Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Charlotte Jonsie on Owning the Mum Identity

Episode Date: April 24, 2022

Charlotte Jonsie, host of the Mama on a Mission podcast, self help and positive psychology coach joins us this week about the myth of mum guilt, feeling powerless, owning your mum identity and using it as a chance to recreate yourself. We also touch on mood swings, postnatal depression and forgetting to appreciate your own body. TW: Loss / Traumatic LaborGet in touch with us with your questions and suggestions at [e-mail]----------A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Well hello, so it is a weekday afternoon and I can't actually believe I'm saying this but I've actually been, I've just come back from a party. Who knew that motherhood at this age meant having a party in the week and it's actually really opportune that I'm now talking to today's guest because believe me there was a time where I felt like I was never going to get to party full stop, never mind getting to party with wine at midday on a Tuesday. So I really feel like I've come quite far in not only accepting motherhood, but just embracing motherhood and realizing that it doesn't mean the end of the world. And I'm really, really excited to have a chat with today's guest,

because after falling pregnant four months into her relationship, which is obviously incredibly similar to my own story, she thought that she'd ruined her life after having a baby. She had a traumatic 90-hour labor, so potential trigger warning for anyone listening ahead of childbirth, because I know that we'll be digging into that. She struggled through a very messy start to motherhood with postnatal depression, lost her mind, her identity, confidence, and hated her postpartum body. I know so many of you will be nodding along already. Charlotte's amassed thousands of followers by sharing the real and raw side of motherhood and how she's overcome it all. And since then, she's been shortlisted as a health influencer

featured in the press. And she's making such a difference through viral social campaigns. She is a mama on a mission to imperfectly empower mums postpartum. Her goal is to help 1 million mums improve their mental health, shift their mindset, get body confident and reach their goals without the mum guilt. Promoting messages like taking care of you is taking care of your kids too. I already know how excited you guys are going to be because I'm so excited. She's just so passionate about redefining what it means to be a working mum in the modern world and helping mums start their side hustle, make money online, build a business or pivot careers after kids. It's Charlotte Johnsey. She's a certified positive psychology coach,

a business mentor, and of course, her own podcast host and for go getting a motivated mom's charlotte thank you so much for coming on my podcast i already know that we're just gonna probably really struggle to fit everything in to such a short amount of time and if you've been from a party i'm amazed that you are stringing a sentence together i'd be like we don't get to do it that much. This is the motherhood struggle, isn't it? Like, I feel like I'm in this sort of new wave of motherhood where I'm starting to realise where it's not the end,

it's almost like a new beginning. And I'm starting to get back bits of my old life that I enjoyed and I'm getting to enjoy very rare moments of baby free time. It's nice because I feel like once you get the freedom to get away or to get a bit of independence, that's when you can start to miss them. And I think it's probably like relationships as well. It's only when you can miss someone that you can appreciate them. Yeah, absolutely. Oh God. It's amazing that you're talking about relationships now because it's something that my partner and I are having to navigate personally because we've been so caught up in being parents and actually you know

trying to get that space back but whenever we get that space it's usually with a social event or it's someone's birthday or it's something with other people that we've actually not been doing anything really to support our relationship. And when you're right, when you're with someone on a daily basis, you see them often, you forget to appreciate them for what they are. And you think of them as like they're an amazing dad or an amazing mum but I actually had to request recently is that he appreciated me outside of being a mum because he'd be like oh you're an amazing mummy or you know like those kind of comments and I'm like I'm still a person an individual I want you to see me outside of just being mum what's the name of

your partner Matt Matt and the name of your son is Leo so Matt and Leo so you met Matt and then after four months you got pregnant yeah it was a it was a world win so and against all odds I was pregnant I got pregnant on the pill so I'd been on the pill for 15 years. I never expected to get pregnant. And yeah, found out and I genuinely cried. And that is a trigger warning for anyone listening that has suffered a loss or anything. But it has honestly been the best thing ever.

I took a chance, took a risk, didn't know if it was going to survive. And also I had to make a decision to go into live with him because it was the pandemic and I was living in Essex, he lived in Kent, and I had to make a decision to live with him to nurture this baby. How old is your son now? Yeah, so he's 18 months now. So about 15 months. All our timelines are quite different. So did you live together before finding out you were pregnant or you moved in together just before lockdown? No, so we'd never lived together. So it was literally like we heard that news, the pandemic, and they said you have to choose a household. So I chose to live with him. So this is so funny to me so this is

exactly what happened with Tommy and I that that Boris Johnson did the announcement and I think it was from midnight and Tommy happened to be at my flat which at the time was in southwest London and I actually said you're gonna have to go home and he was like what do you not want me to like live here and I was like Christ no I was like we don't know how long this is going to go on. And he was like, no, exactly. We don't know how long this is going to go on. I joke about it now because I think Tom's default setting is probably being in a relationship, whereas my default setting is being single. So it's trying to navigate just our differences. But yeah, exactly the same as you. We kind of settled in and knuckled down and didn't really know how long it was going to be for and then came out of the other side of the baby. Yeah. And have you guys ever been on a holiday together just as a couple rather than with the

baby? So luckily, yes, because we had this little gap in lockdown around October. So I celebrated my 30 week pregnancy in Cyprus, but my pelvic girdle pain was so bad. At one point we thought I was going to have to go to hospital because the hotel, it was beautiful, but there was quite a lot of steps. And it sounds crazy to think now that I couldn't even manage like one or two steps. And even just to get up to our hotel room, there was like a good 10 steps. And I remember Tommy happened to like push me and we didn't know if I'd make it. But luckily, yes. like a good 10 steps and I remember Tommy happened to like push me and we didn't know if I'd make it but luckily yes and also I will say that you know we had our first baby free weekend a few weekends ago it was it was almost weird because it's almost like getting to know each other again like you

were saying it's like we praise each other all the time in terms of our roles of parenting and obviously we see each other every day but it almost feels like we're strange not strangers again but it feels almost like a first date like even you know intimacy it feels a bit like oh because we're so used to our roles as mom and as dad and all the conversation is like logistics and what we can is your stag do and who are we going to get to look after the baby and it's almost been so long I mean we've had a baby and being pregnant for more time than we were together like in your situation but from that moment you found out you were pregnant what were your first thoughts because obviously it was a total shock I mean you were on the pill so you weren't expecting at all yeah I always said to my friends I'd be the

rich auntie that would shower them with gifts like I never expected myself to be a parent um I was always the career girl and you'll relate to this Ashley as well and I know your story uh I always thought maybe if I have kids it'll be around 35 when I'm secure I've got my house I've got this I've got my house, I've got this, I've got that. But then this is the thing, we always think to ourselves, I'll be happy when I have this, I'll be happy when I have this car, happy when I have this house. Well, actually, it's not about that. It's about enjoying every single day and the moments, the micro moments of joy. And's really important so that's what I can see now but obviously when I first heard I was scared I genuinely was scared fearful wasn't sure if this was the right move but I kind of just embraced it and And like I'm saying, enjoyed every day rather than focusing on the

future and what might happen, actually being grateful for the position that I was in. Of course, I went through my own like mental health struggles at the time. I went from having a completely different life as in career girl, single, really like thriving to meeting this amazing guy to falling pregnant how did you meet by the way I have to ask this because I find it fascinating at a boozy brunch in Shoreditch which it's better than my hinge so I don't know I honestly thought this guy on paper was everything I wouldn't go for he was ex-army he had two children already teenagers he was in Bromley which I was like no I would never go with a Kent guy like I just had these expectations of who I would be with so everything on paper oh and he's a PT and I've been out of

plenty of PTs where no offense to anybody listening to this, but I was like, no, no, no, no. But actually on, yes, on paper, he wasn't my ideal, but everything he stood for, his spirituality, our connection, it was everything I needed. So that's what I just trusted in the timing I trusted in everything that I believed in and you know as a coach that's something I practice on a daily basis is gratitude and focusing on what's going right rather than focusing on what's going wrong and because when we're in that state and we focus on what's going wrong all we do is focus on the negatives and what could be or what might happen and actually that's not fact so really bringing it back to okay this is the situation how can I navigate this how can I move through this how can I navigate these emotions

I've never had to do before and do you know what in hindsight it was an amazing journey even though it was one of the toughest ever in life so talk me through I mean it's so funny now like thinking back because at the time it you know you're really living it and then suddenly it's a distant memory but talk me through like the emotions that and not only the emotions but the physicality that you experienced during your pregnancy especially a pregnancy in lockdown with a new partner oh god where we begin? I feel like there's so many different emotions. One minute, I just remember being like having this intense, blissful happiness. And then the next minute I would feel everything was crumbling. I was just so fearful and also body

changes. Like I could see my stretch marks appearing, I could see everything changing. And I wasn't sure if I was prepared or ready for this. It's quite surreal to have the two really opposite emotions, literally within seconds. I think that's crazy. Like you can go through feeling like everything is amazing. You can do this. I've got this too. Oh my God, I can't do this. I don't know how I'm going to parent. I'm with someone that I haven't been for a very long time. I've taken on, you know, I've moved. I haven't got the support network around me. I was anxious. I was worried. It was really up and down, but it was like a roller coaster, actually. Do you feel like your relationship changed in your pregnancy? I actually feel like we connected on a much deeper level. And that was quite amazing, actually. Yeah, because I feel like that when I think back to my pregnancy. I mean, I feel really lucky in that I didn't get sickness. However, my first trimester, I was very tired and lethargic.

But I just I always feel a bit nostalgic about it because I feel like as the world was crumbling, and we didn't even know if we were all going to live or you know, if our families were going to survive. And it was this sort of really troubling time. and as someone who'd never wanted to be pregnant and of course in some ways there's like I feel very fortunate in that because I have friends um who have gone through or are currently going through um like fertility journeys and struggles but I felt really connected and excited with Tommy and I guess it was that sort of bonding thing as well like Like, you know, like thinking about the future. I personally found my second trimester, I don't think I've

ever felt more beautiful, more strong, more connected to myself, more spiritual, like everything. I felt like the most beautiful that I've ever felt. And I think as well, it comes from that external validation. Like when you're pregnant and in your second trimester your tummy like starts to get really round and I felt I found myself feeling really confident about what I wore um and everybody's like you're glowing oh my gosh your hair looks so thick and then like third trimester for me got more troublesome but I think I also had this sort of um I guess naivety about what it meant to be a mum still because I was like I'm not going to change and this baby's going to live in our lot like he's going to live around us and you know we're going to do all these amazing things which to be fair we have but it's very different and

then it's funny because now when I look back like when I look back and I've got one of my best friends which is very exciting who is pregnant now one of my first close, close friends who's having a baby. And I kind of like not resent the positivity because I definitely have come out of the other side of darkness and I'm so positive now. But I just feel like it's a very, very, very exciting special time. You're like first pregnancy because you don't quite know what's around the corner. Yeah. And I think it is but then I think we should also validate those emotions because it looking back I agree with you and sometimes I'm like why was I so down or just having those really emotional days or why didn't I just make the most of it but I don't have those regrets because and I would say

this to any woman you have to just flow with whatever emotions are coming up because otherwise if we have that conflict inside of our heads all we do is create a battle within ourselves so we're better off just going okay this is what I'm feeling this is I can see this is why I'm feeling this way maybe you've been triggered for a particular reason parenting triggers so many emotions that we have never realized are actually there or we've kind of put down or we've squashed because we're not willing to look at them whereas parenting can actually bring up things that are almost like blind spots for us so I don't know if you've ever heard of the concept of like re-parenting it's actually parenting can be really triggering for us and especially coming from all

different kind of backgrounds and if you've ever been in trauma as well and coming from that then it might bring up emotions that you've never had to face before in order to come to a solution or a resolution of like how to deal with this yeah I mean I suppose you really think about what you weren't happy with in in your childhood whatever it may be and I personally, like being a mom or having a child really makes you think about mortality a lot more. Like I think, oh my goodness, like my gran was once who I am now with, you know, my mom or my dad. And then they once had the excitement that we felt and they obviously wanted to do their best. So like, I mean, no offense to my parents, because I mean, they're amazing. They're like're like almost faultless but obviously as we all do we have our insecurities and our

issues and you know things that in retrospect we would have done differently and you think god how did they get from that stage that we're in now where it's you know you want to do everything right to like how did they fuck it up like essentially like even with the best intentions and so then you think oh I don't want to pass this down and I don't want to do the same to my to my kids and then I guess that's why some people repeat patterns but then some people go from one extreme to the other and like it's definitely made me think about life so much even to the point that I I've just turned 35 which seems absolutely crazy to say and it's like oh my goodness when he's five I'll be 40 when he's 10 I'll be 45 when he's 15 I'll be 50 and it is like suddenly you're thinking so much more about

the future whereas I think beforehand I just didn't really ever really think about the future it was kind of like a distant fantasy or a wish whereas now it's like a solid like wow I can when he is my age I will be however old I'm not good at math so yeah and you just said something there about belief patterns and we do take on like our mums and our our grands and there is this particular way and I guess this comes down to pressure as well is that there has been a way to to parent in the past or like we should be a certain way and this is what where mum guilt comes from a lot of the time it's external pressures it's like what society says that we should behave like as a mum or if we don't do something like what our gran says, it makes us feel bad or guilty for not doing it in their way. But most of the time, if I ever say to mums, like, where does that mum guilt come from?

It always comes from somewhere else. It's never their belief system. Because I was like, do you believe that? And they're usually saying, no, I don't. Well, what's your belief around it then? And they're usually saying, no, I don't. Well, what's your belief around it then? Because that's the one that should be the one that you push forward, that you are aligned to.

So really the mum guilt shouldn't be coming up. It's around you fearing that someone's going to judge you for what you're doing. Do you know what? It's so interesting because for all the struggles and challenges that I found in motherhood, and maybe it is because I became a mum older and I trained to be a coach and I've done my own work but I've never experienced mum guilt like I did um the Jeremy Vine show you know I said I had a baby free weekend and Jeremy said oh not to make you feel guilty but I have um some friends that went away this weekend and they were planning a baby free weekend and it got to like 5 p.m and they realized then they missed their baby so much they went home I don't want to make you feel guilty

and I was like it doesn't make me feel guilty at all like I don't feel like a bad mom like I actually I love the fact that I got to enjoy baby free weekend and I don't I don't feel guilty for it because I know what I put in and I know the love that I give and for everything that I've done I definitely in hindsight would have done a few things differently but it was never because of guilt I don't feel I I know what makes me happy and like working makes me happy and I don't feel guilty if Alf is safe and happy with other people because I'm doing what I have to do and that's what I would love to like encourage everybody to feel like because why should we feel guilty yeah absolutely I I'm the same. I

honestly don't really believe in mum guilt, although I do get work guilt. I don't know if you get this. What do you mean? As in like you feel guilty when you're working? So sometimes I'm like, okay, if I spend too, like if I overspend time, like with my family, then I'm like, oh, I should be doing this or I should be doing that so I get this work guilt that I'm not doing enough in my business or doing enough for other people rather than spending time with my family so it's like this real I don't know I get the work guilt not the I do feel like that and I think there's two things there and the first one is that we are so used to having a to-do list and being able to tick it off and motherhood is that one thing that if you're with your child especially in the age that our sons are at now because they're in that sort of toddler stage if we take our eyes off

like off the prize so to speak for one second they will probably hurt themselves like they need us like we have to be very connected to them. So it's getting used to sitting on a to-do list, but not being productive because we are in this society that praises overworking and overachieving and always being productive. And I think that links to the second thing, which is that a lot of us are hyper anxious and we have to be feeling like we're doing something because we're too scared to sit in the moment and like to deal with the anxiety so a lot of us are overachievers because nothing makes you feel better than like you know ticking something off ticking something off or distracting ourselves so I've had to really like teach myself and set boundaries with work to be like, I can do that in an hour or a day or whatever it might be.

Whereas in the past, I'd be like, yeah, I'll do it yesterday. Yeah, I think it's trying to get the balance, isn't it? And balance is like such a buzzword in parenting. But I don't actually think you can achieve it. I think you're, I always have this analogy of plates smashing on the floor. So if you were to go to the kitchen, pick up like all the different plates, which would be your relationship, motherhood, your work, your business, your career, your friendships, your life admin, like all of the different plates. Now try and spin them all on two hands. You can't, they would end up smashing. Whereas, you know, you can only focus really psychologically on one to three things at the same time. And if you focus on other things,

then you're going to drop the ball on other things. And I think you just have to accept that, as in you can't be everything to everyone all at the same time. And I think this is what mums try to do so much. And then they also try and achieve this perfectionism or this ability to try and juggle all the plates. And actually, it's not possible. I think balance is bullshit. I think mum guilt's bullshit. Although I will say on mum guilt, Ashley,

is that if we're talking about the reason why we get it, yes, there's external factors. But if we think about it internally, actually, it comes from our bond. I think you mentioned this earlier, which when you form relationships, you create a bond with someone. And obviously that's even more like incredible when you have, you know, a child and you do experience psychologically these periods of like intense bliss, like joy, and you just feel this like mutual connection. But when you break that bond, and this can be from literally going to the shops for an hour, it could be going away for the weekend, it could be going, just leaving your baby with your partner for, you know,

a day. And when you break that bond, it actually causes a negative emotion, which actually then creates a threat. So because they're not near you, you're not protecting them. You know, that kind of whole mama bear analogy. Well, then when you break that attachment, you feel all sorts. So you feel the worry, the anxiety, the stress. And this is not to say that just because you don't experience or you don't believe in mum guilt you still do get you may get those feelings but I'm just kind of reassuring mums like listening to this that there is the reason why they feel mum guilt there is a psychological connection to it it is our duty and our job to kind of remind ourselves that you know they're going to be fine they're with someone I always

say like reframe mum guilt reframe how you think about it like they're gonna be spending more quality time with those people they need to experience other relationships they need to um like you're if you're working you're building a future for them so like always looking at the other side of it rather than focusing on your emotions around it yeah definitely I mean since Alf's been going to a child minders his speech and his development has come on leaps and bounds and also like people bring different things to a child you know like everyone's good at different things and um you know Alf getting to hang out with more adults and more children they're all like they're all bringing stuff to his development

that I wouldn't be able to do on my own. So I definitely think it's a good point. But I feel like there's so much to talk about that. We're almost like going, I want to take it back to pregnancy and go back into childbirth. Basically, I'm so keen to like talk about what you do now and everything that you're doing to empower mums. But I feel like to be able to talk about that, we almost have to talk about the birth of you as a mum which

obviously starts with the birth of your son so um what did you do if anything to prepare yourself for birth and how did you feel in the lead up to trial birth? Were you excited about it? Were you nervous about it? I love this question because I honestly thought, Ashley, I would have this serene, meditative, like water birth. And I visualized it and I genuinely thought it was going to happen. And I'm a big believer in manifestation. So for it not to happen and completely go the opposite to what I expected, I didn't have a plan B. I only had a plan A, and that was that. So your plan A was rigid.

It was like, I want water birth. I don't want intervention. This is how I want it. Yeah, I did hypnobirthing as well, as in I did a course of hypnobirthing it and I just had this vision I didn't have anybody else saying to me I couldn't have it or the midwife saying to me that's you know maybe consider if this was to happen then you know we might have to consider a c-section or there was none of that knowledge and I think that's a real gap I think they need to be a little bit more honest if if I'm honest there just needs to be more communication

with okay this is your preferred option but this could also happen and I just want to make you aware so that it's not a major surprise because when you're going through it, like I didn't have enough information about an induction. Like nobody shared that with me. And I didn't do the research myself because I just assumed that the midwives would share everything I need to know. And this is no discredit to any midwives because they do an awesome job. But I just think with the system, because they're so busy, I think, and as well, I don't know if this is a pandemic thing. I think there needs to be like, okay, this is your option A. What would be your option B and C? Just so you've got a different route or different understanding to what could happen.

to what could happen. Welcome to Paranormal Activity with me, Yvette Fielding, a brand new podcast bringing together people's real ghost, extraterrestrial and paranormal stories, as well as getting some inside details from those who study the supernatural. I'll be listening through your paranormal stories every week and try to understand them, as well as chatting about my own encounters with an occasional paranormal investigator too.

You can find us wherever you get your podcasts from, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Acast. Just search for Paranormal Activity with Yvette Fielding. Just search for Paranormal Activity with Yvette Fielding. that I've never done that's like me saying I my I always compare it to solo traveling because that's what I did before childbirth and it's the most like stepping into the unknown thing that I can compare it to but that's like for me personally saying right I've planned my route I've planned my route and this is what I'm going to do I've never been there I've never ever been there but I've spoken to a few people who have been there and I'm really set on this route whereas actually I remember being like I'm really open like I didn't have

any particular preferred method with drugs without drugs c-section adrenal I think for me the scary part was when I started to request pain relief and it didn't arrive so because I thought we were always in charge and I think that's for me where we need to rip up the system, because it's one thing having a birth plan or not having a birth plan. But we have to listen to moms, and women who are in childbirth, if they say they need pain relief, it doesn't matter what their birth plan says, like listen to them in that moment. Yeah, and I completely agree with you about the in charge, I actually felt quite powerless and that's really interesting you say that because I really thought it was going to be this empowering experience where I thought I would be in control when actually when shit hit the fan when my little boy lost his heartbeat

and we had to you know bring him back and god thank god he. But I didn't feel that I was in control of any of it. And that felt like a scary place to be, even though I had done so much preparation and really thinking that it was going to be this kind of different experience and to not feel that I was communicated to as in this is going to happen now, or this is going to happen now. Of course, when you, when it's an emergency, God, like take, take the control away. Fine. Like you need to do what you've got to do. But the lead up to that from literally when I went into having the birth. So did you plan to have a water birth within like a birthing suite, for example? Yeah. So my waters broke, but only my front waters or my hinds waters.

And I didn't even realize there was two different separate waters to break. So I went in thinking, okay, this is it. And it was like, no, you've got to go home for 24 hours. I was like, what? And in the pandemic, my partner couldn't be there. And that was even the scariest part. So went in by myself. And I did refuse initially. I was like, I need him here. I was contracting.

And yeah, I went through this whole induction process. But initially, they didn't have a bed for me. It was pretty horrific as in the whole experience. They didn't communicate what was happening. They didn't have enough beds. And I don't want to share this to scare anybody because I don't want someone to think, oh my God, this is what could happen. But I think if I knew what the induction process could look like or at least to be told okay your birth plan might not happen then I could have felt like I was a little bit more in control but when you're in that state as well like you you don't know what the best option is or the best route I didn't know that I could actually say to them,

no, I still want the hypnobirthing experience, even though I'm going through this process. But I didn't know that until after. So you went through, when you have an induction, do you have to go into the labour ward? So you go into a completely separate room that's just for induction. So it's not the labour ward, no. Do you know what, I hope one day when this, like, I know the pandemic's technically over, but obviously it's not the labor ward no do you know what i hope one day when this like i know the pandemic's technically over but obviously it's not over i really hope one day women get an apology for the fact that so many people had to experience childbirth alone because i can almost guarantee that if men gave birth we like they would not be doing it on their own i honestly

think it's one of the it i mean essentially childbirth is like whichever way you do think it's one of the, I mean, essentially childbirth is like, whichever way you do it, it's like having an operation without the anesthetic. And I've signed it absolutely, like probably one of the cruelest things that you can go through without the support of your partner. And I don't know what I would have done without Tommy there throughout my childbirth. I actually opened up a message the other day of a woman telling me how her partner didn't get there in time. throughout my childbirth. I actually opened up a message the other day of a woman telling me how her partner didn't get there in time. So when they told, you know, she went into active labor, which can look like hours for some women, it could look like minutes or seconds for other women. So

they told her partner, but by the time he arrived, he was too late. And so she's still going through the trauma of what happened. And this is the lack of accountability that they have taken. I mean, I've been campaigning for this as well, Ashley, since, you know, I've been trying to work with an MP to try and get this changed as well as pregnant and then screwed. And they're not listening they don't listen so I agree there needs to be some sort of apology especially while they were just having their parties you know in parliament while these women were going through you know childbirth alone I mean it just takes the piss really doesn't it it does so you went into a room on your own and you had an induction and then and then did it happen really quickly or what was the what were the next steps from there yeah so had the induction was given a

hormone drip which was horrific and by the way because I wanted to have a drug-free childbirth and for what reason if you don't mind me asking again I just had this idea in my head that I wanted this, you know, natural kind of birth, that it was going to be this beautiful human experience. And I was an idiot, to be honest. So I ended up having, actually, no, I didn't have a drug-free breath. I had pethidine at some point that lasted about two, three hours, but my labor was 18 hours. You know, in all respects, I was drug-free for hours, but my labor was 18 hours. In all respects, I was drug free for especially the pushing part of it. And people always say, wow, you're amazing. Oh my God, you're a hero. And I'm like, no, no, we need to get out of this idea that women are

any braver or any stronger or any better. It is not brave or it doesn't make you better it doesn't give you a better child birth if you go drug free it's like going for a knee operation and being like do you know what I know you've got general anesthetic but I don't want it I want I want to have a natural experience and people would be like you are a nutter but yet with women we are almost expected I saw a male um is something circulating, a male midwife had come out and said that pain in childbirth is to prepare a woman for parenting. And it's like, so what about the men? What about the dads? Do they not have to experience pain for parenting or are they just good dads? And it is this weird sort of idea that is pushed upon us. Like I

understand why you felt like that. And I know so many other women that have felt like that and then you get there and you're like why why I mean don't get me wrong if you can if you can do it and you want to do it great but if you don't want to do it also great you don't get a bravery medal no not at all and in the end you know very quickly after the hormone drip I asked for an epidural straight away I was like like, I need this. So if I was to do this second time round, I'd have all the drugs. I was very naive, but this comes down to knowledge. I didn't have enough knowledge and I didn't have enough people to say to me this, you know, consider this or try this. Or I just think, you know, I read books, but maybe the wrong books. I don't know. I didn't have enough knowledge that I felt that I could make the right decision. But you're right. You don't get a bravery medal. No one

says anything. You just have to recover. So there shouldn't be any of this judgment know having a c-section or having having drugs like just do what's right for you and so um your baby boy was born after 90 hours yeah wow I'm gonna be really honest it was not that blissful moment that you imagine so obviously going through 90 hours of labor was pretty hardcore my body was in bits. So not only did I do the labor side of it, you know, trying to push, I got to eight centimeters, by the way. But the doctor said to get to 10 centimeters could be two hours or two days. And they were worried about my little boy. So, of course, put him first and just surrendered and said, OK, I'm not going to have this childbirth through the vagina.

I'm going to have to childbirth through the vagina. I'm going to have to have this C-section. Had to have him because his heartbeat wasn't, you know, doing too well. So I think the hormone drip had a lot to do with that. So when he finally come out through C-section, I was throwing up in all honesty. So I also was told to wear a mask and I refused I was like absolutely no I'm throwing up like I had this bucket beside me you know like one of those yeah almost like cardboard foam I don't know the ones I remember those and yeah he went on me but I was exhausted like I was so thankful he was here that it was that okay he's here I can relax but I could barely keep my eyes open to the point like I couldn't even really enjoy it and I one of the other things I didn't realize that happens after childbirth is they

are on your boobs almost instantly and I didn't realize that happened again a knowledge thing I didn't know that happened so next minute I thought I was gonna have I was gonna get a rest and dad could look after him but of course not they're on your boobs and you're like oh my god I can't even like stay awake I need to fall asleep so yeah it was not what I imagined I feel like everyone has a really personal and very different timeline in terms of I love the term matricence I say it all the time and I know obviously you're so passionate about that mum identity and finding yourself and losing yourself and that whole whirlwind you go through and you know some people love that newborn phase and some people struggle with it and you know what was your experience newborn phase and some people struggle with it and you

know what was your experience because if I were to put it into a nutshell for me it was like the highest of highs from nought to four months the lowest of lows from six to twelve months and now it's just back to light I feel like Ashley but like a new and improved Ashley you know what's really interesting with this question is that I think you have this expectation postpartum is six weeks and they only talk about in a medical sense that postpartum is this amount of time so you expect by six weeks to be like almost up and running that you're going to be kind of exercising again you're going to get your old life back or like things are going to go back to a bit of normality no that doesn't happen like postpartum is up to I think about two to three years from what I hear from the mums and the clients that I have and identity is a real problem and I hear a lot of mums saying to me, but I miss my old life. I miss that about me,

or I'm not fun anymore. I don't get to be spontaneous and I don't get to do this. And I miss my old life when actually I always go, okay, let's flip it. It's actually an invitation for you to go, right, who do I want to be now? Because you've got this whole wealth of experience that you have right now. And you can take parts of you still like you're saying, Ashley, that you can still take parts of you that you don't initially have in the first probably six months to a year. But go, okay, I'm going to merge who I was before with who I want to be now, go okay I'm going to merge who I was before with who I want to be now focus on what I'm good at what my strengths are and I'm going to move forward into that person who I want to be and that's where we all need to be rather than hanging on to something that was the past

like you wouldn't say like you you're a dating coach like you wouldn't say hang on to him would you if like he if he's left you you'd say move on come on we're here now what who do you want to be the only thing we ever see about the postnatal journey is stepping out with her postnatal weight like look at her weight it's always about the weight and like number, number one, half of us aren't even thinking about weight or we might be thinking about a way in a really negative way, but like, where do we find the time to work out? Think about our eating. I feel like it's survival mode, even if you're in the highs, because where do you find the time, but also it's dangerous. And I, I often see new moms on social media being like, finally back to running. It

took me eight weeks or 10 weeks as if that's like a really long time. And I almost went back to running after eight weeks. And luckily, I'm friends with a pelvic health physio, Marta Kinsella, although she just got married, so I don't know her new name. And she was like, before you go running, please, please, please just come and see me. And she was the one who diagnosed me with prolapse and, you know, all the problems that I had for a good year. And if I'd have gone running, I would have done myself so much damage. And why are we made to feel at six weeks or eight weeks, I think my pathetic GP appointment was where they asked us about condom. And even the question about condom, it feels a little bit like male driven, because I don't think any of us are

thinking about having sex that soon. Or at least if you are like fair play, because you must have had a very swift recovery. But I was like, contraception, I think the fact that my child is attached to my boob or the fact that I've got stitches and I'm absolutely terrified to even like touch my vagina like that is contraception I want to know if I'm fixed yeah it is mad and when you go to that six-week appointment it's like a checklist it's just like a system checklist that they have to tick off you do not feel I don't listen to any mum that has ever said they felt really cared for at that six-week checkup it's a check in the box and also actually you're just talking about your internal problems there are things like people say to mums oh you look great

oh you look amazing but they don't consider what's going on internally just because you look a certain way this goes back to this god you know society expectations again of like bouncing back so what if you look good you might not fucking feel good well even the term look good it's always associated with weight loss isn't it And losing weight can be healthy, but gaining weight can be healthy. And equally, both can be unhealthy. And it's this notion that if you look like you haven't had a baby, then everything must be fine. Yeah, exactly. And it's also kind of another way to weaponize women against each other. Because if you do look like you haven't had a baby, you're kind of considered a negative role model,

because you're, you know, you're unrealistic. But you know, we are all different. And how our bodies look is the tip of the iceberg. Because as we all know, the emotional and physical and psychological thing is something completely different. And I'm laughing so so much because I remember in my pregnancy being like right I am gonna take my six weeks and then I'll be back to my work and obviously everyone always says oh the baby sleeps for like 20 hours a day so I was like 20 hours a day it's gonna be easy I'll just like get working and I thought I'd have launched my coaching platform I still haven't launched my coaching platform in alpha's 15 months like and i feel like it's all just been a whirlwind and i i just want to know like your whole mattress sense losing your identity and finding it and also like finding it in a way that you're now like passionate about helping

other people find it so what what were your timelines like how how long did it take you to feel like you sort of recognize the person you are and and therefore wanted to help other people and empower other moms to find themselves after motherhood? I think because I was in so much pain and despair myself with my postnatal depression, that was up until four months postpartum. Did it kick in from pregnancy, from childbirth? months postpartum did it kick in from pregnancy from childbirth from childbirth and I didn't recognize it initially um until it got to a point where every day I wouldn't get out of my pajamas but I didn't want to care for my little one and I was having very dark thoughts very dark thoughts as in he'd be better off with somebody else um when I was in the shower whenever I got a chance to have a shower I'd be like if I just slipped and smashed my head it'd be I'd be in a much better

place that's how dark and for someone who's very optimistic and very positive and always overcomes adversity that's a very bad place to be. And it's more normal than we actually think as well. And the more I spoke to more moms and the community that I connected with, that's what empowered me initially. So I was like, okay, if I just speak about my experience, then we can all feel connected in this and not feel so alone. So that's what I started doing just naturally. And that is where I started to find myself in this motherhood. I never imagined myself, and you'll probably feel the same as well, Ashley, to actually go into being, what do you call it, a mummy coach or a mummy blogger or an influencer whatever you want to call

it or even having a podcast in parenting I never imagined it but actually it's the most fulfilling because I think as mums we really have such a job to navigate this new world and you are reborn you are birthed as a new person still parts of you but you're having to navigate this whole new world as well as your new relationship because it has an impact on that as well um so the timeline just going back to that is so four months postpartum I started to share I would say six months postpartum my little boy started to get a little bit less. He had silent reflux. He also had a dairy allergy that was navigating. So he basically cried the whole day. He didn't stop. And my partner's ex-army, they use that as a form of torture in the army

as a baby crying. So that's training. So can you imagine what we have to endure and suffer, but nobody helps us? Yeah. So then I would say the penny dropped as in from a year. That's when I felt like, okay, I feel like I'm really enjoying this now and I want to help other mums do it and I want to empower them to realise that they can be whoever they want to be postpartum and to step into whoever they want to be and also there's a real point in motherhood where you decide whether you want to go back to work or not or you want to shift careers or you want to build your own business and I realized that this was a real pain point for mums as in they don't know what to do they're so conflicted because the system again is not set

up for mums so you have to act like you don't have a job but also parent like it doesn't really work if you think about like school times or nursery times it doesn't work or coincide with a normal nine-to-five job does it but you have to make it work so my passion is like redefining what it means to be a working mom in the world modern world like you know what do you want to do what do you want to build because we're actually in a good position as mums now to actually be able to do everything online for anyone listening who is in that situation now like what what are you helping with and how can you support them so there's two parts, really. There's the part of helping them build a business or start a side hustle or make money online. And that is simply, I always say, right, what life do you want to live and build it around that. Don't build it around work because you'll always be miserable.

You have to find something that is going to build around your family life that's going to make you feel fulfilled otherwise you are just going to wake up every day really hating what you're doing so that's part of what I'm I love to help women do is find that what what is it that lights them up what brings them joy and build a business in that or start a side hustle it doesn't need to be a full-time job you want to work three days a week to bring some income in because you want financial independence, go and do it. Don't feel that you are chained to your partner and then going out and working. If that works for them, absolutely fine. But there's a lot of women that feel so disempowered because they are stay-at-home mums but really what they want to be doing is either doing something for themselves to give them back that little bit of independence or bring them some income in so that they can work or you know be the breadwinner

whatever it looks like for you but start with where you want to be first and then build it around that and then build it around that. And then the other side, Ashley, is from a mental health and mindset point of view. So I'm very, very passionate. I'm certified in positive psychology. And this is focusing on what's going right versus focusing on what's going wrong, which is what traditional psychology does. So very, very passionate about helping mums improve their mental health through postpartum what tips would you give people who aren't feeling happy with their journey now so first one is and this goes back to the identity piece what is the version

of you that you want your kids to see so one of the interventions that I use is like, it's called the best possible self intervention. It's a visualization, but you look at yourself through your kid's eyes. What energy do you give off? Like, who do you want them to see? Because at the end of the day, energy is contagious. So if you are stressed, worried, not feeling empowered, if you're overwhelmed, anxious, like whatever those feelings are, you are going to give that out. And then all you're going to do is receive that back. So I truly believe in, you know, what version of you do you want your kids to see? Start there.

And then another thing is positive emotions in positive psychology, which is building in rituals and habits into your daily life. So this is the simple things 10 minutes of quality time by yourself usually doing a meditation. So how do you build that in? That is, okay, I am going to listen to affirmations in the car on my way to work or with the kids, but building those positive statements in from the get go, or like journaling at the end of the day, so you can get your, you know, it's called writing therapy, like, so you get your thoughts out on paper, or is it listening to a meditation when you're going to sleep? So it's reprogramming your subconscious mind like really building in those habits and I call them habit stacking because this would be another one which would be building the behavior on top of each other so because mums don't have a lot of time so this would be like when you're

having your cup of tea like go and put the affirmations on so when you stack the behavior on top of each other, it becomes a ritual and a habit. So then after 21 days of doing this, it becomes second nature and you just do it. And over time, this actually has like a really big compounding effect. So it means that it will increase your overall well-being and happiness. And I know for a fact that this works because one, it's grounded in science. Two, I use it with my clients all the time. And I know for a fact that this works because one, it's grounded in science. Two, I use it with my clients all the time. And just finding those rituals and habits that work for you are those little micro moments of joy that we all need to build in. And then the other one is building a relationship with yourself first, because we put as moms everyone first or before us so actually how do

we build that relationship with yourself like really focusing on that and this comes with knowing your strengths your values what are your beliefs and then most importantly and this is the last one knowing your boundaries because if we don't have boundaries we end up overwhelmed feeling like shit and we let everyone else run the show except for us and all we do is everything for everyone else and then I feel like as well when you're doing everything for everyone else you're probably not doing it with joy either so you become like bitter and resentful for it I know that Tommy and I have definitely had like conversations around because he's like he's a very good communicator and he's just like you need to just tell me what more you

need from me or what can I do because I you're at the moment you're doing it all but I'm here to help but you're not telling me how I can help so yeah I think that's a really good one but you know, kind of like to sum up the podcast, because I mean, I know there was definitely a point and I know that you speak about this as well, where I felt like I'd made the worst mistake, even though the love for my child was always there. And I knew I was a good mom, but I was like, have I just ruined my life? Like this is constant. And I never get to see my friends anymore. And I never get to do this anymore. But I do feel like I have come out the other side or I'm coming out of the other side and I do find

that I have that time and a lot of it was like what you're saying it was like boundaries and knowing what was important to me and like for me it was like okay I need to be able to see my friends so Tom and I were like right how can we can we make this happen? So, you know, he'll make sure that he's home for those nights. And also, just I guess as they get older, like Zanna, who is a podcast guest a few weeks ago, she said to me, like, don't try not to get caught up thinking about how it is now, but think about how it's going to be in five to 10 years. And I love that because it has given me perspective that it's not, you know, even just to think of how much I've grown and changed in the last year and how much independence I've got since then it's only it's only gonna like

get more and more to the point that at one point they'll be so independent we want them to be more dependent again and so it's like trying to like think forward but also enjoy the moments while they're there we've begun the podcast with relationships. And another tip would be every night before you go to bed, and this is positive psychology, is say something that you're grateful for together. And then also say something that you love about yourself and then something that you love about the other person.

And this might sound really cheesy, but it is a really good communication starter because you start to have then like communication about each other. Rather than going to bed, scrolling on your phone or doing something that really isn't going to contribute to your happiness. So a little relationship tip there as well. Oh, I love that. And I feel like, God, if we were all honest about that, we probably all need a lot of help and support around the relationships. about that we probably all need a lot of uh help and support around the relationships i know tommy and i did a podcast after a year but um it is such a huge change isn't it but um charlotte thank you so much for your time i know that we've chatted and chatted away and actually i've only got to the tip of the iceberg on all the things that i wanted to talk to you about so um you'll definitely

have to come back on at some point but thank thank you for coming on Mums in the World, the parenting podcast. And as always, thanks so much to all of you guys for listening and hopefully enjoyed the episode. If you did, of course, don't forget to leave a comment, hit the subscribe button and the follow button so you never miss an episode. If you feel like someone's in the thick of it

and they're going to benefit from the episode I've just done with Charlotte, then please, please, please let them know about it. And don't forget, I haven't done it this time just because we've run out of time, but I always, always read out your comments, whether it's on a voice note, which is on WhatsApp, which the free number is 075-999-27537 or the email, which is askmumsthewordpod at gmail.com. And I'll see you same time, same place next week. to be a runner. Whatever your level, embrace it. Journey starts when you say so. If you've got five minutes or 50, Peloton Tread has workouts you can work in. Or bring your classes with you for

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