Morbid - Episode 460: H.H. Holmes Part 4

Episode Date: May 18, 2023

In Part 4 of H.H. Holmes, it gets even wilder. This man has now headed to Texas with his 500th wife and is ready to join his partner in crime, Benjamin Pitezel to steal Minnie Williams' inherited land. He has plans. He plans to now build a Texas murder castle like the one he created in Chicago. But first, Pitezel and Holmes need to scheme their way into a payday, using an insurance scam and faking Pitezel's death. When it looks like Pitezel might back out, things go sour and Holmes goes on a murder spree that brings him to several states and even Canada. Strap in, friends. It's complicated and horrific here.Thank you to Dave White for research assistance. Resources: Philadelphia Inquirer. 1894. "Cause of death a mystery." Philadelphia Inquirer, September 6: 6.—. 1896. "Holmes' chronology." Philadelphia Inquirer, April 12: 18.—. 1896. "Holmes Confesses 27 murders." Philadelphia Inquirer, April 26: 1.Philadelphia Times. 1894. "All looking for Pitezel." Philadelphia Times, November 21: 1.—. 1894. "Perry's Peculiar Death." Philadelphia Times, September 5: 3.Selzer, Adam. 2017. H.H. Holmes: The True History of the White City Devil. New York, NY: Skyhorse Publishing.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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than the national average savings rate. Apply for your Apple card now in the wallet app on iPhone and start growing your daily cash with savings today. Apple card subject to credit approval. Savings is available to Apple card owners, subject to eligibility requirements. Savings is available to Apple Card owners, subject to eligibility requirements. Savings accounts provided by Goldman Sachs Bank USA. Remember FDIC? National Average Savings Rate is from FDIC website. Terms apply. Hey, weirdos, I'm Melina, I'm Ash. And this is morbid. more bad. No, I was just saying it annoying. No, this is more bad. You're never going to know it. Never.

I had just quite the moment while we were getting set up here. Yeah, she was knocking shit over. She was falling out of her seat. Mikey's computer started and it did the like, and I thought he burped and I was like, oh my God. And then I was like, wait, that's a computer. That's a computer. I was like, oh my God. And then I was like, wait, that's a computer. That's a computer. I was like, a computer.

And then my fucking ice coffee went sailing across the galaxy. And I'm just sitting over here. She's like, with the microphone and my laptop and I'm like, can we start? She's like, I'm ready. She's like, this is why I don't do group projects. People like you, Ash. People like you. I. People like you.

I always was that bitch in a group project. Just like, it's just a wrecking, walking shit over. Oh, yeah, he's coffee's falling. It's falling. All right. So, so we're in part four. Yeah, she is gonna make it five, though.

Yeah. I apologize, I can't. I just can't cram it all into this episode. It would be too much free to comprehend, too much for me to comprehend, really. And it's definitely too much free to comprehend. It's too much free to comprehend. I'm not gonna cram it into one episode just to do that.

It would be not as good, I think, in my opinion. So I am going to make it five and I'm gonna keep the Jack the Ripper stuff for part five because I wanna find a ship manifest that I've been seeing rumblings of, but I can't seem to find the actual ship manifest. Which seems to be a lot of the issue in the Jack the Ripper series is a lot of people say stuff.

But it's not back at up. No one's got any documentation to back it up. So it's like, oh yeah, I think there was a home zone of ship on the way to UK like during that whole thing. And you're like, whoa. And then it's just like Brian. Where's that? And it's like, and it's also like homes

was a very common name back then. Exactly. That's why he chose it. So it's like, I don't know about that. Imagine that. But we'll get to it. We're going to get further into that next episode. We will end at five.

Don't worry. I'm not going to take this like the longest series we've ever had. We'll just tie it with Jack. We'll just tie it with Jack. It's pretty much up there. But in this one, we're gonna talk about several murders that are committed.

Pretty brutal ones. They're all pretty brutal, but these ones involve children. So yeah, he's a real monster. Like a real monster. Well, I mean, he murdered his pregnant mistress. yeah, he's a real monster, like a real monster. Well, I mean, he murdered his pregnant mistress. Yeah, he's fucking terrible. That'll do it. And the child in that situation, poor pearl.

I know. You know, I can't stop thinking about that name. I mean, it's a cute name. Yeah, and like those kind of names are coming back now. Yeah, like old-timey names. Cute old lady names. But you know what, when we last left you guys I'll give you a little recap because I know there's a lot to take in in this series

So I think it's probably helpful to be like this is what happened in the last time I need the recap Even if you don't even you don't Holmes married again. Yeah, he's married again. Remember he is still married to Merta still married to Clara and now Georgiana Georgiana is now his new wife. He fake married Minnie who he killed and her sister. He's a real married Georgiana though. He real married Georgiana. In Colorado.

Yes. Look at me. There you go. So he married again, he's plotted to take the inherited land from his new wife, Georgiana. She stands to get some inherited land from her dead grandmother. So he's plotting to take the inherited land from his new wife, Georgiana. She stands to get some inherited land from her dead grandmother, so he's plotting to take that. He has sent Benjamin Pytzel to Fort Worth, Texas to start getting the new Texas murder castle underway. Like he's ready

to start this whole process over with a whole other murder castle, which is the same way. Yep. He's doing that on the land that he made many Williams transfer into he and Benjamin's aliases names after he, and then he murdered her. Now he's seeming to begin to turn on Benjamin a little bit after they both decided collectively to defraud an insurance company by faking Benjamin's death and using another corpse to pretend it says. I feel like it's not gonna be fake. Yeah, it's looking like Benjamin's time

as his lackey is coming to a tragic end. Yeah, that's a point. How to feeling this episode was gonna be yeah. Heights, that trick. Yeah, that's not great for that entire family to be quite honest. By the time Holmes and Georgiana arrived in Fort Worth

to claim the land deeded to him by many. Pite'selle had already been there for a few weeks. He was there with his young son Howard just getting things together. So when he first got to Texas, Pite'selle had to receive the land deeded to his alias Benton Lyman. And he had to transfer it back again to Homes. Okay. Now initially, I'll just give you a little rundown of how it initially happened,

so you remember, many was to transfer it into homes as alias, who she didn't know. She thought this was another buyer. Then that alias of homes was deeding it into Benjamin Pite's self-alias of Benton Lyman. Yes. So now that Benton Lyman has it, he now has to deed it back into real homes' name. It's funny. I wonder if any of, I don't know exactly how any of that works, but if somebody looking at that deed, switching hands constantly,

like, thought anything about that. Yeah, I think, honestly, I think it's just the time period. They were able to get away with this a lot easier. Nowadays, it would be like flagged. You would think, right? The first time it went into an alias, I think people would be like,

wait a second, what's going on there. Like it would at least be like looked at. This time instead of like H.H. Homes, they put it into Harry Homes' name. And this deed, this deed has been like, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like you said, like somebody, you would think somebody would maybe catch,

but again, I think it's just the time period. Even back then, though, I'm like, damn, you didn't think that was weird. It's been like six times. Yeah, because this deed has been around more times than a Broadway show. Yeah, it really has. And from there, Pite Cell selected a parcel of land

on the corner of second and rust streets, and that's where they were gonna put the murder castle. The castle was going to be built under the watch of construction superintendent H. M. Pratt. And guess who that was? H. H. Holmes. Yep, that was another one of his aliases. This is messiest fuck. I didn't even know. No. I'm just talking to them all. So he has 40 plus aliases. That's so crazy. Yeah. And he basically started doing the same shit he did in Chicago

with the construction of this one. He wanted to build another murder castle, so he had to be weird and sneaky about it. So he would fire the workers every now and then to keep the plans from being fully realized. He did, however, switch up his game a little, and he started out actually paying people. Huh, that's which is shocking, Graham.

That's weird. But then he was right back on his bullshit and stopped. He was like, that sucks. Yeah, he was like, shocking for him. That's weird. But then he was right back on his bullshit and stopped. He was like, that sucks. Yeah, he was like, oh, I don't like that. I don't not like that. And he had a million excuses for why he couldn't pay on time. And he also went back to taking out loans and buying furniture and fixtures for the building on credit. And then he would just not pay. And then he would just hide the items from the creditors when they came to take them back. This man gives me so much anxiety running from these creditors.

Yeah, and he's just, and he's doing the most because he's made places in this castle now where he's hiding all these furnishings. Yeah, exactly. Now, unfortunately for him, Holmes was not going to stick around in Texas long enough to see this castle actually come to fruition. What happened?

In the spring of 1894, he and Piedzel began that scheme. This is the beginning, not of the insurance fraud scheme. It's the beginning of the scheme that would kind of unravel everything for him. The scheme before the scheme after that scheme and the arachyme of that other scheme. This scheme was they would travel around the state buying horses and they would buy these horses with worthless promissory notes and deeds. Not cash.

So like bad checks essentially? Basically and then they would sell them for cash and move on before the seller figured out that they'd been scammed. Oh. But this plan fell apart when they were both arrested like idiots. Oh shit. Yeah apart when they were both arrested like idiots. Oh shit.

Yeah, once they were, because it was a shitty plan to begin with, somebody was going to catch on. And once they were out on bond investigators, now we're like, huh, we should begin looking into these guys a little bit more, because homes, they were like, yeah, he has a few things on his records here. So it was definitely going to bring more detectives on his tail. It made us a lot better. And gathering up just some of their belongings

and all the money that Holmes had managed to raise at this point for the castle, Holmes and Georgiana fled out of Texas for St. Louis with a brief stop in Denver along the way. Okay. So they're running all around. And does she know, she knows about the scheme obviously, cause now she's on the run with him. We don't know what she knew.

Okay, it's one of those things where like, I don't know, yeah, I don't know what she knew. Yeah, that's fair. Maybe she didn't know. I'm not real sure. Georgie didn't know. She knew something, but I don't know what she knew. Okay, at this point, Holmes was on the run now for two crimes.

He was on the run still still from Chicago for the arson of the original. They got it literally. They got it. Oh, yes. And now he's on the run for horse slavery. Horses in arson. I'm saying horses and fire. So you would think he would run as far away as possible from the two places he committed the two things he's on the run about. One with Chicago and Texas. But no, after he fled Texas, they went to St. Louis and St. Louis is four hours from Chicago, technically.

Do you think you just like go to Europe? And it's like, that's the thing. And it's 12 hours from Texas. Obviously these two things are in like car, you know, which is like at the time, it's not really relevant. But it's like, they're not crazy far. It's not like across the country, you know what I mean? So it's like, that's weird that you didn't go further away.

That's the thing, like even track California. Yeah, just some are even like Massachusetts, like get out of there. Yeah. He's already been there, like, go back. But I mean, don't, I don't want you here. Well, he probably didn't want you, because he has a wife there. That's true.

And his new wife might not like that his old wife is there. There's a lot going on. But he had to have a reason for like going to St. Louis and that reason was that Georgiana was turning 25 in the fall. And that was when she was going to inherit the rest of the estate left to her by her grandmother in Indiana. So he was obviously planning to take the entire inheritance for himself alone. So he wanted to planning to take the entire inheritance for himself alone.

So he wanted to stay closer to Indiana to wait and then pounce on that when she turned 25. And he was just going to like throw her down a sheet. He's so gross. He really is. Well, in St. Louis, he called himself, is it St. Louis or St. Louis? I say St. Louis. I say St. Louis. I'm sure I will get yelled at for that, but like, I don't, I think it's probably interchangeable. Right. I'm asking Mikey about it. I think it's St. Louis, but no shit.

Because I don't, you know what I always think of me being St. Louis? Isn't that like a musical or something? Um, I don't know. I feel like that's a musical. I believe you. You have more musical knowledge than I do. Um, am I thinking something different now?

I feel like I need to confirm this with myself. I think of, um, fucking Jennifer Hudson. And that's what I think of the city, the city and St. Louis. Hold on, I'm gonna just check this really briefly. Doesn't have Judy Garland, isn't it? I'm pretty sure. I, you're asking the wrong girlie about a musical.

Yeah, it's a thing. Okay. But now I'm like, is it called Mimi and St. Louis or Mimi and St. Louis? I throw on the pronounced names.com for the people in the back. For the most names.com. Louis. This is real time. I feel like this is gonna prove me wrong and it's gonna be upsetting.

Stanked Louis. Yeah. Fuck, guys. And I always believe that guy, because he sounds like Jack Puppin. I believe everything he says. I believe that man. All right. So St. Louis.

So that French guy, I believe, and he said St. Louis, I don't know. It could be either one. Maybe if it's like, if you're from there, you say it, maybe, and I'm not from there. So it's not, you know, it's not my business. That's what I'm saying. St. Louis, I'll say now. I said it both ways now, so I've covered all bases. So here we are. After arriving in settling in St. Louis, in the Saint Place. Yeah. So while he's there, he called himself HM Howard. Are you sure it's not Howard?

Howard, maybe. Howard. Howard. As HM Howard, she bought a drug store again on the corner of 14th and North Market streets. Because remember, he's taken money that he raised for the murder castle. He didn't do that. He's run the St. Louis St. Louis. And now he is bought another place,

a drug store to run. Okay. When he bought it, yeah, quote unquote, run into the ground. When he bought it, he told the seller that he just wanted something to quote unquote, occupy his attention. And that he really didn't care a lot about profits, because he was just, he's well off. He doesn't give a shit about that. He's in it for the fun. He's in it for the fun of a drug store. The fun that a drug store can provide. That just, he's well off. He doesn't give a shit about that. He's in it for the fun. He's in it for the fun of a drug store. The fun that a drug store can provide. That's what he does. He does.

That's a great fucking time, all right? You can get anything you need there. I'm saying that's what he's in for it. And he used a little cash to buy it, but then he bought the rest of it with ding-ding-ding, useless promissary notes and stock. Yeah. He's also like, you have the money to spend

and like plenty leftover. Just do it the right way, brother. His greedy is fuck. Him. He is Scrooge McDuck. Literally. He is swimming in a bunch of gold coins and he's not giving them up, but he's not cute.

Scrooge McDuck is. He's not, that's true. But yeah, he did the same old thing. He bought furniture and fixing for the store on credit. No intention of paying for it. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Soon after arriving and settling there, Benjamin Pitezel joined them. He had moved there with his wife, Kerry, and their five children.

Oh, yeah. This was when Holmes let Benjamin's wife, Kerry, and on the plan that he and her husband were working on. They needed her help with it. Their plan was to defraud the fidelity mutual insurance company by faking Ben's death. They needed her in on it because they needed to fake his death. They needed her out. You're not going to fool Fidelina. You're a mutual, though.

And they did not. I don't feel it. But meanwhile, Holmes was also already on the path of selling the pharmacy and then running away from the massive debt that he had compiled with the pharmacy everywhere. So he's just like, oops, that sucked. And now we're going to run away from that. And it's on to the next thing. It's just amazing.

The anxiety filled life he must have lived. It created ourselves. And he just keeps yeah, but I don't think he I think in the end it seems like he became anxious and he became hot to paranoid and it started to in the beginning I think he was having a fucking blast with it because I don't think anything was catching up to him in the beginning well and I think in the beginning there was less to keep track of and then it just kept piling on, and now he's basically negating states out of his available halves of escape. He's snowballing. Yeah. The mess is getting bigger and bigger as it rolls down the fucking hill.

He's blacklisting himself out of several states. And it's like, soon there's not going to be many left, my God. And they're all in the middle. Yeah, like the Midwest happening. But Holmes and Bitecell found a buyer for the drug store, not going to be many left, my God. And they're all like in the middle. Yeah, like in the West. Yeah, like in the West. But Holmes and Bitesell found a buyer for the drug store. But in order to buy the store, the man had to take a loan from a supplier.

And when he did this, he had to promise that supplier that they would be his main supplier. That was kind of the part of the whole thing. That makes sense. And that was in exchange for the money they were going to pay. The problem, however, was that Holmes already had a mortgage on the store, which meant that any additional mortgage on the same property would have been illegal and invalid.

So when the new buyer became aware of the situation, he immediately alerted authorities. And he was like, this guy is trying to fucking scam me. And Holmes was arrested on fraud charges. Oops. And this is in St. Louis fraud charges. Girls. Oops. And this is in St. Louis, St. Louis. They say Louis St. Louis. This is when he was, so he bought this drugstore, had no intention of running it properly.

We did all the same shit, bought it with worthless notes, bought the fixings for it with all bullshit credit that he wasn't paying. And then he turns to sell it to somebody illegally and he doesn't think that this person, he thought he was so much smarter than everybody around him. That was, it's, it's pretty par for the course with serial killers. I feel like they always think they're smarter than everybody. And no one's going to outsmart me. And it's like, you're a fucking idiot like narcissism. You're not smart. No, you're cunning. And

there's a different head. But you are not smart. Right. There's not you're an idiot. And it's like in your greedy, your gluttonous and it gets and it's going to catch up to you. It will always catch up. And it does because this guy who was buying the pharmacy was like, fuck you, you're trying to swindle me. You dick. So we called the authorities and boom. What's authorities? Authorities. Hello, this man's trying to scan me. This man is trying to swindle me.

Like, sir, this is St. Louis Louis. Sorry, you might not accept that. Like, are you all right? This is not great Britain. Like a fake like transatlantic accident that like doesn't exist. He's like Madonna. What's going on right now?

So is this like a bit? So he's like, no, I'm really upset. I'm really upset. What if you were trafficked into a cult over shot nine times or fell in love with a vampire, or went into a minor surgery and woke up one week later, paralyzed. What would you do? I'm Whit Missildine, the creator of this is actually happening, a podcast from Wondry that brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events, told by the people who lived them. From a young man that dooms his entire future with one choice, to a woman who survived a notorious serial killer. You'll hear their

first-person account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Each episode is an exploration of the human spirit and personal discovery. These haunting accounts sound like Hollywood movies, but I assure you this is actually happening. Follow this is actually happening wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to ad free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Hey there, fellow podcast listener, it's Elena. And Ash, and we're taking you back to the days before streaming services. Whoa!

You know when you would come home from high school and it was only a few hours until that TV show everyone was watching was about to come on. Well, in 1999, that show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In our podcast with Wondery, the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer, we take it back to 1999. So get out your knee high boots and paste that poster of Angel on the wall. In our podcast with Wondery, the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer, we take it back to 1999. So get out your knee-high boots and paste that poster of Angel on the Wall.

It's time to enter the Buffyverse. Some of you avid morbid listeners already know what we've gotten store. Hey, your nose. Join us as we sway our way through Buffy's drama, action, and romance. Episode by episode. Slazy. Follow the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Sl, and romance. Episode by episodes. Slacy, follow the rewatcher, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon Music

or Wondery app. Da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da So he was in jail for two weeks and was finally bonded out by Georgiana. Oh, man. Oh, yeah, she got it. Yeah, I don't know what Georgiana knew. You know what she said about things, though. We say about Georgiana. Hmm. Hmm.

Hmm. I say, I'm just going to throw my chin in the little bit about it. I'm not going to say she, I don't know what she knew because I'm not in Georgiana's head. I'm gonna put my sunglasses on, roll up my window and say, I don't know her. I don't know her, so I don't know. But the day she bonded him out, they went to the train station

and we're intending to flee right back to Chicago. But you're wanted there too, brother. And what they were gonna do there was regroup, kinda formulate the next part of a giant fucked up plan. But their plan was not going to happen because before the train even left the fucking station, they were stopped by a police sergeant. And the police sergeant said that he was afraid the proposed trip would have to be postponed. And then he placed homes under a rest again. After he literally just got out like that morning, literally like got out, walked to the

train station, and they were like, no, so back to jail. This is monopoly. According to news reports at the time, Georgiana, quote, protested in the most indignant manner and became almost hysterical and denounced the arrest as persecution. Georgie, calm down. So, off he goes back to jail.

And they set bail at $800, which at that point was $50,000 at present. They were like, you're fucked up and we're not letting you out of here. No one had that cash at the time. So Georgiana went to Indiana and retrieved the deed to some of the land she was going to be inheriting. And that was going to be accepted as sufficient collateral. Okay.

It's old timey. They were going to hand over a deed to land. Makes sense. He was released from custody the next collateral. Okay. It was, it's old timey. They were gonna hand over a deed to land. It makes sense. He was released from custody the next day. Damn. So he had only spent a couple of weeks in jail before that, but he made some networking moves once he was in there. Of course he did.

We know Holmes always is closing. He's working on a pyramid scheme, even in the walls of the prison. He's an idiot, but he's a hard working idiot. Cunning. He connected with other inmates, and he started getting them into future schemes with him, like promising them things that he couldn't deliver. Of course. One of these convicts was a outlaw and bank robber named Marion Hedgepeth. Holmes told

him about his scheme to defraud the insurance company by faking Pite's L's death, passing off another body as his, and then he was like, we're going to flee the country after that. Because I've kind of used up a lot of these states, and I should probably get out. Now according to hedge paths, Holmes offered to bring him in on the scheme, but he was like, no, I'm good. Like even he was like, I think you're dumb. Like, I don't think this is going to work out for you. There was something about Holmes that he was concerned about.

And there was also a pesky little detail that Marion was serving a 25 year sentence. So he wasn't, I don't really know how we're gonna cut you into this. He wasn't gonna be scheming outside of those walls. Not for a while. But he did direct Holmes to a very, morally gray lawyer. Oh, a lawyer. By the name of Jeb DeHau. This lawyer agreed to help homes in Pite's L pull off the insurance scheme once they arrived

in Philadelphia. I don't get you, DeBard. He was morally gray, maybe, in understatement. The morally corrupt, very unscrupulous, I would say. Well, I loved that word. That's a good word. Unscrupulous. But, Hedgepath later told reporters, quote,

I am now convinced that he would sooner or later have murdered me. Had I been able to accompany him on his intended trip abroad? Which ones had this? Hedgepath though. I love it. 25-year sentence. Yeah, I was like, I don't think you had to worry. You weren't getting out of jail.

My guy. Your friend. So, on July 29th, Benjamin Pites out, left St 25 year sentence. Yeah, I was like, I don't think you had to worry. You weren't getting out of jail, my guy. You're fine. So on July 29th, Benjamin Pites out, left St. Louis St. Louis and he told his wife, I'm just covering my basis. Hey, you know. He told his wife he was taking a brief trip to purchase some lumber in Chicago,

but he was actually headed to Philadelphia where he was gonna meet up with Holmes. Yeah, yeah. Now, meanwhile, as soon as Holmes was bonded out of jail, he and Georgiana left St. Louis St. Louis and headed to Philadelphia to meet with Benjamin Pizzo. Along the way, they stopped in Indiana to visit Georgiana's mother, where Holmes told her

they were gonna be traveling to Germany to look after his uncle's property. Whoof. So she shouldn't be alarmed at all if she doesn't hear from Georgiana for a while. He was fully planning on murdering Georgiana. And she was fully planning on spending the rest of her life with him, even like in his outlawish ways.

Yeah. Now Georgiana did stay behind in Indiana a little bit, just for a little while, just like visit with family, while Holmes went straight to Philadelphia after this to start the whole scam. So Benjamin Pitezel got to Philadelphia on August 17th, 1894. Within a couple of days, he opened a business, and it was a patent business under the name B.F. Perry. Another area. Another one. Yeah. This is what Holmes had told him to do. Once he'd established himself, the plan was that how the unscrupulous, the morally gray lawyer was going to help them get a fresh corpse that was similar looking to Benjamin.

Why does this lawyer have a corpse connect? Not real sure. A lot of people had corpse connect back then. Yeah, we don't love him. Yeah. The plan was to place this body, this, look alike, corpse, in the patent laboratory, in the building that he owned, then cause an explosion in the building, disfiguring the corpse, so much that they could pass it off as Pite's cells body without a lot of suspicion. And then once they'd faked his death, Pite's cell was gonna go into hiding and homes and Pite's cells wife, Carey, would split the $10,000 insurance payout.

Yeah, right, baby. Homes just taken that full 10. Sounds great. But I'm gonna murder all you. Yeah. On the morning of September 1st, the doorbell rang at the apartment Homes was sharing with Georgiana.

And he went downstairs to open the door. And it was the police. He came back inside and he told Georgiana that the man at the door was from the Pennsylvania Railroad Company. He said he had been working with them on a contract to sell copiers. Chris remember he had a weird copier business

at one point. No, I literally forgot that. He liked it. It was a fake copier business, like ABC copiers or something like that. But he's like, oh yeah, it's this guy. He's like, works with a real low company. Just like, you know, we have a contract. We're going to sell copiers.

That's when he told Georgiana. That's why I say I don't know what Georgiana knew. She knew some things, but he would lie to her about a lot of things. Totally. Because later, Holmes told investigators that this man was actually Benjamin Pitesel at the door. And he had come to tell Holmes that unfortunately, his youngest child, Wharton, was sick, and his wife had asked him to actually return

to St. Louis and Lewis and help with the children. Yeah. So he was like, I can't do this scheme with you. I have to leave and take care of my kid. Oh my kid. This was really going to fuck up Holmes' plans. And immediately, he made the decision that Pite's L was not leaving, Philly. Oh, shit. So this man comes to Holmes'

and says, my youngest child is sick. And this in Holmes' like, you're not leaving. And I'm gonna make sure. Do you think that he was worried that Pite's L was starting a freak out? It was gonna like alert authorities. He was probably worried about that. And he was pissed.

He was pissed. His plan was fucked out. One thing about Holmes was like, don't double cross him. Don't fuck with him. Don't fuck with his schemes. If you even show slight backing out or and even have valid reasons. Even if you're saying, my kid is sick, I gotta leave. He's like, betrayal. Like, he immediately looks at that. backing out or and even has valid reasons. Even if you're saying my kid is sick, I gotta leave.

He's like betrayal. He immediately looks at that. It's like, you don't value our shit here as much as you should. I know that you have to die now. Yeah, that don't understand when your kid is sick. Yeah. And then they're like,

betrayal, fuck you. I'm gonna fuck you over now. Put that on a list somewhere. Exactly. It's crazy. So that's exactly what happened. Was he was like, oh, your kid is sick? I'm gonna fuck your world up now.

And it's like, oh, okay, he's just trying to go home and be a dad, but like, okay. But like, fuck him, right? Yeah, fuck him. So he was, I think he was just really fucking mad that he fucked up his plan. And he figured that actually killing Benjamin would probably be easier than faking it at this point.

And since he was mad already, he was like, I wanna kill him now. So then you have to worry about his whole family, which I have a feeling he will. Yeah. He's not too worried about his whole family. In his later confession, Holmes said that Pytzel sent, quote, discouraging letters purporting to be from his wife that caused Pytzel to begin drinking heavily. Okay.

Then he claimed that on the second, September, yeah, September 2nd, he showed up at the B.F. Perry Laboratory and found Pytzel in a drunken stupor. That's what he's claiming in his confession. So the next day, he said, he was upset about his wife and what was going on, and then we found him in a drunken stupor at the laboratory. And he said, quote, this was an easy matter. As I was acquainted with his habits, and so sure was I of finding him thus incapacitated, that when the day came upon which it was convenient for me to kill him, even before I went to his house, I packed my trunk and made other arrangements to leave Philadelphia in a hurried flight immediately

after his death. Wow. So he's literally like, it was very convenient for me to kill him the next day, because I knew he was so upset, it was very convenient for me to kill him the next day because I knew he was so upset about his child that he was going to be drunk at the laboratory. And I was already on my way. And I was already ready to kill him. So I figured I'd just pack everything up and be ready to go. You got a friend. Yeah. Like holy shit. Jesus Christ. So according to the confession, Holmes said he entered the building, he went to the second floor, and that's where he found Pite's cell passed out. He said, quote, only one difficulty presented itself.

It was necessary for me to kill him in such a manner that no struggle or movement of his body should occur. That's the only issue, not that you're murdering your lung. Not at all. A friend and associate. Basically, and father of five. Yes, seriously. Basically, he had to kill him and make A friend and associate. Basically in father of five. Yes, seriously. Basically he had to kill him and make it look like an accident

or suicide instead of murder. And that was his concern. So he tied his hands and feet. And then he soaked his entire body in, like in, I think it was a bent, it was a benzene. It was like some chemical. And then he just burned him alive. Yeah, that'll look like suicide.

Burned him alive. That's so horrific. He burned this man alive. Like, didn't like the building on fire, just burned him alive first and then was gonna like building on fire. So didn't even bother to light the building on fire and leave, he burned this man alive in front of him.

I feel like he had to have done something like so fucked up like that to somebody before. Like more obviously putting somebody in that enclosed room is fucked up, but even like more than that. Cause you don't just burn your fucking front in the associate and just be like, man, moving on. Well, and in his confession, he said,

so horrible of this torture than writing of it, I've been tempted to attribute his death to some humane means, not with a wish to spare myself, but because I fear that it will not be believed that one can be so heartless and depraved. So, do you think he really did do that then or do you think he's bluffing? He definitely did. He definitely did.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. It's like proven. Yeah. So, once the body was sufficiently disfigured and basically burned beyond recognition, Holmes claimed that he removed the bindings from his wrists and ankles, and then he said he quote,

poured into his stomach one in one half ounces of chloroform so that at the time of the post-mortem examination, the coroner's physician would be warranted in reporting that the death with that was accidental. What? So once he'd burned the body, homes through things around and ran sack the room to make it look like an accidental explosion had caused damage to the remains. Then he went further and he had like a detailed narrative to the scene.

He broke the bottle of chloroform and benzene, but he had used. Then left an extinguished match near the spilled liquid. So it made it look like Pite's cell had attempted to light his pipe too close to the flammable liquids and caused an explosion. That actually is like, like I would never think to do something like that.

It kind of worked. It makes sense. Like it was a, this is what I mean. Like he's a fucking idiot, but he's cunning. But unfortunately he's smart when it comes to fucking terrible shit. That's street smarts. Yeah. Now, with Pite's elder dead and murdered,

and the scene looking to be an accident, he rushed back to the apartment and told Georgiana that he closed the deal on the copiers and they would be leaving for Indianapolis immediately. So we'd already set that whole thing up. Like close that deal that I told you about yesterday. And in his mind he's like, yeah, close the deal. He also told her that if anyone asked, she should tell them that they were bound for Harrisburg,

Pennsylvania. Okay. And he explained this by saying that the St. Louis St. Louis stuff wasn't fully settled. And if too many people knew where they were, he could be arrested again. So off the, and she was like, okay. So off they went that evening,

and they boarded the 10, 25 PM train to Indianapolis. You have to imagine she probably was scared of him to send a drink. Oh, for sure. And that's probably why she didn't, if she didn't question things. She wasn't going to ask. She was just like, you know what? I don't want to be part of this. So I keep my nose clean.

Now two days later, Pite's L's body was discovered by Eugene Smith, who was a local inventor in the area who'd been in to talk to and see B.F. Perry. Pite's L.K. Pite's L.K. A week or so earlier. Now he had stopped in to speak with Perry a few times since the man had opened the patent laboratory. And he was really excited because they had kind of talked about him making money off of some of his inventions.

Now they're going to patent some of them. So the morning of September 4th, he tried to walk into the patent office to speak to him, but the door was locked. This was strange to him because it was during working hours, so he called the police. They sent officer George Lewis and he broke down the door. He found Benjamin Pite's L's rotting body on the second floor of the apartment.

And as far as anyone knew, B.F. Perry was last seen alive on Saturday, September 1st. That's when the last people had seen him alive, besides Holmes. I think it was a delivery boy that had brought a message that day. That was the last person who had seen him. That message that was brought to him, it's like even worse, because that was a telegram, they believe, from Carrie Pytzel informing them of Wharton's illness. So they think, the last person to see him besides Holmes was that little message boy, the telegram boy. And that telegram was the real telegram

saying that Wharton was sick. Oh, no. It's just like really sad, because he was trying to get home to that child. Pitezel was discovered, quote, lying on his back on the floor with his right hand clasped over his heart and what appeared to be blood about his head.

Given the way that the scene looked to detectives, it was pretty much assumed that he had been holding in his right hand a bottle of benzene and was in the act of lighting his pipe when a terrible explosion occurred knocking him to the floor. The body was bred in for an autopsy and and the corner, he was not so sure. He could not identify the cause of death. He was like, I can't say for sure what this cause of death is. I feel like it could be something else. Why? Why did he pour chloroform into his stomach? I think it was like, I don't know if it was because it meant it would look like he inhaled the chloroform when that happened. He did it too close to the liquids.

Or maybe he was trying to make it look like a suicide as well. Like maybe it would muddle the findings a little bit. There was an inquest in the corner, Dr. William Scott testified, quote, I went to the house expecting to find a man burned to death or blown to death by an explosion. Instead, we found the face discolored and distorted or full of pools. The odor was terrible. His tongue was swollen and stuck out of his mouth and red fluid issued from his mouth.

Any little pressure on the stomach or over the chest here would cause this fluid to flow more rapidly. It just didn't make sense to him as it was being presented as an accident. He said the state of the room didn't really jive with him either. He thought it was very staged. It didn't look like an explosion caused everything. He said it looked like somebody had just thrown shit around. Yeah.

But it was the chloroform and the stomach that actually set off the most alarm bells. I had a feeling because it's just random as fuck. So, yeah, so as a coroner, he was aware that if Pitezel had ingested the chloroform before his death, the harsh chemical would have caused a lot of irritation to the stomach lining. But when the stomach contents was observed, there was no irritation. That's because it was put in his body after his death and it was clear. Now Scott couldn't be certain what specifically had caused the man's death because it was

so badly disfigured, but they were pretty sure it had happened suddenly and was not the result of an explosion. Now despite this testimony by this coroner, the jury delivered, quote, a verdict of death from inhalation of flames or from some poison, the character of which is unknown. I can understand why the jury was confused because there's just so many elements to that to understand. Well, and what's worse is his body was held at the morgue for a few days, and then it

was just buried in an unmarked potter's grave. Oh, because nobody knew that he's not, nobody knows he's Pite's cell. So at the time, it's kind of seeming like his plan is going to work here he's gonna be able to use this right you know, yeah, so while this was all happening and a jury is trying to determine Whether this man they know as B.F. Perry was murdered or killed by accident Holmes is on his way back from Indianapolis to St. Louis St. Louis now Where he's going to meet Carrie Pytzel? Because remember she was there she was trying to get Pytzel back to St. Louis St. Louis now, where he's going to meet Carrie Pytzel. Because remember, she was there. She was trying to get Pytzel back to St. Louis St. Louis

and she knows about the plan. Now, unfortunately, for Holmes, word of Pytzel's death had reached the family before he could get there to break the news. And he found Carrie Pytzel inconsolable. Oh. Like, inconsolable.

I can't imagine. Now, Holmes decided, because people knew that like he was using that alias, Piedzel, inconsolable. Oh. Like, inconsolable. I can't imagine. Now, Holmes decided, because people knew that, like, he was using that alias, so it was getting around to his family. People back home, yeah. So Holmes decided to just lie to carry and insisted that her husband was actually alive and that he was in hiding until they were going to be able to get that $10,000. So he was basically like, no, this is the plan.

No, the plan is going to court. Like, don't worry, that we want you to, this is the plan. He's going to court like, don't worry, that we want you to believe that it was him. That's the whole plan. But they said, we need to get the $10,000 first. Once we get that from the insurance, then he'll come out of hiding. And then he said, but don't in order to do that,

someone has to go to Philadelphia and claim the body as Benjamin Pitesell. Okay, he's so fucking evil. He is. So Carrie giving her hope that she's gonna get find her husband again. Yeah. Now Carrie was concerned about traveling to St. Louis,

from St. Louis St. Louis to Philadelphia because her child is sick. And also, he didn't want her to go there because that could muddle something. So he was like, who can we get that can be like a little bit down a level from Carrie? A little more or not. So home convinced her to send in Pite's L's teenage daughter Alice. And her place is going to use a kid. And he even claimed that the girl could stay with his cousin. No. Many Williams. No, no, no, no, no, she's dead. Yep.

Well, she was in Philadelphia. No. This way, he could still stay on track to get the money from insurance. But in the meantime, Jeff DeHau, the gray... Why are there so many characters? The morally gray lawyer. The morally corrupt Jor-Hau. He started drafting documents that would give him power of attorney over carry that would be necessary to claim the entire $10,000

for homes. Not a POA. Nope. So six days after his death, Fidelity Mutual Insurance received a telegram reporting that the dead man from Philadelphia, known as BF Perry, was probably Benjamin Pitesel. This is so much.

Did you even fucking research this? It's the same. And they said Benjamin Pitesel has actually a large insurance policy with the orange insurance company. So the death was still looked at as suspicious. So agents at Fidelity Mutual were like, we would like a little more information before we pay out this policy. Right.

So they looked further and saw that the only other name listed on the policy was H.H. Holmes. His actual name. His actual name. So they went about finding Holmes and to do this, they sent a letter to Myrta in Wilmot. His wife. Myrta still lives. Yeah, she still lives, right?

Okay. I don't know what happened there, but after a little bit of a delay, Holmes did get in touch with Fideli, me too. I don't know if Myrta just called him. I was like, hey, I just got this letter. So it was like, what's going on?

Do you know what was he keeping in touch with her? I think he was. Like, he was still under the guy that they were married. Only a little bit. I know it was he keeping in touch with her? I think he was. So she was still under the guise that they were married. Only a little bit. I think it was one of those things where it was like, they she probably knew that he was gone. But like, it's weird.

Okay. But my own mind. Yeah, exactly. My own mind is correct. Now Holmes replies to the fidelity insurance company and tells the agent that he'd only just learned that the body was in Philadelphia. So he said, I'll go there immediately and we will identify this man and get back to you.

Okay. Now again, Holmes wouldn't allow Kerry to identify the body and Kerry really didn't want to leave her kid anyway. And she probably wouldn't have wanted to see that body. Yeah. So he told the insurance company that she was too ill to come. And you know, he was going to have to go. But they were like, no, you can't just go. And that's when they were like, you need to bring a family member and he was like, I'll bring Alice. Especially because he's the one listed.

So of course, he's gonna be like, yeah, that's him. Yeah, that's totally fine. On September 20th, Holmes met Alice, Pytzel, and jumped to Howe in Philadelphia. And she wrote a letter to Carrie, her mother later, and she said of meeting Holmes. She referred to him as Mr. Howard. She said, quote, I don't like him to call me babe and child and dear

and all such trash. She's like, fuck this guy. She thought he was a pig. Like she knew right away. She had his number. Yup. A few days later, Alice and how the lawyer show up at the Fidelity Mutual Office,

Holmes joins them there. And they all provided the agents with like some notable things that would basically identify. But yeah, exactly. I was trying to think of the word. That would identify this as Benjamin Pite's. Okay. Things of this were like he had a mole on his back, he had a scar on his leg, he had a twisted fingernail that had occurred out of an accident. Oh, that's interesting.

And he had very unusual dentition. He had a lot of spaces in his teeth. Okay. So a lot of very particular things. Is dentition just what your teeth look like? Yeah, I've never heard of that. Really? Yeah.

It's a nice word, it feels like. Dintition. Dintition. You have a nice dentition over there. Anything that ends in shun, I always feel has a nice word. It feels like dentition. Dintition. You have a nice dentition over there. Anything that ends in shun, I always feel has a nice like, mm-hmm. The body had been exhumed now.

And when they got to the cemetery, it had been moved to a shed and was it being examined by Dr. Matternice? In the shed. And that happened a lot. That happened a lot. I know Jack the Ripper case. I know I remember you just always think like,

yeah, the body in the shed. Yeah, and the coroner is just doing an autopsy in a shed. Vibing in the shed. Dr. Mattern was the other coroner who was with Dr. Scott that did the original autopsy. By that time his remains were in an advanced state of take-home position. One would think.

And they were given the description, the unique marks on the body. But Mattern insisted the state of take-home position. One would think. And they were given the description, the unique marks on the body. But my turn insisted the state of the remains kind of made it impossible to positively identify the body. At one point, the doctor couldn't find the big scar that they were talking about that was supposed to be on his leg. Holmes was present for this. And he got frustrated and impatient. And he grabbed the leg apparently,

rubbed the flesh so that the burned layer of skin moved away, and then revealed the scar. He's a fucking monster. And then was like, do you see? This is Benjamin Pytzel. We told you. Like, was pissed.

It was like, here it is. I figured it out. Like, my God. Who, who, like, show us that It was like, here it is. I figured it out. Like, my God. Who, who, like, show us that? Who does show us how many hungry you are without doing that? Who's the hungus does that? Not I. Not even the coroner was willing to do that.

He was like, no, okay. But at that point, they were like, all right. Of course, Alice being there and having you see that, that's her father. Yep. And they were like, okay, cool that you think it's him. Alice, what do you think? You're the determining factor. If you say this is not your father, it's not. She must have been scared. Yeah. So apparently, again, Pitesl had that unique set of teeth. Yeah. So a lot of spaces

which were very easily identifiable. And apparently Dr. Matt Turn was the only one who actually gave a shit about Alice. And they had to present this body to her and have her look at the teeth. And they said before doing that, he removed, quote, as well as he could everything that was repulsive from the mouth. And then he asked Alice to look at the teeth. And she said, she looked into his mouth and she told the doctor that the teeth, quote, appeared to be like her poppus. And then she left the shed immediately. That's horrific.

Now, the agents from Fidelity Mutual waited a full day and then they let Alice and Howe know that they found Alice's identification satisfactory. So typically these kind of claims are very slow and methodical to be processed. But for good reason. Lawyer Howe there, he appealed to the agents

and he said the pipe cells are very poor. They have a sick kid. They could use the money as soon as possible. Can you expedite it? Yeah. So after a little discussion, they agreed to pay the claim immediately and they took out any of the costs

that they had to use to identify the remains. You know everyone in that fidelity office was like, what the fuck is going on here? They were like, some shit is going down. The break room was popping up. It was the water cooler. It was bubbling. The coffee was filled to the brub.

They were all like something stinks here. You wanna go to the pub later to talk about the shit? Seriously, so right away, a check was written to Carrie Pytzel, but that check was given right to Holmes. And the check was in the amount of $9,715 in 85 cents, because they took out the costs that they had to use to exume and identify the body. But back then, that must have been so much money.

A lot of money. So with that check, Holmes immediately boarded a train for St. Louis, St. Louis, and he was going to deliver that check to Carrie, but have her immediately give the money back to him. So he wrote a letter to the company also, by the way, and he wrote it as carry, thanking them for the prompt payment. And they used that letter and promotional materials for a little while.

Oh my God. They used a fucking letter from each home. They had no idea. Oh, they know. Now Holmes's plan had always been to claim the money from the insurance scam and then flee to Europe. Right. And that's where he was, you know, none of the creditors, nobody was going to be able

to get him there. So it's strange that during this return trip from Philadelphia, he sent a letter to his brother in Gilminton to let him know that he would be returning to Gilminton in the coming days. I didn't even remember that he had a brother. Yeah. Holmes told his brother he'd been on a trip to Minneapolis in 1888. And when he was there, a train crashed, and for the six years that followed, he'd been suffering from amnesia.

Incorrect. And he said he'd regained his memory, and he was planning to return home to just resume his life with Clara and Robbie. What is this about? What? Because he had like no, he didn't have any plans to do that. No, no plans to do that. So he just poured on a Tuesday.

Just be the dick. Now when Holmes arrived in St. Louis, St. Louis, with the money from the insurance payout, he gave $2,500 to Jeb DeHau as payments. So I'm surprised he got that. insurance payout, he gave $2,500 to Jeb DeHau as payments. I'm surprised to hear you know that. And he only gave $500 to carry. And he said that the remaining $6,700 for himself

was because her husband had owed him money and had outstanding debts. And that was what he was gonna take. What a piece of absolute dung. Yeah. How dung? She just had to accept it. Elephant dung, how about that? Now what's worse is Carrey's husband Benjamin

now has to be in hiding and they have to go get a mataphyding but he's still in hiding right now. And she's got five kids that she's trying to support that now she has like almost no income doing. So she's panicking, she's like, I can't do this. Oh my God. And it was like, you know what? It might be better if I took your 12-year-old Nelly and your eight-year-old towered and they could come live with their sister Alice in Indiana for a little while. And they can be

looked after by my cousin, Minnie Williams, who's dead until Benjamin comes out of hiding and then you can all re-join together. So what you're telling me is he was like, I'm going to kill these kids. Now, Carrie Pites all agreed because she probably had no other choice at that point. She's desperate. Yeah. And on September 27th, she transferred custody of Nellie and Howard to Holmes. And he sent a telegram to Alice in Indianapolis telling her to be ready to leave the following day because they were going to go stay in India. They were going to go stay in India. They were gonna go stay with many Williams. Now, on September 28th, Alice met Holmes

and her two younger siblings at the train station in Indianapolis and the four of them went to Cincinnati. Okay. Now we're in Ohio. Once there, he registered at the Atlantic House under the name Alexander Cook. And he got the kids settled, and then he wired Georgiana and asked

that she come to join them all. So he explained that he had come into some money, because remember, Georgiana was staying with some family in Indiana. So he explained that he had come into some money from someone purchasing the land in Fort Worth. Okay. I know there's a lot, that's what I mean

when I say I'm not cramming everything in the one episode because there's enough with just this. No there is. Just enough places, enough people, he's traveling everywhere. Do you see my eyes every now and again just adding it up in my hands like, okay, that's where we are. And that's why I'm like it just needs to be consumed in bit small bits so that you can understand where he is at any given time. No I'm happy about the way that you're doing it. It's high. I would turn it off at some point and just be like,

I don't know. That's, this one's different from Jack the Ripper, obviously, in a lot of ways, but like in very later. Jack the Ripper was at least like Whitechapel. Yeah, right. We are in Whitechapel. We're in fucking Massachusetts. I'm wearing a hair like.

We're in Ohio, then we're in Philadelphia, literally in so many other places. Colorado, Chicago, Texas, Indiana, Cincinnati, St. Louis. See, what I knew of the H.H. Holmes story was just the murder trial. Just Chicago. That's all I knew. Because he's known as the Chicago serial killer.

But really, he was the everywhere killer. He was. Now, it was at this time that Holmes was becoming really paranoid. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere.

Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere. Everywhere to crack a little bit. And according to Adam Selzer, who we linked that source in the show notes, Holmes claimed that he received tips that detectives were on his tail. Right, and it was starting to get to him. I don't know how much he knew whether he was, you know,

just operating purely out of paranoia or he was actually like had the facts, but he was being pursued by a lot of different agencies. So, and now the Fidelity Mutual Insurance Company was added to that list because now they were like, some's are right here. Now, what made them feel that way? So, I'll tell you.

So, in early October, the lead detective with the Fidelity Mutual Insurance Company, W.E. Gary, got a telegram. This telegram was not a telegram. This telegram was from Lawrence Herrigan, who was the chief of the St. Louis St. Louis police. This telegram from the chief of police was letting him know that a prisoner in St. Louis St. Louis

had come forward with information that basically alluded to the fact that the Fidelity Insurance Company had recently been defrauded in a big way. I knew that motherfucker was gonna come forward and try to get some shit off his 25-year sentence. Yeah, right? It was from Marion Headstone.

Yeah. Who knew something? Why would you not think? Why you trusted? Like, if you're gonna tell anybody, tell somebody with like three years, so they have to look forward to. But this guy's got nothing to lose.

He doesn't give a shit. And everything to gain, because he's giving information. He's thinking like three years, so they have to look forward to. But this guy's got nothing to lose. He doesn't give a shit. And everything to gain, because he's giving information. He's thinking like, oh, let me help you out and get a couple of years off my sentence. Yep. And the letter, the telegram, gave all the details of the scheme

that Holmes had told him about how they were going to fake Pite Sel's death for money. And at the time, he had offered hedgepeth $500 for his pardon at which would be to recommend an attorney of Ilb Repute, which he did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did. He did smoother piece of work and that he was sure to work and it was sure to work and that Howard H.H. Holmes was one of the smoothest and slickest man that he had ever heard tell of. So how was already singing his praises like weeks later? So Mary and Hedgepath likely felt compelled to inform authorities of this just to get something out of it obviously. He was also salty because he

was never given his $500 and it seemed to him like every one of the skimmers Had just got what they needed from him and then a band and ship right he's like I got snacks to buy on this commissary So he was out to fuck them over but detectives did believe him and the details he gave and the superiors at fidelity mutual They thought actually that hedge path may be lying And a few days had passed before they finally were willing to believe this and that they were like They thought actually that hedge pet may be lying. And a few days had passed before they finally were willing to believe this and that they were like, you know what, we're gonna give W.E. Gary

the detective for fidelity insurance. Thank you. They're gonna give him a approval to pursue homes. But it took a few days for them to like investigate it. Cause they had just paid this out. They don't want to believe that they just got fucked over. Yeah, that's a lot of money. So they looked into it and they were like,

I think this guy is telemetry. Yeah, what'd you say? It was like $9,000, right? Yeah, it was a lot of money. It was almost 10. It was actually almost 10. It was $9,700, I think. So we're in there.

Round up. But homes had been lucky that his previous issues with the law were under so many aliases. And there had been so much time between them that they were kind of tough to connect the dots. But this scheme was so fresh and so big that it was much easier to trace and he had left too many missing pieces. So now Detective Gary is on Holmes' tail.

And he was Detective Gary so funny. Detective Gary's hilarious. I think all I can think of is Gary from below deck. Yeah, and so any any like Mr. Gary like that's a detective Gary. It just doesn't sound right. But now Holmes is having to shuttle the Pite Zell children all over Cincinnati for the remainder of this time. Yeah. And then he ships them to Indianapolis for the first few weeks of October. And in Indianapolis, homes in Georgiana checked into some very fancy, like, swanky hotel.

Like penthouse situation. Yeah, and they had the Pite Cell children at a hotel down the block. And they registered them as the canning children when they put them in the hotel. Weird. A few days later, he moved them again this time to the circle house, which was another hotel in the city. Weird. A few days later, he moved them again, this time to the circle house,

which was another hotel in the city. He's like shuddling them everywhere. They must have been like, what the fuck is going on? They were so, like, they were like, what the fuck is happening here? Like, I just wanna go home. And Alice, I feel like, was on to him all the time.

Oh, she was like, on the run from many like law enforcement agencies, many of altitude, he made time during this whole thing to attempt another scam. What? While they were in Indianapolis, Holmes and Georgiana began touring properties with a realtor. This realtor thought that they were a couple who wanted to buy a house in the city. Yeah.

Holmes had told the realtor that his wife had inherited some property and they were planning to trade the title to that property for something in Indianapolis that he could then sell for cash. Okay. This sounded insane to me when I read it, but apparently the bank had already approved this exchange, like in reality. Weird.

The problem, however, was that the offer had an October 10th expiration date. Okay. And the property wouldn't have officially been accessible to Georgiana until her 25th birthday, which was not until October 17th. Oh shit. So Holmes abandoned the realtor and never went through the plan, but he was planning to try to go through this before

it was gonna be legal. And after he was arrested, the realtor, who was scammed here, told the press, quote, Holmes was a good looking fellow, but had a kind of uneasy look in his eyes. So he tried to fuck over this other person while he's on the run like the heat is on. The heat is like the heat is on.

It's more than on. It's real on. Well, while he toured the city with Georgiana, trying to set up some other schemes, the Pite-Zell children were just spending their time in a hotel room alone. That's so sad. And during this time, they were writing daily to their mom in St. Louis at St. Louis,

and they were concerned because they never received anything back. And on October 6th, that one point, Alice wrote to her mother and said, Why don't you write to me? I've not got a letter from you since I have been away, and it will be three weeks day after tomorrow. Carrie Pitesel had been writing to her children. She had written back to every single letter. Holmes just kept them.

What? Just kept them from the kids. Just a fuck with the kids. Why would you even do that? Because he's an actual monster. Evil. Yeah. So in October,

there's that they're mourning the loss of their father, being shuttled to all these new places, and now they think their mom just abandoned them. Yeah, holy, it's awful. He is truly torturing them. And I feel as though it's gonna escalate, and I just can't believe that's their last days. Yeah.

Homes went to a reality, a reality, why could I never say reality? Reality? Realty? Realty. Why can I not say that word? That tripped me up in the last one I did, right? So I feel like they're real at her, but it's just realtor.

Realtor. Realty. That's what it is. Realty. A realty office. It's losing all meaning, but really is. I'm sorry everybody. I don't know why my like my brain knows it, but my mouth won't say it. It's a real estate office. A real estate office in Irvington which is a suburb of Indianapolis. Yeah. And he started making arrangements to rent a house called the Landcaster House. It was a small cottage on Union Avenue. I would not rent that house. He got very hostile, which was rare for him to do in public because, remember, he is mystical, completely collected now at this point, because he was demanding the keys be given to him now.

And he was like, I'm in a big hurry, I need them now, I'm not going through any of the shit I have to go through, like lost his mind. And the realtor, there you go. Later said quote, I remember the man very well, because I did not like his manner. I felt that he should have had more respect for my gray hairs.

That's amazing. I love that. They're like respect your elders. I'm old, I don't know why he was mean. But a few days later, Holmes had a large oak stove delivered to Lancaster House because he did rent it. And also dropped off a case of surgical tools in town to be sharpened.

A large oak stove and sharpened surgical tools. That sounds normal. So everything's fine. Oh, no. In the afternoon on an early October, and sharpen surgical tools. That sounds normal. So everything's fine. Oh, no. In the afternoon on an early October, Holmes brought Howard Pitezel and his trunk of belongings.

Howard is the 10-year-old son. Belongings to the Lancaster House. And according to his confession later, they arrived a little after 8 p.m. and Holmes called Howard into the house. And he told him that he had to go to bed at once. And then he said he gave him the first, the fatal dose of medicine. And he said, he, he liked poison to him. Yeah, essentially. And he said, as soon as he had ceased to breathe,

I caught his body into pieces that would pass through the door of the stove and by the combined use of gas and corn cobs and proceeded to burn it with as little feeling as though it had been some inanimate object. What? That was his own confession. That's a ten-year-old. I poisoned this ten-year-old boy and I cut up his body and then put him in a stove and I felt such little feelings about it that he might have been, well, has been an inanimate object.

Oh my God. Yeah. So it's most likely that he had poisoned his food to kill him. That's what everybody thinks. Of course, sweetie. And when they searched the property after he was arrested, they found a bottle of cyanide, an amount of wolf spain. And there was also, he had purchased a cocaine solution

from a pharmacist a few days earlier. Once he had disposed of Howard's body, he went back at the train station by 9 p.m., so that all happened within an hour, according to him. And he got his mail, and he boarded a train for Chicago. So the next day, and I don't know what he did there, but he returned to an inapolis the next day. And he got Georgiana and the other children

and put them on separate trains. Georgiana on one, children and put them on separate trains. Georgiana on one children on the other bound for Detroit. We're going to Michigan. So when they were going to Michigan. Why are we going another place? When they arrived in Detroit, Holmes checked himself and Georgiana into the hotel Normandy under the name G. Howell and wife. I love that back then.

You didn't need a name as a wife. You were just a wife. Yeah, and then one to like, we don't need your name. And they went a few blocks away and checked Nellie and Alice into the new western hotel. Then the next day they moved them to a boarding house run by a woman named Ray Mae Ralston. Holmes was definitely starting to fray at the seams.

He was starting to come apart. The children were starting to lose it, being alone all the time, not understanding where Howard is now, not understanding what's going on. He's dragging them all over the place, leaving them a whole loan for days at a time. Alice wrote letters to her grandparents, and October 14th, she wrote,

we have to stay in all the time. Howard is not with us right now. All that Nell and I can do is draw, and I get so tired sitting that I could get up and fly almost. I'm getting so homesick that I don't know what to do. I wish they had just run away. Now a day after she sent that letter, Carrie and Wharton Pitesell, Wharton was the younger son that was sick, they arrived in Detroit and checked into a hotel just a few blocks away from the boarding house where they didn't know that Alice and Ellie were staying.

Holy shit. Holmes had written Carrie telling her to come there where she could finally be reunited with Benjamin and her children. Oh my God. When they got there, he's fucking awful. When they got there, he goes, oh, sorry, can't re-unite you yet because it's like too heavily populated here.

So you're gonna have to wait a little longer. Oh my God, he is just fucked up. A few days after coming to Detroit, he rented a small house on East Forest Avenue, which he told the landlord was for his sister and her children, which he was probably gonna pass George Yana and the kids off. Yeah.

He then dug a four-foot by three-foot hole in the backyard. Okay. Neighbors noticed. So this was clearly where he was intending to kill Alice and Nelly. No one is sure why, but he decided not to murder the girls there at this time. Instead, he told Kerry Pytzel that Benjamin was waiting for her now in Toronto, Canada, and she should travel there. And he was going to, and so he sent Alice and Nelly back to Indianapolis

where they were going to be waiting for them when she and Benjamin returned from Canada, Canada. Okay. This is when Kerry was like, what the fuck is going on? And she was concerned. And this is when she was like, where the fuck are my kids? Like where are they? And he was like, don't worry, they're being cared for by a widow lady,

but he wouldn't give any more details. Yeah, that sounds totally fine. Now, as all of this is unraveling and he's losing complete control of this situation clearly. I also just feel like he's going insane. Oh, he is. It seems like he's going mad because he's just doing like none of this makes any sense. It's chess moves that make no sense.

Right. He's just sending her up there. He's sending it. He doesn't know what he's he was just definitely lateral moves. Yeah, he was definitely intending to kill Nelly and Alice in that house in Detroit. But then he didn't. I don't know why. I wonder if one of the neighbors like came by or something.

I wonder if a neighbor saw him digging your right and was like, Hey, what's that about? Hodenley was like, Oh, nothing. But Detective Gary had enlisted. That's so funny. And Detective Gary is like the real MVP here because he got the Pinkerton Detective Agency on the case. And they had made a lot of progress in finding homes. They'd narrowed him down to the Detroit area.

And this is why I believe maybe he left, like me, it could have been that he was planning to kill them. Or the police were coming in hot. But I think they came a little hotter. Sure. I don't know how aware he became of that situation, but thinking now, like the fact that he moved so quickly out of there, I think he may have been.

He was tipped off somehow. And that's probably why he had been in the hospital. how aware he became of that situation, but thinking now like the fact that he moved so quickly out of there, I think he may have been. He was tipped off somehow. And that's probably why he had been in the whole plan. Maybe he saw some kind of police presence. He could have. So they made it to Canada. And as soon as they got there, Holmes checked Kerry and Wharton into the Union House under

the name Mrs. Adams. Then he disappointed them again. And he said, oh, you just miss Benjamin. He said Benjamin had received word of detectives looking for him in the city. And he had actually fled to Montreal now. Oh my God. And Holmes then returned to the train station to he got Alice and Nelly at the train station and brought the girls to the house he'd rented on Vincent Street. And he told the neighbors he had rented this one for his sister as well,

who was going to be coming from Hamilton, Ontario. And this is a different house than the one for you. Different house. Doug, that's true. Okay. The house had been rented on a six-month lease, and the neighbors later told investigators, they thought it was real strange,

that the man had rented the entire house, yet he only had a bed frame, a trunk, and a mattress, a dog wouldn't even sleep on. Oh, what does that mean? So Holmes then got Georgiana at the train station, and they went off to Niagara Falls where they stayed one night in the Imperial Hotel, before they went back to Toronto and checked into the Palmer House Hotel as H. Howell and wife. Well, the Palmer House is super haunted.

There you go. Probably from him. So, on October 24th, Holmes went to the house on Vincent Street where he put Nellie and Alice. He borrowed a shovel from a neighbor, neighbor, telling him I'm going to fix a place in the cellar to hold potatoes. The fuck? And he went into the basement of the house

and dug a fresh grave. No. After he did this, he went back to Carrie Pytzel and told her, oh shit. Howard's not there yet. And he said, up he went back to Carrie Pytzel and told her, oh shit, Howard's not there yet. And he said, you gotta go to Ogden's Burg New York because Benjamin had fled there now. At this point, I'd be like,

you're not sending me another fucking place. But he put Carrie on the train. But she also misses her husband. And she's just trying to get her family back together. Oh, God. Put Carrie on the train and he went back to the Vincent Street House. Holmes was strangely when he confessed to this.

He was less sensational than he normally is. Really? The story of Nelly analysis murders is less dramatic and less like he was less excited to tell this story, I feel. In his confession, he said he had taken a large trunk to the house on Vincent Street. He'd cut a small hole in the trunk, large enough for a host of it. This is pretty awful.

It sounds like it will be. He wouldn't explain how, but he got both girls in the trunk alive. And he, quote, ended their lives by connecting the gas with the trunk. So he gasped them in a trunk. Holy fuck. Once they were killed, he opened the trunk

and he found them in his words, quote, their little blackened and distorted faces. Oh my God. So he then took them out of the trunk. He stripped them of their clothing and buried their bodies in the grave and the basement in the Vincent House. Oh my God.

And he said, quote, without a particle of covering save the cold Earth, which I heaped upon them with fiendish delight. That's the only time he got, like... He just gasped two children to death, and then he buried them in fiendish delight. Mm-hmm. I don't know how he dies, but I hope they did something brutal to him.

Well, in what's worse, so you listen to that story and you're like, that's fucking terrible. But Adam Celser, he says there's a problem with that story. And he said he did kill these little girls. Of course. But that house on Vincent Street was not set up for gas. And so he says the claim of poisoning them with gas was probably not true unless he did it somewhere else.

OK. And then what's worse is that he was like, he probably poisoned their food like he did Howard. But then he just told this story. That's even worse. Which is even worse. And he's like, I don't, no matter what, he killed, brutally killed two little girls

and buried them in the basement. Right. But the fact that he is making up a like, that's our story. Like, that's our story. From something that's even grow, like, still gross is like, you just wanted to tell that story?

Like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Well, I wonder if it's like, almost he can't, now that he's in prison and he knows he's got, got, he can't kill anybody anymore. So no, he's killing people differently in his mind. Yeah, like he's killing that. By cariously through his own fantasies.

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. That is, yeah. What the fuck did he have? Yeah. I seriously. What was going on with him?

Now, the next day he returned the shovel to the neighbor and then he stuffed the girls clothing in any belongings they had into the chimney and put a fire in the fireplace to try to burn them all. So... But unfortunately, for him, he'd packed the items too tightly into the chimney. So large pieces of clothing were still in there

even after the fire went out. Oh, damn, and he didn't realize it. No, also the stupid idiot hadn't even been very thorough when he gathered up their belongings because he ended up leaving several of Alice's belongings, including a bag out in the apartment when he left. And you can't imagine she even had that many belongings at that point. Exactly.

By the time the new tenants arrived a few days later. Oh my God. They found the random clothing straps, scraps, and remnants left behind. But by this point, he was out of town. He was back and he had already left Toronto and he wasn't coming back. And is he, sorry, is he the landlord of that house or no?

He just ran to that. No, he just ran to that. Just to do that. Now, eventually this man would tell so many stories about the missing children. It would be almost like, it's like something out of fiction. He would say Benjamin, the father was in South America. He told Carrie the kids were in South America. He told Carrie the kids were in South America.

He told them now they were in Chicago, in Detroit. They were in England. They were anywhere else, but reality was just driving her insane. Yes, slowly. He was trying to drive her insane. And that is where we're going to leave parts for. Fuck you. Are you guys, I did not see that coming.

Because. What? Because he should have. What? he should have stayed in Canada and he didn't okay. I don't even know that once he returns to the United States That's when shit is going to go down for him and I don't want to start the going down process I would like I would like episode five to just be us all high-fiving and the fact that this motherfucker gets got. Oh, I can't wait to hear how. Cause I actually, I don't have any idea how he gets caught or what happens to him after he's caught. So this is him. He's leaving Toronto. He's leaving Canada. He's coming back to the United States like a big

fucking idiot. He has killed kids in Canada. He's killed kids in the United States. He is killed women in the United States. He's now killed a man in the United States and he's coming back. And the Pinkerton Detective Agency, guys, they are on his fucking tail. I'm so excited. So right here, he would have been much better off staying

in Canada. He shouldn't have gone to see, didn't he? Thank goodness he's a fucking idiot. Right. So glad he is. So we're gonna talk about his arrest. We're going to talk about the trial. We're going to talk about the wild confession.

And we're going to talk about the theories that he is Jack the Ripper, which I don't agree with. We'll talk about it. But the theories, when you put them out there, you can understand why people are interested at this. They are slightly compelling. Okay. But very interesting. And we're're gonna talk about his execution.

Ah. It's all coming in part five. It's all happening, Shina Shea. The end. The climax of this series is part five. My goodness. Yeah. All right.

Well, we hope you keep listening, and we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you go all around the world doing H.A. Cholm's type shit because like don't keep it so weird that you're detective Gary. Yeah, just be a detective. In a world full of H.A. Cholm's is be a detective Gary. And with that, we leave you. I'm so happy to hear that. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music.

Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. plus an Apple podcast. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.