Morbid - Episode 544: The Career Girl Murders (Part 1)

Episode Date: March 7, 2024

On August 28, 1963, Patricia Tolles returned home from work to find her New York City apartment ransacked, a bloody knife in the bathroom, and her roommates, Emily Hoffert and Janice Wylie, nowhere to be found. Patricia went to the lobby and called Janice’s father, Max Wylie, who came over immediately and searched the apartment, finding the bodies of his daughter and Hoffert in one of the bedrooms. Labeled by the press as the “Career Girl Murders,” the murders of Wylie and Hoffert shook the relatively quiet Upper East Side neighborhood and left many residents—particularly young women—feeling vulnerable and afraid. Thank you to the wondrous Dave White of Bring me the Axe Podcast for research!ReferencesAnderson, David. 1965. "Jury that convicted Whitmore to be questioned on race bias." New York Times, January 15: 19.Bigart, Homer. 1963. "Killing of 2 girls yields no clue; police question 500 in a month." New York Times, September 27: 1.Buckley, Thomas. 1964. "Youth is accused in Wylie slaying." New York Times, April 26: 1.Clark, Alfred E. 1963. "Girl got phone threats 10 days before murder." New York Times, August 30: 13.Gansberg, Martin. 1964. "East Side tenants sigh in relief at capture of slaying suspect." New York Times, April 27: 21.Johnson, Marilynn S. 2011. "The Career Girl Murders: Gender, Race, and Crime in 1960s New York." Women's Studies Quarerly (The Feminist Press at City University of New York) 244-261.Jones, Theodore. 1965. "Jury finds Robles guilty in Wylie-Hoffert killings." New York Times, December 2: 1.—. 1965. "Witness says Robles pondered murdering girls." New York Times, November 4: 40.Kihiss, Peter. 1964. "Brooklyn indicts 3-slaying suspect." New York Times, April 29: 48.Lefkowitz, Bernard, and Ken Gross. 1969. The Victims: The Wylie-Hoffert Murder Case and its Strange Aftermath. New York, NY: Putnam.National Registry of Exonerations. n.d. George Whitmore, Jr. Accessed January 17, 2024. https://www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration/Pages/casedetailpre1989.aspx?caseid=358.New York Times. 1963. "2 girls murdered in E. 88th St. flat." New York Times, August 29: 1.—. 1975. "Max Wylie, writer, murder victim's father, is suicide." New York Times, September 23: 24.—. 1946. "Suspect in slaying of 2 career girls found sane here." New York Times, October 17: 31.—. 1964. "Whitmore guilty of rape attempt in Brooklyn case." New York Times, November 19: 43.Roth, Jack. 1965. "Trial fading out in Wylie murder." New York Times, January 22: 17.The People of the State of New York, v. Richard Robles. 1970. 27 N.Y.2d 155 (Court of Appeals of the State of New York, September 24).Tolchin, Martin. 1964. "Victim describes Brooklyn attack." New York Times, November 13: 30.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Morbid early and add free. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. You're listening to a Morbid Network podcast. on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of The Last City right now, ad free on Wondery Plus. Get started with your free trial at Wondery.com slash plus. Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena. And I'm Ash. And this is Morbid, this is weirdos. And then just not comment on it and act like it was just a big LOL between us.

I forgot, even though we talked about it five seconds ago, I forgot. Quite frankly, quite frankly, quite literally seconds before the intro. Just seconds before. Quite frankly and quite literally seconds before the goddamn intro. You know, we're wily up in here.

We're wily up in here. It's crazy. This is one of those weeks where I don't fucking know what day it is. Yeah, it's been, you know, we've been working on, I think we mentioned in the last episode or maybe a couple episodes that we're like kind of renovating our studio space a little bit. It's so much better. And it was like real up in arms for a little while.

Like it just, it looked like a bomb went off in here and- Well, we had to be out of here for a little bit. Yeah, we couldn't be in here because they were doing some stuff. So we have been putting it back together just me, Ash and Mikey. Ash lightly. I don't really sign onto the manual labor part of things.

I don't know if you heard me go Ash and Mikey. Ash and Mikey. Ash and Mikey. I'm here for moral support, baby. Mikey and I have put it back together and Ash has pointed. Yeah. And I put a couple of frames together. That's true.

She put a couple of frames together. Oh, wait, no, fuck that. Oh, she put a shelf up. Two. Two shelves. Two shelves. I got a fucking splinter in the process and that's exactly why I don't do shit.

And I took the splinter out. She did. It was very impressive because it was, well actually I thought it was small, but you thought it was big. It was a pretty big splinter. But it was like a, it was like a, like it was thin.

Small. Yeah. That's the dimensions of my splinter. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, so it was just a little crazy in here. Like we were just trying to put things back together. Sorry if you have my stomach grumbling. I got you a bagel. Did you get a little whirr?

That was my stomach. Yeah. I don't know why. Did you eat your bagel? I did. I ate my bagel, but my stomach's like, not enough. Not enough. I don't know if she's grumbling this morning.

It's funny because all of her twists be second. Can I have some more? And I said, shh, not yet. I said, no bitch. Not yet, you can have some water. But yeah, moral of this whole very long, very kind of stupid story of mine is that it's been a little crazy in here and now it's finally almost completely done

and put together. So we're feeling very exhausted, but loopy. Very happy. Yeah, we painted a different color. I think, did we talk to you guys, but... But loopy. Very happy. Yeah, we painted a different color. I think, did we talk to you guys about this? It was red before, and that exhausted. Yeah, I think we might do.

Now it's blue, it's tranquil, it's safe. It's very tranquil in here. I love it. I look forward to being in here. Yes, it's such a difference. Previously, not so much. Yeah. But because of the color, not the company.

Exactly. And it's like, you know, it can, there's a lot going on at all times. So we need a tranquil color. Color. Color. Do it with me now. I'm not. Color. To chill everything out and make us feel good.

And we also painted the molding, which to me just says fucking cheek bitch. Yeah. When you paint the molding in a room, you know, that's what this episode is about now. We're just gonna talk home design. I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like,

I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm likeTV show with you. I love the you. Next, I'll just do an HGTV show. Yeah, manifest it. That's how that works. Wouldn't that be so much fun? It would be fun. Let's do it.

HGTV, are you listening? Let's go, girls. I bet they are. They might be. I bet HGTV is listening right now. As a whole, as a company. Well, you know what? Speaking of careers, this actually,

this segues pretty nicely into what we're gonna be talking about today. That was impressive. Because we're gonna be talking about the career girl murders. And I say it segues because this whole, this is a really horrific case. And it kind of ushered in this whole thought process

of like the career girl, meaning the girl coming out of the 1950s where like women were like, you know what? I don't have to get married. And like I don't have to get married right away. Like I can get my own thing going, become independent, kind of stand on my own two feet. And then I can decide if I want to get married later.

Like I'm a career girl. So it's like people, this whole like notion that society was putting in everyone's heads of like women, you have to either choose to, you know, like, you got to get married like right away, like out of school. That was all kind of going away. And then this happened and it like shook a lot of people because it made people think, well, wait a second.

Is this what's going to happen? Like all of a sudden it kind of like threw people backwards where it was like, oh, well, you know, women are vulnerable and see what happens when they strike out on their own kind of thing. And they kind of blamed it on that instead of just being like, well, no, some, you know, some assholes are assholes. Right. And we should make sure that we stop them from being assholes.

It's not women are vulnerable. It's people are depraved. Yeah, exactly. And it's like, let's concentrate on that and maybe stopping that first. So this takes place in New York City. New York. And it takes place in the early 60s.

This was on the afternoon of August 28th, 1963. Patricia Tolos returned home from work to her apartment in New York City. And she found it ransacked. It was nothing like she had left it that morning. And she also ended up, and we're gonna get into the details of this, don't worry. But she found a bloody knife in the bathroom.

And her roommates, Emily Hoffert and Janice Wiley were nowhere to be found initially. Okay. She, obviously she was young, like they were in their 20s, like they were in New York City, living together, the three of them. She came into this apartment, saw she was young, like they were in their 20s, like they were in New York city, living together the three of them. She came into this apartment, saw it ransacked, found like took a quick glance of like

what the fuck was going on. Didn't venture super far in because that's smart. I wouldn't. Yeah. Like she was like, I'm gonna call someone. Like somebody could still be here. So again, the horrific details are to follow. And we will find out that Emily Hoffert and Janice Wiley

were in that apartment. She just did not see them initially. But the murders of Emily Hoffert and Janice Wiley shine the light also on top. When it comes to like the career thing, we're gonna talk about that as well. But it also shined a light on how race and class can influence a police investigation and a jury

verdict, especially back then, and how justice can be delayed or diverted completely in the interest of efficiency and the illusion of safety, not actual safety, not actually taking bad people off the streets, just giving everyone the illusion that we caught the bad guy. That's so fucked up. And especially in the 60s, at this point, it was like, we're gonna catch a bad guy and we're gonna make you think that this is the perfect picture of what a bad guy is.

When in reality, the bad guy was something totally different. Of course, they were like, look, over there. Yeah, look at this, like everybody's fine, don't worry about it, which is really fucked up in this case too, in any case. But in this case too, because they weren't kind of being like, okay, we got the bad guy, we're gonna take him off the streets, everything's fine, everybody calm down, don't worry about it ladies, like you don't have to worry about getting murdered in your apartment anymore.

Leave your doors unlocked, it's fine. When in reality, they had not removed any of the dangers and they were putting everybody at risk. I don't see it, like how do you not think about that? Like what they were doing back then is saying, let's put somebody up for this and make it seem like everything is okay. How are you not thinking like, but everything's not okay? But there's still a bad guy out there who did this.

Like this guy is still prowling around. And they must have felt some sense of like, okay, like we did it, but it's like, you, that's so fake. Yeah. They just wanted the paths on the back and they wanted everyone to shut up about it. I can't imagine. So and also, and race plays a role in this as well. So they were just like, well, whatever.

Like fuck it. Yeah, whatever, we did it. And this is going to be a two-parter because there's a lot going on in this case and I think a whole part needs to be totally talking about how fucked up the investigation and the trial and who ends up actually coming forward as the person. That's a whole thing in and of itself, so it needs some attention paid to it. Now let's talk about the victims here. Janice Lam Wiley was born March 6, 1942 in Evanston, Illinois. She was one of two children.

Her parents were Max and Isabelle Wiley. Not long after she was born, the family relocated to Manhattan, New York, and Max was actually working as an advertising exec and eventually transitioned into television production. Most notably, he was the co-creator of The Flying None from 1967 to 1970. Oh, wow. So he was doing really well. I guess so.

And as the daughter of a very powerful and, you know, highly respected ad executive, Janice was raised in considerable privilege, obviously. She attended the finest schools, the finest summer camps, like received tutoring from very expensive tutors. She got everything she needed. Nice. And from an early age, it was apparent

that Janice was a very confident, very self-assured person as well. So it was all like, it seemed like she was raised with anything she needed and everything she could ever want. Right. But she really became like such a unique person in and of herself, which is really interesting because sometimes when you hear about like high society, kids, you know what I mean? Like they end up all just being very spoiled.

Spoiled and yeah, like having, yeah, exactly. Silver spoon kind of thing. Yeah. You know, and she didn't seem like that was who she was. She had what she needed on her fingertips and she utilized it to like project herself forward. Yeah, to kind of like just be her own person. That's great.

And I feel like that probably, it seems like she was raised well that way. You know, I mean, like it seems like they kind of put that into her as a person, which is nice. And as she got older, she would find herself all the time the center of attention. She was beautiful, like truly beautiful. And she was beautiful inside and out.

She loved hosting and attending parties. Like she was such a like girl of the time. Like, you know, like she just wanted to be out there everywhere meeting all kinds of people. She was said to have dated, quote, more than the average woman at the time. Oh, fuck off. And she had, and also Janice, dated both men and women.

Hell yeah. Which at the time, obviously. Very. And it also plays a little bit of a role at a time when they were investigating the investigations. I can only imagine. Investigating the investigation, I just said. Investigating the crime. I didn't even. Investigating the investigation, I just said. Investigating the crime.

I didn't even catch that. I caught it inside of myself, but she had this beautiful blonde hair. She had stunning what was described as startling green eyes. She's so pretty. I'm looking at a picture right now. And someone once described her as the kind of woman,

quote, who surrounded, overwhelmed you at first meeting. She has sensuality and animalism about her. Like, so she was just like, people were like, you met her, took one look at her, she opened her mouth and talked and you were just like, shot off your feet. She was just- Like an enigma. Yeah. And it was likely this confidence that allowed her to, the confidence that she was able to build through her entire life here, it allowed her to strike out on her own and make a career for herself as an independent woman. Yeah, that's great.

And again, this was actually pretty unusual for young women at the time. So when she was just out of college, she found work as a research assistant at Newsweek, where she and several other young women at the time spent their days clipping articles and pasting them into like huge reference books for journalists higher up in the magazine to look to use for their stories. And again, she didn't really need the income. She came from a lot of money. She did it because she wanted to do it.

She wanted to work and she wanted to make a name for herself. Good for her. And to Janice, the job at Newsweek was even more than an income because she really didn't need it. It was another opportunity for socialization. She loved being around people. According to journalist Bernard Letkowitz, I believe is how you say it,

quote, in a little more than five months working for Newsweek, Janice had become the office live wire. She relieved the tedium of routine with her raucous humor, with her unabashed theatricality, with her blunderbuss candor. Wow. Which like, that's the best sentence ever. Love.

Love. And Janice again, didn't need the income, but it also, the income did mean that she could prove to her father, especially that she could take care of herself. Nice. That she didn't need to rely on him. Like, Daddy, look at me. Yeah, and specifically, she wanted to be able to move out to her own apartment and take care of it, not worry about him having to pay for the rent.

She wanted to pay for the rent. She really wanted that independence. Yeah, and so she ended up sharing this apartment with two other women. So she was like, I know you can probably buy me a place and pay for it or help me buy my own place, but you know what? I'm going to find two friends. We're going to live together because I can afford this with my own shit. But she was like, hell yeah, Janice. That's really awesome.

Sometimes I look at my bank account and I'm like, who, who was here because where'd all the money go? And then I think to myself, oh, it's probably all those subscriptions that I have for absolutely no reason. Think about it. Between streaming services, fitness apps, delivery services, parenting apps, you know how many I have of those? It's endless, and I'm guilty of this. So I used RocketMoney to help me find out what subscriptions that I'm actually spending money on. And let me tell you, that was a very eye-opening process for me, myself, and me and I is the correct way to say that. And anyways, I had them cancel the ones that I didn't want anymore.

What is Rocket Money? You say, I say Rocket Money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions, it monitors your spending, and it helps you lower your bills. I can see all of my subscriptions in one place and if I see something that I don't want, I'm like, I can just cancel it with a tap, a literal tap. Just boom, gone. I never have to get on the phone with customer service. And to me, that's the biggest win in life because I hate talking on the phone. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has helped save its members an average of $720 a year with over $500 million in canceled subscriptions. Stop wasting money

on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash morbid. That's rocketmoney.com slash morbid, rocketmoney.com slash morbid. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. A lot of us spend our lives wishing that we had more time, but the question is, time for what?

If time was unlimited, how would you use it? The best way to squeeze that special thing into your schedule is to know what's important to you and how to make it a priority. Therapy, my friends, can help you find what matters to you so that you can do more of it. I think therapy is so beneficial. I was actually just talking about this on the episode. My anxiety is going cuckoo in the kabooku lately and I took a little break from therapy but I am back at it again in my white vans. So if I'm doing it, I think you should do it. We should all do it together. And if you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online. It's designed to be convenient. It's designed to be flexible and suited to your schedule. And all you have to do is fill out a brief

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That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com slash morbid. ["BetterHelp"] Now a few weeks after taking the job with Newsweek, Janice's friend Pat Tolas asked her to share an apartment with her on the Upper East Side. It was just a few blocks away from where Janice had actually grown up, so she was very familiar with the area. She knew because she was like a lifelong New Yorker at this point. Yeah. She knew that they definitely could have found a cheaper apartment somewhere else, not on the Upper East Side. But the Upper East Side is a nice area.

It's a, well, that's the thing. It's a very nice area. So she's like, I'm pretty sure I can, we could find something a little cheaper, but you know what? This neighborhood is actually really safe. Like I grew up here. So let's spend a little cheaper, but you know what? This neighborhood is actually really safe. Like I grew up here. So let's spend a little more money and we'll live in a safer place. Worth the cost kind of thing. That's so sad, like knowing what ends up happening. Right, it really is.

Because that extra money bought her some kind of peace of mind. Exactly. You would think, you know? Yeah, exactly. So because of the added safety kind of situation, she agreed happily to move into the apartment, 3C at 57 East 88th Street. And it was like a very highly managed complex

and doctors, dentists, other professionals were living in there. So it was like a very like, they felt safe. It was a well to do apartment building. And they were paying $208 per month on rent. And remember that was expensive. Honey. That was a different time.

Honey, could you imagine? It was a different time. Now, it was here that Janice met Emily Hoffert, who was a friend and former college roommate of Pat's, not Janice's. Oh, okay. Who was looking for a place to stay just for like temporarily for a short time

because she was trying to work out like a longer term plan for herself. She just needed somewhere to kind of take a beat. Yeah. And Emily grew up in Adina, Minnesota. I hope I'm saying that right. A suburb just outside Minneapolis. And after graduating from high school,

she ended up going out East to pursue a teaching degree at Smith College and after a year of graduate courses at Tufts University Fuck these were brilliant women really and a couple months teaching at a private Progressive high school in Newton, Massachusetts Newton I used to work in Newton which is in case you were wondering a suburb with Boston. Yeah Emily decided that New England wasn't right for her, which I was like, okay, Emily. All right, that's fine. Emily?

That's fine. You know, she was in New York early. Yeah, two very different places. And in the fall of 1963, she relocated to New York where she just kind of like went into a few short-term rentals with friends, just trying to look for work, figuring out what you wanted to do next.

And after bouncing from shared living arrangements, like one to the other, Emily's friend Pat Tolis was like, hey, come stay with me in my roommate Janice for a little while, until you find something more permanent. So Emily was like, that's amazing. Thank you so much.

So in late July, 1964, she moved in with Pat and Janice. So as far as roommates went, Emily Hofford could not have been more different than Janice. Like they were very different people. Yeah. But they got along. Like this wasn't to say they like, you know, had it or anything. So Janice, like we said, was very outgoing, very social, like just everywhere always. And Emily was like much more quiet, reserved, shy. Janice was this tall, like bombshell blonde, like by, you know, by social standards of the time, very conventionally attractive.

Well, Emily was, and this like upset me because look up these two women. They're both beautiful. But Emily was described as basically plain. And I was like, I think she was beautiful. I don't think she was plain at all. Yeah, like, and she was like five foot three, dark brunette hair, like she was described

as having a very pale complexion, which I was like, easy everyone. Yeah, honestly. Cause she's beautiful, okay. And she had glasses, which is very like the she's all that. Yes. Of the fifties. It's And she had glasses, which is very like the she's all that of the 50s. It's like she had glasses. So she wasn't as like bombshell as anybody else.

Hey, show us the pretty prints. To this I say like fuck beauty standards because they were both gorgeous. They were both just very uniquely gorgeous people in their own way. I agree, 100%. Both beautiful, both smart, both capable. Just want to put that out there because a

lot of times Emily gets put down as like plain, she had glasses and it's like, okay. Like they're both beautiful. Gotta grip everybody. But again too, Emily was friendly, sweet, very smart. Like just like Janice, they were both and that's why they got along. Like they, it seems like they appreciated the differences in each other. Yeah. Like I think Emily kind of like looked at Janice, they were both, and that's why they got along. Like they, it seems like they appreciated the differences in each other. Like I think Emily kind of like looked at Janice and was like, fucking Janice. Like that's that crazy lady.

And it's like, and Janice was like, here's my like very reliable, like wonderful friend, Emily. You know, like they just, it worked. And Emily's personality for how sweet she was and friendly and like very capable, it helped her in her professional life because she was an elementary school teacher. Oh, and in fact, their professional pursuits were probably like the biggest thing that they had in common together, that they were both very driven. They had both intentionally put off any

serious romantic relationships or marriage to build their own careers for themselves, something that the press would make a great deal about after their deaths, when in reality, these were just two driven young women. That's really as far as it went. Now, despite their differences in personality, like I said, they got along very well. But again, Emily, this was temporary for her.

She never intended to stay at 57 East 88th Street for very long, which makes this even more horrific. Yeah, tragic. Now, according to her friend, Clark Montgomery, Emily had quote, a fairly clear list of priorities, get a job teaching, preferably in a suburban school system, move at the end of August into an apartment on Park Avenue and 37th Street with two Smith classmates

and save enough money for a trip to Europe next summer. So she was like, let's go. Like doing it. While her goals were ambitious, Emily was committed. And by the end of August, she had begun packing what few belongings she had at this apartment. And she was gonna be moving, she was starting to move them to Park Avenue.

So she had already. She literally started the process. She was starting the process when this happened. On the morning of August 28th, Emily had gone by the apartment to pack up the last of her belongings and say goodbye to her friends. Oh my God.

Completely unaware that this would be the last time she spoke to anyone. Wow. Which makes this even more horrific. Now, just as Janice, Emily and Pat were kind of establishing their independence and starting out on their professional paths Like I was talking about before the nation as a whole was undergoing a kind of social identity crisis with regard to race gender Sexuality, you know, this was a time of like immense like what the fuck is just lots and lots of change Everybody figuring out that like we don't all fit into this box.

Yeah, it doesn't all have to go like leave it to be your way. Exactly, coming out of the 50s being like what the fuck was that? Right. Like, you know. So the civil rights and feminist movements sometimes referred to as the women's movement were gaining traction, very much so in urban areas

and they were directly challenging those attitudes that we were just talking about, and the long held beliefs about what was appropriate and acceptable in social spaces. People were really striking out in different directions. For women, especially younger women, the idea of marrying young and immediately starting a family was no longer looking like a super attractive option.

Walt, Walt. Some people did, that's the beauty of this movement. It was like, do what's right for you. As if you did think this is what I want to do. I want to get married. I want to have children. I want to be a homemaker. I want to be there.

I want to cook dinner for my family. I don't want to go out and do anything else. Like I want to do this. Then hell yeah. It was all about what was empowering to you as a woman. But if you don't want to do that, then hell yeah, queen. You're both queens. No matter what you choose to do.

You both get to choose what you want to do. And that's the keyword, the choice. You get to choose. And whatever you choose and you are happy with it and you feel successful and you feel productive, fuck yeah, queen. That's the whole point. Whatever you want to do, nothing is the wrong choice here.

But for women, that idea of marrying younger and all that, that was becoming less of like the, you have to do this at this point. And for, and many young women like Janice and Emily were, like, you know what, I'm gonna put it off for a little while and I'm gonna work on this. And according to women's studies scholar, Marilyn Johnson, this quote produced a panic about career girls

and crime that reinforced notions of women's vulnerability at a time when young women were enjoying greater autonomy and visibility. Now for the better part of the first half of the 20th century, the crime rate in New York City had actually remained relatively low, which kind of made everybody feel a little safe

throughout the city. Like nothing's really happening. So why wouldn't I feel safe? But by mid-century, the murder rate had been slowly rising, not a boom, but slowly rising. It went from four homicides per 100,000 residents in the early 1950s to 7.6 per 100,000 in the early 1960s. Doesn't sound like a lot, but it's a jump. And it's a difference. in the 1950s to 7.6 per 100,000 in the early 1960s.

Doesn't sound like a lot, but it's a jump. And it's a difference. So that has to be looked at. And again, notable uptick in the grand scheme of things in violent crime. And even despite this, Janice felt really comfortable living in the neighborhood she'd grown up in. So she was like, I've grown up here.

And she told her roommates like, don't worry, nothing happens here. Like I grew up here. I know this place like the back of my hand. She's like, nothing ever happens here. Oh, that's awful. You know, like why wouldn't you feel safe? Like that's the thing, right?

Now on the morning of August 28th, Pat Tolos was rushing to get ready for work. Well, 21 year old Janice slept in and 23 year old Emily was in the kitchen making coffee. Now after finishing an orange and drinking the last of the coffee, Pat rinsed the cup, took the trash out to the garbage chute, listened for the click of the automatic bolt that would lock the door behind her.

And she heard it and was on her way. And Emily followed Pat's exit a short time later. And after loading a few items in the car that she was actually borrowing from her roommate sister, she drove the short distance to Ann Rosenberg's apartment in Riverside to return the car. Ann Rosenberg was who she was borrowing the car from. So she was going back to the apartment to drop it off.

And apparently like they kind of just like sat with each other, Emily and Anne had a cup of coffee and then they ended up going there, respective ways. Sure. Now, Pat was at her desk at the Time Life Company when her phone rang a little afternoon and it was Janice's mother. And Janice's mother was calling to ask

whether Pat had heard from Janice that morning because she said someone from Newsweek had called to ask where Janice was and why she hadn't come to work that day. Oh no. As far as Pat knew, Janice was still asleep when she left the apartment that morning, but she remembered, she was like, you know what?

She did mention that she was maybe gonna travel down to a march on Washington that was happening. So she was like, you know what? Maybe she ended up doing that. I don't know if she called the job. I don't know. Maybe she got caught up there. Yeah, like who knows, but she didn't really tell anyone else about that.

Like I think I'm the only one she mentioned it to. So she was like, you know what, maybe that's where she's gone. But whatever the case, Janice would have definitely left a note. She was like, so I'll, I'm sure she left something about it. And it doesn't sound like she was the type to no call, no show. No, she really wasn't. She wasn't irresponsible. So Pat promised to call Mrs. Wiley as soon as she got home. She was like, I'm sure I'll find a note when I get there and I'll let you know.

So she was a little concerned. Like she was like, it was just like nothing out right, but she was like, something was a little off here. And so Pat called one of Emily's new roommates to see if Emily had arrived at the new apartment yet. Cause she was like, I just want to make sure everybody's good. Yeah. And the girl told Pat she hadn't seen Emily at all that day.

So she was concerned, but she said she wasn't yet alarmed at this point, but she was like, huh, like, That makes this weirder. Something's off, like something's a little off. But Pat went about her day as normal because she was like, you know what? I'll, we'll figure this out later. Like I'm sure there wherever they need to be. And she got home around 6 30 PM.

And when she reached the front door of their third floor apartment, remember, it's on the third floor, uh, Pat unlocked the door, which was still locked. Walked in. Nothing seemed unusual when she first walked through the door, but when she reached the kitchen, the service door that led out to the garbage shoot the one that she heard click behind her Yes, that was a jar Huh, even though again she had heard it lock when she left for work So things were becoming even more alarming when she reached the bedroom she shared with Janice. She found it in shambles

Oh, no, like someone had torn through that room wildly. Clothes, shoes, papers, everything was scattered around the room in two suitcases, which were always stored on a shelf in the closet. They were never taken out unless they were going somewhere. Were open on the bed. Huh, like there's no way reason they would have been there. And on the other side of the room,

the drawers of both dressers had been pulled out and all the contents were scattered all over the floor. And that must have been frightening no matter what, but then you think you're seeing all of your personal belonging scattered. That had been thrown about. What? Yep.

There were hair curlers, half empty packs of cigarettes and a pile of pennies on the floor too. Now, she was like, we've definitely been burglarized, so that's terrifying. So she left the room and didn't notice the heap of sheets lying just on one side of the bed. Okay. Made her way into the bigger of the apartments

to bathrooms. The light was on in the bathroom when she went in there, which again was weird. And Pat immediately noticed that there was a large 12 inch carving knife just sitting on the edge of the sink. Oh my God. And so she's looking at the knife

and she's like, why the fuck is that in the bathroom? And then she notices that there are streaks of blood on the handle, just on the handle. Like somebody had rinsed the blade. And was like, oh no. And then she thought, she said her immediate thought was, oh no, Janice has slashed her wrists.

Which like, I'm not sure why that would, maybe that was just like, what else could have, I don't know what's happening here. Cause she said, she was just panicked. Like this is panic. And in that moment, nothing made sense to her. So she was like, that didn't make sense to me, but it was the, I don't know what else she thinks.

Like I'm just freaking out. Cause he, she didn't think Emily, because she thought Emily left, like I know Emily left the apartment. Janice was the only one here. She was sleeping late. Right. And then when she didn't show up to work,

she was like, oh my, like what happened? Like did something, yeah. So again, nothing made sense. So she was like, I gotta call someone for help. I don't know what's happening. And I gotta get the fuck off here. So she was like, I gotta call someone for help. I don't know what's happening. And I gotta get the fuck out of here. So she was like, I have to get out of here. So out she ran into the hall

and she was trying to find somebody out there, but she found an empty hallway. So she ran down to the lobby and from a pay phone, she called her boyfriend. Again, she's very stressed out. She doesn't know what to do. He agreed to come over immediately. She was never able to remember exactly

how the next hour unfolded. She was like, it was so panicked that I didn't know what to do. But she was like, I know that I called the police. I just don't know if it was the second phone call I made, the first or the third, I don't know. She called the police and then she placed a call to Janice's parents.

So she was like, I don't know what order I did this in, but I called the mom. I just called the mom, I needed to call. I called everyone. And when Mrs. Wiley answered, she asked to speak to Max instead. And she said, I wanted to speak to you so as to not alarm Mrs. Wiley.

Now Pat told Janice's father before explaining that she'd returned home to find no note from Janice. And it appeared that someone had ransacked their apartment. Like, I don't know what's going on here. And she's like, I don't know where Janice and it appeared that someone had ransacked their apartment. Right. Like, I don't know what's going on here. She's like, I don't know where Janice is and I did not find a note. If you're listening to this podcast, then chances are good, you are a fan of the strange dark and mysterious. And if that's true, then you are good, you are a fan of The Strange, Dark, and Mysterious.

And if that's true, then you're in luck. Because once again, Mr. Ball and Podcast, Strange, Dark, and Mysterious stories is available everywhere you get your podcasts. Each week on The Mr. Ball and Podcast, you'll hear new stories about inexplicable encounters, shocking disappearances, true crime cases, and everything in between. Like our recent episode titled White Dust. After a middle-aged couple failed to answer their daughter's messages and calls, the daughter drives the few hours to her parents' house to check on them.

But after arriving and seeing both her parents' cars in the driveway, the daughter gets an uneasy feeling and just can't stomach going inside. To hear the rest of that story and hear hundreds more stories like it, follow Mr. Ballin podcast on Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon Music. Now, living just a few blocks away, Janice's parents, because remember that's what you grew up in this neighborhood, they arrived before the police. And Max panicked, went into the apartment to try to survey what was going on

and try to make sure Janice wasn't in there. And Max Wiley would later recall this to Bernard Lefkowitz. And he said, I stepped into the bathroom and leaned over and looked at the knife and realized that although it had been put under the faucet and the blade was clean, there was a quarter inch of blood on the hasp. I was frightened. And I went back to the bedroom that the two ladies

were inspecting and told them to go into the living room and sit down and not touch anything. Now, Max entered Emily's bedroom and found it in a similar state of disarray. He said, quote, when the door was half opened, I saw the first of the two twin beds. There was a lot of luggage on the bed, but the second bed was completely saturated by blood. And she hadn't noticed this once you first walked in because she was so panicked.

She's looking everywhere, I'm sorry. He said it was complete. And you look at a crime scene photo, it is completely saturated by blood. Oh man. He said it was a a massive gore. That's how he described it. And so Max entered the room and made his way around to the other side of the bed by the window

where he unfortunately found the bodies of his daughter, Janice and her roommate, Emily on the floor. Oh my God. They were facing each other on the floor and appeared to be tied together with what they later found out was strips of bed sheets. So this person who ever had done this had ripped strips from their own bed sheets, which takes a long time. He recalled, quote, and this is, he's talking about his own child here.

He said, Janice was nude. Emily was dressed. Oh my God. Janice had been stabbed through the heart. Emily's knifing around the neck was noticeable. Oh my God. The curlers were still in Janice had been stabbed through the heart. Emily's knifing around the neck was noticeable. Oh my God. The curlers were still in Janice's hair. Emily had been frightfully cut. It was very gory. That's how he described it. Oh my God.

So he pulled the blanket from the bed and laid it across the girls. Then he went back out to the living room and called in the police to report the discovery. And it's like, that's his daughter. He walked in on that. Oh my god, that, I don't know how you ever go on after that. Unfortunately, it affects him like-

Of course, I bet it did. Um, now in reality, the attack on Janice and Emily was even more brutal than what Max had described. Oh no. Um, both had been stabbed over 60 times. Each? Yep. What the fuck? Seven of which were directly to Janice's heart.

And this is very graphic. Janice's intestines were quote out of her stomach. Oh my God. Yeah. And her father saw that? Yeah. So she was saw that? Yeah. So she was literally, like she was disemboweled? Disemboweled.

And even worse somehow, the killer had actually initially stabbed them with a broken soda bottle. Oh my God. Then a small knife. That small knife broke in the process. So he went back to the kitchen, found a large chef's knife and returned to the bedroom

and continued stabbing them. And was that the knife that she had found when she walked in? That's the knife that Pat had found in the bathroom. Wow. So he stabbed them over 60 times using a broken soda bottle, which do you know how brutal and fucked up that is?

Yes. And then when he had to stop doing that because he broke the soda bottle enough, he used a knife and so much fury and rage that he broke that knife and then went and found a third weapon to continue stabbing them. This is insane. Yeah. Now, upon closer inspection, detectives realized that Janice and Emily

had actually been tied at the wrists and the ankle separately, and then the killer tied them together. Okay. So laying near the body, they also found the broken blade from that first knife, the broken bottle initially used in the attack and an open jar of Noxema

cream, a Gillette razor blade, a pair of women's underwear, and a piece of paper smeared with lipstick laying nearby Emily's head. Everything was completely saturated with blood. I'm just thinking to myself right now, this was obviously like mid morning that this happened because one of them was expected to be at work. One of the Pat was at work and then like came back that this happened because one of them was expected to be at work. One of the Pat was at work and then like came back to this later in the day. How did nobody heard anything?

It's wild. And they're on the third floor. No one heard anything. It's wild. This is and just the fact that this happened mid morning. It sounds like. Yeah. And just so you know, we are gonna find out what happened here.

Okay. Like exactly what happened here. And like just as a quick little trigger warning, because there is sexual assault involved in this. And I'm not gonna get into like the graphic details of it, but the open jar of Noxima cream came into play there. Okay. So this is how brutal this was.

Oh my God. Now for the officers on the scene who had seen a lot of like horrors with their time on the police force. I mean, they're in New York city, they're part of the homicide unit. The violence that they saw perpetrated against these two women was overwhelming. I mean, this is like on a completely galactic level.

Like this is insane. They were shocked. Like just the fact that her intestines were out of her body. Yeah. And after hours in the apartment, Detective John Lynch came out into the hallway and was overheard to say, quote, there's a slaughterhouse in there. In 12 years, I've never seen anything like it. I believe it.

12 years on the NYPD. And he had never seen anything like that. Yeah, that's obviously saying something, but I mean, I believe that. Yeah. Now, nearly 10 hours later, investigators and technicians had finished the whole initial processing of the scene

and the bodies were taken by ambulance to the morgue. That's all while Max Wiley had to take it upon himself to call Emily's parents and let them know what happened. So Max Wiley was the one who called Emily's parents, which he took on so much that day. Yeah, like, and his daughter was brutally attacked and killed as well. Yeah, and I'm like, who was taking care of him? That's remarkable that he even was able to do that. Yeah. Now, I mean, besides the complete brutality of this scene and just the absolute shock

of all this happening, the crime scene was baffling to investigators as well. Right. Because although the apartment was definitely ransacked, it was clearly. As far as Pat could tell, nothing had been stolen. And was there any sign of like any break-in? No, because sign of fourth entry. Right, because when she came home, the door was still locked, which is so strange to me.

Well, and all the jewelry was still on the dressers, Emily's purse was still at the scene. And then there were, you know, Emily and Janice's bodies themselves. Like I had mentioned before, again then there were, you know, Emily and Janice's bodies themselves. Like I had mentioned before, again, trigger warning Janice had been violently sexually assaulted. Her wounds were also more severe. Yeah, I mean.

And she'd been left nude. Emily, on the other hand, was fully closed. And based on the state in which the bodies were found and the lack of any other apparent motive, investigators determined that Janice was likely the primary victim and Emily's death might have been her being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Oh, that's awful. And just the fact that she was like not supposed to be in that place, like that day, she was going to go to the other apartment.

Yeah. And adding to the mystery was how, like you said, how the killer even gained access into the apartment in the first place. Because like we said, there was no sign of forced entry and the doorman didn't recall seeing anything unusual that day. And the building had no fire escape on the exterior. Because that was going to be my next question. Because not only did they, like they got in somehow,

but then they got out and the door remained locked. Exactly. So it's like, what? Is that somebody with a key? Yeah. Now, like we said, remember when Pat returned home, that door was still locked, the only notable thing was an open window. But remember, we're on the third floor.

In New York City. So, and all investigators determined was there was no way that someone could have gotten up there. It could be like scale a building. You can't scale a building, there's no fire escape. So, how the fuck did they get to the third floor? Like, this doesn't make sense. And then also crazy that the windows open and still nobody heard anything. Yeah.

So, they basically just kind of closed any kind of possibility that somebody broke in right away, which we find out like might've been a little too soon that they did that. Okay. But investigators were basically operating on the assumption that the killer was definitely willingly invited into the apartment by one of the victims.

It really is the only possibility that looked likely at the time. Likely, but then how did they lock the door on the way out? Well, they thought that's the thing, like how did they get out? That's what no one is really coming up with. And they were so focused on that idea that like, oh, they must have just been led into the apartment.

They weren't thinking logically about what you just asked, like asking the real questions that you should be asking, how the fuck did they lock the door on their way out? Right. So they lock the door on their way out? Right. So they were so focused on it that they kind of negated the idea that there was a stranger involved here. And they also said that they couldn't fathom

that a random stranger would break in and inflict this much brutality on someone. Which you get, but also that does happen. And you can't close off an avenue. Exactly. Until you know that that avenue needs to be closed off. Like we've seen this time and time again, when you enter a crime scene with a preconceived narrative

in your mind, it is almost always wrong. And you almost always fuck up the crime. It's true. And it's like, so, and also because of the status of the victims, daughters of an advertising executive and a surgeon. Yeah, wow. The murders were made the highest priority at the time with roughly 150 officers and detectives

assigned to the case. Many of them were pulled from other precincts and boroughs. And in their first press conference, chief of detectives, Lawrence McCurney, told reporters, quote, "'The police had no suspects no leads What they did though what they did have was a basic theory that someone had come into the apartment either with a plan to murder Janice or something happened in the heat of the moment that led to her death. Okay, but again

No one can say how they got back out of the apartment, right? And this was supported by the fact that Emily was known to have left to return the car to Riverside that morning. So her coming back to the apartment would have been a surprise to anyone in there. Like she wasn't supposed to be there. She had left. So if somebody was in there, they were like,

oh, shit, I thought she was gone. So they're still running off this idea that it's Janice and Emily was just wrong, wrong time, wrong place. And also Emily hadn't been in New York for very long and really only knew a small number of people. So if the killer was known to the victims, as detectives really thought that they were, he was most likely going to be found among Janice's friend group. Okay. Now, knowing that Janice had, like we had said before, a very rich social and dating life, investigators started running down the names

in a small green address book that she had, that they found in the top drawer. This included dozens of men and women, many of whom she had actually dated. And they were absolutely convinced it was somebody in that book, someone Janice knew. And the idea that she also could have been involved with women really through investigators for a loop.

They focused really solely on her. Like that was really it. And there's actually an ID discovery about this. And there's this great quote about how this is a great example of cops plunging into a lifestyle that they were just way over their heads about. And in the meantime, cause like they were basically interviewing a couple,

there was one woman that she was known to have, I think lived with for a little while named Pearl. And Pearl was like this like brash, like just like the fuck do you wanna know? Kind of girl, like she was just a hot shit. And she was just kind of like, I don't know. It's like, I clearly didn't kill her, you know what I mean? Like what he's done, but she was seemingly like, you know,

fucked up about what had happened to Janice, but she was like, I don't know why you're thinking I would do this, like we care about each other. And the cops were like, huh, like I don't know what to do. Cause remember it's barely out of the 1950s right at this point So the cops were like what like what she dated women and then it became this whole thing of like oh god She did women too like what's going on here? It must be so crazy must be some deviant lifestyle that has led to this you know, so it's just ridiculous

How sad is it that that like would still happen probably exactly now in the meantime? Max Wiley Janice's father, offered the first potential lead. Okay. When he told detectives that in the weeks before she died, his daughter had actually been plagued and terrified, quote unquote, by a series of obscene phone calls. Oh.

Unfortunately, all the people in Janice's address book had alibis for the days that the girls were murdered. I say unfortunately, fortunately too, I guess, because I would hate to think somebody in her address book was this person, but it would have gotten them caught. Now similarly, the lead about the obscene phone calls really went nowhere, couldn't really go anywhere.

There were also other holes in the theory that they were running off of that really couldn't be ignored. For instance, Janice had planned to go to the march on Washington that day and would have otherwise been at work. So like there was really no reason for her to be home. Like this was out of her general routine and she wasn't even planning on being at home for the rest of the day. Right.

So the killer would have had to either know her plans that day, which seems unlikely since her own roommates didn't know her plans that day. Yeah. Or they would have had to have been watching the apartment. Which seems sort of likely. plans that day, which seems unlikely since her own roommates didn't know her plans that day. Yeah. Or they would have had to have been watching the apartment. Which seems sort of likely. Which could be likely. Now, if the killer had been watching the apartment building to find out whether Janice was home,

that also had certain implications. Like, for example, East 88th Street was in one of the nicer neighborhoods and populated with middle and upper middle class residents. So in that case, someone certainly would have noticed an unfamiliar face lingering in the area. People knew each other here and they were on the lookout, especially if that person was like noticeably out of place in any way. Like people would be like, you're not from around here.

Like who are you staring at this apartment kind of thing. And after all, based on the viciousness of the attacks and the mutilations to the bodies, essentially, Janice and Emily's killer would have been covered in blood. Covered. Yeah. Which someone would have noticed in broad daylight. You would think. And so armed with this new theory of like, okay, now we got to move away from that original one, an army of police officers descended on the Upper East Side neighborhood and started canvassing all the buildings around Janice

and Emily's building. Cause they were like, it's gotta be someone around here. That nobody would notice. They wouldn't look at a place. Mm-hmm. Now, among the investigators leading the canvas was Detective Eddie Bolger. Oh, I don't like that look. Yeah. He was a detective from Brooklyn and he was brought on to assist in the case.

You're going to want to kick Eddie Bulger in the fucking chin. I got that feeling immediately. You had this look in your eye when you said that fucker's name. Now, I'll give it to the detectives in Manhattan. They were not into him either, so I'll give them that much. Okay. They were appreciative of the help

because they needed all the help they could to hand this. You know, there was a lot of people to talk to, but a lot of them found, Bulger's, I'll say his personality and his approach, distasteful at best. Okay. Particularly the way he interacted with some of the residents in and around Janice's and Emily's neighborhood.

According to Bulger, so according to this detective, Emily's neighborhood, according to Bolger. So according to this detective, Bolger, not according to anybody else. According to him, he claimed that he had what he would call a sixth sense for knowing not when any person was lying, when black people were lying. Oh, so he's a racist fuck. Yep, cool. And he was known by all to treat black interviewees

with far less respect than he did anyone else. And he never got in trouble for this? Well, because this was such a high profile case, it was determined pretty quickly that Bulger's obvious racial bias was very risky to this case. That's what I was just going to say. You're going to chew yourself on the foot here.

They knew. They were like, he's going to taint this. This is going to happen. He's going to push someone that's just because he's racist, fuck. So bye, bitch. They kicked him off the case almost immediately. Oh, good. Yeah.

Because they got some reports that he was interacting with some of the people in the buildings around Janice and Emily's building. And it was very clearly who he was treating nicely and who he wasn't. And so I think people that were partnered with him were like, He's going to try to pin this on somebody. Not only is this fucked up, but he's going to get me in trouble too. And like this whole case is going to fall apart. And you're going to get the wrong guy instead of...

You're out of here, Bulger. But how fucked up is that? I know when a black person is lying. That's disgusting. The fuck is wrong with you? That's just literal pure hatred. Literal, you're just saying you're racist. Like just say it.

You essentially are. Now, unfortunately, even with Bulger off the case, the neighborhood canvas really turned up like no substantial leads. And a month later, investigators were still without anything. I almost said without nothing. Without nothing. No, a police spokesperson said, there's a complete lack of physical evidence,

no description of the murderer, not one substantial clue, not one tangible motive. Which is so frustrating. And despite having no new information or motive, investigators continued to reject the notion that the killer was, quote, a psychotic stranger who entered the apartment by chance. Instead, they remained committed to the belief that whoever killed Janice and Emily was most likely an acquaintance of Janice.

So they were moving slightly away from the original theory, but still focusing on Janice and Emily was most likely an acquaintance of Janice. So they were moving slightly away from the original theory, but still focusing on Janice. Which again, I get it. I get it, because of what they're seeing, but this- I'm getting the sense though that it's like, not. Well, this was also refuted by Max Wiley, Janice's father, who insisted, quote, I knew most of the men Janice dated,

they were a very decent crowd. And according to Max, he said, there was only one that I had any deep inner disapproval of. Janice was infatuated with him. He was a liar, he was mean, he was cruel. And so he reported the man's name to investigators. He was like, here you go, go check him out. He was instantly checked out and cleared because he had a rock solid alibi.

Oh, so he's just an asshole. Yeah. Now, despite thousands of man hours and the offer of $10,000 in a reward put up by Newsweek where Janice worked, which now would be like $100,000. Oh, wow. The one year anniversary of the murders was coming up quick. And they didn't find a single piece of evidence that was gonna help them. Now, months later, on April 14th, 1964,

a 46 year old cleaning woman and mother of five named Minnie Edmonds was murdered. She was stabbed to death near Sutter Avenue and Chester Street in Brooklyn by a man who was trying to steal her purse. Okay. Now, this ended up being kind of the first break in the case because what they didn't know it at the time

and what really ended up being what like, I guess kind of broke them was the first break in the case was another young woman in Brooklyn was then reported to police that she had been attacked to like write like a week later after Minnie Edmonds was killed. Oh, wow. And she was attacked in the same area and her name was Elba Barrero.

And she was also in Brooklyn and it was around 1 30 AM again, a week after Minnie. And she was grabbed from behind by a man who held her by the throat. And then according to her, dragged her into a doorway and was trying to steal her purse. Now, Elba screamed, and I guess he had told her, like, if you scream, I'll kill you.

But she started to scream obviously, because she's like, yeah, you gotta try. And her attacker ended up running off. So he ran off and before he ran off, she tore a big button off of his overcoat. Smart girl. And a nearby patrol officer, Frank Azola, responded to the screams and chased the suspect.

And he ended up losing sight of the suspect at one point, but he saw a man named George Whitmore, who was 19 years old at the time. And originally thought he was shorter and thinner, like didn't match the build of the person that he saw running away from the scene and who Barreiro had described him as looking like. So he kind of lost sight and he was just like,

I don't know about that, but the following day, while Detective Azola and his partner, Detective Richard Adala was on patrol in the same neighborhood. They spotted Whitmore again. George Whitmore? Sure. And just arrested him.

Oh. Now it should be noted he's a black man. Why did they arrest him when he didn't match the suspect that he saw with his own eyeballs running away from the scene? I don't know. Like what, what charge are you? What are you charging him with out of nowhere?

Well, what's even better is they called Elba up and they were like, hey, we have a suspect. We need you to go identify him. Which like, ooh, oof, tainted already. You can't say that he's, nope, like that's not how that works. We have someone we want you to look at. Not how that works. So they asked her if she could identify him

and she was like, well, I never saw his face. And they still said come on down. And she was like, but yeah, I can identify him. But you just said you never saw his face. I don't know about that. A million people in this world have the same builds, not usually the same face. Yep.

Oh, but honey. And so- I was in your corner for a minute there. What you think is that they would put him in like a proper lineup, correct? Just him. Is that how this works? I don't know if I would think that, but yeah.

Oh no, it's even worse because they brought Elba to the door of the interrogation room where Whitmore was sitting and said, is that the guy? We just arrested him and we think he's the guy. Is that the guy? Can you look at him in that interrogation room? No. Where he is very clearly looking like a suspect?

No. You literally can't do that. Like you can't do that. No, of course you can't. And she hesitated and she was like, I don't know. And then she said, can I hear him speak? And they had him say something and she was like,

yep, that's him. Oh, that's the shakiest shit I've ever heard. I don't know. What? Yeah. So as Elva Barrero was helping to identify her attacker and she was overheard by a detective who happened to be in the area.

No, don't you even. A detective by the name of Eddie Bulger. No, not this fucker. I knew we hadn't seen the last of him. I felt it in my bones. He happened to work in the same precinct. Oh, goodie. He was also very bitter about being kicked off

the Wiley-Hoffert murder case. So he wanted to solve it. Quote unquote. So Detective Bulger saw this moment as an opportunity to redeem himself, and he was given permission to interview the suspect. Whose idea was that? Yeah. According to Detective Bulger, when officers searched George Whitmore, they found several photographs of women in his pockets.

Okay. Or excuse me, of a woman, I should say, in his pockets. And when they asked who the woman was, Whitmore claimed he found the photos and had been showing them to his friends to make them think it was his girlfriend. Okay. Detective Bulger, though, was like,

no, that's a picture of Janice Wiley. And immediately was like, no, that's a picture of Janice Wiley. And immediately was like, you are the killer of Janice Wiley and Emily Hoffert. Was it even a picture of Janice? I guess we'll have to see, huh? And we'll have to see in part two. You son of a bitch. Because when I tell you that this is a twisty,

turny series of events that is going to happen right now. Oh man. because when I tell you that this is a twisty, turny series of events that is going to happen right now. Oh man. Because remember, Elba Barrero grabbed a button off of this person, so that's going to be a thing. Yes. They have a button, she's identified him, George Whitmore, and now Detective Bolger here, who is racist, a known racist, it was actually kicked off the case for being racist.

Of course, being racist. Is now in charge of dealing with this black man who is a suspect based off a real wonky identification. Based off of nothing essentially. And is now they found pictures in his pockets, like just so you're set up for the next thing. Yeah. Of a woman who he's saying, I just found these pictures,

I was just claiming it was my girlfriend, I was just trying to be cool. And now Detective Bulger is like, that's Janice Wiley. So you would think with all that, you're like, wow, okay. That's a little weird. We got him, right? We don't. So I had a feeling we did it.

Stay tuned for part two because it's going to get very frustrating, but in the end, there's at least a tiny bit of justice. Do we get the right person eventually? We'll know who did it. Oh, no. All right. Well, we hope you keep listening. I'm so trepidatious. And we hope you keep it weird.

But not so weird that you're anything like Detective Bulger. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. Follow Morbid on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to episodes early and add free by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com.