Morbid - Episode 461: H.H. Holmes Part 5

Episode Date: May 22, 2023

In the final chapter of our coverage of H.H.Holmes, we talk about the theories connecting him to Jack the Ripper, his final days on the run and a trial and execution that has gone down in history. Thank you to Dave White for research assistance.ReferencesBoston Daily Globe. 1895. "At Burlington." Boston Daily Globe, August 8: 7.—. 1894. "Believes husband dead." Boston Daily Globe, November 20: 1.—. 1894. "Believes husband dead." Boston Daily Globe, November 20: 1.—. 1895. "Hard and Selfish." Boston Daily Globe, August 7: 5.—. 1894. "In the toils." Boston Daily Globe, November 18: 1.—. 1895. "Mother's Love." Boston Daily Globe, August 6: 5.Chicago Chronicle. 1895. "Tells of one crime." Chicago Chronicle, July 30: 2.—. 1895. "Trail of the fiend." Chicago Chronicle, July 21: 1.Chicago Tribune. 1894. "Spins his own web." Chacgo Tribune, November 22: 1.—. 1895. "Holmes recognized in Toronto." Chcago Tribune, July 17: 12.Daily Boston Globe. 1895. "Good Fisherman." Daily Boston Globe, August 9: 4.Galveston Daily News. 1894. "Two Texas Girls." Galveston Daily News, November 22: 1.Geyer, Frank P. 1896. The Holmes-Pitezel Case: A History of the Greatest Crime of the Century and of the Search for the Missing Pitezel Children. Philadelphia, PA: Publishers' Union.Kerns, Rebecca, Tiffany Lewis, and Cailtin McClure. 2012. Herman Webster Mudgett: Dr. H.H. Holmes or Beast of Chicago. Lecture, Radford, VA: Department of Psychology, Radford University.Larson, Erik. 2003. Devil in the White City: Murder, Magic, and Madness at the Fair that Changed America. New York, NY: Crown Publishers.Mudgett, Herman W. 1895. Holmes' Own Story. Philadelphia, PA: Burke and McFetridge Company.New York Times. 1895. "A boy Holmes' first victim." New York Times, July 31: 3.—. 1896. "Appeal of murderer Holmes." New York Times, February 4: 8.—. 1895. "Claims an alibi." New York Times, July 17: 1.—. 1896. "Holmes cool to the end." New York Times, May 8: 1.—. 1895. "Holmes enters a plea of guilty." New York Times, May 29: 1.—. 1896. "Holmes in a ton of cement." New York Times, May 9: 1.—. 1895. "Holmes sentenced to die." New York Times, December 1: 13.—. 1894. "May be charged with murder." New York Times, November 19: 2.—. 1895. "The Williams girls' fate." New York Times, July 21: 10.Philadelphia Inquirer. 1894. "Cause of death a mystery." Philadelphia Inquirer, September 6: 6.—. 1896. "Holmes' chronology." Philadelphia Inquirer, April 12: 18.—. 1896. "Holmes Confesses 27 murders." Philadelphia Inquirer, April 26: 1.Philadelphia Times. 1894. "All looking for Pitezel." Philadelphia Times, November 21: 1.—. 1894. "Perry's Peculiar Death." Philadelphia Times, September 5: 3.Selzer, Adam. 2017. H.H. Holmes: The True History of the White City Devil. New York, NY: Skyhorse Publishing.St. Louis Post-Dispatch. 1894. "Arrested Again." St. Louis Post-Dispatch, July 29: 8.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Trance. Goodness. That wasn't as epic as I thought it would sound. I thought you sounded epic. That's why I said, oh my goodness. Yeah, we're finally at the conclusion here. It's a doozy. But don't worry, because in the end,

this man gets what's coming to him. Hell, fucking yeah, he does. Get's what's coming to him. So when we, we're gonna get right into it, because this is a long one. And I'm ready to go fucking off about Jack the Ripper and the Dare Boss Letter again. So let's go.

Let's go down that path over again. Go right down that path again. So I'm just going to catch you up really quick. So this man has now killed Benjamin Pitesl and his kids. Not all of them, right? At least three of his kids. He's definitely going to kill the lady. He has sent their mother slash wife around the nation and Canada on a wild goose chase

thinking her husband is alive. All the while, Detective Gary from the insurance company he defrauded with the murder of his supposed friend and business partner, has hired the Pinkerton detective agency to help track him. They are hot on his tail now and he has left Canada and come back to the States. They're going in.

Where they are looking for him. I'm not sure why he made that move, but like, glad he did. Yeah, that was stupid. I'm really excited for the Pinkerton of it all. I'm not sure why he made that move, but like, glad he did. Yeah, that was stupid. I'm really excited for the Pinkerton of it all. I also think of it all. He really like saying Pinkerton. Pinkerton. Yeah.

Yeah, I know. But before we get into this whole thing, we are going to quickly touch upon why people think he's Jack the River. Oh, my goodness. We're going to get that right out of the way right up front so we can dive back into the story and finish it off with his execution because that's proper.

Of course, you know. That's the way we do it. It's the proper. This is how we do it. And the loss. The loss is how. So let's talk about the theories about him being Jack the Ripper.

Let us. They mostly, so he has an ancestor named Jeff Muget. Remember his name is Herman Webster Muget. How could I forget? Jeff is like his great, great, great grandson, you know, like one of those. I'm not exactly wrong. Not exactly wrong after something.

Yeah. And he firmly believes that H.H. Holmes is Jack the Ripper. Well, you are, you're all over me right now. Sorry, I love you. He's firmly believes that H.H. Holmes is jack the ripper. They are the same person. He does the grandson. Yeah, the great, great, great grandson. He, I mean, he's a former attorney, like he's a credible human. Like so far, I have not seen him. I have not seen anything about him doing like anything,

you know, nefarious. Bad or nefarious where you'd be like, why are we believing this man? But, you know, I don't know if I agree. I'm not here to say for sure because I don't know. You don't know, we don't know. He doesn't know. And I commend him for nobody knows.

There you go, she literally put up a finger to make me stop talking to say that I want you also know that. Uh, she said, wait, I didn't want the moment to pass. Sometimes I don't put up a finger to stop you. And the moment passes. Yeah, you know, I get it. Yeah. Now, he presented a ton of evidence.

He did a TED Talk in Vancouver. I think it was. Shit. He presented a bunch of exhibits. A lot of them are pretty interesting. That's as far as I think they are as interesting. My interest on tech. One of the things he presented was a letter confirmed

to be written by H.H. Holmes to his lawyer. And it was near, or 1888. And he was talking about how much he wanted to go to London. Okay. So he expressed interest in going to London. I too have done the same. Yeah.

There is that. Now, there's also the fact that Scotland Yard believed, according to witness reports, that Jack the Ripper was about five, seven, you know, somewhere in his late 20s, early mid 30s, they believed he was a doctor, you know, a very average build. Holmes was exactly 5'7. He was technically a doctor. I feel like, you know, yeah, I feel like 5'7 is also like kind of on the shorter side. Yeah.

I think it's just like, it's all pretty like, you know, average. Like nothing stands out to me. It's like, oh, that's him. Also, I know that like I witness accounts are, you know, a thing. They're tough. And I know that's really all we have to go on

in the Jack the Ripper case for these kind of things, for what he looks like. No surveillance unfortunately. Everyone needs to remember, and I hammered this idea in go on in the Jack the Ripper case for these kind of things, for what he looks like, no surveillance, unfortunately. Everyone needs to remember, and I hammered this idea and when we did the Jack the Ripper case, there was no lights. When I say there was no lights in White Chapel,

I mean, there was no lights. I mean, go outside, stand in the middle of the forest. That's probably kind of as dark. It was, it was probably darker. So like, I don't know if we can really look at like, oh, that man was five foot seven. Like I don't know. Well, that's also just so, that's such a specific measurement. Yeah, he's just a thing.

If you could say like, oh, he was like, I'm five six, so he was between my height and like five nine, I'd say. Yeah. Like, you know, and even that, I'm like five, nine. I don't know what someone who's five, nine looks like. No, but you know what, well, no, never mind, I'm dumb. Like, John is like six, three, six, four. I only compare things in heights of John.

Like I literally will look at somebody, I'll be like, well, they're almost close to John's height, so they're probably around, like that's the only way I can distinguish. I do that exact same thing in my own home. Yeah. I was measuring the area to put like a raised bed. And in my head, I said that's probably two jobs.

That's... I do the same, that's amazing. And for high time, I'm always like, that's about one and a half jobs. I do that all the time. Whatever it was supposed to be. in the six feet apart times, one John apart. One John apart. That's literally what I mean.

I feel like good John lay between me and that person. I'm good. If they can't, I better move back. It reminds me of a kill more girls when I can bring you back there all the time. Always. You did that, Sabrina. When Logan is talking about like measuring distance through crow pugs, because that's girls would, I can bring you back there all the time. Always. You did not. Sabrina.

When Logan is talking about like measuring distance through crow pugs, because that's like a Yale thing, it's like this many crow pugs to this thing. I'm like, this many jobs. Shut up Logan. So yeah, you know, there's that. So like sure, again, presented in a way where it says, you know, you put them all together and what do you got? You put them all together and what do you got? You put them all together and they all say 5'7",

they say about this age, they say about this height range, this weight range, like whatever he was a doctor. And then you say, hey, HH Holmes happens to be 5'7 and of that average weight and all that. Must be him, you know what, our give it to you. It's there, that is true.

So I will absolutely say that. You can't really, sure. I mean, a lot of other people are too, but like, sure, my H.H. Holmes is. Scott and Yard also put together and he really laid his hat on this one and a lot of people really lay their hats on this one. Scott and Yard put together a composite

of all 13 credible and corroborated eyewitness accounts of Jack the Ripper and what he looked like. But again, no lights. And again, no lights. They put it into one photo, like composited it into one human. That photo, first of all, when I look at it, I'm like, I don't know about that. I don't know about that.

Yeah, like that. When you showed it to me, I wasn't there in the TV. I'm not there. But I too don't know about that. You said in one of these that people have 1800s faces, like old-timey faces, that was not an old-timey face. That man is from 2013 at the earliest. It just did not speak to me.

But besides that, because obviously you would look at that and say, well, who gives a shit what you think? This is reality. So that photo, when compared to H.H. Holmes' photo, people think it's a great comparison. OK. And to which I say, nah. What?

Because I don't think it's a good comparison at all. In my opinion, the lip bothers me a lot. He has a very full bottom lip. AJ Chomes' bottom lip was notably fuller. In fact, it was something people talked about with him. It was a distinguishing characteristic to him that his bottom lip was a full bottom lip. Filler queen, filler queen, AJ Chomes.

But Jack the Ripper, that composite photo of what he's supposed to look like, he has no lips. And he certainly doesn't have a full bottom lip. And I'm telling you, if we are close enough, and we are able to describe enough to say he's five foot seven, he's of this age, he's of this weight, he has a list, she has high cheekbones, they would have seen that full lip. That would have been one of the things you would have heard in many of the descriptions was he had a full lip. And also, didn't you think, didn't you have a special thing with his eyes, H.H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H, okay, okay. It's like, it's really just a focusing thing. Got you, got you. Like, one eye might drift a little bit. Okay.

So I don't know if anybody would have been close enough to him to see that beside him until they, and they would have been dead. Yeah, that makes sense. But again, and the other thing is that Holmes had a very weak ass jawline. Yeah, it sucked. Like no jawline to be found,

at least in the photos that I've seen. Yeah, shaved up, you're done for it. Shaved out, and it's no good. But the composite has a pretty strong jawline to be found, at least in the photos that I've seen. Yeah, shaved up, you're done for it. Shaved that, and it's no good. But the composite has a pretty strong jawline. And it's like that seems to be a... And he has very high cheekbones. I guess you could say Holmes does too, but like, again, they're not very... I don't really think they are.

I wouldn't sit there and be like, wow, look at those cheekbones. Yeah. I think he kind of looks a little bit like a bassin' hunt. He does a little bit. A little droopy. And then there's the medical knowledge thing. We all know that medical knowledge is a hot debate when it comes to Jack the Ripper.

Some people believe wholeheartedly he had to have been a doctor or at least in the medical field. Other people believe by no means is that even something we should be looking at. And then there are other people who sit in the middle and they say, I don't know, it could be that or he could have been a butcher at the time because they had similar knowledge.

That's you. That is me. I'm on the side, like I said, like rice in that middle area, but I would lean more towards he had at least some medical knowledge. But theory surrounding homes being one in the same with Jack, say that maybe Jack's crimes were actually the beginning of Holmes's murderous career, and he evolved into the homes that we know now. I don't understand this on any level, and I've read a lot of these theories about this particular

like issue here that like he must have started as Jack the Ripper and then evolved into homes. that like he must have started as Jack the Ripper and then evolved into homes. I don't get that. Like Jack was very methodical from the jump. Was he reckless sometimes? Yeah. Absolutely. But he always seemed to have a plan. Well, that's what I was going to say even in his recklessness. It was still slightly organized. Yeah. Like it was reckless the way he went about it, but there was a plan in place. And it's like he had, he like escalated as he went. So to think this would have been Holmes' beginnings, make absolutely no sense to me.

It makes sense to go the other way around. That's right, because Jack's murders were fucking horrific. Like they, you don't start there and then end on poisoning people with gas. No, you would think that you would work your way up to. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense to me. And then people talk about the traveling. Like it was pretty, you know, people could travel

by boat pretty easily back then if you had the money to do it. You find the ship manifest. I cannot find the ship manifest, which is the exist. There are ship manifests allegedly. They are cited a lot, but I can't find them. That's a man named Holmes traveled from the US to London during the time period that Jack was active.

This was also during the time period in 1988, early 1989, where you can't find evidence of Holmes in Chicago or in the United States. So that is an interesting thing. Little hairy. Is weird that you can't find a lot of evidence or a lot of stuff going on about him during that time in the United States. I will give that credence. But at the same time, he was always running around everywhere.

So he could have even been in Canada. That's the thing that he could have been using one of his like hundred, like his 40 aliases, you know, exactly. But they just actually didn't pick up on. Holmes was also a very common name at the time. That's probably why Holmes chose it. I think it still is. So he could blend in with others, be confused with others,

and that would allow him to get by with all his schemes. But the fact that there was a homes on a ship to London, while very compelling when you put it next to other things, or if you want, you know, you're looking for confirmation bias and you want to confirm your theory, I understand that's compelling. I'm not throwing it away by any means, but I just don't think it proves anything really.

Yeah. I think it proves that there was a homes on that ship, but there was a lot of homes as well. It could be any homes. Again, the time period in-treating. Very intriguing, the fact that we can't find a lot about homes during that this small period of time in-treating. But whatever.

And now we're gonna get to the thing that pisses me off the most. Right, well. One of the things that a lot of people use, and Jeff Mudge it uses. And again, I'm not like Jeff Mudge it might be 100% right. I am not saying he's wrong. I'm just saying, I don't personally agree with this, especially this one piece of the puzzle. They people like to look at the deer boss letter, the Jack the Ripper deer boss letter. People like to look at the deer boss letter, the Jack the Ripper deer boss letter. And handwriting analysis said that this letter

was likely written by an American because boss was not a heavily used term, slang term in England at the time. It was used, but it was used more on America. I was gonna say maybe they just want to broaden thought they were fancy when they got back to London. They were like boss. And they think it was written by the same person who wrote things that belonged to homes.

They compared some of the handwriting analysis. Again, I saw the comparisons. I'm not wowed by the comparison. No, and you showed them to me. I wasn't either. But they claimed that the handwriting analysis said that it was like a 97% match or something wild. If it is, that's fascinating,

but my eyes don't work, right? It's also cursive. And a lot of people at that time period learned how to write cursive in a very similar manner. Yeah, that's the thing. Now, I'm gonna read you, because I think we need to take a little trip back to the deer boss letter for a second,

because I have a lot of reasons why this doesn't make sense that it was H.A. Jones. So the deer boss letter was this, I'll read it to you. Deer boss, I keep on hearing the police have caught me, but they won't fix me just yet. I've laughed when they look so clever and talk about being on the right track. That joke about leather apron gives me real fits. I'm down on whores and shant quit ripping them till I do get buckled. Grand work the last job was, I gave the lady no time to squeal.

How can they catch me now? I love my work and want to start again. You'll soon hear of me with my funny little games. I saved some of the proper red stuff in a ginger beer bottle over the last job to write with, but it went thick like glue and I can't use it. Red ink is fit enough, I hope. Ha ha. The next job I do, I shall clip the lady's ears off and send to the police officers. Just for Jolly, wouldn't you? Keep this letter till I do a bit more work than give it out straight.

My knife is nice and sharp. I want to get to work right away if I get a chance. Good luck, yours truly. Jack the Ripper. Don't mind me giving the trade name. Wasn't good enough to post this before I got all the red ink off my hands, Kerset. No luck yet, they say I'm a doctor now. Ha ha. So many things. So many things. Yeah.

I went over in the Jack the Ripper episodes about how this is not Jack the Ripper. I was saying it, I was like, wait a second, because I thought that we had determined it was not. Yeah, it's not. This is not Jack the Ripper. I was saying it. I was like, wait a second, because I thought that we had determined it was not. Yeah, it's not. This is not Jack the Ripper. This is the like, you know, going from like my last job, my funny little games, the tones don't match. And then the whole blood thing. The whole blood thing I'm going to get to that, don't worry.

But it's, it's, and him giving himself the nickname. It's just like, no, no, no, no. So the deer boss letter when you first hear it It could feel real on first glance and I get that I thought it was real on first glance because especially because of the ear thing the ear thing It was so this letter was turned into police on September 29th Which was hours before the double event and the murder of cathranedos who had their ear clipped off. But the central news agency claims they received the letter

on September 27th and waited until the day of the murders to turn it into police. So there's conflicting ideas about when this letter actually came in. If it came in on the day that it happened, the days before, the dates are a little muddy there. And I don't think we can trust them. And another thing, George Sims was a journalist who wrote a weekly column and was heavily into the investigation of the White Chapel murders. And he said, the dear boss letter in postcard were sent to a news agency, and not a paper,

like not a newspaper, and not the cops. A news agency sells stories to papers and news outlets. It's a hub, like that's where you spread the story of the news to other sources. Wouldn't someone just send the letter directly to the paper or the actual investigators? Why would they choose a news agency who would know to even do that? I can tell you who.

Someone who wrote a news agency. He wrote, George Sim's wrote, the fact that the self postcard proclaimed a sassin sent this imitation blood-basmeared communication to the central news opens up a wide field for theory. How many among you, my dear readers, would have hit upon the idea of the central news as a receptacle for your confidence? You might have sent your joke to the telegraph, the times, any morning or any evening paper, but I will lay long odds that it would never have occurred to communicate with a press agency.

Curious, is it not that this maniac makes his communication to an agency which serves the entire press? It is an idea which might occur to a press man, perhaps, and even then, it would probably only occur to someone connected with the editorial department of a newspaper. Someone who knew what the central news was, and the place it filled in its business of news supply. This proceeding on Jack's part betrays an inner knowledge of the newspaper world, which is certainly

surprising. Everything therefore points to the fact that the jokest is professionally connected with the press. And if he is telling the truth and not fooling us, then we brought our brought face to face with the fact that the White Chapel murders have been committed by a practical journalist, perhaps even a real live editor, which is absurd. And at that, I think I will leave it. So he's like, not by it. It's a very, very valid point that is this 100% betrayed somebody with an inner idea of how the press and news work.

And honestly, in White Chappell, especially at the time, the layperson did not know that. That was not something that people were just going to know on the streets. That postcard was also talking like it was sent before the double event, like I said, but it was actually postmarked over 24 hours after it was done. Yeah. So the ear thing, it was postmarked after that. And they could have already known. So it seems like whoever sent it tried to make it look like it was before, but that postmark betrays it. And again, the dates are all confusing.

So that postmark is the only real thing you can go off of. And if you look at it, it's after the double event. Fake news. Now, also the coagulated blood in the ginger bubble. That's the whole thing that goes up my butt. This is a medically minded person. H.H. H. Holmes is a medically minded person. H.H. Holmes is a medically minded person. The real killer would not be shocked

that blood coagulated in a ginger bottle. And it would, obviously that would be coagulated by the time you sat down to write that stupid fucking letter. If you were keeping it from there, it would be jelly in minutes. And the real killer would know that. And Holmes would also know that.

Regardless of his knowledge of medicine, he did graduate from medical school. He's done a shit ton of stuff. He knows what blood does. He's seen it. It's stupid. So this letter, right? In conclusion, this is fucking stupid. I just broke for a second.

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ah, I had to switch to red ink. That's just over the top and dumb. Yeah. Like it's just not real. One, if we're claiming this is really Jack the Ripper, it doesn't even line up. Even if we don't know who that is, we know he knows he's gonna know what blood does.

He's seen bloods in the most- Coagulate in front of him, probably. So it's really not shocking. And then if you're claiming this guy is HH Holmes who even wrote this letter, that doesn't make sense. And then if you're saying that HH Holmes is Jack the Ripper and that this letter is real,

I'm sorry, I cannot get behind that. It's a girl by moment. It's a girl by moment for me. And then the last thing that makes me crazy is if H. H. Holmes was in fact, the committer of the White Chapel murders, he was Jack the mother fucking ripper. When that guy got ex, when he was, he had an execution date. He knew he was gone. I am, I am headed off. I'm shuffling off this mortal coil.

I know this. He started being wild. It's like that man started telling tall tales and started being like, I have killed 4,000 people. Like he was just, that's crazy. All he wanted was to see in the papers what a fucking bean he was and how he was a monster and he'll go down in history and blah, blah was just, that's crazy. All he wanted was to see in the papers what a fucking fiend he was and how he was a monster and he'll go down in history

and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He fucking loved it because he knew he was gonna die anyway. So he wanted his legacy to be that he was a fucking fiend. And then he would lie about it and pull it back. If he was Jack the Ripper, you think he would have just neglected to put that in there?

Probably not. Like you think he would have just like, put that in there? Probably not. Like, you think he would have just like, like, come on. I don't see it. Like, he would have omitted the fucking white chapel murders out of his legacy. Me thinks not.

I don't think so. I think he would have been like, guys, you think this was wild? You should extra-dite me over to London because I did some shit there. And then he would just be like, let's go. And you would have been able to live longer. Yeah, and you would have been able to talk about it more.

Mm-hmm. You would have fucking loved to talk about. You think you would have done all that, and then not talked about it? No. No. No. It's just not realistic. Girl. Bye. It's just not realistic. I don't see it.

So, I wish you had a gavu. If you believe, do you have something that can sound like a gaville, right? Did that hurt though? No, it didn't. But so if you believe that they are one in the same ice support your freedom of thought, Elena says, you're wrong.

But you're wrong. And I'm right. That's the way that. Just capricorn things. So there's that. And you're wrong. You're right. That's the way that just Capricorn thing. So there's that and wrong. You're right And that's it. I don't think People are gonna think I'm such an asshole Breaking news Late as an asshole

Let's get back to Herman Webster budget and get into it. Yeah. So I just had to get through that. We had to talk about it. It was the elephant, the rum, all that good stuff. He's not Jack the Ripper. So let's talk about him as he is. So this man has now, again, killed a bunch of people.

He's come back from Canada. We got the detectives on his trail. And staying in Canada definitely would have been a better idea. Since neither the Pinkerton agents or Detective Gary from Fidelity Mutual, I will never not be funny because every time I hear Ronnie and Ben go, Blah Blah Blah, I'll tell you about Gary from below deck. See, and I just love Detective Gary from Fidelity Mutual. It is the equivalent to Jake from State Farm.

It really is. What are you wearing Gary from Fidelity Mutual? Well, the equivalent to Jake from State Farm. It really is. What are you wearing Gary from Fidelity Mutual? Well, the thing is the Pinkerton agents and Detective Gary, neither one of them had authority in Canada. Oh, that's cool. He might not have even been extra-nited. Like, I'm sure Canada, like we know Canada and they would have been in Canada. Like, I can't help you out.

Like, Canada's kind. But like, you don't know, that would have been pretty fucking fuzzy. Yeah. But the agents did make their way up there because they knew Canada was kind and that they could get them on their side. They said, I'm coming up.

But this time, the agents arrived in Toronto. And Holmes and Georgiana had already left and were on their way to meet Carrie Pitezel in Ogden's Verg New York, where they had told her for the hundredth time she would be meeting her husband. I hate that. And what I'm assuming is the end of her life, that's all she heard.

It's she was, I think, a man of times that she was shuffled somewhere and then told her husband would be there and then they were like, yeah, just kidding. Kills me. I know. So sad. But when Holmes and Georgiana arrived in New York, he immediately let Carrie know, uh-oh,

this is too small of a town for us to arrange a meeting. And he said, everyone is attending to everyone's business here. So he said, you can go to Burlington, Vermont. That's where he'll be. Oh, I fucking love Burlington, Vermont. Yeah. And he said, he said, there you can see Ben. It's a nice place. It is, but you're not gonna see Ben.

He has shuffled her everywhere. She's come from Canada, down to New York again. And he's like, oh, Vermont. And that also shows like how in love with her husband, she was that she was willing to go all these places. Yes, because you would think at some point, she'd be like, what the fuck would she get up? But the love for her husband clearly kept her going.

And she thinks that her kids might be with him too. So she's just like all hope. Right. Now, Holmes at this point had written a letter to his brother in New Hampshire saying that he had had amnesia for eight years, the eight years since they had seen him. I forgot about that. Like, oops, I just forgot everything.

And I would love to come back home and, you know, just see all the things that I happen to see. It's like the episode of Full House, where Michelle falls off the horse. That was a very intense episode, true. But somewhere between Canada and where he ends up in Boston later, we'll see. What?

He had heard, yep. He had heard that he was being tailed. I just pulled on my ear to be like, he had heard. It felt like softball when it was like a softball. I don't know why I did that. I was like, he heard with his ears. I was like, is that what happened? He doesn't have like pretty gnarly ears.

But he heard with those big ears that he was being tailed for murder in Chicago. Ooh, that's people who'd figured shit out. But he didn't know by who? He didn't know the Pinkerton's were involved, and he didn't know Detective Gary was involved, and he didn't know when. He just heard this rumor. So in the week that followed, Holmes continued this whole bullshit.

He told Carrie Benjamin's husband, or wife, and Dezi, their 16-year-old daughter, because now there's Dezi, the 16 year old daughter, and Wharton is like a baby. Those are the only two left. Right, the other three. I've been murdered by Holes. So, he tells Carrie and Desi their 16 year old daughter

that Benjamin was alive and well, and is now, oh no, he's up in Montreal again. Told them he's back in Canada. I don't even know what I would fucking do at that point. Yeah, I would, I think I would start exactly losing it. And they said that he, so he claimed that he went back up there because he didn't feel it was safe to be in the US. He thought he was going to get caught.

So he was waiting to reunite with his family. And then he told them you won't even know him. He has a new set of teeth and is all fixed up nice so you won't know him at all. He's very anxious to see you. He's such an evil thought. So fucked. Like, no one really knows why he was continuing the scheme at this point because he was enjoying it. He'd already claimed the money for the insurance payout and he killed the three Pights out children. So there was really no reason to continue this. He could have just abandoned her and left. Oh, there then she she did know a lot.

That's true, but he would have been like, who's going to believe you? Like what? They've already paid out the insurance thing. It's, I truly believe he was just having a lot of fun emotionally torturing this family. That's so fucked. No, I don't believe you. Yeah, no, November 5th, I believe you. On November 5th, Holmes left Kerry Pytzel in Burlington, and he took a thousand dollars

from Georgiana, his wife, and he traveled to Gilman to New Hampshire, where he was from, where Claire is, where his son Robert is. Now remember, he had sent the letter to his brother. And so when he did this, he told Georgiana that he needed the thousand dollars because he was traveling to Kingston for a business meeting with an associate from Chicago. So he's just lying all over the place. Like a rug.

And he said it was gonna be silly boring stuff. You know, it would be better if Georgiana stayed behind. Yeah, of course. You should definitely stay behind. Just hang tight. So off he goes, and apparently everyone must have bought the Amnesia story right off the bat. According to the Boston Globe,

Clara showered her long lost husband and kisses thrilled to have discovered him to be alive. Oh my God. Now, when I read that, I said, yeah. Huh? Like, do we remember how she would walk around that place with black eyes? Like, are we really that psyched to see this bucket?

Right. Now, according to Adam Celser, those newspaper accounts were probably very embellished. Hey, guess fuck. Meaning Clara and Holmes had not seen each other in like forever. And the last time they had seen each other, he was violent and he was shitty and neglectful of their children, child and her.

And then there was like some other communication where he wrote to her and wanted full custody. Exactly. They had treated her like shit. Mm-hmm. So I doubt she was immediately just like, oh my God, yes. She's really like, fuck. So it's much more likely that he gave them a very selective rundown of what he'd been doing

in the years that he had been away. He definitely explained the big of me as Imniasha related having, you know, I forgot that I was married. Oh my God, so he told them he was married again. Yeah, he was like, oops, I got married again. So they were like, excuse me. And according to Holmes, it was only in the last two or so months

that something had happened to cause his memory to come back. So that's why he wanted to return to his life as Herman Webstermudgeit. Totally. Now, it's funny because he speaks about this time very strangely for him when he wrote about it. Okay. It's like a motion filled strangely. About his return to New Hampshire, he said, here, many changes had taken place.

Even my initials that have been deeply cut into one of the large elm trees that grow so slowly had become obliterated. This touched me deeply, seeming so much in keeping with what had been in reality, had what had in reality occurred to the name itself. So he's saying like, my name had been obliterated in reality and it was obliterated on that tree. And like, that's a very like deep. That is. Like, this motherfucker is getting nostalgic.

Yeah, it's like an introspective way of speaking about it, which is not very of him, I would say, or at least he usually doesn't falsely, and that seemed a little more real. That's a false in the way I was. And like, I'm like, but then you just continue to. It's very weird. No one can stop at that point, I think. Yeah. No one gets this though. I don't get it. He probably doesn't get it that much. Maybe I think there is like something about going home, you know, like I think that made him introspective. It must have, and what's weird though too, is no one knows why he really went back to Nohampshire.

Do you think he loved his parents? I don't know. Or like it's not love, but like whatever he felt. I don't know. I really don't know. I couldn't put my finger on anything because nothing makes sense for him. The only thing I can think of is that,

like you were saying he knows the detectives are hot on a makes sense for him. The only thing I can think of is that, like you were saying, he knows the detectives are hot on his trail for murder. Maybe he did just wanna go home and say, like have a couple more memories with his parents and Clara. See, that's, it's that. But it's fucking weird. Or like, he knew they were on his tail. And so he went back there and he was fully ready

to become Herman Webster Muget again. Right. And he was like, maybe if I leave homes behind, I leave all these other aliases behind. I leave Howard behind all this. I'm Herman Webster Muget. I am my birth name. Like, you know, maybe that, maybe this will keep me safe.

Like they won't be able to track me. Right. And if I convince everyone that I had Amnesia, that nothing's happened in the eight years and we just start a new, right? That maybe like I'll be able to track me. Right. And if I convinced everyone that I had amnesia, that nothing's happened in the eight years, and we just start a new, right? That maybe like I'll be able to avoid all this. Because maybe he was even planning on like the amnesia story selling it to himself. Yeah. Over time. Truly. You know. Yeah. But then so we said, I said that and we said that and we're like, that makes a little sense. We'd be say, but he didn't stay long. He left after only two days.

Maybe you just couldn't take it on a train for Boston. No, get out of here. Exactly. But I'm like, what were you doing? What was the plan that initially and you were like, this isn't going to work? Maybe. Maybe you saw that fucking tree and you were like, oh shit. Yeah, change things.

Maybe it gave him, like maybe he was very introspective in that moment. He's like, the name has been obliterated on the tree. I can never come back to herman webster budget. So I just like to like go forth. I really am gone. I really am. H H homes.

The only thing I could also think of, so another thing. I'm like, yes. Like his child, his first born was a son, and that was like fucking huge. Oh yeah, it was like an air and all that. So maybe he was like, I must see my son one more time. Yeah, I don't know.

Because then remember, he also wanted the custody, and we were like, why did he want custody of his son? Like, that doesn't make any sense. It's very strange. I don't know. It's very strange. Now, before leaving New Hampshire after those two days, Holmes sent a telegram to Georgiana in New York,

you know, his wife. Yeah, that's them. Telling her to meet him in Boston. So before he even left, he was already like, I'm out of here. They met at a train station on November 13th, and from there, they checked into the Adams house as Mr. and Mrs. H.M. Howell.

So he's right back to his own bullshit. The next day, he checked them into a boarding house in Boston, because he was planning to stay longer. Meanwhile, on Beknownstoo Homes, Detective Gary and the Pinkerton stole him from New Hampshire to Boston. Once there, they went straight to the Boston PD and spoke to them about setting out to arrest homes for the Philadelphia insurance fraud.

Unfortunately, the Boston police chief at the time felt that the warrant from Philadelphia was not like super strong. And he said, I could probably get him, but I'm not gonna be able to hold them with this. Okay, so he was still in a head. He was so Gary was like, I got you. And he scrambled and got a second warrant

from Fort Worth, Texas. The one where Holmes was wanted for being a horse thief. And that's the first thing that's been fucking real. So this would strengthen the case to hold him in Boston. I guess they could have also tried to get a warrant from Chicago for the arson too, but they didn't need to. You would think that they would want to. I know.

November 17th, 1894, Holmes left the boarding house to go for a nice little morning walk. Had that turn out. Because he was so fucking egotistical that he assumed that there was no way he was being tracked in Boston with his big old mustache. Like everybody knows exactly you are, fucker. I want to do this. And also if you were on the run and you had committed all of those things, don't you think the first fucking thing you do is shave your fucking stupid mustache? You would think that, but he knew.

He knew onto that. There was nothing good. I mean, that usual isn't. But while walking, he was suddenly and very quickly surrounded by three inspectors from the Boston police and one pincerton agent. Freeze, motherfucker! And they told him he was coming down to speak to them at the station. I love it.

Now at first, Holmes was like, oh, what? What are you talking about acting shocked and very confused? I've had a kneesha. And he tried to talk his way out of it like he always does, but he quickly gave in when they were like, we're not going away, fucker. Now remember, he had heard that he was being tailed

and he had to be heard he was being tailed for murder in Chicago. So at some point, he was like, I was figuring I was gonna get caught at some point, but he assumed it was for murder. And instead, they're arresting him with a warrant for horse fever. So when he goes to the station, he's confronted

by another agent from Fidelity Mutual named Forest Perry. See, that's better. Forest Perry from Fidelity Mutual. It makes sense. He confronts him for faking the death of Benjamin Pitezel, and he was like, oh, good. Yeah, absolutely. So he just, like, I'm technically not up for murder. Okay.

So he just confessed. He was like, okay. So he said, quote, went to Philadelphia with Pitezel, rented the house on Calo Hill Street and fitted it up for both a bachelor's headquarters and a business office, then stated that he went on to New York where he met an old medical friend of his. Through him, he obtained a body which would answer in every description that of BF Pytzel.

The preparation of the body by burning one side with benzene or other ignitable fluid followed, and the old clay pipe was placed dangerously near it so as to suggest a terrific explosion. So he admitted everything, except for murdering Benjamin Pytzel. He said, oh no, we put a person there in his place, but that person was already dead.

We're just frothing insurance, that's all, like no murders here. We just knew of a dead body locally. Yeah, and he also said he was part of a band of conspirators that included Benjamin himself and Carrie Pytzel, and which, I mean, he kind he was part of a band of conspirators that included Benjamin himself and Carrie Pytzel, and which, I mean, he kind of was. Sort of, yeah.

And his first confession to Deputy Superintendent Hanskum of the Boston Police and John Cornish of the Pinkerton Detective Agency, he claimed that Benjamin Pytzel was still very much alive. He said, quote, while I last saw him in Detroit in the neighborhood of three weeks ago, and he said he accompanied the children for a short time and then was to hand them over to their father in Cincinnati.

That was the plan. But when they got there, he said, Pite Sel had started drinking heavily again. And he just wasn't comfortable leaving the children with him. Wow. This man. Wow. This man. When he lost those children to death?

This man is claiming their father, who he murdered, was such an alcoholic that he didn't feel comfortable leaving those children with him. Wow. And he gasped those girls in a trunk. Wow.

Yeah. And poison. Actually, he didn't even know what he lied about. Yeah. He poisoned them. So, he said he had some discussions with Benjamin. And then he said, he and Benjamin, quote, compromised to there. So he took one of them and I took the other two to Chicago because I had business there. You can have one. I think you can handle that in your drunken

swine. Just the boy, but I'll take the other. And he said, thinking that it would not call anyone's attention so quick, if he traveled with the boy alone as if there were three. What? Exactly. Thank you for saying the exact like one. Exactly. Holmes probably expected his confession would like pretty much answer all the lingering questions

they had. I mean, he did the thing that really stupid murders do where he prepares an answer for every single question that could come up, but it's so hyper-prepared and rehearsed that you're like, that's not true. You can't possibly have all these answers. But he thought it was gonna make up, people are gonna now understand

his international and interstate travels, like all that. But I think he finally overestimated his abilities to fuck around and not find out. Because within a day of his confession, they'd moved a fresh body and a trunk from New York to Philadelphia. And the coroner pointed out that the body and the apartment had been laid out flat, which would have been, which wouldn't have been possible if the man had been dead for some time.

So they did a little experiment. Yeah, they did. But they said, okay. So you brought that body from here to here. In a trunk, you said that body that was supposed to be Benjamin Pite's cells like double. Okay. How'd you lay it flat? How'd you do that? Like, that doesn't make any sense. And that's just such a classic like, well, I thought I was smarter. And they also said, they said, first of all, wouldn't have laid flat if it was in like any position.. They said, definitely not if it was in a trunk for a long period of time.

They said it would have shown marks of where it had been doubled up. No such marks were on the body. Holmes confession didn't hold up under any of this. Of course, he couldn't explain any of this. Of course not. Investigators immediately said that the body found was really that of Pytzel and not of someone else. So the claim of such, like this was truly a like gruesome insurance fraud scheme, even if you take away the murder. Yeah. Like it's just gruesome. No matter what.

So headlines were going crazy and within days it was blowing up all over the place. After just two days of being arrested in Boston, Pinkerton agents, arrested Carrie Pytzel and Burlington, Vermont. She was probably like, what? Yeah. And then she was just there waiting for Benjamin. Of course. Yeah. She was brought to Boston and she was interrogated by Hans Kim and Cornish, the, the Boston copy and the Pinkerton detective. And she wasn't super forthcoming, unfortunately. Well, she was probably scared. She sure was.

Like you said, she was involved in a scheme. And she was trying to protect her husband, who she still believed was alive. So she lied and denied any knowledge of a fraud scheme, which only made her look more complicit than she even was in reality. Based on all this and Holmes' confession, detectives confirmed that they believed, quote, the missing man Benjamin Pitecell is dead and that he met his death at the hands of Holmes. So although she may have had some knowledge of the scheme to defraud the insurance company,

detectives were pretty sure, pretty quick, that Carrie Pytzel didn't play a part in the actual crime. Okay. They said she probably only knew of the swindle after her husband was supposed to be dead. Yeah. And police were pretty confident that she definitely wasn't directly involved in it. She hadn't had her hands in it.

But they said, there is someone else who seems to have their hands in this. Jeb to how? The lawyer. A lawyer. I forgot about Jeb to. this. Jeopardy how? The lawyer. A lawyer. A lawyer. A lawyer. A lawyer.

A lawyer. A lawyer. A lawyer. A lawyer. A lawyer. A lawyer. A lawyer. A lawyer.

No, it's Jeopardy how. Gotcha. He was arrested at his home in St. Louis, St. Louis on November 20th, and the warrant charged him with being a fugitive from justice. Whoof. He released a statement saying, I do not believe that a fraud has been committed. I believe the body identified by Pite's else 15-year-old daughter was that of her father.

The marks of identification were perfect. As to how Pite's else met his death, I cannot say. But if a fraud has been committed, I'm anxious to have it investigated. Liar, liar, pants on fire. And immediately Arson was another chargear, liar, pants on fire. And his immediately arson was another charge because his pants lit right on fire. Yep.

On November 19th, a Philadelphia Grand Jury indicted Holmes and Howe for conspiracy to cheat and defraud the Fidelity Mutual Company. You don't wanna be doing that. The indictment also added a third conspirator onto it. Charles A. Pytzel. Who's that? Again, who that is is no one.

Investigators made an oopsie. Who that is is no one. And Charles A. Pytzel is just one of Benjamin's aliases. So they didn't realize that yet and they literally indicted a dead man's aliases for his own murder. Wolf.com. I just love. So, that is.

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The following day, they were extra-dited to Philadelphia to stand trial. So, Holmes killed Benjamin Pytzel. So that man, correct. He couldn't have left the three missing children with their father. So now the question became, where the kids are. Where the fuck are Alice, Nellie, and Howard Pitezel?

Yeah. So the missing Pitezel children are definitely like top priority right now. But now they're also looking into like the nationwide crime spree, like an international crime spree that was shocking them at this point. In Chicago, a bunch of people came forward and identified homes as a man. They'd once known by many other names before he had run out on them before paying for

anything that he had put on credit. And in Texas, people suddenly suddenly started connecting their loved ones, many and nanny Williams with this man, and we're stressing the fuck out. They were like something terrible has happened here. And in the times since she got missing, several private detectives were sent from Texas to Chicago in search of nanny Williams, because her trunk had sat on claimed at the Wells Fargo Office for months, and then was returned to her aunt.

So in Texas, which shocked them all and none of them could get a hold of her. The Chicago Tribune reported, it is certain any Williams did come to Chicago, but whether she was murdered is a point that can only be cleared up when her sister Mini is brought to light. By the time Soms reached Philadelphia on the 21st of November, he started talking about Mini 2 because they were bringing her up. Right. According to the Philadelphia police detective Thomas Crawford, one of the somebody who was transporting homes from Boston to Philadelphia, he said he talked a lot.

I was just going to say, imagine being that guy. Oh my God. And you just have to hear him. He's told the bizarre story about Nanny Williams, like how she had died. He told like several different stories about that. And under hypnosis, Crawford, this police detective, relayed the story that he had heard from homes. Well, that's crazy. Yeah. He said he went to Chicago, Chicago with his first wife, and there fell in with a young typewriter named Mini Williams for whom he secured furnished apartments. The girl was often visited by her elder sister. The younger however was jealous of Holmes and one day knocked her on the head and killed her. When Holmes returned and found the dead body in the rooms, he took it and put it in a trunk together with a lot of stones and sank it in the lake.

The younger sister having property in Texas, he and Pytel took the property off her hands and furnished her with money to go to Europe where she is now. No. So again, claiming that many was jealous of Nanny and homes, killed Nanny in a jealous rage by beating her over the head with a stool, leaving her in the bed, then help tones put her in the trunk, she sink her to the bottom of the lake. And then she signed over the deed to the Texas properties to homes in Pite Cell, and then they gave her a little money

and off she went to Europe to live out the rest of her days. That's what he's claiming. The story spun about Millie, many killing her sister at a jealous rage, just like was not anything anybody was gonna to believe it wasn't hidden with anyone. Which is good because that's also so fucked up that he killed the both of them and was like, they got her on her. They got her on her.

They just jealous of the older ones. So she beat her with a stool. And this was also further cemented in by the hordes of people who after he was arrested wanted to tell reporters about their interactions with homes. Many of them had met homes and many Williams in Chicago, but the problem was that they both, they were known as different names. In some cases, the women they thought was many Williams

was actually Georgiana Yokes. Oh, shit. But he was like introducing her saying this is many. And she was like, yeah, it's me and me. He also had another known associate named Kate Durkey, who he didn't kill. And it was also her sometimes that he would say it was mini. What the fuck?

And these women were just like, yep, it's me and me. That's a thing, like what? Now eventually enough stories had come forward to allow investigators to conclude that mini was also missing and had in fact not been seen by anyone since she was last spotted with her sister in Chicago in mid-December, 1893. Now, in the year that followed after this, Holmes's story about Minnie and Nanny Williams

changed a billion times. He never told the same story twice. In some, they're both alive, they're both dead, Minnie had gone into hiding after killing her sister, but then sometimes you would say, I don't think told that story for fun because this Crawford guy was super gullible, and I wanted to see if he'd believe it. But regardless of what he would say, it was always that Minnie killed her sister,

then fled to Chicago and he hadn't seen her since. That was what he would like go back to always. So stupid. So Holmes spent the winter of 1895 in jail. And journalists were talking to anyone who had even come in slight contact with him in his travels. Meanwhile, Detective Frank Geier, from the Philadelphia police,

had set out from Philadelphia to track his movements before his arrest so that they could figure out maybe where they're missing Pite's Elchone or more along his path. By then, investigators had learned a ton more about homes and they learned that he had what like dozens and dozens of aliases at the time that he had moved from one hotel to the other to a boarding house to renting a house like Like they were learning all this shit as it's happening. I'm just picturing them connecting the red lines and just having the wall become a red line.

Yes, literally. And now with all of this, they're trying to find these kids. And it's becoming so complicated that it must have been so frustrating. And just like imagine how desperate they felt. Yes, and Guyer began retracing homes as steps. and he's checking him with every hotel along the way, every boarding house, every alias he's falling up on, just trying to find these kids.

What's been exhausting? Everyone, now Holmes was no help. And his stories were becoming more and more inconsistent. They were changing. He would just lie. He would pull it back. But then in his possession, they found a small tin, and that small tin had a bunch of letters that the children had written their mother, Carrie Pytzel. Oh, no. And she had written them too. And he had never sent them,

and he had never given them her letters. And using the dates and locations reference in the letters, Geier was able to trace a pretty accurate route of homes his travels with the kids from Indianapolis to Canada. Holy shit. So they used those letters from the kids. And in a town outside Cincinnati, they talked to a bunch of like shopkeepers and they showed them a photograph of the man identified as Holmes and they were like, yep, we know that guy and then they said he was traveling

in the company of a young boy who was later identified as Howard Pytzel. God, I'm. Well, and also a hotel clerk in Cincinnati identified Holmes as the man who checked in with two girls. But he didn't remember seeing a boy, but remember he killed Howard first. In each new location, Gyer would hear another story.

Holmes would arrive with children, rent at a house or apartment for a really short period of time, and then he would leave and go to another one. This story finally changed in July 1895 because Gyer traveled all the way up to Toronto, following the trail. Now, he've worked with the Toronto police force,

and they helped him trace Holmes' steps all along the city. Along the way, he got more and more positive identifications for my witnesses. People would see Holmes, Georgiana, and Nellie and Alice from hotel managers at the Walker House, where they said the girls were staying, the Palmer House, where he stayed with Georgiana. And through this investigation,

he finally learned that Homes had expressed interest in buying or renting a house in several of the locations he was in in Toronto. So he went around to every real estate agent that he found in the air. Yeah. And like just asked if they recollected ever renting a house about that time to a man who maybe only stayed there a few days and who represented that he wanted this house for his widowed sister because that's the story he was hearing. But the fact that he would only need it for a few

days would be so memorable. Exactly. So after doing this only for a couple of days, he finally found an agent who rented a house on the outskirts of Toronto to a man who only stayed there for a little bit and matched the description. So Gyer and the Toronto detectives arrived at this house and now an older couple was living there with their adult son. Oh God. So the detectives were like, hey, we have reason to believe that two young girls were murdered in this house and their bodies might be buried somewhere on the property. Can we like look? Do you mean if we look?

Like, can you imagine if you're not fucking knock on your door? Well, apparently the owners weren't like crazy shocked. They go, that accounts for that pile of loose dirt under the main building. You didn't want to call anybody but what? Jesus Christ. So the couple's older son helped them and they got under the house and began digging.

But the space was really small and it was really difficult to move around in. So it was slow this process. And eventually they had to stop because investigators determined it was not a house rented by H.H.O.M.S. What? So there was just some random loose dirt in their house.

There was nothing in there. Fuck you. No. That was not cool. Fuck you. Now while Gaya was retracing Homes's, Whoa! Throw in your pussy across the road.

She got a sexy sliding across the dead. You were playing like air hockey with it all the time. I went to go like, move it because I thought it was falling off. You thought I almost made it fall off? You launched it. I launched it into the sun. Now, while Gyer was retracing all the movements in Canada,

Holmes was on trial in Philadelphia for conspiring to defraud the Fidelity Mutual Life Association of $10,000 by producing a dead body and representing it to be the corpse of Benjamin F. Pytzo. That's what he's trying to type all that. Holmes pled guilty to the fraud charges, but when asked, he said he would refuse to say to the District Attorney or Philadelphia investigators

where those children were. He was not going to tell them. Of course. So they took them to county prison. Now several days went by, Gaya is still up in Canada, talking to every real estate agent ever, and finally comes across another one,

several days later. And it was for a house on Vincent Street, rented by a name, matcha, and you might remember that street. A-remember of Vincent Street. And the man who, matcha, and you might remember that street. Ah, remember Vincent Street. And the man who rented it matched Holmes' description. So on the morning of July 15th, Geyer and his associates arrive at the house, they speak to the next door neighbor, and the next door neighbor says,

yeah, I saw Holmes' picture in the papers, and he was definitely the one who rented this house for his widowed sister. And the neighbor also said, yeah, I didn't get a good look at the girls, but he definitely had two girls with him. I couldn't, and he said I won't identify them as the two girls because I didn't get a good enough look. But he said, oh, also before he left town, like shortly before he asked me to borrow a shovel.

So I forgot about that. Dyer was like, okay, cool. And so he went to the owner of the house, the one who rented it to Holmes, and they positively identified Holmes as the man who'd rented it. And they said, by all means, search that house. No problem. No problem. So Gyer and the other detectives went into the basement, and it didn't take long before

they found a spot of ground in the southwest corner of the room that was definitely recently disturbed. They began digging, like pretty easily it was moving away. And Guyer said, and after going down about one foot, a horrible stench arose. So they were convinced, this is it. So Guyer began digging with his hands like ripping out dirt. And they were able to unearth a tomb. They said, the deeper we dug, the more horrible the odor became.

And when we reached the depth of three feet, we discovered what appeared to be the bone of the forearm of a human being. Thank God. With the help of the undertaker, the local undertaker, BD Humphrey. I love that. I love that. I love that. I love that.

They should be. Yeah, absolutely. No, their career path for you. I will not question that ever. No, BD Humphrey for life. Ever. Guy and the detectives were able to unearth the two bodies in the basement. They were very decomposed. And we're actually a little bit injured

from being exhumed as well, because it was not like a very good together exhumation. But I'm glad that they were able to be located so that they could actually be put to rest. And they were able to be put into two separate coffins, which is good. They weren't just dumped in one thing. That's good. Yeah, it's really sad.

So badly decomposed, that's going to be a problem, but enough that they were able to put two and two together. The children's remains were taken to the morgue for examination and Gyer sent a Telegram to the district attorney Graham letting him know that he should definitely proceed with murdered murder charges against H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H. H he was actually murdered. Oh, that's terrible. Now after the bodies of Alice and Nelly were uncovered, Holmes's guilty plea in the fraud case became kind of a problem because the girls had been killed in Canada. So Holmes would need to be extra-dited to Toronto in order to stand trial for the murders. And once he'd learned of the discovery, Holmes claimed he was traveling at the time that the girls were killed and he couldn't have possibly done it, which Georgiana verified.

I don't really like her. Yeah, I'm not a fan. Now, instead, Holmes said, the Pitezel children were killed by a man named Hatch. As I hear alter ego, he described this man as a mythical sort of person. And I'm like, I'm sure this man as a mythical sort of person. I'm like, I'm sure he was mythical because he doesn't exist. In a very disreputable character, Mr. Hatch was apparently a friend of many Williams, according to him.

Isn't everybody? And he'd reluctantly given the girls to this man during a stop and buffalo. You wouldn't leave them with their father, but you gave them to a random... A disreputable mythical man named Hatch. Yeah. And he had instructed Hatch to take them with many to Europe. Everybody's just hanging out here. To Europe and to Europe.

Totally. See, he is obsessed with Europe. I will say that. Correct. When super-intended of police, Lyndon heard the statement. He replied, that man, Holmes, is the most infernal liar I've ever been brought in contact with. His willingness to plead guilty to the charge of conspiracy

led us to think that something must be back of the case. So the discovery of the two bodies pretty much confirmed to all the news outlets and the public that HH homes was definitely a multiple murder at the time. It was not known as a serial killer. Within days of that discovery, newspapers went wild around the country. And Chicago investigators and citizens

started digging around the rubble of the castle, because remember, it had burned, not all the way down, but part of it had. But they were thinking they would find bones of victims, and they were gonna try to tack moron. Chicago was looking for evidence of many and nanny's remains at the castle. But they were thinking they would find bones of victims, and they were going to try to tack moron. Chicago was looking for evidence of many and nanny's remains at the castle. And on July 19, two detectives who were looking through the ashes that were technically used

to be the basement, they found an old stove. When they looked in the firebox of the stove, they discovered a quantity of charged human remains and a watch chain formally owned and worn by many Williams. So he had burned their bodies in the stove. That's terrible. At the time of the whole crime spree and the arrest and all that, newspapers, especially like the metropolitan papers, were not held to like very high standards.

Yeah, I could see that. And there was a lot of competition among them. They wanted to be the one with the most readers. So this would definitely lead to some leaning towards like tabloid kind of reporting. And they were a little bit more willing to exaggerate and fabricate. You know what's sad?

So many still around today be the same thing. Like how often do you find fake shit when you're researching and you're like, why does no other article say that? Yeah, it's like what? Now, Holmes knew this. And he almost was kind of like eager to play along with it. Of course.

He would give outrageous statements, contradictory statements, like things that would make him like the most bloodthirsty, ruthless killer, leaving bodies all across the country. That's another reason why I don't think he would have left out that he was Jeff the River. I think this would have been the time he would have been, by the way, those crazy murders in Whitechapel. Yeah, seems like a big part to skip. But a lot of papers did operate the way they should, on fact. But they would definitely still kind of like sensationalize the whole thing, because how can you not? When Julian Pearl Conner's disappearances were connected to Holmes finally in the summer

of 1895, the Chicago Chronicle had this to say. Have two more victims of murder been added to the long list to Holmes' credit, Mrs. L. L. Conner and her daughter are now supposed to have been killed by the swindler. Holmes is said to have coerced the woman to deceive her husband and to aid his general schemes of villainery. Mrs. Conner then lived with Holmes, but they quarreled frequently,

and she threatened to expose him. She disappeared in the fall of 1893 with her daughter and friends believe that they have been removed by Holmes where the woman could not possibly appear against him. So factual, but it's just the way they presented it's very sensational. Yeah. Because like, we don't know why he did it.

Like, we don't know that she threatened to expose him. We don't know any of that. You just said that in that, and that's like drama. And like, how would you even prove that? Exactly. I think why would you write that if you could prove it? Like, because it just sounds more like, how would you even prove that? I think why would you write that if you could prove it? Like, because it just sounds more like, well, but meanwhile, investigators in Philadelphia, Toronto,

and Chicago, and every other city that homes had been spending a ton of time in, they were connecting the dots between unsolved crimes in their cities and this guy. Yep. Slowly unraveling this whole complex crime spree that he had been on for eight years at this point. That's fucking wild. Soon there was a connection made between homes and

emolene's a grand. And they were able to attribute her disappearance to him. Investigators and reporters had also been digging into homes as personal history. And that's where they learned about his fascination with dissection and chemistry. And obviously, those personality traits added with the crimes, it's a recipe for just a wild tale. Now, Holmes was indicted in early September 1895 for the murder of Benjamin Pytzel. He entered a plea of not guilty. And when the judge asked, how will you be tried?

Holmes said, by God in my country, which meant he wanted a jury trial. In the time between the indictment and the trial, Holmes took a lot of advantage of the public. He manipulated the hell out of people. I can see that. In early October, he published his own supposed autobiography entitled Holmes' Own Story.

Cue up Ashley Simpson. Exactly. The book was an alleged chronological history of Holmes' life all the way to incarceration. It was just bizarre all the way through. Some of it's real, for sure. Do you think he was just on a lot at the end? No, I don't think he was losing it. I think he was very much together.

I think he was just a fucked up human being. I think he was very much together. I think he was just a fucked up human being. I think he was enjoying it. This is all he wanted. It was to be something. Right. Now, the trial began October 28th, and from the start, it was pretty clear that Holmes's defense attorneys were out of their league. In fact, although they had previously agreed to the trial date set by the judge, when

the day came, his counsel made, quote, one of the most desperate fights for postponement ever witnessed in a criminal trial. The ships. I can't do it. I can't move my meaning. Please. Creven. Give me a check, dammit.

And it got so outrageous, I guess, that the judge apparently threatened sanctions against the lawyers. Oh, please, shit. He said if they leave the court, they will be punished as lawyers are punished for disobedience and cancel your fucking plans or do a trial.

They weren't able to withdraw the case for that day, but they didn't technically have to participate either, and they didn't. Oh, no. They just sat quietly and let homes basically act as his own defense attorney. They literally sat in the room and were like, oh, I don't know.

I was like, you don't really know how to defend this man. So if the real slim shady would please stand up. I just, you know what, the back guy said sanctions. That's the only reason I'm here. So I'm just going to sit here. Now, in his opening statement, District Attorney George Graham laid out his case and he told the jury, quote, he would prove that homes had killed each of the four pites cells who were not alive to be called as witnesses and that he had tried to kill the rest of them too. He presented a very strong case. He used a lot of witness testimony

and anyone surviving in the family, those who had seen homes with Benjamin and the children before they all disappeared. They all came up to say something. Homes, on the other hand, just kind of like made out rages claims about the prosecutor attempting to prevent him from seeing his quote-, unquote, wife, Georgiana. Yeah.

It was all very preventive, performative. It was not helpful for him at all. Eugene Smith, the man who'd gone to the patent laboratory that day to speak about his inventions and ended up finding Pite Sel's body, he was called to testify. And on the stands, on the stand, Holmes grilled him about Benjamin Pite'sel's drinking habits and other subjects that he couldn't know anything about. Like he didn't know him. He's like, I just know I had a patent. So he's sitting there grilling him and he's like, well, he was a drinker.

You know that. And he's like, I literally don't know that. I don't know that at all. I don't know that at all. I thought his last name was Perry. So like, no, I did not know this man. I didn't actually even know his name. And he's asking that at all. I thought his last name was Perry. So like, no, I did not know this man. I didn't actually even know his name.

And he's asking all these details. And he's like, my guy, I don't know this man. All I know of him is the couple of conversations I have with him. And he was not drunk. So like, I cannot confirm that. Got nothing for you. And then, Holmes just demanded that all the witnesses be removed from the courtroom.

And the judgeless like. They did happen. Overruled. Look at this letter. It's like, uh, no. Nah. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ Hey there, fellow podcast listener.

It's Elena. And Ash. And we're taking you back to the days before streaming services. Whoa! You know when you would come home from high school and it was only a few hours until that TV show everyone was watching was about to come on. Well in 1999 that show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In our podcast with Wondery the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer, we take it back to 1999. So get out your knee-high boots and paste that poster of Angel on the wall.

It's time to enter the Buffyverse. Some of you avid morbid listeners already know what we've gotten store. Join us. Join us as we sway our way through Buffy's drama, action, and romance. Episode by episode. Slacy. Follow the rewatcher, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon Music or Wondery confession was read aloud for the jury, because remember he has like 85.

And in this one, he claimed that the body was Benjamin Pitezel, but Benjamin Pitezel had died as the result of suicide. The confession was followed by what was likely the most damning testimony of the trial. It was given by Carrie and Desi, Pitezel. Well, that must have been horrific. She positively identified Holmes as the man who'd conspired with her husband and dragged her around the nation in search of her children.

And she spent hours on the stand and it was just like heartbreaking. She identified the unscent letters found as being from her kids. The New York Harold reported, quote, her parents spoke of deep poverty. It was as if all her motions were dead. She seemed incapable of suffering or feeling anymore. When she looked at home, she seemed not to even see him. Like she was just, I mean, she had been through it at that point. And then to have all those fucking letters to read.

Oh my God. When she lost all of her children, I can't even fathom it. And all of the letters were just like, why aren't you writing to us? Yeah. And she's like, they thought I wasn't writing to them. That's like to know that they were in that kind of thing. Like, you poisoned them against me at the end.

Right. They died thinking I wasn't, I didn't care about them. That poor woman. I don't know how she went on after. Yeah. She was a very powerful witness for the prosecution. And when they put her against homes, it definitely helped out as well.

After several days of testimony and tons of crazy media reports, the things that made homes such a successful criminal, like such a successful killer and con man and fraud, his ability to lie confidently, have no remorse, and just so unbelievable amounts of chaos everywhere he went. They were kind of taking a toll on the jury, like the jury was feeling it.

I could see that. He had told so many versions of the same story, and he had made such a complicated and incoherent set of stories and lies that they were kind of just like at the end of it like they don't even know what to think. A must have been so hard to follow. Yeah.

So in the end, they were much more inclined to believe the prosecution than they were to believe his bullshit. Because they don't even know what to do with this. Like clean case from beginning to end. Yeah. And they were like, you're just bizarre. I know, but you've confused me. And he probably seemed like a madman at that point.

Oh, yeah. And on the final day of the case, Graham presented his closing arguments. And he just wrapped up the evidence and all the testimony and homes in his defense or his whole team. They just had the same weak arguments. You know, the mysterious strangers, like Hatch taking the children to Europe and Benjamin Pites, all committing suicide. All of this was supposed to put in reasonable doubt.

It wasn't necessarily painting homes as innocent. Right. It was really just putting reasonable doubt and it wasn't even good reasonable doubt. They were just like, I don't know, I still think you should eat. So judges are supposed to remain pretty impartial. But that go. But this judge pretty much let his opinion be known at the end. I feel like they all kind of do at the end. Yeah.

And he sent the jury out saying this, I will say that it is such a remarkable story that approves the truth of the old saying that truth is stranger than fiction. For it's the story which Mrs. Pitezel told upon the Stan B. True. And there seems to be no reason to doubt it. No novel that was ever written contains a story as thrilling as that which she was told here upon the stand.

Concerning the manner in which this man lured her around the country in a deceptive and fruitless hunt after her dead husband. Which is like, oh, at the end, he should have literally been like, wait, wait. which is like awful. Oh, at the end, he should have literally been like, where do I wait? Oh, and then I'm like, you are now. Oh, the dismiss, right. Get out of here. Go.

Go on, get. Go on. So the jury returned to the courtroom at 9 p.m. that evening. I know I said p.m. that evening, that's annoying. I wasn't even gonna yield to my thumb. At 9 p.m. I was just like, damn.

End of statement. They were working overtime. This is what's funny. So they returned to A verdict, guilty. Yes. And it was later learned that they spent all night in that jury room, like the the liberation room, they didn't come out until 9 p.m. But the jury actually had made their decision like right away.

But they walked into that room, they were like, we're all thinking it and they were all like, hell yeah. And then they were like, but you know what, we just needed to like keep up appearances. And we also wanted to eat dinner. So nine hours. We sat in there. I pretended it was this big, long thing, but they all knew. Damn. They were all having a pizza party. They just had a pizza party. After the trial, a lot of them said, when they were asked by reporters, what convinced them of his guilt? He said that he just seemed to know too much about how to kill a man with chloroform,

but he would not do it. That's what I said. It's like, yeah. I would say so. Now, when this was read out loud, Holmes was shocked. Well, because he's a narcissist. He had spent his whole life conning, manipulating,

lying, and getting away with it. And now he's done. Done for. On November 30th, he went back to the courtroom for the sentencing phase. And his defense attorneys attempted to argue for a new trial date against. That is that the only thing they argued for.

Yeah, they said that Holmes had to act as his own defense for much of the trial, and he was largely unprepared. And it's like, that's your fault. You like, I hate. You also were largely unprepared. And Judge Arnold overruled, and he was largely unprepared. And it's like, that's your fault. You're like, hey, you also were largely unprepared. And Judge Arnold overruled and he said, it is not within the power of persons accused to say when they will be willing to, when they will be willing to be tried or to defeat a trial by dilatory, dilatory motions and practices such as were resorted to in this case.

So he's like, fuck off. He's like, I'm not giving you time to make a better case for yourself. And so he said, you literally looked them went, no. And then he looked at Holmes and said, you will be hanged by the neck until dead. So, my, Holmes's defense lawyers obviously went about the appeal process. And they said, they will go to the highest court,

if necessary. And then they said, they will go to the highest court, if necessary. And then they said, this is literally my favorite thing. They said, I shall enter at once upon the preparation of papers for an appeal. When I shall have them ready, it is impossible to tell, but no time will be lost. I love that. Like, I will get those papers done to stop you

from being killed. I will do it at some time, but I cannot say when, don't worry though, I I will do it at some time, but I cannot say when. Don't worry though, I'm gonna do it. At some point, hang tight, no pun intended. I will get there. I don't know when. Don't hold me to it.

Like it's literally just like what? That's a counter-train a phone call. You can't say like next week. Like I just give some time. Don't over-connet it. They were really like, we are going to set about at once doing that, but I don't know what I'll finish. So I think they were air signs. They were like, oh, works.

Yes. They were like, I don't want a deadline. No. And they were like, well, your clients going to be hang though. And they were like, I hope we get there in time. But no, I will not commit to that. I kind of love it. Like, no, I will not commit to that. I kind of love it. Like, wow.

Don't ever commit to it. So the appeal did go through. It finally won on February 3rd. In George Graham and Holmes's defense team were in the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania. I'm surprised they were like, yeah, we'll entertain this. They made it. So Holmes's defense argued that a lot of the testimony

used to convicts Holmes, and this is quite a stretch. I was like, well, you guys did do your own work. They pulled a muscle. They said that it came from his wife, Georgiana Yoke, which would make it privileged testimony that shouldn't have been admissible in court. But I bet they found a couple of who pulled. This was very overruled by Judge Arnold, who said on the ground that a prior marriage nullified the union between homes and yoke. It doesn't, it does not privilege because they're not husband and wife. I also love that he was like a prior union.

I'm like, how about several prior unions? Well, it's just like, oof, like you tried. Guess that big of me came back to Bicem, my guy, and he came up to the show for us. And after hearing arguments on both sides, the court sided with the prosecution and said that Georgiana quote, did say that she had gone through a marriage ceremony with this man, but she does not say that she is his wife. She merely says that she was imposed upon.

You know what? I think she was. She was. She remains to be imposed upon. Yeah, girl. So the Supreme Court decided to uphold the conviction, of course, and the death sentence. And he had no other pills and a date of May 7th and 1896 was set for his execution. Y'all know.

In the meantime, Holmes was now going away from the whole, I didn't do it thing. And he's now just enthusiastically embracing his villain role. He's like, you know what? I've officially entered my villain era. And he sure has. And between his conviction and execution, he confessed to a ton of crimes, including at least 100 more murders.

But not the Jack the Ripper ones. He would scale it. Thank you. That's the thing. He's throwing that shit up to like 200 and something, but he's not going to include the White Chapel. No. No, it doesn't make sense.

He later would scale it back, but then he'd pump it up again, scale it back. So you don't know. Just depending on like the direction of the wind. And I guess a confession was commissioned by the Hearst Corporation in April 1896, titled, The Most Awful Story of Modern Times, Told by the Fiend in Human Shape.

I don't know if I would want to hear the most awful story told by the Fiend who wrote it. That's a really good way of describing an asshole, though. A Fiend in Human Shape. I do like that. I like that. He gave detailed accounts in this confession of the murders of Julian Pearl Conner, Emily and Sagan, Minnie and Annie Williams, the whole Pite Cell family.

And then he added 18 more murders onto that, which everybody was like, oh shit, okay, he really did that. But unfortunately, those other 18 are questionable because at least two of the people he claimed to have murdered, Kate Durkey and Robert Leecock. They were still alive. They were found to be alive and shot it and fine. Shot it. So I knew it.

So this motherfucker, he was saying the murder people are still alive. He was definitely only going to claim the Jack the Ripper Riders if it had ever been planted in his head. Hundo. I tell you right now, if somebody came to him during this shit and said, hey, did you hear about that Jack the Ripper murders? What do you think about it?

Nobody knows who did it. He would have been like, that was me. If he would have literally been like, it me, everybody, he just didn't, nobody planted that seed in his head. Yeah. But Holmes was apparently paid $7,500 for that confession. And fuck was he gonna do with the money?

He got sentenced to hang. Girl, you literally just said my next sentence. Oh shit. That was perfect. No, don't be sorry. That was like right here. Like what? Like that's why I was like thank you. You literally just said exactly what I was gonna put you doing that. I think that happened in one of the last episodes two or maybe the rewatcher. That's been happening a lot. It has because literally my next thing was gonna be why he chose to do that. I don't know. He was scheduled to die in a month, so I don't know what that money would have done for him, but maybe it was kind of just like a fuck you. Like here's the money you can spend. Yeah, like I'm okay. I guess I'll just take it. But then did Georgiana get it?

I don't think so, because she's not his real wife. Damn. Yeah, I hope um, what's the first one? Care. Clara. Clara, I hope you got it. And there's also Merta with Lucy. That's true, I hope you got it. And there's also Merta with Lucy. That's for Chicago.

I hope they split it. I hope it was like the end of the other woman and they all want to vacation together. There you go. It's the end of the vacation. Yeah, I know. So the other thing is Holmes is like very over the top about his remorse in these confessions.

Like he does show like very theatrical remorse. Which is how you know it's so weird. Like laughable in a way. So he might have been trying to salvage some kind of empathetic reaction. You know what I mean? I don't know. Okay. I don't think so though. I think he's just like doing it. Yeah, just like for the drama. But on the morning of May 7th, 1896, wait a second, is that today? Oh my god, is it? Is that today? Of course, today the 7th?

It's the 8th. Oh! Okay, and weird and weird and weird because I have, in my next case that I'm covering, May 7th plays a date in my case, and I was like, oh, weird. Like I'm writing that a couple days before. Ooh, that's weird.

And I literally wrote in my notes like, weird, I'm writing this a couple days before. And I was writing this end part yesterday. On May 7th. And I didn't even realize it. That's weird. And I literally wrote in my notes like, weird, I'm writing this a couple days before. And I was writing this end part yesterday on May 7th. And I didn't even realize that's weird. That's really weird. That's so fucking weird. Oh shit, so it was like, however many years from yesterday. Yeah, because I was writing my thing on May 6th

and the May 7th thing came up and I was like, oh shit, tomorrow. Wow, that's weird. That's weird. That's weird. Tourist season is crazy. Chili's, I think Wow, that's weird. That's weird. Tourist season is crazy. Chillies. I think it's tourist season anyway.

Well, on the morning of May 7, 1896, he was taken from his cell at the county prison and he was led to the gallows. Goodbye. He denied, denied, denied. Now having killed Benjamin Pitesel and the children and he insisted he only ever killed two women. Lies.

And I love that he's just like, guys, I just killed a couple women. Let's calm down. Let it go. Do we really think that this is necessary? I just killed some women. Remove this too. Come on.

It was just a couple of rods. It was just a couple of rods, everybody. Like, oh my God. When asked if he had anything to say before he was going to hit me. Oh, what did this idiot say? He said, gentlemen, of course. I have very few words to say.

In fact, I would make no statement at this time, except that by not speaking, I would appear to acquiesce in life and my execution. I only want to say that the extent of my wrongdoings and taking human life consisted in the deaths of two women. They having died at my hands as a result of criminal operations. I wish to also state, however, so that there will be no misunderstanding hereafter.

I am not guilty of taking the life of any of the Pytzel family, the three children or father Benjamin F. Pytzel, of whose death I am now convicted and for which I am today to be hanged. That is all. He ended that shit with that is all. I would have been like, no, wrong. He'd have even ran to a priestly to it. Yep, that's all.

That's all. And then the hood was placed over his head and the lever was pulled at 10, 12 a.m. The door opened, he dropped five feet. Oops, that was supposed to break his neck, did not do that. Ooh, karma's a bitch. Adam Celtser writes, there were contortions for a minute.

The body spun, the legs swaying as though he was trying to break the rope. The fingers opened and closed, two spectators fainted. After a few minutes, the body settles. Shit. Ultimately, 15 minutes would pass before the physician felt comfortable declaring him dead. Wow, is that. And then he wasn't cut down for another 15 minutes would pass before the physician felt comfortable declaring him dead. Wow, Zah.

And then he wasn't cut down for another 15 minutes. So he stayed in that new chair. Yes, to be sure. 30 minutes. Yep. Pretty gross. And when he was removed from the gallows, they immediately put him into a coffin. That coffin was placed in cement, which then had more cement poured over on top of it.

And he was placed in a vault at Holy Cross Cemetery just outside of Philadelphia City limits. Why the fuck would they bury him in Holy Cross Cemetery? It was his request for the cement to be poured over his coffin as well, because he was worried that it would be desecrated or things stolen after he was interred, which I say, oh, the irony, I think that's how you use that word,

because he was 100% constantly stealing from the dead and using dead bodies and desecrating graves and fucking up, and he's like, I don't want that. Like, he's literally like, I know how this works. I don't want to be an asshole. When they had to do it, I can't believe he was buried in a fucking church cemetery. Yeah, I'd be like, he's the actual devil.

Yeah. Before he was executed, Carrie Pite's else lawyer, Thomas Fahy, I think it is, he thought that when he died, that he would leave a portion of his assets to the Pite's else family, because he was like, I thought he was gonna leave Benjamin's stuff to her.

It's betting on a lot. Well, that's what I was like. You think this man that killed several people, including three of her children was like, you know what, maybe I should leave for some time. Well, there's, I'm like, Thomas, you ever play Crap's? Because I don't, I don't know if you'd be great. Thomas?

I don't think you should play Crap. You should have entered Casino. Thomas, don't. You, a betting man you are not. I'm feeling like you should. You should have had to enter Casino, Thomas. Don't. A betting man you are not. Well, I'm feeling like I'm going to be cheating today. Yeah. So once his body was placed in the vaults,

the report at the lawyer found out and told the reporters, I've been given to understand that homes died in test state, which means died without a will in place. Oh, right. Although I did believe that he would leave a will devising the one third interest in whatever a state he had to miss his pite cell. I fear now that he did not make provision for the widow of the man he yesterday denied

killing, and unless he had given instructions to his attorney as to the matter of restitution, I will have to proceed upon different lines. Which also just proves to you right there. He's claiming he didn't kill Benjamin and that he never would have hurt those kids and that he loves the Pite Cell family. Why didn't he leave the money to her? Yeah, exactly. So he frauded her? That's all like, come on. Even in death? Yeah, it's like, no, come on. So a few years after his execution, Georgiana Yoke married a man by the name of Chapman and just kind of fated away. I bet she did. Yeah, just moved by it. You know what, though, I was saying things like, I don't know about her, but he was beating Clara.

I'm sure he was beating her as well. And I should have thought of that. No, but it's all very convoluted and you don't know what's going on here, but I exactly know. It's probably a lot of factors involved in here. And that's why I say, you know what, Jordiana? Bye.

Yeah. Go live, go live the rest of the life. See you never. Just bye. Go exist. Right. Murder. Murder homes.

Oh, God, I'm ashamed. It's my last name. In the beginning, she was kind of like just backing his claims of innocence, because I'm sure she didn't want to believe it. And again, was probably scared of him. And after he died, she went back to teaching primary school in Minnesota. She eventually became the principal of more than 33 unorganized schools.

Okay, not sure what that means. Lucy, the daughter, followed in her mother's footsteps. And then together, later, the two of them became red cross supporters and volunteers during the First World War. Hell yeah, so good for them. That's awesome. After his arrest, Clara Muget. So I love it, we got like Clara Muget.

Marta Holmes. Marta Holmes. And Georgiana Yook. Yeah, and then Georgiana didn't get it. So Clara Muget actually was able to avoid actually speaking to the press or anything. Good for her. And lived out the rest of her life in Tilton. And their son Robert left New Hampshire and eventually became city manager of Orlando, Florida until he died in 1956. Wow. Yeah.

I'm not that long ago. I know. Well, it was, but not in the grand scheme. Yeah. And investigators and reporters have always tried to link him to more crimes, like unsolved murders, more frauds, cases, all that. They haven't really been

able to connect anything really like hard to him. Right, right. I feel like we can, though. I feel like we can. I feel like it's going to come. We're going to hit more. I feel like we don't know the extent of what he's done. I could see that really happen.

I really feel that way. I'm much more interested in the Jack or the Ripper case in finding that out, but I think that this is also a very interesting one. I'm much more interested in the jack-o-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r-r and it burned to the ground. Interesting. Yep, so it's gone. And I think now there's like a post office on it's... where it was. Should I put like a park there? I think it's a post office. So I think it's just like an innocuous post office sitting there.

The post office is the worst. It is, so it kind of like, you know what? The vibes are not great. Yeah. So there's that. I wonder if there's any reports of it being haunted at all. That was actually the next thing I wanted to look into and I think I might look into it a little bit to just be like yeah, just be like a fun little like look back on it to see if anybody has any things about it. Um, but that is the tale of H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H H Sheh Chomes, Herman Webster Mudge It. And now, good job. I'm going to sleep.

So, 99. Good night. See ya'l. That was crazy. Shout out to you, shout out to Dave. Yeah, that was a complex. Shout out to Merta and Clara. Shout out to them.

Oofy. Shout out to them. And poor Minnie and Nanny Williams. I know, and all of them. Poor all of them. It's just really sad. Pearl. Yeah, feel bad for Carrie. Feel bad for everybody.

But that fucker is gone now. I know, I wonder what ever happened to Carrie. Yeah, I know. I can't find anything. She probably just, she was probably get me the hell out of here. Oh God. But wow, that was terrible.

In conclusion, he is not Jack the Ripper. That's violent. Yeah. So, you guys have been wanting that one for five years, I'd say, and I've been waiting for the time. I just knew it was gonna be a real deep dive. So I wanted to give it the time it required. Yeah. He was from New Hampshire, right?

Yeah. My next case that is occurring is also in New Hampshire. Wow, that's weird. Weird, and I didn't plan for that. Yeah, that's new hamper. That's weird. Weird, and I didn't plan for that. Yeah, that's really weird. And it's also kind of fun that he was caught in Boston because I was like, bye, bitch.

I don't love that. Our city was like, that's true. That's true. I was like that he had his feet on my ground. But Anne, it was also our city who was like, that sounds great to arrest him. I'm so like, fully down with that. But you're gonna have to get me another warrant so I can keep that fucker so we can extradite his ass. So like to say, I'm just

saying Boston was like, do your job, okay? Be entail. Well, as always folks, we hope you capable of something. And we hope you keep it weird. But that's the way that you're like alien and you have to revisit the deer ball slitter for another time. And then you also have to cover this in five parts because wow she's so crazy guys. I'm probably gonna revisit it again With some other case she says probably but she means Jessie and the rippers yeah Bye-bye. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts.

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