Morbid - Episode 513: Mamie Thurman

Episode Date: November 20, 2023

On June 22, 1932, a boy picking blackberries in rural Logan, West Virginia made a hideous discovery when he happened upon the dead and brutalized body of local woman, Mamie Thurman. At first glance, Mamie’s murder resembled a gangland-style execution; she had been shot twice in the head and her throat had been slit from one side to the other, as though whoever killed her wanted to make sure she didn’t survive.The murder shocked the small town of Logan. Mamie was well-known around town as a devoted wife to her husband, Jack, a local police officer, and a good Christian who was actively involved in her church and community organizations. Yet as news of the murder spread, so too did rumors of Mamie’s infidelity and poor moral character. Ultimately, local Black handyman Charles Stephenson was arrested, tried, and convicted in a sensational trial that made national headlines. Yet many felt that conviction was obtained on questionable evidence and, in retrospect, largely the result of racial bias. Was Mamie Thurman really just an unfortunate victim of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or was there a more personal element? Indeed, evidence suggests there was more going on in the case of Mamie’s death than a simple murder and that a number of powerful men conspired to cover up the true motive for Mamie’s death, allowing the true killer to walk free.Thank you to the wonderful David White, of the Bring Me the Axe pod, for research assistanceReferencesCharleston Daily Mail. 1932. "Negro was at killing scene." Charleston Daily Mail, June 27: 1.—. 1932. "Pair guarded in Logan case." Charleston Daily Mail, June 26: 1.—. 1932. "Tests show blood in Logan official's car." Charleston Daily Mail, July 28: 1.—. 1932. "Two men accused of Logan murder." Charleston Daily Mail, June 23: 1.—. 1932. "Two more questioned in Logan murder case." Charleston Daily Mail, June 24: 1.Davis, F. Keith. 2021. Secret Life and Brutal Death of Mamie Thurman. Charleston, WV: Quarrier Press.Hinton Daily News. 1932. "Large crowd at hearing of Logan men." Hinton Daily News, June 25: 1.State of West Virginia vs. Clarence Stevenson. 1933. 172 S.E. 533; 7621 (Supreme Court of West Virginia, December 16).See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening to a morbid network podcast. Are you looking for a meaningful gift this holiday season that your loved ones will actually use and enjoy? Not like, you know, a boring gift that, you know, everybody just gets like socks or something? Well, Skylight is a touchscreen photo frame that you can use to send photos straight from your phone and they appear in seconds. You can easily personalize skylight with gift mode. Gift mode lets you add photos to the frame ahead of time without even having to unbox it. So as soon as the recipient opens their gift and plugs it in,

their most treasured memories will appear on screen. This is the perfect gift for everybody. Grandparents, new parents, load it with baby pictures. Give it to your spouse for commemorating a special event like your wedding. I'm actually gonna get one for Drew, my fiance, he's going to love it. Anything like that.

And as a special limited time offer for our listeners, get $40 off your purchase of a Skylight Frame when you go to AU.SkylightFrame.com and enter promo code morbid. To get $40 off your purchase of a Skylight Frame, just go to AU.SkylightFrame.com, promo code morbid. To get $40 off your purchase of a Skylight Frame, just go to ayu.skylightframe.com, promo code morbid. That's ayu.skylghtfram.com code morbid. Hey weirdos, I'm Elena and I'm Ash.

And this is more bid. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like a stoner vibe about that the way you said more bad. I'm in a different universe right now. Tell the people. Let it out. Put I'm in a different universe right now. Tell the people. Let it out. Put it all in the book, sweet. Honestly. Ah! This all goes into order, actually,

because the last time we talked to you guys was yesterday when my ceiling flooded. Oh, yeah. We had to get straight to it. All the alarms in my house went off because I flooded into the smoke detector and other parts. So it set the detectors off. So that was yesterday, that was wild. That was in the middle of the night last night because all the water had flooded into one of those

smoke detectors at 3 a.m. the witch in hour. The alarms started blaring in my house in a nice robotic voice was saying fire, fire, fire. And I shot up at a bed and I said, oh my God, if my kids ran down the hallway to us crying because they didn't know what was going on. And John's running downstairs. We're just like everybody's, it's chaotic. It's mayhem, he discovers that it is that, that it's like a false alarm. So we try to get everybody back to sleep,

but everybody's all wound up and terrified. My little asshole was like sobbing. It was awful. One of my twins was trying to tell my little asshole, like, it's okay, we have fire drills in school. It was so cute. It was so cool. Like, it's cute now.

At the time, I was like, this is chaos. Yes. But so we finally get everybody kind of settled. And then within 10 minutes, it blairs again. And it does that another four times. No. Back to back within 10 minutes each, or like five minutes sometimes.

Till finally, he was able to like clean it out, disconnect that one. And he was like finally get it so that it wasn't gonna trigger again. Right. But that at night point, it had been over an hour of all of us being shot up and not going back to sleep. And the kids being upset, me being straight, like it was just all a mess.

So it was chaos. Like the youngest one didn't want to go to sleep. So John was trying to sleep like on the end of her bed to calm her down. And that's too tiny for John. One of my twins was like, is everything cool? And I was like, yeah, she was like, see, I just went to sleep. The other one was like, can I come in bed with you? And I was like, sure. And so it was chaos. Less at the end of the day.

And dogs had no fucking clue what was going on. So they're just like, what have you done? I know and think of how loud that was to them. How did it was and they were like, what is going on? It's loud to us, but it's like so high pitched in their poor little ears. And they're also in full, like, they've officially reached the point where they're like full, protect family mode. When something happens, so they, if they see people upset,

they like lose it. They're like barking here. And so they're like losing their minds, being like, who's fucking with you guys? Like they're just like, oh, let me out of here. Like, they're just so, oh, yeah, I don't want to be out of here. Which was like beautiful for them. I love them.

They're wonderful. And I'm glad they do that. But at the time, I was like I was like, this is the nightmare. This is a nightmare. So today I'm just a zombie. Okay. It's like Halloween all over. Yeah.

I'm just, you know, I'm living that right now. I don't know how much sleep we got because also, it was so like, I'm also sorry, I'm like telling you my whole life story right now, but I'm so tired it's gonna be a ramblin' rose moment. But, I don't think that telling you my whole life story right now, but I'm so tired. It's going to be a ramblin rose moment. But I don't think that's like your whole life story. Also one of my twins lost a tooth that's really yesterday. So the tooth fairy came just, you know, in the middle of all that.

In the middle of all that. She still had to do it, which can be very stressful for the tooth fairy as well. Yeah. You know, so that was added on to it. Luckily, the tooth fairy did come and it was great for the tooth fairy as well. Yeah. So that was added onto it. Luckily, the tooth fairy did come, and it was great because the tooth fairy never misses. Damn, she really does be working on tea. She does.

So good job, tooth fairy. Shout out to the tooth fairy. Shout out to the tooth fairy. The tooth fairy now has to answer the children's letters that they write down. They lose tea that they can write. And they're like, what's your fibroids? Bluewood on Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving.

In fact, one time, it was the last one that I promised I'll be done after this. You're like, the last letter that they wrote to the tooth fairy, they asked what she wanted to be for Halloween. And the tooth fairy answered a stack of pancakes. That's what she was. I like that she told them her favorite flawed things, giving is mashed potatoes because of the color of teeth. That's so creepy. Why did the tooth fairy say that? The tooth fairy was up late. So she's a tired world. That's her favorite flawed.

But yeah, that's where I'm at today. So I'm really glad that she was telling you the story because I don't know what kind of rocket ship I would take us all on today. So I watched some govagool last night. And then I watched some Southern charm. And then I fell asleep at a normal hour. I'm sorry, but I slept like a-

It's so nice for you, baby. Well, okay, the night before though, I was up all night because of my freaking cats. I can't juggle in the door all night. Like, let me end, let me end. I'm like, I'm not letting you in here because you're gonna go crazy and you're gonna shove everything off my nightstand

at all hours of the night. So, no, I'm not doing it. No, and then last night they were on their best behavior. Good for those cats. My cats. My cats, my cats. My cats. My cats. Well, I wish that I had like a uplifting story

for you, a story of justice, or something spooky to make you lol. But I don't. Oh, I have a pretty tragic case. The woman at the center of this case is a cool lady, though, like reading about her and learning more about, I mean, her life is very tragic, but learning about who she was and kind of like,

what was important to her. I was like, this lady, I want to be friends with. Like, I'm into it. And it's a bit of an oldie. It's like a goodie. 20 slash 30s, but it's really, really interesting. And I hope you like it. So this one's for you.

This one's for me? Yeah, I don't know. I just, I felt like I was just this one introducing you. A song at a concert, so it just felt right to say this one's for you. So hey, co-host. This one's for you.

Ha ha ha ha. So yeah, this one's for you, Lena. Despite the extensive coverage of her murder and the trial that followed, there's not a ton of information out there about Mimi Thurmond's life, and that's who we're going to be talking about today, Mimi Thurmond. Okay. But what we do know is that she was born Mimi Morrison on September 12, 1900,

to George and Oli Morrison of Kentucky. And also the name of Oli is so cute. That is really cute. And usually you hear it for a boy, but I think for a woman or a girl, it's so pretty. Yeah. But unfortunately, in late January of 1901, when Mimi was just four months old, Ollie ended up passing away, leaving Mimi

in the sole care of her father. Oh, damn. So she never really knew her mother. And despite suffering such an early entragic loss, Mimi, she grew up to be a really happy, intelligent girl. She was charismatic, she was confident, she was outgoing, she had everything going for her. Author, Keith Davis wrote, with a bubbly and outgoing personality,

she knew few strangers, like just wanted to be friends with everybody, would talk to whoever. Yeah. And as she got older, she carried that confidence and friendly nature into adulthood. She enthusiastically embraced the fashion of the early 20th century. She dressed in tight-fitting clothes. She loved a little low neckline to show the girls off.

Got a girl. She accessorized with really beautiful eye-catching jewelry. And while most adults at the time discourage such quote-unquote provocative attire, Mamie loved colorful, glamorous clothing. She loved outrageous hats, head wraps, the turbines they would wear. She was a fashion gwerly. It wasn't just the fashion that Mamie loved. It was all the latest cultural trends. Being what her half-brother George Jr. described as a flapper, which is like my faith. She's a flapper. A flapper.

She completely embraced the suffragette movement for emancipation of women. And she really rejected the conservative modesty of the previous generation. She was like, going out there on her own, going to do the damn thing in the diet. She's a tits out, everyone. Yeah. Chin up, ties up, let's go.

Yeah, let's go. And honestly, which is another thing I really love about her, she kind of just leaned into the shocked responses that she would get from people, because remember, she's from a small town in Kentucky. So people didn't necessarily appreciate her bold outfits or, you know, gorgeously applied mug. But you know what, what other people think of you

is none of your business. RuPaul, so. But more than anything, Mamie loved the budding jazz styles, emerging in places like New York, Chicago, New Orleans, and that kind of music usually went along with crazy, like new styles of dance for people who were like, oh, M.G.

Are you summoning the devil over there? Obviously. And Mamie was like, oh, M.G. are you summoning the devil over there? Obviously. And Manny was like, bitch, I might be. Basically, she was just a cool chick way ahead of her time. I was like it. I love her. Now, in 1924, she met and married Jack Thurmond. He was a construction worker from Brad's,

Brad's Ferd, I can say it. You can do it, I think. Brad Ferd'sville, Kentucky. But pretty shortly after they got married, Mimi and Jack moved from Kentucky to Logan, West Virginia a little over four hours away. Now Logan was really just as rural as Bradford'sville, but it had more opportunities.

And Jack was able to find construction work pretty quickly, actually mostly thanks to Mimi's father. Her dad had also worked in construction and he worked a lot in that area, so he put in a good word for his new son-in-law. And then meanwhile, Mamie started taking secretarial classes at the local high school. And when she had wrapped up her coursework,

she was able to get a really good job as a secretary at a local car dealership. Cool. Now, moving from Kentucky to West Virginia, it did put a lot of distance. Like I just said, it was a four hour move. So put a lot of distance between Manie and her family. But she made a point to go back as often as she could to visit her dad. By then, he had actually gotten remarried and started a

family with his second wife. But he and Manie stayed close. And she was close to his whole family there. She was a lot older than his youngest kids, but they also were super close, like I just said. Her half-brother George later said, at first, I thought she was my aunt, Mamie, my father's sister, not his daughter. It wasn't until many years later that I discovered she was my sister. Whoa. Because there was just such an age difference. Yeah.

And despite the years between them, George completely adored Mamie. He told a reporter, I thought Mamie was the most beautiful woman in the world. That is so sweet. Like your brother just thinks you're the most gorgeous. Oh, I love that. And it wasn't just her younger brother and her dad that Mamie was close to.

She also was really, really close to her stepmom because they had a ton in common. And they actually considered each other close friends until Manny's death. Wow. In fact, George Senior, Manny's father, and his second wife, they had a pretty difficult marriage, and they actually separated on a number of occasions,

but Manny would tell her dad exactly what she thought he had done wrong, and more often than not, she'd side with her stepmom. Oh my God, that's really funny. Because they were closer in age, too. So she was like, you're kind of fucking my friend over here. She's like, I kind of get this. Yeah. More Bid tells the kind of spooky and macabre stories that send chills down your spine. But few stories are creepier than the one at the center of my new podcast, Ghost Story.

Ghost Sound Reel. At least that's what I've always believed. Sure, odd things happen in my childhood bedroom, but ultimately, I shrubbed it all off. That is, until a couple of years ago, when I discovered that every subsequent occupant of that house is convinced they've experienced something inexplicable too. Including the most recent inhabitant who says she was visited at night by the ghost of a faceless woman. It just so happens that the alleged ghost haunted my childhood room might just be my wife's

great-grandmother. Who was murdered in the house next door by two gunshots to the face. Go story, a podcast about family secrets, overwhelming coincidence, and the things that come back to haunt us. Follow Go Story on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes ad-free right now by joining Wondry Plus. Hey, I'm Marisha and I'm Brooke. And we're the hosts of Wondry's podcast, Even the Rich, where we bring you absolutely true

and absolutely shocking stories about the most famous families and biggest celebrities the world has ever seen. Our newest series is all about the Royal Spare Prince Harry. Stalked by grief and terrorized by the press, he grew up as the black sheep of the British Royal family. But when he finally pushes through his stoic exterior and lets his feelings in, he'll have to make a choice he never thought he'd face. In our series, Prince Harry, Windsor of Change, we'll tell you how Harry discarded years of

tradition to find the happiness he always craved. Follow even the rich on the Wendery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge even the rich and Prince Harry Windsor of Change early and ad-free right now on Wondery Plus. Now when George Sr. unexpectedly died in 1928, Mimi actually helped her stepmom move into a one-room, quote-unquote, no frills apartment at the pioneer hotel in Logan, and she kept visiting her and hanging out with her as often as she could. Oh my God. Yeah. And like I said, they were really sweet. It is. And like I said, they were pretty close in age. So they actually would like go out

with each other at night, occasionally in the company of other men. Oh. Maybe had a little fun on the side. Yeah, apparently. And her stepmom could because her dad had passed away. But she's a widow now. Exactly.

But a few years after moving to West Virginia, Jack ended up joining Jack as a mainie husband. He ended up joining the local police force. And Mamie was able to get a better job working as a secretary at one of the largest banks in town. And that was where she became acquainted with some of the most influential men in Logan. And then sometimes she'd get more than acquainted.

Oh, yep. One resident of the town said of her, that made me sure was a high stepper. She was a well-known, she was well-known and a very fine looking lady. Um, imagine being described as a high stepper and a very fine looking lady. I mean, let's go. What a, what a legend. What a legend. That's the thing I can see is what I meant, but legend works too. What did you say? I said a legend to leave. I meant a legacy.

Oh, oh. But you know, it all, it's in the same word family. So it's fine. Yeah. You guys know what I mean. A high stepper was like a nice thing to say kind of. Well, it's like, I think it depends on how you interpret it. Exactly.

It kind of means that you're like leading a wild and fast. Yeah, exactly. But so I think it's like if you're fine with that, then you're like, hell yeah, I'm a high stepper. And I kind of think Mamie was, because like I said, she leaned into this whole thing. I think she would have been like, yeah, that's me.

But some people would be like, oh shit. Exactly. I'm getting a reputation like, oh shit. Exactly. I'm getting a reputation for being a high stepper. Exactly, but he also said a fine looking lady. I mean, hell yeah. I'd be focused on that personally. But the thing was, while most people really publicly knew Mimi as a respectable,

quote unquote, woman of quiet demeanor, a devoted wife, a faithful congregant and regular attendee of the services at church, behind closed doors, people knew a little bit more, and talked a little bit more about her. And rumors were starting to spread. She may have been all of those things,

all of those great things, but people also said that she was promiscuous, and she often went out alone, and she danced with men at speakeasies. And she had a tendency to drink too much at a time when literally all forms of liquor were still illegal. Damn. So she was dabbling in some...

I was just gonna say, she's really dabbling in the... Almost in the 20s underworlds, kinda. Exactly, like the 20s in the world. Yeah, it feels like in Mulan Rouge, that whole world was like, yes. It's like wild underworlds of folks everywhere, like in different kinda. It's so funny that you said Mulan Rouge

because the entire time I was doing this case, I was thinking on about movie. Yeah, cause I think they kinda like say, like their creatures of the underworld. So like, you know what I mean? Are they like, you know, kind of hint at it. Yeah. That's that sort of feels like to me this like cool just like society. A little reckless like, you know, that it's cool. I, you know, I love a good time. Yeah. We're far removed from it. So it's cool for us now.

It's like, you know, look back and be like, that looks cool. And it was, but it was also somewhat dangerous. Of course it was. Of course it was. And those things back then. And especially not only just for your safety, but for your reputation. Yeah. And remember, her husband is a police officer now.

So exactly. You know. So she's really rolling the dice here. What's the thing? But we all know that multiple things, even contradictory things, can all be true at once. She was like a really good writer. For sure.

She was devoted in her own way. She went to church, but she also dabbled in those underground things. She had many facets. Yeah, she was me. That's the thing. She was multifaceted. Yeah. But she also was a young woman in her late 20s, remember, who wanted more for her life than just small town Logan had to offer.

Yeah. And it actually, you know, it wasn't that she and Jack were poor, they weren't struggling to get by by any means, but Mamie had an appreciation for those finer things in life, and she and Jack weren't necessarily bringing in the kind of money to make those things a constant. Yeah. So in the meantime, she did her best to manifest these things.

Okay. F. So in the meantime, she did her best to manifest these things. Okay. Eth Keith Davis wrote, Mamie was determined to go after opportunities. And pursuit of this endeavor, she spent much of her free time with friends and affluent neighborhoods within city limits. All right.

So you know, she's trying to rub shoulders with the right people to make a better life. She's networking. Exactly. But rumors and moral judgment aside, it is true that even though she was married, she did see other men. Her half-brother recalled, I remember me coming over to visit mom who stayed at the pioneer hotel. I remember men coming in and going out of our room at all times of the day

and night. It also reminds me of like Gatsby a little bit. It's very much like that. That one scene where they had the hotel party with the McDonalds. Yes. I remember seeing that. Very stressful. Now, it's unknown exactly how many extramarital relationships Mamie had, but most sources cite that her relationship with Harry

Robertson was the most long-running and most significant relationship that she had aside from her husband, Jack. So Harry was the son of Logan County's former sheriff, and he was really well known in the community because he worked at the, I think it's Guy on Valley Bank. And that was the bank that Mimi worked at, but it was one of the other biggest banks in town.

Okay. Because I was like, it was one of the biggest banks in town before. This was the other one. There's so many big banks. There's so many big banks. And most people considered Harry to be a decent family man. He married his wife Louise in 1914 in nearby Huntington. And after they got married, they moved and settled in Logan.

Harry went to work at the bank. And 10 years later, they'd had two children. They were living in a large three bedroom house near the center of town. They had a beautiful life. Get it, guys. And to offset the costs of living, they rented out part of their property to borders. Okay.

You know, living. To offset the costs of existing. I feel it, everybody feels that right now. They're like, I heard that. Exactly. So when Guyon Valley Bank, I think I said it in a different way this time, but whatever.

I love the variety. Because this is what I'm here to offer. This place of life. When Guy on Relly Bank merged with Logan First National Bank, which is where Mamie worked, Harry kept his position as head bookkeeper at the new institution. And that is when he became acquainted with Mamie, who, like I said, worked as a secretary

for Logan First National Bank. So because those banks merged, it made Mamie and Harry co-workers. Now, they already knew each other casually, but I think they got to know each other a little bit better here if you pick up what I'm putting down. Currently? Yes. In fact, it was actually Harry who was largely responsible for Jack Thurman, Manie's husband, becoming a police officer. Because Harry used his status in the community to advocate for Jack. And around the late 1920s,

an article in the local paper, The Logan Banner, referred to Jack as Harry's quote, own favorite appointee of the city police force. Damn. Messy, messy. I was just gonna say this is very messy. You know, only gets messier. Now, it's not really clear if Jack knew

that his friend Harry eventually ended up romantically and sexually involved with his wife, but it's hard to believe that he had no idea Mamie was being unfaithful. Before Mamie and Harry had become involved, Mamie was known to spend a lot of time at Le Society de Amour. Okay.

The Amour Club. The Amour Club, the love club. The love club, exactly. The love club. The love club. Wow. It was a local social club with a questionable reputation. For love.

During prohibition, the Amour Club was what was known back then as a key club, and that meant that patrons had to provide proof of membership and give a password before being allowed inside. Oh, damn. To drink and dance and gamble. It was a speakeasy. I think the original, like, playboy clubs were like that, too. I think you're right. It's like a key club.

Yeah, they did. For some reason, I remember reading that somewhere. That's the only time I've heard it. That was also mentioned in Secrets of Playboy. I think they had like cards, special cards. So yeah, like I said, it was like a speak easy, but the club also gained a reputation as quote, a secret nightclub for both married and single adults,

a haven for unfaithful and unsavory husbands, and wives looking for a good time where there was a reasonable amount of confidentiality. We have discretion here in high supply. So it's like a sexy nighttime gambling, dancing, drinking, cheating on your wife, then husband club. I was just gonna say, it's just like,

hey, come cheat. It's a sexy club. It's a sexy place, okay? Yeah, with sexy people. We're about it. So F. Keith Davis, who wrote the secret life and brutal death of Mamie Thurman Spoiler alert. Oh points out that since Mamie was a new employee of the bank It would have been Harry's job to train her and their relationship, you know, probably started as an innocent friendship

He wrote conceivably their first conversation on the job led to occasional dinner dates away from the bank and then from there Developed into very romantic run devos when Jack was on duty. Yeah. And at the time, Jack and Manie were actually living in an apartment above the Robertson's garage. Harry and his wife were the Robertson's. What?

So it was easier to carry out their relationship and more private than it might have been otherwise What yeah They were renting an apartment from the Robertsons and they lived above their garage Damn yeah damn mm-hmm So that's not good and like and it like I said it made it easier That's not good. And like I said, it made it easier than it might have been otherwise. For example, their relationship might have peedered out when Mamie was laid off from her position

at the bank in the fall of 1931, but being in close proximity, her and Harry continued to see each other. So it did not peed at all. Because yeah, it just kept going. So now we're going to fast forward a little bit to when, because like I said, there's just not a ton known about her life. Yeah. Like I gave you as much as I could. Yeah, that was good amount. Okay, I'm glad. Yeah. I think, you know, I feel like I know who she is. Yeah, Dave did a really good job of digging too and getting more in five. But so let's flash forward to when Mimi is

discovered. It is very brutal. I just want to give you a heads up. It's intense. So at about 2 p.m. on June 22, 1932, Garland Davis, a young berry picker, he was making his way through the thickets around Trace Mountain in Logan when he stumbled upon a body. The woman's face had been very, very severely beaten to the point that she was almost unrecognizable. Oh, God. So Garland immediately ran to get police who rushed to the scene and started calming the site for evidence. And eventually, as we know, the body would be identified as made me thermals. She had last been seen two days earlier on the evening of Tuesday June 21st,

when she ran into an acquaintance at a store in downtown Logan, but she'd been missing since then. And upon first glance, it was obvious to investigators, even though a knife was found in the area where the body was discovered. It was obvious to them that Mamie had been killed somewhere else and then dumped in a ditch near the briar patch. One of the most obvious indications of her being killed somewhere else was the lack of blood at the scene. That was like immediately one of the things they noticed. And they also discovered Mamie's hat about 30 feet from her body. And they noted that a bullet hole had ripped through one side of her hat. Wow.

Yep. About eight feet in the other direction, one she was discovered, and the match appeared to be missing, which they took us further evidence that quote, she had been slain at another point and her body taken to the top of the mountain to be hidden. She lost the shoe somehow along the way. In the journey. I don't think they ever found it. Now, Mamie's purse was also located near her body, and her cash and other belongings were still inside.

So this wasn't robbery because she also had rings and other jewelry still on her body. So they quickly ruled that out as a motive. Investigators had discovered tire tracks as well at the scene, indicating that somebody had driven up to the dump site and turned around. But other than that, there was little evidence at the scene to point toward a suspect or a motive. Huh. So they're like, what the hell is going on? Yeah. But whoever did this was a fucking monster and they had brutalized her. According to court documents, and this is where it gets really intense if you want to skip forward a little bit.

Her neck had been broken. Her throat was cut from one end to the other and she'd been shot in the head twice. Oh my god. With what investigators believed was a 38 caliber revolver. That seems like so much overkill. It is absolutely. Those are three methods of killing someone. In my opinion at least, somebody was very, very angry with her.

And during the coroner's inquest the following day, it was stated, this is interesting. It was stated that the cause of death was the knife wound to the throat, which had severed the trachea, the carotid artery, and the jugular vein, and they thought Mamie had been shot twice to make sure she was definitely dead. But this would later be amended after a review where they determined that the actual cause of death was the two bullet wounds in the head. Wow. And they said her death was instantaneous,

and the broken neck and wound to the throat occurred post-mortem. My God. I'm surprised they were even able, especially back then, to determine from the three of them, because I also wonder if this person was trying to confuse the cause of death. I wonder.

Because those are three specific causes of death. Like, that's the thing. Those aren't just injuries, like slicing someone's throat is trying to kill them. Yeah, absolutely. I'm shooting them in the head trying to kill them, breaking their neck, trying to kill them. Yep, that's the thing.

I think they maybe could have been trying to pull them off here. And according to the medical examiner, quote, one bullet entered behind the left ear and ranging upward, emerged an inch and a half above the right ear. The other, entering on the left side of the forehead, made its exit at the back of her head. There were powder burns over the face,

and in the wound at the rear of the left ear. Death resulted instantly from the gunshot wounds before the throat was cut. Wow. So intense. That's really intense. It's insane what was done to her. Now, despite the lack of evidence or other information to inform the case,

police wasted no time in identifying Harry Robertson as their primary suspect, and he was arrested in his home in Logan at about 8.30 pm that very same night. Huh. The arrest was almost based entirely on their rumored relationship, and when he was questioned, he more or less confirmed that they did have an extra marital affair with each other, but he minimized the extent of it. Of course. According to Harry, he had quote, quote, he had several dates with Miss Thurman, but said that he had seen Miss Thurman only a few times within the last several months. And he said the last time he saw her was the previous Saturday, June 18th. Okay. Later it will come out that that was a lie. Oh, no.

Now Harry was not the only one arrested at the Robertson residence in connection with the murder. Clarence Stevenson, a 28 year old black handyman, had been living in the Robertson home for the last five months. And based on his statement given at the time of arrest, investigators believed Stevenson, quote, was a go between for Robertson and Miss Thurman in arranging details of meetings.

And then that was also corroborated by Harry Robertson. Okay. Now, Clarence wasn't technically employed by the Robertsons, but he lived at their house on and off for the last two years. And he'd do odd jobs. He would take care of their hunting dogs in exchange for the accommodation of, you know,

room and board. Now, according to Harry, both he and Clarence were home all evening the night that made me disappeared. And Harry said he went to bed around 11. Okay. Now, rumor in Inulendo might have led the police to Harry Robertson's home, but once they were there, they knew they were in the right place.

Oh. A preliminary search of the residents turned up evidence they say pointed to Harry Robertson and or Clarence Stevenson as a killer. During a search of Harry's car, investigators found what they believed to be blood stains under the floor coverings. And in the basement of the home, they found, quote, stains believed to be caused by blood and a depression in the brick wall of the basement that officer said might have been caused by a bullet.

Wow. So, interesting. So this is just, yeah, it's just like, you're basically like all of the smoke here it is, like literally. And based on the evidence collected, Harry Robertson, his wife, and actually another border at the house were taken into custody. The three of them were held at the prosecutor's office, and Clarence Stevenson was also arrested,

but on the other hand, he was, quote, secretly removed to a jail in Williamson as a precaution against mob violence, because he's the only black man who was arrested out of these four people, and they're worried for all these reasons. Especially in that time period, and please remember where we are, these four people and they're worried for all these recent time periods, especially in that time period. And please

remember where we are. We're in the South. Oh, yes. And Kentucky. Absolutely. So really, really bad things could have happened to him. Absolutely. Now, not only did the murder call attention to Mamie's affair with Harry Robertson, but it also shined a very unwelcome light on the Amore Club where she was said to be a frequent flyer. Just days after the murder, the press started putting out stories about the club,

referring to it as, a rendezvous where at least half a dozen prominent Logan men with their women friends met occasionally. Oh, excuse me. They're women friends. They're women friends. And they're saying, like, these are the prominent men in the city, or in the town.

So it's like, you're pointing very specific fingers at people that you don't want to fuck with. Oh, it's getting messy. It's messier. And it's so sad that this is so messy and scandalous, but on the back of, like, Mamie's brutal fucking murder. Yeah. And in my opinion, the right person does not get convicted for this.

Interesting. But we'll get there. All right. Now, as far as anybody knew, the club, the more a more club there did not play a role in Mamie's murder, but investigators still wanted to question as many patrons as possible, and that's kind of why it got discovered and put into the press so much. Yeah. That makes sense. Now, in the days after the murder, detectives also questioned Mimi's husband Jack, who stated that he had been on night duty Tuesday and Wednesday night, and quote, was seen frequently in the streets until 5.30 p.m.,

or excuse me, 5.30 a.m. Wednesday morning. Okay, so they were like, Jack is not... Yeah, not our guy, we need to worry about. No, that basically accounted for his whereabouts during the time that Mimi was believed to have been murdered. Yeah. Now, investigators also noted that he had no car and he also didn't know how to drive. So it would have been very difficult and close to impossible for him to have murdered his wife

and then transported her body up to the top of Trace Mountain and then back to be seen on the streets. That'd be pretty tough. He didn't do it. Yeah. I'm not saying he didn't arrange it. I don't know. Oh, I don't know at all. You're not saying he had anything to do with it, and you're not saying he had nothing

to do with it. Exactly, because I don't know. I wasn't there. I wasn't there. It was very long time ago. Now on June 25th, Harry Robertson and Clarence Stevenson appeared before a packed Lugengort room where they were arranged for Manie Thurman's murder. I believe his wife was a eventually let go and the other border was eventually let go. Oh,

okay. And it was just Harry and Clarence now that we're going to stand for this. This feels very, uh, that felt very Birken hair. Yes. Like they, how they bring everybody in and then they start slipping off people. Yeah. Yep. Exactly. And I think it's basically to see like what they can get. Yeah. see if they'll turn on each other or see if anything comes of it. Exactly. Now, the session, the arrangement,

took much longer than was expected because the case had drawn such a large crowd. It actually had to be moved to a larger circuit court. Both men pleaded not guilty to the charges, but only Clarence Stevenson was called to the stand. I'm going to let you ponder that for a second. Huh. Now, he was guarded by half a dozen state troopers because, again, they were very concerned for his safety during this entire thing. And question under oath, he shared what he knew of Harry Robertson's

relationship with Mamie. He told the court he had never heard Robertson make any threats toward Mamie. According to Stevenson, Harry and Mamey actually had plans to meet the night she disappeared, but he said those plans were broken the previous Sunday by Harry himself, and he'd actually been the one Stevenson to take a note to Bainey to let her know. That way they weren't going to be meeting up anymore. Interesting. For the most part, Clarence Stevenson's testimony corroborated actually most of what Harry had told investigators in the days previous, but there were some details either from Stevenson or Robertson that contradicted previous testimony. So they their stories lined up in some ways, but then in other ways one would say something where the other one was like, no, that's that's not what happened. That's my first step. So it gets to be like, huh, like what really did happen? And like, who's covering for who exactly? Who's lying here?

Now, for example, when he was initially asked about the blood stains discovered in the car, Clarence told the detectives that they had often transported the hunting dogs in that vehicle, and occasionally their feet bled just from being outside. Oh, I know. And like on rough terrain. Oh my goodness. So sad. being outside. Oh, I know. And on rough terrain. Oh my goodness.

So sad. That makes me sad. I know. But when he was asked the same question by the prosecutor during the arraignment, he said, quote, the dogs were always carried in the back of the car. So he didn't know how the blood could have gotten

under the floor coverings in the front. Oh, OK. So it was like interested. Said one thing, but then was like, actually, yeah. Now, it was at this point that Clarence Stevenson's to meet her changed dramatically. And he became reluctant to answer really any of the prosecutor's questions.

And he was visibly nervous. So the judge was like, hey, what's going on? It's one of them. And he told the judge, he quote, had seen a man at the back of the courtroom twirling a pistol, a man who could kill me. He told the judge. Whoa.

Now the judge was like, okay, like identify this person trying to kill you will make sure that you're protected. Clarence was like, absolute, no, no, like, no, I'm not gonna point him out. What? But being a black man in a small Kentucky town, I can't say that I don't understand his reluctance to point this person out.

Now that makes a lot of sense. So the only witness who gave testimony during the arrangement was a man named RB Harris. He was the local undertaker who performed the initial examination of the body. And after the arraignment, the prosecutor, LP Hager, told reporters he intended to call both men RB Harris and Clarence Stevenson as witnesses, along with several straight state troopers and anybody else marginally related to the case. He was going to call as many people as he could. Okay. Now the next day, additional testimony again undermined Clarence Stevens' story. When mine worker Ed Dalton testified

that he had seen Stevenson out on state road number 22, near where Mamie had been discovered, just hours before she was found, is when he said he saw Clarence. Okay. Now Dalton's testimony was followed by Harry Robertson, who was called not to testify on his own behalf, but called to testify against Clarence Stevenson. The testimony was expected to be sensational and take up most of the day, but instead it actually confirmed most of what Clarence

Stevenson had already told the story. So did it back by. It did a little bit. Now what was curious though, was a letter said to have been written by Clarence Stevenson to his sister, that the prosecution's office intercepted in the middle of all of this. Ha! The letter read, please do all you can to help me and go to Mrs. Robertson and tell her that they have taken me to Williams to keep anyone from seeing me. But I will not tell anything to hurt Mr. Harry and tell her and do stand up as we all know that it's going to be hard

on me and Mr. Harry. They don't know anything to hurt us. That's why they have taken me away from Logan. So tell Mr. Harry that I will die before I lie on him or Mr. Robinson, please help me. Okay. Now, I don't really think there's anything incriminating in that letter, personally. I, all you guys think, I'm not gonna lie and I would never do anything to hurt them.

And even him saying like they don't know anything to hurt me, that's why they, that, I guess people could probably look at that and be like, does that mean there is something and they just don't know it? But I take it as like, there's nothing. That's how I'm confident in the fact that they don't have anything. That's how I take it. Because otherwise, how could he be so confident that they don't have something? Right.

If he did it. Exactly. Yeah. I guess it could be taken the other way. It's very interesting. You could speculate, I guess, but there's no smoke and gunner confession in there to me. That's how I felt.

And as far as Robertson and Steven's, excuse me, Stevenson's attorneys were concerned, the letter hinted at some sort of scheme or conspiracy to railroad these two men for a crime they didn't commit, and they doubted the validity of the letter in the first place. Oh, okay. That's interesting. They basically were like, I think maybe this got made up somehow,

and the prosecution is going to use this against them, but I don't even really know how they're going to. Again, messy. Messy. Now, defense attorney, CL, a step, told the court, the state's case should be built on substantial foundation, honest in a substantial foundation. You will not get justice by accusing the wrong man with the crime. In a few days later, after the arrangement,

Harry Robertson posted $10,000 bail and was released from jail. But Clarence Stevenson was unable to post the bond, so he was remanded to his cell in Williamson. So now Harry's out, but Clarence is still in jail. When realistically, at the beginning of all of this, he was believed to be the accomplice. I was just gonna say, he was not the main guy. They were even going after in the first place,

and now they're treating you like he is the only guy. Oh, just wait. I don't know about this. It's horrible. So while the investigation had moved surprisingly swiftly from the start, there was a brief low in the case during July. One investigators had to wait for the blood test

to be completed. When the test results finally came back in late July, they did confirm that the blood found in Harry Robertson's car. I repeat, in Harry Robertson's car, and on Clarence Stevenson's clothes was human. Oh, blood was also discovered on a straight razor that had been found in the basement, but according to the chemist who conducted the study, the stains on the razor quote were too faint to test accurately. But if you have found blood in the car and blood on one of their clothes, I'm willing to bet the blood on the razor was human.

Yeah, I don't have that feeling. There's nothing in me that believes that's not human blood. I'm not saying it's her blood, but I'm just saying it's human. I feel like that's human blood. So in early September of 1932, the case had stalled and despite the offer of a $1,000 reward for any information that could lead to a conviction, no new leads were turned up. And all the wild clearances just sitting in a prison cell. And for such a brutal crime to have no leads into just be holding this guy?

Yeah. Damn, it's nuts. So the prosecutor made the decision to take the case to the grand jury based entirely on circumstantial evidence because they really didn't have an option. And like you said, they're wasting all this time and some one person sitting in jail and others out on bond and this isn't really going anywhere. Absolutely. So he kind of like between a rock and a hard place was like, let's do this. Yeah. Now, Harry admitted to having an affair with Manny, and Clarence admitted to his role in helping facilitate the infidelity. But once again, they both denied any involvement with this murder as they were headed to trial.

And after two months of heavy press coverage in rumors, almost everyone in the county had formed an opinion on the case. Of course. Some felt that Harry was guilty, while other people found it hard to believe that somebody as smart as Harry would quote, leave such an obvious trail of blood

from his basement to his sedan, from the house to the mountainside. But I'm like, and they eat at the moment. Yeah, look at how brutally she was killed. Yeah, exactly. You could have been very angry and anger distracts. Yeah, exactly. You could have been very angry and anger distracts. Yeah, exactly.

Makes somebody stupid things. And now others thought the whole case seems suspicious from the start of everything and the evidence was too convenient. Almost like somebody was trying to frame Harry for the murder. Okay. And then there were even some people

who believed that Harry's wife Louise had taken matters into her own hands and killed Bainey in order to end the affair. So we're really speculating here. We're all and we continue to. While opinions on who killed Manie were divided among the residents of Logan, a majority of people felt that Harry was somehow involved.

Yeah. And they figured that Clarence Stevenson's participation was in disposing of the body after the had, after the murder had been committed. Oh, okay. And that's how we got blood on his clothes. That's what people were speculating and assuming. And I kind of am of that mindset. Yeah, that doesn't seem totally out of the realm of possibility.

Because he's got blood on his clothes. Yeah, I know. How do you explain that? But what motivation does he have to murder, Mamie? Well, that's where my problem was. It's like, do I think he didn't have, that he was like totally removed from it? And had no, no, I really don't.

I don't know. He's involved in some way, shape or form, but that could be totally on the fringe of it, like how, like you said, which is not good. It's supposed to be my fault. No, it's not. I think we should be looking for the person who actually did it.

Exactly. And I just don't see it yet. Because like you said, I don't know what the motivation is. Exactly. To do the actual deed. Right. To help afterwards I get it. I get what his motivation would have been,

but I can't connect it with the other part. Yeah, I think you and I are on the same page here. Now the grand jury reviewed the evidence for several days before returning with the shocking decision, not to indict Harry Robertson on any of the 58 felony charges he faced. How? I don't know. How? Excuse me, I do. He's white. That's like, that's wild. Yeah, he's white. His father, his father was the sheriff. I didn't think of that. Yeah, and he's got a great reputation in the community. Other, I mean aside from being damn

You know stepping out on his wife. Yeah, that so yeah, he had faced 58 felony charges and was just not gonna be indicted on any of them. Wow While Clarence Stevenson was indicted on several charges. No. Including one for the murder of Mimi Thurman. Where the fuck is the evidence of that? Bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. I don't know about that.

Prosecutor Lloyd Hager was outraged, actually, by the Grand Jury's decision. And believing that Harry Robertson was the main actor in this case, he vowed he would not end the prosecutors investigation of Robertson. I mean, so he was like, we're going to continue. Let's go like looking for anything that can connect him to this. Yeah, because how are you just letting it go? Well, and it's like, there is no clearance involvement without Harry. I'm sorry. There's just not.

No, that's how I feel. And it's like, we're gonna endite one person. I feel like it's connected to this other person that doesn't make any sense. I feel like the real big bad guy here is Harry. Me seems like Harry. Me too, but me too. I mean, there's blood in this car.

I don't know. So someone down here. And I'm not excusing what Clarence did if he is the one that, the one that disposed of her body and helped along with that, I'm not excusing that. But I am just saying it's wrong to punish one person and not both people. Yeah, that's the problem that I'm having.

It's like, let's get everybody. Exactly. Why are we not trying to cast a big net here and get everybody that's involved? And I think a lot of it had to do with connections. Yeah. Because remember, Harry's a prominent guy in town. He actually got Jack Thurman, basically, his police job.

That's true. So he's got a lot of influence. Yeah. Now, and the prosecutor felt the same as us. Like I just said, he was like, we're not going to stop until we figure out something to pin him in this on him. But regardless of the prosecutor's beliefs, Harry Robertson was allowed to walk

free. And Clarence Stevenson's trial was set for early October. Wow. Unbelievable. Wow. So Clarence Stevenson's trial began in Logan County Circuit Court on October 10, 1932, before Judge Neiman Jackson. Lloyd Hagen and assistant prosecuting attorney Emmett Skags acted on behalf of the state.

While Stevenson was represented by CL, Estep, and Chester Chambers, the defense attorneys who had also represented him during the arrangement and the indictment. Okay. The opening day of the trial attracted more than a thousand people to the court. Damn. Most of those people packed themselves into the courtroom to witness what was at the time the biggest case in Logan County history. Wow. And outside, additional people waited to get in while street vendors sold water, fruit, snacks,

this, that, and the other thing. Wow. It's like a circus. It's like, y'all, we're here because a woman was brutally murdered. That's the thing. That's really gross. That's really gross.

We were really scraping the bottom of the barrel back then. I understand being interested in court proceedings at a New Yorker say that I wasn't because of the court now. But like, there's a street vendor selling it. There's a certain decorum. Yeah, and a court, I would say. Yeah, exactly. I don't think you should be like selling hot dogs

at a court case firm murdered woman. No, me either. Yeah, I think we can all agree on that. I think we can. I think that's one thing we can all stand together on. That'd be great. Look, we found it. Look at woman. No, me, yeah. I think we can all agree on that. I think we can. I think that's one thing we can all stand together on. That'd be great. Look, we found it. Look at that.

United, we all stand, I think. Here we are. Yeah. Now, the prosecutors' original theory had been that Harry Robertson murdered Mamie in order to cover up their affair and her affairs with other local prominent men. And he had enlisted the help of Clarence Stevenson to dispose of the body on Trace Mountain. Yeah. But when the grand jury fell to indict Robertson,

they were left with only one suspect and forced to prosecute what was, like we were just saying, seemingly a motiveless crime. That's the thing. I gotta know what the hell's going on here. So instead of offering a motive, the prosecutors just stuck to the evidence, occasionally implying that Clarence Stevenson

may have acted in a misguided attempt to protect his boss, Harry. Okay. I don't see it. I mean, but they were grasping at straws here. I was just gonna say, I guess in terms of grasping at straws, that's a decent attempt. Yeah. Because you're gonna convince people of some people of that.

I think that's the only thing they've got done. I think that's like one of those things that I could see people believing that partially. So. Now, on the first day of witness testimony, the undertaker, RB Harris and Dr. W.S. Rowan took the stand and they explained to the jury how the body was discovered and transported back to the undertaker's office, as well as describing the extent of Mamie's injuries. Her husband Jack was also called that day to testify. And he was to tell the jury of his whereabouts at the time that Mamie had been killed. And he gave a detailed account of his

life with Mamie. He told the jury, we were, quote, we were always on good terms and almost never fought. And his demeanor on the stand was of that of a man who was genuinely grieving. The judge actually had to ask him to speak up multiple times because he tended to speak softly whenever he spoke of Mamie. Oh, that like breaks my heart. He really did love her. And to have like this is so messy. Oh, yeah.

And to have the man she was having an affair with, like be all involved in this, and like she was brutally murdered, and it could have been the guy who she was having an affair with, and it could have been the guy she was having an affair with, trying to help out other men that she may have been having a affair with. Yeah, and it's like in this poor guy's grieving, just to have your life, and then having to deal with everybody

knowing the sorted details of their, like that sound. I feel really bad. Having your dirty laundry aired like that. During a while trying to grieve. While trying to grieve exactly like horrific. Yeah, I can't imagine. I guess just gonna see. Yeah.

And I just, the fact that the judge had to be like, sorry, can you speak up? Because he just like always spoke softly when he talked about her. It's just sad. But the final witness called that day was Fanny Jones. She was a local black woman who was known to be friendly with both Mamie and Clarence Stevenson.

And the prosecutor suggested that it was Fanny who had provided a private room to Mamie where she could meet with many suitors But Fanny vehemently denied that allegation Okay, now other witnesses called to testify included state troopers and investigators and a number of local citizens who claimed that they had seen Clarence Stevenson in Mamie's company days before the murder Okay, and there were also witnesses who claimed they saw Clarence driving in the area where Mamie's body was discovered not long before she was found.

Okay. Now the most important testimony ended up coming from Harry Robertson himself and he can get fucked. Oh no. And a moment that everybody seemed to be waiting for, Harry provided all the lurid details of his relationship with Manny, including that contrary to what he had initially told investigators, they had been carrying on this affair of theirs for two years.

He told the judge she had seen, he had last seen Manny in his home around 8 p.m. on the evening she was killed. So he lied to them originally. Oh, and words, that's fine. He said he hadn't seen her for, I believe, two days. But now he's saying he saw her at the very night. She was killed in his home. He said, after he saw her around 8 p.m. that night,

he left the house to take his children to the swimming pool. What a doding thought. I was just gonna say doding family, man. He said, the last time I saw, that was the last time I saw her. Stevenson was in my house at the time. You fucking asshole. Damn.

To just turn on this guy like that? Damn. When he very well may have written a letter to his sister being like, help them, protect them. I would never lie on them. Wow. Wow. And now Harry went on to explain that when he returned home, he noticed that his sedan was missing,

and it appeared as though Clarence Stevenson had stepped out. Holy shit. He turned on him big time to save his own ass. Yeah. Like what it did. Absolutely. Now even Louise Robertson, his wife, was called to the stand,

and she told the jury that actually she and Mimi had been close friends until she, quote, had reason to believe she and my husband were intimate. Oh, man, this is so messy. It is. She said that she didn't have any proof of their affair and nothing in particular had tipped her off. She said it was just her women's intuition that led her to believe that they had been unfaithful. Usually right.

Yep. Now even after all of that, though, Louise stood by her husband. She confirmed his alibi of taking the kid swimming and she said, yup, Clarence did go out immediately after my husband left the house. And upon cross-examination, Louise confirmed that her husband did own a gun,

a 38 caliber revolver, which is exactly the gun that made me have been shot. But when she was asked to confirm that, she quickly added that when investigators searched the house, she overheard one of the officers say the pistol hadn't been fired. Wow. Objection hearsay. Yeah. The fuck? Like, I overheard it Maybe okay, yeah, maybe not though now and G how Now, the only thing Louise failed to mention on the stand was the fact that she, New Mamie, had been concocting a scheme to drive a wedge between her and her husband. According to Clarence, being stuck in the middle of their love triangle eventually became too much for him to bear, especially after Mamie can fight it in him that she intended to break up the Robertson's marriage. Oh, Clarence then told Louise of this plan just months before Mamie was killed.

Oh, damn. Yeah. So he took this stand on October 14th and did his best to defend himself and explain the inconsistencies and his stories. But he was a black man in West Virginia. Sorry, I've been saying we were in Kentucky. We started in Kentucky. We ended up in North Virginia. Sorry about that. So he's a black man in West Virginia who was accused of murdering a white woman. His defense wasn't uphill battle. He spent to say the very least, the very least. There aren't even words. I don't think he spent nearly the entire day on the witness stand, first answering questions from his own attorney, excuse me, then followed by cross examination from the prosecutor.

And during this questioning, Clarence told the jury about various vague and anonymous threats that he'd gotten since being taken into custody, including one incident that involved intimidation and police brutality. Can you believe it? Can you? Geez.

Wow. Like, this far back, yeah, still. According to Clarence, he was in the back of a state troopers car traveling up toward the top of Trace Mountain when they heard gunshots near the vehicle. And Clarence claimed the trooper turned to him and said the shots were from the mob that was waiting at the top of the mountain for him, unless he told them what he knew. He said the police officer would throw him out to the mob, who would almost certainly

kill him. My God. Now when the prosecutor asked how he responded in that moment, Clarence said, if I was making my dying my dying statement, it would be, I don't know any more than I've told. Wow. Like, if I was on my deathbed right now, I would tell you what I would say.

I've told you everything. Yeah. Now on October 14th, after closing arguments had been made, the jury retired to their chambers for deliberation. And after reviewing the evidence and testimony for less than an hour, they returned with a verdict of guilty, but, quote, recommended mercy. They're by making it mandatory that he be given a, he be given life imprisonment versus the death penalty. So even this jury knew that he had enacted a loan and they were like, we can't put this man

to death over this. Yeah. When we're not doing anything to the other man who is almost most certainly in that. Yeah. Absolutely. Now, defense attorney Chester Chambers immediately moved that the verdict be set aside and the judge granted this motion and that deferred Clarence Stevenson sentence

until arguments could be heard in the circuit court. Okay. Now, the sentencing hearing began on October 21st and during its several notes were found at the courthouse that appeared to be written by a concerned citizen. The writer claimed to have witnessed Mamie's murder and indicated that Clarence Stevenson had nothing to do with the crime, but other than that, they didn't give much information. Now, presented with the letters, both the prosecution and the defense actually agreed that they

were probably fabricated in order to divert attention from Clarence. Okay. So, they didn't present them to the judge. Oh. I don't know about that decision-making, but it is a little confusing. Yeah. But, on October 25th, having no additional information, the judge, Namin Jackson, listened to the arguments from both sides, and then sentenced Clarence Stevenson

to life in prison for the murder of Mimi Thurman. Now, he and his lawyers appealed the conviction in November of 1933, claiming among other things that the jury commissioners failed to include any black jurors solely because of their race. Wow. They had admitted improper evidence and refused to admit proper evidence, and then there was a whole myriad of other things that they had done wrong.

But the justice is on the Supreme Court of Appeals, listened to both arguments, and then rejected the plea, and upheld the lower courts verdict. Wow. In their summary judgment, they rejected nearly every point made that made by the defense writing. We would not be warranted in reversing the judgment for insufficiency of evidence under the circumstances presented by the proof. So convincing of guilt. It's like, what convinced you of the guilt?

I was going to say, can you, is the guilt in the room with us right now? Like, what can you point to it? There's, it's what's convincing about anything that they said. Yeah, I don't know about this one. This one, that's a little shady. It's all shady and we all know what it's rooted in. Because like I said, can I see him being somebody who helped after the fact?

Definitely. But I don't see the murder. I don't see the murder. I don't see it. Or at least they haven't convinced me. No, that's for sure. No, definitely not me. But upon their ruling,

Clarence was returned to West Virginia penitentiary, penitentiary, excuse me, to continue serving his sentence. In 1939, he was transferred to Hutton'sville Correctional Center due to overcrowding. And then in late 1941, after complaining of stomach pains for months and months and months,

he was diagnosed with stomach cancer. Holy shit. And he ended up passing away several months later on April 24, 1942. My God. So he spent, he did spend the rest of his life in prison for this. Wow. Now, to many residents in Logan County, Clarence Stevenson was a scapegoat, a very easy target on which the terrible

crime could be pinned and then shut away in prison. Yeah, that's what it seems like. Because if you took Harry Robertson out of the equation, like we've been saying this entire time, there wasn't much evidence to say Clarence and Mamie even knew each other very well. Yeah. Had it not been for Harry, they might not have ever spoken. Yeah, and it's like it now are supposedly that he just killed her out of nowhere,

out of literally nowhere. But when it came to the real killer, there were several theories, and they have been talked about for hundreds and hundreds of years. Okay. The most obvious and popular of the theories was that Harry murdered Manny after finding out that she kept a list of her illicit affairs with several prominent men to prevent her, he killed her to prevent her from exposing their infidelities and ruining their reputations. Okay. And similarly, some people actually believed that Harry's wife, Louise, had killed

Mamie, either because she learned of Mamie's plan to break up the marriage or because she simply wanted to end the affair. Yeah. I'm not sure about that. Yeah, that one... This one's hard. It's hard. I don't know about that, though.

Yeah, I'm not sure. To me, I really do think two people were here for this. I kind of think that too, but then... But I don't know. I mean, it could have been one person. It absolutely, like it's very much too. Yeah, my initial thought was there was two people

because the gun shots, the sliced throat. That's the thing, it feels really brutal, which again, one person could absolutely do this. And we've seen it. And especially because it's like she was, they think she was shot first. And then the slice throat and the broken neck was done afterwards. So it's like, yeah, I guess one person could do that because all they would technically

have to do to incapacitate her was shoot her. And then afterwards, it's just do the stuff afterwards. But also it's like, why the throat slash was one person? To me, that's like a personal thing. It feels like that's what I thought to you. Just because he had already killed her. So why do that besides to make it worse? And just because you're angry. And I guess yeah, so you know what the more I think about it,

I guess I know you're kind of as one person. Yeah, and then the other person just came all the way to. The other person was to help get rid of the evidence. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think it was Louise, though. No. No. No, that one doesn't check for me. But another popular theory was that Mamie had been killed by an organized crime group in order to prevent her from exposing their liquor operations in the area because remember prohibition. Okay. And throughout the I'm not saying I don't see this, I can't. Personally, I think Harry had something to do with it though.

Throughout the investigation and trial, it became clear that Mimi was a well-organized, opportunistic woman who had been keeping notes and gathering evidence that she thought might be useful to her in the future. And as a regular patron of the Amor Club, it was likely that she had been intimately familiar with men responsible for the illegal gambling, the prostitution, quote unquote,

and the liquor coming in and out of Logan County. Okay. So some believed that if she had been discovered to pose a threat to the organized criminal operation behind those illicit activities, she would have been killed in order to prevent her from going to the police. This one makes the most sense to me. And as a support for this theory, some believers pointed to the execution style method of killing used in the murder. That's what's striking to me.

Is the method used here feels strange to me? This makes the most sense. And you were saying, like, I think earlier, you were saying with all the different motives, it seems like they were trying, or all the different methods, excuse me, they were trying to confuse the police. Yeah, that seems like has organized crime

when you're going over it. Yeah, it does. And maybe, I mean, Harry's dad was a sheriff, you know, sometimes they can be crooked. Never know. And he was involved in all the same things that mainly was. Maybe he was connected to these people and had, I mean, the fact that all the stuff was found in his car in his basement leads me to believe that he had some involvement in this. Yeah. And remember, she lived above his, she lived above his garage. That is very true. So I could see this organized crime thing being part of a puzzle.

But I still think Harry has a piece in that puzzle. Because it's like the human blood. Well, we can't tell that it's human blood on the straight razor technically. But we don't have that confirmation. But there is human blood in his car and there's human blood on claims. Clothes. Clothes. human blood in his car and there's human blood on claims. Clarence is close. Do we know that it's Mameez without any doubt?

No, no. Because it was like the late 20s. But we know it was human. But we know it was human. But we know it was human. He's blood is all over your clothes. Exactly. And who's blood is all over your car?

Mm-hmm. Because if it's not Mameez, then who the fuck is it? Who says it? Who else did you hurt? Yeah. So yeah, I feel like they had to be in involvement somehow. I think so. But the organized crime thing really makes the most sense. It does make a lot of sense logistically.

Now, other residents around Logan have their own theories, most having to do with Mammie being killed in order to protect the reputation of Harry and the elite citizens that moved in Mammie's circle. Okay. But regardless of who was responsible for her death these days, the memories of Mamie Thurman, Harry Robertson, and Clarence Stevenson have been all but forgotten by the residents of Logan County. But there are some people who believe a part of Mamie still remains.

Oh, according to local legend, if you drive out to road 22, near the spot where Mamie's body was left, nearly a century ago, you might catch a glimpse of her ghost wandering along the roadway, they say. Oh, shit, we have ghosts. I know. And there are also people who claim that, if you leave your car in neutral while you're sitting

on this road, you might even find an unseen presence pushing the vehicle uphill. I always love those. And some people believe that is the evidence of the enduring spirit of Mamie Thurman. She's just helping you out. Yeah. Good Mamie.

It's worth mentioning that writer Joyce Robertson actually wrote a screenplay about the last few months of Mamie's life. Oh wow. And it was performed at the local high school, but then it was performed even after that. Oh wow. I'd be really interested to see it.

Yeah, that would be really interesting. It sounds really good. Yeah. Just knowing the cool chick that she was. Yeah. All the wild things she got up to. Exactly. And then she was a really cool chick.

She was. And she was like so ahead of her time. Yeah, she was. Just so sad that she died so young. Yeah. And just it's also really sad that one person went to prison for it, and that it's the person you're like

who is probably the fringes of it, the least connected to it. Yeah. And the fact that Harry Robertson just got to go about the rest of his life. Yeah, I don't know about that. I don't know about any of that. But that is the tragic case of Mamie Thurman. Wow. It makes me so mad that you don't,

we don't have like full answers. I know, that like, because at the end there, it really leaves it open to interpretation and it's like, and the interpretation just leads just so many more questions. More questions, that's the thing.

Like, you think you get it and then you're like, wait, but this. Right, because you thought we thought we had totally got it and then we get to the organized crime part and you're like, and you're like, well, shit, that makes the most sense. Yeah, no matter what, it's just so tragic. It is.

Or maybe. It is, and poor Jack. Yeah, I don't think he was involved in it in any way. I don't think so either. I was leading you astray before. Yeah, you were. You're welcome. Thanks.

But as always, we hope that you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But I'm so weird that you're, by our alarm you keep it weird. But that's a weird thought. That's weird that your fire alarm goes off at 3 am. Yeah, don't keep it that weird. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morbid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts.

Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. completing a short survey at Wundery.com slash survey.