Morbid - Episode 529: Ann & Billy Woodward

Starting point is 00:00:00 You're listening to a Moorbit Network podcast. Hey, Weirdos, I'm Ash and I'm Alina and this is Moorbit. It's morbid. It's morbid in the new year. 2024. It's like, Hanna. Some of them probably have come out in the new year, but it hasn't been the new year. And we never know when episodes come out. No.

Starting point is 00:00:40 I think you know this, we know this. We all know it. We all know. I think this one comes out in like two weeks from now, is my assumption. So you know what, you guys are well into the new year, and I hope it's going great. Tell us how it's going.

Starting point is 00:00:52 Yeah, our last year ended just perfectly for what the year was. A crescendo of shit. But you know, literally. It's 2024 is gonna be great. It's going to be so much better. Everybody's walking into 2024. I think everyone's walking into it in their Vellanera, which is like, I like that. I like that. I've seen a lot of people that I love and respect you. So I'm like, I'm glad we're all just walking in hand and hand here.

Starting point is 00:01:23 I like that. Do you know something about me? I don't think I am going to have a villain era. I don't think you are either. I don't think you should. I don't think I won't. So, it makes sense. I think I'm just walking into maybe like, how about a hot girl era?

Starting point is 00:01:35 I like that. I feel like you've been in your hot girl era. I want to continue my hot girl era a little better. Yeah. And I need to get more steps in. Yeah. So I can really be amongst these hot girls. There you go.

Starting point is 00:01:46 I just need to start moving again. Well, that's what they were. We're a little bit centering. Little centering. We did by walking paths, but there's still over there. Oops. Right under my couch right now. Well, I ring in the mirror watching

Starting point is 00:02:03 Married at first sight, Australia. And, you're watching Married at First Night, Married at First Night Australia. And might I say American Married at First Night, take a couple fucking notes. Wow. Married at First Night Australia, Drew and I binged almost the entire season yesterday. Damn. It is so good.

Starting point is 00:02:18 If you have Hulu, you can watch it. I don't know what else it's on, but the drums. Well, I mean, Australia. I love Australia. I love Australia. Or Australia and people. Yeah. Or Australia and listeners have always been lovely as fuck.

Starting point is 00:02:31 And they say the best things. Have you ever heard, I'm not trying to fuck spiders? No, but I agree with that sentiment. Or they say, like, I'm not gonna fuck spiders. I respond to that. Surrey doesn't know how to respond to that. She said, I don't understand. I also am not going to fuck spiders. It means like I'm not trying to mess around. I'm not trying to fuck spiders. That's what they say. Like I'm not going to fuck spiders.

Starting point is 00:02:48 So like I'm not here to fuck spiders. Oh, I can I, I'll Australian listeners. Is it okay if I use that? Yeah, because that's fun. I'm giving credit. Lindal, who is my favorite on this season, I'm watching season 10 of Married At First Night. She said that during her wedding vows

Starting point is 00:03:04 and I was like, that's a queen right there giving credit. Lindel, who is my favorite on this season, I'm watching season 10 of Married Up First Night. She said that during her wedding vows and I was like, that's a queen right there. Wow. That's a queen. That's an elite person, really. It's so good. And you've ever seen the Married Up First Night,

Starting point is 00:03:15 like American version? I think, yeah, I've seen that one episode that everyone's seen, or that one season that everyone's seen. I don't know if that season won or not. It's one of the very early ones. Jamie and Doug, great. Yeah. So, well, this one,

Starting point is 00:03:30 they do dinner parties and they get them on the gather. Oh. And then they have a commitment ceremony every single week where everybody shits like. Yeah, it's fucking aired out in front of everybody. You have to recommit. Or not. You have to recommit. You have to stay or leave.

Starting point is 00:03:45 And if one person writes stay in the couple and the other person writes leave, you have to stay another week to work on your marriage. As long as you're both, as long as they're like, are you like, are you gonna do it? This person's like, I'd like to leave. And you're like, too bad. No, I know when I first saw that I was like, shit.

Starting point is 00:03:59 But damn. It's wild. Yeah. And there's a cheating scandal. Oh my god. That's. It's reality. Yeah. And there's a cheating scandal. Oh my god. That's... It's reality TV fucking on everything.

Starting point is 00:04:10 It's just, it's so good. I just went to Disney on ice this weekend, so. That's different. It's different. That's different for you, especially. Was that triggering? It was a little bit, but I will tell you the girls' faces. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 00:04:24 The cutest thing I've ever seen. Like, it was by far the best part of the weekend. I also think that's just, I guess, as soon as you become a parent, you just do that. Yeah. Like, Disney on the parent, Disney on ice. Yeah, absolutely. Everyone I know or follow on Instagram

Starting point is 00:04:35 that as a parent has been to Disney on ice in the past two weeks. The kids love it. And they do a great job with it. I can't wait to go. It's wonderful. I mean, I love ice skaters. I think ice skaters are like really like I just love watching

Starting point is 00:04:46 Oh, yeah, that was always my favorite part of the Olympics. Me too. All right, so that was fun I'm so nice. It's a nice, awesome moment and then otherwise the stressful end of the year. Yeah My god, but very awesome At the end of the year, I just it just keeps flashing through my brain. I got food poisoning So we'll just leave it at that. Yeah, but it's, you know, fun, fun, fun. So that fun, fun. But 2024, we're all here.

Starting point is 00:05:11 It could be great. Let's all just like, you know, I think just like, everybody's resolution should be, just don't be an asshole. Yeah. And worry about yourself and stop worrying about everybody else. That should be the last thing. That should be the last takeout.

Starting point is 00:05:25 Like mine is, there you go. As you mine is just like, worry about the ones who matter. Don't worry about the ones who don't. Hell yeah. You're not gone, brother. You know, just take care of your own. I'm into it, so I'm saying.

Starting point is 00:05:39 I think we'd all be happier. I think that's a theme of this story. It's take care of your own, but that was not their resolution. No. This is just a very tragic sad story, but it has high society. And you know, I'm a sucker for that. So I mean, I love listening to your stories about high society. I am a great Gatsby fan girl. Yes. So like, I do love just like, like sitting, sitting and walking. Yeah, from the outside. I just want a quick note of high society. Have you watched Sulpern yet?

Starting point is 00:06:10 No, but I've heard many, many things about it. You have to be in the right head space to watch the outside. I've heard that. Let me tell you, and you know what? You have to be in the right head space, and you will never be in the right head space all at the same time.

Starting point is 00:06:23 Okay. It's also very long. It's a commitment. Yeah, I don't know when I'm going to be ready for that head space all at the same time. Okay. It's also very long. It's a commitment. But yeah, I don't know when I'm going to be ready for that. Cinematically, it's beautiful. I've heard great things. I've heard interesting things. But oh my god.

Starting point is 00:06:32 Yeah. Who knows? Maybe I'll have time for that at some point. It's Kuku Nutspinana's, but I said hi society, so I thought of it. But anyway, sorry, let's go back to the story. Hi society. My story today, much like Salper, and his highly tragic,

Starting point is 00:06:45 but other than that, it doesn't really have any correlation. We're gonna be talking about Ann and Billy Woodward today. And if you know anything about Truman Capote and that new show, that new Ryan Murphy show, feud that's coming out, then you will probably know about this a little bit.

Starting point is 00:07:00 Because that's what it is, right? It's feud. And this is a feud. Because it's like an anthology like American Horror Story where it's a new food every season. Okay. And this new one, which I thought was a very interesting concept and I'm excited for it.

Starting point is 00:07:14 This feud with Truman Capote's women that he ended up muting with. So this lady was like never friends with him at all, but he ended up doing her so dirty, like real bad. But before all of that came, we gotta go back to the beginning. So Ann Woodward, we're gonna focus on her and Billy Woodward, but we'll start with Ann.

Starting point is 00:07:36 To say that Ann Woodward came from humble beginnings would be the profoundest of understatements. Oh boy. She was born Angeline Lucille Crowe on December 12th, 1915, and Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, Kansas. Her early life was a very far cry from New York high society, like the farthest possible. The farthest cry? Yes. Her father, Jesse Claude Crowell, he was an occasional farmer and railway driver who spent more of his time looking for money than he did

Starting point is 00:08:03 actually trying to earn it. He was just looking for quick, easy money. Yeah. But her mom, Ethel Krawl, couldn't have been any different from her husband. She was an incredibly hard worker and she had a very stubborn personality. Not only did she take care of her and Jessie's two small children,

Starting point is 00:08:18 she took care of his parents and really for all intents and purposes took care of him too. Ethel. Ethel had a lot under shoulders. Yeah. And at the time, she was also taking correspondence courses in teaching through the state manual training

Starting point is 00:08:33 normal school. Look at this bad ass. Should just do it at all. Yeah. Now Ethel and Jessie's marriage in 1913 had gotten off to kind of a rocky start. They were married in an age, and this is gonna blow your mind. Where school teachers were expected to be single women,

Starting point is 00:08:49 so Ethel had to keep her marriage to Jesse a secret for years. So it was not to affect their income. So I feel like you can't win. No. Because you read their single in a spinster or you're married and shunned anyways because you're not supposed to be married.

Starting point is 00:09:06 Isn't that strange that like if you were a school teacher, you weren't supposed to be married. That's incredibly dumb. Yeah, 1913 men don't get that. But despite her work ethic and commitment to providing for others, Ethel Crowe believed that Kansas was just a desert and she wanted way more for her children

Starting point is 00:09:21 than what they were going to have, working the families already struggling farm. I love Ethel. I do too. And she didn't know it at the time, unfortunately, but her near obsession with self-improvement and to stay in for poverty would have a considerable influence specifically on her daughter in. Now, unfortunately, tragedy struck the family in 1918. When five-year-old Jesse Jr. died in the middle of the night.

Starting point is 00:09:45 He choked to death on his own fluids is what they said. Oh my God. But today, most likely, we would assume that he probably had pneumonia and didn't have like the proper treatment at the time. That's horrific. But the death of her child caused Ethel to turn away from her family first emotionally and then physically. She was just distraught after losing a child. And she just had

Starting point is 00:10:06 this unrelenting guilt that she thought that her child's death was her fault in some way. Yeah. I mean, I can understand, like it absolutely wasn't, but I can understand why she thought that. And she convinced herself that if she had the money to take her son to a hospital, his death could have been prevented. That's so sad. It is. And that line of thinking eventually grew into the belief that the whole thing could have been avoided if she was able to get out of Kansas and had never married a poor farmer.

Starting point is 00:10:32 So she put on herself. She had so much guilt. And then because of that guilt, she just started resenting everything and everybody around her. Of course. And despite friends and family urging her to think of her husband, think of her daughter,

Starting point is 00:10:44 think of what you do still have, and they desperately need you, she was like, I can't do this. And that's when she enrolled in the normal school and moved several hours away to pursue her education. Oh, wow. She just needed to get away from it all. Damn.

Starting point is 00:10:57 And maybe it was like the best thing for her at that point, because I don't know that she was going to be great at home. I think she needed to take that break, but at the same time, it's like, you kind of can't, you know? That's a tough one. It's a catch-22 either way. Now, the extreme poverty and emotional tumult of the early days, or the early years, sadly didn't improve much as Anne grew older.

Starting point is 00:11:18 By the time she was 10, her parents' relationship had just completely deteriorated, to the point that Jesse finally did ask Ethel for a divorce, which back then was huge. Like nobody got divorced back then. But at that point, there had been so many affairs and emotional betrayals that respectability didn't matter much.

Starting point is 00:11:37 And Ethel was like, yeah, sign me up. Like I'm good. I'm good. So she packed up her daughter in their few belongings and moved back to Pittsburgh and Pittsburgh, Kansas. In the years that followed, Ethel and married another man whom she also divorced not long after.

Starting point is 00:11:52 And she and Anne relocated again this time to Kansas City where Ethel actually opened her own taxi business that grew to employ several drivers and a ton of company owned cars. Sam. So she's taken her head after her head, but she's still chugging a lot. She's getting back up. The move to Kansas City got them out of the crushing poverty of Kansas farm life, but it did little to improve Anne or Ethel's lives,

Starting point is 00:12:16 like emotionally. Ethel was a way working day and night to support herself and her daughter. So Anne found an escape in the movie houses and film magazines of the day, all presenting this glamorous life in Hollywood. Hollywood? Hollywood.

Starting point is 00:12:31 That now she was just determined to find for herself. She wanted to be on the big screen. She wanted to get out of Kansas. It wants to be a star. She wanted to be a star. And the name and lights. Yes. Now that determination to find her way out of poverty

Starting point is 00:12:45 was only strengthened then by the hardships and just terrible time that she saw her mother go through every single day. As a single woman and a female business owner, Ethel was subject to all kinds of misogyny in her ass man. Oh, I'm sure. And most of which came from her male employees. Her employees?

Starting point is 00:13:02 Her employees because they resented having to work for a woman. And just fucking bad. Didn't have any reservations about showing it. That's absurd. It's like, cool, you're fired. You're tiny, bye. Now, by the time she reached her 21st birthday,

Starting point is 00:13:14 Angie Crowe had reinvented herself as Anne Crowe, aspiring model and movie star. Ooh. No longer content with the impoverished life in Kansas City that she was living. She took a move and decided to go to Denver to stay with her aunt and cousins. And while she lived in Denver, she actually managed

Starting point is 00:13:32 to secure a few jobs modeling for catalogs before she eventually returned to Kansas City, now more restless than ever. Because she had a small taste of what she had been dreaming of. Yeah. She wasn't content to just dream of wealth and fame anymore. She was like, I got to make this happen. So she finally made the decision at this point to move to New York City just a few months later. New York City, the big city, the big apple. And she figured, you know, I did make some connections in Denver, maybe those will

Starting point is 00:13:59 pay off once I get to New York. And Ethel obviously hated to see her daughter go, but at the same time, this was what she wanted for Anne to get out of Kansas and to experience big things and have the life that Ethel didn't get to have. So she talked to Anne before she left and told her, never talk to Strange Men, never look at them past daylight in the street. I mean, that's good advice, sound advice. And with that advice to Spence, she gave Anne, I love this,

Starting point is 00:14:25 because I just picture it's like a movie thing. She gave Anne this bag of $5 bills that totaled up to about $400. Oh my God. And one of the cars from the taxi company, and she watched as Andrew out of Kansas. So she just handed her daughter this bag of cash that she'd been saving.

Starting point is 00:14:42 Yep. And one of her taxi cabs, that's some mom shit. Right? Just like some mom shit, Ethel. Here you go. Take care of yourself. Take this big bag of cash that I have to keep in my life. Oh my god. I was last time I told you about our new sponsor, Squeeze.com. And I have to say, guys, no, the excitement has not faded. I have all kinds of juices stocked in the fridge at this point, and it has been so nice just to be able to grab them if I'm on the go. Running late on my way to work, which is a usual for me, and no time to make breakfast, grab a juice, feeling run down and groggy, juice. I'm feeling so

Starting point is 00:15:29 good and way more energetic than I have in the past. My skin is glowing like a damn sun bean and my jeans are fitting better, which is making my heart happy. And when I open my fridge, it's like this beautiful array of different colors because the juices are so bright and gorgeous that drinking them will make you feel bright and gorgeous. If you're feeling run down from the holidays or just blonde general, get you some squeeze.com juices. Add to squeeze.com and enter code morbid for free same day local delivery or fast free delivery nationwide. This show is sponsored by Better Help. Around New Year, we get obsessed

Starting point is 00:16:05 without a change ourselves, instead of just expanding on what we're already doing right. Maybe you finally organized one part of your space and you wanna tackle another. Or maybe you're taking supplements every morning and now you wanna have it stack and add breakfast into that too. Therapy helps you find your strength

Starting point is 00:16:19 so you can ditch the extreme resolutions and make changes that really stick. New Year, same you, just a little bit better, baby. I absolutely love therapy. I remember going to therapy around New Year's last year and I had all these resolutions that I was telling my therapist about and she was like, baby girl, slow down.

Starting point is 00:16:37 What the heck are you doing? Focus on one thing at once and that really had me like level out my head and kind of reflect on why I wanted to make so many changes all at once. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give Better Help a try. It's entirely online designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule, and all you have to do is fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist, and you can switch

Starting point is 00:16:57 therapists any time for no additional charge. Celebrate the progress you've already made. Visit BetterHelp.com slash morbid today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelphelp.com slash morbid. So when she arrived in New York in August of 1937, and was 22 years old now, unemployed and homeless, she literally had nowhere to go at this point. But she had that drive that her mother hadn't stilled in her, and it was only intensified now by her fear of having to go back to Kansas,

Starting point is 00:17:31 being like, yeah, I didn't make it. Yeah. So she found a cheap hotel room using some of the money that Ethel had given her. And the next day, I love this too, the story's awesome. She went straight to the power of agency, which was a modeling agency on Park Ave. She didn't make like any contacts there. She went straight to the power of agency, which was a modeling agency on Park Ave. She didn't make any contacts there. There's a famous modeling agency. It is.

Starting point is 00:17:50 Yeah. Nobody was expecting her at the agency. She didn't have, like, an appointment or anything like that. She was walking in her. And the secretary was like, okay, why don't you take a seat until somebody's available to speak with you. But by 6.30 that night, everyone had left for the day.

Starting point is 00:18:03 And Anne was asked to leave. So she sat there the whole day, and no one was coming out to talk to her. But she was committed. So she returned to the next day, and the next day. And the next day, and the same thing she arrived right when they opened. Take a seat, someone will be able to talk to you like when they can, no one. And then finally on the fourth day of sitting and waiting, John Powers agreed to see Anne.

Starting point is 00:18:28 John Powers, like, he did. He said he didn't refuse to hire her, but he did tell her that she would need a nose job in order to succeed with his agency. He was like, the rest of you is fine, but your nose is a little off. Oh, what an awful world. Truly.

Starting point is 00:18:44 But you know what? And said bet. And she borrowed some money from a friend and paid $500 for her nose job. Wow. Which also like great friends. I was just a little new 500 bucks friend. You know, she figured she'd be able to pay the money back to her friend when she saved up some of her earnings from a new job that she got at the sax fifth avenue hat counter.

Starting point is 00:19:04 A hat counter. So that was like her little side hustle or I guess modeling was her side hustle. Yeah, that was her main job. She never really did manage to get the big glamorous modeling jobs that she hoped for, but she did manage to find success at the powers agency as one of the more popular models for soap, toothpaste, and like home and beauty products kind of thing. Yeah. Between the money she made from her modeling job and her job at SAC, she was able to move into her own small apartment on East 50th Street,

Starting point is 00:19:31 which she wallpapered quote, with menus from chic nightclubs and restaurants such as El Maroco 21 and the Stork Club. That is so cool sounding. Isn't it? I just like, you're making it in the big city. You're going to these nightclubs. Yeah. And you're like, you know what city. You're going to these night clothes.

Starting point is 00:19:45 Yeah. You're like, you know what I have an idea? Just a DIY queen. Like, and it just sounds so like, it sounds so like bohemian and cool. It does. You know, Justinant. It also reminds me of like when we would put like Abercrombies bags on our walls and be like, this is fashion. This is the height of luxury. We really thought. No thought we really did. During the day and she modeled, of course, she worked the counter at SACS and she took acting and dance classes. Yeah, she is hustling. Hustling and she had to. We love to see it. And then at night, she dined at the city's most popular restaurants and how close she did. And it was all paid for by the powers agency. And it was because she was one of their

Starting point is 00:20:25 more popular models in the space that she was. So they wanted to promote her more and more. So she got to go to these fancy places. Her hard work finally paid off in November of 1938 when she landed a role as a chorus girl in a new musical review called Set to Music. Set to Music. Set to Music.

Starting point is 00:20:43 The Broadway show and then subsequent national tour put Anne in contact with some of the idols that she worshiped as a teenager in her room back in Kansas. But she still wanted more. Ethos daughter, baby. I was just going to say that's the Ethel. She wanted more recognition, more fame, more wealth, more everything.

Starting point is 00:21:01 She was, she was tenacious. Yeah. But unfortunately, just as she was tenacious. Yeah. But unfortunately, just as she was really coming into her own, things back in Kansas took a turn. Oh no. One morning, Ethel woke up with a really bad sore throat. And over the course of the next few weeks, it worsened into a cough and eventually respiratory problems that landed her in the hospital. Eventually, Anne paid to have her mother transferred to a hospital in St. Louis, St. Louis, I don't know,

Starting point is 00:21:28 where she would have access to a specialist, but it did little good. According to the doctors, Ethel had, quote, developed a rare lung disease that was common in cattle. And sadly, they didn't have much hope that her condition was going to improve. If anything, she was just gonna slowly get worse. Ethel.

Starting point is 00:21:45 And what a, like, what? A cattle that is called an encatal? Yeah. That's awful. And probably because of all her work on the phone. I was going to say, yeah. So Anne called her mother regularly to check in, wondering if she should leave the show and go be by her side.

Starting point is 00:22:00 But each time Ethel insisted, nope, you do not leave the show, you finish it out. She's just mom-in till she is. She is. She's like, you're gonna get something better than I did. Exactly. And like, don't mess it up for me. That's some true mom shit. Like, don't worry about me, I'm fine. I want you to succeed and do what you wanna do.

Starting point is 00:22:17 But you feel bad for Anne to be in that position because that's your mom. Of course you can't imagine. Like, you would feel so selfish being away from her, but then she's telling you, no, like, you gotta do what you gotta do. It's a near impossible choice to make.

Starting point is 00:22:29 It is. But she did finish it out. And when this tour of set to music came to an end, Ann Cotta ride from New York to Missouri to be by her mother's side. By September of 1940, she was covering all of Ethel's medical bills and hospital bills. And she was spending almost all of her time by her mom's side to make up, I think, for the time that she was away.

Starting point is 00:22:48 A mother daughter duo right now. I know. Like, I'm loving it. But this sad thing was because she was spending all this time by Ethel's side, all the progress she had made in New York and all the connections that she had were slowly slipping away. Oh, geez. And now she was faced with a decision to stay in Kansas with her mom or return to New York. And Anne was like, I can't stay in Kansas.

Starting point is 00:23:09 Like, this is not what I want for myself. I've made too much progress. I've made too much progress. This is my mom wants for me. So she borrowed money from a friend again. And she had Ethel transferred to a special unit at the New York hospital. Oh, my goodness.

Starting point is 00:23:21 And also these friends. I know. Damn. Which makes you think, like, obviously, Anne had to be like somewhat of a good person. Yeah, at least she definitely had to, you said at least at this point. At least at this point. Maybe she was the whole way through. I don't know. Who knows? But again, like you said, having friends like that does tell you who you are as a person. Yeah, you think so.

Starting point is 00:23:40 So people see you. Right. So in the short amount of time that she'd been away, unfortunately, like I said, things in New York had changed for Ann. The medical bills had taken a serious financial toll, which forced her to give a repent house apartment on East 50th Street and moved to a studio apartment on East 56th Street. Man, oh man.

Starting point is 00:23:59 And most of the personal and professional connections that she had made during her time and set to music had either moved on to other productions or gone gone out to Hollywood to try their luck in the film industry, which is what she really wanted to do. By the end of 1940, and she still hadn't found any study work, and her expenses, mostly due to paying Ethel's medical bills, were threatening to send her back to Kansas if she didn't find something reliable soon. I smell a little desperation here.

Starting point is 00:24:28 Well, as luck would have it in December of 1942, Anne heard that the Monte Carlo. The Monte Carlo. The Monte Carlo, a small exclusive nightclub, just a few blocks from her apartments who convenient. They were looking for chorus girls and dancers. Oh yeah. Don't we know? Anne is a dancer. She is. The work would be obviously a step down

Starting point is 00:24:46 from the glamorous Broadway stage and the tour that she had just been on in the past, but it was steady work. And the evening hours meant that she would have her days free to spend without. That's ideal. So through tenacity and the few connections that she did have left in the city

Starting point is 00:25:00 and managed to land the job as a dancing girl at the Montaic Harlow, which would pay her $50 a week. Look at her. Back then, that's pretty good income. Also, I love that her having to leave to take care of her ailing mother was like, yeah, sorry, you're just gonna lose your connections. Like, no one was willing to be like,

Starting point is 00:25:16 yeah, she's just taking care of her, like dying mother. Humans need to get better. Humans need to get better. And it's not the way all of us need to get better. That's such a, needs to get better. That's such a, that's so industry. You know what I mean?

Starting point is 00:25:28 And it's just so cold. It is. It's like, alright, you do have to realize people are humans. But people don't give a fuck. Nope. Now, working at the Monte Carlo was a far cry from the dreams of Stardom and had for herself. But as one of the premier nightclubs in New York,

Starting point is 00:25:42 I was gonna say that I was like the nightclub. It was. And of course, because it was, it attracted a good amount of stars from stage and screen. Oh yeah. So she was still within that circle, even though she wasn't quite one of them. Kind of just hanging on the fringes a little bit. But you were almost in there.

Starting point is 00:25:56 That's a perfect way to describe it. Now, it was during one of these late night floor shows that Anne copped the eye of a man called William Woodward Senior. He was a wealthy banker and racehorse enthusiast. I recognize that last name. Racehorse is just keep making an appearance in my story. They do. I love a racehorse. Yeah, I do. You're living in a place of racehorse. I really do, except I don't, I don't, I don't actually, I don't fucks with that, but we'll talk about it. But yeah, I feel like it's just part of high society. Oh, 100%.

Starting point is 00:26:25 Especially back then, when everybody's just like smoking cigars. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, of course. I love it. You're just holding a giant bagel right now and you were talking with your hands or you're like smoking cigars.

Starting point is 00:26:36 It's just like wiping your bagels. Eating bagels, that was great. That's, you know, fancy hot society stuff. No, home. Sanasiago bagel. Oh, I'll see you go. That's, fancy high society stuff. The home. Sanasiago bagel. Oh, I'll see I go. No, that's that's high society right there. It is high society.

Starting point is 00:26:49 So and and you just to Mr. Woodward was. Mr. Woodward. Mr. Woodward because she had read about him in the society pages which bring back the society pages, motherfuckers. I want to read them. William, he kept coming back at least several times to see him perform, she really caught his eye. And one night he asked her, hey, baby,

Starting point is 00:27:10 you wanna see one of my horses run? Come down to the racetrack with me. Is that easy? Is that easy? You know, you wanna see my race horse? Yes, I would think, probably. I think it's probably- That's deeply upsetting when you put it that way

Starting point is 00:27:25 It's deeply upsetting either way to be honest, but it's really upsetting the other way It's very upsetting when you really think hard about it. Yes, so don't Just what you're probably doing. Just romance romance And of course knew that woodward was married. Oh But so we're a lot of the men who bought her drinks in center jewelry. So she did not be asked in her to come see his fucking race horse if you are married.

Starting point is 00:27:50 So it's not a euphemistic way, not in a real way. Not a physical way. Oh, come on. No, keep your race horse to yourself. It's right. Keep it in its track. What is it? The fault stable.

Starting point is 00:28:02 Keep it in its stable. There you go. Stahl? I think you were correct. OK. I don't know the fault? Stable. Keep it in the stable. There you go. Stahl? I think you were correct. Okay. I don't know. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:28:10 I don't know. I don't know. Anyways. But the thing was a lot of the men who, you know, made advances on Ann or got her nice things, they were married. So she didn't see anything wrong with just going to the track to have a date. And I think that's something wrong. I think there is something wrong, definitely.

Starting point is 00:28:21 I decided to 2020. When she was like, let me have those nice things. Oh, definitely. When she was like, let me have those nice things. Oh man. So one afternoon in March 1941, Ann was visiting with her mother in her room at a New York hospital to celebrate Ethel's 45th birthday. Wow, which she's only 45. Yeah, only 45 at this point.

Starting point is 00:28:39 She had lived such a life that even I at this point, I was like, she's not like 70 something. I thought she was 70. you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought you thought didn't even really recognize Anne, it seemed. And after a brief visit, Ethel's doctor suggested to Anne that maybe she should go and come back when her mom was feeling a little better. So Anne was like, okay, and she made her way home and climbing up the stairs to her apartment, she heard the phone ringing,

Starting point is 00:29:15 and she ran to answer it before the caller hang up, or hung up, and it was a nurse from the New York hospital calling to tell her that Ethel had died peacefully 10 minutes earlier. After she had left.. After she had left. Right, after she had left. Like, she probably died while I was on a rai home. Oh.

Starting point is 00:29:31 Which like, I understand by that doctor thought that she was dead. She should rest, nobody could ever know. But it's like, oh, and it's also that, that's why it's like, don't even tell people to go home and rest, because you just don't know. Yeah, that's the thing. So on March 20th, and boarded a train back to Kansas

Starting point is 00:29:49 for her mother's funeral. The drab landscape and poverty of her hometown felt, it always felt suffocating to Anne, but this time specifically, it was just overwhelmingly suffocating. Oh, sure. And it wasn't that she didn't love her family, her aunts, and her cousins, and everything,

Starting point is 00:30:04 but being in their presence reminded her of where she had come from and where she desperately didn't love her family, her aunts, and her cousins and everything, but being in their presence reminded her of where she had come from and where she desperately didn't want to return. Ooh, this really is like a movie. It is, I know. Or like some kind of like mini-series. Honestly, man, and it will be. Oh, there you go.

Starting point is 00:30:17 But she ended up spending a total of 48 hours in Kansas. She went to the funeral, she gave her mother's ulogy, visited with family and friends the whole deal, but then she got the hell out of there. And before funeral, she gave her mother's uology, visited with family and friends the whole deal. But then she got the hell out of there. And before leaving, she asked her cousin Paul to keep an eye on Ethel's grief for her, make sure it was like neat and tidy all the time. 45, damn, I know. And Paul said, well, won't you be coming back in? Like are you coming back? And she said, I'll be back

Starting point is 00:30:40 soon. But that afternoon, she boarded a train for New York and she never ever came back to Kansas. Yeah, I could have told you that. There was nothing in Kansas for her and after that. And what a terrible left memory to have. Very, very mom. Exactly. You already pretty much hated this place so much and then that's what you have to go back for.

Starting point is 00:30:59 In her mom believed in her, and supported her and really was just like a cheerleaf for her. Yeah, exactly. And she should have had many, many years of that. Oh my God. I know. Her mom should have been able to see her success. But back in New York, Anne resumed her routine of performing at the Monte Carlo in the

Starting point is 00:31:18 evenings and auditioning during the day. And eventually she landed a recurring role as a nurse on an afternoon radio called Joyce Jordan, girl intern. I love that. And then all intern. Girl intern, not boy intern, girl intern. And that led to other roles on other radio programs like Lincoln Highway. Radio programs. You know, just tune into the radio. Just gather around the radio folks. Turn that up pop. I can't hear. So, intolerable team. Oh, intolerable team. That's adorable. That's adorable.

Starting point is 00:31:49 Now, in time, Anne's relationship with William Woodward senior there grew from this harmless crush to something more serious, which married Anne. Yeah, and he's a married high society man. Yeah, with the scandal over. The fact that this, exactly, you exactly, you were on the right track. The fact that this was getting a little more hot and heavy, threatened a serious scandal to the wealthy family

Starting point is 00:32:11 if anyone were to find out. And it was one thing for a man of woodward status, Tino, have an occasional delience with a show girl. I love that with that. I love that it's like, that shit happens. See it happens. Of course. Of course, guys are gonna fuck showgirls when they're married.

Starting point is 00:32:26 Have you quite a little affair with a showgirl? Don't actually give a shit about something. Don't be in public with it. It's like, can we stop? That's the thing. But an ongoing secret romance, it was something else entirely and it would not have been tolerated

Starting point is 00:32:39 by New York's high society. High society is a wild bitch. But it also definitely wouldn't have been tolerated by Woodward's wife, Elsie. Yeah, no, I'm with Elsie here. I also wouldn't tolerate that. Very tweet. But not wanting this is where shit is gonna get,

Starting point is 00:32:57 you're not even gonna be able to stay on track with this at this point, because it gets wildly fucked in here. Uh-oh, okay. I'm sorry. I-oh. Okay. I'm strapped in. I'm glad. Hold on to your butt.

Starting point is 00:33:08 So not wanting to give up his relationship with Anne, but knowing that the two couldn't carry on as they had been, would word senior devised a wild ass plan? Oh. Where Anne would make the acquaintance of and start a relationship with his son, Billy. I'm sorry. Why? You might ask. I didn't. I'm sorry, why? Why, you might ask? I didn't. I don't even want it.

Starting point is 00:33:27 What? One might ask why. Well, this would allow Anne and Woodward Senior to go on spending time together under the guise of a strictly platonic relationship between a father and his son's girlfriend. This is so fucked up. In what world is that gonna work, mother fucker?

Starting point is 00:33:43 You two are having an affair. And because you wanna keep having an affair, you have her date your son. You're gonna bring your son into this. And now you're gonna fuck your son's girlfriend? That's fucked. That's even weirder, my God. And you're-

Starting point is 00:33:56 Just have the straight up affair. That's the thing. Honestly, I'm much in the society papers, that's gonna look better. Exactly. You fucking your son's girlfriend. But they figured, he figured, I should say, that it wouldn't get into the society papers

Starting point is 00:34:10 that he was fucking his son's girlfriend because that would be behind closed doors because now she'd have an excuse to be in his home, I think, was the thought, you know? Of course, you know, the thought process. Which is like, oh, she can be around. We can still see each other. Oh yeah, so just fuck up your son's life

Starting point is 00:34:24 so that you can get your rocks off. That's good. That's the thing that I'm like, oh, she can be around. We can still see each other. Oh, yeah. So just fuck up your son's life so that you can get your rock sauce. That's good. That's the thing that I'm like, are you gonna let your son in on this? Or is he just gonna be allowed to potentially be heartbroken? Well, you just wait, my dear. Oh, boy. You just, oh, boy. For fucking some reason or another,

Starting point is 00:34:40 I don't know which one and agreed. Oh, which like, I don't know, I've never had an affair with a high society fan. Personally, I never checked that off my bingo card. But I could imagine that if I did, and he suggested, you know, like, my wife and everything, so just hang out with my son, I'd be like, are you, are you a looney dude?

Starting point is 00:35:00 Yeah, like, I lost it completely. I understand that there's a power dynamic here that is totally much embellished. Totally. Come on. But I'm like, she dances at the Bonnie Carlton. There's plenty of rich society, man.

Starting point is 00:35:13 Dear God. There's plenty of rich older guys that I'm sure you can have. That are not gonna ask you to date their son. I mean, she's beautiful. Yeah, gorgeous. She's tenacious. She's, you know, she's like a hard worker. She's got all she's checking all the boxes

Starting point is 00:35:27 Yeah, so it's like honey you can find someone better. You don't need this one You don't need this one that's already Taken take it and it's now wanting to you to date his son like that's just messed up on a whole That's when you go you know what this has been fun. This has been a great time I don't want to get you into trouble. I definitely don't wanna get your son wrapped up in this. So I'm gonna keep dancing and meet some other cool guys. I can see my regards, see you later.

Starting point is 00:35:52 Yeah, honestly. Like, but man. When Anna agreed it set into motion, a chain of events that would forever alter the lives of literally every single person involved in this family. I can imagine. All of them. Yeah, I didn't think this was going to go smooth. No, it doesn't.

Starting point is 00:36:07 But it goes way different, but I think you would imagine. Probably, because I'm not even wrapping my brain around it. Because I was like, oh, this is going to end in like, naravans. Drag out fight. Not really. No. I mean, it's horribly, but.

Starting point is 00:36:21 In a different way. Yeah. So in March of 1942, while Billy was home for a visit during his break from Harvard, Billy being from Harvard. Woodward son. But Billy will be the young Woodward. Yes, he is William Jr. But we are proud of him as Billy.

Starting point is 00:36:35 And I think I'm pretty sure they did too. That makes sense. So he was on a break from Harvard and his father asked him, do you have a regular girl which meant like, are you dating someone? You got a regular girl. Normal. like, are you dating someone? You got a regular girl. Normal. Like, are you dating someone, like, consistently? Not are you dating someone who are normal?

Starting point is 00:36:50 Not just someone regular. His son was like, no, Papa don't. And Billy Woodward's extremely limited experience with women was of particular concern to his father, mostly because it had become the source of rumors amongst his peers. And I think that was a whole other. I think Woodward Sr. thought he was killing two birds with one stone here.

Starting point is 00:37:10 Yeah, he was taking away that whole rumor mill there, and also getting his cake to. Exactly. And it's like, again, I ask, I'm always going to ask this, who the fuck cares that much about somebody's romantic life? High society. It's like his peers are all upset about his limited experience with women. What the fuck do you care? What does it have to do with you?

Starting point is 00:37:32 It doesn't matter. What are you about your own goddamn lawn? Why are you wearing a lawn? What are you talking about? Like damn. They were all bored. I think that's what it all comes down to. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:37:40 And bored and gossipy. Yeah, that's when shit pops off. Which I feel are bored with nothing to do. I love a good gossip, but don't be a bitch about it. And it's like, I don't care about things like that. No, I don't care about shit like this. Like, can you imagine worrying about like, who's somebody that comes up?

Starting point is 00:37:55 Who's somebody's dating or like, or not dating? Or if they haven't dated, you're like, why? Yeah, that's stupid. That's not my fucking business. Yeah. Like, rumor should be fun. They should see Shitty Pie that she brought to the potluck last week. Exactly, exactly.

Starting point is 00:38:07 That's kind of shit I want to talk about. Even consequential. Right. But the thing was, Billy was a really handsome guy. He came like we know from a respectable wealthy family. So as far as everybody saw it, he shouldn't have any trouble meeting women. But it seemed to money around him that he just wasn't interested in them. So that of course led many to speculate whether or not he was gay, which deeply troubled his parents because whole.

Starting point is 00:38:28 That's everybody's problem and everyone's business, so totally makes total sense. And the thing was, like many high society rumors, speculation about Billy Woodward's sexuality actually persisted long after his death. That's sad. It's unclear whether or not he was gay and it actually has no bearing on the story, so we're going to move on. Because who cares? Like everybody else should have, but regardless of his orientation, William Woodward senior suggested while he was home for break, Billy might look up and crawl. You know, you know, he said, I met her out at the Monte Carlo a few months earlier and, I don't know, I think why don't you take her for a date? She's cute. Yeah, he's like, you know,

Starting point is 00:39:03 I've never had enough hair with her for a while. She's cute. Yeah, he's like, you know, I've never had an affair with her for a while. So I can tell you, she's awesome. So yeah, yeah. I'm gonna treat her out. To be clear though, this was less of a suggestion than a command. Yeah. So Billy was like, okay, I will do that.

Starting point is 00:39:16 He's like, you will ask this girl out. He's like, already pop, cool. I don't know what my thing is with pop, but it just feels right. You're my pop. You're my pop. So a few nights later, Billy took Anne to a dinner at 21, which was a popular speakeasy turned restaurant on Christmas.

Starting point is 00:39:30 I love it. On West. On West. On West 52nd Street. Anne was on a diet, and Billy was quote unquote, too nervous to eat. Yes. Dinner. He guys eat up.

Starting point is 00:39:41 But they still ordered an extravagant meal in a bottle of champagne. Billy was obviously completely unaware of Anne's relationship with his father, so he didn't know anything about this strategic setup. Oh my God, this is so fucked. But Anne was well aware of the plan for her to date Billy and having to go through the motions, kind of made her impatient and short with Billy, which I'm like, honey. It's not his fault. He doesn't know.

Starting point is 00:40:04 He was a mom in this poor guy. short with Billy, which I'm like, honey. So I guess Paul, he doesn't know. And this poor guy. So a few glasses of champagne. It luckily did help soften her attitude. I guess luckily, I don't even know how I said that. But eventually she started to find his shy and experienced somewhat charming. Billy on the other hand, he didn't need any champagne

Starting point is 00:40:17 in order to enjoy Anne's company. He thought she was confident, forward, exciting. She was nothing like the society girls that his parents had steered him toward in the past. And he was like, damn, like, why did my dad set me up with you? You're awesome. Yeah, he's like, shit.

Starting point is 00:40:31 This is great. So what started as kind of a sham relationship orchestrated by William Woodward Sr. soon actually developed into something real. Oh. He did not see this coming. I was just gonna say, well, shit. Yeah, and that was a part of the plan.

Starting point is 00:40:44 And much to his chagrin you can imagine yeah Billy Like we said was instantly taken with Annie found her beautiful He loved her assertive personality. He thought she lived her life without reservation. It was great She for and for Anne. Excuse me Billy was an entry into high society and their Spectability and status that came with it and at the same time She also was kind of charmed by his affection and devotion to her. Ah, so one of, they're each getting things out of it.

Starting point is 00:41:12 One is a bit more self-centered than the other. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say, they're getting different things out of it, but you know, but you know, they like each other. They do. So the early days of their romance were spent on New York's finest restaurants, nightclubs, theaters, or with Ann just cooking meals for them at Billy's apartment.

Starting point is 00:41:28 They were literally dating. Yeah. Just like anybody else would have. Straight up dating. So the fantasy of Anzac Stravagan and Carefree relationship with Billy eventually collided with reality as you can imagine. Yeah. And that happened in August of 1942 when Billy invited her to the races in Saratoga, where

Starting point is 00:41:47 she was to, quote unquote, meet his parents and extended family. Oh, oh. I think she had already met one of his friends. That's kind of weird. Yeah. So when race day finally arrived, Billion and drove the 150 miles to Saratoga Springs in his packard, stopping for breakfast along the way. And stopping for breakfast made them late to meet William and LC,

Starting point is 00:42:07 which instantly got the day off on the wrong foot. You were not late to hustle-sizing function. Absolutely not. You can fuck show girls, but don't you dare be late. Exactly. So things didn't get much better when they finally made their way inside the clubhouse at the racetrack where they were surrounded

Starting point is 00:42:23 by some of the wealthiest people in the country. Elsie Woodward shook Ann's hand politely, but she was barely able to hide her disapproval. Yeah, I just feel for, I'm like, Elsie just having to shake her hand. Yeah, and she's on to her. I was going to say, I don't know if she knows or not, or you can always get a vibe. I'm like, she knew. That's tough. And she didn't, she felt like Anne seemed to disregard nearly

Starting point is 00:42:47 every convention of high society that LC had been raised in so helped her to her heart. Yeah, I was gonna say. So she, you know, when you're raised in it, you hold it pretty. Yeah. Hi. And William, senior when he was greeting Anne,

Starting point is 00:43:00 was like over the top and like very like, oh, hi, so nice to meet you for the first time ever oh my god never met you before in my life To meet you So yeah, I was like don't be all like uncool. Yeah, it's a cut to quote the countess But so else he's like so y'all met know, like, you guys should have real good job. And of course, people had been talking. Yeah, of course, you're not gonna get away with that stuff. You had a full load of air.

Starting point is 00:43:30 So the way he was acting basically effectively confirmed Elsie suspicions that they had indeed met before this. Oh man. Years later, she would tell her bridge friends, one look at Anne and I knew the whole story. Oh boy. So you don't wanna fuck with a lady like this. Eek.

Starting point is 00:43:45 To the Woodward family matriarch, Anne was a gold digging interloper who was trying to force her way into a world that one never welcomed her and two a world where El Seed didn't think she belonged. Damn. And that was exactly how she felt the moment she met her that day in Saratoga Springs

Starting point is 00:44:01 and it is precisely how she would treat Anne until the day she died. Now here's the thing. I understand she's got a vibe here, and she's like, I'm pretty sure you have met my husband before, and there's something here. So I would be like, you're an asshole too, in that sense? Yep.

Starting point is 00:44:16 But the whole, like, you don't belong here because you were raised in poverty. Is stupid. Is so dumb because also, I know that Ann is trying to climb the ladder here. Of course. Clearly, that was the way back then. There's just like, people do it now. Like, it's not changing.

Starting point is 00:44:31 But it's also like, it's not like she hasn't worked her tail off to get at least, I mean, she was paying our mother's medical bills up until the end. Like, she was really working her ass out. Absolutely. And it's just such a weird way to look at things to be like, because you were born in depoverty, you don't deserve to make it anywhere else. Even though you worked harder than I did. You're not worth to land here.

Starting point is 00:44:52 But they look at it as like you didn't work as hard as I did because you don't know all the interworkings of this world. Exactly. It's just a bizarre line of thinking and it's one that still exists. Yeah. So it's just so weird. It's just very exclusive. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:45:04 It's just so weird. It's just very exclusive. Yeah, it's just so arranged and bizarre. But the thing was, Elsie wasn't entirely wrong. Anne's relationship with both Woodward men. Yeah, I mean, that's where the black mark comes from. Exactly, and her relationship with senior and junior were a calculated attempt to climb that ladder into high society. So from Elsie's point of view, she's like,

Starting point is 00:45:23 not only did you try to use my husband, but now you're using my son. So like, maybe stop infiltrating my family. I can see, and I can see that frustration for sure. It's a mess. Yeah. But none of this matter to Billy, who absolutely ruffled an ansibility

Starting point is 00:45:36 to get under his mother's skin. He thought it was great. That's some high society rebellion right there. Truly. But regardless of how Billy felt about the impression and made on his mother and herself was and would remain deeply self-conscious around her future mother and law. Yeah, I'm sure. Which I might feel self-conscious too if I had, you know, slept with her husband. I'm not even gonna like, yeah, yeah, that's fucked up. You honestly shouldn't feel a little self-conscious

Starting point is 00:46:02 if you sleep with someone's husband. Definitely. And then date their son. And then date their son and have to be around them at family dinners. Yeah, that's just like a wild. I feel like that's pretty natural. That's cray, cray. Yeah. No, it seems that no matter what she did, though,

Starting point is 00:46:14 and always managed to transgress some unknown social convention of the elite. She didn't get it. She was too loud. She dressed inappropriately, according to them, smoked in public, and worst of all, as far as LC was concerned, she dressed inappropriately, according to them, smoked in public, and worst of all, as far as Elsie was concerned, she was vulgar in her empowered sexuality.

Starting point is 00:46:31 I mean, to me, you look at that part of it. And you're like, she sounds pretty cool. I would hang with her. Like, I would tell her to stop smoking, but like, you know, back then they didn't know. So like, you know, back then they were like, that's the cure to everything. You seem pretty awesome.

Starting point is 00:46:44 Yeah, they're then sleeping with the married, or we don't even know of sleeping, but they're like, that's the cure to everything. You seem pretty awesome. Other than the sleeping with the married, or we don't even know of sleeping, but they're like hanging out with the married man. Yeah, not great. But other than that, though, all those things that like pissed Elsea off, I'm like, nah, that makes her come to court. That makes her come to court.

Starting point is 00:46:56 But nevertheless, that race day was when Ann decided, quote, Billy was the main catch of their crowd. And she was determined that no matter what Elsea would were thought, she would become a proper society woman, no matter what it took. It's like, what an end of mechmake. So as Anne and Billy's relationship continued to develop into something serious, LC would for it hired a private detective to look into Anne's background. Damn.

Starting point is 00:47:21 Also a common theme about my story, slightly. Oh, yes. Now, she didn't really learn much about Anne's past in Kansas because Anne really hadn't revealed any clues to that. But the detective nonetheless confirmed LC suspicions that Anne had a rich sexual history that was hardly befitting for a woman of class. But what made LC truly irate was learning that Billy had given Anne a gold bracelet passed down from his grandmother.

Starting point is 00:47:47 Ooh. More than the affairs with multiple men or her past as a showgirl, this gifted family heirloom was the thing that caused Elsie to demand that her son stop seeing Anna immediately. Oh boy. Of course that demand only made Billy want to see Anne way more. That's a good way to get your kid to do something more, it's too forbidden. Exactly. It just drove the two of them closer together. His mother could yell and scream, she could threaten, disinheritance, all she want, and she very much did. Oh, damn. But Billy was undeterred, undeterred, and his all-consuming passion for Anne. Nothing that Elsie said was going to change that.

Starting point is 00:48:22 Damn. So in January of 1943, they arrived at Billy's apartment, where rather than lounging about in his pajamas, like he usually would be, he was dressed in his navy uniform. The US had just entered the war after the bombing of Pearl Harbor over a year earlier,

Starting point is 00:48:37 and the fighting had been really intensifying ever since, so it was going to require additional troops. Billy had graduated from Harvard a few weeks earlier, so now he was eligible for the draft, and he had got emergency orders to report for gunnery school in Washington immediately. So the idea of Billy leaving to fight and possibly even die in the war made Anne, of course, completely despondent because they're like fully in love at this point. Now, what started as a scheme to gain entry into high society had actually grown into something real, so the thought of losing him was something she couldn't bear and also something that

Starting point is 00:49:13 seemed pretty likely because of how bad this war was. But this was in a modeling job or a wealthy patron at the Monte Carlo. It wasn't a decision and could just overcome with sheer willpower and tenacity. She had done before., she had done before. Yeah, she had done before. As far as she was concerned though, there was only one thing to be done. She told Billy, and this is a quote,

Starting point is 00:49:31 marry me now or go away forever. This sounds like a movie. Marry me now or go away forever. Like it's that you could just see somebody overacting that. Marry me now would go away forever. No. Just like slamming the doors. Just like go.

Starting point is 00:49:48 That's wild. And also like, so not romantic. No, you just give them a straight up ultramanium. Like, day and airy me or go away forever. That's it. She's made only two options. Luckily, Billy knew that Anne could be stubborn and had a flare for the dramatic

Starting point is 00:50:05 dramatic. But he also sends that she did mean what she said. So he told her, I'm going to think about it while I'm away and I'll let you know. Oh no. He hit her with a maybe. He hit her with a all think about it. Yeah. Wow.

Starting point is 00:50:21 That's real. Mary, me now. I'll go away forever. I'll think about it. Let me think about it. I don't love. Wolf. Now that we've wrapped up 2023 and are ushering into the next, it's a perfect time to reflect on what true leap matters.

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Starting point is 00:51:49 than ever in the new year. As a listener, you can save 20% on your new system with a fast protect plan by visiting simplysafe.com slash morbid. Customize your system and just minutes at SimplySafe.com slash morbid. There's no safe, like Simply Safe. Being an actual royal is never about finding your happy ending, but the worst part is, if they step out of line or fall in love with the wrong person, it changes the course of history. I'm Aresha Skidmore Williams, and I'm Brooke Sifrin. We've been telling the stories of the rich and famous on the hit Wundery Show even the rich, and talking about the latest

Starting point is 00:52:24 celebrity news on Rich and Daily, we're going all over the world on our new show Even the Royals. We'll be diving headfirst into the lives of the world's kings, queens, and all the wannabes in their orbit throughout history. Think succession meets the crown meets real life. We're going to pull back the gilded curtain and show how royal status might be bright and shiny, but it comes at the expense of, well, everything else. Like your freedom, your privacy, and sometimes even your head.

Starting point is 00:52:52 Follow Even The Royals on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Even The Royals early and add free right now by joining Wondery Plus. So a few weeks after he left for Tacoma and called Billy at the base and was like, hey, really sorry for that old tomato. I would actually just be happy to live with you whether we're married or not. Wow, she really took that down a notch. She was like, I think I might have fucked up. I got upset. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:53:23 Billy responded by asking whether, and I was like, oh, he was like, I think I might have fucked up. So I got upset. Yeah. Billy responded by asking whether, and I was like, oh, he was like, is there someone in your family who I can ask for permission to marry you? And she's like, so you're saying this a chance? She's like, so you're trying to marry my ass, the same. Which like, you might want to know that if you're getting to the point where you're going to marry someone.

Starting point is 00:53:42 That's also the thing. Is there someone in your family? I should, do you have a family? The fact? I'd like to ask one of them if I can marry you. And it's like you open a store. It's like, you don't know if she has a family where you're gonna get married.

Starting point is 00:53:54 Like there was a discussion where you were like, what's your family like? Like, who's, you know, do you get along with your parents? Just going on. What's your name? What's your daddy's talk about? That's the thing. So terrified of Billy or anybody else,

Starting point is 00:54:05 especially in his circle, learning of her and povers, stopped bringing Kansas. That's because, oh no. Oh no, you can't be born into poverty. How do you? And lied and told Billy that her father was dead. She told him, I'm an orphan, just ask me. Woof.

Starting point is 00:54:19 So what that, she wasn't. She wasn't, she had dad. But I mean, he was, he was off somewhere. Yeah. I don't really know if you would have been able to track down. Yeah. So the announcement, they did get engaged. And the announcement of Billionance engagement came as a shock to William Sr., who initially

Starting point is 00:54:35 assumed that there was some sort of emergency, aka pregnancy. Oh, he thought she was like, oh, fuck. He's like, oh, shit. Elsie on the other hand was outraged. She told Billy, and this was a quote, it's a matter of money. That's what she's really after. This had been her position all along.

Starting point is 00:54:52 Although she wasn't entirely wrong, Billy was now 21 years old, and he was able to access his trust fund at $4,000 a month, which today would be like receiving $69,000 per month. Holy shit, out of a trust fund. Out of a trust fund. You're just like, ding, ding, ding.

Starting point is 00:55:10 So her threats really carried little weight with Billy at that point, because he has access to his own money. Yeah, so he's like, I mean, not really his own money, but you know, the money that was to tell the fact, right? To his trust. But she couldn't stop the wedding from going forward,

Starting point is 00:55:22 but she could stop the rest of the family from attending. Oh, no. And Elsie did just that. Oh, shit. She was like, that's fine. You wanna get married? We won't be there.

Starting point is 00:55:33 Elsie. Yeah, which I, Elsie's in her villainar right now. That's mean. Like I get, I get her, her distrust. Of course. I get that.

Starting point is 00:55:44 She, she sent, she had Anne's number. that her distrust. Of course. I got that. She sent. She had Anne's number. William there kind of gave up the ghost there. So nice to meet you. Oh my God, it's so nice to meet you, you're lovely. Oh my, wow, I hope you guys stay together. I'm sorry for the first time. This is the first time I've ever seen you.

Starting point is 00:55:59 I've never seen a woman before. I'll see the only woman I've ever seen. Wow, there's other women on the planet. What? I don't think. What's your name again? I forgot. So I understand that a woman before, I'll see the only woman I've ever seen. Wow, there's other women on the planet. What? I don't think. What's your name again? I forgot. So I understand that she's like, pretty sure you had something going with my husband

Starting point is 00:56:11 and now you're just going to marry my son. Like, I understand that. Yes. Vibre, not being great. Yes. And that is a level of petty, the most strive to achieve. I think she thought she was going to stop it by not going. Like, find them, we're not gonna go to your wedding.

Starting point is 00:56:30 I think she thought Billy was gonna be like, oh my God, okay, then I can't do this if you can't go for it. But he was like, okay, okay, okay. He was like, I don't really like him that much. So, and it sounds like regardless of how this all started, that Ann and Billy did love each other. Yeah, like at this point, I don't know this story,

Starting point is 00:56:50 which I'm sad to say. I mean, it's honestly just a matter of opinion, like based on what we know. Just seeing what we know. At this point, and it at least seems like they are enjoying each other's company. I mean, like we said, it would have been nice for them to know whether things about each other,

Starting point is 00:57:04 whether she had a family or not. Yeah, it would have been nice for them to know whether things about each other, whether she had a family or not. Yeah, that would have been good. Or maybe for him to know that conversation that had dated his father and this had all started us. Yeah, that would have been nice to have. That would have been pretty good. I don't know how I feel about this. It's all very reckless.

Starting point is 00:57:17 That's the thing. You think you feel one way and then you look at the facts again and you're like, fuck. Because I just talked myself through that and then I was like, I don't know. I have no idea how to feel. This is reckless. You will know how to feel even at the facts again and you're like, fuck, because I just talked myself through that and then I was like, I don't know. I have no idea how to feel. This is reckless. You will know how to feel even at the end. Yeah, and I get it, I'll see. Yeah, I get it.

Starting point is 00:57:32 But the week of March 8th, 1943, Ann arrived in Tacoma, Washington where Billy was stationed and where the wedding was to be held. The wedding was to be a small affair with just a few friends and Billy's father in attendance. Oh, wow. So in attendance. Oh wow.

Starting point is 00:57:45 So William went. Oh, of course he did. And bought her dress at a Seattle department store and on March 14th and Crowell married William Woodward Jr. at a Lutheran chapel into coma with a small reception that followed at the Tacoma Hotel. Wow. Just a small affair. A small affair.

Starting point is 00:58:02 After their wedding and the soul started a small affair. Small affair. After their wedding, and the soul started... Small affair. After their wedding, Ann and Billy moved into a five-bedroom tutor-style house overlooking Washington's, I think it's Puget Sound, which was furnished with the finest furniture and luxuries that money could buy. But what should have been a time of celebration and elation was almost immediately undermined by tension and conflict. Elsie refused to publish a marriage announcement in the New York Times, the paper of record,

Starting point is 00:58:31 signaling to her society friends exactly how she felt about the marriage. And to make matters worse, a few days after the wedding, Anne had casually mentioned that she had seen one of William Sr.'s, Johnston, run at the races before they admit. Oh. The comments seemed innocuous at the time, but when Billy pressed Anne for details, she was forced to explain that she knew his father

Starting point is 00:58:58 longer than he or virtually anyone else in the family had known for facts. Oh, no. You knew this was was gonna come forward. And swore to Billy that her relationship with his father had been totally innocent. But you're lying! And at the same time, he was still humiliated

Starting point is 00:59:14 by this revelation. And immediately recognized her mistake and told her grandmother, I really am the luckiest girl in the world to have gotten such a truly wonderful husband. Now I feel like it's up to me to make it work. Oh boy. Yeah, this is messy.

Starting point is 00:59:27 So from the house in Washington and quickly got to work, making the self-improvements that she felt were necessary to be a proper society woman. She planned menus and dinner parties, she researched antiques and facts about horse racing. She studied etiquette books. She just wanted to remake herself

Starting point is 00:59:43 into somebody that LC would welcome into the family. Oh, boy, I think that ship has sailed, girl. Oh, that ship is on the opposite coastline at the point. That ship has turned into a spaceship and it's gone out into orbit. Exactly. This is far away as humanly possible. The problem, however, was that Anne was too much

Starting point is 01:00:00 her mother's daughter to ever be considered a proper society woman. That's so sad. I know. She could certainly learn to be refined, poised, and cultured, but all the qualities that had so attracted Billy to her, her passion, sexuality, her bold personality, were too ingrained in her to be repressed in the way that was required for proper society woman. Yeah, you gotta be boring as fuck. Exactly.

Starting point is 01:00:23 Because she's a baby. And she's like, I can't do that. I'm not boring. required for proper society. Yeah, you gotta be boring as fuck. Exactly. Thank you so much, baby. And she's like, I can't do that. I'm not boring. And as a married woman, those qualities now seemed less attractive to Billy than they had in the past, which like fuck you. Yeah, that's not cool.

Starting point is 01:00:34 No, you can't decide that you love those things and then you get married and you're embarrassed. And you're like, now you need to stifle them all. Right. As long as you don't want her cheating on you and having a fair, so I understand that. No, of course not. You gotta trust that you love each other and trust on you and having affairs, I understand that. Of course not. You gotta trust that.

Starting point is 01:00:46 You love each other and trust each other and she can still be bold and. And she's trying. Yeah. She's trying to be what your world requires. Yeah. But he resented the way that she carried herself at dinner parties and the quote,

Starting point is 01:00:59 spell she cast on his friends in her dramatic declattage. What? So he was like, you have a sexy neckline and it makes me angry. Yellen about her fucking clavicle? I guess so. I think she wore low cut dresses a lot. Yeah, that's it's like, what the fuck?

Starting point is 01:01:15 And he's like, yeah, come on. It's like, you liked that about her. Yeah. And then she got to put her t-shirts away. She's like, it's very pooms. It's like she's screaming alone. My t-shirt is like, oh, nowhere. Like, I married you. That's the thing's screaming alone. My two years ago, nowhere. I got married, you.

Starting point is 01:01:26 That's a thing. You're the one who gets the whole deal. You get the whole deal. You just feel like, well, such a thing. It feels like it's a little jetty. It is jetty. That's a jetty. It's a little bait and switch.

Starting point is 01:01:38 So I'd be like, I love these things about you. And then I'm going to stop all of them. Right, because that's the thing. Prior to getting married, he found her assertiveness, her brazen sexuality, a refreshing change from the society girls that his mom was constantly pushing him towards. She was fun, she was exciting, she spoke her mind. And at the time, he found that all alluring.

Starting point is 01:01:57 But after the wedding, those qualities seem to be diminished by her intense desire to fit in with the crowd of New York's elite. He was like, no. He felt that her quote, eagerness for self-improvement betrayed exasperating insecurities. So in simple terms,

Starting point is 01:02:12 her desperation felt obvious, and it was embarrassing to Billy, who now often made fun of her in public and behind closed doors for her attempts to gain acceptance with his friends and family. What the fuck happened here? That really was like a bait and switch with him.

Starting point is 01:02:26 It's like, I thought you were nice. I think he was going through this rebellious phase where he was like, fuck my family. Like this is great. Fuck you mom. Yeah, literally like, you don't understand. It's not just a face. It's not just a face.

Starting point is 01:02:40 And then it really was in a phase and mom was like, this girl's not for you. And she knew that like this wasn't gonna work because you are who you are at the end of the day. Now he's flipping the switch. And now he realizes like fuck, this really isn't what I. Cause he was raised to want a certain kind of girl. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:02:57 And then he was like, no, that's not what I want. And then that's, he went for something completely opposite. It was like, well, I want the girl that I was raised to have. And it's like, but no, you can't have it. It doesn't work like that. But the thing was worse. Well, and toned her personality down to fit in, she still had an incredible sex appeal

Starting point is 01:03:14 that was never lost on the other men in the room. I mean, that's not her fault, which incited jealousy and Billy that hadn't shown itself prior to the marriage. So she is just getting toxic as fuck up in here. She's like, I'm sorry that I'm hot. And you're not. Talk that.

Starting point is 01:03:29 No, I'm not saying Billy wasn't hot there. No, he's actually beautiful. They're all beautiful. He's very handsome. Yeah, he's handsome, she's beautiful. Yeah. Everybody in this story is gorgeous. Yeah, they're all just beautiful.

Starting point is 01:03:38 But it's tragic as hell. So to cope with the growing tension between them and in Billy started drinking more heavily, which is, you know, that's a is, you know, always the best solution. That's a great solution. Always the best solution. You know what, I think everything's going to be fine now. Yeah, it's totally going to be fine.

Starting point is 01:03:52 He frequently criticized her for her drinking at home and in front of their friends, but when she and Billy weren't locked in some frustrating argument and spent most of her time trying to win over Elsie Woodward, which was just impossible. No. While they were still living in Washington, the two women exchanged polite correspondence, asking about the health of family members and exchanging pleasantries that were really nothing more

Starting point is 01:04:15 than transparent attempts to keep up appearances. Man, imagine watching those interactions at a party. Standing there with your dirty martini, just sitting there watching the camera. Talking to your neighbor like, these two girls fucking hate each other. They each other. Love it.

Starting point is 01:04:28 Well, hate it, because it's sad, but the drama of it all. But the drama here. So in hindsight, the small struggles, the personal digs and the ongoing rejections led to an explosive conclusion. Uh-oh. But she really thought that she was somebody at this point,

Starting point is 01:04:43 because of the money in the luxury, but really her heart is broken. Yeah, it's not of substance. And it's only going to get worse with this next incident that we were going to talk about. So on Thanksgiving morning, 1943, Billy was temporarily in charge on the USS Lyskum Bay, an aircraft carrier that was stationed in the South Pacific. He was in charge while the captain slept. Okay. To Billy, this opportunity felt like an enormous achievement and also a chance to prove his masculinity to those who criticized him or were spreading rumors behind his back because that was a common theme throughout his whole life. Of course. He had a wife at this point and people were still talking to him. Yeah. Now, around 5 a.m., a torpedo from an enemy you boat slammed into the side of the ship and that ripped open the hold and it caused a series of explosions from one end of the boat

Starting point is 01:05:30 to the other. For nearly half an hour this boat that they were on slowly sank as explosions just ripped the interior apart and flung the injured and dead from the boat to the water below. This was beyond tragedy. That's awful. Billy, who was still in charge at the time, was in a state of shock and could do little more than stare at the chaos as his own body was thrown around

Starting point is 01:05:54 by the repeated explosions. Luckily, Lieutenant Commander Oliver Aims stepped into action, grabbed Billy and dragged him into the safety of a lifeboat. If it weren't for Commander Oliver Ames, Billy most likely would have been among the two thirds on board to die that day. Oh my God. In just a short 30 minutes,

Starting point is 01:06:12 Billy's chance to prove himself as something more than a trusted trust fund kid had sunk to the bottom of the Pacific Ocean with nearly 550 officers and enlisted men. 550 died? Yeah, wow. Two thirds on board. The survivors were quickly rescued by a ship,

Starting point is 01:06:32 a nearby ship, and Billy was treated for minor burn injuries and shock. And a month later, he was awarded several purple ribbons, or excuse me, several ribbons and a purple heart, in a ceremony decorating him for his bravery and heroism. The ceremony only seemed to compound the shame that he felt for not only failing to avoid the attack by steering the ship away from the area, but also failing to show any type of leadership that could have maybe saved the lives of any number of his crewmates.

Starting point is 01:06:58 But he was going through all of this and like blaming himself for not doing what he thought was the right thing. Exactly. It was all survivor skill because in his defense, a report published many years later, actually found that the USS Lyscombe was a poorly designed ship that was not properly designed to safely carry the amount of ammunition on board at the time of the attack. So this really wasn't his fault. It was that bad design and poorly secured cargo rather than poorer and experienced leadership that was the main cause of the disaster. Oh jeez. But Billy wouldn't live to see that publication of their report and he carried the weight of those deaths with him

Starting point is 01:07:35 until the day he died. Oh that's awful. And it really, really changed time. Which I can't imagine. Of course it would. I can't even begin to fathom that. He was obviously suffering from some kind of PTSD. Absolutely. Which only pretty recently became part of a national discussion. And now we recognize the effects of combat and what it can do to people. But back then, for Billy and the countless soldiers coming home from all of those horrors

Starting point is 01:07:58 on the battlefields of World War II, there was this implicit expectation that they would just come home and settle back into domestic life. Yeah, just get back into your life. As though the realities hadn't been dramatically and horrifically interrupted. Yeah. Just like, come on, business as usual, let's go boys.

Starting point is 01:08:14 Yeah, and like we kind of still do that. Yeah, we do. We're just like, get back to work. Like I said, only recently are we starting talking about it and giving resources. Yeah. But for Billy, that meant returning to a life of partying and, you know, partying to excess because of the society life that he lived.

Starting point is 01:08:32 And it also must be strange. Like, I'm not, I haven't been in the military nor have I ever been in the military. But it's so regulated and routine. Yeah. And, you know, like strict that I feel like going back to a life where it's just Lucy Goosey. And you can do what you want. Whatever you want to do would almost, would be so jarring. It's almost how like when people get out of prison

Starting point is 01:08:55 after spending a long time in prison, how like they can't be in these big spaces. Yeah. And like, you become used to and comforted by that. Yeah, you need to realize it. Adjusting to a new environment. So different, I feel like that must have by that. Yeah, you need to realize it. Adjusting to a new environment. So different, I feel like that must have been tough. Yeah, definitely.

Starting point is 01:09:08 Even though it's like you're going back to partying and like luxury and shit. Like it sounds great, but I feel like psychologically I can't imagine what that feels. And then I'm sure all he was thinking was like, wow, I get to return to this like, well, these five people think men died. And what most people think is like this incredible life,

Starting point is 01:09:24 but like she's probably looking at it all from the outside. Yeah. I just, from the sense of it just drowning his sorrow. Yeah. It is great. It is great. It must have been horrific.

Starting point is 01:09:34 That's the thing. So after that disaster, he returned to the US and spent the remainder of the war years working as an aide to Admiral Patrick Belinger and Norfolk, Norfolk, the junior. I can't speak. Norfolk, Virginia and Norfolk, Norfolk Virginia. I can't speak. Norfolk Virginia. Norfolk Virginia. Naval office. The new position also meant a change of pace

Starting point is 01:09:51 for Anne who moved from their house into coma to the home of Woodward family friend Joe Hartford Douglas. Joe had known Billy almost all her life and it always been incredibly fond of him. But she found Anne to be cold at times and at times also an unfriendly presence in the house. Interesting. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:10:10 I think this is when Anne really starts to go through it too because they're both going through it in their marriage and then they're both going through these big personal things so like doubting who they are and where they come from and you know, all of it. And it didn't take long for Anne and Billy to fall back into their routine of arguments that ranged from petty sniping to full-on shouting matches. And somebody else's home, which it's like, come on, guys.

Starting point is 01:10:34 In many cases, the arguments were brought on intentionally by Billy, who always seemed to be trying to get a rise out of Ann for one reason or another, which inevitably led to a major disruption in the Douglas household. In later years, the tumult of their relationship would be mostly pinned on Anne, but Joe remained sympathetic when it came to Anne. Which I do feel like speaks volumes when she's like,

Starting point is 01:10:55 yeah, she wasn't the warmest person and like, she was kind of unfriendly. She was kind of unfriendly, but like I did feel bad for her. Yeah. She told friends years after Anne's death, she was a little girl who had not many opportunities in life. She was not the kind of calculating woman we've all seen around New

Starting point is 01:11:09 York. She was obviously crazy about Billy Woodward and dying to break into his world. Wow. That's just somebody like looking from the outside in. And who really has right there. Hold picture to a T. Yeah. And that's just tragic. That's all sad. So despite the constant arguing between Billy and Ann, on July 27th, 1944, Ann gave birth to their first son, William Woodward III. Billy was stationed in Philadelphia at the time, so Ann moved into Billy's parents' house in Manhattan,

Starting point is 01:11:37 where a staff of maids and domestic workers helped tend to the baby. Now that he was out of the Navy, William Woodward Senior started urging his son to take a position with the bank, but Billy had little interest in working and he really didn't have to. He's a trust fund kid. Yeah. Even though he had experienced significant trauma just a few years earlier and had all the

Starting point is 01:11:55 intense responsibilities of becoming a new parent, he seemed intent on recapturing the fun and excitement that he had had when he was young. He had to grow up, dude. Not Billy. He stayed up late drinking and carrying on with friends and then would sleep until about 11 a.m. most days. It's like, dude, you're a new father when you're doing. And this was all well and spent her days

Starting point is 01:12:16 carrying for their son intending to her duties as a society wife. He just spent his days getting drunk with his lifelong best friend, Grenville Bean Barker, who was probably the only person in Billy's life who did understand the traumas of World War II combat. So that is a very specific trauma, kind of trauma. And I think they were very much trauma-bonded.

Starting point is 01:12:36 Yeah. Of course, I understand that Billy was not getting help for the PTSD that he was suffering. But at the same time, it's like, you have to try to help your wife if you can. Yeah, at least try. You know, and it doesn't sound like he was really making any effort. So from time to time,

Starting point is 01:12:52 Ann would try to join them for lunch or drink, but she would always be told, sorry men only. And also gross. Like, I can understand he's going through PTSD and all that. I can't, I don't know what that's like. I can't even fathom it it so I will never speak of that.

Starting point is 01:13:07 And it's like, but and I can even understand that like becoming a new father during that is probably a whole different thing. Oh my God. But like the men only thing. And like before that, before the disaster, he was even being a dick to Anne and like kind of make him fun of her and like being this little boy.

Starting point is 01:13:24 Right. You know, it's like grow up. Right. Like that's a he's sounding very Peter Pan here. And it's like the sorry men only thing I'm like, sorry no. No, I can give you a lot here, but that's men only grow up. That's stupid. So although Billy refused to take up a formal position at his father's bank, he did find other ways to occupy his time other than just a drinking with Bean Barker, a baker. He sat on the board of directors for two large companies, Turner Halsey, which was a textiles company,

Starting point is 01:13:53 and United shoe machinery. And he also started taking an interest in the breeding of racehorses, which was a passion that he and his father shared together. And also one that would bring Billy a certain amount of fame for the number of highly successful racehorses bred by the family owned stable. And most ominously, he took an interest in guns and sports shooting. Very high society. Yes. Well, Billy carried on,

Starting point is 01:14:18 you know, pretty much a bachelor lifestyle and focused on raising her son and keeping up with the expectations of society women. Like any dedicated student, she studied the latest passions from Paris and Milan. She took allocution lessons. She continued her fruitless attempts to impress LC Woodward. She's still trying. All of it. She's really trying.

Starting point is 01:14:38 Billion and continue to be seen in public together at Salons and parties, thrown by all their equally wealthy friends, but behind the scenes their marriage was slowly crumbling. And perhaps sensing that her husband was slipping away and found a renewed interest in keeping her husband entertained. But by the end of 1946, his eye had begun to wander, seemingly searching for literally anybody other than Anne. Oh my god, nobody can just be content. No. Why bother getting married, everybody? Yeah. for literally anybody other than Anne. Oh my God, nobody can just be content.

Starting point is 01:15:05 No. Why bother getting married, everybody? Yeah. So in January 1947, Anne gave birth to the couple seconds on James amongst all this, but the birth of a second child did nothing to heal the rift between Anne and Billy. It usually doesn't. Yeah. By then, he had taken the position as the president of Hanover Bank, which occupied his

Starting point is 01:15:24 days. And in the evenings, he would drink with me or find another activity away from the house and away from Ann more often than not. And he would spend his weekends away from his entire family, usually with his mistress. Oh boy. Princess Marina Torlonia, I believe is it? How you say it? Uh, she is Brook Shields grandmother. Oh damn. Yeah. And she's a straight up princess. She's a whole last princess. A whole last princess.

Starting point is 01:15:49 A whole last princess. Wow. Yeah, he started having an affair with her more than a year earlier. She was an Italian socialite and Billy had met her at a party and just immediately was infatuated by her. Like Anne and her younger years, Marina was bold, exciting, and most importantly, to Billy, she was a woman of his class.

Starting point is 01:16:09 Okay, so you literally, like, basically teased that those traits out of her. Yup, and shamed them out of her. Yup. And now you're like, this woman has what you used to have. And it's like, bitch, she had those still, but you shamed her out of them. Because she was, she was never gonna belong.

Starting point is 01:16:27 No. Because she's a woman that is, she didn't have a title. She's from class. Right. Ooh, yeah. That's sad. It's really sad. Like I told you this whole story is just

Starting point is 01:16:37 just to be tragic. And also Princess Marina, you know he's married. Yeah, that's not cool, girl. Like they've been around all over the place. They got two kids. That's the thing. And if you get a chance, everybody knows everybody's, girl. Like, they've been around all over the place. They got two kids. That's the thing. I mean, it's high society.

Starting point is 01:16:46 Everybody knows everybody's fucking business. Yeah, princess Marina. So, Billy's affair with Marina was hardly a secret. Oh. And only made Anne try harder to please her husband. How humiliating. Oh, my God, I can't imagine. One evening late in 1946, they went to a party

Starting point is 01:17:00 at Joe Hartford Douglas's house, where they used to live. As the evening started winding down, Anne asked Billy to take her home, which he did be grudgingly, as he wanted to stay at the party. So he dropped her back at the hotel where they were staying, and she tried to entice him to stay, but he had every intention of returning back to the party. And when she tried to stop him at the door, allegedly, Billy raised his hand in a threatening manner, and Ann screamed at him, go ahead, hit me, but Billy dropped his hand side heavily and just went back to the Douglas's house. Wow. Violent scene was avoided that night, but the same could not be said for Subsequent

Starting point is 01:17:36 and usually drunk in fights where violence from one or the other would eventually become a common feature. They started getting violent with each other. And you have two kids. Yeah. And it's just like, even if you don't like... Yeah, I mean, like, you never... That's obviously... That's never okay. But it's like, my goodness. Get divorced. I think it's a lot less embarrassing than hitting each other. And in Billy's marriage continued, as we know,

Starting point is 01:17:58 to deteriorate in the years that followed. When he wasn't at the stables or on a weekend, get away with Princess Marina. He retreated to his work or spent evenings. You guessed it, drinking with bean. Jeez bean. Bean is something. But Anne, meanwhile, recommitted herself to keeping up appearances

Starting point is 01:18:14 and meeting the expectations of a New York socialite. And he's not worth it. She was trying, basically up until her dying day. Shortly after James was born, Anne found a large five-story town house on E 73rd Street in Manhattan and she convinced Billy to buy it. She filled the home with antique furniture, silk tapestries, crystals. She hoped that the house would be the perfect opportunity to show Elsie. Look, I can do it. I did it. I did it. This beautiful house I've put together.

Starting point is 01:18:41 And I decorated it like you would have. Yeah. But Elsie found Anne's taste more ghost than classic. And it was like, mm, did it wrong? Good thing you don't have to live there. Exactly. So lost in all the chaos of the extramarital affairs, society expectations, and drunken fights, were young William, aka Woody, and James,

Starting point is 01:18:59 who were usually left in the care of tutors, maids, and other domestic workers, while their parents' marriage just continued to spiral downwards. Oh, this is so gross. It's awful. To the public at large, Ann and Billy lived a charm typical life of the nation's wealthiest families, but everybody in their inner circle knew that their marriage was in shambles,

Starting point is 01:19:18 and people were worried. By 1955, after years of lies and drunken abuse to each other, they mostly seem to hate each other, and they really made no secret of it. In public, they sniped at each other, with Billy mocking Anne's desperate attempts to fit in with his friends and family, and Anne frequently now accusing him of having more interest in men than women. And in private, their fights, like I mentioned before, continue to escalate to violence. By summer of 1955, they started sleeping in separate bedrooms.

Starting point is 01:19:47 And Anne was now requiring several drinks and a couple of sacronel or secondals. Secondal or thorazine pills to get to sleep every night, which were basically just like tranquilizers. Several of the staff in the house also started to notice a dark turn in her personality. They thought that she had become erratic and at times paranoid, but nobody dared say anything to her, Billy, because that was a good way to lose your job.

Starting point is 01:20:13 But things were starting to get really, really bad. That fall when the children's governess, which is like a nanny, in Geboard, Sorensen, had implied that something might be wrong and fired her immediately and had the maid take over the care of the children. And it's like me, well, this lady just cares about your family. It's like something's a rye here. Exactly. Later that same nanny would tell the police she thought Anne was either, quote, sick or mentally ill because of the way that she was starting to treat Billy.

Starting point is 01:20:43 Oh, boy. Which I think she was at this point. Yeah, it sounds like this is just a fucking mess. And now, I don't, it's unclear to me whether the pills that she was taking to go to sleep were prescribed or not, but one, you're taking those interchangeably. Yeah. And then you're drinking all moment. And you're drinking heavily.

Starting point is 01:20:59 And it's like, yeah, this is just a recipe for disaster. Yeah, this is reckless and for like a mental break. Yeah. So for the previous several years, the family had been splitting their time between the townhouse on East 73rd Street and their vacation home in Oyster Bay, which is my favorite wine. And also a small town on the eastern edge of Long Island,

Starting point is 01:21:17 very popular with New York's elite, kind of like the Hamptons. Yeah. In the fall of 1950, yeah. I love these things. Yeah. Or like Westeg. Yeah. Oh, I love it. I love it. Yeah, or like West egg. Yeah, I love it. In the fall of 1955, though, a rash of break-ins

Starting point is 01:21:30 and petty burglaries in Oyster Bay had put the wealthy residents on edge, particularly Ann Woodward, whose alcohol and drug abuse had already caused her to become more paranoid and impulsive. Yeah. In response, she began sleeping with a loaded 12 gauge double barrel shotgun

Starting point is 01:21:46 beside her bed. Oh, okay. Okay. Like I said, they had an interest in shooting key and stuff like that. So they had guns that were intense like this. Damn. And the years since their marriage, both Anne and Billy, like I said, had taken an interest in big game hunting and they'd gone to India several times where they hunted large cats, which is absolutely horrible. That's gross. And as a result of their interest in hunting, both became very proficient with small and large guns. So Anne was confident that she could protect herself,

Starting point is 01:22:15 should anybody break into the home with this wild ass gun? I can shoot a giant wild animal who was just mining their own business, then you're probably pretty good shooting anything. Mm-hmm. So gross. I hate that stuff.

Starting point is 01:22:28 I hate that stuff so much. On the evening of October 28th, police were actually searching oyster bay after getting another call about a suspected prowler when they were tipped off by the night watchman at the cinema, which was actually on the Woodward's property, that the man on the grounds was supposedly carrying a shotgun. After a search of the property, police actually found no evidence ofward's property, that the man on the grounds was supposedly carrying a shotgun. After a search of the property, police actually found no evidence of the prowler, but the suggestion alone was enough to convince Anne

Starting point is 01:22:51 that there was real danger. Yeah, that would scare the crap out of me. Yeah, and you know, you have two kids, and yeah, just in general, you're gonna want, you're gonna want to protect your home. And also, by the way, with the hunting thing, I was talking about those big game hunters who go to, like, these countries,

Starting point is 01:23:04 I'm like, yeah, you're rough. to, like, these countries and like, shi- Yeah. No, it's like fuck you, exactly. It's dushous quiled. I love a good paris-social relationship with a celebrity who will probably never know my name. I mean, honestly, who knows? Don't count yourself out. But my favorite part about these fudes is how they're ignited by the tiniest things.

Starting point is 01:23:34 Jaina, I love you. Jai, Jain, too. Can't wait to see it. I accidentally laminated my brows to a munch. It starts small and then it gets so big. We honest now me, I'm fearful of you to this day. I don't know her! We all just have to admit, we're addicted. Everybody has opinions.

Starting point is 01:23:50 Everyone picks eyes. Leave Britney Spears alone right now! From Wondery, I'm Sydney Battle. And I'm Matt Bellasai. And this is this and tell. Where we unpack why we get so invested in these fears. From Wondry, I'm Sydney Battle, and I'm Matt Bellasai, and this is Dis and Tell Where we unpack why we get so invested in these feuds and whether or not our attention only makes the whole thing worse Follow Dis and Tell wherever you get your podcasts

Starting point is 01:24:24 So two nights later, Billion and attended a dinner party at the home of Wallace Simpson and Edward the... Hold on, five, eight. Seven, the eighth, yes. I was counting the one-one-one's-the-three. Two, it's like five, six. Um, and if you'll remember, they were in the Marguerite-Alley Bear story. Oh, shit!

Starting point is 01:24:42 Yes. Oh, okay. Or case, I should say, not story. So that's where they were. Just hanging out with royalty, essentially. Of course. And all anybody was talking about that night was the neighborhood prowler because fucking intense.

Starting point is 01:24:57 So throughout the evening, Billy made sure that everybody knew he was ready, should the prowler show up, and he flashed a pistol that had been holstered beneath his jacket. And also told several guests about the gun that she was keeping beside her bed. To several of the couples at the party,

Starting point is 01:25:11 Ann and Billy specifically seemed obsessed with the prowler. Everybody was worried about it and just like talking generally. Yeah. But they seemed to like bring it up in every single conversation that they could. Oh damn. And Ann, they thought, seemed more paranoid than anything,

Starting point is 01:25:26 and people viewed Billy as eager to prove his manly hood. So that's nice. That's nice. But the party wound down a little after midnight, and Anne and Billy both sufficiently drunk at that point said they're goodbyes and began the drive back home, where they retreated to their respective bedrooms. According to Anne, she hadn't been asleep long when she was awoken by the sound of footsteps

Starting point is 01:25:48 on the roof above her bedroom, followed shortly by a crash in the upstairs hallway, then the barking of the family dog. She had taken a sleeping pill as soon as they got home that night, so she was groggy as she got out of bed and reached for the shotgun in the chair nearby. Oh, no. She walked slowly to the door and when she opened it, she saw the shadow of a man in the hallway. And with the door half open, she raised the shotgun and fired into the dark, knocking the intruder to the floor. She slowly approached the body on the floor and it was immediately horrified to find that it was not

Starting point is 01:26:19 a prowler. It was the naked body of her husband. In a moment of panic and impulsive action, she had shot and killed Billy Woodward. Oh boy. So the investigation into the death of Billy Woodward was surprisingly short for someone of his wealth and status, but Anne's version of events was pretty much exactly what I described. She told the police and her initial interview,

Starting point is 01:26:40 and this was a quote, it was all done in one movement. It was so quick, I heard the noise open the door, and I fired. As far as the police at the scene could tell, and fired the shotgun from her bedroom doorway, the first shot had missed and struck the wall, but the second shot, quote, ricocheted off his bedroom door

Starting point is 01:26:57 and hit Billy, making superficial wounds on the right side of his face and neck. Oh, man. And then another piece of buckshot stuck him in the head, sending a small pellet into his brain. Holy shit. That blast knocked him backwards into the bedroom where he landed on his stomach and blood to death

Starting point is 01:27:13 within 10 minutes. Oh, my God. That's brutal. Brutal way to go. Once she realized what she had done and claimed that she ran downstairs and through the remaining ammunition into the back cabinet, quote,

Starting point is 01:27:24 fearing that if she had any ammunition at all, she would shoot herself because she was so upset and distraught at this point. As Nassau County Sheriff's deputies surveyed the scene at the Woodward House, there was little to contradict Anne's story. Nothing was missing. There was no sign of a break in. There was no sign of a struggle. In a press conference held later that morning, NASA County Chief of Detectives,

Starting point is 01:27:46 Stuvescent Pinal, I believe is the name. Wow, what a name. Quite a name. Told investigators that the sheriff's office would continue their investigation, but he expected the case was, quote, more likely to be accidental than homicide. Wow.

Starting point is 01:27:59 While police updated the press on the events in the Woodward House, the children had been taken to Manhattan to stay with William and Elsie, while Ann, who was supposedly in a state of severe shock and hysteria, was taken to a doctor's hospital on Park Avenue, where she was sedated.

Starting point is 01:28:15 Days later, Elsie Woodward hired Angaborne Soranson, whom Ann had recently fired to watch the boys. Wow. Yeah, a big fuck you. It was a big fuck you, but it was also like, the boys are used to this woman. That's the boys. Wow. Yeah, a big fuck you. It was a big fuck you, but it was also like, the boys are used to this woman. That's the thing.

Starting point is 01:28:29 And they're going through like a shit ton of trauma right now. And it was honestly stupid of Anne to fire. Yeah. This woman just for being like, I'm concerned about your family. Right. Like, you could have just told her, mind your business. Like, you didn't need to fire her. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 01:28:44 And it's like, your boys, you gotta think your kids. Absolutely. You're comfortable with her. If you kept her on, she must be good with your children. Right. And it's like, so LC's probably being like, I'm just gonna put, you know, you know, there was shade involved. But like, it was good to say.

Starting point is 01:28:57 And you know that part of it was like, they know this woman, this woman knows them. That's the thing. Why hire a stranger while they're going through this. Right. And like you said, they know hire a stranger while they're going through this? Right. And like you said, they know her. So they're going to be comfortable. But despite their own shock over the death of their only son, Elsie and William spring into action, taking control of the story and instructing those within their circle as

Starting point is 01:29:17 to how they should respond. The day after the shooting, the story was the headline in most metropolitan papers, but the story was surprisingly light on the details. Some articles focus more on Billy's ownership of the celebrated horse Nashua than they did on the fact that his wife had shot him to death. Yeah, that's pretty big. Other outlets, meanwhile, printed a carefully crafted

Starting point is 01:29:38 and highly suspect story about the Woodward story book romance. Oh, yeah. The LA Times claimed no one in top level society had more fun than Anne. Oh, I think many people did. According to the LA Times article, LC Woodward was quote, unable to go to Tacoma when Bill and Anne were married there. But she did everything after they arrived in New York to launch Anne socially. And she cherished her two little, their two little sons, which I believe part of that.

Starting point is 01:30:04 Yeah. But she definitely didn't try to walk through them socially. The report goes on to say having interviewed all the guests at the party that evening, as well as the Woodward's family and friends, police found no evidence of discord between the Woodwards and that they were in love. Oh.

Starting point is 01:30:19 You sure about that? You sure about that? I'm like everybody else after, like not talking to the LA Times, but talking amongst each other was like, wow, they fucking hated each other in the end. Yeah, I don't know about that. And now, while some news outlets were content to accept the obviously fabricated stories of a happy marriage and domestic bliss, others dug deeper into the story.

Starting point is 01:30:40 On November 1st, the Buffalo evening news included among their reporting, a brief news note on Anne's father, Jesse Crowell, whom she claimed was dead. After he was shown a photo of his daughter, he told the paper, it could very well be her. I used to hear about her sometimes in a roundabout way. I thought she married, I thought she was married to somebody out in California. Wow. It's like yikes. Wow.

Starting point is 01:31:03 But they're just embarrassing her at this point, like publicly. Yeah. I mean, she claimed he was dead. Wow. It's like yikes. Wow. But they're just embarrassing her at this point. Like publicly. Yeah. I mean, she claimed he was dead. Yeah. So I guess like, they're all kind of just sniping at each other at this point. Yeah, exactly. Other reports of order unsavory behavior soon followed, including quotes from the recently fired governess, uh, Ingeboard Sorensen there who told reporters, misword would sometimes get up in the middle of the night and pound on his door, screaming for him to open up. She was a very suspicious woman.

Starting point is 01:31:30 Oh, man. Like I said, I think in the end, they both just lost it. I mean, with all the stress and drinking and drugs and all everything, I think she was at a huge, she had a mental break. I definitely think so. It sounds like it. That's what it sounds like. And despite the Woodward family, the Woodward family's best efforts to control the story, rumors about Ann and Billy managed to find their way into the news.

Starting point is 01:31:55 Of course. While papers in and around New York City stuck with LC's version of the story, because they knew what was good for them, the press and other parts of the country published way more salacious details. The San Francisco Examiner wrote, for the last six years, the married life of Bill and Ann Woodward was marked with quarrels,

Starting point is 01:32:11 threats of divorce, long separation, and sudden reconciliation. And even worse, the papers were digging more and more into Anne's background in early life in Kansas, threatening to expose everything she had worked

Starting point is 01:32:23 to cover up into her adulthood. This is so bizarre. It's just what those are way to exist. It really is. It really is. As the press continued to spend the story every which way they could, and remained in a private room at the doctor's hospital, supposedly being treated for shock, but also to avoid uncomfortable questions from the press and police. While Ann Convalest, LC dispatched a team of lawyers and private investigators to clean up the mess. First and foremost, she wanted to know if there was any proof of Anne's guilt,

Starting point is 01:32:52 and if so, wanted to know could she be convicted if there were to be a trial. LC was mourning the loss of her son, but she was still a member of the New York's Old Guard aristocracy, and as such, her primary directive in the wake of the killing was to control the story and protect the reputation of her family. Yeah, I mean, that's what they're built to do. Literally, like, to protect reputation. That's all it is.

Starting point is 01:33:14 So a week after Billy's death, 22-year-old Paul Wurz, an occasional bricklayer and known felon, was arrested on prowling in burglary charges in Oyster Bay. So he was the guy that was the really well-proiler. The arrest cast Anne's claims in a new light causing many to wonder whether the arrest of an actual prowler exonerated her of any wrongdoing.

Starting point is 01:33:35 And in a suspicious and conveniently timed confession, Wertz admitted to being on the Woodward's property at the time of the shooting, which gave credence to Ann's story of shooting Billy only after she heard the sounds of a prouder. He told the detectives of hearing the shotgun blast that killed Billy. I slammed the door and ran like hell.

Starting point is 01:33:55 So he was saying I really was there, that way. Now, given the influence of old money and high society power on the political systems of small towns like Oyster Bay, it really shouldn't come as any surprise that Paul were seemed to have all the answers and details that would allow the detectives to wrap up that case immediately and very quickly. He actually only came forward to confess after he was visited by a detective who quote,

Starting point is 01:34:18 urge Tim Jashad any light he could on the shooting of William Woodward Jr. Only after that visit, he was prodded by his conscience into changing his story. Oh, you don't say. He had told a different story at first. Now two weeks after his confession a grand jury convened in Nassau County and in Nassau County Courthouse to determine whether Anne was at fault for her husband's death. In total 31 witnesses were called to testify, including nearly all the attendees of Wallace Simpson's party, those in the house at the time of the shooting, and of course, Paul Wertz. Among the more significant witnesses called was Dr. Jane Alden, a psychiatrist who

Starting point is 01:34:55 evaluated and just right after the shooting occurred. This doctor told the jury that, quote, the shooting was an accident based on Anne's unconscious impulse and had no center. She only leave to please Billy. I don't buy her shooting. Him is a conscious decision. I can see that. I see it.

Starting point is 01:35:12 Yeah. During the hearing, the assistant district attorney Edward Robinson was careful to remind the jury that the question before them was simple. Is there evidence of a homicide that is criminal homicide? And the answer was no. Yeah. he said. After listening to the testimony, the jury unanimously agreed with Robinson,

Starting point is 01:35:29 and they found no evidence of a crime having been committed by Anne. They did, however, find Paul Worth's guilty of burglary. And three months later, a judge sentenced him to 10 to 20 years in prison, after which his lawyer announced they would quote, seek a pardon and albony so that words can be deported without having his sentence,

Starting point is 01:35:46 without serving the sentence. So that was all big mess. Yeah. But although she'd been cleared of the murder of her husband and court, to say that Anne never paid a price for Billy's death would be wildly inaccurate. I can imagine.

Starting point is 01:35:59 She sequestered herself in that private room in a doctor's hospital in Manhattan while Elsie Woodward was pulling every string and leveraging every single connection she had, not only to force Anne out of the family, but to ensure that she took nothing with her when she left, including her two children. Oh, damn. Yeah. Within days of their father's death, both Woodward Boys were assigned a special guardian, Manhattan lawyer Harold Corbin. According to the family spokesperson, Williams Collins, Corbin was assigned as the boy's special guardian to protect their, quote, large financial interest in the estates of their father and grandfather.

Starting point is 01:36:32 In reality, that guardian was really put in place to keep the kids away from Anne, while Elsie came up with a more long-term strategy to deal with her unwanted daughter-in-law. Oh, boy. Yeah. Just days before the grand jury was to convene, Elsie called Anne to the Woodward House to discuss Billy's will. It seemed that he had made a handful of changes in 1948 during the height of his affair with Marina. Oh, no.

Starting point is 01:36:57 That affected Anne's inheritance. And it was important that the details be imparted to her before the trial, LC thought. Among the changes Anne was now to receive $2,500 in cash and quote, a lifetime income of one third of Billy's estate, which was far less than she had been expecting. But they're remaining two thirds would go to the children. But then LC made Anne a hideous proposition.

Starting point is 01:37:24 The Woodwards would not challenge her inheritance and they would forgive the $100,000 loan that they made to Anne for some additional property in Oyster Bay. And in exchange, she would not object to her boys being sent to the Leroy of boarding school in Switzerland. So they're like, we're not going to challenge your inheritance and we'll let that loan go. And we'll let that loan go, but in turn, we're not going to challenge your inheritance and we'll let that loan go. And we'll let that loan go. But in turn, you're going to really not have that way. Your children are being sent away and you're not really getting any of the money that

Starting point is 01:37:53 you're entitled to. Wow. In hindsight, and would obviously regret accepting LC's proposition at the time she felt like she didn't really have a choice. She was still young, but she had no practical marketable skills to speak of at this point. And so without the inheritance from Billy's estate, she would be destitute. She would at least challenge it if she didn't accept it. If she didn't accept it. It's true that she would have still had her children, but they wouldn't have been able to access the money from their father's estate for many years, meaning that not only she, but the boys would have

Starting point is 01:38:22 been destitute. Yeah, so she was trying to think what the best thing for them. Yeah, she did the best thing for her kids. And faced with those two terrible choices, she did what she thought was best. She believed that they would at least be taken care of materially, if not emotionally. But making matters worse, LC also suggested that Anne, quote, would be better off for at least four years if she made her home abroad. So she was like, get the fuck out of here. Oh, yeah.

Starting point is 01:38:49 Damn. And had little choice, but agreed to the terms. And by the end of the year, the boys were shipped off to Switzerland and she relocated to Europe. L.C. is powerful. She is very powerful. Like, damn.

Starting point is 01:39:00 She's very... I don't see this coming for L.C. especially with the name like L.C. I love the name L.C. I think it's adorable.ie. I love the name Elsie, I think it's adorable. I think that's what I think it is. I think it's adorable. I don't see Elsie sitting there, like just straight up, just being like, you're gonna move to Europe

Starting point is 01:39:16 and your boys are going to Switzerland and we're not gonna challenge the little amount that my son left you and his will find out. Exactly. Like, I don't see that of an Elsie. But I think she was like, you killed my son. Yeah. And like, I believe you did it on purpose. I think she's looking from the beginning

Starting point is 01:39:30 and she's going, I'm pretty sure you had an affair with my husband. Yup. And then that all set it all off. No, saying it's happening at all. Oh, absolutely not. But I'm saying that's why LC's being so ruthless as she's actually seeing this as validation. And at that end of the day, even had all of that not happened, she killed us. Yeah, you know, whether

Starting point is 01:39:51 intentional or not, she did. So she's so else is else is out for blood. Yeah, exactly. Now initially and plan to resist LC suggestion that she relocate herself, and instead continue her life in Manhattan as Mrs. William Woodward, Jr. But she underestimated LC's influence in New York. I think we all did. So she tried to stay in New York, and it seemed that everywhere she went,

Starting point is 01:40:18 people were sympathetic to her situation, but were unable to accommodate or unwilling to socialize with her, particularly her former friend, Charlie Nickerbacher, who had reported the details of Anne's parenting failures to the New York Times. Oh, no. Everyone turned on her. By 1956, she saw no reason to remain in New York

Starting point is 01:40:38 and she did leave the country. In the years and eventually decades, that followed Billy's death and floated around Europe and the United States becoming increasingly dependent on the fleeting, and this is a quote, the fleeting kindness of Latharios, Jigalos, Good Samaritans, Oddballs, and Conmen. Oh boy, this is very sad. It's awful. Her life was a shadow of what it once was. And most among New York society had forgotten all about Anne, but not Truban Capote, and he had an axe to grind. Oh, no.

Starting point is 01:41:08 Yeah, and you don't want to be on his axe that's getting around. I was just going to say, I don't want him having any axe to grind with me. No. So the following is all alleged and based on an account of Roseanne Montillo. She recalled that Capote had run into Ann Woodward in 1956, while she was out dining at a restaurant in St. Morets with her companion for the evening. A man named Clausevin Buleau.

Starting point is 01:41:33 His name might sound familiar because he tried to poison his wife allegedly. Oh, that guy. Yeah, you know. But Capote glared at Ann from his table, finding her being in the presence of a man so soon after her husband's death to be in very poor taste. Oh.

Starting point is 01:41:48 Eventually, Capote wandered over to the table and made a crude remark to which Anne responded by calling Capote a little Eftzler. Oh. Yeah. The exchange was very nasty, but brief and hardly and unfamiliar and so insult to Capote, but it was one that he would hold on to for three decades before getting some kind of payback. At the time of their unpleasant exchange

Starting point is 01:42:13 in St. Moritz and was an exiled socialite and Truman Capote was a promising young writer. In the years that followed, Anne's celebrity continued to decline while Capote's rose. Yeah, that's not great. Primarily through the publication of wildly popular novels like In Cold Blood, which we've talked about, and his widely covered society parties like the notorious black and white ball. By the mid 1970s, though, he had been in a year's long slump, and the novel that he had

Starting point is 01:42:41 been promising to his publisher, answered prayers, amounted to not really much more than a few chapters of high society gossip. In fact, Truman surprised nearly everybody when without permission from his editor, he actually published one of the stories from a forthcoming manuscript in the November issue of Esquire. Oh shit, yes.

Starting point is 01:43:00 You go get trouble for that. So the short story, La Cote Bask, I think is how you say it. It sounds really bad if you're American. It's fresh. It focuses on a gossipy conversation between two New York socialites over lunch during which they trade rumors and secrets about other ladies in their social circle

Starting point is 01:43:17 until they eventually get around to one of the more scandalous stories that of Anne Hopkins. Quote unquote. A once-poor social climber who sleeps and schemes her way into New York society before ultimately shooting her husband to death. Oh shit. Quote unquote claiming that she mistook him for an intruder.

Starting point is 01:43:34 Oh, shut the fuck up. Yeah. He just was like, boom, you was like, I'm not talking about you. Yeah. The characters in this story were thinly disguised portraying some actual society women at the time, including Gloria Vanderbilt. Oh, she did.

Starting point is 01:43:49 Big pally, I think it is, paley. Big paley, and of course, inward. Oh, no. Yeah. Yet, while many of the women in the story are portrayed in a somewhat unflattering light, the real target of his cutting wit was inward. While the other women in the story

Starting point is 01:44:06 are gossipy and unkind, quote unquote, Ann Hopkins is portrayed as a gold digging sexually promiscuous social climber and murderer, which effectively reignited the rumors and slander surrounding Billy Woodward's death. Shit. Now, perhaps it was coincidence, or maybe she somehow received an advanced readers copy of Capote's death. Shit. Now, perhaps it was coincidence, or maybe she somehow received an advanced reader's copy

Starting point is 01:44:28 of Capote's story. But on October 10th, 1975, just days before the story was published in Esquire and took her own life by ingesting cyanide. Oh. I had no idea that's how the send it. Yeah. Holy shit.

Starting point is 01:44:43 When the news of her death hit the papers, LC Woodward is reported as having said, well, that's how the sun did. Yeah, holy shit. When the news of her death hit the papers, LC Woodward is reported as having said, well, that's it. She shot my son and Truman murdered her, which obviously Truman did not murder her. That's what LC said. But LC said that. Well, that's that.

Starting point is 01:44:58 Yeah. She shot my son and Truman Cappodi murdered her. To say Truman Cappodi is responsible for the death of Ann, and many people have said it would be wrong and unfair, but it's not unreasonable to assume that after decades of heartbreak, mistreatment and disappointment, the news of the book coming out was the final disappointment that did probably send Ann over the edge.

Starting point is 01:45:20 Okay. Whether or not it was the main thing that contributed to her suicide or not is unknown, but the story was met with very hostile criticism for its cruelty and vulgarity, and it not only ended Capote's writing career, but also many of his close relationships with the women unflatteringly portrayed in the story. And I think that's what that new show is about. Exactly, which I want to watch that. Yeah, I'm very intrigued.

Starting point is 01:45:46 And I'm like, wow. Yeah. Now, the book that the story was to be included in answered prayers was actually never published. And in the years that followed, Capote's alcoholism and drug abuse worsened until he finally died of liver disease and drug intoxication on August 25, 1984.

Starting point is 01:46:04 Wow. Wow. Yeah. Unfortunately, though, the tragedy of the Woodward family did not end with the death of Ann Woodward. In 1976, after years of struggling with substance abuse and mental health issues, Ann and Billy's youngest son, James,

Starting point is 01:46:18 also died by suicide, when he threw himself from his hotel window. Oh, jeez. Both boys had struggled considerably in the wake of their father's death, but William, Woody Woodward, the third, managed to succeed. In the decades after his parents death,

Starting point is 01:46:34 death, excuse me, he became a successful journalist, he ran for political office. He actually even served as New York State's deputy superintendent of the banks. Wow. And then he just left the public eye to live a quiet life. Good for him. By all accounts, he managed to avoid the effects

Starting point is 01:46:50 of generational trauma that ended the lives of his three immediate family members, but then something went entirely wrong. No. On May 2, 1999, he too threw himself out the kitchen window of his 14th floor New York apartment, dying obviously as soon as he hit the ground. What the fuck? to threw himself out the kitchen window of his 14th floor New York apartment, dying obviously as soon as he hit the ground.

Starting point is 01:47:08 What the fuck? Isn't that so dark? Oh, that's so dark. Like both of their children died the same way. I throwing themselves from a building, like that's really horrifying. Oh, I feel that's really sad. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:47:20 No, they did mask. No, they did not ask. They did not ask the midst of all this bullshit. At all. And they should have just been left alone. Yeah, after all this. Now, obviously we'll never know whether the death of Billy Woodward truly was an accident

Starting point is 01:47:31 or something more nefarious. But Roseanne Montillo's 2022 book, Deliberate Cruelty, suggests that there was some truth to the rumors that Ann murdered Billy. According to Montillo, shortly before his death, Billy had traveled to Pittsburgh, Kansas to buy a small prop plane from a private seller, and he ran into somebody who recognized him as Ann's husband.

Starting point is 01:47:54 That individual, through that individual and a number of others, Billy learned that Ann's entire history, as she had explained it to him, was a lie, and he was eager to return to New York to confront his wife. Now, the revelation that she'd been so deeply untruthful would have been grounds not only to divorce Anne, but also to obtain sole custody of the kids and leave her with no financial resources. So simply put, according to this story, he was going to undo everything that Anne had worked so hard to achieve and deliver her back to undo everything that Anne had worked so hard to achieve and deliver her back to the thing

Starting point is 01:48:27 that she feared more than anything, a life of poverty and insignificance. So some people wonder, is that what happened? Is that why she shot him? Yeah, but we won't know. But when you strip away all the money, the jewelry and the privilege, what Anne really wanted was security

Starting point is 01:48:44 and to be accepted and valued by those around her. And she never really got that. No. And she really had no idea that the link she was willing to go to to achieve those things would have very wide and long repercussions that would end the lives of every single member of her immediate family. I am speechless at how horrifyingly that all ended up. What a tragic, everyone in that tragic tale. Three out of four by suicide and one from murder, possible murder, but like unintentional,

Starting point is 01:49:18 or intentional is, right. Wow. How fucked up. That's really, and it's so sad. Like that whole, and it's not all that glitters is gold. No, that shows you. You look at, it's the same thing that's looking at, like, social media or something.

Starting point is 01:49:37 We've seen it happen again and again. Everything looks hunky-dory. The grass is not always greener. I don't know what's happening behind closed doors. It's like damn. Isn't that so sad? When you live your life for, you know, material things and everybody else's opinions and everybody else's,

Starting point is 01:49:56 you know, judgment of you. Yep. Then, oh man. That's just like really sad all the way around. To most tragic story. Every logic story. Sad in this story. I know. From beginning to end. That's just like really sad all the way around. To most tragic story. Every logic story. In this story. I know.

Starting point is 01:50:06 From beginning to end. That's the thing. I want to look up when that, um, that Truman Capote show is coming out. Yeah, holy shit. That's a wild, wild story. A wild story. In one, I'd heard the names before,

Starting point is 01:50:20 but I'd never heard the whole story. I just never looked into it. I had heard the, like, you just said, I'd heard the names before. Yeah. But then I was like, wait, I want to look more into this. And Dave was like, oh, I know this story. Dave was like, girl, so Dave.

Starting point is 01:50:32 So Dave obviously helped, like, so much with, like, the research on this. And especially putting, like, the context, contextual things into. Yeah, exactly. And parts of it. And actually Dave was the one to tell us about the show that's coming out.

Starting point is 01:50:45 It's called Fude Capote versus the Swans. I'm trying to see when it comes out. If it hasn't already. I know. That's because I'm like, damn, what's the tone that's our watch on this? Seriously, it looks, because I think to me, the more is playing.

Starting point is 01:50:59 Yeah. And Woodward. Let me see. I think you're right. And I think Molly Ringwald, isn't it? She's playing one. It's a lot of heavy, heavy hitters. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:51:08 Tom Hollander is playing Truman Capote. Naomi Watts is playing Barbara Paley. Diane Lane is playing Slim Keith. Damn. Chloe Savini is going to be in it. Damn. I don't see anything about Demi, but I think you're right. Yeah, I think she's playing in Woodward.

Starting point is 01:51:23 January 31st. January 31st. January 31st. She's 24. Oh, the day after the Vanderpump rules. Wow. Oh, man. What a week. I just sounded really old there.

Starting point is 01:51:33 After the Vanderpump rules. After my programs are on. Wow. I'm excited. January 31st. It's only going to be eight episodes on Wednesdays. I love that. I love a mini series.

Starting point is 01:51:44 I do too. Especially on a scandaloso as this one. Yeah, and there's gonna be even more scandalous, because there's like a bunch of other women. Damn, Capote. For real. Thank you for telling what such a compelling and horrifying story. You're welcome so much and thanks today for helping me with it. And we hope that you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that all of this happens because oh my god that's so tragic. Just love people and accept them from who they are even if they don't come from your society. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to morbid, early, and ad-free on Amazon Music.

Starting point is 01:52:51 Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. Listeners, we have a new show that we think you're gonna freaking love. From Wondery and hosted by Laura Beale, the critically acclaimed Dr. Death is back with a new season. Dr. Death, Bad Magic, a story of miraculous cures, magic, and murder.

Starting point is 01:53:19 When a charismatic hot shot doctor announced revolutionary treatments for cancer and HIV, it seemed like the world had been given a miracle cure. Medical experts rushed to praise Dr. Serhaut Gumburu, a genius who is the co-founder of a cutting-edge biotech company. But when a team of private researchers dive into Serhaut's background, they begin to suspect the brilliant doctor is hiding a shocking secret. And when a man is found dead in the snow with his wrist shackled and bullet casing spreading the snowbank, Sir Hot would no

Starting point is 01:53:48 longer be known for world-changing treatments. He'd be known as a fraud and a key suspect in a grizzly murder. Follow Dr. Death Bad Magic on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Dr. Death Bad Magic early and add free right now by joining Wondery Plus. death bad magic early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

Morbid - Episode 529: Ann & Billy Woodward

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