Morbid - Episode 71: The Mysterious Death Of Phoebe Handsjuk Part 1

Episode Date: June 5, 2019

It’s another Australian madness episode! In this 2 part series, we will take a deep dive into the mysterious, gruesome and tragic death of Phoebe Handsjuk. The vibrant, beautiful and talented 23 year old died horrifically when she somehow plunged from a 12th floor garbage shoot in a luxury apartment building, all the way onto the bottom floor, where she passed through a compactor before being spat out in a scene straight out of a horror film. Part 1 will dissect her early life, her tumultuous relationship and her tragic death. Stay tuned for Part 2 where we go deeper into her death, the physics of it all and her family and friends’ never-ending mission to find out the truth. Sources: Into the Darkness: the mysterious death of Phoebe Handsjuk by Robin Bowles https://members.huntakiller.com/blog-articles/2017/11/1/the-garbage-chute-mystery-the-near-impossible-death-of-phoebe-handsjuk https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/101500170/phoebes-fall-baffling-ruling-in-garbage-chute-death-of-aussie-woman-prompts-change https://www.smh.com.au/interactive/2016/phoebesfall/CoronerFinding.pdf Check out the Podcast Phoebe's Fall See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey, Prime members, you can listen to morbid, early, and ad-free on Amazon music. Download the app today. You're listening to a morbid network podcast. Whether you're running errands on your daily commute, or even at home, you can enjoy all your audio entertainment in one app, the Audible app. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog. This includes the latest bestsellers and new releases. Plus get full access to a growing selection of included audiobooks, audible originals,

and more. If you've been wanting to form good habits, break bad ones, and improve motivation, atomic habits written and narrated by James Clear is a great lesson. It'll reshape your mindset on progress and success by helping you develop strategies to transform your habits. New members can try audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash wondery pod or text wondery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days.

That's W-O-N-D-E-R-Y-P-O-D. Audible.com slash wondery pod or text wondery pod to 500-500 to try audible for free for 30 days. Angie has made it easier than ever to connect with skilled professionals to get all your home projects done well. Whether it's routine maintenance and emergency repair or a dream project, Angie lets you browse home on her reviews, compare quotes from multiple local pros, and even book a service instantly. So the next time you have a home project, just Angie that and start getting the most out

of your home. Download the free Angie mobile app today or visit Angie.com. That's ANGI.com. Hey weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Ash and this Australian morbid... No, that was not as good as you can do. Oh no, I'm gonna do more, don't we? Because you've been practicing. I have been practicing, guys., I have been practicing guys.

Right. Like I've been really practicing. I studied your dialect. She sure did. Because when Elena does something, I do it. She does it. I really do it. I researched Australia this week too.

I love researching. And so when I decided I was going to perfect your accent to make you proud because we love you so I really I really went to him. You guys literally should have heard her before this. It's true So basically, let's try this ready. I'm ready This is another Aussie episode. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, Steve Irwin is that you so Oh, maybe oh my god. I'm from Australia. I can't I always just go British

Oh my god. I'm like I'm oh my god You're like no I'm trying guys. I'm really trying. No, you're doing a really good job And you know what in my personal unall Australian opinion My American opinion you're doing great. In my super uncalled your opinion. I think you're great. Well, here's my promise to you, Australia. Each episode we do.

Each Australian episode. Yeah, each Australian episode. Let's clarify. I won't just be Australian in every episode. But each Australian episode we do, I'm going to get better. You just said Australian too, and you are. I am. I'm just saying.

And I know this one is kind of because I did my research. I know this one's a little regional. I don't know where it's from, but someone will tell us. It's regional. So somebody let me know if you say, accent or accent or episode or episode or episode Which one is wow? Let me know because I'm here for you Australia Right else Australia. So do you want to hear what our case is this week our case?

Is a crazy one should we say at the same time? That's always fun. Let's do it one two three Phoebe hands-juck and It's gnarly. It's gnarly. It's mysterious. Is there like a descriptive word in Australia that they say? I don't know. Damn, I should have looked that up. Well, you didn't do your reset. You know what, I'll reset. That was all right. That was all right. That was pretty good. I told you I researched. I told you I researched. You did. I also found out that Australia, just in case you didn't know, that you tend to go up at the end of sentences. Like a question.

Like a question, which is pleasant. So I just wanted to let you know that. I also found out that you guys also drop odds, but you don't do it as harsh as we do it in Boston, like we say, cat. And we're like, you're part of the cat. We're on the, man. And you guys say, like, ca, ca. It's like, just, it's just like nice.

I'm like, all, see what? And we're like, ah! We just love you, Australia. You guys are just, you're delightful. You guys are in the shit. So back to the case, Phoebe Hansjuk is a doozy. We're going to do it in multiple parts. I know some people don't like two partners, but I promise this is going to be like one right after the other. You're not going to have to wait long for part two. But there's

just too much to cover in one. We just did not want to miss things. And there's too many details and too many things to pick through that just couldn't be left out. Yeah, it's just a lot. And I think you'll appreciate the two parts. I think the only true crime update that I wanted to give you before we jump into the case was last week we talked about the Connecticut mom of five who went missing and then it was updated into a homicide investigation instead of a missing person's. And I mean, I don't know if we were clear, but we were thinking maybe the ex has been

possibly new and he's something about it. Well, him and his living girlfriend just got arrested. So don't know a whole lot more about that because I just found it out this morning, but any more details will let you know we just wanted to update you Without further ado, let's just jump into the case Phoebe hands check. All right. So Phoebe hands check was delivered by an emergency C section on May 9th of 1986 Other than that she was by all accounts a happy healthy healthy baby. Growing up, she was described as a wild child. I was surprised you weren't like, same. I was gunna, and then I decided not to. Her mom referred to Phoebe as her tiger cub. I love that. I know, it's so cute. She was super imaginative, active, she loved all things creative, and she was like really good at art and writing and drawing and everything.

That seemed to go through her entire life, too. Yeah, the whole way through. She loved to be outside, and she really, really loved the ocean. And all throughout her life, she had close friends. She loved to socialize, and she was popular in school. She played basketball when she was younger, and she was super good.

She was super competitive. There's actually a website that her family set up to kind of like commemorate her and also they kind of just update it. Yeah, was this is still kind of a non-going or deal, which you'll see why later. On the website, her family set up, they remember if someone fowled her, she would play like 10 times harder. And then at the end of the game, they'd be like, wow, like why does it feeebe play like that all the time? And they said it was because someone had did her wrong. She's like how she's been done her wrong.

Somebody done her wrong. Phoebe also enjoyed other activities like rock climbing, hiking, and even karate, and kickboxing later in life. Damn. Yeah, she was super active, like crazy, crazy active. Yeah, and that's important later, that she was a very athletic and fit person. Right. So really everything kind of like seemed to be perfect from the outside.

An athletic, creative, popular girl loved by everybody around her. Yeah. But we all know that that way. It's not as simple as that. Phoebe had her own struggles. She suffered from depression, and she started using drugs and alcohol to help her cope. She went on antidepressants at the age of 16,

and was on and off of them from that time until the time of her death. Her parents said that they didn't exactly agree with the decision of her going on them, and they especially worried because she didn't take them consistently, and she would put herself on and off of them, which is not recommended. Phoebe's dad, Len, actually, was a psychiatrist, so he knew what he was talking about. And so he and her mom, Natalie, just like, were kind of worried about it.

And I remember reading he didn't want to take her on as a patient, obviously, because of conflict of interest. So it makes sense that he would be kind of like weary about having someone else prescribe his daughter that stuff. Yeah, that must be like a weird feeling to you. Yeah, because you're at a control, but it's like your realm, you know, it'd be like if you went to a different hairstylist. Exactly.

You'd be like, how dare you? So anyways, Phoebe's parents divorced when she was a teenager and she took the divorce especially hard. She actually didn't talk to her dad for like a little while, like they didn't have much to do with each other. That's sad. But eventually they built their relationship back again and he says he believes at the time of her death, spoiler alert, she dies, unfortunately.

She was not depressed. He did not think she was depressed at the time of her death. Right. I would trust him. And he just felt as though she would get kind of morose after drinking, but it was not anything more than that. It was like more brought on by the drinking. By substances.

Yes, exactly. Phoebe was especially close with her maternal grandmother, Jeanette Campbell. Everyone knew that her grandmother was the one she trusted and she would go to her grandmother with everything and anything. Then her grandma seemed really cool. She did everything I read. I was like, yeah, Jeanette.

Yeah, exactly. So her grandmother took LSD at some point in her life and she told Phoebe that there were just some things that people couldn't handle. And she was like, I've taken it, and I know like that, I can't handle it. And I know that you especially can't handle it. She was like, you gotta chill on that.

Because Phoebe was very sensitive in general. Like she had a lot of emotions. And she was such a creative person. I just think she was, I don't wanna say it tortured artists, but like that type. Yeah, she had that vibe. I was gonna say it's like the creative people tend to be more emotional, because they're more in touch with different parts of their brain and their soul.

You know what I mean? People say all the time that hairdressers are super emotional and it's actually really true. That makes sense, because it's a creative field. Yeah. So they don't say that about autopsy too much. I really, that's so surprising to me. Wow. Shocking. They're like, they're cold as ice. So yeah, her grandmother was like, dude, you know, like drugs just make things worse for people like us. Like we're very sensitive and it heightens

that. Yeah. That makes sense. So her closest friends remember going out with her starting at the age of 13. Oh my god. Which is bananas. That's such a...it's like your baby. Yeah, you're a child. You're just a baby. Then again, I think I started going out at like 14, so... You were a baby.

Oh, was a baby. I didn't go out like this though. They got into clubs and bars using fake IDs at 13 years old. Damn. Like, what kind of fucking bouncer was working the doors when I wanted to? Yeah. Obviously at 13, you are not ruling in cash.

I know. But she kind of looked older. Yeah. And I'm sure you're probably to pull it off. Right. But like I said, you're probably not ruling in cash at that age, but somehow her friends remember going out with like $20

between the three of them and still coming back, having had plenty of drinks. And Phoebe would come back with handfuls of drugs. Oh my gosh. Collected from different guys that she'd met throughout the night. Awesome. There was just something about her that drew men to her. For one thing, she was super gorgeous. She was beautiful. I posted a photo on our Instagram of her

and it's like a very natural photo of her. But she's very natural. She's stunning. But she also had like a mysterious way about her that kind of made guys want to know like what her deal was. Yeah. So...

So, yeah, I'm still looking for it. Phoebe's mom Natalie knew how Phoebe was when it came to men. She seemed to become infatuated with older men and they were always intrigued by her as well. Her grandmother felt as though she was seeking some kind of approval or like she was looking for something. Yeah, there's some like psychological aspect to it, probably. There was also a pattern in her family,

similar to the romantic choices that Phoebe was making. Yeah, this is interesting. This is very interesting. When I read about this, I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, because they were wondering if it's like in the DNA. Right, which is maybe. Yeah, you don't know. Her father, Phoebe's father, Len,

was 14 years older than Natalie, her mother, who would also, I'm going to talk about later, Natalie had also been in a relationship with a teacher and Phoebe was as well. And it happened right around the same age. That's interesting. And Phoebe's grandmother's partner was 11 years older than her. So like I said, there is like a whole thing about a teacher. So one of her first and most important relationships was at the age of 16 with a teacher twice her age.

And he also like lived with the family at some point. I read that too. But I didn't, I didn't really die too deep into it. So in some period of time. And then after that relationship, another one ensued with another older man. All right. I mean, I try not to judge,

but like a 30 year old teacher with a 16 year old, it's not okay. It's just okay. And it's like, yeah, I mean, as you get older, it gets different. And when you're not a teenager anymore, you know, like when you're a legal age. Right.

And when you're in a role that comes with like, great responsibility, like a teacher, it's just wrong. Yeah, when you hold authority over the minor, yeah, that makes it, that turns it into something different in a different situation. Yeah, totally. So her relationship pattern was a,

like definitely a pattern. She liked older guys. And her relationships always started up out really good, but then these issues would come up and about her drinking or about her flirting with other men. They would end in like fire like turmoil because I think she was just like a free spirit. So like nobody could like reign or in. And I think a lot of times when you're like a free spirit, it's almost you come off flirty without meaning to, because you're just like floating through like just having.

Well, and she's dating older men. And I think maybe in this, these kind of scenarios, the older men are like, you know, used to being in control of the situation and you can't control her. Yeah. That's just not who she was. So I think it was probably becoming issues like over and over again. Definitely. So her boyfriend at the time of her death

was Anthony Hamill, who went by aunt. They met when Phoebe was 23 and aunt was in his early 40s. He was a regular at Linley Godfrey's hair salon, which was a very upscale. I think Linley Godfrey's like, so less. Yeah, he's a stylist. He's a stylist, he's a Celeste. He's a celebrity stylist, yeah.

Literal goals. And Phoebe worked the desk there as a receptionist. So it was an attractive, wealthy, award-winning events promoter. Some of his clients included Michael Jackson, ACDC, and Nicole Kidman. And that's just naming like a few of the biggest names. No big deal.

Casual. No big deal. He also was the son of a retired Supreme Court judge, named George Hamill, and the step son of a county court judge named Felicity Hamill, which I love the name Felicity, anyways. And two judges as parents. Yeah.

Like wow. Keep that mind. Just yeah, just hang on to that. So Phoebe moved in to Ants Luxury apartment. Pretty much like five months after they were dating. Like, it was pretty quickly. Yeah. But we've all made that mistake.

A couple of thousand on that. Raise your hand. Although she did pay him rent to live in the house or the apartment, excuse me. Yeah, he had like conditions. Yeah, Phoebe and Antwer in interesting couple, in a lot of ways they were very different from each other, but they obviously were like similar enough to start a relationship. Yeah, but Phoebe loved to space filled with art and clutter,

somewhere to paint and journal and like express herself creatively. Come into that. Whereas art wanted his apartment to look like untouched. Oh yeah. Very like modern like white, clean. Yeah. Everything has a place. I remember reading about like the cleaner.

I think I had the cleaning lady and she said that he specifically told her to make it look like no one lives here. Yeah. That's how he liked it. I mean, I respect everybody's choices of how they want their home to look. But I prefer a home that looks lived in. That's what I prefer.

I always prefer a home to look. I can see why you would maybe want to have me. Yeah. I mean, my husband likes a more, like he would be super happy if I removed all clutter from our house. No, I just could be. But he puts up with my clutter. Yeah. He even encourages it. It he he puts up with my clutter. Yeah. Even encourages it.

It's happy to find you someone who does that. So Phoebe's mom said there was really no trace or presence of Phoebe in the apartment other than the photographs that she was in with Aunt. And that's that's troubling. Yeah, because especially like if you're going to get married someday and have a house together and like, yeah I mean, it was her fucking house too. She paid rent. She was paying rent. So like, you should be able to have a piece of you in there. It should be your space together.

Exactly. Like your house or your living, your dwelling of some sort when you're with a partner should reflect both of you. Yeah, both sides. So Phoebe also confided in her therapist that Aunt made her feel stupid and put her down a lot. Her mom recalls a fight that they had one time where Phoebe had promised Ant who was like away traveling somewhere that she wouldn't drink while he was gone, but she broke her promise.

During the fight, Ant angrily yelled at Phoebe over Skype that he didn't know who was sleeping in his bed. What? Yeah. So, What's your children? Well, it's just like calm down. Yeah, like calm down too.

Like calm down. But like it's my bed too. Like I can have a sleep over here, and I'm just kidding. So before Phoebe died, and while she was living with aunt, she became involved with another older man, who was her art teacher. There were some emails between the two of them. became involved with another older man who was her art teacher. There were some emails between the two of them. She emailed him demanding he haven't a fair with her.

I mean, who hasn't done that? Who among us? There's been times where I'm like, yo, just having a fair with me. I'm demanding it at this point. I wonder how that email goes. I would love to see that. Like how do you demand someone?

I like, having a fair with me. That's all I can picture. It's impressive. I mean how do you demand someone? I like having a affair with me. That's all I can picture. It's impressive. I mean, live your best life. I'm impressed. But it didn't really work out well because he accused her of stalking him and she was kicked out of art school.

You know? So feeding somebody loose. Yeah, exactly. Phoebe and Anne actually broke up a few times over the course of their relationship, which I think their whole relationship was like 18 months. So like a year and a half, is that what that was? Yeah, I think it was, it was, it was definitely not like a long, round out like years and years, you know, but it was long-ish.

Yeah. So, and things between them were rocky in the weeks leading up to her death, which is troublesome. Phoebe confided in friends and family that aunt had a controlling side and she felt like she didn't always have a voice in their relationship. So I'm going to pass the mic to Elena who's going to tell you what happened in the weeks before Phoebe's death. So a lot of my, my information I got from a really good book about this case called Into the Darkness, the mysterious death of Phoebe Hans-Juck, and it's by Robin Bowles, who is a crime writer. Oh, I should also say that a lot of my information came from one of her family's website

and to the podcast. Oh, yes. There's a huge podcast where they go like wildly in depth, and it's called Phoebe's Fall. And it's great. Really, really good. Really interesting. So go listen to that as well if this interests you. So Phoebe tried four different times to break up with Ant

in the weeks before she died. Her family and friends also noticed that she was starting to behave a little more erratic and unpredictable. She was always erratic, always unpredictable, but they were like something was just off. It just seemed different. So apparently at some point Phoebe's mother, she was 23 at this point.

Yeah. Phoebe's mother had told her that she wanted to send her on a fancy trip for like overseas for her 21st birthday. Phoebe hadn't taken her up on it yet. On October 5, 2010, she sent an email to her mother and asked if that trip was still on the table, because she said she may need to take it out, take her up on it, and she may need to do it quickly and without a lot of notice. Which that's strange. Obviously, something's going on. Yeah.

To me, that seems like I need to get away from this. Like after I break up with Anne, I should leave the country. I just kind of want to piece out. Right. On October 20th, she left the apartment that she shared with Aunt. And by all accounts, she intended that to be the end of their relationship.

That was going to be it. She decided she was going to go visit with her grandmother, Jeanette, in Malacuda, where her grandmother lived. When she got to her grandmother, she told her she was planning to leave Aunt. She was going to resign from her job, which Aunt actually made her quit when she moved in with him.

One of his conditions was to make her quit her job as a receptionist because he said it was below them. That's dickish. And then he got her a job at this like ad agency called Savvy, where she, I don't know exactly what she was doing there, but to him it was like a more respectable job than a receptionist at a celebrity hair salon. And he sounds like a dick.

Oh, but. So she was playing to resign from her job. She was gonna leave Aunt. And she was like, I'm gonna get a job in Malacuda. I'm gonna try to get sober. I wanna start things anew. So she said, she also wanted to volunteer in India and she wanted all the stress and anxiety that was in her life to just disappear.

So she could focus on other people and helping people. Of course, Jeanette was super supportive because she was a rad-asked grandmother. Love her. And she also told her, you know what, that's great. I want you to do all those things, but I want you to do them properly. So she said, running away is a bad idea. You need to go back. You need to resign from your job the right way. You need to break up with aunt and person and you need to start this new exciting chapter the right way because you'll feel better about it in the long run. Exactly. So she spent about three days in Malacuda and then she contacted a family friend named Keith Allen, or this was during the three days, excuse me. She contacted a family friend named Keith Allen to see if she could get a job at the golf

club that he managed just for a little bit. She wanted to get her over. He said, of course, you can just let me know. So now she had a job set up. Before she left, she also went to an AA meeting in Malacuda because she was like, I'm really like serious about this. I want to get to go over. And a woman from the meeting gave her a ride back to her grandmother's house.

This woman said in a statement to police later that she spoke a lot in the car about her issues in her relationship. She said that her and Anne had a rocky relationship. She wasn't happy. She also said her phone, this lady also said that Phoebe's phone rang a ton during the meeting and on the car ride home. And she told her it was Aunt and that she really wished to just leave her alone. Wow. And to call somebody that many times in like one sitting, like all through the meeting, all through the ride home. And she was like, I really wish this guy

would just like a meeting is must be at least an hour long on the side of the thing so that's all the way home it's like she's not answering buddy right this witness apparently died before she could give this stuff to police during the death investigation oh so this was not entered in with the inquest into her death interesting exactly. Just like actually died. Yeah. She actually died. Not suspiciously. No. Like she actually like didn't fake die. I mean, like did somebody set her up? I don't know. Shit. I mean, she was attending an AA meeting. So maybe she unfortunately succumbed to her addictions. But I don't know.

This person wasn't named obviously. Right. He's coming from an A meeting. But in the next two days, apparently, Ant was able to convince Phoebe to give it another go. Oh, God. It's never a good decision. No, it's not. It's broke. You can't fix it.

If he has to, like, convince you, no. And convince you and convince you to get back. It's just a stoke to it. It's like, remember the reason why you did it in the first place. Yeah, exactly. On October 24th, she said she was giving it another go. She told her grandmother and her grandma was like,

okay, love your best life. Yeah, I'm like, I'm gonna support you, because I love you. So Phoebe promised her grandmother that she would calm down her drinking. So she went from I want to be sober to I'll chill it out a little bit. Right. And everything seemed to go back to normal. At November 17th, she and Aunt went to a dinner at a friend's home named Linda Cohen.

Linda was like very close with Phoebe. There was a lot of times that I read where she contacted her and like some of her like darker moments with Aunt. Apparently she and Aunt got into a fight at the dinner. Oh no. Because Phoebe was like checking her phone or like texting someone and he got mad and he ended up leaving without her and going home. Like leaving her at lindus. Not a dick move. So she and Linda stayed up all night talking. Oh, Linda's like, consoler was talking to her about aunt, the things she wanted to do, like all the things she was basically telling her grandmother

she wanted to do, like just start a new, really get stuff together and like just go to India. And obviously that's what she really wanted. Yeah, because she was bringing it up. And she also told her, like she went,

because I think she had met Linda later. So she also told her, like she went, because I think she had met Linda later. So she was telling Linda, you know, I experimented with drugs when I was younger. Like she was letting her know, you know, this is what my life has been. And she even told her that she tried everything at that point, except for heroin.

She's us. Yeah. So Linda was like, whoa. She also told her that she preferred cocaine and weed more than alcohol because they didn't make her feel like shit the next day. Because she said, alcohol always makes me depressed the next day, which is kind of like what her dad says.

Exactly. So I think she recognizes it. She knows what kind of, and I believe, like, I remember reading like her parents and all her friends said, from the time she began drinking until her death This girl could have maybe two drinks. Right. I heard that a lot and if she did After two drinks they were like she could not even stand on her feet. She was could not hold her She was a lot. She was also pretty tiny. She was she was tiny

Even though she was athletic. She just couldn't hold the alcohol. She was, they were like, she was not meant for it. Yeah, she was a wobbly mess after like two drinks. So, and obviously it had worse effects on her. She always was depressed the next day. Just, well, she wasn't a good drunk. She just wasn't something she should have done. So Phoebe then told Linda that she wanted to go back

to her grandmother's and she was like, you know what, I want to go back to my plan. I'm going to leave Aunt resign from my job. All that could stuff. Girl do it. I know. I hate that because I get excited. And then I'm like, I know what happens.

That's the worst part. It's like, I know the outcome and I'm like, but I'm still reading the book being like, no, girl, get around because she had so much promise, man. She really did. So the next morning, Linda said Phoebe surprised her because she had so much promise man. She really did. So the next morning Linda said Phoebe surprised her because she said she started drinking right away. In the morning. Yeah.

And she was like, oh, that's subsetting. Especially since you just said. Yeah, like I was. Exactly. She was like, and that you were like, I like Coke and weed better because alcohol makes me depressed. And then she starts the day drinking drinking so she was like, oh no So she drove her back to the Bollensia department where she lived with aunt and she helped her pack up her stuff because she was still like I'm doing this

November 19th was the next day Phoebe saw Linda again and Linda had her stay that night with her to before she was gonna leave for Malacuda again to go start her new life. While there, she called her mom Natalie and asked if she could rent her cottage in Malacuda if she moved back. So she was trying to set this all up. She was like, ready. Linda said when Phoebe woke up the next morning,

November 20th, she seemed totally with it, coherent, clear-headed. She even wrote some poetry and drew some drawings and gave them to Linda. She was like, she was in a very, she was always in these like creative moods where she would just like create all of a sudden and just just that she was always doing poetry, painting, drawing, you know, like writing in her journal. Apparently she carried a journal everywhere she went. Mm-hmm. And we just write random things. She was always writing. So at the time Linda said, I took this as like, she's in a really good place. She's great. And she's like, now I look back

on it and I'm like, well, she calling for help. I don't know what this was. Right. So she said she's was ready to go to Malacuda, but then Aunt calls and asked her if she could meet with him and talk. No, I'm busy. She agreed. And after their meeting, she moved back into the Blancy at apartments with Aunt. I know. It's just so I'm just like, oh, because we've all been there with that one person. We can always convince you to come back and it's never different.

And it's like, we've all been there. We can all relate. It's so unfortunate November 23rd at 10 a.m Phoebe called her dad and told her aunt had thrown her out and she needed him to pick her up. How many days after that? This was after they got to four days after Wow And they're on a rocky road. Yeah, they're not having a great stretch. Wouldn't call this like a banner week for them. Well, also, it's like, Aunt, like, do you really, like,

Yeah, you're throwing her out. So you're convincing her to stay, and then you're throwing her out. Right, like, make up your mind. Like, do just pick one. Come on, don't do that to somebody. That's shitty. So she called her dad and she's like, I need, I need you to come get me. So he, you know, being a good dad, he immediately canceled all

of his appointments for the day and rushed there. Yeah. He said when she when he got there, she was standing outside with a ton of her things waiting for him. He brought her back to his apartment in South Bank, where he lived with Tom, her brother. Because she is a brother Tom and a brother Nikolai. They're both younger. She was super close to Tom. In fact, they said they were like best friends, which makes me sad. Because I'm sure Tom was devastated. Phoebe stayed there for three nights.

On the third night, which was November 25th, Phoebe met Ant for dinner. Why? Yes. He begged her to come back and she agreed again. This is a very frustrating lead-up. She met with Linda the next day for lunch again and chatted about the whole ordeal, but Linda said she seemed in good spirits again. She wasn't like, you know, she didn't seem depressed to me. She didn't seem erratic. She seemed very clear-headed. Told me the whole thing, and she said

that she was very excited about a trip to Paris that the two of them were going to take aunt and herself. OK. So she was like looking forward to, OK, we're going to get things back on track. We're going to go to Paris, and we're gonna have this great romantic adventure. So Phoebe had her weekly breakfast with her dad at 8 a.m. the following Monday

at French fantasies in South Yara. Apparently this was kind of, this was something they did weekly, obviously. And it was kind of a way to not only spend time with his daughter, but to also keep an eye on her too. It's kind of keep tabs. She told him she and Aunt were going to a U2 concert Wednesday. She was super excited about it.

She also told her dad that she and Aunt wanted to take him to dinner for his birthday that Thursday night, her dad's birthday. She wanted to take her, him to like her favorite restaurant, which I forget the name of, but it comes up later. After breakfast that day, later around 245 p.m., she rode her bike to Linley Godfrey, Solan, where she had previously worked in Madant, and she had coffee with Linley. She went back to Bolencia after that, and she normally had to bring her bike into the apartment because there wasn't a space for her outside. But that day, Eric Giamario, the apartment manager, who is also important to this story, told her there was a permanent space open for her now, one had opened up.

Oh, that's nice. And she had really been waiting for that because she didn't like bring her bank all the way up there. Yeah. So he was like, he figured she was going to be psyched, but he said she like barely even noticed him speaking to her and was acting kind of strange and not her cheerful self. So he said just something was off about her. Okay. I was like, I don't know. Like, he didn't know her super well,

but he was like, I see her own time. I knew her enough to know that she's typically very happy. Now, the records from Ant's key fob, which was what you had to use to get in and out of the apartments, you had to use them for everything, like in the garage, you could not get in that place without your personal key fob. OK.

It showed that he returned home November 29th at 350 PM. A bit later, he and Phoebe went to dinner with their friends, the Rockmans. Phoebe went to dinner with their friends, the rockmen's. Phoebe had apparently promised him to chill on the drinking that night, and she promised she would only have a maximum of two wines, but that did not happen. And according to Aunt, she began being a little too personal

with Mrs. Rockman and telling her about her depression and just getting a little too deep. Which we, you know, everybody does when they've had a few causes. Oh, so I've been there. So it's like, yeah. Like, you want to hear my life story? Let me tell you all of my problems. Let's order one more wine and I will tell you about my life. That's when you start just spitting in your palms and being like we are Solcissed literally like that was probably happening. Mm-hmm. Of course, and it wasn't finding this charming or funny No, he was probably embarrassed because he was super into his fucking self in this exactly

So he tried to make her stop, but she kept going so he got pissed and took her home early Hi, I'm Lindsey Graham the the host of Wondery's podcast American scandal. We bring to life some of the biggest controversies in US history, presidential lies, environmental disasters, corporate fraud. In our newest series, we look at the Kids For Cash scandal, a story about corruption inside America's system of juvenile justice.

In Northeastern, Pennsylvania, residents had begun noticing an alarming trend. Children were being sent away to jail in high numbers, and often for committing only minor offenses. The FBI began looking at two local judges, and when the full picture emerged, it made national headlines. The judges were earning a fortune, carrying out a brazen criminal scheme, one that would shatter the lives of countless children and force a heated debate about punishment and America's criminal justice system. Follow American scandal wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on the Amazon Music or Wonder App.

What if you were trafficked into a cult over shot nine times, or fell in love with a vampire, or went into a minor surgery and woke up one week later, paralyzed. What would you do? I'm Whit Missaldine, the creator of this is actually happening, a podcast from Wondry that brings you extraordinary true stories of life-changing events told by the people who lived them. From a young man that dooms his entire future with one choice, to a woman

who survived a notorious serial killer. You'll hear their first person account of how they overcame remarkable circumstances. Each episode is an exploration of the human spirit and personal discovery. These haunting accounts sound like Hollywood movies, but I assure you this is actually happening. Followed this is actually happening wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Add Free on the Amazon Music or Wondery app. They got back at around 7.51 pm. They were not out that long. He said she kept drinking in her rage when she got home.

She just kept like rage drinking because she was when she got home. She just kept like rage drinking because she was like, fuck you. She was like, fuck you, man. And she called Linda at her friend Linda at 8.30 p.m. and told her about the fight. She wanted to stay with Linda. And Linda was like, you can totally stay with me because I'm a great friend. She really was a good friend. But she was like, the only problem is I can't have another all nighter with you again, because I have to wake up for like a meeting next morning. Right. Which is understandable. So Phoebe was like, okay, I kind of want to like stay up and party. So she was like, all right, I'll call

somebody else. So she called a couple of other friends to vent and then she eventually landed on a friend named Brent Hessian. He agreed to meet her for drinks at 11.30 pm. I believe she dated his older brother at one point. I think she did, you know, figure. Right after the teacher. Yeah. I knew there was some connection there.

Yeah. He agreed to meet her for drinks at 11.30 pm, which I was like, whoa, I can't hang. That's not that alarming. I can't hang. 11.30 pm, I'm like, woo, time for bed. 11 That's not that alarming. I can't hang. 11.30 p.m. I'm like, woo, time for bed. 11.30 is like when I got to the bar on Sunday. Dear God, yeah.

Yeah. They were going to meet, they met at the European beer cafe and she was super happy, super upbeat. He said that she arrived and was like totally herself. He also said that her phone rang constantly and it was Ann's. Shocking. So she had just to, for the record,

because this is important too. She had two phones that she used. She had a new iPhone, which was an Ann's name. And she had an older Nokia, which was hers, like originally. And she kept that just for numbers. Oh, she didn't feel like transferring all the numbers. I feel her on such a spiritual part. So creative.

Like that's a creative vibe. Yeah, just with these silly little, like, you know, idiosyncrasies. Yeah, just little cool things that she has going on. So little quirks, that's what I was trying to think of. That's a cool things, you know, that word. You know, cool things. You know, cool things she's got going on.

The quirks. The idiosyncrasies also the right word for that kind of, or is that good? Is that rude? No, I don, that word. You know, cool things. You know, cool things she's got going on. The quirks. The city of St. Grisys also the right word for that kind of, or is that good? Is that rude? No, I don't think so. I don't think so. I just remember seeing an idiot. I like it though.

Right. At midnight that night, Brenn had to go home because he had an early day and she wanted to stay out and party more. So he was like, by all means. She also probably just like didn't want to go back to amps. Yeah, and she was literally like, wanted to stay up. Yeah. And she, and according to him, he said when he left her, she was like by all means she also probably just like didn't want to go back to ants Yeah, she was literally like wanted to stay up. Yeah, and she in according to him She said when he left her she was like skipping down the street like she was just having a blast All right, he's like all right like do you girl? I love that yeah, so she went she ended up after like a little more time

She went to her mom's place in Clifton Hill a little bit later because she had a place in Clifton Hill Also Russell her mom's place in Clifton Hill a little bit later, because she had a place in Clifton Hill also. Russell, her mom's partner was there. Okay. He made her tea and he called her mother to tell her that she was there, safe, but drunk. And they actually stayed up talking until about 3 a.m. Oh, Russell.

Yeah, like she had a lot of people in her life that are like nice, just like I'll sit up and talk with you. The next day was Tuesday, November 30th, and she told both Russell and her grandmother through text that she was going to her job for her shift because she was like, I don't want to get canned. Right. She didn't end up going. She went back to the Bollancy apartments.

She got there around 9.08 a.m. and Ant was already at work. Sometime midday, she ended up that day, she called her psychiatrist and asked if she could see her. Okay. But her psychiatrist didn't have any appointments open that day and she didn't even have any phone appointments. So she actually told her to call a hospital in the area and was like, if you need to talk to somebody,

like if you feel like calling. And apparently Phoebe did call them, but was not whatever answer she got or whatever what happened. She wasn't happy with, because she called the psychiatrist back. And she was like, I really don't have time. I can't. Like, we'll have to make another day. Oh, no.

So later that afternoon, she used her Nokia to call Bren again. And she told him that if he didn't call her back, she would throw herself on a way and leave the world. Okay. Apparently that to put on someone. Well, apparently according to Bren, he got the message around six and said he wasn't even worried because she was always pulling shit like that. Right. He was like this. Yeah, he was like, she was kind of dramatic. So he was like, I'm not, I wasn't worried about it. Oh, so he did, he was like, she was kind of dramatic. So he was like, I'm not, I wasn't worried about it. Oh.

So he did, he called her back, but the phone was off. And he was like, I honestly was not worried that she had done anything, because he was like, I just didn't think about it. I knew who she was. Yeah. So this same day goes kind of in a crazy direction too. So there was a guy she had met when she was in an adult education program when she first started dating aunt.

She was doing an adult education program for a while. And I think she was doing like art history and something else. I can't remember exactly. Sure. She was taking some awesome classes. Oh, writing, professional writing. Okay. She ended up stopping those classes after like a few months, but she was doing them. When she was going to this adult education program,

she bonded with this guy in her class. They really related to each other, especially with drug and alcohol use, both of them were kind of in the same boat. After 2009, which was when they were going to classes together, he was trying to get his shit together. When everything started happening with Phoebe and Ant in 2010, he hadn't spoken to Phoebe since that time

in 2011 or so. So it had been a while. But he told police that in the time that he knew Phoebe, he had met Ant a few times and he actually really liked him. OK. He said, according to, he said, as far as I could see, which is just me, a casual observer of being around him. Which is like not super intimate.

Yeah. He said he seemed like a genuine person and he seemed to make Phoebe happy. Okay. Again, he had a very small port hole in turn life. Right. Now, on November 30th, this guy, who is not named in any of the sources I saw,

okay. Got a Facebook message from Phoebe saying she wanted to meet up. So this was the same day, you know, the day after she went out with Bren and all that good stuff. The same day that she called Bren, right? Yeah. So she said she had some issues and she needed to talk to somebody and she said she felt bad about burdening her family with them anymore and she said not because my family

doesn't want to listen but because I feel bad that I keep going to them. Yeah. So they met near the Bolencia apartments for coffee at around 4 pm. He later testified in court that their conversation was amazing. He said one of the best conversations I've ever had. Wow. Said it was like just a great conversation. She seemed totally coherent, totally clear. Okay. He was not worried. She told him she was going to volunteer in India, put that out there again.

And she was feeling like her life with Ant was making her feel insulated from the real world. Right. So she wanted to get out there. She wanted to see more. They talked relationships. I think he was having trouble in his relationship of the time too. And she said that she felt embarrassed that she worked such a low job and that aunt deserved better. Oh, I don't like that. I feel like he was putting this kind of stuff in that. He was. Well, because he made her quitter job as a receptionist. And it's obviously. But even the one he gave her, she was already still feeling like I'd break a little bit.

Right. Yeah. So later that after they talked and all that good stuff, she persuaded him to drive her to Port Melbourne to get drugs from a dealer. Oh. She got two ecstasy tablets. Then they went back to this guy's house

because this guy is also an artist. The drug dealer? No, the drug friend from our house because this guy is also an artist. The drug dealer? No, the guy. Oh, the friend from the art class. This guy is also an artist. So he was like, let me just show you my art pieces and we'll talk about art. It will be cool.

He said that she definitely took at least one of those pills before they got there. And she ended up trying to kiss him. He claims he told her no, and that she got violent. Okay. He said he had to actually like restrain her to calm her down. Like he said she just like flipped a switch. Right. And he just attributed to drugs. Yeah. So at 603 pm, Ant was going getting home to the apartment and Phoebe obviously wasn't there. He texted Bren who she had contacted earlier

at 6.25 pm and asked where she was, but Bren ignored the message. Because he was like, can I not be involved in this? Yeah, he was like one, and I guess Bren also hadn't really talked to Aunt that much, so he was like, why is this guy texting me? Phoebe got in the car with that guy from school that she tried to kiss. And fortunately.

And he said her mood swings were insane. Like, happy one second, then sad, yelling, then silent. Like, she was just having a moment. She was rolling quite hard. Rollin' face. She made him let her out of the car in West Melbourne near Festival Hall at exactly 9.30 pm. She got to answer apartment somehow at 12.29 am. There's no records of these three hours in

between. She got out of the car with this guy's like, I lit her out of the car. That's the last time I saw it was 9.30 between then and 12.29 pm. Nobody knows what she did. What had I've taken her a long, long time to walk to? I'm not positive, but somehow she got back and I mean, obviously she went on like a bender that night I think. Okay.

Because Phoebe was still asleep when Aunt left for work the next morning around night am. He said he took her iPhone with him. Which is too shitty. Which is too shitty. I him, which is because he was getting it. I think he was like said he was getting it repaired. I don't even know. This actually becomes this move here that he says he took her phone that morning becomes a thing later in the investigation because the iPhone, her iPhone, was used to send a pretty weird text message that was from Phoebe at about 10.30 a.m. that same day.

So he's saying I left at 9 a.m. I took the phone, right. But somehow a text message went from that phone from Phoebe, right, to a bunch of people at 10.30. Lynn, her dad and a bunch of other members of her family got a weird text that said, Hi, family, I am in bed and about to sleep. And when I wake, I will transform into the most incredible human being you've ever seen, not. I will go to the hospital, it's safe for there. And I hear the special tonight is tomato soup, delicious, nutritious.

I love you all very much, but not enough to send an individual text. Sorry about that, but time is sleep and I must be on my way. Marley, Marley, Marley, life is but a dream, exo. I don't like that. So to me, first that's concerning. But it also seems like she's being like, I want to get sober. Yeah, like I want to go to the hospital. That seems to me like in a very maybe creative way. Yeah. A very like tortured artist way. Exactly. So that message went out to lend her dad. It went to aunt. Okay. It went to her boss.

It went to her mother Natalie. Her brother's Tom and Nikolai, her grandmother Jeanette and Natalie's partner Russell. Okay. Natalie, her mother, was very concerned about this message. So she called Jeanette, the grandmother in Malacuda. And she was like, can you check on Phoebe? Like, can you call her or do something? Jeanette also was very concerned about this message. So she called

Ant on his cell phone at 10.35 a.m. and she was like, it's Phoebe, all right. Right. He was like, yeah, I didn't even see the message. Like I didn't even notice that. Convenience. Yeah, exactly. And he was like, oh, I left Phoebe sleeping this morning. She was sleeping peacefully. But he didn't say like, I have her phone. No. And he said, you know what? I'll swing by at some point during the work day and I'll check on it. Here. So, so Jeanette sent Natalie, her mom, a text saying, don't worry, Aunt said she's fine, and then he's going to check on her. So everybody was like, all right, cool. Well, I'm sure they were like somewhat used to this kind of,

not, I don't think this level of fairness, but like they were like, okay, it's Phoebe. Yeah, like maybe Phoebe's just, you know, and honestly, they were probably thinking like, she probably went on a bender. Yeah, like maybe she's just been weird. She might even still be drunk. We don't know.

Right, exactly. So they're just kind of checking. And that almost does seem like a drunk text. Oh, weirdo. But it was very coherent. Right, everything was spelled correctly. Yeah. And it had a chain of events.

It seems like a drunk thought. Thought. Yeah, exactly. There were other strange things about the events of that day. After Aunt talked to the later, he called her back and he said, Hey, I went to the apartment. Phoebe was still sleeping off a bender. And he said, I'll make sure she calls you when she wakes up.

So you can hear from her. In his second police statement, he said that during when he went to visit Phoebe in the middle of the day, that Phoebe told him she'd taken two sleeping pills and these were called still knocks and they were actually prescribed to aunt to help him sleep on the plane to Paris. Okay. So he got concerned and he said he took the pill bottle with him back to the to work. And he didn't say why?

Like, he didn't say I was concerned she was going to overdose. He was more, yeah. I think he was more concerned that she would accidentally overdose. Like, maybe she would wake up and take more, but not mean to. I don't think it was. Yeah, yeah. She suicidal. But there doesn't seem to be any record of this visit.

And by record, you mean the fobs, that key fob, which is weird because exactly every other exact night. There's a record. And there has to be, you can't get into this place without using your key fob. So Phoebe's grandfather, Lauren Campbell, was a former homicide detective. And he was like a really well respected homicide detective. People said he was very thorough, he was very fair, he was meticulous, like they trust him. So her grandfather, like later when everything went down,

was the one who really focused on this lack of key fob, information for this visit that he claimed he made because it does not make any sense. Yeah. And he went through the key fob records for December 1st when he said he was there and he got them from Eric, Gianmario, the manager of the apartment. And Eric said to the corner during the whole inquest that happens later, he said, Balenciia residents, whether they're coming or going, were recorded every single time by these key

fobs. And they were individually numbered. And you had to use it to get in the escalator, or escalator, you had to use it to get in the elevator, the car garage, the front door, your door, literally every single part. So he's like, this just doesn't make sense. Right. There's no record. And the record seemed to show that day that aunt left the building at 9 a.m. when he went to work and he came back at 7.33 p.m. Nothing in the middle of the day. So what's that about? Yeah. So that day at 2.17 p.m. there was another person that did go in the place, Sally Teller. She worked for as a cleaner. This is the cleaning lady that said he liked it to look like no one lived there. She said she came for her regular Wednesday, clean, that she did every week.

Did she see Phoebe? Yes. And she said she had her own key fob and apartment key. Okay. So that's how she got in and that's recorded. She said when she actually let herself in, she was surprised that Phoebe was in the apartment because she was usually not there when she came. She said she cleaned the other end of the apartment away from the bedroom,

and then she like quietly knocked on the bedroom door. She said Phoebe came out. She was wearing a t-shirt and shorts, and she said, she, Sally says she didn't smell any alcohol. She didn't seem like she was out of it. She actually said she was like, are you sick? Do you need me to do anything for you? Like why are you here? And Phoebe just was like, no, it's okay. And she said she gave her this like dazzling smile. Which if you look at any picture, if she does have a dazzling smile.

Yeah. So she said she just gave her this big smile. I was like, no, I'm totally fine. Like thank you. And she said she didn't look sick. And she said she definitely didn't look depressed to me. And she goes she didn't look sick. And she said, she definitely didn't look depressed to me. And she goes, and the only reason I'm saying that is because she said she herself suffered from depression in the past. And she said when she was in her

her deep depression, she goes, I never could have produced a smile like that. And she's like, that's just me, like speaking from Right. And she also told police later that she always liked Phoebe. And she said she actually didn't like the way Aunt treated her. She said their relationship seemed like a parent child, or a relationship where he would like, scold her. Because he was so much older than me.

Yeah. So I think she, and she said she never liked how he was with her. And, but she really liked Phoebe. She's like, she was always nice to me, always respectful, and like like just a nice person. Right. So after the bed, after she cleaned the bedroom, Phoebe went back to bed with an eye mask on according to Sally.

And she finished cleaning the apartment, she left around 5 p.m. Aunt came back at 7.33 p.m. when the key fob records him coming back. Mm-hmm. He said that, no, this is according to him. He said that he and Phoebe stayed in that night. He ran her a bath. He gave her a massage.

Oh, wow. What a sweet fellow. He cooked dinner. And then he also said he showed her the tickets to Paris so that she would feel excited that they were already, here's the tickets. We were already doing this. So around 8 p.m. that night, Phoebe called her father, Len. They talked for about 11 minutes, and she told her father that she was still feeling hungover

from her bender. But she said, ants looking after me, like we're fine. Okay. Anything's cool. So maybe he did run her own. Yeah. Who knows? She also said to him, quote, I really need to stop doing this. So he said to him, accompanied with that text message that she sent. He was like, to me it seemed like

she just didn't want to do this like bender at stuff anymore. Right. Like it was getting older. Like I should together. Like I want to do this like bender and stuff anymore. I mean, it was good. I should together like I can't do this. Right. So this was the last time that Lin spoke to his daughter. Mm-hmm.

Now this brings us to the night of December 2, 2010. This is the night that Phoebe Hans-Juck died. Now again, aunt left Phoebe in bed that morning, around 8.30am, because he was going to work, I think he said he went to the gym first. And around 9.45am, we know that she sent an email and used the computer a couple times. Not a lot is known about what she was doing like after that, but we do know there was a fire alarm in the Balenciia apartment building at 11.43 a.m. There's also CCTV footage of Phoebe and her dog evacuating with everyone.

There is a point where she's outside and she stumbles against a wall a bit, but it could just be that the dog is pulling her. And I mean, like, anybody who has a dog as a small big medium, whatever, they can like knock you over no matter what. So I don't think it was necessarily that she was like drunk or anything.

When she walked back in, she's walking fine too. So then she goes back in, she's walking fine, 11.50 AM. She got back in the building, that's when they let everybody in. The last picture of her taking alive is at 11.50 a.m. No one knows what happens what happened between you know that time in six p.m. sometime in there she went into the building's garbage shoot which is building's garbage shoot. Which is fucking some. Yes. That's the the crux of this whole thing and I

will get very much into it. But just warning, this is like graphic, how she died is pretty gross. So, um, ant drove into the apartment building around 6.05 pm. He used his key fob to open the gate. It's all recorded. He later said he didn't know if the front door

to the apartment was locked or not. He couldn't remember, which is like whatever. He said when he got in there, Phoebe wasn't there. Okay, at 6.05, she was not in the apartment. When he looked on the kitchen counter, he said that her keys and her purse were there. He thought that was weird, because he was like, again, you can leave, but you can't come back in without keys.

So why are your keys here? Where are you? And also your purse is there, where you can't go far. Uh-huh. So there were also several post-it notes around the kitchen that had like weird scribbles and they were on the kitchen counter. Uh-huh. Uh, and he said this kind of stuff like she would do this stuff when she was drunk apparently.

She would like scribble on post-it notes. Just like scribble, like it didn't say anything. I think it was like, I think it was supposed to say something, but it was hard for him to like understand. Yeah. He, so he said he went into their bedroom and he found what he later referred to as a quote, shrine on the bed. The shrine was a photo of he and Phoebe, a photo of her cat, and a bunch of random notes. And he said, the notes that she writes when she smashed and they don't make a lot of sense. That's how he described them.

Okay. He said there were candles burning and Phoebe's hair straightener was on the floor plugged into the wall. Okay. The shrine later gets called into question. Whether it existed. Is it existed?

Personally, I don't think it existed. Okay. Nobody else who went into that apartment said they saw don't think it existed. Okay. Nobody else who went into that apartment said they saw a shrine of any kind. Okay. Just saying, again, I wasn't there, I don't know. But to me, it doesn't look like it was there. At 6.51 pm, which was about 40 minutes

after he arrived home, Phoebe's dad called her on her iPhone. Now, this is where Len and Ant differ on their stories, too, which makes it a little suspicious. According to Len, Phoebe's father, he has all the numbers shown on his phone bill, and he's going off of that, like what happened next. So according to Len's phone bill records that he's going off of he calls Phoebe's phone and answered it and that's what happened.

Aunt said he didn't hear the phone but he called him from his own phone at 6.52 p.m. because he thought maybe Phoebe was with Lynn. Okay. So now they have two different stories, but her dad has a phone build record to exactly like back it up. Exactly. So there's this so many things like this that you're just like, uh, wait a second. Mm hmm. I just want to put it out there one more time.

Both of his parents are judges. I just want to put that out there. I'm not saying anything about. I'm just putting his put that out there. I'm not saying anything about. I'm just putting his family background out there. So however they ended up speaking on his phone, Phoebe's phone, whatever the help. Lynn said he's been trying to call Phoebe and he was like, we were supposed to all go to dinner tonight because remember for his birthday at the golden triangle. I guess I was like Phoebe's favorite restaurant. And he was like, we were supposed to go tonight to celebrate my birthday. So I was calling to say when we should meet, like what time. Aunt said she's not here. Her bag and

keys are here so she can't be too far. So Len was like a little worried. He was like, what do you mean? He was like, she's not making any sense. She's like, you made this plan. I don't know. Now you're telling me her keys and purse are there. So he was like, maybe you should report her missing. Like, I'm worried. That's not normal.

And family things weren't something that she missed. Like, no. It's not that she was like this crazy alcoholic that didn't show up for family things. Exactly. She was always involved in her family stuff And he was like the fact that her person keys are there That's a lot of concerns me. So he was like, why don't you report her missing and it was like no And then he was like they won't listen to me until like 48 hours have passed and like she'll come back

That's not true and then was like, I don't know So her dad called her brother Tom the one that she was very close to, and he was like, will you call some friends who might like know where she is? Right. So he also rang Natalie Phoebe's mother, and she hadn't heard from Phoebe either, and she had texted her earlier in the day. So from Phoebe there and she had texted her earlier in the day. So Natalie called a couple of Phoebe's friends, including Bren, the one that shows up every now and then. Bren said he hadn't seen Phoebe since that Monday night when they had gone out for that drink together.

He was like, I heard from her, you know, the following day, but that was it. I didn't talk to her. So he, but he did relate to them. Like she seemed like she was kind of on a bender, like just putting it out there. Meanwhile, Len was like, okay, I'm going to just sit here and wait for now. Like I'm not going to go crazy. I'm just going to try to calm myself down. So he even said he was like, I changed for dinner.

Like I'm ready because I he was like, you know what? She's going to show back. I don't know. That makes me ready because he was like, I know what she's gonna show back at. I know that makes my heart fucking hurt, dude. I know. Now at the Valencia apartment, this is weird to me. Aunt called the golden triangle, the restaurant. Yeah, this part is fucking weird.

And he got take out for one. Like what? Yeah, that's just weird. I don't know how that, I don't know why that's so weird, but it's weird. Well, because it's like, so the three of you, we're going to be going out to this place, which is her favorite place. She's not there and she's missing right now. You don't know where she is.

And you're going to get take out. And you order take out from this place for one. For one. So you're not expecting her to come back. Yeah. That to me says like, I murdered her. She's not here. So just after 8 p.m.

he was going to buzz the delivery guy up to, they were on the 12th floor of their apartment. And the delivery guy said, man, what's going on here? And he was like, what do you mean? What's going on? What do you guys do? And he said,, what do you mean? What's going on? What's going on? What's going on?

And he said, the front of the building is swarming with cops. There's police cars, ambulance. I had to prop my bike up on the street. Hope your dinner isn't cold. So it was like, what? So now I'm going to switch to the hotel staff and those who responded first, their perspective of this afternoon. Okay.

Into the night. So, same day, we're talking about December 2nd, the day the Phoebe hands Jack when missing and ended up dying. At around 4 p.m., that's when the concierge of the hotel Beth Ozzelup arrived at the apartments. Eric, the manager that we've talked about a few times, he stayed on with her for about an hour and he was just kind of like catching her up

on the day and like, you know. So he also said that the garbage compactor had just been majorly serviced and he said he wanted to go look in and make sure everything was like working properly before he left, but he didn't have time. Because he said it was 5 p.m. and he said he had to take his son to a music lesson and he really had to run out and go. So he was like, can you go check on it for me? So at 6.05 p.m. the fire alarm went off again, which was odd that this happened twice. Twice, exactly.

But it turns out that they were both like false alarms. And what had happened was there was workers working on a higher floor and the smoke from their tools kept making the alarm go off. Okay. But it was just like a weird day. And she said she just like already felt like he'd be weird. Yeah. Beth also said she never liked going in the trash compactor room because she said it smelled and it was awful. Right. So she was not looking forward to this. So she went down the hall,

she unlocked the door to the compactor room. She tried to open it, but she said something was in the way. It was like she was pushing against something. So she gave it a really big push with her shoulder. And when you do that, there's an automatic sensor that like floods the room with light. And so she said it was bright in there, and she said she saw that a bin had tipped over off the conveyor and that there was just rubbish everywhere. She then saw something else that was between the door and the wall.

She said immediately it looked like a mannequin. But she said then she looked closer and it was bleeding and she said it was very clearly a dark-haired woman lying on her back. Oh, God. So she said she immediately backed away and closed the door and she said she stood outside of the door for like two to three minutes and she said she was just trying to get her shit together and she was like, but I have to look again. I need to know what's going on. Obviously. And she was like, maybe I'm just seeing it wrong and this is so she opened the door again.

And she said she saw just blood everywhere all around the room. And she said it was very clearly a human being on that. Oh, God. And she said there was blood all over the walls. There was congealing blood trails that were leading towards the body from the compactor. And the rest of the floor was covered in trash. Oh, God.

She also said that the back of the door had blood on it. So like smeared blood. She said she screamed and literally ran out of the office. She immediately called Eric and he said that she was completely incoherent and just like inconsolable. And the only thing he caught was dead blood rubbish room, like over and over again.

So he said to call, he was like call triple O, which is there, 911. Right. And he was like, I'm coming right away. So there is CCTV footage of poor Beth, like running up and down the hall, like ringing her hands, crying, like freaking out. Like she lost it.

And within minutes, police cars came. Eric Giamario and Tony Bazel, the manager of the company that operated the apartments, arrived right after the police, somewhere between 7.15 and 7.30 pm. And ambulance also was obviously called. Right. At 7 20 p.m. And they arrived seven minutes later. Okay. They were like, right on it, staff.

Christy Cook was one of the paramedics. She said she ran right to the compact room where she could clearly see a body on the floor. The police officer that was guarding the door stopped her and told her she wasn't permitted to enter because this was a crime scene. And she was like, what? Like, I'm an ambulance, I'm a paramedic.

So she said this literally went against everything she was ever taught. She was like, no, I'm supposed to go in there and save that person or try to. Right. So she was like, no, I'm supposed to go in there and save that person or try to. Right. So she was like, what? And she said, from what she observed from the doorway that moment, she said it was a female

was lying on her back with cuts to her right thigh and hip and with her right foot in an unnatural position. Oh. She said she thought immediately that it was a fractured ankle, obviously. And she said the body showed, quote, showed generalized cyanosis, which is a bluish tinge and no spontaneous respirations and appeared deceased. But she said, this is me from outside the room. Right. So she wasn't happy

about being prevented from going in the room. Because she, and she said even the months after this, she said she lost a ton of sleep at like ruined her. Because she was like said even the months after this, she said she lost a ton of sleep at like ruined her. Because she was like, what if I could have helped her? Yeah. You just don't know. Now, no medically trained person ever attended Phoebe after she was discovered, not once, which is very strange. No. No one laid hands on her to see if she was still warm. They didn't see if she was actually dead. The first people to go in the room were actually crime scene specialists who came hours later. They were the first person to even go in the room. Right.

So nobody even went near her to see. And they said later that going by all those blood trails that were around the room, it wasn't like just splatter, it was like trails. They shouldn't die. They said it was likely that Phoebe had survived the fall and had crawled around the room. It wasn't like just splatter. It was like trails. They shouldn't die. They said it was likely that Phoebe had survived the fall and had crawled around the room and had tried to get out that door. Oh my God. And it had probably died of blood loss. Did the door lock from the inside? Like you couldn't get out of the room if you... That I'm not sure about. Maybe we'll be able to get into that next week when

we go further into it. But I think mostly it seemed like she couldn't, because what we'll find out is her angle was like severed. It was hanging on by muscle. So she probably wasn't able to get herself up and she had also been banged through a compact or at the bottom of the shoot, which again, we're gonna get into that more. So she probably just wasn't able to even get herself together

to get out of that room. She was just trying to. Now, one of the leading homicide investigators in the country, I believe his name is Rowan Lake, was quoted in the Phoebe's Fall podcast as saying, quote, well, from the moment you joined the police force, the most important thing is preservation of life. The protection and preservation of life

is the number one priority. And he said, it was ridiculous that no one checked for vitals ever. And the thing is, they all now agree that she was most certainly alive when she got to the bottom of the shoe. Yeah, she had to open. And she possibly could have been saved if someone just bothered to check and see if she had any vital signs I hate that again

It's not like likely maybe she would have most likely she wouldn't have been saved But they didn't even try we're gonna stop part one here and Part two is gonna be us discussing exactly how the garbage shoot works, how, and how her grandfather, the retired homicide detective, is going to great lengths to prove that she did not put herself in that shoot. Because from the immediate looks of it, people were like, OK, it's a suicide. Which again, I have like the autopsy and everything

that we're going to go through in part two. But that seemed to be what they all decided was the official cause of death and her family and friends and police officers agree, like retired police officers are like, no, that doesn't make sense. So we're going to go into all of that. We're going to go into the physics of why. It doesn't make sense that she put herself in there.

And we'll get more into the unfortunate injuries that she suffered because what ended up happening was somehow she went from the 12th floor in the garbage shoot, went 12 floors down, and went through a compactor at the bottom of this garbage shoot, went 12 floors down and went through a compactor at the bottom of this garbage shoot before being spat out into this compactor room. So she went through like a really awful, awful death. Jesus. So hope you guys stick around for part two

when we're gonna discuss all of the different theories of what happened and this is still like an ongoing thing. We're going to try and get to the truth. We're going to figure this out, guys. From a totally different continent, we're going to figure this out. And Phoebe's mom will be happy because she said, it is the truth we are missing here. We are being told that our daughter, granddaughter and sister put herself into this thing because she was a damaged, disturbed girl, and that is just not true. I don't know what happened.

I just feel sure that she didn't put herself down that shoot either accidentally or on purpose. I agree, man. Not only I'm just, and we're not gonna like, we're not gonna condemn anybody here. Cause obviously we do not have, you know, we're not there. Cause we don't have the legal team to back us up if we do. I was just gonna, and we just don't wanna get sued by anybody.

So, you know, everything's gonna be peppered with alleged least. It's just, if it's gonna be like a little shoot back to the job, but it ramps. Oh yeah, and the cool thing. Yep. We cover our butts. Yeah.

We're gonna hold on to our butts. We're going to tell you what we think, but we're going to throw some allegedly in there. So I think, so hang on for part two, it's going to come out in the beginning of next week. So it won't be long. But I think we're going to transition right from that into thanking some of our patronuses.

Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. So first up, we would like to thank Catherine. I think it's Nick, K-N-A-K-E. As long as it's not Catherine Knight, I will accept it. There you go. Thank you, Catherine Nick.

Wow. And it's an Aussie reference. Aussie, an Aussie. I'll meet those British. That was British an Aussie reference. Aussie and Aussie. I'll meet those British. That was British. Aussie. I think you say Aussie. Aussie.

Aussie. Aussie. I'm asking you a question. I'm asking you a question. I'm going to say it. I'm going to say it. I'm going to say it. I'm going to say it.

I'm going to say it. I'm going to say it. I'm going to say it. I'm going to say it. I'm going to say it. I'm going to say it. I'm going to say it. I'm going to say it. I'm going to say it. I'm going to were like, I don't want to get people excited. So I'd like to thank the other Amy Polar. The other Amy Polar. I'm glad that you donated and not the Amy Amy Polar. I'm more excited that you donate. You're the other best. You're the number one

Amy Polar. Let's be real. Oh no. Let's be real. Thanks the other Amy Polar. Thank you Amy Polar. Amy Polar. Let's be real. No more, ooh no. Let's be real. Thanks the other Amy Polar. Thank you, Amy Polar. So the next person we'd like to thank is, thank you, Donnie Girl. Thanks, Donnie Girl.

You're the best. That reminds me of like, brawny paper towels. It does. It reminds me of that as well. Or Donnie, or Don soap. Yes, that's what it is. It reminds me of, um, animals covered in oil. What a wonderful thing to think of.

What a wonderful world. So thanks, Donny girl. Thank you. The next person we would like to thank is actually we would just like to say to this person, um-hmm. Happy late anniversary, Marsha, from your husband Dave. Happy late anniversary, Marsha. He said you love our podcast, which makes me very happy. So thank you. Dave

That was kind. Yeah, and he was like she'll be really excited if you say that. Let's all find a Dave. Happy lay day anniversary, Marsha. Happy lay anniversary and here's to many more. Here's to many more. Thanks guys. Thanks guys Next person we want to thank is Thank you Christina Mans. Whose man says this? Whose man says this? It's Christina's man. It is.

Thanks Christina. Thank you. Find your man's. Find him. Now the next person we wanna thank is Veronica Wolfe. That would have been a better name for the show, Veronica Mars. It would.

Thanks Veronica. You're a wolf, We love you. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Next person we're going to thank is Alyssa Horn. We're going to blow our horn trumpet because you're the best. To your horn girl. That's what I should have said. Thank you Alyssa. Thank you. What's a horn trumpet? In the last patronus that we are thinking on this episode. It is. It is. Ever. We're never thinking anyone else. This is it.

Thank you, Ambrosia Shelton. What? That just... One more time. Ambrosia Shelton. Yes. Right? Thank you, Ambrosia Ambrosia Shelton. Yes. Right? Thank you, Ambrosia. That was Shelton. That was like smooth caramel butter.

It was like butter. I love your name. I just felt good, Ambrosia. I like this. I like it. Thank you, Ambrosia, for existing. For real. Thank you to everybody.

Thank you to all our patronesses. Thank you so much. You you to all our patronesses. Thank you so much. You're listening and you want to hear your name, but you haven't donated to the Patreon yet. You can head on over to patreon.com slash morbidpodcast. And donate if you're feeling so inclined. If you're feeling inclined.

If you're not feeling that inclined, you can keep up with us on Instagram by following us at morbidpodcast. And then if you don't have an Instagram, maybe you have a Twitter and you want to follow us and tweet at us. A Morbid Podcast. And maybe you're real kicking an old school and you just want to email us. Morbid Podcasts at gmail.com. And if you don't have any social media whatsoever but at least you have a computer you can head over to our website at morbidpodcast.com and check us out to it. We hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird! Bye!

I don't want to do one about this case. This one's sad, yeah. So stay tuned for part two guys. Bye! Love you, Nina. Hey, Prime Members! You can listen to Morvid, Early, and Add Free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen Add Free with Wondery Plus and Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey.