Morbid - Episode 475: Denise Huber- Part 2

Episode Date: July 10, 2023

In Part 2, we talk through the killer’s background and troubling history with women in his life. We also go through Denise’s horrific injuries, as well as the investigation and trial that followed. Thank you to the stupendous David White for research assistance.ReferencesAssociated Press. 1994. "No bail for suspect in bizarre slaying." Arizona Daily Sun, July 21: 10.Cekola, Anna. 1997. "For Hubers, relief at 'a step in justice, anticipation of next one." Los Angeles Times,May 23: A24.Dobruck, Jeremiah. 2016. "The wound that never heals." Los Angeles Times, July 1.Gomez, James. 1991. "Banner used in search for woman." Los Angeles Times, July 3: 129.—. 1991. "Denise Huber probably dead, investigator says." Los Angeles Times, October 10: 214.—. 1991. "Hope keeps a search alive." Los Angeles Times, June 27: 224.Gomez, James, and Eric Lichtblau. 1991. "Was missing woman victim of foul play." Los Angeles Times,June 6: 227.Hernandez, Greg. 1997. "Famalaro defense charges witness is biased ." Los Angeles Times, February 22:309.—. 1997. "Famalaro defense rests after trying to refute special circumstances." Los Angeles Times, May21: B4.—. 1997. "Famalaro judge unswayed by argument denying kidnapping." Los Angeles Times, May 15: B3.—. 1997. "Famalaro jury told that the victim had drinks." Los Angeles Times, May 20: B1.—. 1997. "Famalaro quickly convicted in Huber sex murder case." Los Angeles Times, May 23: 1.—. 1997. "Killer who froze body sentenced to die." Los Angeles Times, September 6: A24.—. 1997. "Prosecutor describes stranded motorist's last hours." Los Angeles Times, May 9: A3.—. 1997. "Unraveling mysteries of Huber case." Los Angeles Times, April 21: 53.Ko, Mimi. 1992. "Daughter is gone, then cancer hits." Los Angeles Times, November 7: 220.Lasseter, Don. 1998. Cold Storage: A Killer with a Heart of Ice. New York, NY: Pinnacle Books.Lindsbaum, Mark. 1991. "Impasse in search from woman doesn't shake faith." Los Angeles Times,September 8: 408.Los Angeles Times. 1991. "Abandoned car on freeway spurs search for Newport Beach woman." LosAngeles Times, June 5: 107.Pinsky, Mark. 1995. "Famalaro trial delayed until next April." Los Angeles Times, April 11: 136.Reza, H.G., and Tammy Hyunjoo Kresta. 1994. "Body is identified as Denise Huber." Los Angeles Times,July 17: 137.Tabor, Gail. 1994. "Parents' search ends." Arizona Republic, July 18: 1.The People vs. John Famalaro. 2011. S064306 (Supreme Court of California, July 7).The People vs. John Famalaro. 2007. S064306 (Supreme Court of the State of California, April 11).Villa, Judy, and David Schwartz. 1994. "Police fear other victims in home where freezer held woman'scorpse." Arizona Republic, July 18: 1.Wilgoren, Jodi. 1994. "Famalaro faces sex charges in Huber slaying." Los Angeles Times, September 30:136.Yokoi, Iris. 1992. "Family of missing woman still hopeful." Los Angeles Times, June 3: 102.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening to a Moved Network podcast. Hey, Weirdo's Um-Ash and I'm doing okay. I had a very nice weekend. I'm sorry to say that to you because I should not have a nice weekend. I had a, I'll, I'll, here, we'll get mine over with. Yeah. The years was beautiful and I should have stayed with you. I had a very nice weekend with John and the little gals. We just had fun. We played board games. We watched movies. We played outside. It was just like a very nice. We did some fun things.

Full. And I wrote a lot, which is always like, just feeds my soul when I get to do that. I swear. Are you like an author? You're like an author. I still, that's still wild. You are.

I know it's still wild. That's selling even. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. But, and I was also listening to an audiobook that was really good whenever I could.

Oh, really? It is, it's one that I've already like read the hard cover of, but I'm just revisiting. It's Stephen King's on writing. And it's him talking about like the writing process and talks about his life and how he became a writer and like his Do's and Don'ts and it's like and it's The audiobook is narrated by him. Oh, I always love that and

He reminded me that I need to be a little more. I say like he reminded me like we're I'm manifesting here. I'm manifesting being friends with Stephen King. I'm shaking my coffee and I'm sorry if you hear it. That's part of the manifestation process. She shakes her coffee around. Sorry about it. Sorry, it's just what shit. Okay. So, but he he reminded me that I need I've been trying to get into routines better because I thrive in a routine. Me too. But this last year has been a tough year.

It hasn't been a great year. It's been how you say shitty. It's been, it's honestly to put it lightly. It's been very shitty. But it's been, you know, things have been. Yeah, and things have been like, you know, we've been vibing a lot better lately, like everywhere and every part of our lives.

Yeah, reclaiming our power. Yeah, exactly. And so I've been trying to get back. I fell out of a lot of routines during all of that. Yeah. I am no good without a routine or a deadline. I know you little cap you over there. Yeah.

So, you know, Stephen, Mr. King, if you will, he reminded me that you need to be strict on yourself when it comes to writing and you need to write every single day probably around the same time and the right in the same place. That makes sense. That's what it works for him. Well, that's how you got your first book done. That's the thing. And I was doing that and I was really rolling. So I got myself back in that routine and I was like, I'm going to do this and I feel so

fucking good. I feel like alive. Well, I want to start working out more in the morning before we start. So I feel like I can have my little workout time. You can have your writing time. There you go. And we'll just meet and then record a cool episode. We'll meet with beautiful thriving minds. Yes.

And bodies and souls. My therapist told me the three most important things to maintain a healthy mind are getting enough sleep at night, most important things to maintain a healthy mind are getting enough sleep at night, cooking at home, cooking for yourself, and exercising. And she was not going crazy, but just like 30 minutes of exercise a day. Like go for a walk, just fucking climb some stairs, I don't know. So far I've got like one out of those three, so I'm good. I don't even know if I have one out of those three right now.

I'm like, take out, sit on the couch. Don't do anything good for your mind, because I'm in a state of sad. Yeah, I've had a rough weekend. Yeah, never fly across the country for someone you think is your friend when they're not your friend. That's all I'll say. I don't do that.

Yeah, not great. Yeah, I feel across the country was gonna like celebrate somebody, put a whole lot of shit into it, and didn't get a whole lot of shit out of it. But you know, live you learn. Yeah, I think the universe was just like, hey, maybe you don't need certain people in your life anymore. She's always, she's always a... Teaching.

She is. And I feel bad, maybe I just accidentally took all of your happy weekend. So I apologize for that. That's okay. No, you know what I mean? I'll share the wealth. I kept thinking like, is this a decision I should make? Like, should I do this? And whenever you're second guessing yourself,

you always trust your gut. Yeah. I'm not good at that, so I'm preaching something that I don't always do, but I always want to do afterwards because I always regret not listening to my tummy. You and I were saying at this morning, it's like, we're both kind of introverts. Like, I've used to be such an extrovert,

but over the past couple of years, I feel like I've become a little more introverted, but I think because I'm happy with my home life. Yeah. So I was like, maybe I need to like get out there and like do things and like show myself I can have fun. Then I was like, whoa. You're like, wait, fun.

I am having fun, just a different kind of fun. Yeah, I came home and I said to Drew. I was like, you're my fun. Oh, Drew, Drew's my fun too. Yeah, he's so fun. I love Drew. I love it. I like our little bubble that we have like you, John Drew, a couple of other friends out there on the outside. But like, you know what I learned in like the first couple weeks of 27, Keep your mother fucking circle small. Yeah, you know? It's, you know? You know?

I know, you know? I don't know. Well, you know, that was our weekends. I hope you guys, I hope you guys had more of a, a my weekend if like a happy weekend, I suppose. And you know what, we're gonna get Ash right the fuck out of that shitty weekend. And into a great week. Fantastic. Not with this case, but like we're gonna get Ash right the fuck out of that shitty weekend. And into a great week.

Fantastic. Not with this case, but we're gonna do it in other ways. No, we're gonna do something with the kids tomorrow that's gonna be fun. That honestly feeds my soul. I think I've just really moved on to a different part of life. They will feed your soul all day, I'm okay.

I'm ready to just hang out with your kids, have my own kids, just fucking vile. Oh, it's the best. Yeah. It's so much fun. Build in friends. They make you feel great. They do make me really do.

This morning, the hugs I got, oh my God. I've been trying it, I mean, oh bitch. Well, I guess, yes, I hope you guys had a great weekend and here we go. My loves. Because we gotta do part two here. Yeah.

And it's gonna get a little rough. And I think this case is really, really simple. Yeah, I think I should tell you right off the bat, it's gonna get a little tough to listen to. Yeah. But there is, you know, this case involves sexual assault. No. And it involves a very gruesome attack.

And this guy's just dick. And, okay, you just start before I start asking questions, okay? Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. So in case you are just coming here, we are in part two of the murder, the kidnapping and murder of Denise Huber. When we last left you, police investigators had found that chest freezer. Yes. In John Fomolaro's rented rider truck that he had stolen. Yep.

And had kept for months and months. Many, many, many months. And they were like, oh, yeah, that is missing. Yes. And when they had opened the freezer, they'd found a body inside. They were fairly certain that this was the body of missing Denise Huber. So that is where we left you. We're going to move right on to where the investigation began.

So the body was transported to the Medical Examiner's office, and that's where at first an external examination was conducted. This was done by Dr. Ann Buckholz, who was the medical examiner at the time. Denise's head had been wrapped in three white kitchen garbage bags. Oh my God, it's gruesome. When they removed all of those garbage bags, you could see that her entire head had been covered in gray tape.

What? Quote from the mouth to the upper eyelids. Jesus. Now, Dr. Buckholz noted that the head had many external injuries to it. The skull was what they referred to as basically shattered. Wow. Horrifically, there was also noted to be a number of curved

and oval-shaped lacerations and through these lacerations, brain tissue was visible. Oh, my God. That's how bad this was. There were also fragments of the white plastic bags that were embedded in these fractures in the skull, which indicated that the bags had been put over Denise's head before the injuries were inflicted. What?

Because they had gone into the wounds. Oh. They ended up reconstructing her skull and they showed that there was at least 31 separate injuries to her skull. Holy shit. 31 separate injuries. This guy is a monster.

And Dr. Buckholz noted that there was probably many more than the 31 because there was fractures on top of fractures. What? It was a frenzied, horrific, horrifically brutal assault. And I think you said last time that he didn't even know her. Yeah. Now, the cause of death was determined to be blunt, forced, trauma to the head.

I would think. There would have been a lot of bleeding when this happened. And the thing is outside of this, there didn't appear to be a lot of evidence of trauma anywhere else on the body. Okay. It seemed like it was very focused on her head, which is horrifying. At first, there didn't seem to be evidence of sexual assault, and they were hoping that there wasn't.

What they said was, although Dr. Buckhold stated that a sexual assault and they were hoping that there wasn't. What they said was, although Dr. Buckhold stated that a sexual assault can occur without trauma to the vaginal region, they didn't see any initially. So they had to allow Denise's body to basically thaw out before they could do all the tests. They needed to because remember she's been frozen for years at this point. So when that time came, they did do additional swabs. They took. And when they came back, the, and this is really graphic, I'm sorry, the anal swabs were

positive for the presence of some degraded semen. Oh my. So she was raped. Yeah. Now, the medical examiner also took prints from the body and they submitted them for processing. They came back two days later, indicating that the body was that of missing Newport Beach woman, Denise Huber.

So it was officially confirmed, right? They were pretty sure right off the bat, but the discovery came back as so heartbreaking and shocking for Denise's family, her friends, lone Huber, her mother, told reporters, it's not the answer we wanted, but at least we got it. Because remember, they've been going through years for this.

Of nothing. Of absolutely nothing. No leads. They didn't even get a chance to run down anything. And hit a brick wall, they had nothing. It was just brick wall after brick wall, right off the bat.

Just like random tips coming in that we're going nowhere. Yeah. So obviously this is not what they want to hear. This is not the outcome they're looking for. Of course you're always hoping your daughter or son or child is going to be found alive, but they were trying to prepare themselves for the worst. And at least now they know.

At least now they know that she is not out there still waiting to be found. And she can be laid to rest. Yeah. Now, Costa Mesa detectives were also very, very dismayed by this news. Sergeant Jerry Holloway said, this may be the end to one of this department's biggest frustrations ever, I would think. Because again, it's not like this was one of those things

where they just had lead after lead and they didn't pan out. No. They had nothing. So this is for it to end this way, is like a slap in the face. Like it really is, it's just like, all of it came crashing down at once. ["The End of the World"]

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The discovery of Denise's body may have brought the search to a very, very tragic conclusion, but it did open up a whole new part of the case because everyone involved wanted to know who the fuck is this guy? Who did this to her? Who is this man? And how did she wind up nearly 400 miles away from where she was last seen?

Like what happened here? That's exactly all of my questions. Yeah, Sergeant Holloway told reporters, we could not link him to the investigation before today. That's so strange to me. That's so strange to me. And investigators in Arizona luckily obtained a search warrant and they'd begun digging through

Farmalaros House in Dewey, which had belonged to his father until his death. OK. So the search of his home was pretty tough and pretty intense because it was covered in trash and clutter. By the time they were done, they had collected over 100,000 items from the home. What the fuck? Yep. And many of them were crucial to the investigation. Like in the garage, they discovered two boxes labeled Christmas. In those boxes, they found several black garbage bags, like the one Denise's body had been wrapped in.

Several of Denise's belongings, personal belongings, were in boxes labeled Christmas. Her wallet, her checkbook, her car keys, her purse, her lipstick, her ID, everything she had on her. Several of the items appeared to be blood stained as well. Another box had the clothing she had been wearing the night she disappeared in it. Her jacket, her dress, her underwear, her high heels.

The dress appeared to have been torn around the left shoulder and the shoes had, quote, severe scrapes on the back of both heels as if she was dragged, perhaps. Oh my. And the tip of one heel had been broken off. Now also in the box with Denise's clothing was a blood stained hammer, a blood stained pair of men's jeans, a blood stained sweatshirt, dried blood soaked drags, and a pair of surgical

gloves turned inside out. Who the fuck is this guy? And the fact that he kept all of that, like he even kept the surgical gloves. I was just gonna say even the gloves. Like just took them off how you would normally like inside out and through the mailbox. And like just kept that in his house for,

it's been three years at this point. He had kept it like he had kept these for years at this point. That is so disturbing. And a third box was found in the garage as well. And these contained the empty box for the handcuffs that were used to secure Denise's hands behind her back. He kept the box. So he kept like, I think you had said it last time.

He kept like multiple, multiple, so many items to look back at it. It also had a blood-stained nail puller, which if you look that up, what? More bloody rags, a roll of duct tape and white plastic garbage bags, like the ones that were wrapped around Denise's head. When you say nail puller,

you mean like construction nail puller. What was that giant? It's like a giant crowbar looking thing with a slit in it to yank the nails out? Oh my God. It sounds like he used many things to kill her with. He's a fucking monster. Oh, he's a fucking monster.

Seriously. This is another unfortunate instance where the guy named John is a shipbag. Damn it. Now inside the house, they found more of what they needed to tie him to Denise and her body. In the house, they found the receipt for the freezer, which showed that it had been purchased in June 10, 1991, which was a week after Denise had disappeared. Wow.

They also found the handcuffs keys inside a desk drawer. And what is even more horrific is the fact that they found a ton of issues of the Orange County register, which was a newspaper. And all of them had featured stories about Denise's disappearance. They also found a videotape of the episode of Inside Edition that featured a segment of Denise's disappearance. He taped it.

And this one had a whole segment about the search that had gone, undergone to find her, like with her family on it, her parents upset. I was talking animal. Had the fuck, had taped it on a videotape and had saved articles about her disappearance. What happened to this man to like, like what? Like this isn't one of those things where you're like,

oh, like, you know, like he needs, of course he needs to be locked away, but like this seemed like it was like a snap or something like that, you know what I mean? Like nothing's ever, you know, validating it, but like you're like, wow, this is just one of those instances where someone like lost it.

Right. He saved everything. And then had a videotape where he could watch her family and friends and the investigators missing her and trying to find her. What? And articles about the disappearance with quotes from her parents, with quotes from her family and friends. Like, this is so disturbing.

He's a fucking demon, truly. And just found her by half an stance. Yeah. And so, back in Costa Mesa, investigators began digging into his history. And they started paying particular attention to his life around the time that Denise disappeared in 1991.

And that year, he was working as a commercial painter and had been living and working out of a warehouse space in Laguna Beach, California. Okay. So, of course they went straight to that warehouse space. Yeah. Crime scene technicians found evidence of blood spatter on the wall and floor in the corner of the warehouse. So he did this in his place of work. When technicians removed the piece of drywall, of that piece in the like wood framing, they found a huge blood stain behind the wall

that was described as quote, a thick, deep, maroon color. Oh my God. And nobody had ever discovered that before. In a corner of this warehouse in Laguna Beach, California. And nobody ever saw that and reported it. Because this stain was behind the drywall. Oh, that's a thing they ripped out the drywall. Now his defense lawyer, Larry Katz,

maintained that his client was innocent. Uh, yep. Uh, and called the case against him entirely circumstantial. And called the case against him entirely circumstantial. Her all of her belongings, her body, everything, yep, was in his possession. What is circumstantial about him having a dead body on his property? Yeah. Why?

He told reporters, I have every confidence in my clients innocence. Somebody should have said, look me in the eyes and say that. Like, look me in the eyes and say that. Like, look me in the eyes. Are you kidding me? Yeah. And yeah, it's, and he also said that Famelaro was quote, appropriately depressed about the situation.

He, oh yeah, he's like super bummed that this happened. Yep. But he also insisted that his client not speak to anyone, which I bet. I bet pretty bold. I'm shocked by that. Like, just hearing this man be like, and I understand that's his job, I get it. But it is shocking to hear all of that evidence.

She was found there. On his property. The receipt for the freezer that she was found in was found there. Well, the box for the handcuffs that are on her body currently when they found her is in his house. And I'm sorry, but all of her belonging. All of her belong. And it's circumstantial about like, that's why I'm like, even being found in her body. And he did he look up the definition of circumstantial? Like a little confused.

That with a case like as Nari, like the way that she was found, when you go for your like insanity at the very least? Truth. Rather than circumstantial. But I think honestly you couldn't go for insanity because it would be hard because of that taped inside edition thing, all the newspapers like that shows that he didn't find what he did wrong.

He liked it. He sat there and watched, he sat there and watched her family cry about it. Oh my God. On a videotape. I don't like circumstantial is not the way to go. Oh my God, truly. Like there's no way to go here. Now, I suppose we have to tell you about John Fomawaro.

Well, I just want to know what the fuck. Fuck. He is. So he was born June 10th, 1957 in Long Island, New York. So he bought the freezer on his birthday. What the fuck? It gets more and more horrifying, the more you go into it. Yeah.

What? And killed her a week before her birthday, his birthday. And then went on his birthday, purchased the freezer. And that was his birthday. That is unreal. Yeah. He was the youngest of three children. His parents were in an Angela from Alaro.

According to John, we always have to take their thing. His mother was quote, the dominant force in the family. While his father was pretty passive and tolerated her demands and verbal abuse, which could absolutely be true, but this is just coming from him. A year after John was born, the family moved from Long Island to Santa Ana because his father had been sent

to establish a manufacturing plant in Garden Grove, California. The children, which included his brother Warren and sister Marion, were really, really close to their father. They had a very loving relationship by all accounts. They really got along. Okay. Their relationship with their mother was...

Not so weird. That's where, according to them, they said it was a very erratic, it was a very tense relationship, not a good one, not a loving one. According to all the children, including his siblings, the mother was very difficult,

very confrontational, and she was very controlling. She was also a devout Catholic, which in and of itself, I'm not saying is a bad trait, but she was, because of that, she was very, and she was like very devout. So she was very preoccupied with saving their souls. Okay. And would use that as justification for abusing them physically and emotionally.

And that's the bad part of that kind of deboutness. And the children also said that they got isolated a lot from other children really. Like they didn't get to play with other children a lot. They were isolated from kids at church, but then those who knew them around this time said that the children seemed very focused and very well behaved, which I say,

sure, I'm sure they were very focused and very well behaved, they had an abusive mother. Exactly, they were usually those kind of kids are trying to keep it together, so they don't get hurt. Exactly. Now, apparently the outside of the home looked very neat and clean and tidy.

No one would have ever thought that something was going on inside, totally different story. According to the children, the inside was cluttered, trash, food, magazines, everything, newspapers, just things stacked everywhere. And they acknowledged that this was also something that their maternal grandmother had done. So it seemed like this was just something that came down the family line kind of thing. It's a thing. Oh, this kind of thing.

They also said that their mother was very paranoid, like very paranoid. And she also had this like obsessive like kind of doomsday thing where she thought they had to like hoard things because like the end was coming. Now, when the children became adolescents, she also got very preoccupied with sex. Oh, no, I had a feeling it was a bit there. And there wasn't very productive or very healthy discussions about sex in that household.

She even bathed them personally into their preteen years. She was a little strange with her behavior for bedtime, according to the children. Oh, hmm. And years later, Warren Fomolaro, what the brother, would be convicted of sexually assaulting three children and serve a sentence in a facility

for mentally disordered sex offenders. Yeah. So something was going on. Absolutely. That's really sad. That did not help them become healthy adults. Now, as a teen and young adult, John Famoaro developed a lot of unhealthy coping skills.

He liked everything to be very symmetrical and it was like an obsessive kind of like everything needs to be symmetrical and he would also go into bursts of energy and hyperactivity and then depression. So he seemed like he had unhealthy coping skills because he was not diagnosed with whatever was clearly going on here.

Like, I'm not gonna diagnose him, I don't know. But there's clearly something going on that should have been diagnosed and treated so that he could form healthy coping skills. And he didn't get that. Oh, this is a lot. So he got, when he was like, you know, in his teen years and stuff, he was bullied a lot because of these kind of things. Right. And he would get in trouble a lot at school because of that.

So after graduating from high school, he attended a Catholic Liberal Arts College. And now that he was away from his mother, it did seem like he was getting better at his social skills, starting to, you know, I think the she was really keeping him at that level. Unfortunately, he did find college to not be super easy or tolerable for him. Retweet. And after enrolling in and dropping out of several schools and classes, he just stopped before completing it. Try it free for 30 days. Yeah, just enough time to try it and then completely forget about it. In fact, over 80% of people have subscriptions that they've forgot about. Are you one of those people? Yeah?

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That's rocketmoney.com slash morbid. Rocketmoney.com slash morbid. Now as an adult, there seemed like there was like two sides of him. Yeah, like John Fomolaro, like people knew two different things. On one hand, friends remember him being very funny, an intelligent guy, very, very polite is what he was described as. But then other people saw him as very secretive, a little manipulative. He could be like a two charming,

like a smooth talker kind of thing, like a snake oil salesman kind of vibe. Yeah. So it seems like he had two very distinct sides of himself that he would show at any given moment whatever helped him at the time. He is a gem and a yeah, there you go. Now there was also a dark side to his personality

that investigators found while interviewing his former girlfriends. Oh, no. Because according to one former girlfriend, I'm not gonna say her name. She and John had taken a trip to New York City in 1987 and they were like play fighting one morning, like as couples do, like just, ooh, you know.

Yeah. But then John took it like too far and he stripped her of her clothes and handcuffed her to a window in the hotel room. What? Then left her there for several hours alone, handcuffed. When he came back later, he was laughing, being like, this is hilarious.

Like thought this was a funny game. And she was like clearly terrified and traumatized. That is so insane. I guess after they left this trip and went back to California, they immediately broke up. She was like, bye. Yeah. They did reconcile in 1991, which is the year that Denise went missing.

But they didn't reconcile as a couple. They just like, talked it out. Yeah. a couple. They just like talked it out. Yeah. And they became, they like remained friends after he moved to Arizona in 1992. Okay. But court records indicate that John also took photographs of her during this whole thing. She said she doesn't remember this at all because she was so traumatized that I think she just blocked it out. Yeah, like PTSD. But in another incident that occurred in March of 1989, John was dating another woman. And according to court records,

she stopped by his house one afternoon just to visit. And she tried to leave his house once the visit was over. And John, quote, pushed her onto the bed, causing her back shoulder and head to hit a bookcase. When she was down, he forced her hands above her head and handcuffed her to the bed, causing her back shoulder and head to hit a bookcase. When she was down, he forced her hands above her head and handcuffed her to the bedframe. Then he removed her closing against her wishes forcibly and indicated his intent to rape her. It was only after she had started screaming, as loud as she could, and saying that she was going to report him that he released the handcuffs and let her leave.

But when he when she left, he called her a bitch and said, you're the one that brought this on. Oh, yeah, because that's how that works. Yeah. So he's a fucking foul. He is an animal. Apparently later when they had talked about this because they broke up, but they had talked about it. And I guess he'd said to her that she just obviously didn't know mature sex games. And I'm like, honey, get a grip.

Seriously. Get a grip. Like I don't think you know about mature and conceptual. So I don't think you know what being a human is. No. Now in late 1992, John moved to Arizona to help his mom because, which like, whoa, because she was caring for his ailing father.

Okay. And remember, he did have a good relationship with his father. Right. And he actually kept living in the house with his mother after his father died. Oh, I can't imagine that was good for his health. And those kind of relationships,

those parent child relationships when they are like that, sometimes they just cling. Continue. You know what I mean? Like the person will continue it. Exactly. Now, that is John Fomolaro. Wow. What a story. Yeah. And on July 20th, 1994, after he had been arrested, John Fomolaro appeared before judge for the first time. At the hearing authorities testified that the extent of Denise's wounds were just unmentionable, and they called the repeated blows to the head, heinous and depraved. And they said all of this means that it

mourns the death penalty, which would automatically disqualify him from receiving bail. Now his defense attorney, Laurie Katz there, he argued that the evidence was entirely circumstantial, it's substantial, and since he had no history of violence, what? He was not a flight risk. I disagree.

The judge was like, no. The judge was like, yeah. Did you read this case? Yeah, he was like, did you just walk in here? Like just wake up, come in here, not knowing anything. Like did you talk to the words? But he was denied bail and returned back to jail. Thankfully.

So his bail hearing began a series of hearings and delays that dragged this case on for several years before it even reached the criminal trial phase. So in late August, Famelolaro waved extradition and was transported from Arizona to Orange County, California. And he was then put in the Orange County jail to await his arrangement. Okay.

On September 26, 1994, he appeared before an Orange County grand jury. It was during this hearing that the prosecution announced the attachment of special circumstances to the murder trial. Right. They said that Denise Hubers' death occurred during her kidnapping, which would make him eligible

for the death penalty. In total, he was indicted on one charge of kidnapping, one charge of murder with special circumstances, and one count of sodomy. Now, he was no longer being represented by Larry Katz at this point. I wonder why? Because Larry was like, oh, this isn't circumstantial at all and I have to go.

And now we had a public defender named Leonard Gumlia. And he acknowledged that the case was complicated a little bit, particularly because of the semen found in Denise Ubers' body. Right. But he maintained the position that it was completely circumstantial. Jamal. A little confused about that.

But he said, anybody who thinks they know what happened that night is only guessing. I don't know about that. I don't know, I think all the evidence points to your client. He said, there is no evidence of any trauma that something forcible happened. There may be something consensual happening. Some of the questions remain unanswered

and you can read the physical evidence in many ways. There's no evidence that any trauma happened. Like, I'm sorry. I know he's doing his job, I get it. But like, is he though? Because there is evidence that takes trauma. What the fuck? Like it's just hard to hear.

That's all I'm just hard to say. You have to say that. Like something along the lines of like this was a frenzy killing and then like, yeah, I mean, you got the rest of forever he just had because it's just like, because you're really sticking with that. Yeah, I don't, I don't think this was the way to come at it.

I don't think this was the way to come at it. No, I don't know what the right way to come at it is. I'll say that, but this isn't it. Now, he stayed, the defense attorney stayed very vague in terms of what they said here, but they were definitely laying the groundwork for a defense where Denise went with John Fomelaro willingly and consented to sex.

Yeah, I could see that, which is a bold move to take as a defense. Like her car was found abandoned on the side of the road, you guys. Like I don't know if you remember that. This is one of those where I think you should just like, you should just go at it and be like, yeah, he did it, but let's try to minimize this. Right. A little bit. If that's what you're, you know, because that's their job. But this, this, and this is the problem with this defense that they were laying groundwork for because it's like, how does it explain the exceedingly violent death that she suffered?

Right. How? And telling me, and just the fact that her car was abandoned, she clearly didn't go anywhere willingly. Exactly. That's the thing. It undermines the kidnapping and sexual assault charges that, and this is the thing, like we're sitting here looking at it from this point of you being like, what the fuck? But they're doing it because if they do somehow plant a seed like that and somebody in the jury's minds, then it undermines the sexual assault and kidnapping charges that you need for those special circumstances to elevate it to a death penalty case. So they're trying to remove it from that wild.

Now Orange County Superior Court Judge Kathleen O'Leary set the trial date for October 2nd, 1995. So she was missing in 1991. Yeah. So the prosecution and defense had a lot of time to prepare, but complicating matters for both sides were the introduction of DNA evidence, which at this point was pretty new.

It was a pretty new science as far as, you know, the public knew. Yeah. And by April of 1995, the defense petitioned the court for a delay. They noted the extraordinary amount of evidence seemed from Fomolaro's home in Arizona, which I'm like circumstantial evidence, you mean?

Is that what you're noting? You're noting us, you need to go through the circumstantial evidence. Oh, he don't. He said, we have to go through 65 boxes of documents. And he said, he documented his whole life. So Judge O'Leary approved the request and set the new trial date for April 29th, 1996.

Stop. The trial would be delayed for another full year as the defense entered motion after motion after motion, asking for all this time to review additional evidence, interview witnesses, the defense needed way more time because they knew they had a shit case. Yeah. So Denise and Lone Hueb, or excuse me, Dennis and Lone Hub, or Dennis and Loner, her parents, they waited more than three years to even learn what happened to Denise. And then to hear that. Yeah.

And then they waited even more time to see him even begin to face justice. Finally on April 21st, 1997. Oh my God. Jerry Selection begins. Six years. Yes. In Orange County Superior Court. And it was the people of the state of California versus John Fomolaro. Denise's former boyfriend Steven, the one

who couldn't go to the concert that night, told the LA Times, everyone I know still wants to know what's happening in the case. But unfortunately Denise's friends and family would just have to wait several more weeks for the trial to even begin. Because once again, the defense held it up with objections to certain jury members, and they said there was a death in the family. Like why are you just trying to keep this ongoing for the family?

Just let this family rest, man. So you don't have a good case, then I'm jujube, yet. Now after a long and very tense jury selection, the trial finally started on May 8th, 1997. Yeah, and then we had to go to jail. Yeah. Now, after a long and very tense jury selection, the trial finally started on May 8, 1997. In his opening statement, Deputy District Attorney Christopher Evans laid out the state's case against John Fomelaro, telling the jury how Denise had been pulled from her car by him,

then sexually assaulted and brutally and gruesomely killed. He told the jury Denise did not go easily, and then he detailed the extent of her injuries and assault. And according to Kishifa back. Yeah, absolutely. Now, according to the district attorney, Fomolaro had gone out of his way to purchase a freezer and steal a rider truck in order to keep Hubert's body.

And he said, keep it as quote, I've perverse trophy to remind himself of the success he had that night. And it's true. He'd gone out of his way to keep this stuff. And like, he just would go in there and like, that's the thing. It's like, what are you doing? Right. Like, it's unthinkable. It really is. It is. Now anticipating the defense's argument that Denise went willingly with John Fomelaro, Evans made sure to remind the jury that Hubert's car

had broken down in a well-lit area surrounded by several options for assistance and just a short walk from her parents' house. Oh, no. Under those circumstances, it makes absolutely zero sense that she would instead of going to get help in these several avenues laid out to her, she would get in a car with a sketchy guy

who would have definitely immediately driven her in the wrong direction. Exactly. Like, it wouldn't have happened. No. It's so sad that her car broke down that close to home. That's the thing, it's like if her car hadn't broken down, it's like oh.

Now among the first witnesses called by the prosecution was Rob Calvert, who was the friend she went to the concert with. He testified the events of the evening, and he included the fact that they definitely had several drinks over the course of the evening, but he was like, it wasn't a big deal. Under cross-examination, Leonard Gumlia, the defense attorney, honed in on that fact, but it definitely backfired on him because following his cross-examination of Calvert, he had to make it clear that he didn't mean to imply, quote, that Hubert was drunk, but to suggest that she had drunk enough to not want to summon help from authorities

and to take a little more risk than you might otherwise do in that situation. Oh, so victim-believing. So it's like that wasn't a good look on your part. And it's like, okay, so she's not allowed a grown woman of age, is not allowed to drink at a concert. Right. And if she does so, then she doesn't like, you know, what do you think happened? Of course, she was going to get brutally assaulted and murdered and kidnapped. No. Isn't that a good look? Isn't it interesting how these things like don't

really get brought up? And it's like a female, like, exactly. Are you gonna do that with a guy if this was the other way around? Right. No. The defense's line of questioning was definitely aimed at supporting their ultimate defense,

which was she went willingly. And they hadn't presented that to the jury yet because they were trying to lead up to it and kind of lay groundwork to get the jury, to get the jury thinking they came up with it kind of thing. So they thought they were doing that, but it kept backfiring. I was gonna say this is a hot mess on their side.

It just kept making them look shitty, to be honest, and they had no proof of it. Right. Now, how do you even prove that? No, and again, it doesn't make sense that you would go willingly with some strange guy. And it's not like John Fomelara looks like a wholesome guy that you wanted to get in the cart with, like he just didn't. Really?

So the prosecution rested its case on May 14th. And the defense requested that the judge drop the kidnapping charge. What? They said, quote, I understand that she ended up in a place she didn't want to be and ended up in a condition she didn't want to be in dead. You mean killed, but there's no evidence that she got there forcefully. I'm sorry. Did you see her shoes?

Yeah. Or a drag mark. Oh, thank you. Because the prosecution strongly objected, they argued that they believed Denise was blindfolded, which they said had a ton of implication, and Judge John Ryan agreed with Evans, saying there are too many reasonable inferences to show kidnapping, and they were trying to argue

that those scuff marks came from something else they weren't from being dragged. Are you kidding me? Or heel literally broke. Yeah. On May 19th, the defense tried to change the tactic now. Y'all know. And the defense didn't deny that Famelaro had killed Denise Hubert. Instead, they were arguing that because she was a little intoxicated, she made a poor

decision to not seek help from authorities and gotten the car with the stranger. So now she's trying to say, they're trying to say, okay, she did get willingly in that car, but she was drunk. That's why. So now they're trying to back track it up and say people if they're drunk. Initially, I was saying that she got in there willingly,

like weren't mentioning the drunk thing, just she wanted to get in the car with them. And consented to sex. And now they're saying, well, no, no, no, she's drunk. So she made a dumb decision. That's what now they're trying to be like, wow, what a dumb decision that was. And also, even if it was the case,

and it was like a silly choice, it shouldn't result in you getting murdered. And speaking on those scuffs and things to her shoes, the defense said that the shoes Denise was wearing that night had the scuffs on them. Had it happened when she was dragged as the prosecution was trying to. Oh, and did they have a wild claim? They said it happened when Denise was, quote, walking up and down the freeway in Bankman

where the car was found. Oh, she was dragging her feet or heels. Right. That makes a lot of sense. Which I want to be like, okay, did anyone in that courtroom go, can you show me physically how you do that? Yeah, how would that happen? Just show me. Put on a pair of heels.

Yeah. Show me how you scuff the back of your heels. Because that's the thing. By walking. To me how that happens. So the jury deliberated for just five hours before returning a verdict of guilty on the charges of first degree murder.

Good. Also kidnapping. Yeah. And also saw to murder. Good. Also kidnapping. Yeah. And also saw to me. Yeah. Dennis Huber told reporters after the verdict, it's a step in justice. The man who did that is that much closer

to meeting his justice. Yeah. The death penalty. Good. So her parents wanted it. And although the verdict came as a relief to a lot of people, Deputy District Attorney Christopher Evans was quick to remind everyone,

this is not a case of great law enforcement cracking a crime. It was a fluke. It fell into their hands. He almost got away with it. It's true. And unfortunately, that is 100% true. It, yes. He almost got away with it.

And he would have done this again. There's not a doubt in my personal mind. It was honestly because of Elaine and her husband that Elaine trusted her gut and wrote down the information. She was a bad bee. Without Elaine, this would have never been possible. He might have never been possible.

Yeah. He could have kept on living that way and other people could have fallen victim. So it's really upsetting when you think about it that this was a complete fluke. Absolutely. That he was found. It's also, I can't imagine being one of those ex-girlfriends and being like, how close you were?

Seriously, especially. Yeah. One of them, it was like a couple of weeks before he murdered you. Yes. Like, had he, like, I don't even want to say snapped because that's not what happened. Yeah. But had he decided to open up that part of him that was clearly there, it's very upsetting.

No, John Fomolaro returned to court in late May for the sentencing phase. Over two weeks, friends and family got to testify on the impact of Denise's murder on their lives with him in the room. At times, I guess the jury and several members of the court were in tears. I bet. With all of these testimonials, it was a really emotional emotional sentencing phase. And the defense called several character witnesses to testify

on Fomolaro's behalf, including his mother,, told the court that her son had truly, and she was actually right here, she said her son had truly never received the help he needed. Yeah. Which, yeah, 100%. After several more delays, Femalaro finally came back into court on September 5th, 1997.

I remember the sentence in phase was two weeks in May, and this was in September. John Ryan sentenced him to death. He said, just imagine what was going through her mind. And judge Ryan said that the brutality, the crime was the reason that he was imposing the death penalty. He said nothing. He couldn't think of something that matched the brutality of this. I can't either. Now, as you know, it's a death penalty case, so his verdict was set for automatic appeal. And the first appeal was heard in 2007. Oh, wow.

And it argued that the publicity surrounding the case in Orange County basically ensured that he wasn't going to receive a fair trial. It's a great. It said both that the court aired on denying the change of venue motion, i.e. that at the time of the motion, it was reasonably likely that a fair trial could not be had and that the error was prejudicial, i.e. that is reasonably, it is reasonably likely that a fair trial was not in fact had. Police. The appeal motion also argued that the outcome of the case, case was very influenced by It is reasonably likely that a fair trial was not in fact had. Please. The appeal motion also argued that the outcome of the case was very influenced by the media

coverage in which, I can't believe this, in which quote, Denise Huber had been portrayed in a very favorable light. Well, Fomolaro had been portrayed in negative terms. That's probably because nobody ever found a dead body on Denise's property, and they found a dead body in multiple other horrific, horrific heinous things on that man's property. I'd say that's why. Probably. Most likely. I love that. It's like, oh yeah, they portrayed Denise in a favourable light and it's like, no, baby, she was just an awesome person. Yeah. She was clearly. Maybe that was it. Like, I don't think they were like taking out giant black marks on her record.

Like she was a good person. Exactly. She was a decent being with her friend that night. Yeah. And this is how our family, she was a good friend. People liked her. She liked animals. Like she was, okay, like fuck you.

Like what? John Fomolar is a piece of shit and a woman being a user. Who has abused and traumatized several women. So maybe that's why. If that's the media influencing people, then I don't understand this apparently. Nor do I. Yeah. Now ultimately, the appeals court rejected both

of these things and upheld the lower courts original verdict and sentence of death. Good. In 2006, a United States District Court judge ruled that California's capital punishment laws were unconstitutional. Since then, all death row sentences have remained in place, but are essentially sitting in like a

purgatory here, yeah, like a limbo. They're indefinite hold, basically, including John Fumilar's. He remains on death row in San Quentin Prison, and he will likely stay there for the rest of his life. For Denise's parents, Dennis and Loan, whatever happens to John Fumilaro from this point, they don't give a shit at this point.

I don't blame them. Dennis told a reporter from the Los Angeles Times in 2006, it's done. It's done, I feel. There's nothing more they can be done. It's up to the state to do something with them now. They're basically like, fuck you done. It's done, I feel. There's nothing more they can be done. It's up to the state to do something with them now. They're basically like, fuck you guys. Yeah. And they said, after more than 30 years, which wow, the pain of

losing their daughter is with them daily. It doesn't go away. It doesn't dull. Nothing makes it better. But they have managed to find at least some peace. Dennis said, the wound never heals. You just learn how to deal with it, and it doesn't hurt quite as much as it did at first. Oh, but that is the horrific case of the kidnapping and murder and assault of Denise Hubert. That's a tragic, tragic case and just so brutal. John Fomolaro is a...

It's hard to even describe him. I don't think he... I don't think there's words on this planet I could possibly. Because there's no remorse, see there. There's no remorse. There's no... No, apologize. Apology.

There's no real... Nothing. Like, he didn't give any insight as to what he just stumbled upon her. And like, what? He just drove by her, and that was it. You have to wonder if he'd killed before that. Right.

Because that is like, I mean, maybe who knows? Some people do just do something like this. That's the thing. Like, you want to say like there's no way that this can be his first, because it's so brutal. Oh, brutal. But like that happens.

It does. Sometimes they start like this, but it's just, it's horrifying. And it's the trophies. Yeah. And the amount of trophies that he kept. And that there was bloodstain. Yeah.

He kept the boxes for the handcuffs. I mean, like Christmas. Everything, everything. Yeah, he's a sick fuck. Yeah, he truly is. This is a doozy. Yeah, it's awful. But wow.

I mean, it sounds like at least her family was able to find peace in the closure of it. But obviously nothing takes away. And honestly, they had to sit in that courtroom and hear what happened. And look at this piece of shit that stole their daughter away. I know, I hope nothing but the best for them going forward. I know they seem like very kind, very sweet.

Like a really good family. Like I really hope that at least some good things happen to them after this that they could enjoy. Like, oh, I don't know how you would ever be able to again, but because they have truly been through and through something that none of us can even fathom. Conjure up in our head. At least here in this room.

Yeah. Oh my. Well, I feel like we've had a lot of back to back, like very, very brutal cases. Yes. So I'm working on a haunted case right now. We need that, yeah. We need that, you know, spooky season is upon us.

Yes. I say that word's June. I was like, to me, sure. To me, it's upon me. It's only a few months away. That's what I mean. I mean, I can smell it. Ooh.

So bring me the spooky cases. Gees scary skeletons. There you go. There you go. Another shit. Oh, me the spooky cases. Spooky scary skeletons and pumpkins and other shit. No the shit. That's the song. But yeah, but yeah, my haunting has like some murder in it, which is like very tragic, but it's mostly spooky, gooky. I like it. So hope you keep listening and hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you don't tune in next week for something haunted and light, bye. Bye. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download

the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.