Morbid - Episode 52: The Missing Panama Tourists Mini Morbid

Episode Date: March 16, 2019

For Alaina's Mini Morbid, we will take a look at the baffling case of Kris Kremers and Lisanne Froon. After embarking on a philanthropic journey to Central America from the Netherlands, both young women went missing in the Panama jungle in 2014. When scant remains of the missing women were found some time later, along with cell phones that called for help several times and a camera with spooky photos, the case took a turn from confusing to scary. What happened to Kris and Lisanne out there? Sources: https://www.elitereaders.com/photos-tourists-mysteriously-disappeared/ https://allthatsinteresting.com/kris-kremers-lisanne-froon https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-lost-girls-of-panama-the-full-story See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wandery pod or text wandery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. Angie has made it easier than ever to connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Just bring them your project online, or with the Angie app, and answer a few questions. With Angie, you can book instantly at an upfront price, or request and compare quotes from multiple pros, so you can find the best price for your project.

So the next time you have a home project, just Angie that and start getting the most out of your home. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's ANGI.com. Hey weirdos, I'm Elena, I'm Ash and this is a mini morbid. Whoa, mini mini mini mini mini morbid, mini morbid mini more bad mini-more-bit mini-more-bit mini-more-bit You guys love that song and so do we We got a couple of people ask and I didn't even tell you this until right now Oh tell me if we could make that available as a ringtone Does the patreon and I was like yeah, how do we do that?

I don't know, but I'm going to figure it out, and I'm going to make it available to the fations because they asked. Imagine if people used it as an alarm sound. That'd be amazing. And the human population woke up to my voice. I just want to put it out there, Ash. You wrote a hit.

Ah! Being you wrote composed and produced a hit so I would make the Academy for considering me it's very impressive you know but um I'm the next Mary J. Blash you are I don't know why she's the first person I was gonna say in my head wow that was like well did she sing don't go chasing waterfalls? No, that's teal. I'm gonna go ahead and cut that up. We are going to, I just want to quickly start off on kind of a giant bummer note.

No, I know. But I think it's important to say, today while we record, we all woke up to the news that there was a pretty horrific terrorist attack in New Zealand in Christchurch. We love New Zealand. I love New Zealand and some of our greatest listeners. I think I want to say like 49 people are dead. Yeah I run and the last thing I run. So we just wanted to quickly put out there that New Zealand we love you. Yes I thought so. The world knows this we love you. Yes, our thoughts are with the world.

The world knows this isn't you. This is one really, really, really bad apple. We all have some trust. We're in the United States, so we know all about it. We really are. And we're really sorry. And we wanted to show support for you guys and show support for the Muslim community in New Zealand. So absolutely. So yeah yeah so we just wanted to put that out there it was important but we'll move on from it and I think the first thing we're gonna do is thank a few Patreon donors because again we're working our way through and we decided to do five in episode now so that we don't bog you guys down with too many names all at once but we'll get to everybody and like they said

it's more exciting to hear it and it's more fun and it's gonna last forever, so it's fun. Forever. So, Ollie will start this off. We have four members of the window-latching coven coming your way. Whoa. First one is Kenzie Rouser. Kenzie Rouser. You are your arousing to our senses

Yeah, it's a rousing kensy that you donated to our patreon. So thank you But we love you the next one coming up here the next patronis is Eleanor painter Eleanor painter you could paint me a picture on picture any day. You painted your way right into our hearts. Yeah you did. Thank you Eleanor. Thanks. The next one is Ashley Profit. Ashley, my name is Ashley. As a fellow Ashley, I would like you, or I would like to thank you for giving us profit. Thank you Ashley profit. Thank you so much Ashley. You're welcome. No one calls me Ashley. No, that was dark. Our next patronis is Taylor Jeff's. Taylor Jeff's. I hope that you're not like Warren Jeffs. I was just

thinking that too. I immediately went there in my brain. But if you are, thanks for donating and keep a a big radius of distance from us. Thanks Taylor. Thank you so much. Thank you so much Taylor. I know you're not like word Jeff's because- I know that, but with the last name, this is a true crime podcast. This is first place we go. So, the last patronus that we're gonna thank today is Taya Edwards, who upgraded to a jagged love bitch Taya Taya Welcome, girl We love you, Taya. Yeah, we do. I also love your name. That's a cool last name. I do a great name We've had a lot of great names guys. We fucking love you in your names

And I'm so humbled by your donations and you're Just everything you guys love you guys. The reason we're able to do this is because of you. So we love you so much. And we're going to be doing a Listener Stories episode two, coming up very shortly because we were getting a lot of really cool Listener Stories. We're reading all of them just so you know, even if we

haven't responded yet. We will be responding just to make sure people don't mind just sharing them. Yeah. So keep an eye out for that if you've sent one in, or if we haven't responded yet, we will be responding just to make sure people don't mind us sharing them. Yeah. So keep an eye out for that if you've sent one in or if you have one. Let's just been brewing under the surface. Nose at the time. Send it to us.

It's the time. We're going to do our first listener story coming up. So, yeah, that's about all the biz-ness. So let's just jump right into this, huh? Yeah, what's your mini morbid about? So today, I'm going to be talking about the missing girls in Panama. Oh snizzy snappity. I'm talking about 21 year old Chris Kremers and 22 year old Lisa and Fruon.

Oh my god. Now this story is Broncos bananas, kuinan man. Oh my god. I'm able to sleep tonight. It's unsolved. Although if you talk to authorities over there, it's solved. But a lot of people like mm-hmm. That doesn't make sense. There's a lot of twists and turns here. Oh, we love a loopy road. We're just going to start this right off. Let's go. Both of them Chris Cremers and Lee Sanfran are Hikers and they were Taurus from the Netherlands. Wait a second. I know this case crazy case. Oh, I'm afraid of this case. It is a scary case. You suck. I know. They both went missing in early 2014 while taking a hike in Panama

scattered and scant remains were eventually found but how they died in the circumstances surrounding their disappearance is still hotly contested. Oh damn it, I'm so freaked out. So Lee San Fruin was born to Peter and Dini Fruin on September 24th 1991 in Amzer Fort in the Netherlands. Those who knew her described her as brave, she like take risks, she'll go like skydiving, super athletic, especially in volleyball, she was like a huge volleyball star, and she was highly intelligent. She was also like had a very athletic physique, she was six feet tall, and she loved photography. After graduating from college with a degree in Applied Sciences and Psychology, she moved

in with her friend Chris Cremors, who she worked at some cafe with, they worked together. Okay. Chris Cremers was born August 9th, 1992, to Hans and Roli in Amesr Fort in the Netherlands as well. She was described as very outgoing, she was an actress at one point, she had strawberry blonde hair, blue eyes, she had two brothers, one older, one younger. In college at Utrecht University, she studied cultural, social, education, and focused on art education.

Wow. Supposedly, I'm like super smart. I was gonna say. Super athletic. From everything I read, it looks like Lee San was like the risk, the more risk-taker of the two. Chris would go along with things, but she was a little more cautious when it came to the stuff. So to celebrate Lee Sands recent graduation in the spring of 2014, the two of them planned

like an epic trip to Panama. They were going to volunteer as social workers. It was not only were they super smart, super athletic, super brave, they were also super philanthropic. I love that word. I know I do too. The trip would focus on doing some philanthropic work with the locals while there, and they also wanted to learn Spanish

in a real world setting. Right. So I'm assuming they knew some Spanish, and they just kind of wanted to use it in the real world, trying to get better at it. They both saved for six straight months for the trip, and they planned to stay in Panama for six weeks. On March 15th, 2014, they departed from Amsterdam and landed in Panama. For the first two weeks, they just toured Panama.

Because when they first arrived, the administrators from the program, they were volunteering for were like, weren't ready to receive them yet. So when they got there, they were like, I don't know what do we do. So they just hung out and toured Panama did touristy things. And long as going wild. I know. I don't know if you guys can hear it. My neighbor's dog is like losing a shit. It's gone crackly. After the two weeks, they then arrived in Boquette on the 29th. This was the beginning of the one month of volunteering. They were going to do with children. Okay. At this point, they were staying with a host family there and they were

planning to stay with this family for about four weeks. Okay. April 1st, 2014, this is when the story really begins. At around 11 a.m. Chris and Lee Sam set out on a hike. Never a good plan. Just don't hike everybody. Fuck that. If we learn anything from diet love past, don't do it. Just don't hike everybody fuck that. We learned anything from diet love pass Don't do it. Just don't now you You need a tour guide to hike as a tourist in Panama because it's super intense like the jungles are nuts Like nuts, so they really do recommend like you to have a tour guide, but they didn't go with the tour guide Well, no not this time and this was this was really dangerous to do.

And actually one of the last journal entries that Chris wrote in her journal was quote, go with the Panamanian flow. This hike took them into the clouded forests that surround the Baroo volcano. That sounds pretty intense. It is very intense. Now these kind of forests, clouded forests are just straight up like rain forest style. Oh. Like these flash floods, these mudslides, like it can be dangerous because there's a lot of rain that happens, but if you catch it in like the right time, the ice part is beautiful. This trail was not far from Bookette where they were staying and they even took their host family's dog Blue with them. Oh, they did. Yeah, I didn't know that. Blue was a husky kind of dog,

and apparently they were intending to hike to the Continental Divide, which was like a four hour hike each way. Okay. And once you get to the Continental Divide, it's like you can look over to these amazing views and all this good stuff, but if you go on the other side,

it's just like pandemonium. Like it's just like scary. So many jungles and just not trails that you want to take and stuff. Oh shit. So this trail was, they took is known for the most part and has like three parts to it. The first part is pretty open and has like, beautiful scenery and pastures that just like open up around it. So it's like, apparently amazing. It's pretty easy to hike at this point. Okay. Then you enter the straight up jungle. Which I'd be like, I'm leaving. Yeah Which I'd be like, I'm leaving you.

Yeah, I'd be like, I'm seeing. My Frappuccino's gone. Yeah, done. Vegetation, insects, animals, everywhere. Insects by. Yeah, in like, Panama insects. Yeah, it's no good. So, that takes about an hour and a half.

And then you enter the cloud forest. Okay. Which is supposed to be fucking amazing. The Cloud Forest is known. It's literally what it sounds like. Then another 30 minutes into that, you're going up the mountain and that's when you're above the clouds. Oh, that's so cool. It's supposed to be unreal. I can't imagine.

But if you go across the divide, like I said, then you're entering the thick jungles with trails not made for tourists. There's like canyons, ravines, gorges, and shit that you just the only way across most of these things on that side of the continental divide is by these things called monkey bridges. Oh no which are just straight up rope and all it is is two rope like rope on either side of you that you hold and then one rope that you stand on. So you're holding them and then just walking across. Now when they set out on this hike, they only had one bottle of water

and no food with them. Interesting. They were planning on going on a short on this hike. That's it. Hiking the four hours up, hiking the four hours back. Girl, I eat every four hours. And I made you all. But they didn't pack for some crazy hike.

They start to get up to this thing, see the sights and come back down. Now the pair even posted on social media that they were going to walk around Bokette before this and they there are confirmed witnesses that say they saw them having brunch with two other Dutchmen before going out on the trail. Okay so originally when people hear this they're like who the fuck are those dudes like some weird man I don't it but they apparently knew these men. You can never look at the first spots. Yeah, you can't.

And they had photos with them like hanging out at the beach and stuff like that where I actually like acquaintances. They were like acquaintances, so it wasn't strange. Things took a turn for the really bad when evening fell. The really bad. And blue returned home without Chris or Lee San. Oh, nope.

The host family was freaking out. That's wild, like he ran back home. Go Blue. Go Blue. The host family started freaking out and they eventually got in touch with Lee San's parents. Okay. Because they were like, we don't know what's going on here.

Lee San's parents immediately became worried when they were not getting any messages back from her and they couldn't, she wasn't contacting them, they couldn't contact her. Right. The family had been using the WhatsApp to keep and touch throughout the trip. Yeah, that makes sense.

So the next day, the police were finally called. They were called by a tour guide named Feliciano, who was supposed to meet the girls in the morning at about 8 a.m. But when they failed to show up, he became really concerned. The next day. Yeah.

So they were meeting him because they had arranged for him to take them on a hike at like 8 a.m. So why did they go out on their own the day before? I mean, like for a short hike, I get that. But that's not even still. It's like you need guides for this kind of stuff. Even for the one before the... It's just necessary.

You should have a guide. It's just like one of those things you should really have a guide But maybe they were just like what I like and it's like you're going on a hike at 8 a.m. The next morning like maybe chill Yeah, I know people that like really love a good hike though. Yeah, I don't know It's just a strange little detail that people were like the police went straight to the host family And they determined immediately that Chris and Lee Sand had never had never returned from the hike like they were telling them the truth because at first they were like, April 3 is when the searching began. They utilized aerial searching, they had locals including farmers and indigenous tribes to help with like a decent size search. April 6, both of the girls' parents flew into Panama,

accompanied by Dutch police as well. Oh, wow. The Dutch police force came with special forces, detectives, and canine units. Shit. For 10 days straight, all of these entities searched but came up with absolutely nothing. Not a shred of evidence that they were even in that jungle.

That's where you're nothing Nothing. 10 days straight. It's a huge jungle though, yeah. Yeah, but they were going on the... How was it supposed to be going? They couldn't find anything. And they were using aerial searches. They found nothing. Wow. Their parents released a $30,000 reward for any information about their whereabouts at this point. Oh, that's so sad. It wasn't until 10 weeks later on June 14th

that a backpack was brought into the police. The backpack was found by a Nagobi woman. A Nagobi is like the local indigenous tribe. She had found it near River Bank in Alto Romero in the region of Boca Stel Toro. This place was 12 hours by foot from the continental divide. They were hiking to the continental divide. And stopping in the turn of the road. This place where her backpack was found was 12 hours by foot from the continental divide. Okay, so they would have had to do that rope bridge.

They would have had to walk 12 hours from the continental divide. Yeah, so clearly they didn't walk that far. It's very far. So the woman who brought it into the police said she knew that bag wasn't there the day before While she was tending to her rice patty near the river. Oh shit And it's not like it was in the she said it didn't look like you know It looks like somebody put it there right after a search of the contents Which included 83 dollars in cash two bras two pairs of sunglasses Lee Sandsands passport, a water bottle, a cannon power shot, excess 270 camera, Lee Sands Samsung Galaxy phone, and Chris's

iPhone 4. Everything was dry as a bone and in great condition. That's weird. It was determined that the bag did belong to Lee Sands. There's two bras in there? Yeah. I mean, I think they were like bras or like bikini tops or something. I was like, that's kind of weird. Yeah. I mean, I think they were like bras or like bikini tops or something. I was like, that's kind of weird. It was the phones in the camera that provided the most evidence, but also the most confusion. I hate that. I know what's happening and I already hate that.

One stat was collected from the phones. It was discovered that both girls had attempted to call the police several times. Oh, I hate that. Anytime that like a camera is found, it gives me the super heaps. I get so excited when a camera is found. No, I know. Like, no, me too. It happens on my couch.

Because you're like literally like what is happening. But it's so creepy to look at the last hours of somebody's life. Oh yeah, because like through their eyeballs. Like we'll post a few pictures that are off this camera to the Instagram. And it really is like you see them like being very carefree on the hike for a lot of it. And you're just like, oh God, you don't yell so badly. And you look at it and it's not like you don't know

what's about to happen. It's like no one knows what happened. Right. Like not even no one. Oh stop, I have goosebumps all the way. So the local emergency number was 1-1-2. And they were calling that. And they were also calling 9-1-1, which Panama also uses.

OK. At 4.39 p.m., which was only a couple hours and they were calling that and they were also calling 9-1-1, which Panama also uses. Okay. At 4.39 pm, which was only a couple hours after they had set out on the hike, Chris' phone made the first call to Belize, which was only a few hours after they had gone on the hike. Yeah. Lee San made the second call at 4.51 pm, so only a few minutes later. Right. Unfortunately, there was pretty much no reception whatsoever. On April 3rd, which is when the searching had begun officially,

another call was made to police and lasted one second before the signal cut out. Oh, no. So while people were searching for them, they were calling the police. Oh, my God. I hate that. On April 5th, Lee Sands battery died. So her phone was done. Chris's phone was switched on several times to search for signal, but no more calls were made.

On April 6th, this is a weird thing. On April 6th, several incorrect pin codes were entered into Chris' phone. By. Yeah. After all these attempts, the phone never had the correct pin code entered ever again. Nope. Literally the camera. So that's when someone started trying to get into the phone and couldn't put in the right pin. Why would you like Wari even trying to get into the phone? I don't know. Now there is, that sounds creepy as hell and it sure does.

Could be creepy, does it. But my theory about it is that possibly Chris was incapacitated or dead. And the other person was trying to get into it. And Lee San was trying to get under phone to call for help because her battery had died. And maybe she didn't know her pen. Okay. Always know your friend's pen. I know.

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, like, damn, I gotta know everybody's pen. So yeah, so it might have been that or somebody else could be trying to get in the phone. Right. Over three days between April 7th and April 10th, 77 emergency call attempts were made from Chris' iPhone. Wow.

On April 11th, the iPhone was switched on at 10.51 am and just over an hour later it turned off for good. Because it died. I don't know, it just turned off. Oh. So the phones had very spooky and very confusing evidence, but the camera was spooky on a whole other one. I know. Lee Sands Canon camera showed that the pair had wandered into the trail by the continental divide and possibly

became lost. April 8th was when things obviously turned for the worse. No, thank you. This was one week after they were officially declared missing. And at this time, 90 flash photographs were taken on the camera between 1 a.m. and 4 a.m. Now that's bananas. This would average out to be one photograph taken every two minutes. Wow.

A lot of photos were completely dark. And some people think that this was because there was a search party wandering around there that very night looking for them and they were trying to signal them Another theory is that they were trying to light their way with the flash right because it was I mean it looks absolutely pitch black And a third theory is that there were wild animals that they were trying to scare off with the flash. Okay, yeah, all of those things make sense. All of those things make sense. Or something like trying to. All of these are scary.

Can you imagine having to fucking try to ward off a jaguar? Well, you're lost and possibly hurt. No, my God. And it was raining. Oh my God. Yeah. A couple of the photos, however, show them near a river and like a ravine. A few other photos were odd and confusing.

They show a small twig with like wrappers and like a plastic bag stuck to it. On top of a rock. And another photo showed toilet paper and a mirror on another rock. Hate that! Then the photos got scary. One photo showed Chris with blood on her temple. Hate it. And so it was obvious.

Now people like that's either a photo of her temple. Hey, and so it was obvious. Now people like that's either a photo of her, you know, she obviously got hurt, but people are like, is she dead in that photo? Or you can't tell. Like you don't know. Because I think you only see like this, you don't even see her face.

I think you can just tell it's her because of her hair. Okay. So that's weird. A theory about the photos is that there was a method to this madness though, because there was like a sequence theory about the photos is that there was a method to this manness though, because there was like a sequence in all the photos that they would take like a close-up, then a bunch, you know, up, and then a bunch to the side, and then just start the sequence over. So some experts think this, there may have been like a message or some reason they did

that. Like, because it's like a pattern. Sure. Nobody's been able to figure it out though. There is one photo that is thought to be a body down in the gorge. Oh. The theory is that Lisa Ann was taking a photo of Chris. Oh my God. Possibly.

Or somebody was. That's so horrible. And I've seen the photo and it's like hard to tell. Uh-huh. Because it's so dark, but you can see something that it's like body-like down there. And it's very hard to tell. Uh-huh. Because it's so dark but you can see something that is like body-like down there. But it's very hard to tell. Don't want to look at it. It's very hard to tell. Well even if you saw it, I don't even know if you would see a body. I'm so creeped out right now. No, during the course of the investigation, they did discover too that there was one missing photo in the series of photos taken.

Like the only one. It's among the photos taken during the day, on the first day. The numbers of the photos go from 0507, 0508, and then 0510. So they deleted one of them? Well number 510 was taken a week later on April 8th at 1.30 in the morning. So that missing one, we have no, it happened in the interim between those daytime photos the first day and April 8th at 130 in the morning. That's like a week later. And the thing about this is obviously it's deleted.

Yeah. One, they wouldn't delete a photo. There's plenty of, there's 90 photos. Ridiculous photos on there, that mean nothing and they didn't delete any of them and two, they would not be sitting there worrying about deleting photos. And then also, even if they did delete a photo, they could like, you know, investigators and experts can get that photo back off that memory card. So they tried to, it was nowhere on that memory card. What does that mean? I have no idea. But people are like that it had to have been deleted from

like remotely or something from a computer maybe. What? Or something else they were like it doesn't make sense that they can't bring that photo back off that memory card. That's really weird. And it's very convenient that it's not like one of the random photos during the day or one of the random photos during the night. It's in the interim between the two. The day and the night. Well, we don't know what the fuck happened. I'm scared. It's just weird. So another search was immediately conducted after they got that backpack. Yeah. And it was along they searched where the backpack was found. When they got there, neatly folded on a rock with the zipper still up was Chris's shorts. Okay. Folded neatly on a

rock. Okay. Now it washed up on the side of the shore. Right. Folded on a rock with the zipper up. Yeah. They were found by two other Nagobi women and two months after this close to where the backpack was found, a boot was discovered. I know. With a fucking foot inside of it. I knew what that. The foot had a sock on it and the bones were discovered to be fractured. Oh. I believe this was Lee Sands foot.

Oh my goodness. Near this gruesome discovery, a pelvic bone was also found behind a tree. Dutch authorities were able to confirm that these remains belonged to both Chris and Lee Sands. The pelvic bone was Chris's. Along the river, more than 33 bones were then found. 28 of them were from Lee Sands' foot.

Oh my God. Lee Sands' bones still had skin attached. But the pelvic bone that was determined to belong to Chris had been bleached. Okay, that's fucking weird. Yeah. Now these were found by indigenous people. Right. One Panama search team was called to search, but the weather became too gnarly and it was called off after like three days. So they left it to the indigenous tribes to kind of go about finding things. The special prosecutor made it legal for this to happen so they could take part in the search.

These bones were found in a place that was really isolated and was a full day's trip away from where they began their hike. And why would the pelvic bone be bleached? Well, it's bizarre. The whole thing is bizarre the whole thing is bizarre, because one way the fuck are the rest of the bones. Right.

Why we just have foot bones in a pelvic bone, that's weird. And 33 were found, but like, why were Chris's bones bleached? And why were there some skin attached to the leesands? Like, why in the elements for that long would there be that skin attached? Right. So this can't be explained. Now the bones being bleached cannot be explained away by the sun or the elements. I was going to ask that and then I didn't know if it was a stupid question.

Well, because other bones were found older than hers and were not bleached, were they in the same amount of sunlight? Yeah, okay. And neither were Lee Sands, who were in the same area as her? Yeah, okay. And neither were Lee Sands, who were in the same areas. I'm just scared of me. Like Lee Sands' bones were in the same areas, Chris's. And obviously we're near each other, and hers were not bleached at all. And no animal scavenging marks were found on the bones either. Which makes no fucking sense whatsoever.

And it was determined that the bleaching occurred probably by a phosphorus lime concoction. This led some experts to think this may have been connected to like, you know, possibly like a cartel or something scary because they're known to you, you know, usually really advanced criminals are known to use lime to haste and decomp. My heart is beating really fast. So police pretty quickly came to the theory that they had become lost from the trail. One of them, likely crisp, based on the photo, got injured. Eventually the other one either became injured or just couldn't survive.

And they both had no flu. And one of them, or both of them slowly, just died of dehydration, starvation, exposure, or whatever injury they received. They refused to release the autopsies, which were obviously limited anyways. The families were pissed that they immediately treated this as an accident and not a criminal investigation. Yeah, because they were like, no.

They were pissed that the guide was never investigated because he was the first person to see them in the search. He was with them, with the indigenous people, and they found the bones. And he participated in all the searches. This guy that was supposed to be their guide. That's weird. Did he have any contact with them previously? Yeah, because they set up the hike with him. Right.

He was someone who actually found some of the belongings as well. So the family's hired a local lawyer to help. And what they found was that this guide had some serious allegations of harassment against him, and that he had been known to hang out with local female tourists that were using the guide service against protocol, like outside of being a guide. Oh, I didn't know that. Super unprofessional, dude. The lawyer really focused on this

and the remains being bleached, but the forensics was ignored by the other side. That's rude. Now, that, and that was been, that would have been it, but I found a crazy article, it's actually like a series of articles from the Daily Beast who did like an intense investigation into this. They even went to Panama. I did the whole search. And so they they saw too that the official version of events according to Panama's public ministry, which is the office of the state's attorney, is that Chris Kramer's and Lee San

Fruin were quote, drag to death in the serpent river, and their bodies subsequently dismembered by scavengers. That's what their claiming happened. Okay. But none of their bones had any markings. Well, this whole thing has been publicly questioned by criminologists, journalists, and even Panamanian forensic teams, who did the autopsies.

They all questioned this. Yeah, that's weird. Even the forensics, like, the people who did the autopsies are like, No. And this is like very diet love, Passy. It really is. There was also no chain of custody that was established for any of the stuff they found. So nobody knows who's fucking hands it went into at any point.

Uh, that's fucked up. No fingerprints were ever recorded. And there were fingerprints on the backpack. And probably the phones. Yeah. And literally, like, just all the friends, except this was a very botched investigation. Also, there's like the whole thing, no one thought, like,

so you're saying that they were dragged in a river. So they would have gone in with all their belongings. Right. This backpack was found... Dry. Perfectly dry. And it's like how did her pants end up folded neatly? Right.

Like no one's questioning that. And this is even more bonkers. A copy of the Cherokee State Judicial Report, which is the original police report about the incident, was leaked. And the Daily Beast reported that based on an 18-month investigation by police detectives and prosecutors, they clearly concluded that the Kremmer's fru-n case was a homicide and a crime against personal integrity. Oh shit. The original police report for this case marks it as a homicide, not an accident.

How did you just change your mind about that? They can change the cause of death? No I know that but like from a homicide to like, oh well I can tell you exactly why. They want people coming to Panama for tourism. Oh shit. If they're sitting there being like, oh yeah people getting murdered in the woods, they're not going to, they're going to lose tourists. Wow, it's fucked.

And so this whole thing, the fact that it was marked as a homicide initially in the mill, no, it's an accident they just felt. It's like, ah, that's 100% a cover up. That's spooky. And they also said, the district attorney said that they could reopen this case at any time if evidence was presented, like, contradicting the accident theory.

Now, there's also a similar case to this in the way that makes people be like, huh, it's like draws comparisons and people like, maybe this isn't. So I'm going to give you a very brief overview of this case just so you can see. It involved a 23-year-old named Catherine Johanette. She was an American tourist, and she traveled to the same area of Panama as Christmas. One day, she decided to take a trail to Red Frog Beach. She didn't return to her hostel that night, and authorities were immediately called. After a short search, her body was found the following Sunday. Oh, gosh

The autopsy said that she had suffered blunt force trauma to the back of her head and had been strangled with her own beach rep Oh my god, then she was dragged to a few hundred meters from the trail and left in heavy brush Obviously that was at homicide. Yeah, they couldn't even and you're fucking are yeah And a lot of people point out that the three women even bear a certain physical resemblance. Oh shit. They're all tall, fair skinned and slender. Like they all kind of resemble each other. Oh, wow. And so people were thinking like, is there like a serial killer in the operating area? Yeah. And in the panamanium press, they've like asked this.

Like, that's actually been a thing. Now, including Lisanne and Chris, there have been at least 25 unself murders and disappearances in this part of Panama since 2009. Victims were, include visitors from the U.S., the UK, Italy, and the Netherlands, and locals. And the majority of the Netherlands, and locals. And the majority of them are women and children. And children? Yeah.

And people suggest that the number of disappeared could be way higher, because right, you found anybody. All of these incidents have happened in the neighboring Cherokee and Bocos sectors of the country, and it's basically between the Tala Manca, Cordellera, and the Caribbean coast. In most of these cases, no bodies have been found. So when no bodies found, there's not going to be a huge investigation because you don't have a body. So there's that. And people of course are going to call back to the fact that Lee Sam's backpack was found

with the phones and cameras in it, and not stolen to say, and they're going to look at that and say, well, it can't be foul play. All their electronics were left in their backpack. And if somebody was trying to get into her phone, why didn't they just take it with them? But when people talk to them, when, in fact, in this article I read the, in the daily beast,

they talk to forensic consultant Carl while he said, if it's not robbery as a motive, but wouldn't take it. But just somebody who wants to assault rape murder someone, it's really common for someone to just leave all the shit there. Yeah, that happens all the time. Yeah, it's like sure some, some of them take a trophy, but that's a certain type of killer. And it's like one who's to say they didn't they had other show with them. And I mean, yeah, I mean, it would make sense because it was this huge search, huge investigation happening, whoever did it, whoever possibly did it, probably didn't want to

have any of the shit on them. With them, right. So they just put it in the backpack and dumped it in the woods again, because that woman said, yeah, it wasn't there. It wasn't them. So they just put it in the backpack and dumped it in the woods. Again, because that woman said it wasn't there. So they could have had it and they just put it all back and put it back in it. Who knows if they hadn't deleted that photo. It's just really criminaling that the woman said it wasn't there. Yeah. And that one photo missing, maybe it was an incriminating photo and they got rid of it. Yeah. Before they left it in the woods again. Yeah. So, and again, the backpack was just nylon, like a nylon and expensive hiking backpack. Stayed perfect condition. And the same conditions that kept this backpack perfectly fine.

Bleached. Totally dry. And kept all the electronics in it perfectly safe, which makes no sense. Yeah. Weeks in a river, and you're telling me those electronics aren't waterlogged? No, yeah, let me know. And the same conditions, like legitimately reduced Lee San and Chris's entire bodies and skeletons to like rubble.

That doesn't make any sense. An nylon backpack with the held through that, and their bodies couldn't. Yeah, that doesn't make sense. And one last interesting thing is the indigenous Nagobi people actually still speak of this case. And they have a song that they sing that's called someone did evil to them on the trail. By no, I just got full body chills yes and they say that they still talk about the fact that there is a killer that tried to hide their bones in the forest I'm so fucking spooked and obviously these are like legends now and all that but they talk about it

and I don't like that so I don't have like a concrete theory on what I think happened. I mean, it's hard. There's not a lot to look at the accident theory and say, absolutely, that could happen. Yeah. But there's a lot of loose ends to that too. Yeah. And then I can look at the fact that they're, you know, the theory that there's someone else involved here. And yeah, it makes sense. But there's like a point more toward that. But there's also loose ends in that too. So it's like, because you can also explain away, like, you can say, again, that the pin being entered wrong

was Lee San just trying to call for help on her phone and didn't have her pin. You can sit there and say, you know, Chris got really hurt, which is obvious in one of the photos she got hurt in the head. And I mean, maybe she didn't last. Maybe she died within a day or something like that, and then Lee Sand had to go out on her own.

Right. She's not going to last that long by herself. She doesn't have any food. She barely has water. But also, why would they have made a 12-hour journey if they didn't have food or water? Well, that's... It is just so many weird things that you're just like... You think you can explain most of it, and then something like that comes and you're like

Doesn't make sense and then the bleached bones what the fuck is that? It's a related photos It doesn't make sense and it's like I don't know. It just doesn't make sense none of it makes sense I hate that you did this to me. So there's still no answers, but I Mean that leaked police report that says it's a homicide is really all I need to really hone in on the fact that this was not an accident but we'd love to hear what you guys think about it. I don't like that. And I'll be posting some photos for you guys to see so you can examine all the craziness and yeah

that is the mystery of the missing Panama girls. Thanks so much. I mean, don't hike. You don't have to tell me. It's obviously it's not there fault by any stretch of the imagination, but just don't do it. Just don't hike. It's not worth it.

We've covered like three hiking cases. We have. And it's not worth it. None of them have been worth it. So, I mean, that clad of forest sounds rad, but like super cruel, but like you can Google pictures. And while you're on the treadmill at a climbing pace, there you go. You're welcome.

Smart. Smart. You're like it. So, that was Lane as many more, Bid. And we're going to hopefully be recording another Patreon bonus episode very shortly. And I'll be letting you guys know what next week's full length morbid episode will be. YAYA! And other than that, I think in the meantime you can follow us on Instagram at morbidpodcast.

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Shit. patreon.com slash morbidpodcast. Oh duh! I forgot to beg you guys for money! Shit! Shit! Uh, patreon.com slash morbid podcast. In the meantime, we hope you keep listening, and we hope you keep it weird! But that's a weird that you traveled to Panama and decided to take a 12-hour journey into the indigenous forest and getting my jaguar except not because it was totally a homicide and I'm scared now by. Oh, I don't do it. Oh, I... Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download

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