Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Connie Simmonds

Episode Date: September 5, 2021

Struggling to sleep as a new mum? Has your little one begun teething yet? The amazing Connie Simmonds joins Ashley to discuss how important sleep is for you and your baby, what works best for Connie and her little one and some brilliant tips to keep your baby as pain free as possible when teething. These methods might not work for all and its important for each mum to find out what works best for them.If you have a question you want Ashley to answer, get in touch at [e-mail]---A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Well, hello, I'm back again. And what a week. I don't even know how this podcast is going to go because I'm not going to lie, guys, I am sleep deprived. I never wanted to be one of those people that complained about sleep. I feel like it's a very boring topic. It's almost like the expected topic, but oh my goodness. I have not slept, I think, since this time last week. So I need you guys. I need your support. I'm also going to have to rope in my friend Connie to find out how she's dealing with sleep now that her daughter Macy is two. But Alf and I, let me just give you a little bit of a background on how we've been doing sleep. So I always said I will never be one of those mums whose baby sleeps in their bed.

However, Alf came along and I don't know if it's because I had like so many stitches that it was like physically incredibly challenging to get him into a bassinet I was like I am using the snoo it's expensive but I was like this is the best thing it's going to be amazing and I just couldn't get him in the snoo and it was so hard because he was feeding every couple of minutes so I started sleeping with him on me. And when I say on me, I mean literally I was sitting up in bed. Very luckily, I've got this big velvet, like, super king bed. So I was, like, leaning up against the velvet headrest, and I just slept with him like that until he was about three months old.

And bear in mind, I did a lot of research on co-sleeping, and there are ways to do it safely, but please don't just take my word for it and think oh if Ashley did it then I can do it because there are obviously lots of risks um to co-sleeping so get that little bit out the way disclaimer um but when he got to three months I then just started to um sleep with him next to me and I think because bear in mind I'm breastfeeding I breastfeed a lot I still breastfeed a lot at seven months it was just so much easier and I don't know if I took the lazy option out um or not I was a little bit lazy but let's be honest there is nothing lazy about parenthood you just get your sleep where you can and I found that's what worked for us and the more I started to look into co-sleeping safe sleeping um I found

this book called Science of Parenting which I absolutely love and to be honest I'm not really like much of a reader with pregnancy and mum books but this book completely gripped me it's a little bit like reading a science book from school uh it basically has the latest brain development research um and it basically like dispels a lot of like the kind of old wives tales that we that we tell people so things like you're creating a rod for your own back or your baby's manipulating you all of these things and it also talks about attachment parenting so just to keep it really brief because let's be honest you don't want to lecture attachment parenting is the idea that you cannot love your baby enough and the more you kind of assure them that you are there and that you are

always there the more they will grow up to be confident secure little children and um i don't want to like just completely reel off the book because let's be honest that'd be a very boring podcast because you'd be like if i wanted an audiobook i'd get the audiobook but uh the idea is that co-sleeping is great and responding to your baby's needs and cries are great because a baby is never crying to manipulate you at worst they want comfort and what is wrong with them having comfort so that's kind of been my um my like journey with Alf and when we moved house um I was like right he'll start sleeping in the cot when we move so that was around six months and we were making progress like I didn't just want to go cold turkey and be like you're on your own now son

good luck so we were putting him down in the car at first it was like literally five minutes and he'd wake up and sometimes you battle you're like oh is it really worth it but we kept doing it we kept letting him know like we're here the moment he would like wake up or cry we'd be there we'd pick him up we'd put him back down or we'd bring him back into our beds and we were really getting somewhere and last week he was doing up to three and a half four hours in his cot which in my book was absolutely amazing if you ask my sister who's got my nephew Jasper that would be a terrible sleep but each to their own and obviously all babies are different and our lifestyles and all of that are very different so this week the dreaded top two teeth seem to be

I don't want to say appearing because I can't see them yet but there are some very swollen gums he's teething and everything has gone out the window and so this is for me one I think benefit to not really having a sleep routine because any baby who is teething is going to be in pain so in my book that means like they need comfort so at first I was trying to keep keep doing the cot thing but um he he basically just isn't sleeping in the cot he'd wake up every couple of minutes and apparently when you lie them flat it obviously makes their gums throb a bit so there's been lots of cuddles there's been lots of co-sleeping but I do not like to use the word regression or him being a bad sleeper or good or bad, because let's be honest, babies aren't good or bad.

They are just tiny, tiny little people who are going through so much developing and growing. And I can't imagine the pain of teething. So whilst that is my, I'd say, slightly holistic approach to it, I also want to complain about the lack of sleep because I feel like we can feel like we're doing the right thing by the babies, but also still be like, oh, my God, will I ever sleep again? Will I ever sleep again? And it's got to a point where I'm literally like napping. I'm in survival mode like any moment I catch a break if Tommy has like a lunch break or whatever if my brother's down at the moment I'd be like I'm just gonna run up to sleep so I feel like all my work my friendships

everything is just being like taken over by the power nap I'm actually nervous to do a podcast where the topic is sleep because I feel like two of the most controversial topics around parenthood seem to be sleeping and feeding the baby. And so I just want to say now that I personally think there is no right or wrong way. Like however you do it is right because you're doing what's best for you and your baby. And what I will say is whilst Alf isn't sleeping and it's very inconvenient for me, he is thriving. Like he is so happy. He's developing, he's growing, he's eating, he's loving his weaning journey. So I know that this sleep isn't impacting him. It's just impacting me, which is also important. So

I also know that people function differently on sleep, because in a past life and hopefully a future life, and semi my present life, I'm a DJ, I am very good at functioning on little sleep, I knew those party years would pay off um but with that in mind I do want to speak to my friend Connie Simmons because I know that she has a very different approach and I know that she has really found a flow with her daughter Macy so before I chat to her I just want to say thank you like you're loving the podcast and I was so nervous to put it out and I was like, is anyone going to listen? But now I'm actually getting questions.

So thank you. Keep all the questions coming in. And if you ever have any questions, if you want to get involved in sleep topic, the email address is askmumsthewordpod at gmail.com. And so this week we've had a question through from Emily. And she says, I'm finding it really hard at the moment juggling work, taking care of my baby boy, as well as everything else. I feel like I have a million spinning plates and never have time to sit

down. Any advice on how to switch off would be great, Ashley I feel like I would like to put that question out to you guys any advice on how to switch off because I feel you and I always say that motherhood to me especially in this like first few months feels like you're running on a treadmill that's going slightly too fast so you're not actually getting anywhere but you're working really hard because I feel like between trying to be the best mum and trying to get my work done I'm always one step behind and then to think about having to be a friend like I've forgotten what half of my friends look like obviously that bit's not true but I miss my friends so much I don't even remember when the last time I spoke to them was

and it's not through lack of care or love but it's that I actually physically feel like I don't have time to do my work be a mum and also be a friend that sounds so pathetic doesn't it but that is the place that I'm in so please if you have any advice or tips on how to switch off, email askmumsthewordpod at gmail.com. But now back to that very exciting topic of sleep and teething. It's time to speak to Connie. So today I'm really excited to talk to my friend but also Mum to Macy author and life coach Connie Simmons. Connie thank you so much for coming and joining me. Thank you so much for having me I'm so excited and I'm so excited to catch up with you. I know me too like so much has changed and Macy's recently celebrated her birthday am I right in thinking that? Yeah yeah she's turned

two in April so she's just a little bit over two now did you just have her party recently or is have I just been in such a whirlwind that you had a party in April and it feels like last week actually I just love how you're just so in like um mum mum life he's not a newborn anymore but that first year of having a baby or your literally mind is just not the same did you pick did you have a party in april it was in april yeah no way i honestly could have thought it was last week it's all gonna snap but you know she's been at a few parties so maybe you're just they're all just mixing into one no i thank you for saying that but this is definitely

my mum brain because it's interesting that you said that first year so now that maces two do you feel like you get out of this newborn bubble or how long did it take you to feel like time and life kind of came back to a new form of normal when she turned one there was definitely a massive milestone there like for me um obviously she turned one that's a milestone for her but for me um I don't know what it was but I kind of just felt like um I could just well actually let's let's be honest here I got a sleep I got a sleep um consultant that's really interesting and that is exactly what I want to talk to you about so I'm really excited a to know more but after getting a sleep consultant what age did you do that and how did it improve or not improve your life I did it aged one I don't know why I didn't do it sooner

um once I got Rebecca on board her name's Rebecca and she gave us this plan, my life changed, like I was Connie again, well Connie again but as a mum and Connie, like I felt like I was getting my independence back, I was getting my spark back because sleep is so important and I just felt like oh my god, like I can be the mum I want to be now because I'm sleeping. And Macy was just so much more enjoyable to be around because she had a routine. She wasn't relying on milk to get her to sleep because what was happening is she was a very small eater. She's very little and often, and she was reliant on milk. Milk was her soother and it required me to bring she required me to bring her the milk so I was waking up every three hours to bring Macy milk so she could get herself back

to sleep um at age one and then because she was drinking so much milk in the night she wasn't eating in the day so like so much change had to happen um and um and so yeah we did that plan and she stopped relying on me she was sleeping through the night till seven o'clock I was sleeping she was eating like honestly I can't even tell you um how much it changed everything and it made being a mum so much more enjoyable and I for the first time I was like I can see myself having another one. Oh my goodness. There's so much I want to dissect here. So let's start from the very beginning. So you gave birth to Macy and what was her sleep like?

I imagine it would have changed a lot. And what was that kind of breaking point that when you got to one, you were like, okay, it's time to call in the troops. Yeah. Well, Macy was never a good sleeper she's still not amazing she's she she's very intelligent so she's very aware of things she's her brain ticks constantly so even now like she sleeps through but she's very much like it's dark let's turn the light on um what's that mummy what's that noise like she's so inquisitive and it's just very like it can I find it more challenging that she's like that but anyway she

um she was five pound 13 when she was born so she was dinky she was so tiny and it was never picked up either so that was a worry because we weren't expecting it and she would feed every hour Ashley an ounce every hour for like the first month um so I would feed her she'd drink winter put her down and then she was ready for more so I literally got no sleep I was a zombie and I definitely feel like I had I was very low which I think everyone knows that can that can happen anyway, with or without a baby, sleep's so important. But looking back, I wonder if I did have the baby blues, but it's really hard to know how you define that because it's like you were saying, it's such a big change anyway, right?

Yeah, and I see I'm like in the midst of baby blues. Like, do I have the baby blues? Do I have the lockdown blues? Like, I don't know what is going on and also I'm just in a whirlwind that I think that Macy celebrated her birthday last week but it was actually about six months ago and that's honestly how I feel that I'm like do I still have friends I don't even know when the last time I spoke to half of them was because I feel like I'm almost in survival mode of like trying to sleep, not sleeping and trying to be the best mum and trying to do my work. So I'm like, I totally feel this. So did her sleep chop and change throughout the first year or was she just always every hour?

No, she wasn't always every hour. The bigger she got, the bigger her tummy got. hour obviously the bigger she got the bigger her tummy got um it got better um but what I did wrong obviously when you're in the midst of it all you you're not doing anything wrong you're just doing what's right in the moment what you think's right in the moment what's going to make them stop crying the quickest but like looking back if I have another child what I won't do is because Macy was bottle fed because long story um I would she was really bad in the car so what happened was the only thing that would soothe her in the car was a bottle and then that then eventually became the only thing that soothed her full stop so I I just would be more aware next time of what I'm using to soothe my child um because it they take it to bedtime and for me like we're both career women but for me like

um my career is so important to me um and I went back to work after three months. Sleep will always be a priority. And I think that for me, I've realised that I have to get what I need in order to be the best mum for Macy. I had to just be really firm, do the sleep training that meant like, you know, being in the room, the sleep training that meant like you know being in the room uh but like letting herself soothe which involved some tears which can be hard but actually like it's them learning a new skill they don't know how else to communicate like they're frustrated and that's why they cry they're not in pain like um you're just teaching them a new skill to self-soothe. And it's not like awful crying. Like you're there, you put your hands on their chest and things like that. And it's not for everyone, but for me, it was essential.

And we've just had to do sleep training again. Now Macy's gone into a big bed. So I would say once we've done the sleep training age one, because I was at the end of my tether by the time she was one, I don't know why I didn't do this sooner but I think I was just caught up on being so tired I couldn't even think properly and I couldn't even like fathom the fact that you can get child care to help you while you work like

I just kept thinking that I had to do it all on my own yeah like I have to do this all on my own I'm her mom I want to work I need to earn money I like ask for help Connie like that's the one thing I would have told myself like in that moment ask for help reach out like there are there are there are there's help there you know it takes a village to to you know face a child so um yeah I I reached out finally and got the help I needed and and when Macy wasn't sleeping recently because she was climbing out of her cot she's got a toddler bed now she was coming out of her bed every like hour into our room mom mom I'll go in mommy daddy's bed no Macy back in your room like every hour it was felt like I had a newborn again, I reached out to Rebecca again. And now Macy's sleeping from half seven to half six. You know, using and do you know what is so interesting,

because I feel like sleep is, for some reason, sleep and feeding babies seem to be the most controversial topics. And you all like I almost found it like awkward to bring up sleep, because I know that it's such a heated topic around people having so many different opinions. And I actually really liked that you did you like went to sleep training, because you felt like it was the last resort. And I would say, whilst there's like holistic sleep training I am at the moment and bear in mind like things can change like I'm like I don't want to sleep train and but I really like being able to have the conversation because I think a lot of the thing I find hard with motherhood is that you can't have differing opinion without it being almost like a sticky subject but I love like listening to you and what

worked for you and also it's almost like reassuring to know that that is an option because you hit the nail on the head by saying you cannot be a good mom or parent if you're not your best the best version of yourself and of course we need to make money. And how do we make money? We work and how can we work when our brains are not functioning? Like, you know, they, they use sleep deprivation as a form of torture. Like, it is a form of torture, but we're almost expected to kind of get on and deal with it in whatever way we see fit because it's such a almost boring topic of conversation isn't it it's like the first thing you say like when you say you're pregnant everyone's like oh enjoy your sleep now and I found that so annoying but it's because the sleep thing is so hard yeah it's such a shock like to go from know, being able to go to bed when you want to wake up when you want to literally like having no control over it whatsoever.

Unless obviously some people have babies that love drinking their milk and sleeping through from quite early on, you know, like Macy just wasn't that baby. So I've just learned to like, right, this is Macy accepting the fact that she's not the greatest sleeper. Also, I don't overthink things too much. Like I'm not really someone that like goes and does loads of research and reads loads of books. I'm just not that person. I'm like, right, I need sleep because I want to make money. I want to be a happy mom. I want to be a patient mom. What can I do? Okay, sleep consultant, speak to her. Do we connect?

Like, do I trust her? She's so soft and lovely. And she's just constantly there to support me. Like, and I just, she's a mother herself. She'd done it because she, for the same reasons as I want to do it, she needed to get her sleep so she could work. She's very career minded. And so I'm like, right, bosh, done.

There's a solution. Let's do it. Like, I'm very much like that. I don't really overthink things. And I just think, well, I don't remember when I was Macy's age, my mum, you know, letting me cry for a couple of minutes and then eventually I'm sleeping I don't I'm that's how I think I don't remember I don't remember being one and my mum being like right she's crying there's nothing wrong with her let

me just leave her to soothe herself for a couple of minutes I don't remember that so I also think like that right Macy's not going to remember the fact that I've left her to cry for a minute, but I'm, you know, that sounds, it does. I'm like, oh, that sounds really awful, but it's not awful because it's been amazing because she now sleeps and she's like. Did you find when she wasn't sleeping that she was like, did you see it? Did you feel it was affecting her mood? Yeah, it was affecting her growth.

It was affecting her appetite yeah it was affecting her growth it was affecting her appetite her moods like you know as soon as she was sleeping she was eating really well her hair like this like her hair was growing like just so many things I could see like she just like she was a tiny little thing and I was like she was actually really like skinny almost and then as soon as she started eating she was like looks like such a healthy child and um just happier and more energy and she was like eating solids like a one-year-old should like she was just living off milk still at the age of one because she wasn't um because she was drinking that through through the night and that's all she wanted and it almost was like she'd gone

backwards I was like this isn't right like yeah so you basically sense there was like a problem with her development through sleep and what made you choose that particular sleep consultant was it somebody that you knew or reached out or did you do lots of research around the different types of sleep training or what was your like thought process behind it um I I looked at a few sleep consultants um I didn't really connect with a lot of them and they just didn't it just you know when you just know like there wasn't I wasn't drawn to I look at the social media pages as well because obviously that's like a portfolio isn't it a website and then this lady Rebecca sleepy time sleep she's called she reached out to me and I thought she's she wasn't like a

big dog so a lot of the big dogs like I was looking at who've got big following books and blah blah blah and she was not new to it but she was had a small small profile um and she reached out to me and I thought you know what I'm interested in having a 15 minute consultation with her um there was just something about the way she spoke to me like her presence charisma like her she was just soft and gentle and kind and I don't know I feel like when you think of sleep training you think of like discipline and like do this do that like I don't know why but in my head it was like oh my god that sounds so scary then when I spoke to Rebecca it just was it's not that at all it wasn't that at all it was it was just there was so much love in it and affection and reassurance for Macy.

And she gave me so much reassurance. Never made me feel bad. Never made me feel guilty. If one night I just couldn't do it and I just gave in, like, it just felt right. Hiya, we're here to tell you about the Loose Lips podcast. We, being me, Georgie Porter. And me, Sharon Carpenter. We're all about honesty and not holding back,

especially when it comes to what's in the news. Plus, we answer your questions and we give you advice whenever it's asked for. Even when it's not asked for. We're all about what you're really thinking and what you really want to know. You can expect to hear some of this. I have to say, come on people, we're getting a little too sensitive here.

And also some of this. She is plugging her entire career in that one moment. That's the Loose Lips podcast out every Tuesday and not forgetting Extra Lippy on Fridays. Find it wherever you found this podcast. We'll see you there. This is a really interesting topic. So when you're saying you just couldn't do it, there was days where you felt like that. As someone that hasn't done it and is genuinely curious and also delighted that you found something that helped Macy and helped you because that's what's most important isn't it it's like everyone's

circumstances and everyone's ability to thrive and survive on little sleep is very different so were there days or did you feel like at times it was almost working against your maternal instinct to let her cry or or is it it it was it was it just like more gentle than that uh it didn't go against my maternal instinct at all I just thought felt that I felt I really believed in the fact that she was learning a new skill and they can't talk and like she wasn't crying in pain like this do you learn your baby's cries and remember she was one here so she was older as well and she could stand up and like she could actually talk a little bit as well so she could understand everything I was saying so maybe that made it easier that the fact of her age rather than like a six month old or three month old baby.

But no, I just I didn't go against my maternal instinct. I genuinely felt that this was the best thing for her and for me. So, you know, it was only like three days of of more crying than usual, but still not an unusual like amount of crying and I sometimes think as well like if your child's constantly waking up for comfort and reassurance is that good for the baby is that is there something to think about there like why does your child constantly need comforting like you can look at it in different ways I kind of I won't make it to be quite independent um and I'm always there to reassure her. She's a very secure child.

A lot of people say it to me, like how she, when we go to like parties or social events, she's very confident and secure. Like she doesn't, she's not clingy or like sort of scared. She's very confident and secure. And they said that I've made her feel that way they she knows that I'm not going anywhere um but she's also independent so I don't know whether that comes from the fact that you know she can self-soothe but she knows that

I'm there so at the moment I leave her bedroom door open and I'm like I'm just going to do the dishwasher I'll come back and check on you in a minute. Just close your eyes and relax. She knows I'm there, but she's also learning to self-soothe and go to sleep on her own. And I like that. That's what, you know, that's what I want for her. So, you know, it just depends how you look at it, really. Yeah, that's so good as well. I'm happy that you found something that worked for you and worked for Macy and made you feel like you again because that's definitely where I'm like oh my gosh am I ever going to feel like myself and moving on from sleep slightly how did you find like the teething process and even after kind of like finding your groove with sleep did you find that when teething occurred it all went out the window and what are your biggest tips for teething because I'm going through the top two

teeth right now and I would love to know how it's impacted sleep and what your best remedies for teething are so teething is like I remember getting proper in the groove of things and like, great, she's sleeping through the night. This is great. I feel like me again. And then bang, a tooth decides to come through the gum. And you're like, no, no, it is like that. It is like that. But let me tell you now, Macy's two now. I think pretty much all her teeth are through. She's got a couple of back ones. She can let me know. I put cowpoll in her milk because she doesn't drink.

She doesn't take medicine. Yeah, for me, it's cowpoll or norepinephrine. Some people believe norepinephrine actually because it's ibuprofen it's an anti-inflammatory um but i never gave that unless i really had to like i would start off with some bonjella or like you know the um the ones that you can rub on the gums and lots of like cold cucumber and um a lot of people cucumber is a great one yeah so soothing on the gums a lot of people freeze the breast milk into the ice pop mold so they have like a breast milk ice lolly yes why haven't i thought about doing that because i even have those ice lollies and i've just never even it's never occurred to me yeah so try that you'll love it did you ever do teething powder because i'm trying to

do that at the moment but it is hard putting powder in a baby's mouth really hard I don't know how people some babies are just so great they let you brush their teeth they let you do all these things Macy would have kept her mouth shut like you wouldn't believe yeah Alf has definitely got his mum's stubbornness if he doesn't open his mouth he will not open his mouth I would go for the ice lollies and then at night so in the day like try and cope without medicine and like do the cucumber and um the breast milk ice lollies just to keep his gums nice and cool but then at night for your sanity I would um give him medicine yeah because I have been doing calpol but um I've not actually done neurofen and it's so weird I think because like my parents are like quite I don't know I think like stereotypically northern

different generation that they literally would never like give us medicine and not because they don't believe in it but it's it's kind of like suck it up it can't be that bad unless your arm is literally hanging off they might give you a paracetamol. So it genuinely like never, ever crosses my mind to take it or give it. And like even, you know, in the past when I've like gone into hospital with like kidney infections, they were like, have you taken paracetamol? And I'm like, oh, no. They're like, why wouldn't you? That would help with temperature.

And I'm like, generally didn't even cross my mind. So now Tom's like, oh, let's give him Calpol. And I'm like, oh, he seems fine. But we have got better doing the Calpol. But yeah, Neurofen is the next one in the days that he's like really struggling. Yeah, try Neurofen instead of Calpol because it's the anti-inflammatory. And Macy was recently poorly and the Neurofen definitely had more of an effect than the cowpoll um she was telling me that her teeth were hurting so I gave her norepinephrine she was pointing at

her back gums as well so the norepinephrine like she was a new child as a cowpoll didn't it wasn't actually as effective so try norepinephrine um and see what happens there but I would just definitely say like when you know they're teething just be kinder to yourself actually like lower your expectations a little bit um maybe move things around because that is yeah I don't have a routine I'm actually I am actually quite holistic in that like I I worry for people that do have like strong routines that when they're teething that they're like, Oh my God, it's all going out the window. Whereas I'm very much like, my mentality is

they're a poor little baby and they're in pain. Like I, I mean, I'm very much on the like comfort side, as I said, like, it's so interesting to hear your perspective. And obviously you're further down the line and I'm really open and like non-judgmental to anyone doing it differently to me and it might be that I get to a certain um like breaking point and I'm like oh my god why didn't I do this sooner exactly what you were saying yeah um yeah I'm I'm I'm almost like oh my little bub I don't want him I don't want him to go through all this pain of teething so I kind of you know last week he was like going down in his cot before we were moving back into co-sleeping and now I'm just like you know what it's not working he's in pain

back in the bed we go yeah tomorrow is a new day and I kind of assess day by day so it's so interesting that you say all of this because I was like you I didn't have a routine I was just like I'm gonna let Macy like tell me and um now I'm like why did I didn't have a routine. I was just like, I'm going to let Macy like tell me. And now I'm like, why did I never have a routine? Like, because baby loves routine too. Like, it's crazy. Obviously, again, this is just like, from my, from my experience. And when I thought I couldn't even, I couldn't even process a routine in my head. That's how much my brain was not functioning. Like I couldn't get my head around the fact that every four hours give them this much and their awake times of this. I couldn't even process that because I was so sleep deprived.

And now I look back and I just think if I just sat down and just like went on the NHS website or whatever and just found out what a four month old baby's wake times were, how much milk they should be drinking and then worked out a routine. I would have been so much more sane. Like I would have been I would have known why is she crying in this moment? Why? Why? Why is that happening then? Oh, okay. It's four o'clock. Actually, she needs a nap. So let me go for a walk with her. I was in such a pickle. And then when I did the sleep routine, sleep consultant, she, she sorted out Macy's day routine. And I was like, Oh my God, Macy's not had a routine until she was one. That is why I've not been coping.

Yeah, that's interesting's interesting see I feel like Alf has kind of naturally put himself into a routine so I know that his like nap times that's great so there is a routine there yeah I guess it's just very loose like I guess yeah as in like if I know we wanted to go for dinner and obviously we can't leave him because he he is a boob man and will refuse a bottle like we have tried every bottle type every every possible thing and he he just won't he started to drink out of a cup um but obviously he wouldn't drink breast milk if I'm around he won't even eat food if it's got breast milk in it because he's like no I want it in the boob or I want it not so um it obviously does mean that

I'm much more tied to him, but I just keep reminding myself it isn't forever. And I mean, you never see a grown person breastfeeding. That's a bit weird. Yeah, it is just temporary and you've just got to kind of go with it, don't you? Yeah, so in my head, I'm like, if we were to be like really strict,

and bear in mind my sister, my nephew is a couple of months younger than Alf. And that's another like beauty of, I think, like supporting people who do it differently. Because my sister is like a full on routine. Her husband's in the army, like they are regimented down to the T and it really works for them. Whereas I feel like routine for me is quite stressful. and it really works for them whereas I feel like routine for me is quite stressful but I guess he is in a certain level of routine because obviously he has his three meals and he has his naps all the time but we're just a bit loose of like if whether he naps in the pram or whether he naps in a cot

or whether he naps like in the carrier it kind of you know it depends on him and where we are yeah no I I totally get that you're a free spirit aren't you so like yeah the thought of like strict routine actually like gives me like severe anxiety like I think I'd feel like really like trapped in that whereas my sister thrives in routine and I guess like you're saying like you needed that routine for for I was gonna say for Connie for you and for Macy and also it sounds like from what you're saying that Macy like it was impacting her development like her lack of sleep yeah no it was definitely in terms of food like eat her appetite it didn't impact like her speech and

stuff like that but it impacted like her growth and um and her and her eating um and I'm such a foodie so I just found it really hard like having a child that didn't enjoy food is she enjoying food more now oh my god yeah I make like so much more now she loves prawn spaghetti she loves like like chicken and veg and loads of fruit like but before she would have only had like and veg and loads of fruit like but before she would have only had like tomato pasta with cheese or beans on toast with cheese or like yeah just plain that must have been also really frustrating for you because you're like known for your cooking and healthy like amazing dishes I've even cooked some of your dishes so we do be like how can a child that will only eat this oh my god it was killing me I was like how

can you not like that it is amazing I made that from scratch I was like would talk to her like this like what is wrong with you like it's so good and it's just she just like it was like well I'm getting milk later so why would I want this so that's why it just we had to yeah that's why things needed to change for us um and also um at first with the sleep training and the routine it was very much like her naps need to be in her cot and I'm like you I felt restricted I can't do I can't go meet a friend who's just had a baby because I've got to be back for this time because she's got to be in her cot so it was hard but then I said to Rebecca look this doesn't suit me like her being in her cot all the time so it was like right we'll just do it for two weeks and once she knows her routine and like the self-soothing is done then it's okay to have

um the naps in the car or in the push chair or the carrier 50% of the time. So then I would look at my week and I'd go, right, okay, so on that day and that day it's going to be in the car, or that day it's going to be in the car because I'm going to go and visit my gran or my friend or I'm going for lunch or it'll be in the pushchair. And on those days I've got to do some work, so I'll make sure her naps are at home.

So there is flexibility in it as well. It's got to suit your life especially if you're a bit like a working mum so that's what I liked about Rebecca is that she's like you know it's it's not always ideal and now Macy has a nap in the middle of the day which is really annoying because it's literally in the middle of the day so you either have to do something really early in the morning or something later on in the afternoon but now she's older Rebecca's like it's absolutely fine for her naps to be in the car or in the push chair doesn't have to always be in her in her bed so things do get easier as they develop and they you can speak to them and

you can talk to them so I don't feel trapped at all actually I feel liberated I know that my child is going to go to bed at half seven and I've got three hours in the evening to myself to catch up on tv to like do my nails like just do my face mask wash my hair blow dry do my tan catch up on some work whereas before I'd be like I don't know what time Macy's going to go to bed tonight she's probably going to wake up six times before midnight. And so I can't paint my nails because they're going to be wet. I'm not going to get in the shower in case she's trying to find me. So I feel liberated by having some sleep, some routine and having that sleep training because I wouldn't have known how to do it on my own.

That's amazing. And I'm listening to you like self-care, what is that? I think that's the really interesting thing that no matter what you choose, there's definitely like huge benefits to other things. Like it's exactly the same with my sister. Like they have the evenings to themselves. And to be fair, we were starting to get into that until teething happened.

So I'm hoping that we'll get back there, but we really cannot wait for the hoping that we'll get back there but oh you will you will you cannot wait for the day that we get our evenings back but I just keep reminding myself it isn't nothing is forever and I'm sure like you said you're looking back kind of broody again thinking that you want to go through it all again yeah which also kind of gives me hope because at the moment and especially a couple of weeks ago I was like what have I done no honestly like because you you're this is the first time you've done actually like you you don't know your baby that's a straight you've given birth to a stranger yeah he's your baby but he's a stranger and you're still getting to know him it's still so early

yeah I know him now but at you at the beginning when I first went home I was literally I remember saying to Tommy like do you just feel like we've brought a stranger home he was like no I really love him and I was like oh right I literally feel like we're just like hello how do you do you live here now no it is a bit like that absolutely I was in survival mode I was like that is my child I have to look after you. I have to do this. This is my duty as a mother. It was very like that. It wasn't like, oh, my newborn love bubble and I just love you and I will do whatever I can for you. I was like, right, Connie, now you have to survive on little sleep. have a little sleep um and blah blah it was very like that like like coping mechanisms and like just very I was very like I'd Ricky would be like look I'll look after I'll look after go and have a nap I'd wake up from the nap in shock like in like oh my god where is she is she okay like you know does she need me like it was very like that so I I'm like I don't know if I had postnatal because

I had such I just like loved her and I was like I don't know if I had postnatal because I had such I just like loved her and I was like almost overwhelming if people were holding her and passing around the room it gave me the worst anxiety because I was like she needs me I'm her mum why is she not in my arms it's been half an hour so I was very much like that at the start and then and then I think I'm hoping that the next baby I'm just going to be that's not going to be there and things are going to be different and you just learn from the first experience yeah and I guess as well like every baby's different like I'm sure there'll be people that have had a second baby being like I've totally got this nailed now and then the other

baby is just like a completely different little thing yeah no what have I done all over again and then you get to the second birthday and you're like maybe I'll have another yeah yeah yeah literally I think that's just the whirlwind of like parenthood right you just you just have to sort of ride the wave and everything's temporary there's you know they're constantly growing and you've got to remember to try and enjoy it as well it is the only thing that you can like love and hate in such equal measures and that like the contradiction of emotions I mean I watch I watch all your stories and I read all your captions and I can relate to pretty much every single one of them um we're so similar in the sense of like feeling that feeling torn between being a mom and being a businesswoman and having our own identity. Like that juggle was really hard for me. And when things like teething or poor sleep, like for me, lack of routines, which was affecting the sleep and that was happening.

I was losing myself even more and hating motherhood even more. myself even more and and hating motherhood even more so um you know I would have to say to myself Connie she's teething you know that this will this will last for a week so for the next week this is you know it is what it is yeah it's almost like a new skill that you have to learn to almost let things sit in your to-do list and not get them done do you find that for me because I would always like to get things I'm such a perfectionist and I'd love to get things ticked off and if even like if an email comes in I'd deal with it straight away and now I've almost learned to still have the same ambition but just like let it wait a few hours until I'm actually able to deal with it yeah

yeah that's it and that's and you know what, I find that a lot of people are really understanding of that as well. But I'm still very conscious that a lot of people who aren't parents still don't get it, they still don't get it to get it it'll just be better for everyone but I feel like that is a whole different I know for another day I know Connie I'm so happy that you came to chat to me especially because teething and sleep I know that's basically all we've talked about but it's such a huge monumental topic in general but also for what I'm going through at the moment and it's actually really nice to have a conversation with someone further down the line but also who has like a slightly different perspective on it to me so it's really nice and hopefully loads of people will be like comforted in what you're saying and um like consider their options that you know they don't have to like suffer with tiredness if it's not the best in them as people and as mothers so um yeah thank you so much I really really appreciate you chatting to me oh you're so welcome thank you

so much for having me um and I'm always here if you ever need to send a voice now or have any questions or any tips I'm always here thank you so much you might regret saying that because you know how you said you know how you said this um yeah thank you Connie and um thanks for listening to Ashley James mum's the word the parenting podcast make sure you hit the subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode and if you're listening on apple podcast then please leave us a review and a five-star rating would help. It helps others to find us, basically. And talking of spreading the news, if you like the podcast, which I really hope you do,

please tell someone else about it so we can hopefully reach more people. And I'll be back next week with another episode, same time, same place.