Morbid - Episode 438: The Tragic Murder of Roseann Quinn

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

Roseann Quinn was a young, single school teacher working at St. Joseph’s School for the Deaf and pursuing a graduate degree that would help her advance her career. She was independent and had a bright future. Then on January 2, 1973, she was brutally murdered in her New York apartment by a man she met at a neighborhood bar. Her death would become a talking point for those against the Woman’s Liberation Movement—citing her "high risk" lifestyle as the catalyst for her own demise. Of course we know that the only one to blame here is the vicious killer himself, and Roseann Quinn was merely a symbol for his rage.Associated Press. 1973. "Murdered teacher was dedicated to her work with deaf children." Reporter Dispatch, January 5: 2.Churcher, Sharon. 1999. "Could Sex and the City lead to murder?" Mail on Sunday, February 14.Ebert, Roger. 1977. Looking for Mr. Goodbar. January 1. Accessed February 8, 2023. https://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/looking-for-mr-goodbar-1977.Fosburgh, Lacey. 1977. Closing Time: The True Story of the "Looking for Mr. Goodbar" Murder. New York, NY: Dellacorte Press.—. 1973. "A man seen with teacher on slaying night is sought." New York Times, January 6: 16.—. 1973. "Suspect seized in Indiana in teacher's slaying here." New York Times, January 10: 1.Gelb, Arthur. 2003. City Room. New York, NY: Putnam.Kaufman, Michael. 1973. "Teacher, 28, slain in her apartment on West 72d Street." New York Times, January 5: 1.Knight, Michael. 1973. "Suspect in killing of a teacher on West Side hangs himself." New York Times, May 6.McFadden, Robert. 1973. "Police issue a sketch of witness they hope will identify killer of teacher." New York Times, January 7: 39.New York Times. 1973. "Insanity defense planned in killing of teacher here." New York Times, February 2: 14.Weisman, Steven R. 1973. "Corrections board assails city aides on Tombs suicide." New York Times, July 22: 33.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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car, I feel like my girlies are there with me. New members can try Audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash morbid or text morbid to 500-500. That's audible.com slash morbid or text morbid to 500-500 to try Audible free for 30 days. Audible.com slash morbid. Reboot your credit card with Apple card. The credit card created by Apple. It gives you unlimited daily cashback that you can now choose to grow in a high-yield savings account at 4.15% annual percentage yield. That's more than 10 times higher

than the national average savings rate. Apply for your Apple card now in the wallet app on iPhone and start growing your daily cash with savings today. Apple card subject to credit approval. Savings is available to Apple card owners, subject to eligibility requirements. Savings is available to Apple Card owners, subject to eligibility requirements. Savings accounts provided by Goldman Sachs Bank USA. Member FDIC, National Average Savings Rate is from FDIC website, Terms Apply. Hey weirdos, I'm Alena. I'm Ash. And this is morbid on the Monday. Monday morning morbid. Monday afternoon because I was about to tell them about the fucking feast that we have laid before us. We do. We just decided to go like full blown like yummy picky junk food to set off the week. We were like, you know what? Let's just go for it.

Let's do it right. Let's fucking veg. Let's go without the veg. I mean, there's some jalapenos on the nachos, so it works out. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, there's some little peppers. Little peppers.

Little red pepper, green pepper. Did I pick them off? Yeah. Did I eat them? No. I ate them, though. But that's okay. So at least one of us did. Look at you, just getting your greens in. That's right. I'm all about getting the veggies. Oh, yeah.

After I eat an entire Snickers bar. You know, you're not you and you're hungry. That's very true, actually. That is true. I'm so hungry. You get hungry. Yeah. We. We. As a unit. We.ry. We hangry. We hangry. As a unit. We hangry. We do. We hangry together. But not today. No, not today. Today we are fed. I hope you are fed.

Me too. I hope that you're enjoying the week so far. Exactly. It's Monday. So like, let's hope it's going okay. It'll be Monday. When you listen to this, I think. You know what?

This is going to be a great day for you. make it a great day or not the choice is yours at a man at that guy. Yeah, so Have a good week though. Just manifest it We weren't being good at that the last couple weeks. So we're being good at it now No, we're being a little bit negative Nancy-ish, but I did cleanse the studio today with some Palo Santo. Don't worry. we got it from an ethical place. It's all good. Yeah. And we cleanse the shit out of this bitch. Exactly. And I think you should too. The cleans your space. You know, because I feel like everybody's a little bit of toxic yuckiness happened around everybody.

But no, anymore. But not here. Not here. No, no. Tomorrow I get to wear my hair like Pamela Anderson. So what could be negative about that? And I get to dress as someone. I think you can say it. I know it's gonna be over, right? Yeah, because this isn't coming out today. It'll come out next week, yeah. Yeah. So actually like two weeks from now, the rest of the world will hear it. Yeah, you would definitely say that's how far ahead we are motherfuckers. But yeah, so I dress I dressed up in the future and in the past as Drusilla from Buffy the Vampire Slayer and I lived my best life I am sure of it. Tell you. And Mikey made a Linus dress.

Yes. And made the necklace that went with it and it's literally like spot on these necklace. The exact say I can't wait for you guys to see it slash I know you guys loved it when you saw it yeah and Mikey's gonna be there at the show John's brother and law Dave is gonna be there at the show yeah we're all gonna be there Yeah, Dave's related to us somehow. Well, inside joke insiders. Cause just putting it out there, white is a very good last name.

Just so you know, just putting it out there. I think our Ryan and Matt coming to the show. I think they are from the Blackvail. Yeah, from the Blackvail. Maybe Joe will be there. I think Joe's gonna be there. Who else is coming? There's a lot of, there's a couple of coming.

John's coming. John's coming. Drew's coming. Yeah. It's it's this is a virtual show but like we're we're packing the pack in the place. Yeah we need like a full of good vibes. Full of family and friends. It's gonna be fun. Slash it was fun. It was so much fun. It's fun to live in the future in the past all at once. Yeah it's not fun to live in the future and the past all at once. Yeah, it's not fun to live in the future if you have anxiety. That's called future tripping. That's true and I am not for that.

No. But in a good way, this is gonna be fun. And you know what, if you were like, wow, that's a cool costume, you should go watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer and you should listen to the rewatcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer because it is just good, clean, not clean. It's not clean at all.

It's good. It's good for that. It's good for that. It's dirty fun. It's good filthy fun over there. I felt like Tomator. Tomator, we've been watching cars a lot. My eyes might've left Tomator. Like Tomator.

Without the tooth. Well, you know what? Let's get into it. You're like, it's just top. You're really, you're virin' off. Yeah, we are. I don't know, it's a manic Monday. It is.

But today we're gonna head all the way over to New York City, The big apple, baby. The big apple. And I feel like we can all agree that like, it's a city where it could be pretty hard for one single person to make their mark. Yeah, absolutely. Let alone a mark that lasts for decades after you're gone. Well shit. But that's exactly what happened to Rose and Quinn. Ooh, we're gonna talk about today. She left her mark on the city on the night of January 2nd in 1973. It was also the night that she was brutally, brutally murdered in her Manhattan apartment. Oh, God. This is a really sad case.

And I think the biggest bummer about researching and kind of putting this case together for me was the fact that because Roseanne was like a single woman who like went out at night and met a man and brought him back home, it was like oh well she asked for this. Yeah. Because that's what happened. I hate that. It was the 70s so you know yeah the 70s. But it's like don't blame the murderer. Definitely don't do that. Yeah never do that. I blame her. So frustrating. And at the time of her death, Roseanne was young. She was a single school teacher and she was working at St. Joseph School for the Deaf.

So she was like an incredible person. And she was also pursuing at the same time a graduate degree that was going to help advance her in her career. Good for her. And the evening she would go out to like the neighborhood bars by herself, meet up with some friends. She'd bangle with the single men at the bar. She was just having a good time From time to time she would take one of them home

Sometimes for like a one night stand, which is what single people do? I was gonna say which is well within her rights as a human being. Yeah, something plenty of people have experienced in this day and age Yeah, I definitely back then too. Yeah, but no What's a one night stand? Oh my god. Yeah, and definitely back then too. Yeah, but no. No. What's a one night stand? Oh my god, yeah. That's what I was saying. Oh god. And that's the thing.

And in earlier decade, Roseanne's death probably would have gone on noticed by the public. But because this was the early 1970s, an American culture was kind of going through, not even kind of, we really were going through a huge period of transformation. It was like Roseanne's lifestyle and murder was a political talking point for liberals, conservatives, and everything in the middle. Everybody just wanted to talk about it.

And to some people, she was a modern woman who was unashamed of her interest in sex and just fully capable of taking care of herself without a man. But then to others, she represented this reckless, foolishness of the women's liberation movement. Because that was huge at the time. Poo. So those people saw her as a woman who was so caught up in her own empowerment that she failed

to see the apparent danger in her deviant lifestyle. I hate when I get so fucking caught up in my own empowerment. I love when I get caught up in my deviant lifestyle. Such hate when I get so fucking caught up in my own empowerment. I love when I get caught up in my deviant lifestyle. Such a flaw, Vars. I'd like to live a deviant lifestyle. Like just have people like she was a deviant. She was a deviant. No one would ever say that about me though. No, I'm too. You're too sweet. You got that sweet face. I couldn't come up with that. I don't do I have a sweet face. Oh, 100% everyone listening right now agrees.

They all went, yes you do Ash. I need to work on my R.V.F. a little bit. You don't need to. Mikey's working on his R.V.F. in the corner. That was good. That was really good. No, you have a sweet face too. You do.

It's very true. Him smiling. All right, well guys, the murder of Roseanne Quinn, it was actually, it would go on to inspire two novels and actually a major Hollywood film that you've probably heard of. But that film kind of easily slipped into the space between fact and fiction. It's not really full blown true, but some just there's no there's some artistic license.

Yes, exactly. All of the projects focusing on Roseanne definitely obscured the real life woman at the heart of the story though But people still tell this story because it's representative of a centuries-old story that all too often ends in murder The murder of yet another innocent person at the hands of a man who wanted to punish her for her perceived sins. We hate it So Rosanne was born on November 17th, 1944 in the Bronx. In the Bronx, kid. And her parents were John and Roseanne Quinn.

We have another Laura L. I love Laura L. I moment. Now the twins were strict Irish Catholics and they passed their beliefs onto their children and their children carried on a lot of the traditions into their adulthood. John the father, he was an executive with Bell Laboratories and he ended up moving to Mind Hill Township in 1955 to be closer to his company's headquarters, which were in New Jersey.

But so Roseanne's childhood was interrupted in 1957 though because she actually contracted polio. Whoa. Mm-hmm. She had to have surgery and then obviously recover from that surgery. So that meant she had to spend almost a year of her life on bed rest. Holy shit. Polio is no joke. I've heard.

I've heard. Yeah. Her only time outside was when she was going back and forth to doctor's appointments and hospitals. So like, it was like a year of her life. Yeah. And the disease left her with a large scar and a slight but noticeable limp that she was really self-conscious of for the rest of her life.

In reality, the effects of the surgery and the scarring weren't very severe, but Rosanne was never able to shake the feeling that her father couldn't stand the disfigurement that she'd gone through. And she thought that was why he shunned her all throughout her childhood. Oh, that makes me so sad. It's really, really sad.

It's like reading that may mean, may my heart hurt. Yeah. So after graduating from Morris Catholic High School in 1962, Rosanne enrolled in the New York State Teachers College and there she majored in elementary education. She wanted to be a teacher from the jump. She was really excited about it. And college offered her a path to an independent future

and also the chance to get out of her parents' house. They were again very strict Catholics and she loved her parents very much, but their strict Catholic home could really feel oppressive. Yeah, like suffocating. Yeah. the church doctor indicated everything between what was and was an acceptable behavior, especially when it came to sex.

Oh, boy. And that was like not Rosandran want to be told when she couldn't couldn't do. Not a recipe to make somebody listen. So like a lot of us, she went off to college, she found a group of like-minded people,

and they had been drawn to a flourishing counterculture and feminism movements that were happening across the country. It was the 70s peace, love, freedom, love, not war. It was great, and she found her people. Yeah. She was an average student at Newark State, but the school actually allowed her to explore her interests, and it helped her develop a passion for teaching that would shape her personal and her professional life.

So after graduating in 1966, she moved into a small apartment in a relatively safe section of Manhattan's east side. She had two roommates who were also young ladies, and she found work as a teacher in the New Work New Jersey public school system. So she was really just like off to live in her own life. And dependent. She's got a path. Find in her path. But she got her first taste of kind of the real scary fucking world one night when she stayed late after school. She was just staying late to

clean up her classroom, literally. And she was assaulted in her classroom. Oh my God. By a student. He threatened her with a knife and actually tried to rape her. Wow. She was able to escape before he could hurt her. But the attack by somebody so young a student and in a place where she felt safe left her very anxious and very paranoid

for a period of time. So she actually ended up leaving that school and she found a new job teaching in the Bronx. She was like, I don't need to sit in this classroom every day and be reminded of what could potentially happen to me and what almost did happen to me. I'm good. No, because I can never feel comfortable again.

No, I couldn't either. So at the new school, the students and staff absolutely loved her and she loved them right back. It was a great fit for her. She actually would bring in breakfast for the student she taught, quote, because she had so, excuse me, because she said so many had to ride buses to get to school and had to start out too early to eat breakfast. So she would just bring up for a random breakfast. Like what a fucking awesome person. Now the religious values instilled in her by her parents were among the reasons actually, in factors that drove her to be a teacher.

But at the same time, the religion seemed to have a large effect on her relationship with men. She didn't seem to love her, believe that women were meant to be subservient to men. And then in the late 70s, that was forward thinking that limited the dating pool for her. That's so wild. Isn't that crazy? That is really wild. Like she was like, I don't think I like Sid Benesee. I think we're equals. Yeah. Yeah.

Like, oh, get a load of this crazy girl. Yeah, they were like swipe, what is it? Swipe left. Is that the bad one? Yes. I did actually. I was like, I don't know. It's only heard swipe right.

It's been a while. Yeah, I think you swipe right when you like someone. Cool. So I said it right. Yeah. I wasn't like a big Tinder girl. No. No. Now I was a bumble girl, but the same, same motion. Kind of deal. Anyways, those days a long one. Thank goodness. But back to the 70s. It limited her dated pool and what also complicated matters for her and her personal opinion were the scar and the limp that she had from when

she had polio. It made herself conscious and she felt like she was unattractive because of it. She was not. She was beautiful. So as a result though her relationships with men were really hindered by shame and they tended not to last very long or go too deep. Yeah, I'm really sad. So instead she liked to spend nights at home, she liked to read, she would go out with her friends. She really loved the neighborhood bars, WM tweeds, or the copper hatch. And then again, like I said, she'd bring somebody home

for back to her apartment for a little fun every now and again. So by late 1972, things actually seemed to be going really well for her. She'd found that new job that she loved. She was teaching at St. Joseph School for the Deaf now. She moved into a new apartment, and this new apartment was teaching at St. Joseph School for the Deaf now. She moved into a new apartment and this new apartment was in a newly converted high-rise. It was in an even safer

neighborhood on the upper west side. And she had also just started classes at Hunter College where she was going after her graduate degree in Deaf education. Damn, I think she was a good bitch. She had a lot to look forward to when the school went on vacation in the last week of December. But unfortunately, as 1972 flipped over to 1973, and Christmas break was winding down, Roseanne Quinn would not live to see more than a couple days after the new year. Oh, man. On the evening of January 2nd, 1973, she stopped at Tweeds, which was a neighborhood bar. It was right across the street from her apartment. So close. And I was, she stopped at tweeds, which was a neighborhood bar. It was right across

the street from her apartment. So close. And she just wanted to have a drink. I just wanted to wind down after a day. She's on vacation, whatever. Yeah. So she's sitting alone at one of the tables and tweeds. She was like in one of the darker corners, having a little Johnny Walker, hell yeah. Which I was like, hell yeah. Get a girl. And I guess the bartender noticed that she looked a little lonely, looked a little depressed. So we went over to talk to her. To talk to her, excuse me. And by that time she was kind of a regular at tweed. So the bartender knew her, made his way over

and they just chatted for a little bit. She seemed to be like a little cheered up by the conversation and she actually ended up getting up from the table when she realized that a group of her friends were in the bar now. So she headed over them to chat with them. And it was there that in a acquaintance of hers introduced her to a man who she only met as John.

Oh, so John was in town. He was from out of state and he was visiting a friend. And Rosanne actually noticed him across the bar earlier that evening. He was young, he was tall and thin, and she didn't think he was too bad looking. We love a John. Yeah, we do usually.

When she'd seen him earlier. When she saw him earlier, he was with another man, but now he was actually alone. And it seemed like he'd had a couple of drinks that night. Okay. But then again, so had she. So she was like, you know, let me make conversation. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Getting to know yourself can be a lifelong process, especially because we're always growing and changing and we're always facing new challenges, or even just like new steps in our life. For example, I'm getting married this year and something I've learned about myself is that I am a little more stressed out something I've learned about myself is that I am a little more stressed out

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That's nativedeo.com slash morbid pod or use promo code morbid pod at checkout for 20% off your first order. They chatted for a while, he bought the next rounded drinks as they kept chatting. And to those around them, they both looked like any other couple in the bar. They were sharing a drink, having a conversation, just shooting the shit. Yeah. So as the night went on, the group actually got bored at tweeds, and somebody suggested that they move across the street to another bar called the Copper Hatch.

So Rosanne kind of looked at John like, hey, you want to go? And they decided to go. The conversation continued at Hatch. So, did the drinks, everybody was getting a little shwaisty. It's okay. And in the days that followed, the bartender at the Hatch, Tom Keating, would tell the police that he had seen the man with Rosanne that night, but he had never seen him before,

and he couldn't quite recall what he looked like once the police came a knock-in. Which he feels't quite recall what he looked like, what's the police came in not getting. Which he feels so bad, because I'm like, how often do you remember exactly what someone's looks like when you have no reason to know what they look like? And you know, like you're not like so many people throughout the night.

I feel so, because he must have been like shit. Oh yeah, I know. I used to work as a bar back and if anybody ever came to me for information about the people at the bar, I would have been fucked. Yeah, you'd be like, I don't know. Like there's so many of them. Yeah, and at some point, like, they blurt together.

They blurt together, yeah. Yeah, it's like that guy with the blue hat was wearing a plaid shirt. I don't know what that was, but no other guy. I was the other guy who's bald. Like, it's just what it is. Yeah, honestly. But he did remember Rosanne, the bartender,

because he knew her. Yeah. He said, he only remembered that she seemed happy while she was talking to this guy. Okay. So as the hours were on that night, customers kind of slowly started making their way out of the bar. People were calling it a night. And they kind of Rosanne and John noticed the trend.

So they actually decided to go back to her apartment just to continue their conversation and then get to know each other a little bit more. Yeah, they seemed to like each other. Yeah. But by the next morning, Roseanne Quinn would be dead. And six months later, her killer would actually take his own life while in police custody. Oh, wow. I didn't know that. So what truly happened after they left the copper hatch is anyone's guess, really? As far as anybody can tell, they were seen together casually talking as they went into Roseanne's building at 253 West and 72nd Street. John would later claim that they reached her apartment and after some light conversation,

they engaged in consensual sex. But then in another version of this story that he told to his court appointed lawyer, he claimed that he was unable to get an erection and the sex actually never occurred. Okay. So in one story they did and it was consensual and another he couldn't make it happen and it didn't happen. Yeah. So early reports indicated that Roseanne had been raped by her assailant. However, the coroner's report indicated that she had had sex within 24 hours of her death quote, but that there were none of the external and internal signs of force or brutality that would indicate she had objected

to sexual intercourse. Oh, that's so tough. That's the thing. That's tough. It's really hard to say whether or not she was helped. Yeah. Because there's obviously hallmarks of it in an examination. Right. Because when you, unfortunately, in like, you know, trigger warning, because we're just going to get into it for a second. If you are fighting someone off and you do not want it to happen, it is going to hurt you in some way. They're going to have to force it.

That's the whole point. And there are going to be consequences biologically and physically from that. But then again, we've seen cases before where there wasn't super clear physical evidence of it, but it actually happened. Exactly. So it's like, I think there's a lot of factors. There's a lot of variables at stake that we don't know. Because it's like, did she pass out?

Right. She could have done it. And she wouldn't be fighting back. And it wouldn't be as, you know, evident. Exactly. Exactly. And she very well could have. I mean, one, they had a lot to drink that night too.

He did get violent with her at some point. She out, that's a really good point. She could have passed out. And he could have done what he wanted to do with her. Absolutely. So according to John, in his story where they did engage in sexual, in consensual sex, excuse me, once they were done, Roseanne, quote, and this isn't saying,

like this didn't happen, but he said she quote, went nuts and started pushing me physically to hurry and get dressed and leave. Which also, even if you did have sex with her and then she said, okay, like I'm all done, like you need to leave now. That's her house. You're in her fucking apartment.

Get out. Yeah, just leave. It doesn't matter if she went nuts. And if she did go nuts, you would think that you'd be like, okay, like I got to get out there. Well, that's the thing. You'd just leave and be like, wow, okay, I won't, that was wild.

I will not hang out with her again. Like that is that. Right, you know? Exactly. So it's like, okay, that doesn't excuse anything. Yeah, his account of the events leading up to her murder are very questionable. That sounds it.

In one version, she went nuts for no reason, but then in another version of the events, which he gave, he said that she mocked his inability to get an erection, and that's when everything started. No matter what, man, if she made fun of your dick, it's not a reason to kill her. No, so definitely not. I don't care to be honest I don't care if you couldn't handle that leave exactly and don't talk to her again. Right

Like that's what adults do exactly So whatever happened in the moments before Rosanne was attacked something switched and John and he Just went into a full blown rage. I can't imagine what she saw before her. Oh, God. When Roseanne tried to stand up, and this was according to him, he grabbed her by the throat and began choking and hitting her,

claiming that he actually even used her own pants that he grabbed from the floor to continue choking her until she lost consciousness. Ah, there you have it. There you have it. I didn't want to say it too early. Once she passed out, John said he went to the kitchen and he grabbed a paring knife, until she lost consciousness. There you have it. There you have it. And I didn't want to say it too early. So once she passed out, John said he went to the kitchen

and he grabbed a paring knife and he proceeded to stab her 18 times. She's 18 times. This is a stranger, by the way. God, or potentially somebody that he's just had sex with. It's insane. At least one of the stab wounds hit her jugular vein, which then released a torrent of blood that not only covered John's chest arms and pants, but also splashed a shit ton of

blood on the walls, the floors, the windowsill everywhere. So when he was fairly certain that she was dead, he grabbed a lard, this is very graphic, by the way, you might want to skip forward. He grabbed a lard, this is very graphic, by the way, you might want to get forward. He grabbed a candle and he quote stuffed it into her vagina until it broke off in his hand. Oh my god. So it's like, if that's the case, how could they say that she wasn't raped? Like that is rape. That's rape. Yep, right? And you're... Yep, right. And you're... So wait, you're telling me that post-mortem examination showed no physical effects of being forced? Well, that's the thing.

Because it's like something was rammed in there. Early reports indicated that she had been raped, but then they switched up their story and said, and this is, quote, none of the external or internal signs are force of brutality that would indicate she had objected to sexual intercourse. Oh, you mean... You want internal signs are force of brutality that would indicate she had objected to sexual intercourse. What about the candle inside of her? Are you kidding me? And it's like a candle is going to cause damage.

And he said it was on large red candle. Yeah, any foreign object is going to cause damage. That's the fucking lie. Like, what the hell is that about? I be questioning the hell out of that autopsy. I'd be like, you tell me what you're looking for and what you didn't find. I think that autopsy speaks to the time

and speaks to potential judgment on her for inviting a stranger into her home. You know, that's wild. Isn't that crazy? And there was a foreign object inserted. Like, that doesn't seem like she was probably post mortem. And there was no signs of any brutality. Oh, and it wasn't even probably post mortem.

It was post mortem. Like, he waited. He said until he was sure she was dead. And then he did that. That guy needs to be locked away and the key thrown away. And unfortunately, like we know, he ended it himself, which really, really so frustrating. Yeah.

So it was nearly 3.30 in the morning by that point. And he knew that he had to leave before the building started coming alive in the early morning hours. So before leaving, he started traipsing around the apartment, rifling through drawers and cabinets, stealing what, what little money she had in the apartment. To make it look like. I don't even know if it was to make it look like she had been robbed.

I think he literally just wanted to rob her. Damn. Maybe like the cover up was the second part of the motive, but I think the first part was that he needed money. He's just a dick. Because he's kind of like a transient, like, like goes around here and there every year. Once he grabbed everything of value, he then went around the apartment a second time, carefully wiping his fingerprints off anything he thought he had touched.

Wow. Anything he remembered touching, and probably a few more things that he was just like, you know what, let me wipe that down just in case. So it's like you definitely can't claim that, like I snapped and I black, like that kind of thing. No girl You clean that up. You thought about it. Yeah, exactly So once he wiped everything away. He went into the bathroom and showered Wow. Yep. Rinsing away copious amounts of blood from his body Redressed himself and then slipped out in the apartment down the street

There was a very real possibility that he wasn't going to be caught. When you find out why he was caught, it really depends on one person. And thank God that person decided to be a good person. Oh, damn. Because he could have gotten away with this and probably never would have seen him again.

100% never would have seen him again. Or if we did see him again, he would have killed at least one other person. Oh, yeah. You don't end here. No. And I wonder You don't end here. No. And I wonder if it's starting here.

If it's you begin in here. Yeah, like this is pretty insane. So staff and administrators, of course, found it weird when Roseanne failed to show up for work on January 2nd. It was the first day back to school after Christmas break. She had been there for like over two years at that point. She'd always been on time or called if she needed a sick day. So the fact that she didn't show up on the first day back was definitely of some

concern. So they made phone calls to her apartment. No one was answering. When she failed to show up the following day, a coworker was actually sent to her apartment, explained the situation to the superintendent of the apartment. Oh no. And then they, the superintendent let that coworker in. Oh. The apartment was a fucking wreck. There had been chairs knocked over. Drollers were pulled and just thrown around the whole entire place. Objects were strewn about the room.

And Rosanne's absolutely brutalized nude body, by the way. She was completely nude. Was discovered on the pull-out couch. She was barely recognizable through all the blood, the bruises, the stab wounds, everything. That's horrific. And then, like I said, the walls, the couch, the floor, the windows, everything was covered in blood splatter. And this is so fucking weird. So for him to say he snapped, I don't think it's true at all. Now, her killer left quote,

a hollow sculpture bust of a woman on Roseanne's face. Like he was obscuring her humanity. Yeah. Like don't come at me and say you snapped. You took the time to go find a bust of a woman and put it over her face like, how fucking bizarre. Oh, God. Isn't that so weird?

It's so weird. And this is so sad. Rosanne had a cat named Missy. And like, so everybody walked in and she started weaving through their legs when they came in. Oh, for like comfort. For comfort or to be fed, like, you know, whatever.

Just so sad. That makes me sad. So the police were called, obviously. They arrived a short time later and they sent officers floor to floor, canvassing for any kind of lead. But nobody in the building had seen or heard anything suspicious that night. At a quick glance, Roseanne's death kind of seemed motivated, at least in part, by rape and secondarily by robbery. Yeah. But the fact that it was so brutal led the investigators to think something more had happened here. Yeah.

Again, I feel like I've said this a lot with all my cases. It wasn't a typical robbery. Yeah. But still, the apartment had clearly been tossed around. Rosanne's wallet was found on the floor empty. So they were like, oh, no, no. Yeah. Like, is this ary, is it not?

So the discovery prompted actually surprisingly large investigation for a single murder in Manhattan. Officers went through the building in search of leads and then a second team of 10 officers found out to Sherman Square, which was a large plaza between Broadway and 72nd Street. It was commonly referred to as Needle Park, which is like really shitty. There was a large number of people who were using drugs while in

the park, so it got its nickname like that. But despite Rosanne having moved to the neighborhood for its safety, it really wasn't as safe as she thought it was. The area had experienced a relative increase in violent crime, which included the murder of a teacher two years earlier and that had occurred just around the corner for Mozan's apartment. And then there was a drug-related murder that occurred in the building in her same building six months earlier. Oh, so yeah, that's a little close. It wasn't that safe. So although the canvas of both the building and the nearby park turned up no leads

Investigators learned that in 1969 the building where Rosanne had lived had actually been redeveloped from a hotel into an apartment building And this remodel included a major overhaul to the building's entrance. Oh now there were a ton of security protocols in place that provided On-site dormant and prevented a majority of unwelcome or unapproved visitors. So this fact provided the important insight that whoever had murdered Roseanne had likely been let into the building by Roseanne herself. So the investigators scoured the building, scoured the surrounding area, and while that was going on, a third team of investigators started kind of digging into Roseanne's personal life. They were interviewing

friends, co-workers. They figured they could find her killer, quote, somewhere amid the numerous, yet fragmented activities of an attractive single woman living in the interracial world of the West Side. Well, it's like seven years was wild. It was a very wild time. They're like, she was a crazy cat. She was a crazy lady. It's like she was just a teacher that lived in New York and like one girl to the bar sometimes. Yeah.

They make it seem like she was just like running ramp in the streets. So the detectives were so sure that she had welcomed her killer into her life that they very much limited their investigation to only her personal life. Yeah. Which completely disregarded any possibility that her killer was from work or from a world unknown to her entirely.

Yeah. Because it's like, yeah, I understand you look at it and you look at the evidence and you say, okay, it seems like she let her attacker in because the security has gone up. But it's like you can't limit your scope to that. You just focus your scope on that. Exactly. You have to still do in the side there, looking at all possibilities. It's like, it happens so many times in different cases

where they go in with a narrative in mind and they just limit the scope. Well, and that's exactly what happened here. Cause like you were just saying, it's normal. Like we have to dig into the person's personal life to figure out what happened. And when the evidence is pointing that way, of course, you're going to shift focus there. Right. Standard practice for sure. Yeah.

But in this case, there was a very judgmental tone to the narrative. And it was taking shape of the entire investigation. Captain John McMahon told the press, quote, the West Side world she belonged to was not the quiet, peaceful one that some families find here. It was a friendly, relaxed world of young artists, teachers, professionals, swingers, all of them, all of them. Every single one. Did you find a pineapple on the front door? Yeah. Every single one of them. I can't. Just swinging. Like, you don't know these people. What a generalize, like,

what a blanket to throw over it in time. All artists, teachers, and young professionals are swingers. All of them. I don't think so. Yeah, all right. I don't think so, but just because I'm good at painting means I switch partners. What?

Yeah, that's a mean. I'm young, so I switch partners. John get a grip. John get a grip. Get a fucking grip. I don't like any of the johns in the story. I was just going to say I take it back. I like one john.

You give john a bar. I'm there. There you go. I'm going to go. If back. I like one job. You give John a bar. There you go. I'm gonna go. If I do social news. So anyways, in the early 1970s, like I said earlier, the US was on the verge of major, major social change. The war in Vietnam was losing support among the American public. It was kind of shining a spotlight on the stark divide

between the young people in the country and the older people in the country, conservatives, liberals, everything in the middle, like I said in the beginning. And at the same time, groups that had been pretty quiet and underground were actually gaining social capital and political power through the collective action, like the black power, the feminist movements. So to conservative and older Americans

who were like pretty bewildered and frustrated with the rapidly shifting social change, Roseanne Quinn represented the irresponsibility of the supposedly sexual, sexually liberated modern woman. Yeah, they're like, we don't want this shit. We want things to say the same. They're like, look, what will happen to you if you're sexually liberated. Let's go back to the 50s. You'll be at home and you need to be subservient to your man And then you won't get murdered because no one got murdered in the fifties never no This is new not by their husbands either absolutely not never happened never ever never cover to case like that My life can get a little hectic sometimes, at this point I'm hosting like 42 different podcasts.

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five pairs of glasses at home, for free at WarbyParker.com slash morbid. So McMahon, he had to open his mouth again and he said, that's the captain. He said, quote, this city is dangerous. If you live on the west side like she did and you're friendly, affable, mix with all kinds of people and have a lot of night life, well, lots open to you. Oh. If you're friendly and mix with all kinds of people, that's a long-winded way of saying, your fault.

Yeah. His comments explained why detectives were focused exclusively on her personal life, and how a large, diverse social circle can present some kind of complicated challenge when you're trying to identify a suspect. I'm like, don't be friends. But also, if you read between the lines a little more, he was just trying to warn women that being sexually liberated was going to have tragic consequences. Oh, yeah. You don't even need to read between the lines a little more, he was just trying to warn women that being sexually liberated was going to have tragic consequences. Oh, yeah, you don't even need to read between the lines.

No, you're really just like, he's like, here it is. I just said it in a long way. He's just flipping the brain to any young woman who like doesn't have a man and doesn't have one. He's just like I said it. Yeah, and artists too. Artists and teachers. Oh, yeah, you don't want that.

Young people. No way. Like, I can't imagine. I always say I wanted to live during the 70s, but this case made me realize I do not make sure think about it. I mean, being a woman now is pretty tough, but we won't get into that. So even though there seemed to be a shaming tone and a judgmental spin on the narrative surrounding Roseanne's murder, the deep dive into her personal life actually did prove to be valuable, because it produced the first viable lead. Investigators had discovered a report that Roseanne filed a year before she had been killed.

And this report explained that a man she had taken home on evening had actually slapped her in the face after they got into an argument and she was able to get him out of her apartment luckily and went right down to the police to report this. According to the investigator, she had only filed the report, quote, to frighten him off. But the assault resulted in a conviction and the man ended up spending several months in prison. Oh, which led the detectives to wonder if he had held some kind of grudge against Rosanne and killed her in retaliation.

Yeah, because consequences for your actions should definitely be held against the person that you did it to. Yeah, always. For sure. I mean, I can understand why they thought that. Oh, I 100% understand that, but that's, it's just so infuriating that it's like, you did something terrible. Yeah.

You literally physically assaulted someone and you've got a consequence for it. So now you're like them. Well, now I have to seek revenge on that person that I hurt. Right. Because it's not your fault for hurting them. Yeah. No, definitely not. We're don't kill us. So while detectives were chasing down that kind of, it was pretty flimsy to be honest. Yeah. Flimsy revenge killing motive. A few of the people who

had been at tweeds and golden hatched, they started coming forward with descriptions of the man that they had last seen with Roseanne. Most of the people who had been there that night could only describe the sky in vague detail. They couldn't even provide enough information to get a composite sketch. Oh wow. But there was another man who'd been seen with Roseanne's companion earlier that night.

Oh yeah. Remember I said she had seen him with a guy earlier, but then when they started talking that guy wasn't really around in there. Yeah. But the detectives hoped that they would be able to come up with a composite sketch for this guy so that they could track this guy down and start talking to him.

And they actually were able to. According to the police, the witness they hoped could identify Rosanne's killer was a white man, 28 to 32 years old, six feet tall, weighing 165 pounds, with a fair complexion and short cropped light brown hair with a wet look. Ew. He was doing the Kim Kay wet look. Oh, I know. That sounds so foul. In other words, wash your fucking hair.

Yeah, I was gonna say grease ball. In other words, lay off the gel. In other other words, gross. Ew. So the NYPD blue, I had to say it, blue. Set up a tip line urging anybody with information to call and leave an anonymous message. They circulated the composite drawing of the potential witness to the media and they insisted to everybody.

They were like, this guy is not a suspect. He is going to lead us to our suspect. So please know that. There you go. So nearly a week had passed since the discovery of Roseanne's body, but all the police had to work with were some vague descriptions of generic white men in their early thirties. That helps. It doesn't. I don't narrow it down. The forensic, that'll know lots of lots of generic white men in their early thirties. Really narrowing the focus. Yeah. So the forensic team search of the apartment really didn't turn

of anything significant. And the man who had assaulted her almost a year earlier that I was talking about, he had a quote-unquote lock tight alibi for the night of her murder. It basically ruled him out as a suspect. Oh, bomber. So under the circumstances, the sketch was their best and really their only chance at catching Roseanne's killer. And they were about to get a very lucky break. Oh damn, yes. On the morning of January 7th, Gary Geist, no excuse me, Gary Geist actually.

Walk down to the newspaper box. Not like Willie Geist. No, no, different. No way. Very different man. Very different. This is Gary Geist. Hi, Willie Geist.

Hi, Willie. I think he listens, right? I don't know. Or no, did he like your book? No, it wasn't him. It was some. It was something else. It was somebody else. Anyways, I was like, wait, who was that? We're not talking about Willie. We're talking about Gary. I was just saying hi to Willie. You can always say hi to Gary. Thank you to appreciate that. To Gary. To Willie. There's not even a Gary. There's no where we are.

Anymore. Where do we go from here, back to the store? I was just going to say back to the case. Oh, good job. Good job. So Gary. So Gary. He walked down to the newspaper box. Yeah, he did.

Which like that was a thing. On the corner, and he bought the morning edition of the New York Times. Oh. I know somebody who's on the New York Times bestselling opera list. Oh. I'm sitting right in front of her. It was me. It was me. It's crazy.

I'm gonna tattoo it on my arm. You should. I'm not going to, but I would. If I did that, if I did that shit. If I did that shit. If I was out there on the New York Times. Okay, so this New York Times written in large print, eight columns across, the headline read, police issue a sketch of witness they hope will identify killer of teacher.

And it included a composite drawing of a potential witness that police hoped would lead the back to the teacher's killer. OK, so to Gary, the sketch looked incredibly generic and probably fit the description of thousands of men and men hat in the loan. I'd say so. But regardless of whether anybody could identify the sketch, he knew the drawing was of him.

Gary. Gary. What? It's him. A few nights earlier on January 7th, you see, Gary had gone out drinking on the Upper West Side with his friend, John. John Wayne Wilson.

Wait, is his name Gary or Garyary? It's Gary. Like, Geary, okay, like GE, and RY, okay, yeah. I wasn't saying that we were just saying it with a word. No, that's really Gary. All right, Geary. But Geary, when you're saying it, it's, it's, but he went drinking with his friend, John, oh shit, John Wayne Wilson. And around 10 30 or 11, he said, you know what? He personally, Gary decided he had had enough to drink. And he suggested to John that they had back to his apartment where John was staying while he was in town.

Oh, so he was even trying to get John out of there. But John Wilson, however, had just started talking with a young red-haired woman at the bar and he didn't want to leave. So he was like, no, Gary, go on without me. And the next day, John literally told Gary that he had gone home with the woman. They smoked some weed. They started to have sex.

But then she began be raiding and mocking him when he was unable to get an erection. The cruelty he said caused something in him to snap. And before he knew it, he was on top of her with his hands around her neck choking the life out of her. So he made a full-blown confession. Geary, Geary. What the fuck? So from the moment he heard the story, Geary wasn't sure what to make of it. He had known John Wayne Wilson for years, and he felt like John wasn't the type of person who was capable of flying into a rage and murdering somebody, but at the same time, he could never dismiss the story and its entirety.

It's like, okay, Geary. So John is the kind of guy. He's not the kind of fella that's gonna straight up murder someone. Is he the kind of fella who normally comes home and says like, oh, what a crazy night. I killed someone. I just literally raped and murdered someone.

Does he say that often? And then he's like just kidding. A joke. Funny jokes. I just literally raped and murdered someone. Does he say that often? And then he's like just kidding. A joke. Funny jokes. I'm just a silly goofy guy. Where's Ashton Kutcher? Bring him out. Like I hate when people do that.

They're like, I just couldn't reconcile it. And it's like, but did they often tell you that they murder people? Is that what happened before? Your chair. Ripper, when the guy was sitting in his passenger seat and came back with the sock full of rocks, it's like, what did you think, sir?

Like I know it's hard to reconcile that a human being you know could take another person's life. Totally. But if they're telling you who they are, believe them. Yeah. I believe that in every sense of the word. When people show you or tell you who they are, believe those motherfuckers. Is there a show in you for a bad reason? Okay, Gary.

He told you what he did. You should have gone to the police and let them sort it out. Mm-hmm. Totally. But so he was like, I don't think gone to the police and let them sort it out. Totally. But so he was like, I don't think he's the kind of guy that could do that. But then he started seeing the reports about the teachers, the teacher who had been murdered. And he said that he had become quote, frightened all along about how this whole thing would turn out.

So he said at first, he tried to ignore the article and the composite drawing. But as the day went on and on, he just couldn't shake the urgency of the request for information and the seriousness of the situation, which like, I'm glad he finally came to the conclusion to do the right thing. I don't think he should have struggled with it that hard, but I've never gone through it, so I don't know. Because again, it's like he's either the kind of person

who would do that, or he's the kind of person who will pretend that he did that either way, you should go tell someone about it. Yeah, definitely. Cause that's a dangerous person. Well, and I think what really started to shift his decision making was that he was wondering if he didn't go forward to the police,

could he be held as an incisor? Like, incisor- Like, incisor- He did it to murder. Yeah. So that afternoon he ended up calling his lawyer and he asked his lawyer to come over to his apartment They sat in the living room and Gary explained the entire situation and his lawyer explained that he could indeed be

Indicted for obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, being an accessory after the fact being an accomplice to the crime itself Like he was he was facing a lot of shit here. You got a big storm coming honey You got a big storm coming here Honey, you got a big storm coming. Here, that's what the lawyer said. And he said, as far as I see it, you have three options. You can go on the run. You could do nothing, or you could go to the police and tell them what you know.

Yeah. And he said, as your lawyer, I suggest the latter. Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and tell you to do that last one. Yes. So his lawyer placed it, Gary agreed. He was like, I think that's what I need to do. Yeah. And he, the lawyer called the District Attorney's Office and explained the situation, careful not to mention any names. Hmm. His client had information about the killer, he said,

and he would only share that information in exchange for immunity from prosecution. So he played a bit of a game here. That's a smart lawyer. But honestly, I would play the same fucking game. Absolutely. Hopefully I never found myself in the situation. Oh, yeah, no. I don't think I would, because I don't bit of a game here. That's a smart lawyer. But honestly, I would play the same fucking game. Absolutely. Hopefully I never find myself in this situation.

Oh, yeah, no. I don't think I would, because I don't really have that many friends. So there you go. It's perfect. Especially not ones that pretend to kill people or actually kill people. I've never had a friend that pretended to kill someone. No, I've never killed anyone. I've never had a confession confess to me that was like just kidding.

I just like to do that sometimes. Like, no. And if I did that person wouldn't remain in my life much longer it would be clip Clap has to read the method clip. Oh to read the rim Peace and love to do it. Peace and love to do it. So a few days later He sat down with the detectives Gary and Gary. It's hard to say and he told them everything He knew about the murder. He said he's what he knew. And the level of detail included his description from the early part of the evening at tweets

to the extent of Roseanne's wounds. And that convinced the investigators, he was telling the truth. He knew literally everything. Oh, he. Now in the days since the murder, John Wayne Wilson had returned home to Indiana. Huh, so Manhattan detectives had to get a warrant for his arrest, and they booked the first flight

they could to Springfield. Hell yeah, where did they write that motherfucker? Extra date that man. They would be actually joined there a short time later by nine other NYPD officers. Oh damn. And in the meantime, Captain McMahon, Ashat McGee, called the authorities in Springfield and brought them up to speed on what was happening. So back at home with two detectives, Gary actually received a call from Wilson and was able to confirm for the investigators that Wilson would be at his

brother's house in Indiana and he knew what that was. So it's a setup. It's a walkoff. It's a walkoff. Now in the year that followed, Gary would actually struggle with a lot of guilt and a lot of shame. He felt like he had betrayed his friend, which I don't think he betrayed his friend in any stretch of the imagination, but I can understand why it might feel that way. They had been best friends for a long time, and now he did the right thing, but he feels like he made a mistake.

Sure. He didn't, but I can understand why you'd feel that way. I can understand that it sucks to be in that situation. Yeah, but like you shouldn't feel guilty. Literally brutally murdered a woman. Exactly, but his guilt got so bad that he was having nightmares. He went to a psychiatrist on multiple occasions. And on New Year's Eve at 1973,

he actually flew to San Francisco. He got a large amount of sleeping pills and he took them in a park that night fully intent on ending his own life. Oh wow. It wasn't successful. He lived. But it marked a full-blown transformation in him. He decided to move forward in life, confident that he had done the right thing from that day forward. Good. It's not amazing. I mean, I hate that it took that. Me too. Like, geez, I hate that it came to that. But like, I'm glad he could finally accept that like, he did nothing wrong.

Like, you did like the right thing. Like, you should have told, you should have told earlier to be quite honest. Like, but I'm, well, and I think maybe that could have been part of it. I'm sure that makes you along with it. But it's like, you did the right thing. You told.

You did it. And I'm happy that he was able to kind of get like, a second chance. Yeah, I'm glad that he was able to move forward I'm to like I did the right thing with a clear conscience. So what fucking this piece of shit John have your have guilt? Hell no like no, he's not worth it. Uh-oh. So on January 9th detective John Lafferty and Patrick Tumey arrived in in Danapolis and they arrived at the home of John Wayne Wilson's brother a little after nine in the morning And they were able to arrest John without incident. Good. The investigator spent almost all day talking with him,

and they learned about the 23 year olds history. He was only 23. 23. Yep. He had inconsistent employment, he lived everywhere, and he had a notable criminal history. In May of 1969, he was arrested in Florida for disorderly conduct. He was convicted and served 10 days in jail. On June 1st, 1969, so pretty much right when he was arrested. Right when he got out, he was arrested and charged for larceny in Kansas City and he served two years in jail. Well, and then in the spring of 1971, he was actually rested three separate times in the Miami and Fort Lauderdale areas for petty theft of alcohol, small amounts of cash

that he had stolen from stores and houses. And he was sentenced to a longer prison sentence, but he actually escaped from jail on July 6, which was six months before he murdered Roseanne Quinn. Oh wow. So he was on the run when he murdered her. Wow. Like, should have been in jail.

That's even worse. How fucked is that? What if you were trafficked into a cult over shot nine times, or fell in love with a vampire, or went into a minor surgery and woke up one week later, paralyzed? What would you do? I'm Whit Missildine, the creator of this is actually happening, a podcast from Wondry that brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. From a young man that dunes his entire future with one choice, to a woman who survived a notorious serial killer,

you'll hear their first-person account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Each episode is an exploration of the human spirit and personal discovery. These haunting accounts sound like Hollywood movies, but I assure you this is actually happening. Followed this is actually happening wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. So Laffady and Tumi, those detectives, they returned to New York with John Wilson the following day a little after 330, and he was taken to the 20th precinct where he was formally booked for the first degree murder of Roseanne Quinn. Once he was booked in photograph, he was taken before a judge in criminal court. He was indicted and he was ordered held without bail pending a psychiatric evaluation.

So his arrest generated a ton of curiosity among the press and the public. For one thing, it was significant for somebody so young that his criminal history consisted mostly of petty theft and nonviolent crime to suddenly escalate like this. Exactly. Like that's wild. Family and friends described him as an easy going and didn't care kind of guy, but they said he was never violent.

Like this was insane to them. Wow. But that being said, his father told reporters that on two occasions, he and his wife, like so his parents, had actually become concerned enough about his mental health that they took him to the Madison State Hospital

for an evaluation. Two times. But both times, he said, quote, nothing was found wrong with the boy. Oh, boy. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. So emotional difficulties and poor interpersonal skills

continued for Wilson into his late teens in early 20s. In 1969, he actually got married to a woman named Kathy, and he had two children with her before divorcing. Oh, this man's a father. Yelp, in 1971. Oh, but he abandoned his children. Of course he did. He left them, and he married again in March of 1972, this time to a 17-year-old named candy, who he was still married to at the time of his arrest.

Oh, yeah. So the absence of a history of violence or aggression in his past actually only served to deepen the mystery and baffle the press and public as to what the fuck could have happened to transform him, this seemingly mild-mannered man into a rage-fueled killer. Like, they were like, what the fuck? Like, that can just happen. Now, investigators, and this is nuts.

They actually developed kind of a fondness for him. Like, it reminded me of the case that you just covered the clutter family murders. Yeah. They like felt for him. One detective later said, I guess we all felt a bit protective of him. I told him he could put his coat up over his head

and hide from the photographer. Guys, we got to stop doing that. Like, we got to stop doing that. He murdered a woman. And that, I think it speaks so much to the time that they were in. It was like, yeah, I know you murdered that girl, but it really sucks that you're going on trial for it. Why don't you hide your face? But we'll plaster her face in every newspaper and talk about what a crazy woman of the night she was. And how she invited this and how it wasn't this poor guy's fault. Exactly. Exactly. And letting him spend that story about how she sat there and like berated him about not

being able to get it up. Like, I don't think she did. I don't think she did. And even if she did. And even if she made like some kind of joke, I'm sure she wasn't berating you about it. And also get up and walk the fuck out., I'm sure she wasn't berating you about it. And also get up and walk the fuck out. No, you don't get to kill someone

because they make fun of you. No. And so yeah, so he's like the detective told him he could hide and Wilson insisted he was gonna take it like a man, he said. Oh yeah. Like this isn't some kind of a stash you can't grow. For your manliness, you're here because you killed a woman.

Take it like a man. But still, even the district attorney Frank Hogan, who made a point of never developing any kind of opinion of the individuals that he was prosecuting, he said Wilson was pleasant enough and very cooperative. But at the same time noted that he had no feelings, no remorse, he didn't care. He didn't care about anything.

So it's very easy to be pleasant and cooperative when you're a fucking robot. Like, that's like, yeah, of course he was. He's remorseless and emotionless. Exactly. Easy. It's just bananas. I love how it's like highlighting his good points.

And it's just crazy that they're like, hide your face, sweet boy. Yeah, we don't want people to be dumb. You don't mean to you. You don't serve this. You're on trial for want people to go. You don't mean to you. You don't serve this. You're on trial for murder, of course. You do ask the kill the woman. So stupid. So around 930, the night that he was extradited,

all the interviews were done, and administrative requirements were all squared away. He was taken from the 20th precinct to the Manhattan House of Detention for Men, which is otherwise referred to as the tombs. And he would sit there while he awaited his trial day. Damn. So about one month after his arrest in Indiana,

his lawyers, John Leneusey and Aaron Hafe, I believe, filed a motion with the Supreme Court justice, who at the time was Gerald P. Colkin. And they indicated that they were intending to rely on section 30-05 of the New York Penal Code, which provides that evidence of a mental disease or defect excludes a person from criminal responsibility. In other words, they were going for the insolvenous defense.

So the pre-trial hearing was set for February 15th, and their client had actually recently undergone a psychiatric evaluation. And among other things, the psychiatrist actually diagnosed Wilson as schizophrenia, homicidal, and suicidal. Oh, wow. And their argument would also be supported by the fact that Wilson was being held on the 10th floor of the tombs,

which was designated at the time as the psychiatric ward. Okay. So he definitely wasn't mentally well. Yeah. His days were filled with a whole lot of nothing. He just kind of sat in his cell and didn't really talk to anybody, he kept to himself. Sometimes he would get a call from his mom

or a letter from candy, or sometimes old cellmates would write to him, but he insisted that he didn't want anybody to visit him. He wouldn't take any visitors. Wow. So on Friday, May 4th, he was released after a two week stay at Bellevue, a hospital where he was being evaluated prior to his mental competency hearing.

But rather than return him to his individual cell on the 10th floor in the psychiatric ward, administrators, they would later claim that the 10th floor was overcrowded. So the guards returned him to a shared cell on the 4th floor, overcrowded. So the guards returned him to a shared cell on the 4th floor, which housed the general population. Wilson was given a tray of lunch, which he did not eat, and then he was sat down on one of the bunk beds, and he wrote a short letter to his wife, Candy. He said, this is only to let you know that I'm back at the tombs.

I don't know why I'm here, but I am Love John Wayne. The next day, a little afternoon, he actually ended up getting in an argument with the guard on duty when he asked for fresh sheets. The guard yelled at him for several minutes and then went to get the sheets and threw them at him, I guess, through an opening in the cell and the guard walked away. Wilson started preparing the sheets in a way where he could use them to end his life. All around him, the other inmates who could see what was going on in the shared cell Wilson started preparing the sheets in a way where he could use them to end his life. All around him, the other inmates who could see what was going on in the shared cell yelled, cut up, cut up, cut up, which is like yelling at the guards about what's happening. And the two guards on duty, they could hear the inmates yelling, but they took their sweet time

to reach the cell. I think they knew what was happening. I think that happens a lot. Wilson was actually still alive when they got to the cell and they cut him down. He had, and he had panged himself. But by the time he was able to be cut down and they laid him out on the floor, he was dead. Wow. So he had successfully ended his life. And they don't room full of people.

In a room full of people. Like that's very fucking traumatic for the people that were there. And back then, they weren't gonna have any kind of help after that. His suicide actually was the sixth to occur in city jails that year. So it sparked an administrative fire storm from the district attorney's office and from his own lawyers. They all accused the New York board of corrections and it's chairman who at the time was William Vanderhoovell. They accused them of ignoring the psychiatric and law enforcement reports that warned of his suicidal,

his suicidality, and they said, it allowed Wilson to languish in his cell, unattended and untreated, even though it was known that he had mental issues. Yeah. So the Board of Corrections, though, shot back in the form of a 47-page report accusing everyone from the district attorney and even Wilson's own lawyers

to admitting his admitting physicians and psychiatrists and the tombs themselves. They said they failed to properly identify the risk to the appropriate parties. Well, they didn't. They did not. He was at the 10th floor of tombs for the reeds. Yeah, that's the psychiatric boy. Exactly. But him ending his own life brought the Roseanne Quinn murder case to a very unsatisfying conclusion. Oh, and it simultaneously robbed the Quinn family of justice. Yeah, absolutely. His death and the administrative fallout kept the story in papers for a few more weeks, but eventually the story just faded out of the spotlight. Yeah. And it would stay out of the spotlight for a few years, but then it got revived in an unexpected way.

In the mid 1970s, a woman named Nora Efron, a columnist for Esquire magazine, she was asked by the editors to curate an upcoming edition that was dedicated exclusively to women's issues. So among those asked to contribute to the issue, were a novelist, or excuse me, was a novelist, Judith Rossner, and she wanted to contribute an article about Roseanne's murder a few years earlier, actually, and she was given the green light to do so. But when the time came to publish the issue, the editors at S. Quire thought that the article was going to result in some kind of legal action being taken against them by the family. So they refused to put it in there.

We invented it completely. But Rosner, she was really, she really wanted to get the story out there. So she decided, yes, persistent. So she decided to actually develop her article into a fictional account of the story, which she later published as the novel, looking for Mr. Goodbar. Oh, that's what this is based on. I've never seen it. Have you? No, I haven't seen it.

Have you? None of us have seen it. But like the investigation and press surrounding the case that inspired for it, looking for Mr. Goodbar presented the story where it's heavily implied that the main character's murder is her own fault. Awesome. Yes. That's what we're looking for. It's the result of her sexually liberated lifestyle,

and it could have been avoided if she had used better judgment. Cool. That message was carried into the 1977 film adaptation, which actually stars Diane Keaton in Richard Geer. I was just looking, I'm like, damn. Yeah. And his positive review of the film,

Roger Ebert, points out that the main character, Terry Dunn, is quote, looking for a combination of good times, good sex, and a father figure, but she isn't looking for danger, mistreatment, or death. At the same time, though, he was quick to point out that Dunn is at least partially responsible for her own death,

saying, promiscuous young women who frequent pick-up bars and go home with strangers are likely to get into trouble. Isn't that just so funny that it's like, it's their fault, but it's like, we're definitely not going to look at or try to remedy the man problem there.

Like, we're definitely not going to touch that. We're gonna say, women who do this are in danger. Yeah, that's it. Okay, so can we take a little like side step over and start talking about the root of that issue, which is the man you live in is going, it's like you're walking me into my next service. Okay, because it shocks me that we're not like,

yeah. But we need to start thinking about how we're raising these guys and like what's going on and like how we're allowing them to act and swild to me. Yeah, no, it's insane. Just like the press, the investigators before Rosner, Ebert and everybody else with similar understandings of her story completely overlooked the fact that Rosanne's murder could have been avoided had John Wayne Wilson not murdered her. Exactly.

That's all it comes down to. That's what kills me. We don't look at what we look at what she did to get murdered. And it's like, no, no, can we just talk about how he probably shouldn't be a murderer? Yeah. That would be the thing that would fix all of this. Exactly.

And the thing is, it's easy to kind of dismiss this. And I actually am guilty of doing it throughout this episode. We're dismissing the victim blaming and the slut shaming comments as old--fashioned and it's such a product of its time. It's not though. But that conversation is still happening to this day. Oh, yes.

This day we're still victim, but we are not, but people still are. Yeah, people, like, it's wild. Yeah, it happens everywhere. Mm-hmm. At all times. It's persistent narrative. It's really just like so sad. In 1973, just to end this, Roseanne Quinn's life

held such promise. She had such a bright future ahead of her. She found a way into a career that she loved working with deaf children. She found her way into a great group of friends who appreciated her, accepted her for who she was, and she discovered that she could have an active sex life

without the traditional patriarchal structure. Yeah. And she was willing to do so. But back then, and even fucking today, people are still judging her, and all of us good time gals like her. All of us good time gals. All of us good time gals. It's a bunch of crap.

It's a bunch of is what it is. Malacchi, it's a bunch of bullshit. And it really bums me out because she seemed like such a cool girl and just to have this be like the mark that she left, I don't think that's what she would have wanted. No, and it sucks. Like that sucks that this is all that gets talked about

and that that movie was made that kind of further push that narrative into it. I know when I loved Diane Keaton, she's like, I do too, but now I'm gonna watch you just to kind of like see it for myself. I hate it. I do too.

It's like really sad. And it really, it breaks my heart that her family was never able. Yeah. First of all, never able to get any kind of justice and then that movie ended up kind of furthering the narrative that it was her fault. Exactly. And that sucks. Exactly. So really sad case. That's a really sad case. Yeah. I feel like she was just brutalized in life and and death. Yeah, truly. Like they didn't let her rest. So stop judging people as the moral of the

story. Yeah, don't judge people. Let good time gals be good time gals and maybe just don't be a murderer. Yeah, that's it. That's the more late story. It's still fucking murder people. That's a great way to avoid this stuff is don't be a murderer. Because that's the thing that people are missing. You should be able to go out and have a good time

and do what you wanna do as a liberated free woman. Yeah. And go home and be able to share the story with your girlfriends the next day. Exactly. That's the thing. It's like it doesn't have to do with you being who you are. It has to do with you shouldn't have to worry about coming in contact with a murderer. No, it shouldn't be like, well I can't do what I want to do because that man could murder me. But sadly, that's so true for all of us. It is. Have you seen my keys?

Exactly. I have like a pokey thingy that could stab somebody in the eye. I have a while. I have a personal alarm on my keys. I have a really loud alarm on my keys. And I'm always walking around the target park and hold in that dagger like fuck with me. And but yeah, at one point I drove Ashes Car somewhere. Oh my God.

And I had to take the key off the big giant chain because I was like, I literally can't bring this inside because it's so loud and heavy. This key is so many different jangling large things. off the the big giant chain because I was like, I literally can't bring this inside because it's so loud and heavy. This is because there's so many different jangling large things. You would have been so protected girl. I was like, this is very loud. It is very common, but it's protective.

It is. It's very protected. Remember when we were driving and I accidentally set off the personal alarm and I couldn't figure out, I thought I was going to fly through a window. I was like, what just happened? I thought the same. Yeah, but necessary because it, I couldn't figure out. I thought I was gonna fly through a window. I was like, what just happened? I thought the same. Yeah, but necessary because. Unfortunately, people be murdering people.

People are murderers, unfortunately. Unfortunately, we are the people that are most often. Yeah. Like women are the victims of the crime. Yeah. So, RIP, Rosanne. I know. And guys, we hope you keep listening.

And we hope you keep it. Weird. But not so weird that you blame a girl for her own death when really it was the mother fuckers fall to kill her. Yeah don't do that. Love you bye bye Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash

survey. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill? Or are they made to kill? I'm Candace DeLong and on my podcast Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music, I share a quick 10-minute rundown every week day on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler.

On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings, Breaking Down Lori Vallow, a.k.a. Mommy Doom stays motives, and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder? I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey, Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psychie Daily

in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. Bye.