Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Dealing with Anxiety & Stress - with Karen Hartley

Episode Date: December 18, 2023

What is anxiety and how do we deal with it as parents? Is it possible to perfect the work life balance? And how to survive Christmas in 2023Psychotherapist Karen Hartley joins Grace Victory on this week's episode to speak about how she helps people with anxiety and stress and shares her top tips for any parents who are struggling.Do you have a question for us? Get in touch on our Whatsapp, that's 07599927537.---A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome back to Mum's The Word, the parenting podcast. I'm Grace Victory and I am your host for this week. This week we're talking about anxiety and parenting and this is my life jumbled up because I often get intrusive thoughts around parenting and definitely I feel anxious about keeping my children safe especially outside of the house. So on the podcast today is Karen Hartley. Karen is a psychotherapist who specialises in anxiety and stress, not just for parents but for women and men of all ages and backgrounds. For many of us getting through the year especially with kids can result in burnout. We find ourselves running on empty, just trying to get to the weekend, only to find that offers us little

to no respite. It's a quite frightening statistic that one in four of us during our life will suffer from mental health issues. And since COVID, I'd be surprised if that statistic wasn't even higher. Karen, welcome to the podcast and thank you for joining me. Hi Grace, so I am a psychotherapist, some people might call me a counsellor. I've been doing this about eight years now and what do I do? I guess I help people manage their mental health and their emotions. Essentially I give them a toolkit so that they can navigate life a little bit better and have healthier coping mechanisms and tools for this thing called life you know because life can be life as the youngins say yeah and I feel like a lot of people need that I feel like I need that especially post-COVID and my own trauma and then like approaching Christmas.

I just feel like I'm ungrounded. Have you seen a spike yourself with mental health issues since the pandemic? I guess some people could say there's something called, I guess, kind of long term COVID, isn't there? I think there was so much focus on entering the pandemic, making sure that people get the support and help needed, kind of come out of that. But I feel like there's still a lot of residue off the back of the pandemic. I think even me, myself, my routine has been off kilter since the pandemic and I haven't really got back into a better routine. But I think with a pandemic, it caused people to slow down, forced people to slow down. A lot of time people get distracted can hide behind work social

activities all their everyday life and pandemic just force people to be still actually and sit with what comes up you know because a lot of times people avoid that and I find that very interesting because obviously I was severely unwell with Covid I had to really slow down then my recovery I couldn't go back to life before because I had to learn to walk again and et cetera, et cetera. So it's like for me, it's nearly like three years on now since I was in the ICU. And I feel like the pace has picked up, picked up, and I am not coping very well at all. Like I've forgotten that slowness, life has like gone back to normal ish and now I'm feeling like nervy ungrounded and just I'm not okay but then also is that because I think sometimes

is that also coming from a pressure of as you said life is picked up so actually you know and you know what London's like it's just 10 well it not even 10. I feel like it's 50 miles per hour constantly. And often when I'm working with clients, I'm like, guys, we need to get back to gear one because we're constantly in gear five. Very, very, very true. And also, I guess, parenting and identity. and identity because I mean do you with your clients do you see a tendency of parents especially mothers I think just like forgetting who they are oh yes I think it's very common and I think it's also very normal Grace you know I guess I kind of just touched on the comparison thing and you know identity and I think there's something really big about who you were before you have children and then that essentially changing you know I guess this kind of new norm of where that we've just used in terms of the pandemic and I think there's something about also accepting that

things have changed and I guess the things that you could do before you have children it might kind of be on pause or it's going to look very different to how it was before that but I think there's also something about not comparing because I think we can see people on social media and they might look all glammed up doing the school run or it might seem like they've done all the meal prep and the house is constantly tidying that's not the case for everybody and again that's not that's okay it's actually okay because it might look very different for you so everyone's journey everyone's experience is going to be very different but I think it also comes back to not forgetting who you were before you had children

and how can you start to incorporate that and what does that look like going forward how does a mother and a father just parents how do we learn to live a bit more balanced? Because surely it's unhealthy to just see yourself as a parent. How do we live a more balanced life where actually we feel comfortable putting ourselves first sometimes? Because I massively struggle with this, massively struggle. So a bit more of a balanced life. I guess it's looking at

what's kind of taking some of the demands away because obviously we talk a lot about work and work well depending on the environment where you work that can be quite stressful that can lead to burnout but i think there's something about grace what's your support system look like and what are you like asking for help i say not just you but i see this often with clients that i work with it's really important that you look after yourself because i guess if you're continuing to pour from a i guess an empty teacup then you're not going to have nothing to give you know in terms of parenting in terms of your partner in terms of other family dynamics relationships i think there's something also about hobbies. I think people sometimes forget or negate or take away and don't put the time into having those hobbies.

And it doesn't really have to be something extreme. I think something even simpler is getting out of the house and having a walk. It doesn't have to be a half an hour walk, people. You don't have to do 10,000 steps. It's just five minutes to yourself, you know. And I think a really big thing in terms of mothers fathers parenting something about managing expectations and letting go of perfectionism I think that ties back into what I said earlier in terms of the comparison or other family dynamics and units and what it looks like for them and father might come home from work and you know dinner's made on the table and it just might not be the same for everyone so it's working finding out what works best I guess in your family unit I think as well as mothers and maybe I'm just talking about me here we have a controlling

tendency so like I hate asking my partner to do something because he's not going to do it the way I do it and I do it the best so I'm like I'll honestly do it myself you know what it's so funny. I have this tendency, you know, and I talk to my cousin about this all the time. Gosh, if she hears this podcast, she'll be like, why are you putting my business on blast? But you know, she has her way of doing things

and how she cleans the house and stuff. And I was like, you can't ask for help and then kind of micromanage him on how he does the help, you know? So yeah, I think quite a few of us are guilty and I raise my hand up too but and I think it's again it's kind of letting go of some of that control you know yeah it takes time it does take time thinking about mental health and difficult conversations are you seeing a difference in sort of like the younger generation versus

the older lot because I go on TikTok and the younger people have their shit together they are talking the talk or does it look like they do Grace but does it look like they do but I do think that the younger generation do lean into the conversations around mental health a little bit more. Again, going back to the pandemic, I remember seeing all these adverts about just talk and getting support and help. So in terms of my demographic, I'd say it's between the ages of 25 to 45. But most clients are 25 to 35. That's the predominant age group of the clients that I work with yeah in terms of the older generation again I think about my grandparents and when clients talk about their

parents are like you know they're in this age gap where I guess asking for help talking about your needs and emotions can seem really alien to them and oftentimes when we look at the older generation and we think oh they're just being cantankerous or just angsty, what's wrong with them? When actually it might be anxiety or depression, but they don't know what that is. You know, can't, I guess, haven't got the language. Even when sometimes I work with older clients,

they're like, well, how are you feeling emotionally? And they're like, I don't know. So I think this younger generation are doing a lot of work and I take my hat off to them. I take my hat off to anyone, I guess, that leans into mental health and having these conversations. And I also think that they are paving the way

and making the change in terms of, I guess, some of the work that hasn't been done before. Yeah. I love that. I feel like they give me hope. When I see a young person and they know, and I'm like, yeah, I've got hope. Because with the way the world is at the moment, it's so hard to remain positive. And you just mentioned

there about anxiety. And I feel like a lot of people are anxious. Where does that come from? What is anxiety? And where does it stem from? because I feel like one day I woke up and I was just anxious anxiety I guess I say is overestimating the threat and underestimating the ability to deal with it so yeah I guess that's anxiety we will have I don't know a problem an issue come up and we feel like we can't cope and I guess we underestimate our skills actually a lot of times I agree sometimes I'm really mindful now, especially with the likes of TikTok and so forth, when people will sometimes jump onto the bandwagon of anxiety

when actually it might just be a situation at work. And it's just something that you have to sit with and go through. Because a lot of times we are going through things that, I guess, turbulent times and we feel like we can't manage when actually we've come through it and it felt like hell on earth but we have come through the wave and oftentimes I think it's something about coping because when people come to me and ask about coping I'm like do you want the coping techniques and skills or is it you actually don't want to feel anything that's happening because you do have to feel it yeah again the current

climate you know things like cost of living work pressures depending on where you work things that you do anxiety is on the rise and maybe it's a case of anxiety has already been there but again we didn't have the language we didn't know what it looked like or felt like and the more that people talk about it's like okay actually i recognize this within myself i think it's also important to recognize that having anxiety isn't a bad thing actually again it's just being able to manage it and being able to sit with it i guess if it's coming to a point of it's becoming really like um you're struggling yeah thank you grace yeah if it's getting to a point of it's hindering life and yeah you can't sleep and it's affecting relationships and work and you know the inter

burnout and depression then okay then that's a time when you might have to seek additional support yeah i definitely feel like there's a lot of us in society who want to bypass feelings and like need to over analyze and intellectualize what we feel when actually sometimes just sitting with it and not having to identify it just like feeling in your body is all you need to do like sometimes you can't even articulate what you feel my friend lita was saying that um sometimes you just gotta dance it out just start i like that move it out move it through your body because sometimes you just don't know what it is. You wake up and you're like, oh, life is shit today.

That's okay. I like that, Grace. I like that dance it out because I often have, again, some clients are like, I just want a quick fix. I'm like, it doesn't work like that. As you said, you have to dance it out. You have to go through the wave and sit with it. And, again, I think that's what the pandemic

highlighted people as i said were forced to be still and deal with i guess the thoughts that came up the uneasiness maybe the feelings of overwhelming and as you said a lot of people will maybe go to tiktok and we've got all these phrases me and my friend talk about those that have took the red pill and those that haven't those that are more self-aware those that haven't and not everything as you said needs to be intellectualized or you know all those things sometimes you just have to sit with the feelings and as i said sometimes things aren't going well and that is okay you know sometimes you might be unhappy and again it's okay i think sometimes social media and society will give this false illusion that you know things are always going to be great people want soft life i don't know if that's realistic

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And it's Christmas very soon and I feel like the pressure to be happy and mothers to create the magic of Christmas which oh my god like wow is a lot and I feel on edge I do I feel like I'm looking at my diary it's really really busy on edge I do I feel like I'm looking at my diary it's really really busy like I'm trying to get through my work to have a nice long break I've got to wrap presents and we're hosting Christmas this year so I've got a cook how many four not many so it's like me and my partner and our kids are here and then my mum step, my sister and her boyfriend, but still the pressure. What advice do you have for this time of year for everyone?

Because I feel like people go home. They go back to maybe their place of trauma. What advice do you have people to just feel like they're in their body to feel like they're okay? I mean, Christmas again tv everyone's having fun and opening you know pulling the crackers it's such a joyous period when christmas can bring up a lot of different things for people not everybody loves christmas you know and you've talked about the pressure of hosting and you know certain family members it's going to bring out certain dynamics,

not necessarily certain happy. Oh, he's gained weight. Oh gosh. Oh, child. Depending on that family member, that can be quite blunt. You know, I have some clients that actually don't want to do the family thing at Christmas,

but they're also aware of how that is going to be perceived. And it's not really an option. You have to go and pretend and do the happy families i would say if you can just have a window a period to yourself within the 24 hours so even if that's first thing in the day if you can just have a half an hour and just center yourself and think about i guess what brings you joy on joy on Christmas before you go into the madness of socialising. Or even if you're in the family space, and again, you can just get away for 10, 15 minutes. I guess if someone's feeling anxious or maybe overwhelmed,

another tip that I often give is something called the worry chair. Great. So again, if you can just find a spot, if you're in your house, you know, or a house, and just allow yourself to sit there. And we've talked about that. Just feel the feels of what's coming up, but you have to allocate yourself a time. So when the time is up, you find something to do. So you might then find that and going back downstairs and I'm smiling and I'm going to eat the turkey or whatever guys, whatever you guys are having. But for me, it's's about just recognizing what's coming up for you

you know and where it's potentially coming from is there again a pressure of i've been to other family people other family houses and they've got their house set up a certain way and people expect dinner and a five course menu and actually that's not something that i'm going to be doing this year and that's okay well with that there might come up some comments and a bit of backlash but again you have to sit with but this is what I'm doing for me and my family. And I'm OK with that. As you're talking, I'm getting feelings of like we need to be resilient and confident in who we are, especially with family members. But how do we do that, especially postpartum? Your body looks different

everything feels saggier like I feel like my legs like it's really weird and like saggier they're not as firm so you don't feel as confident in yourself postpartum hair loss like having children is not a joke how do we reclaim some of that confidence when all you see is these bounce back bodies and, you know, there's a lot of pressure to just kind of get on with it. You know, oh, you've had a baby two years ago, like, is she back in the gym now? And it's like, no, like, I'm still, I've still got back pain from my C-section, etc. How do we, I don't know, stay rooted and firm? Again, it's a tricky one.

I think it comes back to your support system and what that looks like. And the reality is, Grace, you can stay rooted and firm. And I already touched on, there's some family members that will knock that out of you. That's the reality, you know. Some people don't have no- You know the trigger, you just get in.

They don't have no filter just get in they don't have no filter and i work a lot with clients with finding their voice and yes you can still vocalize and use your boundaries with some people it's not going to make no difference so i guess it's kind of an acceptance thing and that doesn't mean that i'm losing my boundaries that doesn't mean that i'm not using my voice, but I guess, what are you going to lean into? Because sometimes I feel like it is a bit of wasted breath, really. I've told y'all six times and you're still going to comment on my weight, which doesn't sit right with me. But again, what does your support network look like? Who can I lean into about that? It's also about being patient with yourself as well, because some people have their ideal, as you said,

well, it's been a year now, and you should have maybe snapped back, or you should be doing this, and the house should look a certain way when they're not in your house, and they're not having to deal with what you have to deal with. So again, it comes back to an acceptance piece within yourself, a patience piece, and who am I measuring myself up against as well?

Everyone's always going to have an opinion. Everyone's always going to have a thought. How much of that do you take on board easier said than done though because we're humans yeah and we're vulnerable yeah especially postpartum as well yeah so you're a physiotherapist you have clients yes with your clients that are parents is there a theme that they come with because i feel like especially with conversations that I have my friends we're always wondering if we're doing enough are we good enough there's this like fear I think with our generation of like not traumatizing our children I see two sides of the coin so the

parents that feel like they're not doing enough you know and then the other side of the other side of the coin where I don't want kids because i don't want to recreate the same pattern the same trauma that my parents have still done me so i i'm just not doing it which i feel is a bit sad if that's the main driver of why you don't want kids because that's coming from fear fear fear you know so back to the point that you're talking about in terms of again i keep coming back to this this pressure of wanting to be at a certain place and i do wonder if that leans into perfectionism you know because again i keep coming back to but where has this standard come from and again there's so much going

on some people might have a child and three months later they're in a different place well actually for some a year later i'm still struggling as I said with maybe the weight gain maybe I'm just still not feeling myself my hormones you talked about hair all those things maybe the child isn't sleeping it's just so different for every each and each individual parents but yeah again I keep going back to just allowing yourself some grace actually using your word pun but yeah giving yourself grace I think it's really really important because as I said everyone's journey is different it looks different for everybody and everyone has different struggles you know but essentially you're doing the best that you can that's what I hope people lean into a little bit you are doing the best that you can

and each day is going to bring up something different you know so yeah one thing I've learned is that um when I feel like I'm like really shit hot in my career I feel like a rubbish mum and then when I feel like I'm a really shit hot mum I feel like I'm rubbish in my career and the work-life balance does it exist because I swear to god it does not I feel like it's a buzzword. People use it for clickbait. I cannot find the balance. And I'm constantly teetering with what can I prioritize today? Like, oh, I've got to do this. My deadline's due for this work.

But my baby is teething. It's a lot. Do you think the work-life balance can be achieved I think it can be achieved we also have to be mindful of different seasons because there's going to be probably times when as you said you're going to have different deadlines work might be a bit more taxing than normal again maybe we're at this journey in parenthood where my child is teething so they're going to need a little bit more from me I think think, yes, work-life balance can be achieved, but I think we also have to be mindful

of the season that we're in and what does that look like. Again, work-life balance is subjective. What does that look like to Grace? What does that look like to me? What does it look like to Jo Bluggs down the road? We often, as mothers, I think often put so much pressure on ourselves

and not even just mothers, people in general put so much pressure on ourselves. We need to a step back from that again i always say it's not black and white it's easier said than done i keep coming back to this self-compassion thing you know so if it's christmas period got a few more deadlines then the reality is that i might not have as much work-life balance as i would have liked but after Christmas going into January I can maybe bring that a bit more kiltered and have a bit more balance and made the scales up a little bit more so yeah no one chat to me I'm done no emails and that might be your boundary actually half of January I'm stepping back and that's when I can kind of maybe get some work-life balance back in place and that can take me through to maybe February March and then

we go again and it's mum guilt isn't it like you feel guilty when you're not meeting deadlines or you're doing like your career stuff and you feel guilty if you're not being the mum that you want to be it's just constant mum guilt and I feel like it's so useless it really is. It is again who are we comparing ourselves to I think it's a very normal emotion. And there's no right way to do things. Because where's this template come from? You know? Really, though, where has it come from?

You know, is it our mum's mum's? Is it our auntie? Is it what someone on this morning has said? You know, there's no right way to do things. It's how are you navigating and how are you doing what works best for you in your household your uni you know yes always like parenting experts then you read it and you're like well i am doing none of that or oh i'm just doing one of those and it's just too much i feel like we're in this like place where there's just a lot of parenting advice and it's overwhelming

too much information. I think there's a lot of advice across the board. Mental health, work, you know, and that's why we have to be really mindful of how much we're taking on, how much we're absorbing, you know. Karen, it was so nice to speak to you today. Nice to talk to you as well, Grace. I mean, I've seen you on social media,

but obviously we've never had a conversation. So I'm getting to mingle with the real Grace. social media but obviously we've never had a conversation so i'm getting to mean and mingle with the real grace i feel like i'm taking away today from this conversation self-compassion that's what i feel like yeah it's like the word it is as i said i always say self-compassion grace we're sometimes we can be our own worst enemies our own worst critics and we often take on this inner critic from a childhood schooling parenting whatever we're so hard on ourselves a life can be hard as it is so i think if you can just give yourself a bit of slack because we're trying our best most of us are that's all you can do and on that note

we'll end it here thank you so much thank you for having me thanks for listening to mum's the words a parenting podcast make sure to hit the subscribe or follow button so you never miss an episode we love to hear from you get in touch on whatsapp where you can send us a voice message for free even anonym anonymously if you want, at 075-999-27537. Email us at askmumsthewordpod at gmail.com or leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. We'll be back with another episode, same time, same place, next week.