Morbid - Episode 526: The Death of Joan Robinson Hill- Part 2

Episode Date: January 4, 2024

Part 2/2 - On March 19, 1969, thirty-eight-year-old Houston socialite Joan Robinson Hill died at Sharpstown General Hospital from what doctors at the time believed was flu-related symptoms. Hill’s body was quickly taken to the mortuary and embalmed before an autopsy could be performed, violating Texas law and undermining any attempts determine the cause of Joan’s death. Nevertheless, Joan’s father, a wealthy oil tycoon, believed his daughter’s death to be a homicide, used his influence to have her remains exhumed and had not one, but two additional autopsies performed to determine the cause of death. Despite conflicting reports from the pathologists regarding a cause of death, Joan’s father was eventually successful in convincing the district attorney that her death was no accident, but was in fact murder committed by her husband, John Hill. After two unsuccessful attempts to convince a grand jury of John’s guilt, the district attorney finally convinced a third grand jury that John Hill had intentionally contributed to Joan’s death and he was charged with “murder by omission,” a first in the history of the Texas courts.John Hill was put on trial for the murder of his wife in the winter of 1971, but the jury would never get a chance to weigh in on his guilt or innocence. In September of 1972, after one mistrial and several delays leading up to a re-trial, John Hill was murdered by an intruder who’d broken into his home. Although investigators believed Hill’s murder to have been a robbery gone wrong, many in Houston suspected Joan’s father, believing his son-in-law had evaded justice, had paid to have John Hill killed, leaving the deaths of Joan and John Hill an enduring mystery.As always, thank you to the fantastic David White, of Bring Me the Axe Podcast, for research assistance ReferencesAssociated Press. 1971. "Doctor 'hated' first wife." Corpus Christi Times, February 26: 1.—. 1972. "Houston doctor slain at home." Corpus Christi Times, September 25: 13.—. 1969. "Meningitis said fatal to socialite ." Corpus Christi Times, October 11: 13.—. 1971. "Judge calls mistrial in Houston slaying." Fort Worth Star-Telegram, February 27: 12.—. 1970. "Panel indicts doctor in death of wife." Fort Worth Star-Telegram, May 23: 3.—. 1973. "District judge clamps lid on Houston doctor's murder." Odessa American, April 27: 3.—. 1971. "Testimony continues in trial of physician." Odessa American, February 23: 2.Gonzalez, J.R. 2009. 40 years later: Joan Robinson Hill. March 19. Accessed November 7, 2023. https://blog.chron.com/bayoucityhistory/2009/03/40-years-later-joan-robinson-hill/.New York Times. 1977. "Oilman is cleared in Houston murder of his son-in-law." New YorkTimes, October 22: 1.Thompson, Thomas. 1976. Blood and Money: A True Story of Murder, Passion, and Power. New York, NY: Doubleday.United Press International. 1980. "Heiress may have been toxic shock victim." United Press International, November 23.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You're listening to a Movid Network podcast. Hey, Weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Ash and this is Movid. It is! And your hair looks really good over there. Your hair looks really good over there. Your hair looks really good over there. Your hair looks really good. You get the swoop without trying, and that upsets me. Because I try really hard for the swoop.

Your swoop is a good swoop. Thank you, but it's not effortless. It's full of effort. It's full of effort. You're like, I will go blog this. No, I actually did my hair this morning. No, you can tell that you did it. I brushed it.

But like, but still, even when you don't do your hair, the swoop is super, super ding. So super ding. So super ding. Oh, it's super ding. Yeah. I just had a glazed stick, so I am feeling like, why is that so funny?

It's always funny. I don't know why. It's because it's terrible? It's always funny. I don't know why. It's because it's so incredible. Which is why I said glazed stick. You have to be very purposeful. You can run those two together. But it don't concern everyone. Don't spain me.

But it's a huge donut, essentially, which the look doesn't even make it any better. No, it looks terrible. They should name it something else. Anyways, but it's a big donut full of sugar and big donut stick that is glazed. You know, so I feel sugar full. I feel sugar full. I feel like sugar ray. And you know what? Speaking of sugar Ray, funny little story before we start. Let's go. Let's go.

Got me a cameo of Mark McGrath. Sugar Ray. Sugar Ray. Who he just calls Sugar Ray. Like, that's what I'm saying. Just thing, just thing, just Sugar Ray. Remember when he saw the guy at the airport, he was like, that's Sugar Ray. John said, that's Sugar Ray.

Oh my God, I thought I didn't know he was still alive. He's like, he's like, not an old guy. He's like, he's like, you're age. Yeah, I know. I think he's older than me. Sorry. Oh, my God. But he had, he told him that I was his biggest fan.

You are. Look, obviously. And he sang me fly. And he put my name in the song. I can confirm. It was a good. Yeah. Good. It was a good. Camille, I wanted to say TikTok. It was, it was very fun. When will this episode come out? Can you tell them what you got John without

spoiling it or no? Okay, I got John. So John's first 90s R&B moment. I think I've more than once said that. John is 90s R&B moment. I play I've more than once said that. John is a 90s R&B moment. John is a 90s R&B moment. I play a genuine at my wedding simply for John. Yeah. Like he's a 90s R&B is his, that's everything to him. Yeah. And, hey, I'm not kidding you multiple times a day. John sings, this is how we do it by Montel Jordan.

And that was one of his first concerts. And he puts it into like different, like he'll sing to the tune of it even. Like, if one of his first concerts. And he puts it into like different hills and to the tune of it even. Like, if one of our girls does something, he's like, don't put the glass there. Like he literally put the glass there. Timminininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininininin part of our daily lives. So I got him a cameo from Montel Jordan. And let me tell you Montel Jordan. First of all, he looks phenomenal.

That is a handsome man. That man is a, excuse me, I was gonna say the snack, a snack. That man is the whole day in the middle. And he was so sweet in the cameo. And I asked him, I was like, you don't have to, but it would be sick. If you could just sing a quick line. Like, I love that. This is how we do it. But I totally understand if that is like, you don't have to, but it would be sick if you could just sing a quick line. I love that. Of this is how we do it, but I totally understand if that is like not

something you want to do. He did. And his voice. Effortless. Phenomenal. And John's just gonna die. And I'm so excited for it. It's like one of those fun gifts

that you're just like, I can't wait to show you this. I know you need to send it to his phone, like give him the link so that you can video the reaction because I want to see it if I'm not here. Oh, yeah, we love it We love cameos and this house. We love to send each other either genuine cameos that are like wonderful or hilarious ones Yeah, I mean you can't even say what the hilarious one I'm not going to but just like ones that you're like they're like why would you say that? So cameos a fun gift.

I will. Never forget when you got me a cameo from Lindsay Lohan. My life was complete in that moment. And she told you that I was still not sexy. I was still not sexy. When she said, You wouldn't look like a British man if you shot your hair off. Yeah.

And I was like, thanks, Lens. She said so many great things. It's true. I love that. And you got me one from Gigi Good, who's like my favorite drug. That was, things lens. Yeah, she said so many great things. It's true. I love that. And you got me one from Gigi Good, who's like my favorite drug queen. That was a good one. Yeah. So that's cameos. We're not sponsored by cameos and Dukin Donuts. But you know, it's a fun little gift if you can find some

that are that are interesting. Yeah. There's one in your life. I feel like there's this is not an ad for cameos. No, it's really not. I don't know why we're doing this. But I don't know how we got here. You're not really excited about Montel Jordan. It's like surreal.

No, the cameo that was out. Honestly, one of the best ones that I've seen. Truly was. Yeah. Didn't hurt that he is a good-looking, fine man. Anyway, it's fine man. Anyway.

So moving on from that, there's no good way to segue. True, I'm glad you said it, because I was trying to figure out how to segue in my head, and I couldn't, but let's recap. I do have a confession, and it's that I lied to you. I'm sorry. I said that part two was gonna be longer than part one. Incorrect.

Incorrect. I swapped. I looked at the pages that I had written before we recorded, and I was like, oh, one is longer than the other. And I thought it was part two, but it was part one. They're different by like a page length. So yeah, you're not going to be like hurting by the end of the episode. Just in case you were counting by the minute and you were like bitch, you, uh, yeah. And she knows I would never lie to you. Like intentionally, intentionally, definitely unintentionally.

But let's recap a little bit. So in part one, we got to know Joan Robinson Hill. We got to know her dad Ash and her mom. And she got married a couple times. And you really thought I was going to work out well in the end. And unfortunately, it did not because whether or not John Hill has anything to do with her death, I don't know. Personally, I think the waters are too murky to say for sure. Yeah, but whether or not he did kill her,

he is a turd monster for the way that he treated her. I was gonna say that's the thing. Like whether or not he was involved in her death, what you get, we're not saying he was because I have no fucking clue. I think it's in part two, it's really, I don't think it's gonna be clear now. It gets even murky. Yeah, so and it's like, I don't think you're, it's going to be clear now. It gets even more clear.

Yeah. So, and it's like regardless of that, he was a shitty husband. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And honestly, it sounds like he wasn't a very present father as well. No, at least not for like the first part of Boots Life. I think Boot. I think he got to be, from the sounds of it, I think he got to be a little more involved

like after Joan passed away. Well, I hope it was good for Boot. And I think it was. So I hope that it was because little Boot deserves that. Little Boot, you do deserve that. Little Boot, baby, you deserve it. But yeah, but as we know, Joan's father Ash was like a very big presence in her life. And when she did pass away, he fullheartedly believed that John had something to do with it. And she, it was essentially like his life's mission to figure it out. Now when I left off in part one, we had just gone through basically ash trying to get anywhere with the district attorney, a team of doctors to prove this.

And when we finally did finish part one, he had, he was going to go before a grand jury. Okay. Like he was being added. So let's pick up with the grand jury. In July 1969, one doctor after another filed into the Harris County Court to testify in the grand jury case presented by McMaster, the district assistant district attorney. Since the case rested, mostly on the conflicting autopsy reports and the cause of death just about every medical professional with even a casual connection to the case was called to testify. Wow. But unfortunately at no time did any of them present any evidence suggesting that Jones death had been intentionally caused by John or anyone for that matter.

And it's like that's like unfortunately and fortunately because at the same time you're like, I hope she wasn't murdered. You know, like it's like, but also like if she was, I want her to get justice. So I feel weird. Like it's a strange feeling. I would like evidence

because I want her to get justice if that's the case. But I also am like, I hope you didn't get murdered. Yeah. But also that's an awful way to die regardless. Right. So it's like, well, and I would like to have this. What happens?

Because even if John is like an asshole in a marriage, he doesn't deserve to be painted a murderer. If he wasn't, that's the thing. And like, it stinks that it never really got reserved, you know? But also there was like some neglect there, because it's like he's a doctor. Yeah. Why was he allowing this to get as bad as it got?

That's a problem. There's no allowing this to get as bad as it got? That's a problem. There's no question in my mind that there was neglect. I mean, the way that the maid walked in and found that's sick. She should never have been allowed to convalesce like that. No, especially with a doctor. With a doctor.

But what these medical professionals did do was question and just like we were saying, many of the decisions that John made and the days leading up to John's death from the medication he gave her to his refusal to let anyone to see her and then to like not wanting to take her to a hospital that was even close by. Yeah.

But despite the compelling hearsay evidence, most people couldn't help but speculate that rather than being motivated by evidence of wrongdoing, it was Ash Robinson who was really behind the persecution of John Hill. Yes. Because small town people talk. Of course. After the grand jury had heard, excuse me, all the testimony regarding John's negligence leading up to his wife's death, even assistant DA McMaster was skeptical that their case would go anywhere. As they waited for the jury to return a decision, he told Ash,

I haven't got enough to convict this boy of running a red light. I don't have anything here. The problem it seemed was that the case was built mostly on complicated conflicting hearsay evidence from medical professionals, and there was really no physical evidence whatsoever of criminal behavior. Yeah. So frustrated by Robinson's continued pressure, McMaster told Ash, if he wanted to get a conviction, he would need to present the authorities with evidence of a crime. Yeah. Hard evidence.

He needs something. And it turned out that he was right. Without the physical evidence, the grand jury did not return a verdict finding John responsible for the death. Wow. But never wanted to back down from a challenge, Ash consulted with McMaster and Frank Briscoe, and together, the men came up with a plan

to present the jury with evidence of murder by Nick Lecht. So they were going a different route. Okay. Because that seems a little more likely to possibly get. Yes, like some kind of conviction on. Yeah. Their point was regardless of how she'd become sick, it was John's negligence and inattention of John's serious condition that ended up leading to her death.

A result that he would have expected given his medical training. Yeah. I mean, all the signs were there that she was not doing well. Yeah. So knowing that John had already refused Ash's attempts to have John's body exhumed, he and Briscoe managed to get the matter before a grand jury in mid-August. And in mid-August, the court ordered that the body be exhumed.

Any third autopsy be preferred. Which at this point, it's like she can't even rest. Yeah. Peacefully. Exactly. And when I was first reading this, I was like, I don't know what a third autopsy is going to produce when the, like, she's already, she had already been embalmed. We were never going to get really anything concrete from an autopsy at that point.

That's the thing. And it's like the degradation of her tissues and any viable evidence here now is like you're so much higher. And again, it's like it's going to just murky the waters even further. And it's interesting what happens here. So while the court may have ordered the examination, it remained that both the ex-examation and the third autopsy would be overseen by Dr. Yehimchik, meaning that he was essentially being asked to reconsider

or undermine his own earlier assessment of Jones' cause of death, which is pretty unlikely that he was going to undermine his professionalism. He's not going to be like, wow, I fucked up. Right. So knowing that none of the physicians who were assigned to the autopsy would be on his side, Ash actually conducted some research of his own to find out who were among the most well-respected doctors in the nation.

Like the nation. Let's go. The list is not given up. No. No. The list was short, but it included Dr. Milton Halpern, the chief medical examiner of New York at the time, whose credentials and reputation were beyond reproach. So Ashway's did no time contacting Halpern and bringing the man to Houston, where he was deputized as an acting Harris County medical examiner.

So that way he could join the team of doctors performing this autopsy. I know that he really, really overbearing, but like the way that he just loved his daughter. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. Like, if he has the money to do this, so it's like if he has the money to do this, then it's like, I would do the same thing. That's the thing. You know, if I was an oil tycoon and could do all this after something happened, I would go to the ends of the earth.

And it's like the dedication and the love for his daughter and wanting to see Justice served. It's so heartwarming. But then at the same time, it's so heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking. Because you're just like, are you ever going to get the answers that you wanted? And he feels so sure that he knows what happened

and to think, to be so sure in like your own mind and heart that your son and mom murdered your daughter. Yeah. And that you're trying to find the evidence of that. And you're coming up at like, what I can't imagine that journey. And then just to come up at like hard stop after hard stop of like it's not panning out.

And feeling like she's never gonna get the justice, that must have been so hard. Yeah, and just the way he loved her, like I've never heard of a dad loving his daughter. Like, he really, this hard, he really won. He did. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Around New Year's, we get obsessed with how to change ourselves, instead of just expanding

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that I worked on. I subscribed to it forever ago, and honestly, I completely forgot about it, because it was one of those annual charges that I stopped using after I was done with a couple cases that I used it for. I tried to cancel it and the only way to do it was by calling their customer service number. And of course, they're only available from 10 to 5 and also who calls people anymore. I hate doing that. So what did I do? Nothing. Rocket money on the other hand was able to take care of it for me easily. Rocket money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills.

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Stop wasting money on things that you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash morbid. That's rocketmoney.com slash morbid. Rocketmoney.com slash morbid. So on August 11th, 1969, Joan Robinson Hill was exhumed, and brought to the medical examiner's office. Now, almost immediately, something struck Dr. Yim Chick as odd. The medical examiner had performed the autopsy in the middle of the embalming process, like we know.

And Joan was buried immediately after. But when he opened the casket to remove the body now, he discovered dried mud on the inside of her coffin, indicating that this was not the first time the coffin had been open since it went into the ground. What the fuck? When questioned about the mud, the mortician noted that it had been a rainy day when Joan was buried, and he suggested that the mud maybe got inside when they reopened the coffin at John's request so that he could get Joan's wedding ring. And he said maybe that's when the mud ended up there.

Okay. The explanation seemed plausible, but it did little to clear John of suspicion. Because it's like, you wanted to reopen the casket to get her. I understand like wanting her wedding ring as like a sentimental piece of value, I suppose. But it's like, you also didn't, like you were having an elicit affair. Yeah. And like didn't really care about her feelings about the whole thing.

That's the thing. Which I'm not saying, like he doesn't have a right to grieve and, you know, there's complicated feelings everywhere here, like I get that. Right. But it's like, the details. The old helmet again to take the wedding ring feels like it's like, and to give out like, and again, the details of everything else,

like start to dance. And right now, it's just, when you just make some work weird. And you put it up against that, it's weird. Yeah, you know, I'm not saying I make some a murder, I'm just saying it's not at all. It's a strange behavior. Yeah, strange.

And I think it's just within all of this, you know? That's the thing, like it can be understood. Yeah. Like we're both saying, I get it. Right. But it's like put together with everything else, you're just kind of like, it makes you just scratch your head a little.

Until if you're eyebrow a little bit. Now, it turned out that the mud on the inside of the coffin was only the first of many bewildering aspects of this case. Really? Because when Jones remains were removed and prepped for the autopsy, the team was shocked. And I think you'll have

a bigger opinion of this than even I did, but it was shocking to me. And the team was shocked to discover that not only was the brain missing, but so was the heart. What the fuck? Her brain and her heart were missing. So the team contacted the original medical examiner, Dr. Arthur Morse, excuse me, who explained he had removed both during the first autopsy and taken them back to his lab for examination, saying, I knew this was a case where I couldn't go back in, so to speak.

I mean, I don't know how it works here or in this time period. Yeah. It's like the 60s. You should have to have permission to keep body parts. That's for research. There's a lot of red tape and a lot of signatures that need to be signatures for you to keep a brain in a heart. Right? That's what I was thinking. Like at least what when I was working in autopsies, if you were going to keep a body part of brain specifically or any other, like a specific reason. There were specific forms that needed to be signed

by family members, by everybody involved, by the doctors, by everybody. And there's like a chain of custody with that organ, you just know where it is, why it's happening. I mean, a lot of people have to agree to somebody keeping an organ. Because usually when you're studying one, you take a piece, you take your sample,

but you put it back. And I feel like- Unless otherwise asked for. Right, and that makes perfect sense to me that there would be a chain of custody and it would be like a rather intense process. And to me, the fact, and we don't know what the process was,

like I couldn't figure out what the process was on the six days. Because this is a different state, it's a different time period, so I don't know what those, you would think that some protocol process was in the 16th. Because this is a different state, it's a different time period. So I don't know who knows. You would think that some protocol would be in place. Yeah. And because everybody thought this was so odd,

that kind of tells me that they're the most in protocol that maybe wasn't followed. And the fact that this doctor, this original doctor Arthur Morse, felt like he needed to kind of potentially defy that because he couldn't go back in. I'm like, you thought that this case was going to come back up again. That's the thing. I'm like, so were you not happy?

Because the original examination you were able to do. And I don't think he was because of the involving process having already started. And I wonder, I'm like, did you think that maybe, I mean, again, small town, I'm sure people are talking, did you think to yourself, I need to be prepared if shit goes down and people want answers about the state of this body? Because that's risky on his part

and for him to take a risk like that. Exactly. Sounds like he knew he was gonna have to speak for something. That's what it sounds like to me to something. You know what I mean? And that's just very strange. Yeah. That's strange to go against what you would assume is a pretty like a rigorous protocol. Right.

Right. That because I know I can't imagine there's anywhere in the country that is like super willy nilly about just like, I can just keep a brain. Like, it's, no. You have to put that back. Strange. Unless otherwise noted, obviously, because there's plenty of times

where you request to keep an organ because you know you want to do studies on it for a long period of time. Right. But again, there's gotta be so much permission involved. And to me, the fact that if there was a paper trail that would have had to have been followed and he wanted to avoid that, I like, why did you want to avoid that? Because you were worried about John Hill being a doctor.

Well, and I'm also wondering about the reasons for the brain and heart specifically. Because usually when you do keep a brain, it's because there was something pointing to the brain being like a part of whatever was happening here, or like, you know, the heart, the same thing. And it's like, so why did you, I know those are two like the powerhouses of your body, obviously, but it's like, did you just do that because you were like, these are the two main parts? Because it's like also like, her kidneys were involved in a lot of this, I'm sure.

I mean, her kidneys were the main reason why she died. So it's like, you can keep those. So it's like, what did you think happened? Yeah. That you had to keep those organs instead. That's the thing. And remember, if you do remember from part one, he also took like multiple tissue samples and fluid samples.

Yeah. I think he was preparing for the potential of a court case. Yes, he was probably like they whisked her body away so quickly, shirking protocol from the get go, right, and started embalming it at lightning speed. Yeah. So no one could touch it. He, I'm sure that was his first red flag because it was for all of us. Right. And this man is a medical examiner. He's probably like, excuse me, this is not how this works. So maybe you're right. Maybe that's, he was like, you know what?

Something's off about this right off the bat to me because I would be, I would read fliers just like this of that. Popping out everywhere. So maybe he was like, I'm gonna take the two most important parts because they're gonna be affected by whatever could have happened here.

Yeah. I'm going to take these two because I need to, like, keep this to... That's what I have it for, because I don't know what's happening here or why she was taken so quickly without an autopsy. That's exactly what I think. So maybe that is, like, he just was, like, which, like, good for him for, like, it's tough because you need to have permission to do these things and like you know it gets hairy like ethically and all that. Of course. I'm glad he at least thought

he was like looking and being like something's a little off here. Right. You know. Right. Exactly. Wow. So, wow. And that's what my gut just says that he knew something was off and he wanted to be prepared. Yeah. That's what it seems like. So it took nearly two months, but in October of 1969, the first two, excuse me, the first of two autopsy reports were submitted by a team of three pathologists working on the case. And I say the first of two autopsy reports from this third autopsy. Oh, no, that's a little confusing. The first report authored by Dr. Robert Buckland stated that Jones' cause of death was,

and I quote, a result of bacterial meningitis with septicemia blood poisoning. Damn. Dr. Yehim chick on the other hand released his own separate report stating that Jones' cause of death was, and I quote, the result of a full, full-minating, infectious process, the specific nature of which is no longer determinable. Okay. So he's backtracked. I was going to say he seems like he's a... Because he was... Remember once, little.

Very steadfast that it was hepatitis. And now he's like, now we can't be sure. I can't determine. And he added, quote, is my further opinion that the exact cause and manner of death cannot be established from the exhumed body autopsy alone. Okay. Now given all the inconsistencies, he actually, Dr. Yimchik recommended

that a grand jury investigation be undertaken. Because he's like, I mean, at least he's good for him for at least not sticking with his original one just to stick to it. Yeah, I looked at the evidence again and he said, you know what, right now I can't say that that's what it is. I thought that was pretty honorable. Yeah, that seems pretty good to me. And while the court and Asha's group of investigators waited for Helperns report, John Hild did his best to carry on like everything was normal despite the fact that his life pretty much seemed to be

collapsing all around him. At this point, I'm sure you can imagine his business had taken a serious hit, he's a plastic surgeon, due to all the rumors and accusations leveled by his former father-in-law and circulated then by the Houston gossip circuit. Yeah, I mean, if people think you're a murderer, I'm not having to go under anesthesia with you with a knife. And less than a year in, his marriage to Anne felt like a big mistake. I don't want to say I told you so. Wasn't so exciting. Yeah. That you't want to say I told you so.

Wasn't so exciting. Yeah. Now that you're not cheating on your wife, yeah, that one I'm not sad about. Yeah, he felt like she was never satisfied with anything he did or said, and he was already thinking about a divorce. Years later, his mother would recall him saying,

if I didn't marry her, she threatened to call ID McMaster and say, I killed June. And if I divorced her, she said she'd commit suicide and leave a note saying I was responsible for her death. And get it together. I know. If that is the case of what she said.

And either way, it's like, you guys are a wreck. Get it together regardless. Yeah, get it together regardless. Yeah, get it together. Like, my goodness. That's the thing. Now, Dr. Helper and took several months longer to complete his report than the other pathologists, which I respect. He was like, no, I'm getting this right. Yeah. And when he did finally submit it in April of 1970 now, the report did not contain

anything particularly damning. In fact, rather than fully implicate John and his wife's death, Helpern's report actually cleared Hill of many rumors by noting the cause of death wall indeterminate was unlikely to have been intentionally caused. I wonder how he was able to say those two statements though. Yeah, I don't know what the cause of death was exactly, but I know that somebody didn't do it. And it's like, right. Explain to me how you can, how do you reconcile those two statements? Because I need you to have a cause of death to know

that no one did it. I'm gonna need you to determine the cause of death before you tell me that no one could have caused it. Yes, that's the thing. Like those seem very conflicting to me. I'm like, yeah, that doesn't, that doesn't jive for me. I think the reason that he said that he didn't believe that it was intentional.

Intentional, thank you. Was because he found no evidence of any injections having been administered. That was a big part of it. Well, that's not the only way you can go somewhere. But it's like, have you ever heard of like an oral? Like, you could have given her any kind of medication orally or, you know,

and there's plenty of places where you might not find one on your nail. Yeah. Very true, you know. That's the thing. But in simple terms, Halprens report confirmed what Dr. Yohimchik had already indicated.

As a result of miscommunication and improper medical practices immediately following Joan's death, it was very unlikely that her specific cause of death would ever be known, which is really incredibly unfortunate. Yeah, so frustrating. Now while it may have dismissed the theory

that Joan had directly caused his wife's death, Helper and his report made it clear that, as both a husband and a doctor, John's behavior in the days leading up to his wife's death was without a doubt negligent. Of course. And earlier treatment, he said absolutely could have prevented John's death.

And that's horrifying. And that's the question I hand here at this point. Not did he do it, but did he ignore symptoms that resulted in her death? Yeah. So by May 1972, grand juries had heard the District Attorney's argument and declined to return an indictment against John Hill. With the latest results from the autopsy in hand, McMaster returned to the grand jury for a third time and presented his case

again, this time with the opinion of one of the nation's most well-regarded medical examiners. For the most part, the case was represented the same as it had been the other two times that they'd been before the grand jury, but this time, jury members actually wanted to know the extent to which John's behavior had hastened John's death. And according to Halpern, he said failure to provide medical attention at home and reluctant delay in hospitalization for diagnosis and effective therapy aggravated a situation which proved fatal.

Yeah. So he's saying he didn't take her to a hospital, he didn't give her, like in time, he didn't give her proper medical attention at home, which is wild considering he's a doctor. And so the fact that it was too little too late is his fault, is what the helper is saying, and what they're trying to prove. And after a brief deliberation, the jury returned a decision against John Hill

with 10 of 12 jurors in favor of an indictment for murder, bio-mission. Oh, yes. Damn. So unlike manslaughter, which implies a person's negligence of an indictment for murder-boat bi omission. Oh, yes. Damn. So, unlike manslaughter, which implies that person's negligence unintentionally led to the death of another,

murder-boat mission implied that John had willfully, intentionally, and culpably. Culpably. I feel like I always say that wrong, and then I say it again, and I'm like, no, that was right. Yeah, you said it again. Contributed to John's death.

Damn. At that point, the charge had actually only been used in less than 20 court cases. I was gonna say, I've never heard that use. Never had it been used in Texas up to this point. Damn. Crazy. Only 20 cases. 20, I got like chill, that's crazy.

It's a lot. So the indictment immediately split the physicians on the autopsy team with half flatly rejecting Helper's conclusions and criticizing the jury for their decision. Dr. Paul, I think it's rate-al-it, told the press, if criminal charges in this type of situation be appropriate, then anyone who's made expires

unexpectedly after a few days of symptoms, whether from pneumonia, heart attack, or septic shock, could also be indicted. And here's the thing, I get where they're coming from that it could seem like a slippery slope. It's here. Or like, okay, so if I don't know it's that bad and I don't take them in time and they die,

that's my fault. Like, you know, like if I can't see the symptoms, you know what I mean? Yeah. But then you're like, I think what it's saying here is that one, he's a doctor, which you are trained from years and years of schooling and experience to recognize symptoms that somebody is very, very ill.

And also her symptoms were not invisible symptoms like something that you would be like. I didn't know she was the sick and we brought her and it's too late. Right. She was vomiting so much that she couldn't even get herself into the bathroom. Right. And was like the maid found her covered in vomit and feces on the floor. Like it never should have gotten to that point. She was violently.

And also violently. And also violently. She was wildly dehydrated. She was. And I know that a doctor can spot dehydration from fucking counties away. Like there is a doctor can look at you and go dehydrated. Like, I mean, I can look and see if somebody's dehydrated. Like, yeah, there's certain symptoms you just know,

and it's like, you know she was. Absolutely. And that alone can kill you. Mm-hmm. So if you see that she's going down that path, of like, even just dehydration from being sick, even at stomach bug, you can get too dehydrated, need to go to the hospital, get an IV.

Right. So even if she was going down that path where it was just like, wow, you're dehydrating here, you should have got her to a hospital. Absolutely. So she could get IVs so that could stop. It's like, that's what I can understand that the doctor here is saying,

it's a slippery slope. It could be a slippery slope if we allow this to be this case if this is not the way it is But it's like this one is different. This is case specific and that's why this has only been used 20 other times Because this is very case specific and this case alone It's hard for him to reconcile and explain Why he didn't get her to a hospital sooner. Exactly. I don't get it. It was multiple days. Like I just get three days of symptoms like that.

And it's like after the first day of violent symptoms, if she's not better, to the doctor, she goes. That's the thing. Like that's the, why not? Right. What's the worst that can happen? They're like, she's okay, just go home. And you put that hand in hand with not letting anybody

in the house to see her. That's the other. Giving her what somebody said, and obviously will never know, was a tranquilizer, right? Okay, just go home. And you put that hand in hand with not letting anybody in the house to see her. That's the other thing. Giving her what somebody said, and obviously will never know, was a tranquilizer, right? He was tranquilizing her when she's in this position. Like, I don't know. That I don't understand.

And tranquilizing her seems like a terrible idea if she's vomiting. Exactly. Like, she could have shown her vomit. She could die that way. Right. And it's like, yeah. And then people said she got this sick

after something that he gave her. And yeah. And that, again, that's like yeah, and then people said she got this sick after something that he gave her And yeah, and that again, that's hearsay because none of us were there. Yeah It's a lot of factors I go into this specific case exactly I could see why they used this charge here and where it's silly to say that like oh like you know If he goes down for this watch out, I don't think that's like, no, I don't think that's the case. And look how tough it was to get here in the first place, you know, I think it wasn't like this was like stop one. It's the doctor of it all really takes it up a notch.

Right. Exactly. So Halpern's autopsy report had definitely influenced the jury's decision to return in indictment against John, but so did testimony given by his now ex-wife and clerk. When John had initially asked his lawyer to draw up the divorce papers, his attorney actually strongly advised against it, noting that it would look pretty bad if he was already divorcing the woman he'd left his wife for.

Yeah, but John insisted it needed to happen. And the couple was divorced on March 12, 1970, one week short of the anniversary of John's death. Man. Yeah. They had barely made it a year. When I say you've got to get it together, I mean, you've got to get it together.

You've got to get it together. Like what are you doing? Truly what are you doing? Because it's like when they got married right after this, remember when we were talking about it, we were like, listen, like I'm not saying anything, I'm not saying he did it, I'm just saying, if you know the whole place is thinking

you might have done it, and then you go marry the lady you were having in a fair way, what are you doing? Five minutes after she dies, it's like fucking publicist. You gotta think a little bit. And just use your goddamn brain, do seriously.

Like come on. It turned out though, that John's lawyer was right to be worried He got to think a little bit. Just use your goddamn brain. Do it right. Seriously. Come on. It turned out though, that John's lawyer was right to be worried when she took the witness stand and obviously angry and bitter and performed very dramatically for the jury. Telling them, quote, John Hill had not only killed his first wife, but had also tried to kill her on three occasions. Yeah, man. And insisted that John had managed

to fake his polygraph results and made her best attempt to convince the entire courtroom and the assembled press that John Hill was a violent and dangerous man. Wow. Now, he very well could have been. Yeah, but it's like, I feel like in this case, I don't know, should we, it's,

this is tough. This is tough, but it's also like, I guess she's mad. She obviously, right. She's so mad that she's going to brand him a murderer. That's the thing. I mean, that's pretty mad. That's pretty mad. That's pretty bad blood. Yeah. I mean, an ex couple. It is. Like I really don't like my ex-boyfriend. But I don't know. I'm not gonna paint him as a murderer. Like I'm not gonna be like, oh shit.

It's my chance to get in behind bars for the rest of his life. But I'm like, and that's the thing. Is there some truth to something here that like she's saying? And who knows? And I'm not saying that there isn't for the record. Like that's, I'm like, was there could be,

but he have been violent with her? And then, when you think that sitting on a jury, you would question that testimony. Of course. And that's where I'm like, was that really a smart decision to even put her on the stand? But that's the, and exactly. That's where the problem lies is if she is telling the truth,

then that sucks even more. Exactly more because she wasn't taken seriously. Exactly. And it's like everything about this sucks because it's like she could absolutely just be unhinged and be up there angry and decide to ruin this man. Really? This guy's world up. I just make up the worst shit you can possibly make up about somebody. People have done that.

Oh, yeah. We've seen it happen. You know, like it's not unheard of. Look at the rest of the street case. They should back up right up during that case. Yeah, it's like to me, it's shocking to think somebody would be so angry about the breakup of a marriage that they would want to paint that person as a murderer, but people are absolutely happen.

And again, I'm not saying that that's the case. If she is telling any of the truth, then that sucks even more because she's just being ignored and treated as, which I'm not an in fan, as we know. No, but like, if she was being abused in any way, or he was violent, she does not deserve that. She does not deserve that.

But I don't think I ever would have put her on the stand as a prosecutor or as a, it was not good for anybody. No, to be quite honest. No, but the accusation and the accusations and the indictment were all deeply troubling for John. But just as the grand jury investigation was wrapping up, he started dating a new woman. OK, this one lasts.

OK, John. But seriously, like the marriage, I should say. Like, come on. Okay. This one lasts. Okay, John. But seriously, like the marriage, I should say, come on. Yeah. Connie Loseby, who would serve as a source of comfort and support through the upcoming trial, was the new woman John was dating. Under normal circumstances, his romantic life obviously wouldn't be that important. But now in the context of his legal troubles, it appeared to the outside world that he had a bit of a habit of of his legal troubles, it appeared to the outside world that he had a bit of a habit of trading one wife in for another pretty rapidly. In fact, it took John's lawyer Richard Ray Shorse Haynes,

who I'm actually working on another case of his right now. Oh my God. considerable effort and convincing to prevent his client from marrying Connie before the trial. He was like, I don't think you should do this. He's like, do just take a minute. He's like, I told you not to divorce Anne in the middle of this and look at her on the stand over there.

That's not good for you. You're ready to marry again in the middle of this. Like, dude, get it again. You sure fucking brain. Like what is going on? Not only are you on trial for murder by omission. Like you're in the headlines for that anyway. You would be regardless. You're a high society man.

What the fuck are you doing? It is just wild. Play the game idiot. Yeah, this is just wild. Jesus Christ. So when the trial did finally begin on February 15th, 1971, John Hill's love life was, of course, put on display for everybody to see.

Yeah, which it didn't need to be. It didn't need to be, but in this case, it's like honey. But that's what I'm saying. He didn't need this to be part of it. Like why did you do this? Like take a beat. Yes. Take a beat.

Please. Be a dad. Take a beat and deal with what's going on in your life. Exactly. Exactly. I understand you need to like, if, because again, if he's not part of this, if this is all like holy shit, I didn't do this.

Which we don't know. Which we don't know. I mean, he was negligent. That is by 100%, 100%, nobody can deny that. But it's like, if he's really just going through this shit and it's like holy shit, like I fucked up. I understand needing comfort, like somebody to like, it's probably lonely and scary and like, whatever.

I get that. Don't date someone right away. Be a friend. Be a friend. Fight a friend. That's like, wait a little bit. That's the thing. It's just, you know, it's not going to look good. Don't be seen in the 50th of a while, then you're not related to. So in his opening statement for the jury, I.D. McMaster said, we expect to prove that problems arose in the course of this marriage,

which resulted in the filing of a divorce petition on December 3rd, 1968. When John learned that John planned to contest the marriage, using his affair with Anne against him, he withdrew his petition. McMaster continued on, having failed to terminate the marriage legally, the defendant began to formulate a plan to rid himself of an unwanted, oh, unwanted wife. So after opening statements, McMaster called several witnesses to the stand to testify us to John's behavior and actions and the days leading up to and immediately following

John's death. Among the first witnesses was a woman named Diane set to gas, I believe. She was a family friend who paid multiple visits to check on John before she was even admitted to the hospital. Among other things, Diane told the jury that on the night before Joan's funeral, John was showing Laurel and Hardy films to his friends in the home, just laughing and having a good time.

The night before her funeral, like after she had died, the most violent death in front of him and in his arms. Okay, yeah. According to Diane, John said Joan had a, and this is a quote, had a very high fever, approximately 106. And he had broken it. He said after he broke the fever, he didn't take her to a hospital because he thought she was getting all right.

John. 106 degree fever as an adult. Are you fucking kidding me? I, like, you're bordering brain damage at that point. One of six is just why. That is bordering brain damage, right? I think they've found research that suggests that it's like not as simple as that, but I don't.

I honestly do not know what the newest thing is. That was always the thought that I passed. I think it was like 105 or something. Well, so back then you would have thought. So back there I was going to say so that was the thought process back there. And it still might be now. I haven't seen the updated stuff. Okay.

I know for an adult that is incredibly high because I know they let kids get a little higher. It's a strange thing. Yeah, and that's only nowadays that the kids get higher back. But then even you would have brought your kid or your wife to a hospital, you would think. Well, that's the other thing with that doctor who was like, oh, watch out, husbands of America. You're all gonna get thrown in jail for killing your wives if they die.

It's like, but think about it if you did this still, because he's acting like that's so wild. And it's like, but if you just watched your child suffer for days and did nothing to bring them to a hospital or to help them. Same thing. You would be charged with something. Exactly. For like willfully ignoring that your child is sick.

So why is your partner any different? Agreed. Agreed. Agreed. If it's the person in your life that you have especially legally bound yourself to. Yeah. You should have to bring them a cake for them. You should give a shit.

Right. Yeah, this is it. I mean, 106 is just to be like, oh, yeah, she had a 106 fever, but I broke it. So like, I figured she was fine. Why the fuck did she have a 106 fever in the first place? And it's like you're sitting there being like, I broke it. I broke it. Like, God, it's like, how'd you break it? Like, what did you do? Yeah. Like, what the fun? And it's like, why was it that high in the first place? That would be the shocking thing. Right. Sure. Maybe you broke it, but you bring it to the hospital and go, why did it get that high? Exactly.

Like, what kind of infection is her body fighting off? I mean, that's a lot. That's high. Damn. Listeners, we have a new show that we think you're going to freaking love. From Lundry and hosted by Laura Beale, the critically acclaimed Doctor Death is back with a new season. Doctor Death, Bad Magic, a story of miraculous cures, magic, and murder. When a charismatic hot shot doctor announced revolutionary treatments for cancer and HIV,

it seemed like the world had been given a miracle cure. Medical experts rushed to praise Dr. Serhaut Gammruku, a genius who is the co-founder of a cutting-edge biotech company. But when a team of private researchers dive in a Serhaut's background, they begin to suspect the brilliant doctor is hiding a shocking secret. And when a man is found dead in the snow

with his wrist shackled and bullet casing, spreading the snow bank, Serhaut would no longer be known for world-changing treatments. He'd be known as a fraud and a key suspect and a grisly murder. Follow Dr. Death Bad Magic on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Dr. Death Bad Magic early and add free right now by joining Wondery Plus. Now, by the time Anne Curth took the stand to testify on behalf of the state, it was becoming clear that just as they had in the grand jury case, the District Attorney's Office was hoping to succeed with a case built on Inuendo.

Yeah. In fact, racehorse Haynes, the defense attorney there, had argued considerably, actually, to keep Anne out of the courtroom for obvious reasons, knowing that her anger and resentment could bleed to a mostly slanderous testimony about his client. But he was ultimately overruled. And on February 25th, she did arrive in court to testify. According to Anne, John hated Joan and quote, couldn't stand to be around her. And she, that's also fucked up.

It's like, yeah, we don't need to. I guess we do need to know that. No, I know. It's just like, it just sucks. That's a mother of his child. Well, like, that's really fucked up. It's sad. Now over the course of her testimony

and claimed that she'd found, quote, three laboratory dishes containing a reddish substance with white spots in John's apartment. And she heavily implied that he had used tainted pastries Dish's containing a reddish substance with white spots in John's apartment. And she heavily implied that he had used tainted pastries to poison Joan. That's specific. Very specific. All of that is pretty specific. According to Anne, his violent rage was not just reserved for Joan, like I said earlier.

While on the stand, she told the jury that he had also tried to kill her multiple times, once by deliberately crashing their car into a bridge about men, or about men. And another time by quote, trying to inject her with a syringe. So it's like, these are like pretty specific. And again, I know people lie. I know I realize that I'm not being like, well, how so much wrong?

Yeah. But it's like, I'm not a murderer. That's specific shit. And we're gonna get more specific because when asked by McMaster why she thought John was trying to kill her with a syringe and said he just told me how he killed Joan with a needle,

he pulled the syringe from his pocket and tried to get it into me. I mean, that's scary. And who am I to say that that didn't happen? I don't know. Well, that's the thing. It's like, I'm not gonna sit here and say, she's like, do I like him? say that that didn't happen? I don't know. Well, that's the thing. I'm not going to sit here and say she's lying. Do I like him?

No. Do I believe her? I don't know. I have no idea. I'm not going to say she's wrong in that she's totally lying. Imagine if she's telling the truth. Well, that's exactly the problem.

You're not just going to like, but it's like, what a shitty way for this to come about if she is telling the truth because so many people aren't going to believe it and just think she's angry. And you wish that there was somebody there during those times. Yeah. shitty way for this to come about if she is. They'll be telling the truth because so many people aren't gonna believe it and just think she's angry. And you wish that there was somebody there during those times.

Like you wish that some kind of, there was some kind of person near her that knew that there was something going on that could be like, yeah, there was some stuff happening. Especially after that car crash, it's too bad that potentially, like she didn't say anything then and they couldn't have figured out like was this intentional?

Like, you know how they can look into that? Yeah, this is interesting. But Anne claimed that John's hand was shaking too hard to inject this or engine to her and he actually dropped it, but that he had another and again attempted to inject her with something, but abandoned his plan

when the headlights of an approaching car came into view, she said, the fuck? Now that dramatic revelation was immediately followed by a loud and emphatic objection from Haynes, the defense attorney, who argued that the testimony was prejudicial, inflammatory, and privileged as communication between a husband and a wife. That's fucked up. Yeah. And at that point he moved for a mistrial. It's fucked up, but that

whole loophole there. I think that that's a way that loophole can be so fucking detrimental. And it doesn't always work. I was watching something recently. I don't even remember if it was fiction or not. Or maybe I read something about it recently. Maybe it was a dream. Maybe it was a dream. No, I remember reading or watching something where they were gonna try to use that defense, but then they couldn't.

Yeah, definitely. It's a hairy for a very specific situation. Yeah. And I'm talking about the privileged testimony. Yeah. But he was like, fuck this, we're going for it. And he moved for a mistrial. Judge Fred Hoey overruled Haynes objection

and called a recess. But when they returned a short time later, the judge said he reconsidered what had occurred in the courtroom and granted a mistrial. Are you kidding me? That's why I was like, why the fuck did you guys want her on the stand? Like, I know it would have been great, but the testimony was so intense and so...

Wow. Yeah, that I... I... You could see this coming from a mile away, that a mistrial was gonna happen. Oh. And it's like, again, if he really did do that shit, that is so fucked up that her just simply saying that he did that shit.

If it's the truth, made a mistrial. Can you imagine that? Because it's like that's real. You sit up there and they say, do you swear to sell the whole truth? And you tell them the truth. And you're like, yeah, and you go ahead and do that, like hopefully.

This is fucked up. And if that's the outcome, like, that's and you go ahead and do that, like hopefully. This is fucked up. And if that's the outcome, like, that's why people don't testify sometimes. That's why people don't talk about this shit. Wow, that's really fucked up. So, so, uh, Judge Hoey. Hoey, I know. That's a great name.

Hoey. I just had to say, it's great. Judge Hoey. Oh my God. So outside the courtroom, reporters had expected to find John Hill pleased with the outcome. And they're actually surprised by his reaction to the judges' declaration. He told the press, I'm disappointed that we didn't get to carry on with this.

I would have liked to get it over with. Oh. Being like, I really would like my name cleared here. Like I would like to be declared innocent. Yeah, just because a mistrial does carry with it some connotations. Like, because it's literally like something went to Rye and and we're not continuing but we still have no idea. Let's go. That's the thing. Yeah. Now it turned out that John may have been right to be disappointed though.

A poll of the jurors conducted just a few days after the trial indicated that there was an overwhelming majority in favor of an acquittal. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So he was right. So John Hill was not the only one disappointed with the mistrial, obviously, after spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in his pursuit of justice. And just in general, Ash Robinson was outraged by this decision. ID McMaster was also in a similar situation. He spent a wild amount of the state's time and resources pursuing this case that many at this point just believed was a lost cause. And given all that had gone into the case against John Hill to that point, neither man was willing to let it go so easily. And a few months after the mist trial was declared, the DA's office announced that

the second trial of John Hill would begin November 15th, 1972. No. Throughout his relationship with Connie, John had managed to keep the details of the trial and his relationships with Joan and Anne kind of private from her somehow. That's a little shocking. It's trulius.

But over, excuse me, of course, she knew why he was on trial and she'd heard about Joan's death and the papers, but she actually didn't know anything about Ash Robinson. Anne's claims that John had tried to murder Joan were also something that Connie didn't really know about. And she didn't really know about any of the other details that came out in court.

I don't I guess she wasn't there. But that changed in the days just before the wedding because he does end up proposing to her. And just the days just before the wedding, because he does end up proposing to her. Uh-oh. And just a couple days before the wedding, a folder arrived, addressed to Connie's parents. Inside, there were newspaper clippings, reports, and other information detailing the entire situation. The press reports of Joan's death, the reports from private detectives and doctors, and a wealth of information about Johnson, Dutman and trial.

The envelope had no return address, but most in Texas assumed that it had come from at least Ash Robinson or his people, at least his people trying to save a gal, which from what they think is good. You know, I can't be mad at that. I honestly can't. This is what he and his truly believed to warn this girl

is the right thing to do. And if he, you know, whatever, it's just, if he truly felt this way. And he did truly feel this way. Now, John had fully expected McMaster to retry him for murder. But in the meantime, he wasn't gonna let the district attorney or Ash Robinson control the rest of his life.

In June of that year, he and Connie did end up getting married and a small ceremony of friends. I'm surprised her parents didn't... Yeah. ...couldn't have a little wary of that. Very interesting. Or maybe they were. That's true.

They were, to some degree. But she's a grown woman. So it was his third marriage in her first. By that point, John's income had been seriously impacted by the case, and most of his savings had also been eaten up to pay for his defense. And to make matters worse, the bank that held several of the loans that he had taken out to renovate the house had called in the loan, placing further financial stress on this new couple and preventing them from even taking a honeymoon. Wow, so sad. But still, the couple was happy and excited about their future together.

With the new trial more than a year away at this point, everyone pretty much got back to what passed, I guess, for a normal life. John and his lawyers continued pursuing a civil suit against Ash for slander. McMaster one, excuse me, ran for and won a seat on the criminal court. And Ash Robinson continued his protracted amateur investigation, I guess we could call it, of John Hill. It was, for the first time in a very long time, mostly quiet in the lives of everybody involved in the case. Connie even actually felt like John's colleagues and neighbors were finally putting the pass behind them and willing to welcome him back into social circles. Things seem to just, it's wild how, like, what time does. How people are just willing to forget. Like sure. A new case happens and you...

They just move on. And they just move on, exactly. So in late September of 1972, she traveled with John to Las Vegas for a plastic surgery convention. Neither of them was particularly fallen to Vegas, but the trip kind of was like a honeymoon for them since they hadn't been able to take one after the wedding. And they were just really happy to be together, like getting some time away. They returned to Houston on the evening of September 24th and took a cab from the airport back to the house. Both of them were eager to see Robert little boot, little boot, and tell him about the trip. Connie practically ran to the door, like she really loved Robert.

And well, that's nice. Yeah, she seems like a good woman, from what I read. And I hope it seems like they were happy together So I hope they were yeah So she ran to the dorm, but when she got to it She was surprised to find the door locked so she pressed for the doorbell and waited for a minute But nobody answered and inside all she could hear was the television on like really like like blaring loud And she assumed Robert must have just gotten wrapped up in what he was watching and didn't hear the bell But she also thought why hadn't John's mother who was there taking care of Robert heard it. So she peered through the small window next to the door

and she actually saw a figure moving in their direction and she figured it was Robert. But as the figure got closer, Connie noticed that this figure was dressed in what looked like a green jumpsuit or coveralls with a hood covering their face. What the fuck? And for a split second, she was like, why would Robert or my row, John's mom be wearing a costume?

Like, what? When the door finally did open, Connie saw that it was indeed a hooded figure standing before her. And she still thought it was Robert. So she said, what's this? And for a few seconds, the two just stood at the door and looking at one another and not saying anything. What?

And then it occurred to Connie that the figure before her was actually too tall to be Robert and too large to be Maira. And before she could call out to John, the man in green grabbed her by a gold-breeded necklace she was wearing and dragged her into the house. Oh my, what? Yeah. Everything happened incredibly quickly from that point. The figure finally spoke telling them that it was a robbery. Connie twisted trying to get out of the guy's grip and at this point, John is here and

he steps forward to protect his wife and that distracted the intruder and gave the opportunity to Connie to break free of the intruder's grasp. So now free, John pushed Connie out of the way and she ran out the front door toward the neighbor's house to get help. She just reached the house two doors down when she heard a gunshot and then she heard another. She shot up.

So she shouted to her neighbor, my husband's being murdered. Just as the neighbor opened the door. What the fuck is going on right now? It's insane. Connie managed to calm herself down enough to call the police on the one when she was inside her neighbor's house and explained what happened.

And then she called Don Fullenwider, one of John's lawyers who actually lived in their neighborhood. So Don raced his over on foot, and he actually managed to reach the house before the police did. Moving slowly, he approached the front door, which was still slightly open and he pushed it, he pushed inside. And inside, the house looked fairly undisturbed, but then his eyes settled on something in the middle of the room. 12-year-old Robert Hill was standing over his father sobbing with his feet, his like Robert's feet,

and his wrists bound with heavy tape. He looked up and this is just so sad. It's also very graphic. There was still a piece of tape hanging from the corner of his mouth where somebody had taped his mouth shut, but at that point he had been able to get it open and he looked up and he said they've killed my daddy. Oh my god, this strung it.

Which like ruined me. I just want a hug, Robert. I know. He went, this kid went through a way too much. I was just gonna say my goodness. By the time I was 12 years old. And then you think you're getting, like it sounds like Connie really cared about him

and like, yeah, it seems like it was gonna be like a happy homehold. Finally. Oh, this is all so complicated and like, yeah, it seems like it was gonna be like a happy homehold. Finally, oh, this is all so complicated and like very upsetting. It's just fucked up. Oh, so fun. So Fuln writer carried the boy outside to the front lawn just as the police and paramedics arrived at the house and they went back inside with the officers to direct them to John's body.

The paramedic checked for a pulse or any sign of life, but there weren't any. And when they turned the body over, this is pretty bleak. When they turned the body over, they were shocked to find that John's eyes, nose, and mouth were completely covered in the same heavy tape that had been used to bind Robert. What? And there was blood seeping out from underneath. Whoever did this shot, is that what they did? They shot him.

And then covered his eyes, nose, and mouth is that what they did? They shot him. They covered his eyes, nose, and mouth with tape or they did that first. Yeah, they did that first. I think the fuck? Yeah, it's very strange. Wow. Yeah. So the paramedics approach just stunned Don Follin Wider and said, I'm sorry, Mr. We're too late. At just 41 years old, John Hill was dead. Four dead. One years old. 41. Wow.

Years old. Wow. So following the declaration of a mistrial, more than a few people wondered whether John Hill was in danger now. Wow. Connie recalled countless nights of harassing phone calls. She said that she would spot Ash driving back and forth outside of their house late at night. John's lawyer, Richard Haynes, had even suggested that John hired a bodyguard.

But by that point, John didn't have the money to get one. Eventually, what did you say? Sorry, that's awful. It is. Yeah. Eventually, after a few months, the calls did slow down and eventually stopped, and even Ash seemed to slow the frequency of his alleged drivebys, which led Connie to believe that they were out of danger and things were finally settling down.

She had kind of said earlier, like, seems like people were finally chilling out. But despite the relative calm, few people were all that surprised when the news of John's murder was reported in the press. ID McMaster told a friend when that old boy signed that letter, Ash Robinson wrote way back in December and then reneged on it, he signed his death warrant. Oh, yeah. Others were less like that's pretty indictment right now. Others were less subtle or quiet about their opinions, which honestly that wasn't that

thought. That was about as subtle as a fucking iron slab falling on you. Not very subtle. No, but I guess other people were like a piano falling on you. Yeah. So just one day after the murder, Richard Haynes told the press, he thought the robbery was a cover-up and the slaying could have been an assassination with the implication that Ash Robinson was behind John's murder.

So the first thing detectives did after searching the scene was talk to Robert Hill. According to the boy, a man had shown up at the Hill residence about a half hour before his parents got home and forced his way inside. After tying up Robert and his grandmother, Myra, the man simply sat in the house and waited for John and Connie to return. Okay.

Robert was in another room when he heard the gun shots. And by the time he managed to get out to where his father was, the intruder was gone. I mean, that was, that seems like that was the intention. You wait for him to come. Oh, yeah. Kill him and then you leave. It was 100%.

Like, that was the kind of proves the, at least the part that this was clearly. This wasn't like just a robbery that John happened to be involved in. Not at all. No. It would take a few more days before John's mother, Maira, could speak. I mean, of course. And also, I mean, one because of the emotional trauma, but she had also been kicked in the throat by the killer. Oh my God. Yeah. Well, that doesn't seem like it would be someone ash Robinson. I know that I believe that that was really it anyway, but this doesn't seem like it would be connected to ash Robinson having his own wife kicked in the throat. Mm-hmm.

I feel like that wouldn't be. That's not his wife. It's John's mom. Oh, John's mom. I forgot this was John's mom. Yeah. But, um, yeah, no, that, but that's also doesn't because it's like having Robert, I don't know, it just doesn't feel you loved Robert.

He loved Robert. I feel like he would never put that kid in. I don't know Ash. I'm acting like I know him. I'm like, I know him. I feel like he, from what I've heard here, it seems, it seems so unlikely that somebody who loves their grandson that much and doats on them so much and cares about them would put them through that kind of trauma for the role of gain, you know, I agree with that. And I'm not saying that he did arrange this, but just playing devil's advocate. Maybe he didn't know the Robert was going to be home.

That's true. Or maybe he didn't. But he would kind of have to know because if he knows that they're on their trip, right? Where's Robert? We kind of have to know because if he knows that they're on their their trip, right where's Robert? If they're not taking care of them and Yeah, I don't know maybe he didn't want to know the details. Yeah, I mean it's it's It's not possible. Yeah, I don't know that he it's all just this is very confusing and poor myra. Yeah, geez Poor Forever one involved in this case. What What a tragedy just keeps tricking down. But when she was able to speak, Maira told a nearly identical story to what Robert had to police. According to Maira, they received a call at the house the night before, from a man who

said his name was James Gleason. There was an urgent tone she said in his voice, and he was very anxious to speak with John. So Maira said the hills would be returning the following evening and as soon as she said that, the man hung up. Oh. Now, hindsight is 2020, but going forward, don't ever tell anybody when your family members are when you are going to be home or anything about your schedule. Don't let people strangers know those things. No. The man called again and the next afternoon, excuse me, called again the next afternoon and again, Maira said that they would be home that night around 7.30. And the man hung out. And obviously she didn't know that.

Of course she didn't. But at about 7 p.m. that night, the doorbell rang. Robert got up to answer it, assuming it was his parents. But when he opened the door, he found a large man standing before them wearing a hood and what appeared to Maira to be a wig, which that just fucking creeps me out. The man raised his gun and pointed it at them and forming them that this was a robbery. He then ordered them into an adjacent room where they were tied up, taped, and just told to sat, to sit down and wait.

About 20 minutes later, they heard the sound of a car pulling up inside the driveway. And fearing that Robert or Myra might call out to John, the man kicked Robert in the side of the head. What? 12-year-old boy and Myra in the throat and then left the room. The fuck? Myra told the detective she didn't recognize the man and he never said anything to indicate who he was or why he was there other than saying it was a robbery.

That's terrifying. But he's sitting in the house waiting for them to come up. Like than saying it was a robbery. That's terrifying. But he's sitting in the house waiting for them to come. He's not going through anything. He's just tying them up. Exactly. What the fuck? So sensing the gravity of the situation, Dr. Joseph Yohimchik decided to handle the case himself on behalf of the coroner's

office. He's like, I'm already. I've already deep in this. So John had been shot. It turned out three times with a 38 caliber revolver. He'd been shot once in the wrist, which I'm assuming was like in a struggle. It defends. Once in the right shoulder and the third shot was the fatal one, which was through the stomach, and it severed his aorta. Oh, yeah. Oh, the bleeding. Yeah. Oh, yeah. All of the bleeding. Yeah.

Yeah, him check estimated that this is horrible. John likely blood internally for three to five minutes before dying from his wound. So this was unfortunately a slow death. There were also deep scratches and abrasions on his face and arms, which the coroner interpreted as a sign that John had put up a considerable fight before sustaining the disabling shot.

Yeah. I mean, your kid is in the house. Of course. Of course. You're going to fight. Yeah. The detectives at the scene started operating from the position that John's death was simply a robbery gone wrong. I guess that's all they had at that point. I mean, I will see you. I will see you. I will see you. You're going to go about it. And if you start from there, then maybe you can figure it out a long way. Very unbiasedly there. Yeah. So maybe that's, I think that is the smart way. So going in with a preconceived notion of like something strange happened here. Right. And there were signs that maybe this was a robbery because his, uh, John's briefcase

and wallet were missing. And the man who had killed him, like we know, said more than once that it was a robbery. Yeah. But as far as anybody could tell, once they started kind of going through everything, the killer hadn't even entered or seemed interested in the rooms, the other rooms in the house, besides the one where the murder took place, or the murder, excuse me, took place,

which obviously struck at the investigators as strange, because John and Connie's house was full of valuable items. That would have attracted the attention of a robber. And again, why are you waiting for the other people to come home? You've already subdued the grandmother and the child. So now this would be your chance to go take anything you want and get the fuck out of there before somebody who's maybe more in the prime time to fight back with you.

And especially- She's coming home. He got there at seven. She, my friend had told him, you know, like my son who it seems like they're looking for, or this caller, this mystery caller. And if this is, if that was set up as a robbery and it is connected,

you'd have a half hour to get all the shit you've got to get on it out. Before they get home. And not have to kill anybody. So, so the, yeah, no, there's no way. So other than that, those couple things, the scene was light on evidence. And after six hours of searching the premises, the most that the detectives found were the roles of tape used to bind Robert and Myra, one of the fingers from the work gloves that

the intruder wore and the green hood that he had been wearing, which turned out to be a cheap green pillowcase with holes cut out so that he could see. Oh my God, that is like the strangers. Yes, oh, yes. I hate that. Oh, if it's me. Oh God, poor Robert and poor Myra, like seeing that and Connie to open your door to that.

Oh my God, I forgot that she just, oh, yeah, that's something. And it's horrifying. That's out of a nightmare. Later when the evidence had been processed, the detectives would be disappointed to find that no fingerprints had been left anywhere. Of course. Mm-hmm.

Of course. So about a week later, lead detective Jerry Carpenter got a call that some kids had found John's briefcase and some bushes a few miles from the home. When he arrived, carpenter was disappointed to find that all the children in the neighborhood had heavily handled the briefcase. But I see searched around the site for additional evidence. He noticed what he thought was a pipe covered in leaves and mud. But as he started pulling it out of the dirt, he realized it was not a pipe, but a 38 revolver.

Oh, what? Which is what John was shot with. When the ballistics test finally came back a few days later, they confirmed that the revolver discovered in the lot with the briefcase was the exact same one that had been used to kill John Hill. Only a few miles from the house, they threw it in a bush. Yeah.

Fuck. Yeah, that's weird. So detectives, this is where shit is going to go. It goes even more widely. You couldn't make this. You would watch this in a movie and be like, they did a little too much here. Like, I'm not following.

What? I'm going to do my best. It's not that complicated, but you're like, what? So detectives trace the gun back to Dr. Orrin, I believe it's Staves or Stavis. What? A Washington DC doctor. He sheepishly informed detectives that he had indeed purchased the gun while he was in Texas on business, but that it had been stolen from him by a sex worker that he had hired while he was asleep.

And he said that this sex worker also stole one of his cars. Damn. He couldn't remember much about the woman, but he said that she referred to herself by the name Dusty. And he thought that her real name was Martia McCritic. Okay, Mikitri. Using his former vice squad contacts, Carpenter learned that there was indeed a sex worker in Houston who did operate under the name Dusty, and that she would likely be found in the company, excuse me, in the company.

The company. The company. It's a fancy company. A company. It's a fancy company. A company. A company of her boyfriend, Bobby Van Dyver, and an older woman by the name of Lilla Paulis. What the fuck is going on? I told you. It gets shit.

It gets very, very complicated. Okay. So, after months of dead ends and dried up leads, the investigators finally managed to track down all three of these people at Lillah's home in Houston. All were arrested without incident on April 27th, 1973. At first, all three were very uncooperative with investigators. They all denied any involvement in the murder.

They refused to say anything else to detectives. Other than you're gunning up there, or the gun that you stole. Right. But things started to change when Maira and Robert Hill were brought into the precinct for a lineup of the men standing on the other side of the glass, only two looked vaguely familiar to Robert, but he couldn't be certain if either was the intruder. Maira, on the other hand, had absolutely no doubt about it. After looking each person over

carefully and listening to their voices, she identified Bobby, Bobby Van Diver, as the man who had broken into their home and attacked them. Whoa, yeah. It took a few days of contemplation and back and forth with investigators before Bobby finally accepted that there was likely not any way out of the situation and he agreed to talk to Carpenter. According to Bobby, it was late in, excuse me, it was August 1972 when Lilla, the older woman, who I think they were just like friends with her, Lilla started talking about a contract on someone's life with a $5,000 payout. Shut the fuck up.

Ordinarily Bobby didn't do things like that, he said, but he was particularly broke at the time and he told her that he'd think about it. I love ordinarily, I wouldn't. Ordinarily I wouldn't be a highly-hybrid man, but. I wouldn't kill people for money, but tough times, you know. Jesus Christ. So a few days later, Lilla called to say that somebody else had taken the job, so forget it. But then a few days after that, she called again and she said that had fallen through and

Bobby, it's still available if you want it. He told the detective. She told me that the contract was on a doctor who had killed his wife and it was the wife's father who was wanting him dead. Oh boy. During his statement, Bobby knew all the details of the case from the location of the hills house to their schedules. When Lilla gave Bobby the photo of his target, it had been cut along the corners into the shape of a coffin.

What? She said had been done by ash. That is theatrical. The theatrical is fuck. Marsha helped gather the information and tracked the hills movements to make sure that everything would work out as planned. And Bobby's description of the Night of the Murders was nearly identical to what the

investigators had been told by Robert and Maira. He told Carpenter, I got the pillowcase from Lil'a Polis' house. What the fuck? This is so fucked up. It's unreal. His account of the murder not only matched the witnesses' statements, but it also fit with the theory and the evidence collected at the scene and from the body. But the problem was, while they believed what Bobby had told them, their entire case was turning into this gigantic conspiracy.

Because now we're bringing Ash Robinson into it and saying he contracted these people. And now we have to prove that. How do we prove that? Well, yeah, this just keeps turning. This is one of the most twisty, turning cases that I have ever read out. It really is.

So the biggest challenge facing the district attorney at that point was according to Texas law, a jury could not convict a person based solely on the testimony of their accomplice. That's to say, Bobby might have confessed to the murder, but in order to get additional convictions for his girlfriend, Marcia McKittrick and Lillipolus and Ash Robbins said, they would all need to have corroborating testimony. But still, prosecutor Bob Bennett decided

to bring the case before a grand jury, who indicted Bobby Van Diver and Martia McCritic for first-degree murder and Lil' Apollis, as an accomplice. Wow. So while they waited for the trial date to come, Bennett put Bobby Van Diver and his wife, who was not Martia, oh my God, these men, I know, up in a motel, where it was basically

like a kind of house arrest where Bobby agreed to stay in the motel unless given explicit permission to go anywhere else. In June of 1973, Bobby explained that his wife, Vicki, had been engaged in a bitter custody battle with the father of her child, and needed to travel to Dallas for a hearing. And he was seeking permission to accompany her

and stay there for the duration of that trial. So I just want to get this straight. Totally, I got it. His wife is trying to get custody of a child while married to a man who admitted to just doing a contract killing? Yep. Or I don't know if she currently had custody.

Don't give them custody. Yeah, don't give them custody. I know this is long ago in the past, but like hope that kid is okay, because the fact that he's like, I would like to join her for that custody hearing. It's like, my guy, I don't think you should. Yeah, I think that's actually gonna be that.

I think that's gonna be a strike against her. Yeah, you would think. Like, it's like you are living in a motel right now because you have to be under arrest. Because you just admitted to doing a contract killing, kicking a gram on the throat and kicking a kid in the head and murdering a man. After murdering a man.

And you would have murdered Connie if she had gotten out of the house. Like, no one's all right. No one is okay. No one's okay here. No. This is really wild. I just can't my brain won't wrap around

to any of these people's actions or thoughts. So. And when we say no one, we mean no one, literally no one. Because given how cooperative Bobby had been to that point, Bennett said, yeah, you can go travel to that custody hearing on the condition that you check in with me regularly and return for your trial, which is scheduled for September. So you really meant no one?

No, I straight up. Yeah. No one. No one's all right. Now you're, you're going to be shocked to hear that months past and Bobby actually did seem to be following the rules laid up by the shocking, which set the prosecutors mind at ease. He even showed up for his trial in September just as he was expected to do. But upon his arrival, he learned that the trial would be delayed and was rescheduled for April 1974.

Unfortunately for Bennett, when the trial date finally did arrive, Bobby was nowhere to be seen. Yeah. Maybe the reality of a first-degree murder conviction was finally setting in. Yeah. Or maybe he had just gotten tired of waiting around. But whatever the case, after the trial was rescheduled, Bobby decided not to return to Dallas and instead he and Vicki went on the run. We're afraid without that child.

I don't think the child was with them. I actually cannot confirm that, but I really hope not. I'm going to say for my own and for everybody's peace of mind that, no. They were not. And that child is an adult now and it's fine. Yeah, totally fine. They ended up settling in Longview, Texas under the... Or they both settled in Longview, Texas and he underwent the name JC Sheridan.

Wow. He took on an alias. Yeah. As one of the smaller cities in Texas, long views, long forceman agencies had a tendency to know and keep tags, to have some of the local trouble makers. So in Officer John Raymer noticed a new car and two new faces hanging out at the local pool halls and bars. It's a small town. I love it. It's so. He made a point of finding out who this new couple was. He had good instincts and he prided himself on his ability to size people up with reasonable

accuracy. I mean, he's doing good so far. Yes. This guy, this is the end of this is truly movie. It's like a movie. Yeah. It sounds ridiculous, but it's real. As soon as he saw, quote, unquote, JC, JC Sheridan. He figured the guy was in town for one of four reasons,

to sell drugs, to look for an underworld contract, pimping, or he was on the run. Yeah. After getting Sheridan's name, Raymer ran the man through every database he could think of, and he came up with nothing under the name JC Sheridan, of course. But still, something didn't seem right with this new guy in town. So he was like, I'm going gonna keep a close eye on this one.

Good for you, ma'am. Yeah, instincts. Strangely enough, Bobby's arrival in Longview did coincide with a startling increase in bar room fights and fatalities around the area. You don't say? So weird. And law enforcement officials had been on high alert

for any report who was reading alert and reports at the same time, alerts. They've been on high alert for any reports of barfights or problems at drinking establishments. And on the evening of May 11th, John Ramer was punching out of work and he went down to the continental where Vicki was working as a waitress at the time. He was just drinking his coffee and he heard a commotion on the other side of the room. The noise turned out to be coming from a drunk person, just harmlessly ranting about something. But as he scanned the rest of the room, he did lock eyes with a JC Sheridan, aka Bobby, who was playing pool. They stared at one another briefly, and then Bobby gently set his cue down on the table and made a hasty exit toward the back door.

Settle. Yeah. His quick exit only made him more suspicious and ramer-sized. Not subtle. But things felt too tense in the bar that night, so ramer thought it was best to just stick around and make sure things didn't get out of hand in the bar.

And he was like, I'm gonna table that. Yeah, just to show him character. I'm gonna let that just kind of settle, marinate, you know, but just for now. Yeah. But a few days later, he had gotten off of work and was settling into bed at home in his phone ring. The anonymous voice on the other end

sounded young and slightly gruff, not anybody he recognized. The caller informed Raymer that the man he'd been keeping an eye on in Longview was not JC Sheridan, but Bobby Van Diver, or Van Diver, a man who had recently gone on the lamb to avoid first-degree murder. Wow.

Yeah, murder charges, excuse me. Having learned this new information, Raymer knew that he was not going to be able to sleep at this point. So he got back to the office, and he called the Mesquite Police to get a physical description of Bobby. His contact at the Mesquite Police to get a physical description of Bobby. His contact at the Mesquite Police Department

said they would get back to him with a photo identification by teletype. Teletype. Teletype. Rather than wait for the image to reach him now, Raymer went out to patrol in the hopes that he might find Bobby on the street somewhere.

Raymer is like, he's that one like chainspoking in his office. He's the detective somewhere. I remember it's like, he's that one like chainspoken in his office. He's the detective here. Like he's just, I'm like, all right, Raymer. Yeah, all right. He's got instincts. Damn, and they're right. And he was right, he was dead on. Dead on.

Just, that's cool. That is cool. She just sees some guy and be like, I don't know. Like I'm sorry, Raymer is like, like MVP here. That's cool. Yeah. And he's just not giving up. Either he's not like letting it go. sorry, Rayburn's like MVP here. That's cool. Yeah. And he's just not giving up.

Either he's not like letting it go. He's like, something's up here. Quintessential small town cop. Yeah. Like from a movie in Texas. In Texas. He lives in a saloon and I know. Yeah.

He lives in a saloon. His whole house is going to be worse. Exactly. He's a brain man. Brain to love to be right there. But so he's like, yeah, I'm going to go out and find this motherfucker. He was just outside of the continental when he got a radio communication asking him to contact the contact the department. So we found the nearest pay phone and he called the department and of course he got the confirmation that J.C.

Sheridan was Bobby and more importantly during an arrest for drunk driving in February, Bobby told the arresting officer, quote, he would kill the next officer who tried to arrest him. Wow. So now, Rammer's like, fuck. Shit. Now, he knew that Bobby at this point was inside the continental. And under the circumstances, though, he called for backup and waited for them to arrive before attempting the arrest. Raymer keeps getting better. Yeah. He's not going in there like it is. Really?

He's like, I just heard straight up black and white. I'm going to kill the next officer, or try to arrest me. I'm not going to blow myself in there. No. I'm going to get some backup. Like, this man's taken all the rights, that's it. Yes. I'm impressed by Raymer.

I am too. I hope I continue to be. You will. Don't disappoint me. No, no. I was like, don't make him bad. Yeah. So with a plain clothes officer positioned outside the back door,

Raymer entered the continental and approached the area with the pool tables, of course. When he called out Bobby's name, Bobby. Bobby looked up in surprise to see that Raymer was walking towards him with his gun drawn, like Motherfucker, you're under arrest. I love that he called out Bobby. And Bobby looked up.

Because you know it's taking place. It is gonna look good. So with Raymer standing directly in front of him, the two men stared at one another for a few seconds. And then Bobby reached for the gun in Raymer's hand, attempting to push it aside, while then reaching for his own gun with the other hand. Damn.

So instinctively, Raymer fired, but Bobby's hand had pushed the gun down and the bullet ricocheted off the floor and launched in the ceiling. Damn. However, the heat from the discharge made the barrel of the gun really hot, which made Bobby let go, and that gave Raymer the opportunity to get him down. What an intense take down. This is a shootout. So Raymer fired a second shot

this time directly into Bobby's chest at Point Blake range, because he was about to shoot him. He was reaching for his wife, and you gotta do that. And this shot tore a huge hole in Bobby's body. Bobby grabbed desperately at Raymer and dragged him to the floor with him.

Vicki ran over to her husband and terror, pushing Raymer in the other officer aside. But by the time she had Bobby's head in her hands, he was already dead. Holy shit. So he died. So now with Bobby Van Diver dead, Van Diver dead, Bob Bennett's case against those involved in John Hills murder was in peril. Yeah, it was just gonna say that fucked everything up though. It did fuck everything up. Oh no. You can't be disappointed in Raymer

because he didn't really have enough option. Yeah, he was, I mean, that was a situation of killer be killed. Wow. Yeah. So, damn. But it fucked this up. Yeah, it fucked this up.

Yeah. Martian McCritic's lawyer argued that, excuse me, the Kitrix lawyer argued that since Bobby was dead and couldn't testify, the prosecutor was in danger of violating Martian's sixth amendment right to face her accuser. Good Bobby accused him. Yeah, he didn't like it.

Yeah. But the way that like multiple trials in this case just get fucked by like the most vine-weird details. And just like tiny little loopholes. So the judge shot down the lawyers' movement to dismiss the case, but Bennett knew the lawyer had a point. So rather at this point than risk a mistrial or an acquittal, then it actually struck a deal with Marsha to plead no contest and accept the guilt

as an accomplice in Hills murder, particularly as the driver of the car. Okay, as a result of her plea, Marsha was given a sentence of 10 years in prison and was perroled after five years, so she took the deal. Damn. Mm-hmm. Now, Lilla Paulus went to trial in February of 1975

on a charge of being an accomplice to murder. As part of her plea deal, Marsha had testified against Lilla, though she only did so after her immunity was granted. Of course. She told the court that Lilla had been paid $25,000 by Ash Robinson to arrange the murder of his former son-in-law.

And 5,000 of that was what she offered Bobby to actually do the killing, which I was like, whoa, you only got 5,000 of the $25,000 and you're doing the, the, the, the, yeah, like, that's a bad deal. It's a bad deal no matter what, because you're murdering someone. But yeah. In the end, Lilla Paulus' trial was lengthy, and involved many of the Hill's closest friends and associates, but the link between Lilla and Ash was tenuous at best. Really. As expected, when he was called to the stand, Ash, of course, strongly denied playing any role in John's death and told the court, I didn't want him dead.

His killing didn't solve any problems of mine. I mean, which like... He makes a valid... Yeah, what good is your day. Yeah, like I'm we I want what my whole what he wants is I want him behind bars. He's like my whole pursuit here was justice. Yeah, that's not that just ends it. Now it's over. I mean, I guess it depends on his definition of justice. Exactly. And it depends on if he was willing to he just wanted it over. Right. And this was the closest thing to justice, which again, who knows? Oh, me. Now, I really wanted to believe, and I still want to believe that Ash didn't have anything to do with this. You'll never really know. To be honest with you.

But I really, I really just want to believe he didn't. I know. Well, Lilla Paul has tried everything she could think of to put distance between herself and the murder, including telling the jury that Jerry Carpenter had manipulated her into implicating Ash, Jesus. Saying that she would get immunity if she accused Ash. Oh, the plot thickens. But in the end, the jury believed the prosecutor and sentence Lilla to 35 years in prison. The sentence was overturned on appeal in 1981, but it was actually then reinstated by the

criminal court the next year. And unfortunately, if she was innocent, Lilla Paulus died from breast cancer in prison in 1986. Oh wow. Very complicated. In 1977, Connie Hill filed a 7.6 million dollar civil suit against Ash Robinson alleging that he had colluded with Paulus to have John murdered. In court, Myra Hill told the jury that Ash had been obsessed with John ever since Jones death and was quote unquote fiendishly vindictive towards her son. In his defense, Ash told the jury, the jury, this has been a journey. He told the jury, I did want him prosecuted, and if he was guilty, then convicted and pushed for it, punished for it.

But there was no intention any which way in the world of killing him or having him killed. Okay. So he's like, I didn't do it. Yeah. In the end, the jury ruled 10 to 2 against the hills, stating that while he may have been responsible for a certain amount in emotional damages,

quote, Mr. Robinson was not guilty of the conspiracy charge, and he could not be forced to pay for what had already, for what he had already been cleared of by a higher court. Damn. Now, in 1980, CBS News aired a segment on the case alleging that it was very possible Joan Robinson Hill had died from a newly discovered medical condition known as toxic shock. Oh, yes. First identified in the late 70s. Toxic shock syndrome.

Yup, and a scariest thing ever. This scariest thing ever, especially as a woman. Yeah. Because it was first identified in the late 70s and associated with tampon use. Toxic shock syndrome causes many of the symptoms Joan experienced right before her death, and would have explained the rapid onset and quick deterioration. Wow. And as it hadn't been established in the medical community at that point in time, it also

could have accounted for the multiple conflicting causes of death. Because nobody could pinpoint it because they didn't know a lot about it. And at this point, we'll never know because everything has been so compromised at this point. Well, now when the news of the new theory broke, John's former lawyer, Richard Haynes, told reporters, I'm not a doctor, but I'm satisfied in my own mind that Joan Robinson Hill met her death unkindly as it was as a consequence of what we now know

to be toxic shock. Wow. Which he can't say that definitively. No, of course not. It's a possibility that that's what makes him sleep at night. He's saying that's why. That's why. That makes him sleep at night exactly.

That's the perfect way to put it. Yeah. But still, we don't know. That very well could be it, but there was a point in time where it very well could have been hepatitis and that everybody was like, no, there's no way it's hepatitis and then it could have been a bacterial infection and then there was no way it was a bacterial

infection. So we'll never know, unfortunately. But after the end of all the trials, Ash and Reya Robinson relocated to Florida where they lived out the rest of their lives. In 1981, after years of bitterness, Robert Hill reconciled with his grandparents and maintained a good relationship with them until their deaths. Good for him.

And Ash Robinson died of natural causes in February 1986 at the age of 87. Wow. And that is the wildly complicated case of the death of Jonah Robinson Hill in the murder of John Hill. I am at the end of it. No way for that.

At the end of it, you don't even know what to believe in. I have no idea what happened anywhere in that case. Cause it's like no idea. I don't know if Ash hired somebody or not, but like why would somebody else just randomly kill John? Other than no. I can't like um, I don't know what cause also it's like what happened with Ann?

I know. Sounds like there was a lot of shit going on there and it's like, was any of that true? But then it's like, that was true. But then it's like, that was very happy in her relationship with John. But it's like sometimes that,

sometimes that happens, that happens, Sometimes that happens. That happens. We'll never fucking know. Because it's like, it's not like he was without enemies. I mean, look at, and is an enemy of his. Absolutely. It might have some people around her who were not happy

with John or how she was claiming to be free. That's a good point. You know what I didn't say? So that's a whole other point. Again, I'm not saying she did anything, or like she hired anybody or knows anybody that hired anything. Yeah. Just saying that the buck doesn't stop with Ash Robinson there

as the only person who could have possibly been this angry with John Hill. Very good point. I didn't even think of that avenue. And there's also, I mean, you can see it. He made enemies within the, within the, like the doctors,

the medical field, sorry, this case has been so long, I'm like, I can't say. Within the medical field, because I'm sure some people believed that he had killed his wife. And did he have some malpractice? He had that one malpractice thing.

It was so long ago. It's not a long time ago. So there was that. But it's just to say that like, there was some stuff. And like obviously the Ash Robbins and thing, like there's some pieces that you can sit there and put together and go, well, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. But some other stuff could make sense too,

which is unfortunate. Yeah. Either way, it sounds like everybody just what a complicated, awful, tragic in every way conceivable story. Truly. When I, wow. Really think that's the perfect sign-off.

Yeah, truly. With that being said, we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it. Weird. Oh, but I don't even know where to go with that. Slightly this way. Yeah, I don't even think about you. You know that.

Yeah, don't, you can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. dot com slash survey.