Morbid - Episode 459: H.H. Holmes Part 3

Episode Date: May 15, 2023

In Part 3 H.H. Holmes isn't done being adulterous and he's taking evil to another level. He's conning wives left and right and then takes to arson to earn a quick buck. Today, we go deeper into the design of his "murder castle" while also watching this con man/killer descend further into madness. What will be his undoing? Stay tuned...See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Mmm. Uh, this story is so, like, I'm just getting right into, like, how crazy it is, because I can't stop on stuff. Rocking to the rhythm. It's similar to Jack the Ripper, but not at all. Yeah, we know what I mean. Like it's similar. No, I know what you mean.

Similar in the sense that there is just so much. And there's so many little things that you just need to, they need to double check because like so many different stories were told and newspapers ran with certain things. And like he told so many different stories and you know, investigators were wrong on certain things. So you told so many different stories and you know investigators are wrong on certain things so you have to like keep checking things

to be like did that happen or did that happen or what happened. Very confusing. He has many, many wives. He has many, many business scams. He has many, many states in which he does these things. It's like a TLC show kind of. He is just so much. So I figured I don't wanna just like crush all the information into as little episodes as possible. I'd rather have more episodes being able to

coherently discuss what's going on so that we can move on to the next one knowing where we are. Yeah. So it gets it like a part four, I think we're gonna get into, you know, the business associate, his Benjamin. It's, I've heard it two ways,

it's Pytzel. Pytzel or Pytzel. I like Pytzel. Pytzel sounds right to me. Yeah. But he, that his whole thing with his family, that's what we're gonna talk about in part four. When we get to that, it's very confusing, very intense.

So I just wanted to give that its own little thing. Okay. And I think in part four, we're also going to talk about because I was thinking about it more, that the theories that he is Jack the Ripper. I'm excited to talk about that, because I know you don't think so. I don't think he was,

but I think some of the theories are very compelling and I understand why it's still a theory. I get it. So I want to go a little further into those, which means I want to give a little more time to dive into some like ship manifests and some other things to try to see because he wasn't in the UK at a time.

You love a ship manifest. I love a ship manifest. Where do you go to find them on um ancestry.com you can find them. Oh yeah. And it's just got a lot of cool shit like it does like off-shoot things that you can do. Yeah you can find marriage and that's certificates. You can find births. Yeah. You know divorces. In fact ancestry has been and we're not like we're not sponsored byestry. This is literally just me being like a sponsor. Yeah, because I use it a lot.

I do too. So Ancestry is good for this. When I've been using it a lot, because I've been trying to find records of divorces and marriages. Right. Just to like, one of the things with Holmes is he married people,

but he didn't always legally married people. So he was married, you don't know how many he was married to legally and how many he wasn't always legally married people. So he was married, you don't know how many, he was married too legally and how many he wasn't, it was wild. But when we last left you, we had talked about Emily and Segrant, the secretary that he had hired on, the one that Benjamin, his assistant there,

had found so remarkably beautiful and that told Mom's about. He had definitely murdered her. Yeah. And we knew that because he claimed that she went and got married to a guy named Phelps. Phelps was a known alias of Benjamin Pytzel. She disappeared and the guy that he had hired before to articulate skeletons for him,

he had come and picked up a trunk. Yeah, you know, like not so at all. Yeah. Lots of other things, you know, the LaSalle Medical College of Chicago received a delivery of a nicely articulated skeleton right after this. Yeah, not at all related. Yeah, and they found that footprint, a woman's footprint in that airtight vault that he had built in his castle. And it was so, it was made with so much force in the wall that they said they couldn't even wipe it off.

She was trying to get out of there. That part just like stuck with me. That's fucking terrifying. Yeah. So that's where we had last left you. And he's also still married to Clara. And he's still married to murder. Okay.

So he still has Robert, his young son. He still has Lucy, his young daughter, and he has murdered several people. Fantastic. So yeah, so it's great. Now, if you know the story of H.H. Holmes, I think we mentioned this before, you definitely have heard of the world's fair, and that being inextricably linked together. I was waiting for you to bring it up, and I kept wanting to ask last episode, and I was

like, don't do it, she'll get there. Well, that's the thing. So the last episode I mentioned the world's Colombian exposition. Yeah. That's the same as the world's fair. Oh, I'm going to call it the world's fair from now on, but they are the same thing. They're just called those things interchangeably. But yeah, they are linked. A lot of people think that he made this castle in response to the World Fair coming because it was going to be such an easy thing. He didn't make it in response to it. He was planning to do it all along.

It just helped him out. Yeah, but for him, there was something he did do in response to the World Fair coming to Chicago. And after it had been announced, he decided to add a third floor to his murder castle. Ah. Now, in the enthusiasm and excitement for the opening of the fair, a lot of business men around the area, they kind of like raced to make a ton of sales as possible. Like,

this was their time. They were going to go. They didn't do a lot of credit checking. They didn't do a lot of background checking. They just wanted to make these sales. Holmes was really able to use this to his advantage when he was making his castle because he got a ton of furniture, a ton of fixtures, and he could do it all without any intention of actually paying. He just did it with credit. And he did this using the name HS Campbell by most accounts.

So by the time construction of the third floor was finished, that was around the end of 1892, early 1893. Creditors were catching on. And they started filing lawsuits against him, basically for theft, because he had stolen that stuff. And it got so bad that the sheriff and other creditors actually descended upon the castle, demanding payment, or they wanted all their items back.

But when they got there, homes was like, I don't know what you're talking about. Come in, I don't have any of that stuff, you liars. What? He had sold off all the furniture, or he hid them all in the secret chambers in the castle, basically being like, you can't prove anything. Oh shit.

Like literally just being like those didn't even exist. What are you talking about? And like the mind is not even HS. Yeah, like my name is not HS Campbell. I am H H H homes. You're looking for the wrong guy. Yeah, like how dare you? Holy canally.

So those secret chambers were more than just murder chambers. They were also a something where he could store his scams, essentially. Scam chambers. Scam chambers. Now, what he did was he essentially turned the second floor. The third floor became more the apartments. And the third, the second floor, it came more and more macabre and used as that really scary part of the castle.

The Chicago Tribune later, the way they described this, I was like, I have to bring this in. I found on newspaper.com, my favorite place. They wrote, oh, what a queer house it was. In all America, there was none other, none other like it. It's chimney stuck out or chimney should never stick out. It's stairways ended nowhere in particular. Winding passages brought the uninitiated with a frightful jerk back to where they had started from. There were doors that had, there were rooms that had no doors. There were doors that had no rooms. A mysterious house it was indeed, a crooked house,

a reflex of the builder's own distorted mind. In that house, a curved dark and eerie deeds. Ooh, it sounds like the Winchester mystery house. Thank you. That's literally what he was doing. He did the same kind of thing where you would open a door and it would just fall down to the basement. Or you would, there was, like, I'm gonna bring up right now, I took a screenshot of the floor plans of the house

that they had laid out, and especially the second floor. And just some of the things that they had written in this newspaper article for what these things were. Lots of things labeled secret rooms. Mysterious closed room was one of them. Dummy elevator for lowering bodies. Sealed room all bricked in. Trap lead down to secret chamber.

The hanging secret chamber. Was that like a hanging room or that's where he hanged? I have no idea. It's just labeled the hanging secret chamber. It was not like a hanging room, or that's where he hanged people. I have no idea. It's just labeled the hanging secret chamber. No, thank you. One is called the blind room. One is called the dark room. Asphyxiation chamber.

No light with gas connectors. Oh my God. So he had an actual room that was like the gas chamber. Now, there was one called the death shaft, where he would throw people down alive. Oh! There were things called the maze. Room of the three corpses one was called.

Oki-doki. The black closet. Oh, I don't like that. Yep. Another secret chamber. It's literally labeled another secret chamber. One room is called the one. Another one. Another one is called the five door room. There's a room with five doors. No, that's too many doors.

Yeah, and then in the in the front of it is just like waiting room, reception room. For me, it's the black closet. The black closet. I think that's where I would hate the most. Well, I'd hate it all the most. This one, the steel-bound chamber. And those are those airtight chambers that he would have, which on the outside, it looked like a regular door. Sure. Like, and you would open the door,

and then there was a steel door there, and he would open that door, shove you in, shut that steel door, and then he would just shut the regular door and lock it, and no one would hear you. No. No one would think twice about it. They'd walk past that door while you were slowly suffocating in there and they would never know it. My God. No one would ever know. You're sitting there looking at a fucking crazy footprint, like clearly knowing somebody tried to bust out of here and it didn't work.

Exactly. And you have to wonder, like, did he leave people in there? I'm sure he did. And then put somebody else in there. Probably. But a lot of the bones were found in the basement. So I'm assuming he used the shafts to just discharge them in. Because a lot of the times he would bring them in there under the guise of like check out this cool chamber.

Right, like no one can hear you in here. And then he'd be like, boop, and he'd just lock you in. Oh my God. Was he a big guy? He was not a big guy. No. He was five foot eight. So a couple of that's like, so pretty normal.

You know, just like a normal sized guy. Yeah. That's why he had to use a lot of mind games and a lot of scams. Right. Because he had to use powerful persons. Yeah, he wasn't using a lot of force to do these things, especially with like other men. Even with women, he really wasn't. Yeah. Sometimes he was, but mostly he tried to incapacitate them first in some way. But the floor plan just really shows you the thought process behind this house.

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when you save money with Shipstation. Go to shipstation.com and use code morbid today, and sign up for your free 60-day trial, that shipstation. Go to shipstation.com and use code morbid today and sign up for your free 60-day trial. That shipstation.com code morbid. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Oh my god, I spend so much time on other people. I feel like that I'm really feeling that way this week. I need to talk to my actual therapist. I really do. Because it is so easy to get caught up in what everybody else needs from you

and never take a moment to think about yourself and what you need. Ash, what do you need, girlfriend? A lot. But you know what, when we spend all of our time giving, it can leave us feeling stretched thin and burned out. I've so been feeling that way lately.

But therapy can give you the tools to find more balance in your life so that you can keep supporting others without leaving yourself behind. That's something I work on in therapy all the time because as a people, please, I'm always trying to make everybody else's life easier, but it kind of complicates my own life.

And my therapist is like, hey, Ash, check in with yourself. And then I do. And I'm starting to get better at it, thanks to my therapist and therapy. So if you are thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. It's entirely online designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out

a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists any time for no additional charge. Find more balance with better help. Visit betterhelp.com slash morbid today to get 10% off your first month. That's better help, h-e-l-p-d.com slash morbid. So unfortunately, so the world fair is here. We just had him. He just murdered Sagan, but he's gotten away with it. And Holmes's next victim, Minnie Williams, unfortunately, came right to him. Oh, no. She was actually someone he'd met years earlier, while he was on a brief trip to Boston, Massachusetts. No, get out of here.

I know, I was like, bye. I don't want you. Many Williams was actually born in Mississippi, but shortly after she was born, both her parents were killed. Oh, gosh. So she and her sister Nanny and her brother were orphaned. Mm-hmm.

She's also referred to as Nettie, Nanny, and Nettie. Nettie is one of my favorite names. Really? I think Nettie is the cutest name. Oh, that's funny. I like that name too. It's cute. And like sometimes you'll see her referred to as Annie

in like some newspapers. I think they just removed the end. Yeah. But Nanny or Nettie, basically, I'm going to call her Nanny because that's what I saw mostly. Sure They were split up when the parents died and ended up being kind of shuttled around to a few guardians over the years But many they all found ended up finding permanent places and many found a permanent home and guardian with an uncle in Texas The uncle treated her very well was was like a very kind guardian, a very good guardian,

ended up enrolling her in the Boston Academy of Elecution in 1886, which is a finishing school for high class ladies. Ho, ho. Unfortunately not very long after arriving in Boston, her uncle slash guardian passed away. Oh, God, she's been through. Yeah. And in doing so, he left her in a state valued at $50,000 to $100,000, which was $1.5 to $3 million now. Well, shit. Yeah. So she inherited property as well on top of that estate. She inherited a property in Fort Worth, Texas as well. Shit. So she was like

set up at this point. Yeah. She was. And I found through ancestry.com that her uncle was reverend WC black of New Orleans and he was the editor of the Methodist Christian advocate, which is like a newspaper. So that's just that fun. I because I want to know who he was. So who is this man? Yeah. But apparently he was a great guardian. So cool.

But it was at a party in Boston while she was there in finishing school. And it was thrown by one of Boston while she was there in finishing school. And it was thrown by one of the city's big fancy leading families. You know, I love that. In the late 1880s that Holmes met many Williams. No, thank you. Because of course, he was pretending

to be very high class himself. I just have to ask before you got too far into it, I feel like is this, in the AHS, the one that the maid was based off of? American or a story? American or a story? American or a story? American or a story? American or a story?

American or a story? American or a story? American or a story? American or a story? American or a story? American or a story? American or a story? American or a story?

American or a story? American or a story? American or a story? American or a story? American or a story? American or a story? American or a story? American or a story? American or a story? American or a story? American or a story? American or a story? American or a story? Yeah, but I don't I don't think many was huh, because she wasn't a maid

Okay, so she like she was like a like a high society. Yeah, exactly. So um no, it's it sounds familiar But maybe I've just heard her story. I'm sure little little bits and pieces of that definitely probably got sprinkled in there Yeah, but when he met a when she met H. H. Holmes at this party for like fancy people Uh, in the late 1880s, he introduced himself as Harry Gordon. That's not your name. It's not. Now many herself was very charming. She was essentially a socialite, a search in newspapers back then in Boston shows that she was in attendance at a lot of big parties in events. Hell yeah, girl. She was always listed among the guests. Hinkies up, baby. There you go. And she was an actress and very interested in the theater.

She was a very interesting person, but she wasn't his type. Physically, she was not his type. She wasn't, according to newspaper reports, she wasn't the classic beauty of the time, which is generally what homes went for. Okay. She was very shallow.

He would usually go for like only pretty ladies. Sure. That classically pretty for. Okay. It was very shallow. He would usually go for only pretty ladies. Sure. That classically pretty ladies. Right. I mean, she was described, which I think is mean, because there's photos of her, and I think she is very pretty. I'm gonna look her up.

She was described as plain. That's fucked. And they literally know. Well, they literally wrote that she had full cheeks. And I was like, I'm sorry. What should your cheeks be? I was gonna say you mean like how people should have fillers into their cheeks to look like? I'm like also like, what should cheeks be? Like, I

feel like that, like, should they be sunken in? I wonder if that's not back then. Did they want them to be sunken? Because that's a thing. We're talking about like a standard of beauty that is definitely different than what we are doing today. 100%. And that's what they're talking about, though when they were mentioning that she was not a classic beauty, she was apparently not fitting into the beauty standards of that time. Oh, I think she was really pretty. Right, she was so cute. Yeah, she looks sassy. She does look sassy.

And she has great hair. She does. Now, despite the fact that she wasn't exactly his type, Holmes gave many a lot of attention. She got money. Exactly. He took a very perceived liking to her and showed her his interest. Anytime he came back into Boston for a quote-unquote business, he lavished her with attention.

He would take her to dinners, he would take her to the theater, he would extend his stays longer just to spend more time with her. He acted like he was in love with her. It seemed like he was straight up courting her. Yeah. And she was the riled. Of course. She very much loved him.

Unfortunately, knowing she wasn't his normal type and knowing how hard he went at her, it's very likely he was drawn to her massive inheritance. Yeah. Remember, he's a monster, he has no feelings, so he definitely didn't love her. He courted her for. Remember, he's a monster, he has no feelings, so he definitely didn't love her. He courted her for some time, but after a while, he just became bored, and he started making

the visits less and less, and then he just ghosted her completely and stopped visiting at all, or communicating to her. I wish that was the end of it. I hate the heartbreak for her, but then we're better off. You're better off, exactly. And she was devastated. She had really fallen for him. She felt like he was the onebreak for her, but then we're better off. You're better off, exactly. And she was devastated. She had really fallen for him.

She felt like he was the one who got away, like ghosted her. Yeah, totally ghosted her. That's fucked. Wow, even the fuck boys in the 1800s, ladies. Truly, he was a fucked boy. Ladies and gents. Exactly. My goodness.

Now, follow when she graduated from the Boston Academy of Elecution. Oh, imagine. Many moved from Boston to Denver, Colorado. And there, she tried to use some of her inheritance to start up her own theater company. Oh, cool. Yeah, she was like, fuck that.

I'm gonna, I love the theater. I'm gonna start my own. Doing the damn thing. Unfortunately, it didn't really work out. She ended up losing like a lot of money in the process. She gave it a shot though. Yeah, you know, you gotta shoot your shot. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take.

There you go. Michael Scott. Michael Scott. Through all of that though, she could not stop thinking about Harry Gordon. You can never get your mind off the last man's that goes to you. No, and he had loved bombed her.

He had showered her with attention, with affection, with gifts, with dates, with everything. He enacted like he was courting her to lead up to a proposal. That's what he had. And in that time period, that's huge. You court to lead up to a proposal. There is not like this, it's not like now where you're like, I don't know, maybe we'll go on a third date.

It's like, we're talking. Yeah, like we're talking. We're talking to each other. Whatever the fuck that is. It's like back then, you're courting and there's an expected end to this. And the end to this is we're getting married. Dude, they should go back to that.

Just like, I'm not gonna court you unless we're getting married. Honestly, like girls, like girls gaze, they is, let's start that. Yeah, don't waste your time. Like just it's end game. Are you planning to get married someday? No, next.

Next, yeah. Like if that's what you're looking for. Exactly. So as far as many knew at this point, Harry was living in Chicago. Chicago was obviously getting a lot of news around and newspapers and everything because of the world's fair being hosted there.

So to many, she was like, you know what? Chicago does sound pretty exciting. And the world's fair would be like a lot of opportunities for me, like, you know, there's a lot of things there, there's a lot of people, there's connections. You know, she's like also Harry is there, the love of my life. She knows he's there.

She knows he's there. So she's like, I don't know, it kind of feels like the universe is calling me there. So in February of 1893, she decided she was packing up and moving to Chicago. She said, let's go. And on her way there, she was just determined. She was like, I'm gonna reconnect with Harry.

Oh, baby. Now, Minnie settled on Chicago's north side when she arrived and she took a job immediately as a stenographer for a local law firm. But almost immediately, she did get in contact with H.A. Chomes. Of course, Homes was like, oh my God, I'm so glad you're here. Thank you so much for following me here. That's great.

I don't have to do any work. Oh, no. So after all, he loved when he could get a woman to come to him. He didn't want to have to do all the work. If he didn't have to do the work, he was like, this is great. So although she was already gainfully employed with a law firm, he was like, you have to come work for me. You have to be my personal secretary.

Here's a retroactive warning to everybody. If H.H. Holmes ever asked you to be his personal secretary, run the other way. Run for the hell's full time. He asked someone to be his personal secretary, they were gone. Oh, no. And he also put a little bit of sugar on top of this,

and he said, be my personal secretary. I'll pay you a lot more, and then he was like, we can also spend a lot more time together. Which was, he knew was the way to get many like, oh my god. Yeah, he knew what was up. So many is so happy. She has, the dream has been realized.

She has moved to Chicago to reconnect with the love of her life which she thought got away and she was meant to be with him. She contacted him and he was thrilled to hear from her and he's saying, come spend more time with him. That is the saddest thing to me is that like, she's like, fuck, like yes, I did. This is working out exactly. Imagine how she felt, like the excitement, like that's the thing. That's actually, like when fuck, like, yes, I did. This is working out exactly. Imagine how she felt, like the excitement,

like especially when you've like lost contact with somebody, you thought it was really cool, and then you regain it, and you're like, in her head she's felt like this was meant to be. Of course she was. And if she was not. Because she was probably thinking, there was probably thoughts in her head, okay,

I'm gonna move to Chicago. I'm gonna contact him. This could go one of two ways. He's gonna be psyched, and my whole life is going to lead up to this moment and it's going to be great. And we're going to get more and he's going to say, I'm not interested. And I'm going to say cool. I gave it a shot.

I did what I did. Right. And I'm going to move on. Right. So for him to do this is like confirming to her, this was this was the right decision. Me packing up my whole life and writing here for him. It was a right decision and it makes me so angry. He not only loved to like fuck with people and murder them, but this motherfucker loved a mind game.

Oh, he loved a mind game. And I hate that. Yeah, psychologically, he loved to fuck with people. And so he was like, yes, absolutely come work with me. We're going to spend all this time together. He did have a couple of stipulations, though, some little things. I bet. One of the most important ones that was he said,

I'm going to insist that you never refer to me as Mr. Gordon, because that's not my name. Only refer to me as Holmes. Just call me that. And don't ask me why. Just do that. OK. And she was like, Mitt and so me why. Just, just do that, okay. And she was like, and so she's just like, okay, okay.

And she just, all right, sure, why not? So just a few weeks after moving to Chicago, she left the boarding house, she was living in and moved into the apartment in the castle. Or nor she was just so happy. It's moving in the direction she wants it to move in. This is the hardest part of telling these cases. As I just want to go back in time.

And it just runs to a fucking thing and grab her and take her out to a drink. And be like, girl, I'm from the future. This is going to be real fucked up, but this is what was about to happen to you. And it's like, you are worth more than this. You are so much better than that. Mastasio fake fuck.

He takes off that hat. He's nothing, honey. Nothing, honey. Nothing, baby. His hair is shit under that. You are all that in a bag of motherfucking shit. Yes, I wanna be like, girl, many, you packed your shit up and moved to Chicago.

That's a strong independent woman right there. So you can take the fuck away from him. Keep on keeping on, you don't need him. Let's be friends, I'll come back in this. What's that Tick-Tock sound? That's like, he's just a guy. Hit him with your car. Oh my God, I never heard of HIV, too.

He's not the love of your life. He's just a guy. Hit him with your car. That's what I would say about HIV chose. Except for HIV chose. Hit him with your car, too. I can't rid of him. Hit him with like several of your vehicles.

With your horse and buggy. Hit him with that. Hit him with all of his personal belongings. But that's like, I just makes me so mad for many. I know I want to save her. So she moved in with him. And unfortunately, it started right away that she would catch him in a lot of compromising positions

with customers or other random women. She's like, hey, why are you like stealing from people? Yeah, and also he would just be like, like sexually, like, you know, assaulting or carrying on with women all over the place in that castle. Oh, and then like his wife down the street. Yeah, his wife down the street

and the other one across the country. Yeah, and that whole thing. Yeah. So he was just constantly like she would walk in and find, because at this point, he's moved her into the apartment they are together. Yeah. Cording has begun again. The promise of marriage has begun again. And she's walking in finding him like on top of another woman all the time. Oh my God, the fucking felonies I would commit. Oh yeah, so he decided not to not do that. Instead, he had a buzzer installed in his, that so that it ran from the second floor to the third floor. And that way, whenever someone traveled

from the third floor to the second floor where he would carry on his shenanigans, mainly many, when she traveled down there, he would know a buzzer would sound. He carry on his shenanigans. Mainly mini. When she traveled down there, he would know. A buzzer would sound. He could stop his shenanigans and build a alarm that you have for literally going to get his, it's like a motion detector. And so he had that installed specifically

so he could carry on affairs without being caught. So he is like in the middle of like doing the damn thing with somebody else and that girl's like, oh, mini's coming like that off. Yeah, oh, Minnie's coming, like, get off. Yeah, you piece of shit. Truly a piece of shit. In 1893, he did propose to Minnie. You fake as fuck, bitch.

And they began wedding planning. Remember, the fast marries. The fact that he was gonna just like let her plan a whole last wedding, he is playing a long game here. Oh, so many. But she knows the end goal. And I'm so angry right now. He, so many. But he knows the end goal, and I'm so angry right now. He plays so many long cons

and he does with so many people for so long that he's on another level when it comes to like, his stuff is gruesome in a different way because we don't have all the details of the things he did to people. Like we can some size of what he has done.

And we can see his plans for people. And we can see the bones that are left there. And we can see all that evidence. But what was really fucked up about him is the way he laid out long cons. And had like 18 going at once. Yeah. And had no remorse about it. Didn't care how long it reached.

I hate a con, man. Yeah, fucking it. It's care how long it reached. I hate a con man. Yeah, fucking it like it's it's it's rattles my bones. So so he's having her plan a wedding starting to plan a wedding. Oh, remember his wife is living in Wilmot. Yeah, just next time over with his daughter. Right. Just fine. And then his other wife is across the country with his other child. Oh, yeah. And at the same time, Minnie had begun reconnecting with her sister, Nanny. Yeah. Oh, I love that. So who at the time was working as a school teacher in Texas.

And in her letters to her sister in late spring, 1893, Minnie was just gushing about Chicago and how happy she was. And she said that she expected to marry a man named Henry Gordon or Harry Gordon, either one, who had plenty of money. In many wanted her sister to come see the world's fair, and she wanted her to come for the wedding. So Nanny Williams waited until the school year was done, and then she headed out to Chicago on a train. Now Holmes married Minnie, but it was not recorded. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. registry, there is nothing in there that says that they were married, but people were at it,

they did have a ceremony. Well, and it made sense that he wouldn't have been able to get married again because he married to a murder. He has two other marriages. And he married Merta in Illinois, exactly. So he wasn't going to be able to do that. But he certainly went through the motions, definitely made her believe that they were married. And again, still married to Clara Ann Merta.

Nevertheless, falling in with many so quickly, so fast, so closely, that gave him access to Minnie's inheritance right away. Made her a very, very valuable tool in all of his scams as well. With my schedule, getting into the kitchen and cooking a nourishing meal is easier said than done. And I do love eating healthy, but if I'm not making my own meal, my options are very limited and I order so much takeout and then I'm like, oh my god, what have I done here? But no, no, no, take a step back because that's why love daily harvest, and it has been such a game changer for me. Daily Harvest delivers de-freakin'licious.

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Go today and claim a free indoor security camera, plus 20% off your order with interactive monitoring. That's SimplySafe.com slash morbid. There is no safe, like simply safe. So in 1893, he convinced her to put the deed to the Wilmet House in her name. Oh my God. So murder and Lucie are living there. It is now in Minnie's name. Oh my God. So, Merta and Lucia are living there. It is now in Minnie's name.

What? Yep. And a little bit after that, he had Minnie right to the man in charge of her estate, the one she inherited, and request $3,000 be sent to her, which was obtained by selling off a portion of the land left to her by her uncle. Oh, no. And he also convinced many to sign over the deed to the entire property Oh, I knew that was coming. To a man named Alexander Bond.

Who's that? Which she did in about April 1893. And a few weeks later Bond signed the deed over to another man named Benton Lyman. What she didn't know was that Alexander Bond was H.H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H signed the deal deed over to another man named Benton Lyman. What she didn't know was that Alexander Bond was HH Holmes. Yeah, I had a feeling that was an alien. And Benton Lyman, another. That was an alias of Benjamin Pitezel.

Fuckin' A. So now I knew that state was, you're saying these other things first, and I'm like, I know the estate. It's not like Starks Goods Next. Yeah, and he convinced her to do it like rapid. It's not like that. I know what's next. Yep. And he convinced her to do it like rapid. Sign over this deed, put this in your name.

Like that's he was able to do this shit so easily. Well, and the thing that sucks it like back then, like I'm sure some people in their head are like, oh my god, why would you ever do that? Yeah. But women weren't educated about needs and trusts in a state. They weren't allowed to be. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. And it's one of those things where men were in charge of these kind of things.

So you just went along with it. And also on the other side of this, it's a simple thing where she was madly in love with him. And trusted him. And he made her trust him. And he made her feel like this is forever. And made her feel like she made this right decision by changing and uprooting her life to come here and that the universe had put them together.

He had made her really feel like this is somebody who I can trust. It's like trusting your own husband. Of course. It's the way it is. And why wouldn't it? Like you, if John asked you to sign some question, you would question like to that to like a degree. I would never question it. Now. Because I would assume he's telling me the truth. Now, I'm like, I'm not telling what the fuck. What is that? Where's the fine print mother fucker? But yeah, so that all happened, which you know is leading up to nothing good.

Because when he's signing over deeds and he's taken over things, you know this is leading up to taking care of business and his eyes. But then Nanny Williams, her sister, arrived in Chicago. This was in June after the school year had ended. And a few weeks later, they're on Lucy, the two girls on Lucy, received a letter from Nanny, saying, I have taken in the fair to my heart's content and have enjoyed it so much. And she said that she was going to be going on some trips with many and HH homes. And they were going to go to Milwaukee and New York and all these other places. And she said, then we sell for Germany by way of London and Paris. I can hardly realize that I'm going to have

this great adventure for which I have wished to for so long. Brother Harry says you need never trouble anymore about me financially or otherwise. So she wrote to her on saying, like, don't ever worry about me financially or otherwise, because Harry's going to take care of us. And also, we're going to Germany. Yeah. Don't look for us because we'll be in Germany precisely. We're going to be traveling everywhere. That's why you won't be able to get in touch with us ever again. Yep. Now, on the evening of August 13th, 1893, a fire broke out in the Holmes Castle, a real one. Yeah, an actual one. And many of the residents there immediately said that they believed that Holmes set the fire himself to cash in on the insurance policies

and possibly to get rid of a lot of incriminating evidence that was on that second floor. Imagine that. They actually, so one of the residents said, all day preceding the fire, Holmes was at work on the third floor of the building moving things out. And then afternoon at five o'clock, he took the train to Wilmot. Soon after he left, there was noticeable, there was noticeable in the flats on the third floor, a strong odor of burning tar. And soon tar began to run down the

walls in the closet below. And soon tar began to run down the walls in the closet below. And in fact, he had removed all of the things on the third floor. He had literally taken all his clothing, personal papers, the furniture, the fixers. He had removed door handles. Anything that was worth anything.

He had taken out the day before the fire. And in the months after the fire, they had hired a handyman named Joe Owens and he told the fire inspector that the fire had definitely been set to for insurance money. And he said, quote, some things that were in that building, Holmes never wanted known. That's what he told the fire inspector. That's a eerie fucking quote. And apparently the thing that kills me is Owens, Joe Owens, the handyman who said that, was never followed up on later. But they never asked him anymore about that.

I'm like, what the fuck? Doesn't that make so much sense, though? It does and it infuriates me because I'm like, guys. He obviously felt comfortable saying shit in front of this guy. Yeah. But a few days after the fire, a crew came in to help clean up the aftermath of the fire. And this is just interesting.

And it kind of shows that H H homes was definitely to get there and very, like, controlled in the beginning with his schemes and with everything that was going on. But as he started getting more and more intense with it and adding more and more layers on to his chaos, he was losing it a little bit. Like he was starting to get chaotic, he was starting to get aggressive, he was starting to be reckless a little bit.

This fire is a perfect example of that. He was caught very quickly. Right. But this one shows, so a crew came a few days later to clean up the aftermath of the fire and they were throwing debris into off the roof and into a tenement home next door. That's kind. Yeah, like they weren't using like a shoot to like put it into a dumpster or something.

And it was into the home of John S. Nichols who lived there with his family. Nichols was pissed because now there's like, soot and shit all over his home. So we asked for the janitor of the castle to the castle to complain about it. And when Holmes found out about this, he told someone he was gonna fix that man. So apparently he waited for days, pacing the alleyway between his home and the castle,

waiting for Nichols to come out. What the fuck? And when he did, he lost his shit on him. Complain, he was like, I can't believe you complained about this. You forced our workers to have to build an expensive shoot to dispose of the debris. You caused me money. You're the correct way to dispose of that. And he pulled a gun on him. And so a passing patrolman under police officer was walking by and saw this whole thing and like tackle daych

homes to the ground. Yeah. but you're gonna way asshole. Luckily for homes, the whole thing wasn't pursued much further by Nichols because he was like, I don't even want to deal with this guy anymore. He's crazy, but he was very aggressive and reckless and that shows right there that he was loosening. He's breaking. And in his confession, homes claimed that the letter that was sent to Aunt Lucy, many and that was supposed to Aunt Lucy, that was

supposed to be from Nanny, he claimed that that was forged by many. What he does is he tries to blame many for everything, even like the fire and stuff. He blames not the fire, but he blames many for everything that happens after this. Oh, okay. In the case of Nanny, the letter, like you said, establishes why people wouldn't hear from her for a while. Why they shouldn't be concerned about her. Why nobody should ask where she is. So on the day that the letter was written, Mini, what in reality, took a day trip to Milwaukee and Nanny had went with Holmes to the world's fair. They had just

taken the fair together while Minnie was away for the day. Uh-huh. She was going to be away for the night, I believe. Okay. They were seen several times during the day by several witnesses together. It was the last time that Nanny was seen alive. Oh no. She was forced into one of his sealed bank vault type rooms and was left to suffocate enough. Jesus fucking Christ. When Mini returned from her trip the following day, Holmes sent a letter to the landlords of the apartment that he'd set up for himself,

like the landlord of the upstairs apartment. Okay. He had actually sent, because he had set up another apartment outside of the castle where they were gonna be moving from the castle to this apartment together. And then many. Yeah, him, many, and Nanny. Yeah, cool.

What a fanny in there, too. He sent a landlord to that apartment, or excuse me, a letter to the landlord of that apartment, sorry, saying that they would no longer need that apartment. Mm-hmm. The landlord was like, that's weird because they're living in there now. I don't understand where are they. Yeah. What's going on?

But so the landlord was a little suspicious, so he went into the apartment at check on him, and he found it was abandoned completely. Oh, it's a sorry. So him and Minnie had already started living there, and then he sent the letter and was like, no, we don't need to live anymore. Yeah, he set up a whole apartment because they were living in the castle. Yep. But then he had set up a second apartment

outside of the castle, which he often did with people where he would have like, so they wouldn't hear everything. Basically. So he had set them up in there and they had only been living in there for a little while. But they had lived in there. But they had lived in there for at least

like a week or something like that. Sure. There was things, but it was completely abandoned. And he said, and the landlord said, it looked like somebody had left very quickly. Also like, do you have a lease? like a week or something like that. Sure. There was things, but it was completely abandoned. And he said, and the landlord said, it looked like somebody had left very quickly. Also, like, do you have a lease? Yeah, probably not.

But a few days later, Nanny's trunk of all her belongings arrived at the Chicago Wells Fargo Office, addressed Miss Nanny Williams, COH Gordon. Oh, no. No one ever came to claim that trunk. No. Now, later, Gordon. Oh, no. No one ever came to claim that, Trunk. No. Now, later, like I said, he was going to blame Minnie

for a lot of things. He was going to later blame Minnie for the murder of her own sister. Yeah, I had a feeling that was coming. He said she was insanely jealous of Nanny and worried that Holmes was going to cheat on her with Nanny. Well, and it's like, the night she was gone in Milwaukee, he claimed she came home the next day and found that only one bed had been slept in and assumed that they had slept together.

So he claims he came home and found that Mini had murdered her sister in a blind jealous rage. Oh, fuck you. He claimed she had beat her to death with a stool. So he said he helped her throw Nanny's body into Lake Michigan. And then he claimed, of course, that after that, he told Nanny, like, you need to leave. He just banished her. Oh, okay. And he said, you need to get treatment for your mental health. Yeah. I'll help you dispose of the body. But then like, I'll fuck you over. Yeah. Because that'll turn out well for me. No, this was all bullshit, obviously. And when Holmes did another confession later, he admitted that it was all bullshit. Yeah. He killed them both.

He admitted that he was the one who killed nanny. And after having her signed some documents needed to get the insurance payment, uh, pay out from her brother Baldwin's death, who he is also like people are suspicious that he might have killed Baldwin as well. Oh my God. So he may have killed all three of these entire family. He killed many to the way he killed nanny. He locked her in an airtight room to suffocate a slow and agadizing death. Jesus fucking Christ. Both women had insurance policies taken out on them by none other than homes himself as the beneficiary.

Yep. I don't even, like he's evil in so many different ways. He really is. And what's crazy is later, what you'll see is he takes another wife after this, by the way. And we'll get into that coming. Crazy. He's not the marrying type, but here he is.

But he takes another wife and people see him with this wife later. And sometimes he will refer to her as many. And some people confuse her as many, so people think that many is alive longer than she was. And then there was this article I found in like a super old edition of the Ann Arbor Argus newspaper. It's from 1895. And it's just says many Williams is alive. She's not.

And it says Holmes received a telegram from her yesterday. I bet he did. And it says, it was on August 22nd, 1895. And it says, um, he received a telegram yesterday, purporting to come from many R Williams, one of Holmes's alleged victims. It reads, Provence Red Island, August 19th, 1895, the report that I was murdered is absurd. I am alive and well. Yeah. It says, mini R Williams. And strangely, it was written in Holmes' writing. And it says, when the message was shown to Holmes,

he said excitedly, I knew my story that I did not kill the girl would be confirmed. He brushed tears from his eyes and continued, I'm sorry, however, that she has made herself so public by telegraphing. She might as well have written. And then it says Providence, Rhode Island, August 21st. and continued, I'm sorry, however, that she has made herself so public by telegraphing. She might as well have written. And then it says Providence, Rhode Island, August 21st.

The night operator remembers the message, but could not state the time at which it was filed, nor could he state whether it was filed by a man or a woman. Because he was paid off. An inspection of the directory here fails to disclose any name that can be taken for that of a person indicated by the signature of the message. So many R Williams was not alive at that point, and she did not sign for that telegraph, and it was definitely done by somebody helping Holmes. Very interesting, though, that like even an article was written about it.

Yeah, that is wild. Now by this point, he was hoping to, or excuse me, he was hopping two and from various apartments under various names outside of the murder castle to try to stay one step ahead of all the insurance companies that were coming after him. That's the thing that I don't understand, like, on artists like this. Like, aren't you just living in fear at all times? For him, I feel like he was in an era where it worked to his benefit. Yeah. Because like they can only contact you in so many ways. They can only find you so many ways.

So it's like true. Hopping around is really your best bet. And it's like, I don't think he ever thought he was going to get caught. I thought I think he thinks he was one step ahead. Like, remember when you were like young and like couldn't pay your bills and you missed one and then they just called you and called you and called you in the stress of that feeling? Yes. I can't imagine bringing that upon myself intentionally. And having murdered people, names attached to it? Yeah, that's a whole other thing.

That's a whole other thing. But he was essentially running from them, but they were always on his tail. Right. And at the same time, an insurance investigator named F.G. Cowie, he tracked Holmes to a small hotel on Lake Avenue. And he went to go question him about that fire. And the only person he found in the hotel was a woman who introduced herself as Mrs. Holmes. Now, he was determined to nail homes through, like through all of this, and

this continues later, but he couldn't really get very far with Mrs. Holmes. Yeah. Well, we'll find out is that this was his next wife, who he was saying was Mrs. Holmes, but they thought this was many. Oh, okay. Now, the insurance investigator from before was still convinced Holmes had intentionally set that fire and wanted Holmes prosecuted for arson. So he looked into the various insurance claims that this man had taken out and received a shitton of money from. And in January in 1894, he set a trap. He told Holmes the company was going to pay out the insurance claim.

And he was like, just come to the office and downtown Chicago, pick up the check. It's going to be, it's fine. We're going to punk you bitch. So, Kaui confronted him when he came to pick up the check. And he was like, you are an arsonist, you weren't down that, but we know this. And he managed to get homes to confess that he set the fire intentionally. Wow. But I guess he did that because he knew that in order to be prosecuted for arson, Kaui was going to have to file the complaint within one year of the fire. Okay. So all that Holmes had to do was basically dodge and try to duck and dodge investigators

for six or seven more months, and then he'd be in the clear. Damn it. Because if they couldn't get him, after a year, damn it. And he was out. So he just admitted to it being like, they're not going to catch me. Right. And now they're at least like, I can get out of here. So unfortunately for him though, a lot of his other creditors were now aware of all

his misdeeds. Thanks to the attempt at arsoning himself into a payday. Yeah. You really put a spotlight on him? That'll do it. So they contacted, they all got together and they contacted Lafayette Mercentiles Agency, which was a collection agency.

Oh. The manager, George Chamberlain, organized more than 20 of his creditors to confront homes in a meeting. Imagine how fucking excited they were. They were probably psyched. After a lot of back and forth, he agreed to give them over some real estate

as collateral against his debts. And he offered out property that was deeded under the name Kate Durkey and Minnie Williams. Oh my goodness. He made an intentional clerical error on these forms, on the deed transfer, because then it bought him more time because they had to set up another meeting to fix the clerical era.

So when they set up, they were trying to set up the third meeting, he just skipped town altogether. Fuck, I hate that she was one step ahead of them. He was. It's so sad that he was one step ahead of them. He's so mad. What if you were trafficked into a cult over shot nine times, or fell in love with a vampire, or went into a minor surgery and woke up one week later, paralyzed? What would you do?

I'm Whit Missildine, the creator of this is actually happening, a podcast from Wondry that brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events, told by the people who lived them. From a young man that dunes his entire future with one choice, to a woman who survived a notorious serial killer, you'll hear their first-person account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Each episode is an exploration of the human spirit and personal discovery. These haunting accounts sound like Hollywood movies, but I assure you this is actually happening. Followed this is actually happening wherever you get your podcasts, you can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or W or London app.

But after leaving Chicago, because he was getting out of Chicago now, Holmes went to Denver, and he went to Denver to claim the insurance payout for Baldwin Williams's death, who is Minnie and Danny's brother, which tells you everything you need to know. Yep. He had forms that were quote unquote signed by Nanny and Minnie, giving up claims to their brothers estate and saying that they were going away together for a long time, and that HH Holmes could take all the stuff on the estate. Wow. And there's all this stuff about like whether he killed him, it's not known, it's hard to find anything on Baldwin Williams or what happened to him.

Okay. But it's very sus. It seems to take the insurance payout on him. So yeah, weird. And while he was in Denver, he met back up with a woman that he had been speaking to and corresponding with for over a year, while married to Clara, Merta, and pretending to be married to many. Her name was Georgiana Yoke.

Oh, that's a pretty name. And he had been, again, talking to her for at least a year before leaving Chicago. He courted her very quickly and on January 17th, he married her as Henry M. Howard of Fort Worth, Texas. And did he actually marry her? He married her as Henry M. Howard of Fort Worth, Texas. And did he actually marry her? He married her. Okay. Georgiana Yoke was born October 17th, 1869.

A lot more is known about her than most of the other victims. I don't know why she was concentrated on more. She had almost white blonde hair. She had super blue eyes that were huge apparently. Apparently they were so big that people thought something was wrong with her. Like they called it like a defect, and I was like, I love big eyes.

I don't understand that. Back then, I guess it's not a part of being a classic beauty. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It truly is. But when she knew Holmes, she was in her early 20s. She had been working as a school teacher in Indiana until early 1893.

She actually just like really abruptly left her teaching position and moved to Chicago to live with an uncle. Chicago. Chicago. Exactly. Before leaving that teaching position, I found this very interesting. She had heroically saved children she was teaching from a burning school building. Holy shit.

Had run back in and saved them. Was H.H. home someone that lit it on fire? Right, you would think. Wow, that's incredible. So she's just like a hero. Perna for Georgiana. Right, I'm saying. Georgiana, right?

Georgiana. It was while she was in Chicago with her uncle that she met H.H. home. Wamp, wamp. They met apparently while she was working at the cloak department at the fairgrounds. Bitch, got you a cloak. She had also worked at a department store before that

in the area, but apparently, Mini was someone who came there a lot. Like, Georgiana and Mini definitely met. Oh, that's spooky. Yeah, I don't like that. Yeah, no, that's too close to home. And like, nearly all of the women that H.H. Holmes ever came in contact with, or anything else in his life for that matter, his interest in Georgiana, I mean, she was beautiful.

Yeah. But it definitely had a lot to do with money. In 1893, the year that they met, Georgiana's grandmother had passed away. Oh my God, wait, wait, wait. Did she get an inheritance? She sure did. Crazy. She got a 160 acre farm in Indiana.

Well bitch. So coincidence, I think not. No. So of course, when he left Chicago on the run from all the insurance claims and debtors, he went to Denver and he knew exactly what he needed to do. He needed to find that girl. He was stringing along and Mary heard to get her money.

He even told her mother that the mini property was in Fort Worth, Texas, was left to him by his uncle, false. Yeah, false. But strangely, he said there was one condition of this in her in herrited land, and it was that Holmes had to take on his late

uncle's name. Henry Mansfield Howard. At some point with somebody just like, you're a fucking liar. That's it. I'm like, no one was like, who would ever make you take on their names? Like, I don't want my name to die. So like, you have to take a whole exact name. The whole thing. Apparently, Georgiano was fine with that, like the strange name changing. She knew him as H.H. Holmes. She also knew a few of his other aliases. She just kind of accepted that, which is interesting.

Shows how charming he could be when he wanted to be. That's the thing, because to us, we're like, who the fuck would believe that? But I would believe that if somebody charmed the pants off of me. He's charming these ladies. Now later in court, she actually, Georgiana took the stand later in court

for her lurch, she lives. Oh, yeah. So later in court, she said that she believed that she knew about the Will Met woman. Okay. Talking about murder, his other wife. She was like, I thought I knew her. I believe I might have known about her, but she didn't remember if he had said they were married or not.

And I was like, that's crazy. I mean, minor details. Wow. I was like, come on. And at one point, she was like, yeah, I mean, like, I, he might have said that there was a marriage ceremony, but I just don't remember. And it's like, girl! You know what? I'm here to say it. That's not a girl's girl. That's not a girl's girl. But newspapers at the time did, like, she was, I think she got kind of railroaded in the newspapers. So she, maybe she was just being being like, fuck all y'all.

But newspapers at the time referred to her as an adventurous spirit, which in those times meant a woman of loose morals. Yeah. That's what that meant. I consider myself a free spirit, but not a woman of loose morals. But back then it would be a woman of loose morals. So I think she was getting shitted on in the press

so she probably was like fuck everybody. That's what it sounds like. Now someone who knew Georgian and Fort Worth, a man, a man, he said something about her that I was like fuck everybody. That's what it sounds like. Now someone who knew Georgian and Fort Worth, a man, a man, he said something about her that I was like, wow, all right. I was like, if anybody ever said that about me, I'd be like, wow, that is, I'm gonna like chisel that on something.

Ooh, maybe I'll say that again. He called her a remarkably beautiful woman. And he said, it was one of those winning attractive faces that you cannot get away from anymore than you can believe the possessor capable of evil. It was a fresh and beautiful face with the fine hopes and aspirations of youth in it, and one that once seen Remained an indelible memory. She wound her way unconsciously into the heart of everyone who met her. She had that way about her, which takes hold of the roots of things in an instant. She was as gentle and refined and manner and personal conduct as it was possible to be. Maybe it's me, Malin. I was like, damn. Yeah, that's, that's, is this just like an acquaintance that

said that about you? Like, holy shit. Sounds to me like an obsession. I was like, uh, that guy liked you like you. Okay. I have pictures of you hung up all around his home and maybe it's not a good thing. He had a crush on you. Oh, it may be more. And the Holmes is landlord at one point, called her the most beautiful woman he had ever met. Damn.

So it was like Georgiana. I feel like a Georgiana just has to be pretty. Yeah, and I mean, the way they described her giant blue eyes and white blonde hair. Yeah, like fuck off. Okay. All right, Elsa He also said she appeared to idolize her husband and that he was also very enamored with her And he said that he was that they were a very affectionate couple I bet so that's interesting now after leaving Denver Holmes and Georgiana's new wife began making their way to Texas

where he intended to claim that land that many had transferred into his name. Or as far as Georgiana knew that the uncle had left him. Yeah, the uncle whose name he now used. But before he did this, they made a brief stop back in Chicago, which I was like reckless. Once he was there, he got a new life insurance policy on Georgiana from the Fidelity Mutual Life Association of Philadelphia, and he took it out to ensure Benjamin Pite's self-life for $10,000.

Oh, shit. It's getting... Not good up in here. Not good. It's getting heat. Now, he was very strategic about this time in his life. All the moves he made seem chaotic, but they all made sense. He was definitely moving from one state to another, just to avoid prosecution for the arts and creditors. Yeah, and posting him creditors.

But the trip to Denver was to claim the insurance payout for the policy on Baldwin Williams' life. He was able to claim that money. The trip to Chicago was done to tie up some loose ends, take out the policy on Pite's L life, and then leave the city forever. And Holmes' next move to Fort Worth was to claim that land that many Williams' uncle had left and that she had transferred into Holmes' and Pite's Cell's names unknowingly. Yeah, but when's he going to find the time to kill Pite's Cell?

Because I know that's what's happening here. Well, what he was thinking was he was going to sell some of the land in order to get a lot of cash really quick. And then on the rest of the land, he was going to build a new three-story building, a new castle, the Fort Worth murder castle. Does that happen? That's what he was planning to do. Okay. That's where he was planning to do. Okay.

That's where he was going to be where he planned that Pite Sel was going to join and they were all going to be part of this whole scheme together. Yeah, right. Now, it's during this time in Holmes's life that Benjamin Pite Sel really came back into the fold in a wild way, obviously. Before he had gotten to Texas with Georgiana,

he sent Pytzel there first with his own son, Pytzel's son Howard, who was 10 years old at the time. Oh no. To start the whole inheritance thing, because remember Pytzel can do that because the deed was transferred into his name. Yeah. So he sends him, get that started. Okay. So we can have it go when I get there. You little fucking henchman. Now, Pite's life was definitely a lot of poor decisions one after the other. I feel like he was a heavy drinker from an early age. Like we said in part two, I believe he had a long history

of like petty crimes. The one that he actually liked, the one that we mentioned in part two, he actually had to flee with his wife and four children to Chicago in 1888. Ding, ding, ding. That's where he met homes. And the connection between homes and Piedzel doesn't really show up on paper until 1893. But that's when he became one of the bitters on homes as ABC copier company when it went

to auction, auction when he didn't pay any of the creditors. Okay. But in reality, we know from part two that Pite Sel was part of Holmes' life much earlier than that during the construction of the initial castle. Exactly. So they were really playing a long game here making sure that no one knew that connection early on.

Fuckers. And there's a lot of speculation as to who did what, who knew what, when it came to what Holmes was doing, but Pytzel was definitely fully aware of all the schemes and he was evolved in a lot of them. So we talked about in part two that at one point during the time when he was in Holmes's employee, that Pytzel had actually gotten arrested in Indiana for passing bad checks. I remember that. And Holmes had bailed him out using bad checks. But he had bailed him out.

And we know that Holmes doesn't do anything out of the goodness of his heart. Never does. No, he needed Pytzel. Yeah, he didn't do that. Just a few weeks after bailing him out of jail, Holmes sent a letter to Pytzel's lawyer asking him He didn't bite sell. He didn't do that. Just a few weeks after bailing him out of jail, Holmes sent a letter to Pytsell's lawyer

asking him to send Pytsell a letter threatening him that he was going to be brought back into custody in Indiana. He said, quote, he is not doing what he ought to in regard to transferring his house and lot. And it seems that Holmes had been helping to support Pytzel and his wife and children while he was in jail. And in exchange, they had made some sort of agreement that he was going to sign over the deed to Pytzel's house and land. Oh shit. So this was a whole arrangement he had. He was only going to do this to get this. And Pytzel was a moving fast enough

for him to get the shit done. And he starting to question is he really gonna do this? So he was like, I gotta play that card. I'm gonna have his lawyer threaten him and say that he's gonna be arrested again. It's also like, did you not see this coming, dude? Like, you're a con man, he's a con man, one of you is gonna con the other. Because by this point, Pizzel had been involved

in so many of Holmes' schemes, like, very involved. He's a lot on you. Deeds in his name, things being transferred around. He's bringing him victims. I was just gonna say, exactly. He's doing all this stuff. He knew how this plays out for people in the end. Right.

Very rarely do people survive to the end of these schemes with H.H. Holmes. It's always him standing alone at the end. Yeah. With all the money, all the deeds, all the shit, everything, and all the credit. So I With all the money, all the deeds, all the shit, everything. And all the credit. So I don't know how he didn't realize.

But he, who knows if he realized that he would ever be a target, but at this point, he was going to become a target. It sounds like it. He was not just going to be involved. He was going to be the actual, they were going to be saying, hey, we need to have a dead body and take it out and get a false insurance claim. Well, they weren't going to get a fake dead body this time. Ready, ready?

And I'll say it for you. And we're going to talk about part three, or we're going to talk about that next week. We're going to talk about that in part four because when it comes to Benjamin Pytzel and his family and what happens next, it's just a lot. Oh, shit. And it's a lot to take in, it's a lot to come through, and I really want to give it its own.

I'm starting to wonder if this bitch is going to be five parts. I think it's going to be four. You think four? I think four. I'm going to make it for it. But part four I think is going to be a doozy, a long one. So, so everybody buckle in, because we're going to talk about Jack the Ripper.

We're going to talk about all that shit. We're going to talk about Patzel. We're going to talk about Patzel.'re gonna talk about Jack the Ripper. We're gonna talk about all that shit. We're gonna talk about Patzel. We're gonna talk about Patzel. We're gonna talk about a lot. It's gonna be a lot. We're gonna see what happens to Georgie. I was just gonna say, yeah, we're gonna find out how she gets away because I'm happy that she does.

Yep, she sure does. And sort of good blue eyes. Herner giant blue eyes that they literally referred to as a defect. And that's fucked. Girl what? That's a good view. Have you ever fucked. Girl what? That's a good one. Have you ever met Christina Ricci? That's an asset.

Like, I'm obsessed with Critch. Like her big eyes, I'm like, oh, Gorge. Love them. Absolutely Gorge. Sarah, Highland, come on. You know your eyes are the only part of you that are as big when you're born. They stay the same size.

Thank you. Yeah, correct. Well, anyways, thanks guys for listening. We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. You're going to have to worry that you call somebody's eyes a defect because that's really rude and disgusting, by... It's very rude.

Especially if they're gorge. And everybody's gorge. You're all gorge that'll be better. She's Elsa. And I love you. Bye. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wundery.com slash survey.

What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill? Or are they made to kill? I'm Candace DeLong, and on my podcast, Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music, I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler.

On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings, Breaking Down Lori Valow, a.k.a. Mommy Doom stays motives, and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder? I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey, Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music Exclusive Podcast Killer Psychie Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today!

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