Morbid - Episode 458: H.H. Holmes Part 2

Episode Date: May 11, 2023

In part 2 we talk about the infamous "Murder Castle" and begin to dive into the crimes committed there. Holmes' brutality and savagery knew no bounds and now he has a whole building to do it in.Thank you to Dave White for research assistance! See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Yeah, you guys do like that. We've got a lot of people who are like, I love that sound. It was very calming. But I don't know how you don't like the sound of rain to start calming. It's very calming. You might not even be able to hear it

because we have soundproofing, but like, you never know. I don't know. You know, I don't know your life. I don't know your ears. I don't know what you're doing. I don't know what you're doing. Who is it or you? I'm just kidding. You know, I don't know your life. I don't know your ears. I don't know what you're doing. I don't know what you're doing. Okay. Who is it?

I'm just kidding. You're weird, I love you. So yeah, welcome back to part two of the H.H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H So the first part was kind of setting it up where he came from his first marriage, how he was a full-anderer, how he was a schemer, how he was a shitty student, how he smelled of a smegel. Oh, I didn't know. So he was a liar and a cheater and a fraudder and he's just an all-around ship person. Well, now we're going gonna add murder to his repertoire. Oh, what a repertoire. Yeah, he's awful and he's gonna get awful lyr.

So, then he'll get awful list. Yup, he's gonna become one of the most awfuls ever. So, when we last left you guys, he had just moved to Chicago. After he was gonna try that whole scheme, selling the bodies of the wife and the child, of his friend, for the insurance, all that stuff. And then he just abandoned that. And then he's like, oh, that's why there's bones buried in my basement.

You idiots. Of course, I didn't murder anybody except I murdered a lot of people. And now I'm going to brag about it. So figure it out. So figure it out. But yes, so we left you there. So he's in Chicago now. And as if you know the story of H.A. Chomes, you know that it really does revolve around Chicago.

Chicago's kind of like the room where it happened. Very much the room where it happened. Devil in the white city, there he is. So once he'd arrived in Chicago, he somehow passed the exam to become a pharmacist. Wow, I would think that that's a pretty difficult exam. Yeah, and he was only one of like a handful. Yeah. I guess he had something in there. Maybe chemistry was his thing, and that's... He did a lot of extra stuff with chemistry,

so maybe he really did give himself a leg up in that department. Maybe, but maybe he just wasn't great a leg up in that department. Maybe. But maybe he just wasn't great in other things, or he just wasn't a good student, you know? Yeah. Exactly. That pretty much makes sense. But he ended up finding work at Holtin Drugs, which was a pharmacy on the corner of 63rd

in Wallace, and it was owned by an elderly woman named Mrs. Holtin. Yeah. Holtin Drugs. Isn't it funny to think of like stores just being named like something drugs? Yeah, just like Holtin. I imagine that. Holtin drugs. Isn't it funny to think of like stores just being named like something drugs? Yeah, just like Holtin drugs. Right. But she explained to Holmes that the pharmacy

actually belonged to her husband, Dr. E. S. Holtin, but he was very sick, very elderly, you know, ailing at the moment. So HH once took him, put him down the stairs and take over the fucking pharmacy. So, uh, HH once took him right out of the stairs and take over the fucking pharmacy. Yeah, the fucking pharmacy kit. And she was finding it a little hard,

a little difficult to manage this entire pharmacy by herself. She was elderly herself. So of course, like we said, his ears perked up. He was sensing opportunity here. And Holmes told her, huh, I too am a doctor. I thought you were going to say he said, I too am sick and elderly. No, you would lie like that though. You would just sit in there like a 27, you know, 27. I'm so elderly. Why don't you believe me? But yeah, he was like, you know what, I'm a doctor. I have a lot of experience in the pharmacy. He did not, but he did pass the pharmacy exam.

So he came cheated. I have something happened there, but he was like, you know what, I'm absolutely certain that I can transform this into just a thriving business again if you just give it to me. Out it. So not long after he began work at the pharmacy

because she believed him, of course. Yeah, she's a sweet little man. Dr. Holton did die. Rip. And he left the store and everything in it to miss this Holton. So, he was, so Holm sees this happening and he's like, you know, he's angling to own this store.

So he frames it like he's doing her favor because he's like, you, you're old and ailing. You do. Your husband just died. You don't want to run this whole thing. So he's like, I'll buy this from you and I'll allow you to live on the second floor. And she was like, kind. My God, you are so nice.

So she agreed and he did pay her. So she did, she used the money that she got by mortgaging the store's fixtures, fixtures. Lila fixtures. Why couldn't I say fixtures? It's hard. It's a, I said like fixtures. Because you have to do like a titch. Yeah, that's hard. Fixtures. You know, words are hard. In the stock and actually, homes bought the pharmacy and he rebranded the entire thing as HH' pharmacy. So he took out the drugs, and he replaced it with pharmacy.

Well, they made it more of standing. He was like, you know what? I think we do a little more here than just drugs. You know what, I'm pretty upstanding. So let's change this. In the early days of him owning this new pharmacy, a lot of the customers would come in and they'd ask about Mrs. Holton

because people loved her. She was a sweet old lady. Totally. And every time he would say that she went on a trip to California. Oh. Now, this wasn't strange because this is something she had said she wanted to do, but she never had the money to do it. Oh, sweetie.

She's not upstairs anymore. And she hadn't returned for several weeks. No. And people are still asking where she is. And when they would ask, Colms would just be like, well, you know, she just loved California so much that she just stayed there. She's just there.

You can't call her on the phone. Because like we don't have those. 3,800s here. So like you did this, you know, deal with it. I guess she did with that. She did with that. So there was no actual physical evidence of him having killed Mrs. Holt Holtin, but there's no evidence that he didn't either. And there's probably some circumstantial

evidence that points to her probably being killed. Yeah. I think her disappearance was not so much that she moved away or she went on a vacation to California. I think he just got rid of that whole situation so that the entire building could be his. It does sound like that. And it's very on-brand with what he would do anyways, so it makes sense. There you go.

These are things that he would do later, so it's like, why would we not think that it would be this time? I believe she might be his first victim, but what about the boy? I thought you thought the boy was. That one I'm like, I go back and forth with. That one for sure could be his first victim.

But you like full heartedly. Mrs. Holt, I have very little doubt that he killed Mrs. Holt and so she's either his first or his second. Yeah. But it should be noted too that there are variations in this story. If you're researching this case yourself too,

like one of the stories is that the woman Mrs. Holtin is not super elderly, and that he got ownership of the store in exchange for promising to marry her. Oh, shit. And either her or her daughter, like the story never really, makes it clear, because again,

he confessed to so many different things that some of these stories got intertwined. Sure. But the one I told seems to be the most correct one. Okay. But the other story is that like they both go missing or one of them goes missing and another version. The woman's name is Elizabeth Sarah Holtin,

who is the doctor and the pharmacy is owned by her and her husband, but she's the doctor. They said, let's go to the feminist angle. Yeah, exactly. And that they are a young couple, and she decided to sell the pharmacy when she became pregnant. So like, that's another story.

In this version, the couple doesn't disappear, and they were actually still living in the neighborhood afterwards. So like, it doesn't share. Yeah. Either way, though, he wanted the pharmacy. he got the pharmacy and then the two people that were gone. Don't worry, we obviously owed the pharmacy.

We're never seen again. So like, I think the puzzle piece of Moida is put together to quote, to quote, Spencer. I think so. And to quote Spencer and the Moida department. Yeah, to me, it just, you know, Mrs. Holton was older. People came in looking for her. She wasn't there.

She went to California. She didn't go to California. Yeah. No matter what, he took ownership of that pharmacy in late 1886. So now the pharmacy is open and it seems to be running pretty smoothly with them at the helm, at the very least.

He's like, everything seems to be going good. So like, you know what, I'm gonna look for some romance. I'd like to point out that he's still married to Clara. Yeah. But yeah, there's that. So he's turning his attention to the ladies now. When he was in Minneapolis, he met a woman named Miss Meardah, Bellnap.

Murder? I think it's murder. They've sparked up a flirtation and she seemed pretty smitten with him at the time. And he made his life sound very exciting, with him at the time and he made his life sound very exciting, which like at the time it kind of was. He was traveling all over the place and because at the end of 1886, Mierda's life was small. It was kind of unexciting. She was in the small town, you know, like, she'd never really

seen the world. Yeah, she lived with her parents in Minneapolis and worked in a music store. It was like a cute little existence, she lived with her parents in Minneapolis and worked in a music store. It was like a cute little existence, but like to her that wasn't enough. She didn't feel like she was getting out there. I got that. So Holmes seemed very enticing to her,

and he was very charming. So, and he also represented himself as a very intelligent man. He's a doctor, like that's like, whoa, hey. I mean, that's like, you're young and you're getting it. And he's also a business owner in Chicago. So Holmes knew all of this. And so he wrote to Merta and courted her very aggressively, first through letters. And then he did it in person. Like, he was really playing the long game here. And after only a few months of talking back and

forth, he took a bold move and he proposed to murder, and the two ended up being married January 28th, 1887. Oh, okay. He still married to Clara. I was like, how does, they just didn't realize in this district because it was like another district. Oh, I think it was just in the 1800s and they, like, there's no electronic records happening. There is the 1800s, but I keep forgetting that.

I'm like, why didn't they know? Why didn't they just look it up on the computer? Why didn't they just like write that down somewhere? So, Merta was very excited about this marriage, but I think that excitement would have been slightly tempered if he did let her know that he was still married to a woman named Clara. Now usually do it.

Yeah, strangely, two weeks after he married murder, Holmes filed a divorce petition in Cook County Supreme Court against Clara stating that quote, on the 28th day of June 1883 in the city of Ann Arbor in the state of Michigan, the said Clara A. Muget, holy disregarding an inviolation of her marriage vows, covenants and obligations, committed adultery,

and had carnal knowledge with one J. M. Downer. What? So he's claiming they should divorce Clara, and he... Yeah. ...after he's already married a second woman, by the way. He's now filing for divorce against Clara, saying Clara committed adultery. Like, sir, you were, number one, you did that super-duper backwards.

Can you read out to committing adultery? You motherfucking hypocrite. Like you are in the throes of adulterous behavior. And you were saying she was, she adultered years ago? What? It's a lot. He's doing, he got married to another woman. Like are we clear? She had been a doctor for years. She had been a doctor for years. She had been a doctor for years.

She had been a doctor for years. She had been a doctor for years. She had been a doctor for years. She had been a doctor for years. She had been a doctor for years. She had been a doctor for years. She had been a doctor for years. She had been a doctor for years.

She had been a doctor for years. She had been a doctor for years. She had been a doctor for years. represents to your honor that he has ever since the time of said marriage, conducted himself as a true kind and affectionate husband. You dirty little liar. And during that time has faithfully discharged all of his duties. Now, do you remember when he abandoned her several times with their child, lived off her money alone and beat her to the point of black eyes? Do you remember? I remember any of that. Does any of that ring is true kind or affectionate? No, no, no.

Oh, well, he also added into the decree that their six-year-old son, Robert, quote, is now living and is under the care, custody, and control of your orator, Herman Webster Muget. That simply wasn't true and never was. We too, he was saying like, I take care of the child? Like he literally had put in the divorce decree that that child is now living and is under the care custody and control of him.

And that's not at all the truth. He had been with Clara the entire time. Also, that's so easy to prove. At one point, he tried to go get Robert and take custody and she was like, no bitch. I remember. And it didn't happen. Right. But he's now having it put in the decree At one point he tried to go get Robert and take custody and she was like, no bitch. I remember. And then it didn't happen.

Right. But he's now having it put in the decree that Robert is in his custody. I don't know if he thought he would get more money or something like that or something he absolutely thought that. But like you're an idiot. And again, so easy to prove.

Like you go to his house, does he have a child's bedroom? Yeah. Like the end. And then he'll stop. You don't want that child. So you're just doing that to be an asshole. Oh, for sure. But how many parents do that? Oh my god. They don't actually want custody of the child. They just want to do it to hurt the other world. What? And it's like, fuck you. Yeah. So they looked and no one could ever find a

jam downer. Either that Clara supposedly had carnal knowledge with. What is the mean? They fucked carnal knowledge is fucking. Yeah way, they fucked carnal knowledge, just fucking, that's fukin'. That's fukin'. He likely did niggas. Carnal knowledge. Like, he likely did not exist. No.

Holmes was a lying sack of shit, but it doesn't really matter anyways, because he also failed to show up on, and follow up on any of the administrative requirements. And the petition, like, and the petition, like, I hear that. But like, and the petition just lapsed. It was eventually dismissed by the court for, quote,

default of appearance of Complaintant. It's unclear whether Clara ever even received notice of his intention to divorce her. I don't even think she knew he ever wanted to divorce her so he didn't get divorced. You know what, this is giving a little bit. Sheena and Raquel. to divorce her so he didn't get divorced. You know what, this is giving a little bit. Sheena and Raquel.

Makes this fake TRO, except it's not a TRO. It's any worse than even show up for the fucking hearing. He doesn't. That's where my head's at. Except he actually, like, should have just divorced Clara. Like why are you not getting divorced? Why are you married to like several women at a time? That will he's the sand of all in it all now. So like he said obviously that's exactly what you think of with Hitchhomes.

But like his marriage to Clara, Holmes' relationship with murder started off like that of like any couple in love. She helped him run the pharmacy and she became very just like impressed and enamored with his work ethic because he was really running this shit. Like she thought, wow, what a cute family we are. Like I'm helping you run your pharmacy in Chicago and we're so successful. And she later said, quote, ambition has been the curse of my husband's life. He wanted to attain a position where he would be honored and respected. He wanted wealth. And again, we see the hallmark of his behavior is always based on money. There's got to be capricorn in this chart.

I'm pretty, I think his birthday, he's a cancer, like a son, but I'm like, there's capricorn in that chart. Money motivated. Money motivated. And two of fault. But in the spring of that year, Merta actually became pregnant. In the bulk of the work she did was shifting off of her

and her husband had to kind of like take a bigger role back in the pharmacy. See, I want to be excited for her, but I feel like it's going to end bad. No, you definitely don't want to be excited for this whole thing. But she was separated from Holmes a lot. Like she was kind of, she had to be in the back.

Right. Like she could do office work, so she was just kind of relegated away from the public too. And she was lonely. Yeah. Yeah, she got lonely. So her parents moved from Minneapolis to Willment, a small village about 15 miles outside of Chicago. I loved it. They were like, we'll be with you. We'll come and hang with you. And after they had settled in there, Merta moved in with her parents and gave birth to their daughter, Lucy. Cute. At first, Merta's parents were very suspicious of H.A. Choms. Well, because this all came about very quickly.

Very quickly. Mary, baby, business. And I feel like parents, they know. It's like he went after young women at the time. And he went after young men for like schemes and stuff. So he was always going for people who he knew he could con. Like young and unexperienced. But older people, I feel like elderly people fell for it,

but somewhere in between like the parents of the whole generation were like, something is sus about you and I don't know what it is. And he didn't exactly endear himself to them. Despite his wife and child living in the house, he was barely there. Like he never came to visit. So they were like, do you want to see your infant child? No. No. No. Okay. Well, literally never came to see them. That's good. Immediately they began to question the kind of man that their daughter had married and had a child with. And soon though, he was able to charm his way into their good graces.

I'm not sure how, but it took a lot of hisushing on his part. It was mainly when they saw the ways that he like, he wasn't around all the time, but he showered Merta and the baby with gifts and adoration every time he would be there. So he would love bomb a lot of the time. He was there.

When he was there, he was there. He was just never there. And he also, Oh, it's beautiful. That's for a poetry. He also always had an excuse for his long absences. It was never just like, oh, whatever, fuck it. Like, do it.

Work day is always like, oh my God, I know. It's just like running a business. I'm just such a business man. Business money was like, look at this briefcase. I'm very important. He will, there's nothing in it. And she's open, and it's just like a mock fly. So, but he would say that things were busy at the store,

and there was so much to do in Chicago, and making it seem, you know, like, he was just up to his neck and work, and he was just trying to support his little family. And according to Eric Larson, who I will source his work in our show notes, Holmes is manner of dress and how he would frequently give a lot of gifts. And like, he was always about the material things that really gave off, and especially

back in those days, like that he was a man of importance. Like, he gave off that air to everybody. Dress for the job he wants. That's the job you have. That's a thing. He was very concerned with that. Like, he always wanted to present himself as being a man of importance, a man of means, a man of power.

And it honestly went a long way to making her parents. At least be eased a little bit thinking while he's going to take care of them. Yeah. I get it. So. So... So... Moms are just like really great people overall. Like, moms can do anything. Sometimes they even lift cars and stuff to like, save what's underneath the car, which is usually their baby. But when it comes to finding an unforgettable Mother's Day gift, movement makes stylish watches and inspire jewelry as unique as she.

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to the days before streaming services. Whoa. You know when you would come home from high school and it was only a few hours until that TV show, everyone was watching was about to come on. Well, in 1999, that show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In our podcast with Wondery, the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer, we take it back to 1999.

So get out your knee high boots and paste that poster of Angel on the wall. It's time to enter the Buffy verse. Some of you avid morbid listeners already know what we've gotten store. Join us. Join us as we Since we sway our way through Buffy's drama, action, and romance. Episode by episode. Slacy. Follow the rewatcher, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Darn, un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un-un As this is happening, he is now thinking about that infamous murder castle that everybody knows about. Because now he's in Chicago.

He's settled there. He's in an apartment. I'd like above the pharmacy, but he wants more. And he's got grand, grand plans. And during the later decades of the 19th century, Chicago was going, like, there was a huge population boom. A lot of people were moving west for work and opportunity and like a bigger, brighter life.

Kind of like, oh, everybody's like, oh, my God, let's go to California and become stars. Like, it's the same kind of thing. California, New York, Chicago, same vibes. Yeah, exactly. As a result, new buildings were popping up all over the city because people were coming in, the economy was starting to boom, people were trying to make way for a ton of residents to be living their big apartment buildings.

And since arriving in Chicago and starting work, Holmes had been eyeing this empty lot that happened to be across the street from the pharmacy. And finally, in the summer of 1888, he managed to buy it. And at the time, he registered the deed under the false name, HS Campbell. This is the beginning of him using many, many aliases

to get many, many things. Also, can I just know, it wasn't 1888 Jack the Ripper. Yeah, so they were operating at the same time. That's so crazy. Two of the world's most fucking notorious serial killers operating at the same time. It's opposite ends of the world. Yeah. It's like really wild. Yeah. That's why a lot of people think there was some layover between the two.

Really? Like a lot of people think H.H. Holmes is Jack the Ripper. Oh, okay. Vice versa. Oh, I think we talked about it in the two. Really? Like a lot of people thinks H.H. Holmes is Jack the Ripper. Oh, okay. Vice versa. Oh. I think we talked about it in the episodes. Yeah. It's a theory. It's a theory.

I was like, I was like, we mentioned it, but we didn't go super into it because I don't, I, one, I haven't looked too, I haven't looked hard enough into that theory to be convinced by it. Yeah. And I don't want to give a full opinion on something that I haven't given the full court press to. Well, it kind of seems like, at least from what I know, HH Holmes' operation of murder is very different than Jack the Rippers, right? It is.

And he is mainly money vote motivated with his... And Jack was in. And Jack was in. But he liked killing as well. Like HH Holmes liked killing and he liked killing women. Yeah, he did enjoy that. And it did, it wasn't, to me, HH Holmes isn't just a I kill for financial gain.

Sometimes it's I killed because I wanted to kill. Right. Or I killed because this bitch was in my way, essentially. Yikes. Like, no, that's essentially what it would say. Yeah. And it's like, that's how he kind of presented himself as like, she was a problem.

Yeah. So, how she had to go. Damn. And the way he would talk about it was very cold. Like that, like, won't she become an issue? So, down the shoot she went. Crazy. And he was very like intricate about the ways he would do it.

To me, it doesn't really line up so far with what I've seen between the two cases, because of mainly because of the two, I think, environments with which they were killing in are so vastly different that their methods of murder don't add up together. But I don't know if that has to do with the environments. Yeah, possibly. That the person tailored himself to those environments. Right.

But who knows? I mean, when we talked about it in, when we talked, actually, when we talked about it with Tobias, he made a valid point of like, it would say, we always thought, but like, I'm like, ah, in Whitechappel, if it was like somebody like HH Holmes who dressed like a man of importance all the time, and was very like, showy, He would stick out like a sore thumb.

And it's like so, I don't know, but then the reports of Jack the Ripper that he did look a little fancy. So it's like, but you don't know, you know, like we've come through a lot of different theories with that. And it's like, it could be mistaken. It could be, I don't know.

I just hate the unknown. It's an interesting theory, and I will look further. I, you know what, I'll probably look further into it by the end of this series because I would like to touch upon it more by the end. But I definitely want to look further into it and look at some dates and look at, you know, the time I'm so. Because I know there was some possibilities that HH was out of the country at certain times. That maybe Jack had left at certain times and it it would be, how fucking crazy would it be if he was? Jack Thorepper?

It would be. Because 1888 is when Jack ended, right? 1888 Jack was still going. Oh, he was still going, OK. But he did like, I think this is when he was coming to an end. So which is interesting because this is really when he, when he was getting to a beginning going over here. So that is interesting.

It definitely is. I'll be excited to hear what you have to say once you are into it. I definitely want to look further into it for sure. For the divergence there. And we'll talk about it. Yeah, don't worry. It's really not a divergence though because it's all the same. Cool.

But so we were saying that by the summer of 1888, he had registered this lot across the street from the pharmacy under the false name HS Campbell. So this is when Holmes committed the first murder that he would wholly admit to. Okay. He claimed he killed a friend and former schoolmate named Dr. Leecock.

Now he did this because this man had a large life insurance policy, and he said he lured his friend to Chicago under some kind of bullshit pretense, gave him, quote, an overwhelming dose of lhodanum and killed him that way. After his murder, Holmes took the body of Leecock to Grand Rapids, Michigan. He did this because it would look like Leecock had died accidentally in his home. And then he collected the $40,000 from the life insurance policy. Kind. Now, this is one of the murders people waver about because he loved to talk about murder in Mayhem when he was caught.

And he really wanted to make everybody like, you gotta know, I'm a fucking monster. Like he wanted you to know he was like, let me tell you how bad I am. He doesn't need to make us believe. He is a fucking monster. Like he wanted you to know he was like, let me tell you how bad I am. He doesn't need to make us believe he is a fucking monster. That's the thing. Like he has no need to exaggerate and yet he does all the time. It's very strange. But either way, there is mention a lot in his youth,

like in his early days, in any research you see of a classmate at college named Robert Leacock. Now, he was actually the one that Holmes claimed helped him originally come up with the idea of faking a death and using a medical dead body to claim insurance fraudulently. So it would be a little poetic of Holmes to then use that plan on his friend who he came up with it with, but take it to another level and just murder him for it.

Like it would be something he would do. That's a lot. And when he confessed, he said, quote, like the man-eating tiger of the tropical jungle, I roamed about the world seeking whom I could destroy. Dramatic. That's him. Yeah.

That's him. That's him and his mustache. Very dramatic. Now for the desert Yeah, that's him. That's him and his mustache very dramatic. Now for the so this all began. This is what began the murder castle idea. It was what he said. Okay. He said after this whole scheme, after he went through with it, he got the money. He was ready to go. He said, I had this grand idea for a murder castle. And according to Holmes, the design and the purpose of it really came to him all at once after this. This was like the igniting thing.

He had like an epiphany. Yeah, he said he originally envisioned a massive three-floor building, three stories up. The first floor would have retail shops, pharmacies, jewelry shops, clothing stores. In his words, he said it would be, quote, to generate income and allow him to employ as many women as possible that he could then murder.

That he could then murder. Okay. The second and third floors were going to be apartments for rent. And he was gonna have his own very fancy apartment in the giant corner unit of the second floor, like essentially kind of like a penthouse. Exactly. And he would have a large window

that he could gaze over 63rd and Wallace. Like I just got distracted by palace. Like I had a want that. I know. You don't want this one. Not this one. No. Now this was all the normal logistics of a building it seems.

Yeah. Like that seems like a very normal building. It seems great. Except all the women. And it seems innocuous to a certain extent. Sure. Pretty normal. Seems like some kind of like he seems like a piggy guy who just wants to hire women.

He's like Doug Dimadone. There you go. So, they've sailed Dimadone. Well, this part was important to him. Like that, it was important to him to have a very front-facing business model, a very front-facing-looking building that, yeah, no one could question.

But what was more important to him was these macabre little details that were going to be hidden inside the bones of the building. They were much more important and much more exciting to him in particular. To us, they're fucking horrifying. To give you an idea, some of the features he wanted was a giant shoot that would extend from one of the apartments on the second floor all the way down to a secret chamber in the basement that would seal off. Then he also wanted a large room in his own personal apartment that you would have to walk into and then there was a walk-in vault in that that was airtight with iron walls. Oh, why would you want that?

Also, how do you talk to the contractors about all of this? Don't worry about it. He also wanted gas jets throughout the entire building that would be controlled only in his personal office. So he had turned on gas and just gas you anywhere he wanted to. No one's going to notice that in the blueprint. No, he also, don't worry, we're going to get to that. He also wanted a large basement with secret storage chambers inside that would seal off. And like you said, your first thought is, how you gonna get this built, my guy, right? How you gonna do this?

Well, he wanted this all to be very practical from the sense of his murderous intentions, obviously. He needed easy ways of disposing of and hiding dead bodies. He was not willing to bend on any of this. This was his vision. But he also wanted this psychological aspect to it. Like he knew this was all there, but no one else was gonna know this was there.

He knew the gas jets would be there, but the gas wouldn't. And he loved the idea of this whole, like I know, but they don't kind of thing. And it all just fed into his desire to just fuck with people and also kill people. But he knew, like we do, that even though he wasn't willing to bend on any of this, he was making this happen, he knew that these curious design aspects maybe would draw a little suspicion for many architect, like you said, perhaps. So without

any kind of skill set in designer building, he actually began drawing up plans for the building himself. That's really crazy. Yeah, that's the thing that kills me with him. He's one of those people that you're like, you could have done something great if you just put your mind to it. Like, you weren't a brilliant guy, but you had a working, you had hard work ethic

when you put your fucking mind to it. But not for a good cause. But you put it to terrible causes. Exactly. And it's like this, like like you're learning a skill set yourself to do a simple thing. Which is cute. But you're accomplishing a skill set

to build a murder castle because you're scared someone will figure it out. What a wild fucking, like, this is a wild real. This is real too. Yes, this is real. Like, what? This is real. And what's, so there was a population boom in Chicago,

like I said at the time, people were moving over there, and it meant that there was going to be no shortage of labor. Like people were going to be wanting to work on these kind of things. But there was, again, still that problem that these workers were going to ask too many questions. So even though he had put together the blueprints and he was going to have somebody help him, he devised a strategy that would allow him to get the building constructed without any suspicions. The plan was he was going to constantly change the architects, buildings, laborers. None of them were going to be able to get a clear or complete picture of what was being built.

They wouldn't be able to ask any questions because they were only going to get bits and pieces of it. I feel like that's like, that's such a gamble to take. His whole life was a fucking gamble. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I. I know. I know. I. I know. I. I know. I. know. I. know. I. I. know. I. know. I. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. I. know. I. I. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. know. I. I. know. I. know. I. I feel like that's like, that's such a gamble to take. His whole life was a fucking gamble. I don't think he did was a gamble. I'm just thinking of like work we've had to do on the house and I'm like, wow, I can't imagine being like, okay, you finish that. Now, I'm going to call someone else. Yeah, like he just, and what he would do was he would just not pay the person and be like, fuck you, you're fired. But you can, and then just bring someone else in and be like, okay, start working on this. You're creating so many issues for yourself.

And they would just be more confused, really. Like they'd just be like, what? And not realize how weird all of this was together. And also due to the lack's inspection processes in Chicago at the time and the limited protections for laborers, he was gonna be able to get away with not really paying anybody. Like it really wasn't gonna be an issue.

Like you were saying, two people are so desperate for work that they're probably not asking that many questions. Exactly. They do get work. That's the other thing. He's banking on that. But it is a really, like, cunningly smart thing to do to one, start the blueprint process yourself

to make sure you get all those weird things in there. Right. Then higher architects have them work a little more on it than fire them before they're done. The higher another one to build off that other thing, fire that one. Bring in labors to start building this little extension, fire them when they're done with it. The higher another one to do that one, that way you're getting it piece mailed together,

and nobody can fully get a full picture of what's happening here. Maybe they know a shoot isn't there, but they're like, what's that shoot for? And you're like, I don't know garbage buy. It's just no one can really get into the like nitty gritty of what's happening. It's like you're giving everybody a little piece of the puzzle, but like... But nothing that they can jump off of. Exactly. Construction of the quote unquote murder castle, which he was calling the Holmes castle.

Yeah. Begin in the summer of 1889. Again, partially working from Holmes' own design blueprints and also working from plans partially developed by local architects, two of which were Charles Berger and Edward Galner. The labor and materials were gonna be from Etna Iron and Steel.

Holmes was ready to begin using this murder castle before it was even started though. Like he was like, let's go. Before the foundation had even been completed, he was already making plans to get this thing going. Early in the construction, he actually approached a brick layer named George Bowman. And he approached him with a very strange proposition.

I'm very vicious. A brick layer. Just doing his job. Yeah, I know about HHH. Homes and Bricks. Yeah. Now, Bowman later said, he asked me if I wouldn't like to make money easier than what I was doing. And of course, I told him yes. Yeah, who wouldn't?

And according to Bowman, he said, a few days later, he came over to me and pointing down into the basement said, you see that man down there? Well, that's my brother-in-law. And he's got no love for me, neither have I for him. Now, it would be the easiest matter for you to drop a stone on that fellow's head while you're working, and I'll give you $50 if you do it. What? $50. What? At the time. We're talking about you. I know. I gotta keep her memory going. That's a law. I'm like $50. That's it. For the back. For the murder of a man. It's honestly unknown what the purpose of this kill proposition was to be quite honest.

He probably just wanted to see that he could do it. That's a weak point. He wanted to either make money, oh, that's from some avenue by doing this. Or he was just honestly asking to see if Bowman was a guy he could trust. I think he was looking for a guy he could trust. But either way, Bowman quit

and never returned to the job, smart man. He was like, buy, no thank you. Trust me though, not everyone working the job site was so kind and willing to run away from this man. In April of 1889, Holmes met, excuse me, and it was in later than April in 1889. I had the wrong month. Holmes met a carpenter by the name of Benjamin Pitesel.

I think it's Pitesel. I think you're right. At first, Pitesel's job was to take care of the horses that were going to be used on the construction site. Because again, we're in the 1800s. But over time, he actually gained Holmes's trust a lot. Dund became like an assistant to Holmes, like a personal assistant. Pite Zell was a little like Holmes. He had a history of petty crimes, misdemeanors, kind of a nair d'oeil.

And eventually it all caught up to him. And he was arrested for passing bad checks in Indiana while he was still working for Holmes. That's a stand-up month. So Holmes actually bailed Pitezel out of jail. Yeah, that's his right hand. He paid the amount in bad checks, by the way. He bailed him out with bad checks. Failed the man sitting in jail for bad checks

out of jail with bad checks. The arms is nothing but a poet. Pitezel failed to return to Indiana for the trial. So now they were just like, now they, nothing can happen. They're like, we're out. They're like, it's easy and Beyonce on the run together.

They're thick as thieves together because now they're the boss and the assistant. It's like the assistant to the regional manager from the office. There you go. Now, after a year or two, the unpaid bills and the schemes and the lying and the fraud,

it started to catch up with homes. That'll happen. Unfortunately for the most part though, individual laborers, many of them were immigrants. They had no way of getting the money owed to them. That's so fun. And that sucks. He just got away with that.

But remember, he's using Etna Iron and Steel for the supplies. That's a major company who doesn't give a shit about your feelings. So they sued his ass. And when he didn't pay his debts, they were like, where fucking take in all this back dude? But when they sued him in the fall of 1889, he tried to use like usual bullshit tactics and excuses

that he did to get out of paying them. One thing he did was he changed the deed on the property to make it look like it was owned by his mother-in-law. Yeah. So he said he wasn't responsible for the debt because it wasn't her name. How do you just do that? He just did that. Like what?

For the most part? Like so literally, he had first registered that deed under false alias. Right, but that's a hurt. And then when he started getting in trouble, he just shifted it all into his mother-in-law's name. It was like, these are her deaths. I don't know what you're talking about. I love that.

And like, nobody was like, yeah, dude, like clearly you just did that. Yeah, that's the thing. Back then, you could do that easily. That's so crazy. You know, who's gonna catch ya? You know, you just like write her name in there. And you're like, there it is.

He just like spit on the previous writing rubbed off. Exactly. So for the most part, all his like legal shit was handled by his lawyer Edward Marr, who actually did manage to successfully like push off creditors for a while, but he was, and he was honestly his lawyer till he was like executed essentially.

Damn. And he did manage to help him out in this scenario. I think they just like kind of backed off a little bit because it was under her name. That was going to be an issue. But you wouldn't think this murder castle would be a, like you would think that this would be a very long process of building this thing.

It's huge. And with all this specific. It's complicated. It's an annoying, long project. There's huge. And with all this complicated. It's an annoying long project. There's all the constant turnover of workers and architects. There's legal troubles now associated with it. But the actual construction of the building happened really quickly. Really? It was literally like pretty much done by the end of 1889. Wow. Yeah. It's like a year. Or excuse me, it was done by 1890.

Okay. So like twoish years. Yeah. I think they were putting like finishing touches on it until 91, but it was essentially like livable at that point. Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham, the host of Wondries Podcast American Scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in U.S. history, presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our newest series, we look at the Kids for Cash Scandal, a story about corruption inside America's system of juvenile justice.

In Northeastern Pennsylvania, residents had begun noticing an alarming trend. Children were being sent away to jail in high numbers, and often for committing only minor offenses. The FBI began looking at two local judges, and when the full picture emerged, it made national headlines. The judges were earning a fortune, carrying out a brazen criminal scheme, one that would shatter the lives of countless children, and force a heated debate about punishment, an America's criminal justice system. Follow American scandal wherever you get your podcasts.

You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wonder App. Um, Holmes had already moved Merta, Lucy, and her mother, the one he had thrown the deeds into, into the large corner apartment on the second floor. I think that's how he was able to get away with doing these kind of things was he would then, don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. I'm handling it. Here's your beautiful penthouse.

Yeah, like here you go. It's like a Jada Essenthal. Look over there. Exactly. So, yeah, they all got to live on there. And a short time later, he sold the drugstore across the street, the original one that he got from Mrs. Holtin. In the new owner who bought it, he was like,

oh, like you're in love with here. You have no competition. There's no other drugstore. Like you're the only pharmacy like I'm telling you this place is going to be a booming. It's great. Like don't worry about it. And he was like, oh, great business, see you later. By, he turns around and opens a new drug store

on the first floor of the murder castle. What an actual douchebag. Yeah. But that's a perfect example of why you don't just have an agreement by word of mouth. He's such a dick. Yeah. Like he's just such a dick.

Yeah. He does things just to be a dick. Well, he's such a fucking dick. He gets hit. He really is. He loves it. Now, among the first few, because again, you don't know which one is his first murder victim. It's so crazy. But among the first, among them, in Chicago, was John Dubrai.

And it was actually one of his investors in the murder castle. It was a man that homes owed money to. Dubrai had actually arrived in Chicago to see the complete, completed construction of the castle and to get his money that he owed. This was on April 18th, 1891, because like I said, in 91 it was like Dunsky. Sure.

And he hadn't even entered the building when he actually dropped to the ground outside the pharmacy and began convulsing. Oh. According to Benjamin Nixon who was like, I think he was in the jewelry store on the first floor he might have even owned it, I think. He saw Holmes rush outside to Debrae's side

and quote, poor day dark liquid down Debrae's side and quote, poor, a dark liquid down Debrae's throat and he died immediately. Why? On the street. I wonder, so did would Holmes have anything to do with his convulsions beforehand? Or no idea. Or if it was just a happy accident

that he was able to pour something down his throat that would kill him instantly. Holy shit. I don't know. But Debris death may not, like, he didn't get any money from it, but he didn't lose any money either. Well, yeah, because he's gonna have to pay him.

Yeah, so he could have played. Get money out of it. And he would have had to pay a small fortune to him. I mean, he was an investor in the thing. That was a lot. He was essentially alone on the castle. Right. He didn't have to pay anymore. So he did get money out of it.. He was essentially alone on the castle. Right.

They didn't have to pay anymore. Right, so he did get money out of it. Yeah. Now, during the construction of the castle and into its first year, he was engaged in a lot of schemes, like little schemes, you know, like the snake oil salesman kind of schemes.

Like, he would sell mineral water to people and say, well, like, you're all the shit, but it was just vanilla and fused tap water. Sounds kind of good. He would con widows out of their pensions. You know, he was very into that. He's such a, like, low down fucking ass guy. He is a low down, just dirt bag. He really is.

I mean, he's capable of murder so obviously, but like, so low down, then every way though. The little, like, penny cut. On and out but like... He's so low down in every way, though. The little like petty kind of talk about. Like, widows at a pension. Yeah, I just want an elderly woman to beat him over the head with her purse. Yeah. But he was still very committed, but while doing these schemes, he was committed to his murder for profit idea.

That was his main thing. Right. And in 1891, shortly after everything was done, Holmes approached a woman who did his laundry, and he had a proposition. Four. Oh, God. And she was the laundryist for the actual castle. And she, I know.

I know. He would pay the one, he said, I'll pay you $6,000. That's a lot. Back then. He used $6,000 to take out a life insurance policy in the amount of $10,000. Which is even more.

And she was like, why the fuck would you pay me to do that? Like, I don't understand. Why would I do that? And he said, well, then after you die, I would make $4,000 profit on the investment. And in the meantime, you can spend the $6,000, however you want. You just get $6,000 free and clear. And this woman was really young. And her job as a laundress really didn't make her any money. So she was

going to absolutely agree to this. She was like, of course, I want $6,000 right now. Nothing is ever that good. Like he had her. But then he apparently leaned in close to her and softly said, don't be afraid of me. And if that was Thomas Shelby, sign me up. I will buy that life insurance. To see if he say that to people. No, but I just thought that's something that Thomas Shelby would absolutely do.

He has that vibe. I'm not afraid. But this is Herman Webster Muggett, who smells like scrotum. Exactly. So she immediately said something about him just, that was off, it scared me. And she was like, I am immediately decline the offer.

Anybody that says don't be afraid of me for out of the blue no reason, I'm afraid of. And I think he was trying to do the like, don't be afraid of me. Like, you know what I mean? Like, aren't I charming? Like, and like being so on my nose that like- But you're like, you actually are scary. Like, you know what I mean? Like, aren't I charming? Like, and like, being so on my nose that like, but you're like, you actually are scary.

Like, that's what I meant when I said, like, if time, if Killian Murphy is leaning in you and saying, don't be afraid of me, I'm like, I'm not. You know what, though, I would still be afraid. I would not. The sexy, hairy mother fucking styles could walk up to me and say, don't be afraid of me. And I'd be like, you know what, Harold,

that's been a good run. That's been a good fucking run. But Herman Webster Muget says that to me and I'm like, bye. I would run so far away. So that, this lady was like, absolutely not. He's just like, what is wrong with you? Yeah, he's trying some shit.

So it's like when people say, like, I don't bite, I'm like, yeah, I figured, because we're all humans here. Yeah, exactly. So in 1890, like the year before, after a long bidding and like crazy process, it was announced that the next world's Colombian exposition would be held in Chicago, and it was going to be held between May and October of 1893.

So this timing was supposed to coincide with the celebration of Christopher Columbus's arrival in North America. Holy shit. The world's exposition was a huge fair with all the fairer kutermonts. And it was held in and around Jackson Park. It was going to be celebrating the scientific and technological advancements of the modern world. It was like, I even think about. Very mustache twisty and bowler hat, wary,

and old sport kind of vibes. You know, like everyone's got a cane. Loves it. Yeah, it just feels right. Parasols in the end. Yeah, that would be just okay. Exactly. Boehler, Hatwery, and Old Sport kind of vibes, you know? Like everyone's got a cane. Love's it. Yeah, it just feels right. Parasols in the air. Yeah, that'd be just okay. Exactly.

The fair was going to be a massive spectacle. It was going to very much draw in hundreds of thousands of visitors to Chicago. Visitors, you said. It was going to be a huge, huge boom for the local economy. It was a huge win for them to get it here. And a huge win for Mr. Gage for Chicago. And Holmes, he was probably pretty psyched about tourists coming in like regular ones.

Like, you know, there was gonna be a lot of boom in the economy. That's good for everybody. But he was not one to waste opportunities that were just going to stroll into his life, especially if it involved bringing unsuspecting women into his orbit. Exactly. So he was like, well, this is even better. Like, this works for me. So,

so that's when Ned and Julia Connor arrived in Chicago. No. They were in need of work, a place to stay, and somebody they knew was like, you should check with this guy, HH Holmes. He's got a new building. I'm sure there's employment opportunities in it. There's also places to live. Like, he's a perfect guy to go to. And apparently, they were right

because he had a jewelry store on the first floor and he happened to need somebody to work there. It was crazy. Oh, wow. So Ned was hired like on the spot to work in that jewelry store and they ended up moving into an apartment in the Holmes castle. Mm.

Better still, Holmes was like, oh, Julia can work in the pharmacy with me. Oh God. And I can train her to keep the books. Like you guys just got two jobs in one, that's wild. And then Julia's sister Gertrude moved into the city a few months later and he was like, I'll employ her as well.

Wow, what a great guy. Such a nice guy. Oh, and that's so sad too. That they probably were like, wow, like, I'll employ her as well. Wow, what a great guy. Such a nice guy. Oh, and that's so sad too. Yeah, that they probably were like, wow, like how lucky are we? Yeah, and like what a kind guy. Right. He's just like ready to help people

who come into the city. Now, to Ned, things felt like, wow, we've been really struggling, and this is finally falling all into place. But he said that, but there was always something about H.H. Holmes that he said made him uncomfortable. Was it just in like it?

He was probably the smegma. He seemed overly interested and attentive to Julia and Gertrude. Yeah. I grossed him out, made him feel weird. I'm not feeling. He continued to feel some type of way about Holmes as they started to become better acquainted.

And he said, he kept noticing stranger and stranger behavior. He was just an odd guy. And he said, on one occasion, homes was like, I got something to show you Ned. And he was like, okay. And he showed him that large vault that he'd installed in his apartment. And he showed him another one in the basement. And he showed him one in the basement and said, Ned, step inside. No.

And Ned stepped inside and he closed the door. And before he closed the door, he said, I just want to show you how well this is soundproofed. Oh, my God. And so he shut the door and he said, I shut the door and put my ear to the crack, but could only hear a faint sound. And he was immediately worried and put off

by the fact that Holmes had made a point of showing him this weird secret vault and then demonstrating to him how it locks and how, by the way, Ned, no one will hear you in here. He let him out of it. But this was definitely a just so you know. This is where I can put you. We're moving out in two and a half minutes. Goodbye. Bye. Now over time, during this whole thing, because remember, homes is paying a lot of attention

to Julia, like it's getting weird. So things between Ned and Julia are becoming strained. Right, because she's kind of fallen for it. Julia being... Again, H.H. Homes is very charming. He's got it all. He's, these women are being told the world. They. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. to like it. And he later told reporters, I finally told her we could not go on that way. I told her that I told her on a certain day we would quit that she could go her way and I would go

mine. And when that day came, I did not go upstairs to our room but stayed downstairs and slept in the barber shop. Oh, that's so sad. So in the month's let followed this, Ned tried to get his relationship back on track. He was like, we were fine before. So in the months let followed this, Ned tried to get his relationship back on track. He was like, we were fine before. Right. This is ruining everything. This guy literally came in and just like took complete control over here. In Gertrude, her sister left the city a while later. So like she wasn't around anymore. So now it was Julia.

So Julia, and he was trying to fix it, but during this time, Holmes suddenly offered out of nowhere to sell Ned the pharmacy. What? On the first floor. He was like, I didn't even have like pharmacy experience. Well, and he was like,

I want you to own the store, like not be a pharmacist, but I want you to own the business. And of course, Ned is like, how you kidding me? And he's like, this is gonna be the thing that's gonna improve me

and Julia's relationship. I'm going to be a business owner. Like I'm going to take her attention. But unfortunately, the business made things worse because Holmes had sold the to him knowing he hadn't paid a fucking dime to any of his creditors. And now those debts, sorry Ned, those are your debts now. So now not only is he struggling to keep this thing afloat, but he's now having creditors coming after him for money. Oh, shit dude. That he didn't do. No. Now, the issues between Ned and Julia were made way worse by the fact that Julia had actually given birth to a daughter named Pearl. Pearl. So any divorce would include a pretty unpleasant custody agreement between the two of them,

so it was getting the discord, it's just getting worse and worse. Very contentious. But things were not improving between them. The pharmacy was being a huge money pit and a big struggle on both of their lives. So Ned told Holmes, I took a job with a jewelry company in downtown Chicago. I don't want the pharmacy, I want out. And a short time after he'd left the castle,

Ned made one final attempt to try things, to make things work with Julia, but by then she was engaged in a full affair with Holmes. Very uninterested in Ned. Julia refused to get back together and Ned packed up his things and moved to Gilman, Illinois, and he filed for divorce, and he signaled his intent to gain custody of Pearl.

I hope he did. Keep hoping that. So by the fall, why you say that to me? So by the fall, Holmes had moved to Merta and Lucy. Yeah, his wife and child. You met, remember. Yeah, they were, were they living, sorry. Were they in his apartment or were they in the,

they were in his apartment? They were in his apartment. Remember, he's also married to Clara still. Yep, Ann Merta. And he's also having an affair with Julia. Yeah. So how does he even keep all that in straight? Yep.

So we'll do where he moved Merta and Lucy, his wife and child, into a house several miles away. Okay. In downtown Chicago, and he was just spending most of his time at the castle, where Merta didn't know it, but he was having a full blown affair with Julia Connor. So this affair was super intense, like very passionate, very intense. And Holmes kept telling her,

I'm going to marry you. I'm going to marry you. And it's like, my guy, you're married to two other women. You're not even supposed to be married to the woman you're married to. At this point. And Julia knows that he's married. And it's like, if he's telling you he's going to marry you,

do you really think that means that much to him? No. So he's constantly promising he's going to marry her. But once Ned left Chicago, suddenly it all, woo, woo, woo, woo, woo. Yeah, because it's not as exciting. Yeah, all the sudden he'd lost interest. The risk of getting caught was gone.

There was really no competition. There wasn't competition. There wasn't competition anymore. Right. And he's uninterested no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition.

There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition.

There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition.

There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no competition. There was no now you have to marry me. He doesn't think so. Holmes was like, okay. And then he was like, yeah, I guess I do have to marry you.

So he was like, yep, I'll marry you, but on one condition. She was like, what is that? And he said, you're gonna get an abortion. Oh my God. And he said, and I'm gonna perform it. Oh God. Oh no.

Julia reluctantly agreed. And several weeks later, she was on an operating table that he had put together in one of the empty apartments on the second floor of the castle. That's dirty. She's on the table. He poured chloroform onto a rag and held it to her mouth and nose to sedate her. But he should have only had to do that for like a second. Instead, he just held it on there, held it into place, and continuously dripped more and more chloroform onto the rag while it was on her face. She struggled to get off and tried to fight him off.

But after several minutes of this horrific torture, he felt for a pulse and she was gone, as well as the unborn child. Wow. Wilds that he could do that to a woman carrying his child, too. Yeah, it gets worse Oh, he then walked into Pearls bedroom. Oh, no, and did the exact same thing to Pearl A child who was likely about five or six. Oh my god. Oh, I hate him so much. Or maybe not even she better been like four. Oh my God.

Now, once everybody was dead, Holmes contacted a man named Charles Chappell, who Holmes knew was a trained articulator. What is that? A person trained in stripping the flesh from human bodies and preparation for medical instructions. We should never ask. Yeah. He'd make them into an articulated skeleton, essentially.

Great. Charles Chapell asked absolutely no questions when he was led to an empty apartment in the castle where he dead body was. He knew Holmes was a doctor and he just kind of accepted the claim that he had been doing some kind of dissection and he wanted this body cleaned.

Oh, yeah, yeah. So we offered him $36 to clean the body, make a fully articulated skeleton and skull, and he was like, sure. So chapel returned the body afterwards, and he home sold her skeleton to the Hainman Medical College in Chicago. No one knows what happened to Pearl, but when investigators excavated the basement of the castle, they did find the bones of a child's between the what they think is the ages of four to 10 years old.

So it could have been her. Sweet Pearl. Now, in the days after this, Julia's neighbors, Mr. and Mrs. John Crow, who lived in the castle, asked about her in Pearl, where did she go? Where did they suddenly disappear? And no one else in the building had asked about her in Pearl, where did she go? Where did they suddenly disappear?

And no one else in the building had seen them for days. And finally, they caught up with Holmes and they were like, what happened? And he was like, oh, Julian Pearl left early for a plan trip to Davenport, Iowa. Obviously, like you didn't she tell you? And they were like, I don't know about that, but they were like, okay, I know about that, but they're like,

okay, I guess we have to just accept this explanation. Right. And it was only after his arrest that they learned that Julia had never gone to Davenport. They didn't learn until after he was arrested. And then imagine like obviously they have no reason to. Yeah. What do they do to make you feel? So in January 1892, a new family moved into the Conor's Old Department, the Julian Ned Conor's apartment and Pearl. And when they arrived in to move in, they found it completely the way it was. The dishes were still out on the table. Pearl's clothes were laid out on a chair. Oh my God.

It was like they had just walked out one afternoon and never returned. Which is what happened. What exactly would happen, right? Holmes explained to them that Julia, the person who had lived here before, her sister had become ill a few weeks earlier, and she and Pearl had had to leave right away to tend to her.

And according to Holmes, there was no need to pack up their belongings, as Julian Pearl were well provided for and would not be coming back. I'd be like, yeah, that's great, but like, you're the landlord. You should have heard this place to clean out of us all. Yeah, like, what the fuck? Like, I have to just like, take all this shit out of here now and move mine in. Yeah.

Now, he gave a different version of this story to others when they asked, because of course, he's giving three different things about what happened to Julia and Pearl. It's also like, maybe you should stick with the same story, brother. Yeah. I mean, glad you didn't, but.

Yeah, when others asked, he claimed that Julia had briefly come back in early January to settle up rent, she'd owed him. And at that time, quote, announced not only to me, but to her neighbors and friends that she was going away. Yeah, she didn't say that to anybody, though. But apparently, he knew ahead of time that Julia had mentioned to others, that she had plans to visit her sister in Iowa at some point.

So the story would seem legit. He had planned this all out. He also vehemently denied any claims or rumors that he had any kind of inappropriate sexual relationship with Julia. They were just friends. What are you talking about? Yeah, for sure. Even though like it was very clear, like very, very clear, like Ned knew, everybody knew.

But he later said, quote, that she is a woman of quick temper and perhaps not always a good disposition, maybe true. But that any of her friends and relatives will believe her to be an amoral woman or one who would be a party to a criminal act. I do not think. Okay, Jan. So that happened. In the spring of 1892, Benjamin Pitezel, his assistant there.

About this fuck. He traveled to Dwight, Illinois, which is a small village about 25 miles from Chicago. I found this interesting because immediately for some reason, I thought of him, like I made the little quip about him being like assistant to the regional manager. Yeah, and then Dwight. And then Dwight, Illinois. That is funny. But he went there because he was getting treatment for alcoholism.

Ben was. Benjamin, yeah. He was doing that at the Keely Institute. And while he was there receiving treatment, he met a young woman named Emily N. Cigrand. And at that time, she was working as a stenographer for the Institute. Was this a stenographer again? The like type her person. Right, thank you.

Takes a transcript. Yep, yep, yep. And Pite Zell was just taken by her beauty. Oh, oh. Like he saw her just like, oh my god. So when he returned home to Chicago after the treatment, he told Holmes all about this magnificent, beautiful young woman.

Girl, shut your mouth. Oh, he did this on purpose. He knew that Holmes would be seriously interested as he was doing his job as an assistant. I found you a pretty young thing. But he's, oh, I, here I am thinking that, like he's in love with this. Oh, no, he said she's just beautiful.

You should kill it. Hey, she's this beautiful young woman you would probably like her. Oh my God. So he knew that he would be very interested in this and he was right. He loved the idea of a beautiful woman almost as much as he loved the idea

of killing a beautiful woman. So Holmes wrote to Emma line and based only on Pite Sel's description, he wrote to her. Like wow. He heard Pite Sel's description, and he was like, got it right to this girl. Very King Henry VIII. Very much.

And he offered her a job at twice the salary she was making now as a stenographer at the Keely Institute. So of course she was like, uh, yeah, like twice the salary. And he had only one lit sign up for that. So she arrives in Chicago, she finds a room at a boarding house and she begins work as Holmes' assistant with the ABC copying company, which is one of his sham businesses that was operating on the first floor. He had a shit ton of those. He had like a closing company. Yeah, right.

And he had like a glass-bending business down there that was a sham too. But the land lady of the boarding house she was staying at called Segrand, a very pretty girl and was a favorite among the borders. Though she seldom went out with any of the young men. So she's known very much so as a beautiful woman. But apparently, she immediately liked Holmes.

He was all over her, praising her constantly, spoiling her with attention and gifts. And the land lady later said, she was greatly infatuated with Holmes and never ceased talking about him. I did not like him. He could not look one in the face. To me, this signal is a little

bit of a difference to the he didn't look you in the eyes thing. He wouldn't even look you in the face. Yeah. Like this guy, there is a little, there's something there. There is. Like that's different than the Strabid-Mis kind of situation where he can't like focus on your eyes. Exactly. He wasn't even looking you in the face. It's also like all these women are taken with him. The women that are taken with him work beneath him. Exactly. So it's that whole power. Man and power kind of, but the women who are like,

I don't know, I always thought he was gonna murder some. Yeah, they're the ones that are like doing their own thing and that is your shit. Right. And it wasn't long until he shamed his way into a romantic relationship with poor Emily. Now, other employees noticed like at the castle and the different businesses,

they noticed and everyone around them knew something was going on. One of Holmes' castle tenants, Dr. Maurice Lawrence, told the inter-ocean, we felt that she was, she was to be more pity than blamed. He was apparently very kind to her, always buying flowers and presents for her and taking her to the theater and places of entertainment. They always, they nearly always ate their meals together in his office, having them sent up from the restaurant on the first floor. So they're living this like beautiful life of eating like lunches together and buying

or things, taking her out, very much like just showering her. I'd like to remind you, he is married to Clara. He is also married to Murder. He has a child Lucy. He was carrying on a fair with a woman named Julia who had a child named Pearl who was also pregnant with his child. He murdered Julia and that child and Pearl. And is still married to Murder and Clara.

And Clara has the son with him, George. Robert. Robert, why did I say George? Robert, actually it's Robert. I could George. Robert. Robert, why did I say George? It's like, Robert, actually, it's Robert. It's Robert, but I can try. Yeah, absolutely. No, which is just like, what the fuck? So at this point, he would have had the re-children. At this point, he would have had the re-children.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Or no, he would have had two children, because Pearl was an aunties. But she was pregnant, Julia. Yeah, but he had just says Robert. And Lucy. Oh, and Lucy. Yes, you're right. You're correct. So he's Robert, Lucy, and he would just says Robert and Lucy. Oh, and Lucy. Yes, you're right. You're correct.

Yeah. So he's Robert Lucy and he would have had Julia's child. So yeah, he would have had you. And he would have had the step-tie, yeah, technically. Absolutely. What a fucking asshole. Actual piece of shit.

In murder's just a cross town. Yeah, like a few miles away. Yeah, and he's carrying on this like very public affair. And she has no idea. And according to the everything she doesn't know. OK. And if she did, she was like, fuck you. Now, in the winter of 1892, Emmeline

told several people she would be returning to Lafayette, Indiana, to visit her parents for a few weeks before Christmas. Now, according to her cousin, Dr. BJ Sigrand, who'd visited with her very shortly before she was scheduled to leave, he said, Ms. Segrand was changing her feelings towards homes. Sounds like something happened that turned her off. Don't know what. Maybe he leaned in and said, don't be afraid of me.

Don't be afraid of me, because then several days passed. And no one in Inglewood had seen or heard from Emily Instagram. No. When the wife of Dr. Maurice Lawrence, the tenant in the castle, who had that other quote, asked at like about her, two homes, he simply said, quote, oh, she's gone away to get married. Oh, what? This obviously was a little weird because she'd never dated anyone but him. It was pretty clear that they were in a relationship and Emily never mentioned leaving early

and no one ever heard of Emily being engaged to someone else. Also, she said that she was very put off about how he spoke about it. He was very anxious appearing. He couldn't look at her when he said it. He was very monotone. He didn't want to talk too much about it. And now this is the second woman who's just up to love him so much. So, especially.

Yeah. And to her, it felt like he was hiding something and scared it was going to come out if he said too much. Yeah. Like, he was really hiding something here. And so the next day, she notices that she sees homes and two of his assistants carrying a heavy trunk out of the castle and loading it down to a wagon.

One day after that, homes left Chicago for the house in Wilmot where Merta and Lucy lived, I remember Merta's parents, because remember, he's married with a child two times over. I just want to keep reminding you that. He went to his wife's house. When he returned a few days later, he made a point of showing Mrs. Lawrence, in particular, who had asked about. Yep. Emelene, he showed her an envelope that he'd got

containing cards announcing Emelene's supposed wedding to Robert Phelps on December 7, 1892. As if she would send him a wedding invitation or announcement. Well, a few weeks later, Emelene's trunk arrived at her parents' house in Indiana. It had all her clothes, all her belongings that she had taken with her when she left for that job. And according to Eric Larson's book, her parents hoped that she'd sent the trunk trunk because she must now be marrying a wealthy man and she doesn't need all this old stuff. So she's sending it back to us. But her cousin BJ pointed out that Emily

was in the habit of writing her parents two or three times a week. Right. If that was the case, she definitely would have written and she had not written. So you think the big trunk was all her things that they moved out? Oh no, I think she was in that big trunk. And they just put it up her along the way. I think she... So whatever the case, the they just spoke to her along the way. I think she... So whatever the case, the trunk arrived, that was the last time that her family got anything from her. Now, according to Holmes' confession later,

Emilyine, quote, had become almost indispensable in my office work. And the idea of losing her to an unknown fiance and Dwight was unacceptable. So he stuck with that. So he said, I endeavored upon several occasions to take the life of the young man. And failing in this, I finally resolved that I would kill her instead.

I don't think so. So he claimed he lured Emma line into the large vault in his office and closed the door, causing her, quote, to suffer the tortures of a slow and lingering death. Jesus Christ. What is worse about this is it's very likely true.

Yeah, I believe it. Because he tested it out with Ned. The name Phelps, which is supposedly her fiance's name, was a known alias of Benjamin Pytzel, which he was using around the time he would have met Emma line at the Keely Institute. Oh, shit. So it felt so existed.

And then people would have been like, Oh, yeah, like she did talk to a guy named Phelps. Now, two on January 2nd, after she disappeared in 93, Holmes asked Charles Chapelle for help. And do you remember Charles Chapelle is the articulator? Uh-huh. And he said Holmes sent him a trunk, containing a young woman's body to be stripped of flesh and articulated. Uhhh. Now a few weeks later, the LaSalle Medical College of Chicago received a delivery

of a nicely articulated skeleton. Oh no. When police searched the castle after he was arrested, inside that large vault that he said he put her in, they found a woman's footprint in the enamel on the wall, and it was made with so much force that it was unable to be wiped off. Oh my God. She was trying to escape and like kick her way out of there.

So it was 100% true. So brutal. So brutal. And he was selling there articulated skeletons to medical colleges. Those medical colleges must have been haunted as fuck. What the fuck? And that is where we are going to end for part two. I didn't see that coming.

You are so. Because we're going to get some more. Trust we have a lot more coming and it's a lot. So we're going to, and I want to look into the Jack the Ripper thing a little more for part three. I wanna like to see if I can get into that a little more. Yeah. So hang tight. Okay.

But he's just gotten started. And he's already this bad. So awesome. Yep. So that is part two of HH Homes. We have the murder castle being built. We have it being in full operation so far. We haven't seen the little macabre, all the macabre elements being used. We've seen that vault being used quite a bit.

Yeah. We have seen that a lot. Yeah. But there's, yeah. There's a lot that's about to happen. And I'd like you guys to hang tight. And I'm scared about the bricks of it all. Just hold on to your butts. You know, okay, dokey-smoking. Well, we love ya and we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it. Weird!

You already know the drill. You don't, don't. Do you just... Don't ever keep it down. Don't move to Chicago or anywhere if that matter and build a murder castle. Don't do it. Build a haunted castle. Hey, Prime members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music.

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