Morbid - Episode 442: The Burger Chef Murders Part 2

Episode Date: March 16, 2023

Burger Chef part two is here y'all and it comes with a bittersweet....or really just bitter conclusion. When we last left you, the police had done LITERALLY zero work to secure the crime scene or really investigate at all. But someone would come forward with new information. This person shared details with the police that only one of the killers would know, and yet this case remains unsolved. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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juicy episodes with one listener tale a month, just as a little cherry, little glitter on top of a crazy month. And we're going to keep doing that. But I think we were also debating what days would be best for this new two episode of Week Cadence because we figured, you know, from Wednesday to Monday is a long wait for us and for you too much. We'd all be sad. We don't want that. So we finally came up with a good cadence. We're going to drop episodes on Monday and Thursday from here

on out. So Mondays, Thursdays, that's when they'll come out on Wondery Plus. Then a week later, you will get them Monday and Thursday for everybody else. So that's what we're going to do. You deserve consistency. We want to give it to you. I know we didn't do that in the first like three years. We were like, Willie Nilly, whenever you get episodes, here it is. But you know, we're in that consistency train and we want to stay on that. And yeah, I think this is going to work for everybody. It just feels better. We don't want that big chunk of time between episodes. You don't need there. So yeah, that's what we're going to do. Monday's Thursday's new episodes. We're excited about it. It lets us really put more time and effort into these episodes, which is what they deserve, and what you deserve, and we fucking love you, and I can't wait to see you

every Monday and Thursday. I know I won't see you, I realize that I won't even hear you, but it feels like I will, and you will hear me. So, we're all in this together. We're best friends. Thanks, guys. Monday's Thursday's, woo-woo! Hey, Weirdos.

I'm Elena. I'm Alena. I'm Ash and this is morbid. It is! And we're just coming off of a little celebratory moment. Yeah! Just the obituary last night, live in Somerville. And Somerville, kids! and we got to meet some of our fucking podcast babies. It was beautiful. It was elegant. You probably saw a picture. It looks like the last supper but awesome. It does look like the last supper but better. But awesome. There's no grudas. Oh, oh, the ashes microphone is literally attempting to assault her

It's falling off of the table Mikey to the rescue Please gonna fix it. All right, we're back in better than ever and I just had a correction It's also it's Judas. I know it's Judas Brutus says the Caesar one. I you know Judas Brutus They're all betraying people. You know? I like Caesar dressing. Am I right? Yeah, that's my hot take. That's my hot take.

Today love, I also love Caesar dressing, as long as it's not too fishy. Yeah, that's fucking foul. Sometimes she gets one that's like, ooh, that's a lot of anchovy. Oh my gosh, I was gonna say, do you know why? I wanted to tell you something. It's really hard to tell you something

that you don't already know. that you don't already know. That you don't already know. Okay, it's a lot of souls coming out today. I am, we are both on like three hours of sleep. Yeah. Because we, we got to party hardy with our fucking friends. Yeah, it was wild. Like I got to be an adult and go out.

And by party hardy, I mean, Elena ordered a Shirley Temple. Just like a straight up Shirley Temple, you know, yeah, nothing added to it. And it was great. I'm happy about that. You know what Madison taught me last night? Madison from an obituary, which you should go see and my tickets to, plug plug. They are amazing.

She taught me to mix, and I think it's a Harry style song, to mix diet, coconut, red wine, and cavernet specifically. Sounds like absolutely disgusting. Yeah. And I was like I trust you. I took a sip Life-changing. It's it sounds fucking crazy. It's so good. I just hate diet anything It didn't you put it doesn't end up tasting diet because the I mean I like diet coke. I was gonna say I Difference I literally hate the taste of diet. Well, you could do it with regular codes too. It almost has like a sangria vibe. Oh, that's interesting.

You should try it. You should try it. Try, stop copying me. Oh yeah, I got yelled at. I accidentally, because I don't look at any, like I usually don't see any comments, because I'm just like, I don't go on the internet anymore. But we go on the internet to post what we want to post.

Exactly. And I'm out. We get that bread. And I happen to be on Instagram and I got one of those like banner notifications and it was somebody on a morbid post being like, hey, is anyone else notice how fucking annoying Elena is that she just repeats it? All the funny things that Ash says in a like different voice. And I was like, they said has anyone else noticed?

Yes. Has anyone else noticed how annoying Elena is? And I was like, why are you here? I was like, what did that get you? Sometimes I wonder if people think that's kind of like endearing me to them. And I'm like, oh my god, like I know, she sucks.

You're so nice for saying that. It's like, no, now Ash fucking hates you too. I don't like you. Don't get me into my sister fucking. Like that doesn't work. We're fucking pots. Like I got like whatever. It's like pit us against each other. I'm like, do you think Ash is gonna like you for that?

Like Ash is good. Like we ride a dawn for each other. Like it's not like we could punch each other in the face one day. Like we never have. We never have. but we could. And then Elena could call me and be like, Hey, I need you. And I'd be like, what time?

Yeah, let's go. Like I'm here actually. Who's cow we taken? Who's cow we taken? I feel like I can't say that because I've never seen that movie. That's a great movie. But it's not the town. But yeah, yeah, it is the town.

Hey, look at me. Yeah. So I just, you know, I just was like, wow, okay. You need to, um, you need to sign out of the morbid account on your phone. I do need to. Because then you don't get those banner notifications. Because that was the problem. I don't go looking because of our stock.

Because whenever I do, I accidentally, that's the only thing you'll see. You'll miss all the nice things that people say, which is sad, and you only will see that one nasty one because they always make sure to be like, has anyone noticed that, oh, Laila is annoying annoying and I'm like, okay. So sign out of that. But then you might need to also because I need to do this. You might need to unfollow

morbid, which is so sad. I'm so sad. But I follow morbid because like it's my podcast. Say it. That's my podcast. Oh my god, you're so annoying. You're so annoying. Ah. So I'll scroll by and it gives you that little two or three comments. I always see the meanest thing. Always. Why can't I speak? Yeah, that's because brain damage, okay? I don't know.

Those are always the ones that show. And I'm like, wow Instagram, that's fake as fuck. Why do you just show me the mean one? I saw one recently that was like, wow, has a podcast, but she can't fucking talk. That was like, all right. Well, there's two of us for when I can't talk. And I just got to ask again,

I know we've all asked this before, what's wrong with you? Like, who does that? Like, who just goes, like, what do you get out of that? It's like that girl who was like, has anyone noticed that Elena's annoying? I'm like, even if you gathered an army of people

that were like, we are the riders of Elena being annoying. And you started a group and you had meetings and like you had like a special handshake that you did. Like do you feel good? Like what else, what do you get a guy of it? Also, why are you doing a census on my post? That's the thing. And it's like on my post. That's the thing, and it's like, on my post.

That's the way you're getting the mail, I don't need to tell my post. But also that person followed me, and I was like, all right. Well, hate following is a thing that people love to do. Well, it's a hate following. It's like, you love me? I was literally like, sounds like someone

pretests too much. That would've, I don't think you find me annoying. I think you like me. I know. It's one of those things where you're like, oh my god, you shouldn't pay it any mind. Like of course, but sometimes you just got invented out. Which that's the thing.

It's like normally, like we've really gotten to a point years through this that we don't pay it any mind. Like the constructive stuff, sure. But like totally. Just people being dicks like that. Like that's not constructed at all. Like you can fuck yourself. Yeah, that's just me. But like, just people being dicks like that, like that's not constructed of it all, like you can fuck yourself. That's just, but like that listening to that kind of shit is like you're just you're being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole. And I don't know what you got out of it, but I

sure hope it gave you some kind of jolly because I hope it sounds like you need it. Well, also you're just like creating a negative space for yourself. And like I speak from experience, if you put things out into the world that are negative. Even if you're not talking shit, even if you're just talking negatively, it comes back to you. It's true. And then you're just attracting negative. Karma is the thing, man.

And I'm just a bun down. That's why we're... And you know, it took like a while to get here. But that's why we're in a place where we're just like, you know what, whatever. And we're also in a place of just like, we're gonna keep trying to like build people up that deserve to be built up.

Like that's why we shout out different creators for you guys to go check out. And you're also, because that's what. So that's the queen of that. I don't even do that as much as you. Like you're so fun, drop it. It's, no, it's just fun. And it's really fun to see when like, especially on TikTok, I've been seeing it lately and it's like really making me happy. You guys like fucking kill it.

Yeah. Because like morbid listeners will go follow these people that we mentioned. Right. And then they'll be like, Oh, I got, I came here for morbid and it's so fun to see. Of course. Because then it's like, they are, and they're always like, Oh, I'm so fun to see because then it's like they are and they're always like oh, I'm so excited to a found this This is so fun. And it's like I love like blowing those people up, you know what that's called Community that's called community. That's called my brothers in Christ. Hell yeah, that's what we are

That's called my brothers in Buddhism you guys are the real ones So don't think that we take like the the isn't Elena knowing ones as like our listeners That's that's not who we listen to. Don't worry about it. I can't talk. You guys, so yeah, you're exactly like you guys are the real ones. We know who you are. We know who this community is. We met a lot of you last night. It was so cool. It was wonderful. I will never, I will never not be cool. Yeah. So we know who you are. So don't worry. They don't represent you. But anyways, I just wanted to put it out there that like, you know, if you're doing that

kind of shit on the internet, like you might, you, you should probably reevaluate where you sit in life because that's a really pathetic thing to do one more thing. What? I just have to tell you, if you're doing that, I'm literally just picturing you sitting in a crusty basement, picking your toe cheese. That's actually very true. That's exactly because I'm like, you're not happy. And I know you have a fungal infection. And I'm sorry about it. But because think about all the times in your life that you have talked shit like that or been somebody like that when like you're younger.

All that. It was always in the worst fucking times of your life. It was never when you were happy. It was never when you were a fulfilled person. And that's why I'm just like wow that's sad. No, I can honestly say. That's a bummer for you. I have never written a nasty comment. Yeah, somebody else is Instagram. It's so strange.

What the fuck is wrong with you? It's so strange. Have I sub tweeted many, many, many people in my day? I was a fucking loopley. But I'm not going on podcast being like, oh, what time are you going to be in some tweet-a-true? We were in our breakup stage, and he texted me and he was like,

did you just fucking sub-tweet me? And I was like, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Like, I don't even know what a sub-tweet is. True, are you? Okay, he's like, we dated for a year and a half. I know you're the sub-tweet queen of the century. Like, I don't know him. Like, are you? And then I'm like, we'd I love you, Mary sum tweaked queen of the century. Like I don't know him. Like where are you?

And then I'm like, we'd I love you married me. Oh, love. I know. But it would have put a wildred. So lots of wildred. And a landscape where free and fast shipping is the norm. It could be hard for smaller e-commerce businesses to compete. But keep yourself competitive with ship station.

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and use code morbid at checkout. That's 20% off anything you order when you shop better hydration today using promo code morbid at liquidIV.com. All right. So we're in part two of a case. We're in part two of the Berger Chef murders. This is a really sad one. It is.

It's a bummer. It's technically still unsolved, which is always a hard pill to swallow. I love it though, and you say technically. Because then I get a little flutter. Yeah, because it's like, we got a pretty viable suspect. I never, I don't think I ever knew that. Yeah, there's a pretty viable one.

Sorry, did they come about recently or have they been buying? No, it's been out there, and we'll talk about them, but it's one of those things where you just can't pin it. It's like, probably because they are washed down the crime scene, that might have something to do with it. There was that hole, hole nonsense, and didn't investigate for like a minute. Yeah, for a solid minute. But what do you've period of time?

But by, so at the end of the part one, I was talking about how they really had exhausted What do you think you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing?

What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing?

What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? What do you've been doing? Now that the killer has a conscience. They're hoping that the person that the killer tells this to, they have a conscience and they come forward. Also, some killers are like pretty good at secrets. Yeah.

So that's, you should probably... That tends to be like one of their main traits. I feel like they should explore other avenues and investigative work. You never want to hear investigators go, well, the thing we're banking on... That he tells someone. Is that this guy just straight up confesses to someone? You might be waiting a while. of work. You never want to hear investigators go, well, the thing we're banking on is that this guy just straight up confesses to someone. You might be waiting a while. And not only that confesses to someone that has a conscience. It's like that's a lot. I don't want to rest all of my hopes and dreams on that. I'd rather rest it on like you investigating

the case. Same. You know, but either way, that sucks. So I had mentioned it before, but in 1978, Speedway police were dealing with a lot more shit than they normally did. This super small Midwestern town was really being pushed like to the limit of its resources. We mentioned in part one that there was these random horrific bombings that were seeming and were ended up being connected to the murder of a woman.

And that woman was 69-year-old housewife Julius Skiphers. She was shot to death under very mysterious circumstances. The bombings that followed were just more stress and mystery added on to this whole thing. They happened in September 1st, three bombings happened in Speedway. That's Saturday, there were two more. And then another one the next day, and the last one happened the following day

at Speedway High School. Oh my God. So it was just constant. A bombing is like one of my biggest. Yeah, and they were just from now. They were being put in trash cans and stuff, and at the high school, I think they were found in a gym bag.

Somebody picked up a gym bag and it exploded. And people were wounded by shrapnel. It was tough. And you said they went on solves too, right? The bombings. They did for a while. So these crimes were taking up all the resources and time that this really small town PD had to offer.

They were not able to muster up a lot more for anything else. And as November turned to December, state and local police were really just grasping at anything that could take the Bergerchef case forward. They just had nothing. But they were not entirely without leads. Because Speedway Police were continuing to receive leads from the public, from telephone calls, letters. And in the end, they actually produced at least 36 leads that they could deem at least slightly credible, which isn't a whole lot. But really, the best leads that they had were the tip from that young couple who had been approached by

those two men in the parking lot of the Bergerchev because they were packing. And this was them because they went neck and this was like an hour or so before the robbery and kidnapping occurred. So this was a pretty good witness statement to have. The police department didn't have a sketch artist on chef. On chef on staff. I didn't even catch that. I'm tired. I need more caffeine. But they also didn't have the funds or resources available to get a professional one. So detectives found and hired Robin England, who was an art student at Ball State University. Ball State.

Also was the niece of one of the investigators on the case. And they were willing to create sculpture buss from the descriptions that were provided by the witnesses. And those witnesses later said that the buss were, quote, between 95 and 100% accurate. Wow. Buss are always so interesting to me. These buss are very interesting-looking buss. I will say. I saw that little, little, little glimmer in your eye. They're very interesting-looking. And a composite drawing was made from the bus, and it was circulated throughout the press.

OK. Now, and again, we have the witnesses saying that these are very accurate. So that means that the composite images are pretty accurate, 95% to 100% that's huge. And at one point, we're going to see that they were able to find a couple of guys that literally are like dead ringers for these guys.

And somehow they weren't able to place them in speedway at the time of the murder. Isn't it like shocked me? Are they in the assessment? No. So photographs of these buss were circulated around the media. And a statement from state police, Sergeant Chuck Hibbert was releasing. We are not calling these two men suspects. We just want to talk to them.

Which is, we just want to talk to you, literally, I was just going to say. We just want to talk, man. We just want to talk, man. We'll hand it up, hand it. We're out of breath. Yeah, it's off the record. It's fine.

So beside these witness statements and witness accounts, this was really the biggest evidence they had was these composite images. Lee. So detectives hope that publishing them was maybe going to jog someone's memory around that time. Someone from the public that was around the burger chef had maybe cocklimbs to these guys

and seeing the composite image was going to make them go, oh shit, yeah, I did see them. And they were hoping this person would come forward, help with an ID. However, the images definitely prompted people to call in about 600 calls to police. Wow. None of them produced a concrete lead. Not one. Now do you think that was because the tip sucked or do you think that was because the police department sucked? I don't know. That's the thing. The combination. Honestly, that is that's kind of the theme of this case. Everyone sucks. It's like, could it have been solved if they just did their jobs? Better.

Yes. And it's like, yeah, I think so. I think I said it last time, or it might have been after we finished recording. If they hadn't cleaned up that crime scene, they could have dusted for prints and obviously maybe couldn't have done a lot with them back then. But now, boom, boom, we'd have them. And it's like, at this point, we have no idea what evidence was left at that scene.

Nothing. There could have been DNA at that scene. What? There could have been anything at that scene. There could have been hell, there could have been a photo, they could have taken a Polaroid photograph of themselves at that scene

and left it on the floor of the counter, and it was thrown away. We literally don't know. There could have been a mural painted on the wall by one of them. We're going into the Portraits. Like it could have just, I'm just an artiste. You're like, there could have been a razor scooter

belonging to one of the murderers that had DNA on it and they parked it. But you know what? They're could've been, and I'm saying. We don't know, because they just cleaned it all up and threw it away. They could've hit one of those detectives in the ankle. And you didn't even fucking know it.

Exactly, we don't know. That is the most frustrating thing. It's so weird. It's not that they're like, oh, there was blood and they cleaned it up. It's like, we don't fucking know. We have no idea what evidence was at that scene that could have absolutely nailed these fuckers. And it makes me crazy.

Well, if one of them had a beard, too, you're like, I know that shit was shed. I know your shit was not taken care of. It was shed and done. No, it... So as 1978 came to an end, the murders were kind of starting to fade out of the papers. That's fuck. People are starting to move on. Nothing's happening in the case. From the brutal killing of four years in town.

And when I say people, I mean everyone, but these poor victims' families who are still sitting there waiting for fucking justice. And police are just hitting wall after wall after wall. The reward money that the Bergerchev Corporation put out there, unclaimed just sitting there. And apparently, even the typically very chatty jailhouse informants could not help push anything forward.

And they were actually, there's a quote in the Indianapolis star that said, the Marion County jail, whose prisoners are usually a gold mine of information about crimes in central Indiana, had not yielded a single good tip about the murder. Wow. Like, that's pretty wild. Now, with the public kind of fading away from this case, the headlines are fading away. Investigators are now desperate to keep it

in the papers, keep the public engaged, keep the pressure on these. They know they have to make up for what they've done. Right. Like what they haven't done for their negligence. So the Indianapolis star actually set up this new system and with the system readers could submit tips or other information anonymously, okay, which always helps, I feel like it always gets people to talk more. And what they said was some of you may not realize you hold valuable information that just may add police and solving the crime. And it said that it said, do not sign the letter, but put a five digit number at both the

top and the bottom page, then make a jagged tear across the bottom of the sheet just above the number. Okay. Just like that seems like a lot. That's very intricate. Can I just write in? A lot of people are going to be intimidated by that? A lot of people are gonna be intimidated by that. A lot of people are gonna fuck that process up.

Yeah, I'm gonna be honest. If I, I'd be like, oh, okay. And then I'd read, like, put a five digit thing. I'd be like, oh, okay. And then it'd start and then it would be like, also make this ja, and I'd be like, I'm out. Like that's the third thing you asked me to do, I'm out. You know what that reminds me of?

And I don't know if it will make sense to anyone else. It reminds me of the instructions for a scan tron test. Oh, that's absolutely going to make sense to everyone listening. I feel like that like to the, you get it. Absolutely. Yeah. Like your teacher would be like, okay, fill in this bubble with this specific pencil. Do not fill in the bubbles that are colored like this.

Yeah. And you were like, I have so much anxiety right now. Write your name up here. Write your name on the bottom. Write your class number here. Yes. Write your class number here. Don't you dare write your class number here. Write my name over here. And you're like, can I just take the test? Like, but what's my name?

What's my name, though? I don't understand. So the stars were a reward desk immediately started receiving letters off of this because people were apparently non-antimidated by it. Okay. We're all like, we would suck at this. but in 78, they were like, we're fine with it. I mean, yeah, you know, they had to do a lot of shit. Hey there, fellow podcast listener. It's Elena. And Ash. And we're taking you back to the

days before streaming services. Whoa. You know when you would come home from high school and it was only a few hours until that TV show everyone was watching was about to come on. Well in 1999, that show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In our podcast with Wondery, the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer, we take it back to 1999. So get out your knee high boots

and paste that poster of Angel on the wall. It's time to enter the Buffyverse. Some of you avid morbid listeners already know what we've gotten store. Hey, my nose. Join us as we sway our way through Buffy's drama, action and romance. Episode by Episode Slacy.

Follow the rewatcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon Music of Wondery's podcast American scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in US history, presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our newest series, we look at the Kids for Cash scandal, a story about corruption inside America's system of juvenile justice. In Northeastern Pennsylvania, residents had begun noticing an alarming trend. Children were being

sent away to jail in high numbers and often for committing only minor offenses. The FBI began looking at two local judges, and when the full picture emerged, it made national headlines. The judges were earning a fortune, carrying out a brazen criminal scheme, one that would shatter the lives of countless children and force a heated debate about punishment, an America's criminal justice system. Follow American scandal wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wonder App. So, some weren't like super detailed. Like one came from Johnson County from a man who

said that he saw a suspicious man who bore a striking resemblance to the clean-shaven man, and this man was standing alone on stones crossing road on November 18th. That's it. All right. Just like, saw this guy that looked like that guy without a beard standing on his street. On that day, over there. I guess I saw him. I saw him on that night and he was standing. And he didn't have a beard. That man was not sitting, he was standing.

And I imagine that these robbers, imagine they were standing. So, I standing so like did he looks a case closed my friends and like you just waiting for Thanks for that I guess like we'll keep that mind that that road Contained a man that was standing I So then there was other ones that were a little more detailed one came from a greenwood gas station attendant ones that were a little more detailed. One came from a Greenwood gas station attendant. He wrote in saying that he actually recognized those buss as two men who'd short-changed him

in the early morning hours of November 18th. I have something to say. Ooh. If a gas station attendant tells you something, listen, listen. Yeah, they know, like in an instrumental investigation. I feel like they know. Just hit a criminal.

Not like audits, I put. I feel like they know. Yeah. Just hit a criminal. Not like audience type, but. Or an urban legend, the movie. When that poor man was just trying to scream someone's in the back seat. Oh, that man. And she was being a dick. She was being such a bitch. That's one of those situations where you're like,

you had the day you deserve to grow. I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, man is so sweet. So sweet. And he was just trying to tell you something and he's a gas station attendant. Yeah, he knows he knows they have seen some shit. They're Harbingers. They tell you when evil is a foot and you need to listen to about our friend at the gas station. He knows what the fuck. Hell yeah, he always knows what's And he is all the fucking drama hell yeah, he does so listen to your local gas station if they're informed you about a crime and this guy saying that on November 18th and the early morning hours he was short-changed by two men who looked like those

buss and of course you're gonna remember that yes because and he said it was strange because these men bought $12 worth of gas for their black Chevrolet so he was able to provide that and he, but they attempted to pay with a $5 bill in two singles. So they attempted to pay $7 for $12 worth of gas. I think he thought like that they would they probably thought that he would just take the five thinking it was a 10. They could leave before he noticed, which like, you're an asshole. The fact that you just broke that down so easily because like, because a 10 and two single, I think they just did it to so easily. Because like, because of 10 and two, yeah, I think they just did it to be Dix and like hope

he wouldn't notice, but I'm like, no, he's smarter than you. Now, he immediately pointed out this error. And he was like, I think you gave me the wrong bill. And they're like, Oh, okay. So they went back to their car. They got the money. But then he said they both quote, spued obscenities at him while driving off. And it's like, okay. You stole his gas.

To me, that's a pretty credible tip. Yeah, because that's already a crime. And they seem like the kind of pieces of shit that would do something awful. Right, so maybe track down on that. Like if you're that big of a piece of shit, you're a piece of shit, through and through.

So the tips from the Speedway Police Hotline and the Indianapolis Stars' Reward Desk, they prompted hundreds of responses, but really only a handful actually produced viable leads that they could even chase down, and then when they chase down those leads, nothing. Even the viable leads, they chase down nothing. So after two months of investigation,

there was still not even a clear motive for this crime, because the robbers had seemingly gone into the burger chef to rob the restaurant. But if that was the case, why the fuck did they kidnap and murder 14s there? Like, why did they do that? And it's like, we always hear the robbery gone wrong explanation for these kind of situations, but this was really wrong. Like this went really wrong, and not only really wrong, but they took them far away. Well, that's the thing.

I feel like that's not, that's not even a typical robbery gone wrong. They're just gonna like presumably shoot them and leave them there. That's the thing. That would be in typical robbery gone wrong. They're just going to like presumably shoot them and leave them there. That's the thing. That would be in that's a robbery gone wrong that they just start shooting. Right. And everybody is at the scene. Right. Very rare. I mean, typically, robbers aren't in the habit of executing people in the middle of the woods. Like pretty rare for that to happen. So the best explanation that detectives could have come to was that something had thrown them off their plan that night. That they went in there ready to rob that place

and some unexpected thing happened that threw the whole thing into just shenanigans. And the only difference that night that they could come to was the presence of Mark Flemmons. He had switched shifts with another employee. Investigator started to theorize Mark Flemmons. He had switched shifts with another employee. Investigators started to theorize that Flemmons knew or could at least identify one or more of the robbers who were thrown off by his presence and killed all of them in a panic. I don't agree with that. I think they're looking at that theory from the wrong angle in my opinion. I don't think it was that Mark knew these people.

I think it was that they went in there thinking there was four specific people that were going to be working, which it also was a girl who was supposed to be working in Mark's place. I wonder if they went in there saying, okay, there's three girls, there's one boy, and the boy is like a 16 year old. We can take them. And then when they went in there and they saw now there's two strong like, you know, there's two like teenage boys that threw everything off. I don't think it had to do with Mark knowing who these criminals were. Because why would the only people that I would think he would know are like his fellow high school?

That's the thing. I'm like, I don't see that. I think this is the work of two high school students. No, exactly. But even with all of that, it's still like that. Even if they came in there and they saw what they were not expecting to see, which is apparently an extra boy instead of an extra girl. Because that's just my random speculation. I can see that like throwing everybody off. But like to that extent? Yeah, not to that's exactly it, not to that extent. It's just that there's a lot of unanswered questions in that. I feel like that's a theme of this whole thing. Yeah, every time you think you're like, oh, well, maybe this happened, you're like, no, that doesn't make sense. But maybe this is one of those things too that it's like,

it doesn't make sense. None of it's senseless. So like, maybe that's what it is. That was very profound. Thank you. I thought so too. That was really awesome. So by March of 1979, really the problem,

the territorial thing between the departments, the fragile egos. It was again causing problems for the Bergerchev murder investigation. And there was a lot of confusion among the press that was happening. On March 7, the Indianapolis News reported, quote, Speedway Police Chief Robert Copeland and all his officers were ordered by his police commissioners and state police not to talk about any aspect of the November slangs. So they're essentially saying there was a gag order put on them. Right.

But then when reporters asked more about this, they were told by the state police superintendent John Settle or Shettle, excuse me. This is the first I've heard of it. We don't dictate to anyone. We try to cooperate in a case like this. Those are two very conflicting things. Yeah, that's opposite day, baby. And then in the same vein, a spokesperson for the governor's office said, quote, gag orders

are the authority of the judicial system, right? Which implies that unless a judge has issued that check, that gag order, you're not under a gag order. So it's so wild with that, and there was no explanation for this. So it seems like Copeland's, you know, gag order, quote unquote, really was nothing more than just an attempt to avoid questions. Like, and they didn't, and not take on more scrutiny or deal with more scrutiny from the press.

Basically, not wanting to confront the fact that they had made zero progress in this case and that it was botched from the start. And he was like, if I just say there's a gag order and nobody can talk about it. And it won't bring any focus to the negligence that we have committed. Because that's the thing, he just doesn't have answers.

So he's like, I can't say anything. It's like, but you're just lying and making people believe you less. He put a gag order on himself. He said, if you don't have anything to say, don't say anything. Don't say anything at all. Because what could you say if you don't have

anything to say? But then he just lied. And I was like, that's something. Like a liar. He lied right out of his face and into their faces. Fucked up, brother. But whatever. So investigators thought they actually found, they had actually caught a break in April.

Okay. They finally something popped. Two men were arrested in Chicago on murder charges. And they were discovered to bear a pretty uncanny resemblance to the composite sketches. Here we are. Now, on April 24th, Milwaukee Police, because it was in charges were in Milwaukee. Milwaukee Police arrested Steven Coffee and Norman Peppin.

These were two criminals from Somerville, Massachusetts. I was there last night. Oh my god, they're fucking stomping grounds. There it is. So they were arrested for attempting to cash $300 and travelers checks, but those traveler checks had been stolen from travelers. Not just a random person, but one of two men killed in a quote execution style killing. Oh, yeah. The previous day, they had been flagged as being dead ringers for the composite sketches execution style killings. Oh, yeah, it gets even crazier. So on Monday, April 23, they met three men. And this is what happened. They met three

men at a Milwaukee holiday in. They were in the city for an engineering conference and the four of them went to a disco as you do. Love's it. Now on their way back to the motel, they pulled off the side of the road and they robbed these men at gunpoint. Jesus. They took them to a disco and then robbed them.

And what's even wilder about this is they then quote, forced them to lie down in a ditch and shot them to death. Dude. Does this sound familiar? Sure does. Now miraculously, one of the men survived. Wow. And he called the police and was able to identify these two.

And he even shot. Yeah. Holy cow. Now based on their resemblance to the sketches and the fact that this was very similar, made them lie down, face down in a ditch before shooting them. That all that like similarities to the Berger chef case, they had coffee and pep and extra

dited to Indiana. They don't blame them because they were like, yeah, we got at least look at this. Yeah, talk to y'all. There they appeared before a judge and they had to wear paper bags over their heads because they couldn't jeopardize a lineup. And it would have tainted a lineup to have their faces out there. I love that crafty, crafty solution. And don't you love that visual?

Yes, I do. It's so weird. It feels wrong. Now, unfortunately, apparently, when they looked at the timeline of everything, police announced on May 1st that coffee and pep and were no longer people of interest in the Berger chef case. Did they give reason? Just like the timeline didn't match up. But I'm like, okay, but like why?

Like, I need you to say because they were in Chicago and this happened. Well, and that's, and it's like, yeah, the timeline didn't work. I'm like, what about it? Well, and also it's like, I don't know if I trust you. Oh, I know. With this case, I know that I don't. Yeah. I don't know about that. Yeah, girl, me either.

I just don't know about that. You know, say, yeah, but by October of that year, investigators once again found themselves just completely lead lists on this whole thing. And it seemed like the Berger Sheff murders were really fading out of the forefront here. They were fading out of the press. People aren't taking as much interest. And on October 2nd, the Metropolitan Board of Police Commissioners voted unanimously to fire police chief Robert Copeland. Oh, shit. And they voted to do this because of his lack of leadership on the bombings and the murder of Julia,

and then also the Bergerchef murders. So all the recent crimes. All the things that he failed to lead his department about. All of his jobs. And so he was fired. And then after that, there was a bunch of dismissals or transfers of at least a handful of other law enforcement officers

that had something to do with the Bergerchef case. Wow. So they got either transferred out or they were just dismissed. That's interesting that some of them got transferred out and some got dismissed. It's a very strange. I also don't know about that.

I don't know about that. Now, so years are going by at this point. Tips are starting to dry up. They're coming in, but they're not really doing anything. Leads are definitely nowhere to be found. And the case is really going cold at this point. Then in December of 1984, Indianapolis star journalist Dan Luzeter. I think it's Luzator Luzator. I thought Luzator?

Luzator, and I was like, I don't think Luzator. I think it is. He received a call from an inmate, an inmate from the Marion County jail. Finally, their chitchat. All right. Now, this inmate was in there after being arrested for a ton of thefts.

This man said that he had information about the Berger Sheff case. He said, it's going to be a great story. And I will happily give it to you as long as you're willing to help me out. No. And so Dan was like, yeah, I don't know how I can possibly help you because I'm a journalist.

Like I'm not a judge. So like I don't know what to tell you. But he was like, you know what? It's worth finding out at least what he has to say. So he made his way down to the Marion County jail to talk to him. Now at this point, the Bergerchef murder case is six years old. And at this point, like every single detail had been told, retold in the newspapers. They've been, it'd been turned around, it'd been lied about, it'd been retracted, all

this stuff. It's just been through the mud. It has, through the thick of it. But it was, I guess this reporter Dan, he said that there was something about the story that he was telling him that seemed truthful, like it seemed real. And he said more importantly, the man claimed to know the identities of who was responsible for the murders.

Well, so we got to hear that. And he said one of those people has already been dismissed by investigators. Maybe that's why they were transferred. And then he said the other one was a name that he had actually heard, but that he this reporter had never heard before, but the police definitely had. This guy's name was Donald Ray Forester. Now, Donald Ray Forester's name, like I said, didn't ring a bell to Dan, but it definitely rang a bell with the Speedway Area Police, because since he was a teen,

Forrester had been very familiar with law enforcement. He was a petty criminal, disorderly conduct, like petty theft, reckless driving, those kind of things. What did I say in the beginning? I said, this is not their first radio. No way. There you go. I knew it. But then after all these petty thefts and these little crimes, he definitely escalated to a violent crime in 1977.

So right before the Bergerchef murders, he was arrested for quote, assault and battery with the intent to gratify sexual desires. Holy shit. Which is a mighty escalation. Yeah, that is. Now, Forester had actually been out on parole when the Berger Sheff murders were committed,

and he was arrested again for rape in April of 1979. Wow. So was this goes in line? We're the two female victims checked to see if they had like any signs that they had been raped? It didn't seem like they had been nothing that I read suggested that they were. Okay. But he had been sentenced to 95 years in prison. Wow. So good. So Dan Luzeter, he went on like a research deep dive on the Berger Sheff murders and on Donald Ray Forrester because he was like, I got to try to make a connection here. And then he finally contacted Forrester,

who was actually serving out his sentence at Pendleton Reformatory. So, he finally got him to agree to meet with him, and the meeting was June 24, 1985. Now, at that point, Forester had already been questioned by investigators about the Berger Chef murders. He had failed to polygraph tests, But he was saying that he knew nothing about the case. Nothing about the crime. It's so funny. Because when somebody I'm rooting for, fails a polygraph, I'm like, it means it may not doggin a trench coat. And then when somebody, I'm like, I don't know about you. I felt like they did it. He like, yep, that was it. I know, it's so true. But so this reporter though was like, because he, again, he's saying he knew nothing about the case,

this reporter is not gonna give up hope though because he's like, there's some connections here. The timing is making sense. He was out on parole during that time. He had just escalated to a lot of violence. Yeah, and he committed another act of violence after. Yeah, it's not like his name was just pulled out of thin air. You know, but when he's going to meet with him,

he's like, I have to be realistic about this. He might not give me anything. So when he went, he asked Forester, he said, did you commit the murders? And Forester said, I did not. But then, lose it or begin just like, Dan, he began like pondering aloud. He's like, you know, I just wonder why. Why did

these murders occur? You know? And I guess Forester, who was not asked directly this, just gave an answer and said it was drugs, drugs and homosexuality. What? Yep. And he went on to say he was innocent, but he said he did know who committed the murders. And he said, I'll give you that information. If you get me a new trial for the rape charges that I'm in here for. Dan is like one more time for the people in the back. I'm a fucking journalist.

I can't give you a new trial, dude. I can write you a bomb ass, are you? Yeah. That's pretty much all I got. That's all I got, man. Maybe I could put a good word in with my editor. I don't know. It's just like, are you kidding me?

But over the next few weeks, Dan Luzeter spent hours and hours and days and days just investigating Forester. And eventually he got to interview Forester's ex-wife. Oh, shit. Oh, yeah. Now his ex-wife, she told lose it her and she told lose it her that you need to bring detectives to this house. Okay. So he did. He brought detectives and she led them to shell casings that were hidden in the

couple's septic tank that matched the ones found in the burgrishem murders. I don't even know where my septic tank is, but they do. How are you like, yeah, what? Yep. Why? So then, does that mean that they weren't flushing their septic tank?

I have no idea how that works. You're like, don't ask those questions. I have no idea. You're like, what's a subtle one? I'm like, I don't know what they were doing. But what the fuck? But Lucid are brought this information to Forrester. And was like, yeah, like, do you want to say anything about that? And he was like, Oh, no, I'm still innocent. But then he kept, he was like, coily giving pieces of information that you were like, why would you know that? How do you know that?

But he kept saying he wanted something in return. And Dan again is like, I have nothing to do. So detectives were called in here to talk to him and detectives spent weeks with him. They drove him to locations around where that they thought might be connected to the murders. They brought him to a hypnotist in Akron, Ohio, but he would not admit to doing it.

And he said he'd never been there. He had nothing to do with it. Investigators were so frustrated at this point. But eventually, he did provide the names of two men that he claimed were the killers. But detectives interviewed these two men and they immediately knew he was lying. And also like, oh, you just took the shell casings for them? Yeah, exactly. And you were fucking stuff to tank all these years? Well, they were like, as soon as they sat down

and started talking to them, the two men, they were like, no, no, like this is a lie. Right. So by November of 1986, now nearly eight years after the Berger-Chef murders occurred, detectives were just done. They were like, Dan, for our Donald Forester is not going to do the right thing. He's not going to confess.

Of course not. We just have to try to get some evidence to force it, and then they were stunned because they received a call that year, saying that Donald Forester wanted to chat with them. So no one understands why or what led this to happen, but Donald Forester sat down with these detectives on November 10, 1986 and he gave a detailed confession of the murders. So what do you mean that this is unsolved? So and these were things details that only someone who was there that night could have known. Like he described the positions of the bodies, the wounds they suffered. One of the things he said was that Daniel Davis

had been shot in the cheek and that had never been released to the public. So why didn't did he get a pretty spit? Well, he's in jail for 95 years. Oh, right. So, yeah. But did he have to, like, well, he also told investigators that the gun that was used, they threw in the white river,

which makes sense that they never found the gun. That's a big old river. And he also confessed that it was him who had shot Ruth Shelton and Daniel Davis. He admitted to the two, which also makes sense because Jane and Mark were the ones that were found further away. So not only did he confess, but he's confessing correctly, saying, I'm the one who shot the two that were found on the ground.

Holy shit. Yeah, it's like this guy did it. And did he say who he did it, whether he wouldn't give them the name? Now, so according to him, the murders quote resulted from an effort to collect a large debt over a cocaine deal that involved one of the victims. And the crimes had been committed

by multiple people, obviously. Now, this was not seeming to be the real story because if we look at the four people in like the four victims, it doesn't add up. So everybody was like, I don't know about that. But in 1981, Jane Freetz brother James was arrested on cocaine charges. Oh, so you think maybe they went there to like fuck with his sister. Yeah. To like intimidate him. Mm-hmm. And he actually said at the time of his arrest that he suggested that James murder could have been connected to his arrest.

Cocaine shit. Oh no. It doesn't look like the investigators followed up on it at the time though in 81. What the fuck were they doing? It was in 81. Right. Like only a few years after a couple of years after the murders, that that he was it at the time though in 81. What the fuck were they doing? It was in 81. Right. Like only a few years after a couple of years after the murders,

that that he was arrested, James brother. And at that time, he said to investigators, guys, I think this might be the reason that my sister was killed and they didn't follow up on it. Like, and now this guy is sitting here saying that it's a cocaine deal. And is there any notes or anything like a do to do do to do. But that's like wild that they just didn't follow like yeah. I cannot imagine a more poorly fucking handled case than this. No. All the way through. Seriously. Because it's like it's also once you look at the scene you're like yeah're like, yeah, that actually makes perfect, fucking sense. Exactly. You're like, okay, now I see that's why they didn't take the ring. That's why they didn't take the cash. They took

the money out of the thing. They got what they wanted and then they got to, and that's what it makes sense. Yeah. That's brutal. Yeah. Now, based on this whole thing, police now connected the murders to the huge drug ring that had been operating in Speedway at the time. Okay. It was run by a guy that Forester actually implicated as the individual who planned the whole thing in the first place. Yeah, because he was running it, so he wanted his money.

Exactly. Now, in exchange for the information, Forester was granted immunity from prosecution for this because he was already was already for 95 years. But he was only going to be granted that if he hadn't committed the murders, which he already confessed to. Okay. So they kind of like played a little game. And two weeks, but this kind of backfired, because two weeks later, he recanted. And he said that he had been coerced to confess by police and that they threatened to you know They threatened all this stuff and that he was when he was sent back to prison

He was going to be labeled an informant and like that was going to get him killed So that was him getting scared that he confessed right that he told all the shit about a huge drug ring Yeah, when he went back in that they were going to like clearly make him pay for it. Exactly. So now that confession is recanted and investigators are looking for anything that can tie physically forced or to these murders. I mean, that confession is great because he gave the details that only someone there could know, but they have nothing physical.

And then it's like if he's saying it's he was coerced into that, it's their word against it. Because then he can say, well, they gave me those details. Exactly. But so they're trying to come up with anything and they came across a charge from 1969 where Forrester was actually arrested for sexually assaulting a 14 year old girl. Wow, he's a piece of actual human garbage.

Yep. In a wooded area off stones crossing road, which was about a mile and a half from where the Berger Sheff human garbage. Yep. In a wooded area off stones crossing road, which was about a mile and a half from where the Berger Sheff murders occurred. Wow. Now, for some reason, he was never sentenced for sexual assault. Oh, good.

But it kind of proved that one, he's a piece of shit and two, that he's familiar with the area in case that they were found. Now, unfortunately, District attorney Stephen Goldsmith didn't think this was sufficient to prove his guilt, which I can kind of see. If I was on a jury, I don't know if that was moving me. It's just not enough. That's the thing. Now, his confession and then the recanting of that put the district attorney in a really bad position. There's one hand that's like the, like

I said, the details. It's in here. It's in here. It's in here. That he is one of the killers. Absolutely. And near certainty. But on the other hand, this story had unraveled and been told and retold and fucked around so many times that it was now really difficult to tell what was true and what was lies and

what was manipulated and what wasn't. But the fact that he knew the details of like, one of them being shot in the cheek with that it had never been released. And they all believed like he 100% is one of the killers. Like that is it, but it just makes proving it a totally uphill battle. And the biggest problem that the district attorney faced

was that so many people had been involved in the investigation and had contact with Forester. And all of them had received varying versions of the story and none could settle on just one version of the story. Yeah. So it was like, no one could even settle on like, this is the narrative.

And then what makes everything worse is that the territorial stuff and the ego stuff had completely plagued everything about this case over the years had led to so many miscommunications, tainted evidence, missing evidence, there was going to be a mistrial if they brought this 100. It was 100, 100%. It was such a tainted investigation from the beginning. Fucked from the start. Exactly. It was. Now, on December 20, 1986, DA Goldsmith called a meeting with investigators from all the agencies involved in this case. Together, they combed over four-star statement. It was 1200 pages. statement. It was 1200 pages. 1200, all the statements that he had made. Holy can only. And after reviewing everything, Goldsmiths held a press conference and he made an announcement.

He said after careful consideration of this entire thing, he would not be pursuing charges against Donald Ray Forstair for the Berger Sheff murders. So bad for those families. They must have had hope for the first time in like so many years and then just have that ripped away from you. And he said that it like killed him. Of course. To not do it, but he said too many years have gone by. Too many mistakes have been made in this case. And I don't know if we're going to be able to solve it.

No. Well, the thing is like like, legally solve it. Exactly. Like, I think everybody kind of knows what happens at this point. And it's like, that's horrible for the family that they had that hope, but at the same time, I'm glad that he realized that they didn't have enough because if all those families had to go through trials, and be opening all of that, And then to have an end in a mistrial or not guilty, fuck that. Exactly. That's the thing. Because it's like if they had gone through with it,

it just would have tainted it further. Exactly. So it's like, I understand why he was like, it's really not worth it to do this. Oh, it's such a bummer though. I know, it bummed me out so much. It's like more than a bummer. No, he did it.

Now in 2003, oh shit, 25 years after the murders, Rachel and John Shelton, who are the parents of Ruth Shelton, they gave an interview about the still unsolved Berger Chef murders. And they said, at first, I was convinced that it would be solved. That's what her mother said. And she said, I guess we sure don't hold our breath about it. It was a very long time ago, which is like so sad because that's just like like just throwing our hands up like no one's gonna do it. Now they had both hoped the killer would have been caught, but then when detectives told them that they didn't have enough evidence to prosecute the suspects, John Shelton said to be honest, I don't even want to know their names.

Like he was like, I don't know me really. Because it like, if I don't know for sure, then I don't want to harbor hatred and resent toward one person that motor could not have done it. So it's like, forget it. I don't want to deal with it. It's so half-ass at that. I know. I know. I mean, like, fuck off.

Yeah, like whatever. And today the Berger Chef murder case is open, but inactive. It's so hard because it's like, now there's no evidence. It's just sitting there. And all the evidence that they do have all the notes, all the statements and everything. It's in a five-door file cabinet and six and a half-foot wall locker that's at state police district 52 office just sitting there, just not being touched. It's been years since they've pursued any leads. And most of the pursued any leads. Most of the original investigators are actually all of the original investigators on the case have you retired

or died. The Bergerchef restaurant chain was actually sold to CKE restaurant holdings in 1982 and it is now Hardee's restaurant, which I didn't know. I don't know, but have I heard of Hardee's? Hardee's, it's like burgers, I think. Oh, okay. Yeah. And today, the old burger chef restaurant on Crawford's Velroden Speedway, it's empty. Oh, that's chilling.

Really, yeah. Yeah. But then at the same time, it's like, what would you want to see go up there? I know. Other than a memorial. No, it's true, like something. No, it's true, like something. I know it should be like a park. No, it's true. Like something. I know it should be like a

park. Yeah, I feel like. Yeah. You know, but in the end, we're just left with this nothing, this frustrating void of information that we know if more investigatory like due diligence was done from the get go and people didn't walk into this thing with a preconceived narrative in their head and they had actually taken even one fucking photo of that scene that this all could be different is mind boggling. But now we're sitting here and they're trying to solve this case that was just completely erased from the beginning. They erased it right from the beginning.

Literally they magic erased it away. Yeah. And it's like, and then they're trying to like, you know, right from the get go, they're all sitting there being like, well, I think these kids just, you know, they decided that night to just steal all the money out of the safe and then took off together. Like that was their first theory. And it's like with no prior past of any kind of yeah, with no criminal past, like it's just like, okay prior past of any kind of fucking, with no criminal past. Like, it's just like, okay, I see you, I see you. And then later they theorized that it must be Mark,

the only black employee that was taken out of that restaurant that day, who knew the killers and that he was the reason that they were all killed. And it's like, with what fucking evidence, you have no evidence to back that up. Your racist. Like like we're just going to go with Mark being the problem here i don't think any of them were the problem here i think they were all victims and i think i do think that if jane's own brother suggested that his the cocaine

stuff could have been to do with it like his sister's murder murder. Yeah. I think we should listen to them. Right. They're telling some follow up questions on that. And he's not bullshitting. It's not like her brother is being like, oh no, blah, blah. He's massively saying, like probably out of guilt, like probably out of anger and sadness and grief.

Like this could have had something to do with it. Like investigate it. And they were like, why would he you say that other than to be like, please, like investigate this. He's not gonna implicate himself even further. No, he brought it, like that is, that's a fucking brother. Yeah, absolutely.

Like regardless of what he was doing in his personal life or any like the cocaine stuff, it's like that he was being a brother. Yeah. Like he was being a brother and being like, I'm gonna put myself out on a limb here. And I want you to investigate this because I think it could have something to do with it.

And they just ignored him. Oh. And then you have Donald Ray Forster sitting there giving that exact same story and saying it is because of cocaine. Right. And a debt that would need to be paid. And it's like, that seems to me to line up. Wow. Wow.

Yeah. It's a very frustrating case. And also if that is the case with the whole cocaine charge, it's like, why did you, like you didn't need to involve his sister in the Bergerchev restaurant. No, it's like fucked up. Deal with it directly.

No, it's really fucked up. That's, but it's scary what money will do to people. And drugs. Yeah. Money and drugs mixed together. Yeah. It's like a bad, bad combination. God. That's so scary. Drug rings, I think are one of the scariest fucking things on the planet. Yeah. Because it's truly ruthless. Yeah. That's why I'm just like, okay. Bye bye. Yeah. When that being said, we hope you keep listening. We hope you keep it weird. But it's so weird that you ran a drug ring cause we're scared, bye.

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