Morbid - Episode 55: Karla Homolka & Paul Bernardo Part 2

Episode Date: March 29, 2019

In the conclusion of this disgusting story, Ash and Alaina discuss Kristen French and Leslie Mahaffy's tragic last days and lament over The Deal With The Devil. Things don't get any better in this half of the tale, but at least Karla has jowls now. Sources: Invisible Darkness: The Strange Case Of Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka by Stephen Williams https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/key-events-in-the-bernardo-homolka-case-1.933128 https://mckinneylaw.iu.edu/iiclr/pdf/vol7p193.pdf https://www.narcity.com/en-ca/news/disgraced-serial-killer-karla-homolka-is-roaming-free-in-canada-and-people-are-furious See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wondery pod or text wondery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. Angie has made it easier than ever to connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Whether it's routine maintenance and emergency repair or a dream project, Angie lets you browse home on her reviews, compare quotes from multiple local pros, and even book a service instantly. So the next time you have a home project, just Angie that and start getting the most out

of your home. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's ANGI.com. Hey weirdos, I'm Ash and I'm Alina and this is Morvid. Part two guys, a true crime podcast. It's finally here, the conclusion of Carla, Homoka, and Paul Bernardo. I am so ready for this to be over. I think a lot of people are. I'm like glad that we're doing it.

Glad it's out there, ready to be over it. Yeah, this is a rough one, like a real rough one. Yeah, but we're gonna get through it together, guys. And we don't really have a whole lot of business to take care of today. No bit nass. We're gonna thank our patronuses in my mini-sode, which will be coming out in a couple days as well. Woo!

But we do wanna mention our sponsors. It's all too obvious. We're being let down by the institutions we used to trust. American families are talking about a future of food shortages, banks failing, society breaking down, and what seems like the setup for the apocalypse. But instead of throwing up their hands, folks are leaning into self-reliance, investing in emergency food storage, now more than ever. And my Patriot supply, the nation's largest emergency preparedness company has made it easier than ever for you to have peace of mind knowing you're Prepared go to my Patriot Supply dot com and stock up on their best selling three-month emergency food kit

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What would you do? I'm Whit Missildine, the creator of this is actually happening, a podcast from Wondry that brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events, told by the people who lived them. From a young man that dunes his entire future with one choice, to a woman who survived a notorious serial killer, you'll hear their first-person account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Each episode is an exploration of the human spirit and personal discovery. These haunting accounts sound like Hollywood movies, but I assure you, this is actually happening.

Follow this is actually happening wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to ad free on the Amazon Music or Lundery app. Guys, just like we're trying to give you discounted stuff, so like just take it. Just take it. Take it. So, I think that concludes our business portion of the introduction. No, I'd rather this whole episode just be business instead of Paul and Carla.

It's just going to be business. The whole thing. No, unfortunately this is Carla Mocha and Paul Bernardo. And I would like to start this out by saying that I just recently found out that Paul Bernardo has the doucheous voice I have ever heard. I hadn't heard it until I was researching part two. And he literally talks like this, but in a Canadian accent. And it's I would like to point out that I am not surprised by this news at all nobody should face Looks like he should talk that way. Yeah, it's really his face matches his voice so well Well, it's one of those things if you heard his voice you'd be like, I know what he looks like You know how that doesn't always happen? You say that he looked like a washed up member of the Backstreet Boys?

Yes. He looks like if one of the Backstreet Boys drowned in a river and then got hit by a Mack truck, but somehow survived it all and then just came on stage. I love that. I love that so much. After not sleeping for like 72 hours. Wow. That's what he looks like.

Oh, and getting frosted tips. And getting frosted just in between everything. Just got his tips frosted. Just you know, in between all of that frosted tips. And through some moose and that gross hair is. Yeah. So just to set everybody out to like feel good for a second about how stupid Paul's voice is, I'm going to play you a little clip.

Just so you can hear it. Oh. Because I feel like everybody should hear it. This isn't a gross clip. He's just being a douche to police detectives in his prison interview. There's really no context here. It's just him being douchey, but his voice is just too good

to not play. So without further ado, Paul Bernado. For Carla, who is with me is the word. I told her I'd be willing to take Paul and Ralph on anything and everything. Would you in turn, are you going to go down before you do this car? No, just ask her. She's not going to take a student to cut her tail on all these issues. Did her hand cause that? Yeah, I did.

Blah blah blah. Did this happen in July? It was a girl in January. I actually kidnapped it. And it got somebody I picked up in a bar that she tried to to roam over. All these other issues are relevant. All relevant. And so then I got

dressed to you guys when you came back again last year I said yeah I'll take a point down on anything because I'm not talking why I'm the thing are you have you again I asked a question have you guys gone down you know I'm gonna cry this free now I'm not in the business pointer and jail it's not my thing but my point was did you ask me a question just so we get the story straight I mean if she refuses, there's a reason why she's refusing. Oh my God, why is he talking so fucking fast?

I think he's like, wait, I got a lot to say here. I gotta talk about polygraphs. I gotta talk about curling. I'm talking about polygraphs to the color. Literally, he just spoke so fast. I barely even heard what he was saying. Well, at one point, he goes, I'm not in the business to put in Karla and Jill.

That's your job, that's not my job. It's like, what, dude's not my job. What? What's happening, Paul? What's going on? That's stressed me out on a galactic level. He's a big old, do she have dead back street boy? That's what he is. He's a zombie of the back street boy.

That's literally what he is. When we last left you off, and again, this is going to be super gnarly. And if you do not like listening to descriptions of people being sexually assaulted and raped, this might not be for you. But if you want to hang around still, I will let you know when it's going to get kind of yucky.

So guys, remember, I will say, and I'll say it's gonna get gnarly, yes. Let's jump into this. So when we last left off, Paul and Carla had raped and killed her 15 year old sister, Tammy. And then they had had that special video called the Fireside Chat, where they talked about how great it was and how Carla loved it and she loved watching it and she loved taping it. And then she pretended to be Tammy and they made a sex tape. So weird, weird things were weird, man.

And it's only gonna get weird over here. So I don't want that. So about a month after Tammy's death on February 1st, 1991, Paul and Carla moved in together. Oh, good. They got a place in Port Del Luce on Terrio. Isn't that nice? They got a new place. That actually does sound like a really cute place. And at this point, Carla's parents were clearly, I mean, again, this is only a month after Tammy died. So her parents are deeply mourning because you know, yeah, that's what at least partially normal human beings do when they lose a loved one. Not Carla though. Carla was actually very annoyed with her father

in particular who was taking Tammy's death exceptionally hard. We know this because Carla wrote a letter to her friend explaining just how annoyed she was at her parents for mourning the daughter she and Paul murdered. Want to hear the letter? I don't, but yes. And just so you know, Carla talks like this. She talks like this. I'm going to read it in her voice, okay? No, no. I don't want it. Fuck my parents. They're being so stupid. Only thinking of themselves. My father doesn't even want us to have a wedding anymore. He thinks we should just go to City Hall. Screw that. We're having a good time.

If he wants to sit at home and be miserable, he's welcome to. He hasn't worked except for one day since Tammy died. He's wallowing in his own misery and fucking me over. It sounds awful on paper, parentheses. But I know you'll see what I'm really saying, and parentheses. Tammy always said last year that she wanted a forest green Porsche for her 16th birthday. Now my dad keeps saying, I would have bought it for her if I'd only known that's bull. If he really felt like he'd be paying if he really felt like that, he'd be paying for my wedding because I could die tomorrow or next year or whenever.

He's such a liar. Wow, I don't even know what to do with all of that. I feel so many types of ways. Carl is like, wow, my dad's such an asshole for not wanting to be to get married a month after my sister. A month after I killed my sister. Yeah, like how dare him?

How dare him not be just like up and running and having fun? Like what the fuck? I mean, it's Carla's wedding, guys. Time to stop mourning the brutal death of your preteen daughter and start focusing on place settings and shit. I bet that wedding. Well, he's doing smelled bad. Oh, it smelled so bad.

Yeah, there was a lot of aquanet and not wedding. There's so much mousse involved in this couple that there's so much, nothing smelled so bad. Yeah, there was a lot of aquanet and not wedding. There's so much moose involved in this couple that there's so much, nothing can be done. Like when they hug, you can hear their hair crinkling together. Oh yeah. Like you can hear them coming because they just crunch everywhere.

Literally. Literally crunch. Is it autumn? No, that's pollen Carla. No, that's pollen. Is that a whole season coming? No, that's Paul and Carla. No, that's Paul. Is that a whole season coming? No, that's Paul and Carla. Don't worry about it.

It's an easy, easy mistake to make. So, so, you know, lucky for Carla, the wedding planning continued because grief be damned. Oh yeah, fuck grief. Yeah, fuck grief. Meanwhile, Paul was still being sketchy and selling cigarettes over the border illegally with his friend Van Smurnus. That's not his real person. That's a real person. No, it's not. Van Smurnus. Like first, like I'm trying to come up with something that rhymes with furnace, but I can't. Oh, furnace, furnace. My name's Van. But like if Van's furnace came up to you and you were like, what do you do for a living?

And he was like, I sell cigarettes illegally over the border. You'd be like, yeah, you do. You sure do, Van's furnace. Like I'd be like, yeah. Also, that's not your real name, bye. Get out of here. So yeah, him and Van, they got a whole thing going to get a whole smuggling business going together. Unread. And all the while Paul and Carla are still making like sex tapes with Carla dressing, talking and acting like Tammy. I don't like that. Yeah. I hate that. No one like that. No one likes that.

No one like that. I really don't like it. I'm just, I'm not a fan of it. I don't like talking about it or thinking about it, but it happens. A lot. So unfortunately, it's part of this. Now weirdly enough, at this point, the rapes in Scarborough ceased. And a new string of sexual assaults and rapes began in St. Catherine, which was closer to where Paul and Carla were now. Oh, that's weird, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's a weird coincidence.

Super weird. Just thought I'd bring it up. Now, this brings us to the night of June 15, 1991. Paul was driving around looking to steal some license plates for his smuggling business. You know. We are so in unison. Tonight we're keeping saying the same things. So it's so perfect.

You know, it's just regular middle of an I-shit. Well, while he was out looking to get felonious, he spotted 14-year-old Leslie Mahaffey. Oh, no. He spotted her in front of her house. Leslie had attended a wake for her friend who had passed away suddenly, that earlier than day, and she had stayed with her friends until very late, and that's when Paul spotted

her. It was around 2 a.m. Now, her friends had brought her home. When she got to the front door, she realized that her side door was locked. She said she was sure that another door would be open, so she had her friends leave. She was like, don't worry about it, I'll get in the house. Oh, no. Unfortunately, there was no unlocked way in because she had missed her curfew, and her parents were trying to teach her a lesson. Oh my God, no. No, that's the most horrible thing I've ever heard in my life.

I know, I keep thinking about those parents because it's like, how do you even, oh my God. Yeah, that's like real bad. So, wow, that's horrific. It really is. So she was trying to wake her parents up to let her in when Paul approached her and asked if she wanted to

cigarette. Now, he just came up to her like outside of her house. Yeah. I'd be like, no fucking Lance Bass. I don't. No, some dude pulled up on me at 2 a.m 2am while I was locked out of my house and said literally anything to me, I would be screaming and causing a huge ruckus. Yeah.

I'm not blaming her in any way. No. Well, and unfortunately, Leslie was only 14. So she wasn't exactly privy to how like fucked up the world is yet but um when she got closer to his car, Paula tacked her, wrapping a sweater around her face to blindfold her, threw her into the car and drove her back to the home that he shared with Carla. Oh my god that's horrific. Now things are gonna be a little gnarly, I'm not gonna go like crazy detail or anything so don't worry.

But just the whole outfit is not fun at all, so just be aware. Again, Leslie's only 14, let's all remember that. Like that's not like baby. I mean like 14 is baby. So Leslie was held hostage in Carla and Paul's, I almost called him Brad. He looks like a Brad. He looks like the Brad's and Chad's in the world.

And I'm sorry if your name is Brad or Chad, but I'm not even that sorry. So it just kind of makes sense. She was held hostage for 24 hours in their house. While Paul and Carla repeatedly raped, tortured, and humiliated her. The entire thing was filmed on Paul's infamous camcorder, the entire thing.

The only thing not filmed was Leslie's unfortunate end. Now, it's theorized that she was murdered due to her blindfold slipping off, and that theory holds up because Carla, even though Carla's a total liar and lies about everything, she did say that the reason Leslie was murdered was because her blindfold slipped off and she could identify them. That was... So, I mean, I'm assuming that does have a little bit to do with it. I also think they just want me to just make sense. But Carla did and they felt what it was like.

Well, Carla said that like Paul's ultimate thing was he wanted to have like, he wanted to get these teenage girls and keep them for a while. He didn't want to just let them go or kill them. He wanted to keep them for a while as like sex slaves. That was like his ultimate fantasy. What the fuck is wrong with so I wonder if he was thinking like he could I think his whole thing and this is just me theorizing here that he could like break them in and make them, you know, like Stockholm syndrome them into staying. And I think he really tried to do that with Christian French, who's the next victim we'll talk about,

but we'll get to that in a second. So Leslie was murdered. So the day after the blindfold slipped. Leonardo claimed that Homoka fed her a lethal dose of Halsian, but Carla claims instead that Bernardo strangled her. Either way, was there any like, ligature marks? Well, you'll see why that doesn't really matter. The pair put her in the basement after they murdered her,

and the reason they put her in the basement of their home was that later that day. All of Carlos' family joined them at their house for a father's day dinner. Oh, wow. Yep. Great. Right above Leslie's dead battered body lying in the basement, they had a father's day dinner. Psychopaths are so fucking scary. These two are... Holy fuck. Bonkers. So they ate dinner and made small talk with her entire clan while the body was in the basement. And also after they like brutalized and murdered this young girl, they just showered and got dressed. And like, already for dinner. And like we're excited to like see their family probably.

Yeah, and we're like cool. We're gonna have dinner. Like I'm like thinking about what I do to get ready for a family gathering. Like what? Yeah, it's ridiculous. Now I hate that so much. After the family left, Paul went down to the basement and he dismembered Leslie's body with a circular saw and then the pair encased the pieces in cement. Oh, I've heard I heard about that. Yeah, and then both of them dumped her remains in Lake Gibson. Oh my god. Now, a little more than two weeks later,

Paul and Carla got married. How exciting. How exciting. What a union. So in the wedding picture, they had already killed Tammy and Kristen. They had two weeks before that. They had already killed Leslie and Tammy. Yeah, Kristen. They haven't got yet They had a very expensive very fancy ceremony at Niagara on the lake

She wore a big ugly expensive dress and had babies dressing her hair. Oh, fucking ugly. Oh, yeah He looked stupid as hell and his sideburns were like half sideburns Which like why can't you just commit to sideburns or not? They even had a horse-drawn carriage because their romance was such a fucking fairytale. Wow that's horrific. Yeah the whole thing was a whole fairytale. Carla described it as a fairytale. But to me the only fairytale that they even slightly resemble is like Hansel and Gretel if the witch was a couple of sadistic rapists with a buttload of Halifeng and a video camera, and the kids being lured to the candy house were teenage girls

just minding their own damn business. Literally. So basically the same thing, right? Total fairy tale. Except totally different. Total fairy tale. So now this part's insane to me. The same day of their wedding, while Carla and Paul were exchanging vows and playfully

pushing cake into each other's stupid faces. What happened? Leslie's remains were uncovered by a couple of fishermen. Oh, the same fucking day as their wedding? Yes. On their wedding day. Holy fuck. Literally, while they were getting married, Lizlies' remains were being found. That's so fucked. Isn't that insane? And like crazy symbolic.

That's like the universe, man. Yeah. That's like the universe being like, go fuck yourself. Like I don't even know what more to say. It's just like, damn, that's the universe. Yeah, I don't know what to say. I don't know what the universe is saying, but it's saying something. It's saying something. So, you know, they lived at such a happy, delicious, delightful, romantic life. And then on April 19th, 1992, Paul and Carla decided to go out driving

in search of another sex slave for Paul. Oh God. Because that's what you do when you get married. Yeah, that's how they spend their honeymoon right totally. Absolutely. They parked in a church parking lot and just waited like the predators that they are. Like come on. You just park in a church parking lot. What are you? Jesus is watching bitch. Yeah. This is, Jesus is watching bitch. This is when 15 year old Kristen French walked through the parking lot on her way home from school. She had long brown hair, she was dressed in a school uniform. She was, I mean, they were both Wesley and Kristen were both like beautiful. They're just, yeah.

Yeah. According to many reports, Carla suggested to Paul what about her? And Paul was super into it. And Paul was also super into Kristen. And we'll see this because she gets held the longest alive. Oh, really? The way Carla talks about her, you can tell that Paul had taken a liking to her and it bothered Carla. Oh yeah. So Carla called out to Kristen for help with directions and she even held out a map for authenticity. Oh my god what a fucking con. Right. When

Kristen approached the passenger side to talk to her, Paul came up behind her, blindfolded her and threw her into the came up behind her, blindfolded her, and threw her into the car. In broad daylight? Oh yeah, in broad daylight. Carla held her hair, well Paul held a knife to her to keep her in the car. Oh my God.

People were around when this happened. Like people saw it. Yeah. People fucking suck. Like don't ever expect people to help you. Because people just saw this. And it just happened. Kristen's parents reported her missing immediately because she was just coming home from school and she was a reliable good kid.

So when she didn't come home, they were like, whoa, something's wrong, like immediately. This is when all the witnesses came forward and said they saw the abduction. Unfortunately, one woman who didn't exactly have a subscription to auto-planet thought she knew exactly what the car was, but she was very wrong. Oh, no. She told police that the car that abducted Kristin was a beige Camaro.

What sucks is that it was actually a gold Nissan that Paul drove. Wow, she was really overestimated in this fucking wallet, right? It's a Camaro. It's a Nissan. Not the same thing. And so this was what ended up hindering the investigation a lot because billboards were put up and shit that had a beige Camaro as the car everyone was supposed to be looking for. Oh shit. Because when Kristen French was abducted, it was like everywhere.

I mean, this was just, they literally had billboards up with that car on it being like, this is who abducted Kristen French. So were they connecting it at all? They did do. I like to connect it. And they started calling it the schoolgirl murders at the end. Right. They didn't connect it until later though. Okay. So Paul and Carlo were just floating around with no suspicion at all in their fucking beige Nissan or their gold Nissan. Yeah. Meanwhile, Kristen was held captive in their home for three full days. Oh my god. Yeah, that's a long time if you actually think about that. Oh yeah. And she endured the same kind of torture that Leslie Mahaffey endured.

They took turns holding the video camera while she was repeatedly raped, beaten, humiliated. Paul forced Kristen to say that she loved him many times, which to me says he was a little more adventurous. He had a weird face. Yeah. This is pretty awful. This isn't like graphic, it's just an awful thought. He also forced her to watch her parents on television pleading for her safe return. No, I literally hate that.

Why? Like what the fuck is wrong with you? That just ruined me, I hate that. I hope somebody slams his head into a concrete wall working with you. She had to literally watch her father begging for someone to bring her back. Because her parents were desperate to get her back obviously. What is wrong with you? And like whenever I hear about something like this

where a victim was kept for like days on end, I always immediately, this is gonna sound weird, but I think about the nighttime. Like what were nights like for Kristen? Yeah, and now I totally get that. Like was she just staying awake and wondering what the hell was gonna happen next or wondering what her family was doing?

Or like I bet she tried to get away. Yeah, and like, did she pass out from exhaustion at any point? Like did she dream if she passed out? Like I know it's kinda like deepenship, but seriously it always hits me that night time must be the worst. Fuck time in those situations. I don't know, I just think about it.

I'm like, what do you do during the night? I mean, Paul and Carla obviously slept. So that just leaves Kristen alone to just like exist and wonder. Did they, did they like chain her up or something? They did. Yeah. She was chained up for the whole time. Oh, wow. Yeah. Um, Kristen was really smart though. She figured if she just went along with everything they wanted,

that they would not punish her too badly or maybe even let her go eventually, so she tried to be very compliant, which is smart because, you know, you never know, like, exactly. So smart of her to do that instead of just, you know, you, it's like sure you want to like push back and fight, but that doesn't always equal. You have to have the ending. Yeah, exactly. You have to read the room. Unfortunately, on April 19th, after three days, Kristen French was murdered by Paul and Carla. Why did they say they murdered her? Well, Kristen's, that's the thing that they both kind of blame each other. So neither one of them has a They both kind of blame each other, so neither one of them has a a definitive answer.

Yeah. Kristen's entire ordeal was captioned on camera like Leslie and Tammy, but they again failed to capture the moment of death on film, so it was the same kind of thing. Carla does say in one of her interviews that they killed Kristen because she said she had to go back to work. And she said she didn't want this girl just in their house alone during the day because she was afraid she would escape. So she looked at, she said she looked at Paul and said something needs to be done about her. And she says it like very nonchalantly like, yeah,

I didn't want her in my house in case she escaped. So we had to just kill her. Like, oh, okay. And what does Paul say? Paul, I didn't see a lot about what he said about the Christian French thing. I think, but he blames Carla. He says that Carla gave her a lethal dose of halethane. He always says that in he maintains, I did everything.

He's like, I am on film. I did everything. I will fully admit to everything I did. Who do you have to? So you're like, you have to, I am on film. I did everything. I will fully admit to everything I did. I do. You have to. You have to, bitch. You can't deny that. But he always says that Carla was the one who killed them. That's interesting. What do you mean he says one thing?

I kind of think, because I almost think that it is Carla. Yeah, because she was super jealous. Because she was super jealous, and I think she was super dangerous. I mean, he's obviously absurdly dangerous, but I think he did want to keep them around. Yeah. Not out of the goodness of his heart. He wanted to keep them around

so he could rape them for months on end. Yeah. I don't think he wanted this to end after three days. But do you think that he would have killed them eventually? If he had done this all operation by himself, like take Carl out of it? Maybe. If maybe if he, I think he would have killed the ones he thought he couldn't break.

OK. But the ones he thought he could break, I think he would have kept around. And I think he would have kept Kristen around not because he thought he could break her, but because he liked her. Yeah. Because apparently I read something that said he wanted to be like a rap artist at

one point. Shut the fuck up. Which I mean like makes so much sense it's not even funny. I can't you just see him wanting to be a rap artist. Yes. Yeah. And he even made some like music. No, no, no, no, no, no.

Yeah, where can I find it? I know, I went looking for it. I'm gonna keep looking, but I don't think he released any. Oh, and he E.P. Oh my God. But he did, at one time, Carla said that he brought Kristen into his little music studio and showed her some of his music. That's so fucking weird.

So he seems like he was very infatuated. Yeah, like he was just acting very strangely casual with her. Yeah, that is strange. Can you imagine if somebody kidnapped you and was like really, really fucking horrible to you and then was like, hey, check out my fucking mixtape? Exactly, it's like what? I feel like no. Excuse me, what?

And I think that's what Kristen, she was like, do no. Like I don't care about your round two people. Yeah, like thank you, but no. Thank you, goodbye. Wait, did you say Carla said that Kristen didn't like the music? Yeah, she said Carla was like not into it. And it's like no shit, she wasn't into it. Of course she wasn't caring about your beats.

She's like wow hot, hot drop on that one. Yeah like really do you think she has like any kind of mindset right now to care about your music career? Yeah. She's like I gotta go actually. That's what's wrong with these two fucking people. It's like and Carla says it like oh, yeah, she wasn't impressed like oh I'm sorry that she wasn't Seriously, oh it's just unbelievable So that was a fucktard. She is it's insane. No again Paul claims that Carla killed her Well, and he says that he she killed her well, he was out getting dinner for the three of them. So he said I believe there. Exactly. Carla testified that she stood in the

room and watched while Paul strangled Kristen with an electrical cord. And I did hear her interview where she says that, but she's such a bullshit.it. I don't really believe that. She's such a bullshit. But it happened. So Paul and Carla left her where she laid while they showered, dressed, and then headed off to enjoy Easter dinner with the homokas. It was Easter. Yeah.

Oh my God. Why didn't they do these things on holidays? I was just, and it's insanely interesting that they seemed to murder these people right before having dinner with Carla's family every time it's like It's a weird stress reliever like I feel like it's like intentional Yeah, like she like literally got off she like gets a high on it right before having dinner with her family Yeah, that's really weird like I feel like that is what how it's so odd

I didn't mean like, stress reliever, but like, do you know what I'm saying? No, like in their minds, they're like, oh, we have to have to have to have some with the in-laws. Yeah, like, what? Better go kill someone. That's horrific. I could see them taking that.

Yeah. Yeah, it's because they're so fucked up. Now, they went and had dinner with her family, and then they came home. They washed Kristen's body. They cut off all her hair. Why? And dumped her naked less than a kilometer from the place where Leslie Mahaffee was buried.

Why they cut all her hair off? They wanted to disguise her. Like so people couldn't immediately recognize her. Now it's important to note again that Kristen was hailed for her bravery and quick thinking to leave because she left behind clues. Her shoe was found at the scene of the abduction and they said that they think that was on purpose. They also said she tore off a section of the map that Carla was holding and left it at the scene. Oh wow. Because it was forensically tested later and they think that she did it on purpose.

Makes sense. So this is when things got really bad between Carlin and Paul. Okay. He started beating her pretty severely every day, according to her. Well, maybe he was mad that she killed Kristen. Honestly, it's like all of this kind of adds up. It does make sense. Infatuation. In a horrible, horrible way.

It really does. Now on May 12th, Paul was brought in by police because they were acting on a tip that he was an aggressive asshole. And once again, they dismissed him as a prime suspect in what was now being called the schoolgirl murders. Because Leslie's remains were exhumed and the medical examiners found bruises and injuries on the back of her that had similarities

to the blunt force injuries on Kristen French's body. Uh-huh. Because again, they were like raped and beaten. These girls were put through hell. Now, this is the first time that the police did connect to these two murders when they exhumed Leslie's body. Niagara Regional Police worked with the Halton Regional Police and they established a task force

to conduct the investigation into the two crimes at this point. So on July 21st, a reenactment of Christian French's abduction was shown on TV because they wanted to see if anybody jog more memories. Yeah, I was gonna say. You see this. The reenactment generated thousands of tips, but they didn't really get any solid leads out of it. So on January 6th, 1993,

Carla was admitted to St. Catherine's General Hospital after Paul had beat her viciously with a flashlight. Oh, damn! The photos of this are insane. Yeah. Like she has two of the blackest eyes I have ever seen and is covered in bruises. Wow. So that is legit.

He was arrested and charged with assault with a weapon and then released on bail. Oh, interesting. Right. This is when the family of Carla finally convinced her to leave him. She moved back in with them, and this is when things started to unravel. Oh no. The Niagara police became involved in the domestic situation, and so they brought Carla in for questioning about it. Now they were already beginning to suspect that Paul had been involved in the Scarborough rapist crimes because remember he had been taken in and

questioned about them before but they let him go. So I think they kind of put their radars up like, huh, if he's capable of this, then let's investigate the connection further. Right. So a month later, the center of forensic sciences finally matched his DNA that he gave willingly, like, I think like a couple years before that. Yeah, years. Finally matched it with that of the Scarborough rape.

No way. Yep. So this is when police put Paul under surveillance and tapped his phone. Oh damn. Now, when Carla was questioned by police, it was by the two detectives that were leading the Leslie Mahaffee and Kristen French murder investigation. They were not asking her about the murders. They were asking her about like the domestic assault stuff.

But everyone knew who these two detectives were because they were all over the news. Because these murders were everywhere. They were huge. Did Carlin? So these detectives, well, that's the thing. So Carlin knew who these dudes were. Oh.

Well, that was a great part of that. And so she freaked the fuck. Well, they did it to kind of put it a point out there like we know what you're doing, but we're not going to know. Oh, okay, so they kind of did it to like, yeah. So Carla freaked the fuck out and refused to talk because she assumed they knew everything. But then she went to her uncle and spilled her guts. She claimed they both did everything,

but that Paul was abusing and manipulating her into it the whole time. Uh-huh. She then told him that Paul was the Scarborough rapist. Oh my God. So then Carla got a lawyer, George Walker, and she confessed everything to this lawyer, but she did it with always framing herself

as the innocent victim just being forced into it. Right. I got into this and I owned for you. Well, I did it because being abused. Yeah. So she agreed to testify against Paul on the condition of being granted immunity from prosecution. The attorney general for Ontario would not agree to immunity.

Thank God. Yes, seriously. But was willing to consider a reduced sentence, which at the time made sense, but later bites them in the butt so hard when they get all the fucking exact footage. So she was offered two 12-year, I've heard 10-year or 12-year and I couldn't figure out exactly which one it was. I'll say two 10-year sentences which she could serve at the same time, which means she wouldn't serve 20 years,

she would serve 10. Two 10-year sentences. She's not even make any sense. And she would serve those for the murders of Leslie and Kristen, and another two years would be added on for Tammy's murder. That's it? Yes. Because they were still referring to that.

It's like an accidental death. Oh. That's it? Yes. Because they were still referring to that as like an accidental death. Oh, like, and she would get the chance at parole after just three years. Now now what it like was fucking Robert Kardashian her fucking lawyer. It's because she was saying she will sing like a bird and tell them everything. That's unreal. Now this deal is officially known as the deal with the devil. And it makes sense now, but it'll make even more sense when it totally unravels. So on February 17th, Paul was arrested for the murders of Leslie and Kristen and the Scarborough rapes.

This is when they got the warrant for their home as well, and they found a journal that Paul kept which detailed every single one of his crimes because he is a big creepy fuckhead. Ew. Yep. Along with the journal, they also found a bunch of like what they referred to as deviant sexual books, a hunting knife, handcuffs, and a video of Paul and Carla engaged in sexual activity with two unidentified young women.

Oh my god. Carla was clearly a willing participant in both of these encounters. Now these are the two that I believe, the Jane Doe. Oh, okay. She was clearly a willing participant in them. She said, the police said in the video, she is smiling, happy, relaxed. She had painted herself as this,

I was beaten and manipulated into it, but she was having a blast. And the video clearly showed differently. Showed it. Now, she did admit to the police that one of the girls in the video had been drugged and was later unaware that she had been raped. Okay.

Because she found that out later. Oh, no. No. At this point, they didn't find the mother load of tapes yet. I wouldn't even want to know. I know. Can you imagine finding that out later? No.

Like, and finding out that it's on video tape. That's horrible. It's the same, the toybox killer. This is very reminiscent of that. That happened to a couple of them that they didn't even know it. Yeah. Now, while undergoing psychiatric evaluation before her trial, Carla wrote this letter to her parents and her surviving sister, Laurie, on April 13, 1993.

Please don't read it in her voice because it makes me so angry. I won't because it's slightly long and I can't hold you that breathy voice. Yeah, it made me want to like die earlier. So this one says, Dear mom, dad and Lori, this is the hardest letter I've ever had to write, and you'll probably all hate me once you've read it. Poo fucking hoot.

I've kept this inside myself for so long, and I just can't lie to you anymore. Both Paul and I are responsible for Tammy's death. Paul was, quote, in love with her and wanted to have sex with her. He wanted me to help him. He wanted to get sleeping pills for work from Muck to drug her with. He threatened me and physically and emotionally abused me when I refused. No words I can say can make you understand what he put me through.

So stupidly, I agreed to do what he said. But something, maybe the combination of drugs and the food she ate that night caused her to vomit. I tried hard to save her. I'm so sorry. But no words I can say can bring her back. I have stopped many times of killing myself, but I couldn't put you through the pain of losing another daughter and sister again.

I don't blame you all if you hate me. I hate myself. I live with the pain of knowing I unintentionally killed my baby sister every day. I think that's the real reason I put up with Paul's abusive behavior. I felt I deserved it for allowing him to drug and rape my beautiful baby sister. I loved her so much and never wanted to do anything to rape my beautiful baby sister. I loved her so much and never wanted to do anything to hurt my tamaskins. Please believe me. I would gladly give my life for hers. Nothing I can do or say can bring her back. I don't expect

you to ever forgive me for I will never forgive myself. Carla. XO XO. Except remember that time when you're on film saying that you really Super stoked that she does that whole thing but like when you read that you're like wow What a selfless angel she is to spare her family of the loss of her too No, because we wouldn't want her family to lose her. Oh, yeah, like how sweet that she did that so beautiful Like when you read that part I got in. And when you see the loss of me, like really? And then also, like, they're going to jail. And also, like, they're losing you.

Does her family talk to her? I don't know, actually. Also, when she's like, I'd gladly give my life for hers. Well, from what you're saying, Paul was like abusing you and hurting you and you were scared, so you killed your sister instead. And it's like, so why didn't you just let him kill you? Yeah, exactly. If you would have given your life for hers, like, yo, you had the chance. And you just said that, but you said you were too scared of him to do. Like, what? Okay, you're done. So, so that was beautiful. Now the trial of

Paul didn't begin until like two years later and this is when the tapes were finally discovered, a little before his trial. On May 6, 1993, Paul's lawyer retrieved six eight millimeter tapes that had been hidden in their home. They were not turned over to police until September 22nd, 1994. So that is his lawyer was the one who found them and kept them. The tapes showed in graphic detail the rape of Tammy Humoka and the torture and rapes of Leslie Mahaffey in Kristen French. What's weird is Carla appeared to be real consenting and real psych to be there. In all of them.

She didn't seem frightened, forced, or abused at all in any of them. And by this time, the case was huge. It was like dominating the headlines. It was on all the news things across North America. News of these tapes immediately made people go flipping mad because the media was now accusing the prosecution of making the deal with the devil because Carlo only got a 12-year sentence for her role in

these crimes but she was exactly this I mean she was literally an equal participant of Paul. So Paul was gonna get this harsh sentence which he should get, but she should have had the same sentence. Why couldn't they go back like based on the new evidence? Well, unfortunately, the crown said, it's obliged to stand by its agreement. Like it, or excuse me, obligated to stand by its agreement. So they just said this is the way we have to do it.

We made an agreement with her, we can't go back on it. Why? It's just the law. They can't just like, farts around with it, they have to go by it. So, yeah. Unfortunately, I mean, she got like the deal of century. Literally. Because she was like, oh yeah, I'll tell you everything. I'll tell you everything. Just give me this reduced sentence. It's fine. I'll give you everything. I'll testify against him. It's fine. And they were like, cool.

We'll do that. And then all of a sudden, this butt load of tapes that literally show her and him. They show them all the details that she was giving them. Right. Except the real details. They didn't need her at all. So it's like, they literally, like they had free reduced

sentence. She got a free one because they didn't need her at all. Now, let me see. Jury selection for Paul's trial began on May 1st, 1995. In the crown opened its case on May 18th. The trial lasted four months. During the trial, Carla spent 17 court days in the witness box. Oh wow.

Testifying against Paul. Paul was found guilty on all the charges against him. Two counts each of first degree murder, kidnapping, forcible confinement, and aggravated sexual assault. And one count of committing an indignity to a human body for Leslie's dismemberment. Right. He was sentenced to life in prison, which

is about 20 years in Canada, Iment. Right. He was sentenced to life in prison, which is about 20 years in Canada, I believe. Okay. But he was later declared a dangerous offender, which makes it pretty unlikely that he will ever get paroled. Good. Because once you get labeled that, it's like, forget it. They're not going to let you out. Right. And he's been denied parole every time. Five years later, in the year 2000, both the Ontario Court of Appeal and the Supreme Court of Canada turned down his efforts to appeal his murder convictions. And in 2006, his lawyer said his client had confessed in 2005 to 10 additional sexual assaults. Oh, uh, since 2013, Paul has been making his home at the Mill Haven Maximum Security

Prison in Bath, Ontario. Yay. So, Carla served every day of her own prison sentence, 10 years, plus an additional two years for the involvement in the death of Tammy. Although she was in this, this will make you rage. A model of the season. No, no she wasn't. Actually, she was never officially a charge, charged or convicted in the involvement of her sister's death.

Are you serious? Never officially charged. Why? Isn't that insane? I don't know she just never was. That's unreal. Initially, they put her in a rehab-oriented women's facility in Joliet, Quebec. And it was apparently a pretty nice facility that she was living it up in. But we a rehab facility? Like a rehab-oriented

women's facility. Interesting. Now, then photos were leaked of her in this jail, and they were published in the media. Yeah. And it showed her like living this very nice cushy lifestyle in there. People went bonkers in Canada. Like what made it cushy? I mean, she was literally like doing whatever,

she was not in jail. Like, this was not a prison. It was literally like, she had all these things, she had all this freedom, she just wasn't, she was clear. And in the pictures, she's clearly smiling, having a blast. Yeah, after you fuck to kill me. That happens in Canada, Jails. Oh yeah, but then under pressure, she was quickly moved to a decidedly less cushy facility, which was, um, conjoined with a men's prison, where she came into, so good on Canada for listening to people being like, what the fuck?

Moving her. When she went to this new prison, she came in contact with an inmate named Jean Paul. I think it's probably Gerber, but it's... Okay. Gerber, Gerber. Gerber, probably. Now, this guy was known in the media as, quote, Gerbet. But it's Gerbet. Gerbet. Gerbet. Gerbet. Now, this guy was known in the media as, quote, another Paul Bernardo.

Oh, goody. He was convicted of strangling his girlfriend, Kathy Carretta, in a jealous rage. Now reportedly, this guy, and Carla, had a steamy affair in prison. How does that even happen? How does that even happen? How does that even happen? How does that even happen? How does that even happen?

How does that even happen? How does that even happen? How does that even happen? How does that even happen? How does that even happen? How does that even happen? How does that even happen? How does that even happen?

How does that even happen? How does that even happen? How does that even happen? How does that even happen? How does that even happen? How does that even happen? How does that even happen? How does that even happen? How does that even happen? How does that even happen? How does that even happen? How does that even happen? and she was giving him her underwear. That's disgusting. So they were like, clearly this woman has a huge problem

because like she's in prison right now and she's involved with someone exactly like Paul Bernardo. Right. Like she's got a problem. She's a sick, sick person. Yeah. Now when she applied for parole, her relationship with this guy was listed as one of the reasons that her court request was denied. Oh wow, that's crazy. Yeah, and they wrote in a quote, you have secretly undertaken an emotional relationship with another inmate. An evidence gathered seems to indicate that this relationship rapidly became sexual, the panel stated. Oh, so they were like, you're a wreck. We can get it together, Carla.

Yeah. She was also denied parole with only less than a third of her sentence left, because they deemed her to be, quote, too high risk to offend, reoffend. Both, so she had, how many months before she had a less than a third of her sentence left, and they were like, no, we're not convinced that you won't reoffend.

But then she was let out. Yeah. So it's like, she is 100%. According to them, she's dangerous and re-offend. But then she was let out. Yeah. So it's like she's 100%. According to them, she's dangerous and will re-offend. Right. Now she was released on July 4th, 2005. There was clearly a media frenzy. Camer crews were like staked out at the prison.

Yeah. I mean, she was literally like the most hated woman in Canadian history. So... Now right after she was released, she legally applied to change her name, but the request was denied. Oh, which is awesome. Within a year though, she married a guy named,

I'm getting it, this name is kind of strange to me. But theory, THI, E-R-R-Y, yeah. Theary, I don't know. It might be like Tyree. Tyree, maybe. Bordelis. He was a French Canadian citizen who was also the brother of Carlos lawyer. Oh, interesting.

She married the brother of her lawyer. Weird. Really fucked up. Now people went crazy at again when it was reported that less than two years after being released from prison, she gave birth to a baby boy. Hate that. This monster who had taken part in the murder

in rape of three children now has children of her own. Yeah, that's fucking gross. Currently, she has three of them, which ironically, one for each of the life that she took. Yeah, fuck that. Like, she has one child for each life that she extinguished. Isn't that insane? I just can't even imagine the fact that she's a mother.

Like, one. Well, that's in this to me shows what a piece of shit she really is to, because she chose to have kids knowing that these kids were going to be the ones to pay for her shit. Right. Like she can pretend to be someone else and pretend to have a different name and all that shit, but they can't pretend that's not their mom. With people being a rapist and murderous child. They're always gonna have to deal with this. And if she was rehabilitated at all, then she would have foregone having kids and spared them with a hundred percent. She would have been like, you know what, it's not, it wouldn't be fair of me to bring kids

in the world. She was not rehabilitated. But she doesn't give a shit. Now, she sometimes calls herself Emily Bordeleus or Leanne Teal Bordeleus. That's what she seems to be known mostly as. She still lives in Canada, namely Quebec. And it's said that Leanne Teal was the name she was going to use when her and Paul spoke about running away at one point and changing their identities. So it's in like a weird way. She's showing that she's still attached to him. Yeah, like using that name. That's iconic. She was actually volunteering at her kids school for a spell But since parents found out they were like, yo, we don't feel super comfortable having a monster who raped and murdered young girls including her own teenage sister around our kids. Yeah, no

Quickly put a stop to it and she was officially banned from volunteering at the school anymore. Like I I'm sorry, who the fuck does Carla Homoco think she is? Like, are you kidding me? You say Tana Cameroid? She seriously thinks she has the right to be around other people's children? Like, you should have been sterilized yourself. Yeah, she won 100%. I wish that that was a thing that was like... If somebody committed a crime not horrible, they should be steril somebody committed a crime that horrible they should be sterilized She honestly she really should be sterilized especially if they got the deal of a century and we're gonna be able to get it out Like she got our

Teams and conditions are that you can never have children. Yeah, you shouldn't ever be able to bring another life into this world No, like she is such an infuriating pubic lesion sack of shith Like, she is such an infuriating pubic lesion. Sack of shits. Uh, the poor families of Leslie and Kristen, like, they have to know that her rapey ass is hanging out around kids. And, like, fucking her family. Like, you get to live your life and be a PTA mom while they still mourn the children that she stole from them. That's so fucked up.

Ingrown toenail. Let me tell you so much. Those are horrific. Yeah, and she is one. She so fucking ingrown toenail. Let me tell you so much. Those are horrific. Yeah, and she is one. She is an ingrown toenail. She's worse. Luckily Canada does things correctly, and they have been keeping tabs on her shit since she was released. So now she doesn't fart without a Facebook post. We written about it and shared to keep everyone on the lookout like good job Canada you guys rule. There's literally a Facebook group that's like watching Carla come home and they like I'm tired to be like this is where she is now. What do they do to her? Uh I mean she gets harassed a lot and she gets and what she should and I mean she's always

getting hounded by people but finally if you're in need of some advice on taking care of your own children, Carly tends to frequent a parenting message board on babycenter.com. And if you've ever gone online and you've looked up a question, like for the parents out there that are like, if you've looked up like, hey, is my baby's poop supposed to look like that? A lot of a lot of the first things to come up will be these like forums where other parents answer questions. Right. One of them is one very popular one is baby center. I've been on it. I have I have never written a question but I've gone in there to look for answers to questions. And she posted on there under the name. Carla?

Yes. Under the name Love You Forever. To me, that's definitely the ball. Yup. 100%. And she also, so she was, what she would do is she would answer questions and like, involve herself in format discussions,

forum discussions and all that. And at one point, she got kind of snarky with someone who I don't know the whole message because I only saw a screenshot, but someone had said like, labor or pregnancy, labor and childbirth was like a life threatening situation, which it is technically.

And Carla came back like super snarky and was like, oh, he like basically like bullying this poor woman who said this and being shot, not me. Yeah. And being like, are you fucking kidding me? Like blah blah blah. She was wicked nasty about it. So then all of a sudden under her reply, someone replies to her under the name Kristen French. Oh my God, that's amazing. And this person wrote, Yeah, a life-threatening condition, or life-threatening situation is when you rape and murder someone.

Oh my God. And I was like, savage. Like that is so savage. The fact that someone is trolling her on baby center under the name Kristen French Is amazing and then also this person who made this profile Had her because in these like forums if you make like an account a lot of the times these women will put their due dates On their like little like signature thing She put her due date as Kristen French's birthday.

Oh, wow. So she really hammered it in. I'll see if I can find the screenshot, and I'll post it on our Instagram, because it's very interesting. Now, also, in perhaps most satisfying in this frustrating case, because I know it's frustrating, Carla now has full-blown bulldog

on a hot summer day neck jowls that no amount of nipping and tucking in fix. Oh, does she like gobble gobble bitch. That's amazing. I didn't even look at what she looks like now. If you get any profile of her like anywhere she's turned to the side you're like YOOOOO! That's a rough YOOOOO! Your life has definitely been worn on your face. Oh wow.

So yeah, that is the story of Carla Hamoka in Paul Bernardo. The story that I just really, it's stressed. Oh, and just as a quick little like last thing, a lot of people were commenting about the ridiculousness of how they claimed Tammy's chemical burn on her entire face was caused by a rug burn. Yeah, that's just bananas. And people, a lot of people were commenting

on the picture being like, are you kidding me right now? Now, I saw an interview with Carla where she says that she thinks that the chemical burn was from the acidic aspects of Tammy's vomit because she said that she never held the cloth on her face. Well, what? Right in the same interview the police officers like yeah except I watched the video and you didn't watch you hold the tour face so she literally like lies out right and then they're like yeah no so she tried to lie about that too and be like oh yeah that wasn't a chemical burn no way. I hate her. But it was. So yeah so that is the case, the conclusion of Carla Hamoka and Paul Bernardo.

I'm so glad that one's over. What a fun ride that was. And by fun. Say it again. What a fun ride that was. And by fun. And by fun. I mean, nightmarish and horrific. Yeah that was terrific. Well if you want something less horrific and disturbing you can go ahead and follow us on Instagram at morbid podcast but you'll probably see a lot of horrific and disturbing stuff there too. But it will be joyous. You can follow us on Twitter at a morbid podcast. You can send us a Gmail morbid podcast at gmail.com.

You can join our Facebook page. morbid a true crime podcast, which by the way, the Facebook page is super red. And I've been going on there just to peek at everything that everybody's posting and it's awesome. I love it. Yeah, if you're missing out on it, it really sucks. It's a really fun place.

It's a cool little community. It is. You can also donate to our Patreon if you feel so inclined and you love us and you want us to appreciate you past 1,000 sons. patreon.com slash morbid podcast. And you can go check out the lovely website that my lovely co-host so beautifully designed at

Yeah morbid podcast calm minus the yeah We hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it Weird But not so weird that you're I just you know, I'm not really for it guys today, sorry. There's nothing funny about this one. There's nothing funny about any of them, but... No, but this one in particular is just, there's not a little levity in it except for Paul's hair. But not so much for the show.

But not so weird that you have Paul here with girls' girls, but... Oh, bye! Bye! Step. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. What makes a person a murderer?

Are they born to kill? Or are they made to kill? I'm Candace DeLong, and on my podcast, Killer Psychie Daily, which you can find exclusively on Amazon Music. I share a quick 10-minute rundown every weekday on the motivations and behaviors of the criminal masterminds you read about in the news. I have decades of experience as a psychiatric nurse, FBI agent, and a criminal profiler.

On Killer Psychie Daily, I'll give you my expert perspective on cases like the mysterious New York City drugings, Breaking Down Lori Valow, a.k.a. Mommy Doom stays motives and what drove Caitlin Armstrong to murder? I'll also bring on expert guests who add even more insight into these criminal minds. I promise you won't regret adding these 10 minutes to your morning routine.

Hey, prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psychie Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today. your morning routine. Hey Prime members, listen to the Amazon Music exclusive podcast Killer Psychie Daily in the Amazon Music app. Download the app today.