Morbid - Episode 515: The Murder of the Grimes Sisters

Episode Date: November 27, 2023

On the evening of December 28, 1956, fifteen-year-old Barbara Grimes and her thirteen-year-old sister, Patricia, left their home in Chicago, Illinois headed for a movie theater in Brighton Park to see the latest Elvis Presley film. When the girls failed to return home that evening as expected, their mother sent the two other siblings to wait for them at the closest bus station, but when they returned later without Barbara and Patricia, she became anxious and began calling their friends, before eventually phoning the police. Three weeks later, Barbara and Patricia’s bodies were discovered on the side of a rural road by a construction worker in Willow Springs, about an hour outside Chicago.The murder of the Grimes sisters and the investigation that followed remains one of Chicago’s most notorious cold cases and one of the most costly and labor-intensive searches in the state’s history. Thank you to the incredible Dave White of Bring Me The Axe Podcast for research assistance!ReferencesChicago Tribune. 1957. "Suspect's mom says he's lazy, shiftless bum." Chcago Tribune, January 25: 3.—. 1957. "Charged with murder of Grimes girls." Chicago Tribune, January 28: 1.—. 1957. "Dsicloses how 2 girls ditched him and companion in theater." Chicago Tribune, January 27: 1.—. 1957. "High points of the news." Chicago Tribune, February 3: 8.—. 1957. "'I knew it!' sobs mother." Chicago Tribune, 01 23: 1.—. 1957. "Nude bodies thrown beside country road." Chicago Tribune, January 23: 1.—. 1957. "Rule out sex attack, strangling theories." Chicago Tribune, January 24: 1.—. 1958. "Slayer of girl, 15, hopes he gets chair." Chicago Tribune, November 19: 1.—. 1957. "Widen search for 2 young sisters missing four days." Chicago Tribune, January 1: 5.—. 1956. "Young sisters reported seen in two places." Chicago Tribune, December 31: 6.Gowran, Clay. 1957. "Re-enacts crime, and shows how he dumped two in ditch." Chicago Tribune, January 28: 1.Lowry, Shirley. 1957. "Lost girls' mother keeps brave." Chicago Tribune, January 11: 3.McGill, Nancy. 1957. "Mom denies Skid Row tale." Chicago Tribune, Janaury 28: 6.Milwaukee Journal. 1957. "Grimes case tiff costs job." Milwaukee Journal, February 16.Nix, Naomi. 2013. "1950s case gets new look from pro, amateurs." Chicago Tribune, 30 May: 1.Taylor, Troy. 2015. The Two Lost Girls: The Mystery of the Grimes Sisters. Jacksonville, IL: Whitechapel Press.United Press. 1957. "Bennie admits part in crime." Daily Chronicle, January 28: 1.—. 1957. "New suspect is arrested." Daily Chronicle, January 24: 1.—. 1957. "Two teen-aged girls killed." Daily Chronicle, Janaury 23: 1.UWIRE. 2019. "'Chicago History Cop' making headway in Grimes sisters' murder case." UWIRE, October 25.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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I'm going deep into my wife's family history, digging up the cold case of her murdered great-grandmother. And did I mention that I'm looking into whether the murderer was actually the beloved family patriarch? Binge all episodes of Ghost Story, add free right now on Wondru Plus. Hey, weirdos, I'm Melina, and I'm Ash, and this is morbid. It is and my brain is also not functioning on any kind of high frequency right now. So I apologize at the time. She's a little lily today. I just said, I said my child's name wrong while I was just talking about her. I like to put like all the names into one.

Yeah, that was interesting. I liked that. Yeah. I'm just not, I'm not with it. I'm not with it. Get with it. I'm trying to get with it. Maybe we should get you all pumped in here.

That's right. Imagine. I'm not gonna get you. I'm just doing it a pumped in here. Honestly, goals. At least the 100 pump is that you. Oh my lord. Yeah, I don't do it.

I don't think I have anything exciting to talk about maybe because my brain isn't working. So. Yeah. I don't know. Um, the actor's strike is over. That's exciting. So now we'll get TV. Yeah.

I'm just excited about Stranger Things season five. Hell yeah, brothers. So it's going to be totally. My wedding is on again. Again, everybody was very concerned that Andrew didn't get married in October. Like we said, we were going to, but family things happen, you move things, and now we're getting married at another time. There you go, but I'm not telling.

I'll never tell. Yeah, we're almost there, folks. So close, I'm about to be a close-ass wife, you all. It's true. But before that, we're gonna talk about some terrible things. Yeah, that's what we do, and we're gonna do it. This particular one that I'm gonna talk about is from the 50s.

Shut up. I will not shut up. Shut up. It's like in princess, or not princess tires. It's like in Mean Girls, which is like, I didn't say anything. I didn't say anything. I was just gonna say that in my case this week

is also from the 50s. Or my next one, I guess it'll be next week. I don't know. I don't know when any of these come out. It'll be at a time. By the time this comes out, Ash could be married. I have no idea about any concept. Yeah, I might be married.

Noted, so congratulations on getting married. Thank you so much. It was such a great time with you there. Yeah, so we're in the 50s today. And this is unsolved technically. Oh, technically, that tells me it should have been solved. There's someone who's an interesting suspect who, unfortunately, we can't really get anymore. But there was someone that they followed, you move, you move, you move, you get there. But it's technically unsolved. I really think it has the potential to be closed.

Ah, at some point. Okay. Could you do like a little exclamation maybe? Yeah, there you go. There you go. I think I would like to see this closed because this is a really, really sad story. And their parents, especially their mother,

I feel like carried guilt that she didn't need to carry. Oh, that's terrible. And I hate that she had it on her and that she felt that way. And like, it just, I can't fathom it. So let's get into this horrible, horrible tale. Okay. So the murder of the Grime sisters and the investigation that followed is still one of

Chicago's most notorious cold cases. And it is one of the most costly and labor intensive searches in the state's history. Wow. Despite all of the hard work put into search for this killer, the investigation was ultimately hitting dead end after dead end, partially because of bad leads at times that were chased a little too far, and also some well-intended, but very misguided attempts to withhold evidence that allowed this killer to still go unpunished to this day. And it left generations of people wondering what the hell happened to Barbara and Patricia Grimes. I think I know this one.

It's really sad. Yeah. And we'll get to it, but there is some withholding of information from the press and the public that obviously that is very important sometimes. And obviously that can push it case forward. Sometimes I fully support that. Yeah. In this case, the reasoning behind it was like, and then it actually ended up kind of hurting.

Oh, no. Which was obviously not the intent of the person who did it, but it didn't work out well in the end. So Barbara Grimes was born May 5, 1941, and Patricia Grimes was born December 31, 1943, a couple of years later. And in a new years, baby. Yeah, so they were both born and grew up in Chicago, Illinois, and with a third and fourth of what would be seven children born to Joseph and Loretta Grimes. Wow, it's a lot of kids.

Joseph and Loretta had married very young. They actually married when they were both 17 years old. Oh, were they just like in love? They were just in love. And then when they were 19, they had their first child, a daughter, surely. Now, like such cute names. I know, it's really cute. Like Loretta, surely Patricia, you know, Barbara, since they married so young, they didn't really get a chance to pursue a formal education. Yeah, that means they kind of started a family quick. So they definitely struggled in the beginning.

Yeah, and I mean, with that many children. Yeah, and they relied on welfare. They kind of went without basic needs, a lot like heat and electricity in the beginning. Eventually though, the struggle is only for a little while and they got through it. But during the struggling time, as we know, that can be tough.

Yeah, definitely. And they have all these kids that they keep having, and the struggle is getting worse, the burden, the financial burden is becoming harder. But eventually, Joseph did manage to find work as a truck driver. And by the late 1940s, he was making around $80 per week, which now would be about $950 per week. Okay. So that was a stable salary, and it did help relieve that financial pressure

that was happening, especially having six children and one on the way. Seriously. At that moment, so at that moment, he had six children and one on the way. That's a lot of pressure. Unfortunately, the couple had not weathered the struggling time as well as they had hoped. And in December 1951, they filed for divorce.

Oh, that's sad. Now, luckily for the entire family, including the kids, Joseph and Loretta's divorce was pretty uncomplicated. They very much agreed on it mutually. That's great. There wasn't a lot of fighting. It wasn't a lot of upheaval and nastiness. It was like they still had a respect for each other. They just agreed that this wasn't working. Too much happened. And once the papers had been signed and the divorce was official,

they went their separate ways. Barbara, Patricia, and three of their five siblings remained in the custody of their mother. And Joseph moved to an apartment not far away. They still saw their father. Everything was chunky door. Yeah. Now the only problem was without the income of Joseph's job, although he did pay $35 per week in child support from his $80 week salary. So a good chunk. Loretta was forced to find work and luckily she quickly did. She got work as a file clerk for Park Davis Pharmaceuticals. Unfortunately, it wasn't enough to really take care of it. I mean, again, they have seven kids, that's a lot. So they did have to rely on welfare still,

some social supports from time to time. She worked a lot of hours, but despite that, she prided herself and everyone said it, including like every but the whole family said it, that she was an amazing mother to her kids, and she did the best she could while she was at home to be there whenever she could. That's incredible to have that much pressure

on you of like staying afloat financially, working all these hours and then to still be a great mom when you're present and do whatever you could to be there for them like, that's amazing. Where I was killing it. Yeah. mom when you're present and do whatever you could to be there for them. That's amazing. Where I was killing it. Yeah. So by all accounts, Barbara and Patricia in particular were smart, polite, very well-liked

girls in their neighborhood in their whole community really at school. Barbara ended up having a part-time job at 15 years old, which was only a sophomore at Kelly High School. And she actually ended up working at Wolf Furniture House, and she ended up doing that to help her mom make ends meet. So she immediately was like, I want to help. Because she respected her mom a lot. Yeah.

Now, her younger sister Patricia was described as super friendly, a little more outgoing than Barbara and more energetic than Barbara. Barbara and Patricia were also described as seemingly inseparable. And they were said to often walk places, hand in hand. Oh my God, that's so sweet. Now Barbara is 15, Patricia is 13.

So they're pretty close in age. Pretty close in age. The two girls had a lot of interests in common, but like many of their peers at the time, what they were really passionate about was Elvis Presley. Oh, Elvis, baby. Elvis Presley. Now in 1956, Presley was only a handful of years

into what would be what we all know, an iconic career. You have to say, yeah, you had a pretty iconic career. Elvis, huh? Yeah, you know. Now, as devoted Elvis fans, Barbara and Patricia would often spend their afternoons at the local record store, listening to his singles. I love it.

They would find anywhere that had a jukebox around town, just to hear his music over and over again. And at home, their whole bedroom was covered in pictures of him. They cut out at magazines. You could also get them at the five in dime store, so they had purchased them whenever they could. So cool.

And by the fall of 1956, they joined his fan club and were eagerly awaiting their membership cards. Oh, I love it. That's so much fun. Isn't that adorable? It's just like, I remember a time when it was like magazines, like teen beat magazines and like tiger beat, and that shit, you could like send away for stuff.

They had like fan club mail, that you could send in. It was wild. You guys, there are so many reasons that we need to stay hydrated, especially during the holiday season. You're running around going gift shopping. You know, maybe you're traveling back home and it gets dry on those airplanes. Maybe you're hosting the entire family or, you know, recovering from the annual Christmas party. We've all been there.

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So on November 15th, 1956, Elvis Presley's first feature film, Love Me Tender, was released in theaters across the country. It was something, if you were devoted Elvis fan, you would want to see that movie a million times. Of course. It was just happening. And as dedicated Presley fans,

Barbara and Patricia got their opening night, and by Christmas, they'd seen the film a dozen, like dozens of times. I love that so much. They'd seen it a ton, but Barbara and Patricia just couldn't get enough of it. And on December 28th, my birthday.

And a couple days before one of their birthdays. Yep. On December 28th, Barbara and Patricia convinced their mother to allow them to go to the movies to see the film again, like for the 100,000s time. Now early that week, Barbara had come down with a bad cough and was taking cold medicine for a few days. So Loretta was like a little reluctant because she was like, I don't know, you've

had a cough, it's the winter. But eventually they begged and begged and she gave in and let them go. Probably just wanted to make them happy, of course. And they promised they would be home before midnight and she was like, okay, as long as you promise. Oh no. And you can go. Now, when she agreed to let the girls go, Loretta gave them explicit instructions to be home by 11.45. This gave them enough time to watch two movies that evening. So when 11.45 PM came and went and no one came home, Loretta immediately began to get anxious

and sent her two other children, Theresa and Joey, to the nearest bus stop to wait for them, hoping that they maybe just got to wait bus. Yeah. But three buses stopped. Oh. And 15 year old Barbara and 13 year old Patricia

did not get off those buses. And you just think of one, the mother Loretta sent having to send the kids out to be like, and hoping for the bus, but probably thinking, you know, like this isn't right. Yeah. And then those two siblings watching three buses go by, just the increasing worry that was built.

Oh my God, I can't even imagine. And then these two come home and say, they de-handed. She didn't get off and Loretta's just panicking. Fully, I bet. So when she learned that the girl still hadn't returned, she immediately called the local police precinct around 12.30 a.m.

and sent Theresa and Joey back to the corner to meet the officer. So the kids explained that their sisters were supposed to be home an hour earlier and hadn't arrived. They hadn't heard anything. The officer immediately put out an alert for the sisters, but they still hadn't heard anything a few hours later. And so, Loretta called the precinct again to officially report them missing. Now, although the investigation into Barbara and Patricia's disappearance officially began on the morning of December 29th, it didn't really get into high gear

until it hit the Chicago newspapers on Monday morning, December 31st, which also happened to be Patricia's birthday. Right. Now, it was by then that the investigators had talked to the staff of the theater. They'd gone door to door, speaking to people. They'd search neighborhoods, gorages, alleys, abandoned buildings, everywhere in between. They found no trace of Barbara and Patricia.

And obviously, any child going missing or multiple children going missing is alarming for the residents of Chicago. but this disappearance started really setting everyone's minds going because it definitely reminded them of the disappearance of three local boys whose bodies were discovered on a roll road outside the city a little over one year earlier. Oh, wow.

It was very similar. We actually talked about these boys, John and Anton Schussler and Robert Peterson in one of our spooky forest episodes. Oh, because there's all these stories about the place where they were found. This certain forest has a lot of activity. Yeah, that raises a bell. It's a really like horrifying story. Yeah. Like really horrifying. I mean, they were 11, 13 and 14. They were found stripped and stacked on top of each other. They were bound gagged, raped and strangled. That's absolutely horrific. The details are really horrifying for that one. And that had already kind of shook everybody.

Of course. But this on top of it is now, oh fuck, like what a time thing is there's someone out there stealing kids. Now, the first tip finally came in on the afternoon of December 31st when Jack Franklin, who was a security guard with the admiral corporation, reported to police that he thought he'd seen the girls a little after 9.30 a.m. on the morning they were reported missing. What we will see in this case is so many people say they saw these girls when they had already been dead. I remember that being reported, like I've heard this case told a few times. And it's not like one or two people. It's a lot. Lots of people. That's interesting. It's very, it's weird. And do you believe some of them? I don't know.

I mean, I winnances to me are very... It's, it's shaky. But so many people. Yeah, that is interesting. I think it's some kind of phenomenon, but I'm also like, what is going on here? Well, and I think, like, styles, like girls were all dressing in very similar styles and had like certain hair styles back then.

So maybe that had something to do with it, but it's very strange. Yeah. Now, according to Franklin, he said, quote, it was their rudeness that made him remember them. Oh, I doubt that. Which they're not described that way. Yeah, I doubt that. And Franklin told investigators he had been standing on a sidewalk on Lawrence Avenue Saturday morning, and he saw the two girls pass him.

And he said, one said to the other, I wonder where the bus stops. And Franklin heard them. So he said, you said to the other, I wonder where the bus stops. Yeah. And Franklin heard them, so he said, you just missed the bus. And one of them looked over and said, oh, shut up. And then the two continued walking towards the bus stop. That doesn't sound like them from how they've been described. Exactly.

And again, this was very troubling because he was sure it was the girls. Yeah. And then this is troubling because the three boys that we mentioned who were murdered in October 1955 because he was sure it was the girls. And then this is troubling because the three boys that we mentioned who were murdered in October 1955 were last seen in the same area before their bodies were found a few days later.

And this was concerning to everybody like, oh shit. Now the same day, 15 year old Dorothy Fisher told police she'd seen Barbara and Patricia in the theater that night, the evening that they had gone to therapy. Thinking they made it to the movie. Yeah. And she said they had spoken with briefly together and then they left the theater. Okay.

She said the girls, apparently the girls were also seen that evening around 11 p.m. by a bus driver who picked them up at the stop near the movie theater. Okay. But this bus driver reported that they got off at Western Avenue, which was nowhere near the Gr theater. Okay. But this bus driver reported that they got off at Western Avenue, which was nowhere near the Grimes' home. And why would they get off there when they promised they'd be home?

That's the thing. Now, despite all the witnesses reporting that the girls were alone when they were seen, detectives had initially theorized that the girls had just run off for, quote, a date with sailors. That's random. Sounds random.

Oh, but it's not. Because when I first read that, I was like, ah, they're 15 and 13. What the fuck are you talking about? You're talking about a document of nowhere. Well, apparently a few days earlier, Patricia had told friends about a letter she'd received from a sailor acquaintance,

saying he would be home for the holidays. Okay. Just one month earlier, in fact, both girls had come home from a movie with two sailors they had met at the theater. Okay. So this wasn't entirely out of the realm of possibility. And sorry, yes, these sailors are men. Right.

And I'm sorry, did you say a year earlier or a month earlier? A month earlier. And they came home with these sailors from the theater. Okay. From the earlier. Month earlier. And they came home with these. I think these sailors brought them home. Okay. From the theater. All right. Same reaction indeed. All right.

I said, huh? You would hope. Well, no, I was going to say you'd hope that they're just like 18, but you know, even though that's wrong. It's still 15, 13, so it's like, oh no, I meant the sailors, but then I was like, yeah, they're 15, but that's what I mean.

So, like, still doesn't work, unfortunately, but yeah, it's like, oh no, I meant the sailors, but then I was like, yeah, they're 15 or 13. But that's what I mean. No, no. Still doesn't work, unfortunately. But yeah, that's a whole part of this. That's just like, oh, and to Gloretta ever comment that like she, like, did you ever confirm that she had like met these sailors or I think we, we find out who those sailors are. And I think they, um, they were able to like clear them. Yeah. But not much is known about them. But tips kept coming in. And the next day, one of their school friends said they had seen Barbara and Patricia in her neighborhood on Saturday afternoon. And a passenger on the train said they'd seen them board his Milwaukee bound train on Sunday afternoon. So two days after they've got this. So now we're seeing somebody has seen them at the theater. Somebody has seen them on a bus driver has said they dropped them off somewhere far away from their home that night. Then someone else

is saying they saw them the next morning. And then a school friend is saying they saw them the next afternoon. And then somebody else is saying they saw them Sunday. So now we're seeing them all three days and we have multiple people saying it. Very strange. Now according to this passenger on the train that said they got off the Milwaukee-bound train, he said that the girls got on at the Edison Courts station, which is just two stops away from the Great Lakes Naval Training Center,

which further supported their belief that they met up with Patricia's sailor friend. Now, based on this information, detectives began looking into the sailors that had brought them home the previous month, known only as Terry and Larry. Terry and Larry. No, since it was all looking a little crazy here now with the possibility of, you know, fucking adult men being involved here. That's always a problem. That's always a problem.

That's always a problem. That's always a problem. Did get assigned to a task force led by Chief of Detectives Patrick Deely. This task force had actually been put together a few months earlier to investigate the murders of those three local boys in October. Forty officers were assigned to the case, and they were from the, or forty officers from the Brighton Park precinct were assigned to the case. Got it.

And several of these were from the juvenile bureau, which was put together to investigate sex crimes and homicides. Now, meanwhile, the students at St. Maurice, where Patricia attended school, were helping out however they could. They stuffed over 15,000 missing flyers into mailboxes. Wow. And the clergy and parishioners at the family's church had collected enough money to offer a $1,000 award

for any information for their safer turn. So the whole community is on this. It's a huge search. Now unfortunately, weeks passed, and it seemed like they had just vanished. Wow. Loretta Grimes told reporters, I'm waiting here for news, hoping and praying. If someone is holding them, please let the girls call me. I'll forgive them from the bottom of my heart if they just let

my girls go. Oh God. I like literally almost here up here and that. It's just like I can't almost here up here and that. It's just like, I can't fathom the depths of her despair here. She insisted to media and police that the girls didn't have boyfriends and neither one of them were the type to run away and they never had run away. Right. Especially since it was days before Patricia's birthday and there was a party planned. Yeah. It was like they wouldn't have run away.

And this was just, like obviously this was just something they did. Went to the movies, saw the Elvis movie, came home. And they were coming home. They had done this a million times. Yeah, this wasn't out of the ordinary. It wasn't a sudden thing. They wanted to see this movie. They'd seen it a million times. Right.

Reporters even suggested to her, like, which I was like, cool reporters, like, you're saying this to a devastated mother? They say. They were like, oh, do you think they ran off to Tennessee to see Elvis at Graceland? And it's okay. Like, get where the thought is coming from.

But it's also like, really? Cute joke. Right. Like, not the time. Yeah. Like, what the fuck? And by January 19th, Elvis Presley himself made a statement. Wow. You released it from his home in Graceland and said, quote, And by January 19th, Elvis Presley himself made a statement.

Wow. You released it from his home in Graceland and said, quote, if you're good Presley fans, you'll go home and ease your mother's worries. Thanks, Elvis. That's helpful. Yeah. Everyone's really helpful here.

I can see. Thank you, Mr. Presley. I don't think you needed to make that statement. You can make it right now. It's not really looking like they're holding up somewhere and just worrying their mom. Right. Sounds like something happened.

Yeah. So like maybe let's not put it on them. Yeah. Well, let's put it out there and say like let's get you girls home. Yeah, but if you're holding these girls, let them home. Spend not a different way. Yeah, spend that a little bit different. Now horrifically, all of those hopes and prayers fell away just a few days later on January 22nd, 1957, when the bodies of Barbara and Patricia

Grimes were discovered off County Line Road in nearby Will Springs, Illinois. And that's almost a month after they disappeared. Now, that day Leonard Prescott was on his way to the grocery store outside Willow Springs and was traveling on German church road when he saw what he thought were mannequins. He said he thought they were just store mannequins. Never. He later told reporters, I didn't have a care in the world. My wife told me to go out and get groceries. I was going mighty slow.

And I noticed these flesh-colored things underneath the railing along the side of the road. So he didn't stop initially, but he said he went grocery shopping, and then on his way home, he was like, it really bothered me the whole way home. I couldn't, I was like, you know, he said he had read about the missing grime sisters in the papers because everyone in Chicago and beyond had at this point. And even though he had convinced himself, those were just store mannequins, he was like, I just need to confirm this because I can't just go about my day.

So he and his wife Marie actually went back to the spot that afternoon. And when they reached the embankment, Marie Prescott screamed. Oh, God. Because it was clearly the sight of the nude bodies of two girls lying in that ditch, barely covered by a layer of snow.

Marie began weeping uncontrollably, Leonard had to literally carry her back to the car. The absolutely horrified couple just sat there for a while, trying to calm themselves. Once they were able to speak, they drove down the road only about a mile to the Springs Police Department. Only about a mile away. Now, Sergeant John McKay was just getting out of his car, like showing up at the station. And the Prescott's got out of their car and came right up to him. And McKay said he was all excited.

He'd seen, too, what he thought were dummies lying alongside the road on German church road. I told him that I would immediately go over there. He should show me the spot. Now, when they reached the scene, McKay confirmed what the Prescott's had suspected that these were the bodies of two girls. Someone had obviously dumped the bodies of two girls along the side of the road, and he was strongly suspecting that these were Patricia and Barbara Grimes.

Right. McKay radioed the sheriff's station and stayed on scene until all the officers arrived. Now the discovery of the Grimes sisters brought a heartbreaking end to a week's long search that had been underway right from December 28th. But no questions were answered here. Like the more questions were asked. The bodies were covered in snow, which indicated they had been there since the last snowfall, which was on January 9th.

Oh wow. This was January 22nd. Wow. So they've been there since January 9th. That's the very least. Yeah. And they had only become visible when the snow began to melt so few days earlier.

Now at the time, German church road was a, was not traveled a lot. It was in, it was in an unincorporated town. Oh, okay. Which makes sense. That explains why they hadn't been discovered. Earlier, no one went down that road. I was like a very seldom traveled road.

How fucked up is it that they were a mile away from the police station? And nobody knew. Just under snow. And like the police. Right on the side of the road, too, they were not far off the road. There's unfortunately crime scene photos and they're right off the side of the road. And do they, I might be getting ahead of myself here, but do they think that they had been there the whole time? We'll get to that. Okay. But like, yeah, well, we'll definitely get to that. But unfortunately, there was no clues on the scene to what the hell happened here. Before the girls

were removed from the scene, unfortunately, Joseph Grimes, their father was taken to the site. Oh, God. Where he positively identified them as Barbara in Patricia. And as he did so, he just dropped to the ground and burst into inconsolable tears. Yeah. And I can't even fathom that scene. Well, you don't hear a lot of parents being brought to the crime scene. I think it was the 50s shit was just like,

W Island back then. Holy shit. They don't do that now. That's a thing that's horrific anyway. They have to identify your child, but at the crime scene or wherever they were. This the dump scene. Yeah, like that, God, I can't imagine. Yeah.

Now, according to Harry Gloss, a representative from the coroner's office, the bodies had been hastily covered with leaves and grass. Barbers' body laid across Patricia. Both girls had three puncture wounds in the chest and, quote, that appeared to have been made by an ice pick. Oh my God.

Barbers' face had bruises that indicated that she had been beaten. There were cans, bottles, and other debris just strewn all around the area, but none of it appeared to be related to the crime scene. It was just a place where people have been there. Trash. Now, the autopsies were performed a few days later

because they had to give the bodies adequate time to thaw out because they had been essentially frozen there. But they didn't get a lot of extra information even then. According to all three of the very qualified pathologists who performed the examinations, both Patricia and Barbara's causes of death were shock and exposure. Wow. Which indicates that they were dumped alive.

Yeah. And died from the cold from the occurrence. But they can't get a lot more than that, which is like horrifying, because they were stabbed three times in the chest. Right. One of them at least was beaten, and then they were stripped and thrown in the snow.

Right. Like, what the fuck? And did they know how they'd been assaulted at all? We will get to that. and then they were stripped and thrown in the snow. Right. Like, what the fuck? And did they know how they'd been assaulted at all? We will get to that. OK. They couldn't agree on an exact time of death for either victim. All of them agreed that they had likely died the night

they went missing. OK. And had been in the ditch covered by fresh snow for quite some time. So wild. Now, in their final report, the pathologist also noted that the girl's quote had not been sexually molested. Okay. And there were quote, no signs of external violence on the bodies that could have caused

the death. Okay. Now, that's so strange. Yes. Now, ultimately, the autopsy results produced obviously more questions than answers. Yet again. For one thing, if the girls have been killed the night they disappeared, how is it possible for so many people to say they'd seen them around the city? Right. Like after they get this experience.

The answer to that, to me, feels like eyewitnesses are just notoriously unreliable. These people probably just mistaken, I'm assuming, or they wanted to see these girls and be part of the hell. Like they wanted to feel like they saw them. And so they were mistakenly thinking, but who knows? It's still strange.

Even though eyewitnesses are notoriously unreliable. We all know that. We see that a million times. It is strange how many people were sure they saw them or interacted with them. Right. Like classmates from school. That's the thing. It's not just strange news.

People who actually knew them. So that's, it's very weird. But the remarkably well-preserved state of the bodies did support the theory that they'd been left packed under snow for quite some time. Wow. Oh my God, you guys drew and I were traveling so much for the wedding this past weekend. And you know, hotel sheets are, you know, whatever, they're fine. We could not wait to get back home to our Buffy sheets. They are these softest sheets on planet earth.

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I felt the very next morning. Crazy. Go to Zbiotics.com slash morbid to get 15% off your first order when you use morbid at checkout. Zbiotics is backed with 100% money back guarantee, so if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money and no questions asked. Remember to head to zbiotics.com, slash morbid, and use the code morbid at checkout for 15% off. Thank you, Zbiotics, for sponsoring this episode and our good times. Now, the bigger problem, though, was that, and no one was going to become aware of this until much later, the bigger problem was that the pathologists who conducted the examinations had been under strict orders from Harry Gloss, who was the representative for the coroner's office, that the coroner's office had to withhold certain sensitive information. For example, the pathologist report and subsequent

news reports clearly stated that neither girl had been sexually molested, which was vague enough to be defensible. If challenged, they could at least defend the wording of that, I guess. But it wasn't exactly true. In fact, when the autopsy was conducted, evidence strongly indicated that Barbara had either been raped or had consensually, but she's 15, so engaged in sexual activity near the time of her death. And how are they able to get away with that because of the wording?

Because I think it's sexually molested. It's different than that. And they're saying here that they couldn't determine whether it was forcible or consensual. Okay. Later it will come out. They were both raped. Both of them.

Mm-hmm. And you should know that right off the bat. They'll like it does come off later that come out later that they were both raped. Well, and that's interesting because there also like one was laid across the other just like in that previous case where the theory boys were raped and laid across each other. Yeah. Like it seems to corral. Yeah. Now, so this is why the coroner's office had done that? Because of that previous case? No. Oh, sorry.

They were trying to protect Barbara's chastity and the image that both the girls were pure. Okay. Which is upsetting. Because so they're trying to hold back this point so that they are still looked at as like children deserving of our one sympathy. They are no matter what because either way, they are not of legally decent. But how anything horrifying is it? It's very fiddly. That they had to think that way. That the coroner's office literally was like, we should protect their reputations by not telling the public or the press that any sexual assault happened because it could be looked at as their fault. Well, everyone, we love hatred.

Take that in, take that in. Like, and that's the thing. I believe the coroner's office believed they were doing something right here. They had good intentions. They had good intentions. They had good intentions. They by no means had bad intentions withholding that, but it didn't help later. It actually ended up hurting.

Right. Obviously, now we know, like now it's like, this was the 50s, obviously. So it's like, they were looking at it as if we release that. People are going to look at them differently. And that's like mind blowing. I'm sure they would have. They are children. And then the other thing is, like, people need to know this information.

If this is something they need to worry about, is their children going out into the streets getting abducted, sexually assaulted and murdered? Well, this hindered the investigation. Yeah. And that's a big time. So we'll get to that for sure. But the discovery was obviously fucking devastating for the Grimes family, particularly I'm not going to say that, but I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that, but I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that.

I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that. I'm not going to say that.

I'm not going to say that. I kept telling the police that they wouldn't run away. She told the store reporters and then she just ran into one of her neighbors home. That's so sad. Now, those who knew the family knew that the deaths would be particularly awful. I mean, losing a child, never mind, too, is unthinkable. But this was the second time that Joseph and LaRetta had lost a child.

In 1954, the couple's 26-year-old daughter, Leona, had died after a kidney operation. Oh, God. So this was, I mean, they've gone through the ringer. Yeah, they lost three of their seven children. And later, LaReta Grimes would be very outspoken about how she felt largely responsible for the deaths of her daughters

because she gave them permission to go out that night. She could have never, ever, ever had known that this would happen. That poor mother. I can't even imagine feeling that way and she doesn't deserve to feel that way. She did not deserve to feel that way. She didn't do anything wrong or out of the ordinary, especially given the time period. And the 50s kids were going at those, that 11, 13 and 14 year old, the case before this one.

Yeah. They were out at 9, 30 at night by themselves. Mm-hm. It was the 50s. It was just the way it was. It was just, the kids got on buses and just came home. And this wasn't even, like we've said it, they're going to the base.

But, and they'd done that a million times. This was in the 50s, especially, going to the movies, going to a diner and playing something on the YouTube box was the thing to do. Kids did it all the time, parents let them do it. This was not strange. That mother did nothing fucking wrong. No, she said that she had to live with back guilt.

That's the thing. And it's like she's sending them to a public place that's safe. And together. Yeah, and like she should have been able to send her kids out to go watch a movie. I just feel so awful for her, because it's like she did not deserve to have that guilt. But you can understand I'm sure as a mom why she did, you know.

Absolutely, and that's what kills me. I'm like, I just wish I could like, I feel like I'm like, sorry, Loretta. I know. But since the discovery of Barbara and Patricia Grimes was the second set of children, like we talked about, found brutally murdered in the Chicago area. Many in the press and public were worried that there was a serial killer of foot abducting

and killing children. Sounds like it. In both cases, the victim's bodies have been found nude in or near a forested area and on top of each other. Investigators believe the inclement weather had helped the killer lure the victims. And all had been like, it was, you know, it was rainy or snowy out so they could be like,

oh, you need a ride. Right. Like, that's easy. And all had last been seen headed to a movie theater. Oh, the three boys were all sure. They were on their way to a movie theater too. They were going to see like, it was like, Disney's like live lion movie

or something like that. That was out that year. That's strange that they were all headed to movies. Now because of all this and I get it, detectives vehemently pursued the case with the possibility that all five murders could somehow be linked. And I get that.

Oh, 100%. I mean, all the factors line up. Now, once the bodies were removed from the scene, a team of more than 70 men began searching the area for any clues that could lead to the killer. They combed that area all along Devil's Creek where the girls were discovered. And the investigators hoped to find anything, any physical evidence like clothing, anything in that debris and garbage that they could link to anybody. But nothing. Nothing. Now at the same time, another team was starting to dig

into the leads pouring into the police. They started putting together a possible suspect list and they started with 53-year-old self-described psychic Walter Kranz. He was top of the list because a week earlier, he had called the police with an anonymous tip saying the girls would be found in Santa Fe Park. Okay.

He refused to give his name when he called, but he said he quote unquote, dreamed of seeing the bodies there. Okay. Police were able to trace the number back to crants, obviously. And he immediately became their number one suspect. Oh. But he passed to polygraph test and tests and after being interviewed for hours and hours,

it was determined he had no involvement in the case. Now just two days after detectives abandoned that investigation, another suspect, Edward Benny Bedwell, came into view. Now according to a cab driver who had seen the girls pictures in the newspaper, he'd seen Barbara and Patricia on the morning of December 30th in the company of two men at the DNL restaurant in Chicago's Skid Row neighborhood. Okay. Now, although he didn't know their names, the cab driver recognized one of the men who

he described as having Elvis Presley sideburns and a ductile haircut. Mmm. Now, investigators spoke to the owners of the DNL restaurant, John and Mini Duros, who confirmed the cab driver's story and identified the one who looked like Elvis as Benny Bedwell. And that would have meant that they spent two days with him. Yes. Okay.

Now, they confirmed that this was Benny Bedwell because the couple who owned the restaurant said that they had actually occasionally hired him to wash dishes. So they knew him well. Yeah. So according to Minnie Duros, the group, so is Benny, who they are saying was Patricia and Barbara Grimes and one other man together.

She said the group had come into the restaurant early that morning and sat in a booth. And she told investigators the older of the two girls was in bad shape. She looked sick or sick or drugged. And she had been sick. Right? She had been sick. Eventually, they all went outside where she saw the two men try to get the girls into a car, but the taller girl came back into the booth and put her head on the table. So when the others came back and tried to get the girl back outside, into the booth and put her head on the table. So when the others came back and tried to get the girl back outside,

Minnie told them to leave her alone. But the three persisted and Minnie became distracted by another customer and when she looked back at the table, she saw the man she identified as Benny Bedwell escorting the girl out of the restaurant. Okay. According to Duros, the group came back later that afternoon, and the taller girl whom she believed to be Barbara

was, quote, carrying on with Benny. So she asked them all to leave. Okay. Now, by the time investigators became aware of Benny Bedwell, there was already three law enforcement agencies pursuing this case together, but not together, independent of one another. Okay. Chicago police had taken the initial missing persons report, Cook County Sheriff's Department

discovered the bodies, and the FBI was following up on the handful of ransom demands that the family had received since the girls went missing. People are so disgusting. Because people are and always will be absolute fucking garbage. Truly. We're garbage, everybody. We're garbage, everybody. We're a garbage species. Garbage.

Now, as is often the case, the famous ego game becomes a problem. And each agency was reluctant to share information with the others and actively with hell shit from each other. It's like, guys, we all have a common cause here. Let's figure out what happened to these two children. Seriously, like, shake your dicks around later. Like there's two children who were fucking raped and murdered.

And you can't get your shit together to give some information to another agency. Could they might get credit for it? Yeah. Like, I don't know any of your names. That's the thing. I don't know any of your names except the ones that actually did the work.

So do the work. Right. And we'll know your names for it. But if you're holding shit, we're not going to know shit. Exactly. In fact, on January 24th, when Sheriff's Department officers arrested Benny Bedwell, Chicago police investigators complained to the press that, quote, they were not informed of the arrest and said it violated a pledge of cooperation among the various law enforcement agencies. So they didn't even tell the other agencies that they arrested the guy.

That's exciting news. Hey, we might have this guy here. And the other agencies are wasting time. Like pursuing other means or breaking. When you've got this guy. Yeah, right. Tail is old as mother fucking time. Imagine not being able to put your ego aside for the sake of solving the abductions, possible rape and murders of two young girls.

Like imagine that. No. So the sheriff's officers eventually tracked bed well to the Stargarder theater. A former Berlesque theater turned movie house in downtown Chicago. Interest. It ran double features all day and night.

The Chicago police had turned out we're right to have complained because rather than fill the other law enforcement agencies in on the arrest, a spokesperson for the Sheriff's Office just went to the press to talk about having a suspect in custody. Going to the press and being like, look, we did it instead of telling the other agencies first. Right. Now, according to their report, 21-year-old Bedwell had grown up in Central Illinois and taken a job with a traveling circus when he was 18.

Oh wow. But he had recently returned to Chicago around the area after a very short stint with the military. And at the time of his arrest, he was living at the McCoy Hotel. Okay. Now, so reporters immediately jumped on the story and started digging in to find more about Benny Bedwell. Less than 24 hours after he was arrested, they had found his mother.

Ethel Bedwell, Brad Berry, who was more than happy to talk about her son. She was 16 when she became the sixth wife to John Bedwell, a man who was 30 years older than she was. Holy shit. She gave birth to John Jr. not long after they were married. And six years later, she had Benny Bedwell, a man who was 30 years older than she was. Holy shit. She gave birth to John Jr. not long after they were married. In six years later, she had Benny Bedwell. Damn.

As far as his mother was concerned, Benny was, quote, a lazy, shiftless bum, just a big lazy boy who didn't like to work. Gross. She didn't know anything about her son's involvement in the case of the missing grime sisters, but she did tell reporters, quote, on several occasions Benny had mentioned having a new girlfriend. Mm. Now in custody, Benny insisted he had never even

met the grime sisters and certainly didn't kill them. He did, however, admit to being at the D&L restaurant on the evening he was spotted there and he said he was with a friend and two girls. Now, according to Bedwell, they were not the grime sisters. He said he had met the two girls in their male companion at the movies that day, and the two had gone to a bar near the theater, left when the bartender refused

to serve the two underage girls, because he loves underage girls. Gross. After that, they went to another bar nearby where they each had three drinks, and he said, we were only in there a little while when the girls went to the washroom. And he said, when were only in there a little while when the girls went to the washroom. And he said, when they came out of the washroom,

they ducked us. We saw them leave. And the other guy said, let's follow them. But he said that he refused. And he claimed that the girls, like they got away. And he said, they ran into the girls a few days later and they ignored him. I bet.

So now the problem was- So that's a weird story, Benny. Well, the problem with this was, this wasn't the first statement Benny gave to police. This was the second one. The initial statement he gave, he claimed he had been out that day with friends that he referred to as Louis and Frank. He said they met up with the girls he identified as being the grime sisters. Okay.

So first he knows them and then he doesn't. According to Benny, he was driving the car and the girls were in the back with his friends and he heard, quote, the sound of scuffling and he looked back to find the two girls were dead. That's his first statement. So he's, I want you to picture this. He's driving a car. There in the back seat, he hears a little bit of scuffling, he looks back, they're dead.

Doubt it. Benny then said the men stripped the girls claving off and forced him to drive out to German church road where they dumped the bodies. When asked why he told that first story, if it wasn't true, Benny said, I thought you would let me go if I told you that. I thought you would let me go if I told you

I was an accessory to murder. Yeah, let's think about that. I thought you would let me go if I told you I was an accessory to murder. Yeah. Let's think about that. It seems legit. Let's do some critical thinking of any boy. I don't think he knows how to do that. Now, while the multiple statements from Benny didn't make him look any less suspicious,

the second story he told police about meeting the girls at a theater who weren't the grand sisters. That was eventually corroborated by the two young women who were part of the story apparently. Whose name's Benny said he had forgotten at the time. Their names were Irene Dean and Carol King. And the other man in the group was Richard Wittenmeyer. So boom, alibi.

Okay. Like the guy came forward and was like, yep, the girls were like, yep, it was us. Do we believe them? So he had already told multiple stories, which was a red flag, obviously. Yeah. And they tried your cooperation,

they were like, that's nice. Well, let's corroborate the story even further. So they went to the owners of the DNL restaurant where like, were these the girls? Like do you recognize these girls? The owners of the DNL restaurant swore that Dean and King were not the girls that they had seen Benny with.

I wonder if somebody intimidated those girls. This was further suspect because there were many other witnesses who told investigators they had also seen Barbara and Patricia Grimes with Benny on or around the time they went missing. Yeah, so there you go. Now in fact, between the night they went missing

in the week that followed, no less than eight witnesses claimed to have seen the girls in the company of two men. Each including in their statement a factor detail that would not have been known to the public. Okay, a fucking, like, there you go. Like, for example, a waitress at Mount Pindos restaurant told detectives she'd seen the girls in the restaurant

with two men, and as they were leaving, she heard one of the girls refer to the other as PD, which was Patricia's family nickname. Oh, wow. Also, most of the witnesses indicated, or at least implied that the girls looked uncomfortable and looked like they were not exactly with these men slash pigs. Involved like voluntarily. Right.

Things got more complicated on December 28th, the day after statements were taken from Whit and Maya Dean and King. Because now Benny Bedwell made another statement. Early that morning, Chicago police arrested a guy named William Willingham, Jr. who was a known associate of bedwells. They'd picked up on a disorderly contact charge. Okay.

When they showed Willingham a photo of Benny Bedwell, he admitted knowing Benny, but strenuously denied having anything to do with the Grimes murders and told police, I don't know anything about this and I never went out with those girls. And it's like, oh, that sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering.

That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering.

That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suffering. That sounds a little self-suff statement. That included the Grimes sisters. Right. Now, according to Benny now,

he'd met both girls Patricia and Barbara Grimes on the evening of January 7th. Nope. At Harold's Club. And they were in the presence of a man he referred to as Frank. Benny claimed they had a few drinks at the club and then got a room at the Crest Hotel. There, he said he, quote, went to bed with Patricia

with Frank with Barbara. Benny claimed all four of them spent several days drinking and driving and stopping at random bars and friends apartments where they kept drinking heavily. Finally, on the 11th or 12th, they stopped for gas and to get some lunch with the girls and the girls went to use the bathroom at a gas station. When they got back, both men indicated they wanted to find a place to have sex.

But both the girls refused and he said that they both both the men got violent. In a recorded confession, Benny told Sheriff Joseph Lomon, I hit Patricia Harder than I was aiming to on the chin. Okay. Both men, he said, knocked both girls unconscious, like beat them unconscious. And he's one of these guys. Yes, him in Frank.

Frank, yes. They immediately thought they had killed the girls, so they drove them up to the little used German church road, stripped them of their clothing, and dumped them behind the guardrail. The sheriff asked whether they knew the girls were dead or not, and Benny said they didn't move anyway. I didn't know the girls were dead.

I figured they would come to and go for help. I didn't do it intentionally. Well, and then that makes sense because they believed that they had died of exposure. So he beat them unconscious and then left them there. And that, because I was saying, in my head, I was like, they died of exposure but like did they try to get homes somehow or don't worry we'll get through we'll talk about that. So

Benny said it wasn't until several days after this that he read about the grime sisters in the paper and realized that it was them. He claimed to neither one of them had mentioned running away from home and never mentioned they were being looked for. They also said he only met Frank a couple of times, didn't know his last name. Benny said when they got back to the city after this whole thing, they departed from each other and hadn't seen Frank since. Okay. Now his statement was read back to him for clarification and Benny identified Barbara and

Patricia Grimes from photographs presented to him by the sheriffs, confirming they were the girls he'd been with. Then with his statement having been taken, Benny guided investigators on a 50-mile tour of where he and Frank had taken the girls, ending at the site on German Church Road where the bodies were found. Now along the way, hundreds, if not thousands, watched and followed this whole ordeal, the press referred to this whole thing as, quote, a tragic circus parade at high speed, which is chilling. Yeah.

So Sheriff Lohman was immediately convinced of Benny's guilt, particularly because it seemed to be in line with what they've learned from witnesses in the days prior. And just the fact that he's told about 40 different stories. In fact, one of the witnesses who claimed to have seen the girls after they disappeared was Leonard Was and employee at a service station not far from where the girls bodies was discovered. According to Was, all four had stopped at the gas station in early January. He couldn't be certain of the date.

And the girls asked to use the restroom. Boom. As they were leaving, was claimed the girl he identified as Barbara, quote, gave him a strange look, which he interpreted as her desire not to get back in the car. Oh no. I love that not, not a one person has stepped in

to be like, girl, are you okay? Well, that's a thing. Are you all right? Because everything's okay. All these adults are like, yeah, it looks like they were being abducted. okay. All these adults are like, yeah, it looked like they were being abducted. It was wild.

It's like, I don't know fuck faces. Why don't you go ask that child if they're okay? What the fuck is wrong with you? And it's like, clearly, they looked young enough that you wouldn't go ask them because at one place they weren't served. Yeah. Because they're so young. It's never a bad thing to just be like, hey, you all right?

Yeah. Do you need help? Yeah. Like, what the fuck, dude? Especially when there were these like two older men. Yeah, like come on guys. Wow. Now, there were some people though, who didn't really buy Benny's confession.

He had lied a lot. Well, and like what number confession is this? And he had told a lot of stories by this point. And although some of his stories seem like it was being confirmed by witnesses and shit, there was a lot that didn't make a lot of sense. Well, there is, like, you know, confirmation. Like, there's one big thing. So, Benny had claimed both, there's a couple of big things actually.

Benny had claimed both girls ate hot dogs for lunch at the service station. Okay. The autopsy said, no. There were no hot dogs in their stomachs. In fact, there was nothing recent in their stomachs. Interesting. Both girls had light bruising on their faces, but not enough to corroborate a beating that would knock them unconscious.

Okay. Like Benny had described. Yeah, he described it as very violent. Yeah, and he said when they dumped, when they dumped those, he thought he had killed them. Right. Also, did you remember the puncture wounds in the chest? I was just about to ask, where did he never mention those? No, where did those come from?

I mean, Benny never mentioned those. The press immediately pointed out all of this and his confession was now being questioned by everyone. But there are so many things that he did know that do make sense. Well, there's also another problem here because the biggest issue that everyone had with his confession was that Benny claimed

to have engaged and repeated sexual intercourse with Patricia. But according to the autopsy report that everyone knew about, neither girl was, quote, sexually experienced. Meaning neither had engaged with the sexual intercourse. Because remember, they were withholding that information. Right. So now the public is hearing this confession involving that and they're saying, well, it can't be true. neither had engaged with insexual intercourse. Because remember, they were withholding that information. Right.

So now the public is hearing this confession. And involving that, and they're saying, well, it can't be true. But it is. In fact, when reporters asked one of the pathologists whether the girls were chased, he refused to answer the question. Because again, remember, the corners are being told you're not allowed to say it. Right. He said the question, and his answer was that that's a question of morals, not science.

So he was like, I'm not answering that. I'm not telling you whether these girls are chased. That's not that's like a pinion. That's not science. I'm going to talk about science. Like, let's not put that in your story, asshole. In truth, his refusal, again, was the direct results of being under strict orders from the coroner's office to protect their reputation

and not answer those questions. Loretta Grimes, on the other hand, wasted no time reinforcing what the autopsy had included. She said, our girls came from a good home and were brought up in religious surroundings. He's not right. She said of Benny Bedwell, and she insisted that he was lying. She said, I want to see my girls clothing before I believe anything, even then I won't believe what Bedwell says about their being in bars, which I don't blame her.

No, of course not. More than any of the other inconsistencies in Benny's confession, which I think the puncture wounds are huge in consistency, he never mentioned them. And I think if you stabbed the girls three times with an ice pickage, you would mention that in your confession. Did he head back to the car though and Frank did that?

I don't know. To ensure that they were dead. I don't know. But his insistence that he engaged in sex with one or both of these girls was held up by the press, the family, and many others as evidence that he was lying. After all, the autopsy report indicated that had not happened, so there was no way he could be telling the truth. Unfortunately, it would be many years before anyone learned that the coroner's office

had, out of some misguided sense of decency, can basically conspired to suppress certain results to protect them, their innocence. This is so interesting. And in truth, several members of the Sheriff's Department had seen the autopsy slides, and years later would confirm, like I said, that both girls had been sexually assaulted before their deaths.

Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. We're moving from one of the most magical times of the year, spooky season, to the other magical time of the year.

Speaking of, what's your favorite Christmas story? Oh, hands down the Grinch. Same. It cracks me up that he hates all Maryman. Same. But then it's so heartwarming at the end when the whole town's singing and he realizes there's more to Christmas than just Giff. If I had feels, it would hit me right in them.

Well, the best part is, Wondery has a new podcast starring the Grinch, and I think there's more to Christmas than just GIF. If I had fields, it would hit me right in them. Well, the best part is, Wondery has a new podcast starring the Grinch, and I think there's someone who wants to tell you more about it. Hi, it's me, the Grand Puba of Bahambad, the OG Green Grump, the Grinch. From Wondery, Tis the Grinch Holiday Talk Show is a pathetic attempt by the people of O'Vill to use my situation as a teachable movement. So join me, the Grinch! Listen as I launch a campaign against Christmas cheer, grilling celebrity guests, like chestnuts on an open fire! Your family will love the show!

As you know, I'm famously great with kids. Follow Tis the Grinch Holiday Talk Show on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcasts. the Grinch Holiday talk show on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Now, despite the many flaws in the case, Lohmann remained convinced of Benny Bedwell's guilt. I'm kind of convinced. I'm not. You're not. Okay. And he accepted the confession and he booked the man on murder charges and intended to see

the case through to trial. So the announcement of Benny Bedwell's confession and the impending indictment brought some comfort to the people of Chicago. Yeah. Particularly those who had been increasingly anxious over the rising, you know, instances of children being abducted and raped and murdered in the city and the surrounding areas. But for others, Benny seemed like a scapegoat in a case that multiple law enforcement agencies

had failed to solve. Okay. Benny's pro bono lawyer, David Bradshaw, told reporters, the boy in this case is wholly illiterate, doesn't understand what's going on and has found himself the main object in a case of nationwide interest. Loretta Grimes agreed.

Really? Telling reporters, he's changed his story so many times. Who wouldn't? He's had no sleep and nothing to eat. She's a consummate mama. Yeah, she really is. She's literally like the boy hasn't had anything to eat and he hasn't slept.

He's gonna say whatever. Like she's just looking at it out like this is a 21 year old. Right. Like Loretta Grimes is a mama bear. Like, that's my girl. She really is. But she didn't agree. She did not think that this was the guy.

All right. Well, I respect how she, whatever she thinks, because you also have to think that there's some mama in state terror. In state terror. Now, Benny's lawyer, David Bradshaw, believed investigators wonder intense pressure to solve this case, obviously.

And since Benny was their only real suspect, they pursued him despite all the contradictions in his confession. And it's like, okay, I understand pursuing him like based on some of the things he was saying, but don't do it exclusively at the expense of finding other people. I think it reminds me of something,

the West Memphis III. It reminds me of like when they just went forward with Jesse Muskele even though there was several contradictions in his confession, they just corrected them. That confession is one of the saddest things you will ever have in your life. Now also Bradshaw believed his client was being scapegoated because the public and many in law enforcement continued to cling to the Grimesisters purity. And they refused to believe that the two teenagers had gone anywhere near Skid Row bars and theaters,

and that like something could have happened. Yeah. So he was like, I think he's just being put up here as like the easy way to understand all of this. And at that point his lawyer also didn't know about the truth. So it's like, yeah. So the more investigators dug into Benny's story,

the less likely it seemed he was telling the truth. William Willingham, the friend that had been arrested when he was, had told investigators that he had gone out drinking with Benny around the time the girls won missing and that he swore the girls were with, the girls that they were with were Irene Dean and Carol King. And the results of his polygraph test indicated he was telling the truth.

Oh, interesting. Also when Dean and King were shown photos of Benny Bedwell and William Wellington, they again identified them as the men they had been out with at the DNL restaurant among other places. So they were like, that was us. That's interesting. Now a coroner's inquest began on January 30th, 1957, and much of what was learned did little to support Benny's confession.

It was determined that the girls had most likely been abducted shortly after they left the movie theater a little after 11.30 p.m. At that time, Benny Bedwell was known to have been at work. The inquest also demonstrated the extent to which so many involved in the case were committed to protecting the quote unquote innocence of Barbara and Patricia. At one point while the girl's school friend Dorothy Weiner was testifying that she saw both of them buying popcorn and a candy bar at the movie, Loretta jumped up out of her chair and started calling the girl a liar. Because she said, she had only given

the money for movies. And she said she insisted that she gave her money for the bus ride, the ticket, for the movies, and one popcorn. So because of how sensitive everything was, just because this school friend had said that these girls had an additional 30 cents, many interpreted it as that they must have been dishonest or they'd done something immoral to get that 30 cents. Wow. So that's why LaRetta jumped up and was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, like this is, no, I gave them this amount.

But that's how ridiculous it had gotten. That's insane. Now, after three days of testimony, Betty Bedwell, once again, recanted his 14-page confession, saying he had only confessed because he was threatened and beaten by police. Oh, wow. In fact, he again said he had never met or seen the grime sisters and only knew the case through the newspapers. Benny had told so many conflicting stories by this point that it would have been reasonable

for anyone to be skeptical of this latest one. At that point, I mean, come on. But now the corner's inquest, that was starting to show that he was probably innocent. He was probably like innocent of this, I should say. Well, the inquest was in its third day, the lab in toxicology, college reports came back and found that both girls most likely died December 28th. The night they disappeared. Wow.

Also, there was no alcohol in either of the girl's systems and the contents of their stomachs turned up particles of fish and potatoes on those later reports, not hot dogs. Okay. Bedwell had only claimed that they had eaten hot dogs and that was in January. And do you have any idea Floretta said like they had fish in between the two days? I'm assuming only claimed that they had eaten pot dogs and that was in January. And do you have any idea Floretta said like they had fish in between the two?

I'm assuming that's what they had for dinner. I didn't see it in any of the things, but because they weren't concerned by it. They were going to a later movie. Yeah, and that movie was later and they weren't concerned about these. They weren't using it as part of the investigation. So I'm assuming that was from home. It also just sounds like a family. It does.

Now, a few days later, on February 6th, a bail bondsman named Morris Brown put up the $20,000 bail for Bedwell's release. He believed him innocent, so Benny was released from custody. Wow. Now, when Benny Bedwell got out of jail and was seemingly exonerated by the findings of the autopsy in the corner's inquest.

Investigators were just back to square one. Detectives and deputies from the Chicago Police Department and Cook County Sheriff's Department returned to German Church Road and the theater where the girls had gone the night they disappeared, but they couldn't find anything else to help them. Investigators revisited their previous suspects. They found a couple that seemed promising at some point, but then they would go nowhere. The most promising of these suspects was 17-year-old Max Flieg. There's little known about Max Flieg, but he was picked up by police shortly after the

bodies were discovered and was convinced by Captain Ralph Pataki to take a polygraph test. According to author Troy Taylor, Max failed the polygraph exam and confessed to the murders, but quote, because the test was illegal and inadmissible, the police were forced to let him go. Because he was coerced into taking the... Yeah, gotcha.

Now, as the month and years went by, there would be other suspects, people would confess to it again. None of them were strong enough to get a conviction. In late 1962, Alfred Lawless, an Illinois prisoner about to be released from jail on a drunken disorderly charge, claimed that he had killed the grime sisters. Quote, six years ago today, I killed Barbara and Patricia Grimes, and I've been running over ever since. He told, quote, six years ago today, I killed Barbara and Patricia Grimes and I've been running away ever since. He told, so according to him, he had met the girls at the theater the night they disappeared and he murdered them a few hours later. He said, I had to tell somebody about the murders.

I'm scared that if I didn't, I might do the same thing again to other innocent girls. Okay. But like Benny's confession years before, his story was surprisingly detailed, but all the information he provided, no matter how small the detail, had been reported by the press. So investigators were like, I don't know about that. Those doubts only grew when Lawless began confessing to other crimes, including the murder of a man in Jamestown, Kentucky 15 years earlier, in which Lawless got many of the details around. So I think he got many of the details around.

So I think he was just off the deep end. In fact, when they started to take a closer look at his story, there were more than a few important discrepancies and investigators were like, no, he's not a viable suspect. Now in time, unfortunately, the leads began to dry up and slowly but surely, it seems like the story kind of disappeared first from the press, then from the public's memory. And after years of inaction, the case had gone cold and was shelved by all law enforcement agencies. That's awful.

Now, the Grimes sisters cold case had sat on a shelf for more than 50 years when it was rediscovered by a retired West police officer, Ray Johnson. Let's go. In 2010, Johnson began going over old newspaper articles and reviewing the evidence in the case for a book he hoped to write. He told reporters, I thought nobody should give up on this case. And two years into his research, he contacted by a woman who claimed she had been with Barbara and Patricia the night they disappeared, but she was too scared to go to the police in 1957 to tell

them what she knew. According to this anonymous woman, she left the theater with the sisters when they were offered and accepted a ride from a man in his early 20s. But this woman became uncomfortable and had jumped out of the car when it slowed down and left the sisters in the car. Now, eventually, Johnson came across a report from Loretta Grimes about one of the anonymous calls she received about the time the girls went missing. Because remember, people have always been and will always be fucking garbage. So she was getting a ton of anonymous phone calls while she was grieving her children missing. Again, garbage were garbage.

Like what goes through people's heads? Now unlike the previous ransom calls in her ass meant, this caller seemed to know things about the case that people, other people didn't. He claimed, quote, he was the one who, who undressed the girls. And then he hung up the phone. That poor fucking woman. That's so sick. A little over a year later, Loretta received another call from an anonymous man who told her he, quote,

got away with another one. And he said this time, the police would not be able to pin this one on Benny Bedwell. The next day, after this call, police found the decapitated body of 15-year-old Bonnie Lee Scott in nearby Addison. Oh, my whole entire body. Only about three miles from where Barbara and Patricia's bodies were discovered.

Oh, and that nope. Eventually, police arrested 23-year-old Charles Melquest for that murder, and he quickly confessed. He said, I'm sorry about it all, I don't care what happens to me. He was convicted of the murder of Scott, but only served eight years in prison due to what he says were his connections to the Chicago machine. The murder of Bonnie Lee Scott bears many similarities to the Grimesisters case, but there's no real connection that they could pull on. Melquest had connections to Sheldon Teller, who had been one of the lead investigators

on the Grimes case, but John, that retired detective that was looking into this case and found all this. He believed that Charles Melquest could be the murderer in the Grimes case, but Teller, who he was connected to, who was the lead investigator in the Grimes case, but teller, who he was connected to, who was the lead investigator in the Grimes case, had connections to the Chicago machine, and helped Mellquest skirt the charges. That's also why he got such a light sentence for the other murder and got away with shit. Is the machine like the mob? The mob, yeah. Now, unfortunately, Charles Melquest died in 2010. Well, how strange.

That's the same year that the author decided. Yeah. But at the time of his arrest, he was considered a strong suspect in the Grimes case. And Johnson believes he could very well be the man who killed Barbara and Patricia Grimes. Well, never know. As of now, the case remains open. And Johnson hopes new information can be found to link MelQuest fititively to the case

and finally solve the heartbreaking murders of Patricia and Barbara Grimes. I think Charles MelQuest is the guy. Really? I think it's the guy. Wow. And unfortunately, we're not gonna be able to fully get the justice justice and maybe someday,

you never know. And unfortunately, Loretta Grimes has passed away at this point. So, but it's like, but I'm sure maybe they have living siblings. Yeah, I'm hoping or six. Like I'm hoping something, I just want this family to have like the closure, you know. And I really do believe. I think the fact that this kind of shit happens, these are a 13 year old and a 15 year old girl, both abducted from movie theater, found naked, raped, stabbed, beaten, and murdered

on the side of the road. And people are calling this family and pranking them. It's on fucking mirror. What the fuck is wrong with you? A laundry list of things. All I can hope is that karma like just bites them in the ass. I hope karma.

It really helps. Choose on their ass. Like Jesus. People are so fucked. Any time I hear about that shit, I'm like, you gotta be, to harm her. I'm going to really help. She's on their ass. Like, Jesus. People are so fucked. I need time to hear about that shit. I'm like, you gotta be, especially when it's a child involved, I'm like, you have to be truly deranged.

Oh, I'm not gonna get deranged. I'm not gonna get deranged. Just feral fucking animal to do that shit. Like, it makes me so angry. It's just, you can't even value it. And that these people going through what they went through and her having that guilt that she was living with, that she did not deserve to have, but she's a mother,

that guilt she had, and to be having to deal with fucking pigs calling her and pranking her. And saying disgusting things. And saying disgusting shit, like, man, you deserve what you get. Society, man. But, it's rough. I think Charles Melquest is a great, great suspect for this.

I really do believe he is. The fact that he got eight years for decapitating a young girl. That poor girl's family's connections. Because of his connections. Being in the trial or in the courtroom for sentencing. Yeah. And you find out the man that decapitated your child gets eight years. And he's 23.

I mean, that's nothing. Yeah, nothing. Yeah, he's going to be a young guy just walking out of there. And I'd be interested to see or to hear. I would love to follow what the rest of his life was. There's no way that man stopped what he was doing. Yeah. So it's like, somebody needs to...

And I'm hoping, hoping who knows maybe Johnson there is working on it, is piecing together what that guy was doing because I would love to find out and start digging into what his life was after us. I mean, he lived until 2010. Yeah. So I would like to know what happened there.

And I hope that somebody's looking into it and I'm like, can I help? Because you would imagine that he would have gotten out of jail sometime in like the late 60s, early 70s, I think. So to be honest, I'm probably going to start trying to dig into this guy's life because it's bothering me. And I'm like, and I know this retired police detective is probably on that ship.

But I'm like, of course, I'm just going to do this for my own personal well-being because I need to fucking know what this guy was doing. Yeah, I mean, maybe we can do like some kind of follow-up. Yeah, I would love to. If who knows if you'll find enough. Yeah. If, hey, keep us updated, man.

I know. I'm like, I'm like, you know what? Please, Ray Johnson, please let me know what the fuck is going on. If you're listening, let's get together. Let's squat up, Ray. But yeah, this is a horrific, horrific tale. And it doesn't have the ending that you're really looking for. But it's got something at the end. They feel like there's something to work with.

Yeah, what an interesting case all around though. Just all the eyewitnesses afterwards. And then the very stories and the people that were so convinced that they saw Benny with him didn't. So convinced, perhaps. Yeah, it's really, it's fucked up. It is.

It's really fucked up. And I hope the Grimes family was able to move past it. I know. I'm gonna move past it, but you know, move forward. Yeah, yeah. Well, with that, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. I got nothing. Yeah, don that, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. I got nothing.

Yeah, don't be this. Don't call people who are going through things and prank them, you piece of shit. There you go. Don't keep it that weird. Don't do that. I'm going to be a little bit more patient. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash

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