Morbid - Episode 466: The Murder of Dawn Hacheney

Episode Date: June 8, 2023

On the morning of December 26, 1997, police and fire services responded to a call about a structure fire at the home Bremerton, WA home of Nick and Dawn Hacheney. When they were finally able ...to extinguish the flames and search the home, they discovered the badly burned body of twenty-eight-year-old Dawn Hachney in her bed, where her husband had left her several hours earlier. After a brief investigation, Dawn’s death was determined to be the result of an accidental fire—a tragic end to a short life, nothing more.The case, which most had considered closed years earlier, was revived in April of 2001, when a woman went to Bremerton Police with a startling statement. She claimed to have been having an affair with Dawn’s husband Nick, at the time of Dawn’s death and that, at some point during their affair, he’d confessed to drugging his wife and setting the house on fire to cover up the murder. Investigators took the woman’s claims very seriously; however, Nick Hacheney was a former minister, which added to people's perception of the case. Thank you to the gorgeous, vibrant and talented David White for Research assistanceReferences: Associated Press. 2002. "Former minister on trial in wife's death." The News Tribune, November 11: 16.Baker, Travis. 2003. "Angry words erupt at Hacheney Sentencing." Kitsap Sun, February 8: 1.—. 2002. "Defense presses woman who pointed finger." Kitsap Sun, November 27: 4.—. 2001. "Ex-minister might face life in prison without parole." Kitsap Sun, October 4: 1.—. 2001. "Ex-minister pleads innocent in wife's death." Kitsap Sun, September 18: 1.—. 2002. "Former minister guilty of murdering wife." Kitsap Sun, December 27: 1.—. 2001. "Hacheney denied reduced bail." Kitsap Sun, October 27: 4.—. 2002. "Judge: Jury will hear of alleged wife killer's affairs." Kitsap Sun, February 28: 10.—. 2002. "Pathologist testifies about changing autopsy results." Kitsap Sun, November 13: 3.—. 2002. "Sexual affairs not relevant, attorney argues." Kitsap Sun, February 9: 5.—. 2002. "Trial begins for ex-minister accused of killing wife." Kitsap Sun, November 4: 1.Kitsap Sun. 1997. "Dawn Hacheney Obituary." Kitsap Sun, December 30: 5.McCormick, Julie. 2001. "Former minister suspect in wife's death." Kitsap Sun, September 14: 1.Olsen, Gregg. 2010. A Twisted Faith: A Minister's Obsession and the Murder that Destroyed a Church. New York, NY: St. Martin's Press.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, Prime members, you can listen to morbid, early, and add free on Amazon music. Download the app today. You're listening to a morbid network podcast. Audible lets you enjoy all your favorite audio entertainment in one app. You'll always find the best of what you love or something new to discover. Audible offers an incredible selection of audiobooks across every genre, from best sellers and new releases to celebrity memoirs, mysteries, thrillers, motivation, wellness, business,
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Starting point is 00:00:57 car, I feel like my girlies are there with me. New members can try Audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash morbid or text morbid to 500-500. That's audible.com slash morbid or text morbid to 500-500 to try Audible free for 30 days. Audible.com slash morbid. Reboot your credit card with Apple card. The credit card created by Apple. It gives you unlimited daily cashback that you can now choose to grow in a high-yield savings account at 4.15% annual percentage yield. That's more than 10 times higher
Starting point is 00:01:31 than the national average savings rate. Apply for your Apple card now in the wallet app on iPhone and start growing your daily cash with savings today. Apple card subject to credit approval. Savings is available to Apple card owners, subject to eligibility requirements. Savings is available to Apple Card owners, subject to eligibility requirements. Savings accounts provided by Goldman Sachs Bank USA. Remember FDIC, National Average Savings Rate is from FDIC website. Terms apply. Hey, Weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Alena. And this is Moulbert Baby. This moment, I made it like, this moment baby. This moment baby. Yeah, like Tiana. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:02:28 You just sounded actually just like Tiana. Did I? She's my girl. We're a princess. Oh my God, I'm like my favorite princess. Oh my God. She's also the sweetest one that we met in, what's that place in the world?
Starting point is 00:02:40 Disney World. You can say, my body rejects it. But we met her and she was so sweet and she called everybody sugar. I didn't get to meet her because I wasn't with you guys at that point. I think John was like star struck with Tiana. I mean, I would be star struck like Tiana.
Starting point is 00:02:56 We can be straight up, we're like, that's Tiana. Is that Tiana? She's right there. Oh my God, it's Tiana. I mean, she's a great Disney, but she is. She's underrated as fuck. I mean, she's a great Disney. She is. She's underrated as fuck. I feel like she might be humble opinion. She won't be soon because Disney got rid of Splash Mountain.
Starting point is 00:03:12 And they're doing like a whole princess and the frog themed ride. It's about fucking time. When did that movie come out? I know. You know, it's about time. I didn't realize how, how long that movie had come out. Cause at that point, I had like, I wasn't watching Disney movies religiously anymore. Yeah. I mean, now it's like, I don't know how long that movie had come out because at that point I had, like I wasn't watching Disney movies religiously anymore.
Starting point is 00:03:27 I mean now it's like I don't find her really much, but now you are though. Now am I talking about Disney? It came out in 2009. I thought it was. It's about time, guys. It's about time you give Tiana her due. And Prince Naveen underrated Prince in my opinion.
Starting point is 00:03:43 Did it just get hot in here? Yeah, it did and it was Prince Naveen. He's a really hot fictional character, okay? Prince in my opinion. Did it just get hot in here? Yeah, it did, and it was Prince Navine. He's a really hot fictional character, okay? Oh yeah, I do. I don't know how I feel about making that statement allowed, but here I am. My girls love Prince Navine. I know, he's their guy.
Starting point is 00:03:54 He is. Yeah, I think he's probably like, out of all the princes, I would say he's the hottest. I'm telling you, it literally underrated criminally in all facets. Is that movie, those characters, the songs, the soundtrack, the slaps? Never did I ever think that we would have
Starting point is 00:04:10 this conversation on this podcast. No, I did not. It was a really... I don't know how we got here, but I'm glad we did. I said, it's small, but bye-bye. Oh yeah, it was very, and then you did like Tiana Arms and everything. Yeah, that was crazy.
Starting point is 00:04:21 It's really uplifting right now. It is, we need it. We know. Yeah, I was crazy. It's really uplifting right now. It is, we need it. We know. Yeah, we sure do. What the world needs now is anything to save my life. Please, please. I just start crying. Please, please.
Starting point is 00:04:39 Everybody's like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Nothing, we just cry. Nothing, okay. Also, I'd like to clarify, I feel like a lot of people thought that Drew and I broke up and that's like, not what we're talking about right now. We are alive and thriving, okay?
Starting point is 00:04:50 Oh, hell yeah. I just wanted to put that out there because we just sounded very stressed and I didn't want people to start speculating further. No, everything's honestly, it's just one of those weeks. I think Mercury just came out of retrograde and we're in a shadow period. Yeah, we were feeling a weird way.
Starting point is 00:05:05 We turned the room around. Yeah. We changed positions and now we're feeling much better. We're kind of like at a chat set now. It's pretty good. That's pretty good. You know why we were feeling that way? Like the way that we were.
Starting point is 00:05:16 Not only Mercury was in retrograde and now it's in a shadow period. I don't know if the moon is still in cancer, but as of yesterday it was. And that gets you in your ma-fucking feels. But then we're entering Gemini season. The best season. And so everybody's feeling like a,
Starting point is 00:05:33 the best season. Too bad of all, we could do this all day. So everybody's feeling like a bitch, see? I just proved that. And so did I, I was like, let's go. Everyone's feeling like a bitch. I feel like, let's go. Everyone's feeling like a bitch. Like, true. I feel like I know.
Starting point is 00:05:48 Correct. So you know what? Be your best bitch self and I hope everybody watched the Vanderpump Rules reunion. Oh, fuck. How did we not open up with that? I know. I need you guys. I don't know what to say about this.
Starting point is 00:06:03 I'm gonna go to a timeout. It was when James said, I mean guys, I don't know what to say about it. I'm gonna go to a timeout. It was when James said, nah, it's not hitting for me. It's not hitting for me. And Lala said, I didn't even listen. It's saying, it's saying to me. James and Lala's friendship forever. Oh, all day, everyday.
Starting point is 00:06:20 Ever. I'm very excited about episode two and three. And I hope that you guys are too. Yeah, just one more quick thing Lala on her podcast, which everybody should go listen to it's called them Lala fucking love it She said that she texted her producer about the first part of the reunion and was like holy shit like this was incredible It like yay. I love it and the producer was like, oh you think this is good. It doesn't even stand up next to part two and three. Don't even tell me that I already did. I already did.
Starting point is 00:06:50 I think I told you twice because I'm pretty sure I told you because I'm gonna wish time away. I mean, me too. There we are. There we are. But yeah, so we, we Tiana, we Disneyed, which was crazy. We Vanderpumped. And now we're gonna morbid.
Starting point is 00:07:05 And we zodiac to. Oh, we did, we covered all the astrology. We covered all the astrology. Well, you know, we zodiac to antistrology. So now we're gonna morbid. Yeah, we're six minutes in, I think, so perfect. We're good. I like it.
Starting point is 00:07:15 Here we are. I'm gonna bring you down because this is a really, really sad case, a really tragic case, a really gnarly case. Oh, good. And I feel like this case, it makes the most sense to start in the middle, which I used to do a lot, and I haven't done that in a while.
Starting point is 00:07:30 Oh, I love that. I'm excited to go. Must start in the middle, we're going to work our way back to sort of the beginning, and then obviously, we will cover the downfall of the monster of the case at the end. But I'm not going to give it away, who it is just yet. Don't worry.
Starting point is 00:07:44 Don't give it away. I won't. Don't you fucking dare. He said I fucking wouldn't. All right, I'll trust you. That's good. We should always trust each other. Always trust me. Always. I don't really know what happened there. Anyways. So bring it down. So everything happened just one day after Christmas. Oh, yeah. That's upsetting. Yep. And it was December 26th, obviously, the year was 1997. And police and fire were called to the home of Nick and Don Hackney in Bremerton, Washington. So when they got to this house, it was absolutely engulfed in flames. Oh, but as far as the investigators knew, the house was empty, that unfortunately changed when they were able to make their way inside,
Starting point is 00:08:27 and they were immediately hit with the smell of burnt flesh. Oh, no! Yes. And somebody thought, you know, maybe it was like one of the dogs that got stuck inside, but as the firefighter searched through the first floor of the home, they weren't finding the source. And then when they reached the Hackney's bedroom, they unfortunately did. And they found 28-year-old Don Hackney,
Starting point is 00:08:49 badly, badly burned, like, beyond recognition. 28-years-old, just laying in her bed, hurt laying in her and her husband's bed. And her husband, Nick, had left early that morning for a hunting trip with his friends. So obviously he was okay, and this was what he was gonna come home to. So the fire had started well after Nick went out for the day, and the Hackney's neighbors, Tim and Amy Pits, they were the ones to call the fire in. And how they noticed it was Tim's
Starting point is 00:09:16 co-worker, Jeff Richardson was his name. That guy usually picked Tim up for work in the morning. So he was the first one to see the fire, and he called it in, or he didn't call in in. He started banging on the pit's door to wake them up and like screaming like call 911. Okay. So Amy, the wife called 911, and Tim and Jeff ran over to the Hacnees home to see if they could help anyone who was still inside.
Starting point is 00:09:38 Ugh. Now Jeff was able to kick the door open, but by that point, the fire had already spread to the first floor, and the room was filled with not only flames, but like super thick black smoke. It was obviously beyond dangerous, but Jeff tried to make his way into the living room, just wanting to help anybody that was inside.
Starting point is 00:09:59 Yeah. I kept trying, kept trying, but the flames and the smoke kept pushing him back. It was obvious he wasn't gonna be able to get inside without getting physically hurt himself. So at that point, there was literally nothing they could do except wait for first responders to get there. So they just stood on the lawn and watched the house burn. Oh, that's awful. I can't imagine.
Starting point is 00:10:20 Like, you see that in a movie and you're like, oh my god, like, I can't imagine. Oh, that's awful. So Nick Hackney pulled up to his house, this chaotic, what was left of his house, this chaotic scene, a little after 10 in the morning. And he was met at the steps of the home by Chief Deputy Coroner Jane Jeremy. I believe that he say it. And a coroner walking up to you? Yes.
Starting point is 00:10:42 So she steered Nick away from the house luckily and back towards her truck and she explained what had happened. And he was like, oh my god, Donna and I spent Christmas together with our family earlier, like yesterday, but she wasn't feeling very well. She had a gnarly head cold so she took Benadryl to go to sleep. And he said that he had woken up around 2 a.m. or excuse me, she had woken up around 2am to take another dose. And she wondered out loud whether she had no tolerance for it because she didn't take that medicine very often. So she said, oh my god, like, I'm kind of feeling this. So that's, that was his explanation to the coroner of the day before. How, and how she would sleep
Starting point is 00:11:19 through. And how she would sleep through it. So it made sense to the coroner. Yeah. Because the position of Don's body on the bed suggested she hadn't even tried to get up to escape the fire. Oh wow. Which at first was baffling to investigators. They were like, yeah, nobody would just sleep through a roaring fire like that.
Starting point is 00:11:36 But if Don wasn't used to taking Benadryl, it was possible that it had a strong effect on her and it kept her sleeping entirely while the fire occurred. That's some strong benedrill. Oh, it is. Yeah. So as far as anybody could tell, Nick Hackney was completely devastated and he started leaning closely
Starting point is 00:11:56 on the members of his and Don's church while he grieved. He and Don had been married about seven years at that point and they'd been together even longer from when they were dating. So this was going to be a process for him to get over. Yeah. But before we get into that whole process, and what it looks like,
Starting point is 00:12:10 I wanna tell you more about Don, more about Nick, and more about their life that they had made together. Okay. So Don Marie was born December 5th, 1969, in Seattle, Washington, to parents, Donald and Diana. Donald worked in a shipyard, which I think is really fucking cool. That is cool. And Diana was a homemaker. And Don was their first child, and she would eventually be the oldest of four kids and their only daughter.
Starting point is 00:12:35 She had her brothers, excuse me, she and her brothers Dennis, Darren and Derek. They were all raised in Bremerton, Washington. So she had lived their her entire life. Now, their childhood was not always the easiest. Dawn's mom Diana struggled a lot with anxiety and from the sounds of it, probably depression too. She was really going through it. And she, by her own admission, quote, required more love than she could get from her husband, Donald.
Starting point is 00:13:02 Oh. So I think it was one of those things where they were very religious people. So I think it was one of those things where they were very, like they were religious people. So I think they stayed together even though they weren't necessarily the happiest together. Yeah, that makes sense. And for that reason, Diana would sometimes
Starting point is 00:13:17 look outside of her own marriage for love and affection or to put it less lightly, she was stepping out on Donald. Uh-oh. So in 1980, when Don was 11, Diana actually left the family and moved in with a man that she was having an affair with. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna stay over here quiet. Yeah, me too.
Starting point is 00:13:36 Now, it also turned out that she was pregnant and this man was the father. Oh. Yep. So she had her son Darren with him, but eventually things fell apart with whoever that guy was. And she ended up returning home to the family with her new son. And they all just kind of made it work together. Wow. So obviously things were tense. Yeah. I mean, you just left your whole family. And then you just come back with a baby. I'm like, oops, sorry. I'm back.
Starting point is 00:14:04 Here's your brother. So things were tense when she came home. Yeah. The kids could feel the tension in the air. So in response to all the tension at home, Dawn really leaned into making her mom happy. And she became just determined to achieve, achieve, achieve. I don't want to call her an overachiever
Starting point is 00:14:21 because I feel like that's like a weird label. Like you're an overachiever. It makes it sound like like a weird label. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know.
Starting point is 00:14:31 I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know.
Starting point is 00:14:39 I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I overachiever. I would really just say that she decided to be the light that she thought her mom needed. And it worked really hard at it. I like that.
Starting point is 00:14:47 So in grade school, what she did to do this, she became a champion speller, which eventually led her to participating in this script's national spelling bee, which would later lead to a visit to the White House. Which got to meet then president Ronald Reagan. Wow. I know.
Starting point is 00:15:03 No. Wow. Wow. I know. No. Wow. Wow. I mean, spelling. Yeah, spelling, right? Exactly. Now, so all throughout her school year, she kept that same tenacity, worked super hard at everything she did.
Starting point is 00:15:14 And it would actually lead her to becoming Bramerton Christian Schools' valedictorian in 1988. Get it, girl. Now, after high school, Don and rolled at Northwest College of the assemblies of God, which is informally known as Northwest Bible College. Damn. Like even the people there call it that. That's a mouthful. It is. I think that's why they shortened it to Northwest Bible College. It's just the Bible. The Bible. And it was at college, the Bible college, where she met Nick Hackney. Just like Don, he was also born and raised in Washington.
Starting point is 00:15:45 He was just raised about like a half an hour from Brummerton in the coastal city of Palsbo. I think is how you say it. I did have it. I looked it up, so. Yeah, I looked it up. I looked it up still. I just like trialled off there.
Starting point is 00:15:59 That's it. Now, so he grew up there. And while Don's family had their issues, it seems like they were able to keep the home life somewhat stable at that Don's house. Okay. That wasn't necessarily the case for Nick's family. The author of Twisted Faith, which is a really good source on this book, and actually I was looking at another book and then I saw that book advertised and that's how I found this case. It's a good name.
Starting point is 00:16:24 It is. Twisted Faith. Yeah. I like that. And it's my author, Greg Olson. He's an incredible writer. So definitely read that book. But anyways, I digress. He put it that Nick came from a troubled family.
Starting point is 00:16:36 Okay. Nick's father, Dan, he worked really long hours as a mechanic. And when he was home, he wasn't really emotionally there. He was very distant from his children, and it seems his wife. Cool. Yeah. And Nick's mom, Sandra, excuse me,
Starting point is 00:16:52 did her best to support the family. She ran a daycare out of the home, and she would take and foster kids when she could. But it didn't seem like she thought too much about the fact that her children were already looking for more themselves. And other children just kept coming into the house. Yeah. She's spreading herself to thin. She is. And I mean, for like a great cause,
Starting point is 00:17:12 yeah, and foster kids is amazing. Take care of these kids that are already here first. Yes. Make sure they're cup is full. I agree. So that's the thing. Their home life became even more chaotic with all these other kids running around. And this is really sad. Later in life, Nick would tell his friends he always felt like his mom preferred his brothers and his sisters.
Starting point is 00:17:31 And he said sometimes even the foster kids to him, like even his foster brothers and sisters. Oh. And he said, looking back on the situation, I don't think she ever loved me. Actually, I think she hated me. Oh my God. Really thoughtful. And I'm like, I don't know why ever loved me. Actually, I think she hated me. Oh my God. That's awful.
Starting point is 00:17:46 And I'm like, I don't know why you thought she hated you. Like, what would make you think that? Exactly. That's troubling. It is. So obviously, we don't know if she actually truly hated Nick or not. But what we do know is that she did, unfortunately,
Starting point is 00:17:59 also suffer from long bouts of depression that left her really repressed and also emotionally unavailable. So these kids didn't really have an emotionally available parent. That's tough. And when she wasn't feeling that way, her time was spent managing the chaos
Starting point is 00:18:15 in the needs of all these children in the house. So she didn't have a lot of time left for Nick. And because of that, he ended up spending a lot of time alone. Yeah. And eventually while he was alone, he turned to the Bible and kind of like found peace and harmony and that. And it was then that he developed
Starting point is 00:18:32 an interest in Christianity. Okay. According to Nick, quote, it was God's calling that gave him strength and shaped every bit of his character. Wow. So yeah. Nick found a new confidence through his dedication to religion
Starting point is 00:18:44 and all throughout his teen years, it seemed actually like his self-esteem was really improving. But unfortunately that didn't always endear him to other people. Huh. Yes, when he and Don first met at Northwest Bible College, Don's friends and roommates thought it was really odd that she would have any interest in Nick. Some of her friends thought he was pushy, he was like too self-assured,
Starting point is 00:19:07 like almost came off cocky. Oh. And others called him a loser, a guy who tried too hard and was clueless about it. Damn. Which that's not very nice, but, you know. So they also started to notice a change in dawn whenever Nick was around.
Starting point is 00:19:22 Before Nick, dawn was super confident, super self-reliant, always working hard, accomplishing, accomplishing, like I said, and just looking for her next goal that she was gonna crush. Yeah. But around Nick, she kind of seemed to mute all of those parts of herself. She was reserved, she was shy,
Starting point is 00:19:40 and she started looking to him when it came time to make a decision for anything. Oh, no, and that's never a good thing. No, like you don't want your partner to mute the best parts of you. You want your partner to bring out the best parts in you. Yeah, and make you feel comfortable. I remember one of my best friends had this significant other who was always like annoyed by their like outgoing personality and would like kind of like mute them down.
Starting point is 00:20:04 Yeah. Like be like you're being annoying. Right. And it always bothered me because I was like, no, like that's one of the best parts about this person. Yeah. Whether you think it's annoying or not, that's like who they are. And if you think it's annoying, you're not meant to be together. Yeah, if you don't, if your love is conditional in that way, that like only if you tamper yourself down a little bit,
Starting point is 00:20:24 then you don't love that person. Exactly. And, and, and, and, and, Smotherer like they did not say together. They didn't work out. Yeah. And also, I feel like it honestly just always comes from a place of jealousy. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:20:35 When somebody's trying to stifle like those parts of you, like you're outgoingness, your ability to make a decision. It's something they don't have. Right. But they wish they could do. So they want to take that control over you and not let you do it either. Love should not be conditional. Nive her. But after two years at Northwest Bible College, Don, she got her associate degree. And in 1990 Oreo cookies and milk on Alki Beach. Or Alki Beach. That's really cute.
Starting point is 00:21:07 Yeah, like, give me Oreo, so I know it's real. Hell yes. They got married on April 20th, 1991, and they ended up moving back to Bremer 10, where Don had grown up. Okay. Now, she started work as a loan officer at a credit union, and Nick started pursuing a job as a youth pastor
Starting point is 00:21:22 at Christ community church, which was on, yes, Bainbridge Island. Okay. And that's a small island community right across the bay from Seattle. I love these little islands with like a spooky little church on it, like midnight mass. Oh, it's a spooky little church. All right. Yeah, the spooky like it that just gave me like midnight mass vibes. Yeah. I don't know anything about midnight mass, but I have to watch that show. I know I'm late to midnight mass
Starting point is 00:21:48 and I just like we just finished it like, like in the beginning of the year sometime. John and I, I finished it. I was super late on the midnight mass train, but like it sucks to be late on something like that because you're like guys, midnight mass. And everybody's like, yeah, I watched that like years ago
Starting point is 00:22:05 with the fuck. Like you're just doing that now. I'm like, but it's so good. Can I talk to someone? You need to find somebody who I haven't seen it. I need to watch it. I was like, you need to find someone who I don't shoot. I'm like, go look.
Starting point is 00:22:17 I should go take a poll in the streets for someone that's never seen one. I see someone is willing to watch that. Girl, you would like it. I'll watch it. I have to finish succession first. Do you do? And then I also off shoot.
Starting point is 00:22:28 I just really want to watch yellow jackets too. Me too. Okay, great. But this gave me like spooky little church like midnight mass vibes. And if it's anything like midnight mass, it did not end well for anybody. Well, you're great at poor shadowing what you've got. All right. Tinyurl.com slash the butcher in the room.
Starting point is 00:22:44 So to her friends, Don seemed happy enough. You're great at poor shadowing what you're an author. Tinyurl.com slash the butcher in the room. So to her friends, Don seemed happy enough, but a lot of them were still worried about her and how easily she was deferring decision-making processes to Nick. Yeah, even when his decisions went against her own preferences and seemed to make her uncomfortable.
Starting point is 00:22:59 E, like that's not good. No. It's one thing if you're just like, I mean, I'm super indecisive, so I'll be like, Drew, what do you think? Like, oh yeah. Do we finalize it like this? But when you're...
Starting point is 00:23:09 Differing all. Differing all. Differing all. And when you're uncomfortable with the outcome of the situation, then it sounds like you could have made your own decision. Yeah. You knew where your heart was leading you.
Starting point is 00:23:19 Yeah, that's not good. And it makes me sad that she felt like she had to do that to be good. Yeah, like she couldn't make her own choices or something, you know, would go right. Right. And I think part of that, and I think author Greg Olson also points this out, the reason why Don was submitting to her husband was because she believed in, quote, the fundamentalist edict that submitting to her husband's authority was God's plan and the greatest gift a woman could give him.
Starting point is 00:23:43 That sucks a lot. I also whatever you want to believe, but personally, I think that's success. If the greatest gift a woman can give a man is to submit to submit to their wishes, I will never give a man the greatest gift. But you know what? Or a woman to that other. It's all it's all consensual, man. If you decide that that is something that you can send to and you enjoy doing, go off. Then go off Queens and Kings. Go right off. Personally, that just sounds like fucking awful to me. Yeah.
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Starting point is 00:25:44 and know what you're going to be working with. So go to HelloFresh.com slash morbid16 and use code morbid16 for 16 free meals plus free shipping. Again, that's HelloFresh.com slash morbid16 and use code morbid16 for 16 free meals plus free shipping. Hey there fellow podcast listener, it's Elena. And Ash! And we're taking you back to the days before streaming services. Whoa!
Starting point is 00:26:12 You know when you would come home from high school and it was only a few hours until that TV show everyone was watching was about to come on? Well in 1999, that show was Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In our podcast with Wondery, the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer. In our podcast with Wondery, the re-watcher Buffy the Vampire Slayer, we take it back to 1999. So get out your knee high boots and paste that poster of Angel on the wall.
Starting point is 00:26:34 It's time to enter the Buffyverse. Some of you avid morbid listeners already know what we've gotten store. Hey, my nose. Join us as we slay our way through Buffy's drama, action and romance. Episode by episode. Slacy.
Starting point is 00:26:50 Follow the rewatcher, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen early and add free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. Darn, ee-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e- Man, here! Whale! Whale! But Nick had dreamed of becoming a youth pastor, and he specifically wanted to work at Christ's Community Church because of his connection to his own former youth pastor, who was Bob, also known as PB Smith. PB? He sounds like a really cool guy, I'll put it out there.
Starting point is 00:27:22 Good. He sounds like he was like a nice gentleman. That's great. And he still worked at the church. All right. He had been in charge of the church since the late 1980s, but by the time Nick arrived on the island and was hoping to kind of like link up with PB
Starting point is 00:27:34 and become this youth pastor, PB already had a partner, but he was leading the church with. Okay. Robert, I think it's Biley, Robert Biley. It could be Billy. I couldn't figure it out. And I looked it up. She did, I was there for Biley, Robert Biley. It could be Billy. I couldn't figure it out. And I looked it up.
Starting point is 00:27:47 She did, I was there for it, thank you. So Robert, I'm just gonna call her me either Robert or Pastor Robert for the rest of this, so I don't piss anyone off. But Robert, he was this charismatic, very animated man. He was in his early 40s. He'd been raised in a wealthy family. And he kinda seemed to like,
Starting point is 00:28:06 he would start these like really big projects and like have like this big picture in mind, but then it would all kinda fizzle out. And he had just left a job working for the Galloping Gourmet television program. Wow. I'm just gonna urge you to look further into that. It's wild.
Starting point is 00:28:22 Ooh. But to most, and especially to me, we'll be at my Google machine, Gallup and Gourmet television program, type in Robert B.I.L.Y. So to most, and especially to Nick though, he seems like an odd fit for church leadership. Okay, okay, okay. PB Smith, he took more, and he's the nice gentleman.
Starting point is 00:28:41 He took more of a friendly, but still conservative approach to church leadership, where Pastor Robert was very strict and extreme. Okay. According to Greg Olsen, quote, Robert seemed to try his best, but neither sympathy nor empathy appeared to be in his repertoire. Wow.
Starting point is 00:28:59 So that's something you don't want in a pastor, I think. Something I don't want in like anyone. Yeah. I would like to hang out with people that have sympathy and empathy. Absolutely. And their repertoire, also repertoire is a really fun word.
Starting point is 00:29:10 It feels good in your mouth. Yeah. Now, even though that was his approach, and on top of that, he actually had no theological training. Oh, even though all of those factors, the church board still voted to promote him to pastor. Okay. I don't understand how any of that factors, the church board still voted to promote him to pastor.
Starting point is 00:29:29 Okay, I don't understand how any of that works, but interesting, but all right, but okay, go off. So his new position seemed to go to his head almost immediately. PB sermons, they usually related to the more like traditional subject matter of the Bible, and his whole message was just about forming a strong relationship with God and your community. Those were like his main goals. Yeah. But Roberts, they were really theatrical, his sermons. Okay. He incorporated very different elements of belief systems that were like on the fringes of Christianity. Oh.
Starting point is 00:30:00 Like, not really there. And he also, this was like the main thing that he did that I was like, oh, he set up a new deliverance counseling program that was put into place to help the congregants quote unquote build a stronger relationship with God. But to me, it sounded more like setting up scare tactics. Oh, I don't love that. Yeah. So these sessions, again, according to Olsen, were intense, dramatic, and stepped in fear and shame, with Robert and PB praying and screaming at demons to exit the afflicted church members. Okay.
Starting point is 00:30:33 PB had never done that before. Oh, so this is all new. This is all new. These church members had never had demons screamed out of them. Oh, no. But they would ask the congregants all kinds of personal questions in these counseling sessions about their marriages, their sex lives, like they wanted to get any kind of deep, deep, dark secret out of them.
Starting point is 00:30:54 I hate that. And they would also focus on, of course, how wrong it was to be gay, how shameful it was to have an abortion, those kind of things. Yeah. That we personally don't agree with. Yes. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Starting point is 00:31:09 So Greg Olsen goes a bit further into his book, this whole piece of this in his book, and I would really recommend reading that section at the very least because holy shit, the things that they were doing during these counseling sessions or fucked. Ooh, I hate that. And it's not even like the actions,
Starting point is 00:31:26 like I think the actions of like, I don't like the idea of exorcisms personally. But it was more like the topic of conversation. And like, they just seem to be trying to shame people into submission. And I think that's the like, that's the vibe I'm getting. And that's why I don't like it. Like that's why I said boo,
Starting point is 00:31:41 it just sounds like this is really steep to like you said in like shame, fear. Yeah, but like almost bullying. Absolutely. In some way, you know, like this doesn't sound fun. No, and it wasn't what Christ community church was before. Yeah, that's the thing. Cause it sounds like it was like a, you know,
Starting point is 00:31:58 regular church. Yeah, but people seemed happy with this. Yeah, and this, oh, by the way, I meant to mention it, it's a very small church. It's compromised of only like a hundred families. Oh, really? Yeah, so these are people that are used to something and they have a sensitivity, community and family,
Starting point is 00:32:13 and then all of a sudden this guy walks in and kind of like disrupts all of that. Yeah, I don't like that. I feel like a lot of people were probably on edge. Yeah, so that was the environment that Nick Hackney entered into when he finally managed to get an offer to join that congregation. Oh boy. As youth pastor, he achieved his dream of becoming youth pastor, but it was different. It was different these days.
Starting point is 00:32:36 It was different. And that's the thing. He saw a PB as like, again, this charismatic war man, somebody he really looked up to, but then he walked on the scene and realized that this guy had been completely pushed to the side by Pastor Robert and Pastor Robert was domineering and dominating the entire conversation of the church. And the other thing was not only had Pastor Robert risen up the ranks quickly, but he had completely changed the entire church along the way. Like that sucks. So by the mid 90s, Pastor Robert had convinced the congregation
Starting point is 00:33:09 that he had a direct relationship with God and was one of his apostles. Like he could get messages from God and then convey those messages. This is an actual question I have. Isn't that exactly what a call leader does? Yes, absolutely. Okay. This is an actual question I have. Isn't that exactly what a cold leader does? Yes. Okay.
Starting point is 00:33:25 Absolutely. Okay. So, but the thing was, and he essentially was a cold leader. Yeah. I'm just going to go ahead and say that's my opinion. Yeah. Well, that's literally, isn't that what a cold leader does? They say they have some kind of connection to a very direct,
Starting point is 00:33:38 and connection to a higher power. Yes. And that's how they get everybody to do their bidding. Yes. Honestly, the beginning of all of this kind of reminds me of the Holy Roller's case. That we did, I think we did it with Rachel O'Brien on her podcast. Yeah. I was that really does remind me that it's spooky. But yeah, so he was like, I have direct messages from the big guy to tell you and that makes my word more valuable than PB Smiths or anybody on the church boards,
Starting point is 00:34:05 because they're not talking to God directly. Now, most members at the church, they fully believed him, I think, because they either believed fully in their faith or because they were scared into believing him. Yeah. And there were also some members in this congregation that said they were starting to receive messages and prophecies from God, or they had all along and just realized it. Yeah. But those who didn't believe Pastor Robert were definitely scared into silence when one of these people spoke out and called him a false Apostle. Uh-oh. So that man who was brave enough to say that.
Starting point is 00:34:41 Is it Apostle or Apostle? Um... I don't really know. Do you say it a Postal or a Postal? It's a Postal. It's a Postal. All right, sorry. No, I'm glad that you said it.
Starting point is 00:34:52 I didn't want you to get it later. It's a Postal. So this man called him a fake a Postal. There you go. It's losing all meaning at this point. It sure is. But that man and his entire family were ex-communicated from the church,
Starting point is 00:35:04 ex-communicated, excuse me, from the church in a 10-page letter that was actually written by PB Smith and circulated throughout the entire congregation. So this family, they made an example out of them. Yeah. So Robert was free to and continued to take the church in a more conservative direction at this point. And now he was insisting that they should be homeschooling their children, eating healthier diets. Oh, don't tell people what to do with their kids. Don't have their bodies for their kids.
Starting point is 00:35:35 For their bodies. Yeah, he wanted them to not only do all of that, but also start dressing more modestly. This is becoming a call to everybody. And absolutely. Jesus. Now, since it was well known that Nick and PB were close, Robert didn't really have much interest in Nick
Starting point is 00:35:49 when he first joined the church. He figured Nick would probably just be kind of an extension of PB and not worth his time or somebody to push out. Yeah. So it kind of came as a surprise to the pastor when Nick approached him and asked Robert to take him under his wing.
Starting point is 00:36:06 Like Nick said to Robert, will you take me under your wing? Huh. He apparently said, I'm working with PB and we never do anything. I don't want his culture to affect me and cause me to become like him. You don't want to be a charismatic warm man. A charismatic man. A charismatic warm man. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:36:23 What the hell? What? I think you look at this guy and you want to be like him? Like, I mean, cult leader, power. Yeah. So even though he'd been close with PB for years, Nick clearly identified Robert as the stronger of the two, and that's why he wanted to align himself with him. He wanted to align himself with the guy he thought was going to come out on top.
Starting point is 00:36:41 Oh, that never works out, man. It doesn't. Unfortunately, Robert did kind of seem to come out on top, but that's upsetting. Didn't work out for Nick. But similarly, Robert saw Nick as a tool to help him achieve his goal of outsting PB and just taking over the church once and for all
Starting point is 00:36:57 as senior pastor, which I didn't realize that there was even levels of pastors. I didn't either. I knew there were like, that's interesting. Yeah, I knew there was like youth pastors. Yeah, I knew there was youth pastors. But I thought that was just because they were like kids. Me too. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:37:10 But anyways, by early 1997, Nick and Don had gotten really sick of moving around. They were moving around a lot. And obviously the inevitable cost that comes along with that. They were in the little side business of flipping properties. But Don was also getting tired of that.
Starting point is 00:37:25 She just wanted to move into a home where they could build a life together, and not have to like fix up a ton of shit. Absolutely. So when Nick found yet another fixer upper for Saline Eastbremerton, Dawn just reluctantly agreed that it was time for them to become homeowners.
Starting point is 00:37:39 They were gonna buy this house, fix it up, flip it, but not sell it. Okay. But she didn't want to do that, but she agreed because it's what Nick wanted. Oh. A yet another house, fix it up, flip it, but not sell it. Okay, but she didn't want to do that, but she agreed because it's what Nick wanted. Oh. Yet another house to fix. It's a false, yeah.
Starting point is 00:37:50 Right, but the thing was, she and Nick spent the better part of the winter in early spring remodeling, but by the spring of 1997, the cost of renovating and the second mortgage that they had taken out on the house put them very deeply into debt. Uh oh. Which is not good. Not a good place to be.
Starting point is 00:38:10 Not a good place to be. Tensions run high. Tensions were running very high inside of the house, but the congregants of the church thought that Nick and Don just had the perfect marriage. They saw them as this loving couple. They saw that Don seemed to be willing to do whatever it took to support Nick Streams, and she was. She absolutely was. It sounds like it.
Starting point is 00:38:28 It, she worked really hard to always support Nick, but the renovation and the spiraling debt was really starting to put a strain on their marriage. And it went deeper than probably anybody could have imagined. Now one afternoon, Don meant, I kept saying meant. Don meant for lunch with her friend Eunice. Eunice had also fallen on hard times recently, so she moved back in with her parents, and she was one of Don's friends
Starting point is 00:38:53 that wasn't really so fond of Nick. But she was still surprised when Don confided in her saying, if Nick and I end up splitting two, I would never ever want to live with my parents. So, Don, Eunice is like, oh, she's even mentioning the fact that they could split. Like, even putting that out there as a possibility.
Starting point is 00:39:11 Like, that's a big fucking deal. So she laughed it off just like casually and was like, well, if that ever happens, you can live with me. Like, don't worry about it. She was half joking. But Don apparently applied, replied, okay, that might happen.
Starting point is 00:39:25 Oh, yeah. I'd be like, do you want to talk? Do you want to say anything? I think it was like a very like passing exchange, but at the very least it suggested that Dawn was thinking of a world where Nick wasn't a part of her world anymore. And it was significant enough that Eunice remembered it years and years after Donald had passed. So Donald and Nick's marital issues, they didn't only boil down to the renovation and the debt coming just from that. It was more Nick's reckless spending and irresponsibility with money in general.
Starting point is 00:39:58 Not just with the house, but with everything. If the church needed something, he would volunteer to buy it. If a congregant needed money, he would lend it to them without any expectation that they pay the money back. Which is like very kind. Sure. Absolutely. But not when you're... When you can't... When you have a family, you also have to have a responsibility for them. You've got to put your oxygen mask on first. Exactly. By 1997, he had started also funneling money into his latest dream project,
Starting point is 00:40:28 which was a Christian youth camp. He really, really wanted to go all in for this. And he actually even started eyeing some property in Jefferson County. He thought it was gonna be perfect for the camp. In fact, he thought that this was the camp that God wanted for him. And his feeling was only solidified further when Sandy Glass and other members of the congregation
Starting point is 00:40:51 who claimed to have very frequent visions from God himself, she claimed that her latest and most prominent vision was that of a new church on a property just like the one Nicod seen for his youth camp. Interesting. She said she saw this new church prospering under Nick's leadership. Oh, and of course, with her own support, she would be more than willing to help and support my goodness. Yeah, look at that. My guy Greg Olson, he notes that notably absent from the vision was any mention of
Starting point is 00:41:24 Sandy's husband Jimmy and Nick's wife Don. I was wondering that much. Yeah, no, they weren't in the same position. Yeah, it was like his Don in there. God said, forget about that. No, he said no way. So Sandy Glass, just to tell you a little bit more about her, she came from a difficult background. She had really gone through her fair share of tragedy.
Starting point is 00:41:39 She was only in her 20s at this point, and her first serious boyfriend had died from an unspecified disease. Oh. Her father had been killed in a construction accident. Oh. And her brother was struggling with addiction, which was causing a lot of stress and heartbreak for their family.
Starting point is 00:41:56 Oh, she's going through it. She's only in her 20s at this point. Oh, jeez. So I can understand why she turned to God for sure. Oh, absolutely. I can understand why a lot of people do. Yeah, absolutely. That's all I'll say about that. Yeah, exactly.
Starting point is 00:42:10 Now, she wouldn't let those things become excuses. And I think, yeah, she did her best to be a strong source of support for her kids and her husband, Jimmy. But by 1997, things with Jimmy hadn't been going well for a while. And money was tight. Because they were a single income household, only relying on Jimmy's salary as a carpenter, because Sandy was staying home with the kids. But she also was very reckless with money like Nick
Starting point is 00:42:37 and couldn't stop spending money that they didn't even have. Oh, no. So obviously that led to a lot of fights between her and Jimmy, where Jimmy would just yell and lose his temper or completely distance himself from the situation and go to the bar for hours and hours and hours. Oh, no, and they have kids. Yeah, so he's either there and like they're fighting or he's not there at all. Yeah It's sad. Yeah. Now like a lot of the other couples at Christ community church
Starting point is 00:43:03 Sandy and Jimmy decided to turn to the church for help with their marriage, with the deliverance counseling. In their case, that meant turning to Nick Hackney, and again, the deliverance counseling program, to which I say, big fucking yikes. And Jimmy's parents also said, big fucking yikes. Oh, really? James and Mary Glass, they were like, I don't know about this.
Starting point is 00:43:22 They thought that Sandy and Jimmy's decision to turn to the church for help seemed rash, and they also wondered if Nick had the experience or even the qualifications to help their son. Yeah. And they especially started to worry when Nick seemed to take a very, very defined interest in Sandy instead of Sandy and Jimmy as a couple. Uh-oh. And his interest and special attention also wasn't just happening within the walls of Sandy and Jimmy's counseling sessions.
Starting point is 00:43:52 He was calling Sandy at all hours of the day, especially during like family gatherings and events that she would have. Even if she was the host, she would walk away and excuse herself and be on the phone with Nick for like way too long. Just privately. What the fuck? Yeah, that's inappropriate.
Starting point is 00:44:10 It is. And Jimmy's parents, James and Mary, they weren't the first members of the congregation to notice that Nick seemed to pay not only special attention to Sandy, but just to the women in the congregation in general. Oh, Nick. Actually, when Nick took over the counseling program a couple years before, there were multiple people that complained about them, about him,
Starting point is 00:44:32 and how he was interested in things that they considered to be very, very private. One woman actually went to Pastor Robert about Nick and said all he wants to do is talk about sex. And for that reason, she didn't want to go to the church for counseling anymore. She was like, I'm at the point where I want to look outside of the church for counseling because this asshole
Starting point is 00:44:52 that you have running it is disgusting. You, can you imagine like, what a pig? What a pig, absolutely. And you. I just feel so bad for anybody that had to go through the counseling process with him because it's like, you're at a low point already in your life or you're struggling at the very least and you're turning to a place where you believe in. And this guy just ruins all that for you.
Starting point is 00:45:16 And this guy is like being really an appropriate and gross. Exactly. What a low feeling that must be. Right. Like it must take you even lower. Yeah. He just prayed upon people. Now, Pastor Roberts, wife Pamela,
Starting point is 00:45:28 she was yet another person who noticed how Nick was treating the women, and she was starting to get really ticked off and troubled by it. So she actually took Nick aside herself, and she was like, I want to have a conversation with you about this counseling program. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:45:41 And she was like, you are too eager to involve yourself in people's marital issues and especially their sexual problems and you need to knock it off. Well, I'm glad somebody was like, you creep. Yeah, and I love that it was a woman. Yeah. Hell yeah, Pamela.
Starting point is 00:45:55 Cut the shit. She literally told him and this is a quote, this is marital abuse. You need to focus on Don, like your wife. Yeah. You need to comfort her and Don needs to know that she's number one in your life. Good for her.
Starting point is 00:46:06 So she was like, hey, why don't you focus on your own fucking family? Yeah, stop being weird. So Nick, surprisingly, not one to welcome criticism. Just brush the conversation off and forget about it. Pamela was the first woman to openly criticize him, but she probably wouldn't be the last. Other people at the church were being quiet about their opinions,
Starting point is 00:46:26 but they also felt like Pamela did and like James and Mary Glaston. It was clear to them that Nick did not give a shit about Don's feelings at all, and they thought it was really gross how he threw himself head first into private issues, but at the same time, they trusted PB who was still with the church,
Starting point is 00:46:43 and Pastor Robert, I don't know if they trusted him, but I think they just didn't want to pick any fights with him. Yeah. And they assumed that Nick wouldn't be in charge of this program if he couldn't be trusted. So the church had almost been completely transformed by the fall of 1997. And in late August, Pastor Robert had officially pushed PB out. Oh no. As the senior pastor. And it was a decision that was actually backed by the church board. Oh no.
Starting point is 00:47:11 So now that he was in charge of the church PB and his wife, just headed off to Africa to do some mission work. I mean, good for PB and his wife. I love it. I think they were like, this has gotten really weird and we need to get as far away from this as possible. Well, they were probably like, we're gonna go do what we are like preaching. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:47:28 And we're going to go help people. Exactly. We're going to go do what we believe in. You can continue doing like your version of this, but we're going to do what we were setting out to do. Exactly. Yeah, I agree. But back at the church, the deliverance counseling sessions, they were starting to become
Starting point is 00:47:43 routine and they were getting stranger and stranger and stranger. Nick was relishing in this newfound power and Pastor Robert was too busy to give a fuck. Too busy becoming a cold leader. The sad thing about telling this story is that because she passed away when she was so young and because if she had spoken out against anything it would have caused a huge uproar. We don't know how Don felt about all the changes going on in the church. And that's sad. Yeah. And not even only just the changes going on in the church, but the changes going on in her husband. Yeah, her marriage. Like, we don't know how she felt about it because one, she passed away so young and also because I don't think she was allowed
Starting point is 00:48:22 to say it. Yeah, she didn't feel comfortable. Exactly. That's sad. It is. By all accounts, she was smart, gorgeous, self-reliant, and she definitely would have had an opinion about what was going on in her home in the church. But like I said earlier, maybe she wouldn't have set it out loud because she took the conservative church doctrine very seriously. She always believed that the wife should be subservient to the husband.
Starting point is 00:48:47 So even if she suspected that Nick was cheating on her or being inappropriate at the very least, it's not that likely that she would have confronted him. Because as part of the whole thing, it's like, deal with it quietly and with a smile on your face. What makes a person a murderer? Are they born to kill? Or are they made to kill? I'm Candace DeLong and on my podcast Killer Psychy Daily, which you can find exclusively
Starting point is 00:49:23 on Amazon Music. I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler. On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings, Breaking Down Lori Valallow, aka Mommy Doomstays Motives, and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder. I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds.
Starting point is 00:49:58 I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psychie Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. So, you know, she may have been staying tight-lipped about her suspicions, but by the end of the year, more and more people in the congregation were starting
Starting point is 00:50:23 to notice that Nick was really going for it with the inappropriate behavior and especially they were noticing that he was spending a lot of time with sandy glass in particular So more and more people were going to pastor Robert to say like We're concerned about this. We don't like this the counseling sessions are getting weirder and weirder But he didn't care. Yeah as long as Nick wasn't planning to take over power of the church, he didn't do what they wanted. He could do what they wanted. So toward the later half of 1997, the concerns were becoming so frequent that even Pastor
Starting point is 00:50:57 Robert couldn't push them off. He tried his best, but they started, they were coming in probably daily at this point. When Pastor Robert is doing anything besides leading a cult, you know that it got intense. You know it's real. Yeah, exactly. But instead of pulling Nick aside, he pulled Sandy aside. And he was like, hey, your relationship with Nick is inappropriate. And you should focus on your husband, Jimmy,
Starting point is 00:51:19 because your relationship is already fucked up. So I'm sorry. Can we talk to the church leader? No, it's Sandy's fault. What are you talking about? She's a woman, of course, it's her fault. So Sandy didn't receive this well, nor would I. Not well received.
Starting point is 00:51:34 Not well received, me either. Now, she maintained that she believed that God wanted her Nick to be together. Oh, literally, that's not. And in a letter to Pastor Robert, she said, the judgment I feel from you makes it hard for me to believe that you accept my giftings at all, talking about her visions,
Starting point is 00:51:51 or that you have any confidence in my ability to hear God and use this help to help anyone. Oh, boy. Yeah, so like essentially what she was saying is God wants me and Nick to be together. And if you don't believe that, then you don't believe in me and fuck everybody else. Yeah. Yeah. This is a wild story. It's truly crazy. Now outside of the church, Sandy and Nick were barely hiding their affair. And it was taking a toll on literally everybody around them. Yeah. And this is really sad.
Starting point is 00:52:23 I just want to let you know this is going to bump you out big time. One day one of Sandy and Jimmy's kids went to their dad, upset and crying, and told him, mom and Nick told us that after you die, Nick's going to be our new dad. That is fucked up in a way that I can't even describe. Can you shame a magic? On them. Shame on them. Shame on them.
Starting point is 00:52:48 Because it wasn't like Nick told us this. It was there mom and there. Mom and there also was this. Like that's fucked. Visity, fizity fucked. Yeah. And not shame on them. That hurts my heart so badly
Starting point is 00:52:59 that that kid was probably terrified of their dad dying. Yeah, they're poor confused little child. Like who says that to a kid? Like that's fucked up. It's so weird. Ugh. It's beyond. These two are gross.
Starting point is 00:53:09 But Jimmy refused to entertain the idea that Sandy was cheating on him, even still at this point, when the affair was so public that even his kids were coming to him with it. So the tension in the glass family was growing and growing and growing and it was dangerously
Starting point is 00:53:25 close to a breaking point, dangerously close. And by Thanksgiving, the cracks were beginning to show even in dawn, who as we know usually put a brief face forward. She told two other women in the congregation, things are not so good right now. I'm overwhelmed by everything. Our finances are MS, but mostly I'm worried about Nick. I don't think I make him happy He's never home. He's gone all the time. I don't even know if he wants me anymore. Oh, that's so sad
Starting point is 00:53:51 And what's sadder is she was trying everything she could do to make him happy She was trying to lose weight, which she did not need to do. She was beautiful She was just doing anything she could think of. That's so sad. It is So the woman in the congregation they tried to reassure her and they were like She was just doing anything she could think of. That's so sad. It is. So the woman in the congregation, they tried to reassure her, and they were like, whatever is causing problems between you and Nick is not your fault. Like, key. And I'm happy that somebody told her that.
Starting point is 00:54:15 Yeah. Not like, yeah, like, try this diet, because you know some people will do that. Absolutely. And it sounds like, you know, there were people around her who could have said that. So glad that she had people who were like, no, like, you don't need to change your fault. Anything about yourself. If you're very crazy, and that's the thing,
Starting point is 00:54:33 I like doing research for this, I watched a couple shows about it and all of the people that in Don's life, like, absolutely loved her. She had friends that were her friends in high school that she was still friends with. Like, and like friends in like grade school that she was still friends with, that spoke her praises. So you know that's a good person.
Starting point is 00:54:53 Of course. So, but the thing was people could still tell there was something deeper and more complicated that was upsetting Dawn. Yeah. And she told them, my life isn't what I would, what I thought it would be. And then she went on to explain that there were major and irreconcilable differences between she and Nick's long-term plans. Oh, jeez. And at the forefront of that was that she desperately wanted to be a mother. She wanted to have kids so bad. And Nick did not want children. Oh, which I think we talked about that a couple weeks ago, like just so fucking sad if you find yourself in that situation.
Starting point is 00:55:29 Yeah, that you weren't, that you didn't talk about it beforehand. Right. We're honest with each other beforehand and now you're married and you're in two totally different camps that way. And she feels stuck. And when you want kids,
Starting point is 00:55:42 Yeah. It is a feeling and a need that you simply cannot ignore. Like you just can't. Like when John and I decided we wanted kids, it was a desperation. I remember. I remember.
Starting point is 00:55:57 When it was hard, it took a long time and we had to go through the fertility treatments, it was devastating. Of course it. The thought of fertility treatments. It was devastating. Of course it. The thought of not being able to was devastating. So I can't imagine what she was going through. I'm not even at the place right now. We're like, we're talking about it, obviously, but like, I'm not at the place where we're
Starting point is 00:56:16 like ready to make that happen. But one of my biggest fears is like not being able to. Yes, it's hard. And honestly, because of seeing what you guys went through. Yeah. It was gut-runching. It is. It's really, really off. So knowing she desperately wanted kids, and he was just like, no, no, that's gut-runching to me.
Starting point is 00:56:33 And I'm sure it wasn't even a conversation. It was just like, he said no, and that was the end of it. Oh, that's awful. So sad. Now, strangely, all of the chaos actually seemed to be affecting Nick too. By December, he seemed absolutely exhausted to everyone who knew him, which was a big change because normally outwardly, he was very enthusiastic and excited about church
Starting point is 00:56:56 and being weird and deliverance counseling. But there were a few women in the congregation in particular who seemed to be demanding his time more and more other than Sandy. But there were a few women in the congregation in particular who seemed to be demanding his time more and more, other than Sandy. And then there was still Sandy whose messages from God were growing more demanding. She was urging Nick that he needed to take action toward that dream of the youth camp. Oh yeah. And as Christmas got closer, it seemed like there was something big that was going to shift.
Starting point is 00:57:24 And it was going to be Nick who shifted it So Don woke up on Christmas morning to find that like I said she was sick with a cold Remember I said that at the beginning. Yeah, she'd been fighting a cold the previous day and when she woke up on Christmas It was even worse. She like didn't even want to go out But she always showed up for everybody in her life So she and Nick took the ferry to the mainland that morning, and they spent the day with her parents and her brothers.
Starting point is 00:57:50 Later that night, they actually dropped by to see PB Smith's family. They played board games and Nick made plans with PB's daughter Lindsay and two other friends to go hunting the next morning. Okay. Now, when Don and Nick said good night, their friends had no idea that would be the last time they would see Don, obviously, because she died in a tragic fire. So the next morning, December 26, Lindsay Smith and her husband Phil met Nick to go hunting just before Don at the Hood Canal Bridge in Jefferson County.
Starting point is 00:58:21 They spent a couple hours in the woods, but they never fired a single shot. There was nothing to hunt to which I say, ha! But around 9 a.m., they decided they were gonna call it a day because nothing was going on. So they drove into town to have breakfast at a local diner. And as they were eating breakfast, Nick suddenly jumped up out of nowhere
Starting point is 00:58:39 and was like, Don and I still haven't had time to open our Christmas presents. And then he asked for the check and quickly headed home. Oh. Now the time stamp on the credit card receipt showed that it was 9.30 in the morning when that happened. So Nick would have made it home a little after 10. Okay.
Starting point is 00:58:55 As we know, he did show up a little after 10 to his home completely engulfed in flames and heard the news that his wife Don had been killed in a fire. Now as far as fire investigators could tell, the blaze had been actually mostly confined to the bedroom at first, which now was like a burned out shell of what it had been. And the cause of the fire appeared to be a faulty space heater, which escalated quickly due to, quote, the abundance of newspapers and wrapping paper and a collection of many propane containers near the headboard on one side of the bed. Okay, are we looking at that as the origin point?
Starting point is 00:59:35 So, Nickyxp... Arson. Accident. Okay. So Nickyxplaimed to the investigators that he and Don had opened their Christmas gifts the night before. Uh-huh. Do you remember when earlier he just said they had them?
Starting point is 00:59:50 Yeah. Yep. No, they did. And since Don wasn't feeling well, they just headed right to bed instead of cleaning up all the wrapping paper. And they were like, okay, totally. What about the propane tanks? Like, well, that, like, did you get propane tanks for Christmas?
Starting point is 01:00:04 Yes. Oh, that's literally the, okay. Yes. Okay. He told well, that, like, did you get propane tanks for Christmas? Yes. Oh, that's literally the, okay. Yes, okay. He told the investigators that they had actually been a gift to him from dawn because they were still using space heaters to heat the home throughout their innovation. Okay. Now, overall, the death seemed to be an accident.
Starting point is 01:00:21 It was truly a tragic one, but unfortunately, in the winter months, a very familiar accident, a faulty space heater, poof, you're up in flames. Okay. So once the scene had been cleared, Pastor Robert showed up. Woohoo!
Starting point is 01:00:34 Oh, good. He was like, I'm here to help. Yeah, things were chaotic enough. Let's bring this guy in. He showed up and, you know, he wanted to try to provide support and comfort to Nick. And when Nick told Robert what had happened that Donald passed away,
Starting point is 01:00:46 Robert immediately suggested that they try to raise her from the dead with the power of prayer. Shut the fuck up. I'm sorry. That, you can believe whatever you want to believe. But they suggested they try to raise her from the dead with the power of prayer. That, I mean, that like literally can't happen.
Starting point is 01:01:05 So like, that's really fucked up to do to someone. Of course it is. It's a place that kind of opened there. Okay. But he had been doing that back at church. His sermons at the church had recently come to include the belief that certain people, those of the truest faith had the power to resurrect somebody from the dead. Okay. Or the truest of faith had the power to resurrect somebody from the dead. Okay. Or the truest of faith had the power to resurrect themselves.
Starting point is 01:01:28 Okay. And to him, it seemed like there was no better time to put that practice than with somebody from his own congregation. Yeah. He was like, let's go. But the mention of resurrection seemed to alarm Nick. He jumped up from the truck bed where they were sitting in
Starting point is 01:01:44 and insisted that nobody should try to pray over Don's remains. He insisted to pass to Robert and told him she's been so badly burnt, she'd be in terrible pain. It would be awful. Okay. Which, yeah, that is a belief system that people are holding here, that this could happen, that is a very reasonable thing to say.
Starting point is 01:02:06 Yeah, absolutely. And something that I can absolutely go, oh, yep, I get it. For sure. Like that sound, that would be terrible. Like just thinking about that is fucking terrible. I mean, I would think that like if you can resurrect from the dead, like that's crazy and a miracle in itself.
Starting point is 01:02:22 So like maybe if you got that ability, you would just like come back, like not in the way that you would die. But if you would, I don't know. You don't know. And that's a possibility that I can understand, like I don't want her to be in pain
Starting point is 01:02:33 or like horribly disfigured or. Yeah. Okay. Totally. So even though the relationship had gone off, got off to a rocky start, Robert always knew Nick to be among the most faithful in the church.
Starting point is 01:02:45 So the fact that he refused to even try to raise Don from the dead, it struck Robert a strange. He just went, hmm. So instead Nick asked Robert if he could inform Don's family of the death, which Robert also thought was strange. He was like, you want me to go tell them? And Nick was like, yeah, I do. I just can't bring myself to do go tell them? And Nick was like, yeah, I do. I just can't bring myself to do it. Yeah. And he was like, okay, no problem. So the news made its way through the church congregation
Starting point is 01:03:13 very quickly. And a lot of the congregants were absolutely shocked by this. Nobody expected Don to pass away in a house fire. Like, yeah. Why would you ever? So they formed a prayer chain to pray for Don Sol, which, that's nice.
Starting point is 01:03:28 But at the same time, not everybody was so quick to accept this explanation of what had happened. Sandy's mother-in-law, Mary Gloss, had a lot of insight into the tensions at church, not only with just like her daughter-in-law and that whole side of the marriage, but she seemed to have eyes on everything of the church. Okay.
Starting point is 01:03:48 She knew what was up. And she suspected that Don's death was not an accident. Oh, look at her. She did not think so. And she told her husband, she was like, I don't think it's an accident. Like, I don't know if we should go talk to somebody about this. But he said, if Nick really had something to do with the fire, the police will certainly discover that in their investigation, and we need to keep our noses out of this. But he said, if Nick really had something to do with the fire, the police will
Starting point is 01:04:05 certainly discover that in their investigation, and we need to keep our noses out of this. As far as he was concerned, it was best that they stay as far away from this investigation as possible. Okay. Okay. Um, but Mary was quickly proven wrong. Just days later, the fire and a Don's death were ruled accidental. And the Bremerton police handed the investigation off to Safe Co Insurance Company who had already received Nick's request to process Don's life insurance claim. Which he was struggling with money, so sure. Yeah. Now, some people were like, okay, yeah, her death was an accident. And you know, Nick is just a victim of cruel circumstances.
Starting point is 01:04:47 So the church community held a celebrations of life event as a funeral for Don. And they invited family and friends to tell stories and just celebrate Don's life while they grieved her death. Nick ended up giving a 45 minute eulogy. And some people were like, how is he capable of being so clear so soon after his wife tragically died to give a 45 minute eulogy? And then on the other side of things, people were like absolutely touched by it and thought it was beautiful. And then there was probably that whole and also the fact that he's a pastor. He's a pastor.
Starting point is 01:05:20 That's his whole thing. Yeah, like the turn to God and tragedy. Exactly. So with the house destroyed by the fire, Nick moved in with the Smith family, actually. He moved into their daughter Lindsay's old bedroom. And around that time, some people started noticing how strangely hot and cold he was when it came to the subject of Don's death. At times, he seemed like he was like almost performatively grief-stricken. And then there were other times where it seemed like he couldn almost performatively grief-stricken.
Starting point is 01:05:45 And then there were other times where it seemed like he couldn't be bothered to even think about Don. Now one day, when Lindsay came back to the house to get some of her things, she found a photo collage of Don that she'd made for Nick, and I probably for the funeral, and she found it stuffed into the back of her bedroom closet. And she was like, at first she was like, that's weird. And obviously, Nick must have been the one to stuff it back there.
Starting point is 01:06:08 But then she said to herself, it must have been really hard for him to look at that every day. Okay. Fair. So in the weeks and months that followed, it's just Nick's way of grieving was a constant answer to a myriad of bizarre,
Starting point is 01:06:23 callous and rude behaviors by Nick. He snubbed his neighbors, he kept having inappropriate relationships with young women from the church, and he seemed to be using his widow or status to try to make other people feel bad for him. Yeah, I don't like it. I don't either. Just months after Don's death, he started confiding in several women from the church, including PB's daughter Lindsay. The one married to his friend Phil. Oh, yeah. But rather than see his behavior as extremely inappropriate, all of these women seemed honored that a leader of the church had chosen them to trust with his most inner thoughts, his inner most thoughts.
Starting point is 01:07:06 So some people they made sure to keep their relationship platonic and just, you know, be a shoulder to lean on. And others welcomed his sexual advances, advances, excuse me. And they were sure that it was what God wanted for them. Okay. This is going to blow your fucking mind. Nick was able to manipulate Don's own mother into thinking he was a suffering widow, and they two slept together, not long after Don's death. Don's mother had sex with her husband, had sex with her husband, relations with her husband after she died. That's fucked up. I was, I don't need, like I'm shocked right now
Starting point is 01:07:56 when I already knew that, obviously. When I was reading it in the book and I was like, oh my God. And for those that are going to read a twisted faith, just know that it's a little graphic in that scene. Oh my. So I'm going to move on now. Nick, please do.
Starting point is 01:08:16 Just kept on abusing his power and taking advantage of his congregation. Wow, he's a fucking filthy animal. Yeah. He kept taking advantage of his congregation for a few more years, but it got to the point where the complaints were too numerous for the church board to ignore. Because now people were not, they were going over fucking Roberts head there
Starting point is 01:08:35 to the board and being like, what are you gonna do about this? Glad that you guys were taking it seriously. So they couldn't ignore it at this point. He wasn't just carrying on affairs with a few women that would have been bad enough, but there were some cases where he was clearly just leading women on and taking advantage of them.
Starting point is 01:08:52 I'm so confused by this. Yeah, so these women, obviously, they felt completely betrayed and victimized and they weren't gonna let things go. Yeah, so finally in the spring of 2001, they had a church board meeting about the issue and it was decided that Nick needed to leave Christ community church.
Starting point is 01:09:09 Damn, finally. Not only like, did he get like demoted, he had to leave the church. Yeah. Now some congregants called for forgiveness, but a majority seemed happy to see him go and they were happy because the tension and the drama that he had caused ten years, they were like,
Starting point is 01:09:25 okay, maybe this will finally come to a close. So being kicked out of the church that he devoted almost a decade of his life to was a big blow to Nick. But it was just the beginning of his troubles. Oh. Because on April 10th, 2001, Sandy Glass and her lawyer sat down with the county district attorney,
Starting point is 01:09:47 and Sandy was presented with a document offering her immunity from prosecution in exchange for her testifying in court to something that she'd been keeping to herself since the end of December 1997. Don's death was not an accident. It was a fucking murder. Fuck Nick. She had been murdered. According to Sandy, Nick called her on the morning of December 26th, and all he said, this cryptic mother-fucking asshole of a loser said,
Starting point is 01:10:16 I did it, before the call was interrupted by another incoming call. What? So Sandy put Nick on hold to answer the other call, which was actually somebody from the church calling to say, to tell her what had happened to Don. So Sandy was like, oh my god, and she went back to her phone call with Nick, and she was like, what are you talking about?
Starting point is 01:10:35 And all he would say to her was, it's done. What? It's done. So maybe she was too scared, or maybe she didn't want to know, but Sandy allegedly didn't ask Nick for further clarification until a few weeks later. And when she finally asked him what he meant, according to Sandy, Nick told her that on the morning of the fire, this is terrible and graphic.
Starting point is 01:11:00 He had given Donna a large overdose of Benadryl and then covered her face with a plastic bag to smother her. Oh my God. According to Nick, the Benadryl had been enough to mostly immobilize her, but she was still awake and quote, could see him through the plastic bag and what he was doing.
Starting point is 01:11:19 She literally watched her husband kill her in the plastic bag, through a plastic bag in their bed. Oh, in their home. That's horrific. So once he was sure that she was dead, he scattered old newspaper and wrapping paper around the room and under her body and placed the propane tanks by the bed and set the heater up in a way that it would cause a fire and destroy any evidence of a crime or so he thought. Oh my God. The story seemed too bizarre to be true to investigators
Starting point is 01:11:54 and parts of it didn't seem to make any sense. But it did explain some of the more unusual aspects of the case like why Don wasn't even slightly roused by the region's fire around her. She was already dead. Why there was no suit or carbon monoxide in her lungs. I'm sorry. We ignored that.
Starting point is 01:12:13 Should we begin with? We didn't ignore it now, but we came up with a very fucking weird bizarre reason for why that happened. Or why in one of the photos of Don's corpse taken immediately after the fire was extinguished, why you could see paper lying underneath her body. I don't know how anybody didn't question that. Wow. I think some people looked the other way
Starting point is 01:12:39 because this was a pastor. I mean, this is wildly botched. Wild, the fire marshal at the time said he never forgot about this case all throughout the years. He was like, I didn't think it was an accident. But he there was it wasn't up to him to decide. Yeah. So when the prosecutor asked why Sandy hadn't come forward with all this information before now, all she could say was that she was too afraid she lose her kids. If the police thought she was involved, which I understand but wow and then at the same time she also had been thoroughly manipulated by Nick to think that their relationship was what God wanted for them and
Starting point is 01:13:16 It was only after she learned that he was Stepping out on her too with other women in the church. Yeah, that she realized she was being used She realized the relationship was not what God wanted. And then she realized that if this relationship wasn't what God wanted, that meant that God hadn't preordained Don's death, it was murder. Oh no.
Starting point is 01:13:40 The story was wild. Yeah, this is wild. Reckless. I can't believe that this just like came to me. Yeah. I never would have heard of this otherwise. No. I was just looking at another book on Amazon.
Starting point is 01:13:52 This one came up, Suggested. And I saw the whole description. And I was like, what the fuck? This is wild. Wild. So this, yeah. It was enough for investigators to reopen the case and look into what Sandy alleged.
Starting point is 01:14:05 Yeah. So they revisited the evidence that had been collected in the initial investigation, and they spoke to most of the witnesses and members of the church that they had spoken to before. And in talking to those folks, they learned all about the other women that Nick had been having affairs with. Oh no. And the investigators also reviewed the original autopsy results with the forensic pathologist, who not only
Starting point is 01:14:28 discovered that Dawn had toxic levels of benedrial in her system. Oh, oops. She had five times the normal dosage in her system. Oh, shit. But that's why he said she didn't think she had tolerance for it, and she just kept taking it. Of course.
Starting point is 01:14:42 Yup. He was trying to set it all up. But there were also signs of her having been dead before the fire started. Like I said, those sudden her lungs. In the original autopsy, it was noted that there was no carbon monoxide in her lungs. And once blood work was done,
Starting point is 01:14:57 there was no carbon monoxide in the blood. And obviously, like you were just saying, that was something that did stick out to the forensic pathologist initially, because carbon monoxide always attaches itself to red blood cells in a case like this. And if a person is breathing while a fire rages around them, they will sure as shit have some fucking foot in their lungs. Absolutely. But this pathologist was working under a preconceived idea But this pathologist was working under a preconceived idea that the fire was accidental and this was a pastor's wife. There couldn't be murder involved here.
Starting point is 01:15:31 No way. That's wild. So that's looking the other way. Of course it is. Like there's no... To put that along to with them being like, it is weird that she didn't move at all while being burned alive. Like, Benadryl?
Starting point is 01:15:48 You tell me Benadryl makes it so you don't feel your flesh burning. Like, I'm sorry, she would have moved a little. And maybe it was because it was five times the amount, but even still I would think. It doesn't paralyze you. It doesn't kill all the nerves in your body. You're going to feel it. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:16:03 And your body's going gonna move a little bit, you're gonna at least attempt to move or shift. And for them to take that, and also take that along with the fact she didn't have sitting there at Wings, and along with the fact that there was propane tanks, that it's like, and to not look at that and go,
Starting point is 01:16:19 we should take a little more of a look at this and just go, yep, accident. That's wild. Well, they decided to take a look into other stuff. They decided to take a real big look into why there wouldn't be any carbon oxide in the blood. Yeah, they went really hard in proving why that is all not weird at all. No, they literally did. Instead of looking the other way and going,
Starting point is 01:16:56 well, that's weird. What they did was they kept researching for some reason why this case would be different and they found their reason in a medical journal. That's, no. So the article that supported the pathologist belief that this was still accidental pointed to something called a laryngeospasm.
Starting point is 01:17:18 Essentially, in a flashfire like the one at the Hackney's house, apparently it is possible for the larynx to suddenly close off, and the airway is sealed because of the high heat. It is very, very incredibly rare, but possible. Okay. But now that Sandy had offered up what she knew and it sounded like Nick had killed Don before setting the fire and considering all of this newly found evidence,
Starting point is 01:17:44 the prosecutor's office felt like there was enough to move forward. And so a warrant for Nick's arrest was issued. Good. And the pathologist changed the concept of. Because of this, I know he did it. I know that this happened. He admitted it to me.
Starting point is 01:18:02 And then you put it along with all that stuff. It's like, okay, I know rare things can happen. That Laryngeal spasome or whatever it is. Thank you, I'm gonna say that. That can happen. And if there was another things involved, I'd be like, wow, yeah, like rare cases that happens. Right.
Starting point is 01:18:17 So when you put it next to somebody saying, no, he killed her first. Come on. Right. And how specific it was. Yeah. And like there's like newspaper and wrapping paper under her body. Right. And how specific it was. Yeah. And like, there's like newspaper and wrapping paper under her body. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:18:29 When he just told his friends that morning that they had an open Christmas gifts, yeah. Yeah. And then immediately got to the house fire and was like, Oh, we opened Christmas gifts last night. And we haven't even cleaned up. And it was pro-paint tanks. Yeah. Wild.
Starting point is 01:18:42 I think she actually might have got him pro-paint tanks for the for Christmas because I didn't see anything about him purchasing those beforehand. Oh, wild. I think she actually might have got him propane tanks for Christmas because I didn't see anything about him purchasing those beforehand. So I think that might have actually maybe been a gift, but I don't know, but maybe it was just like a... They might have already had them. Yeah. So yeah, so yeah. On the afternoon of September 12, 2001, detectives did a rustic in the parking lot of a kinkos for the murder of his wife. He immediately insisted that he had absolutely nothing to do with Don's death, and this was all a conspiracy being carried out against him by the members of Christ community church, particularly Pastor Robert.
Starting point is 01:19:19 He insisted to the investigators you have no idea what these people are capable of. Wow. But regardless of his denial, Nick was booked on a charge of first degree murder the next day and his bail was set at $750,000. Bye-bye. So the news of his arrest came as a shock to a lot of people in Bremerton and to some people, I guess, at his former congregation, but I think others were like, yeah, I saw that coming. Yeah. So for a little stretch there, at least, he was a well-respected youth pastor and a leader in his community. And now, people were portraying him as a manipulative, flandering murderer, like stark contrast there.
Starting point is 01:19:57 And one of the more unsavory facts released in the media just after his arrest was, after collecting the insurance payout from Don's policy, Nick couldn't even be fucking bothered to purchase a headstone for his wife's grave. Shut the fuck up. He took out her entire life insurance policy, got all of that money, and it wasn't much. But still, it would have been enough
Starting point is 01:20:22 to pay for a fucking headstone. Anything. Anything. Astone. Anything. Anything. A marker. Wow. It was literally like a taped piece of paper to the area. That tells you something.
Starting point is 01:20:32 Of course it does. Piece of fucking shit. And instead of spending the money on what he should have, the headstone, he quote, took several women shopping for new clothes. Yeah. Fuck this guy so hard. So hard. Now, just for the comfort of everybody's mind,
Starting point is 01:20:50 like all of us in this room and all of us out there in the world, luckily a victim's right organization did end up paying for a headstone for Don so she has that's amazing. Which like, the fact that a victim's fucking rights organization had to do that, thank goodness they exist. Yeah. What about anybody else that loved her?
Starting point is 01:21:07 Jesus fucking Christ. So some of Nick's former congregants from the Paul's Boa offshoot of Christ's community church. So it's like a sister church, I guess. I don't know. They showed up at the hearing to support him. And his lawyer tried to suggest that their showing up was evidence of Nick's reliability. Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Starting point is 01:21:26 Because he was hoping to get him released on personal reconnaissance. When I first read that, I was like, wow. So personal reconnaissance, according to Google is a release without the requirement of a posting of bail based on a written promise by the defendant to appear in court when required to do so. It's the honor system of bail. Uh, you're on trial or you're about to be for the murder of your wife.
Starting point is 01:21:51 This isn't a game of monopoly. There's no get out of jail free carder. Like I promise I'll come back. Good. Hey, just, just on your palm and shake my hand and tell me you're going to be here tomorrow. Scouts on it. Absolutely.
Starting point is 01:22:03 Like you're, you're literally sitting in this room because we think you burned your wife in a fucking house fire after suffocating her with a plastic bag and you just think that you're gonna after drugging her. After drugging her, yeah. Thank you. There was also that. Make sure you include that. So obviously the judge was unmoved to say the least. Thank goodness.
Starting point is 01:22:24 And he only reduced the bond to $500,000, which nobody was going to be able to pay to get him out. So on September 17th, Nick went before a judge where he pleaded not guilty to the charge of murder. He also, again, claimed that this entire thing was a plot against him by the former church, led by Pastor Robert. And he also claimed, are you ready?
Starting point is 01:22:44 That pastor Robert had placed a curse on him and the reach of his diabolical influence was just so much deeper than the police or anybody could possibly comprehend. You have no idea. I have been cursed. I have no idea. He is correct about that.
Starting point is 01:23:02 Oh, I have no idea. I have no idea. How you really thought in a court of law, you could look up at the judge and say, you couldn't possibly comprehend how diabolical this pastor is. He cursed me. Couldn't possibly. Sir, possibly comprehend. Sir, this is a court is what the judge said. This is a Wendy's. This is, this is better than a Wendy's. Not surprisingly, this is better than a Wendy's. Not surprisingly, the judge was not interested in talks of curses or conspiracies.
Starting point is 01:23:29 And he said, okay, trial date. November 7th, see you there, asshole. Probably a little more eloquently. Probably. Now, when Nick was in jail awaiting his trial, the Kitsap County Prosecutor's office was obviously building their case against him. In early October, Deputy Prosecutor Neil Watcher, or Watcher, excuse me, announced that they were considering changing the original
Starting point is 01:23:50 charges to aggravated first-degree murder, which meant that Nick could face life in prison without the possibility of parole. Now, the change in charges was because of the arson of it all. The prosecutor's office was considering it, an aggravating factor. And that charge also meant that if he were guilty, Nick would have been eligible for the death penalty. Damn. But prosecutor Russ, how, I think it is,
Starting point is 01:24:18 assured the press that they weren't gonna go for the death penalty. Now as part of their investigation, Jesus Christ, I keep saying Jesus Christ through that, and it's very ironic, because I know, I don't know if I usually say that. I was gonna say, because I don't even think usually.
Starting point is 01:24:32 No, I just come to me in the moment. It's happening. It's a vision. But the prosecutor started collecting testimony from the women that Nick was having a fairs way that the time. Three of those women were willing to give testimony, but one of them named Nicole
Starting point is 01:24:46 was now engaged to Nick. They had gotten engaged. And she was refusing to cooperate. Nick and Nicole actually were planning to get married and then move to Tennessee at the time that he was arrested. They were already planning it when he was arrested, but they were planning to move to Tennessee. So the prosecutor's office was like, no, don't reduce his fucking bail. Yeah. And they also had to get a court order to compel her testimony.
Starting point is 01:25:15 And they were like, yeah, like he's got to run away to Tennessee and complicate this whole case further, do not let him out. And luckily, at the final bail hearing in late October, the judge agreed with them. And the bail was left at 500,000. And he said killing of a wife is one of the most serious crimes in our system of justice. Yeah. You're not just going to be able to go away for that. Oh. So fall turned over to winter. And Nick's trial date kept getting pushback for like different reasons, the prosecutors and the defense team were arguing over what was going to be
Starting point is 01:25:47 admissible, what wasn't. But the gist is that the defense didn't want most of the affairs to be discussed because they claimed that they didn't start until after Dawn had died, which that's not true. And that's like we can create a tiny one. So they were like they can't be used as a motive. What's the point in talking about it? Shut up. It's like a character, like maybe. And then relating to Sandy and Nick's whole affair,
Starting point is 01:26:10 they couldn't argue that it was going on while Don was still alive. Like it absolutely was. So they just argued that her testimony was questionable because she was a woman's scorned. Oh yeah, okay. So the prosecution obviously fought both of those claims. And they said even if the affairs hadn't started until after Don's death, Nick was still counseling all of these women murdered Don to quote unquote, free himself
Starting point is 01:26:46 up for this. It's so gross. So the judge, Superior Court judge, Anna Laurie, decided with, excuse me, sided with the prosecution and noted that Nick, quote, had romantic attachments in the form of flirting hugs, physical contact and intimate conversations with several women prior to the death. And these relationships were sexually consummated once he was freed of the confines of his marriage. Wow. Yeah. So a few more delays after a few more delays Nick finally went on actual trial on November 4th, 2002. In his opening statement the deputy prosecutor Neil
Starting point is 01:27:24 fourth 2002. In his opening statement, the deputy prosecutor, Neil watched her, told the jury, in the early morning hours of December 26, 1997, Nick had drugged his wife with a toxic dose of Benadryl, placed a plastic bag over her head and suffocated her until she had died. Then, to cover up the murder, he scattered and arranged a large number of flammable items around the room, precariously close to a faulty space heater, which he turned on and then left for a previously planned hunting trip with his friends, which he was fully intending to use as his alibi. Damn.
Starting point is 01:27:56 And they argued, obviously, again, that he did all of this to free himself up to have relationships with all these other women. And not only that, but because he had put himself in Don in a shit ton of debt from his church activities and the home renovation, so he hoped to cash in on the life insurance policy to remedy all those financial troubles. This is so chaos.
Starting point is 01:28:17 It's so messed. And they also said in their opening statements, how he couldn't even use that money to buy a headstone for his wife. And how he spent a lot of it on women he was having affairs with. Yeah. Now Mark Yelish, the defense attorney there,
Starting point is 01:28:33 claimed of course that quote, the initial investigation was right. It was an accidental flashfire like the medical examiner said it was. Wow. Sure. He said he tried to obviously put doubt in the minds of the jury telling them that the prosecutor's office had to suggest otherwise was one jealous witness.
Starting point is 01:28:53 That's all they had to point away from this. Yeah, obviously. It's ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous. So the prosecution called all four women that Nick was having affairs with around the time of Don's death to testify. And it was through these women that the jury learned about the heavy influence that the church had on their lives. And they also heard all about the visions and direct messages people claim to have from God, that played a role in Don's death. Yeah. And how Nick used those visions as messages for justification and manipulation.
Starting point is 01:29:27 Lindsay there, formerly Lindsay Smith, she was married now, but she told the jury about how she had met Nick through her father, PB, and how she'd been groomed by Nick as a teenager. Oh, just after Don died, they did engage in a sexual relationship, And that happened until she actually finally left the area about a year later. Oh man. And the prosecution also introduced into evidence a large number of sexually explicit emails between Nick and Lindsay that contained quote, a mix of protestations of love, fantasies about sexual contact yet to come, and attempts to explain to one another how God could allow what they were doing. Wow. I can't.
Starting point is 01:30:12 Like, can you hear the blink blink? I cannot. So some of the more important testimony came from the pathologist, Dr. Emmanuel LaCena, who had performed the original autopsy on Don. Now, like we know, his original report concluded, quote, a spasm in the woman's larynx when a flash fire engulfed in her bedroom must be the explanation for absence in her lungs
Starting point is 01:30:34 or carbon monoxide in her blood, that's a quote. But when he was informed by the police that they suspected Don had been murdered, he changed the results of the autopsy when he learned about more of the details. Yeah. Meaning, the change was purely on the circumstances, not new evidence. So that was a little tricky.
Starting point is 01:30:54 Ah, I was going to say that I can get a little hairy. It got a little hairy because the defense obviously used this to their advantage. Yeah. And they said, well, would you change your results if it turned out that Sandy's story was proven false? Yeah, would you like flip it back? And he said, yes, I would. So the defense pushed even further. And they said, does having a bag over one's head,
Starting point is 01:31:14 like, would that cause a violent reaction? But this backfired when the doctor noted that absolutely it would cause a violent reaction? Kind of question is that. But only if a person is fully conscious and at the time of her death, Dawn had been drugged to the point of sluggishness, which meant that she couldn't put up a fight. Exactly.
Starting point is 01:31:33 So I think what they were trying to do there is say, if he put a bag over her head, why didn't she fight back? And he was like, uh, because she had five times the normal dose of benedral in her system and was immobilized. He had drug turrets, idiots. They did everything they possibly could, the defense to undermine the state's evidence against their client. But it was sandy glass that the defense attorney pushed the hardest.
Starting point is 01:31:57 The case against Nick obviously rested a lot on Sandy's statement to the police that Nick had confessed to her. So they were determined to frame her as this jealous ex-lover who wanted revenge when she found out about all these other women, of course. And they pointed to the fact that Sandy never warned anybody about Nick
Starting point is 01:32:16 before going to the police, which is true. And the fact that she waited years before reporting about a murder. Yeah. So the defense attorney asked her, you never warned your good friend a net and didn't you have any fear of him yourself and a net was one of the women he was having an affair with.
Starting point is 01:32:32 So that's the crazier thing. A lot of the women that he was having affairs with were friends. I know, that's wild. And like, if you read Twisted Fate, it goes a lot more into their relationships with one another. Yeah. And I think what got Sandy to the point of being like, this is wrong and I can't believe I've been going along with it for this long. Oh man, this is so messy.
Starting point is 01:32:54 It is. But so he said, you never warned anybody and you weren't scared yourself. So obviously suggesting she was lying. Yeah. Now finally, he got at what he had been employing all along. And he said, by accusing Mr. Hackney of murder, haven't you changed your role in the relationship as a victim that you were manipulated by a murderer?
Starting point is 01:33:13 So he's like, you're just trying to rewrite history here. He trying to point to the fact that she herself was involved in this affair and could have been involved in this murder. And now it's like, oh no, no, I'm the victim. And I want to believe that Sandy didn't know about the murder. I also want to believe that. So that's what I'll believe for you.
Starting point is 01:33:34 But anyway, the trial lasted nearly two months until finally, on December 26, 2002, which was super eerie because it was five years to the day since time had been discovered. The jury retired for deliberation. They deliberated for less than a day and ended up signing with the prosecution and found Nick Hackney guilty of aggravated first degree murder. In his statement to the press, prosecutor Neil Watchdor said, we are extremely gratified by the verdict and we are happy they could reach the only common sense verdict here.
Starting point is 01:34:07 Yeah. Now on February 7th, 2003, Nick Hackney returned to Superior Court where he was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility for parole. Damn. And after the sentence was passed, Nick obviously was allowed to make a statement and he did the whole... I'm innocent, I loved my wife, I did bad things but I'm a good man. And he told the courtroom, which included Don's parents and family. I didn't murder Don. There are a lot of things that I regret that I wish I could take back and undo. I'm sorry for the pain of going through this trial and losing your daughter. Don was kind and beautiful and true. She deserved better than me.
Starting point is 01:34:46 I loved her with all my heart. No, the fuck you didn't. I'm going to call bullshit on that. You don't place a plastic bag after drugging your wife over her head and then light your entire house on fire when you love that person. Yeah, you don't know I can confirm that. And uh, Don's father was absolutely pissed that that was a statement. Yeah. And he jumped up and yelled at Nick, then why didn't you even buy a headstone for her? Good. And then her brother Derek was equally pissed and added, you don't know when to give up. And like they were just like yelling at him. The judge was about to call the rim back into the into order, but they both just left. I'm glad they're both like, you're fucking worthless.
Starting point is 01:35:27 Yeah, I'm glad. See you never. And I think the fact, I like, I think they should be able to respond to that statement. Because that's an absurd statement. It is. And I'm glad that they got to. Yeah. Now, unfortunately, any comfort found in Nick's conviction was a little bit undermined in the spring of 2007, when the state Supreme Court sided with him on an appeal that nixed his mandatory life sentence, which then sent him back to court for resentencing. Essentially, what Nick's team argued was that the jury was not properly instructed on the aggravating factor thing.
Starting point is 01:36:07 Because Dawn was already dead since Nick had suffocated her, the fire happened after the murder, and technically they were arguing it wasn't an aggravated factor during the course of murder because she was already dead. I don't know how you find that loophole. Sometimes these little loopholes are like really. But it worked. With the appeal, he was still convicted of murder, but because it wasn't technically aggravated murder, the life sentence was thrown out. And he was resentenced to 26 years in prison. I love that they were like, it wasn't aggravated murder because he didn't burn her alive.
Starting point is 01:36:48 He just did that. He just put a bag over her head after drugging her. So that's not really aggravated. No, it's just murder. Yeah, it's just straight up murdering. Just murdering her. Oh, okay. So that means he could get out
Starting point is 01:36:57 within like the next several years. That's awesome. And that is the tragic life of the murder of a beautiful, beautiful soul. I know, like if you look at pictures of her, she just seems like such a sweet kind, beautiful soul. You are better than everyone in this story, except to your friend Eunice and like,
Starting point is 01:37:18 a few of the supporting people, everyone. Yeah, she is better than all of these people. You deserve a lot better. She did. And the fact that life didn't give it to her pisses me off. Yeah. That sucks. It does. It was a really tragic case to research. But again, I really, really recommend that book Twisted Faith. I was, it's a fucking page turner. Yeah, it sounds wild. Yeah. And you can get it on the Kindle if you want, if you if you like to do that. You can get it on the Kindle everybody. You can get it on the Kindle, you can get a hot coffee, it's available.
Starting point is 01:37:47 It's available, you can just read it. Yeah, it's available, I'll link it in the show now. Oh my God, that story. Kuku Netsu Banana. And just senseless and so sad and ridiculous. Like the visions and all that. Yeah, it's just too much. It really is.
Starting point is 01:38:03 That's what it is, it's too much. So we need to go have a palette clinic. Yeah, it's just too much. There's a lot. Yeah, that's what it is. It's too much. So we need to go have a palette. Yeah, for real. Yeah, all right. Well, guys, we love you. We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it. We're not so weird that any of this
Starting point is 01:38:18 just go hug some on and touch grass. Yes, do all that. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen-free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.

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