Morbid - Episode 484: The Alleged Smurl Family Haunting pt 2

Episode Date: August 10, 2023

On August 19, 1986, a curious news item appeared in the Wilkes-Barre Times Leader regarding the home of West Pittston, PA family Jack and Janet Smurl. The couple claimed, for more than eighteen months their home had been a battleground of spiritual warfare that included everything from ghosts wandering the halls and tormenting the family dog to demons attacking the children and even sexually assaulting the adults in the house.The article in the Times Leader began a weeks-long fascination with the family and their ordeal, drawing reporters from all over Pennsylvania and the surrounding states, and eventually attracting the attention of self-proclaimed demonologist and psychic medium Ed and Lorraine Warren. At first, the Smurls' claims of demonic infestation were taken seriously by the church, many members of the press, and countless of the Smurls neighbors. As time wore on, however, the inability of both the Smurls and the Warren’s to produce any evidence of their supposed haunting led many to believe the claims were just a hoax perpetrated by the family for attention and fame. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening to a morbid network podcast. Okay, you guys went ham sandwich and ordered so many lunar dials in the in the presale there like I was like oh my god you became entire ham hogees. What's a ham hogee? What is that? Isn't it like a sub? But somewhere else? We're all in Colomogies. A sub is a hogey? Yeah. I thought I was gonna see a hob is a sogey.

Well, I don't know. I know. Is that the mother fucking lunar dial is going to be available on the Wondery Shop starting August 1st. WWW, that's 3Ws.wonderyshop.com and that's starting August 1st. But if you're not one for the internet, that's fine. Cause you can go out into the world. This is my favorite part and you can go to some of my fucking favorite places. Target, target, Barnes and Noble, and Amazon starting August 1st. And you can buy it there, baby! Play the game, play it, play it so hard. Go get it!

Dun and Taya. You bunch of hoogies starting in August. August. Hey weirdos, I'm Alina. I'm Ash. And this is morbid. What are you following my lead-ah? That's me, Lida. That's me, you're a leader, I'm a follower. No, I'm a Lida. You're a Lida, I'm a follower. Yeah, literally not at all.

Actually, I feel like we're both Lida's. I would like to think that. No, I'm just like ballin' in my own court. Yeah, absolutely. As you should. Yeah, you know? Yeah. Don't ballin' other people's court. Literally don't like balling in my own court. Yeah, absolutely. As you should. Yeah, you know, yeah. Don't ball in other people's court. Literally don't ball in other people's court.

Get on your own court. Guys, this has nothing to do with what we were just talking about right now, but we didn't have a plan going into this. We did not. We did not. But I think I just dropped some good wisdom on you. I think you did, because usually we have like some points we wanna hit, and then we just let it go from there.

Yeah. We had nothing when we went into this, so we're just, I'm flying off the seat of my pants, but I thought about it. And Halloween stuff is out right now. Halloween. And I gotta tell you, we're almost in August. And I feel like my soul is coming alive.

It's like a weakening spooky season is upon us. Actually the other night I went outside, like probably, I don't know, like eight or nine o'clock and I smelled the air and I said to myself, that smelled a little bit like full. And I said that to Drew and he just looked at me, like what the fuck is wrong with you? He's like, it's July.

I was like, not where I'm from. Not my soul. Not in this from. Not in my soul. Not in this court. Not in my heart. No. It's not July in my heart. Although I'm getting a little bit, like not really, but I'm getting like kind of sad

because I gardened for the first time this year. Like you saw my garden the other day. I did, it's pretty bad. She's fucking thriving. She is. I feel like I'm gonna be a little so sad when I can't garden anymore. I don't feel that way, but I will feel bad for you.

Yeah, you know, all empathize with you. Well, I can still garden. What? I'm sorry, I was correcting my own, I was like, I won't empathize. I said, I'll sympathize. I will not. I'm not gonna empathize. But I will sympathize. I'll give you a little sympathy.

Yeah. No, I think obviously you can still garden in the fall, but then like when the winter hits, I'll be so a little sympathy. Yeah. No, I think obviously you can still guard another fall, but then when the winter hits, I'll be so happy during the holidays, but then I'll just be like, my garden is so long. I mean, I'm looking forward to that song, but you're gonna create so,

I just think it's you when I come in. That single that you're gonna drop in the winter. That's what I'm excited about. It's called ball in your own court. But you know what? I also is happening right now. Um, pub day, pub day, pub day. It's paperback pub day for the butcher and the rent

and you can go get it anywhere you get books. And also it has a sneak peek of the sequel. That's right. It has a fucking chapter from the sequel. Yeah, Bench. So you can get started before anybody else reading the sequel, except me. Get on it. I read Yeah, but in it. So you can get started before anybody else reading the sequel. Except me.

Get on it. I read it. Get on it. Not the whole sequel, but I did read a lot of it. Some chunks. Yeah. This bitch is a scary girl. What did I say to you, how the dead?

You did. I said put that on a quote on the foot of it. Why didn't we write it down? I think I said, oh, I said, I said being in her inner orbit truly scares me, dot, dot, and she's my sister. Yeah. And I thought that was a great quote. Yeah. She should be on the book. It was something like that. I think it was a little bit better.

I like this. But either way, it's fun to have another pub day. Pub days are fun. You guys have been fucking amazing, buying the book and buying the paperback and just giving me all kinds of like support and just like support raw, you know, and I appreciate it. I feel the who-ross, like they really give it to, and I love you guys for that. Who-ra, you know who-ra, and so go get that paperbook. Paperbook, and paperback.

Paperbook back, you know. Paperbook, and if you feel, get that as well. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're back. We're we that book. It works like that. That's what happened to me. I've never gone and bought a book that like the author signed. So I feel like that's a special moment. Oh, I'd be excited for authors that I love, but it's wild to me that people feel that way about my signature.

I was gonna say, I appreciate. You're, this is a crazy sentence. You're an author that people love. Yeah, that still has a song in there. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Still has not. Sunk in there. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Still has not. Sunk in there.

I have just, just, just stand our little chat in the beginning so we can get to the case. Never end our chat. Never end our chat. Don't end our chat. No, I was just going to say, guys, go read the troupe by Nick Cutter.

It's a really tough book. She's talking about a lot. It's a great book. I highly recommend it. It's pretty brutal. Don't even Stephen King say something about it. Stephen King said it was scared. It scared the hell out of him. So that's, I highly recommend it. It's pretty brutal. So you didn't even Stephen King say something about it? Stephen King said it was scared, it scared the hell out of him.

So that's what drew me to it. That's big. I thought he was, Nick Cutter is a great writer. I thought it was phenomenal. I'm still chugging my way down the Paris memoir. So I feel like we're gonna be years later. You're gonna be like, I have more stuff with that. Yeah, I'm trying to start reading for Lesure again because we read a lot for work that. Yeah, I'm trying to start reading for leisure again,

because we read a lot for work, obviously. So I'm trying to read for leisure again, but it's not really working out for me. It's tough to shoehorn it in there sometimes in the schedule, but it's important and it feels great. It does. Read your mind. Books and smells of them, but are you ready to start

talking about the rotten meat smell again that was going down in the Smirl House? I am always ready to talking about the rotten meat smell again? That was going down in the smell house I am always ready to talk about the rotten meat smell that's going down in the smell house Let's go. It's really the only way I could transition to this new conversation that we're about to have this no real Sphasegway. I'm pretty sure we're leaving most of the rotten meat smell in part one But but let's recap. There we go. Yeah, transitions and segues. There you go It says so it's and that's why we drink. And go listen to them.

Yeah, we save it all the time, but like do it. Go listen. Listen, listen. Listen. Um, I lost my turn if thought, but yeah. So in part one, we were talking about the Smirl family, and I think in the beginning I was telling you guys how like this article dropped in this fucking newspaper,

and everybody was like, holy shit, this family's really going through it. Yeah, and then I told you about some of the things that happened. We had a small house fire as I was telling you about a fire. It got sinister. It got sinister and dorks added. Dorks added. So go leasing to part one. What if I just did the whole story in that accent? I think some people would stick around. You Probably. Some people. A couple. It's the real ones with stick around. The real ones, the OGs. But yeah, so we had a small house fire of our own.

And then when I left you guys off in part one, everybody was like, especially Janet Smurl, was like, I really need to talk to everybody about this. And everybody was like, I think you're Kuku nuts bananas. I don't know why I said banana like that, but I did. Banana. Banana's kind of like a minion.

And then Ed and Lorraine stepped on the scene. As they do. As they do. As they do. They are known to do. So as soon as Ed and Lorraine showed up and you know, it was clear to the smirls that they believed in whatever it was going on in the house,

that was a huge sigh of relief for them because that is something they provide. A huge sigh of relief. They provide unwavering support. Do you speak from personal experience? I just feel like if you're gonna have something like this happening to you, Ed and Lorraine are gonna come in and they're gonna go, we believe you. They're gonna say, breathe easy baby. Like no one else will probably do that

or some people won't, but like, most people, and then Lorraine are gonna come in and they're gonna be like, we believe you. So they at least give you that. And sometimes they're very least. They're gonna bring their friend Rosemary who also believes in you. Yeah, and I, I mean, it's not real if Rosemary

doesn't believe it. So as soon as she comes in, I'm like, it's real. Only with her baby though. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. But like I said, there were years and years of like slammed doors in their faces. So they were like, okay, wow, like cool

that you're not doubting us. Yeah. But at the same time, the Smirrel started noticing that having paranormal investigators in the house was actually pissing off the vibes a lot more and things started to seem like they were getting worst. Oh, no. Oh my God, they were getting worse.

Throw me out a window at this very moment. I won't do that, because I love you, but that was pretty rough. It was pretty rough. I also didn't write that, so I don't know why. No, sometimes it just happens. I feel bad. I have to go shower or something.

A lot of times my mouth will say something in a way that I'm like, I didn't intend to say that at all. The other day, actually, I literally just came up here and I started to talk and I was like, ah, ah, can confirm. And I was like, that's not what I was trying to say. That's accurate. I used to do that when I wait for us to.

I would just walk up to tables and not be able to talk. I love that. And they were like, hey girl, hey girl, I don't need you, okay? The most disturbing event that the Smirals went through was on June 21st, 1986, after the warrants had already started their investigation. They'd eaten dinner together as a family, watched a little movie,

they were having a fam bam night, adorable, seemingly with no disturbances. They put the kids to bed with no issues, they went up to bed themselves, they went to sleep. It was great, great. But a few hours later, after went up to bed themselves, they went to sleep. It was great. Great. But a few hours later, after everyone else had fallen asleep, Jack, daddy, oh there. Jack.

Jack the dad woke up out of a deep, deep sleep. And he said he woke up with what felt like a violent jolt. Oh. He said, at first I didn't see anything at all. I just felt this tremendous sort of panic. I wasn't sure if I was having a nightmare or not. I was just wondering if I was having a nightmare or not. I was just wondering if I was having a nightmare or not.

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monitoring. This special offer is for a limited time only. Visit simplysafe.com slash morbid. That's simplysafe.com slash morbid. There's no safe like simply safe. And like, so this is wild this next part. And I actually can't believe that I personally have to deliver this to you. But it's part of the story and my journalistic truth is driving me forward. It is. So he is essentially. Mikey is preparing. Mikey knows what's next because Mikey and Dave spoke about this.

Oh no. So Jack woke up to a ghost straddling him. Okay. And he said that the figure was mostly human, but the woman also looked like she had some sort of scales like on her skin, almost like a snake. And her skin, he said, was almost like a translucent white, but like with the scales, of course.

And he told author Robert Kern, who I talked about in the first part, she had long white, straggly hair, and her eyes were all red, and the inside of her mouth and her gums were green. Some of her teeth were missing, but though she had, we're very long and vampire-like. She's succubus?

Is that what's happening here? Mm-hmm. Oh. He claimed that the woman had some sort of hold over him that was like literally paralyzing him, almost like sleep paralysis, but he was not sleeping. Mm-hmm. And he realized what was happening. And when he did, he just froze and terror. He said after the woman had, I guess I would say sexually assaulted him because he was not consenting consenting to this. She looked down at him menacingly and quote, smiled showing those incredible teeth. So she like literally took advantage of him and like she raped him.

Holy shit. According to him, that's what happened. A scaly white translucent woman with sharp, spiny, some teeth and red eyes and scrabbly hair. And then she smiled afterwards. And then later he described himself as being sore. And he said, like really sore, like from... Like he had been assaulted.

Yes, exactly. And he said, that's how he knew that. Because when it happened, he woke up the next morning after somehow falling asleep and was like, there's no fucking way that happened. But then he was like, my house is fucked. I think that happened. And now I'm sore, like I'm feeling the aftermath.

I've been assaulted. That's what's always shocking to me in these cases, there's one that like, and then I just fell asleep. And then I woke up the next day and I'm like, like, you fucked up, leave after that. You just fell asleep. I feel like up and at him, we're'm like, you fucked up sleep after that. You just fell asleep. I feel like up and at him, we're going to, like the neighbor's house,

you know, we gotta get out of here. That's the fuck out of there. But then I think about all the times I've had sleep paralysis and I just fall back to sleep after that. But it's never been on that long. No, not no. You just see like a creepy guy

in the corner with a hat. I've never interacted with my sleep paralysis, demon. Like one-on-one. No, no. Even like when I have like a nightmare that I know I was sleeping in a chat, any kind of sleep paralysis demon. Like one on one. No, no. Even like when I have like a nightmare that I know I was sleeping in a chat, any kind of sleep paralysis, I have a hard time going back to sleep.

And sometimes I'm like, maybe I should go to the neighbor's house. I should just maybe it's not safe here. Yeah, it was safe there. No. If you do read Robert Kern's book, which I'll link in the show notes and I mentioned it in part one too,

he goes a lot more into that specific instance. I kind of just wanted to. We'll show you real. Yeah, it's very dark. So you get the details in the book. Yes, going to the book for sure. So after weeks of, again, increasingly aggressive attacks on the Smirl House, it was clear to quite literally everyone involved that they needed the help of the church if they were going to get rid of this infestation in the home. Yeah. But the problem was that while the Catholic diocese was sympathetic and the local parish priests offered to come bless the house, they declined a request for, say it with me, and exorcism.

Yes. Since they ran into a bit of another closed door there, the Smurls, and they kind of felt like they were out of options, Jack and Janet, that's when they started thinking about going public with the story. Basically, hoping that someone would hear about them and offer some kind of solution. And Jack also hoped that once they went public, the church would kind of be shamed into helping. There's a bit of speculation about more than one timeline in this case. I've kind of talked about that a bit in part one.

People questioned the timeline of the haunted self, but they also argue over who was the first person to take the story public in this scenario of people. Okay. In their published account of the investigation of the haunting of the Smirl House, the haunted one family's nightmare. Ed Warren claimed that the identical public with this family story of the haunting of the Smirl House, the haunted One Family's Nightmare. Ed Warren claimed that the idea to go public with this family story was solely Jack and Janet's decision.

He said, Lorraine and I believed that Janet and Jack's son and desire to find a public forum offered one very good possibility that the Scranton diocese would have to recognize at last that something was going on in Westpittston and they had to take seriously. So basically, he was like, he agreed with Jack Sentiment of like, yeah, the church is ignoring this. And if we go public with this, they're going to realize, holy shit, something

really is going on and we should have helped. Yeah, absolutely. But others who became involved in the case a little while later though, remember things a little differently. So Paul Kurtz, who owns and wrote a piece in the skeptical inquirer, said, indeed, it was apparently at the behest of the warrants that the Smirl family first released their story to the press about the ghostly manifestations. So Ed Warren is being like, no, no, no, no, no. That was fully their decision. Jack and Janet wanted to do this to pressure the church, but Paul Kurtz is being like, no, no, no, no, no.

Ed and Lorraine put pressure on Jack and Janet to go public. I wonder what happened. Me too. I wonder where the truth lies. Somewhere in the middle, I'm sure. Somewhere in there. What did they say?

Yours mine and, yeah, yours mine and the truth. Yeah, that's what it is. Yeah. So whoever went to the press aside when the associated press story about the Smurls haunted house starting hitting started hitting the newspapers and that was on August 18th 1986. It kicked off a huge interest in what they were calling the strange going zones in the Smurl House. All right. The strange going zones in the Smirl House. All right, the strange going zones. Going zones. I think it was actually just going zones, sorry. That's okay. Just like making everything plural. We can make it crazy.

We can go crazy. But the media in and around Pennsylvania, they were going wild and everybody wanted to be reporting with the latest update, like each little department of reporters. So the next day, there was a bunch of follow-up articles that appeared in local papers and they were getting quotes from Jack and Janet. In one instance, Janet told a reporter, Steve Corbett, for some reason the devil wants us, they, the demons, are

making us pay for something we know nothing about. The punishment has to stop. And I was like, okay, Janet. Okay, Janet. what, what, they're making you pay for something and you don't know anything about it? That's a thing. I'm like, I don't know. I feel like this is just demons thing. I feel like they don't need a specific reason. Like they don't have a vendetta.

No, I don't think they're into like a lessons. You live here. Yeah, demons aren't necessarily like the ghost of Christmas past trying to be like, hey, you should probably be more generous. Yeah, I think they're into like, just lessons. You live here. Yeah, demons aren't necessarily like the ghost of Christmas past trying to be like, hey, you should probably be more generous. Yeah, I think they're just like, but fuck shit. Oh, I think demons are like the strangers

at the end of the strangers and they say, because you were home. I think that's it. I fucking love that. I don't think there's a reason. I think it's the scary, no motivation answer at the end of the horror movie where you go fuck. I'm talking about scream.

Yeah, yeah. Scarrier if there's no motive. Scarrier when there's no motive. It is fucking scary. That's why demons are terrified. That's why demons are demons. That's what they do. But she went on just like they had planned to, to specifically name the Catholic diocese when she was doing her interviews.

Obviously, putting the pressure on. Yeah. So she said to the same reporter, we are a haunted family who desperately needs the power of the Catholic Church to help purge the evil. I just wanna tell you that light just came on. Ooh, I don't like that. What's happening every time we talk about this?

I don't know, because we were a little night light just popped on next to me. We were talking earlier about something top secret. In the lights, it was just like a vision that we had. But the lights started flickering on and off. It was really strange. Yeah, as soon as you were just saying that and I happened to look out of the corner of my eye,

I had it and it popped on as I looked at it. That was strange goings on. Yeah, we're haunted family. Yeah. But now that Janet had named the church specifically, they started the church started getting contacted by reporters, so they had to say something. Yeah.

So a spokesperson for the Catholic diocese of Scranton. Scranton. Damn, damn, damn, damn, damn, damn, damn, damn, the matter is under investigation. The church takes the reports of demons very seriously. However, a valid case of demonic possession is extremely rare. Oh, I just had a demonic possession.

I just had a demonic possession. As I was reading that, I was like, I am sneezing. I was like, I mean, I like that there be a real about it. They're like, it's pretty fucking rare. It's rare, and they're like, they're not saying, you seriously. We're not saying it doesn't happen. We're just saying it's like, it's rare. It's rare and they're like you're not saying you seriously. We're not saying it doesn't happen.

We're just saying it's like it's rare. Not everybody gets a demonic possession. Like the swirls are not cool enough for a demonic possession. Yeah, they're like the the Brandon's over there. You're cool. You're just a common haunting. It's just but the really rare ones. This will leave you with them. Cute of you to think you're of them. Cute of you to think you're so content. Cute of you to think you're so hot. So now that the case was getting more and more attention, and in Lorraine, we're getting interviews with the press too. Of course.

Ed Warren, he would always stand by Jack and Janet, excuse me, during their interviews too, and Ed told reporters, the Smurls are truly a family coming under visual attack. The ghost, devil, demon, whatever you want to call it is in that home. And he pointed to the 1973 exorcist, like the movie, and said he said it was only evidence that added credibility to the Smurls story. He said it was based on a true case of history of a boy from Mount Rainer, Washington back in 1949. I was there, but as a young man only in my 20s, nobody paid much attention to me.

Yeah, no one pays attention to a young man in his 20s. I was like, what? Ed, what are you trying to say there? He's like, he's like proof of the exorcist. Fun fact, I was in Mount Rainer. Yeah. But nobody cared about me. He's like, yeah, you know, I was just a young man in his 20s of the exorcist. Fun fact, I was in Mount Rainer. Yeah, but nobody cared about me. He's like, yeah, you know, I was just a young man in his 20s talking about exorcisms and like,

you know how they fly under the radar. So it's like, I don't know. I feel like you're talking about two things that are simply not connected and trying to make some kind of connection out of it. But you know, go off, King. Go off. But according to Ed, the family who lived in the Smirl House

before the Smirls moved in, they were the ones responsible for quote, the first of the four paranormal stages. Oh. Which he referred to as the opening. That's the first stage. The opening. I do love the theatrics. I fucking love it. Now, he wasn't able to provide a ton of details because he didn't want anyone getting sued No, of course not, but he claimed that the previous occupants had quote Allowed the doors to open up that allowed the phenomenon to occur Which like lots of big words going on lots of like sounds pretty blaming

Blaming exactly going on but as for how the problem could be resolved He still said it would require an exorcism by a priest from the Catholic church. That was the only way out of it. Yeah, it is. But he also said that the reps of the church in Scranton were young and not knowledgeable about this sort of thing, meaning they wouldn't be of any help.

Yeah, so on one hand, they're like, we fucking need the Catholic church to help us. And then on the other hand, they're like, they are unqualified to help us. So we're kind of fucked. What do you want? Ooh. But pretty much every day that went by,

more and more articles were being written. The smurls were being featured in newspapers across Pennsylvania, and even further than that at this point. And a lot of them were actually front page news, which when you think about that, that's fucking nuts. That is nuts. Imagine you will grab the globe and it's like about a haunted family. That would be pretty amazing. Mm, tough news week. I would love that. I would also love that. But every outlet seemed to up the ante, of course, or add some kind of piece of the story that hadn't been mentioned before. And sometimes the new information even seemed like it was intended

to add credibility to the claims. Like it seemed like the even seemed like it was intended to add credibility to the claims. Like it seemed like the reporters were like, you know what, I believe them. And almost kind of sneaking their own things in there to kind of like validate the story. On August 20 for example, Ed Warren claimed that they had extensive video footage of the haunting. Oh exciting, right? I'm excited. Let's go. Well, when he was asked to provide the tapes, he said that he had sent them to someone. But then they were like, okay, like, can you get them back? And he was like, ooh, feel like can I have those?

Actually, the demonic energy was so strong that it, quote, burned a hole right through the tape. You know, that happens. That'll happen also. That happens. Which one is it? Did you send it to someone or did it get a hole burnt through? Well, it burned a hole through the tape.

Hlaw? Yeah. They're like, you know how it is. You know how things burst into flames. Kind of like Jack watching TV. I mean, you do know how things burst into flames these days. That's very true. And how do you argue with that, though, at that point?

Like, at that time, you're just like, yeah, I guess. Yeah. I guess you're right. I would want to see the tape with a whole thing. Would I argue that? I don't know. I'd be like, at least show me the video tape with the whole burn on the subject of it.

Yeah. Because I would say you didn't want to inhale all that plastic. So that must have been a demon. That's true. That's what I would say at least. Yes. Good call. Thank you.

You're welcome. But other additions to the story were just plain bizarre. In an interview with citizens voice at local newspaper, They were all covered, but other additions to the story were just plain bizarre. In an interview with Citizens Voice, a local newspaper, Jack told reporters about a curious incident involving his feet. He said, involving his feet. He said, this is just truly ridiculous. I had my legs crossed at the ankles, and my slippers were alongside of the chair.

Without looking and not taking my eyes off the television, which apparently they had replaced. I leaned forward for my slippers and went to put them on. When I realized I couldn't uncross my feet. Oh, you want to know why he couldn't uncross his feet? Why? This is quotes. The demons had paper-clipped my socks together from the inside where they met. The paper-clip was opened in an S-shape. You try to do that to your socks without ripping them. I can't do it, but I did. But it did. I mean, okay. That's very fake.

It's very mischievous. First of all, I can't even really picture that in my head. No, I'm like an S shape and you couldn't, I can't even really picture that in my head. Nope, I can't do it. I'm like an S-shape and you couldn't, I think you would just rip your socks if you tried to cross your legs. I think you'd be able to. So I think he's right, you really can't.

No, but I... You would just rip your shit, you would just rip your shit. I love. You would just rip your shit all up. But like, what are the demons really get out of that? I don't know, just, I think. Hmm. They're just pranksters, you know? They're like, this is funny, he'll fall.

Also, that's not scary to me. I just feel like fuck off. That's silly goofy. That's, yeah, it would piss me off, depending on my movie. For the day. Yeah, I'd more just feel like that's annoying. I don't like, like, John does this thing that he knows I hate.

To your socks. To my, because I love, like, I have to have socks on. Yeah, she knows that socks off. And she knows that socks off. And so he'll run by me if my legs are crossed and he'll just rip my sock off and then he'll run around and throw it. You guys are really cute.

That's so good. That's the only good thing. He just put his does it because he knows it makes me lose. Like a rash and a little bit. Like a rash and a little bit angry. But he's just like, whoa, and just grabs my socks. He's just like, whoa, and he just gets overcome with the, and I feel like he would, so I'm like, you're a rationally angry, but he's just like, whoa, it just grabs myself. He's just like, whoa, he just gets overcome with the, and I feel like he would, so I feel like the demons,

maybe they're Aries. Okay, and maybe that's just their love language. Maybe they took a page out of John's book. Out of John's book, you know? Maybe that's their love language just driving this family crazy. I like it. I mean, I kind of feel like you're on to something there.

I think so. Maybe the ghosts are just Aries and that's just like a bunch. Well, the Catholic diocese was not Aries and they were not John. No, that was another good segue. Thank you. So, after being inundated with calls from reporters and very concerned citizens and neighbors actually, the Scranton diocese released an official statement on the Smirro case. Ooh. Reverend Gerald Malaylee told reporters, we don't know what it is. That's the problem. We believe what the family is telling us.

It's the explanation for what they are experiencing that we are not sure of. We have no idea what the fuck is going on. They're like, yeah, we believe them, but we don't know what we, because the whole thing is, who are they gonna exercise? That's the problem, the whole family. It's like,

because not one person is like, exactly, like, being to speak like Reagan or anything like that. Like, they're having things happen around them, but nobody's possessed per se. That's the thing, it's like, what's the point of an exorcism?

Like you're not gonna exercise, are you gonna exercise the whole house? Is that a thing? That's what I was gonna say. And I don't think so. I thought you would exercise a person. Yeah, but like you can like bless a house, or you know, which I think they probably

are more apt to do is bless a house. And they did. Yeah. So, but they were like, there's really not much more we can do other than that. Also, what is, that what are the, I wonder what it takes to get an official exorcism?

Like, what are the guidelines that made to hit? The benchmarks. I think you talked actually a little bit about it when you were doing the Arnie Johnson case. And I did talk about it, but there's like, like we don't know what the actual point. We don't talk about the benchmarks of what it is.

But it has to go up really high. Didn't the Pope get involved at one point or something? Yeah, in the chain of who decides? It has to go up really high. But I just want to know what the requirements are. What they need to take to all those people and be like, hey, this family's dealing with all these things. See, I wonder if there's requirements

or if it depends on the person at the top. What they think of the whole situation. Yeah. But at the same time, you would think that there would have to be some criteria. There has to be something. I don't know. I don't know. They were like, not here.

But they said, no. So ultimately, the diocese did agree to send a priest that was, quote, experienced in demonology and parapsychology to go out and investigate. Okay. And they said that after the priest was through with his investigation, they would decide how to go forward. Okay.

So within a week of the first report by the Associated Press, like I said, the coverage, like daily coverage of the Smirals or Deal, had started attracting crowds outside of the house, actually. Like I had got so big, people were getting together, just looking at the house, and sometimes the crowds were larger than 100 people.

That's fucked up. Just like causing a scene. Especially, it's like people lived there. Exactly. I don't know. I think they might have, like, said, hey. Oh, they liked it. I don't know. Oh.

I never talked to them personally. I was thinking it's weird just to do that anyway. I think that's very weird to do that in the house. Yeah, like don't do that. No, the rude. Yeah, because the thing is a lot of times the police actually had to intervene to disperse everyone and manage the crowd.

Imagine being their neighbor. I would be so fucking annoyed. That's the thing if you lived on that street and be fucking pissed. I'd be real annoyed. The story though actually caught the attention eventually, like because of all of this, of Jason Miller, who played Father Damien in the exercise.

Oh shit. So he was, because he's from Scranton. So one day he went along with a journalist from the Times Tribune and took a tour of the Smirl House. Shut up. That's why I think they let certain people in, so I think they were, you know. For sure. But he said of the visit, this is no Amityville horror with a big spooky house.

The family is terrified that the infestation of the home will go to the family. Huh. Like, so I think they were worried that next step was possession. Yeah, of course. Now while they were in the living room, Janet told Jason Miller and the reporter that there was some activity actually going on in Don's bedroom upstairs and she was like, we should go up there.

Like I can actually finally show you something. What's happening right now? But would Jack took the visitors to the room, quote, everything was normal. Like nothing was going on. Yeah. Yeah. So by the end of all,

I told you no media training for these ghosts. They don't want to do, they're like, no. No cameras. They're, no, no cameras. They're like us, no videos. Don't take a pic. Don't take a video. Don't take a video. Never.

So by the end of August, the non-stop reports on the Smirl haunting started getting a little mundane for readers. They were like, okay, there's not a lot really happening here. Nothing new to report. So people are losing interest. Now not wanting to lose an audience, potentially. Jack Janet and the Warrens allegedly came forward with a new piece of information that they had gotten via a psychic investigation of the house and a possible explanation for

the haunting. All right. Which like I think you guys already provided that but go off. But sure. According to Janet, quote, two psychics who spent time in the house believe there may be a link between the alleged spirits and a decade's old murder. There are two earthbound and one demonic spirit here. One is a woman named Abigail, a friendly spirit who talks to me. One is a man named Patrick who is angry. The other is a demon. Ooh. So the psychics told Janet allegedly that almost a hundred years earlier in 1998 or 1899, Patrick had murdered his wife Abigail. Oh, shit. And she went on the psychic to explain, quote,

he was supposed to have been hanged nearby and buried here. Now he's afraid to go into the spirit world because he thinks he will be punished as he should. As he absolutely should. I also was like, why was he going to get buried on his own property? I was going to ask that. That's only legal in some places. I don't know about Scranton. But unfortunately, there's literally no documented evidence whatsoever that either of those people existed or were real or any evidence that says a murder or an execution took place in that, like regarding those people. Okay. So there's that.

All right. Now, while the smells had gone to the press initially to draw attention to their predicament, and as they claim to get help from anybody who had similar experiences, after a week, the non-stop coverage was starting to take its toll on even the Smirl family. Yeah, of course. Jack told reporters, it's just getting a little crazy. Do you know we have people climbing up the tree outside the house that night trying to look in the windows?

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And they have kids. Yeah, and like younger kids too. Yeah, that's what I'm not cool. And they have four girls, you know? Like, get it together people. Now, even worse than that though, people were now starting to criticize the story

and we're talking amongst themselves questioning the validity of what the smells were claiming. And Jack said, we're starting to read things that have no truth to them at all. Some people have questioned our integrity. I don't like that, because we're honest people. We never thought it would run away like this. You wanted it. You wanted to be in the spotlight a little bit. I know.

Unfortunately. So as public interest in the case began to slowly die off, the voices of the critics and skeptics were growing louder. Oh, no. But not all of them were accusing the family of dishonesty or fraud. Stephen Kaplan, the director of the Parapsychology Institute of New York, actually said it was a bit more involved than that. I'm not trying to make fun of this family. He said, what you have here is someone taking a cause of psychokinesis and blowing it up into a story about demons. Yeah. He actually

believed a lot of what the family had said about the attacks going on within the home, but where he differed from the warrants, however, was how it came to be the cause. Okay. For one thing, he didn't believe in demons, and for another, he was suspicious of the warrants involvement in the case. He had actually investigated the Amityville case himself, and he didn't think that case had anything to do with demons either in Norde do I. But he, and that's why he was worrying about the warrants motivations going public with this case too. Because he was worried it was all going to take kind of a similar path to the Amityville case. Yeah. And he said, normally when you investigate a case like this, you don't publicize it.

No. Like that was his main issue. That makes... Okay, so making our way to Reverend Alphonse is troubled. Obviously. Yeah. What a fucking name. Yeah. The priest from St. Bonaventure University. Yeah. Yeah. He was invited by the Strenton diocese to investigate the matter. Like I was saying earlier, they were like, we're going to send a priest out there. He's going to investigate and we'll decide how to move forward. So he was very skeptical when he went out there. He told reporters he was looking into the matter at the request of the local diocese

I feel like Rachel from seven deadly centers. Yeah, I can't believe that I have a diet and also deadly diocese Yeah, go listen to Rachel on seven deadly centers Rachel and crack and Rachel and Greg on Deadly diocese. It's really great guys. I'm serious. We're really into it But I just I've just never said diocese so much. Yeah But so he he told the reporters he was looking into the matter at the request of said diocese so much. Yeah. But so he, he told the reporters he was looking into the matter at the request of the diocese to determine whether the manifestations quote are true and not just a matter of misjudgment, hallucination

or illusion. Illusion. Illusion. It's Chris Angel here. Oh my gosh, mind freak. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, mind freak. So among the skeptics who, you know, were less confident, Oh my gosh. I mean, freak.

So among the skeptics who, you know, were less confident about the smurls and the warrants were telling the truth. So among the skeptics who were less confident about the smurls and warrants were telling the truth and, you know, kind of just were like, I don't know about this. And among the people that were like not shy about sharing their opinion with the press, Paul Kurtz. Oh. I mentioned him before.

He was a member and spokesperson for the committee of for the scientific investigation of claims and paranormal, also known as CSI-COP. Oh, yeah, I mean, I know Paul. Do you know Paul? CSI-COP. Yeah, that's fun. CSI-COP.

Yeah. Well, Kertz, he saw a lot of similarities between the Smurls claims and many other cases involving the warrants and not led him to his doubts. He said, it seems to us, you know, over at CSI cop. Yeah, Paul and everybody. That a great to-do has been made about it. And we wonder if it's like the Amityville Horror Hoax, which was based on imagination rather than on actual hauntings. So despite his skepticism and his general distrust for the warrants, the members of CSI cop,

that's just what I'm calling it. At 100%, obviously, why wouldn't you? They were more than willing, actually, to go out and investigate the family's claims themselves and offer assistance if they could. I like that, but those offers were either completely ignored by the smells in the warrants or just flat out rejected.

I wonder why. Me too, it's crazy. That's wild. So the thing, yeah, the smurls refusal from this large organization, with the knowledge and the resources to explain and possibly even end their ordeal, seemed pretty strange to most people. All you're doing, your whole claim with going forward with this was to get help. Yeah. And then those people were like, hey, hey, we're over here.

Hi, we have help. We can help you. And then they were like, no, no, we don't want that. Like that's a little ridiculous. So when, when Kurt's there, reached out to Janet Smirl to offer assistance, she just kept putting him off. She told them, you know, she would get back to him, but she would never call him back. That kind of thing. That's green. She was kind of ghosting it.

Yeah, that would make me ghosting him. That's funny. Oh my God. I actually didn't need to be too, but like, good catch. I like that. But you know what CSI cop was? What was it? Undeterred. I figured. I always knew they were. They were undeterred. So they referred a team of local affiliated investigators to the Smurls. And after a few brief conversations, the Smurl family actually did agree to let them come out to the house and investigate. Like, it took a little poking and prodding, but they were like- Which you shouldn't have. It shouldn't, no.

Definitely should not have, especially when you said that's your whole goal. Yeah. But they were like, you know what? Okay, come out. But when they got to the house, they were met by Ed Warren and Jack Smirl. Oh. And apparently Jack had changed his mind. And he and Ed refused to allow the team to go inside the house and actually demanded that

they get off the property immediately. So like, that's going on. That's rude. You, first of all, you said no to me. And then I was like, please. And you were like, okay. And then you were like, actually, get out right now. It's the end of you and me.

And to wait until you've packed all your shit. Right. And brought it out to the location, and then you're like, actually, no. It's like, I bought a button-up shirt for this. I got new pants at Target. Like, what the fuck? What the hell?

No, that's not right. You're gonna show me like, she's gonna joke me. It's a verb. Yeah. So the refusal to allow the team inside, I don't know if you see it this way, but I do as a major red flag.

Yeah, I would question that. The members of CSI cop also felt that way. They were like, that's fucking thus weird. That's suspicious. So the CSI cop investigator Richard Bunch,, he told reporters and I thought of you when I heard this quote. It said, good science says, first let's rule out possible fraud.

Yeah. Let's be careful. Let's be critical. Let's be unemotional. Today, there are a lot of emotion here and a lot of secrecy. I want to open things up and look at things fairly. He was like, I want to do good science. I like that.

I like that. He's like, I want to remove all the secrecy and the emotional bullshit from this and I just want to look at what's happening and tell you if it's real or if it's fake. And then when if I say, I don't know, it seems like it might be real, then we'll delve a little further into this. Exactly. You're not even letting me get to that point. But you wonder why?

I wonder if it's real. Why wouldn't you want me, a pillar of the scientific paranormal community, to go in front of the media and say, this is real and we need to investigate it. Exactly. Huh. I agree.

Also, he's giving Capricorn vibes. Thank you. He really is. But so that's the thing. They're refusal to allow CSI cop into the house, not enough to stop the organization. Like I said, undeterred. Yeah, they're a Capricorn. So what they did, they are as an organization a Capricorn. You cannot tell them now. Can't stop them. So what they did was they just started organizing. No, they didn't start.

Well, like they, yeah, they probably did organize some things and then they started investigating off the property, off site. And they came to several conclusions about the Smurls claims. Now, the biggest issues for the independent investigators now doing this outside of the house, the biggest issues for them were that the only supposedly documented evidence of the activity in the home was suspiciously unavailable, like we said. of the activity in the home was suspiciously unavailable, like we said. And they also were like, the only investigators allowed in this house are Ed and Lorraine or their people. And any attempt being made so far to understand this phenomenon relied entirely

and exclusively on a Christian framework, which like, that's fine if that's what you believe in, but it limits you, but it does limit you greatly. Yeah. And whenever the warrants were asked by reporters on multiple occasions to produce that video that they had or any photos of activity that they also claimed to have, every single time Ed Warren kept putting them off,

he said, quote, he had loaned them to a TV company but didn't remember its name, or quote, they would be released in time, but only to the Roman Catholic church. It's like, the church doesn't even wanna help you here. What the fuck are you giving them videos for? And also, they asked you for the videos, and you said a whole burn through them.

Yeah. So it's the story. What is the story here? And the war is, weren't the only ones giving weird stories. The Smurls also adopted a very vague explanation when that asked the same question. They would tell reporters, quote, they don't own the tapes and that if they allowed one or two journalists to stay overnight, they'd be delusional.

Delusional. Delusional. Delusional. Delusional. Delusional. Delusional. Delusional. Delusional.

Delusional. Delusional. Delusional. Delusional. Delusional. Delusional. Delusional. Delusional. Delusional. requests from other reporters, which I guess is a fair point. But it's like, at least release some pictures, because you're going to the media so often, why can't you just give them a couple of questions? That's a thing, just give them a little bit.

Right. So in time, the press, much like the public, started to wonder why the smirls were being so secretive. And now at this point, they were refusing to talk to any quote, unsympathetic members of the press. So the number one people you don't want to piss off in the story like this are the press. Yeah, especially when they were helping you

in the beginning. That's the thing. And when Janet Smirl was asked about all of this during an interview with an ABC News program featuring Paul Kurtz, our guy, Janet claimed that she actually had contacted CSI Cop a year earlier, but it was that organization that had told her

that she had been watching too many late night horror movies. Membrane said that earlier. Yeah, that's not good. That's not good, but she didn't have any proof of that. Well, that's the thing. And also, it's okay to be skeptical at first. This is your chance to shine. Exactly.

This is your chance to prove. And wrong. Like, wouldn't you want that if you are very confident in your own truth? at first, this is your chance to shine. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly told that. Exactly. Exactly. But during the interview, Kurtz actually said that was completely false.

He said, although this sounds like good advice, we have no record of having received such a call. We invariably ask that the caller send us a letter giving all the facts, and we have no such letter on file from the Smirals. I mean, whenever you ask for proof of something over and over again and they don't provide it to you, it's probably fucked up and fit, like, I don't know. It's weird, I don't know when someone's not willing

to provide the receipts, but they have them according to them. I don't know about it. I don't like it. I don't know about it. I've been in that position before and I've been like, show me the proof. There's been several times that I think we both see this happen.

Yes. Where you're like, show me the proof of that. Show me that that actually happens. And they're just like, and then I do what Carrie and Laura from Sup, another great podcast you should listen to. Truth. You just say, so you say, so you say, so you say, so you say, so you say, but some people run with it. Yeah, yeah, they do. But now that the Smirl seem to be gaining a more, you know, adversarial

tone with anybody other than Ed and Lorraine Warren and more and more inconsistencies were starting to build within their story, this was when the press shifted their tone publicly and even the public itself started even gaining more suspicions. Yeah, I mean, I could see that. So according to Jack, the surgery caused short-term memory loss and that the operation had no bearing on his family's claims that the house was possessed by demons. He was basically saying two completely separativeness.

Yes, okay. And as for why they had become so closed off at this point, he told reporters, Jack, if there's action taken in this house, it's got to be from a religious point of view. So he was like, basically, I don't want anybody investigating this. That is not affiliated with or believes in the church. Which like, okay, again, I think you're limiting yourself. Yeah, I mean, that's just a limited scope, right?

So when you're only looking through one lens, it's hard to see anything else. And you're not seeing the forest pass the trees at that point. Exactly. And so skeptics and all the press and everybody that was starting to get pissed off about this, they obviously disagreed. And also, so did a psychiatrist named Dr. Robert Gordon.

We got a doctor up in here. Dr. Gordon. Dr. Gordon. Not the one from Saul. I don't think. What's that? Carrie Elwis in here. Dr. Gordon. Dr. Gordon. Not the one from Saul. I don't think. What's that? Carriel was played. Ooh.

Well, in a prepared statement written on behalf of CSI cop, he suspected that the family might be suffering from a kind of shared hysteria, quote, similar to that prevalent during the Salem witch trials. Shared hysteria is fascinating. Fascinating. And I think we're going to cover more of those because it's a fascinating phenomenon. during the Salem witch trials. Shared hysteria is fascinating and I mean. We're gonna cover more of those because it's a fascinating phenomenon.

I think I agree with you in this particular case. And I'm seeing that way in demons and I believe in hauntings. That's the thing. In this case, I think it might have been a shared delusion. A shared delusion kind of thing. So do you say, and it's like, it kind of feels like they believe it. Oh, I think they think that's part of shared hysteria and shared delusional. Right. They aren't lying. That's the thing. They're not like willingly being like, fuck you, I'm telling you a fabrication. Like they're not

spinning you a yarn on purpose. No. They believe what they are telling you. Because that's the thing. I think there's multiple viewpoints on this story as a whole. And I think one of them is that they were telling the truth and that like they got fucked over. Yeah. I think another viewpoint is that like they were not telling the truth and they did this to get famous. Yeah, for sure. And then I think this is the viewpoint that I have.

They did this because they were genuinely terrified and believed it. But I think it was a hysteria. A shared hysteria. It was like, I think it was a hysteria. A shared hysteria. It was, I think they truly did see those things that they thought that they were seeing. And it could absolutely be a little bit,

a little sprinkle of all three as well. I love a good schmorgasport. You know, we love, it's kind of like a girl dinner. That's like a thing now. Girl dinner. It's a TikTok thing right now. And it's, you know how how you just will throw together a dinner with like, you know, fucking chickpeas and some salsa

and tomatoes. To make it look like just, honestly, that's a real dinner. Like, just, this is a show. This is girl dinner. Girl dinner equals three cubes of cheese, a couple grapes, a Capri Sun and a cookie. Oh, that's a girl dinner?

Yeah. Girl dinners just like random shit thrown together. But it can be like more than like two grapes, right? Oh my, it should absolutely be like a handful. Yeah, like many grapes. Okay, I was like, is that what girl dinner is? No, it doesn't mean like, it just means. Oh, okay, I thought I had it wrong and I was like,

Oh, no, you're a dinner sound. I don't like girl dinner. Your dinner sounded like an actually good prepared dinner. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, girl dinner is three pieces of turkey, few cubes of cheese, a handful of grapes, a handful of grapes, a Capri-san always. A Capri-san sounds great.

And like a chumps beef jerky stick. There you go. There's like some random ass shit. Yeah, just like whatever you can cobble together, that makes sense. Okay, I thought I just thought I had the wrong idea of it. And I was like, oh no, am I like? No, girl dinner's great.

I thought I was like, I thought girl dinner was fun. No, girl dinner is fun. Okay, girl. And girl dinner is what you make it, so let's make it raw. It's whatever the hell you make it. But what was the point? Oh, because I was saying,

I was saying the outcome of this, you were saying this like really three viewpoints here that they experienced this for real. They got fucked over and they didn't get the justice they needed. Or that they outright lied to get the media attention and the fame out of it. They knew what they were doing, but a boot. Or the third one is this shared hysteria

where they really felt like they were experiencing these things and they were, you know, it was just growing within their family. Exactly. And I was saying it could be like a little sprinkle of all three, too, kind of like a girl dinner of all the various options. Woop, there it is. But who are we to say? Who are we?

I don't know. And Dr. Gordon felt the same because he was like, you know, Jack Smirl is not a patient of mine. So I can't comment on his personal health. He's like, I don't live there. But he did note that the surgeries and potential injuries to the brain often cause lingering symptoms that can mirror those of a psychotic disorder.

Okay. In a letter he wrote, a shared tension might cause mass hysteria with shared symptoms, which could involve delusions or hallucinations. The family strong religious beliefs in demonology might serve to bolster the delusional system of belief. Something terribly wrong may be going on in that family system that has nothing to do with demons. That's true. So I do think I slightly agree with that. Like, I mean, I could see it.

I could see it. I have no fucking clue, but I could see that absolutely. Right? So while curts and members of CSI cop continued pushing to investigate the smirral home and, you know, continuing to investigate it on their own, the public and press at this point, so we've gotten, we've gone with them where they were happy and they were like so excited to read more about this, started wavering, had questions, then were met with kind of like, oh, like I don't like that. Now they're just like, I don't give a fuck about this

story at all. Because now you now you've overstayed your welcome. That's exactly what it is. You push back on too many things, but then welcome to other things. So I think people get over that. Exactly. And I'm just not going to give it the attention. Exactly. So people, these were like kind of like their final thoughts.

Yeah. One neighbor told a reporter, they're trying to get a movie made in West Pits and that's all Pits didn't, excuse me. And then another neighbor, Bernard Radsvin, which is another fucking dope ass name, he lived a few doors down from the family and he said, it's a lot of malarkey. There's people been living in this neighborhood 30 years and didn't have nothing happen. The kids, rather than the demons, are all that screaming around here. I love Bernard. Bernard, Radson, Radson, forever. I really love Bernard.

I love that he's like, I've lived here my whole life and I haven't seen demons walking down the street, not once. He's like, kids, not once. No fucking bunch of them. Loud little shit, demons. Nah. Haven't seen one.

Don't believe it. And even the family's parish priest, Reverend Joseph Adonizzo, took a cautious position on the matter. He said, we're going to pray for their peace of mind. We can't pray to remove the demons because we don't know for sure yet that they're there. I think that is as close to a sick burn slash roast that you will get from your from your local reference. I think so too. It's like we're gonna pray for you. You know what? We'll pray for you. We've got you. But the smurls and the warrants, they didn't like that. They were becoming even more

antagonistic now that people are losing interest. They're mad. And they're still feeling like they're going through this. So now they're feeling shunned. Yeah, exactly. So reporters began taking a far less serious tone when it came to the story, and that's what was pissing them off. And an example of this is Jill Porter wrote in the Philadelphia Daily News. It's a little ridiculous. She said, as a reporter, I think a certain amount of skepticism is healthy, but I can't understand why the public is so suspicious of the smurls when so many homes are beset by similar unexplained happenings. Why, just yesterday, my friend Ellen was telling me of the demons who have turned her summer house at the seashore into a nightmare. She returned from the beach the other day to discover

a paper cup had been stuffed down the toilet, stopping it up and requiring a very expensive visit from the plumber. None of her three sons aged 15, 12, and 9 had any idea how it happened. Of course, though, they were all home all afternoon. Basically, she was like, you don't have demons, you have kids. I was going to say so she's literally like, I can't imagine. She's just being like, every home in the country with kids and it goes through the same thing. How can we just ignore that? Yeah. Ignore that paranormal.

Shut that. Yeah. What a coincidence. Send the warrants to my friends Beach House. Is it weird that the kids are home all the time when this happens? No. Not at all.

No. That's high brow. That's a tire. That's high brow, a tire it is. Honestly, her article was gentle, though, compared to some of the others written and published at the time. Frances DeAndrea wrote in the Times Tribune, most folks are too sophisticated to say that they believe in demons. I mean, I'm not. All right. That's it. That's what I mean. He got a little step back. He got a little satire. I'm not with you anymore. No, I'm not there either. But he said that. And he said, not the smurls.

They didn't try to hide their ghosts in the family closet. No seri. They told everyone about the visitors from the spirit world and all the nasty things the ghosts have been doing to their family, their dog and their furniture for the last 18 months. All right. Okay.

I mean, like, I would have been with you a little bit, but I'm not, but he was rude a little bit. Yeah, you were rude. Now, Jim Collins, the reporter that had accompanied actor Jason Miller, who played in the exorcist, into the Smirral Zone less than a week earlier wrote, at the tail end of a dull August, nothing turns up the small town grapevine, like having a neighbor who works in the local bubblegum factory announced that he has been sexually assaulted. I'll say repeatedly by a crone like ghost.

So basically what he was saying was like, I think they're trying to stir up a story because it's the tail end of a dull August. I mean, yeah, we're entering into fall, you know, get-time spooky seas and let's- Get spooky with it. Let's get spooky with it. But I mean, that's a lot.

That's one way to say it. That's a lot to spice up a Dalogas. So to say. And he was referring when he was talking about this, mostly to a very disastrous press conference held in the Smurls backyard at the end of August. Most of the comments or questions were at this point intensely mocking

like the Smurls, obviously. And one person said, do you think you can arrange for a night with me in the succubus? Which, like, that's really mean. And also, because especially, again, if he had this brain surgery, and that happened to be a complication afterwards

that he's dealing with, like, hysteria and delusions, now you're making fun of him. Well, that's the thing. It's also, whenever I see like adults believing and using other adults, I'm like, that's pathetic. It is. Like, regardless,

whether regardless of whether you think they're pathetic or not, right. You're on their level and to the case, like you're sitting there in their backyard. Exactly. Oh, can you make the ghost have sex with me too? It's like, get out of here, fucking Sally, like see you later. Exactly. And it's the ghost have sex with me too? It's like, get out of here, fucking Sally.

Like, see you later. Exactly. And it's like, do you have nothing better? Like, that's the thing. Your immersed in this shit. So you don't live your life. What are you saying about yourself that you're sitting here?

Yeah, let them think they have demons. Why is it bothering you? That's the thing. People insert themselves in these things. And it's like, it doesn't have anything to do with you. If you don't want to hear about it, don't hear about it. Exactly. And just to explain, we don't always anything to do with you. If you don't want to hear about it, don't hear about it. Exactly.

But just to explain, we don't always use this amount of quotes in a story, but just to explain why I had used them, I feel like this story is such an interesting statement on how people in the press and just in general will believe something so haltedly one day and feast upon it and then fucking turn the next day. Oh yeah, well that's the way. They is like you hoist someone up and you believe them and support you,

and then you smack them down as hard as you can once they've reached a certain point. And that's exactly what happened to this family. And it's like whether they were telling the truth or not. Yeah, that's exactly what happened. Exactly, like it just turns. I just think it's like standing there and like mockingly asking them questions and stuff.

It's like, I don't know why you think you're better. Because you're just point. Because you're sitting there doing that. I'm like, that's like loser behavior. Loser behavior. You're like, you're a loser. Like just go, be like, okay, I don't believe them. Bye.

Exactly. Talk about it with your friends. Yeah, key key. I just think in their backyard. To be mean to someone's face is like, yeah, exactly. I don't know about that. No, like it. It's just spreading more negativity,

which is gonna create demons for you a little bit. Yeah, exactly. In the backyard. Yeah. So, but you know, safe to say that press conference, you know, didn't end on the phone. I know. But the final nail in the coffin came in the beginning

of September 1986, when the press reported that what a neighbor told them previously was true. The smurls were in negotiations with star productions to sell the rights to their story for a feature film. But again, I think you could say multiple things on that. One, they're a family of, they're like a pretty big family and they have four mouths to feed.

So perhaps this did happen and they need to make money off of it. And they see an opportunity. Absolutely. Or perhaps this was the goal all along. You never know. We don't know. But for skeptics, the fact,

this fact confirmed the suspicion that they said always been about fame and money for them. And I can see that. I can see anything. Yeah, exactly. And star productions, President Ralph Lama, came forward and said, we have had several discussions. We haven't signed anything yet, but we hope to.

It's going to make a hell of a movie when it's finally made. I mean, it would. He confirmed it. And Janet Smirl expressed her disbelief at the statement telling reporters, I don't believe this. Obviously the press is making things up now. We have no comment. Because she wouldn't say either way.

All right. Now, it should be said that whether the Smurls were actually involved in talks with star productions at this time is pretty unclear. But within four years of this news going public, they had not only sold their rights for, excuse me, they had not only sold their rights to their story for publication of a book, but that book was adapted and made into a made-for-television movie, titled The Haunted.

So they didn't get some stuff out of it. Yeah. And in a later story published with the Philadelphia Enquirer, reporter Bill McAndrew contradicted Janet's claims that she couldn't believe this whole rumor. And he said he actually had been present for one of the family's meetings with the star productions president there.

Oh. So that was pretty much the end of the spectacle though. As soon as people found out that there was a pending like film deal, it shattered their confidence in the story. Yeah. And of course, there was still a handful of family and friends and you know, like devout Catholics that went to church with them, that believed them. But the majority of people had had enough.

And by late October, the smurls maybe trying to spice things up, they were calling the press to report that the demonic activity had miraculously ended. Oh, after the movie deal, after the whole debacle, and the ended and October. I was like, I feel like the ghosts do not take vacation on October. Or maybe that's their busy season. So they were like, we gotta get out of here. They sat on to the next one. Yeah, they were like, we've got shit to do.

Oh, come, come. Jack and Janet told reporters, we believe that the elimination of our problem can only be credited to the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary, Saint Michael the Archangel, and to the sacred heart of Jesus, who have answered our prayers and the prayers of the thousands of others

through the rosary. Took the words right out of my mouth. That's what I was gonna say. Yeah, well, yeah. Now, CSI cop there, even though they never gained entrance into this house, they were never allowed. They still completed their investigation from afar.

CSI cop. CSI cop forever. And they offered insight into a possible explanation for the haunting. In his report, Kurt's concluded, quote, our investigation of the smearl case thus far, this far points to several possible alternative explanations for what has allegedly been happening, without the need to invoke the occult or a paranormal one.

Okay, he said there was a faulty sewage pipe, which could account for the strange horrible odors that were reported by the smurls, and that it was a known problem within the neighborhood, and it actually been reported to the town managers many times. That's horrifying. Horrifying itself.

And then the team also managed to track down the previous residents of the house. They had lived there for 17 years and they reported never having any problems or experiencing anything unusual. Okay. So ultimately, Kurtz and his team of investigators believed that at the urging of and with the encouragement from Ed and Lorraine Warren, the smurls got very caught up in the excitement of this moment and that it was dramatically increased by the intense press interest and everything took off from there. And they said, as for why the public spectacle got so far out of control, Kurt said, the

fact that the Smurls have signed a book contract, where he's a serious question about their motives. I mean, yeah. It's in it does. I get it. I'm not saying that they're lying. I'm just saying it definitely makes you think for sure. But what an interesting story because regardless, it's an interesting story. You really like, I don't know if the house was haunted one way or the other, but like, wow, they went through it either way. That's it, and they went for it. But they got through it.

All around it, inside it, they just, they did it. And at the end of the day, they made their fucking movie, they got their fucking book written. So it's like, you know, and it, it's like, they, they, if they were lying, they spun an interesting yarn. An interesting enough yarn, yeah. Yeah, that I guess didn't really hurt anyone.

No, you know? Honestly, it's funny, because usually in haunted stories, I'm looking for the haunted stuff. Oh yeah. And the Bobby Mackey story, all the different things that happened there. I was like, oh shit, that's interesting.

And this story, I was more interested in how people perceived them. And it really is interesting to me that whole grown adults will make these things up. Absolutely. It's happened. And it is very interesting to me how far they'll go with these stories. Again, I'm not saying they made it up. I don't know. I wasn't in that house. No. But it is interesting when you do find out, like, the lutsus, like, the lutsus admitted that they, that it was a hoax. Right.

And it's like, so you just like went for it. Like just full sense. And it's like, did you guys have a discussion about this? Did you game plan it out? Was there an outline? That's the thing. You know, especially with the Lutsus too, because you think about it, like, you know,

young couple just typing. I can't imagine just sitting on the couch with Drew and being like, what do you think of, like, if we like went to the fucking press room of like this place is haunted as fuck. You want to fake a haunting? Like, I'm trying to fake a haunting. But that one, it's real.

Like what? Just like, how does that conversation start? And then you're like, you're right. It's just very interesting. Imagine sitting on the couch with John and being like, I got a fucking game changer idea. You know, I got a date night. You want to fake a haunting?

I got a date, you're all planned out for us. See how long we can stretch this thing? You like the press? You like the press? Yeah. They're about to love us. It's so strange. It really is.

But I don't think their game plan accounted for it going terribly, terribly wrong in everyone turning on them. I don't think so either. But what an interesting story regardless. Very interesting story, the Smurls. The Smurls, that's how I got free out of the name, like, Smurls, it's gotta be good.

It does, so we have to keep listening. And we hope you. Keep it. Weird. But not so weird that you're mean to people and you doubt their story right off the bat. You know, I'll do that, too. But like, definitely investigate. See you, Si't do that, it's rude. But like definitely investigate.

See us atop all the way through. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. you can listen ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.