Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Bounceback Culture with Melissa Suffield

Episode Date: February 20, 2023

There is a huge pressure on mums to bounce back and look like they never even had a baby - thankfully people like Melissa Suffield (aka TheConfidentMama) exist to fight back against this bounceback culture. We chat about raising body confident kids, about her relationship with her body, and how she exclusively pumped for a year.Get in touch with us on emaill at [e-mail] or on our whatsapp on 07599927537. ---A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Well hello, I'm not even going to do an intro today because I feel like I don't have much to catch you up on. The baby is still inside me, I'm still waiting, so I want to talk about something that is probably very close to my heart but very close to everyone's heart and that is the very, very annoying bounce back culture and the pressure that has put on mums to look like they've not had a baby even though they've had a baby and it's mad because I've noticed it this pregnancy it's weird because I feel like I'm in a postnatal body but obviously I'm in a pregnant body as well and you know I'm getting all the like wow you're glowing you look amazing and I know that in just a few weeks it's's all going to stop.

And then it's going to be like, are you going to the gym? Or have you thought about getting back into exercise? Or, you know, it's relentless, isn't it? So I'm going to go straight into this week's guest. She is absolutely brilliant. You might know her as a former EastEnders star. She was Lucy Beale and started really young. So I want to talk about your own journey with body confidence around that. But she is now more popularly known as the confident mama online. And she's just brilliant. She really embraces every single inch of her body, frequently posting about body confidence and self-love but also encouraging us to do the same she is mum to two-year-old son river great name i'd like to welcome melissa suffield yes i know alice got the same middle name hasn't he i put rivers only

because tommy's surname is andrews so i thought alf Alfie River Andrews was a bit of a like yeah I just put the s there we double barreled our surnames so it's Carter Robinson but otherwise it was going to be River Robinson and I was like it's cool but it might be a smidge too much so we wedged another one in there but hello thank you so much for coming on I see you well I see your posts all the time and I also see um you in the tabloids getting attention all the time as well when I say getting attention it's not always the kind of attention you want absolutely not uh yeah they love it and I really don't know why but there we go do you know what it's absolutely brilliant what you do because you just consistently show up loving yourself.

And I feel like you can really tell when it is authentic. And I know how much mums need to, well, I mean, the world needs to see that. Let's be honest, like diet culture and unrealistic beauty standards. It exists for everyone. But especially as a new mum. I feel like even for me, I was quite, I've got to a point where I felt very body confident, but it's still a challenge because you look in the mirror

and you don't recognize your body. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's not, it's not a linear process at all. You don't just wake up and go, I feel great. So that I'm going to feel great forever now. Cause I've like, I've hit that place. And now that's how I'm going to continue. I don't feel great all the time I

will constantly look in the mirror and go oh god this is a nightmare or like I'll try and put on a pair of jeans and just go oh they look shit like what am I going to do but that's okay like any journey and like any therapy because that's what I call it becoming body confident is like a therapy it takes a lot of kind of looking at yourself and evaluating yourself and finding ways in which to really connect with who you are as a person and not just what you look like so to do all of those things it does take a lot of work it shouldn't be an easy journey it shouldn't be something that just wakes up and happens it should be something that evolves because we evolve and you know that's one of the kind of messages that I really try and hit

on in my Instagram is that like we change and that's absolutely correct it would be insanely weird if we didn't change if we didn't sag or wrinkle and if we didn't change our likes and our dislikes it would be just really weird if we all got to like 70 and look the same even the women who try not to change still get criticism. So it just shows that you cannot win, especially as a woman. No, you can't win at all. And I think, you know, there's always going to be some person, you can say the sky is blue and they're going to go, it's actually red.

So like it's at this point, I just focus on kind of feeling happy in myself. Then I focus on my next circle circle which is like my immediate family and my friends and the people that I know and trust and love and then I focus my attention on the wider world and you can I don't have to please strangers anymore I don't have to anyway but I really don't have to anymore I found that place in my life where I'm just like whatever you crack on I'll crack on it's fine I'm just like whatever you crack on I'll crack on it's fine I don't know you you don't know me and we can just exist like that it's fine it's interesting because you would have started what we like to call show business

um before the world of social media but also you were my math is really rubbish but you would have been 12 I was 11 I was turning 12 um so yeah I was super young when I started EastEnders but I had been working since I was like two shall we say so I was very used to like sets and filming and all of that and audition process so I had already built up a good level of like confidence and resilience because you know you don't get every job and sometimes when you're eight you go oh that's a real shame so you get to 11 and actually you're kind of ready for it but yeah it was before social media really kicked off properly um I think I first got Facebook when I was maybe 14 so it was really before that but it's changed since then you know what was it like for you growing up in this pretty cutthroat world in

terms of your relationship with your body and your confidence yeah so I was like a late bloomer shall we say so I was like I did ballet a lot like loads of ballet so I was miniature all the time because I basically never stopped moving and I had like no boob no nothing and I was just like oh this is crap I just wanted a bit more do you know what I mean and obviously it all came later on but that was kind of my first tango with body image shall we say and my mum really did such a good job of like shielding me from looking at myself from a lens of like the public I never it just never even occurred to me when I was younger.

I just did my job and I'd go to school and I loved it. It was really when social media came around that then you start to pick up on it. Not because, you know, I've got a, I've always had it and I always stick with it. Never Google yourself, never go looking. People can say what they like, just don't do it. Like I now am in such a place where I'm just like, you People can say what they like, just don't do it. Like I,

I now am in such a place where I'm just like, you could literally say whatever you like about me, unless you bring it to my doorstep, I'm not going to hear it. I refuse to do it. But you have people bringing it to your doorstep all the bloody time. So it's really difficult to kind of ignore a lot of it because it will come to you. And I think it was in that era maybe between say the ages of like 16 and 20 where I really found it to be quite relentless and just be like guys everyone lay off I'm actually a child like everyone calmed down what kind of comments were there was it about like your like your body shape or was it yeah it was it wasn't so much like um demeaning like it i mean it was super demeaning but it wasn't being they didn't think they were being critical put it that way it was men messaging me this that and the other and i was like for a start gross for a second super gross um and then

there was a real nasty little trend of people would put like soap stars faces over like porn stills and that was insanely fucking gross because you know they were doing that when I was like 17 so that was you know that was dodgy and you'd get people sending them to you whether that be people going look what I found just so you know and I'm like thank you but also just don't send me it because what I don't know won't hurt me, you know? So that's kind of the tact I've taken on now. What I don't know won't hurt me. And the more I kind of try and let in those external factors from people, like I say, that I don't know and I don't care about, so I don't expect them to care about me either. You know, I don't need their opinions anymore anymore but when they bring them to my door it obviously becomes a lot more difficult to kind of reconcile my own feelings about my body alongside

theirs before I take stock of myself and go hold on their their feelings about my body aren't valid at all it must have been so hard to have grown up especially a show like EastEnders because I mean everyone and their nan watched EastEnders absolutely it's it's huge it was like you know the era before Love Island so the soaps is what we gossiped about and the difference was at least soaps were fictional but obviously the actors are real whereas now with reality tv I think people gossip in a way that they forget that those people are actually real yeah there was a lot of there was a lot of line blurring in terms of when it came to character because I obviously played not a very nice character so that you know I had people threatening to push me onto train tracks and I was like I

didn't do it it's not me um I had someone in a nightclub toilet once call me a bitch for not giving my baby to Jane I was like again not me sorry so there was there's a lot of like disconnects I think when you grow up in people's homes and you grow up in front of them they feel like maybe an ownership to you well I guess like they know you exactly they think they know me my thing was Hollyoaks and I remember um meeting someone at Hollyoaks when I was at uni they were like in the club obviously their mates must have gone to uni there and I was like come and dance with us and they were like no you're right yeah and I remember just being like oh but it's awful I do it now though I'll be like oh my god I know you and I really really don't and I've got to remember that I actually don't and there

needs to be like a really clear boundary because I've clearly made my boundary very clear clear and I need to allow them to do the same and I think sometimes we do forget that especially when that person's popping up in your living room four times a week you know you really do feel like you know them but you don't you know their character and there's still a person behind that trying to you know get on with their GCSEs and maybe see their friends once in a while and like still has to do washing up occasionally that kind of thing you know so yeah it was my mum did a very good job of like shielding me from a lot of it though but it's it's obviously since I've left and you know become an adult that now I have to look after myself a lot better. So just before you gave birth where would you say you were at with your own sort of relationship with yourself and your body?

So in 2018, I was living on my own for about a year. And I really kind of went, you know, I've got, you know, loads of kind of extra free time and I feel quite independent and I'm having quite a good time. And I was I was walking loads. I'm not a runner, never will be, never have been, don't like it. But I love walking. And I was doing like 40,000 steps a day. You know, I was waking up at six, putting the trainers on and off I went. Obviously, I can't do that now. There's no way. But I was like a size eight to 10. But I was really having to work at that eight to 10. And I felt great. But it wasn't my natural state you know it was it was taking a lot of hard work to be there and then I got pregnant and I was kind of back in my comfortable state

of maybe like 12 14 but I was still super active I did panto while I was like entering my third trimester like you know Dorothy you're supposed to be 10 years old. What's happened? I'd be like, don't ask. I think I'm giving birth. Oh, no, you're not. No, I am. Honestly, I was like dancing around the stage in this giant dress that my nan had made for me. And we were like really hoping it would maybe, the trapeze effect would cover the bump. And everyone was like, you're very pregnant.

And we could see. So that was interesting. And I was really active right until up to birth. And it was, so I gave birth literally one week before we went into that first lockdown so you know that really scary nobody leave your house because if you even breathe an ounce of outdoor air you will die it was that 2020 that's the one yeah yeah he was the 16th and we popped into that lockdown on the 24th so we were like hunkered down for such a long time and I also um exclusively pumped for a year

so I was very aware of my milk output because obviously I could see everything that was coming out so even an ounce off of one feed that would usually be you know say six ounces and then it was five I'd go oh no my supply it's going away god what am I going to do and just like scarf a whole packet of Oreos and just be like let's crack it back up it's going away god what am I going to do and just like scarf a whole packet of Oreos and just be like let's crack it back up it's fine so I was very I was in a weird place for that year after I gave birth where I was actually really focused on keeping the milk supply so high and to the point where I became quite obsessed with keeping it high so then obviously the calories go up but also I couldn't really go outside and do that much exercise. So I didn't

move. So I got into a weird place around the nine month postpartum mark where I was like, whoa, I'm like bigger than fourth trimester, Melissa. And also I was really living under this illusion that the fourth trimester would end and I'd just be like the pre baby me. Cause you know, that's what basically everything had told me, whether that's TV and film or it's literally what you're seeing in magazines on other people. And I was like, I must've done something wrong.

It must've been the lockdown. You have a six week check and then everything goes back to normal. Exactly. And the six week check, they said, okay, so you're cleared for this and you can do some exercise. And I was like, actually,

could you just take a little look at my stitches while you're here? And they they were like they'll be fine and they were but it didn't stop me from being worried it was very soon for them to say would you like to go for a run I was like I would like nothing less than going for a run um so yeah I just I was operating under that illusion that once I got to that three month postpartum mark that I would feel better I'd feel more like my pre-baby self and there are obviously going to be women out there that do I wasn't one of them though I don't think many do I would love to know anyone listening did you feel like your old self at three months because I would bet I mean I still feel like I'm only just starting to figure out

not my even my old self because my old self doesn't exist but like yeah those people are going to feel a bit more like me but with the new version and obviously I'm about to throw it all out the window and do it again people say to me would you like a second I'm like shall we just not for a little bit should we just hold off so hats to you. Can I ask a question if it's not too personal? What made you exclusively pump? Because pumping is hard. Oh my God. Yeah, I think people think it's the easy way out.

Let me tell you, it ain't. It's, I like to describe it as a mix of all the worst bits of breastfeeding and all the worst bits of bottle feeding and you just pop them together. It's exactly that. Yeah, so I basically, I was nursing at first and it just wasn't getting any less painful. Basically had a midwife check on the five day and then didn't see anyone past that point

because of lockdown. So there was no one that could come out and help. There was no practical hands-on support. And then I was pumping more and more often. I was like, I wonder if I can just do this oh do people do that have I just invented a thing because nobody talks about it but there are a lot of mums that do it especially in the states where they have to like potentially go back to work so soon after like six weeks yeah exactly so they make pumping their whole life because they have to

so there's a lot of support out there but you have to know where to look it's not this country for a start it's certainly not the NHS they don't have the support available because it's not the norm here but yeah I made the switch to go exclusively pumping when I in a very tired postpartum state removed uh both the nipple pads after I've been asleep and basically took near enough all the skin off with them and I went do you know what I think that's me done with nursing I think that's enough um but yeah I was that could have been the end of it altogether but I was like nope I can do this and I'm going to do this and I'm going to make it my life so that's what I did and I was determined and I stopped dead on his first birthday I was like like, I'm going to do this for this time. But yeah, it was a tough slog.

But I would recommend it still to anyone who wanted to get breast milk and their kid, but just for whatever reason, nursing wasn't for them. Because it doesn't have to be, oh, medically, I have to do this. It can be a personal choice. You know, if I have another one, I have no idea what I'd do. But, you know, there's every chance that I'd go, actually, I made a good rhythm with the pumping and maybe I'd do that again.

You know, I think we have to not patronize mums so much. I think sometimes, you know, because we went for some of the checks for baby, you know, for the vaccinations. They go, is baby on breast or bottle? And I was like, both, neither. And I don't really know how to answer the question. So I think there's a definitely,

as long as we're following like good safety advice, I think there's a lot of wiggle room to let mums kind of work out the best way for their kid. Because I think we have to remember that we're parenting the child we have, not the child we think we should have, or not the child that we not the child we think we should have or not the child that we're told we should have we have to parent the child that we have it's never clearer now than in like this kind of toddlerhood into childhood phase for me have to meet my kid where he's at not vice versa it's not going to work that way

we're both going to be miserable but even as a baby you've got to meet the parenting unit where they are otherwise you're just going to have a lot of you've got to meet the parenting unit where they are. Otherwise, you're just going to have a lot of unhappy parents trying to achieve something that's actually not a goal for them and never should have been. So that was kind of in my brain a lot. It was trusting that we've got the safety nailed because that's, you know, that's a non-negotiable. We've got the happiness nailed for all three of us. And then we flow from there. And that's really worked for me and for us as a unit,

especially now that my partner's away. I take my hats off, my hat, my hats, all of my hats. All of the hats, get them off. Because I tried to put, I remember the first time I pumped and I was like, this is the most unattractive I've ever felt in my life. Oh my God. You don't feel good,'re dairy cow yeah I was

like wow you really do feel like a dairy cow and it's like the sound and everything but when Alf started to bite and I stopped breastfeeding I said okay well I'll carry on pumping and I think I managed about two weeks and I was like this is so miserable so the fact that you did it for a year hats off you've got to get in the right headspace you've got to go from thinking of that noise as a machine to thinking of it as like a sick beat then it really changes everything you're just like and then it's a good time you know so that's kind of that's kind of where I got with it it was it was a lot of reframing to do I just love the thought of you on your own in lockdown making beats up I really was like there are lots of videos of me just bopping around and that I think you know that's kind of part of why

what I do now is because the representation for that side of motherhood like doesn't really exist and like you said like you never feel less attractive than when you're pumping but yeah every single advert for a breast pump that I see has a woman in like jeans, why? White vest, white t-shirt, whatever, on the bed, baby's laying down. She's so smiley. Her hair is washed. She's glowing. I'm like, I don't think out of, and let's face it, I pumped many times. I don't think I ever looked like that when I pumped. when I pumped I would love to see like a campaign where actually the mum looks like pure shit because I'd go I'll buy that pump yeah that that seems that doesn't seem like aspirational it doesn't seem like it's I'm supposed to be inspired by this maternal figure she seems like she'd be my friend and then I would then potentially want to buy the pump more and I think there's a lot of companies that sell to parents could be doing to actually improve people's body image as well. And just the reality of motherhood and not selling this like beautifully packaged, pristine, angelic parcel,

because it's just like not the reality for so many. Like I say, I'm sure there are anomalies. I'm sure there are mums that really are having that perfect heavenly experience, but it's like not most of us you know this advert is organized and funded by sanofi's together against rsv disease awareness campaign and is for uk residents only now i want to take a moment to raise awareness of a respiratory illness called respiratory syncytial virus which is a common and contagious illness in children. RSV causes infection in the lower part of the respiratory system in infants. These are known as lower respiratory tract infections. RSV infection can cause respiratory illnesses such as bronchiolitis, pneumonia and croup. Most RSV

illnesses in babies are mild and clear up on their own, however some cases can be more serious and require hospital care. RSV is a leading cause of lower respiratory tract infections and hospitalisation in children worldwide, affecting 90% of infants by their second birthday. As parents it's important for us to have the information we need to better understand RSV, what can be done to prevent infection and how to spot the signs and symptoms of RSV-related illness. To help support parents

in protecting their children against RSV, Sanofi has launched the Together Against RSV campaign and their website, togetheragainstrsv.com, provides accurate information resources and helpful advice about infant rsv so go to www.togetheragainstrsv.com to learn more about rsv so let's go now you're nine months postpartum and you are suddenly like wow I I didn't bounce back or I

don't feel myself so what was your journey then to now because now you really do like live and breathe whether it's body confidence or body neutrality whatever you want to call it yeah so I just look it was just that looking at myself in the mirror and just going, oh, just, I look like I just had a baby. Like I, I've got still just like that saggy stomach. It's not repositioned itself back where I thought it would. And not because I had, you know, any like separation of abs. There was nothing like to cause it other than just, I hadn't lost the weight. That was the simple fact of it. But I was looking at all of these kind of reasons why it could be and what could I do? And did I need to see someone?

I was like, no, it's just my body. And I'm not the only one with it. But I really felt like I was. I really felt very lonely in that body. So I knew that I wasn't going to be the only one who felt like that. So that's always what I'm trying to do. Whenever I post some utterly ridiculous video of me dancing around like a dickhead in my pants, that's always the thought that's in my brain is if this makes even one person feel less crap and alone in their body, then I really don't care about anyone who doesn't like what I'm doing I just I just want to lift those people up because I know how lonely it can be

to look at a body and go wow it's broken it's used up it's grim it's all of these things that we don't see so they should be hidden because if we're not seeing them obviously that means that we shouldn't be seeing them do you know what I mean because we see people all the time in their bikini and underwear and all of that but we don't call it gross because they have the bodies that we like and so I wanted to create a space where we're seeing these bodies that you know people people don't like let's say but showing that actually I quite like mine now and you can totally like yours too and I just want to create that place of joy basically did you feel um sort of like pressure or even like stigma when you first started to like show your body in its

just true form did you feel that there was like criticism or did you feel in yourself that there was sort of like pressure to I mean I hate using the term bounce back because who the fuck bounces back we're not on elastic nobody bounces back it's my big thing even if you look like you bounce back because there are people that do they literally give birth and just go and just go back together but internally they haven't and they're not the person they were before so it's just it's just that thing of like even if someone has the appearance and even if someone is back in their genes in a matter of weeks they have not bounced back and it's so harmful even mentally to think it's not even just appearance just stop stop it

it's boiling down our recovery to to our weight isn't it and we all know that weight a doesn't always equal health so I think we're very quick to label people who society deems overweight as unhealthy but how many people that are oh I get it all the time because do you yeah there's just men everywhere just going yeah but you're promoting obesity and it's actually just really unhealthy what you're doing and the way you're living and the shape you are. And I was like, I'm actually like eating really good whole foods. I'm definitely not drinking enough water. So I could be improving there. Sure. I'm drinking way too much Diet Coke and coffee. But I'm also moving a good amount. And I'm also mentally happy. And that's such a massive part of health. And actually, I think when I was that size eight to 10, okay, I was moving all the time, but there was no space in my life for anything else. There was like very little carbs going in my body. And yet I was out from basically 6am until about 9pm in the summer every day, except for the three

hours in the middle of the day where I taught dance and aerobics so I never stopped moving my body so I'm probably healthier now if we take into account the mental and emotional health as well but yet you know health is obviously it's all it's all what you look like to these morons it's funny isn't it because I when I um like lost a lot of weight quickly I can't remember how, like maybe nine or 10 months after birth, but it was because A, I was depressed, B, that I then got COVID. But also even before birth, when I was my smallest, I was so desperately unhappy, but I was also what you'd call skinny fat that I lived off alcohol and crisps. But then I would never, ever get told that I was unhealthy what you'd call skinny fat that I lived off alcohol and crisps but then I

would never ever get told that I was unhealthy because obviously my body looked skinny because you didn't look it of course but actually if you spoke to that person you'd be going oh actually maybe not and I think we just I think with social media everything's so quick to consume that we don't actually consider anything past the image or past the video. We don't actually consider the realities of them making it or the person and what they're doing in the other 23 hours of their day. We're just really only seeing that 10 seconds or that, you know, that minute or whatever it may be. And it's just such a wider picture than that. You know, I think I'm healthier now, maybe not than I've ever been, but I'm definitely in pretty good health overall,

you know, and, but you know, to lots of people, I definitely don't look it, but that's their problem. It's not my problem. I know my health. I don't need to explain it to them. I really liked, um, this is not something I say often where I praise something a Kardashian says especially in the weight loss space but I did really like I don't know if you remember what Kourtney Kardashian said because she got backlash for gaining weight and lo and behold it was because she was actually going through IVF and was trying to be healthy and she said um something along the lines of that basically she's comfortable and happy now and actually when she looks back at like her skinny photos she said something like

I can guarantee that if I was skinny I wasn't happy and I think that's a really important reminder isn't it but also the fact that she was essentially fat shamed for being a healthy weight and for trying to be the best version of herself for IVF. It's a vicious circle really in all of that, because if we had better representation across the board, then we would allow for all bodies. We wouldn't just be allowing for the ones that look like mine, you know, because that isn't the goal. I don't just want people to go, that's a mum bod. Because everyone who is a people to go, that's a mum bod. Because everyone who is a mum and has a body has a mum bod. It doesn't have to be covered in stretch

marks and saggy and this. It can be someone who exercises like all the time. I just want there to be representation that's wider than just this like angelic, curvaceous, but very svelte and toned mother figure. And I just, I just want everyone to see a part of themselves, you know, when they're looking on social media, or when they're looking at ad campaigns, or whatever it may be. Now, I'm in a place of great privilege, and I see myself represented often as like a white, cis, middle-class woman I see myself in a lot of things but as a mother it's not common at all so I can only imagine how much worse that is for more marginalized group who are also mothers so I just I just want to kind of level the playing field so that everyone doesn't feel lonely what would you say to anyone who is sort of struggling with the weight or their

appearance I hate even saying weight because what is weight you know it's like my app my app on my phone the other day said don't forget to log your baby weight and I was like what do you want like it's five fingers well no hopefully more than five fingers ten fingers that is in like why the fuck is an app asking me to log my weight? Like, unless it's come from a doctor, like, what does that mean? And I was like, that's going to trigger people so badly. The app side of stuff, I was like, no, if my midwife says we need to weigh you, by all means, I'll hop on the scales because you're a human being and you want what's best for my child.

So I'll pop on your scales, but you in my phone, I probably won't because I'm not going to trust this weird machine that's telling me I need to do this but yeah it's it's all about going right when is this important for me to do it and when isn't it it's important to weigh yourself for medical need sure it's not important for me to weigh myself while I'm standing in front of the mirror in tears how my body looks I'll probably step away from the scales in that instance that's where you need to be starting to be kinder to yourself it's really annoying because I really wish I had like this one magic tip that just fix everything for everyone but we're all so different and we're all coming from such a different place

of emotion like someone might feel bad about their body because you know it's not working properly like when I was 19 I was diagnosed with polycystic ovaries and I went through like probably a really big let's say like three four month phase of utter like hatred for my body because I knew that one day I wanted to have children and I was like this is going to be a stumbling block for the things that I want for my life I hate it I hate my body it me. It's fucking up. It's not doing its job. I don't like it. It was really, really vivid with me. And I had to do a lot of kind of work to get over that and get to this place now, you know, and I think so when, again, it's the privilege thing, I have a lot of privilege in the sense of my body tends to work pretty well um my hips and legs aren't great

since giving birth but it's not debilitating you know but if there are people out there that are struggling with things like infertility or like a chronic illness like they're going to have a different layer of why they don't like their body rather than someone who's struggling with a weight aspect or someone who's wasn't able to breastfeed when they wanted to. There's just so many different elements. Or in my case, it was fecal incontinence after birth. So actually, I couldn't have given a shit about how much I weighed. I just wanted to not shit when I was out in public.

Of course, that would bring up so many feelings for anyone who was struggling with that. That actually takes it so far away from what you look like. I think representation is such a huge part of it and is being able to kind of see yourself and realize that actually there are people out there living with some level of joy existing in the bodies that you're existing in. So it doesn't feel like it's a million miles away. It doesn't feel like a lost cause and you're not so hopeless. That's a good first step. So I guess that's a good tip to follow, like curate who you follow on social media

because there will be lots of people with bodies like yours or postnatally who don't look like they've not had a baby without giving hate to the people that look like they've not had a baby um without giving hate to the people that look like they haven't had a baby um yeah i guess it's a good reminder isn't it that it's not just one size fits all i can't remember where i read it anyway but i saw that children from as young as six are starting to come home and worry about their bodies girls specifically as young as six and you talk a lot about how we can ensure our children are body confident so what tips would you have not just for our daughters but for actually for

our sons as well because a i think it's so important like for me i want alfie to know that every woman is worthy of respect and you know not just the ones that they fancy like tends to happen but also for him i want you know they're kind of like you know we're in the ones that they fancy, like tends to happen. But also for him, I want, you know, they're kind of like, you know, we're in the era of Love Island. And we know that men, young boys are facing more and more pressure with body image as well. So what tips and what can we do to ensure our children are body confident? Yeah, so I mean, we chose River's name the day after we found out I was pregnant, it was going to be River, whether he was a girl or a boy. And that is how I parent him.

He, I, so far in his life have done nothing differently because he's a boy than if he was a girl. And that's how I will continue to do it until it becomes apparent that I need to take a different course of action. Because if, you know, social aspects of school or whatever it may be. But currently we focus on the same thing. aspects of school or whatever it may be. But currently, we focus on the same thing. So for me, with body confidence and body image, in general, the first step is kind of about creating a conversation with that child. And it can start at any age, like, it might seem ridiculous to be telling your eight month old, I'm going to change your nappy now. But it's just that it's just building that like consent up. Also, my child is a very energetic, jumpy child. He will happily run at me full pelt and just like leap onto my head. And he's, you know, all the time he'll do this. And it's quite

painful. So I'll do, ouch, that hurts. I'm going to pop you down. I didn't like that. You know, it's really important for me to be able to say these are my boundaries and I need you to learn how to respect them because I want you know if he encounters children and they have boundaries I would like him to go I've practiced this I know how to respect other people's personal space and their boundaries in turn I do it to him if he doesn't want you know if I come over and give him a hug and he shoves away, I'll say, oh, sorry, we'll hug again later. You know, it's really important that he understands that element of respect for each other and for other people that he might come into contact with. Another one is autonomy.

So for me, like, it's my job. It's my job to serve him the food and it's his job to eat it i don't um i don't make him finish his dinner i don't say he has to stay at the table till he's finished or anything like that i trust that he understands his hunger um so i try not to you know force anything like that on him and he can tell me when he needs the toilet i might want him to do a wee before we leave the house but if he's telling me i don't need it, you know, I have to pop the trust in him. So when he has the trust in himself to know that he understands his own body, that's what builds confidence, is when you've got that level of trust given from your parents. And then also on top of that,

jiggle dance parties. There's nothing more fun than a jiggle dance party. If he can see me in all my jiggly glory, having a wonderful time dancing around to like jump in the line or something else equally as buoyant he can see that that kind of body can exist and have fun because I'm constantly told by people in my comments or my dms or whatever that you know I'm deeply unhealthy and that I'm glorifying this that and the other but actually I'm just really having a nice time and it's nice to be able to see that and then we can talk about you know how our bodies feel when we move and stuff and even though he doesn't always respond to that it's important that we're still doing it because it's putting that into practice um and then the last thing for me that i do with him is just diversifying. So his books, we have a really, really, really good diverse range of books, some for older children, some for his age group, and they feature different bodies and different characters. And we have conversations outside of just the text on the page. And there's just always another element of learning to do. And the same when we watch TV, I'll often pause it and just like have a chat with him.

Even if he's looking at me, just like, can you just pop it back on one, please put the TV back on. I don't want to talk about it right now. Just popping all of those little things in his brain now, hopefully means that as he gets more vocal and moves further through his life,

he'll have these kinds of conversation starters ready to rock and roll. So it feels ridiculous and it really felt ridiculous before he could talk at all I'd just be talking into midair just this like baby's going yeah okay if you say so but it's it's why I always say it's never too late to start and it's never too early to start and when you do these kind of things with your kids if you don't feel very body confident you can feel like a complete and utter fraud because you're like how on earth am I going to impart this wisdom onto this child when I don't even have it myself but that's the joy of teaching your child things you learn in the process even like growing up I remember adults around me whether it was you know my mom eating cottage cheese only for weeks on end or whether it was whether it was people commenting like oh you're so lucky you can eat what you want when

you get to my age it all stays on your hips and I remember thinking you're utterly terrified I wonder what a I wonder what age it's going to be that it sticks on my hips and like diet dieting what was it the the special goals where you have to eat a bowl of special k every day i'm like no thanks i think i was like 13 eating two bowls of special k i was like also what a genius diet for special k they basically invented their own diet that involved only their when you look back on these things now you go god how did we ever fall for it but like so many people did it's so like insidious really and it really gets stuck in there and you go christ we were all properly hoodwinked for a bit there weren't we yeah and it was it was terrifying but that i think that's another thing with food as

well actually with riv like i'll you know we we kind of we eat like a really balanced meal wherever we can um but even when it's not a balanced meal, even when I've like literally go, it's just fish fingers in the air fryer. It's fish fingers in the air fryer. I always try and make sure that there's like something else on the plate that he, and I kind of explain why. And I'll be like, oh, fish, you know, fish is great because it gives us this. And it's all about what we can take from our foods,

not what our food's taking away from us. For me personally. Yeah. I love that. Explaining what the fish is good, what the food is taking away from us for me personally yeah i love that explaining what the fish is good what the food is good for really good account actually on instagram i think it's called kids eat in color um but color without the u because it's american and again they have really good like infographics on there about how to talk about um like specific foods for your age group so like red foods are good for our heart and that would do like a good

like naught to four year old and then they're good for our heart which in turn does this and that kind of gets the next age group so that's a really like key part for us oh it's really good um so even if you've got a kid that doesn't eat a very varied diet looking at those kinds of things then can kind of you can go well this this food that we really like this is good for this would you like to try another food that is also the same that does that and that was a really good way for me to kind of broaden rivers horizons because they were really broad and then they went like this and now they're getting there again so he's going through all the motions bless him um but yeah just doing all of these things and it sounds like it's so much work it sounds like you

go i've barely got time to like get them dressed in the morning let alone do all of this other nonsense but once you start doing it a you realize that it isn't nonsense and b it just becomes part of the process I was always going to give him breakfast now I'm just doing 30 seconds of speech with it do you know what I mean like it's it's just getting in those little like in those little habits and it's I'm hopeful that it's all going to kind of come good in the end and that it's not going to have been for nothing it's so nice to speak to like parents and specifically mums like you because it does make you feel like we are raising a really good generation of little kiddies I really hope so

that's something I get a lot from my followers as well is that I feel like shit and I am dealing with a lot of issues from the way that I was raised when it comes to things like food and exercise and weight and body image. So even though I don't feel good, my main concern now is not passing that onto these children.

So that gives me a lot of hope that I want to save these mums too, a lot, but it's good to know that their kids are already being saved and that they're already going through the work. So that's a really good positive step, I think. And I hope we see it in years to come that it's had a really good effect. Yeah, me too. I hope so. Melissa, thank you so much for coming on and imparting all your wisdom. Thank you.

And for anyone that doesn't follow her i'm gonna put a link underneath but she is the confident mama on instagram and yeah i'm just so happy to come on and very like timely that we have this chat as i'm about to enter the constant questions about bounce back culture good luck just enjoy it just go do you know what no no no no i'm just gonna enjoy my lovely lovely baby and that lovely boy as well because I mean I have no experience of having a sibling turn into you know a sibling I have four younger sisters myself and I know that each time one of them came along it was just like the biggest joy in my heart and it was just so lovely to expand a family and just

still feel like I was such a part of it, but just go, oh my God, everything's changed. It's so exciting. You know, it's lovely. Yeah, I can't wait. I can't wait to watch him become a sibling for all the challenges. I know that will be there, which obviously I will take you guys with me on.

But yeah, thank you so much. And we'll chat soon. Thanks for having me. Oh, how great is Melissa? I feel like I could have just chatted to her for ages just so bubbly and exudes positivity i feel like we need more melissa's in the world and definitely going to be bringing in a jiggly dance party maybe not in the c-section recovery but i just love that idea of our kids seeing us just enjoying our bodies instead of thinking about the way they look. Even last night,

you know, Alf sat on my legs and he was putting Gruffalo stickers on my tummy. And I was like, I love that for him. This is just a canvas for his stickers. You know, he's not judging his body or my body. And he always like, it's like, mama tummy, mama mama tummy so I think it's a nice reminder isn't it that um we are forced to think so much about our body and its appearance especially in those postnatal days but actually none of it matters and our bodies deserve love and respect especially after the miracle that is like growing an actual human, it still blows my mind. Like when I look at Alf, I'm like, I cannot believe my body made him. Obviously Tommy had like a really, really small part of that, but it was my body that made him and birthed him. And like, even now

thinking like there's like eyelashes in there and little toes and fingers. It's crazy. Like I have two vaginas right now. But anyway, thank you for listening. I hope you found it helpful as well. I have an email this week from Birdie. Oh, I love the name Birdie. She says, hey, Ashley, I'm really feeling down about the way I look at the moment and it's really starting to hold me back because I don't want anyone I know to recognize me when I'm out and about. I'm healthy, but my body's changed so much after my little girl arrived. I feel like if you don't fit into a certain box, then you're seen as ugly. How do I change the way I think about this?

And how can I ensure that this culture isn't put on my daughter either? Looking forward to hearing what you think, Birdie. So firstly, I would say I'm so sorry that you feel like that. I really hope our chat with Melissa has helped but I really recommend um just following like different online accounts um obviously Melissa is a great one the confident mama and the birds papaya if you don't follow her and actually my friend Alex Light who I will get on the podcast wrote a really good book called you are not a before picture so even though she is not a mum herself she speaks a lot about unpicking diet culture and this idea that weight loss equals

health which is just so not the case because I feel like as I quoted Kourtney Kardashian saying a lot of the time people are their skinniest when they're the least unhappy. But I would also say, try not to worry about your appearance based on what other people, what you think other people will think. Because actually a lot of the time people aren't judging others the way they judge themselves. I always think when I go on holiday, I love seeing so many different shapes and sizes and body types at the beach and I'm not like oh look at her thighs or look at her bum I'm like oh I love like even like seeing like dimples and you know all those things I see beauty in so many different shapes and sizes and it reminds me that the way we view ourselves is often way more critical than

we view other people and also know that it's okay for your bodies to change. And what I will say is for all my friends that do look like they, I mean, I hate that even using the term baby weight because it's such a rank expression, like what is baby weight? But they had their own issues as well. And actually they felt pressure like they couldn't show off their bodies because they didn't want to be seen as like irresponsible or not good role models. And they didn't want people to say, oh, it must be nice that you bounced back. But they were all still dealing with the same things around, whether it was incontinence or pelvic floor issues or

feeling out of sorts mentally, you know know and like leaky boobs and all of that stuff that comes with motherhood so i feel like just don't worry but also make sure you're still in the pictures because i feel you look back and even in postnatal recovery when at the time you feel a bit gross whether that's because your body's not working or whether that's because you don't feel comfortable in like a new body shape. I wish that I had more pictures with me in it because they're only little for that. Whatever your level, embrace it. Journey starts when you say so. If you've got five minutes or 50, Peloton Tread has workouts you can work in. Or bring your classes with you for outdoor runs, walks and hikes, led by expert instructors on the Peloton app.

Call yourself a runner. Peloton All Access Membership Separate. Learn more at onepeloton.ca slash running. Learn more at onepeloton.ca slash running. Small amount of time, but also I feel like slightly in awe of my body. And the same way that we look at pregnancy, a bump and it grows. I feel like the way our bodies change postnatally is kind of fascinating as well. So sadly, I don't have magic tips for you, but hopefully this episode helped.

I definitely need to get Alex Light on the podcast. Actually, I'm going to message her and ask because she'd be a brilliant guest. And just be kind to yourself. Remember, we are victims of this crazy diet culture and unrealistic beauty expectations. And even the models, even the faces of these cultures or beauty standards, should I say, are insecure as well. And what does

that tell you? It tells us that it's unrealistic for all of us. So anyway, thank you for listening to Mums the Word, the parenting podcast. If you do want to get in touch, whether it's about something we talked about today or just in general, maybe a topic you want me to cover or a guest you'd love me to have on, get in touch um either on whatsapp you can send a voice message which is free and the number is 07599927537 or you can email me at askmumsthewordpod at gmail.com or of course if you're listening on apple very easy to leave an apple podcast review and i'll be able to see the review and I can read those out as well. So I will be back with another episode, same time, same place next week.