told Elena about some of my craziest dreams. This guy knew and he knew and I forget what happens after that.

It wasn't bad. But I'm at like a point of spiritual awakening I guess. Ooh, look at you. And it's funny because a lot of you guys actually have been messaging me seeing if I'm okay. Which way appreciate. Which way appreciate. I'm totally fine.

We have like some family stuff going on which like sucked but I don't want to really talk about it. Yeah, that's why we had to, we missed one listener tail last week, I believe it was. Yeah, yeah. I was out of the office. I had to attend some stuff. Yeah, there was some stuff going on, but everything's okay.

Everything's cool. Everything's good and gravy. But I'm at a spiritual awakening in my life, so that's fun. That is fun. Yeah, but you know, oh my God, you know what we got to do? I think it's two weeks from this week. What?

So in two weeks. I was like, what? We can go to the Obituary Show. We can go to the Obituary Show. Yes, I'm really excited about Obituary. Obituary, our show that's on our network with... It's not our show, it's meant to be on our show, but they're on our Mormon network. show that's on our network with it's not our show It's my passion show, but they're on our more but now we're our bibbess

They are going on a world tour like a straight-up world tour I've shared the and I know you have to is it a world tour is there like a National tour well it's a US tour I was like wait, are they leaving the country? No, not yet. Anyway, I don't I'm not here to Swirling. I'm not gonna to swim. I'm not going to limit there. I'm not going to clip their wing. It's called manifestation. Look it up. They currently right now are on a US tour. Sorry, Europe. But we got to go to the Boston show. We're going to be there in a hotel. We're not there to support our friends. Are you even our friends?

Are you even our friends? Oh my god, that show is gonna be March 1st, and I am so fucking stoked about it. March 3rd, they're gonna be in New York City, March 6th, Washington, D.C., March 8th. I'm reading all of these to you just saying, you know, Philadelphia, the 29th, they're gonna be in San Francisco, California, y'all. Whoa, then they go to Portland, March 31st, and for the rest, I'm not going to read all of them

too, because that's actually a lot. I started saying, and then I was like, maybe I shouldn't do that. We're going to link the rest of the show dates in our show notes, and we'll post them on Instagram. But I think you guys should come see us at the Boston show, hang out with us and see Spencer and Madison put on the glorious to show of, of ever. Be the beautiful goddesses that they are. Be supportive, G.O.F.

Hell yeah. Or else. Because that show is so fucking funny, guys. They're so good. And they're like the most delightful people ever. So it's support them. Yeah, there's some of my favorite. So yeah, we'll put the link to their,

all their upcoming shows and then where you can buy tickets in our show nuts. Indeed. So come join us at the obituary show on these coast. Let's go. Let's fucking go girls. I am ready for that. I can't wait. I'm so excited.

You know what I'm not excited about though? Part two of Harvey Glob. Part two of Harvey Glob. Yeah, I'm actually gonna need you to just like head right into this because you left out a fucking cliffhanger in a half. I sure did. I think when I left you guys, we talked about the third victim

which is Ruth Marcato. He's already killed two other women at this point. He's attacked countless others. I was gonna say it feels like so much more than that because he's just attacking everybody left and right, like a big giant asshole. Yeah, it's pretty terrible. And he's doing it in kind of the same wage time.

He's got a really like pretty consistent MO. He uses rope, he strangles, he brings them out to the LA desert, clean takes the photos. Claims he doesn't wanna do it. It's all ridiculous, He's really annoying. It's so crazy to me that he, and I think I said this last time too, but I'm saying it again.

Say it again. I'm saying it. He says that he doesn't want to do this. Like, oh, I, I, I sat there and I really struggled with myself. But then he does the exact same thing every time. So clearly, you liked this. You didn't do this thinking you were getting

any different kind of result. No, he's a lying sack of shit. It makes him makes me angry. Like, like, don't be a murderer, step one. But step two, fucking own your shit. Yeah. He's definitely a lying sack of shit. And we're going to see at the end of this episode, you're going to get a little glimpsed him that you're like, you're, yeah, like you don't feel anywhere. I don't think he does anything. And what's even worse about this is this took place in like the late 50s and the LAPD for Ruth Mercado's murder Her photo didn't appear in the LAPD bulletin. I said this at the end of last episode. I was just going to recap you

It didn't appear in there until two months after she had gone. And the notes on it were may seek employment at nude modeling or as a stripper and mental condition poor. It's like, who did you ask about that? It's like, I don't know. I think the guy who did this, his mental condition is poor. Yeah, I would say. So I'm going to say even worse than that. And I think this was one of those things

where they looked at it like, oh, she was a stripper. Yeah, and a nude model, so who gives a shit? It's like, okay, first of all, I know that all you detect is how playboy under your bed, so I don't know what your issue is with nude models. And second of all, you're all going to strip clubs, so what's your problem? What's your job?

And it's a job. They are going to a job and they are making money. Exactly. Shut the fuck up. I don't under, I hate how that just like played and I'm sure it's still, and we know, still does play a part. Oh yeah.

It's like who gives a fuck what somebody does as a profession as long as they're not hurting themselves or someone else. Exactly. And it's like who are you to say what is a valid profession and what isn't? Yeah. Like you could say that about anything.

Like we're podcasters. That doesn't sound like a valid profession. Like you know what I mean? Like I've had many people look at me. Like't sound like a valid profession. Like, you know what I mean? Like, had many people look at me. Like, it's not a valid profession, but we do it. It's a job. Like, it's how, it pays our bills.

Like, that's, it's like, that's what a job is. It's like, you go, you work, you work hard, you put your energy into it, and it pays your bills. Right. That's supposed to be what it is, at least. It's like, it's so fucked up. It is. I don't like it.

No, it makes me mad. So, unfortunately, we ended on another murder, but we are going to enter into finally him getting caught. Good. And not because he was caught through like good old-fashioned police work. Never. This is the 50s, isn't it? No, P is caught because this bad, bad bitch Lorraine got away from him. I like that name a lot. Lorraine really went for it. I was going to say, I said, this is the bad bitch. Lorraine got away from me.

Oh, I like that name a lot. Lorraine really went for it. I was gonna say, I said, this is the 50s and I forgot to mention the LAPD is on the case. Exactly. So there's a lot working against this and the 50s lose loose. That is a loose loose situation at this point in time at least.

And so after murdering Judy Dull, Shirley Bridgeford and Ruth Mercado, Harvey was almost immediately ready to kill again. He was not really amping up. Yeah, he did not want to wait, but he did let six months pass by. He wanted to kill right again, but he knew there was some heat on, not necessarily on him, but he didn't want to slip up. Yeah. What he did for us, he does. Now, during everyone else. everyone else exactly now during this time He got another job as a TV repairman I've repairman because remember he did that in Singsing prison like that was what he would make his money on on the side

I forgot but he went to Singsing. Yeah, you sure did he went to Singsing prison and but at this point he was kind of starting to lose it a bit and lose it in the sense that He could not stop thinking of abducting and killing women. Like he was obsessing over it. Like he couldn't keep his mind in his normal everyday, you know, day job. He obsessively was looking at photos of the women that he had killed, that he had kept

in his little toolbox there. He would spend hours just going through the trophies. He had stolen from them like the shoes and the underwear, the pieces of fabrics, things from their purse. Like all he could think about was doing it again. He obsessed over it. I hate this.

This also shows you, he doesn't ever morse. No, like this isn't a guy that's like, oh no, I did that. I shouldn't have done that. No, he loves it. That's why he kept that shit so he can relive it a hundred more years. Reliving, obsessing, just like, no, he no, I did that. I shouldn't have done that. No, he loves it. That's why he kept that shit so he can relive it a hundred more years.

Reliving, obsessing, just like, no, he loves what he's doing. You're not remorseful if you are just wanting to relive the situation. Like if you're remorseful, you never want to think of that situation again. No. Yeah. So in late October of 1958, he was officially back on the hunt.

But he was so eager and so fucking lazy that he didn't even bother to use another fake name. He just went with Frank Johnson again, which was the same one he used last time. And up until this point, he switched every time. He's been switching and it's been working for him. And he did the same photographer trick this time, which you would think he would get out of that because he had one other time with Shirley Bridgeford, he did the lonely hearts thing. Right. Because he knew people were going to be looking at photographers. Yeah.

Now, he's already killed again as a fake photographer named Frank Johnson, and he's going right back to that. So he's losing it. He's getting too eager, this obsession, this pathology is taking him over, and he's making mistakes. Yeah. So he took to the paper to look for his Vindex victim and he ended up finding an ad for a modeling studio

called the Diane Studio. It was a modeling agency on Sunset Boulevard and it specialized in pin-up modeling. Okay. So on October 27th, he showed up to the Diane Studio and said he was Frank Johnson, a professional magazine photographer, and he needed models for a campaign. Diane's studio and said he was Frank Johnson, a professional magazine photographer, and

he needed models for a campaign. It's really gross to me that he does it this way because it's like he's going to a place and he's just essentially purchasing women to murder. Yeah. Like he's paying, like he's like I would like to hire a model. I'm going to pay for that. And then I'm just going to take her out to the desert and a model. I'm gonna pay for that. And then I'm just gonna take her out to the desert and murder her, torture her murder her.

Yeah. It's like that is so fucked up that he's able to do that. I know, I didn't really think of it like that until you look at it as like, yeah, the nuts and bolts of it. Yeah, like strip everything else away. This is him walking into a place saying, hello, I'd like to pay this much money

for to have this girl come so I can take pictures. And nobody knows. And nobody under knows, because that is a legitimate job. And that is a legitimate transaction. Yeah. It's like, unfortunately, it's the perfect way for him to do it.

Truly. It was the perfect way. He was able to get any woman that he wanted. But then at the same time, it's not the perfect way, because you can't keep up with that for too long. That's true. You're going to run out of places. They're going to start recognizing you. Touching you. And if you're using the same time, it's not the perfect way because you can't keep up with that for too long. That's true. You're going to run out of places. They're going to start recognizing you.

And if you're using the same name like this idiot, then they're really going to start catching on. But what is even more wild about this is exactly what we were just saying. He had actually photographed Diane of the Diane studio. A few times before. She owns the studio. I am studio. A few times before. She owns the studio. Damn. And she must have been, you know, I think she was probably in the beginning

when I told you he first moved to LA. Yeah. And he was trying to like, work out how he would do all this and he was taking pictures without practice person. Yeah, I think he was, she was probably in the beginning there. And when he showed up on this day, she recognized him.

Uh oh. But she had previously found him so creepy and did like off-putting. She's like, I'm not sending you one of my girls. Oh no. Unfortunately, she didn't want to go with him. Oh no. But she said she would find a model for him. That is not women supporting women. She did not want to turn away a paying customer, so she threw them another model. That's really fucked.

I promised you there will be another paying customer. If someone gives you the creeps, why would you ever sick them on another woman? On another woman? Yeah, that bummed me out when I read it. I would never do that. Because obviously, I don't think there was like an intent, you know what I mean? No, obviously not. To be like a dick there, but it's like,

but that's a different. Why were you thinking of that? Like if you found this man creepy and off putting enough that you yourself will not pose for him. Right. Why would you put another one of your girls on him? Like I might say, oh yeah, like I'll find you another girl and then just not return at all.

But I just wouldn't. Right. Yeah, I'd feel like sorry, no one wants to work with you. No. Because you're weird. I don't know, maybe, I don't know, maybe 10 years ago my answer would have been different or something like that. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe she was yelling and just maybe. I wasn't thinking. Yeah, I don't know, but it, it, it gave me like a little, I was like, come on. Yeah. That sucks. Yeah. Especially because of what happens.

Hey there, fellow podcast listener. It's Elena and Ash. And we're taking you back to the days before streaming services. Whoa. You know, when you would come home from high school, and it was only a few hours until that TV show, everyone was watching was about to come on. Well, in 1999, that show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In our podcast with Wondery, the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer,

we take it back to 1999. So get out your knee-high boots and paste that poster of Angel on the wall. It's time to enter the Buffyverse. Some of you avid morbid listeners already know what we've gotten store. and paste that poster of Angel on the wall. It's time to enter the Buffyverse. Some of you avid morbid listeners already know what we've gotten store. Hey, your nose.

Join us as we sway our way through Buffy's drama, action and romance. Episode by episodes. Lazy, follow the rewatcher, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon music or Wondery app. Darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, Lorraine had been working as a secretary when she came across the ad for the Diane modeling studio and she decided,

you know what, I'm going to give it a try. Well, I want to make sure. Exactly. Some extra money. She wanted to change up her routine a little bit. She was like, you know what? I'm just going to spice it up. Well, it's like a hobby.

And I'm a beautiful woman. Why not? I'm gorgeous. Let's go, girls. And in fact, Lorraine had only been with the agency for a few days when she got the call from Diane. Wow. And she got the call a little after 9 p.m. that night, saying that there was a job for her.

And she would be, and that Diane was gonna be sending Frank Johnson by her apartment to pick her up within the hour. Okay. This is all very shady. I'm also like, can we not have them picked up at their apartment? I know. Like there should have been a better protocol here. Yeah. Like one place where you're off is.

Yeah, like they have to come to the studio. Yeah, excuse me, sorry, I was a little horseman. A little horse. So she's getting ready and Diane calls her back as she's getting ready. And Diane says, listen, I know I'm sending you out with this guy. I just want to warn you that he is quote, sort of creepy and definitely not a pro photographer. So be careful. What the fuck?

Yeah. If he's not even a pro photographer, then what are we doing here, ma'am? And that's, and so I feel bad for Lorraine here because she's like, already getting ready. She's only been here a few days. She probably doesn't feel like she can refuse

a client at this point. And that's the thing. So she's like, okay. And then she's like, maybe because I'm new, Diane's just being extra cautious and like, over warning me kind of thing. Like, she didn't really think much of it because she was like, I'm new. So maybe she's just being extra cautious. Also from a business standpoint, why would you want to give one of your newest girls a bad experience right off the bat? She's not going to come back and model for you. Exactly. I know.

I thought it was bad business. It didn't, I didn't really understand a lot of this thought process. As Tatiana says, choices. Yeah, choices truly. But you know, she was like whatever. So a little past 10 p.m. Harvey Knox on Lorraine's apartment door.

He says, hello, I am Frank Johnson. I'm a magazine photographer. And immediately she reminded him that Diane insists on getting the money up front. Well, that's good business. Good for Lorraine. She was like, mm-hmm. You should always get your money up front.

Oh, he's got your money up front. Never wait, because people will fucking, they'll fuck it up. Yeah, they'll fuck with people will fuck with you if they are allowed to fuck with you. So don't let people fuck with you. They might even keep your money. Yeah, they'll keep your money. So like, don't let them do that. And this and Harvey tried to pull that shit. So like it's true, because if you don't get it up front, they're going to try to pull some

bullshit and give you less. Yeah. And like not to keep quoting people, but to quote my good girl, really bitch, but I have that money. There you go. Hey me, what you owe me? And Lorraine was like, that's what she said. What you owe me, like you're not coming in this apartment.

You're not getting my services if you're not paying for them. No, I don't work for free, Mama. So she, they had agreed upon $22. Okay. But again, this is in the 50s. I don't like I know. I don't like I know. You can't say.

So they had agreed upon $22. He decided that he was going to give her $10. And then he did convince her that he will give her the rest later. Oh, honey, no. Yeah. He won't. Unfortunately, because people pleasing is a real thing,

and we've all been there, yeah, that you're in a situation where you feel like you can't argue. She didn't argue and she just said, okay, she accepted it and she accepted his promise that he was gonna give the rest before the session. And by the way, it would have been like 275. So there you go.

That's a good amount of money. So he really, he gave less than half of that. Yeah, fuck off. Which, that's fucked up. So Lorraine was immediately put off by this Frank Johnson fucking character. I wouldn't put off by that shit too. Hell yeah, she, and on top of being like,

weird about the money situation, he smelled like cigarettes, she said, and he had BO. Ew. Which like, I, like, I would have been it for me. It's all behavior. Yeah, he's such an insult. Like a goddamn shower.

And she said he was every bit the creep that Diane had mentioned. I am angry at Diane. I'm so glad to have Diane as well. But once they were in the car because they they were gonna be going to the studio, the day on studio. Because that's the other thing I should say, the reason that he would come pick her up at the houses, because a lot of times, especially in LA,

at this time, people didn't have cars. Oh, okay. And it's not like you could call a new bird, and just go to the studio. Why not? So a lot of times these photographers would drive them to the studio. So it's like an extra deal, okay, part of the studio.

So it's kind of part of it. So he was driving them to the studio. So it's like an extra deal. So it's kind of part of it. So he was driving them to the studio and then Harvey all of a sudden, on the way there, said that there's a change of plans. No, there's no. As we know, when Harvey says there's a change of plans, you don't listen to him. But he says that there's a change of plans

and that Diane had some other people coming into the studio so it was taken up so they would have to use his studio in Anaheim. Okay. So Lorraine was like, oh right, like she just kind of was reluctant but she was like, ah, alright whatever. Like who am I to argue with all this? This is probably the way things always go because that's the thing.

It's like when you're in, when you're new to something like that you're probably like, is this just part for the course? You know, like I am in LA. Yeah, because that's just how things go. Like people are going to give you less than what they owe you. Exactly. And they're going to try. They're going to change plans on the way to the studio. And this is probably fine. So she was just like, okay, whatever. But she did say every alarm bell So she was just like, okay, whatever, but she did say every alarm bell was ringing in her head. Yeah. And unfortunately, the benefit of hindsight is always easier. But like trusting your gut is definitely a real thing.

But then also at that point, it's like, what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do at that point? Like so, all your only option at that point is tuck and roll. You gotta think of a plan, basically. Yeah. But that would be very stressful. And at the same time, Harvey is attempting to kind of like ease her anxiety. Like, because he likes to get them comfortable. Yeah, he likes to,

he doesn't want everybody screaming and yelling. Remember, the second a woman turns around and challenges him in any way, he flees. Remember, that's happened a few times. Like, he cannot handle He flees remember that's happened a few times like he cannot handle a Woman turning around and surprising him with any kind of Yeah, that's literally when he dips so but but these women don't know that so he so his whole thing is that he likes to get them Calm he likes to get them to trust him until he has that gun out and then he can really control you But before that he's got to keep you docile He doesn't want you jumping at him. So he's kind of just telling her about this fictional job that he has come up with,

what they're going to be shooting, how, you know, this is going to be great. She's so beautiful. You can even make the cover. You're that beautiful. Like this magazine, they're going to love you. He is hyping her up. He's hyping her up. And he's like, you know what, I think if these photos really make it, then you are definitely cover model material. Oh man. So she's like, oh, that's great. But then as they kept driving south toward the desert, they got on the Santa Ana freeway.

And Lorraine is suddenly not feeling us at ease as she started to be going. Because she said that, quote, he began driving at a tremendous speed. And then she said, he would never answer my questions or even look at me. He just stopped. I've heard that in other cases when they just will not answer you. And they just go into that zone.

Oh my God, that would be so scary. It really is like a fucking animal putting on a hunter mode. It truly is. It's like they just click it off. It's like how wolves, like who is watching a TikTok talk about wolves, like they can like play with you and stuff, but when that animal instinct kicks in, it's like snap, there are different beasts.

It's so true. And she said it was clear to her that something bad was happening right now and she was really in full panic, especially when he pulled off the freeway and onto the shoulder. Oh God. And this is when he told her he had a flat tire.

And she was like, I don't think you have a flat tire. But she was in full flight or flight mode. So she was about to take off running. She was like, I had a plan. I was going to bolt. Like, as soon as he got out of the car, I was getting out of there. But before she could, he pulled out the gun. Oh, my God. And he said, I'm an ex-con, and I'll kill you.

I don't give a darn if I go to the gas chamber. Oh. Which is not something you want to hear. No. And he tried to force her to get her hands behind her back, so he could tie them, but she shocked him. Oh, she did. She did something he was not expecting.

She just grabbed the barrel of the mother fucking gun. Oh my God. It screamed at him while trying to wrench the gun away from him. What a brave girlie. He was shocked. Me as well. Shocked and he just fought back. Grab the barrel of a gun.

Like, yeah, she just, like, I'm not the barrel. Not today, motherfucker. I, today is yeah, she just goes around to the barrel. Not today, motherfucker. Today is not the day and I'm not the one. No. Or Frank, I should say. Oh my God. Yeah, grabbed it, she's yelling, he's yelling, she's trying to wrench it out of his hands, and he's yelling, just do I, what I tell you, and you won't get hurt, which L.O.

Motherfucking hell. Like that's not true. I love that. It made me think of the Buffy episode that we just watched on the re-watcher. Actually, you guys got to listen to that. That is so much fun. We love doing that.

It's just like a really fun show. Yeah. But there was an episode where like Angel is getting his ass kicked by Kendra all over the place and gets like thrown into a cage. And he's like in a cage on his back, and he's like, don't make me hurt you. And it's like my friends.

You are useless at this point. You are in no position to be telling me, don't let me make me, and it's the same thing with Harvey. He's like, don't make me hurt you. Like, fuck off. I just grabbed the barrel of this gun. Don't make me worried about you. And at this point, don't make me hurt you.

Exactly. You little little man, like get out of here. So he grapples with Lorraine and he's trying desperately to subdue her, but she's fighting like hell. Hell yeah. And during this whole fight, the gun goes off. I was waiting for you to say that. The bullet went through Lorraine's skirt and it grazed her thigh.

Ooh. And she said, quote, I'll never forget the hideous sound of the bullet as it wind off into the night. Oh. Which I also thought was like a very beautiful way of saying that is as it wind off into the night. It was like really scary and terrifying,

but like beautiful at the same time. Yeah, it's poetic. She said she's very well spoken that way. Now, even Harvey was shocked by this because remember, he doesn't like trouble. And he doesn't like to shoot the gun. He's using the gun to scare people. He likes to use a rope because he can take the rope off.

He can wipe everything down. He doesn't leave a trace. Guns leave traces of people. So he's like, that can be traced back to me. And apparently he was so shocked. He just goes, I shot you. Oh my god. Like, it was like shocked. And Lorraine was so shocked, he just goes, I shot you. Oh my God. Like it was like shocked.

And Lorraine was like, yeah, but she wasn't gonna sit there and ponder that with him for a little while. So she twisted out of his grasp, because at this point he's grabbed her. Oh my God. She twists out of there, because she's like, you're a little fucking turd of a man.

She twists out of there, jumps up, shot in the thigh by the way, and runs the fuck out of there, jumps up, shot in the thigh by the way, and runs the fuck out of there. Oh my gosh. And she's running, she is tackled from behind like a fucking football player by Harvey coming out of his shocked stupor. Oh, wow.

He tackled her down from behind. Luckily, he had not made it to his killing ground yet, the desert, where he feels comfortable taking his time and torturing women for fucking hours, like a disgusting little maggot that he is. They were on the side of the highway, albeit in a pretty desolate area, about like 200 feet off the actual highway,

but it was a heavily traveled area. I was gonna say, anybody could drive by it any moment. Exactly, and you know who did happen to come by? Like drive by it any moment. Exactly, and he knows that. You know who did happen to come by? The whole piece. Like he said at any moment, highway patrolman Thomas Mulligan. Oh, oh Thomas Mulligan. Thomas Mulligan, what the fuck is up? Yeah, I'm faith in Thomas Mulligan.

He happened to be on his way home after his shift. Oh man, he's like, I thought I was done for the night. And what's crazy is he didn't even see the two of them yet. He just saw Harvey's black dodge on the side of the road. And that's someone who wasn't having car trouble. Well, the dome light was on and both doors were open. Oh shit. So he looks at it and he's like, that's suspicious.

So he was like, I'm gonna listen to my gut. So he just went to investigate it. And he came upon Harvey and Lorraine engaged in like a violent struggle. Oh my God. Like, it had no idea that's what he was coming up on. Harvey is such a scared little bunny when he is confronted with any kind of authority. So he stopped immediately when he saw the cop.

Wow. This allowed Lorraine to jump up off the ground and literally just like sprint at the patrolman and she's screaming he's trying to kill screaming, he's trying to kill me, he's trying to kill me. Later, after Harvey had been arrested, Mulligan described Harvey as having a quote, lunatic stare.

Oh geez. And he said it took, quote, three or four minutes to get a hold of himself. Oh. Because he was just like out of it. Like that's scary. Yeah, and he said a lunatic stare. It's like what we always point to like in the Bundy case

when he like lose, like he's cool, Yeah, and he said a lunatic stare. It's like what we always point to, like in the Bundy case, when he, like, lose, like, he's cool, common collected and corn. And then, and then loses it. Yep, and you can see. Oh, scary. It is literally like a flick of a switch. It is. And what's crazy is later, after talking about it,

Lorraine actually said that she bit his wrist at one point, and he cried out during that struggle. Like a little bitch. And yeah, the way she described it was, I bit his point and he cried out during that struggle. Like a little bitch. And yeah, the way she described it was, I bit his wrist and he cried out. Then suddenly I found I had a gun in my hand. I turned it around and pointed it at him. If I had known how to fire it, I believe I could have killed him.

But he just stood there and watched me and after a while the police came. Wow, I'm glad that she didn't kill him. Yeah. Because I want him to suffer in jail and serve time for everything that he's done to these women. Exactly. Including her.

And I don't want her to have that on her head that she had to kill someone. Yeah, because no matter who it is, like that's a, I can't imagine. I can't imagine. I can't imagine to take. So it's like, I don't want that on her. No.

So Harvey was taken to the local sheriff's station and he tried to explain that he had only been in California for a few months, he had met that girl that night, and then he said he didn't have any plan to hurt her. He was just trying to scare her. Were they like, what's with all the rope and the gun then? And also like, that's still fucked up. Yeah, you guys still not allowed.

Even if this was true, which we know it's not, I was just trying to scare her. It's not a great excuse. Why, though? You were just trying to terrorize your community. That's it, like you're trying to terrorize this woman for no reason. Like, what's wrong with you?

The fuck is that about it? How is that a good excuse? And detectives didn't believe the Harvey story. They were like, yeah, no. Fortunately, they didn't. So he was booked into the Orange County jail that night on charges of attempted rape and assault with a deadly weapon.

Good. Asshole. So I look, I'm only trying to scare her. And it's like, okay, well, I'm only trying to scare you with a fucking prison sentence, you dick. Yeah, bye. How about that? Can I scare you with that?

Right. Can I scare you with the electric chair? Like, that's pretty scary. Fuck you. So this was good. We finally have him. And now that he's in custody and he's being charged, Harvey really tried to minimize all the events. I had a feeling that was going to happen. Yeah. He did, he did, so we minimize everything, but then he kind of essentially admitted that he was planning to sexually

assault Lorraine. Oh, good. But he was definitely not going to tell them that he was planning to sexually assault Lorraine. Oh, good. But he was definitely not gonna tell them that he was planning to murder her when he definitely was. At least not at first, he wouldn't admit that. He later does. Okay. He said that he was just trying to assault her fellows. Like, come on.

Don't worry about it. Everybody like, come on, he's like, just guys being dudes. Just guys being dudes. Locker him, talk. The problem was, Harvey was never as smart or as stealthy as he thought he was or wanted to be. No.

And this whole story was so fucking cobbled together. He had a long criminal history of attacking women that they now were privy to. And detectives were beginning to get the feeling that there was something much bigger happening here and not only just that he was planning to attack this woman in a salt her They were like he was definitely going to hurt her at the very least But we think he was gonna try to kill her right and now they're sitting there going

I think he might have done this before like I think there's gonna be more hair We should look into this thank gosh. They have that feeling. Yeah, and luckily they sent an alert out to all the law enforcement agencies in the area and Yeah. And luckily they sent an alert out to all the law enforcement agencies in the area. And detectives in Los Angeles thought, you know what, we have a few missing women. And we should see if we can tie these to him. That's a good thought, guys. There you go. Maybe I'm glad you're thinking. I like it. And they sent two detectives to Orange County to interview Harvey. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill? Or are they made to kill?

I'm Candice DeLong and on my podcast Killer Psychy Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music. I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler. On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings, Raking Down Lori Valow, a.k.a. Mommy Doom stays motives, and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder?

I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Siky Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today! So detectives from OC and LA interrogated Harvey separately for days. They were hoping to crack him or just get him to slip up at all. And finally, they were successful. Yes.

He agreed to take a polygraph test. And according to reports, quote, the polygraph needle about hit the ceiling when the administrator showed him a photograph of Ruth Mercado. Oh. Now, this was all it took. Like, he saw that needle go, poop, poop, poop, poop, like he watched it.

Like he knew that he was caught. And he goes, you can't beat the machine. I suppose you found my toolbox. You're just playing with me now. But they hadn't found his toolbox. They had not found his toolbox. Why would you just, I'm so happy he did. Like, why would you just offer that up?

This is a case where like IQ does not correlate with common sense. Well, because it's like book smarts versus street smarts. And also where it almost feels like he knew he had to be caught to stop. Yeah. Like it's one of those things. I don't think he wanted to stop, but I think he knows one, he doesn't want to go back to prison. No. He did not like prison. And two, I think he knows like this just isn't gonna end.

Like I might as well just give it up because like just kill me instead. I think he'd rather die than then stay in prison or any of that. And I think he's just so fucking cocky. Yeah. Like I think it also has a lot to do with that. And I think he's just so fucking cocky. Yeah. Like I think it also has a lot to do with that. But like I said, they have not found his toolbox yet, which I'm also like you didn't find it because they searched his apartment. Like you didn't find that.

So they the LAPD detectives went back to the apartment to search again. And in a more thorough search, they found the toolbox. I'm like, you missed that the first time around. So he hadn't said that. They wouldn't have found it. No, and that's, I mean, like those are literally smoking guns right there. And it was hidden in the garage. Guys, that's exactly where you find a toolbox. Like it's not like he even put it like behind his air conditioner, all a dexter or something.

It's like you didn't really have to look that far. Wow. How did you miss that? That's a big old yikes. Yeah. And when they got the toolbox, obviously, they found 22 photos of Judy Dull, Shirley Bridgeford and Ruth Mercado, both alive and dead. That's horrible. And as well as all this stuff, all the trophies that he had taken from them.

Now these photos, we were just talking about it, they're really disturbing. And it's not because they're graphic. No, they're really not graphic, but they are so graphic. They're all at the same time. Well, I saw Elena looking at an article and I was like, are those the real photos? Yeah. And she was like, unfortunately, yeah, there's one, and I'm not sure what, which woman it was, but like, unfortunately, yeah. There's one, and I'm not sure which woman it was, but like she literally is crying. That's a Shirley Bridgeford.

Like, you can, it's moments before she was killed. It's horrific, because these pictures, the Shirley Bridgeford one, she's in the desert. She's on a blanket, just like he said. You know how that night went, we talked about it in part one. She was not a model.

This was the lonely hearts one that he did. She was the model of she was. She was just out on a date. Right. And so like, there was no tying up going to be happening in any sense of the word, like for photos or anything like that. And in the photos, she's tied up on a blanket in the middle of the desert, gagged and she is crying.

I, her, she's horrific to look at. And I don't recommend you look at it. Yeah, no. But please, if you are looking at it, like when I saw it, I was like, that's someone's mom. You also just have someone's daughter. Like how those photos get out there. Like why were they released?

They just released. That's so fucked. Like I don't know why anybody would want to see that. It's a very disturbing one. It really is. And all are very disturbing one. And this Judy doll sitting on a chair, tied up and looking scared,

but I think that was during the session. That's like a ghost, yeah. But even still it's like. It's scary too, because you're like, it's right before. Yeah, like it's right before. That's, those are her final moments. Yeah. I don't know her. I like don't have a connection to her other than this case. I

Shouldn't see that like that's not for my eyes. Yeah, you know, one of those things. It's like I feel like my Opinion on crime scene photos have shifted a lot. Yeah as we've gone through this Podcast I think honestly. No, I agree with so many. think it's like, it's changed the way I view them. And I think I kind of look at these, I was like, yeah, I don't think I'm supposed to see that. I think it's a little inhumane, personally, because I said to Elena, I was like, if I knew that article was out there and that it happened to you, like I had to literally put myself in that situation.

And I was like flicking through an article and I saw like you, yeah, like crying on a blanket about to be brutally stringed. And I couldn't imagine being your family and seeing that. And too, I couldn't imagine being your family and knowing how many people had clicked on that article and saw you like my, like, I'm gonna cry right now. In your final moment.

In your final moment, like that's not, that's not for the public. Yeah, consumption. It really is. Like, a photo, it changed my view a lot. A photo is a lot. It is. And I think it's because, I don't know.

I don't know. These ones changed a lot of my view because they're different. They're different kind of crime scene photo. They are. They're not of a dead body. They're not of a graphic in the in the bloody or gory sense of the word, but these ones are like emotionally graphic. They are and and I'm not used to that You know like that like seeing something like I don't know. It's like a these ones bum me out. I don't think they're all crime scene photos bum me out.

These ones just hit different. You're just like, oh, I don't know. And they're taken by him. And I don't know. Right. Because crime scene photos in general, you're usually taken by police officers or crime scene technicians, obviously.

In like autopsy photos. Yeah. Those feel more clinical and a little more like a fit. I don't know how to say that. Well, no, and I think that's exactly what we're getting at here. Is that like these aren't clinical, these weren't to assess anything at the scene. No, these were for him. These were for him and now we're looking at them.

And they're not setting their looks staring at them. But like, if you read an article about this, it'll pop up. You're probably going to see one. But yeah, I think that's what it is. I think it's that they're, they were taken by him. Yeah. And then they're the final moments of setting. That's upsetting.

These women's lives. Yeah, cause I can just, you look at the angle they're taking, you're like, he's just standing over them. It's just, I don't, it's, I didn't like it. It's upsetting. I just want you guys to know that if you, if you stumble across them, cause you likely will, if you look up this case,

they're kind of everywhere. You Google his name. It's like some of them are in the first three. And they look like they're not real, but they're very real. Yeah. But yeah, it's definitely the photographer that bothers me. I don't like that. We're looking at it through his eyes.

And I don't like that. No. But yeah, that's just the evolution of our new uncrime scene photos. But the discovery of these photos and the trophies that were in the toolbox, that was all the techs have needed to tie the three murders to Harvey. Yeah. Boom.

Here they are. Thank you for that box. The pictures. He knew it at this point. So he was like, yep. So it almost seemed, again, like he was, detective's thought he seemed relieved to be caught. I don't know if this has to do with some kind of, like, you know, psychology here that he was feeling like an urge

that could not be tampered. So he was feeling like I need to be stopped. Okay. I don't know if I agree with that from what I've read about him, but like, who am I? I wasn't there. Well, and there's so much weird psychology that we just don't even know about when it comes to people killing people. Yeah.

Especially serial killers that I think it could be anything. It is, exactly. I think it does. It was definitely clear that he was beginning to lose, lose it, and he was beginning to lose his grasp on normality. Reality.

And being able to play the two sides of his life, which were, I'm a TV repairman. No, I'm this. And it's like, I think he wasn't able to straddle that line anymore. And so I think because he was unable to control his urges anymore, that was becoming an issue. And maybe that's why they saw it as him being relieved. But I don't know. But now that he was safely in custody, he began telling detectives just every detail about the murders. And they said, and this is why I kind of like go back and forth, he was almost boasting about how he'd found the women and lured them to their death. Well, what I was going to say too, actually, and it's perfect that you just said that.

Maybe he was also like, in a weird way, excited that this was all gonna, like, he was finally gonna get his big moment, and finally he was gonna be seen by women across the world, and that we're gonna be afraid of him. You know, maybe that was the relief of like, definitely see that. It was a relief of, I'm not invisible anymore. Yeah, absolutely, because he did mention before

he wanted to do something different. Right. And he wanted to be famous. And here you go. Yep. Now, the evidence in the toolbox, according to him, was kept so that if he was ever caught, he would be convicted. He said, I quote, I didn't have the guts enough to give myself up.

I wanted to, but I just couldn't. This of course was a lie. Look, I don't believe that's a lie. He did not keep, now that was according to him, remember? Yeah. He did not keep that toolbox just to get convicted. That's not what that was. He wanted to try Harvey. That was trophies. That was you because you were reliving them. You wanted to open it. You wanted to touch it. You wanted to think about it, you wanted to be back at that place. Shut the fuck up with this.

I wanted to be convicted. I just didn't have the guts to determine. Shut up. Shut up. Yeah. Just admit that you're a disgusting little worm person and that you like to open this toolbox and touch all the things that you had taken from these women and look at these photographs of them in their last moments.

And go back to that moment. you go back to that moment. And go back to that moment. Just admit it. You disgusting little worm. Yeah, admit it. But he won't. He's going to sit there and pretend that he just wanted to get caught.

And this, it's ridiculous. Now, Harvey was determined not to go back to prison. He definitely didn't. He immediately asked for the death penalty. He was like, I don't want to, I don't want to prison sentence. Okay. It's not really about what you want right now. You don't really get to come, but, but cool.

So after the confession, he agreed to take the detectives out to the desert and to the crude grave sites of Shirley and Ruth. I'm glad the River Judy was found. And were they able to be like put to a final resting place? They were, but when they did, on earth, the remains, the San Diego coroner, Al Gallagher, said that the remains were quote, little more than a bag of bones, which is very sad. Now, on November 5th, 1958, he was taken to the San Diego County Sheriff's Office, and he kept right on confessing, but this time they recorded it. So they have a whole record of it.

He went through the details of each murder, how he did it, and he insisted he had two motives. And this is when he talks about this. He said, quote, my primary motive, I did want to take some pictures. Which is like, that's not a motive, dude. That's not your gross. You can take photos and not murder people. He said, but aside from that, I was interested in having sexual relations.

Relations. Wow. So you were interested in raping. Exactly. Why don't you call it what it is? Sorry. Because you can have sexual relations if you build a relationship with somebody

which like, you should have taken a crack at that, but you never, literally never did. And that's what kills me. It's like, you're an idiot. You should have taken a crack at that, but you never literally never did. And that's what kills me. It's like, you're an idiot because it's like you, you even signed up for a lonely heart's thing. You could have went out with Shirley. You were on a date with her.

If you would like her, she seemed like a nice, nice woman. You could have gone on several dates and you could have gotten to know each other. And then she would have been comfortable maybe becoming more intimate with you later. No, she wanted to do things. He wanted what he wanted and he wanted to take it. Exactly. And it's like, fuck you. Stop calling it sexual relations.

That's not what it is. Say you wanted to rape women because you didn't want to have sex with them. No. Because if you did, you would have formulated a relationship and had consensual sex with people. Yep. But no, you wanted to take it. You wanted to rape. Exactly. You disgusted a little worm.

But he went into such a scary place. He's so disgusting. He went into graphic detail. He included his bullshit thoughts about the, how he thought some of the women enjoyed themselves with him. That's so fucking beyond. So foul. So foul.

Like, wow. He said he didn't use a gun because it, he didn't use a gun to kill them because it would be traced back to his gun. And he said strangling left less physical evidence. I also don't necessarily think that's true. I think he, I think he may be discovered that along the way,

but I think no matter what, the rope would have been involved somehow because it had been involved since he was three years old. Ding, ding, ding. That's literally my next thing. He just, it was a finish. have been involved somehow because it had been involved since he was three years old. Ding, ding, ding. That's literally my next thing. He just, it was a fetish. Yeah.

This was his fetish. Yeah. A dangerous one. And I think this was one that was like beyond. Right. And sure, I'm sure he realized like when he got that gun, you know, oh, I probably shouldn't shoot this because it could be traced back to me. But that wasn't a primary.

Yeah. That wasn't the, exactly. Exactly. Like the primary thing was he enjoyed using a rope. That's how he liked to do it. Yeah. That's like it's and you know what, he had that since like that pre-election since he was very young. Right. Obviously like you said, I don't even think he he might not have even recognized that that was what it was. Yeah. But it that was what it was. Yeah. But that was what it was. Exactly. Exactly.

Exactly. Absolutely was. But the confession went on for hours until he had finally given every single detail of the crimes against the four women, and then he was returned to his cell where he was immediately put on suicide watch because he had made several comments about potentially killing himself. Right. Now, from the moment he was arrested, San Diego and Los Angeles prosecutors

constantly had to worry about him taking his own life because he was constantly talking about it. And they were also worried about him making a pretty convincing bid for the insanity defense. Yeah. They were worried about that. And they didn't want him to possibly win his freedom back at some point. Oh, no, no, no, no. So, Ophelia, actually prior to his arrangement, Ophelia, his mom, visited him in jail and on her way out of the jail, she said to the press, talked to any of the people in the jail, he is not vicious, he's sick. Ophelia. Don't say anything.

Ophelia. And that say so much less. It's that's what you're going to say. Don't say anything. Oh, feel ya. That's so much less. If that's what you're going to say, he's not vicious. Don't say anything. Oh, feel ya. Because that is so disrespectful to anyone who was related to one of those women who were viciously attacked.

Viciously raped and viciously murdered. He spent on his own admission five to 10 minutes strangling them until there was no signs of life. That in and of itself, that little, like there's not a little part of what he did, but that small piece of whole operation is vicious. So vicious. And he's a rapist.

Exactly. He's a rapist, Ophelia. The entire operation, abducting women is vicious. Like, come on. Like, I understand. It's a rapist, Ophelia. The entire operation, abducting women is vicious. Like, come on. Like, I understand it's your son. He's on his mother, and I understand you wanting to say he is sick. And you need some sense he is sick. And if you want to just sit around and say that to yourself to get by and make a day's

go on, by all means. But don't put that into the public where it's going to be like eating up. And don't you be disappointed on public where it's going to be like eating up. And don't you'd point it on, say he is not vicious to the president. Like don't say it. That is just because he is. That is minimizing. Yeah.

Like that's really fucked up. Such an insane level. And don't say talk to any of the people in the jail. I've said this once. I'll say it again, Ophelia. There's no women in that jail. Right. He's in a jail with men. Of course he's not fucking up in there.

Why don't we talk to Lorraine and find out if he's vicious? Because she fucking lived that through it. You want to ask her about it? You want to look at the probably scar on her leg from when he shot her in the fucking leg and he's not vicious? It's like, come on, man. Like, curly girl. I know, I...

It's one of those things. It's like, I know you're his mother. Yeah, and I know that he's sick. And I know this is a loss, you know, it's one of those things, it's like I know you're his mother. And I know that he is sick. And I know this is a tragedy for you as well. This is your child who has done this. And I understand again saying he's sick. And I'm, you know, you do you, whatever. But it's not vicious.

That's like, whoa dude, like don't do that So on November 8th 1958 a grand jury convened in the San Diego Court County Courthouse And he was indicted for the March 9th murder of Shirley Ann Bridgeford and July 24th murder of Ruth Mercado. Okay. A few weeks later on November 21st, he appeared before Judge John,

I think it's Hugh Wicker in Department 4 of Superior Court. He played guilty and the sentencing was deferred until a later date. But we all knew that he was asking for the death penalty. Now, again, this was a death penalty case. That's what they were. That was what was on the table.

So there was going to be a lot of red tape galore. But in the meantime, Ophelia just kept talking about Harvey just being girl shy and not understanding how to be around with him. I don't think he's girl shy. I think he's raped several women at this point. I don't really know if I would call that shy. Yeah. And she was just ignoring the assaults and robberies he had committed over the years,

just minimizing the straight up murder that he had committed. That's fucked. And Dr. JP Hilton, that first psychiatrist that evaluated Harvey when he was a child, he actually wrote to the probation officer and he said that, yeah, he did have trouble with women and said that he had become increasingly aggressive towards females as he grew older. So, you know, Phileas trying to minimize on this doctor is like, ah, yeah, sure, he does have trouble with women, but that's making him aggressive towards them.

Yeah. So, they tried very hard to prove that he was simply mentally ill and not confident to stand trial, but it wasn't working. Okay, good. He was very clearly anti-social and very delusional. Yeah. That is for sure. But he was clear when he was questioned, you know,

that before committing the murders, he said that he was feeling some kind of way about it. Right. That alone is you saying, I know what I was doing was wrong. Yeah. But I went ahead and did it in any way. That's you saying, I have a clear idea of what's right and wrong, but I decided to do it anyway. And now I feel bad. Exactly. Like, he sold himself down the river, even when he was lying. So on December 15th, 1958, he appeared in the superior court for the sentencing and he definitely he told his lawyers do not stop me from getting the death penalty. But legally, they had an obligation amount some kind of defense. They couldn't just be like, sure.

So to make it harder to do that, the prosecutor William Lowe, he learned all about his criminal past, you know, how dangerous he was to society when he was in New York, how he was like the phantom and like all that. And they presented a great case with all the confessions, witnesses. They included testimony from Lorraine vigil. In the end, he was found guilty of two counts of first degree murder. And again, he wanted to be executed at the earliest possible date. But neither Harvey nor his attorney had anything to say when the verdict was given.

They were like, I'm not speaking because I don't want to be executed. What are you going to say at that point anyway? Like, he was- I'm sorry, but it's too late anyways. But he's not even going to say that. Judge Hugh Wicker actually had a lot to say though. I love when the judge has a lot to say. Yeah, he had been sitting here, he had listened to the entire thing, he heard the detailed

descriptions of how he had murdered these women, and after everything had gone down, he said this. I know there are a lot of people, people in high places that don't believe in capital punishment. Now, if life imprisonment in California meant life imprisonment, that would be one thing. Life imprisonment in this state means confinement for seven years or more. And when I say more, it depends on the past record of the defendant.

If a law could be passed in place in the Constitution, so that each legislature couldn't come along and modify it, if they made life imprisonment, life imprisonment without the possibility of pardon or parole, that would be one thing. But we don't have that. We will never have it. And there are some crimes that are so revolting that in my opinion, there is only one penalty that can be imposed. And that penalty is the death penalty. Yeah. Which I understand what he's saying about the life imprisonment thing. I do too. Because we've said this a million times about the...

We're gray. Yeah, that we're gray on the... I'm leaning more towards against it, but I do get that. That it's like, yeah, it would be nice if life imprisonment was a thing for these assholes. Right, but a lot of times that's not. Yeah, even when you get sentenced to life, it's not even life. Exactly. And so after this was said, the clerk said, Harvey, Marie Glamon, you are, have here too

forb and charged in an indictment by the grand jury of this county, to which you have here to for, enter to plea of guilty as to both counts. And it is ordered that the death sentence be imposed. Harvey was sent to San Quentin Prison in January 1959. He sat on death row, but we know that's never the end because any death penalty case triggers an automatic appeal to be heard from the Superior Court. His was found was heard by the Supreme Court of California on June 5th 1959. So he did appeal? It's like an automatic appeal. Oh, I just curious an automatic appeal. They reviewed the evidence. They found that there was no error. And anything, they upheld everything. At 10 a.m. on September 18th, 1959,

he was led from his cell to the gas chamber at San Quentin. He was seated, strapped into a chair. At 10 o'clock 3 a.m., the cyanide tab was dropped, releasing gas into the room. He, apparently according to witnesses, started inhaling very deeply. He wanted it to be with it. People think that that was probably the room. He, apparently according to witnesses, started inhaling very deeply. You wanted it to be like that. People think that that was probably the reason for, and what happens in these scenarios is you just kind of watch the pulse go poop, poop, poop, poop,

poop. And it plummeted. He was pronounced dead at 1012 AM. So from 1003 to 1012, that's how long it took. That's not very long. I don't know how long those things normally take, but I was like, whoa. So that was the end of Harvey Glatman. Bye! But if you remember, throughout the second half of the, if you remember, like if you remember,

throughout the second half of the 20th century, if you remember that, I think I do. Yeah. California became a place of lots of serial killers. I pray in the bright bright. Many serial killers. And a lot of times, as we got later and later, they got those crazy, you know, monocles in the press when we couldn't identify them. And it kind of was like an epidemic, like it seemed like for a while. But in 1958, when all this was going on, like it seemed like for a while. But in 1958, when all this was going on,

nobody really could even conceive of a Harvey Glamon. You know, like this was a monster that we had not yet studied and not yet understood. Yeah. Not that we were going to understand, but obviously he eventually got a nickname like the Glamour Girl Slaire because everybody always attributes a nickname to it.

But when it was going on, he on, it wasn't a huge story. It was a big story, but it wasn't what it would be now. It wasn't sensationalized. Or what it would be in the 70s or the 80s, like any of those. But in April of 1954, after he had been released, then this was before he had started this killing spree. Yeah. It was after he had been released from sing-sing.

Okay. And before he'd moved from California, that little span of time. Yeah, yeah. There was a body discovered. Oh, shit. In that span of time, where he was out of prison, not in California. And this body was discovered in Boulder Hills, which is just a short drive from Denver. If you remember, he was living in Colorado.

So this was a nude body of a young woman. This woman was a Jane Doe for more than 50 years. Oh my God. Until 2008, when investigators in Colorado said that they were tentatively identifying her as Catherine E. Ferrand Dyer, which was a young woman who lived in a Denver boarding house, not far from where Harvey was staying with his parents.

Oh shit. Now the investigation I've been reported a short time earlier after various exchanges of information on a public message board that linked this Jane Doe to Harvey Glatman. People were starting to talk about it. The reason was the timeline fit, the methods fit, and a lot of the facts of the case were fitting. Facts like Jane Doe had been hit by a car just shortly before her death, and the measurements of the vehicle were the exact match of Harvey's car at the time.

Wow. And even more to add to that when you're like hit by a car like you do. Yeah, because I'm like, what what during his interrogation in Orange County Detectives asked Harvey about his time in Colorado Mm-hmm And he explained that he had photographed some women in Colorado while in Denver and when detectives Detectives were basically like are they dead or are they alive? Did you leave them alive? He was like no, they were mostly he's like I think're all alive. And then he smirked and said,

unless they've been run over. Oh, yep. Oh, and unless they've been run over, and this girl was hit by a car. Why would you, like, why would he say that? And he smirked. Wow. And to this, the newly conducted autopsy found that the young woman had been

bound at the wrist and ankles in exactly the same way that he would bound by in his other victims. Right. And it fits his MO. But obviously Harvey had been long dead by this time. By the time she's identified. And it kind of seemed like they were never going to connect the necessary dots. But a year after Colorado detectives first said that they identified this body, this is wild, the real Catherine Dyer was found alive in in Queensland, Australia. So they had falsely identified this. Now, apparently at this point, care workers were preparing to move this woman. They knew as Barbara into an assisted living facility.

When they did that, they came across a ton of items that belonged to someone named Catherine Dyer. They dug a little deeper and they learned that Barbara was in fact Catherine Dyer. She had disappeared from Colorado more than a half century earlier and They were like what the fuck is going on, but she wouldn't talk about it Like she didn't want to say why she had disappeared. She didn't want to say any of that So there was a press briefing on this story and Boulder detective Steve Ainsworth said Catherine Dyer was quote Quite a mysterious person even before she disappeared. There's not a lot known about her life I think for some reason she didn't want to be found.

Okay. Now that's interesting. So you're like, well, okay, what's happening? It didn't of itself. Now, Ainsworth, that detective, he remained committed to identifying this bolder false, Jane Doe. And in the fall of 2009, through DNA technology, he was able to identify the remains as Dorothy Gay Howard, who was a 16-year-old runaway from Phoenix, Arizona.

16. Yep. It was actually in 2004 that historian Sylvia Petem took to the, like she took some interest in this case, the Jane Doe, and she asked if they could exume the Jane Doe's body. And she was able to get hurt like they were able to do it, like a official permission to do it. And then they were able to reconstruct what she looked like. And when they did that, they published this reconstruction

in an article with Sylvia's stuff about it. And it was seen by Dorothy's grand niece, Michelle. That's how she was found to be that, because she was like, that's Dorothy. Like she had known the story about her. And she got in touch with authorities, gave her DNA, they connected them, and we're able to identify this Jane Doe that way.

And so was she definitely murdered by Harvey, they think? Now, Ainsworth, so that's the problem. So Ainsworth believes Dorothy had run away. That's why she was in Colorado. She ran away from her husband and Phoenix, like a bad situation. And it come to Denver to visit an aunt and a week later, she disappeared without a trace. Now they said around this time, scores of women and girls had vanished around this time in Boulder Canyon.

The majority of which are unsolved. Wow. Officials truly believe she is a victim of Harvey Glattman, but they have not been able to confirm it. Unless they got run over. He didn't say like he was... Unless they got run over. Unless they got run over.

He was trying to multiple people, so maybe he changed his... I would be willing to bet that some of these women are some of his first kills. Wow. I would be willing to bet that some of these women are some of his first kills. Wow. I would be willing to bet that I really would. That's the thing because even like the first one in California, he did seem to know what he was doing

and he did seem to have confidence in... That's the thing. And like, Tay, and he like went right to her apartment even. Yeah, Judy and Dull, it seemed like he was pretty confident. Like he said, like, I think you're right. I think he had done this before in some other capacity. Yeah. And he found what worked.

Wow. Because the fact that he drove her out to the desert, this guy drove like a hundred miles away. Right. To the desert, he had the blanket in his back, then his trunk, he had the rope, he had it all set up, he did the same thing for each one, he had done that and figured it out before.

Why did he did leave Colorado pretty abruptly? That's what I was thinking, why did you leave? Right, he really had no reason to go out to California. He left because he figured he could do it out there now. Wow. And because he's already been arrested in Colorado. Because he's already been arrested in Colorado. And he had already photographed women in Colorado. So he had already started that whole stick.

So I gotta start somewhere now. And it's like now he knows if he goes to LA, he can get even more women even easier through that whole stick. Holy shit. So he had perfected his way. I guarantee you, I'm like, let's DNA test these. I don't even tell you this out.

I need to nail this fucker with more people, because I want to know. Damn, I know he's done more. Such a wild story. Yeah, I know this story, and I knew most of it, but I did not know about that last piece that there's an available. Is it an item that could potentially

pene that art his? It just fits too perfect. The fact that she was hit by a car and it matched the measurements of his car. The fact that she was bound in exactly the same way, she was very pretty. And then he said that. And then the fact that he said,

he had photographed women in Colorado and he had left them alive unless they got hit by a car. Like why would you say that? Are you fucking, like why would you pull that out of your ass? Like why did he say that? He said that because he pull that out of your ass? Like, why did he say that? Holy shit. He said that because he knows you're not gonna catch him.

Mm-hmm. Fucking Harvey Glamon. Damn. Disgusting little warm boy. Bye, bitch. Bye, Harvey. Wow, I feel like I need something like spooky after that. I know.

Oh, I was crazy. I need some spooky. Well, we'll do a listener tale. Yeah, we'll get a listener tale between there. Perfect. But then you're getting more carnage. So yeah, I stay tuned. I got a rough one. Yeah. So stay tuned. I look a sad one. It's a very different murder case. My next. My next case. That's unfortunate. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so we hope that you keep listening. You'll hear all of that. And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you say so we hope that you keep listening and you'll hear all of that and we hope you keep it weird

But not so weird that you say that you hope that someone didn't get hit by a car If you know full well that you hit them with your car and also don't kill people bye. Don't Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.