Morbid - Episode 465: The Devil Made Me Do It

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Starting point is 00:01:31 than the national average savings rate. Apply for your Apple card now in the wallet app on iPhone and start growing your daily cash with savings today. Apple card subject to credit approval. Savings is available to Apple card owners, subject to eligibility requirements. Savings is available to Apple Card owners, subject to eligibility requirements. Savings accounts provided by Goldman Sachs Bank USA. Remember FDIC? National Average Savings Rate is from FDIC website. Terms apply. Hey, Weirdo, Zamasch. And I'm Alaina. And this is morbid. This is morbid. Hey guys, you've been here before probably. Yeah, you probably have, and if you haven't, welcome. Hey, what's up?

Starting point is 00:02:28 Welcome. You're coming in on a weird case, because we're getting like weirdly demonic. Ooh. And we have a lot of priests in this week, so this ends. Yeah, brothers, yeah, no, that's weird. I thought you were about to say there's a lot of priests in yours,

Starting point is 00:02:41 and I was like, my whole thing is about a priest. I also have a lot of priests. Or a pastor, I think there's a difference. I a lot of priests in yours, and I was like, my whole thing is about a priest. I also have a lot of priests. Or a pastor, I think there's a difference. I have lots of priests in mine. I have pastors and youth pastors. There you go, I have demons. I have the warrants in mine. Ooh, you got any prophecies?

Starting point is 00:02:58 Kind of. I have a lot of prophecies. Yeah, there's a claimed and alleged prophecy. Should we play like demon bingo? My god, guys, set up a demon bingo when you get to my key. They have to be finished mind, can bind me and Alaina's and make a demon bingo. I love that. And when you get bingo instead of saying bingo, you have to say something in Latin.

Starting point is 00:03:17 Oh, don't read the Latin. Do not read the Latin. No, bye, babe. Well, I don't think we have anything we really want to touch upon this week. No, the Vendorpha rules finale, our reunion hasn't happened yet. So we got nothing to talk about. If we have something to talk about, we will touch upon it in the next episode, but right now, um, I have nothing.

Starting point is 00:03:37 My brain is just thinking about demons and the warrants and all this craziness. So we are talking about today. Today? The case that the conjuring part three, the devil may be doing it is based on. Ooh, slightly. Fun fact, I've never seen any of the conjuring movies. I saw the first one.

Starting point is 00:03:57 Or wait, is that, is the first one Annabelle? Or is that a completely separate video? Yeah, that's what I've wronged. Never seen any of them. No, the first conjuring I thought was great. I didn't see any of the other ones. So, maybe they're great too. Yeah, the first one was fun.

Starting point is 00:04:09 Religious scaring movies have a way of like really scaring the shit out of me. So I tend to. That's what I love about them. A CI tend to avoid them. You don't wanna be scared? No, I do, but I wanna be scared in a different way. I don't like the religious way. I don't like the religious scared feeling.

Starting point is 00:04:24 Well, the first one is fun. I think the first one has like a fun haunted house kind of thing. This one's definitely more religious-based, but I don't think the first one's like super religious. I think it's more just haunted house fun. Yeah. But this one is actually, this case is called, the devil made me do it case.

Starting point is 00:04:44 Oh. So the third conjuring is based off of this, they definitely go a little, you know, they take some artistic license towards the end, but they do base a lot of the facts of the case on this. Okay. This is a wild case. You're gonna have your own thoughts about it.

Starting point is 00:05:00 Okay. Have those thoughts. I will. Everyone's entitled to them. I just want to get that right off the bat. Oh, her face. There's beliefs here that everybody's going to have different beliefs about. Okay. There's, there's, you know, demonic possession. There's exorcisms. The church is involved, you know, the warrants are involved. People have thoughts about all these things. And you're allowed to have those thoughts have them.

Starting point is 00:05:26 Exist with them. But this one involves a guy named Arnie Johnson and his, at the time, his girlfriend Debbie Glatzell. Okay. We're gonna start with talking about them because they are, you know, where the actual criminal case comes in. Oh, shit.

Starting point is 00:05:43 So according to his family growing up, Arnie Johnson was always a kind, thoughtful person. He'd go out of his way to help others. He was a pretty normal kid. His name's Arnie, so I feel like he kind of has to be friendly. I feel like you have to. Arnie's, you know, they said that while everyone around

Starting point is 00:06:00 him, all his peers were, you know, drinking and, you know, going to clubs, just being rowdy teenagers. Irony. Irony. Irony was singing in the church choir and just playing Little League and taking his younger sister fishing. Oh, just like, you know, he's just being a good brother.

Starting point is 00:06:16 Good old American boy. His, one of his friends said to reporters, this isn't direct quote. He didn't go disco-ing. He wasn't into drugs. He doesn't go disco-ing, he wasn't into drugs, he doesn't have long hair and he never raised his voice. Okay. I would like to point out that disco-ing, having long hair and raising one's voice

Starting point is 00:06:34 was just attributed to being a bad person here. Yeah. I don't know about that, but okay. No long hair. Okay, we are in Connecticut. Just want to point that out. But yeah, so that I was like disco-ing, huh? Disco-ing is leads to having long hair.

Starting point is 00:06:53 Be in a bad, be in a bad. And it's like what would constitute raising one's voice? Where is the line there? Like, you see that's also like everybody has a different opinion on that. Like what is loud to someone, not loud to another. Exactly. I don't know. But apparently his parents separated pretty early on in his life.

Starting point is 00:07:12 He was only nine months old. Oh, that's sad. There were periods that they attempted to reconcile with each other, but they didn't work out. And they officially divorced when he was about four years old. Oh, shit. That's a long time. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:07:24 To mulchui. Yeah. His mother, Mary Johnson, was a single mother at the time. She struggled kind of working several jobs just to support Arnie and his younger sisters, Wanda and Janice. Wanda. There was also a younger cousin named Mary who was living with the family on and off,

Starting point is 00:07:39 so she was supporting her as well. When he finished eighth grade, he did try to move in with his father who at the time was working as a landscaper in Bethel, Connecticut. But unfortunately, it didn't really work out. I think they just couldn't really make their relationship work that closely after all that time. That's sad. It was like kind of moving in with someone you don't really know. Yeah, that well. So he ended up returning to live with his mother and his sisters in In Bridgeport, pretty quickly, after trying this out with his dad.

Starting point is 00:08:06 But Arnie's mother was really trying her best, just kind of struggling to support all these children on her own. That's a lot of kids. So Arnie ended up dropping out of school at 16 to work odd jobs and just try to support his siblings as well. And it always makes me so sad when like a kid will drop out of school to like help the family.

Starting point is 00:08:23 Yeah, like to try to help out. Yeah. Now, according to his mother, she said, quote, he took odd jobs. That was really the only reason he left school was to help support us. And it was through his mother that Arnie Johnson met his future girlfriend and then wife, Debbie, Debbie Glatsoe. He was just 12 years old when they met or she was 19. Oh shit. Yep. Oh shit. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:08:49 Yep. It was 1974 and Debbie was working as a checkout clerk at a local grocery store. She later said, quote, I knocked over a display in the supermarket and Arnie said to his mother, I'm going to help that lady. I'd like to point out that I'm uncomfortable here. I would like to point out that I think we should all be uncomfortable here. This is the part where I get uncomfortable, and I stay uncomfortable. Debbie and Mary Johnson became close friends

Starting point is 00:09:14 through seeing each other at the grocery store. Reminder, Mary is Arnie's mother. Arnie is 12. Debbie and Mary, Arnie's brother, Arnauf, close friends. Yeah, what the fuck is happening here? So despite this seven year age difference, and remember, it's all about phases of life. If they were in their 30s, if they were in their 20s, even this is a different story, 12 and 19,

Starting point is 00:09:39 no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's also all about the law, like that's illegal. It's like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, And they began dating. They didn't date when he was 12, but that's when she had met him. It's fucking weird. Yeah. At the beginning of their relationship, they actually lived with Debbie's family in Brookfield for a few months to save their money. And by 1980, when he was technically an adult, the couple decided to move in together. And they also brought along Arnie's mother, sisters, and younger cousin, Mary, the one

Starting point is 00:10:24 that was living with them, to live with them in a small house that they found to rent in nearby Newtown. So Debbie said about that home. It was like my dream house. I thought we could build a nice, beautiful life there. Okay, Debbie. Spoiler alert, they didn't. Yeah, I mean, I figured.

Starting point is 00:10:41 They were very excited about the move, but that all changed very quickly. Because on moving day, Debbie's 11-year-old brother, David, had an alleged paranormal experience that terrified them and changed everybody's lives. Oh, shit. Debbie's brother, you said? Yes. So Debbie's little brother, it was 11 years old, David.

Starting point is 00:11:00 According to Debbie, David really liked Arnie. We got along very well with him. Just wanted to be around him a lot, so he wanted to help the couple move that day. And so the day of the move, he went with them to get everything settled. And when they got to the house, they noticed that the previous tenants had left some furniture, which included a bed in the main bedroom. And it was while he was cleaning in the main bedroom that David, the 11-year-old, first saw what he called the fiendish-looking figure that he described as an old man,

Starting point is 00:11:29 burnt to and black looking. Ooh, yeah. And apparently, he was basically telling them, beware, get out of this house. That was the vibe that David was getting. The little 11 year old. Now, apparently upon seeing this horrifying sight, David yelled, screamed,

Starting point is 00:11:45 and ran from the house all together. And this is like during the day, it sounds like. This is during the day. And Debbie and Arnie followed out behind him, and he was freaking out. He would not go back in the house. Um, David told the his sister that the old man had pushed him and that he was not going back in that house. He was terrified. And he wouldn't. Debbie and Arnie went back in and continued cleaning, but David stayed outside until they were ready to leave. He wouldn't go back in. So later that night, over dinner at Debbie's parents' house, Debbie and Arnie were telling Debbie's mom about what had happened at the house. And while they were talking about it, David came out

Starting point is 00:12:19 of his bedroom and said he was still having visions of the old man in the house, but now he could hear his voice in this house. Now, according to David, in visions, he could see the old man and he said, this old man has an animal trapped in the house and is tormenting it. And he said the animal is scratching out the door, trying to escape. What the fuck?

Starting point is 00:12:39 And this kid is just coming out of this with nowhere. Like, he's coming out of there. He's never had any other like conversations like this. Not that we know of. Okay. But over time, he would keep elaborating on this story and it became more and more detailed. And the man eventually apparently was described as having like hooves for feet in that this sometimes there was other men around him and they were wearing grotesque costumes,

Starting point is 00:13:06 like it was getting scarier and scarier. And as this got more detailed and more frequent, the story started to scare Debbie. And she honestly wondered, should we move into this little rental house? I don't think we should. I mean, after a while, you would start to be nervous. But they had invested so much time and money in it

Starting point is 00:13:23 that they really couldn't afford to back out. So they did return to Newtown the following day and kept moving into the house. And when they got to the house that day, things changed a little bit. Because Arnie and Debbie immediately noticed scratches on the inside of the front door. And they looked like an animal had caused it. Oh, shit. Oh, yeah. That would freak me out. So Arnie later told producers of a haunting, which was a reality series that talks about

Starting point is 00:13:48 paranormal experiences. He said, when I saw the scratches on the door, I was starting to really question, well, maybe something is definitely wrong here. Now I have to ask, did David see those scratches the day before when he was helping them move and was possibly influenced by that. Like maybe he did see something scary and maybe he saw those scratches and it made its way into the narrative of the story. Do we know if the previous tenants had a doll?

Starting point is 00:14:14 We do not know that. So that's the thing. I was like, Bailey, we didn't train her to like, oh my God, I've been on the ball for a minute. I've been on the ball for a minute. I've been on the ball for a minute. Like we've now got a bell on the door for us and you blanch, but with Bailey, I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach.

Starting point is 00:14:26 I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach.

Starting point is 00:14:34 I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach.

Starting point is 00:14:42 I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. I've been on the beach. what David was saying about the old man and what he was seeing was true. And he was like, they had already invested two months rent into this place, but they decided they weren't moving in after this. Wow. So Arnie and Debbie felt comfortable with this decision. They were like, nope, not doing it.

Starting point is 00:14:55 But Mary Johnson, who is Arnie's mom, she was not so convinced that there was really reason to back out of this. Mainly because Mary had already given notice to her landlord that she was going to be moving out. And how did the plan was she was going to move into this house with Debbie and Arnie with her kids. And so she was like, so Arnie and Debbie were going to live with Debbie's family in Brookfield for the time being until they could find another place. But Mary and her children had already given notice to the landlord.

Starting point is 00:15:25 So they decided to actually move into the house in Newtown. I mean, where else exactly where else could they go? So you would think that the house in Newtown, that place is going to be where the problem is. No, no, no. That didn't have a problem. Now Arnie and Debbie, now their plans have been put on hold. They're not moving into that little house.

Starting point is 00:15:43 His mom did. His little sisters have. So they kind of took all their stuff out of that house, went back to Debbie's parents' house. They were gonna stay there for a while. But when they got there, Debbie's mom was very agitated. And she was saying that David had been upset all evening

Starting point is 00:15:58 and was insisting that the old man who he was now calling the beast was angry with him for telling Arnie and Debbie not to move into that house in Newtown. And what David was saying was that the beast had followed him from that home and was had followed him to the Brookfield home and was now in their house. Okay. And that he wanted to take his soul, that he was like aggressive, like he was pushing him and scratching him and hurting him. And Arnie later said, quote, the fear in this child was so overwhelming, something was going wrong and I believed him.

Starting point is 00:16:29 Okay. So the following day, Arnie and Debbie were like, you know what, like he's so upset, let's get him out of the house for a little while. So they were hoping like just a casual afternoon outside at the park or whatever was gonna hopefully take his mind off the scary ass old man beast that he was seeing. Distract him.

Starting point is 00:16:46 Seemed like it was going okay, but then when they returned back to the glatsel house of Brookfield, David refused to go inside. And he told his sister the beast was in that house and he was like, I'm not going in. And they had to convince him. It took a lot of convincing for him to finally go in that house. He got if my kid starts doing this shit, man.

Starting point is 00:17:04 I'm gonna... I got it wrong. I got it wrong. I got it too much. We're turning the whole ass kid. And that night as David was going to bed, it apparently escalated. And according to Arnie and Debbie, David was being physically attacked by an unseen force.

Starting point is 00:17:18 Y'all, David just didn't want to go to bed. This force was striking him, pushing him around the room. Arnie said later, quote, the scariest part to me was seeing David go through this with nothing there to do it. It was terrifying. So no one knew what to do. Okay.

Starting point is 00:17:33 And he was having outbursts. Like according to them, he was having convulsions. He was yelling, screaming, swearing, kicking, becoming more and more aggressive. And David's 11 at this point. And it's like out of character. It's out of like like, it's, to death, according to them, it's out of nowhere. It's getting worse and worse.

Starting point is 00:17:46 So they don't know what to do. Me, I would call a doctor, Debbie's family went to the priest at their church and asked if they could perform an exorcism or some kind of similar, similar ritual. Since the early 1960s, the Catholic church had definitely tried to minimize, like the talk of demons and the people 1960s, the Catholic Church had definitely tried to minimize

Starting point is 00:18:06 like the talk of demons and evil like that, like this kind of thing. But then Rosemary's baby and the exorcist came out. It became more popular. People started suddenly knowing about exorcisms. People who didn't know about it previously. Suddenly, it's a thing where like everybody needs an exorcism. Right. And after hearing the family story about what's going on with David, the priest who is unnamed, lots of unnamed priests in here, there's always unnamed priests.

Starting point is 00:18:36 Yeah, because there isn't. So the priest told the family he wasn't going to do an exorcism because he was like, that's kind of wild. And you need a lot of permissions, and it's like this big process. We can't gonna do an exorcism because he was like, that's kind of wild. And you need a lot of permissions. And it's like this big process. We can't just do one. Well, it seems like you're like jumping. Well, and he's literally like, you would have to wait for weeks for us to get approval from like higher ups in the diocese. Like, we can't just perform exorcisms. We're really dangerous. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:19:00 Yeah. Very involved. Do we need lots of people? So he was like, yeah, I'm not gonna do an exorcism, but he was like, let me do some more research. And while I'm doing this research for what I can do for you, why don't you bless your house with some holy water, light some candles, do some prayers, get outta here. So it seems very helpful, thanks. So shockingly, the thoughts and prayers method

Starting point is 00:19:24 of getting rid of evil had little effect on this whole thing. Usually does. David's behavior did not change. What was happening to him was not changing. Allegedly, he was speaking in Latin at times and reciting passages for Paradise Lost. He was contorting, screaming. It was getting worse and worse. What is Paradise Lost? It's a poem about a battle between Satan and God.

Starting point is 00:19:47 Oh, okay. So it's got religious connotations and also like a cultish connotations in it. Oh, okay. I just know it as the documentary. I was gonna say, I know you're thinking of the Robin Hills murders. Yes.

Starting point is 00:20:02 The West Memphis Three. Yeah. That's kind of why it's very much in culture, in popular culture, the name Paradise Lost. But he was 11 at the time. He had not read the epic poem by John Miller, so apparently apparently reciting things from it was strange to the family, which I understand it would be that strange to me.

Starting point is 00:20:23 I got that. So out of options again, the family went back to the family, which I understand it would be that'd be strange to me. I got that. So, you know, out of options, again, the family went back to the unnamed priest who had now agreed to come to the glatsole house to perform a blessing ritual. Not an exorcism, just blessing the house. Well, that's the thing. I'm like, usually there are a couple steps first. Yeah. There's the holy water in the blessing.

Starting point is 00:20:41 You lead up to the exorcism. You know, read a prayer, a Hail Mary, yes. But there's a Hail Mary. Exorcism. Yeah, they're like up to the exorcism. Read a prayer, a Hail Mary, yes. But there's hail in the exorcism. Yeah, they're like we need an exorcism. Now, according to the glat cells, when the priest had completed the blessing, he told them it's definitely not gonna be sufficient enough to end what's going on here.

Starting point is 00:20:58 Like I've done my best, but he was like, then they said he, this unnamed priest, who is never named, told them to reach out to Ed and Lorraine Warren, who are a husband and wife team of paranormal investigators who lived in nearby Monroe, Connecticut. Okay. So this was interesting. So Dave, our Dave found some information that was really interesting to me. This story has been told over and over in various forms of media over the years, like in the basis of a conjuring movie. I know it's so funny because I know nothing about it.

Starting point is 00:21:32 Yeah, it's been told a million times, but the more sensational parts of the ones, everyone remembers, or the ones that get retolds, but there is lesser parts of this story that are pretty important just around the whole thing out. I don't think it's good to tell this story from one point of view, which is demon possession. Yeah, no. I think it's probably smart to look at the other people involved. And if somebody else is saying, I didn't see any of that, then at least you need to hear

Starting point is 00:21:57 that part of it. That's not fun. And not discussed a lot with the fact that there was a third glatso child who falls between David and Debbie in birth order and has a very different version of events than his two, then, you know, especially his older sibling, Debbie. So I was going to say in the middle of David and Debbie. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:22:16 So David is his younger brother and he's very protective of him. What is this person's name? Carl. Dammit. I thought it was all going to be D's and that's something that happens in my story. And I was like, whoa. You like, wait a second, you know, this guy's Carl. That's what it's like.

Starting point is 00:22:29 That was amazing. I wish John was up here. Carl. Carl. But I'm not saying who's right or wrong because none of us were there, but it's interesting that Carl Jr. has a different version of events. And he shouldn't be left out of the narrative for the sake of only telling the demon narrative. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪

Starting point is 00:22:56 This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Sometimes at the end of the week, you're like, I think I spent about 65 hours working this week and maybe like two on myself, if that, and you're like, ooh, that was a lot. It leaves you feeling drained, tired, aggravated, irritated at other people, just low and bad. Listen, it's easy to get caught up

Starting point is 00:23:16 in what everybody else needs from you and never take a moment to think about what you need from yourself. But when we spend all of our time giving, giving, giving, it can leave us feeling stretched then and burned out. But you don't all of our time giving, giving, giving, it can leave us feeling stretched then and burned out. But you don't have to feel that way. You can give therapy a try because therapy can give you the tools that you need to find more balance in your life. And I think personally that that's really what life is all about balance. You can

Starting point is 00:23:39 keep supporting others, but not leave yourself behind. That is honestly one of the biggest lessons that I personally learned in therapy is how to balance your life. You have to pour into your cup before you pour into somebody else's sometimes. Because then you're gonna feel happier lighter like you've done something for yourself and once you've done something for yourself

Starting point is 00:23:58 then do something for somebody else. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give better help a try. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists any time for no additional charge. Find more balance with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash morbid today to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelpHELP.com slash morbid. Did you know that GoodRx can help you save on prescriptions for your everyday health needs this summer?

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Starting point is 00:25:03 or not, even if you have insurance, GoodRx works whether you have insurance or not. Even if you have insurance, goodRx could beat your co-pay price. It has happened to me multiple times at this point. GoodRx is saving me so much money at the pharmacy that I'm about to go out and just, I don't know, rent a beach house this summer, imagine? That'd be great. For simple smart savings on your prescriptions, the summer check goodRx. Go to goodRx.com slash morbid. That is gooderex.com slash morbid. So beginning in 1979, Carl Gladsel, Jr. was 14 years old, and he said at that, the beginning of 1979, he was feeling very helpless because he was watching his younger brother, David's mental and emotional health begin to rapidly decline. That's how he saw it. And at first he said this manifested with some

Starting point is 00:25:50 acute behavioral problems. He saw him having trouble in school, like learning disabilities. But by 1980, the problems really allegedly escalated. He said David began experiencing what Carl referred to as delusions. And he said he was having seizures sometimes or what he saw as seizures and other people maybe saw as convulsions exactly and Carl told reporters in 2007 It was a living hell when we were kids. It was an absolute nightmare. That's really sad. David's issues were spiritual and not physical or psychological. So they insisted on turning to a priest at church instead of a doctor. But when he, this priest, this unnamed priest, was unable to offer really anything besides this blessing ritual in like a little bit of spiritual guidance and like Ed and Lorraine Warren.

Starting point is 00:26:41 He says he believes his parents turn to the Warrens. His family turn to the Warrens themselves. And what Carl says is that the Warrens saw their family as a gold mine. Oh shit. Allegedly. Yeah, allegedly, of course. This is just a part of the story not often included.

Starting point is 00:26:59 And it's important to talk about the fact that not everyone in the family saw this as a spiritual or demonic issue. Yeah. At least Carl saw it as a psychological or physical issue that a doctor, a medical doctor should have been consulted on. Well, that's the thing. It's like you can consult a doctor and a priest.

Starting point is 00:27:17 Yeah. You don't have to consult with. Neither is exclusive. Yeah, exactly. You can have both of them working at the same time. Right. Now, back to where we were. Ed and Lorraine Warren have entered the chat now.

Starting point is 00:27:26 Can I stop you for a quick second? Yes. So David, sorry, Carl sees David having all these problems. And the problems that he saw started before even, he's like talked about the beast or right around the same time. No, he said it's about the same time. He just saw it starting to rapidly decline. Okay, gotcha.

Starting point is 00:27:42 He said it was small, but it started to really escalate. So Ed and Lorraine Warren have entered the chat. And by this time, they had been, but by the time that they became involved with this whole thing, they were already very well known. Since the early 1950s, even the Warrens had been involved in paranormal investigations. Lorraine was a psychic medium,

Starting point is 00:28:04 and Ed was a self-described demonologist. They flew under the radar at first a little bit, but in 1975 is when they really blew up to paranormal stardom, which makes sense. Because that's when Ronald DeFaio, Jr. went on trial for the murder of his family in Amityville, New York.

Starting point is 00:28:23 The Amityville Horror is very well known to both horror and true crime buffs worldwide. It's become its own kind of cultural force at this point, but in the beginning, it was a real straightforward shocking case of a family annihilation. Yeah, that's what it is. I know. I think that gets lost. It gets buried, which is really tragic. It was on November 14th, 1974,

Starting point is 00:28:46 that Ronald Defeo Jr. silently went room by room and his family home in the middle of the night shooting and killing his parents, Ronald Defeo senior and Louise Defeo and four siblings. Don, his sibling Don 18, Allison 13, Mark 12 and John 9. So sad. They were all in their beds

Starting point is 00:29:04 and he shot them all in the head with a rifle. After doing so, he left and he just unleashed and unloaded what he had just done to a bar full of people and was very much quickly arrested. Initially, he claimed that these killings were a professional hit. That was his initial story, initial story, excuse me, but that felt part pretty fast. And it became clear that it was him. He had done it. Yeah. He struggled a lot with several different things. He had a terrible, tumultuous, violent relationship with his father. There were many factors in this whole case that you can point to for what was going on at that time.

Starting point is 00:29:44 That's the straightforward answer for that. Yeah. A year later, so that happened can point to for what was going on at that time, that's the straightforward answer for that. Yeah. A year later, so that happened, and that was like, whoa, okay, yeah, family annihilation, that's horrific, what a case, what an awful thing to happen, what a vibe that house must have now, the end, no. Well, a year later, a newly married couple

Starting point is 00:30:04 named George and Kathy Lutz moved into the defaio home with their blended family. Even though that home had those like, bad, you know, what had happened there, they were like, you know what, we're going to make it our home. It's okay. But after living there for only about a month, they abandoned it, leaving a lot of things behind just fleeing that house. They claimed it was haunted, it was horrible, horrible things were happening in that house. The claims were very, very heavily and completely investigated by skeptics,

Starting point is 00:30:35 paranormal investigators, literally any money that could go in there. They were pretty, pretty, like, quickly looked at as like, I don't know about that. Right. Pretty unfounded. But the people who really believed them, really believed them. And two of those people were Ed and Lorraine Warren. Also, DeFail's lawyer, William Weber, looked at this and said, Oh, I believe them too. And he claimed that DeFail was possessed by a demonic entity

Starting point is 00:31:02 when he murdered his family. What an argument. The same entity that drove the lutses from their house. So the story behind the supposed Amityville haunting and its connection to the defail murders is so long, so complicated, very confusing at times. There's just a lot there, very layered. But in the decades that followed this whole thing, claims of demonic possession and hauntings at the Defeo slash later, Lutz household, we're definitely called into

Starting point is 00:31:31 question in some court cases where they admitted it was a hoax. Yeah. It was very much admitted to being a hoax, but people were really interested in it. There's novels. There's a long line of films that, you know, catapulted the whole thing into like the zeitgeist and everybody questioning whether, everybody wants to believe that the haunting

Starting point is 00:31:55 of the Amity Villas true, I did it too. When I first read it. People love hauntings, people love like spooky shit. And Amity Villas like the most iconic to most people. And I remember like when I was younger and I first read about it, I was like, oh my God, and you read about the walls bleeding and you're like, holy shit, the walls fled.

Starting point is 00:32:11 Like that's wild. All the flies. All the flies, like the pig in the corner with the glowing red eyes, like what the fuck? And it's like, so to hear it was all bullshit. And this is just a straightforward story of like a really tragic, tragic family annihilation. It's, of course, everybody's like, oh, bummer.

Starting point is 00:32:31 Yeah, nobody wants to look to that part of it. And then Lorraine are a huge part of this story because they really went hard at it. They believed it. It catapulted them into the public eye at that point. And they were the it couple of the paranormal world at that point. And they were like the it couple of the paranormal world at that time. They got booked on talk shows. They were becoming public speakers. They this shot them into the stratosphere. Now, according to Lorraine Warren,

Starting point is 00:32:56 the blessings on the glatsoles house, bringing it back to this case, it had no effect on David glatsoles' behavior. When she went in there, she saw that they had done nothing, which the glatzel's preached apparently according to them had reached out to the Warrens because he also believed it wasn't going to have an effect on David. They lived only 30 minutes away from this family, so they were like, why not? And Lorraine claims she received the call from that unnamed priest who said, there's something definitely wrong, and I believe it would be possession. So I'd like you to look into it. The rain claim she received the call from that unnamed priest who said, there's something definitely wrong and I believe it would be possession.

Starting point is 00:33:28 So I'd like you to look into it. Okay. This is what she said. And she said, the priest told her the story, told her all about what was going on with David, that he had tried, that the family had tried, with the blessings and nothing worked, and that they needed urgent help. So they went straight from Monroe and went right to the glatsole home pretty shortly after.

Starting point is 00:33:49 But other people say that the mom just called them directly. That's Carl's feeling. That's Carl's feeling. I don't know if anybody else feels that way. These are just feelings. Nobody really knows what happened. But when Lorraine met David, she said she believed,

Starting point is 00:34:03 whoops, sorry, I just dropped my, uh, charger, how dare you. How dare I? Lorraine said she believed there was, quote, a creature in that child's body. Wow. And she said that creature was there to cause considerable psychic and physical harm to him and his family.

Starting point is 00:34:19 But like why though? I'm not really sure. But you know, it was there apparently. The glatzels told Ed and Lorraine that David's behavior was becoming increasingly more aggressive. They had seen the beatings that had been inflicted upon this boy by this unseen beast themselves. And of course, the Warrens looked at this and said 100% he is possessed by a demon. Now Debbie Glatzel figured it was linked to the property somehow, which makes no sense because it initially supposedly

Starting point is 00:34:52 attached to him at the other house where Mary Johnson is currently living fine. But she figured, why can't we just move away from this house and hopefully solve the problem? But Lorraine was like, no. It doesn't work that much. It would do no good at this point because it would follow us. That's the difference between a haunted house and haunted people. Say what you want about the warrants, but they know how to speak spooky. That's what I have to say

Starting point is 00:35:16 about that. The difference between a haunted house and haunted people. Yeah, that's, that's wonderful. All right, I get it. I I guess I would get sucked into I would too. So the Warrens insisted according to them the only thing that was going to fix David was an actual exorcism performed by Catholic preach priest. But like I said before, you don't just get an exorcism. Right. Getting an approval for an exorcism can take months. You have to petition the church. They have to go through a whole thing. They didn't have that kind of time.

Starting point is 00:35:49 David is increasingly getting worse and worse. So luckily Ed Warren tells the family, don't worry about it. I can perform a minor exorcism, which can be done sooner. Okay. And the glat cells were like cool. Interesting that this sounds like super duper dire. And he's like, I think a minor exorcism will do that.

Starting point is 00:36:07 I think I can just like do a quick deal. It sounds like if he needs an exorcism, he needs a motherfucking exorcism. Yeah, that's like, don't you think that if you have to get like all that permission and shit, there's a reason there's a reason you have to do that. Yeah. Now, according to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, minor exorcisms are quote, prayers used to break the influence of evil in sin and a person's life. I just have to say, it's wild, that like actual documents exist,

Starting point is 00:36:35 that like explain what this is, how to go about it. That's just how I feel. And here's the thing, I am a believer in many things. I'm also a healthy, I was meaning to say healthy, and also a hard time. I'm also a healthy skeptic, but an open-minded skeptic. I'm willing and honestly eager to have my mind changed about certain things. That's true, she is. But I am always looking at the logical side of things

Starting point is 00:37:07 if I possibly can. Demonic possession? I can't rule it out in life. No, and I can't believe that it don't put it through. It happens. I can't say that I don't think that anything like that could have. I can't say it because I don't know. I'm not here to say I know either way.

Starting point is 00:37:26 That would be foolish to me. But I think when it comes to like the religious part of it is where I have the problem mainly because I am not a religious person. So to me, why would that help me if I don't believe in it? You know, and I feel like some people that are dealing with this possibly maybe don't believe in it either.

Starting point is 00:37:45 And is that gonna help them? Like why is it so kind? And I know it's so connected because of the Bible and all the stories and everything. Like Satan and all that. Well, and I think a lot of times people that believe in demons think they're like, like hell's demons.

Starting point is 00:38:00 Yeah. It's just, I feel like it's too linked with religion for me to fully engage in it but I'm I'm I like believe in ghosts. I believe in well, that's the thing bad entities I but I look at it more like energy a bad entity. Yeah, like I don't look at it as like a hell demon Same, you know like cuz I don't think it has any link to that. I think it's just bad Right, that's what I was just gonna it has any link to that. I think it's just bad. Right. That's what I was just going to say. And I think that's where I lose it.

Starting point is 00:38:26 And I think a lot of times, like, things are bad because of, like, energy and things that happened there. Yeah. Like, I can get down with the idea that, like, a ghost is a, like, this is at least what I kind of think, is, like, a ghost was a person. Yeah. But a bad entity, like a demon per se, like the, like a, if I see what, like something that I feel like maybe was a demonic person, maybe wasn't even a person. It's just bad energy. That's what I think too.

Starting point is 00:38:52 But I don't know. But then I think there can also be bad spirits that were people. Yeah, exactly because it's bad people. Yeah. So it's like, I don't know. I don't know exactly how I believe it. I just know I don't know everything about it. So I'm not going to sit here and pretend like I do.

Starting point is 00:39:06 Yeah. And say that like all that's bullshit, because I don't know. So it's like I'm very open-minded to understanding it, but when it gets too wrapped up with like this kind of thing, I'm like you're losing me, because I don't think I believe that that's where it comes from.

Starting point is 00:39:22 But you might. So. And that's fine. Yeah, exactly. But I might. So. And that's fine. Yeah, exactly. But I'm just saying what I think. So while the glatsoes waited to hear back from the Warrens about getting this minor exorcism up in chuggan, David's behavior got worse and it got more aggressive.

Starting point is 00:39:38 So Lorraine later told reporters, you can't even begin to believe the things we witnessed in that home and to that boy. He came under hideous attacks. He had marks all over his body. He could tell things that were going to happen in the future. The Warren said that they saw David levitate off his bed. Okay. So eventually they began to record their interactions with David because pictures or it didn't happen. Yes, obviously. But mainly audio recordings.

Starting point is 00:40:04 Oh, so pictures and it didn't happen. Yes, obviously. But mainly audio recordings. Oh, so pictures and it didn't happen. Exactly. So audio recording or it didn't happen. In a recording made October 14, 1980, David, you can hear David breathing really heavily and he's making like guttural sounds. So that's really scary.

Starting point is 00:40:18 And then it's followed by a voice, Debbie says is David, saying, Cheyenne dies at work tomorrow. Now this was apparently a reference to Arnie Johnson because his middle name is Cheyenne. Oh. Now according to Debby, the next day Arnie, who was worked at a tree surgery company, fell 20 feet from a tree and suffered a quote, minor knee injury. Oh, shit. So like he didn't die. No, he had a minor knee injury. Oh shit. So like he didn't die. No, he had a minor knee injury. Yeah, but I mean to fall 20 feet from a tree, that's really fucking scary.

Starting point is 00:40:53 I found no reports of this, but it happened according to them. So allegedly that happened. He had a minor knee injury, so he didn't die at work that day, but- But something scary happened. Very strange, and if it did happen, then like, whoa, something bad happened, and he could have died. Yeah, exactly.

Starting point is 00:41:13 So there's that. A near death experience. Exactly. So maybe he just wasn't being detailed, you know? But in another incident, Arnie apparently, and this happened a lot, apparently Arnie would challenge the demon. I thought you were gonna say, this happened a lot, Arnie just this happened a lot. Apparently Arnie would challenge the demon. I thought you were gonna say this happened a lot.

Starting point is 00:41:27 Arnie just fell from a lot of trees. He just fell a lot. No, no. Arnie would challenge the demon a lot. Okay. And he would challenge it to leave David's body and enter his. Oh. Now, but he was 19 at the time.

Starting point is 00:41:42 Tough guy. Tough guy. Tough guy shit. And he loves this boy. And again, David was really close to Arnie at some point, according to reports, according to the family. So he didn't like seeing them like this. Yes, he did. A brotherly relationship.

Starting point is 00:41:57 So he would do this a lot. He would like, and Lorraine and Ed would look at it as taunting. And they said that it was not a good idea. And they didn't like that he was doing it. And Arnie can be heard on a recording saying, tell him I'll fight him. And after that, Arnie claims he started having paranormal experiences of his own.

Starting point is 00:42:16 And you would see a dark figure like things were happening. It's such new in the vibes right there. Like tell him I'll fight him. Tell that demon I'll fucking fight him, Ken. Thank you so much for saying that because all I a picture with somebody being like tell them all fight them They come at me bro get out of here. Yeah, I'm sorry. That's all I know it's true because that's such new England I'm like are you like from Massachusetts? That's very Massachusetts vibes like squaring up with the demon like I have a fucking kid

Starting point is 00:42:41 I'll fight you like get out of here. Let's bring this down to dunk it. All right. I'll take it outside. I'll be a media mice regular and then I'll fight you. I thought that same thing when I read it. I'm like, this is so new England. It's like damn. And again, very massive. She says. Like, very dumb new England being like, get out of our fight. But yeah, he started seeing dark figures. He was having experience of his own. And in an interview later, Debbie recalled an incident where she said, her and Arnie were having a discussion with another couple. And Arnie out of nowhere began to growl

Starting point is 00:43:16 and started shaking all over. And she said, I could tell it wasn't Arnie. Okay. Now later, I think the other couple feel about that. Right? Nobody tells you how they reacted. Yeah. I think other couples feel about that. Right. Nobody tells you like how they reacted. Yeah. And in a New York Times article, his David's mother further said what was happening with David

Starting point is 00:43:35 at the time, saying he would kick, bite, spit, terrible swear words. And she said that he was thrown around on the floor like a rag doll. She remembered seeing it. But then she was quoted as saying about David and he can't even do a sit-up. He's too fat. Oh, that's so weird. And I was like,

Starting point is 00:43:51 and I was like, and I was like, and I was like, and I was like, and I was like, and I was like, and I was like, and I was like,

Starting point is 00:43:59 and I was like, and I was like, and I was like, and I was like, and I was like, and I was like, and I was like, and I was like, and I was just thought it was like so shitty. I was like, that's like a that's a weird thing to throw at the end of that. Like to talk about your son so mean and callously. Yeah, I was like, I don't like that. I can't imagine ever calling, I mean, anyone fat, but especially my child. Because in my opinion, like, like no matter what something was happening with

Starting point is 00:44:18 David. Yeah, obviously. Whether you believe it is a demonic possession or you believe he is going through some kind of mental illness, in very discretion. Mental illness. He's suffering. He is going through it, and he's not getting the proper help. And it's like to talk about him like that,

Starting point is 00:44:35 like that just wasn't cool to me. I was like, I don't know about that. Well, no, it doesn't sound very loving. No, that was just like, I was like, whoa. And I'm like, you're so worried about him, but you still have time to be good. Yeah, like you didn't have to say that. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:44:48 Like you could have just said like he got thrown around on the floor, it was wild. Yeah. Like the end. Right. You don't need to add that extra crack and you can even say he wasn't very agile. Yeah, like any way of saying it.

Starting point is 00:44:57 But either way, by the end of 1980, David's behavior reached peak, uh-oh status. When in a fit of rage, he allegedly tried to stab Arnie with a kitchen knife. Oh, no. According to allegedly. Yeah, again, I'm saying there's no report of this. It's just fine to report of this. But according to the glatsoils, David claimed the beast had called on more demons to possess him.

Starting point is 00:45:22 So it wasn't just the beast anymore. There were several demons. In fact, according to Ed and Lorraine, there were 43. It's specific. Yep. If you've listened to the show before, then you have definitely heard me talk about Simply Safe. I freaking love Simply Safe. You know they were named Best Home Security of 2023 by US News and World Report.

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Starting point is 00:47:55 away to jail in high numbers, and often for committing only minor offenses. The FBI began looking at two local judges, and when the full picture emerged, it made national headlines. The judges were earning a fortune, carrying out a brazen criminal scheme, one that would shatter the lives of countless children, and force a heated debate about punishment, an America's criminal justice system. Follow American scandal wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wonder App. Now, after five weeks, priests from the glatzel's church came to the house to perform a second blessing, which I'm like, guys, it's not working. Put your water away. And then they did do a minor

Starting point is 00:48:40 exorcism, not a full one, not a major one. and there's also no record of them doing an exorcism. Like a factual exorcism. Now, ultimately, the family claims the glat cells claim that four minor exorcisms were performed on David, and in one of them, he stopped breathing and CPR had to be administered. Oh my god. But the priests were eventually according to them, able to expel the demonic entities that were possessing David Glatzel, it worked through the minor exorcisms. Okay. And in the months that followed these minor exorcisms, according to them, things started to settle a little bit.

Starting point is 00:49:19 But then also they claim that David continued to have several behavioral issues and psychiatric problems and showed no improvement. Okay. So, I guess they just gave up on him being possessed. But like, so they said he's not possessed anymore. Nobody really has behavioral issues. Yeah, which to me, I'm like, can we call a doctor now? Can we call a doctor now?

Starting point is 00:49:42 Yeah. Because that's what that says to me. But with the minor exorcisms behind them, they were all concentrating on that for a long time. Now Arnie was able to devote more time to work, where he was working as a tree surgeon, and he was honestly kind of relying on more work because he was helping to support his mother's sisters

Starting point is 00:50:01 and cousins. Debbie was also focusing on work. She got a new job as a groomer at the Brookfield Kennels. Everything seemed to be going smoothly. And while working there, Debbie first, that's where she first met 40-year-old Alan Bono, which, and she had recently moved to Brookfield to manage the kennel.

Starting point is 00:50:21 And he also managed an apartment clump, complex nearby, which I guess they were both owned by his sister, but he was managing them. Now, there were reports later that Arnie said he was feeling strange around this time still. Even though things had settled, he was still feeling strange. And he said that he was having encounters with what he thought were demons or spirits. They were trying to possess him still. He said he believed that him taunting those demons and him telling them to jump to him worked.

Starting point is 00:50:53 And that's something stuck with him. Okay. And he said at the old house, he saw a demon in an old well, like looked him right in the face. And Debbie told reporters later, Cheyenne would go into a trace. Remember Cheyenne's his middle name? Yep.enne would go into a trace, remember Cheyenne's his middle name? Yep, yep. He would go into a trance.

Starting point is 00:51:08 He would growl and say he saw the beast. Later, he would have no memory of it. It was just like David, but they assumed it was just like, leftover demon from David's exorcism, I guess. To me, it sounds like PTSD. Yeah, I'm like, what's good? Because those exorcists,

Starting point is 00:51:23 whatever was going on with David sounded traumatic for everyone involved. And so I assume everyone's going to have some trauma after that. Lingerying effects. But they were looking at us, he was also possessed. Now, but it doesn't sound to me,

Starting point is 00:51:38 they didn't, I couldn't find anything about them doing anything for this. Like Arnie was dealing with this. Right it was going about his day to day life. They didn't call a priest or anything like that. Like you're he's possessed by you're letting him like climb up to tall trees. Yeah. So I get whatever. But at the beginning of the new year, Arnie and Debbie moved into one of the

Starting point is 00:51:57 apartments and bone in, um, Al and bonus complex. Okay. The guy who was working at the kennel, Debbie. Okay. They had Arnie's teenage sisters, Wanda and Janice, and his younger cousin Mary move in with them as well. Okay. So according to Arnie's mother, Arnie and Alan got along very well, had a very friendly relationship. This is according to Arnie's mother. And in 1981, Mary Johnson, Arnie's mother, told reporters, he used to tell me what a wonderful person Mr. Bono was.

Starting point is 00:52:27 Could have been true, but on the afternoon of February 16th, something happened that would suggest that may not be true. Okay. It's difficult to know exactly what happened on this day because several different stories have been told in the only people that can tell the stories are the people that survive the incident.

Starting point is 00:52:49 And they all have different stories. And there's stories that have just changed a little bit. Okay. We're not really sure exactly what happened, but on the afternoon of February 16th, 19-year-old Arnie Johnson and Alan Bono went to lunch at the Mug and Munch Cafe in Brookfield with Arnie Sisters and 26-year-old Debbie Glatzell, his girlfriend. I think it was about three hours they all hung out there,

Starting point is 00:53:12 and apparently the two men drank between 13 and 15 glasses of wine. Sorry, how many? 13 and 15 glasses of wine. And how they were there for three hours? Three hours. 13, between them. Between them, okay, so like call that 14. That's seven glasses of wine each. Four glasses of wine is a bottle. They almost had two bottles of wine each.

Starting point is 00:53:34 Yes. Holy fucking shit. And apparently after that, they group all left the restaurant and went down to the apartment. I don't think Debbie was drinking. Oh my God. I assume they went back to the apartment to I don't think Debbie was drinking. Oh my god. I assume they went back to the apartment to spew for days, but apparently not. Or like to go to sleep forever. Like, oh my god. Now based on interviews with Debbie Glatzel and Wanda Johnson, who was the

Starting point is 00:53:56 older of the sisters. Yep. Police conclude that around 6.30 that evening, Bono had, Alan Bono had made some kind of remark about Johnson's girlfriend, Debbie. Okay. This caused an argument between the two men, that argument was taken outside the apartment at one point and it turned violent. And it turned violent.

Starting point is 00:54:16 Yeah. And again, they are both very drunk. Yeah. So in interviews and court documents, Arnie claimed that he has no memory of what happened next. I believe that. But Debbie Wanda and several neighbors have witness testimonies, and they said the argument

Starting point is 00:54:32 continued to escalate outside the apartment. And then Arnie eventually pulled out a five-inch folding knife and stabbed Al and Bono four times in the stomach. Bono fell to the ground, and Arnie allegedly walked off into the woods. Okay. And Debbie ran in Sevac inside the apartment, and she called Nope, not an ambulance, but her father, Carl, who arrived shortly after. Okay, Debbie.

Starting point is 00:54:57 An ambulance did arrive. It's unclear who called for it. Maybe Carl, the father. Maybe, but the ambulance driver testified that he found Alan Bono lying face up in the parking lot, alive but badly injured. From four half moon shaped stab wounds below his ribcage. Why would they be half moon shaped? It must have been some kind of curved blade, I suppose.

Starting point is 00:55:17 Oh, okay. As they looked at his injuries and were trying to get him on the stretcher, the ambulance driver overheard Debbie Glatzel tell her father, oh, daddy, he didn't mean to do it. You know how he gets when he's been drinking. Oh, he like possessed. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:55:33 Yeah. Yeah. Later in an interview with police, Carl Glatzel would tell investigators, Cheyenne did it. So there was no question here that he did. Arnie did this. Chey did. Arnie did this. Cheyenne Arnie did this.

Starting point is 00:55:47 There is an ambulance driver who heard her telling her father, you know how he gets when he's drinking. Uh-huh. Just putting that out there. Now, Alan Bono was taken to Danbury hospital. Remember, he is alive at this point, but he was pronounced dead at the hospital. No, I was hoping you were going to say he's revived.

Starting point is 00:56:04 Police were given Arnie's description, and he was found only about an hour later. He was only a couple miles away. He was charged with the stabbing and now murder and taken to Bridgeport Correctional Center and held on a $125,000 bond. So to the Brookfield police, this murder was pretty straightforward. It was a drunken argument that got out of control with a very tragic outcome. Yeah, there were multiple witnesses. But only days after Arnie's arrest, Ed and Lorraine Lorin began promoting the story that

Starting point is 00:56:36 it may have appeared that Arnie killed Dalin Bono, but he had only done so because he was possessed by a demonic entity. And not just one but demonic entity, he was possessed by a demonic entity. Oh. And not just one but demonic entity. He was possessed by many demonic entities. Never, even like if he was, I just feel like it's not a good idea to insert yourself in the middle of a murder. That's the problem here is like, I don't know if this was a great idea.

Starting point is 00:56:59 Yeah, no, I do know. It's not as bad. Maybe he was possessed, like, perhaps if you feel that way you can, but even so, he murdered someone. He murdered someone. And like, you can't blame that on anyone else. Yeah, that's pretty black-white. He murdered someone.

Starting point is 00:57:14 And Ed Warren said that Arnie made a big error when he challenged those demons to leave David's body and come into his own. And I think he made a big error when he drank multiple bottles of wine and then killed someone. And then killed someone. And Lorraine told reporters, he never realized there were so many demons in the boy, 43 as we found out.

Starting point is 00:57:35 Now, but like, how do you think you're going to prove that? Don't worry, they're not. I don't even think they know how they're going to prove it. But ever since that whole thing happened, they had claimed that Arnie had been under that demonic influence that wanted to hurt the glatso family and ruin Arnie's life for challenging them. Lorraine said, we knew this case would end in tragedy, but Arnie was the last one we would have thought this would happen to. The demon used Arnie to achieve its goal. It wanted to really destroy this young man's life.

Starting point is 00:58:07 Oh my God, I'm sorry, that's so fucking distasteful. Yeah, I think it's gross. I think that's disgusting. I think it's really gross. Like you're setting there saying that a demon wanted to ruin Arnie's life when Arnie just took the life of another human being. Like that's making a mockery of that man's murder.

Starting point is 00:58:21 And what's interesting is that Lorraine added also that he was definitely, he might have been possessed at the time of the murder a few days earlier, but she and Ed didn't believe that he was still possessed just a few days later when they gave their, he was like, no, like this happens quick. Well, yeah, I mean, the demon had already ruined his life, so then he just like, had to have a step and did it to somebody else. But the considerable lengths that the Warrens and the Glatzels

Starting point is 00:58:45 claimed to have gone through to literally exercise 43 demons out of David Glatzel, that's wild that they went through all those lengths to get them out of David. But, and they just like packed up the lines.

Starting point is 00:58:57 All 43 demons just voluntarily just took off, they just dipped out right after like, yeah. I don't know. Just like Rachel Dippout. I don't know about that. Yeah, I don't know. Just like Rachel Dippout. I don't know about that. Yeah, I don't think these demons didn't dip out. Now, under normal circumstances,

Starting point is 00:59:10 investigators would have very quickly dismissed any of these claims of demonic influence. But because there was involvement of the Catholic diocese of Bridgeport in the previous minor exorcisms, the investigators kind of took a beat to think about this. I have to go. At a time when nearly one-third of Americans reported some participation in the Catholic Church, the involvement of the Church did give this claim more credibility, and people in the faith would have taken this claim in this case very seriously.

Starting point is 00:59:40 And Brookfield's police sergeant John Lucas told reporters, as a basic religious precept, it's all possible. In this case, I'm just not sure. I'm keeping an open mind. Uh-huh. So I think they were essentially trying to be like, we're not discounting it, because they didn't want to piss everyone off. Okay. Now, people went wild.

Starting point is 01:00:00 And there was a flood of inquiries coming in after the warrants made that statement about demonic possession to the press. And in response, the diocese of Bridgeport confirmed that they had received a request for help from the glatso family and had assigned Reverend Francis Virgilac of Stamford to investigate for possible diabolical possession of the boy. According to the diocese, that reverend had not yet returned a report on the investigation of the glatsoal family. And he had been sent on assignment out of country shortly before this whole thing,

Starting point is 01:00:37 so we couldn't even be reached for comment. This was the only statement the diocese of Bridgeport would make on this case. And they said a formal exorcism had never been approved, and it had never happened. And then they were very silent on the matter. They would not talk about it again. Huh! They were like, nope, probably a good choice.

Starting point is 01:00:55 Now while Arnie Johnson sat in Bridgeport Correctional Center awaiting his trial, the Warrens kept this story going. Within a week of the murder, they had appeared on a number of television shows, radio shows, claiming Arnie's case would be the first in American legal history in which an accused murderer will argue that he was possessed. Wow. Arnie's court appointed lawyer George Tim refused to comment on these claims, but it didn't really matter because he was soon kicked out of there and was replaced by Martin Manella, who was a young private attorney who was very excited to work on this case

Starting point is 01:01:31 and did it pro bono. Oh, shit. Yeah. So, on March 19th, a grand jury weighed the evidence in witness testimony and returned an indictment after only 25 minutes of deliberation. By now, he was being represented by Martin Manella, who seemed to really be into this media tension. And following his indictment, Manella announced that he was intending he was going to intend to argue Arnie's actions were the result of demonic possession.

Starting point is 01:02:00 He was ready to go forward with this. According to Manella, the defense would require, quote, psychic experts from all over the country and from England, which could be very costly, so a defense fund has been set up to cover the costs associated with this strategy. What about a fucking fund to help? Oh, my God, I'm just like...

Starting point is 01:02:19 I'm just like... The victim's family, exactly. Now, obviously Martin Manela's defense plan immediately attracted a lot of attention from the press all over the country. Why? They all just wanted to see how this was going to play out in a real court of law and a trial for murder, remember. And of course, everyone wondered whether the diocese who were still committed to being

Starting point is 01:02:40 silent on this matter would actually be called to testify or would have to offer any proof of their participation in the supposed minor exorcisms of David. Right. Manela really played into it, telling reporters, I hope the priests will have enough moral conscience to come forward. A choice. Okay, glasshouse. A choice.

Starting point is 01:03:04 Okay, glasshouse. A choice. Okay, glass house. Morals, you say. In a New York Times article, he was quoted as saying, the courts have dealt with the existence of God. Now they're going to have to deal with the existence of the devil. I literally must have. This is real.

Starting point is 01:03:17 That is the thing that is absolutely mind-boggling. Yep. Now, like Martin, Ed and Lorraine Warren were also very frustrated with the Catholic diocese refusal to confirm or validate any of their claims, Ed said the Church is acting like they've committed a crime. And then he said he feared the diocese would, quote, scatter the priests involved to the four wins to avoid having them testify. This is all very theatrical. Very intense.

Starting point is 01:03:45 Oh, so theatrical. The most. Meanwhile, a ton of clergy members were speaking against the case, like actively. Good. Pointing out that supposed cases of demonic possession are many times the result of mental illness, requiring an actual doctor and not a priest. I have to say I'm kind of surprised. Right?

Starting point is 01:04:03 They were impressed. Yeah. And impressed, exactly. Yeah, according to the New York Times article referenced above, at the time of this case, a Gallup poll showed 34% of adults believe that the devil is a personal being who directs evil forces and influences people to do wrong. 34%.

Starting point is 01:04:20 So this was a time when this defense and this kind of panic would have really been a thing. It would have really like gotten everybody up in arms. Do you hear me blinking? Yeah, blink, blink. So by the end of March, the case had made headlines everywhere, but not because of the murder. Exactly. And because of the horrific murder.

Starting point is 01:04:42 And the tragic loss. It was about, it was gaining attention more because of the warrants in Martin Manella. And important to note, as a point for the skeptics out there, because we're trying to tell both sides here. Yeah. During the five weeks of David's ordeal, his diabolical possessions seem to manifest

Starting point is 01:04:59 as it was being told by people in ways that were very similar to those of one Reagan McNeil from a film, the Exorcist. Okay. Interestingly, the family had allegedly watched the film pretty shortly before any of this had happened. When you said they saw him levitating on his bed, I was like, oh, yeah. Did they? Also, the glatzels said they were put in contact with the Warns by that unnamed priest at their church who was never named, but Debbie Glatzel had attended at least one of the warrants lectures before they were involved in this family's case. So she was definitely aware of them.

Starting point is 01:05:32 Blink blink. All of this is not to say that this is a hoax, fraud, anything else. No, you're just telling both sides. It's just putting more facts into this case just so you can see the full picture here. Again, doesn't mean anything, just interesting. The church and investigators were staying pretty silent, but the Warrens and Manella were sharing their story with as many TV cameras as they could get in front of.

Starting point is 01:05:57 The Warrens spoke of their close working relationship with the Catholic church, told reporters there's a great deal of respect between us and them, but the church would not confirm or deny this. And actually, they said, I don't know her. They said, I don't know about that. Also, while the diocese refused to discuss the matter with reporters,

Starting point is 01:06:16 they were willing to tell the press, quote, no formal exorcism was ever asked for or performed. That's interesting. Yes. ever asked for or performed. That's interesting. Yikes. Not asked for? Yikes. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill?

Starting point is 01:06:41 Or are they made to kill? I'm Candice DeLong, and on my podcast, Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music. I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler. On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings, Raking Down Lori Vallow, aka Mommy Doomstays Motives, and what drove

Starting point is 01:07:17 Caitlin Armstrong to murder. I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey, Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psychie Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. So in June 1981, George Cresky, a mentalist who performed under the name the Amazing Crescan, he accused the Warrens of praying on a superstitious public, and he said this is all to promote themselves and increase revenues for their lectures. And he said, quote, they have an excellent vaudeville act.

Starting point is 01:08:01 It's just that this case more involves clinical psychologists than it does them. I love Vodville. That's hilarious. The Warren's peers within the paranormal research community also were very critical of their behavior. Really? A paranormal researcher named Robert Pyle said the Warren's haven't contributed one bit to the settling of pandemonium in this case. In fact, they may have even caused some of it. I mean, that I agree with. I'll say that. And as for Manila, the manila, the lawyer, his peers in the legal community were slamming him about this. A lawyer from Connecticut told the Hartford current, Marty Manila, Manila is handling this case for Marty Manila. Yeah, sounds like it. I also saw some pictures that are truly questionable.

Starting point is 01:08:43 David Gallowb, a lawyer in Stanford, Connecticut, also agreed with this. He told reporters, this case is not being treated seriously by the legal community. Lawyers know that it's extremely unlikely that a Connecticut jury will accept a demon possession defense.

Starting point is 01:08:58 Manella only seemed to gain steam from his haters. He said, I took this case because I believe in it. They told Columbus that the world was flat, but that didn't stop him. Oh, get better heroes. Wow, my gosh. Get better heroes. It's like when Gilmore girls, when I think it's Rory, when they're doing a student, they have to come up with a royal thing, a kingdom, a school, like a dynasty. And I think at one point, Rory is like, well, King Henry VIII did this, like separated from the church, you know, like made his own church.

Starting point is 01:09:30 And I think Paris is like, yeah, he also beheaded two of his wives. How much of a role model do you want me to make this guy? Yeah, exactly. And really how he feel about that statement. I love it. But the Brookfield Police Department was also receiving dozens of letters and correspondence, mostly from concerned citizens of Brookfields who were angry that Manella and the Warrens had used this case to cause so much chaos in their community. Yeah, I'd be pissed. They had never had

Starting point is 01:09:55 a murder before. Wow. Brookfield, this was the first, so it was like this was a sleepy town. It wasn't like this was, and it was causing a lot of disruption. Now, in the end, all of this was really for not, because on October 28th, the first day of Arnie's trial, Superior Court Judge Robert Callahan refused to allow a defense of demonic possession. I'm so glad to hear that. He said evidence of demonic possession is simply not relevant.

Starting point is 01:10:20 And he said his decision came after Manella announced his intent to call several priests and other experts to stand and prove that quote, there is such thing as demonic possession and it does in fact exists. That isn't what is on trial here. Right. And Callahan says he based his decision on the fact that no that such a defense could not be reliable and could actually mislead the jury. It's so opinion-based. He said it would be incompetent evidence and I would not allow it. Good for him.

Starting point is 01:10:48 It is. It's all the opinion-based, that's the thing. And it can't be proved. Right. Like there's no tangible thing to prove it. Now apparently, Manello, which I'm shocked that he's shocked, he was shocked by the judge's decisions to disallow the demon defense, which I'm like, were you really shocked by that, my guy? And after asking for a recess to

Starting point is 01:11:05 now come up with a new defense strategy, he went right back to it anyway. He actually decided to go against the judge and it smear his reputation. He told reporters outside the court, court, he may have to disqualify himself. And then he accused the judge of prejudice and anti-catholic bias. I don't think that's going to help you win the case here, dude. Like, what? Also, I love it. Luckily, the judge, Callahan, was not rocked at all by that obviously not. Obviously. He stood by his decision to bar the demonic possession thing, and he also added that even if Manella could prove demonic possession, which you can't, he said it would not affect the intent of the crime. And he said any testimony relating to possession

Starting point is 01:11:47 would only be rooted in subjective religious beliefs, not scientific fact. Yeah. And there's also no law that says like we can acquit you if you were possessed at the time of murder. Yeah. Where is the separation between search, church, and state here? You can't do that. Uh-huh. I feel like there isn't one. After all of this was done, the case went on pretty normally, because an house just of murder trial. Yeah, the way exactly what it should be. The prosecutor Walter Flanagan presented his case as he always had planned to do, which was Arnie Johnson in a drunken rage, stabbed Al and Bono in the stomach four times after Bono allegedly made a derogatory remark about his girlfriend. The evidence offered in support of this claim was the five-inch folding knife found at the

Starting point is 01:12:28 scene that belonged to him. He was also known to use it at work like it was his. Yeah. It was now covered in blood and hair matching Bono's blood type. Well, that's incredible. Credible witnesses were called by the prosecution. This included the state's chief toxicologist who testified that Bono, him said the victim had a heavy concentration of alcohol in the blood sample taken at the time of his death.

Starting point is 01:12:50 A server was also called the testify from the Mug and Munch Cafe. And they said both Arnie and Alan had been served a large number of drinks on the afternoon of the murder, but forensic experts admitted that while Arnie was almost certainly drunk at the time of the murder, they were like, absolutely. It was bono who had consumed a lot more of the wine at the cafe. He was more drunk.

Starting point is 01:13:13 Now, other witnesses included Debbie Glatzel and Arnie's sister Wanda, who gave their pretty straightforward accounts of the day's events. There was also some people who reported that Arnie did have previously drunk and aggressive behavior that they had witnessed. Well, Debbie said to her father allegedly.

Starting point is 01:13:30 Exactly. That was true. Now, unable to use that airtight, demonic possession defense, Manela just said that it was self-defense, which is a pretty normal defense to mount, I would say. I'm actually surprised he didn't go after the restaurant for like over he honestly, that would have even made more sense than demonic fucking possession. But I think honestly the restaurant was like Alan drink more actually, so I'm sorry when I think of it anyway. But he claimed a drunken Alan Bono instigated a violent confrontation with Arnie, and Arnie killed Bono in defense of himself and his

Starting point is 01:14:01 family. There were claims made that Alan Bono had attempted to grab the youngest Mary, who was nine at the time, like, held her, like she let her go. I don't know why, like, just during the confrontation had grabbed her and wouldn't let her go. And this, that's alleged. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:14:19 But they were claiming this was also what set Arneo. Like an aggravating factor. Which would be an aggravating factor. That's his nine-year-old niece. Absolutely. Or sister. Cousin, but sorry. But obviously, we only have the accounts

Starting point is 01:14:32 of whoever survived here. Right. Go off of. Nevertheless, Manella still found a way to put in some demonic stuff. Fomo, like a little bit by calling several local priests as character witnesses. But when he called them the judge, Judge Callahan said, you better tread very lightly with your questioning.

Starting point is 01:14:51 Like, he was like, don't even test me, dude. He's also like, I'll just fucking throw the jury out. Yeah, so they don't hear it out. But before sending the jury out for deliberation, Judge Callahan did say to them, they should only consider the evidence presented in court and ignore anything They may have known about the much publicized demon possession defense Because it had been promoted so heavily before this trial

Starting point is 01:15:15 Well, and it sounds like even in the media too exactly now despite the warnings There was really no way that this jury wasn't gonna be able to think about that I was gonna to say that. It was months of like sensational coverage by the Warrens, by Manella. And just 50 minutes after going for deliberation, they sent word to the judge that they were hopelessly deadlocked. I had a feeling you were going to say that. And in response, Calhan told the jury, he said, I would like you to remember the Chip's

Starting point is 01:15:43 Smith charge, which is a Connecticut case in which a deadlocked jury managed to reach a conviction when the jurors and the minority chose to, quote, respect the intelligence of those in the majority and consider their views carefully. The jury agreed and they went back to deliberate more and on 16 hours later, they found Arnie Johnson guilty of manslaughter. Not murder, because it didn't seem like it was planned, it seemed like it was in the heat of the moment,

Starting point is 01:16:11 it truly did seem like that. And according to several jury members, their decision on the manslaughter charge was really due to their belief that Arnie had possibly only intended to injure Alan and not actually kill him. Okay. When you look at it, it's a messy situation. Arnie had possibly only intended to injure Alan and not actually kill him. Which when you look at it, it's a messy situation.

Starting point is 01:16:28 Who knows if that was the intent? It certainly didn't seem like it was planned out. No. It was certainly in a... Surve the moment. Angry violent confrontation that this happened, which doesn't excuse any of it, but it's a different situation than straight up first-degree murder. Arnie came back to court on December 18, 1981 for sentencing,

Starting point is 01:16:47 and Judge Callahan imposed the maximum sentence allowed under Connecticut state law, which was 10 to 20 years in prison. Oh, wow. Yeah, he said, it was Arnie's lack of apparent remorse as his reasoning for imposing the maximum sentence. Oh, he didn't seem sorry. He said, I do not assume the powers of God, but you took a human life and you showed no acknowledgement of guilt and little remorse. And as this was said, Debbie Glatzel shouted,

Starting point is 01:17:12 that's sick and then stormed out of the courtroom. Yeah, that is sick. It's also, it's also sick to stab a man four times in the stomach and leave him to die. And it's also sick to call your dad instead of an ambulance fourforced-ed guy. Yeah. But okay, Debbie.

Starting point is 01:17:28 Manella apparently, he filed an appeal, of course, on the sentence. But in March 1982, the appeal was withdrawn at Arnie's request. Oh. Arnie's defense team released a statement saying Arnie didn't want to appeal, and he consulted with his family and made the decision. Okay.

Starting point is 01:17:46 So I'll give a little bit of... I was going to say. Now no longer confined by the restrictions of the Connecticut Superior Court, the story of Arnie Johnson's supposed demonic possession definitely grew into a legend now. In 1983, friends of the Warrens Gerald Brittle published The Devil in Connecticut, which was a allegedly non-fictional account of the Johnson case.

Starting point is 01:18:14 The book is interesting. Her face says something. That same year, The Devil in Connecticut was adapted into the Demon Murder case, which was a made for TV movie, which stars Clowis Leachman, Kevin Bacon, and Andy Griffith. Oh, shit. So that happened.

Starting point is 01:18:30 Arnie Johnson begins serving his sentence in December 1981 at the Connecticut Correctional Institution in Summers, Connecticut. In January 1985, Arnie married longtime girlfriend Debbie Glatsel in a ceremony at the Correctional institute. Beautiful. Just two months later Arnie was granted early release after serving only five years. Five fucking years. In January eight 1986. The parole board cited that he was a model prisoner, and that was the reason for his decision. In 2007, Carl Glatzel, Jr., the third glatzel child, and David Glatzel, who was the subject of the demonic possession, they filed a civil suit against Gerald Brittle and I universe

Starting point is 01:19:16 publishing in an attempt to stop them from republishing the devil in Connecticut. Wow. Which the author admits in court documents is a quote, fictionalized account of David and Carl Glatzel's past lives. But it was being marketed as nonfiction. Among other things, I guess the suit says that Brittle's book included considerable

Starting point is 01:19:36 false and defamatory subject matter and unreasonably and seriously interfered with the plaintiffs' interest and not having their private affairs known to others. Yeah. Now, according to Carl, in the years following the trial, both he and David were, like, they had a lot of difficulty in school.

Starting point is 01:19:54 I would think so. They were like mocked, shunned, and later, they had difficulty getting jobs because of all the notoriety that had come from this whole thing. That's fucked up. And it had also exasperated, exacerbated, excuse me, David's mental health issues.

Starting point is 01:20:06 Of course. And he was continuing to struggle because in the press, it didn't give a shit. So it's like, I feel for them, that sucks. And the civil suit also really deep in the rift between Carl and David and the rest of the family. Because David and Arnie maintain that the story from the warns is entirely true.

Starting point is 01:20:25 So there's two very different versions of this. Wait, so David and Arnie said that it was, they maintained that it was true. No, David and, I might have said David, I'm sorry, I'm a Debbie and Arnie. Oh, Debbie and Arnie open. So David and Carl are saying this is being highly exaggerated. There are real issues here that we would like to not continuously have to deal with. Yeah, we'd like them to remain private. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:20:52 And David and Arnie are saying, because obviously the details are already out and there's been several things about it. But they would just, I would like it to not be that my brother was possessed by a demon. Yeah. But we do not know what the hell was going on. But then, can we not all just agree that that's what happened? But then Debbie and Arnie are. But Debbie and Arnie are saying that is absolutely what happened in the warrants are telling

Starting point is 01:21:14 the truth. So Lorraine Warren also was very dismissive of Carl and David's civil suit. She said it was ridiculous. And she said the book was based on statements made by the children's parents. And she also cited the involvement of six unnamed priests as evidence of the books legitimacy. I think six unnamed priests should be a ban name. I think that's a cool ban. I like that.

Starting point is 01:21:40 Also, it's like, I love that she's sitting there being like, yeah, well, your parents made statements to this guy. And David's like, yeah, motherfucker, I'm the one that was supposedly possessed. Yeah. Can you please listen to me? Yeah. Unfortunately, in the end, the court ruled in favor of brittle. Really?

Starting point is 01:21:55 And dismissed the case. They said, first, the subject matter, the book, the devil, and Connecticut concerns the supernatural and demonic possession. Such matters cannot be proven objectionally true to her false, and thus are matters of opinion, which unfortunately is true. Second, an inquiry into the allegations would entail an excessive entanglement

Starting point is 01:22:13 into religious and theological questions in violation of the establishment clause of the First Amendment of the United States Constitution. But could they not prove that it was defamatory? I guess not. It's like that I feel for them. I do too. Because like, that's really shitty.

Starting point is 01:22:29 That is their life. Do you know what ever ended up happening to David? I do not actually. I hope he's okay. I hope I didn't look too far into it because I'm hoping he's living a very normal private life. Or was able to live a normal and private life. You know, yeah, just hoping that they at least could.

Starting point is 01:22:48 Yeah, well, you know what, separate from it. It makes sense that you didn't look into it because it seems like he wanted to go and live and live privately. That's the thing, it felt like, yeah. It feels like whatever he's doing now, I hope he's doing great. Me too.

Starting point is 01:23:00 And Carl, and Carl Jr. And Carl Jr. And everybody else. And Arnie is out. I think Debbie passed away I'm Carl Jr. I'm Carl Jr. I hope that everybody else is. I hope that everybody else is. Wow, and Arnie is out. I think Debbie passed away before the conjuring movie came out. So I know she isn't no longer alive. Arnie, I believe, is.

Starting point is 01:23:15 And I think he got a job. Yeah, I mean, hopefully he won a better life. He's a better life. Hopefully, he still feels sorry that he murdered someone. Yeah. It's a really sad all around case. It's sad. It's strange.

Starting point is 01:23:27 It's confusing. And I don't think a job telling it though, I was never confused. I don't think Ed and Lorraine Warren helped this case at all. I know. They caused a big mess. And I don't like it. No. It gives me gross feelings.

Starting point is 01:23:42 I don't like it. It gives a yucca taste in the mouth. Yeah. And I think a lot of people in the paranormal community don't like their involvement in this either. So, it's kind of like a on them, a big, a big yucca. Yeah, but wow. Yeah, so that is the conjuring case that devil made me do a case. Interesting case. It is a sad one. Because the other thing is too, when you look into Alan Bono, there's not a lot about him. You can't find a lot about his life. So that's like a sad part of it too. We kind of got lost in the

Starting point is 01:24:14 fray. And it sounds like he was really young when he died. Yeah, he was only in his 40s. Yeah, that's so sad. And he was just, you know, managing a kennel, managing an apartment complex, his sister owned, he seemed like a friendly guy. Yeah. I don't know about the reports of him grabbing the nine-year-old. I don't know what that's all about. Again, very alleged.

Starting point is 01:24:32 We don't have any proof of it, but, you know, that's why you don't, everybody don't drink that much. Don't drag that much. Bad things happen when people drink that much. And if it doesn't happen outwardly, it's happening inwardly. Exactly. That's the effect in my eye. It's so bad for you. Holy shit, I know.

Starting point is 01:24:47 I still can't believe that amount of wine. Yeah, that's what shocked me a lot. Damn, I have like two glasses and I'm like, woo! I have one glass of wine and I will be sick. Yeah, like I can't. Oh my God. But yeah, wow, well, that was a good one.

Starting point is 01:25:02 And as always, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. Bye. Oh, but not too weird, but any of that. Bye. Yeah, no. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple

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Morbid - Episode 465: The Devil Made Me Do It

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