Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Ellie Taylor

Episode Date: November 1, 2021

Comedian, author, actor (including in the hit show Tad Lasso) and presenter Ellie Taylor joins Ashley to chat about matrescence, why it is important to show the highs and the lows, supporting other mums and postnatal depression with Ashley this week, as well as the joys of soft play and giving yourself a break!TW: This episode mentions suicide and depression.---A Create Production Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

so major thing happened this week guys well actually today i went into london and alf stayed in essex which means that i just left him well i went the furthest away geographically that i could have gone which given when you think back to a few weeks ago, I was worrying about going to the NTAs for a couple of hours. I feel like we have made great progress. And in my pre-motherhood days, in the pre-pandemic days, I definitely used to dread getting on public transport, especially the tube in London. It was like something that was a very, very stressful thing that I would only do when I absolutely had to for work um which used to be every day when I worked in an office um but today however on my first tube journey since having ALF it honestly felt like self-care like you may as

well have imagined me with a face mask and candles in a bathtub. Like it was absolutely heavenly. Nobody talked to me because obviously it's London and no one talks to each other. I read my book the entire way. It was an hour and a half there, an hour and a half back. I actually only had an appointment that was an hour. So it was more travel than appointment. And it was more travel than appointment and it was absolutely

wonderful just time away from alf and the book i'm reading actually does lead me on to this week's guest who i am so so so so excited about because this book is absolutely amazing but it's also someone who um i have become quite good friends with since moving to Essex and I'm just really excited to get stuck into this because I want to talk maternal mental health and just becoming a new mum and mattress sense. So I'm actually so excited for today's guest she She is a comedian, a television personality, actress and writer. She's known for her roles in Ted Lasso, The Mashport, Live at the Apollo and QI. She's also the author of my new favourite book and one that I'm still reading called My Child and Other Mistakes.

And of course, mum to her baby daughter, her baby daughter or just her daughter. Welcome to the show Ellie Taylor. Yes, she's not so much of a baby anymore. She's nearly three. I can't believe it. I know. And I actually met her last week. She's definitely not a baby in my eyes. She's like a big girl. She's a giant. She's a giantess just like her mother. That's what she is. And I'm particularly excited to have you on because you're also um my new neighbor ish my new friend we are we're just down the road from one

another it's it's weird isn't it you don't usually have like I've never had like a work a work person like someone who I've met through work sort of live so close to me I know and it's actually thanks to my mum because um my mom was reading an interview that you did. And she was like, you'll never guess who lives near you, Ellie Taylor. And it was actually when I was going through a particularly bad moment in my new mom journey with my mental health and feeling like a prisoner. And you, of course, have a book called My Child and Other Mistakes, which is great, because I really genuinely believe that I'd made a mistake at that moment in my life. And I reached out and there you were like a magic.

I don't know what my analogies aren't great when I'm sleep deprived. Just a magic person with open arms. A woman down the road who's also had a baby. Yeah, it's yeah, those first few months were so hard for me as well. So I really feel for any woman who's in those strange, it's just a strange time of transition, isn't it? When you're kind of trying to work out what you are, who you are, and how on earth this all works going forward. Do you want to share your journey, Ellie, of like what you went through as a new mum? Sure. Yeah. So I had a kid at the end of 2018. So I had her in November. Would not recommend a

winter baby. Awful idea. I had her just as sort of the nights were getting like earlier and earlier there was a little little daylight each day and it was getting you know it was still on on the on like it was still increasing wasn't it until you get to December so it was just like you know less and less light um so that didn't that for a start that didn't help my my brain as I sort of yeah leaped into new motherhood um and yes I had had, you know, my birth was pretty fine. I had an elective cesarean and found the recovery from that a bit harder than I anticipated. But, you know, in the grand scheme of women who've had tricky births, you know, really nothing to complain about. And then I, yes, found new motherhood really hard, really hard, harder than I could ever have anticipated.

And it was just everything about it was different to how I imagined it to be. I think I just didn't really, I didn't really estimate, I didn't really sort of conceive about how different I would feel and how, you know, it's not just one minute you're a woman, then you have a baby and suddenly you're a mother. It's a real sort of, it is a transition, like I've said, you sort of have to, you learn what it's like, you grow into it. And there's a word that I talk about in my book. I don't know if you've got to that bit yet, Ashley, but it's called matrescence. And it's the period of life where a woman is going from woman to mother. And in the same way, adolescence is sort of a period of change and hormonal change and physiological change that something, and it's also something that can't be reversed. That's exactly what matrescence is. A real sort of process of morphing into sort of a new person. And when I heard that, that made real sense to me because

I was like, well, of course, that's what I was going through when I was trying to get to grips with having this new baby. Because I think I struggled so much with the fact that this was it. And I think managing to get my head around, and this sounds ridiculous, get my head around the idea that it never ends. It's not like, oh, I've got two weeks really busy work and then I work and then I'll have a weekend off and it's all fine. I was sort of living and scrambling with the new baby, like I was heading towards some kind of deadline, but there is no deadline, there is no point where you do get to go and relax. That doesn't exist. And to truly grasp

that in your head, that it's not a short burst of graft, it's like a new way of living, was a really big thing for me. And I think once I've sort of made my peace with that, I would say around five, six months, then I felt much better. And I think once I've sort of made my peace with that, I would say around five, six months, then I felt much better. And I think in hindsight, I probably did have some sort of postnatal depression. But I didn't realise when I was in it. I don't think I sort of felt like I was allowed to use that terminology. Because, you know, that happened to other people. It didn't happen to me and I was being dramatic and it wasn't that bad. But I think actually writing my book really helped me kind of see what it was and how low I really was at that point. Do you know what's so interesting?

Because for one, I've been pronouncing the term that you used wrong this whole time because I've been calling it mattress sense. But you and a few other people told me about this term and it kind of, it just really helped me to kind of piece together what I was feeling. And like you, it was that kind of realization of having no time off. And it's funny, isn't it? Because before motherhood, or at least in my own experience of it, I was kind of like desensitized to how hard it was. And you kind of hear all these like horrific expressions thrown around, like, well, if you don't want kids, don't have them. Or, you know, all of this, all of these like kind of horrific things that people say. But actually, you really can't understand the idea of like you don't get any time off and that's you know like I remember just thinking in the bath like when I'd have like really really

dark thoughts and I feel like I'm only just kind of coming out of this kind of whether it's depression postnatal depression lockdown depression just the fact that I've been dealing with a lot of life change I still I'm not quite sure what but it was that feeling where I was like oh my gosh I never get a day off from this and how can you ever plan for that and know for that and I think you know like you talk a lot about in your book I didn't like babies before I had one and there was that kind of like fear in me and even in throughout my pregnancy I actually still didn't like babies before I had one and there was that kind of like fear in me and even throughout my pregnancy I actually still didn't really like them and I remember thinking like oh god how's this gonna how's this gonna work they even like children I'm pleased to say now I

actually can't imagine not liking children and they're just the most magical little creatures and I actually look back at my like old self and cringe a bit that I'm like how did I not like these little people I think exactly the same and I also think it's because you know how much work and love and blood and sweat and tears have gone into the creation of that child and the upbringing of that child you don't look at a parent anymore and just go oh as a parent you know like when I see a new mum know, I viscerally know the hand grenade of shit that has been lobbed into her life. And I know the process that, you know, she's trying to get her head around. And obviously some people find it harder than others, but I think generally it's a really massive life change. And I appreciate every mother so much now because I just know what they've put into it.

Do you know what I mean? I think that's why I, in turn, like you, didn't really like kids before. But now, yeah, I can't imagine not going, God, look at that kid. That kid is a marvel. And not just for them themselves, but the whole family, the whole network that has brought this kid into the world and is keeping them alive and is guiding them. It's massive and profound. And I certainly did not appreciate it before I had a kid. Do you know what? Exactly that. And as somebody who's always called himself a feminist, actually, I definitely didn't in my teenage years. I was definitely, I'm not like the other girls

kind of person in my teenage years teenagers but then I became a feminist and it was actually only after becoming a mother that I was like bloody hell there's someone that considered themselves a feminist I didn't half have a lot of sexism and internalized misogyny against mums like even this whole thing in my pregnancy I kept being like oh you know I'm not like other mums or I don't like maternity wear because I don't like frumpy clothing as if every mother before me had been like wearing aprons um but yeah like now now that I'm a mum and like like even like like you know Tom and I always say 50 50 parenting but actually there's still so much inequality in terms of like, you can have the most, I like vomit this word, but hands on dad, but the expectation is still on the mom. Like the, you know, work life, like the fact that men only get, I mean, you know, two weeks, let's say as a standard paternity leave, like we are expected to care on our own for a child before we are even healed. we are expected to care on our own for a child before we are even healed.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, don't get me started on the parental leave side of things. Yeah, it's mad. The system is so stacked against us. And it just means the fact that when you go into a job interview as a woman, employers will be looking at you as potentially someone who might want to take, you know, six to 12 months off to have a kid. They don't look at that with a bloke because it's not an option on the table in the majority of cases. The blokes will get, yeah, their two-week paternity leave. They may be able to access shared paternal leave like my husband did actually, which is amazing. But still, the fact that that is paid at a statutory wage, which is, I think, around £145 a week, it's not sustainable for most couples. For the guy who is often in a better paid job because of how the system generally is stacked against women, it's just not an option for blokes to take that much time off.

So, again, the woman has to take time off. Like, yeah, it's just not an option for blokes to take that much time off so again the woman has to take time off like yeah it's all so annoying and then of course you come back to the basic biology of it that if you're fortunate enough and you want to breastfeed and you can you are by default and you sort of end up having to do more of the the heavy lifting so to so to speak because of your tits which um i know you you know you're a you obviously breastfeed i I breastfeed as well. And I found that really difficult sort of getting over resentment really because it was down to me. And it wasn't my husband's fault he doesn't lactate. But it felt, yes, it felt weighted towards me at the beginning.

And it felt weighted towards me when I was on maternity leave and he was back at work. I found that quite tricky to navigate. But I would say from my experience, as my child has got older and she has gone into childcare for like formal childcare and we're both back at work, we are much more equal now. And I think, yeah, if anyone described my husband as hands-on, I would, yeah, want to vomit, like you said.

We're parents and we both do our job. He's not hands-on he does not help me he's not my assistant um we are both equal parents and I feel very lucky for that I mean obviously it's it's always a bit of a power struggle but I think we work quite hard at that and I think it is something you can't take it for granted and sometimes you have to be a bit vocal and you have to say hey call it out if it's not if you're seeing sort of some um something that isn't equal happening you have to kind of vocally say it out. If it's not, if you're seeing sort of something that isn't equal happening, you have to kind of vocally say it because I think, yes,

sometimes it's so ingrained in us perhaps that, you know, mummy sorts out this, mummy sorts out the doctor's appointment, mummy makes sure that there's socks in the drawer, that we all have to flag that and maybe bring it up as a subject when it shouldn't even be a subject why should i don't want to talk about who's bought socks do you know i mean that's not what i want to talk about but sometimes you've got to you've got to address it i think before it can um sort of spread into something a little bit more tricky in a relationship yeah i think like that

communication is definitely the key there and there's been many an instance where tom is like i wish i had breasts i wish i could breastfeed but i can't yeah but um we do very much enjoy the the term that you coined about uh calling it the breast front the restaurant yes oh i'm sure i didn't make that up yeah i'm sure i'm i've nicked that off someone else but it's a good it's a good one isn't it the breast front what i was going to say is i think this um kind of inequality I don't know why I didn't expect it like I think because I've never had to I just you know I've been a career woman I've not been maternal I felt very kind of like masculine and everything that I've done and achieved that the kind of like inequality that's still there in heterosexual relationships which is obviously

the experience that I speak from is um it's an equal and like you say like the fact that Tommy would get praised for literally walking down the street with a pram whereas I'd be doing exactly the same thing with stitches potentially having shat myself and being up all night at the restaurant and yet people would literally kind of like push me out of the way onto the road and tut at me and I'd be like it's not fair why does Tom get so much love but then um I don't know how you felt but in terms of like maternal mental health I've always been a perfectionist and an overachiever and I've always I think also been quite defensive of of wanting to accept help and I think that's why I kind of

I knew that um postnatal depression was something very serious but I kind of thought it wouldn't happen to me and if it did then I'd be fine and I'd get through it is that like what was kind of your experience I know you said that you feel like you look like retrospectively you had an element of um postnatal depression in your matricence did you did you ever seek help for it did you ever communicate it or and rather what would be your advice to any new parents or any new mums that feel like they might be going through something similar yeah I didn't I didn't ever seek uh official help I didn't go I didn't talk to any healthcare professionals about it again because at the point it was happening and I was in that fog I didn't think I needed to do you know what I mean it's only sort of now I think I probably could have spoken to someone

but I it wasn't like I was bottling it up I definitely did talk to my friends um and I found that talking to my friends talking to my family really helped I feel I feel quite lucky that I'm not a bottler really I do you know I don't bottle things up I mean I do tend to talk to people so I felt very it was good that I sort of had that line of communication that was open. And I think it is so important to be open and to have real life interactions as well, not just online, which I think is so easy when you are a new mum. And obviously, I absolutely think that social media can have wonderful benefits for an isolated new mother. But I think so often you need a little bit more than that. I'm working with Maltesers at

the moment actually on a campaign called love beats likes which is all about exactly that so more than you know just liking a new mum's post online that's very nice but sometimes we need to go beyond that we need to really check in on new mums you know whether it's which dropping round or you know I had a couple of friends bring me around food like just you know real life food was really magic um and a few times I had um like my sister I felt very lucky that I had her she was older than me she had a couple of kids and she was really quite ballsy in just turning up when I didn't even know I needed that and I wouldn't have, sort of like how you were saying earlier, not very good at accepting help. I'm quite stubborn like that

myself. And I wouldn't have necessarily said, come round, I need you. But she just turned up and was like, I'm going to look after the baby, go and sleep. I'll take the baby for a walk, go and sit down by yourself somewhere. And for someone to just take the reins a little bit, and obviously not every woman wants that. And maybe if it was on a different day that she turned up I wouldn't have wanted it but she seemed to know me well enough to be able to judge it and she really turned up for me um and I really I really needed that sometimes and I think yeah just just you know encouraging friends and family to really just make the extra effort for new mums, because so often we, I think, especially if you are posting things online, you can seem happy and lovely and you only post the nice bits. From my experience, I was not as chirpy. I was not as

together as perhaps people may have seen, may have thought, you know, if they'd seen me on social media. And so many women do sort of use social media as a little boost um there was like a study done a third of first-time mums admitted to only sharing positive posts on social media and like that just sort of fans the flames of it doesn't it it seems like there's still a bit of not a bit there's still a lot of stigma of you know you kind of talking about this earlier about being you know you're you can be grateful that you've got a child you can be over the moon for the fact that you know you you were fortunate enough to get pregnant fortunate enough to have this beautiful baby you can love your child or at the beginning

for me i didn't i don't think i loved my child for a little bit i liked her and then i grew to love her but i think you can feel grateful for all of those things and yet also find it awful also hate the newborn experience um and none of that affects how good you are as a parent and i think being able to take the shame away from not being like oh my god i'm so in love i love being a mom everything is amazing like i i'm so here for women loudly going god this, this bit's dog shit, isn't it? Isn't it fucking hard? And I really wish that I could just have a week of my old life right now. That is all I want. To be able to voice that and not have people going, oh, you're moaning. Why didn't you have a baby then if you didn't want one? It's not about that. You're going through this massive

life transition. You are allowed to find it hard. i think if we can encourage women to to be open about that and to support women who do that just takes the pressure off for everyone do you know what i mean just not not trying to it doesn't have to be sunshine and roses all of the time it is okay to hate it sometimes that is perfectly normal and i think way more normal than we perhaps realize um so yes that's my little rant over um do you know what it is actually a very worthy rant and I I worked with Maltese's um at the beginning of the year as a new mum myself and I love the fact that they invest so much in maternal mental health because um I also felt huge pressure I think if I remember the statistics correctly I believe that one in ten women um are their mental health is um affected either during pregnancy or

within the first year of the baby's life so that's obviously I'm still knee deep knee deep in these kind of like mental struggles and obviously slam a pandemic into the mix as well then um I mean it's it's it's a lot isn't it and I I do feel that stigma and taboo still because even from my friends who I love dearly and who love me dearly I remember you know talking about my I think my friend asked me how childbirth was and And that is something that I did find a traumatic experience. And she kind of was like, oh, God, OK, I don't need to know in that much detail. And I felt, you know, like really shut off and silenced. Or there's still this horrific thing that you kind of touched on where people are like,

mums are so negative. Mums are so negative. If you don't want children, don't have them. And actually, you're right. Like parenting is hard. It's one of the biggest life changes that you can go through. Like you don't have children, don't have them. And actually you're right. Like parenting is hard. It's one of the biggest life changes that you can go through. Like you don't have to love all of it. And I just think it's amazing.

I personally don't want to follow anyone who pretend it's all smiles and roses and not because I don't love the optimism and the positivity. Of course I do. But because it makes me feel shit that I hate so much of it. Yeah, quite right. I totally, I totally get what you mean. I'm really, I really like people who sort of talk about the shit bits of parenting. I always find it very funny as well because it's, you are all in it together. On each step with Peloton, from their pop runs to walk and talks,

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Hello and welcome to A to Z of Men, a brand new podcast that helps explain, well, men. Each week, myself, Chris Brooks. And me, Scott Robinson. We take on a different letter of the alphabet. What? In order? Yeah, in order. We will find a word that best describes men that starts with that letter. So it's basically like a guide?

Like a guide, yeah, that's correct. This will really help me explain myself to the wife. We tackle topics such as mental health, stereotypes and stupid things us men do. Don't forget sex. Oh, and sex. So join us each Wednesday as we create the A to Z of men. You can find us wherever you get your podcasts from, including Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Acast. Just search for A to Z of men.

including Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Acast. Just search for A to Z of Men. So many ridiculous things happen when you have a child and a baby. And I think, yeah, just being able to share that. I'm sorry that you felt shut down by your friend. That's really rubbish. And it's funny, isn't it? Because I can't imagine ever doing that. Because I suppose maybe that's just my personality type. Even before I had a kid, I was desperate to know everything. And I wanted the goriest stories because I thought that that would prepare me. you can you can read as many books as you like and you can listen to as many podcasts as you like and i would have this is exactly the type of podcast i would have listened to when i was pregnant but

really i think the truth of it is you cannot know what it is like to have a newborn until you have a newborn and obviously your everyone's um experience will be totally different but i think if you can go into it knowing if someone had really said to me or if I'd really tried to get my head around the fact that I it might be really dark for quite a few months but you have to remember that this bit this crap bit is not indicative of the rest of parenting this first bit is mad it's absolutely wild but it does not represent the majority of parenting that I have subsequently done it's so much less uh unlike sort of unpredictable it's um it's more fun it does get more fun and and less relentless and I think I lost sight of that in the in the early days and I just thought well this is it forever I am lost forever uh I'm marooned I'm marooned in my own life I think I thought for a while um and yeah if I if I can

say one thing to new mums and it's such a trope isn't it that you hear it's just a phase it's just a phase but it really all is a phase and that that applies to both your your kid not sleeping properly but also how you feel in your brain I can't remember who I read something somewhere that someone was treating it like you know your your brain when you had a kid like it's like weather passing through like you're in a storm but the weather will pass through and the sunshine will come out again um and and you will be all right even if you can't see it at the beginning when it is pretty tricky and you know you're so right because I think when we started chatting I was very much in the like oh my god

have I made a terrible mistake and I would have such dark suicidal thoughts not necessarily that you know I was thinking today I will kill myself but I'd be like oh my god and even if I want to kill myself I can't because then it's really selfish because then I'll leave Alpha without a mother. And even that kind of mad thought kind of left me feeling trapped because I'd be like, oh my God, I can't even end things if I don't like it anymore.

That power. And that sounds like, so I don't mean that to sound as like scary and frightening as it is, but these are just some of like the thoughts that would like come into my mind. And it's not necessarily that I ever thought of actually doing it but it was almost like the freedom to do it was taken away which is also why I realized that I did um have some form of

postnatal depression because let's be honest like fixating on suicidal thoughts is not something a healthy mind would do actually that's really tricky I'm so sorry that you were in that place that's horrible but do you know what even going back to like the campaign you're doing with Maltesers I think this is what's so important and also you did this because when I reached out saying I'm gonna buy your book my child and other mistakes because I feel like I've made a terrible mistake and you could have just been like really really sorry to hear that. Like a couple of pictures, like a couple of my Instagram photos about mental health and then move on with your life.

But you didn't. And, you know, even last week Ellie invited me to soft play and it's such a like, such a basic thing. Like, cause also like who wants to go to soft play, but it was the best thing because it, you know, it's amazing just to get out of the house and meet other people.

And, you know now I'm in a place where I get more from Alf and I it's not even like I always knew I was a good mom like I've always felt quite in tune with my like intuition with it but it's just getting my head around the life change and also it was just a total head fuck because I was like am I depressed because of lockdown or am I depressed because of lockdown or am I depressed because it's maternal mental health and actually I still don't really know because let's be honest it it's a mad mad world um but what I do know is that you could have just

liked a comment and moved on and you didn't you were you were there and it does make a difference and I would say someone that I am someone who is like quite strong and comes across as very self-assured and confident and even I was struggling and I think you know that's something that's always worth bearing in mind because I think there's a quote that always going that always goes around that says like check in on your friends even like the confident ones even the happy ones even the you know basically everybody because you just don't know what people are going through especially in those kind of like early motherhood days yeah I feel like the fact

that I had so many amazing women that not not all of them were really good friends sometimes it was just people I'd met once or twice but people who really really made an effort when I had a newborn and I will never forget that never forget those little acts of kindness and because of that I feel like anyone who's been at the end of that who's received such love will pass it on so that I am so I'm so up for I like I can't explain how much I love a newborn mom and I like I just because I like I said I just I feel like I I viscerally feel what they're going through and I remember and I and I always want to reach out. I will always actively try and reach out. And I think those women in turn that maybe I've made the extra effort with will in turn do it with other women. And so we pass it on because you're never by yourself because you're always with your kid. But at the same time, you are incredibly isolated or can be. And I think perhaps one thing that's interesting about talking about the importance of keeping an eye on a new mum's mental health is the fact that for me, and I imagine for many women, this could be the first time they've ever experienced any issues with

their mental health I'd never before. So it's quite a scary place to be for when for the first time you go, oh, crikey, I don't feel like myself. This is a new area for me. I've never had to really worry about my brain. But now I do. And I think, yeah, having gone through that, and I think you will actually now you've gone through that that and you've had those awful dark thoughts. You've been in such a, you know, a bleak place that you will always reach out to other women because you will, I don't know, you've just been there and you know what it's like firsthand. A hundred percent. And I actually, I cringe at myself now when I think of my friends that had babies before me and I actually I like I couldn't have been less interested I think I even said like oh sorry I don't really don't really like children that when they were like do you want to hold my

child so I can go to the loo oh I'd rather not and now I'm like oh my god why was I like such a oh my god I was awful. Yeah, I was exactly the same. Exactly the same. My sister had two beautiful kids and I was such an apathetic auntie. I would do anything to avoid looking after them. I was such a selfish little child. But now I know, and now I know.

She's bloody moved to Australia and taken them with her. So just be warned, be nice to your nieces and nephews because sometimes they move to the other side of the world. But I think, do you know what, I know what we can berate ourselves for being little twats when we were younger. But this is what this is essentially what life is about. You learn, you become a better person. And, you know, I think having a child has made me more empathetic and I think that's um that's I'm really pleased with that I think I really needed that and I didn't realize how much I needed that that having a child has made me a nicer human. 100% same for me and you know even like starting this podcast

it was kind of like to try and like take people on a journey as I try and fill in the blanks but also it's yeah like trying to understand that kind of like loneliness and speak to other people. And there's actually a lot of joy in like, in realizing that everyone goes through something similar, but also completely unique. And, you know, I always think like, I have friends that don't have children and they don't get it. And I know I don't resent them for it because I didn't get it. So, you know, as much as sometimes I think like a friend was around the other day and she was like, oh, my God, your nipples are so big. And I was like, yeah, I probably put that in the bank of things not to say to a new mom. And I was like, just, you know, they're big because apparently it helps the baby find them when they're newborns but um thank you for now giving me one other thing to contemplate but I'm like

you know what I know that I was that knob once as well and you're right like I've actually never felt like a sisterhood like it since becoming a mom and I'm always always gonna kind of pass it on and be there for people and also with the understanding that what I found difficult might not be what someone else finds difficult and vice versa I find that quite tricky actually I really have to sort of and I'm sure I would have said a million things in this podcast with you about you know I would have said things as statements because they were my experience and I forget that not everyone's experience is my experience. My child does not represent all children and my maternal journey does not represent every woman's maternal journey. I think it's so hard to remember that, especially when I think I'm going to guess when you've got

one kid like you and I, you've got no, you know, you've only got, you've only got one experience of it all. So there's nothing to compare it to even directly in your life. But again, we can only try our hardest and realize when we've made a mistake and learn from it. But we're all, we're all, you know, sort of muddling our way through and just trying to do a good job. And we will inevitably fuck it up. And we will say things along the lines of the comment you've just said your friend said about your nips we will say that to another mum and we will accidentally be judging them or making them feel worried about you know their child or the way they're parenting we will 100% do that probably way more than we realize but as long as everything

that you say comes from a kind place I think if it's meant with love then we're trying we're all trying yeah and I think this is a really good thing that maybe if you're listening and you're like do you know what my friend keeps saying that or my mother-in-law keeps saying this and it upsets me it's actually like a good like reminder to maybe like communicate how you feel because most people don't say things from horrible place and even like you know I was single for six years pretty much until I had my baby and I used to say things like oh everyone's forgetting about me because they're so busy with their families and I'm like you know and all of that like stuff I'd say which I felt at the time and now I'm like do you know what if I knew

what new mums were going through I would have stopped complaining about being lonely and gone and like given company to my new mum friends because actually like everyone's as lonely like no no experience is lonelier it's a state of mind really isn't it like you know you can all be there for each other and also understand that I suppose people go through different things at different times by the way I have to say and not just because you're here I'd say it behind your back as well but your book my child and other mistakes it's it's I hate I'm actually hate myself in advance for saying this but it's a lol-a-thon like every page every single page is like you're very good at being really funny even around really sensitive issues and it's just amazing for anyone listening and maybe you are feeling a bit low or feeling like you've made a mistake or even if you're somehow

on this podcast and don't even want children it it's really it is really really brilliant oh thank you so much I'm so delighted that you think that and I'm I'm so delighted by you know the feedback I've had from other mums has been so gorgeous and way like I don't think I'd anticipated it to be honest just I think I wrote it as the book I wish I could have read when I was you know thinking about having a kid or pregnant or with a newborn and it is it's it's it is really funny because I'm a comedian and if it wasn't I would be in the wrong job but it is also I think people haven't perhaps um sort of anticipated how raw and you know dark it can be in places because I'm very open about how I found um you know especially the newborn days and it's I want

it to be like um a sort of you know a book cuddle and a little a little non-fiction hug for you and I've had so many women saying, like, you've taken the thoughts from my head. I feel so, I feel seen, I feel validated. And I think that's, that's like why I wanted to write the book is that having a kid is such a commonplace, unremarkable thing to do. Like so many people pop out babies every day, who gives a shit, right? so many people pop out babies every day who gives a shit right but to each woman the the experience as we have been talking about is massive and it is seismic and i think we can forget how extraordinary the journey of becoming a parent can be because it is such an everyday common ten a penny occurrence and i think that's the strange thing about parenting.

It's so profound. And at the same time, you know, who gives a shit? And I think that's where the book comes from. It's like acknowledging that it's a really boring story, really. It's about a boring woman who had a kid, nothing to see here sort of thing. And yet it's the most massive mind-altering experience I've ever had. And I think in turn, I hope that my boring magical experience represents so many other mums' boring magical experiences. Even though we feel so alone in our thoughts, actually, once you speak to people and realise that it's something that a lot of people go through and actually it's it's usually when you like choose to be open and vulnerable that that you find common ground you know other people

have experienced it or know people who've experienced it and so I just think for anyone listening who you know is going through dark days or is feeling like they might have made a terrible mistake, like open up, like open up to whether that's friends, family, whoever it might be, my DMs, do you know what I mean? Like the most mundane thing to happen, like everyone goes, well, not everyone, people go through it, but it's only when you just kind of talk about it that you kind of find other people that are going through it or have gone through it and who can help i think that's the thing is it's that you know there's kind of two issues isn't there there's the thoughts that you have and then there's the shame that is attached to having those thoughts

and while we can't help you you know change those thoughts in your head that is definitely something that every person has to deal with we can you know talking about this now i i will take that shame off you there is no shame in finding new motherhood hard take that thought away i will scrunch it in a little ball and i'm gonna throw it in the nappy bin right there is no shame there and i i i want to yell that loudly for anyone who's finding parenting hard that's okay don't beat yourself don't give yourself something else you know to beat yourself around the head with i take it from you my child before i let you go ellie every week i get questions through and this week it's from lucy who got in touch at askmumsthewordpod at gmail.com

and I thought you might be able to help with the answer because she says thanks so much for bringing out these podcasts I've just had my baby boy six weeks ago congrats and work want me to come back as soon as possible so she just wants to know when we started working again oh well it's a tricky one isn't it because I imagine that you and I have funny experiences of this because we work in a strange uh industry so I did go back to work quite early but me going back to work was one or two things here and there not you know nine to five in an office or you know all day on a shop floor. I did get back. I started doing stuff at around three months. It was definitely too early. In hindsight, I should have said no to everything. I think

I wish I was brave enough to say I'm not doing anything for six months, but I was self-employed and scared that I would never work again, which I think is a very common theme for self-employed women and contractors. So I would say don't go back until you're ready and you don't have to tell work when you want to go back. You can give them an idea, but I don't think legally they're allowed to. I don't know the international employment law. Yeah, and when they say they want me to come back

as soon as possible, I feel like it's good for you to know that you are 100% entitled to your maternity leave and that the match how do you pronounce it mattress sense no matrescence matrescence is a big thing as we've discussed so you know take your time and i think it is this like sexist or outdated idea that um maternity leave is a bit like a holiday oh god yes absolutely ridiculous time off what all right all right mate yeah I would say it's better to you know aim for longer and then be a bit bit bored on maternity leave then you know be you'd be going back before you're ready so go go

for as long as you can I would say and then you can always dial it back if you need to but it's really it's really hard when you feel like you're being pulled in two directions and especially if you feel pressure financially it's a really really tricky conundrum and I sometimes don't really understand how how society has functioned thus far because how on earth are you meant to have a job and also raise the next generation it's mad no absolutely mad anyway I need to go change my nappy bin Ellie I know you've got stuff to do as well yay mum life um but thank you so much talking to me I've been so excited to um chat and I can't wait to finish your book as well oh thanks mate it's a pleasure and I think I see it's off play but yeah it's been a pleasure and I'm so like what what a lovely thing to do

these podcasts I know they come from like just your raw experience and wanting to share it so I think it's just such a lovely resource for pregos and new mums and parents and maybe to people who are interested in babies to have so thanks Ashley thank you very much and I will see you very soon I absolutely loved that chat like I said it's the one that I've been wanting to have for a while and for anyone that is kind of going through what i went through and then i mean even if you just want a really good book to read to be honest it's called my child and other mistakes um but yeah loved loved that chat and if you have any questions or if you want to chat about anything we talked about then remember that you can get in touch by emailing

askmumsthewordpod at gmail.com. And you can now leave us a voicemail on WhatsApp. That seems so high tech. The number is 07599 927 537. Or the easiest way is, of course, to leave it as a review on Apple Podcasts. And if you think that you know anyone might need to listen to this or you think it might be useful for anyone or you just enjoy it and want

to spread the word then please do as it really helps and i will be back same time next week with a different guest