Morbid - Episode 664: David Carpenter: The Trailside Killer (Part 2)

Episode Date: April 17, 2025

Throughout the 1960s and 70s, from Los Angeles to San Francisco, Californians were terrorized by multiple killers including notorious serial killers like the Zodiac Killer, the Hillside Stranglers, Herbert Mullin, and Ed Kemper. While the decade may have ended with these killers disappearing or apprehended, the threat of violence and murder simply moved north.Though less known than his contemporaries, David Carpenter was no less prolific and frightening a killer than those men mentioned above. Nicknamed “The Trailside Killer” by the press, Carpenter terrorized Point Reyes and Santa Cruz County for a decade, assaulting, kidnapping, and killing at least eight people, but he was suspected of more. Like those other killers, Carpenter had a long history of violent and antisocial behavior going back to his childhood, including multiple arrests and incarcerations. How was it that a man with such an alarming history of violence could go uncaught for a decade?Thank you to the Incredible Dave White of Bring Me the Axe Podcast for research and Writing support!ReferencesAssociated Press. 1980. "Trail Killer will strike again." Santa Cruz Sentinel, December 1: 1.Burkhardt, Bill. 1979. "Woman found murdered on Mt. Tam." San Francisco Examiner, August 21: 1.Graysmith, Robert. 1990. The Sleeping Lady: The Trailside Murders Above the Golden Gate. New York, NY: Onyx.Keraghosian, Greg. 2020. "'Do not hike alone': For 21 months, the Trailside Killer terrorized Bay Area's outdoors." San Francisco Chronicle, October 25.Leader, Lewis. 1980. "Identification ends dad's long quest." San Francisco Examiner, December 2: 2.San Francisco Examiner. 1960. "MP's shots foil attack on woman." San Francisco Examiner, July 13: 1.—. 1961. "Presidio attacker gets 14 yrs." San Francisco Examiner, March 10: 11.—. 1960. "Sex case insanity plea." San Francisco Examiner, October 8: 5.Santa Cruz Sentinel. 1970. "Boulder Creek girl attacked." Santa Cruz Sentinel, January 29: 22.—. 1970. "Grand jury indicts con." Santa Cruz Sentinel, July 17: 7.—. 1970. "SLV kidnap suspect flees Calaveras jail." Santa Cruz Sentinel, April 27: 1.The People v. Carpenter. 1997. S004654 (Superior Court of Los Angeles County, April 28).The People vs. David Carpenter. 1999. S006547 (Superior Court of San Diego County, November 29).Todd, John. 1980. "Tam closed in hunt for clues." San Francisco Examiner, October 16: 1.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey weirdos, before we dive into today's twisted tale, let me tell you about a place where the darkness never ends. Wondery Plus. It's like stepping into a haunted mansion where the floorboards creak with ad-free episodes and early access to new episodes lurks around every corner. So come join us, if you dare. Morbid is available one week early and ad-free only on Wondery Plus. You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or in Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

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Oh, that's like Trixie and Katya's show. Oh, yeah. Because it's their show and not yours. Oh, they're so funny. I love them a lot. They make me laugh. They're kind of like us actually. They are. I saw I don't know if it's recent or not. I saw a clip of their show the other day. And I think Katya was house hitting for Trixie. And Trixie was like a little intense and Katya was like, I can't handle this. And I was like, that is us. Not that you're intense about your home, but you're just intense period. Just intense period. Period.

And I feel like the aesthetic is very similar. But you're Katya in that sense. Yes, exactly. And I'm like, Trixie, Trixie, Trixie. Oh yeah. I don't think, I mean, we got some good stuff happening, but it's in the background and will be something you guys know about in a little while. Yeah, like months.

But like, well, but be psyched about that. Yeah. It's pretty cool. My water is loud. It's loud. My water is loud. Covering it is loud. But if I leave it uncovered, I'll throw it.

It's cool stuff happening that we'll let you know about. Don't worry. Soon enough. It's like the Tobias thing. Don't worry. You'll find out. Yeah. We'll always tell you. TLDR. Don't worry. Also, how cool was that? I know that happened weeks ago. She said, I'm just going to slide that in there.

Still very cool. How cool of, how cool was that? How cool was that? Check that out. No, that was pretty cool. But yeah. I'm trying to think of any other updates that could be coming your way. I can't think of anything right now. Anything to talk about?

I was going to apologize because I'm a little bit sick. So my voice may be a little bit annoying, but also I find it kind of sultry. I was just going to say you're sultry. Thank you. So I'm sure everyone will agree. Thank you. Yeah. That plane is flying through the sky. That plane is flying through the sky.

That plane is landing on our house right now. I apologize. She said, she really said, I'm flying. We're saying, are you okay up there? Hello. Are you all right? Yellow jackets. How's everyone doing flying?

How you guys doing? I jackets? How's everyone doing flying? How you guys doing? I'm just not period. I'm still scared, remain scared. I remain scared. Possibly scared or I don't know if I am. Drew and I are going on a trip in a couple of weeks and I will not fly. We're driving.

But how are you guys doing? Is anybody else, anybody have any tips, tricks, anything that's making you feel better about it? Right now, no. One thing I can tell you, in case anybody else shares, which I know you do, shares my fear of flying and this, you know, gestures broadly at the world has made it worse lately. Follow some pilots on TikTok.

Okay. I'll start. You know what I'm gonna do for you guys? Cause it's helped me and I wanna share the love. Wow, look at you. I'm gonna start sharing on my story, some pilots that I follow, in case anybody needs some like help getting through it.

Because Mikey's just playing music over there. He's like, shut the fuck up, Elena. You're fired. No one cares. No, but I'll start sharing it because they have helped me. They kind of bring you back to reality for the situation because right now it's so scary. But they'll bring you back to a place of at least being able to be like, okay, someday I will step on a plane again.

Well, and I think it might be helpful. Right now is obviously scary, but it's also like being so... Well, it's among everything. It's so prominent right now. And it's just among all the chaos. So I think it's definitely, because it's a problem, that's for sure. But I think it's, it can, pilots, like actual people who do this all the time, if you're listening and you're a pilot, like... We're pouring one out for you.

Superhero. Shout out. Superhero. But they can bring you to a place pilot like, we're pouring one out for you. Superhero. Shout out. Superhero. But they can bring you to a place of like, okay, like this isn't where we're going to be okay. So I'll start sharing them on my stories if you need, if you need some help because it's helpful. That's one thing I love TikTok for is like that kind of shit. Oh, bitch. I love TikTok. That's the one streaming thing I keep. Yeah. I do love a TikTok moment. I love it for the recipes, for the pilots that tell me everything's gonna be okay. I love it for organizations.

And organizations. What did you say? I said organizations. Like organizing TikTok. Those organizations. I got too much sleep last night. Sometimes that is detrimental. No, I actually believe sometimes that I perform better on less sleep.

And then I'll get more sleep and I'm like, oh, maybe don't talk to me today. Yeah, we went to, we actually went to bed at like a decent time, like upstairs to sleep because like we always just try to get like as much time. Like when the kids go to sleep, we try to like make the most of the time between then and when we have to go to bed, like get things done that we can't get done while the kids are awake. So it's like, it's hard because you want to like use up all that time. Like we'll try to watch the shows we can't watch when they're awake, you know, like all

that stuff. But it's not really great when I'm going up to bed at like midnight. Every night. So and then waking up like super duper early. Because then you wake up early with kids. So it's not really great when I'm going up to bed at midnight. Every night. So, and then waking up like super duper early. Because then you wake up early with kids. So it's like, whatever. But we went up a little early last night and I have my little watch that tracks sleep. And it told me I got like five and a half hours of core sleep. Damn.

Which I think is like pretty fucking rad. The competition girlie in me just wants to start wearing a watch when I sleep to be like, I got more sleep than you! You probably would. I would, yeah. But I'd win, so. Yeah, you would. I would feel like a win. Yeah.

I would. I feel like I wouldn't. I'll take that win. You gotta take your W's where you can get them. It's true. Right now, especially, we gotta take all the W's we can. I'll scoop that W right up. Speaking of W's and the opposite of them, which is an L.

Um, wait, what? Like a loft. The way you looked at me like, what? I was like, how is that an L? That's fair. Wow. I'm sick. Okay. She's on that cold medicine.

So speaking of elves. She's scissor-pinned. Like losers. We're talking about David Cap and the trailside killer here. Yikes. He's a big L. He's a M-maniac. There you go. How about that? There you go. Yeah. He's definitely an M. He's an L. He's a big L. He's a M maniac. There you go. How about that?

There you go. Yeah. He's definitely an M. He's an L. He's nothing good. And when we last talked to you about him, he had been released on parole. Which was crazy. Because one thing about this case is it's a prime example of the system failing on an extraordinary level. Yikes. I mean, failing superbly into oblivion.

I have one of those coming up too. Yeah. Several times they should have kept this guy behind bars and they just kept letting him out, kept giving him slaps on the wrist. He would keep reoffending. And that kind of thing. Yeah. And he kept escalating too.

It's like, what are you doing? And when we last talked about this, we talked about Etta Kane and John Kane, the couple who were very established hikers. Etta had gone out by herself and she hadn't returned home. They had eventually found Etta dead, unfortunately. And when we last talked about it, poor John had just kind of like withered away after she died. It's very, very sad. Now that had happened in like early fall. Now a few weeks later on September 6th, David Carpenter was discharged from the halfway

house because remember he had been paroled to a halfway house where he was being like conditioned to kind of go out back into society. It was a specific halfway house that was for like felons who were being reintroduced into society. He never should have been among them. He should have been kept in jail. Yeah, no, he's not the kind of person that can be reformed. No, so he was discharged from the halfway house

and returned to his parents' house. Lucky them. Which I was like, ooh. His former probation officer, Rich Wood, said, I'd gone over to the house a number of times before he got home from work. I talked to the parents to see how he was doing. And as far as anyone would say, him moving back into the house

had really not caused any problems and things seemed to be going well. That's really all they could go on at that point. A few months later later in February 1980, David found work in a key chain distributor and seemed to be meeting all the requirements for his parole. Okay. But this is kind of what he does.

He did this last time. He meets all the points that he has to. And then something happens and he just flips a switch. Yeah, like veers completely off. That's the problem. Now, on the morning of March 8th, 1980, Barbara Schwartz went out for a jog on the trails of Mount Tam. That afternoon, another hiker on the trail spotted 23-year-old Barbara arguing with a

man who appeared to be in his twenties, according to this person. Then, the man pulled a knife from his belt and started stabbing Barbara out of nowhere. By the time the police arrived to the spot, because they immediately called the police, by the time they got to the spot where Barbara had been last seen, her attacker was nowhere to be seen and Barbara had bled to death from multiple stab wounds. Oh my God. Where she was stabbed. Yeah.

Barbara Schwartz's death was the second murder on the mountain in a pretty short period of time. And like we had talked about before, there had been deaths on this mountain, of course. But as far as they knew, there wasn't any murders before this. Right. But unlike Etta Cain's murder, this time there was evidence recovered at the scene.

In addition to finding a butcher knife that investigators were virtually certain was the murder weapon. They also found a pair of blood stained eyeglasses. Oh shit, that'll tell you a lot. Always wild when they like are in such a frenzy that they leave something that important. Now there's no way of knowing who these glasses belonged to, but the prescription was a very heavy bifocal that if matched to the right person could be a very compelling evidence if it was in a trial.

This is not a regular bifocal, it's a very thick heavy bifocal. Now in their first examination of the body, it looked like Barbara had gone to great lengths to fight back. Sergeant Keating said she was repeatedly stabbed, but she put up a hell of a fight. Now, based on her defensive wounds, sheriff's detectives actually strongly suspected that Barbara's killer had most likely, very likely been wounded in this attack. Good. Yeah. Now that night, a little past 7 p. PM, David Carpenter arrived at the emergency room.

Oh, imagine that. In Peninsula Hospital in San Mateo, about 35 miles from where Barbara Schwartz's body had been discovered. Stupid ass. He had a deep cut on his right hand and his thumb. When the attending doctor asked how he got this injury, David said, quote, there was an attempted robbery at a 7-E in Burlingame, Burlingame, excuse me. I was attacked and injured by the holdup man.

Now, so he's claiming I tried to stop a holdup. I am a hero. I'm a hero. And I got hurt there. So the hospital policy was that any injuries sustained during an illegal act had to be reported to police. So the doctor did that. Despite no report of a robbery ever having been received in that area, the officers that interviewed David Carpenter just accepted his story and they allowed him to go on his way after being stitched

up. So they saw that there was no reports of a robbery there. And they just said, okay, no, cause he said it though. They could have stopped him right now. Yeah, of course. Like this could have been, when I tell you the failures at every single layer here. That's also just wild. Like you would think that that would hold him up for a little while.

Yeah, you would think, no, they just let him go. He got stitched up, let him go. And the doctor did his job. He called them to try to figure out what was going on. Right. I've just been to Specsavers and upgraded my lenses to extra thin and light with 50% off. Now, what else can I upgrade? My cat? Wow!

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or on Spotify or Apple podcasts. So it wasn't until the next day that San Mateo police received the All Points Bulletin about Barbara's murder. And by then the interviewing officers had completely forgotten about him. Like they just didn't even, theyies. They didn't even put the pieces together. Come on. So things were relatively quiet in the months after Barbara Schwartz's murder. Detectives continued investigating her murder and the murder of Etta Cain. But without any new information or evidence,

they really weren't gonna be able to get anywhere. Then in October, the sheriff's department got another call about someone having gone missing at Mount Tam. This time it was a couple. Oh, 19 year old Rick Stowers and his girlfriend, 18 year old Cindy Moreland. Okay. So the couple had just been, they'd just gotten engaged. Oh, and Rick had gotten his orders from the coast guard that we're going to require him to report for his latest position at Point Reyes, which was a small coastal village

about an hour outside of San Francisco. Okay. On the morning of October 8th, Rick had picked up Cindy and they were headed out to Point Reyes to kind of check out the area, where they were gonna be staying. Yeah. So later that afternoon, they were shopping in that area and another couple saw them at a bookstore

in town. Then they were seen a little bit later than that by two hikers, Sharon Melnick and Larry Drapkin. They saw them on Bear Valley Trail. A little later, Melnick and Drapkin were hiking when they heard a succession of loud booms. Later they said they sounded like noises and rapid succession from a backfiring motorcycle, but they couldn't really tell where it was coming from. They were having trouble like pinpointing it. Cause sometimes when you're in an area like that, sounds sound like they're coming from either one place

when it's a totally opposite one, or they sound like they're coming from everywhere. Even certain sounds I feel like do that. Sounds sound like they're coming from either one place when it's a totally opposite one or they sound like they're coming from everywhere. Even certain sounds I feel like do that. Like we'll be watching TV sometimes and it's a sound on TV that sounds like it's coming from like the back of our house. That happens to us all the time too. I think it's the girls like coming down or like yelling my name or something. We'll always be pausing and like listening or going upstairs. There's so many times where I'm like, was that our alarm? Yeah, I'm like, what the fuck was that? So that evening, Rick and Cindy had plans

to meet Cindy's sister, Alice, for dinner. And when they didn't show up, she got very worried. And around 9 p.m., she called her brother and explained the situation. But he was like, I don't know, don't overreact. He was like, maybe wait until tomorrow, see if Cindy shows up for work. Which I was like, I don't know, don't overreact. He was like, maybe wait until tomorrow, see if Cindy shows up for work. Which I was like, okay.

I don't really understand that. But Alice said Cindy was supposed to work at her job on Sunday morning. I was a little overprotective, I think, and I didn't want to worry anyone. Which like, I get that. Yeah. But the next day, Cindy didn't show up to work and she wasn't heard from from anybody. So Alice and the rest of the family started taking everything a little more seriously,

and they reported both of them missing. A few days later on October 15th, a third body of a murdered woman was discovered on Mount Tam. Damn. A research scientist and former Peace Corps consultant, 26 year old Ann Alderson. So she was visiting her parents in San Rafael over the holiday weekend.

On October 13th, she just decided to go for a solo hike on Mount Tam. So she was literally visiting. Like wouldn't have been there otherwise. And again, a research scientist and Peace Corps consultant. That's crazy. Like come on. So she had just wanted to go out for a solo hike on Mount Tam and days later, a witness named John Henry told police he'd seen Anne sitting alone in the amphitheater around 5

PM and had considered warning her about the recent attacks that had occurred on the mountain. He just wanted to be like, she should just be a little careful. Especially like being alone. He said, but she was so deep in introspection. I didn't want to bother or scare her. Oh, man. Yeah. So Anne was one of two people that Henry saw on the mountain that day. He also saw a man in the parking lot. He later said he was just hanging around. He was in his late forties, early fifties, but there was something different about him. He was simply standing there all but motionless and wearing street clothing, slacks and a Hawaiian like shirt. The man would later be identified as David Carpenter.

It reminds you of that thing where it's like, would you rather run into a bear in the woods or a man? Yes, a bear. The next day, two park rangers were out on the mountain looking for some wild ridgeback hogs that had been spotted in the area when they received an APB about a young woman, Ann Alderson, who had gone missing on the mountain. According to the bulletin, Ann had told her parents she'd be back by six that night, but they waited until the following day to report her missing. Search and rescue teams, along with family and friends, had combed the mountain that

night looking for Ann, but found no sign of her. It wasn't until the next day, October 15th, that Anne's body was discovered in an area of overgrowth, about a quarter mile from the amphitheater where she had last been seen by John Henry. Oh, that's awful. Unlike the other two victims, none of Anne's clothing or jewelry had been taken, except for one gold earring. Yeah.

It's so chilling. She had been sexually assaulted and the cause of death was a gunshot wound to the right side of her head. And it was from a quote, high powered weapon, like a rifle. Yeah. Although she was clothed when her body was discovered, investigators believe that her attacker redressed her after she was undressed. That's even scarier. That afternoon, the sheriff's department shut down Mount Tim to the public and detectives

searched the area for evidence and found, among other things, a metal fragment from the bullet jacket and Anne's underwear, which appeared to contain semen that the investigators believed was likely left by her killer. Although DNA testing was obviously not available at the time, this sample was analyzed by lab technicians and determined to be, quote, a type consistent with about six to eight percent of the general population. Well, at least that's small.

That's a small portion. Something, but it's like, ugh. Now, on December 2nd, 1980, about six weeks after Ann's murder, teams of park rangers were searching the mountain looking for 25-year-old Shana May and 22-year-old Diane O'Connell, who had been reported missing a few days earlier. My god. So many missing people.

So they're looking for Shana May and Diane O'Connell and they made a horrific discovery. So O'Connell and May had gone out for a walk along the national seashore at Point Reyes on November 28th. And when they failed to return home that afternoon, they were tourists. So people were like, where the fuck would they have gone? They were immediately reported missing. It was in a heavily wooded and sparsely traveled area on Mount Tam where they were found.

They were both unfortunately murdered. They were nude and had been shot in the head, both of them. Based on the initial evaluation, it looked like Diane O'Connell had been strangled by quote, something like a narrow piece of cord of wire. And a pair of women's underwear had been shoved in her mouth. Oh my. There was no evidence to indicate

that O'Connell had been raped. Shawna May, on the other hand, had been sexually assaulted before being shot. And there were ligature marks around one of her wrists, which indicated she'd been bound at some point. Now, the discovery of two more murder victims on Mount Tam was bad enough. But less than an hour later, Rangers discovered the decomposed remains of Cindy Moreland and Rick Stowers, about 200 yards from where they found O'Connell and May.

Jesus. Both bodies were found lying face down in what appeared to be a shallow, very crudely dug grave. Bullet wounds were in both of the back of their heads. They had been in the woods for about seven weeks at this point. So they had undergone a lot of decomposition and Cindy's remains had to be identified through dental records. That's always so sad. Yeah.

When they left Moreland's house on the day they went missing, neither Cindy nor Rick had said anything about going hiking. That's the problem. So when they reported missing, they just never thought to look in the area of Mount Town because no one knew they were hiking. Right. It was like a spontaneous thing. Now the body count now was at seven. Right. It was like a spontaneous thing. Now the body count now is at seven.

And the sheriff's office finally started, you know, we're like, you know what? I think there is one killer that's responsible for all these victims. It doesn't feel like just a coincidence. Sheriff Al Hallenstein told reporters the two most recent victims may have been slain by the killer to draw attention to the earlier killings. Hal Weinstein told reporters the two most recent victims may have been slain by the killer to draw attention to the earlier killings. He said, we're looking, we believe at an individual who has strong feelings about women. And he also said sometimes the slayer can control his feelings and other times he cannot.

When you think of it, like he killed Diane O'Connell and Shana Mae just to draw attention because he left them right, he did it and left them right near where Rick and Cindy were. Right. For him to do that just so that they, to be like, oh, you haven't found them yet. Right. So I'll just take two other people's lives. Like that is so fucking chilling.

That line of thinking is just- That's so chilling. Wild. line of thinking is just so chilling. Wild. And it's very him. Yeah. So the news that there was yet another serial killer, because remember we're in that time period and in that time, in that place, that location where serial killers were running a fucking muck around here.

They were confusing the cases, confusing the victims. Like they were overlapping. They were working in the same kind the victims. Like they were overlapping. They were working in the same kind of areas. Like it was a wild time. It was, I can't imagine being in this time, this place in the United States at this time. Especially as a woman. I really can't imagine it.

No. Horrifying. So this just the news that there was yet another one of these assholes operating in the San Francisco area was met with a lot of justifiable fear and anxiety from residents. Hauenstein said in a warning to the residents in the area, without question this individual is capable of striking again, which must have been horrifying to hear. That's very scary.

He said he commits his acts in an effort to achieve psychological relief, but the murders will not satisfy him and the problem will get worse. And in the same statement, he released a sketch of the man they believe was responsible. And he was described as quote, a clean cut man in his late 20s or early 30s, dressed in hiking clothes with a knapsack on his back. And according to witness statements,

he's beginning to fall apart psychologically. And so Hauenstein said, hikers especially remain vigilant and do not go on solo hikes. Like no more solo hiking everybody. But what's even worse is you're not safe even with two. Well, yeah, because look, Cindy and Rick were together. Yeah, Cindy and Rick and Diane and Shana. Yeah, and like you do inherently, I think,

as a woman sometimes feel a little bit more defended when you're with like a man. But that didn't even matter either. Yeah. Like that's very genuinely scary. It's horrifying. Now investigators check the local sex offender registry for anyone who might match these descriptions. But because Carpenter was still technically a federal prisoner on probation, he was not

yet required to sign up for the registry and so he hadn't. If you're out, you should have to sign up for that. Agreed. Like what? Another fail. Yup. Also at the time, this is even worse. At the time, California's sex offender registry program

was woefully underfunded. Really? And overworked. And it was run by three people, that department. It lacked even the basic resources to operate as a department, much less operate as like a functional arm of law enforcement. Three people are having to deal with all this. So the fact that he fell through the cracks in that scenario, not surprising at all.

Awful. I would have been surprised if they actually found him on the registry. Truly. Now, as for David Carpenter, the sheriff was more or less kind of accurate with what he said. He was starting to fall apart psychologically or, you know, he was becoming more reckless at the very least. Everyone has that friend who seems kind of perfect.

For Patty, that friend was Desiree. Until one day, I texted her and she was not getting the text. So I went to Instagram, she has no Instagram anymore. And Facebook, no Facebook anymore. Desiree was gone. And there was one person who knew the answer. I am a spiritual person, a magical person, a witch. A gorgeous Brazilian influencer called Cat Torres,

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You can listen to Don't Cross Cat on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Some people get a wild haircut or book a spontaneous trip when life throws them a curve ball. But Molly? Well, she dove headfirst into a world of no strings attached sex, secret rendezvous, forbidden affairs, and unforgettable adventures.

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Now on March 29th, 1981, 20 year old Ellen Hansen and her boyfriend, Stephen Herald, were camping near Henry Cowell Park in Santa Cruz, not far from Point Reyes. This was a popular area at the time, and it had about 90 other campers on site at the time. If Henry Cowell Park in Santa Cruz sounds a little familiar. It did. This is the same camping area

that Herbert Mullen took solitary hikes in, and brutally ended up murdering 18 year old David Oeliker, 18 year old Robert Spectoriker, 18 year old Robert Spector, 19 year old Brian Scott Card and 15 year old Mark Drabelbis in their tent. Oh wow. So this is the same place. And around the same time. Yep.

And this is where Ellen Hansen and her boyfriend Stephen Haredal were camping. Oh man. So that morning, Hansen and Haredal woke up early and went for a walk along the beach. For much of the walk they were alone, but eventually Steve spotted another person on the beach. This was a man wearing what looked to be a backpack and very heavy bifocal glasses. We got them replaced. And he was walking towards them.

No thanks. So as they got closer, Steve and Ellen could hear what Steve later described as quote, shuffling steps and then heavy breathing and cursing. Oh, but they thought like whatever. And they just kind of like, because they were walking towards each other, but like going past each other. So you're just going to say like, hey. So he said they nodded a hello that he did too.

And then they just kept walking. Now later that afternoon and nothing came of that. So they were just like, whatever. Later that afternoon, Steve and Ellen ran into that same man from the beach again. This time while they were hiking Ridge Trail on Mount Tam. When he saw them, he said, oh, I see we run into each other again. So they just kind of were like, huh, yeah, like weird. And then as they're being like, oh yeah, that's like funny. As they're saying that he reached into the waistband

of his pants and produced a revolver. Can you imagine you just see this man again? And he's like, oh, funny, we run into each other again. And you're like, yeah. And he's just puts a gun in your face. Like what the The fear? The fear and just like the split second change there. Because he just pointed it right at them. My God. Like that one just destroyed me. What the fuck, the universe? Like why did I cross this man's path again?

Now at the time, Steve was fixated on the man's hands, which he later described as extraordinarily white and clean, which is strange. He also noticed the strange way that the man was hands, which he later described as extraordinarily white and clean, which is strange. He also noticed the strange way that the man was holding the gun. He said it was like very specific. He said he had pulled back the hammer, but had his thumb between the hammer and the firing pin.

Because he's injured. Yeah. So if the hammer slipped, it would hit his thumb rather than discharging a bullet too. Right. Like, which is strange. The man said, if you don't want to get hurt, do what I say, put your hands on your head

and you won't get hurt. So he was like, this is weird. So he's thinking we're just being robbed. Also him putting his finger, his thumb between that. Probably disarmed him a little bit. Probably made him think like, okay, even if he pulls the trigger, we're not being fired at. So to me, that would probably make me be like, okay, this guy's bluffing.

Right. Like, this is fucked up. Let's just do what he says. And I think that's why Steve was like, okay, I think he's just robbing us and he's trying to threaten us with a gun thing. Yeah. So Steve pushed Ellen out of the way and thrust his wallet at this man. But the man was like, no, And this is one of the most chilling things

I have ever heard. Oh no. He said to him, I don't want any money. I want something else. You know what I mean. All I wanna do is rape her. Oh my God. Said this to her boyfriend.

Steve was probably like, what the actual fuck? And what do you do? And imagine Ellen being like, what the actual fuck? And what do you do? And imagine Ellen being like, what the fuck? Like, what do you do in that scenario? I have no idea. And it didn't, it's so scary. It's like so scary. And apparently it didn't occur to Steve in the moment, but he later said that the man

was slowly pushing them back off the trail and into the woods as this was happening. And Steve and Ellen were moving backwards and he was just kind of like advancing on them. Just to create space. And he's like getting them out of the way. Now eventually Steve and Ellen made a move to run and things just erupted into chaos. Steve said, I heard two shots and then I felt like somebody hit my neck with a sledgehammer. I remember falling to the ground with a buzzing sensation in my arm and everything was slowing down. The bullet had ripped through Steve's neck and severed an artery in his arm and

then had settled in his sternum. Oh my god. So he went unconscious. I'm sure. When he regained consciousness a few moments later, the first thing he saw was Ellen laying beside him and her head was resting in a pool of blood. The man who had shot them both looked like he was walking away and Steve knew if he didn't stop him, they might never find him and he might hurt someone else.

So despite being incredibly injured, Steve forced himself to his feet. He's been shot in the neck and an artery has been severed. Not only the fact that he's gravely injured, but the fact that he knows that this man still has a gun and could shoot him again. He's still going up against him. Because he doesn't want somebody else to get hurt. Wow. He forces himself to his feet and slowly starts walking after him, walking up the trail in the direction of the observation deck.

And he hadn't made it very far before he found a father and son hiking the trail. And he's like hysterical and he's slipping into like shock at this point. And Steve did his best to explain to them what happened, but he wasn't making a lot of sense. And Lee Fritz, who was one of the guys said, he told us that he and his girlfriend had been shot and he thought she was dead. Which like I can't even imagine having to say that. So with the help of some other hikers, Fritz managed to get Steve to the observation deck

where they called the police. And later several witnesses on the trail that day were called hearing the gunshots and passing a man in a gold jacket as they rushed to see what the commotion was about. It's also just so crazy to think that like so many people that day were just out for hikes. Like that guy that Steve ran into is just on a hike with his son. And like think of the headspace that they're in. Like they're like, oh, nature, beautiful. And Steve just woke up from being shot next to his girlfriend. And seeing his girlfriend shot next to him. So two of the hikers from the observation deck ventured out into the woods and found

Ellen's body. She was dead. She had been killed by a gunshot wound to her head. The two men sat with her body until the rescue team arrived, which I'm glad they did that. In the meantime, Steve was loaded into Lee Fritz's camper van and they started their way down to the hospital. So like all these campers are like helping each other out. When they reached the parking lot,

Fritz spotted a man driving a Volkswagen Beetle that appeared to be stuck in the mud. Good. Fritz said, something about the rear view mirror caught my eye. It was extra large for the car. Like, so it was just a very specific thing. As they passed, Lee and the other driver

made direct eye contact with one another. And it occurred to him that it was the same man that he'd passed on the trail just before he found Steve. God, can you imagine? And he said, he yelled, there goes the person I think committed the crime. But he said, at the moment I had to get Steve to a hospital. I was worried he was going to die. Like I couldn't stop

and try to apprehend this man. You have to weigh out what is more important. He's like, so I just had to get Steve to where he needed to go. Now, despite the serious physical and psychological trauma that he'd endured, Steve was able to provide a very detailed description of the killer. That's incredible. And he used that description to refine the existing composite of the sketch of the suspect. The problem though is that they still had no one to match the drawing to. And unfortunately, it was going to take one more murder before this man was finally identified

as David Carpenter. Jesus Christ. Now, with the exception of the attack on Lois DeAndrade in 1960, all of David Carpenter's victims were completely unknown to him and were just kind of like victims of opportunity, unfortunately.

For that reason, it's really strange that in choosing his last victim here, he chose someone that he knew like pretty well and could easily be traced back to him with very minimal effort. Because again, psychologically, he's unwinding. He's unwinding. Now on May 2nd, 1981, just one month after the murder of Alan Hansen and the attempted murder of Steve Haredel, 20 year old Heather Skaggs was attending the same trade school where David Carpenter

was working as a printer, and she mentioned that she was looking to buy a used car, since hers had finally broken down for good. Well, as it happened, Carpenter told her he had a friend in Santa Cruz who had a car for sale at a pretty good price, and he was happy to drive her over there after they both finished their shifts. Okay. If she could get the car, Carpenter pointed out he could help her get a job at the school. Heather agreed, but there were two things she did find unusual about this whole thing.

Carpenter had told her to bring cash and not tell anyone when she was going. Okay, that's strange. So Heather's mother, Mary Joan Skaggs, said that Heather called her that afternoon and seemed upset and was like, I feel like something's weird about this. She actually broke into tears at one point. She said it doesn't feel right. So her mother begged her like, trust your instincts, don't go with this guy. But Heather was like, I can't pass up the opportunity for a job, which is so sad. I know. And so she told her mom, don't worry.

Don't worry about it, mom. I just wish that somebody else could have given her a ride. I know. And that was the last time Mary Jones Skaggs talked to her daughter. Oh my God. Now later that night, when no one had heard from Heather, some of her friends reached out to David Carpenter for information actually, because they knew the two had plans that afternoon, because some people were there when they made these plans.

But David claimed that they hadn't met up as planned because quote, he overslept and had car trouble. Okay. So because multiple people knew she had plans to go look at a car with David Carpenter, when Heather was reported missing to police, his name came up repeatedly. But when investigators interviewed him,

he just said, I overslept and my card wouldn't work. I didn't see her that day. It's just a coincidence that I'm a violent criminal. Easy alibi. I overslept. I didn't see her. Now, at the same time that investigators were looking into his background in the context of the Heather Skaggs case, the composite sketch that had been updated with the help of Steve was finally starting to get some traction. And the first tip came in from a 69 year old woman in Ben Lomond, California named Roberta

Patterson. She reported recognizing the man in the sketch as a man she'd been on a cruise with 26 years earlier. Patterson wouldn't have remembered someone from that long ago, she said normally, but she recalled being very disturbed by Carpenter. And it was David Carpenter. Because he was making her teenage daughter very uncomfortable

because he wouldn't stop touching her shoulders. Eww. Patterson told a reporter from the San Francisco Chronicle, "'I just didn't like the guy.'" It turned out this was not the first time that Patterson had reported this particular man to the police. Years earlier, she called police

after seeing a sketch of the Zodiac on TV. Oh shit. Yeah. We're about to cover that. Now, by the time they called him in for an interview about the disappearance of Heather Skaggs, investigators already suspected him of being involved in the murders at Mt. Tam. But in person, he was much less believable as a threat to anyone. Detective Walt Robinson said, when he sat down and started talking to Carpenter,

the first time he opened his mouth, I thought, my God, this guy can't possibly be involved in the Santa Cruz homicide. In addition to just appearing pretty meek according to them, like he just didn't seem like, you know, judging a book by its cover, I suppose. They were also saying he was struggling to get a single sentence out without stuttering.

When they asked about Heather, his response caught their detectives off guard because he said, I hope she hasn't been killed. I hope she hasn't been raped. But they said he stuttered very hard on the words killed and raped. So that's why it like really hit them. They were like, first of all, why would you say that? That's just bizarre. And second of all, like why are those words hitting so hard? Yikes. The more he talked, the more investigators started seeing the facade of a mild, awkward

man to someone who is clearly very more controlling, manipulative, and cunning. To Robinson and his partner, Carpenter's alibi seemed way too perfect. His descriptions were too well rehearsed. Everything was too much. So sensing he would need to establish some kind of rapport with the suspect, Robinson told Carpenter that, like David, he had also been forced to take dance classes as a kid and would often get made fun of by his peers. At that, David calmly rose from his chair, and for nearly ten minutes, he went through all the dance positions he could remember,

moving fluidly around this little interrogation room as the detectives just watched him without any emotion. That... He needs to be hospitalized. You would see that in a movie and be like, that's too much. And be like, that's too much. That's a lot. Like that was crazy.

No, that is. It's also like he did. Weirdly sad. Yeah. But like, I don't feel bad for him. But yeah, like the entire performance from, you know, the awkward, you know, weird embarrassment and the dance routine, it all felt very planned though to them. Because at first when you hear that you're like, oh, he's just really like, he's really going out

there, you know? Just trying to make it seem like he's... But to them, they felt like this is part of it. They said he was playing a game with them. As he danced, David said, I know you guys think I'm the number one suspect as he's dancing. And they reminded him that they were from missing persons, not homicide. But all David said was, hey, I'm the number one suspect. I should be if I'm not. What the fuck?

And the detectives concluded their interview and took three Polaroid photos of Carpenter that allowed him to leave. That's so bizarre. They said it was all, it's all felt very rehearsed. It sounds like it. He literally did a dance rehearsal. In the days that after that, FBI agents working with the Santa Cruz County Sheriff's Office ran a 24 seven tail on David Carpenter.

I always love that. And during that time they witnessed him attempting to sell his 38 pistol, among other things. And in the meantime, Santa Cruz homicide detectives continued to investigate the Hanson murder, focusing on David Carpenter. It was during an interview with his former girlfriend, Candy Townsend, that the first break came. During their conversation, Townsend mentioned a gold jacket of David's that had gone missing in early April. Which he told her had been stolen out of his car. Detective Stoney Brook said up in his name is Stoney Brook. That's iconic. Can we all just take

hold space for that? He had to be a detective. That's a great name. It is. He said up to this point, we lacked the nexus, the connection. We had him fitting the description, but we could not put him at the scene with the gun in his hand. That jacket was it, the nexus. I love it. Only Detective Stoney Brook could say it like that. It's true.

And only Detective Stoney Brook would say nexus. Exactly. That's the only thing that only Stoney. Now along with the pistol and the witness descriptions, the jacket put David Carpenter at the scene of the Hanson murder at the previous month. That afternoon, Brooke called the FBI surveillance team and reported what they'd learned on the afternoon of May 15th. David Carpenter was arrested for the murder of Ellen Hanson.

Following his arrest and arraignment for the murder, seven witnesses, including Steve Herdl, identified Carpenter as the man who they'd seen fleeing Mount Tam on the day Ellen Hansen was murdered. About a week later, on May 24th, hikers walking along the railway at Big Basin State Park unfortunately discovered the nude decomposing body of Heather Skaggs. She had been sexually assaulted and shot in the face with a.38 caliber handgun, the same gun used in the shooting of Ellen Hansen and Steve Heredal. During the trial, one of Carpenter's friends, Molly Purnell, testified that she had purchased the gun at David's request,

and two other witnesses testified to having been shown the gun at David's request. And two other witnesses testified having been shown the gun by David Carpenter at various points in the previous year. During his interviews, Carpenter claimed not to own a gun. But one of the former halfway house residents David lived with had turned on him and confessed to having been given the gun by Carpenter and asked to destroy it. Oh my God. Yeah.

You just like the fact that he thought that was never asked to destroy it. Oh my God. Yeah. You just like the fact that he thought that was never going to come back. You really think they're going to have your back here? No. Like, come on. That man led police to where he had thrown it and the weapon was recovered. Whoa. Yep.

In late July, 1981, David Carpenter was charged with five counts of murder, rape, and attempted rape in Santa Cruz County. Also in his 1981 mugshot, he's wearing a fucking monogrammed sweater. Yeah, he's terrifyingly normal. He's wearing a straight up monogrammed sweater. I don't know what the monogram is because it's not for his name. Yeah. But which is even scarier somehow.

I don't know why. It's just like, whose is that? I hate it. Yeah. Now at a trial was scheduled, but Yeah. I'm like, whose is that? I hate it. Yeah. Now, a trial was scheduled, but in the months that followed, additional charges were added for the murders in Marin County, and that complicated the case. Things were further complicated by multiple requests for a change of venue after Carpenter's

lawyers argued that there had been too much press coverage in Santa Cruz, and the jury was going to be biased. Yeah, yeah. By the time the case went to trial in April 1984, it took nearly three months to impanel a jury in Los Angeles where the case had been moved. Now in July 1984, after a three month trial, David Carpenter was found guilty of all charges in the Santa Cruz cases. And in November of that year, he was sentenced to death. Goodbye.

Two years later, in September 1986, Carpenter was tried for the murders committed in Marin County, where he was also found guilty of all charges. And in 1988, was also sentenced to death for those as well. Damn, two times. You're going to die twice. Oof. Given the complexity of the cases and the fact that death penalty cases are automatically appealed Yeah, David Carpenter appealed those convictions and sentences to the state Supreme Court several times

Although two of his convictions for the Hansen and Skaggs murders were at one point overturned on a technicality Motherfucking technicality the convictions and sentences for those murders were reinstated upon review David Carpenter has always denied killing or sexually assaulting any of the individuals he was convicted of killing. Despite a wild amount of forensic evidence linking him to the murders. There is no question whatsoever. In the years since he was incarcerated, he's been linked through DNA to the 1979 murder of Mary Bennett, who was killed while jogging at Land's End.

And he remains the prime suspect in the murders of Etta Cain and Barbara Schwartz, who they were never able to pin him for. As of today, he remains incarcerated at San Quentin Prison, and he is 94 94 years old and he is the oldest resident on California's death row. That's bullshit. That is some bullshit that man is allowed to live that long. And I hope that death row is just fucking awful though. Oh, I hope he's having the worst time. I hope he's having the fucking worst time. I hope they can't dance. I hope they don't let him dance. Oh yeah, I hope they just... Ugh.

I hope he lives with a constant hangnail. Yeah. And I hope he always has a cut inside of his nose. And I hope the faucet is always dripping. Always dripping. And that mice are in his cell. And I hope his eye twitches, and then it stops so he thinks it's gone, but then it just goes for like a week straight.. Yeah and I hope he has a dull headache.

And then I hope he has an abscess in his tooth. Several teeth actually. Oh that's crazy. And a sore throat. Oh definitely a sore throat. We can never pinpoint why. And no cough drops in prison. No except for Mucinex and he's one of those people who Mucinex makes puke.

Mucinex makes me nauseous. Me too. And I hope it makes him nauseous. And they only have that. You heard it here first. Yeah. Wow. That's a really sad story.

And the fact that so many of those deaths never would have happened if that justice system had actually prevailed. Can we tell, we got to tell a story soon where the justice system like does good. Yeah, we definitely need to find one of those because this was not one of those situations. No, they're food fucking trees. David Carpenter is an asshole. where the justice system does good. Yeah, we definitely need to find one of those because this was not one of those situations. They're food for the tree. David Carpenter's an asshole. Those poor people just living their lives

and they were just victims of opportunity. Just hiking. It's awful. It is. But a lot of like civilians in this case, a lot of the detectives did a great job on this case. They did. And a lot of civilians really pulled it together

in this case. I feel like camping culture and like hiking culture, those people really stick together. Yeah, they take care of each other. People take care of each other. Which like, good for you guys. Whenever people go hiking on the, like, do like the crazy hike. Pacific Coast Highway, what is it?

Pacific Coast Highway, did you say? No, why, well, that's a thing. The Pacific Coast Trail, right? Is that it? In my head, I was thinking like the Appalachian Trail. Now I'm just thinking Panama. Pacific Crest Trail? That's not in my head, but I don't know what it's called. So at least you had a stab at it. The Reese Witherspoon movie where she throws her hiking boots. It's like a whole thing. And they talk about it in Gilmore Girls, the new ones. I know what you're talking about.

Yeah. Pacific Crest Trail. I was right. Okay. I was like, I know I'm not totally off on here. Anyway, she was going to do wild. So that's what it is. It's wild.

Yeah. The Pacific, the Appalachian Trail, I think is part of that whole thing. Okay. You were also correct. See, look at us both being great. Basically my point was just that when people do that big long trail and they go wild or they do wild, people take care of them. Everybody takes care of each other during the wild going.

They do. I think people who- It's a community. People who hike, I think that's just like in your bones and in your blood and like, which makes you pretty fucking great. I wish I could hike. I get sick. Keep looking out for each other and please be careful.

And with that being said, we hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that you don't do and go wild. Wild. Wild, wild, wild. I'm going to go to bed. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and and ad free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. Are you captivated by the dark and mysterious world of true crime? Wondery Plus offers you

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