Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Exploring Mum Guilt with Chemmy Alcott

Episode Date: April 10, 2022

English former World Cup alpine ski racer, presenter and mum to two Chemmy Alcott joins us to discuss all aspects of mum guilt, from deciding to get a nanny and the backlash women face, choosing to go back to work after 2 weeks and even feeling guilt for the name of her second child, we explore it all on this weeks episode of Mums the Word!Ask Ashley a question for the podcast at [e-mail]---A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Peloton all-access membership separate. Learn more at onepeloton.ca slash running. I've actually taken my first day off Alston Child Care and I decided to have a completely guilt-free day. And I know that a topic, a hot topic that I want to talk about is mum guilt and also childcare and the guilt around that. So I'm really, really excited about today's guest. She is Britain's top female downhill skier. She's a four-time Winter Olympian. She is the BBC ski presenter.

She's a ski coach. And I don't even know how she found the time to also have two children. It's mum of two. It's Shemi Olcott. Oh, thank you so much for having me on. I'm a big fan. And every time I see you kind of posting

about breastfeeding in public and mum guilt, I'm like, I feel that too, Ashley. I feel that. So I'm so excited we can chat I feel like I've been um like watching your journey from afar funny enough um I just randomly saw this clip that's going viral so I don't know how long ago it was but um an actress a New Zealand actress called Melanie Linsky, her acceptance speech to thank her nanny for providing childcare so that she was able to go to work. And I thought this was something that was really interesting because normally people either keep their nanny secret or they feel a lot of guilt and shame around it. And I know that you went back to work after two weeks. So I just wanted to get your thoughts on this and ask if you had a nanny.

And I grew up in a really crazy household where I've got two older brothers and my mom did a degree in women's liberation. And she felt like she had to do everything herself and not admit that our cleaner wasn't just our cleaner. She was our nanny too so I got brought up with this this kind of belief that it was dirty to admit to having support in your in your household like you're not allowed to you're you're supposed to be seen to be doing all yourself so it took me a year to publicly talk about having a nanny even though I was out there on the mountains two weeks after giving birth filming for ski sunday and obviously I was having help because there's no way I could have done what I could do. There's no way I could have gone back to work in the mountains that quickly without help. But it took me a year to admit to having a nanny because I was kind of brainwashed into thinking that I should be able to do it all myself.

And that's completely a kind of negative fantasy that I was brought up in that in that belief so I'm really an advocate for being able to still wear the same hats that I wore before motherhood and that is all down to the fact that we have incredible um support at home and and a nanny who lives with us and she's amazing and she started working with us when she was 19 um and she's still with us now she isn't moving on soon um but i just think it's it's important for you to admit that you're doing this because otherwise it's not realistic to other people especially if you're semi in the public eye and people are following you like how are you doing this how are you able to do this and you're you're kind of lying to your followers and and in your vulnerable state

as a new mother you want to be known that it's okay to go out there and ask for help and some people have family to help my mother's not around anymore um and so it was it was important for me to actually find the confidence to say no I can only be the best version of me because I have a nanny I'm so sorry about your mum by the way um it was it's a weird one part of my mum not being here because I I got over it quite quickly um she passed away when I was 22 and um and I obviously cried it was really hard at the time but then I got back to life and life moved on and I only ever started grieving again when I became a mum I think when you become a mum, you need, you kind of retract into being that young

girl who needs their mum again for support. You need someone who is there behind you, who can see you at your lowest, who understands it. And that role in your life, in most people's life is their mum. So I actually only started missing her again when I became a mum again. Oh, it's really interesting, isn't it? it because um I mean I get on with my mum I'm very lucky that she's still around but I wouldn't say that she was um that we had that relationship and now that I'm a mum it's made me really really think about our relationship and some of the stuff she comes out with I always say like mum how on earth did you raise us because she'll say things like she's from um near newcastle hence why i'm

doing an accent by the way it's not just like a random accent but she's like actually do you never just put alf outside in the pram and let him cry and i'm like no no mom i i really i really don't but thank you for ensuring that you will not be looking after him anytime soon um so yeah it's really interesting because i've thought a lot more about my upbringing and the way I was raised but also like a newfound respect for my mum I've really realized that we had like quite different love languages and we've never like you know we've never not got on but um I definitely have a lot more respect for her now that I'm a mum and like realizing that you know she did her absolute best and made so many sacrifices and sacrifices you know she had two

jobs um and you know it's when you're little like you only really want like your parents around so when they weren't around you know I kind of like I guess harbored a bit of resentment towards that but now that I'm a mum myself I'm like wow they really did what they believed to be the best thing to give us the best opportunities exactly and I, the world's changed in terms of danger and everything. And I remember one of my friends in Norway, her mom saying to me, we just wrap the kids up and leave them outside at minus 20. So after my second, I went back to work again. I basically had terribly timed babies. Both of them were born in January. And the Ski Sunday TV show is basically filmed January, February.

And I'm not giving up my role. I fought so hard for this. And actually in their defense, the Ski Sunday producer was like, look, Shemi, we think you're asking a bit too much from yourself. But as soon as someone says that, you're like, I can do this. But I went up to Sweden and it was freezing up there. And everyone's like, why are you, why do you keep bringing keep bringing him in Cooper's asleep you should leave him outside in the pram with all those clothes on at minus 20 because that's how they grow their resilience and their immunity and I was like really I mean in London you know and if it's minus one we don't do anything like that but um you know it's all these different parenting styles I remember actually when someone said to me oh my gosh you're just like your mum and for me it for me, it was a really weird one because I kind of resented that a little bit because I thought my mum was crazy and some decision making that she had when we were growing up and the force of nature that she was. But I think, you know, once they've passed away and they're not here anymore, you kind of, you want to be a bit of them. Like I now take it as a real compliment because my mom managed to bring up

three, you know, very individual, but very confident children. And actually because of that, I think, I don't know if you're the same, but I always wanted what I had. So I wanted to have two boys and a girl because I have got two blood brothers. I've got a bit, quite a bigger extra family now, but I had two blood. And I was like, right, that's what I've got. And now I've got two boys, but I can can't have a third I think I'm just surviving like I've actually finally admitted to myself that I am that swan where I look kind of elegant out of water and what I'm

projecting to the world is that I'm in control but my legs are crazy and I'm upstream and I'm just afloat and I thought if we throw another mix into that then uh then we might not survive and I might you know you do feel like you you might not have enough love for the next one which I know is so silly because you you've just got one haven't you and I guess you might be in the same boat where you think can I extend this love beyond Alfie because you love him so much like I talk about this all the time people listening probably like shut up actually but because I didn't want children before I got pregnant I never really envisioned you know I never thought when I'm older I'll have because I'm from a family and I've got a brother and a sister and I'm really close with them and you know I would hate for them not to be around of course

but then I think I really you know when people are like oh one's a doddle and in my head I'm like well then I am not made for motherhood because this is not a doddle to me but also I it's more that I feel like I love him so much I'm so like pleased and happy that he's around like he brings so much joy and I know that I would love another one the same like of course I would but it's more that I I feel happier now because I'm starting to get my life back you know yeah and then you feel guilty for thinking actually like like like now you know even physically mentally I feel like I'm just coming out the other side of not not having a little baby anymore and then you feel guilty for going oh my gosh you know am I

allowed to feel like this again am I allowed to feel like the shimmy pre-babies again? But you totally are. I mean, this guilt thing, I really want to address this quite a lot because I have it massively from everything. Even, you know, I've got a name guilt for my second. My first is called Lockie and my second is called Cooper. And Cooper was a name that I dejected

and rejected for Lockie. And then, you know, two years later comes around and I'm like, oh my God, boys names. I'm really struggling, really struggling. And then I was like oh my god boys names I'm really struggling really struggling and then I was like I'm just I'm gonna use Cooper because I liked it and it's kind of funky um and then everyone's oh how did you come up with that name for Cooper and I'm like well I actually had it for Lockie but I didn't choose it for Lockie and I'm like oh my gosh does that mean that Cooper's second best but it doesn't it's just you have this you know your your brain does crazy things when you're a mum,

making you judge every decision way harder than it should be. Yeah, it's interesting because I feel like I don't actually get much mum guilt. Like, for example, like, do I feel guilty about the fact that I've decided to take a day off today, even though I'm out in childcare and it should be my workday? No. Like, do I feel guilty that I send off to childcare? No. Like, I actually feel like this is making me like a way better mum should be my work day no like do i feel guilty that i send after child care no like i i actually feel like this is making me like a way better mom because the time i get with him but where i feel guilty is so going back to um you know the the idea around the nanny like i genuinely didn't realize that there was a stigma around um having a nanny and you know my my parents are from a

working class background. Like I mentioned before, they work two jobs to try and give us the opportunities. And my mum was a hairdresser and she basically had to go back to work after six weeks. So we, similar to what you were saying, you know, we had a nanny, Vicky. She started with my brother.

She must've been about 19 when she started. And she was our nanny like all the way through until we you know we left we left and then she carried on helping my mom um at that point we lived in like a bed and breakfast that my parents ran and she helped so she's just always been around and I genuinely did not know that there was like a stigma around that because um how are people meant to go back to work you know and don't get me wrong i i know that there's like um there's a big financial thing around child care and not everyone can afford it and yes i appreciate that but i got a nanny um because you know similar to you like i

don't get maternity leave i really want to work i felt like um i didn't want to like take my finger off the pulse i'd worked too hard in the the industry to feel like I was going to get replaced. So I found an amazing nanny. She still comes one day a week. She used to come two or three days a week. But because I was breastfeeding on demand, I couldn't send him away to nursery because he was feeding all the time. And that was really my only option. And yes, of course, I'd have preferred to have like spent the money on something else but that was it was really like work or have a nanny and I love the fact that you know he loves her like she really is part of the family like I love her and she saved my sanity she saved my my mentality she like allowed me like even like sometimes she just comes in and is like give me a hug. And she's amazing.

And I'm the same. I'm the same. I really, I over befriend everyone. And I'm like, I don't want, I just done an advert because as I said, my nanny's moving on. And the first line is, this isn't a nanny role. This is part of our family. Because I want to love this person. I want them to love my boys.

And I want them to feel part of this. It's not, because I've heard some crazy, the way people treat their nannies is kind of crazy. You know, they have to eat with the kids. They're not allowed to communicate with the parents. I think a lot of people feel pressured into having kids now because it's the thing to do. So some people do have them who certainly, you know, it wasn't their dream. They didn't want to do it. When their kids come, it's not the fulfilling role that they want. So then the nanny becomes that role. But for me, I love my kids more than everything in the world. But I also know that I need to find who I am. And I, like you, love working. I mean, I do get to work in the best job in the world. I'm in the mountains. I'm presenting and it makes me a better mum because they see me going out there. They see me

following my dreams. And they know that when I am there, I am super present. You know, I am not a hands-off mum. My dream is to make them laugh and giggle every single day. And I know that I can't do that all the time. So I try and make up for it when I'm away for the times that I'm present. And I think that it's only, it's taken me now, and you know, Cooper's three years old. It's taken me now to feel at peace with that because I do, I did feel judged. And it's so ridiculous because we need to empower other women to do what is right for them. I take my hats off to full-time mums because I couldn't do it. I genuinely couldn't do it. I couldn't put the whole part of me that

was before motherhood to the side and sacrifice every part of my being to be responsible for these little people. I couldn't do that. I would be terrible. I would harbour resentment. I would be bitter. So I feel like getting this equilibrium that so many of us want, but don't have the confidence and balls to charge after is really important. And that's why a nanny role is essential. It's so funny because I obviously realized the judgment around it once I started talking about my nanny. But it was also really important to me that I never pretended that I was doing it all because how can you do it all? And funnily enough, a really good friend of mine who doesn't have children, she sent me a screenshot the other day.

And somebody on Instagram was applying for a full time, putting a job out for a full time nanny role. And she messaged me saying, wow, what a lifestyle. And I was like, sorry, can you just clarify what you mean by a lifestyle like for the nanny? Or do you mean like for the mom? She was like, oh, well, it must be so nice to not look after your own kids. And so I was like, I'm just going to stop you there because I was like, actually, if she is able to and wants to for whatever reason,

like maybe because she has to work, maybe she has multiple kids and let's be real, like nursery is really expensive. So if you have multiple kids, actually a nanny might be the more cost-saving, you know, twins, for example. I said, isn't it funny that nobody would say to a dad, wow, what a lifestyle you get to live because you get to go to work and the mum stays at home. It's not considered a lifestyle. It's just presumed that if you're in a heterosexual relationship, that that is the woman's role.

So then the idea that having a nanny is a lifestyle and I was like you know it's this whole idea of ladies who lunch like I was actually quite looking forward I was like oh am I going to be that part I've not been a lady who lunches once yet I feel like in the time that I get on my own when either my nanny or he goes to the child minders like I have so much to do because I'm trying to squeeze all my work that I used to get to do in like six days into three so I'm like I said to her I promise you it's not much of a lifestyle it's not and like nobody puts that on the men no that's a massive I mean I'm so lucky my my other half he's he's he's championed me to go back to work and I mean when we had our

our first lucky two weeks later we were in the mountains and I remember the first day it was just such a stressful day I got the script and my brain was absolutely fried from struggling to breastfeed and I'd had his tongue I cut twice and I was just in a really big state and I was in Italy in Cortina in this beautiful place and I was supposed to be delivering this piece to camera off my heart I was like I can't even remember my name let alone the script and then Dougie's like I've got this babe you can do this so I left Lockie with him and Lockie pooed and weed on him within the and vomited in the first hour and he was just messaging me saying I've got this it's fine and then when I get back obviously you get the whole story but he literally was like I don't know what I'm doing but I'm going to

support you in this opportunity for you to go out there and try to regain a bit of who you were before. And actually him supporting me so quickly meant that I got so much confidence in myself very, very fast after both babies because I didn't lose my identity. See, that's amazing because I feel like I did lose my identity and maybe, you know, because it was lockdown. But how was it like going back to work after two weeks? I mean, when I think what I was like two weeks, I don't even think I'd put a top on at that point, to be honest. I don't think I put a top on for like six weeks. And I guess you must have been bleeding. I'm not sure how you gave birth. I'm not sure how you gave birth. But what was it like psychologically? Like was part of you thinking, I just want to be at home with my babies, but I feel like I don't have an option? I mean, actually, this is kind of crazy because it's not even a normal job. I had to ski. And I had my first labor, like everyone's first labor was quite disastrous. And I still had strong abs, like I had a six pack still from being a ski racer.

And every time I had a contraction, I had no control over these big meaty muscles. So Lockie's heart rate dropped to zero. And I had like internal monitors. And there was lots of talk about C-section. And I remember going, no, no, no, I can't have a C-section because I had this plan. I'm so stubborn. This is what athletes bring to the table, right? They've got a goal. They've got a plan. You can't waver off that plan. And I had that plan going into childbirth, which is stupid. Like I actually, I think having a childbirth plan is you have to have an idea of what you want, but I don't really agree with writing it down because so much has to be flexible and fluid with how you're feeling. And I remember hearing Dougie say about five months into my pregnancy, I heard him on the phone talking to a friend who'd just given birth.

And Doug's like, oh, well, Shemi won't need drugs because she's a nutter and she's really hard and she's got a high pain threshold. Now, he maintains he never said this, but I remembered that in labour, I was thinking about that going, he thinks I can do this without an epidural. I mustn't let him down. It's so ridiculous. And eventually I had to have an epidural because they had to calm my muscles down. Like I had no control of these meaty muscles pressing on this poor baby. So I had one. And then afterwards, really quickly, because I'm very honest, I said, Oh my gosh, are you disappointed in me? And you know, all he is is full with love and admiration he's just seen me go through this 18-hour journey of hell and he's like what do you mean and it's something I really wish I'd discussed with him beforehand because I think I may I must have made it up in my head it's so out of character to say that but I made it up in my head and then I because I'm an athlete I've gone right okay this is the expectation of me I'm going to to fight for this, whatever.

And it's so absolutely ridiculous. But yeah, so I had this, isn't that crazy? I was going to say, it's funny, isn't it? Because you're right. Before I went through childbirth, I mean, my mum said something similar, like I've got a high pain threshold. So, you know, I didn't need painkillers or whatever it was. And whenever I'd heard that people gave birth without drugs, so you know i didn't need um i didn't need painkillers or whatever it was and whenever

i'd heard that people gave birth about drugs i was like wow that's so brave like what heroes that's amazing and now i'm like isn't it it's a competition how crazy is it a competition you don't get a badge for like suffering and it's so weird and um i actually, I've talked about my birth before, but long story short, I didn't get pain relief, but I was begging for it. And eventually I got pethidine, I think in like hour 16. But I was really, I mean, I was begging for a C-section. I was begging. I was like, I was so desperate for pain relief

and it never came. So then when I said, you know, you announced the birth and whatever and i said it was 9.5 pounds and that's massive without drugs absolutely massive but everybody was like wow you're amazing doing that without doing that without drugs and i was like no no i'm i'm literally not a hero i'm just quite traumatized because like it was it was not a choice yeah and but yeah why do we it's a bit like somebody getting I don't know going to get their teeth pulled out but being like I'll veto the uh general anesthetic yeah I

mean you think they were crazy you would think they were crazy you think you're trying to this maniac that doesn't want to go down into general there's a reason we have painkillers but yeah so because I've got very I've got that similar story to you with my second. I was induced and then 40 minutes later, I had a baby. And I remember I was trying to have a water birth. And I was like, quick, can you turn the water on? They're like, no, no, we're just going to check, monitor you beforehand. And that was this beautiful room in Kingston Hospital. And they monitored me and they're like, oh, my God, we need to get you in a wheelchair.

This really annoyed me, actually. They get me in a wheelchair and you've got to go and have this baby right now. And I was like, no, no, no, I want the water buffer. Like you don't have time. You don't have time. And I was like, no, that's again, I was trying to control this situation where my body had full control of it. And my brain was going, no, this is my plan.

But again, I was just screaming for drugs. And they're like, we can see the baby's head. And I was like, no, no, no, no, I need drugs. And even after he came out, I was like, is there any painkillers I can have now? They're like, no, no I need drugs and even after he came out I was like is there any painkillers I can have now they're like no no you won't need them in a minute just give me drugs but the baby's here can I can I have them to take away just for fun or yeah you mentioned as well about birth plans so were you what was your birth plan like for Lachlan oh my god I had like enya CDs I I I spent a week looking at snacks I had the biggest I you

know how most people have a big bag they take in of clothes and things like that mine was full of food I'm not a very good hangry person so I'd done this and I'd like oh my god I spent so much money on like protein bars to sugar bars to I remember Werther's originals and I can't eat them now because I must have had I don't know how many Wer those originals I had um an oasis you know the the red oasis I also can't have that anymore because they were like oh your sugar levels below you've got to sip on this um but yeah so my my birth plan was um oh god I downloaded series to watch on ipads like I had magazines I had house and garden I did literally for 18 hours, I didn't do anything. Dougie gave me a running commentary of the outside of Kingston Hospital

because it was January the 13th. So basically I actually gave birth on Friday the 13th. And I remember I was two weeks late and he was due on the 1st and Dougie was away with work in Italy until the 8th. And I'd heard everyone say, oh, your first one, especially if it was a boy who was late. And I really, I like kept that in mind I was like it's okay and we'd made a plan that if

I went into labour Dougie would fly home it would be all be fine I didn't even have a spare a spare birthing partner a substitute birthing partner because I was so convinced that he would be there and he was like you're very relaxed for this um and uh anyway so then Dougie gets back on like the 8th of January and I'm like great baby can come but I think I'd put all this energy into the baby not coming because Dougie had to be there that um they were like right you're gonna have to be induced and the night before I was induced I had a trampoline I actually went on the trampoline I really must say to any of your listeners it's not the thing no one recommends it it did not work and it was very unpleasant but I

in my head like I said I've got these not work and it was very unpleasant but I in my head like I said I've got these crazy goals and I'm very stubborn so I tried to bounce the the process to start and it didn't work so then I was um that I was induced and and that was not my plan I didn't want to be induced I had you know visions of being this earth mom which is crazy because I don't know if you know actually but I've broken a lot of bones in my life and had loads of surgeries and you know under lots of general anesthetics. So to now suddenly become an earth mum because I don't want any drugs in my system is absolutely ridiculous. And it didn't turn out that way anyway.

But yeah, I had Enya CDs. I had water birth in there. And how did you actually end up giving birth? A vaginal birth in the end? Oh my God, stirrups. I had 1970s stirrups. And how did you actually end up giving birth? A vaginal birth in the end? Not C-section? Oh my God, stirrups. I had 1970 stirrups. I couldn't even move position because I had this internal monitor on his heart rate.

I was literally a vaginal birth and really old school. I bought in two fit balls. I had two of those big balls because I thought Dougie might want one and I could have one. Oh my God, it was just ridiculous, the amount of stuff I put in. To be balls because I thought Dougie might want one and I could have one oh my god it's just ridiculous the amount of stuff I took to be fair I took I did take a lot of stuff and I took loads of snacks because everybody said yeah download a series and take all the snacks and I was honestly in like constant pain not actually from the contractions I think it

was like just pelvic girdle pain not with a really big baby but I was in like constant pain and I I was not eating I was like puking like the thought of like eating or watching series I was not there yeah and um me neither it's it's so funny isn't it because I mean I I think I I was always quite chilled about my birth plan but I also expected things to happen if I wanted them um yeah did you feel when you got pregnant again, like about going into childbirth again? In what way was it different for you? It was quite interesting because I really struggled to get pregnant. We, sorry, really struggled to get pregnant with Lockie. It took us 18 months. I was addicted to caffeine.

So my body was in fight or flight for a long time and my adrenal glands were overworking. And so I started seeing people about fertility and I remember I was an incredible acupuncturist and I lay there and I remember it was the most relaxed I'd ever been. I had two days off work and he took all my vitals and he said, there's no way your body can get pregnant right now. It's trying to deal with this tension, stress and this high paced life that you're living. Because I basically quit from skiing 90 miles an hour and just substituted it with being unbelievably busy because I was so worried about who I would be without skiing. And then I was like, oh, I'm going to have a baby as well. So it was really he was amazing to me because he took me off caffeine.

And actually we ended up getting pregnant because I tore my ACL. So the cruciate in my knee and I had surgery and I had to stop. So it took us like 18, 19 months to get pregnant with Lockie. And then with Cooper, we were like, oh, you know, let's start trying

because it might take a long, long time. And it was the first time we tried to have another baby push your peak is a brand new podcast brought to you by what bike join me louise minchin and some of the world's most incredible sports people to learn what it takes mentally and physically to push yourself beyond your limits. Whether you're an elite or everyday athlete, it can be hard to continually progress. How do you push yourself out of your comfort zone? Where do you go to find that inner drive? Tune in to hear these inspiring stories and take away the belief that you can achieve your own goals, no matter how big or small you can find us wherever you got this podcast just search push your peak i read that you'd had um fertility acupuncture how how does that how does it work yeah i think

i think it's just based on your system working as a whole as efficiently as it can so you can allow your your body to be open to being pregnant i do do have to say this, I'm not sure I should say this, but I think part of the reason it works is because the man is so beautiful. Like he's not single or anything, but he is so good looking that these women go into a room with him. And I think he's just this kind of God, but he's got this unbelievably relaxed tone. I mean, and it worked for me. And he was actually the guy who told me I was pregnant because I was still going to him. And I kept having these negative pregnancy tests every month because that's what I found really challenging again you know trying to force everything to

happen and having goals in my life I our first ovulation month I've decided we were going to have a baby I booked a holiday to Bali um and I was like right we're going to get pregnant because there's never a time where we relax this much and can spend enough time getting on this much. And then we didn't get pregnant. And every month, the same signs as you're, you know, you're about to have your period are early pregnancy. So I used to get my hopes up. I'm a very positive person, which is great in the in the bigger picture. But every month I thought I was pregnant and then it's like, oh, I'm not. I'm not. And then on the month I last month I went to see this acupuncturist I was like oh I've just had a negative test and I was quite down

um and he took all my votes he's like are you sure you you know I can feel a different energy in your body and I'm getting different system reactions um and I was like no I'm sure I'm sure like you know don't and he but he kept quizzing me and then anyway I I suppressed this because I didn't want to disappoint myself by doing another pregnancy test for about four nights. And then I did one and I was pregnant. Oh, wow. It sounds weird, but just knowing that we were both compatible. And that's something that I say to friends now who are just starting out on their fertility journey. I'm like, go and get a test straight away if you can afford it to know that

you're both okay so that you can relax. Because 18 months we started to think i'm five years older than dougie and i started to fit and i've had all these surgeries so i genuinely was like oh my gosh this is something to do with me um or we're not compatible or you know crazy things start going on your head so i always say if you if you know that if you can tick both those boxes saying look you're great your your eggs are great and my sperm's great. We're going to be fine. We just need to be relaxed about it. I think it would be an easier, that's why, you know, second pregnancies is you kind of know, you know, you're going to get pregnant if you've got pregnant before, you know, you can, you know, you can, sorry. How did you navigate pregnancy

having like tried for so long to be pregnant, if you don't mind me asking because um I imagine it must be when you've been on a fertility journey it must be like were you like were you very anxious I loved it no I loved it I was no I as I said I'm a really positive person so I never thought about the other side and the dangers or you know anything like that my body rejecting it I I just loved it I embraced every part of it I was that person who showed off their bump all the time I annoyingly held my bump all the time I was just I have never this is a very strange thing having been in a sport that's all about strength and going to the gym and having a certain body type but I've never

been more confident with my body than when I was pregnant I absolutely loved it like having this unearthly feeling that you're growing something especially when you can feel the baby kicking I was just like this is unbelievable I absolutely have to say the same I think like first trimester I found it a bit hard because you just feel a bit like well I've at least felt like yeah where's this like belly you always see like everyone with their beautiful bellies and i just had like a couple of rolls and i was like well this is sad um but then yeah like second trimester i i genuinely think i've never felt as modest like and empowered yeah in trimester i would love to be a permanent state of second trimester me Me too. I'm the same as well, because you just feel like you're giving your body over

to a bigger purpose and it doesn't matter what people think of you. I don't know. I felt, yeah, I felt really confident, really empowered. You mentioned being an athlete and obviously kind of having an expectation or pressure, I guess, to look a certain way or at least perform a certain way. What was the postnatal period like for you in terms of body image? The first time, actually, I was really good. I was in such survival mode with Lockie being a newborn, having no clue. We didn't have a house. We'd not the first. We had a massive house project. And because of planning permission being delayed, we knocked our first brick down the day after Lockie was born. So we lived with friends for one for the first year of his life, which was just mental, you know, people inviting us to stay, taking care of us.

And actually, it was quite amazing because one of the first family we went to, they had three kids and they were all excited about this baby. So I had so much like support with them. Oh, what amazing friends as well to like welcome in a family with a newborn. Oh my God, I know. I know. I know. It was really, really lucky. But as I was in survival mode, and I didn't want to start being addicted to caffeine again because I was breastfeeding and I knew the health risks there. I just ate sugar ate sugar actually I literally was skiing and I would eat sugar like whatever I saw I remember being in Sweden they have the most amazing cakes I would just eat it and I just ate and ate and ate I didn't care I like I didn't care how I looked in the mirror I never judged myself which is quite amazing at that period at that period and then we got pregnant again so I

didn't do any kind of diet or anything then we got pregnant again so I didn't do any kind of diet or anything then we got pregnant again and I kind of did the same with Cooper I went into this like right I need what I need and then I remember when Cooper was about six months old I finished the winter um and it was the first time that I looked in the mirror and I was like right I'm kind of a bit disgusted with my reflection like I know it's it's made these two incredibly healthy, happy boys, but I'm losing myself behind, behind being bigger than my natural body type. And also I started to feel lots of pain in my knees again. So I was, I was about 83 kilos. So my, my fighting weight is about 69 kilos. And after Cooper, six months after him, I was 83 kilos. So I had all this extra weight on my knees, which I've had surgery on and I was feeling pain and I was 83 kilos. So I had all this extra weight on my knees,

which I've had surgery on and I was feeling pain and I was quite low in myself. And I reached out to a friend of mine, a raw fitness girl, who's Sarah Lindsay. I've been to a couple of Olympics with her and she does these kind of transformations. And I spoke to her and I said, look, I am really low in confidence. I need you to help me. And that's the first time where I actually, really low in confidence I needed to help me and that's the first time where I actually you know got my vanity back I guess and got my uh not self-respect not a self-respect because my self-respect was coming from far deeper level than how I looked which I'm really proud of actually um but she really helped me get myself back and that was quite hard to lose that weight because I was still breastfeeding and I actually cut too many calories too quickly the first month and my milk depreciated and its quality got worse.

So I realized there was kind of a happy medium that I couldn't get back to where I wanted to as quickly. And I took the journey slower, but I did get there within a few months. And that's when I kind of got back to me again. I didn't push it after Lockie at all because I I knew I wanted more than one it's so interesting to me because obviously like you come from um a background of being an athlete so your your body and knowing your weight for performance and stuff is obviously like something that was really important whereas I don't own scales and I really like strongly believe for myself that like there's no point

in owning scales because like at the end of the day what what does it tell you you know I'm not an athlete and um for me it's like a feeling and I think we can get so caught up especially in that postnatal period because you know suddenly everything's starting to like deflate and you know your body's just I mean you're producing milk you're bleeding it's just not a very like sexy time at all is it and you're in survival mode and you're trying to adapt to this new life but for me it's always been a feeling rather than a size or a number um but i think it's so easy to get caught up in looking at pictures of how you looked in the past and being like i wish i if i look like that again i'll'll be happy. But for me, I was like, was I happy at that time? Because if I wasn't, that tells me that it's actually got

nothing to do with my body and everything to do with my mindset. Because, you know, I feel like, well, you know, I'll probably look back at how I look now and think, wow, what did I worry about? And probably when I'm 40 and I'll look back when I'm 60, I look back at me when I was 40. So I really, really try to get into this reminder for myself that it's not a number or a size. It's very much a few things. And that can mean so many different things for people. Yeah, I mean, I definitely have that. Athletes tend to be incredibly self-aware. Yeah, I mean, I definitely have that. Athletes tend to be incredibly self-aware. I mean, my 25 years of my life, every morning I woke up and had to tick a chart of how I was feeling, what I was weighing, what hydration my say it's like you said do I feel confident enough to to own a bikini and wear a bikini and for me I can even though I've got cellulite and everything because

I've got two kids and I walk around with two kids and I'm like you know they they are a part of me now and it everyone can see where they've come from so I I just think you you have a lot more respect for your body after you've given birth because it's the most wonderful thing that that any bodies can ever do that you you have to give it um a lot of time and a lot of love and if you can love yourself regardless of what you you know what so social media is brutal with this because you get so caught up and you are an amazing role model for this actually you get so caught up and you are an amazing role model for this, actually. You get so caught up with these famous people who, you know, drop 10 sizes straight away. Well, if you're doing that, the likelihood is you can't breastfeed.

And if that's your goal of yours, then you need to rid of that. Because if you're dropping calories that quickly, it does, like I found out, affect your milk supply. Also, you know, they have all this help around them they have gyms at home when their baby's sleeping they don't go out of the house to the gym they've got it right there so I think it is really hard for for new mums especially first-time mums to to feel and be themselves and love themselves and all you need to do is look at your baby and go I have done that you've grown that for me that was that was key and also like for me it's realizing as well that like your bones don't even move back into place for like a year or you know at least like 10 months so like you can do all this crazy

stuff but actually like your body will shift as it's meant to like that is and it's interesting isn't it like what you're saying about comparing yourself to like celebrities and i actually hate the policing of women's bodies and like the terms of bouncing back because you know as we all know listening to this podcast i imagine like that the postnatal journey like god weight and appearance is like i mean i don't even think it's the tip of the iceberg because i don't even think it should be a factor at all. Like you are recovering from major surgery. And this idea of like the tabloids and really like stoke, like what's the word? Stoke the flames. Because whether it's Emily can't ever say her surname Ratajkowski or whether it's,

I think recently I saw Rosie Huntington-Whiteley. It's always, Rosie Huntington-Whiteley steps out showcasing her postnatal figure just six weeks after giving birth. And they always put that time. And what that tells us is number one, like the most important thing about them stepping outside is not their health, is not whether they have piles or prolapse or their mental health is okay it's like look at them they wow clap clap clap they look like they haven't had a baby and it puts this like inner pressure on all of us that we're gonna be judged we will be judged i actually i even had that in um in pregnancy i remember uh with locky it's my

first pregnancy and i was like five months pregnant and I was lifting weights in the gym, a really, really lovely gym. And this guy comes over who had never seen before and said, you shouldn't be doing that. He didn't say in your condition, but he was implying in my condition of being pregnant. I hope you were like, listen, mate, I am Britain's top female downhill skier. I'm a four-time winter Olympian. I really bloody wish I had. And it's one of the big resentments, not resentments,

but I had this weakness at the time where I, for a moment, I put the weights down. I was like, you're right, you're right. And I walked away. And then I had the confidence. I went on, I stopped lifting weights, went on cross trainer. And I was like, no, you know what? Go over to him, talk to him.

And I went over and i said sorry um are you have you got a scientific background in in uh training whilst being pregnant or anything like that he's like no and i'm like are you a dad he's like no and i was like well okay here's the stat you are allowed to do things that you've done before so you don't know but i've lifted weights like double this my whole life but you wouldn't know that and you're just judging me on who I am. And it's taken me as a very confident person to come over here and say this to you. If you did this to other women, you might take training away from them during pregnancy, which is the only healthy thing that they're doing for themselves that helps them sleep in a time where you can't sleep when you're pregnant. So you need to think about what you're saying.

I was really proud of myself afterwards actually but I did let him but I did I did let him take that session away from me that day but not again but I did change my this is actually quite important people I did or what I I find it really helpful because obviously my my first labor I I think I had too much muscle and not enough control so during my second pregnancy I substituted weights I did loads more pilates but I learned about my inner core and control um and my pregnancy was much easier but more than that my my um my stomach knitted together way quicker the second time and I really put that down to all the pilates that I did and I think um professionals if you can afford it obviously I know it's expensive but now everything is on YouTube as well.

Professionals who do pregnancy Pilates are amazing for supporting your body through that growing stage. I can absolutely say that I did not have too much muscle during my pregnancy. But I was also told in my recovery to do pilates as well um so yeah I can I can second that and I I do love that I I mean I'm I'm always a bit shit with exercise to be honest I'm okay but um I I do really enjoy like doing pilates when I can and I normally do it in the house just well that's perfect you find something you enjoy and that's that's the thing with exercise it's it's kind of a very un you find something you enjoy and that's the thing with exercise it's it's kind of a very unsexy word but it's it's being creative and doing something

for you and it doesn't have to be a physical thing it's just something where you give your time over to make yourself feel better at the end of you know 10 20 whatever minutes it is you can put aside yourself um i really want to end on because I feel like we did like a really nice circle of this idea of like, why it's so important to be transparent about things, whether that's having childcare or having personal trainers, you know, we're talking about celebrities

and the fact that they, you know, they have access to things that, you know, us mere mortals, or, you know, don't have access to. And I feel lucky, you know, I have access to things that other people won't. But it's the idea that if we pretend that we're doing it all ourselves. It's a lie. It is a lie. But also we're allowed to be honest without facing backlash,

because I think that's why people are afraid to be honest about things. And also, I guess nobody owes anybody their truth. But I just think it would be so much nicer if we could just own it and support each other. But I've loved listening to your story. I feel like I could talk to you about so much more. Oh, it's been so good. And I love this. I'm all about empowering women, whether that's motherhood, whether that's motherhood whether that's profession

whether that's taking more risks and you know learning from failure i i think it's really really important we are all incredibly wonderful individual people um who are going out there on really challenging journeys um whatever walk of life you're from so i think motherhood is the ultimate challenge for me i mean i chose to be a downhill skier from london and that was a piece of piss compared to motherhood so you, you know, I think we have to support each other and be there for each other. I'd love actually to know that if you're listening, do you judge people that have nannies or did you before motherhood? Because I've realised, I figured it out. I think I would be a really good dad because I would love just to be able

to go to work and also be told all the time that I'm really hands-on and that I'm such a great person for doing my little bit of babysitting on the side that gets me when dads say oh I'm on I'm on childcare duty today I'm babysitting I'm like you're not no no you you're a dad that's not no you're just being a dad that isn't babysitting yeah please please let me know what judgments that you either still have. Like this is an open place, like either that you still have or that you had before you became a parent. I always love to hear from you.

And actually before I go, I just want to share this message from Hayley. She got in touch to say, I just want to thank you for the episode with Kate Lawler. I too get so much comfort from hearing people talk about this out loud. My boys are three and nine now and I felt this way both times I had some really dark some very very dark times very

dark thoughts postnatal depression and something I never hear people talk about postnatal rage I had suicidal thoughts throughout it I was very similar in that I did not feel overly maternal before having children and I assumed that having the babies would bring nothing but love and happiness and it didn't not to begin with I missed before. Felt like I'd made a huge mistake. Bringing these topics to the mainstream and making it normal is just brilliant. And I know it's not an easy topic to talk about. Thank you so much. By the way, I, too, am loving motherhood now. From the age of one, both times, things got so much easier. And I can't imagine life without the boys now.

I hope that gives people, anyone that listening like feeling you know that they are going through it that there is definitely light at the end of the tunnel and like I I'm really really happy that I got to have the conversation with Kate and I'm really happy that I got to have the conversation with you as well Shemi like thank you so much especially from your hotel in um Austria oh thank you so much for having me and keep up all this amazing community positive and uh you know support network that you've provided for so many months thank you and thanks to all of you guys for listening to mums the word the parenting podcast don't forget to share subscribe follow all of the above and so you never miss an episode and i'll see you same time same place next week