Morbid - Episode 60: Kurt Cobain Part 2

Episode Date: April 18, 2019

In the conclusion to our deep dive into the death of Kurt Cobain, we talk about the crime scene in more depth, the events leading up to Kurt's eventual discovery, Courtney Love's possible role and the investigation that still has us scratching our heads. Did Kurt die by his own hand that day in his Seattle greenhouse, or was someone else behind the shotgun? This case is a real mystery....or is it? See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, Prime members, you can listen to morbid, early, and ad-free on Amazon music. Download the app today. You're listening to a morbid network podcast. Whether you're running errands on your daily commute, or even at home, you can enjoy all your audio entertainment in one app, the Audible app. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog. This includes the latest bestsellers and new releases. Plus get full access to a growing selection of included audiobooks, audible originals,

and more. If you've been wanting to form good habits, break bad ones, and improve motivation, atomic habits written and narrated by James Clear is a great lesson. It'll reshape your mindset on progress and success by helping you develop strategies to transform your habits. New members can try audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash wondery pod or text wondery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days.

That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wondery pod or text wondery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. Angie has made it easier than ever to connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Whether it's routine maintenance and emergency repair or a dream project, Angie lets you browse home on her reviews, compare quotes from multiple local pros, and even book a service instantly. So the next time you have a home project, just Angie that and start getting the most out

of your home. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's ANGI.com. Hey weirdos, I'm Ash and I'm Alena and this super morbid. It's actually about to get real morbid. Yeah. Because we are finishing Kurt Cobainov. Pat-to. Pat-to. Pat-to-kid.

Pat-to-kid. You just lost 400 followers. Um, so what's up weirdos? How's your week been? It's probably only like Wednesday or Thursday. Yeah, my week's special show already. Yay. I really, but this podcast isn't about just me.

It's about murder. It is. It's about murder. And do you know something that's about murder? What's about murder? Our sponsor. Whoa! Murder apparel.

Look at that segue game. I am a fucking genius. So guys, we have this cool ass fucking sponsor called Murder Apparel. There you are on Instagram. So guys, we have this cool ass fucking sponsor called Murder Apparel. There you are on Instagram and you can head over to their Instagram at Murder Apparel and you are D-E-R-A-P-P-A-R-E-L. I think I spelled that correctly. Spelling a lot makes me nervous, anyways.

And if you go to their Instagram and then click the little link in their Instagram bio, it will lead you to their shop where you can look at all their fucking cool shirts and if you want to buy some you should because guess what You'll get 25% off you will if you use our code morbid mo r b-i-d. Do you get nervous when you spell? Not that one cool I guess I've spelled that in each accent. Yeah, that would be nice. So yeah guys, you really should go check them out.

I posted, I sure thought I was wearing by them, and they have wicked cool shit. Yeah, it's all true crime, goodness, horror, goodness. It's everything that all of you love and cherish, deep in your heart, so I think that you are going to fall in love with them. There's a lot of Freddie Krueger up in there. Yeah. There's a shirt that says the husband did it.

I have it. Just go. Go get that. That's what the husband did do it. Go get it. So in other news, we are going to be doing a Q&A for our petronuses. I've asked you guys a bunch of, like,

give me your time zones and your days and your best times and all that good stuff And all of you were awesome enough to answer me. So I'm going to take all those I'm gonna compile them. I'm gonna put them through an intricate computer system that I don't have and doesn't exist Cool, and we're gonna come out with a perfect goddamn day and time for everybody per fact and if And by everybody, I mean as many people as I possibly can. Are we gonna try and do it like next week? I think we're gonna give that a shot. Cool.

So look forward to it next week guys. I will let you know on all our accounts. So you'll be well aware and on the Patreon. But thank you for being so awesome and giving me all the times when I asked for them. You guys are the best. We fucking love you. We'll also be having a bonus episode for you guys coming out very shortly. We'll shout out Patrons at the end of the episode. Yes, Patronuses are going to get your day in the sun at the end of the episode, so stay tuned. And I think we should just jump right into Carcobain Part 2.

One, two, three, go. So I think when we last left you guys, we were talking about the crime scene. We didn't give like super deets, but we were... We gave you the basics. We were giving you the basics of what was going on and we were kind of teasing you with... We're gonna give you some details. This week we're getting into it. Yeah, you are gonna get details.

So hang tight. Detail city. Now, I'm gonna start off with the coroner. O'Cour, Dr. Nicholas Hartshome is inaccurately labeled as a coroner in a lot of places actually. Because I keep seeing articles that are like the coroner, in this case, the coroner, in this case, the coroner, in this case, he wasn't a corner. So there's that. He's also dead now. So RIP, RIP to that. He

died in a crazy based jumping accident, because he was known as Dr. Death, not to be confused with the podcast, but he liked doing like crazy, you know, he would like skydive, base jump, do all that shit. He was like an adrenaline junkie. We can't really talk to him anymore, but. Fommer. Yeah. So, the thing with the coroner label that just kind of bugs me, because maybe it's because I work in like the death industry. I literally cannot. I don't know what else in the industry.

The death industry. What do you do for work? I'm actually in the death industry. I am. So I think it just bothers me when terms get like misconstrued and like flipped around. So coroners tend to be elected officials who like consult with forensic pathologists on autopsies. They don't have to be medical doctors. Okay.

Was he a doctor? He was. He was a doctor. So, from what I can tell, Seattle has a medical examiner, which are medical doctors specializing in forensic pathology. Sure. So, they went through a specialized forensic pathology program to become medical examiners. Got it.

That's just a note. Other than this, Dr. Hartchome was the first, you know, medical professional to arrive at Kurt's death scene, and he did the autopsy. But he was only employed at the time by the medical examiner's office on a single year forensic's fellowship and had not yet taken the accreditation examination To become a certified medical examiner. That's fucked like he was essentially in a print. He was just he was on his way and I mean Hey, he maybe he knew all his shit and he right who I mean he did become a medical examiner

So he he knew what he was doing But at the time he was only 30 years old Like that's yeah, that's younger than me He knew what he was doing, just having a time. But at the time, he was only 30 years old. Like, that's younger than me. That's amazing. No, I gave you that look. I hear like, wait, what? But he was essentially just an apprentice medical examiner.

And when he shows up on one of the most insane death scenes ever, like the most high profile, they should have never sent a fucking intern over that, you know what I mean, it's just crazy to me. And since the Seattle PD had already labeled this a suicide from the jump, because they walked in there and were like suicide, and then they just, that's it. They were like, let's go to launch. It was probably going to be tough for this like little dude on the totem pole to disagree with these, you know, veteran police officers and homicide detectives that were like this

is a suicide. Right. So, and especially, like I said, given the profile of this case as well, there was too much that he was being influenced by. Also the lead detective on Kurt's case was one of his closest friends, and so was Courtney Love. That's weird. Yeah. And he dabbled and banned promotion. Interesting.

And he actually promoted shows from Nirvana at one point. What? Yeah. Isn't that considered like a conflict of interest? Of interest. I don't know. I feel like that is a little weird. I would think so for sure. It's like if you get an autopsy of someone

that you're like best friends with, like, should you opt out of that? I don't know definitely Well, they did opt out of it. Yeah, that's true it well and There are some reports that say not only was he friends with Courtney love But he had a weird infatuation with Courtney love which I don't understand It's fine So if he had a weird infatuation with Courtney Love or if he even had a stronger relationship with Courtney Love, that could point to him.

Wanting to push this case in Courtney Love's favor. Yeah. Just saying. Not saying he did. I'm just saying he could. Just saying he could. Now since the cops had already labeled this a suicide from the jump, like I said, obviously this was going to cloud all judgment when it came to actually investigating this case and scene as anything other than a suicide. In fact, according to Vernon J. Geberth, a retired lieutenant commander of the NYC Police Department, this is kind of a proven phenomena. Like it happens. He wrote a standard textbook on crime scene protocol and in it he sites dozens of examples of murders that were staged as suicides and went totally undetected and

Under investigated because of lazy police work, right and this guy's a lieutenant commander retired like He was a police officer. He was like I know how this should go He's not being a dick and just being like yeah cops are cops are lazy. He was like, I was a cop. I was a lieutenant commander. I know how this goes. And it is a thing that happens. So he said, quote, I have personally investigated many such cases. And the truth of the matter is that initially,

the cases did look like suicides. The investigator cannot assume anything as a professional law enforcement officer. He said, when they do that, everything goes to hell. And he even admitted, quote, without a doubt, investigators take shortcuts when they hear the words suicide. Oh man. So he's literally saying like, these cops could have gone in there and just been like, all right, let's just, let's snip some ends here. Let's just get this done because obviously this guy just blew his head off. Bye. Like, we don't have to worry about.

But if you actually looked into it, you would realize it's not even possible. Which is what we're gonna do. What we're doing right now. So let's move on to Tom Grant. My boy. I'm not gonna go into super detail about Tom Grant. I am. I'm gonna leave that to Ash.

You're welcome. But I'm just gonna give you a couple little things that we're like, huh? So Tom Grant is the private investigator that Courtney hired to, quote, find her husband. Loki, the biggest mistake she ever made. This was in Kirkrow, mate. This was in doing heroin while pregnant. Yeah, huge. That was a pretty big mistake.

Big mistake. Yeah, huge, huge. So I love saying that. And this was after Kurt had, you know, escaped Exodus rehab center. Right. When he went, quote, missing. And that's who she hired to try to, quote, find him. Like he wasn't missing.

He just didn't want to talk to him. He just went home. But he was also a former detective in the LA County Sheriff's Department. So just to give his little background credentials, he's not just so crazy. That's like, I'm a providah. He actually, and his record record is the cleanest. Yeah, like his record as a policeman. Yeah, like he's no joke.

So Grant already had doubts about Courtney because when Courtney pretended to be Kurt's mom to call the missing's persons report in alleging he was suicidal, which was so fucked up. He saw that as a diversion to make sure Kurt was immediately painted as such. In the media. Which is exactly what happened.

Literally. Because obviously if his mom is calling and saying, my son is missing and I know he's suicidal. And it's his mom. It's his shotgun. Yeah. You're going to believe mom when he says, my son is suicidal.

And she knew that. But mom didn't say that. So Grant already was like, this is weird. So at one point, Grant went on the Tom Lakers radio show and he flat out is said with no punches, Polds that he thinks Courtney love and Michael Callie do it, which we talked about. Yeah, and we, we mentioned him in the last episode. He's the junkie, Liv and Nanny, who is also Courtney's ex. Good. Super awesome person to pick as a nanny

He was also definitely infatuated but they're 100% he believed that Courtney and Cali do it were involved in some way in the conspiracy to kill Kurt He didn't say they held the gun. He didn't say they pulled the trigger. He just said they know something. I want to know And they're involved Now how did love respond to this? I mean, you would think he's saying this accusation. She would go fucking off. Be a soft, yeah. And in response to it, she just offered him more work

as like more private investigation jobs. Which is like, obviously, you're trying, it's hush money. When he said, and he literally said he was like, this was hush money. Right. Because if she went nuts, she knows I'm investigating. I know what's like I have I I'm on the right trail. And so she doesn't want to piss me off. Right. Because she wants to hold it's like you keep your enemies closer. Keep your friends close. And you're not

unfortunately kind of smart. She's you know what she is? She's that kind she's that diabolical. Yeah, tricky. Cunning. Like you know she's that that kind of smart that can go really good or go really bad and you choose which way you're gonna take it and she clearly took it one way so let's move on to the gun now because I did a lot of research about this gun guys yeah she did the gun was a Remington M1120 gauge shotgun. The shotgun wasn't examined by the Seattle PD until a full month after his death on May 6, 1994. Which is insanely ridiculous.

Like what? In which proves that they went in there, went suicide, and through that gun and evidence storage, and we're like, boom, not gonna touch that again. Well, when they did finally get the fuck around to it, there was supposedly only smudged fingerprints that were completely unidentifiable. Which, oh that doesn't make any sense. So it seemed like someone had attempted to wipe it clean.

But how did that happen if Kurt had already shot the gun into his mouth? So I have a theory. What is your theory? What I think is Kurt was like levitating above right after he killed himself and he was like wait a second Whoa, I got to fuck this up a little bit. Yeah, I got to stir up the pot. I'm gonna wipe that halfway Only halfway just to throw people off That's what I think happened. I think that's what happened or He did shoot himself in the mouth with the shotgun. And then so that happened. Sure. But then he was like, oh hold on, I'm just

gonna wipe this gun down real quick. And then he laid down and died. Oh, yeah. No, I think that's it. That makes a lot of sense. Especially I think it was after he impaled himself because the shotgun was like way too long because it wouldn't have even fit in his mouth Anyways, so after he had impaled it through the back of his skull. He was like whoa whoa whoa And he just pulled it out real quick. I was like wipe wipe wipe. Then he died exactly. Yeah, that's what happened except not at all Makes a lot of sense. No, it doesn't and the thing is there should have been at least one of Kurt's fingerprints on that gun at least one It was his gun and they're telling me that he shot himself with it. Where are his fingerprints?

I have questions. And it's not like he shot himself while being like, where, where, where, and like moving his hand all around the bank. Like, fuck. That doesn't make any sense. No, it doesn't. None of it does. No.

Well, in the original police report, they also said that there was evidence on Kurt's hands that proved he had discharged the weapon himself. So to further prove this. Mm-hmm. Like GSR, you know, CSI, that's it. Guns something residue, right? And yeah, exactly, gun, it's gunshot residue.

Yes. Wow, the fact that I couldn't do it. Guns something residue, it does make sense. Oh my god, it does. Now, two full years after this police report came out, the Seattle PD admitted that this was actually just bullshit that was put in the report by a rookie cop on the scene. Are you kidding?

So they literally lied about it on the original police report to point this in suicide's directions. That guy's a dick. So it's like, if that doesn't make you question, whether this was a sane investigation or not, I don't know what will. I'm not saying that proves definitively. I'm just saying that should make you go, hmm, things that make you go, hmm, and fingerprints on a gun will last. So this doesn't, none of it makes any kind of sense.

Stupid. The fact that there were no legible prints and only smudged prints on that gun heavily points in the direction of somebody wiping it down. Mada. Now, let's move over to the suicide note. And I say suicide note with big, giant air quotes, quote, quote, quote, suicide note. And I say suicide note with big giant air quotes, quote, quote, quote, suicide note. Hashtag not a suicide note. Hashtag a suicide note forgery. Exactly. It was bonkers. The last bit was completely different handwriting and had a completely different tone to it as well. When I say different handwriting, I mean this

literally look like you don't look at it and go, oh that looks a little different at the end. You're like, nope. Maybe a 10-year-old child wrote that last bit. Literally a four-year-old could look at this note and be like, oh that's two different writings. It's completely different writing and it the tone shifts completely. The rest of the note mentions Courtney. How many times? None. Oh, I thought I was like a lot. I was like a lot. No, the first part of the note mentions Courtney zero terms. And it's nothing about suicide. It's all seemingly about quitting music or quitting Nirvana. And it was confirmed that Nirvana was breaking up at this time. I'll get into that a little later. Exactly. And so basically what it said, the addition at the end, that conveniently talked

about Courtney and made it more of a suicide note, said, quote, Francis and Courtney, albeit your alter, please keep going Courtney for Francis, for her life, which will be so much happier without me. I love you. I love you. But guess what? He didn't love her. He was about to fucking divorce her, and he was trying to write her out of the will. So not only does it look ridiculous, because the handwriting is bonkers, but it also doesn't make any sense.

It's not like he's rambling this weird thing. He's saying very coherent things. Well, excuse me. He quote, the person who wrote that is saying very coherent things. And because it's so sloppy looking It almost looks like somebody who doesn't know how to write like him and is trying to just saying now The couple's lawyer so Kurt and Courtney's lawyer Rosemary Carroll. I was just gonna say ash knows in the name Talk to Tom Grant herself and she told him that Kurt was planning to divorce Courtney.

She knew that. She had discussed it with him. She then urged Tom to investigate the death more. She said, the reasoning, and this is why I bring this up because it ties into the note. So she admitted that she found samples of Courtney love practicing someone else's handwriting and it was like found in her backpack. We'll post that sheet too because there's a picture of it It's I don't know how you explain that why would you ever be doing that and what it was was

Like there was notes taken out of curts like yes Yes, yes, and that were clearly like had been traced. Oh, yeah You're right. That was part of it and she would underline certain letters when it, like she'd do the letter over and over and the one that she'd underline most, like how she wanted it to look. She would underline it. Like she was, that's bizarre. And to say the least. What is weird is most of the letters that she was practicing are the letters that were

used to spell out words in the end of the suicide note. I'm going to coincidence. So weird. Man, weird, so weird. Um, if that wasn't enough, the lawyer also found a memo that Courtney had written to herself that said, get arrested. And do you know it's actually funny? It's not funny at all.

But if you watch the documentary curtain Courtney on, it's on Netflix right now. Oh yeah. Courtney wrote mem Netflix right now. Oh yeah. Courtney wrote memos for everything. Oh yeah. Before she got famous, she wrote like her ex-boyfriend, I think is on the, I didn't get super far into it. But her ex-boyfriend is on it and he like has some old diaries and like notes and stuff of hers.

And one of them is like become best friends with Michael State. Michael State, what does he have? Which is actually hilarious because she did. That's bum. And it was like get famous. Make friends with Michael State, Michael Soda's, which is actually hilarious because she did. That's boring. And it was like, get famous. Make friends with this person, do this, and she did all of it. Man, she was like vision boarding literally. Literally. She was no to vision boarding. She was vision boarding before Pinterest was vision boarding. That's crazy. Well, it turns out that she apparently she's really good at that. Yeah. She's a boarding saying because she did get arrested.

And how she did it. She got arrested after calling Tom Grant to, quote, find her missing husband when he escaped from rehab. She was arrested for drug possession and having a doctor's prescription pad in her hotel room. And why didn't she know? That's the perfect alibi. That's so weird. To be like, I didn't kill him. I was in jail. Ask these cops. They'll, they'll, they'll be, do you think she said it just like that?

I think she literally asked, I was in jail. I was in jail. How do you? Ask these fine police. Ask these fine men of the law. I think it's on him like this. I was a mess. I was a job. I was a job. I was a policeman. I was that guy already. I was a messa, I'm a- I was a jowl. I was a jowl. I was a policeman. I was that guy already. I was a bat.

He was a bat. That was verbatim what happened. That's actually a Quirty Love is with us tonight. Now back, back to the gun, because I couldn't get past this gun, guys. I just could not. This part, everybody just sit down, okay? Yes, this part's fucking wild. Sit tight, because I want someone explaining this to me.

How this goes any other way, but murder. Hold on to your butts. Hold on to those butts. So the shotgun itself makes it really tough to imagine suicide. This particular gun is a long gun. From what I could find, the barrel is about 28 inches long, and the full gun is about 50 inches long altogether. That's fucking long. Yeah. Kurt was 5 foot 9. This makes him 69 inches long. That means that the gun is over 70% of his full height.

How the hell could he have sat down as the medical examiners notes say, put the butt of the gun between his sneaker-clad feet, place the end of the barrel into his mouth, and pulled the trigger with his thumb. He couldn't. He couldn't. He couldn't. You know why? The end of the fucking barrel would be well over his head in that position.

So he would have to literally like impale his own head with the fucking shotgun. Which didn't happen. Which wouldn't make any sense anyways, because then you chewed it out and it would just go boom. So what do you do? You know, once you impale yourself with it. Standing also doesn't make sense, because a lot of people were like, okay, maybe they had that wrong.

Maybe he was standing with the gun, and he stood over the gun, shot himself, and he fell backwards into that position. But guess what, you're wrong if you think that. And you know what, it's like, okay. Okay, I see your point, so. I get it. I mean, where? Devils advocating, I get it.

Didn't happen, though. But you know what? There's newly released crime scene photos that make that impossible. Impossible. These newly released crime scene photos show his feet and the areas around his feet. There's absolutely no blood anywhere in any of these photos.

If he was standing and shot himself in the mouth with the shotgun, blood would have been pouring out of his face onto the floor by all over his feet because of gravity. I mean, that shit would have been all over his sneakers. It would have been splattering everywhere. His sneakers are clean. There's not a drop of blood on them. Nope. So it doesn't make sense. No sense. And if you've, I mean, think about it when you get a head injury or like a mouth injury

knows anything in your skull area. You bleed so much from your head. I mean, that's just that's just fact. Shooting yourself in the mouth with a shotgun is going to produce a river of blood to come out of every orifice in your face, certainly. So it just doesn't make sense. Nope. Now, the spent casing from the shotgun is questioned a lot as well, and there's good reason for that. When Kurt supposedly shot himself with this particular gun, the shell casing would have flown out to his right because that's where the opening was for the shell to go into.

So they eject out that way. For the shell casing to land where it actually did, which was on Kurt's left side, the gun would have had to have been turned 180 degrees, meaning in someone else's hands. Now the police tried to explain this away, shockingly, by saying that the recoil of the shotgun was just so intense that it just flipped the gun in the opposite direction, so the spent

casing makes sense. Now okay, okay, okay, sure, all right, no. Except this is wrong. Wrong again. Because Cobain had deliberately purchased a low power 20 gauge shotgun, because he didn't want to just go out and kill people or anything.

He wanted to deter people from coming into his home. Right. So his main thing was he was like, I just want to scare people with this gun, and I want to just, you know, wave it around it and intrude her. I want to actually shoot someone. The shotgun was known to have a very low recoil and was actually so underpowered that even

though it had gone off in Kurtz mouth, the shot didn't exit his head. Which is why? That's how low powered this was. So it's like, that would not have a kickback or recoil that would Flip the gun in a totally different direction in his hand right now moving on from the gun Let's talk about the heroin so even if he had somehow shape shifted to get that gun into his mouth and Then somehow shot himself in the mouth with the shotgun While standing over it or laying down doing something

crazy if magic occurred in that greenhouse that day. And he and he somehow produced absolutely no blood while standing over again and shooting himself in the face. There's still an issue here. There was something like three times the lethal limit of heroin slash volume like a cocktail like three times the lethal limit of heroin slash volume, like a cocktail, in-curt's body. Now I'm just going to give a little caveat to that. Take it with a little bit of a grain of salt because that number is not 100% confirmed because the autopsy report has never been fully released. So from what I've gathered, that is what he had in his system, three times the lethal amount. That's what is reported everywhere. It was reported in the original reports, so that's what everybody's going off of. Report. Report. Now this should have incapacitated him

pretty quickly. A Canadian chemist named Roger Lewis gathered together dozens of toxicology studies regarding drug overdoses to try and find comparable cases at one point because people have been trying to do this everywhere People are trying to figure out how the hell this dude with that much heroin in his system was able to do anything never mind all the things supposedly did yeah, so of the 1526 heroin deaths that this guy looked at only 526 heroin deaths that this guy looked at only 26 had drug levels as high as

Kurt and all of them either died instantly or were immediately incapacitated and all of those ones were found with the syringes still in their bodies because they didn't even have time to remove the syringe. That's how quickly they were incapacitated. They couldn't even take the syringe. Well, not really for you. That's how quickly they were incapacitated. They couldn't even take the syringe out. They just, pfft, done. So what, like, what? So this guy, there is not one case out there that makes sense

that that would show you that this can happen. Right. Which I'm gonna get in all he was supposedly did after he adopted himself. But in 2014, the Seattle police confirmed that Cobain had indeed taken a huge lethal overdose. But they were saying, because of course they have an answer for everything. They argued that his tolerance levels were just so high that he was able to remain conscious long enough to

shoot himself. This doesn't make any fucking sense because looking at that other study, this would literally make Kurt a marvel of medicine. Like he would be a superhuman that we have never encountered in any medical study ever. Which he was a superhuman that we've never even seen. But I don't think he's a medical marvel. No, it's not. One thing Kurt Cobain is not is a medical marvel. I can say that with 100% certainty.

So that doesn't make sense. But we're gonna stay on the heroin for one more minute here. Because let's get super sciencey about heroin for a moment. Yay! Yeah? Yeah, everybody. I was like, isn't heroin cheap? Or no, I said isn't it expensive?

Somebody was like, no. No, and we were like, we know things. And I was like, drugs. Drugs, we know them. I did dare well At the molecular level. Yes, we're going to the molecular level. Is that even mean? Heroin has three active metabolites morphine a compound called three diacetylomorphine Which we're gonna call three ma'am three ma And 6 monoacetidolid morphine.

We're going to call that mom. 6M. Oh. 6M has been touted as being the initial cause of the feelings that users get upon injecting heroin. Heroin metabolizes into 6M very quickly upon entering somebody's system. And it is this metabolite, 6-mam, that actually crosses the blood brain barrier and actually heroin in its full capacity really only enters the

blood brain barrier in small amounts. So it's this metabolite, this six-mam. In fact, what a study by York-Morland, who is a researcher from the Norwegian Institute of Public Health and a professor found that when they studied the breakdown of heroin in the human body, they said after 30 minutes, six maim was the predominant substance in the blood and the brain of the heroin user. Now what this substance does is it creates a really sharp increase in the molecule dopamine in the brain. And that's why heroin users feel so fucking good for a period of time.

Like that's what they all talk about that like you fork. Dopamine will do that for you. That's what SixMam does. After about an hour, the SixMam converts into morphine. And this will stay around for hours. Morphine is no fucking joke. This shoot would have definitely caused some kind of incapacitation, regardless of how much heroin Kurt had used in the past.

One time I had to be on Morphean. Hey, there you go. I hate that. Alright Kurt. I was like never give me that shit again. Don't do it. Now instead of falling into a coma or just passing the fuck out, somehow Kurt had the wherewithal and the ability to roll down his sleeves after injecting heroin with all we know now. Put his drug paraphernalia away in the cigar box, found next to him. Neatly lay two towels on the floor, anticipating where his head would land. That's interesting.

And then lie down, fiddle with the positioning of the shotgun between his legs, and then pull the trigger effectively. That was already way too past his head. Way too past his head. And then there's just the weirdness of that decision, like in general, because heroin users don't kill themselves. Exactly. Like dot with guns. So Dr. Vincent de Mayo, one of America's like most known and most senior forensic pathologists like shout out to Vincent de Mayo I'm actually pretty sure he's on certain bleach, but I could go he probably is. Oh, I know Dr. Cyril Wicked I think his name is okay. I might be saying his name wrong and I apologize Dr. Cyril is the former president of the American Academy of Forensic Science. He studied the Kurt Cobain case for 20 years Academy of Friends' Accions. He studied the Kirk Cobain case for 20 years.

They have both said, and I quote, no study I know of has correlated the use of heroin with suicide. In fact, a myos said, quote, I cannot think of a case where I've had someone inject himself with a huge amount of heroin and then proceed to kill himself. It just doesn't make any sense. Why would he shoot himself

before the drug had had chance to even take effect? So basically if he managed to stay conscious after being a fucking medical marvel, why would he choose that moment of the greatest high of his life to kill himself? Yeah, he wouldn't because he didn't kill himself. The whole point of heroin is apparently that you feel this like euphoria, that that's why people keep going back. They just keep chasing that feeling. Right. He didn't sit around for hours after injecting himself and then get to that like shit stage of heroin. He supposedly did this immediately after injecting it where he was feeling the

best sense. He was feeling the best. That's not when you kill yourself is when you're feeling the best. I will go out on a limb and say that. I just feel like you don't do it when you're feeling the greatest high of your life. Context clues, right? Yes.

So reports also said that he barricaded himself into the locked greenhouse. So how was anyone else in there with him and able to lock the door behind them? Well, it was a push button lock, but they didn't mention that. They just said he barricaded himself in there. No one could have which is untrue Yeah, people said he was barricaded in so no one could have been in there and actually left and then locked it because It was it just doesn't make sense But again, it was a push button lock

You know the kind you can fucking push and then close the door behind you as you leave. Next. That means nothing. No. I'm just gonna point out two other weird things that I'm sure Ash can probably give us answers for and we'll touch on.

Michael Callie DeWitt was in the home when Cobain went missing. Interesting. And someone used Cobain's credit card while he was already dead. Yeah, that's interesting. He used the credit card to purchase the plane ticket after busting out of Exodus, and then it was used all the way until his body was discovered. And it's weird. And they just never been able to find what that was. Court E claim to have shut off his credit was discovered. And it was weird. Which is weird.

Which is weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was used all the way until his body was discovered. And it was weird.

And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird.

And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was weird. And it was And it was And it was And it was And it was And it was And it was And it was And it was And it was And it was And it was Ashes the only one who has this information breaking news. So there are a few things that I'll get a little more,

like you touched upon, but I will get further into. Awesome, but first I just want to say, by all accounts, Courtney was a super-dominering, controlling woman. I'm shocked. From the start, literally the only thing she wanted to do was be famous. Like she wanted to be famous, she wanted to have money. But she felt like she needed to be connected to a man to get as famous. I mean, society, I get it first year, but like girl. Well, also people

thought that Courtney was gonna be more famous, which I can't run my way around. She did too. Yeah, I think they both believe she was wrong. She was very wrong. She was wrong, because Kurt's the best buy. She's just infamous, no.? That it just wasn't the case. Exactly. It wasn't the case that she was more famous. No. So Rosemary Carroll, who we briefly touched upon earlier, was Kurt and Courtney's lawyer.

And like we mentioned last week, Kurt had asked her to remove Courtney from his will. Rosemary Carroll also told Tom Grant that Courtney had told her to find and hire the meanest, most vicious divorce lawyer that she could find. That sounds awesome. Yeah, she was in love with Kurt. Yeah.

They were gonna like totally rock it out till the end. They were just gonna rock until the end. Mode it. Next. Tom Grant felt from day one that he, this, like from day one that he was hired, that Courtney love was lying to him. The entire time he dealt with her,

he was like, yeah, I'm gonna document him. The entire time he dealt with her, he was like, yeah, I'm gonna document the fuck out of this because I know she's lying. Which is so smart. It shows how smart he is. He's like, I'm gonna make sure this is on tape. And it all is. And you guys should all, I know I've mentioned

the Curt and Courtney documentary. It's like Curt and Courtney on Netflix, but you should watch the HBO documentary, soaped and bleached because. Yeah, that's HBO documentary soap and bleach because that's a great one. Yeah, that's a great one. Yeah, and there's like a ton of tapes of Courtney that if you're not sold by our podcast, you should definitely be sold when you hear them. Yeah, you hear her actual voice saying these things.

And Tom Grant has a website where he has a lot of the recordings too. I can't remember the website, you know, but I'll post it when we post the photos for this episode. Right. So she contacted Tom Grant on the basis that Kurt had escaped rehab and he was suicidal and she knew that he had a shotgun. But her first thought was to cancel his credit cards. That was the first thing she's told Tom that she did.

She said he's suicidal. I know he has a shotgun and I canceled his credit card. Why would you cancel his credit? Like that doesn't make any sense. I can tell you um if my husband went missing the first thing I would do would definitely not be thinking about his credit cards at all It would not be think he's suicidal Yeah, he's gonna kill himself So why are you worried that he's gonna spend any money because he's probably not because he probably is gonna kill himself

Exactly that he's gonna spend any money because he's probably not because he probably is gonna kill himself. Exactly. And if you were actually worried that he was like missing, missing, you would want him to have a method of... He's getting unmeasing. Yeah. So it's like maybe let him keep those credit cards. I don't know. So that happened. Seems odd. She was super, super pushy about the fact that he was suicidal.

She made sure anyone who listened knew that hurt was suicidal. But only after he died, right? Like people said she never mentioned it until he died. Until he died or in the whole time that Tom Grant was looking for. Yeah, like until he was missing. Excuse me. Yeah. She also brought up the topic of divorce pretty much every single time she spoke with Tom Grant. Normal. She knew that he said she knew Kurt was leaving her. and then she started talking about custody battles and how Kurt wouldn't stand a chance against her Which actually isn't true because remember that time when she did heroin malpregnant. Oh yeah that time. Yeah

Quirty also brought up the idea that Kurt was having an affair with her base player actually. Whoa. Or his drug dealer named Caitlyn. I couldn't find out who Caitlyn was. Just Caitlyn. Caitlyn. But she knew his every single move. And she was super jealous. And she mentioned this to Tom Grant. And he's like, what the fuck does it have to do with me? Like he's like what?

She was pissed when he pulled out of Lala Paloza, saying that she had first been offered the gig, and she gave it all up so that he could have it. She felt like they're about to shake it. What? Like none of this is pertinent to the current situation. No, not at all. She then told Tom Grant that she planted a story in the press saying that she was hospitalized for a nervous breakdown and wanted his advice whether to confirm it or not when the press contacted her for a comment. What? Which is interesting because she also wrote that memo of get arrested.

Ah. But she already in the back of her mind was like, I'm gonna plant the story in the press. So she had multiple allies. Whoa. Multiple allies. That I didn't even know. Yep.

She felt that one, it would make fans feel sympathy for her and two, sell records because she had one coming out in about a week. How shitty of a person do you have to be to be like, I want to manipulate the entire world into feeling bad for me. Yeah, like fuck off. Go fuck yourself. Personally, I think she wanted to manipulate fans into thinking that she was such a mess

over Kurt being missing. Yep. Again, planting the idea in everyone's mind that he was suicidal. Yep. And like I said, it gave her an alibi for when he was found dead. So then we get to the Missing Persons report, which we quickly mentioned. I guess I can just reiterate to you. It went out in the media that Kurt's mother had filed the Missing Persons report

and she considered him to be suicidal and in the possession of a shotgun. Which again just plants the idea that he was suicide along the lines of his fans. Like just reiterating and reiterating. And she put it, she literally lied on a police report. Like you should be arrested for that, that's totally fine. She signed it, his mom's name, 1D, um, O'Connor, I don't remember. 1D. Oh, cool. Yeah, like, um, you lied.

That's cool. That's fraudulent, but it's okay, right? Yeah, yeah. So she's giving Tom Grant all this information about where he could be in blah, blah, blah. And he's like, yeah, I feel like it would be a good idea for me to put surveillance on the Seattle House. And she insisted that he wouldn't be there,

no, callee's there, callee's looking out because the entire time that Kurt was supposedly missing, Callie was staying at the Seattle house. Huh. Waiting for a sign of Kurt. Oh, just waiting. Yeah, just waiting. She told Tom he wouldn't be there

and that he liked to hang out in fancy hotels and he used the name Simon Richie or Bill Bailey to check in. Did you know what Bill Bailey is from, by the way? No, it doesn't. It's a quick side note. I guess that's the name that is that, it's either Axel Rose's real name. Oh, really?

Or it's the name he uses, and they used to have like some weird feud, I guess. Oh. So he would use that name just to be a dick. That's amazing. I fucking love Kirk will be so much. That is funny. So she said that he would say that, check to be a dick. That's amazing. I fucking love Kirk will be so much. That is funny. So she said that he would say that,

check in under those names. So Tom called like all these fancy ass hotels in the Seattle area and didn't find anything because didn't even like, no. His friend Dylan Carlson, who Tom was, like he was helping quote unquote Tom. Oh yeah, and Dylan's the guy who bought him the shotgun. Yeah, okay.

Yes, which I'm gonna get into Dylan later because I have my theories. Oh good. When he talked to yeah, Dylan's the guy who bought him the shot. Yeah, okay. Yes, which I'm gonna get into Dylan later because I have my theories. Oh good. When he talked to Dylan, Dylan was like, no, we fucking hate fancy hotels like Kurt. That is everything Kurt hates. I was gonna say it's like totally against what he stands for. So he showed him like all the motels that they would stay on that hotel. No, motels. Holiday in the hotel. Anyways, and they were on the Aurora strip, which is like, I guess not a nice area of Seattle. So then Tom started to call those motels, and he did find one bill belly staying at a motel. But it was a dead end, it never worked out. So when Tom went back to Courtney and was like, yeah, none of these leads are working out.

He's not in any motels. I really think that we should put surveillance on the Seattle house. She again said it was a waste of time. Callie was there and he was gonna let her know if somebody showed up. And she also, so at first she told Tom that Callie was the best liar she had ever met.

So he was like, why would you then trust him to tell you, like why would you leave him in charge of telling you when Kurt showed up? Exactly. Also why would you ever leave him in charge of your childhood? That's the thing that's killing me. It's like this literally like drug addict who you can't, you just said is like one of the greatest liars you've ever met. You're leaving with your baby. With your, like, innocent. Like what? Yeah, exactly.

So finally Tom was like, yeah, Courtney, like fuck you. I think it's really time to bring the Seattle investigation to Seattle. So it was like around April 6. And that's when Courtney told him to talk to Dylan Carlson. Dylan insisted that Kurt was in no way suicidal. And he then called Tom Grant, Dylan called Tom Grant, and said that Courtney had called him saying she was in no way suicidal. And he then called Tom Grant, Dylan called Tom Grant, and said that Courtney had called him,

saying she was in the hospital and had been arrested, but that she was okay, and they should go to the house to check in this, like, hitting compartment for the shotgun, because that's where it would be. Ah! So this is when she got arrested. This is all rolling out so perfectly.

Yeah, very. So when they got there to the Seattle House, Dylan didn't point, it was like a really dark and rainy, so Tom didn't notice the greenhouse. Say because the greenhouse wasn't like a greenhouse. It was literally like a broom closet on the top of the garage. Yeah. It was just like, it looked like a green house. And you wouldn't notice it if you didn't know it was there

Yeah, it probably just looked like part of the garage. Yeah, and especially if it's dark Right, and it was dark when they went so he didn't notice the greenhouse and Dylan didn't say anything about the greenhouse the night they went there so when they got there On the stairs they found a note that was Written by Callie it was from Callie to Kurt saying, Kurt, I can't believe you got into this house without me noticing. You're an asshole for doing this to Courtney.

Call her and tell her you're okay. And it was like, it sounded like a little bit more, but it was like very like insincere and like. It's very staged. It was very staged and they found it on the stairs. Yeah. And so it was like they found it on the stairs. Yeah. So it was like, Kurt got into the house. So it literally set it up for Kurt to walk into the house.

Callie wasn't there. He had left. I didn't even know. And I'm saying it here. So everyone knows I didn't even know you came into the house. Exactly. Wow. That's like really heavy-handed.

Yeah. It's insane. So, Tom and Rosemary Carroll, who was the lawyer, like we've mentioned, thought the note was super weird, and Rosemary Carroll said it was like Callie already knew that Kurt was dead when he wrote it. 100%. Meaning the note was there to prove an alibi that Kurt had been there, one, and two to throw Tom Grant off because if Kurt was there and he

wasn't anymore where was he then yeah then you're gonna leave also they had been to the house the night before and the note wasn't there the night before so it had been there like that morning yeah or something and they checked the um secret compartment that Courtney had mentioned and it wasn't there because not because Kurt was laying dead in the greenhouse. Yeah. Her mass they were there. Unfortunately.

Oh, that's awful. Oh, that's awful. Yeah, it's horrific. That really is awful. You searched the whole house, but you don't search. Like he knew about the greenhouse. Yeah, like he knew that existed. Right. If you were searching the whole house for your friend who's missing,

you're going to search the whole house. Exactly. So the next morning Kurt's body was found in that exact house in the green room or the greenhouse, whatever they call it, which was a little room like I said above the garage that no one had even told Grant to look into. And I mean it was Courtney's fucking house, she knew. Yeah. Like they had, they all knew that room was there. And if you're that alarmed and you can't find your husband, you're gonna check every single inch of that. Oh yeah. And you're gonna tell your private investigator to check every inch. Yes. I don't care

It like check the closet check behind shades like I'd literally be like check litter check under lamp shades He could be under the couch. He could be under like find him. Yeah, so So Tom Grant was there like he rushed over the morning that he found out that So Tom Grant was there. Like he rushed over the morning that he found out that Kurt was dead. And he pushed through everybody and went to talk to the police. And he told the police on the scene

that he had been hired by Courtney Love to track down Kurt and that he had been in the house the previous night and was told that no one had time to talk to him and to call the station later. What? And he literally said he was like, if he was a police officer, he was like if I was in charge of that investigation and a man came to me and said I was in the house that night, I would handcuff him in like a court like him get away.

He's in a meeting. He was at the scene. Right. You're at the scene of the crime and I don't have time to let. They weren't looking at us in crime. Right. You're at the crime. The crime. And I don't have time to let. They weren't looking at it. They were crime. No. So, I don't have time to talk to you. Important eyewitness was on the scene. And so he went to the station later, but they wouldn't listen to anything. He had to say that.

Oh my god. Like everything he said they hadn't answer for. Wow. And I said, like, if the police were actually treating this like a homicide investigation, which they weren't, the second they walked in, or they treated it like a suicide, they would have wanted to speak to somebody who was in force. Of course, of course they would have. And they also just recently developed photographs from the scene before that. Yeah. A lot of the photographs from the scene were not developed.

So they were just taken as like, oh well, we're here, we have the camera. And when they were questioned about it,, oh well, we're here. We have the camera. And when they were questioned about it, they said that they didn't develop photographs from suicide scenes. And that's not true. Which is not, and which is literally not true and also not standard protocol. No, no matter what you tell the photos. Yeah, evidence. And they also ruled it to be a suicide. I don't know if we mentioned this before, but they ruled it to be a suicide before ever getting the forensic of fingerprints or toxic toxicology reports or anything. That's crazy to me. They ruled they ruled the death the next day. Yeah, the next day. Yeah, they said they did the autopsy that day, but you're right. He didn't wait for tox screens. Nothing. And that is wait for anything and that is not standard. They didn't swipe the house for prints

They didn't do anything. No, and Courtney told the media that Kurt had written a suicide note to her before That said in part quote, I can't live like this anymore. It's not fun for me But that's not in the original note and a note saying that has never been released and to me that sounds like I don't want to be married to you anymore. Yeah, this is not fun for me. I feel like this marriage is shit. Yeah. And she actually, in the beginning of Soakton Bleach,

or at some point in Soakton Bleach, excuse me, she references the note to Tom and she's like, yeah, it was underneath my pillowcase. Like, I think she said it was a note from Rome, when his quote-unquote first to his attempt. The one Rome when his quote unquote first to attempt. The one that doctors agreed was not a side attempt. What's funny about that? So she said she was like it was under my pillows in the Seattle house. And Tom was like that's interesting because I checked your pillows.

I checked underneath the pillows. I checked underneath the mattress. I checked everywhere in your room and it wasn't there. And she had no explanation. She was like, she was like, no it was. And he's like, no, she was like, Tom, it was. It was in a white vanilla envelope. And he was like, yeah, I want to believe you, Courtney, but I don't. But like my two eyeballs didn't see it. Say no. It's not a thing. Yeah. So like we mentioned before before Rosemary Carol was actually working pretty closely with Tom with Tom grant And then all the sudden after she gave him the backpack that had the Handwriting stuff the handwriting samples she wasn't interested in talking to him anymore

Hmm, and there's a phone conversation where they're in the middle of talking about that Oh, I heard she goes Tom is this being recorded he said, yeah, I record all my calls. And she's, she all the sudden shuts up and won't talk about it anymore. Oh my God. And then Courtney calls him. And she's like, or so he said, he starts to send Rosemary Care all these letters.

Like, you know, like I know you know more than you're saying. And like there's, there's all these like copycat suicides. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And like you have, you could stop this if you approved that this wasn't a suicide. And she wouldn't answer him at all. She wouldn't respond.

Oh, Rosemary. And then Courtney called Tom and was like, you're really scaring Rosemary. Oh, yeah. So I paid her off. So stopped. Yeah, exactly. And so the other thing about the suicide note

is a few like analysts have looked at it. And first of all, the entire beginning part is just about his music. Yeah. It's just like Nirvana was breaking up at the time. Yeah, and because Dave Girl confirmed it. Dave Girl confirmed it. Yeah, on the Howard Stern show, I think.

Yeah, he said at the time we were breaking up. It was happening. The entire, it's literally like over two pairs, that are just talking about the music. And then the end is the only time he mentions anything about family, anything about Courtney, anything about Francis. And anything that even resembles a suicidal thought. A suicide note.

Because the entire thing is not like the whole beginning of the note is not a suicidal note. And the handwriting analysts and like the just note analysts in general, that's not a thing, but whatever you know, note analysts. Yeah, analyze notes. Like this one lady was like, it was so stereotypical. It's what you would think a suicide note would be. Yeah, which is never the case.

I, my family, like I'm leaving. I'll see you someday again. Yeah, like the exactly. The card wouldn't have fucking written it like that anyways. And wasn't they like a part in the first part where he says like my nauseous stomach. Yeah, he talks about a stomach. But his stomach pain was over at that point. Yeah, he did an interview that said like, I ate a whole pizza. Yeah, the other night. And I've never been able to do that. I feel great. Yeah. And they were like around him. We're like, he never felt better. Yeah, because he got the medicine that he needed to be treated So that doesn't even make sense. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense at all

Um, and just a quick and interesting theory is that some people believe Eldon, Elduche, Hoke had something to do with or some more knowledge about the death of Kurt Cobain Um, and he said He said that Courtney love offered him $50,000 to kill Cobain. And she said, like, my old man's pissing me off, blow his head off. Oh, which is nice. You know, couple shit. Yeah, totally. And after an interview that he gave on April 19, 1997, where he spilled this information,

and also implicated someone named Allen, he was hit by a train days later while lying drunk on the tracks. I'm sorry, but days after he gave the interview, he was found dead on the train tracks. Because he apparently got drunk and laid down on them. Which he was a pretty reckless dude. But that's real reckless. But that's like Craig Craig. And again, the coincidence. Yeah, that's just bananas. No one person has this many coincidences surrounding them at one time. No, I'm sorry, you just don't.

Like Courtney Love is not just this special unicorn that happens to have the worst coincidences around you. Courtney Love's own dad think she knows more than she says. Yeah, that's true. book. I'm dead serious Damn, but in my opinion Courtney knew that Kurt was leaving her She knew she wasn't gonna get nearly as much as she wanted because of their prenup agreement. Yep And because again, she thought she was gonna be the more famous one So she asked for that prenup. Yeah, which is so regretted it because he was making all that money

And she wasn't gonna see any of it it. Exactly. And she's a selfish, arrogant, controlling piece of shit. She had curtmordered. She had a moiter. She had curtmordered, knowing that she could make it look like a suicide based on the misconstrued lyrics and statements that Kurt had made in the past. And she didn't even need the money, but she just wanted it and courted and got what she wanted. Yeah. She didn't need that money at all. It was just a matter of her being an air-roomed. She's a musician herself. She's a band-hole. And now she has all of the royalties to Kurt's songs. That's the big thing. All of the estate money, like everything. And I'm sure she got like, like, wrongful death or

I don't even know. Yeah, but this is the song thing that I'm like, that is like the hardest pill to swallow that she has control of all the rights of the songs, especially when there's surviving members of the band. You know what I mean? And they don't have that control. Especially when he literally called his lawyer and said, can you write her out of my will? And he just didn't have time to sign it before it happened. And she probably fucking got word that he was going to write her out of the will. And was like, oh really?

I'm going to write you out of life. She didn't pull the trigger. I bet that maybe she- No, I don't- Maybe she did, I don't know. Personally, I don't think she did. I don't believe she was there. I don't think she pulled the trigger. But I think she paid solid money to think she did. I don't believe she was there. I don't think she pulled the trigger, but I think she paid solid money to somebody that did

You know, and honestly she she made damn sure that she has alibis that say she wasn't there Yeah, the other triggers, so I can say definitely she wasn't there, but I Know she knows she set it up and I know she has way more hands in this whole thing She sent Yeah, but If after all we presented you you think something different we want to hear it because we're totally open to it Well, listen to it. I mean we're not we might not agree with you I'm sort of open to it. I'm like a little open. I'm moderately close to it. I'll listen to it, but I already did

She's like listen Courtney's gonna write a fucking book just like OJ did. If I did it. If I did it. Like maybe Courtney wrote that for him. Maybe someday we will get the full story. Maybe someday, some deathbed someday is gonna be very lucrative in this. So yeah, again we're joking when we say we don't want to hear this. If you guys have any more theories, by all means, throw them our way. Let us know.

We all want to discuss it. That's what it's for. That's what the Facebook group is for too. So, discuss it. Let us know. We hope you dug Perkko Bane part two. We bet you did. We think you did.

So, we would like to thank this week's Patreons. Maybe let's think 10, just to like really do this. Let's do it. All right, so I would like to thank this week's Patreons. Maybe let's think 10, just to really do this. Let's do it. All right, so I would like to thank our new Patreon, Shan and F. Shan and F, you get an A. Oh, look at an O, you got an A. Thanks, Shan.

Thank you, Shan. I would also like to thank our new Patreon named Sarah Minks. Sarah Minks, you slamming. Oh, girl. Thank you so much, Sarah. Thanks, Sarah. I'd also like to thank our Patreon this week. Megan Ward.

Megan Ward. You're the Warden of my heart. I feel like we should give you an A Ward. We should. Huh, thank you. Love you, Megan. Thank you. I'd also like to thank you. Love you, Megan. Thank you. I'd also like to thank this week

Morgan Gruber. Morgan Gruber? You are a... a Goober. You're such a Goober. Thanks for donating. The best Goober there ever was. Thank you so much.

Thank you. I'd also like to thank our Patreon. Jessica Grant. Jessica Grant. Jessica Grant, I grant you access to my soul. Yes. Because you're that great. Thank you so much. Wow, thank you.

Thanks. Um, also Jack Slaughter. Thank you. Jack Slaughter. Slaughter. Way to just fit right the fuck in. Welcome, Jack. Welcome to the clan. in. Welcome Jack.

Welcome to the clan. Thank you Jack. Also, hey, Connor Steven Kason. Thank you. Connor Steven Kason, you are the coolest. Shit, I thought I was like wow. That was really, you know what? I just love you.

I just love you. I just love you. I just love you. I got clustered. Thank you so much. I just love you. I just love you. I just love you. I got flustered. Thank you so much. I just love you. Hey, Courtney Wilson. Hey Courtney Wilson. Thank you. Courtney Wilson girl. You just you smell great I think. I feel like you do. I don't know. She always takes it to a weird place. I would also like to think woman on top podcast. Woman on top podcast, you guys are clearly awesome. Uh duh.

Go listen to that podcast, everybody. I don't even know what it's about. But it sounds great. It's about women on top. I'm gonna start listening to that. Thank you women on top podcast. You guys rock, you are on top. Also, I would like to thank Olivia S. McKenzie.

Olivia S. McKenzie. I just, I'm speechless. You rendered me speechless. I'm done. I just love you. Yeah, thank you so much, Olivia. Thank you so much. I'm gonna say two more because I don't know how many I've said yet.

Yeah. Also, Danielle Carwowski. Wow. Wow, wow, wow, wow us away. So thank you so much. Car Welleski. Also last but not least I would like to thank Vicki and Alec Padrotti. Vicki and Alec Padrotti thank you for doing that together. Yes I love team group work. Team work makes the dream work and we love you. We make this podcast work with all of your help. Team work patronuses. Thank you and good night. Thank you so much. I love you. Love you so much. So in the meantime you can follow us on Instagram at morbid podcast. Follow us on Twitter at a morbid podcast.

Follow us on Twitter at a morbid podcast. Follow us on Facebook. morbid colon a true cram podcast and join that Facebook group because you guys are fucking awesome. And you could donate to our Patreon if you feel so inclined. patreon.com slash morbid podcast. And you could check out the lovely website that my beautiful co-host Alaina. So awesomely designed. could check out the lovely website that my beautiful co-host Alaina so awesome we designed at hey hey hey morbidpodcast.com minus the hey hey hey hey we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird but not so weird that you start to track your rock stars every move and you say oh I have to date that guy and then

you start dating that guy and then you fall in love and you get married in pajamas and then you have a baby but you did her when while you were pregnant with that baby and then all of a sudden and you get married in pajamas and then you have a baby but you did her when you were pregnant with that baby and then all of a sudden he wants to divorce you and you're like not gonna happen bitch and you fucking set up his murder and you kill this shit out of him. Oh me all know you didn't Courtney thanks by not that weird. I feel some type of way about this case. But you know what we don't know for sure. We're just saying we think Courtney can. Don't see us. Yeah, don't see us.

Bye. Hey, Prime members, you can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. What if you were trafficked into a cult over shot nine times, or fell in love with a vampire, or went into a minor surgery and woke up one week later, paralyzed. What would you do? I'm Whit Missaldine, the creator of this is actually happening, a podcast from Wondry that brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events, told by the people who lived them.

From a young man that dooms his entire future with one choice, to a woman who survived a notorious serial killer, you'll hear their first-person account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Each episode is an exploration of the human spirit and personal discovery. These haunting accounts sound like Hollywood movies, but I assure you this is actually happening. Follow this is actually happening wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wundery app.