Morbid - Episode 510: Alvin and Judith Ann Neelley Part 2

Episode Date: November 9, 2023

On September 11, 1982, Ken Dooley, a Youth Development Center employee in Rome, Georgia, was shot at in his home by an unseen attacker. The following day, Dooley’s coworker, Linda Adair, was also attacked when someone threw a Molotov cocktail at her house in an attempt to kill her.  Although neither Dooley nor Adair knew it at the time, these were the first attacks in the violent crime spree of Alvin and Judith Ann Neelley, a married couple whose brutality would shock in and around Georgia in the fall of 1982.Thank you the the incredible Dave White of Bring Me The Axe Podcast for Research Assistance.ReferencesAnniston Star. 1982. "Woman seeks juvenile status in slaying." Anniston Star , December 2: 28.Associated Press. 1982. "Probe covers two states in death, disappearance." Anniston Star, October 6: 10.Birmingham Post-Herald. 1982. "Jury indicts Mrs. Neelley on capital murder." Birmingham Post-Herald, October 29: 2.—. 1982. "Neelley's wife sits while he talks." Birmingham Post-Herald, October 22: 2.—. 1982. "Suspect in canyon deaths gives details of 7 more slayings." Birmingham Post-Herald, October 22: 1.—. 1982. "Woman killed 2, authorities charge." Birmingham Post-Herald, October 16: 1.Columbus Enquirer. 1982. "13-year-old found dead." Columbus Enquirer, October 1: 7.—. 1983. "Neelley jury suggests life without parole." Columbus Enquirer, March 23: 1.Cook, Thomas H. 1990. Early Graves: The Shocking True-Crime Story of the Yongest Woman Ever Sentenced to Death Row. Boston, MA: E.P. Dutton.Dunnavant, Bob. 1983. "Jury hears 'robot' defense." Birmingham Post-Herald, March 10: 1.Judith Ann Neelley v. State of Alabama. 1985. 494 So. 2d 669 (Court of Criminal Appeals of Alabama, March 12).Morning Press. 1983. "Neelley to get death penalty." Morning Press, April 19: 1.Neelley vs. Alabama. 1989. 88-5806 (United States Supreme Court, January 9).Thompson, Tracy. 1982. "Luck, guesswork led to suspects." Atlanta Constitution, October 16: 23.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening to a Moved Network podcast. Hey, Weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is more bed. Yeah, it's super more bed because it's part two, right? Yeah, it's part two of Alvin and Judy Neely. Two fucking monstrosities. Yeah, this is, it's a rough one.

I hope you guys were, how you do an after part one. Yeah, you okay? I know it's just like this one, there's not a large, you know, body count here, but my goodness, the one, the victims are just, first, like to have them be children. And the way they do it is just like nothing. It really bothered me.

Did they go after another teenager or slash child in this one? No. But it's another young woman who is bad. I mean, it's sad all the way around you. Yeah, it really is. So when we last left you, police had found Lisa Millican's body, 13-year-old, Lisa Millican, who was lured away from a mall

when she was on an outing with a group from a home for neglected and abandoned girls. That's so terrible. And she was held for a manor. I think it, I believe it was four days. That's a hell. Because they were going to different motels and everything. She was repeatedly sexually abused.

She was, I mean, she was held there. Who knows what else happened? Right. And she was eventually injected with basically cleaning products. Like dish washing products, cleaning products, buy Judy Neely. And who does times and then thrown into a canyon

after being in shot in the chest? Do they know were they able to determine when she had been injecting her with the cleaning products? They believe it was when she was tied to the tree at the same outside. And she didn't die right away. So she was shot in the chest and thrown over the canyon. Like God.

Yeah. It's horrific. It's like unthinkable. Truly. Um, so that's where we left you, which is a pretty horrible note to leave you on. Investigators really did do their due diligence in this. They were trying their hardest. They were going after every lead. When we talked to you in part one, all the departments are working together right now, which is great. And it's going to help them stop this quicker,

but unfortunately not quick enough for someone else to die. Okay. So on the afternoon of October 3rd, Diane Bobo was on her way to work at a Hardee's restaurant in Rome. Unfortunately, she ran out of gas near the Thornwood School. And it was this whole ordeal she went through where it was like,

she ran out of gas, and then she tried to push the car, and then she ended up stalling in the middle of this intersection. She had to push the truck off the road. Just going through it. Just a bad morning. And she called her husband from a pay phone, and then she sat on the curb and just waited for him to come. She was like, you know, I gave it my all.

This thing is not starting, so I need help. So while she's waiting, she's by herself. She's just waiting on the curb. And Diane was approached by a young woman she'd never seen before. Mjuda. She later, so as Diane was later able to describe this, so Diane is going to be okay.

She would later describe this young woman as wearing clothes, quote, that looked too big for her and appeared as if she'd been wearing them for several days. So basically, Judy always looks foul when she walks up to people, which I think is by design as well as just by nature. Is she trying to look like a destitute? I think she's trying to look desperate for help. Yeah, she's trying, because she looks younger, she is youngeritute? I think she's trying to look desperate for help. Yeah. She's trying because she looks younger, she is younger. So she's trying

to walk up looking like somebody that's in real trouble and hopefully help somebody will do basically praying on the goodness of others. Yeah. That's always been. And the girl said to her, don't I know you aren't you Patricia Alexander? And I was like, I am not Patricia nor my Alexander. I'm neither of those things. And she was like, I am not Patricia nor my Alexander. I'm neither of those things. And she was like, I was just hoping that she would just go away. Like, I didn't want, I had a shit start to my day. She's like, I don't know this. I'm not Patricia Alexander.

Please go away. Fuck off. But this girl kept looking at her and she kept talking to her. And Diane was like, can you please fucking go away? Like, I'm just waiting for my, like, I don't want to deal with this. Yeah. And she told Diane that she had been out riding around And Diane was like, can you please fucking go away? Like I'm just waiting for my, like, I don't wanna deal with this. Yeah. And she told Diane that she had been out riding around

and she was kind of lonely. So she thought maybe Diane wanted to go for a drive with her. What? And Diane was like on no planet. What I wanna do that? And by no situation would I wanna do that? But she said also, she just seemed off. Mm-hmm.

Something about her, she said her vibes were horrific. Well somebody's asking you, like, you know I'm just bored, I wanted to go for a drive with someone, run the fucking other way. Get out of there. She said the vibes were just filthy. And then she looked over at the girl's car and she saw a child in the car because remember Judy has children. Oh, fuck, I literally forgot that.

I was like, why does she have a child? Yep, and she said, but this girl was telling me she was alone. And she's lonely. And she's lonely. But there's a kid in the car. And she was very, and Diane was like, listen, no, I'm good. And she was like, I, you know, my car just broke down.

I gotta go to work. I'm not driving around with you. And my husband is coming, so like, that's all. And so Judy was like, well, no, I can give you a ride to work. Like when she's getting my car, I'll give you a ride to work. And Diane was like, listen. I'm trying so hard. I just called my husband.

He's on his way. And the girl got even more persistent and was like, get my car. She get my car. Oh. And Diane was like, no. And she finally got super firm with her and was like, no, bitch. Like, leave my presence.

I don't wanna deal with this. And finally the girl walked away. I went back to her car. And she drove off. And Diane, if she drove off right as Diane's husband pulled up on a motorcycle. Wow. Good timing. So later that evening, John Hancock

and his 22-year-old girlfriend, Janice Chapman, were walking home after visiting Janice's mother. They're walking on the side of the road when a brown car pulls up next to them. No, thank you. The young woman driving the car, told the couple she was new in town. She didn't know anyone.

And she wondered if they wanted to drive around with her for a while. Sorry, that immediately makes me think of John Mulaney. I'm new in town. John initially was like, no, thank you. Bye. And told the driver that they didn't actually need a ride. It's fine, like we're good. Because she was like, it looks like you need a ride.

Like I'll bring you where you need to go. Like we can just, you know, we'll be friends. No. But he looked at his girlfriend and Janice wanted to go. Like it was clear. So the thing is Janice had struggled to make friends. She had a lot of social issues in general. So John thought that this was like gonna help.

Oh. He was like, I just didn't want to discourage her if she was actually looking to like connect with another human being. So he was just trying not to like, you know, restore bubble. You know all that. Burst or bubble.

Yuck her yum, you know. That's all I got. So they got in the car. Oh no. Now almost immediately after getting in the car, they noticed something was off. Something was off about the car. Something was off about the car, something was off about the driver, the whole situation.

And so the driver had told John and Janice, again, that she was new in town and didn't know anybody. But after they pull away, she starts talking to a man over CB radio. Oh, and even like that alone is just so creepy. You get in a car with a stranger and then they start talking to someone over CB radio. That's like, so again, we say this all the time

but something that would happen in a movie and you'd be like, yeah, too much. Yeah, and it's like this happened, what do you do? You're already in the car at this point. So it's like, and something about CB radio, man. Ever since Joy Ride. Yeah, Joy Ride has really, and obviously Joyride had not come out yet. So, but they hadn't been driving for a long when they crossed over into, I think it's Chittuga

County. Chittuga. Yeah. Okay. And the girl pulled over to the side of the road beside a very large, very, very densely forested area. Oh, no. And before he could even ask, because he's like, what the fuck is going on? Before he can even ask why the hell are we stopping and pulling over next to a forest? Yeah. The girl turns to John and points a gun at him. Oh, no.

She demands that he get out of the car. And by then, another car had pulled up and a large man got out. Oh, my God. I think we know who these two are, and John was so confused, had no idea what to do. He doesn't know if this girl is going to shoot Janice, shoot him, shoot both of them, shoot herself.

He doesn't know what the hell is happening. He's like, she looked serious. Like, this was not a bluff. Right. And so he did as he was told, and he got in the other car. He was like, I didn't know what else to do. I didn't want to put anybody in danger. Who knows what you would do in that situation?

So both cars drive around the area together for hours. So John is now in Alvin's car. In Alvin's car. And now Janice is in Judy's car. They're driving around for hours. Hour. Until arriving at an isolated area. John was told to get out of the car he was in.

Once he was out of the car, the girl got out of the other car and forced John into the woods. A little ways. Then without warning, she shot him in the back. Oh my God. And just left him for dead and walked back to the car

and drove off with Janice inside. Oh my God. Just walked him into the woods, shot him in the back and left him there. And thought he had died. Yep. But clearly the way you're telling a story, he did not.

No. And it was not. It wasn't very light in the woods. Like there was no natural light coming in and it was already getting dark. It's the night time, right? And so Judy couldn't really see where she had shot John. Okay. She just assumed that whatever she had shot John. Okay.

She just assumed that whatever she had done there, it would be enough to at least prevent him from making it out of the woods. And that eventually he would just die because he wouldn't be able to find his way out of the woods because he's dark. But the bullet had actually gone through his right shoulder. Oh my god.

And it had lodged in his scapula, which is a very painful injury, but it's not disabling. Okay, well, that's great. So, I'm not that's not great, but it's great that he was able to like, exactly. For a minute play dead and then get up. Exactly.

Because not long after the car pulled away, he was able to make his way out of the woods and he flagged down a truck driver who picked him up and drove him to Floyd County Medical Center. And emergency room attendance, we're able to get the bullet out of a scapula. And he was discharged around 4.30 a.m. just an hour and a half after arriving at the hospital. And he talked to a sheriff's deputy immediately.

The way this man just got shot, finds his way out of the woods, hitchhikes to the hospital, gets a bullet removed from his shoulder and after like what an hour and a half they're like, okay, bye. You can leave now. We'll bill your insurance. Then he's like, cool, I'll go to the sheriff's office. I guess. The fuck this man lived a whole last life a matter of a few hours.

A whole lifetime. Oh my. And he's sitting there wondering what the fuck is going on with. He doesn't know where Janice is. White for girlfriend. His girlfriend. And so later that morning, a sheriff's deputy and an agent from the Georgia Bureau of investigation, the GBI, they visited John at home to take his statement.

And at first, they were skeptical about what they heard. He was shot, y'all. ["Halo Fresh"] With Hello Fresh, you got farm fresh, pre-portioned ingredients, and seasonal recipes delivered right to you at West Stop. Skip those trips to the grocery store, and count on Hello Fresh to make home cooking easy, fun, and affordable. That's exactly why it's America's number one meal kit.

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Go to pros.com slash morbid. That's pros.com slash morbid for your free in-depth hair consultation and 50% off of your first subscription order. The reason being that John had a very flat affect and very like monotone way of talking well, because he's just gone fucking through it. Thank you. Today we would look at that and go,

well, he's in shock. He's just associated. Yeah, like it. And also, today I think we look at it a lot more. We've said this in a few other cases as everyone reacts differently to situations. And some people aren't going to react the way that you want them to. And that doesn't mean that they're not feeling the feeling

It just means that they're not portraying the feeling how you want them to I'm sure like his his lack of Emotion combined with his like non-life threatening injury Injury, oh, I'm sure it all kinds of stuff. Yeah, I'm just hand in hand But it just never won't like occurred to anyone at at first that maybe he just talks like this normally. Maybe he's just talking the truth. To investigators, it seemed like he was very casual about having been shot and his girlfriend having been abducted.

And there were other parts of the story that stuck them as a little strange at first. The couple had gotten into the car really easily. And they were like, you didn't try to overpower the driver at any time. At any point, like, you know, they had a gun. They were asking questions, which they should ask, of course, obviously, because we have seen also cases where someone pretends that they are a victim and they are actually part of the whole thing. So it's like, I totally get why they were, they were doubling down on what they had to say, but like you can look at it both ways.

But regard, and again, regardless of what they were suspecting here about John, it did appear as though Janice Chapman had been abducted. So that had really happened. So the case was opened and investigation began. Okay, good. And it was this, which I like that they weren't gonna allow them being slightly suspicious

of John's story to stop them from immediately looking for Janice. So it was not lost either on the press or the investigators that Janice had been taken just a few days after Lisa Millican's body was found in the canyon. Yeah. So detectives were like, it feels like this is more than coincidental. Like these are two young women. There's another young woman involved in the abduction story.

Like it feels. And that doesn't happen all the time. Yeah. And when Rome police played the recordings of the calls to 911 for John, the ones that they had gotten from the bombing and the shooting. All the previous cases.

He confirmed that the voice of the caller was very similar to that of the woman who abducted Janice. Oh, wow. So, Rome police captain Mike Ragland told reporters, there are a couple of similarities, but for every similarity, there's a discrepancy. So, he's just like keeping his, you know, he's keeping on the ball,

which I think is good. Totally. Now, because we think is good. Totally. Now, because we're always also like hammering on anybody who goes in with like a preconceived narrative or just jumps on a narrative and won't look any other way. So I think it's it's safe to say they were going about it in the right way. Now in the days that followed the search for Janice

Chapman grew exponentially in size and scope. I mean, things were starting to puzzle together now. And by then Diane Bobo, our girl who had, who her truck had broken down and who Judy tried to abduct, but she just, she was like, don't talk to me. I'm having a bad day. She had reported her weird interaction. And she, And she said, you know, this sounds very similar to the conversation John Hancock told police about. And he and Jen, you know, he and Jen has had a very similar interaction with a very similar looking girl.

So it's like, this doesn't just happen. And the linkage was further confirmed a day later when a Rome woman called police to report that her 13 year old daughter had been approached by a young woman who tried to lure her into a car. Oh, no. So they were trying to go on like a spree. Absolutely.

And the girl's description of the driver and the car matched the same one given by Diane Bobo and John Hancock. Oh, no. So we're really going here now. Yeah. And there were other similarities too. Like the 38-calibre. Yeah, like let's go. Oh, no. So we're really going here now. Yeah. And there were other similarities too. Like the 38 caliber, yeah, like let's go. Like, come on.

There was at the 38 caliber bullet that was pulled from John Hancock's shoulder was a match for the ones in the Lisa Millican case. I didn't even think of that possibility. So they were able to now put these together and now they're looking at John too and being like sorry. So it didn't take long before the voice on the 911 recordings about Lisa Milligan was recognized as being very similar to the voice of the person who placed the calls to Ken

Dooley and Linda Dare several weeks before all this. And it was confirmed by Dooley and a dare in police interviews that this is the same voice. And to investigators, it was pretty clear that there was at least two people that were terrorizing the wrong community. And now they're kidnapping and trying to murder young women. In some cases, succeeding like this has escalated quite quickly. But the thing was it's like they all seemed similar and they had similarities, but they were random as fuck.

They will that's the thing. Like the calling and threatening to bomb somebody's house or actually going through that is throwing up a small hotel. Throwing a bomb at a small hotel. Shooting into someone's house, a man and a woman, and then killing, abducting and killing a 13 year old girl.

Right. Attempting to do it to other women of varying ages. Yep. But like younger, I guess. Uh-huh. And then abducting a 22-year-old girl and shooting her adult boyfriend. It's all very just like... All over the place.

...willy, fucking nilly. It's like you can't figure out that in the worst part about this was like they have all these connective similarities. Like they can pull this thread through all of them and go, yeah, we know this is the same person, but we cannot predict what they're gonna do next. So there's no predicting and that's like terrifying. Absolutely. So although they had, like we just said,

very little evidence to go on, detectives did believe that their suspects, or at least, you know, the young woman, were probably from out of state. Okay. They also believe that there suspects, or at least, the young woman, were probably from out of state. Okay. They also believe that there was a real connection to the Rome Youth Development Center. Yes, definitely.

Because they were like, we can't figure it totally out, but this gotta be something. So they decided, which was smart, to comb through the records there. Looking for anyone who matched the composite sketches that they were able to put together from the various witnesses who had had this woman approach them. And they decided to cross reference that those ones

with anyone on that list who was out of state. Okay, and after tons of detailed research and work, like real work, they were able to track down everyone on the list and verify their alibis. Wow, except for one. Judith Neely. Judith Neely. Oh, what a bitch. They were able to track down everyone on the list and verify their alibis. Wow. Except for one. Judith Neely. Judith Neely.

Oh, what a bitch. So as Rome police detective Kenneth Kine read through Judy's file, he began seeing, you know, some circumstantial and anecdotal things that at least in his mind linked Neely to the crimes committed around Rome. He was like, you know what, I could see this. Okay.

She had first been arrested for committing a robbery at the same location Lisa Milligan disappeared from. Oh, I didn't even put two together on that. The couple was arrested near the area where Lisa's body was discovered for that robbery. And she appeared to be committing crimes with a man. Y'all. And so a few days later on October 12th, John Hancock picked Judy's photo out of a photo

lineup and said she was definitely the woman who shot him. And later that day, Diane Bobo and the 13-year-old girl who Judy had attempted to abduct in room also identified Judy's photo from a lineup as being the woman who tried to lure them into her car. This is my favorite part of the whole story. When it all just starts coming together. It's like the what we say in the rewatcher. It's the third act montage. Oh, it is because it's just coming. The Scooby game unites and just gets all the evidence together. So based on the identifications, arrest warrants were issued for the arrest of Judy Naley.

Let's go. And as luck would have it, investigators didn't have to look too hard for their suspects, because three days later, on October 9, Judy was arrested in Murphreesboro, Tennessee, for passing bad checks. Are you kidding me? So she had already been arrested. Wow. And that's a add that to the list of bad checks. Exactly.

Unable to make bond, she sat in the Rutherford County jail in a cell where she was repeatedly visited by a man who seemed very anxious every time he came to speak with her. Imagine that. So Rutherford County spokesperson Liseel Butler told reporters, the officers here got suspicious because the man had been in so many times. And a few days later, Tennessee authorities arrested Alvin Neely for not the murders yet or the abductions, but as him being an accomplice to her larceny scheme that she was doing.

So they were able to get him on that smart. On the morning of October 14, 1982, detective sat down to try to pull all the pieces together, but the problem was, they still didn't know where Janice was. I was just about to ask, where's Janice and all of us? And at this point, it's not looking good. No, because now one of them is in jail and then the others visiting.

Yeah, it's like, where's Janice? Right. So after all of this, when they sat down with Alvin, they realized he was a little sniveling coward. Because remember, Alvin is a failure in all ways. And just that one can be a failure. He was a fucking worm. And Kind said, he was just a complete wimp, not too bright, more or less a slob.

He just didn't fit the picture at all. And right then, I thought there must be something real strange in all of this. And he was even more surprised when Alvin told him he wanted to talk about the crimes. But then he said, I didn't do no murder. I ain't never killed nobody. And I was like, well, I think by what you just said, I think you said you killed people.

Yeah. Because I don't know if those double negatives all add up to a positive. But if you ain't never, then you did. Then you did. Because it means you didn't never, then you did. Then you did, because it means you didn't never. So you did. So you did exactly.

So it sounds to me like you just admitted to murder, my friend. Correct. So Alvin's lawyer, William Burton, came to the police station and they all sat down for a formal interview with Alvin Neely. And according to Alvin, he had been with his twins, remember his children. That's so upsetting.

On the night of October 3rd, and he got a call on the CB from his wife. Judy told him she'd picked up two people, and she referred to these people as John and Kay. Kay. Kay is Janice's middle name. Oh, okay. And she said she wanted him to meet them.

Uh-huh. Now, once he drove out to meet them, they all got in, by the way, he brought his children. Okay. Once they all got out of their cars and exchanged introductions, John got an Alvin's car and Kay got back in, and he was a furry terrorist, Kay.

Into Judy's car with the kids. And they all drove around for a little while. Wait, sorry. So the kids are with who at this point? Or now with Judy. And in Janice. Okay, little while. Wait, sorry, so the kids are with who at this point are now with Judy. And in Janice. Okay, Jan, poor Janice. It's like, yeah, what the fuck is going on?

And they're driving around looking for, he said, for a place to buy alcohol. And after they've been driving around for a while, John needed to pee. So Alvin pulled over and let the man out totally. Also driving around for over an hour, trying to find somewhere to buy liquor. Yeah.

We live in America. Yeah. There are liquor stores. You're going to find that. You're going to find that. You're going to find that. You're going to find that. You're going to find that.

You're going to find that. You're going to find that. You're going to find that. You're going to find that. You're going to find that. You're going to find that. You're going to find that. You're going to find that.

You're going to find that. You're going to find that. You're going to find that. You're going to find that. You're going to find that. You're, Alvin said he went to check on the children. Of course. What's the doting father? Of course. We want to make sure that everybody knows that. Get all of this. And so, yeah, I want to go check on the children in the other car, which is when he noticed that Janice was handcuffed to the seat. Oh, just happened to notice that. In the car with the children. By the way. And he said, quote, she was just sitting there in the dark. She was real quiet. She didn't seem to worry about nothing. I doubt that.

I doubt that, highly. Yeah. After he loaded the kids back into his car, these poor kids are just getting shuffled around in the middle of their parents' just abducting people. And we know, I mean, they're probably like toddlers at this point, right?

I don't even know at this point how old they were they yeah I think they were young yeah so Elvin yelled after John and Judy telling them to hurry up but only Judy came back he said be in no one happened no checks no plan there you know didn't hear a shot or anything yeah from there they just went back to the motel room where Judy told Alvin she had shot John oh Yeah once they were back at the motel room, Judy began, now Judy began mocking Janice and making fun of the way she spoke. Oh, I really hate that. But he said Janice didn't seem really bothered by it.

I think she was probably just trying to stay quiet and to stay alive. The next morning, Alvin claimed that Judy and Janice left the motel to drive around for a while, eventually meeting up with Alvin at a local dairy queen. And Alvin said to investigators, quote, she was out of control. I was afraid she might shoot me this time. She's a dangerous person talking about Judy.

Right. And he said, she fire bombed that house in Rome. Oh, shit. And he said that Judy and Janice left the dairy queen together. And when Judy came back alone, she told him she had shot the girl and left her body along a rural back road. Oh. He then drew up a map for investigators, and he signed it.

Oh, wow. Yeah. Now, they later learned this story was at least partially true. Yeah, and put some what? The next day, October 15th, Janice Chapman's body was discovered alongside a royal road in Haywood Valley. She had one bullet wound in her back and two in her chest. That's so sad.

Rome police chief Joe Cleveland told reporters, we don't really have a motive. There was no robbery involved. Wow. So they just killed her to kill her. For no reason whatsoever. And I love that Alvin just wasted no fucking time pinning all the murders on his wife. Every single one. He is the most sniveling little worm I've ever seen. Like she is a piece of absolute fucking garbage. Yeah.

The two of them. She just showed me a picture of that. But I'm like, oh, I know. They're just so fucking foul together. They really are. They're posing in front of a Confederate flag here. Yeah, exactly. Disgusting. Yeah. But he called William Burton and asked if he could also represent Judy.

So he's throwing Judy under the bus. What? And then trying to get her in the lawyer. Now, unfortunately, Judy had an asked for an attorney. So when Burton arrived at the station, investigators refused to let him see her until she asked. Yeah. And so in the meantime, Judy was crafting a defense pretty similar to her husband's, which is, she was claiming it was Alvin, who had killed Lisa Milliken and Janice Chapman.

So now they're just turning on each other. Of course, I was really interested in. They're like my Renean. My thoughts immediately. It just, it just gets the world. And then they get invested. And they're like, fuck that person. They do have to hate them.

Girl, I am scrolling. It's like your love and durs. I am scrolling through pictures right now. And I am just flabbergasted. It just makes sense. It does. Now, according to Judy, she had never been in trouble with the law until she met Alvin,

and she had only engaged in criminal activity because of Alvin. We've seen your rap sheet more or less. And what's sad is that Judy had a beginning to life that was rough, because she seemed to be triumphant in the beginning. That's a cool. And it's like she did really give in to her dark side that was clearly always there. Had to have been. The detective showed her a picture of Lisa Milliken,

who Judy acknowledged as having met at the River Bend mall a few weeks earlier, but she said, I noticed her because she looked like Joni Cunningham, who is a character from Happy Days. Oh. If you look up Lisa Milliken, she's adorable. She does remind me. She is like a Happy Days character.

She's just beautiful. Now, ultimately, Judy made two statements to investigators in Alabama and Georgia. She acknowledged participating in the attacks on the YDC, the youths, you know, the YDC employees. Yes, yes. And the kidnapping and murder of Lisa Millican and Janice Chapman.

So she acknowledged participating in these. Okay. But she claimed she had only participated in the crimes because she was, quote, under the control of her husband, who had physically and sexually abused her. More Bid tells the kind of spooky and macarov stories that send chills down your spine. But few stories are creepier than the one at the center of my new podcast, Ghost Story. Ghost aren't real. At least that's what I've always believed.

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I hear fear will introduce immersive horror and lead you straight into the heart of darkness. Follow I Hear Fear on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. You can listen to I Hear Fear early in At Free right now by joining Wondery Plus. early in at free right now by joining Wondering Plus. Okay. Now, here's the thing. He is a piece of fucking shit. Absolutely. He is a monster.

He has a noted and proven history of being physically and sexually abusive to the women, the girls. I was was gonna say white girls. He's, so that can all be true. Absolutely. That doesn't take your, doesn't mean you're involvement away. Yeah, you did it. And also, it doesn't take it away.

It's like, so your life is just terrible all around. All of it is, and it's like, I don't, there's so much mess here. You know that like, all of these things can be true at once. That's exactly it. That Judy is a fucking monster. She had monstrosity inside of her, and she's a predator. She's a predator.

And it's like, so she, she has that inside of her. Absolutely. And Alvin is also fucking monster and doesn't even hide his monstrosity. It's just right out in the open. He beats the shit out of people he's to boast a love. He threatens to kill his own children. Like he's a piece of absolute fucking garbage. It sounds like so is she. Neither of them knew how to love.

No, they are. So it's absolutely, It's very real to believe that all of this is true at once. I do. That she had this inside of her and that she deserves to be punished for it. And that he also was in control of her and physically and sexually assaulted her to gain control. I believe it. I believe all of it. Yeah. So according to Judy, Alvin had demanded that she find girls and young women for him to sexually assault. And that she only agreed to help because, quote, she was willing to do anything to avoid further abuse. Okay. I believe that up to a point.

Exactly. It's like, nope, you did it. You did it. You literally inserted cleaning products into somebody's body. Yeah, it's like, I don't feel bad or enjoy that part. About that part. Like, I don't feel bad about who you are on the inside. Like, you clearly let it out. This whole thing, that's why this case is so fucked up. It's just like, it is hard to see any of the,

whether it's good or any kind of positive anywhere here. Layers and layers of fucked up. Yeah. A true satinist. A true satinist. You should. Harbor rage. Yes. This abuse trauma. Lows you with sadness.

The more investigators spoke to both of them, Alvin and Judy, the more convinced they became that like what we are saying, neither one of them was telling the full truth. No. And that's how we are kind of saying it here. All of these things can be true and they cannot be true at No. And that's how we are kind of saying it here. All of these things can be true and they cannot be true at all. So just days after Alvin was trying to completely blame Judy for all the murders, he'd come up with a new explanation. He said there were seven other victims. And according to Alvin, he and Judy were quote, recruiters and enforcers. And this is a quote

in a prostitution ring, but not all of the slangs were connected to prostitution. And that was a quote, by the way. Okay. So now he's trying to say that he's working for this ring, and he's an enforcer and a recruiter along with Judy, and that this all has to do with that. Uh-huh. Now based on his statements to police,

Alvin did seem to have some details about the murders of young women that had happened around the state that they hadn't connected to them. But it wasn't super clear whether that was because he was involved in them or he could have just read about it in the paper. It was in the news. Like the things he had weren't, things he couldn't have gotten in the media. He said, or the Georgia Bureau of Investigations Director Phil Peters told the press,

all I can tell you is we're checking it out. There's a lot of misinformation floating around about it, but we have agents talking to them, and we're just trying to evaluate, find out exactly what we have to do to separate the facts from the fiction. This must have been really hard. I can't even imagine.

They seem like two fucking liars. And it's like they're lying about each other and for each other. So it's like this is just, it's a mess. Oh, yes. Now, while Alvin is spinning crazy stories at this point about like these, you know, criminal rings and other conspiracies,

he's going off the deep end. Yeah. Judy remained mostly quiet in her jail style. She kind of stuck to her story that she was just a victim of Alvin. Okay. And that was it. She wasn't going away from it. Well, that was probably her best case scenario. It truly was. Now, to most investigators and among people in the media,

Judy's explanation was, you know, as good as any other. They saw who Alvin was, so it wasn't completely out of the... Well, look at the time line. The time line possibility. They got together when she's how old he has done this previously, with their seeing of everything we've talked about. But detective Kines,

who was the one who had spoken to both of them and had spent a lot of time talking to Judy, he said, I don't know about that. Okay. After hearing what Judy had to say about everything, kind of said, quote, she's mad because she had to serve a little time. It's revenge against the system. So he's saying she had to serve time in the Rome youths,

you know, the juvenile detention center there, which is what those first attacks were after. He's saying she was pissed that she had to do that. Maybe something happened there. She snapped. Who knows? None of us know. Nobody's claiming something did or didn't happen.

She's claiming something happened. Mm-hmm. We have no proof either way. Yep. Something could have happened there, but either way, she's pissed about her time there. Yeah. And he's saying, this is totally against the system. And so investigators really started to hold in on that.

They leave this theory more and they were starting to look more into it. They started speaking more and more with Judy trying to get a little more out of her. And in an interview with Alabama district attorney, Richard, I think it's Ag Igu, I believe it is. I'm sorry, Richard. Judy explained that she liked Lisa and didn't want to hurt her.

And in fact, she claimed she only killed Lisa because she didn't want to get caught and go back to YDC. And what about the cleaning products? Thank you. And here's the thing that they believe. They believe that she was first, it was revenge against the people who worked there. She was going to, could that whole story, that that whole story, the fire bomb, the shooting, and then they had this whole list, they were going to go through, they were going to fuck up everybody who worked

there that wronged her. I think that was real. Absolutely. And I don't know what the reason for it was, whether it was based off of abuse or not, but it certainly could have been. And what they think now is that she started going after like people that were similar to her in that position, like young girls.

She started like, they started together going after. Oh, fucking terrible. It doesn't make any sense. That's like, let's abuse people. But nothing about this is rational in any way. Yeah. It may have even been like subconscious that she was doing that.

Yeah. You know? Yeah, you know. They don't know. They just think this is her being pissed about something that happened to her. Okay. Or that she didn't, she was pissed she had to do time at all. Okay.

I mean, I can see it makes sense. Now on October 28th, a called county grand jury was convened to hear the case against duty for the murder of Lisa Millican. They deliberated less than one day before returning an indictment. And in the three-count indictment,

she was accused of not only killing Lisa, but also of kidnapping and sexual abuse of a minor. Wow. If she was prosecuted to the fullest extent and found guilty, she was going to face the death penalty in Alabama. Wow. Even so, her court-appointed lawyer, Bob French, was convinced that she had

only participated in anything out of fear. And he was, quote, dedicated to a not guilty verdict. And I say, good luck. Yeah. Also, like, of course, you are. That's your job. Now, the problem facing Alvin and Judy's lawyers was that neither of them denied kidnapping and killing Lisa and Janice. They both admitted that they were both there. Yeah, they were both there. Elvin was also an idiot. So he would try to create elaborate stories and lies to save himself. He always ended up actually creating traps for himself to just go lump into.

I mean, good. Yeah. So, this is a trigger warning for this next part because I'm just going to say something about the Lisa Millican thing and it's pretty horrific, it's sexual abuse-related, so I just wanna let you guys know that that's coming. It's just for a second,

so you can skip forward really quick if you want to. Okay. For example, during an interview with GBI agents, Alvin repeatedly denied raping Lisa Millican, but when agents looked at him and said, well, how the fuck then did she have semen found inside of her if you did not rape her? And Alvin said, he just kept denying,

but then he turned it into an outrageous lie. According to Alvin, he said, and this is horrific, he said, Lisa was handcuffed to the bed in the motel room when Judy masturbated him into a dixie cup and then poured it into Lisa. That was his explanation. I actually don't know what to say about that. Instead of just like your cot, your cot, you got caught.

There's no, it is black and white. It is your cot red handed, and you come up with the most wild and just in scuffle. In scuffle. In complex explanation for something that is a black and white like there's no that's on another level stupid this fucking worm was oh that's so heinous and again that was his way of still saying well Judy was part of that. Uh-huh. And it's like, just admit that you're a fucking pig,

that you're a predatory fucking pig, and you've done this your whole damn life. That's so good. Like, you disgusting pig. The fact that his brain would even make that up is so ind- Incomprancipal. Investigators, first of all, must have been sitting there horrified,

but also sitting there and just being like, are you fucking kidding me? Like how dumb do you think we are? Like, do you think you are talking to? And again, with each new lie, he just got himself more and more tangled in his own fucking guilt. Yeah.

And every time he would more or less just admit his guilt again. Exactly. And over the course of the investigation, his story changed repeatedly. First, it was all Judy's idea because she was crazy and dangerous. Yeah. Then he claimed they were enforcers in this ring. And then that whole thing fell apart.

So he started blaming Judy again and telling Detective, she was bisexual. And it was her idea to kidnap and rape the girls. Okay. So now he's saying that like this is her idea and she wanted, she's by. So that's why. It's like, Alvin just literally...

Literally, let it go. Get so fucked. Like it's just, you're so dumb, just admit it. I hate when people, like when they're back into a corner like that. And they just keep going. Because I'm like liars like that when you are literally holding something in front of them

and being like, look, and they're like, no. That's so maddening. Maddening. Like so infuriating. Like that was like my ex-boyfriend when I held up like proof of his cheating, like a literal physical piece of proof and he was like, no, misprint. And it's like, are you,

like he told me a movie theater misprinted a ticket. A movie theater misprinted a ticket. Yeah. Like those kind of people, when you hold a piece of evidence that is indisputable in front of them, and they will lie their way out of it. I have shown someone a text that they sent from their phone.

Yeah. And they sat there and told me that they didn't send it. Yeah. When I had proof that they did. People who lie like that are scary. They just will lie. It's just like they never stop. They will never come out with the truth.

And that is Alvin. The scary thing is you start to wonder if they do believe it with the just fucking like conviction with which they lie and the umph with which they deny that the truth with how they'll defend themselves. Yeah, it's really scary. It's intense. Like really scary. When faced with that, it's unlike anything

you could possibly ever explain. I listened to my ex, if he's listening right now. Fuck you. Honestly, not even, I'm like, well that's from me. Enjoy story time because you definitely remember this. Listen to him in the bathroom, have a full conversation with another girl.

Full conversation, making plans, listen to the whole, heard her voice, could hear the entire thing. Hard and like, like talking back. Oh, yeah, having a full conversation. And then he came out and I said, what the fuck? I just listened to that entire thing. I know you were talking to a girl and he said, I was listening to a voicemail. That's unbelievable. And then you feel crazy. Oh, yeah, because I was like, oh, obviously I'm crazy. That's the other thing.

They will make you do the wildest tales. You'll be like, that probably happens. Yeah, you're like, oh, I'm the crazy. Like I'm being very like, I'm losing it. I'm being wild for even like, I need to check myself before I record. That's what Alvin I think. That's also why he surrounds himself

with younger people because they're easier to dominate likes to control and he obviously likes to have that manipulation tactic under his belt that's what he uses and he's discussing. He's sitting here trying to pull it on seasoned fucking investigators like the Georgia Bureau of investigations and he's sitting there trying to pull that shit. I'm smarter than you. You want to pull it on like a 19 year old girl who thinks they're in love with you. Yeah, it's probably going to work.

Like, oops, I know this. But you try to pull it on some people who have been through some shit. No, no, it's not going to work. They've seen like the worst of the worst. Of course. So it's just for him to pull out the duties bisexual. And it's her idea to kidnap. So she's by. So she wants to kidnap and rape girls. That's the other thing. I know what you're trying to say here, sir, because this was what this was the 70s. Yeah,

it's like the in the early 80s or late 70s. So he's like this terrible thing of bisexuality They just want to guard her abduct and rape young women course like no I think you have actually proven that you do that. Yeah, so good try kind of your ML, but you're both gross So in Judy's case Bob French her quarter points in lawyer. Yes, was having a similar problem because in one interview after another Judy confessed to participating in the assaults on the YDC workers and the kidnapping and murders of Lisa and Janice. So again, similar issue because like,

David admitted it. So what's the case? And faced with two capital murder cases, he filed a motion in early December to have Judy tried as a juvenile. He acknowledged that his motion was pretty unlikely to be approved because of what, like how bad it was.

Yeah, the crime. He said, we would be remiss in our duties if we hadn't asked for the youthful offender status since she is a juvenile. But I seriously doubt it will be granted considering the magnitude of the crime. The fact that she's still a fucking juvenile and this is her right- Still a juvenile. And how many fucking kids does she have? She should just of the crime. The fact that she's still a fucking juvenile, and this is her rap sheet.

Still a cheap denial. And how many fucking kids does she have? Does she just have the two? I mean, at this point, she has three, I think. Three. Yeah. I think, at least two. Wow.

Yeah. So French's motion for youthful offender status was denied. It was denied. And on March 7, 1983, her trial for the murder of Blyse Milliken began in DeColbe County. And after two days of jury selection, openings arguments began with Richard. I think it's I ego, I believe. Okay. Arguing on behalf of the state. Now Richard told the jury of Lisa Millikens harrowing four-day or deal. Oh, call.

Where she endured torture, multiple rapes, and then was injected with caustic chemicals and then shot and thrown off a cliff by Judy Nile. Wow. Like, it doesn't get more heinous. Absolutely not. Judy did this not because they were claiming Judy did this not because she was under duress or because she was being violently abused and controlled by her husband. She did it because she wanted to. And personally, that's what I believe.

I believe she was being violently abused by her husband. Same. And I believe she wanted to do this. Yeah. I believe both those things are true. And like detective Kines, he contended that after a brief incarceration for the robbery at the mall where she was in that juvenile detention center, she had developed an anger and disdain for society and humanity and she wanted a secret bench,

which she took out on girls she perceived to be like her. Yeah, that's wild. Yeah. Now, in her defense, Bob French told the jury, you know, a different, a different side of this story. In his version of events, Judy was quote, beaten and brainwashed into procuring 13-year-old Lisa Ann Milliken as a quote unquote sex partner, which I was like, you mean rape victim. Yeah. For her husband. And then she just followed his instructions and killing the girl and pushing her body into little River Canyon, which is wild to me that like Judy's like, oh, I did it. Like she's not even blaming it on out like she's not even being like

Alvin killed her. He's like, oh, she's like, oh, no, I killed her. Right. And they're having to be like, yeah, she just did it because he told her to. And it's like, I think there's more to it than that. According to French, quote, every move, every action, every thought for carrying out this heinous event was planned, calculated, and instigated by Alvin Neely, who had been violently controlling her actions since the day they met and began a relationship when she was only 15 years old. Again, I think it's all true. And I think she wanted to do it. It's wild to me that all of this happened in the span of like a couple of years. Yeah. Now, in support of his defense of what was then known

as battered woman syndrome that's referred to, he offered testimony from Judy's clinical psychiatric examinations that had concluded that Judy, quote, probably fits the battered women's syndrome to the most severe extent that the psychiatrist had seen. Wow. This is why I do believe all of these things can be true. The psychiatrist also noted that Alvin's mental state

was substituted for Judy's own, resulting in a situation where Judy, quote, had no intense of her own. So French told the jury, Judy was reduced to a robot by this man who saw himself as an extension of Clyde Barrow and his woman as Bonnie Parker. Oh. Who knows? I don't know. All I know is they're both terrible.

That's the thing. That's the thing. It doesn't matter what they think or what they see themselves as. Yeah, I think it's all true at the same time. And I think she didn't do that kind of thing. You don't inject someone with cleaning fluids six times and then shoot them in the chest unless you want to do that. So the district attorney acknowledged that Judy absolutely may have been influenced

by her husband. And you know what? Maybe she wouldn't have acted violently without his urging. Maybe she would have held it all in. But she was still responsible for her actions that she did do. The hypothetical maybe she wouldn't have,

doesn't really have bearing on anything when Lisa and Janice are lying dead in the ground. So they said her plea was not guilty by reason of insanity. And even if it had been, such a plea does not include abnormal behavior manifested by repeated criminal or anti-social acts. And what has happened here is criminal, anti-social, and of the highest degree. So after two weeks of very graphic testimony, a lot of evidence, the jury deliberated for less than four hours and returned a verdict of guilty. Hell yeah.

The circuit court jury recommended ascendance of life hours and returned a verdict of guilty. Hell yeah. The circuit court jury recommended ascendence of life in prison without the possibility of parole. Which I think is very fair. French her lawyer said Judy is in pretty bad shape and he referred to her as a basket case. Again, a quote. Yes, of course.

Under Alabama. Alabama. Under Alabama. That's the fancy way to say it. On Alabama. On Alabama. Under Alabama, la, the judge actually has the right to accept or reject the jury's recommendation for ascendance. Oh, that's interesting.

So although they recommended life without parole, he had the total authority to say yes or note of that. Wow. And when Judy returned for ascendancing on sentencing on April 18, 1983, DeCalled County Circuit Court Judge Randall Cole actually chose not to accept it. Huh. And he sentenced Judy to death.

Shhh. He said by any standards acceptable to a civilized society, this crime was heinous, atrocious, and cruel, agreed. And asked by the judge if she had anything to say on her own behalf, Judy said, I didn't have any feelings. I had no thoughts or feelings except to do what I was told. There's nothing I can do to change the past. I can keep things from happening again.

I can help battered wives, and that's what I want to do. Now I don't know if it was really love or fright from being so scared of him or dependency. One of my biggest pet peeves in murder trials is when the person says, I can't change the past. We know. Because you know what? Everybody fucking knows that.

Particularly, your victims' families know that. Save your breath. And they are living with that thought every day that we can't change the past. So we don't need to hear from you, I can't change. We know that, fucker. We know you can't even do basic algebra. So we're not worried about you changing the fucking path.

That's redundant. Thank you, Judy. What we're worried about is you, a caged fucking animal being let out into society and doing this all over again. Well, and the thing that pisses me off beyond that is when they sit there and say their plans for the future. Yeah.

When they took away what I want to do. Two people's plans for the future. Yeah. And that's great that you want to do that. Did you happen to ask either of those two girls what they plan to do with their futures? Precisely. You... Mmm. two girls what they plan to do with their futures? Precisely. You, it's like she's sitting there being like,

your children's lives are going to be gone so that I can become this wonderful face of this cause. And you know what, they died for me. Yeah, to change lives. And it's like, wow. Like, oh, okay. It was a family member sitting in that courtroom. I don't know how people do it.

I don't know how they do it. I have so much respect for the people out to go through. I don't think I could do it. Absolutely not. I don't think I have the well power. I think like anybody who is able to sit there and control themselves, I think like you deserve a standing ovation.

100% because you're a higher vibrating human myself. Absolutely. Now, hoping to avoid another trial and another potential death penalty for her case in Georgia for kidnapping and murdering Janice, Judy agreed to plead guilty to the charge of kidnapping and agreed to testify against Alvin in exchange for the state of Georgia, agreeing not to pursue murder charges or the death penalty. Wow.

Now, again, she was already sentenced to die in Alabama. So authorities in Georgia were like, I think it's fine. If we agree to this, please do like she sentenced to die. And she's gonna testify against Alvin, which is basically just a win for them. Exactly. Because we're no really win for her there. Precisely.

So having been indicted in March for the murder of Janice Chapman, Alvin was indicted a second time on May 10th, 1983, for the murder of Lisa Milligan. Good. Now, seeing how Judy's trial had ended and the fact that she was definitely gonna testify against him in the Chapman case, Alvin agreed to plead guilty in Georgia to charges of kidnapping with bodily harm and murder, and in exchange, the state was agreeing to not pursue the death penalty.

Interesting. So, I think this is good. He was sentenced to life in prison. Okay. Which I think is great. I agree. is good. He was sentenced to life in prison. Okay. Which I think is great. I agree. I agree. Take it. And he began serving his sentence at Bostek State Prison in Hardwood, Georgia.

So like, by Alvin. See a fucking never. I don't think it's fair that she got death and he didn't. They did the same crimes. Well, you'll feel better. So after she was sentenced, she became the youngest woman ever sentenced to death in the United States. Yeah, because I just looked, I tried to figure out her age. I think she was born in 1965, so she was either, I think she was 17 when she was, oh yeah, in trial. 17 years old and was

sentenced to the death penalty for murder. That's wild. And she was sent to Julia Tutwiler prison for women to await execution death row. Now Now immediately though, obviously, Judy's lawyers filed an appeal on her behalf and they argued that her Miranda rights had been violated following her arrest because law enforcement officers failed to inform her that an attorney had been called to the jail by her husband. Because remember, Alvin does that help? Well, Alvin, so the whole thing was, as a result, her lawyers argued that the statement she made during those early interviews were inadmissible

and she deserved a new trial. The justices disagreed because they said Judy had repeatedly stated that she didn't need or want a lawyer. Right. So, and she had continued speaking freely with investigators. So she had said out loud

I don't need and I don't want a lawyer. Okay, so that negates all that exactly and in their decision They upheld the lower courts conviction and the justices wrote even if Mrs. Nellie's Confessions were inadmissible because of a violation of her fifth or six amendment right to counsel any error in the admission of those Confessions were cured by her own testimony at trial. Right. So they were like, even if that had happened, she testified at trial and said she didn't. Right.

So we don't need those earlier confessions actually because she just said it in the court, play this day. So after more than a decade on death row, Wow. Judy's sentence was commuted to life in prison by governor Fob James, who cited the jury's original sentencing recommendation as the reason to commute it. So 10 years on death row is 27 and gets commuted to life in prison. Yeah. That is my age right now. Yep. I can't imagine

like yeah, but she's such a fucking monster. Yeah. And so they did this because they said that original jury had wanted life in prison without parole. So they are allowed to go back and commute that sentence back to that, which like, I don't know. I don't know if it seems like a little. I got to look further into that. Like I don't want to spout out an opinion without being fully researched. My initial thought is like, huh, but I think in this case, it's a,

because it's like, what the fuck? But I guess it could be beneficial in other cases, if maybe the judge handed out like a ridiculously unfair sentence. Yeah, and I think I'm also moving my opinion on the death penalty so much that I think I'm also just like, if I honestly life without parole, I'm like, that works for me.

Yeah. And I guess in my opinion, it's like, what's the point of having the jury if the judge can just do whatever the fuck they want? Yeah, that's true. You know? But then like, what's the point of the judge if the jury gets the final say?

Yeah, you know? It all kind of is convoluted. Yeah, it really is. But either way, following this whole thing, the Alabama legislature passed legislation in 2003 to prevent Judy becoming eligible for parole. But then changes in the law in 2018 undid that legislation.

I was gonna say, making her eligible as of 2023. Yeah. In May 2023, the state parole board deliberated for less than an hour and denied her parole. I saw that. As of today, she's still in Julia, Julia taught while her prison for women. She's serving out a life sentence, but she will be eligible for consideration for parole again in 2028. Wow. And she's only, I think she's 58 right now, 58 or 59. Yeah. So she could very well still be alive in the then.

The thing is, from what I looked up, I think even if she got parole, she would have to go serve in Georgia. Oh. Because I think she will still have to serve a life sentence in Georgia, so I don't think it will even matter. Interesting.

I'll look it up again and I'll make sure to update it on the next episode. Okay. But I'm fairly certain that from what I read, she will have to continue serving another sentence in another place. Even though they- Executive kind of thing. Because they gave her the plea of taking death penalty off the table, but they gave her love. Okay. So yeah. So I think she'll get parole, and then immediately have to go to Georgia and start serving a life sentence. So why even get parole?

Just don't. That's kind of a waste of everybody's time. Alvin Neely, in case you were wondering, did you like he didn't get death? He did. He got death in the end. He served roughly 20 years of his life sentence. I'm just a lie.

I'm a lie. And then he died in October 21st, on October 21st, 2005, from complications following surgery. Oh, well, yeah. Bye. So it is quite a story. Mm-hmm.

And they are quite a pair. Yeah, they both belong to be locked away and have the key thrown away. Yeah, they sure do. I don't think there's any hope for somebody that can inject another person with draino and dish soap. A child. I don't think. A 13 year old child.

I just simply don't think. Yeah, I don't see you can be able to get past that. But, you know, here we are. Wow, what a horrific case. Yeah, I would really love something paranormal for the next episode, but I personally am working on like an old, tiny one. Ooh, so sorry to some.

I'm sorry to some, but yay to others. Yeah, exactly. And then, I mean, we're gonna be coming up in the next few weeks. We're gonna be hitting you with some, like, pretty gnarly cases, so. Yeah, just be familiar. We'll have a little smattering of spooky in there too,

just to, like, cleanse your palate in between, but don't worry, because there's this rough ones coming. You know, we gotta move away from the most wonderful time of the year. Exactly. Halloween, exactly. Except it still hasn't happened yet. No, technically, weird. Yeah. But anyway, we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird. But not this weird cousin. Hey, Prime Members!

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