Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Caroline Britton on Getting Back to Yourself

Episode Date: June 26, 2022

This week on Mum's The Word, Ashley is joined by speaker, teacher, coach, mentor and mum of two Caroline Britton! Ashley and Caroline are talking about the importance of communicating with your partner, sharing your discomfort and learning to shift anger, resentment and guilt. Caroline's latest book 'Coming Home To You' is out now in store and online. If you want to ask Ashley a question, get in touch at [e-mail]---A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm going to open today's podcast with quite a big deep question do you feel like motherhood has changed you and if so in what way because I was chatting with you guys on Instagram this week and I realized so last Tuesday I just happened to pop to my local independent coffee shop and there was a mother's meetup going on. And the owner of the shop, who I know quite well, was basically like, oh, you need to come meet everyone. And I just went into panic mode. And it's weird because obviously I'm very confident. I mean, I'm used to with my job just chatting with anyone and people from all walks of life. I've gone solo traveling. And I just realized that I was so shy and I feared people judging me or kind of seeing beyond the facade of who I am online or whatever it might be. So I kind

of like really awkwardly asked a few questions and then made excuses that I had to run away. And it was purely out of fear. And I chatted about it briefly to you guys, not the actual specifics of where I was and what it was, but I was like, has motherhood made me shy or has lockdown made me shy? Or is it a bit of both? But I don't recognize that part of myself. And as somebody who feels quite self-assured and confident, I found myself feeling really insecure and almost in that environment where I was totally out of my comfort zone, second guessing myself or thinking that people will be thinking negatively about me. So I ran away and it was frustrating because I've moved, actually, I think it was about this time last year that we moved house, obviously, to a new area.

And I keep saying to Tommy, like, I need to meet new people and I want to make new friends. And that's not to say I want to be friends with anyone and anyone, because I think, you know, as it gets older, you really just want to hang out with your tribe of people, don't you? But I'm never going to meet anyone if chronic shyness gets in the way. you, but I'm never going to meet anyone if chronic shyness gets in the way. So I thought today we could maybe have a little bit of a group therapy slash coaching session because I have got the most brilliant, brilliant guest. She is a mum of two to Claudia, who is 10 and Harry, who's eight. And she is also a global speaker, a coach, a mentor, and most importantly for me, an expert in helping people connect back to their soul. She's called Caroline Britton. She is described as a magic maker by those who work with her. What a description. She works with sports professionals,

CEOs, entrepreneurs, healers, working professional, parents, people in the public eye. And she speaks a lot about growth and believes that in order to grow, you don't need to be more of anything. So Caroline has her first book coming out mid-June called Coming Home to You, which is a guide to gently nudge you back to yourself, which let's be honest, as mums, we do struggle with identity. So Caroline, firstly, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I'm really, really excited. I can already sense that this is going to be a good healing session. Thank you so much for having me.

I'm so delighted to be here. What do you think, by the way, about what I just said? Is this something that you think is quite common or that you recognize from your own experience of entering motherhood? Or maybe is it just because of lockdown made us all completely socially awkward? I think maybe a bit of everything, but I think what's important to notice, I think now my children are older, eight and 10, I feel like I've got more perspective and I feel like we have these moments in time when we've got children. And I think that you look back and you recognize that it takes different things from you at different points of your motherhood journey. So it's not like it's this like linear line

motherhood and things are different at different times and you have different challenges. Now, for me personally, I experienced exactly the same thing. You asked me at the beginning, did motherhood change me? Absolutely. And I think it's changed me in many positive ways. But honestly, I think at the beginning, it caused me to massively disconnect from who I was. So I was this working professional in London with a good job, a busy social life, traveling. And I had my daughter and my daughter's labor is about four days. It completely like knocked me physically. I ended up having an episiotomy, like all of the like lovely things that come with it. And it was a real, like what is going on? And she came into this world and it was such a gift, you know, those feelings of like complete awe of what you've created. But what was really interesting for me

is certainly the first two or three years of having my children. And I had them very close together, which we can, we can talk about as we move through the conversation, I just lost myself. So all of a sudden, it was all about the identity label as a mum. So it's like all people wanted to talk about. There was this expectation that by being mums, that was the social currency of what bonded you. But of course, there's so many layers to us beyond the mom identity. And then honestly, and I want to be completely open about this. I used to find it so difficult and depleting to be put in social environments with moms that I didn't know. social environments with mums that I didn't know. And to have quite superficial chat. I am somebody who loves depth. I don't really do superficial chat. And all of a sudden, it was about how much

sleep you're getting and what they're eating and weaning. And I remember just feeling honestly, this deep frustration of, can't we talk about something beyond this? And I'm somebody who has been in the fortunate position where I have a lot of very good friends, friends from school, friends from university, friends from work. So I was getting those richness of conversations peppered throughout my life. But day to day, there was this feeling of like, there's got to be more than us just talking about being mums and that for me was what made me shy away from getting in groups of mums and to be honest I still find it in the playground now I really just there's something for me that when we only have conversations defined by being mothers it does something to me that just makes me deflate a little.

I want to know, I love that we're mums, but I want to know, Ashley, who are you beyond being a mum? Yeah, we talk about our kids, but what do you believe in? What excites you? What's going on for you? There's this depth. And I think sometimes when we get disconnected from that depth, the social circle we're in, I struggled there. Do you know what? It's so interesting that you say this because I feel, I know, I imagine as a coach, we're going to talk a little later about limiting beliefs and the belief system we have about ourselves. But I think I went from one extreme to another very, very quickly because I really, I always said my entire life, I never pictured my

life with kids. So I was like, I'm not maternal. I don't like moms. A horrific thing to say, by the way, I cringe now and I've talked about that a lot, but I don't like moms. Moms are boring. I'm a career woman as if you can't be both by the way, but this is all the really like subconscious sexist really opinions that we have because we never say that about dads and also dads don't sit around and feel a need to connect with other dads i know it's very different circumstances but they talk about other things aside from just being dads whereas i've had since becoming a mom even people not wanting to put me for dj gigs anymore because i'm just a mom now so even though i'm as talented and I'm as good at mixing and

probably even better at late nights, not through choice, you kind of get cast aside as a mom. But then, especially when I moved house, I felt like I needed sort of mom friends because my friends who weren't going through sleep deprivation and weren't, and didn't care if I'd, you know, my struggles with changing a nap, you know, whatever those really boring, basic things are. I felt like I didn't have anyone really to connect with that I could talk about all the really boring things, but also I felt like I didn't have anything to add to a conversation of depth when I was in, especially that first year of motherhood, maybe six to 12 months, because I felt like that was my whole life. And as much as I wanted more life, I didn't have it. But then I would go to things like, you know, baby swim, and I'd find myself being sucked

into conversations that I really just, it almost felt like competitive, or it would almost like drive me to feel anxious about things that I wasn't even worrying about and it felt quite I don't know gossipy for the sake of gossipy and so yeah it's finding that balance isn't it so when you say I want to find mum friends I guess it's the people that you would be friends with anyway but also happen to be going through similar experiences of what you're going through. And it's terrifying. I think making friends as an adult is quite a terrifying prospect anyway, because you, especially, I'm speaking very genuinely, but in my 30s, I'm not a people pleaser anymore. And I don't feel the need to have 10,000 friends just so that I feel popular.

I know what I like and I know the people I like and it's trying to find them. It's quite hard, isn't it? It is. And I think that that's the gift that it gives you is you do have these moments of disconnection because it's hard to be connected to how you feel and how you want to live your life when you're having to prioritize somebody who's completely dependent on you. You're not sleeping. You're potentially having a bit of disconnect with your partner, your body. There's a lot of things that are going on. But then actually, I think what motherhood starts giving you after that is a whole other side that you see of yourself. I'd love to hear whether you've experienced that. But really,

this ferocity you find in yourself. And then also this softness and vulnerability, and it sort of cracks you wide open motherhood, doesn't it? It's like your heart completely expands and the love that you feel for your child. And then if you go on to have another child, there's that worry of, well, am I going to love that child as much? And of course you do. And what it reminds you is there's not a finite source and supply of love that you get to give to one person. And I think it just opens you up to greater and greater depths within you. And our children do end up being our greatest teachers

and not just what they're bringing to the table, but you know, what I've learned about being patient or being able to hold things that are very, very difficult when you're worried about your child and then still being able to live your life and hold space for other people. I mean, it takes you on this quite extraordinary journey, doesn't it, motherhood? Yeah, there's definitely nothing like it. And I definitely feel like I'm coming out the other side. Well, I'm well out of the other side and I'm finding a lot more joy in it. But so I have to say, I, throughout lockdown and in my pregnancy, I trained to be a coach myself because I felt like I'd spent so many years kind of looking for

answers. I really wanted to be happy and I felt like I wasn't happy and I was a people pleaser. Anyway, so I just, I looked for answers all around the world for so like for so long that I decided that I became really interested in it. I trained to be a coach and I felt really connected to myself in my pregnancy. I feel like I kind of figured out in my thirties what I liked, what made me tick, you know, whether that was traveling, hanging out with friends, putting on dinner parties and watching Netflix, learning that I'm quite an introvert. So as much as I'm kind of very sociable and outgoing, I need that time on my own to kind of feel recharged and replenished. And then quite quickly, I, you know, had a boyfriend, went through lockdown as we all did, came out with a baby. And as much as I'm a lot happier now, I've done very disconnected to the person that I was or the things that made me happy because obviously I can't just go traveling anymore and I can't just

reheal on my own anymore because time to yourself is, I mean, yes, we can all make time, but it's not the same as knowing that you've got an entire Sunday where you can sit on the sofa and not do very much and then you're back to it on the Monday. So this is why I'm quite interested to speak to you because you're a coach, you're a healer. And I think a lot of mums, or I know a lot of mums kind of feel this sort of disconnect. And it's a word you said before. So what can we do to kind of re-find ourselves when we're in the hustle and the bustle of motherhood? I mean, there's so many things. The first thing I think is to acknowledge that we are entitled to feel what we want to feel.

I think that's one of the biggest problems in the world is that people don't think it's okay to feel, to feel lonely, to feel sad, to feel frustrated, to feel angry. And I think a lot of those emotions come up when you're mothering and you're not sleeping and potentially your partner's out working and your whole life's changed and all of these feelings come up. And this is the first thing that is really, really important for anybody listening is in order to connect to yourself, you have to allow yourself to feel what actually wants to be felt. And I use this analogy of the way that we often treat ourselves is you should be happy. You should be grateful, like how dare you feel bad about it. And we just don't hold space for ourselves to actually communicate what we want to to ourselves. So it's a bit like you sitting with a friend

and saying, you know, I'm struggling a bit. And that friend saying, be quiet, I'm not interested. And yet that's what we do to ourselves. Like every time that voice wants to come up, you know, that bit of us that feels repressed or frustrated or angry or sad wants to come up and have a conversation with us, we block it and put it back in its box. So what I'm seeing is I'm seeing people come to me and they've got all of these things that are going on in their life, this disconnect. But actually, before we even start, I'm asking them, are you allowing yourself to actually express and feel what needs to be felt? And the answer is usually no. So that's the first thing. The next thing that I would say to anybody

listening is, if you don't even know where to begin with what to give yourself, I would look at what you most feel you need from others. So when I have two very small children, I used to say to my husband, like, nobody listens to me. Everybody takes me for granted, you know, when I was having a strop. And now I look back and I'm like, but I wasn't listening to myself and I was taking myself for granted. So that's another excellent place is what are you seeking from others? And is there an opportunity to give that to yourself now? But say, for example, in the first year of motherhood, let's say I felt like this baby is always around me. It's on me to feed him because he wouldn't take a bottle. It's everything's on me to feed him because he wouldn't take a bottle it's

everything's on me i miss my old life that surely there isn't a fix to that because at the end of the day i did know you know babies are dependent on us so how can you listen to yourself or make time for yourself or get sleep when there's like there's kind of no choice? I know that's a very small period of time, but would there have been anything in that period of time that I could have actually done to help myself? So we're not looking to fix, we're looking to feel. So if we were working together, I would say to you, okay, what does that part of you that doesn't feel they can travel, doesn't feel it's got any space, what does it actually want to say?'t feel they can travel, doesn't feel it's got any space, what does it actually want to say? And can we spend a moment just listening to her?

And you could do something like get out a pen and paper and allow that part to write to you saying, I know I love my baby and I know that I'm so blessed, but oh my goodness, this is so hard. And I'm so frustrated and it's so unfair and I'm so exhausted. And just to listen to that part of yourself and turn around and say, I see you, I feel you, I value you, is so huge. I cannot tell you what that does to our energy system, just to feel like we're listening to ourselves. So I would say that for anybody at the beginning is like, if that part of you is feeling all those things, wants to be expressed, let her speak to you, write to you and just tell her, I hear you, I see you, I feel you and I'm holding space for you.

And this isn't going to last forever, but I know it's difficult. Because we often do that with ourselves rather than just letting it feel and process. We're like, well, how do I fix it? How do I fix it? We start by feeling it. Oh, I suppose we diminish it, don't we? I was even chatting with a mum friend who came to stay this weekend. And, you know, she was telling me actually that she goes to therapy and it's really helping her.

And she was like, I know, I know you're going to judge me because, you know, I have a really nice house and two healthy children and a nice husband. And I still, I'm still, I'm not happy. And what's wrong with me? And I say it as well, whenever I try to confide in a friend, for example, even if it is, I miss traveling, I miss DJing. You feel selfish because you're like, I know I've got a healthy child and I know that I should be grateful. And I know that life's really good compared to this this or this or this but why is it because I actually I'm I don't think I've ever heard Tommy make excuses for feeling the way he feels he's just feels it why is it do you think as women we constantly kind of tell ourselves we should be lucky or we've got it better than other people and you know that's how I open my book coming home to you I say you can be immensely grateful for what you have, but still feel disconnected. And it does not serve anybody

to shame or guilt yourself that it's not okay to feel what you want to feel. So in terms of your question about the disparity potentially between us as women feeling that we need to make sure that we've got it all together. I think a massive part of societal expectations, you know, we're supposed to look a certain way, have it all together. We're literally fed images of our innate lack of enoughness, lack of worthiness from a very, very young age. And then of course it permeates into all parts of our subconscious, our conscious mind. And before we know it, the most important thing is to have it all together. And actually,

we are also fed with this dialogue these days of like, you have to be strong and you have to be tough or it means something. No, actually inherently as women and as feminine energy, we are absolutely brilliant at feeling and expressing and being. And why can't we celebrate all of us in that way? And I think that we live in a day and age now where there's people like you doing brilliant work while actually having amazing open conversations about how we actually feel. But there is still this undertone through these patriarchal constructs of, it's all about what you think and not what you feel. It's all about logic and reason and having it together, not chaos, cyclical being, unraveling,

like journeying with all parts of your being. It's like we've got it all wrong. So we're continually suppressing how we feel. And I think the power of us paving the way for our children and the generations to come by saying, well, as a woman, I can be everything. I can be a lion with this great fierceness. I can be strong and capable and anything's possible, but I can also feel deeply and express. And there is a wildness in motherhood that isn't okay because honestly I think that society is scared

when women are in their full power and this is part of it so that's quite a deep response but it's something that I feel is important to put it out there is let's start embracing all parts of us as women and not buy into the fact that it's only okay to bring the masculine traits when this wildness and this kind of ability to feel and open is one of the greatest gifts that we can bring the world. It's funny, isn't it? Because we are kind of taught from such a young age to sort of dismiss femininity as weakness. It's like even, you know, it would be an insult of like crying like a girl or you know you kind of grow up seeing it as a compliment when a guy is like you're not like the other girls or you're like i'm not like the other girls they're crazy and look at me and it's

almost like if you act like more masculine and like i don't care god feelings are girly look at look at how much I don't care. And actually you're right. Why is it that we're taught that? And it's no wonder that therefore, and also I think another thing is this sort of patriarchal vision of motherhood that we've been fed. Because if you look at all the films, like even looking at childbirth, like your waters break, whoopsie, a little gush on the floor. And then you lie down and you push a little bit and the baby comes out. And then it's like all these really like rose tinted visions of what motherhood is. Or if you choose to, if you're child free, it was like that sort of spinster, crazy cat lady. So there's this huge expectation that you become a mom and suddenly life is glorious and rosy.

And obviously then you have all the feelings that everybody feels around identity struggles. And I take so much comfort in knowing that my mother-in-law, who is the most perfect maternal lady, she went through everything that I go through. So it almost made me feel like, wow, it's not just like our generation that are pathetic, or it's not just me because I told myself I wasn't maternal. Like it's normal to not enjoy all parts of motherhood or to find some of it boring or to just feel lost. Like even in the bits you enjoy to feel lost. And do you know what?

I was having a conversation with my, it's my dad's 81st birthday yesterday. And I had the family round and I was talking to my mom about periods and there is a link here there with me. And my mom was saying, periods, they're awful. And I was saying, well, actually, it's really fascinating when you realize as women how it works, how cyclical we are. And we have this four week, usually four week cycle.

And then we have the first week where we're full of ideas and creativity. Then we have the second week where we're our most eloquent and charismatic. We have the third week, you know, the ones that our partners all look forward to where we're like little demons and we're kind of angry and all these things are coming out. And then we have the fourth week where we bleed and we're massively connected and psychic and all of these amazing things happen. and psychic and all of these amazing things happen. Great time to make decisions. But it shows you the cyclical nature of women is our power. Yeah. We have different powerful points at different parts of our cycle, just like the moon, just like the seasons. We are literally a representation of that. So is motherhood. It's exactly the same. We have

different superpowers at different times. And when we go beyond what's expected of us or what we expect from ourselves, we realize like there's great power in the softening and the emotions and the deepening that happens when we have the baby and we're feeling everything that needs to be felt and we hold space for ourselves. There's another cycle that comes where we start getting our independence back or understanding how we're going to communicate with our children as they get older. And all of these things are gifts. So rather than having this expectation that we always have to feel great, what about if we have this understanding of what can I learn about myself and who I am from whatever I'm experiencing at the moment, because each of it has powers and lessons. And that is really magical when you approach it that way.

Welcome to Paranormal Activity with me, Yvette Fielding, a brand new podcast bringing together people's real ghost, extraterrestrial and paranormal stories, as well as getting some inside details from those who study the supernatural. I'll be listening through your paranormal stories every week and try to understand them, as well as chatting about my own encounters with an occasional paranormal investigator too. You can find us wherever you get your podcasts from,

including Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Acast. Just search for Paranormal Activity with Yvette Fielding. One thing I think that we've kind of touched a little bit on and i guess it kind of goes hand in hand with what we're saying about the expectations on mums is i guess like the the different expectations between what it is to be a mom and what it is to be a dad because i think for me personally and for lots of women, it kind of does create this resentment. You know, you can have the perfect relationship,

whatever that means. And then you have a child. And suddenly I remember, you know, I went to see a dermatologist when I had this big horrible rash on my boob and when I was breastfeeding and Tommy picked Alf up at the pram and a woman ran over saying,

oh, so nice to see your hands on dad so lovely what a great dad you are and you know we hear all these things about daddy daycare and babysitting and every time I leave the house it's oh who's looking after the baby whereas you know Tommy's just been in LA for a whole week for work and I was like does anybody ask you who was looking after the baby and he was like no why would they and I was like exactly because it's the presumption that I'm looking after the baby but everybody would me, they wouldn't just presume that the dad is, or if he is, they'd be like, wow, it's great that he does that. So I know in your book, you kind of touch on resentment. And actually, I asked all my listeners to kind of get in touch

with what they found hard. And so many people said resentment. Amy said she is often accused of backseat parenting when her husband has the baby and she's trying to help. So, so, so many people talking about resentment. So what are your thoughts around that from a sort of coaching perspective? Why do we feel resentment and how can we kind of get through it? I mean, we feel resentment because it's inherently unfair, isn't it? I mean, you are both parents together and yet there's some, again, we're coming back to these expectations of the way it gets to be. I do actually feel that that's something that was positive that's come out of lockdown is I'm seeing so many more dads at the school gates. I'm seeing so much

more flexibility from employers, not all of them, but a lot of them in terms of more people working from home. So actually, there's much more balance with the parents being able to share responsibilities, which I'm really, really pleased about. So we feel guilt and resentment because there is the expectation that you are the person who primarily has to have it all together and make sure everything happens. And I think that we've made a lot of great strides in many relationships where there's much more balance. I have great balance with my husband. It really is 50-50. But that's been something that we've had to consciously commit to. And we've certainly had our times as we find our boundaries with each

other where I've had to put up a bit of a fight for it. And it doesn't always make for the most harmonious relationship, but we've got there in the end. So that guilt and resentment is inherently feeling like everybody else's needs can be before your own. So it's the babies and then your husbands, and then potentially you might stick a couple of other people and you're right in the bottom of the pile. And we wonder why there's this part of us that feels like our needs are completely unmet. So this is where with resentment and guilt and anger, I think it's first of all, really important to honor it. So I talk about this in my book as well. There's so many techniques that you can use,

but actually like when you feel really pissed off is actually going into a room, getting a pillow and smack it on the bed and getting out of your getting in the car and like roaring at a song, but actually letting that move through you so it doesn't become resentment and start blowing up all areas of your life. The next thing, and this is really important, is boundaries. So boundaries is a set of expectations that we consciously decide we want to have in place. So we can sometimes default to, so we can sometimes default to it's just quicker for me to do it or that's just the way it is i actually want people to think about what are my needs and what are my non-negotiable boundaries so it could be something like we completely share the household chores or actually when my baby comes off the boob and I'm doing this, that we share

nighttime shifts, or it could be, I absolutely get 15 minutes in the morning and I do this, or it's actually, we have a conversation about how I feel and where I feel there's a disparity between responsibilities. There's many, many ways that you can do it. But before we do that, we actually have to be clear about what we actually need and where the frustration is and what is it we actually are requiring to move past it. And then this is where we have to speak our truth. And women often don't want to do it. We get it all stuck in the throat chakra, like we won't let it come out. And then people don't know. So where is there an opportunity for you to actually speak your truth with the people around you? Ask for help, ask for support, say where it's not fair, but have it in the context to be really practical of what you feel a solution could be. Because what I see often with relationships is we get so, so wound up. And the way we communicate is to almost verbally dump on our partner, like it's not fair.

And then they immediately can become defensive because they feel like you're blaming them. And then all of a sudden you're at this complete impasse and it's just all just gone wrong. Actually, what's so much more powerful is to say, and this is what I've seen work brilliantly with clients, is first of all, when you've decided that you're fed up and you want things to change, give your partner a heads up that you want to have the conversation. I really want to have a conversation about this. Let me know when it's a good time because often we'll do it as soon as they walk in when we've been with the baby all that day. Let's give them a heads up. Then when you've

agreed a time, you sit with them and say, okay, right, we're going to have a conversation about this. This is how I feel and this is what I feel I need. What do you think we can do together on this? And that honestly works miracles in terms of being able to communicate really consciously so that you can start addressing some of the things that are coming up. Well, sometimes it's like really simple, obvious things, isn't it? It's like when you were saying it, because you do build up like, for example, how Tommy's been in LA this week for work. It's work. He didn't have a choice. And also he's now dealing with jet lag, but I'm finding it really hard to put Alfie to bed at the moment

just because he still goes to sleep on me and he's getting bigger and I'm just not comfortable for him. But he won't go in his cot. Whereas if Tommy does it, it takes five minutes, 10 minutes. If I do it, it's an hour and a half. And it's a really stressful environment, especially last week when there was a heat wave and we're both really hot and bothered. So was already like i text tom like you're doing

every single nightshare next week but obviously if i'd have just said we need to we need to have a chat about alphan sleep what can we do and you know whatever that would be it's a really obvious one that would probably solve a lot of problems yeah it would and i think as well what i found hugely helpful it's like these basic things and we think why don't we think of these things is to actually be really practical about what you think would make a difference so for example i'm running a busy business my husband works full-time the kids are in numerous clubs and pickups at various times and we were spending every morning having this conversation of what time do I need to get Claudia, Harry? And he'd be asking me and it's like, why do I have to know and have it all in my head? And then I literally just

got a timetable, wrote Monday to Friday, put the times in there to be picked up, stuck it on the fridge and said, right, it it's there and then we don't have that conversation anymore it's literally on the fridge it's so simple but it's all these things that we can do to just try and limit the frustration of having the same conversations and also I say to Matt as well like can you take this now can you take that that now? And we've, we've sort of found our groove with it, but it hasn't been easy. But those things around how we communicate and boundaries and me speaking my truth about what I need are massive because then he's got the opportunity to be able to step up to them. And I feel like I'm being true to myself. So

I'm hopefully there will be something in that will help one of your listeners. So, and hopefully there will be something in that will help one of your listeners. upside down and inside out. Whereas even if you're lucky enough to get, let's say two weeks paternity leave, then they're back at work. So their life is suddenly quite normal again, but we might have leaky boobs and stitches in our vaginas and all the other things that come with it from a physical and emotional. And what we were saying earlier,

that suddenly you have nothing to talk about. You're not going out and seeing your friends and going for lunches. And it feels very relentless. And I remember having a conversation with Tommy. And by the way, for those of you who haven't listened, I did a podcast episode with him on Alf's first birthday, where we talked about all these sort of emotions and what it was like to be new parents. But I think because when Tommy and I met, I've always been such an alpha female and I've never

felt sort of like a 1950s sort of stereotype relationship. But, you know, I was a career woman. I was very alpha. I never, ever, ever felt like I was a woman in that traditional sense of a relationship. So suddenly when I had a child, I was like, we said it was going to be 50-50. This is not 50-50. And he was like, but what do you want me to do? Do you want me to quit my job? this is not 50 50 and he was like but what do you want me to do do you want me to quit my job he was like because at the end of the day like i've used all my paternity leave and i'm trying my best to help you but then obviously it didn't really help that the euros was on last summer so suddenly i was i was at home and he was off at the football and i was like this is so unfair and you're right

we can eventually we came to practical agreements like okay he can't breastfeed but he can cook therefore he'll do all the cooking or you know whatever it was and it was all really simple stuff but it was just kind of having those conversations and making him even just for him to understand like okay he might not be able to fix it because yes elf does need my boobs and he can't do that but for the understanding do you know what i mean like because i understand i understand why that must be really hard and sometimes that's all you really need is someone to like I understand it's a bit shit that when you go out people are like who's looking after the baby whereas I go out and people are like oh mate just have another one she'll look after him and you know there is that total like

difference. And I love what you said there about not fixating totally on what they can't do, because there is a lot they can't do at the beginning. But what can they actually do? Like there is always some way that we can get support. And I think that we've got to be careful, haven't we, that we don't get into this martyr thing of, I'll just do that, I'll just do that. as a wider context as well, I think systemically, this is something that businesses need to be looking at is, there are some businesses that are forward thinking, but actually, where is there an opportunity to be able to really represent to society the importance of a child having both the mother and father support? So I've got a friend, her husband's a partner in a big law firm. and he took three months off when the kids are three and five so that he could be with them and she could do more in her business. We want to be bringing in these opportunities where fathers can step up. As a society, we should be supporting that and not making it so difficult for us to have balance. And our children are so much richer if they can

have an opportunity, which is not always the reality for everybody, but an opportunity to have exposure to both different kinds of energies from a mother and a father, or certainly a male and female role model. I actually, I meant to have a guest on soon that will be talking about the need for flexible working and for businesses to realize that it's not, childcare is not a female problem. So yeah, I'm really excited about that because it's definitely a conversation that needs to be had. And luckily there are brilliant women out there fighting the fight for us. So one thing I would love for you to expand on is mum guilt. Funny enough, it's not something that I experience. I don't know if it's because I'm an older mum or I'm quite self-assured,

but I guess I'm quite assured that everything I do is right for Alf, even if that means it's sending him to childcare so that I can get my work done. But one of the overwhelming messages I got from people online, so Pip says, I'm feeling guilty asking friends and family for help with babysitting. It's my own child. I need a life of my own. Mom guilt, struggling to love my baby for the first few weeks due to my own complications post-birth. Baby's now 18 months and I feel guilt and general sadness about what I went through. Yeah, it's all guilt, trying to find time for me, but feeling guilty. I know that this, you know,

that sort of feeling of guilt is something that you talk about yourself. So is there any sort of solutions or tips you can offer people that are just constantly feeling mum guilt? There's many layers to this. I think first of all, that we have to trust that whatever experience we had was given to us for a reason. And rather than go back and berate ourselves for how we showed up, simply say I was doing my best and to treat ourselves with compassion. To imagine that it's a friend sitting in front of you and to really be honest about how you would speak to the friend and why does it have to be different when you're speaking to yourself? So things like when you're in this perpetual cycle where you're going to guilt, to say, what's a more loving way I could see this?

What's a more loving approach I could have in this moment? How could I see this differently? How could I see myself differently? So say you're in that loop of, it's not right for me to ask for support, but my goodness, am I craving time? It's like, well, how could I see that differently? Okay, when I get support, I feel more full up. So I'm better to show up as my whole self. Or actually people love to be able to help you when you ask them. There's always ways that we can reframe it. And when we're in that perpetual loop, we sometimes forget that. So can you break that cycle by asking yourself those questions? The next thing is what I loved when you said about,

I don't really have mum guilt because I think there's this like self-assuredness. What it feels like for me is that you in many ways have an implicit trust in you being able to make the right decisions for you and your family. And that's something that we see a lot is that women don't think that they can trust themselves, but you can. You can trust that your way gets to work in the highest interest of your family and yourself. And you get to choose that as a belief, no matter what people are giving you. It's like, I get to know nobody else can tell me about what's right. So that's the next thing. The final thing I'll say, and

there's many things I'd like to, but this is really important. We have to learn to love ourselves with a complete ferocity where we accept and love ourselves through the difficulties. Like, can I accept and love myself as a mother, not just when I've been doing art and homework and being calm, but when I'm like, shout or lose my temper, it's like, is there an opportunity for us to say, do you know what? It's not about me being perfect. It's for me holding space in all the different things that I'm going to have triggered within me being a mother. And if you keep coming and saying, what is the most loving thing I can do in this moment for

myself? It's such a game changer, that question, because in each moment, you'll start looking at things through a different lens. And that's what it's all about to shift away from guilt to self-acceptance. real downward spiral of excuse my language but just dating total assholes and fuck boys and I stopped almost believing that I deserved more because it happened so much and it was putting myself in what advice would I give to my friends right now and um it you're you're so right because you know even in that time that I was single I kind of wish that my my few friends that did have children had just rang me up and said, would you mind babysitting tonight? Or I'm absolutely knackered. Would you come around for two hours and play with my child and let me sleep? And I would have loved that because I actually felt quite left out for

quite a long period of time. And because I didn't understand all the emotions and complexities of what mums were going through, because I just saw the sort of rose tinted happy family pictures I would have loved to somebody to ring me up and be like do you know what sorry to ask like do you or I really really could do with a nap I'm exhausted I can't think straight or I really need to go to the gym or whatever it was and I would have been there and not only that I even though I didn't feel like I particularly like children I love my friends so I would have like been there with bells on and I would have felt so happy that to be like trusted and to be wanted. But yet when you're in that situation,

you don't want to bother people. And I had my friend Lila around on Thursday and she doesn't have children. And I was kept being like, I'm so sorry. This is probably really boring for you. I'm so sorry. We've just got to do this for Alf. I'm so sorry.

It's probably really boring for you. And she was like, actually, I would be doing nothing at home. It's so nice. And she was like, actually, I would be doing nothing at home. It's so nice. And she was like, I love the hustle and bustle. And it's so nice to see Alf and to see this. And I was like, oh, yeah, like I would have been the same.

I need to get out of my head that it's all this like boring, negative thing. And actually, like she said, like she would, she felt like she loved getting to be a part of that for the day. And I love that. I think that's how do we break the cycle? We start asking ourselves different questions. So how can I view this differently? How could I choose to see this through a lens of more love for myself? What would I do now if I believe that I always made the right decisions about how I parent? Those are really powerful questions that people can have and ask themselves in the moment.

And if you want to break the cycle, we need to break the loop in our mind by asking ourselves powerful questions like that. And it shifts things hugely. One question I actually got anonymously, but I think is a really good one. And it allows us to talk a bit about beliefs. good one. And it allows us to talk a bit about beliefs. This mum said she's struggling with her identity, but more so thinking that others are looking down on her because she's a stay-at-home mum. And funnily enough, my mum friend who I made in my area, who I got on so well with, she's a stay-at-home mum and she was a career woman and a maths graduate. And she said she feels like she can tell that her friends are sort of like,

oh, so that's kind of all you do now. What would you say to her, especially when it's her thinking others are looking down on her? Yeah. So I would suspect that her fear of judgment from others is actually her judgment of herself. So we always start with ourselves. So is there a part of you that judges yourself for staying at home? Is there a part of you that's making assumptions about what that means about you? Is there a part of you that is like berating yourself for having made that decision? We heal and come to a place of peace with how we have that relationship with ourselves. Because the way that we perceive other people to be is just a mirror of what's going on for us so you know we've all been in that situation where

you might have like Tommy's your partner isn't he yeah yeah so Tommy might come home and he might be really bothered about something that's happened or something that somebody said or you've got a friend who's like can you believe this happened or Or they said that. And you think, I actually don't think it sounds that bad. But it's because it's triggered something in them that they innately believe to be true. It's the same with mothering is like, this is an opportunity when something comes up like, ouch, or they looked at me that way, or they made that comment. It's like, but what is going on within me that is being triggered by that? Because if I didn't believe there was any truth in it, I wouldn't be bothered. So it's an opportunity

to come back to self. Where am I judging myself? What are my views of this? And where can I make peace and be at ease with my decision? And you will start noticing that you're not triggered by those things that are going on with other people you won't feel the need to to fix it or prove because there's an innate comfort with who you are and the decisions you've chosen to make yeah it's that people pleasing element as well i suppose isn't it like i used to really if somebody had an opinion of me or a judgment of me that i didn't feel like was true, I would really get like so defensive and be trying to like show people, but I'm not, that's not who I am. And, you know, whether it would be like, you're selfish as an example. And I was like, I'm not,

I've done this and I do this and I do this. And now I'm a bit like, okay, that's okay if they think that because actually I know I'm not and that's enough. But it is hard, isn't it? Especially when someone gets you right in the trigger. It is. And it is. And I think that, you know, this is not about being perfect, but I really think there's always an opportunity. And it's to just say, where is it showing there's potentially a part of me

that needs to be healed? And there's a brilliant exercise that you can do is you can ask yourself those four why's. So why am I bothered that they made that comment? Because who do they think they are? They're looking down on me. Why am I bothered they're looking down on me? Because they think they're better because they're working and I'm not. Why does it bother me that they're working and I'm not? And then usually about your fourth why, get to the thing that sits beneath it. Then you go in there and you say, right, what do I need to look at? And magic happens. I just have so much respect for stay-at-home moms. I think people that do it are amazing

because I feel like I don't have the patience for it, which is also fine. But yeah, I can't imagine ever, ever looking down at a stay-at-home mom. I'm just like, you know, like my friend, I'm like, you're amazing. Like the patience that you have. And I mean, I feel like we really should be able to put motherhood on a CV because the less, like the multitasking skills, I mean, more so than any other job, we do a lot, don't we? Like time management, multitasking, patience patience coming up with like fun activities on the spot like it it's more than any any job and i've done a lot of very random jobs you know

if you can think it i've probably done it chambermaiding lifeguarding like there's been a lot of jobs and this one has definitely been the most diverse and the most challenging. Yeah. I mean, it is incredible what we accomplish, like how efficient we are. I mean, honestly, the test of patience, even to sit down and do homeschooling with my eight-year-old son or homework is like, you know, I'd much prefer to take a kind of massive business meeting or presenting to a board of CEOs any other day. Caroline, before I let you go, and this is completely off topic to your work that you do, but as a mom of two, obviously Claudia's 10, Harry's eight, so there's a two-year age gap. Alf is now 18 months. And I keep asking people this on the podcast, but it's because I'm genuinely in two minds about,

and by the way, I don't know if I can have another one. So I might never have another one and that will be fine. But if it is down to choice, I just can't figure out if it's the best thing in the world or the worst thing in the world to even contemplate having another one. And Tommy's kind of in the same mind, but obviously because I'm older and we don't know about what my fertility is and I suffered a loss recently, but I just can't, I'm speaking to everyone. I'm like, would you recommend having another one?

Speaking completely honestly and authentically. And of course it doesn't mean you would, I understand that if I were to have another one, I would love them with as much ferocity as Alf, but will I put myself right back in that situation of all the really hard parts of newborn? Yeah, I think it's a great question. And obviously it's such an individual choice that only you and you will know on a gut feel. And I think you've got great instincts so you can go there. What I would say to you is now I'm through it. I absolutely love having two children who, well, mine were close together, like 20 months apart

because of the relationship they have, the dynamic of having that kind of four unit and it works really well. But honestly, at the beginning, I found it really hard because for me, the hardest part, and it is so short lived, it doesn't feel like it when you're in it, was when I had like a baby that I was breastfeeding and then another toddler was running around trying to do mental things. and you're constantly like waking up with a baby or waking up with your toddler. I found it hard. That's when I started. And then I was back with a corporate job as well. That's when I started experiencing a lot of anxiety and panic attacks and it felt a lot. So that was the hard bit. Being totally honest is I felt that it really took everything from me and it was full on and also financially hard because of childcare. But when I got through that, all of a sudden,

I felt around the age of like, when Claudia was at school and Harry went into preschool, three and five, like then I just started feeling like I had more time and I felt like I had more physical space around me. And honestly, from there, it's got progressively like more and more amazing having two. So that's my very honest opinion of the negative and the positive side of it. Thank you. It's just so hard to know. I feel like my gut, my head and my heart, I don't know which is which. And normally I feel like I know what I want. And with this, I would love to hear from any of you guys,

like maybe you were a solo child or maybe you're raising one child or maybe you're raising multiple children. Like, please let me know, honestly. I mean, I know that if somebody says, I recommend it, I'll be like, I know it's not as simple as me being like, they recommend it. I'm in.

But I just think it's such a nice conversation to have because I never realized. I always thought like, oh, well, once you've had one, what's the difference? But it is difference. And I think because I lost so much of myself and I'm kind of getting back there that is it gonna flip my world upside down and spin me inside out all over again or will I be like this is such a great thing I do think the second time I do remember thinking that you kind of you know what you're doing a bit more and you don't I felt everyone will be different but I felt like it I knew that everything was a phase so you know when they're not sleeping I'm like yeah but I know you get through that and then when I was up all the

time you're like I know I get through that and then when you do the weaning you're like I know I'll get through it so it definitely is different I felt the second time around because there's an innate confidence that it passed everything is a first at the moment so that takes a lot out of you yeah that's a really good point and I I suppose it's knowing that, yeah, like you said, it comes to an end and also it might not be the be all and end all. I feel like for me personally, my first, I was like, I will do it this way.

I need to do it this way because this is the right way. Whereas now I'm just a bit more chilled. I'm like, because you realize that actually, for example, you're not going to be talking about it in two years, three years. So all the things that feel really big at the time, whether that's breastfeeding or co-sleeping or whatever it is, it all ends. So then it's almost like just a distant memory. So maybe I won't be quite so caught up in it all because maybe also this is why I'm the neglected second child,

because my mom was probably by me. it just doesn't matter put her over there um oh thank you so much i'm i'm gonna keep asking guests this i think with them they have more than one because i i just love it please please guys get in touch let me know how you came to the decision and all your like honest thoughts and feelings around it because i i just don't know how i just don't know how to trust my gut on this. Caroline, I know that we've been chatting for so long. So I think we've got some really good stuff though. So talking about the hard stuff, so saying how we feel and thinking about if it triggers us, the why's, boundaries and what are they, how we assert them and how we can fix resentment.

So chatting to our partners, what else did we talk about? There's so much. Hopefully, I feel like, I mean, I feel like I've had therapy. I'm still not sure how to tackle my shyness. How, yeah, how can, let's end on that. How can I tackle, how can I tackle my shyness from a coaching perspective? Let me just feel into you. I'm going to do a little bit of like magic-y stuff. Let me have a little feeling to the shyness from a coaching perspective? Let me just feel into you. I'm going to do a little bit of like magic-y stuff.

Let me have a little feel into the shyness. I feel for you, if you just lock in that affirmation of I completely love and accept myself as I am, and you just keep reaffirming that to yourself before you go into any situations, I think that's really, really going to help. And I think as well, there is like this intentionality of I walk in that room, I am enough. And I'm really open to be able to have

rich conversations with the people who cross my path. And I'm really open to the fact that I might make the most magical friendship in this place. And rather than this expectation that you have to be a certain way, it's like, I am enough as I am. And I'm just going to trust myself that that's going to attract the right people to me. And I think that will be something that is going to be so, so powerful for you. And it's funny, when we make these declarations and these intentions with ourselves and the universe, you'll be amazed at the people that it brings into your path. So have a little play with that and see what happens. And then you'll have to tell us on your next episode. You'll be like, I've met the most amazing person. And you know,

you will hold that vibration if you lock that in. Oh, I love that. I feel like they're good affirmations I can tell myself as well before I walk into a room or a coffee meeting or whatever it might be that, yeah, I'm enough. That's okay. I like that. Caroline, thank you so, so much for your time. And for anyone that wants to follow Caroline, her Instagram is at Caroline Britain Coaching, and she's got so much good information there. Of course, your book coming out. So it's actually out. Amazingly, it came out just before my dad's birthday, which I felt like was a little universal gift. So it's out. It's on Amazon, Barnes and, it came out just before my dad's birthday, which I felt like was a little universal gift. So it's out. It's on Amazon, Barnes & Noble for people who are not in the UK.

It's all over the usual places and yeah, doing really well. So I'm really happy that's out there helping people. Oh, congratulations. And we'll put all the details below. And hopefully I answered lots of your questions as well around mum guilt and identity and resentment. So thank you all for listening to Mums the Word, the parenting podcast. Make sure you hit subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode. And if you do want to get in touch, obviously you can leave a voice note on WhatsApp. It's completely free.

So the number for that is 075-999-27537. Or you can email in at askmumsthewordpod at gmail.com. And of course, you can leave an Apple review. That's a really easy place to find comments as well. And I'll be back with another episode, same time, same place next week. Thank you so much.