Morbid - Episode 451: The Legend of Lavinia Fisher with RedHanded

Episode Date: April 17, 2023

Some say Lavinia would lure men to the inn and lull them into a false sense of calm, before robbing and killing them, then dumping their bodies in the cellar under Six-Mile House. Others say Lavina would drug the weary travelers with a special tea, before pulling the lever on a trap door and dropping the men into the basement, where they would be robbed and killed by John Fisher. And still others believed Lavina guilty of much darker practices involving the devil. But stories—especially local legends—have a way of shifting and changing over time, exchanging mundane facts for sensational speculations, and in this case, begging the question, who was the real Lavinia Fisher and just what was she guilty of?Thank you Dave White for research assistance.Special thanks to Suruthi and Hannah from RedHanded for joining us today! Listen to RedHanded wherever you get your podcasts, or listen early and ad-free on Amazon Music: https://link.chtbl.com/MorbidRedHandedSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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than the national average savings rate. Apply for your Apple card now in the wallet app on iPhone and start growing your daily cash with savings today. Apple card subject to credit approval. Savings is available to Apple card owners, subject to eligibility requirements. Savings accounts provided by Goldman Sachs Bank USA. Remember FDIC, National Average Savings rate is from FDIC website. Terms apply. Hey, this was a really exciting episode, and I think you guys are really going to dig it. We just wanted to put something out really quick. At the end of the episode, we say that you should head over to Red Handed's Feed to hear an episode with us joining them for an amazing, witchy, awesome British story. And you should. You still should do that.

But just know that they're part of the episode is going to come out next week. So if you're looking for it right away, it won't be there, but it's going to be there next week. We just didn't want anyone being confused. go check it out when it's up there And we hope you dig this episode. We love red handed Hey weirdos. I'm a and I'm Alina and I'm sorriti and I'm huh. Oh And this is more but it's super duper special because we have our friends from Red Hand here today. I'm so excited. We're so excited. We're in, well obviously Boston.

Yeah. We're in about it, didn't you? Yeah, I really did. Like this is, we're on tour at the moment and the amount of times I've gone out on stage and how I'll start the show, but like, in City, what's happening? I don't know if you like to talk about it. Sometimes I'm like, is it Dallas or is it used?

I'm really friendly this morning. I feel like we're here. Yeah, we only have one show left. We've got New York tomorrow and then we're done. Yeah, on, on, on. Trash. Are you ready to be done? I would do this for the rest of my life like so happily. Yeah. I love the road. So, not so much. You're like, I'm going. Oh, no.

You're going to my comfy pair. No, I'm like, look, we've been on the road for 27 days. Oh my god. And I'm like, that's great. Love meeting everybody, excellent cities, having the best time. But I'm also like, I'd quite like to go back Oh my god. And I'm like, that's great. Love meeting everybody, excellent cities, having the best time. But I'm also like, I'd quite like to go back to my bed, to my shower, and to cook myself a meal in my own kitchen. It is not delivered to me in some sort of plastic carton in my bedroom. I was going to say, we both are. Oh my god, do you want to hear the biggest tragedy in the world? So before the show yesterday ordered myself a very delicious sandwich and it was so delicious So that was like I'm actually too stressed to enjoy this right now

So I only ate a bit of it and I was like I'm gonna take it back to the hotel and I'm gonna eat it later You forgot I left it So I'm running on cheese it's right now That's terrible. Well Mikey's on his way with a delicious spread. OK, so once you're done with this recording, we can take a break and we'll have a little spread. I can't off to it. Wait, I'm so pumped.

I have had this morning four pieces of yoghurt covered raisins. No. Four individual yoghurt covered raisins. I had like three bites of my kids left over like waffle that she had already taken like a hundred bites Of but I just quickly was like before I left so that's what I'm running. I'm not can I tell you guys that I had Where goblins right now I don't know I had a Literally did I don't know, I had a full-on fan that worked for us here. I literally did, you did.

You really did. She had avocado toast, a lot of garlic on you know on it. I'm gonna throw you under the bus. And I made a little fruit salad. Yeah. You know the covered raisins, anyone? I have a ball. Because here is strange grumble in the middle of this.

It is one of any of our stomachs. Like totally all of them, maybe, really. But we are actually, we're doing a really fun collab because I think we're like plan on the fact that I don't know if you guys noticed, but they're not from here. It's really hard to tell. They have awesome access that I could listen to literally all day. That's why I love your podcast for every day, but your voices are so soothing. Oh, thank you. No one back home cares, because they all sound like this.

They're like whatever. So it's always fun to come here. See, and we always get the like you of Boston accents, which are not like the, they're not good accents. They're not beautiful. So like even people, they're like, you have some of the worst accents

in the setrizo. I don't think that's true I like the Boston accent. Yes, though. We were at the venue and the lovely old security guard He like walked me back to the hotel. Oh, yeah, no, yeah, they walked us out. That's so sweet. And he had like a proper like I am from Boston I'm not gonna try to do it because I'm terrible at that. That's like my dad's accent. Oh, yeah. Oh, I love it I just like to give my hug that's everyone's dad's accent. Oh, yeah. Oh, I love it. I like to give my hug. That's everyone's dad. Yeah, everybody's Boston dad Is a full boss. I love that. I love that. Oh, yeah, everyone knows a Sully We are stereotype

But we figure what we would do is we're gonna do a case. I've picked a really old case because it's always the most fun I feel like. It's ideal. We're excited. We're excited. You can get fun with these. And this is a super, like, it has a lot of American non-suit. Okay, perfect.

I love American non-suit. Just non-sense. And the thing in itself, so we're gonna be talking about Lavigne Fisher in the six-mile house. We'll never heard of it. I had a good nerve before this. I did. The cool thing about this is it's got, it's very American in and of itself

because it's kind of exaggerated to the point of shenanigans. I know. I just feel like it's solidly American in and of itself just exaggerated to Shenanigans. Sure is. So the actual, so she's known as America's first serial killer, first female serial killer. Oh, okay. But she's not at all. Oh.

Not even a little spoiler. She might not even be a murderer. He's a favorite type of cases. Right, right? So this is like, it has urban legend in it. It has a lot of like the, the south, like before Civil War, south in it, which is easy.

It's like, woof, so there's that. And it's got highway men in it. Oh, highway. Highway robbery. I feel like it really fits the bill here. So this takes place in Charleston, South Carolina, which now is like beautiful and is on Southern Charm. I want to go there so badly.

I want to go there for my badge. Real great. But it's a complicated tale and this definitely begs the question, is this really the story of America's first female serial killer? No. Or is this semi-true series of events exaggerated over time into a living urban legend of some sort? Yes, I'll take either.

My idea of it is it's probably exaggerated over time, but certain aspects are true and they're interesting, because she was a criminal. There was that. So the story of Lavignee Fisher unfolds against the backdrop of the pre-Civil War era. So it's 1815 to 1861-ish. Long ago. So like a little bit ago.

Again, in Charleston, South Carolina, it was during a time of huge economic and social upheaval at this moment. Charleston was among the wealthiest cities of the British colonies and was a hub of imports and exports, and especially in the wake of the American Revolution. So because of this, it became one of the main entry points for several different trades, but also for enslaved people

being forcibly brought into our country. And because it was close to the ocean, it became a base of operations for merchants in tobacco industries, cotton industry, all the huge industries at the time. So now at this time, and this is all to tell you why this all occurred. By the 1810s, the prosperity of Charleston was not as solid as it once was. It had happened to the other cities around too that the Revolution and the War of 1812 had taken a serious financial toll on them. I don't know why. Sorry. It's deciding to take me. Hold on. Siri just popped up and she was like, I don't know what to tell you. I didn't get that. Could you please tell me how do I get Siri to stop? Stop.

I didn't get that. Could you please tell me how do I get Surrey to stop? Stop Surrey! Even that? Okay, that works. Sorry, Surrey just took this over. All right, so this happened in Charleston and the city's leaders worried about a total economic collapse that it was going to be imminent at this time. Because of this, they feared the city would be, quote, reduced to a city of beggars, vagrants, thieves, and cutthroat.

Wow, great. So Paris. Yeah, right. would be, quote, reduced to a city of beggars, vagrants, thieves, and cutthroats. Wow. So Paris. Yeah, right. And they were thinking pirates. Pirates are just going to infiltrate. Right, right, right. That's fun.

Into these ports. And pirates were still a thing, but they weren't the pirates that were probably picturing, like, all high seas adventures and like, social shows. Like, that's what I picture as a pirate Jack Sparrow They were like scary as fuck like like like Captain Phillips. Yeah, like scary and in the early 19th century Merchantships definitely still were fearing attacks from pirates who now are not sailing under the Jolly Roger Scull and bones flag they were sailing under flags of other countries to try to get through.

To make matters worse, in 1819 Charleston was experiencing a big outbreak of yellow fever. And that was requiring every ship that was coming into the city to be quarantined and inspected before even being allowed to dock at the port. So this was causing tons of delays, tons of complications for merchants, people being sent away. And with the city's port dealing with all of these crazy challenges and delays and the merchants getting angry, the wagon trade remained the most viable way of getting goods anywhere you needed to go

in the south. The good old Oregon Trail. The Oregon Trail, which the actual game of the Oregon Trail. I don't know if you guys know it. I've heard of it. It's wherever on Dice of Dissentry. Yes, exactly. And you can buy OX and board the river. So it's some sort of really old and timey

Wild West monopoly. Yeah, pretty much. It's a computer game, and it was like the earliest of all computer games. Oh, so it's not a board game. Kind of screen. And we used to play it when we were little and I'm not really sure why. Like, we thought it was such a cool game to be like,

we didn't have our front trial. A decent tree. Like, rock on. So, what a good fit. If it makes you feel better, guys, when I was a child instead of playing the Oregon Trail, I was playing Planetary Taxi. What is that? Which is an extra question.

An excellent game, I think is what it is. It was like one of those really old school PC games, probably a bit similar to what you're describing, but you were a taxi driver in space. Oh, that's epic. That's way better than our gun trail. And it gets better. So people get in to the back, your potential customers, and they would be like, oh, I always get beaten by Farmer John in the

Fattest Pig of the Year contest. Take me to the planet where my pig will weigh the most. And then you had to figure out which planet had the greatest gravitational pull and then take him there. And if you got it right, he tipped you. See See you were learning things. You were learning just dying from diarrhea. What is more American than not dying of diarrhea? Like wow. You were traveling space. They were, they were, they were, they were, they were trying to keep that, you know,

pioneering American spirit alive and well in the next generation. So I get it. I get it. You're the thick wagon wheels and shit. You went to a general store, you were like, I would like some grain. Yeah. You can't let those old traditions die out. We were having this spirit. Yeah, you know, like a dietic and a dietic and a discentery. And that was always the thing, if you didn't die of dysentery and that was always the thing if you didn't die of dysentery

Then you would go to the river and you were like well, let's all take our lives in our hands You'd get across the river and you were like Yeah, we got yelled at by the actual game. Oh my god. You guys get yelled out from this pronouncing places I did not imagine that. So what is it? Oregon. It's Oregon. Oregon. But I grew up calling it Oregon Trail.

And I returned to Oregon as Oregon when we were little. I think it's a regional dialect. I think it first. Like Oregon. This is something I think about all the time. I'm like, there's a difference between mispronouncing and regional dialect. And saying something in your own accent

Like Americans will call me Hannah, right? Like that's not my name. My name's Hannah. Do you know what I mean? How is it meant to be said in the Middle East in pronunciation? Hannah at least imprenonziate. Hannah. Hannah. Hannah. Hannah. Hannah. Shonk. Sure. Hannah. Guys, we also have like, we're having break down. We're having break down.

We're having break down. We're having break down. We're having break down. But this is the point, like, I don't, like, just say, just have a name. That's fine. At this point, I've just changed my name to Susie Q and on. Which is my American alias, by the way. I've loved that a lot.

Susie Q and on. No, no, no. For when she gets randomly selected in every area. Oh, no. I love that one. She's a cute one on. No, no. When she gets randomly selected in every angle. Oh, no. I love it. Well, that's like Massachusetts, specifically, has the most gnarly names for places. Oh, yeah.

Which we grew up just thinking that was normal, but when people tried to say the names, they're like, what is that? Like, I don't say the name of this state. It is one of the ongoing jokes on Red Hand. And they're like, Can you tell it? Massachusetts.

Yeah, that's how it is. There you go. There we go. I think I can now see it phonetically as it was built out by all of our listeners and I can visually see it, so I say it that way. You're like, at each point, I love it. But that's the problem with most of the cities around here.

It's like phonetically they make literally no sense. I don't know. Like Worcester makes no, it looks like Worcester. That's very English, though. Yeah, very English. We have a Worcester. We've got a Gloucester. We got a Lester, you know?

Yes, we do. And that's where we go. We have a Pivoty brilliant. My favorite tweet will always be, what's the hardest thing you've have had to tell anybody? And people were like, oh, you know, when I had to call my sister and tell her that our father had father passed away and somebody just wrote Worcestershire sauce

Yup, that's been a hot debate on our show was to show sauce. Yeah, cuz that's how you say that's how you say how else would I Worcestershire Warchester War chested up. War chested up. War chested up. We're present. No, we're present. Yeah, truly. That's another very American thing.

We just yell at each other about like saying things for no reason. Like we just can't let each other say things. We've been on the receiving end of that. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely a thing. Anytime you put your voice anywhere, people are bound to just scream at you. Yeah.

It seems like it's so good. Let's do some more of it. Yeah. Yeah, let's keep going. Let's go Yeah, you know, so let's go back to the 1800s, which was such a fun time Let's get to centauried Is there a sheep herd? Yeah, get robbed by a highway man or woman. You'd a pirate. Yeah, meet up. That sounds kind of cool Yeah, you know, if you feel like it's a tell the tale

You could y'all yoho with them. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. That's just why you two. And I do have a rubber coke. You do. A pirate's life for you. Oh my god.

Oh, boy. Stick a lime in it. There you go. There you go. We're all. So, you know, here we go. So, we're in on the wagon trade now, because that's the only way that we can get anywhere.

Otherwise everything sucks. You're going to get robbed by a pirate. You're going to get delayed at port. You know, everything's going to suck. But even though it was now keeping Charleston's economy afloat, it wasn't nearly as efficient as ships were. For one, horses, they get tired and they need to sleep. They get disentrived. They get disent to sleep. They get disentrived.

They get disentrived. They drown in a river if you try to forge it too early, I guess. I don't even know what the reasoning for drowning in the river in a foregone trail was. It was just like a... I think it just caused. It was just a crap shoot.

She didn't know what to swim. Yeah, right. I'm like, who's getting swimming lessons in the Oregon Trail? You know? Oh, if you were in the river, you were gone. Yeah, you're fine. Like, I was like, no one were in the river, you were gone. Yeah, you're fine. Like, no one's around. There was rapids.

Whoops. Yeah. All the wheels went out and you were like, oh, no, there that go. But yeah, that's what happened. So horses need to rest. They need to eat. And while some traveling merchants had no problem sleeping

in their wagon, and they could do that without getting robbed or murdered, the journey was often hundreds of miles and the driver, not to mention any occupants that they had with them, would need to find some kind of shelter at various points along the route, especially for storms, whether all that could stuff. This gave rise to quote stage taverns or inns known just as houses.

Ah, like a public house. Exactly, exactly. And those were along the outskirts of major cities where travelers could stop for a night rest, water their horses, water themselves, you know. A gay shower. There you go, but like the shipping industry, the wagon and stage trade came with a ton of fears. Not about pirates anymore, but now about being robbed or having an entire wagon or coach be stolen right out from under you. So in the early decades of the 19th century, Charleston, South Carolina,

was not so different from the other colonies around. It was always walking a line between the pre-revolution wilderness of the past and the industrial, socially complicated society that was going to be on its way in the latter half of the 19th century, but it was ruled by economic opportunity mixed with intense fear of any kind of change. So things weren't great. It was a very unstable at that moment. So let's get to the legend or urban legend of Levinia Fisher. So Levinia and John Fisher, they were married and

had lived much of their lives in or around Charleston. When they were in their mid to late 20s, the couple operated an inn that was referred to as the Six Mile House, along with what was known, it was on Meeting House Road. So the name Six Mile House was basically the mile marker that it was all over. It would indicate to travelers how far you were from the city. Nice. So other ins head names like five mile house. Four mile house.

No, you could see where that's going. Five mile house. I would want to be like one mile house. Yeah. Like we're number one. That's what I would want to do. Six is like, but these houses offered travelers in merchants place to stop and rest, get food, hey, but these houses offered travelers and merchants a place to stop and

rest, get food, water, and overnight stay, and as they traveled in Charleston to sell their goods or as they traveled out, that's where they would stop along this way. So travelers leaving the city would be as John Ralphio and Parks and Recreation would say, flush with cash. And this made them pretty sick right. You can never let you know. But this made them very easy prey for highway men or in this case highway women. So the legend has it that Levinia would lure and guess with her

seductive wilds. I mean her name's Levinia, she must be kind of hot. It is a hot-go name. Right, Levinia, I'm like you have to be good-looking. You do. I feel like she was. Yeah, hopefully. Not only would she lure them in with her womanly wilds, but then she would double down and cook them a home cooked meal.

And the boy that any man's heart, you know. And then she would sedate them with warm tea. Oh my god. I mean, I kind of fancy that. Fortunately, that warm tea was poison. Ah. There's always a catch. Yeah. No one's a 10 out of 10. Yeah, you can't dance with both hands. This is something we're gonna have. We're not gonna cough like two. She's like, she still sounds great to be honest, but she's a ten, but she won't poison you. Take her to leave it, boys.

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John would sneak into the room, he would rob them, and he would murder them. But then it said that he, quote, butchered them and disposed of their bodies in their cellar. Oh, tactile. Very bloody benders. Thank you, I bring them out that show. You're welcome.

In the next year, I'll grab that one. OK. But there are some variations in this story, though. Another slight variation is that once they were definitely unconscious, Lavigne would open a trap door beneath the victim, and they would drop into the basement, which I like better. Lavigne, sweetie, no! That's so good!

That's so cool! And that's where they would be ultimately murdered. And in some versions, they even say that beneath that trap door, Lavigne herself, which I'm like, whoa, Lavinea, had position spikes in the bottom of a pit, which impaled the victims as they landed. Now she should mistrunch bowl. Yeah, I'm saying it. That's how the ultimate choky, don't you?

Yeah. And they're already dead when they get spiked. Yeah, so it's just for the fundament. Just for the fundament. Just so she can like, she is. Which is very bloody vendors, because we're going to get into them and they did do that shit just for the point. Just so she can like, which is very bloody vendors, because we're gonna get into them, and they did do that shit just for the fun of it. Yeah. So, I wonder if that got taint,

like a little bit of bloody vendors, got mixed in with the story. We do that a lot. But John and Lavigneur were said to have, quote, a great number of skeletons found in the cellar of Six Mile House. Later, it was said that they had a cellar full of human bones.

So, it's getting bigger, bigger as we go. It's like maybe one, and then it's like a whole last cellar. I love it. It starts big. It just gets bigger. It's like, maybe she just like, a great many. And it's like, no, she was impaling them on spikes in their kitchen. It's like, duh. It's just someone telling a story in one of those houses. And they're like, I'm not getting the reaction I need.

Nobody cares. There was spikes. Listen up. It impaled right under our feet. Like that, I wouldn't have known. And she was a stone-cold hotty. And so, and her name's Levine. She's going to make a tea.

She's going to cook you dinner. So you choose whether you're coming in. But like we just mentioned a bunch of times, it is very reminiscent of the bloody vendors. They were, we actually covered the bloody vendors long time. I'm actually going to redo that one. Yeah. That's one of those that I remember doing in our living rooms. Yeah. So there's an early one. We have a few of those. Yeah. We know the feeling well. Yeah. I just end up being like, boop, gonna take that one back and redo that that better. Yeah. I'm pretty, it's a gnarly story and I think we could definitely, I think it was only like an hour long episode maybe that we did on it.

Yeah, if not. And I think this could be like several episodes of the Blondie Bender's now. I'm like, what was I doing? Blondie Bender's take two. Yeah. They were an American family of murderers, like an actual family. Wow. Which is straight up serial killers.

Wow. Like kids and all. Yeah. And kids and all. And it's real. And it's real. I've counted this, but we've never covered it. But it kind of reminds me of like, there's lots of fake stories like that in the UK. There's the Sony Bean clan. Oh my god.

That sounds familiar, yeah. Yeah. Scotland, they were kind of the inspiration for like the Hills Have Eyes, the Star. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they were like meant to be in Scotland, this family of like cannibalistic, insesstuous people, living in these caves, like attacking people

that walk past them and cannibalizing them, the kids were there, all sorts of grizzly stuff. If you look it up, it is dark. And then you realise actually it was just an anti-Scottish English propaganda? Yeah. Are you serious? Oh no!

I just think Scottish people live in in caves. Like they're disgusting over there. They're like, they are having sex with each other and they will eat you. Absolutely true. Don't look further into it. Just lose what I'm saying. Avoid the caves. No, we definitely have a few of those like that you know are fake that are like this old

family of cannibals. You know, but the bloody vendors, they were real. They really did it. And it was in the early 1870s. And they had, it was in Kansas. And they had, which like, it kind of fits like that time in Kansas. Like, yeah, like at that time, like frontier family, we're going to murder people.

Like everyone was probably mad there at the 1870. But they had like a bed in breakfast, their quotations, that they would lure people into and then brutally murder them. And they had a trap door that led into their cellar. And they would position the victim sitting over the trap door. And then I think it was like, it really is reminiscent of it because the wife would like kind of distract whoever the victim was. And then the husband or one of the sons

would come up behind them, slit their throat or hit them on the head with a hammer and then boom, they would go on into the trap door. Oh wow. And often they would be robbed of whatever they had on them that was usually because they would lure like wealthy people in that were like traveling through. But sometimes they would just do it for the thrill of it. Like they would not get a wealthy person they were like well we're just bored.

What is there to do in Kansas in the 1870s? It's dusty. I was literally thinking that. There's tornadoes. Yeah, Kansas. There was a dust ball. Yeah, it was not the dust ball. Totally. Why not? We're educated. It's a bowl of dust. So no, it's not. We know what happened. But they were real. They were able to confirm all the deaths. They were able, like, people who did escape the bloody vendors with their lives, wherever to be like, oh, yeah, they tried to hit me in the head with a hammer. And I saw a trap door. Like, they were able to be like, yeah, that's

literally nice. So this definitely has a little bit of that infused in it and since it's around the 1800s it's like I think maybe a kind of layered on top of each other and because Levinia is a woman and there was a woman in the bloody vendors I think they were like another one. Redoosh. I can't just have one. But in early tellings of this story, John and Lavigne Fischer are described as quote, pleasing in appearance. Okay. He got a baby.

He got a baby. No, John and Lavigne. Yeah. I felt like they were in it couple. For sure. Yeah. And they knew how to give the weary traveler such a welcome as made him feel the inn was more like a home

than a public resort. No, it wasn't the trap door. That was a little homies. I think it was the spikes that you had on. It feels like home. It's at the ambiance of all. It was the lovely rug over the door and the spikes. It was a piece of home. But the fishers weren't only praised for their resort,

their loveliness, but also for their food, which was apparently described as excellent fare for men and beasts. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me.

So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me.

So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. So that's all for me. But this isn't enough. But later, however, the entire area around Six Mile House is described as a haven for, quote,

gangs of white desparados who occupied certain houses and infested the roads leading to the city. White desparado. Let's be sure. I know. But it is said that travelers passed these houses with fear and trembling. Oh no. Because it was just bad guys.

I hate that. And the more dreaded than any of the other of these haunts was known as Six Mile House, occupied by John Fisher and Levinia. So the legend tells listeners that the robberies and missing travelers went on for more than a year until finally the bandits were located in the neighborhood of five and six mile houses then traced to the houses themselves and the situation came to head when a young man had less and coldness. Oh, no. Oh, excuse me. How you meant to tell if he's a good guy or a bad guy? If you are had less and coldness. Exactly. He's like a hot and Charleston though. I know it is.

Like it. Yeah. Almost as hot as in this room. So you have to. But that's it. It's like if I saw him hatless and coatless, I just be like, well it's warm. Yeah. Yeah. And they were like, you are either a fake a baron. You are in desperate. I don't know. There's nothing in between. And he was riding into town, at least in Colis. Oh, dear, he is. Right? How dear he?

And he was frantically seeking the sheriff. So the man told authorities that he had been attacked. Oh, no. And that those who had set upon him, he said, were no less persons than the man and woman who kept six mile house. I don't know if you remember, but that is John and Levin. I know.

I like the story. I feel like this is just a cover up because he's turned up drastically underdressed to this time. And he's like, I was robbed. I have to explain this. So the man says he claims that he had seen the fishers on the previous night going through his belongings. And he had heard them make mention

of having to attend to him the following morning. So he got out of there, which I think was a little hasty, because they do run a bed of breakfast. So if they were like, we should have done to our guest tomorrow. He's like, they're gonna murder me. I'm like, he caught a vibe. But it's either a really good thing

or a really bad thing. I know, maybe he just has a better intuition than I do. I know, trust you. I got it. They're going to give me a continental breakfast. I know, if there's a promise of breakfast, you're going to stick around. Yeah, I'm not leaving. So I'm going to fight through it if there's breakfast.

We spent all day yesterday telling people to trust their gun on the episode today. Yeah, I don't know about that. But today I'm like, I said it's there's breakfast. It's not continental, though. That's not good enough.'m like, accepted. There's breakfast. No continental though. That's not good enough. It's really not breakfast. It's not good. It's not breakfast.

It's not breakfast. It's not breakfast. It's not breakfast. It's not breakfast. It's not breakfast. It's not breakfast. It's not breakfast. It's not breakfast.

It's not breakfast. It's not breakfast. It's not breakfast. It's not breakfast. It's not breakfast. It's not breakfast. It's not breakfast. It's not breakfast. It's not breakfast. It's not breakfast. It's not breakfast. It's not breakfast. delightful sitting in bed. Yeah right before you die. Yeah that's all I needed into the

job. That's all that I need. So the sheriff went to six mile house that day and he drove the band of robbers out including John and Livinia Fisher and he left a man on site to ensure that these bandits did not return. So he was just like get out of your own house and this guy was going to stay in room and make sure that you don't. And when they did the man went for the law again, because they came back. They were like, you left one guy. I'm going to leave many people.

And John Fischer. You left one guy. We're coming back in. So he went back to the sheriff again, who at this time finally apprehended the entire gang and confiscated 10 muskets, some pistols, knives, and a large canister of powder from the house. A large canister of powder? Was it powdered sugar for pancakes?

No, that's the question. I don't think so. They don't specify. They don't go in the tea. That was good. That was good. So the fishers were found guilty of highway robbery and they were sentenced to hang. This escalated so quickly. It did.

I feel like there was a lot of build up to this that the sheriff wasn't taking any notice of anything that was going on at Six Mile House and then suddenly they're like, we need to hang them. Yeah, suddenly that's another part of this that is very, especially old-timey American, which was just like, no, you should die. Well, it's just like even just being a hangman

a highway member was a hangable affair yeah the in where I went to school there's like a little like a tiny little pyramid in the middle of the field and it marks the the last highway meant to ever be hanged yeah it's an hamster oh that's so. The only reason to go down was because there's an echo slash there. Where it was voted Britain's ugliest town. Oh, but there is a nice owner. But there is a very good water park. Yes, exactly.

A nice flash. So let's go, guys. Let's go. And I'll see the historical of it all. I don't know for the artwork. I just want to see that little pyramid. It's like, it's like this big and it's just in the middle of a field. Oh my God, so wide.

That is cool. Those kind of things are always crazy to me. Like in Salem, we have all those little memorials and they're always like these small little things that are like this gnarly thing happening here. Yeah, and that's all you have to let. No, it's true, but we're wild. We're full of them as you guys must be in Boston because like we've been going around and we're like, it's like the first place it feels like really really historic

oh we've been as soon as the circle as fuck and I used to work where I used to work in London it was like in a really boring part used to work missing Catherine's dog but I'd get off the tube and walk to my office and it was past like um was it Tower of London and there's just a sign on my way to work that'd be like this is where Amberlin was headed. Oh my god. And then all these tourists just take the pictures of it and I'm like, I'm just trying to walk with my friends. Excuse me. Well this is where Amberlin was headed. That is wild. They also have, I don't know how familiar you are with the cinematic masterpiece, Pocohontus 2. Um, actually a weirdly pretty familiar. I heard it's love.

So, you know, like when they go to the time they go through Trace's Gate, they're on the little boat. So like Trace's Gate is still there. So you just walk right past it and it's just the gate on the Thames and it's just as Trace's Gate about there. Oh my god. I think that's why I'm to London. I think I just take you on a walk into. It's on a bucket list the Thames and it just as straight as gate about it. Oh my god. I think I should come to London. I think I should take you on a walking tour.

It's on the bucket list. I'm dying. Come on. We will do this in a hot studio there as well. I will take you on a walking tour. We did a five-parter on Jack the Ripper. And I was like entrenched and it was like I have to go. She's dying.

You got a white child. I bought East London. Yeah, we're East London girls. Yes, we got a coat. OK, we'll talk London girls. Oh, yeah, we got to go. Okay, we'll talk about this. We got to do it. We're going to do it. We're going to do it.

I'm solving that case. Let's go. I'm telling you, that's my lifelong ambition. It's one of the rules, right? It means to buy us from ghosts to get a solving. It is hot in here. Oh, God. What have I done?

So yeah, the fishers were found guilty of highway robbery. They were sentenced to hang. They sat in their cells for nearly a year, waiting on a pardon for their execution. And apparently when John was visited by a local priest, he was very contrite. He wanted his soul to be saved. But Lavigne, she had no interest in salvation.

She really only cared about being pardoned. It never came. Oh no. When the day finally came, John begged his wife to make peace with her God, but she absolutely refused to not one word of religious instruction would she listen. That's like kind of badass. Especially bad men. I feel like especially back then. Yeah, straight up rebellion. Yeah. Now when their execution finally arrived, apparently, Lavinia had to be dragged from herself

while she shrieked and raved, like, quote, one insane. Which is like, what is she insane? Or was she just about to be hanged? Yeah, you just said. I don't know. I might shriek as well. Yeah, me, the, I don't think a lot of us could be like stoic in that moment. But some say Lavinia and her husband were dressed in white outfits as they made their way to the gallows, like matching white outfits.

While other variations insist that Lavinia was wearing her wedding dress. Oh, no, she wasn't. No, she was not. And when she finally reached the gallows, Lavinia blurted out profanities from the gallows, which I think is I love us And before famously shouting if you leave if you have a message you want to send to hell give it to me You just want like a guitar She's going on tour after this. She is. But some say, LaVinne even cheated the hangman at one moment

by jumping from the platform before being settled back into position just above her own trap door and then hanged with John. So to this day, it said that LaVinne's ghost taunts the grounds that once held the old city jail, where she was held for nearly a year before her execution. Others say she haunts Charleston's Unitarian Cemetery. And whatever the case, her spirit is believed to still quote

Rome and haunt the last area she knew and where she felt most unsettled in her life. So that's the story. But here's the real story of what happens. Oh, she was a nice lady. Lavinia was a schoolteacher. She retired at the age of 30. No, I think she was at 30. Yeah, she was a back then. She was like, oh, yeah, that's true.

So not a lot is really known about the fissures before there are arrests and actuality, but for all intents and purposes, their story begins in the winter of 1819. In response to the rise in highwaymen robbing, people, you know, that was happening all the damn time, there were lynch mobs that were formed. And they were basically the one bringing justice outside of the law to these random highwaymen. Of course, we know this was often a legit active terrorism masked as justice. Yeah. So frustrated by the ongoing attacks on travelers and merchants on Meeting House Road,

on February 16, 1819, a heavily armed mob assembled and rode from Charleston in the direction of Five Mile House. Oh, damn. I know. They had received word that a gang of thieves who was responsible for a string of highway robberies near Ashley Ferry had holed up at one of the houses and they were determined to smoke them out and bring them to justice. According to author Bruce Orr, which we will make sure we give a little reference in the show notes for his book, the

mob allegedly had permission from the owners of several small houses in the area to proceed as they saw fit. Which I don't know if I believe that. I'm going to say, I don't doubt that. They're like, they said it was fine if we murdered these people. They said to do whatever we wanted while we're here. That's how said it was fine if we lit this one on fire. So talk to someone else. I don't know now among the many obvious problems with mob justice is that Lynch mobs tend to

lack information and objectivity This is a really I have really thought out opinion Sighted sources I mean, I have really thought out opinions. We have cited sources of what happened. Instead, they really only operate on reactionary emotions and just collective outrage. You don't do it. That's usually the case.

No one's taking a step back and really thinking in these cases. So in the case of the attacks along Meeting House Road, none of the victims who reported being attacked or robbed could actually identify any of their attackers. So when the mob arrived at five mile house, they had no idea who they were looking for. They were just going in there being like,

I guess we just take everyone in the house. It's probably good to get swept up before you know what's happening. Yeah, it's good to act first and then go, oops, later. You don't want to be the last person joining the mob. Yeah, it just looks like you jumped on the bandwagon. Precisely. They're working off, though, like mantra of like, you ask for forgiveness, not permission. So like, we'll just later, we'll do it.

It's fun. Like, a favor kind of people. You know, yeah, I'm not asking. So nevertheless, when they entered the inn, the mob found a small group of individuals assembled inside, and regardless of whether they were the actual aggressors or robbers, the group was instructed to grab whatever personal belongings they had near them and get the hell out of the house immediately.

Likely pretty confused, yes, startled by the appearance of a giant violent mob at their house. The group of five mile house protested a little bit and they resisted a little bit because they were like what the fuck is happening right now? So the mob was like okay and they just lit the building on fire. Oh shit they're like we have your chance. Burn to the ground. It's a very small period of time. People got out but they burnt it to the ground with people in it. Is this one Livinius house House? No, this is next to Livinius House. Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay. Down the way.

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And Ash, and we're taking you back to the days before streaming services. Whoa! You know when you would come home from high school and it was only a few hours until that TV show, everyone was watching was about to come on. Well, in 1999, that show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In our podcast with Wondery, the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer, we take it back to 1999.

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Darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn,arn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn,arn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn,arn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn, darn,arn, darn,arn darn, darn, d worked really well. Because now that house is gone out. Everybody got out.

But my house is right down here. So they were like, all right. So they moved a little further up the road, hoping to dull out some justice to six mile house as well. Here we go. So the proprietors of six mile house and the visitors of six mile house, actually, they actually listened and complied.

You would. I'm wondering if they saw, like, I don't know, the smoke or I've been for five miles. Maybe smelled a little something. Or maybe it was the actual lynch mob that was at their door that they were like we should leave. Combination plato. No figure, yeah, you know, there you go. This is what this was smart. They took context clues. They put the problem solving and they were like this is going gonna be a bad leave for us, we should leave. So they got out, either way, they left.

And to make sure they didn't return, they did that old standby when they just leave one guy standing at the door to keep the entire house out. The entire Lynch mob too. Yeah, exactly. So this is what? It's what in the past.

It has, obviously. And it works for six mile house. So they left a guy named David Ross at six mile house And they said don't let them back in I don't know if I trust him. I don't know about David Ross No, I'm bad for David Ross. I don't know if I would pick like David No, I feel like I could have a power David Ross. I don't know what name I would choose I've been there names a lot while we've been talking about this. I feel like they're a hot guy name Yeah, there are like strong names.

What's the hottest hot guy name if it's not John? I was gonna say because you're about a partial to a John. I was about to say, yeah. I'll see you guys at this one out. Andrew personally. Andrew was a great name, you know. I'm gonna go about it. You know, I'm gonna go buy a suit. You know what Drew is all I don't know. Mary won a Doctor Award. Drew, don't know, never got it. But let's see. Harkai names. Harkai names. I don't know.

Most guys are not the hearts. No. I don't know. I've always thought maybe it's because of the little mermaid. Is there a name Eric? Eric? Are you kidding? Eric, quite hard. Eric, is there a name. I know he's such a prick in hindsight.

What was I like on this is oh John. John. John. John. And then John roll. There you go. She I love princess in the frog girly and the vein. Neveen. Neveen is out. You can have that. But I don't know. But I don't know. Who's the hottest Disney Prince? Obviously, General Shang. Oh, yes. Oh, there we go. There we go. There we go. Here's the conversation.

It's a hot, it's all boy name. Yes. Shaggy. Shaggy. We've been yelling out. We've cracked the code. We do. And actually, while we're on tour, people ask us, you know, what are your like pre-precio

rituals? Our only pre-show ritual, apart from watching 90 day fiancee in our dressing rooms, is listening to Mulan, our make-a-man out of you. Oh, my God, what a stage. Red of all, you guys can have it. I wish we could back in, wow. Because that'll get you fired up.

Oh yeah, that's, we save it for occasions where we need to get especially hyped. Oh yeah, there you go. That's genius. I came to love one of my kids especially. One of my twins is obsessed with Mulan. Thanks to me. And it is thanks to us.

It's the best favorite movie. It's my favorite Disney movie. Love that song. And when she was like two, she used to be like, let's get down to business. And I'm like, hell yeah, to come on. Let's go. You get him. Yeah.

Then it gets like super like not feminist at all. Singing to them, like, will we come man out of you? And I'm like, women, did they give us daughters? And like, yeah, they did. They did. They did daughters. Who gives a fuck what you ask for? You know, why did you do that while you sing it?

Yeah, she's fighting it. Tell her fighting it. She's fighting it. That's right. That me the guy I would leave. I don't know why I know I know you mean I know you mean right if there was a John around I believe John stay over there So it's like other any doctors are there any John's head And there I feel like is like a to solid name a little solid a Phil but Philip William William William William William William William A little solid. Not fill, but fill up. Fill up. William. William. William.

William. William. William. Yep. Harry. Old time. Never trust a Harry. We don't trust a Harry anymore.

Okay. We don't trust a Harry. Except Harry style. Oh, always Harry style. Or even him. Oh no. I was like, do we trust Harry style? I feel like that's a story for a later time.

After Don't worry, darling. It's so cool. It was the same amount. Oh, great. I think the same was John. Jack, so kind of. Yeah, don't trust him. Yeah, so there's that.

Well, those are names. Well, they should have left Shang, and instead they left David. And they told him, you let us know if anyone returns. Which, this was kind of my favorite thing because it's like instruct us let us know if anyone returns. Which this was kind of my favorite thing because it's like instruct us, alert us if somebody returns. And it's like, they didn't have like a cell phone

or a walkie-talkie. So it's like jump on your horse and ride like miles into town to be like, hey, they're there. Let us know. I was thinking that. I don't think that's gonna help. But sometime later, David Ross returned to Charleston pretty frantically because he was like, shit, I have to alert you.

He was asking for the sheriff. And in his sworn testimony later, Ross said he was the one that was hatless and co-less. That was not him. Immediate red flag. I'm saying. He said that shortly after 9 p.m., a man named William Hayward, one of the men who'd been forced out of six mile house by the Bob, he had returned to the inn

and he had quote, cursed him, collared him violently and pushed him out. How dare he? So William, but like how dare he? Because William's like, this is my fucking house. Like get out. So dare he. So he came in and he collared that guy on.

He was like, David, get out of here. Okay. I'm coming back in my house. So we did. And then he slammed the door in his face. He was very careful to say out of here. Okay. I'm coming back in my house. So we did. And then he slammed the door in his face. He was very careful to say that. That's his door.

He slammed the door in his face. Yeah. So when David Ross went back into the house, and I love this because he's like, David goes into the house that doesn't belong to him that he was just thrown out of. He goes back in and he asks Hayward, hey, can I get a couple of my things that I had here? No, not before I leave. And Hayward, apparently, put his hands into his bosom and said,

you damned infernal rascal. If you leave your hand on anything, I will blow your brains out. I am only going to call people damned infernal rascals. But you have to touch that bosom as you said. No, I don't know about that. I mean, that's right, you have to put your hand in the bosom, then. In the bosom.

I don't know about that. Not just on. In the tube. In the bosom. Oh, my God. How do you become one with someone's bosom in that bosom? Full send. But we'll find out when you eventually do it.

When you eventually do it. I'll let you guys know that you are going to do it. But after being rebuffed by Hayward the second time, Ross was surprised to find that more of the people from Six Mile House were now returning and were like, we're just going to come back into our house. Specifically, John and Livinia Fisher, as well as two other men that Ross didn't recognize. So Ross claimed that at that point, Livinia Fisher, quote, Lavignee herself, laid violent hands upon him. She said catch these hands.

She said catch these hands. They're coming for your business. She came for his business. She choked him and then pushed his head through a glass window. Shit. Lavignee? She's got no choice.

She's not fuck around. She's no choice. She's like, that's what happened no chill. She's not fuck around. She's no chill. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around.

She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around.

She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around.

She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. She's not fuck around. How's Garen continued beating Ross with their fists and with loaded whips? Which I know you'd idea what a loaded whip was because a whip it's I'm like what I looked it up and apparently loaded whips were Shot loaded and they it would make them heavier and like more dangerous So one end of the whip was it was essentially like putting rocks in a sock and beating someone with it But like with a whip I see, it's a lot of damage. I was trying to think of some sort of joke, like with loaded potato skins, but then I just got hungry because I've only had three raisins. Oh, no.

Now that you said potato skins, I'm like, should we eat them? Mediterranean pop up. We were potato skins. Yeah, no, I want potatoes. I do too. I'm gonna like those later. Oh, now I'm thinking of food.

I just thought of Taco Bell real quick. Oh, I'm moving on, moving on. Thought about it, passing spot. It was only after they had beaten the crap out of David Ross with their hands and with loaded whips and that Levinia had choked him and thrown him through a click on the window. It was only after this that he was able to get through

that window and just take a run into the woods. That man was running for his life. He fucked around and he found out. But he wasn't even done being fucked around with. Oh. Because he ran into the woods. He reached the cover of the tree line and they started firing guns at him on the tree line.

And it still found out. And it still found out. Like the other one was like the urban line. This is the real thing. So he managed to make it back to a main road. It was crossing Friches Bridge. I don't know what that is, but I keep thinking of like righteous. Yeah. Friches Bridge. Apparently it was just outside of Proper Charleston. And that's when he spotted the entire gang pursuing him still. And Lavignea shouted,

you damned infernal rascal. Yeah. If ever I catch you, I will give you a hundred lashes. I love her a lot. Which also makes me think I'm like, was Lavignea the one with the loaded whip? Yes. It sounds like him.

Yeah, I mean, maybe six mile house with some sort of BDSM dungeons. I don't know. I'm like, what's going on in there? Mm. Not to think she's wild. Lavignea, right. That's what the spikes are for. Not to think she's wild in her. Yeah, right. That's what the Spice is for.

Yeah, but just consent and vol. Yeah, but maybe it is. Maybe this is all just some really elaborate role play situation between Levinia and our, what's his name, the running away, my name is David. David, David. I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. And somebody saw it all happening. Yeah. And then wrote a really loaded piece about how she was some sort of highway movement. Yeah. But actually she was just running some sort of innocent PDF stuff. Yeah. Dungeon from St. Mark's. She was just like a really professional dominatrious.

And she stood up to the plot line. Hell yeah. She was like, you didn't say a safe word. And he's running away because he wants it to end, but he can't remember the safe word. He can't. The safe word is shang. He's a hard one to remember. She's just trying to make a move.

She's trying to make a move. She's trying to make a move. She's trying to make a move. She's trying to make a move. She's trying to make a move. She's trying to make a move. She's trying to make a move. She's trying to make a move.

She's trying to make a move. She's trying to make a move. She's trying to make a move. She's trying to make a move. She's trying to make a move. She's trying to make a move. She's trying to make a move. She's trying to makenal asshole, which doesn't have the same heat. No, like you're an asshole. Doesn't pack the same punch. Yeah.

But yeah, she's gonna give him 100 lashes if he doesn't, or if she catches him. But the group must have kind of given up the chase at some point she didn't catch him because Ross managed to make it safely back into Charleston that evening to cry in front of the sheriff and be like, why did you leave me in front of that house? What a baby.

Meanwhile, it was David. You left David. When he was like, how's your own doing? You know, David. You know, David. So, you want to be a merchant by the name of John Peoples. Which I love that thing. Fun.

Peoples. He was headed out of the city, if I just wanted to black. Okay. Towards Meeting House Road. And when he reached Six Mile House, John Peoples stopped at the end. This was after all of this. It was

around 11 p.m. and he was just going to rest and water his horse. So, you know, as one does. So once he stopped at the end, he alleged that he and his young companion, who was a young boy, I don't know if it was a son or what they don't say, they were attacked and robbed by multiple people at six mile house. In his official affidavit, he claims that as he was arguing with his companion over who would get the water bucket for the horses, nine or ten persons among them, a tall, stout woman came out of the same house. I was loving it. They were armed with clubs, guns, and pistols, and immediately made a violent assault on them.

So according to people, the woman among them was the most vicious of all of them. That's love and hate. It was active in beating him, cutting him over the head and eyes with a stick. Like, it's a calm down living. Well, the video is, she needs to talk to someone. She does. She's like, this is what you paid for.

I don't know what you want. What? It's hard to say the whole thing. It's a safe word. But nobody can remember Shanghai. But John Peoples and his companion were eventually able to escape the gang and made their way back to the road. I love that they were just attacked while they were watering their horse and they're like,

ah, they just like brought it away. Let's hear it back then. We think we have a bad mouth. Oh, try to water your horse these days. Just stop and end it in. But although he wasn't aware of it in that moment, John Peoples was pursued by two of the men in the gang to the road. He just didn't know it.

And these two men rode up on him and the boy who was with him. And they brandished pistols and demanded that they hand over any money or valuables that they had. After searching the man and the boy, the bandits took his pocketbook and it contained roughly $40, which is a pretty good haul back then, and turned back in the direction of six-mile house. So meanwhile, John Peoples and this boy raced back to Charleston and immediately reported the attack to authorities. Although he couldn't positively identify each member of the gang right then and there, John People's quote had just caused to believe that among them was William Hayward, John Fisher

and his wife, Livinia Fisher, another man named Joseph Roberts and another man named John Andrews. Lots of John's, lots of Joseph's. It's what we like to name. So author Bruce, Bruce, Bruce or points out that among the more interesting aspects of the John People's affidavit is that the document looks like it was written in the handwriting of a lot of different people. So that's weird. And then various different points in the affidavit, his name is spelled people's like PEOP

LES and people's P-E-E-P-L-E-S. I wonder why. So people think this means one, at least another person was involved in writing that description of events, but they're not sure why. And it's, but it's also possible when you really think of like, you know, history and reality in that time, he might have not had an ability to read and write, so they might have had to have somebody documenting his report. True.

True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True.

True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. True. Fischer, Livinia Fischer, William Hayward, Joseph Roberts, William Andrews, Seth Young. Which I didn't see as Seth in the video.

No, I never saw that. I never saw that comment. No, it's like when you watch Game of Thrones and you're just like, why is he called Jamie? Thank you. Why is he called Rob? Rob. It's Rob. Tyrion.

Rob. Tyrion, Rob. Cersei. You know, like, he's called Jamie. And they're as. Yup. And it's like, no, just Rob. I do love Rob, though. Yeah.

It's my favorite. So, actually, you know what, fuck John. Yeah, fuck John. Fuck John. Right, thank you. I don't get enough of that. I'm a rob girl. Yeah, I mean, little hot-headed.

I can't let it. Think about it. Think about what you're doing, Rob. We really loved it. Yeah, such a rob. Such a rob. This is Robby. Rob.

The red wedding was like a real dark moment. It was a dark moment. It was a dark moment. That's not up to ourselves again. It was a dark moment. That was right. When he says mother, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Go there, go there, we said it.

I just like the sun, man. And it's the way he says it. And if anyone's complaining about spoilers, that shows like 10 years old. Yeah, shut down. Stop it. And all I said was he said mother. Okay. He did love his mom. So we got a set Which isn't true because we got like John William Joseph William James John James Okay, there is I don't think Seth does not show up again I don't think so for one is like a poor one out for him.

So with sworn affidavits from two victims and witnesses, Sheriff Cleary quickly assembled a huge posse of police officers and vigilantes on February 19, 1819. That's when the group headed out to Six Mile House. When they arrived at the end, they surrounded the place, demanded everyone's surrender immediately. And that's when they basically were able to search Six Mile House, and they found that large storage of weapons and powders, so that was all true. So the gang definitely had the means to resist them, but I don't know why they decided not to. I don't know if it was they decided it was too big of a posseed overwhelm. Or John Fisher, there is one like set of tales. And I kind of believe it because I feel like John Fisher was like a good husband.

Yeah, he's a John. He's a John. You know, we love a John. We do. And John Fisher apparently said that he opted to surrender rather than risk injury or death to his wife. Oh, I believe that. So he did that for Levinia, which in the power couple that is Jonathan Levinia, it was that is right. Believable. Whatever the reason was, they were arrested without a fight. And the sheriff successfully did get John and Levinia.

They also got James McElroy. They did get Seth Young, but I don't know if he ever comes up again. And they got somebody James Howard. So evidence taken from the home, and this does come back so don't worry, I'm not just randomly saying it, was a large cow hide,

but they didn't own any cows. So they were like, when the house trumps down. Yeah, it was like a recent cow hide. And they were like, what's this about? So by the time the gang members were being loaded into the wagon, the scene had attracted a big crowd obviously because I always love that in these old time cases where it's like this huge crime scene and all these people are just walking through it. They're like, whoa, look at that blood.

It's like, ooh, that's not. Wow, it's just like, I wish you had just seen a Lena act that out of her life today. Like they're all just like taking pieces of like skull fragments off the floor. I'm like, wow, this was great. That was Sunday. Thanks for having us. Yeah, just walking through it. So a man named Steven LaCost, who was a neighbor of six mile house, went in there.

And he saw this cow hide. And he said, Motherfucker, that's my cow. Oh no. And my cow had gone missing. Oh no. So man, it's stolen this man's cow That's for sure I was like damn

Big business I'm saying justice for Steven not cool that the whole system So rather than leaving the scene as it was or coming back later to search it more, they just set it on fire. Because... Easy. What else are you gonna do? Well, not seem to be working well for them. So it was burned to the ground and a few days after their arrest or a somewhat more thorough search of the grounds around the area was made, which I loved that they burned the place down and they were like, we should go back there and look to see if there's any evidence.

It's really clear out all the clots about it. It was really clear. We made it easier. We made it sanitary. And at least two bodies were indeed found buried near the house. Like right on the property. One was the body of a male who'd been shot. And the other was the skeletal remains of a woman

who'd been buried in an unmarked grave at least two years earlier. To leave them were ever identified. Oh, wow. Oh, good. There was at least two there. And the members of the Six Mile House gang were taken to the city jail, which was apparently only a small step up from like medieval dungeons. There was no running water, there was no bed or toilet. Instead, there was a pile of wood chips where they were like, that's your bed and your toilet. Oh,. So how fun with that.

And apparently if you were a violent offender you were just shackled to a steel ring that was in the middle of the floor. And if you stepped down a line you got the shit kicked out of you. So that's fun. And they said that it was also not unusual for a corpse to reach an advanced state of decomposition before being removed from a cell. So you don't want to go any sooner. you don't want to go to the city jail. So at the time of John and Lavigne is arrest,

South Carolina still operated under a colonial justice system. So this system was based on a mix of biblical edicts and laws imposed by the British Crown. No thanks. Thanks a lot. So as such, the crimes of which the gang were accused, highway robbery, were considered a capital offense,

and that made all members eligible for the death penalty. So by February 22nd, the sheriff had also arrested gang member James Sterrett, which would bring the total arrested to seven. Some more arrests would come later. By the end of the week, I think there was about nine people that were arrested from that house. Oh, wow.

That were in the gang. And once they'd all been rounded up, they were all brought before John Peoples. And he identified them all as the ones who violently attacked them and robbed them. Imagine that. Hi, I'm Lindsay Graham, the host of Wondries Podcast American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history, presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our newest series, we look at the Kids for Cash Scandal, a story about corruption inside America's system of juvenile justice.

In Northeastern Pennsylvania, residents had begun noticing an alarming trend. Children were being sent away to jail in high numbers, and often for committing only minor offenses. The FBI began looking at two local judges, and when the full picture emerged, it made national headlines. The judges were earning a fortune, carrying out a brazen criminal scheme, one that would shatter the lives of countless children and force a heated debate about punishment, an America's criminal justice system. Follow American scandal wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music

or Wonder App. So looking at their previous crimes that they've been punished for, both John and Levinia had previously been arrested for theft, which at least for John, he had received 30 lashes for it. James Starrott had also been convicted of theft on one occasion and he had been branded as his punishment. And Joseph Roberts had had a piece of his ear chopped off. That'll teach you. Or theft as well.

And so not totally convinces people were just taking part in some elaborate BDSM situation. They all loved it. I just sounded more and more like a gay, really, yes. To be quite honest. On March 23, 1819, John and Levinia, as well as William Hayward and Joseph Roberts were brought before Judge Hall Bay and they were going to determine whether there was enough evidence to convict them.

At least of assaulting David Ross, because remember David, portioning. The judge said there was enough evidence and he set bond for all the individual members, but only Hayward and Robert's mandates to post-post-pail. So Robert's got out, but he didn't do well with his immediate freedom, because two days later he was again arrested for threatening the life of a local butcher. The same butcher that the gang sold the meat

that belonged to the cow found in the outbuilding at six mile house that belonged to the neighborhood they had the cow hide for. Well, a freaking circle. That's so satisfying. I'm so impressed with how you did that all in a row. I was just really intense on that subject. I was like, that's really mean that you stole his cow and then you killed it.

And you sold its meat and you kept it side. That's not cool. So the trial began on May 10, 1819, and that's where John Lavinia, William, Joseph, and James were all indicted for assaults with intent to murder David Ross. The attorney general's documents said the gang, quote, were said to have wielded pointed and fired a loaded weapon at David Ross with the intent to kill him. I agree. But the time the hearing concluded on the 27th, through various methods, a lot of the gang

either skipped town where either to escape. Or somehow got off the indictment. I'm not really sure how. It left really only John and Lavigne on the hook for the whole crime bomb. Excellent. So the trial was drawing huge crowds and the couple was found guilty on both assaults with intent to murder and common assaults on David Ross. So on June 2nd they were brought before Judge Charles Jones call cock However the sentencing part then got moved to the constitutional court at the last second This is so complicated

It is so now it was gonna be held and it wasn't gonna be held until the conclusion of the trial and unfortunately for John and LaVinia The constitutional court wouldn't be back in session until January. And it was shooting. So the couple was gonna be held at the city jail where you pee, where you sleep, and you might die and rot in there. And this had been going on like almost a year at this point.

Yeah. And in the meantime, William Hayward had been recaptured in South Carolina, and because he was tried and convicted in absentia so while he wasn't there he was returned to Charleston to await with the Fisher so the gangs all get back together. And as a husband and wife John and Levinia were held in the same cell so that's sweet. That's nice. But they were on the ground floor initially. That was like the really bad floor to be on.

Is everything dripping? Yeah, it's all teared up in the middle. There's no ventilation. It's just not good. So, Olivia used her wiles to get them moved to the deaders section of the prison, which was on a higher floor. The cells were much bigger, not a lot of infectious diseases floating around. So, they were allowed to do that. And weirdly, the debtor's section was also where Joseph Roberts, another member of the gang,

was serving his sentence for threatening the butcher. So they were all reunited again in the cell. So on the evening of September 13th, John and Joseph actually managed to dig a hole under the wall of one of the cell windows, large enough for them to fit through. And using a rope made of blankets they tied together, they climbed down the wall. Damn. Joseph Roberts went out and then he got there. John was going down and the blanket rope snapped. Oh, hold on.

So he felt 20 feet to the ground below and now Levinia couldn't escape. Good. So she's just sitting there with a giant hole in the wall. She's like, oh, that sucks. So I actually don't know anything about this. She's like, you didn't want to go with the ladies first. They're okay. So they were like, oh no, that sucks.

And then they just ran away. They just ran away. No one noticed until the next morning. That's when the governor issued a proclamation offering a $500 reward for their recapture. The sheriff didn't have to look very far. I don't, they weren't really smart. I don't think this was really going on. And again, this is another case of John

being a really good husband. Even if he left Levinia. Well, don't you worry, though, because their original plan was to escape and travel by boat to Cuba, obviously. Oh, tough to. But John refused to leave Levinia behind. Because their original plan was to escape and travel by boat to Cuba. Obviously. But John refused to leave Livinia behind. So he and Roberts had stayed close to the jail to try to come up with a plan for how to get Livinia.

Oh, okay, love. So he got himself got that way a few days after their escape. They were visiting a local grocer, which I'm also like, guys, what are you doing? Like you're wanted convex. Is it a local grocer? Which I'm also like, guys, what are you doing? Like your wanted convicts. The local grocer was like, high John and Rob. Like, what's wrong with you? Are you supposed to be in jail?

And you immediately called Sheriff Cleary. It was like, hi, I have them here. What a wrap. Yeah, so we had been in September 16th. The sheriff found them hiding under an overturned boat. Oh no. Which is similar to how they found the Boston I was in a media car. I have they found him in a boat. Yeah, yeah, but they just shot at a bunch of times.

But we say full circle. We haven't brought them up. Yeah, but we're in Boston. We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in

We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in We're in returned to the city jail, they were going to have to wait for that constitutional court in January. So on January 17th, 1820, John and Livinia appeared before the constitutional court. They figured they were going to be sentenced for those assaults, and that's it. But as they got there, the prosecutor was like, hey, you're also going to be sentenced for highway robbery. And they were like, wait, though, that's a capital offense, and we will die. And they were like, that's up. Don't know what to tell you. And it was on John Peoples. That's what they were like, wait, though, that's a capital offense, and we will die and they were like, that's up.

Don't know what to tell you. And it was on John Peoples, that's what they were. They were now bringing that in at the, at like the 9th hour. So they ended up being sentenced to hang on February 4th, 1820. In the week following their sentence, John and Levinia had petitioned several clergymen and notable Charlestonians, just asking to intervene on their behalf because they were being sentenced for something they were not tried and convicted of. If they did it, they didn't have a fair trial. So they claimed they wanted an opportunity for repentance and for time to prepare to

meet their God. And so they wanted a reprieve at least. The governor granted the reprieve, but the order only pushed the date back to like February 18th. Oh shit. It was like a few days. Now while John and Lavigne awaited for execution, they spent a lot of time preparing for death and what comes next with various clergymen. John, like the original story, apparently welcomed us. He was like very intensely praying, but Lavigne, definitely legitimately was not interested in this. She was more worried about just saving herself. She was like, I would really like just to live through this and

not prepare for what comes next. So they said when she engaged in prayer, Lavania would jump at any moment or noise by her captors. She was convinced they were coming to her with a pardon. So she was totally convinced she was getting pardoned out of this. And she was very confident that they would not one execute her for a crime she had never been convicted of and two execute a woman. Unfortunately, she was wrong.

Tundutton. Because yeah. But at the time, I will say contrary to what like legends will tell you, many residents of Charleston really believed Livini was innocent of at least that crime and they were actually advocating for her release Wow, which is wild but this got more intense when a local man was arrested for an unrelated crime and allegedly Confessed to the highway robbery Which is OK.

But he's, I don't know if that was the sheriff's reaction. I don't know if that was the sheriff's reaction. I don't know if that was the sheriff's reaction. My guy. But I'm like, didn't John People's say there was like a whole gang of people who came out and this guy's like, I did it, though. Apparently, the man was able to identify

the exact amount of money that had been stolen by from John People's. OK. And it was also being able to identify the exact amount of money that had been stolen by from John people Okay, so it was also being able to say other elements of the crime that he probably wouldn't know if he wasn't there So maybe he was part of the mob at least Regardless of the confession though the governor refused to extend the reprieve and in fact He left the city and just to avoid any negative press. He was like, I know this guy says that he didn't, we never actually tried, you were convicted for this, but I'm gonna go on vacation.

Honestly, how? On the nose is that though. Yeah, I'm like, he's like, I'm out. Yeah, I'm like, I'm on vacation with my family. Yeah, that's like in the Jack the Ripper case. When he was just like, well, I'm out. I'm gonna go to Sweden, see you guys later. Yeah, I hope you guys catch up. See you. Good luck.

I mean there's one way to deal with all of your problems. Just out of Sweden. So now they were gonna be killed for crimes that they were very sketchily associated with and they weren't even tried for but there were bodies found on their property. So like this is kind of mayhem. Yeah, in all ways. You're, they didn't do some bad stuff. It's totally casual. They still unkilled the cow. Yeah, so fuck this old to me. And then they did two people died on their property at the very least. And one of them was shot. So like one of them was shot. Yeah, just saying. So in February 18th arrived caskets for the fishers were selected. So beautiful. And the hangman was

measuring the length of rope. When John and Lavinia were led from the city jail to the gallows. And apparently, it is true that when Lavinia saw the hangman measuring the rope that was going to be used to hang her with, she shrieked in terror, her cry chilling every heart with horror. Which, yeah. Yeah, it's not the do it. They were presented in the town square before they went to the gallows, and they were covered in loose white garments together. Apparently it's like a smock thing, I don't know why they would do it. But they were given one final opportunity to say goodbye, and at this moment they fell

into each other's arms. Ruined me. I know. Wow. They begged the hangman to spare their lives, but the hangman was indifferent to their suffering. And he was apparently very aggressive and like, man handled the moon. Yeah, you know, that's you have to be to have that job. But once John and LeVidia had gone on the LeVidia, excuse me, had gone on the wagon, they made

their way to the gallows. Huge crowds are following them. It's like a parade. And when they arrived, John Klein the scaffold without incident, but Livinia refused to move from her spot at the bottom of the stairs. She had to be carried up on the platform. Once there, she called out to the crowd, apparently with her arms outstretched, asking them to save her. Wow.

They all literally were like, nah. It's like that like blink blink blink. Just crickets. So then she began cursing them and blaspheming apparently. Blaspheme them girl. Yeah, they're not helping you. Yeah. So finally, the Reverend asked John whether he had any final words and John decided to address the crowd. And he begged forgiveness for those he had ever offended. And he also claimed his and Lavigne's innocence. They both embraced one final time.

The sacks went over their heads, signal from the sheriff, down they go. The press reports that Lavigne had, quote, died without a struggle or a groan, and that John unfortunately wasn't so lucky, and it was some minutes before he expired and ceased to struggle. Ouch. Yeah. So just after 2 p.m. on February 18th, 1820, John and Livinia Fischer were pronounced dead. He was only 29.

Oh my gosh. She was 28. Oh my god, I was picturing like people who were at 15. Me too. Me too. For real. They were young. So John and Livinia Fischer were members

of a gang of thieves. That much is true. Livinia Fisher was definitely not America's first serial killer. By any means. No. It's possible she never killed anyone. It's possible she did kill someone. In truth, the only crime they really acknowledged committing was robbing and beating David Ross.

And David had it coming. No, not shangs. The legend grew nonetheless. And in the years following their execution, beating David Ross, which is like a attic on the road. No, not shangs. The legend grew nonetheless. And in the years following their execution, John and Lavigne Fisher's story became a media tale of just murder and mayhem. It was huge in the penny dreadful publications and pamphlets.

They really took it and ran with it. In 1830, a man named Peter Nielsen published a book where he claimed to have been in Charleston at the time of the arrest. And he said the fishers had been robbing and killing for years. And according to Bruce Orr, Neilsen claimed, quote, on digging around this den of iniquity, a great number of skeletons were found. No doubt the remains of unfortunate travelers.

So people still claimed that there was tons of skeletons in that house. Audi, Audi, Audi. Yeah, everywhere. Exactly. And actually, in the latter part of the 19th century, Livinius skeleton was exhumed from her coffin in a potter's field and put on display at the Charleston Museum so everyone could see the remains of the only woman

to have been hanged in South Carolina. Wow. They were occasionally, I loved this because when I read it, I was like, what does that mean? Because they were occasionally removed from their display for being out of order. Like the video was out of order. Out of order.

I was like, did she need a tune up? Like what does that mean? Yeah, I don't know about all that. Out of order. Oh. But as of, it was latest 1922, they were still on display. Oh, shit. Yeah.

And they were at that point, they were definitely not just like a band of gang of like bandits. They were, she was the first female serial. I see. That's what they were touting her as. Wow. Who had like hundreds of bones in her cellar. You're going to get those punters in. Right.

You got to. And I think part of this story is definitely she was a woman. So it's exaggerated because female criminals of her caliber were definitely not common. Even of her real caliber were not common. Her rest in story definitely became a huge interest of the time, and even now. And in the 19th century, many of, if not most people,

believed that women were incapable of violence of any kind, never mind murder. So, Lavinia was just something like new and fascinating, I think, and so she just, the legend just got a life of its own. But there is always moral lessons and social lessons in urban legends. Don't steal someone's cow. That's what I took from it. But this story, people like to say, is that this is telling you what is and is an acceptable of a woman at the time. It's very clear that they were trying to be like, look at the consequences for stepping out

of your normal, like you should be at home popping out babies, something like cooking dinner. You're going to get hanged. Like that's essentially what it was. And finally, there is the convenient fact that the legendary account of Lovina Fisher's monstrous killing spree and being the serial killer, it justifies a lot of problematic elements of the real story. The legend kind of makes law enforcement and the justice system at the time like they swept in and they just took care of like pain and scrims and we took these people off the streets so they were

painting them as these vicious violent killers. So it kind of also justifies this execution that was probably not justified at the time because they were not tried for this crime and who even knows if they committed it. But according to Bruce or the government had actually been hoping to secure the land that five mile house and six mile house sat on. Oh, so we know exactly. And it was going to build a new naval base. No wonder they will burn in all that shit. I'm not saying that. I'm actually the government.

So the execution of the fishers in William Hayward who owned five mile house by the way That would have cleared the property for the state to do whatever the hell they wanted to do without having to jump through any hoops That's rubbish tonight and that is the story of Levinnie a Fisher. That's bonkers. Six mile house. Well done Thank you. That was outstanding. It's like a twisty turny, like what really happened? Yeah. And I love that we started with some sort of highway and robber situation. Oh yeah, yeah.

Then we transmitted into some sort of BDSM dungeon. Exactly. And then we ended up with government corruption. That's what I always like to travel through. Via the Chinese Empire. Which you saw that come. You got thing, girl. It's a weird tale. via the Chinese Empire. Would you sell that? You can't think of it. It's a weird tale.

That was amazing. I can't believe I'd never heard of that. I'm going to go look into this and the bloody thing. Yeah, I've made a mental note. Super interesting. And you guys should look into Sony Bean. It's not real, but it is quite fun. But the interesting is interesting.

Absolutely. And then we have to just get you to come to London. So we can show you all the grizzly sides. Yes, please. Yeah, we can take you to the clink. Yes. Yeah. Please. We need all of it.

There's also, there's a bar in shortage that used to be a prison. And I probably can't go because my ex-boyfriend works there, but I'll send you that. And it's all of the like little booths downstairs or old cells. Oh, that is so fucking cool. There is very many things. Well, you were in a sky-soaking coma, that. There you go.

I love that. Well, that was amazing. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you for listening to this great story. It was so fun. And now we get to do another one with you. Exactly. So we're going to do one now.

And ours is witchy. Ooh, hell yeah. It is very English. Ooh, love. Like the most extra rural, rural, rural, and very similar time period. We're going for 1875. Oh my gosh, perfect.

I love an 1875. Very, very, very perfectly matched. Hell yeah. Over on the red handed feet now, we will take you. Whichy, Olden Timey, 1875 story, I can't promise we go to the Chinese Empire, but we do all sorts of things. Let's figure it out.

Oh, we're together. Yeah. Shang will work his way in there. And guys, go head over there. Yeah. Let's go meet you there. Go your car over. Switch feeds.

Let's go. Let's go. And yeah, come back out with us at Red Hat. Yeah. Callie, we're going to be there, guys. So check us out there. And we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it. Wee!

But that's where you steal somebody's cow, because I just don't really like that. I really like that. Because you're starting to swear. I'm really fixated on that. Bye. Bye. Yeah, I'm really fixing it on that. Bye! Bye! Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music.

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