Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Gemma Atkinson

Episode Date: April 4, 2022

Actress, influencer and mum to Mia, Gemma Atkinson joins us on the show this week to chat about her traumatic birth, taking advice from people and an inside look on her womens health cover shoot. We answer a question from one of our lovely listener on making friends when you are one of the first in the circle to have a baby, and Ashley and Gemma discuss the pressure on womens bodies pre and post birth!Get in touch with us with your questions, thoughts and feedback at [e-mail]-------------A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm really really really excited about today's guest and I know that you will be as well I feel like she is one of the OG mum influencers that I think of she's also an actress a radio presenter I feel like if teenage Ashley knew that I was going to be talking to you, she'd be like really fangirling as well. She's gone strictly in 2017 and arguably her most important role is that she is a mum to two-year-old Mia. It is Gemma Atkinson. What a lovely intro. Thank you, Ashley. I was such a Hollyoaks fan back in the day. So I feel like I really like all the memories that I have.

Sorry to go straight in with Hollyoaks, but of all the memories that I have, it's you, Ali Bastian, who's been a podcast guest and is a friend. And was it Justin? I can't even, Chris? Yes. Oh my gosh, yes. Yeah, Chris Fountain. Was he your boyfriend? Anyway, I remember that storyline wow how are you i'm well thank you yeah really well i'm manic but in a good way it's kind of organized chaos isn't it i guess just kind of roll with it get on with it and appreciate it all

we'll try to yeah i feel like i'm particularly excited to speak to you because obviously me is two now so a year and a half older than elf but i always like to speak to you because obviously Mia's two now so a year and a half older than Alf but I always like to speak to someone slightly ahead of the journey because it gives me a bit of an idea about what is ahead but before I speak to you about like now I thought we could rewind back to the very beginning because obviously it's called Mums the Word and I talk a lot about being a new mum and particularly that first year of motherhood. I read that you actually never really thought about being a mum until you met Gawker. I was happy at being a dog mum. Yeah, genuinely.

I thought I'd be on my own with about 10 dogs and I was quite excited for that. I found a shift in people when I turned 30. There was a whole kind of they'd approach it with a head tilt and are you on your own and I used to say yeah why I'm I'm it's by choice you know I'm not I'm not going to be with someone just because I'm 30 so I think there was the pressure who started about motherhood from age 30 but it wasn't until yeah I met Gorka that I thought wow I could really picture a little family with him. How old were you when you became a mum? I was 34. And it's funny because I still didn't really feel old enough in my head.

I think it's kind of like as soon as I had Mia, I was like, oh, gosh, I'm the adult now. Because in situations when something goes wrong, I look for the adult. Whereas now that's me. I'm the person who has to take charge. I find that especially when I'm ill. I'm like, could someone come and pick up this child so I get to lie in bed and I'm like wait I still I still have to be the adult and even in this situation but I'm ill I know I need a Netflix day but you still have to parent it's crazy but yeah it's bizarre it's it shocked me

how it's not that every moment's been easy being a mum, but it's been natural to me, which was a shock to me because like I say, I was very much cool with being on my own, lots of dogs, chilling out with the girls, no responsibility. I was fine like that. Whereas now I feel like Mia's been here all the time.

I don't know what I did without her. It's strange. Did you, did you feel like that maternal instinct kicked in straight away, like from the moment that you were pregnant? Or did you feel that it was when she was born? Or how was that sort of first year of like dealing with becoming a mum and that mum identity that we kind of talk about a lot? It was kind of the first thing that kicked in when I found out I was pregnant

was worry. I was worried sick that I remember going into a submission mode of my body thinking okay you've you know done all these crazy things you've been on the great wall of china you swam with sharks bungee jump you can deadlift this amount in the gym please please how's this little human for me because I know how you know it's it's such a so easy for people to say oh yeah I had a baby after two months I had a baby after three weeks I had and I'm very much aware that for some women it's a huge huge achievement because they've been trying for so long they were told they couldn't do it so the minute for us I mean it took me and Gorka around three months which I know is extremely very

lucky but as soon as I found out I was pregnant I had this fear of anything could go wrong because I've never been pregnant before I was scared to death of could I continue with my training could I still have coffee you know little things that I never even considered and the first 12 weeks I found the most awkward because obviously technically they say you're not supposed to tell anyone through you through the safe zone and that whole world the whole word safe zone for me for 12 weeks I kept thinking what if I have this scan and there's nothing there you know you just you don't know what the outcome is so it was worry instinctively and then did you tell anyone within within those 12 weeks I told my mum and my sister and my sister burst into tears she was

thrilled she's got three children but I mean the youngest is 18 so they're adults now but she she burst into tears but yes as soon as we got past the 12 weeks and we were told she was okay then I was like oh relief and then it dawned on me driving home from that scan how protective and worried I was of some little thing that I've never even met or felt or anything yet it was just a case of oh wow that's kind of the start of motherhood then constantly worried and I read something the other day it said parents they don't sleep they're just worried with their eyes shut and I thought that's true as well this is is my life now, just constant worry for my child. Do you feel like the worry has got less now that you've eased into motherhood? Or do you feel like

there's just lots of new challenges and new things to worry about? I think it's definitely got less whereby, like the first four or five months I was panicking about because she was a tiny meal, she was only four pound 10. So things like wiping her eyes, boiling water on a cotton pad and also delicate. Whereas now it's just like a flannel straight on there. It doesn't matter where it's been, we're washing her face.

And, and things like, you know, if, if she falls over, it used to be kind of, Oh, I hope she doesn't fall in this and that. Whereas now I'm like, well,

she'll only do it once. Cause if I've told her not to climb on the chair and she falls off it, she'll know that's why I was telling her. So I've kind of eased into things that way, but it's now little things like today I've dropped her in toddlers and they said, Oh, we have to let you know, there's a sickness and diarrhea book going around and chicken pox. So I first, I just thought, Oh oh I don't want to get sickness and

diarrhea you know I don't chickenpox is fine she can have that as a little one because you know it's kind of good for them to have it when they're young but it's then I'm now spending today thinking they're going to ring me and say she's been sick you know it's that whole kind of I think with each age stage it's such a wonderful new experience. And then every now and again, you think, oh, well, now I've got this to worry about. And, you know, it's kind of like a wonderful, chaotic world, I think, being a parent. It's interesting because Alf goes to the Childminders

a couple of days a week now, and she said the same to me last week, like, oh, by the way, there's a girl here I've just noticed. She's got like a couple of spots. It might be chicken pox. And I was a bit like bit like well get rid of her like what's she doing and she was like no no but it's fine for him to get it but i think that you know especially as a lockdown mom we weren't mixing at all so alf didn't really have any sort of sicknesses or bugs or anything and so now i feel like i'm being like thrust back into this sort of normal world where you are just having it.

And everyone's like, oh, it's fine. It's just chicken pox. But I feel like it terrifies me because when I had chicken pox, my brother picked them all off and put them in his toy trailer and like. It's disgusting, isn't it? But yeah, it is just like new worries that you don't have to think about. Yeah. So what was the rest of pregnancy like? You obviously mentioned that Mir was like a teeny teeny little baby I know that you had to have an emergency c-section which I want to talk to you about as well but was there any sign throughout your pregnancy that you needed to be worried about her size or I got I got a few water infections during pregnancy and I had to take two courses of antibiotics and that was really difficult for me because obviously modern day medicine is fantastic but all I could think was anything I'm putting in my body

is going into Mia so I didn't want to keep loading myself with these antibiotics and I kept asking will it be okay for her is it fine for her and they kept saying yeah don't worry about it but I was told throughout my whole pregnancy that Mia was a big baby because I put on three stone. And I was told at all the scans, yep, she's measuring well, she's nice and big. So when she came out four pound ten, I was like, what the hell is three stone? It's clearly just pizza and pasta in the middle of it all. But no, there was no kind of concerns really as to why it should have gone the way it did. In my head, head I you know we booked in to have a water birth and it was at a clinic whereby there was no kind of doctors or

nurses it was kind of a natural birth that I was after and um my mum said from day one you can't plan a birth she said because your baby will come when your baby's ready and she said I hate it how they give you a date because then you can constantly thinking at the late or early she said they should just say your baby's coming in July sometime in July you'll have a baby and she did she came on the 4th of July and that the nurses gave me the 16th I think 16th of July so then I was like oh she's tiny because she's early. But they said, no, she's just a tiny, tiny baby. That's just how she was. It's funny, isn't it? The due date, because even though I knew they don't always come on the due date, Alf was two weeks late and actually a 9.5 pound baby. So like the total opposite to you.

I had no idea that he was going to be such a chunk. And when he was born, there was no vernix or white stuff left on him. And they actually think they got my due date wrong. And he was actually three, well, almost like past two weeks late as opposed to just two weeks late. And so I felt like I almost missed the newborn period in a way. Obviously, I had the newborn period in my own self of getting used to being a mum. But I felt like I just had

this like no skin about gosh nine pound yeah but it's funny though my my nephew Tyler he's 21 now he was massive he looked like he had little elastic bands around his arms because of all these little rolls and I remember feeling so much more comfortable handling him changing his nappy putting him on my shoulder with it with me being so little I was scared to death of it because you could literally hold it like that in your hands and I was like oh my gosh what if I drop her or you know accidentally break her ankle when I'm putting her socks on and it was because I'm you know I'm five nine I've got massive hands I broad. I was kind of expecting my baby to be the same. So it was kind of odd being so delicate around this little,

little tiny being. So what was your birth story? You obviously said that you wanted a home birth, sorry, not home birth, a water birth. So what happened and then what kind of care were you given for Mia the fact that she was so small like did she have to stay in um hospital or what was the what was your journey well we my waters broke on the second and I was at home on my own and Gorka was on tour and so I rang my mum straight away because I knew he'd be on stage and I didn't want to he still had the second act

to go and I thought I don't want to ruin tell him and he'd ruin the show for everyone because he'll be just thinking about me so I told my mum and she luckily lived 10 minutes away and she came up and she said well we'll just you know ring the hospital see what they say and they basically said to me to stay at home until I start getting my contractions and because they said without them there's no point nothing's going to happen and it was a good like six or seven hours nothing had happened so I'm back at this point yeah and Norman and Ollie as well that the two dogs wouldn't leave my side bless them and by this point Gorka had come home as well because he was only performing in Liverpool so we drove from Liverpool to Manchester.

And I remember saying to him, do not worry. Don't drive like a maniac because I'm fine. It's just the floor's wet, but it's fine. We're sorting it. Don't worry. And then when I went up to see them, they did all the checks and stuff. And they said, oh, she's just go home. And then if nothing happens, come back again.

And it was actually I was sat at home and it was a good it was the next day at this point and there was still nothing and the lady who'd done my hypnobirthing Beverly she's lovely she called me up to see how I was and I told her and it was actually her she said to me so you've gone 12 hours with your water's broken no one's done anything and I said no they just said to come back when my contractions start and obviously obviously because i'd never been through it before i didn't realize the risk of infection or anything like that and she said to me she said if i were you i'd go to the hospital she said don't go to the place where you meant to they want to have her go to the hospital so thank god she did because

as soon as i got there and told them they were like okay let's get you in and they attached a like little belt to my stomach and they said every time Mia kicks we want you to click a little it was like a little ballpoint pen so I was doing that and every time I felt a move in and they were monitoring a heart rate and then they they said well induce you they gave me a sweep but again nothing happened so there was literally nothing I didn't feel like I was in labor at any stage. I remember I was walking around the board, doing all kinds of stuff. And then a lady came in and she noticed that the clicks on the pen had got quite less, or bigger gaps between them.

And she said, well, maybe to another ward. And we're going to induce you with, it's like an intravenal intravenal drip and she said that really kickstarts your labor she's very intense it's a lot more painful than what it would have been but it's quick and you'll you'll have your baby so i said okay so they put the injection in the liquid went in and i had one contraction and i remember it was like being kicked i used to do Thai boxing and I was like, oh, and I felt like I'd been kicked in the tummy. And the midwife looked at this monitor and I saw her face change and I thought, okay, something's not right.

And then she said to me, Mia's heart rate dropped dramatically. We need to get her out. We're going to have to do an emergency C-section. So she pressed this red button and everyone came in. They were amazing, the staff at the hospital um took me through to my c-foot to have my c-section so by then my mum and gawker were both a bit panicky and then when i was having my c-section i was all i was nice and calm with all of that to be honest i was that okay it's fine um it was only when i was sat on the edge of the bed

having me a pejoral the hospital handed me a clipboard and it was my consent I was sat on the edge of the bed having my epidural, the hospital handed me a clipboard, and it was my consent to give a blood transfusion should I need one, and what I want to happen to Mia. And that's when I started thinking, oh, my God, this is actually quite serious, because they're essentially saying, if this goes wrong, you need to sign here. And I remember saying to the doctor, am I going to be okay? Will this be okay? And she said, yeah, let's just do your epidural.ural and she laid me down and the epidural hadn't kicked in

and the surgeon said we need to move now so she said to me we're going to have to put you to sleep and I remember saying please I really don't want to be asleep and that's when I started getting quite upset because when you're asleep your partner can't come in and I just had this I don't know why it sounds silly I didn't want Mia to be born and not be given back to me at that moment I feel like that's a fair affair I was thinking what if what if she's born I'm asleep but dad's not in the room I could get another baby back which is so dramatic but it went through my head anyway they give me more to put more in and it finally worked goper could come in in his scrubs um so i had me a c-section all fine and then about an hour or so later i had a hemorrhage um and i had quite a lot of bleeding um so again the surgeons had to come

in what did that feel like at the time like did you feel uncomfortable after the c-section or yeah because i'd had the seat because i had the epidural i was numb so i couldn't feel the blood you're like normally when you have a period you know it sounds rank but you'll be stood there you'll go oh some periods just come out i didn't feel anything like that at all um i just kind of remember feeling really really faint and i was like oh my god I feel really ill and then Gawker kind of moved the bed in and it was just blood and he was like oh my god I'm gonna go and get help he went and got a lady um they came in they were massaging my stomach and the doctor came out to my face and he was saying to me don't worry you're gonna be okay you're just

bleeding we're gonna try and stop it um and I looked around the go and he was sat with his head in his hands with a nurse rubbing his back I thought oh my god bless him he was like worried sick he described it as like a formula one pit stop he said it was just manic but then they stopped the bleeding and by this point I was like I'd gone and I woke up in another ward with a lovely lovely nurse who was fit in my catheter and I started violently being sick then and she said to me oh it's your anti-sickness medicine don't worry and I was like anti-sickness it's making me really sick and she said it'll kick in it's fine and then I stayed in for it was five nights in total so were you with her at this point yeah she was in a little incubator next to me and I remember when I woke up that's the first thing I did was I looked around the room straight

away just to find her um and she was literally next to me fast asleep as if nothing had happened she was looking so peaceful um and obviously she had no idea what you know what had just taken place bless her and she she was absolutely fine obviously when there was all that commotion going on around you but when she came out they were obviously worried about heart rate had the emergency section was she fine straight away or it's odd i mean she was born on independence day so i always say she's a very strong independent woman but they they said they were shocked at how quickly she came on because normally with little babies, they have to go into the little ICU,

you know, the baby care ward and stuff. But she was 4 pound 10. So they said if she'd have been around 4 or 5, then they have to. But they said, well, see how she goes on with your feeding and stuff. And literally now, I mean, to look at her, she's really, really tall for her age. And she's so kind of clever and, you know, she's quite advanced with things. And I always look back to that one time in the hospital where they were fearful that she might not develop properly. And I just think, oh, she's proved everyone wrong, which I absolutely love.

Amazing as well. Like, yeah, I feel like you just never know at the beginning do you and I feel like that's what makes pregnancy so exciting and scary and why I love hearing people's birth stories um just because everyone just seems to have this like really unique experience and that's one thing that I find with like especially the first year of motherhood as well, suddenly you have everyone's advice. Some of it is quite helpful, I'll admit, but a lot of it is quite anxiety-inducing. And there's a lot of unsolicited advice and people putting their own experiences on you. And actually, we all have our own very unique experiences and timelines and also highs and lows. I feel like some things that people find really

easy, other people find really challenging. How did you navigate? I know that you're really honest on social media, which is why you've got such a big platform around motherhood. You're seen as a mom influencer. How did you navigate both pregnancy and then obviously that new stage of motherhood um with being open and with trying to deal with trolls I just kind of are always at the forefront of my mind was what's best for me and Mia um because it's the whole kind of putting your life jacket on first then you know and I used to think if I'm in a good headspace mentally it's ultimately Mia who's going to suffer and why should she suffer because of somebody on the internet who's told me I'm doing a bad job um I just thought I'm not going

to let them have that impact and effect on me and I think I know a lot of people you know they don't have their mums and I know my my dad passed away when I was very young but the one person I knew I could get the advice from was my mum because to me she's the best mum in the world and she's got me and my sister my sister's got three children um so I just kind of stuck to what they knew and thought well me and my sister have turned out okay so you know I can I can ask my mum and I remember the first time I bathed uh Mia I didn't really know what to do my sister was like well support her head with your hand and rest her like this. And then, yeah, that's right.

And they were like coaxing me through it. And she was so tiny. She was like a little chicken. And my mum filmed it for us. So we've got that. And it's just something really nice. Like my sister and my mum teaching me how to bath my little girl. It's kind of passing the baton down um but I just tried I

mean I did get a lot of criticism there was one one time I took her out in the papoose for a walk and I remember it was like the first walk I'd been on so I was a little bit nervous and you know being outside and I was thinking well even like I remember a bus went past and I thought oh I hope my little ears are okay. And she didn't even move. She was fine. And we put a lovely picture on Instagram with us walking and someone commented saying she was far too little for the papoose and it was very dangerous of me and I could have dropped her

and all this stuff. And the size, you know, I actually, that person actually made me go to the papoose and I looked at the label and I thought, are they right? And I remember flipping the label and I was thinking they're not right she's the perfect size for the papoose um and for that split second I thought gosh that that person made me question that lovely walk we've just had and I don't even know who they are so I just made a pact with myself and with Mia you know I remember she was fast asleep. I remember saying to her, I'm never going to let a stranger's opinion affect our little bubble and our little relationship. Because what we've got and the bond we've got is far beyond some troll on the Internet. It's funny, isn't it?

I wonder what it is that makes people tell you that what you're doing is wrong. And do you feel like you've been able to stick to that because I always say I'm not going to let anyone bother me but then when I read something especially if I'm having like a really bad day and someone basically tells me that I'm a terrible mum or that I'm going to cause Alf to like suffocate I'm a bit like oh my god but how do you rise above the sort of unsolicited advice? I always think I don't know if it's being a mum now, but I kind of feel sorry for them kind of people. I always think hurt people hurt people.

And for them to actively be online as an adult, giving people shit over motherhood, I think what kind of upbringing have you had? You know, their experiences probably weren't the best. Maybe they're struggling. So I just think, I mean, sometimes I have a good laugh because sometimes I get some stuff and I have to read it out or send it to the girls in the group and we just like laugh our heads off at it.

But it's just great that you've got a block button now. And I just think it's easier to block them out of your life. You know, they don't need to be in your life. They don't need to have an impact on you. And I'm just, I'm too now to to give it the time you know it's kind of again it might be an age thing because it used to affect me a lot I used to want to try and please everyone and if I post something and someone say well that would offend me I think oh gosh I feel really bad for doing that and then I now I think well no I don't feel bad

because what would offend you could not offend me what we want like the same foods we want like the same films people have different opinions and there's that old saying like opinions are like assholes everyone's got one but you don't want to see everyone's so it's that whole thing of you know you have to do what's right for you and your family. And it's not being selfish. It's a necessity, especially if you want to pass on healthy habits, you know, and a good mental mind frame to your little one. Somebody told me something that's really stuck with me that, and they told it to me for motherhood, but I feel like it can apply to all walks of life.

But it says have an opinion filter. So decide, like you said, you know that you'll take advice from your mum because you trust her and she raised you and you know that you'll take advice from your mom because you trust her and she raised you and you're really close with her but no matter what it is whether it's people passing comments on like your age and your relationship status or whatever it may be like if you have an opinion filter only let the people's opinions that matter come through and everyone else just like block them out yeah it's that whole if they don't know you personally don't take it personal.

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Just search Push Your Peak. What was your first year like with being a mum? I always find it really interesting, like I mentioned, learning people's timelines because I feel like some people love the beginning stage, some people don't, some people struggle with this, some people struggle with that. I know that you spoke openly about, for example example giving up breastfeeding at nine weeks I think and

like the kind of um judgment and criticism that you faced around that so um yeah what was year one um Gemma the mum like it was it flew by everyone said it goes quick and I remember at three months I was thinking it's not going quick at all but it had it went really quick um and again it was just kind of for the first 16 weeks um so the fact the first four months we were just at home in our little bubble anyway we went out in the garden but we didn't really do much and I loved it because you won't ever get them times back again so in in the build up to maternity leave, I remember thinking, gosh, I've never been more than a month without work. Never mind nine. How am I going to cope? But when it came to going back, I didn't want to. I wanted to stay at home with Mia.

But it was just kind of trial and error with everything. You know, the whole stopping breastfeeding. Some people said I should have done a lot longer. What made you decide to stop or what made you stop at nine weeks? It was quite difficult for me because she was so little she couldn't latch on to my nipple because she was so small and she did a lot of cluster feeding and I couldn't express that much either so no one else could really feed her it was a case of she had to be on me all the time and it did get easier but she was quite unsettled sometimes after feeding and it was my mum who said to me she's she's still hungry ain't she and I'd be like yeah and I'd try again and there wasn't enough milk coming and I told the health visitors I was thinking of stopping and you know they did

their best to say to me, breast is best. And I know that's something they have to say. But there was a time when they were there with my mum and my mum said, Gem, fed is best. She said, if Mia's hungry and you can't feed her, there's no shame in it. You've birthed her, you've had her, get her a bottle. And so that's what we did.

And it like changed her overnight. Like that was the first time she started sleeping a lot longer because she was full and she was happy. And I thought, oh, my gosh, as if I put this off for so long in fear of being judged. When from just a big bottle of milk, she's asleep. She's drunk and they have a little tash and they're smiling. And yeah, it completely changed her. So, again, that was annoying that I'd beat myself up for it for so long. drunk and they have the little tash and they're smiling and yeah it completely changed her so again that was annoying that I'd beat myself up for it for so long and I know next time if I'm lucky enough to have another baby it'll be a case of I'll try and breastfeed and if I can't they'll

have a bottle and it'll be fine we all end up with McDonald's chips off the back seat of the car anyway at some point in our lives so um yeah I think just a fed baby is best feel like we know what's best for our baby so it doesn't really matter what anyone says if we feel something then it's the right thing and it's almost empowering ourselves and empowering other mums to know like you know your baby better than anyone you know your routine and like the year one is a year of first I think for everything you know the first time they talk or the first bath and I remember the first time Mia slept at my sister's overnight I was like oh my gosh will she be okay I'm not there and she had the best time but then she came

home and the following day she came out in a rash all over her body and I was like oh my god and straight in my head it was meningitis and like could you go straight to panic mode and I was I said to my mum look she's got this rash all over and then I told my sister and she said oh shite she said I've washed a baby grope with our wash she said I didn't even think about it because my sister's three kids are grown up and she said that's what it'll be and my sister was so cool and calm and obviously it's not her first rodeo she was like yeah that's that's what it'll be don't worry she said it's not going down in a couple of hours you know ring someone but we did the glass test and she went it'll be fine and within within an hour it'd gone completely gone um but again it

was the first for me of the first time you see physically something on your child you start the worst but now I'm a lot more not relaxed with it but more open-minded as it's not going to be meningitis every time touch wood you know what I mean it's not the worst case scenario each time there's lots of other things going around did you experience any like low moments during that first year of motherhood um I wouldn't say low there were times when I felt a bit kind of left out from things because I think Mia's dad because Gorka had to go on the road I kind of felt like he was still getting to live his life and do the things he wanted to do when I was kind of at home with Mia um so it was kind of more of a resentment towards him being on the road with the boys having fun dancing and it was only when um he facetimed me once well it's actually Giovanni he said you need

to facetime Gorka uh he's not he's not in a great place and I'm not sure what I can you know what to do and I facetimed him and they were all out and he was in his room and he got really upset and he just said I just want to come home he said I don't I don't like being away from Mia and you and it kind of dawned on me he was feeling the same way about me he was resenting that I got to be at home with our little baby girl and he had to go and work and he was touring and he just said you know he was tied into a contract he didn't want to let anyone down and, well, I just don't want to be here. I want to be at home. And we had a really lovely, honest chat about it.

And I said, well, I thought you were having a whale of a time and I've been feeling this. And he was like, no, are you mad? He's like, I want to come home. So I think it's about communicating with your loved ones. If ever you're having a moment of feeling low or a wobble, communicate straight away. Don't kind of keep it to yourself, whether it's your health visitor or your family or friends, whatever.

You mustn't, mustn't let it fester because it will just pile further and further up. You need to get it out of your system straight away. It's so funny, isn't it? Because I was exactly the same. I mean, it was also a bit different because Tommy was like, I think it was was the Euros so Tommy was always going off and seeing all his mates for the Euros I'd be like sat home um like I was breastfeeding still so I just felt like I couldn't really like do anything or go anywhere but it it's exactly that Tommy actually came on my podcast to do an episode and it was kind of like looking at it from his perspective because I feel like so many of us do kind of build up this resentment and like for

me I've really struggled with that first year identity like I loved the first four months and then I started to like I think get like itchy feet and miss my old life it was also coincided with like coming out of lockdown so the world started to open up again but like my world had changed so much but yeah I remember like Tom saying exactly the same like do you not think I want to be at home with Alf, but I've got to be at work? Definitely all relative. I think everyone's newborn situation is all relative, 100%. And I know that you shot the front cover of Women's Health magazine after eight months of having a baby.

And I kind of wanted to ask you about it because one of the things that I found, I found it irritating before having a baby, but after having a baby, I felt like a lot of confusion around my body and my body image. And not necessarily that I didn't like my body, but it took me a long time. It felt like I was in someone else's body. But what I found difficult was that I felt like, or I still feel like a lot of the topics around the postnatal body is all around appearance. But actually, I personally was going through prolapse and piles and the fear of having sex again and all of this stuff that I felt like how your body looks is the tip of the iceberg but I feel like women

I mean women are always policed with their bodies but especially after having a baby like I know women who lost the baby weight I hate the term baby weight but lost the baby weight straight away and kind of you know went back to the same size clothes after three weeks but they felt really ashamed of that because they felt like they were a really bad role model yeah you feel bad either way yeah they felt like they were told they were a bad role model. And then obviously you have always been really into health and fitness. What did you feel like in your postnatal recovery and doing that photo shoot? Did you feel pressure to look a certain way?

Well, I mean, I was the same as you whereby piles, my God, piles, so many piles. And I don't know why, because I didn't even push her out. But I had a lot of piles and stuff. And obviously with my scar, I had a lot of internal healing to do from my C-section. I think they go through seven layers. The woman showed me on like this grid thing. And I said, oh, my gosh. So I couldn't do anything really, because I was recovering from an operation.

So for me, I viewed it the same as you, whereby it doesn't matter what I look like. I need to heal internally and mentally first. And I did that by focusing on good nutrition and eating lots of colorful foods. You know, the phrase you are what you eat's such a cheesy phrase, but it's true. And I thought I can either sit here eating all the crap in the world, wondering why I'm feeling like crap, or I can do something. It was little things like changing, snacking on, you know, chocolate to raspberries or just having the one digestive with my brew,

not two, you know, it was just little things like that. And when the women's health offer came through, I think they wanted me for the January cover so it would have been six months after I had Mia but they shoot two months sorry they shoot six weeks in advance so they wanted me to do the shoot in the December and I had Mia in the July and I remember saying to my agent that's like that's not enough time and she said what do you mean not enough time I said I'm not going to lose you know my baby weight by then and the editor of Women's Health Claire she said Gemma that's that's the point we don't want you to lose baby weight we want to show you know you softer or then as opposed to having your muscle mass and this and that. And I originally said no.

I just said I won't feel confident and it will ruin the day for everyone and this and that. And then I kind of had a moment at home where I thought, my body's just done the most incredible thing it's ever, ever done. It's not only birthed a child, it's survived the hemorrhage, I've breastfed for nine weeks, I've, you know, done so many things. So why would I ever feel bad about it? Because I'm heavier than I was last year,

or I've got more stretch marks than I had last year. I thought it's just a stupid, silly way to look at your body. Your body's like just the capsule, isn't it? You're so much more than just the capsule and I remember thinking I don't ever want Mia to feel that way so I thought my way around it I'm going to do the shoot I'm going to exercise as and when I can in between being a mum make good choices with my food and however I look on the days however I look on the day you know I'm not going to kill myself or starve myself because that then gives off the wrong impression to other mums that oh you can look this way if you do this this and this and it's

like no you could look that way if you starve yourself in reality so I wasn't I wasn't going to do it um I just didn't think it was fair and I love now that I've got that cover to show Mia that's the first job mummy did you know after she had you did you ever um get any like judgment falling on your body in those um that first year after motherhood yeah and it was weird because it was mostly from men I had a lot of yeah yeah, I had, I remember someone commented and said, you've gone from a pin-up to a wash-up. And someone else said, what a shame, you've lost your body now. And I remember reading them thinking, God, what a shallow,

shallow thing to do after, you know, after, I thought, would they say that to their wife or their daughter after having a baby? know it's kind of the phrase snap back I hate and the whole get your body back I hate because I just think my body didn't go anywhere it just changed to carry a little child it's not like gone somewhere that needs to come back I think that's why I find it so frustrating as well because like knowing what we go through you know like you said like piles the fact that your body got seven layers ripped through it to have a c-section like i had this huge 9.5 baby and literally was like ripped apart and had to be stitched back and this idea that we are boiled down to whether we snap back which you're right is like a rank term in itself but also

I see it you know all the time in the tabloids the way they talk about a woman like when she walks out with her child it's never just like look at this person with their baby it's like steps out showcasing her postnatal figure or something like that it's like not because then three months after birth or just two years after birth they always put a just so no matter how long it is that it causes and it kind of insinuates it also i feel like creates like negativity amongst women because it's like how does she that's not a good role model like she should she shouldn't have lost her baby weight like that but some people do and some people don't and i think we need to see like the reality like a understand that postnatal bodies aren't just about how they weigh and what they look like after giving birth but also allow women's bodies to do what women's

bodies do and that's very different like you know i'm sure my body's different to your body different to the next person's body like emma ratajkowski, I saw her being like globally slammed for like how her body looked after birth. And I feel like, does it really matter? Like we've just been through this like incredible thing. Like you said, like that is our body and it's just done this amazing thing. And it's done an amazing thing, whether you have baby weight or not. Like, does it matter? Yeah. It doesn't define

you as a mother either or as a person you know I just especially like when I was breastfeeding obviously you eat more calories because you need more food to feed your baby but there's some women who will refuse to eat because they're so scared of carrying you know excess weight from the baby and in doing so they're just doing themselves damage. And it's such a sad place for them to be in, especially if, you know, you're at home with this baby. Like you say, you see things going back to normal. And, you know, you do sometimes think, gosh, will I ever get my old life back?

But you always do. You always work around it. And, you know, your size or shape does not define you as a mother. Your two-year-old little baby or four-year-old or five-year-old doesn't think, oh, my mum would be a bit better if she lost a few pounds. You know, they think you're the best thing in the world anyway, regardless of how you look.

Do you feel like pressure or have you thought much around body image and how that might affect Mia? Because obviously I'm a mum raising a son and that comes with its own pressures and things that I worry about but how does it feel as a mum to a daughter um for me we're kind of she loves being active and she loves her exercise and I want to instill in her healthy habits um as opposed to diets and stuff like that. Like she knows that every Friday night we have pizza for tea and she, like on a Friday morning, I say, what's for tea today? It's Friday. And she goes pizza. And we have a big pizza and I'll pick a mix. But then she knows during the week that, you know, she has some broccoli with the food. Um, and she has some avocado at breakfast and

things. So I would never want to tell her she can't have a certain food if she wants a bit of chocolate she can have a bit of chocolate you know it's for me it's I try to lead by example because my mum said a child won't do what you say they will do what you do and that's kind of stuck with me so if I'm saying to Mia you can have a little bit of chocolate each day but you can't have a chocolate bar every day because it's bad for you. But yeah, I'm doing it. That's not going to work. So, yeah, it's just kind of I always think 80 percent what she's going to need to help her thrive and be awake at toddlers when I'm not sending her in where she's crashing on sugar and stuff. But I'm not going to take her to the cinema and not get nachos and pick and mix.

And, you know, we're not going to go on an all-inclusive holiday and we say, don't have that from the buffet. You know, we pay for it, have what you want. But it's just about moderation and knowing, you know, when to get back on track and eat stuff that you're going to thrive from and nourish your body. When did you start to feel like back to normal?

I say the word normal because I feel like do you ever go back like motherhood changes you forever doesn't it but when did you start to feel like out of the sort of fog of both recovery and also motherhood? When I started exercising again and for my first load of exercising all it was was walking just that the fresh walk in the fresh air made all the difference um and again eating nutritious foods i just it's hard to feel bad about a body that you're taking care of and you can be taking care of it by having a bath in epsom salts or by i don't know doing a 20 minute walk on the block with the dogs or anything or yoga on YouTube. I started doing that. And just the minute I started doing things like that, the hormones, happy hormones started being released and started sleeping a little bit better.

And you kind of think, OK, I'm getting back on track. I'm finding myself again. And that for me, there was no kind of like pivotal moment. again and that for me there was no kind of like pivotal moment it was just a slow process of just doing little bits of training again and building up to what I do now really. What do I have to look forward to between now and two years because I feel like I've just come out a real fog of like postnatal depression and I'm starting to like get really excited but I also feel for example my friend Lucy had um a second birthday for Roman um the other week and I genuinely I'm like what's two year olds like I feel so ignorant about anyone remotely older than Alf because I feel like I've not been

I was now when my friends are starting to have babies I feel like I can be a really good like support because I have a rough idea of what might go through or might not go through but um yeah what what kind of things how has it been being a mum to somebody from like say the one to two plus for me I love the fact that you can have a little conversations with them um they can and and the and the communication with them I think is great because it's just seeing how for me how a little mind works like she'll line all the teddies up and she talks to them like the people in toddlers um and it's they start for me things that she's into like she loves horses we have to watch this series called spirit and it's on all day every day and elsa from frozen you know we're out and she'll see an Elsa coloring book her face will light up so it's finding things that she's into that I think oh I can gauge your little

personality um we're going on holiday in a few weeks and she's asked for a little fireman Sam luggage so for me it's when they start developing their own little personalities um because I always I mean obviously she's a toddler she's not an adult yet but I always I can see little pieces of the person she's becoming whereas when she was a baby she was just a baby she cried pooed and slept you know whereas now it's kind of yeah she's like a little person and I absolutely love that it's like having my best mate with me all the time oh that's so nice I feel that I was definitely at that age like the last few months it's just like milestone after milestone isn't it and it's like they start to do things that are really funny and you're like oh my god I can't believe that I birthed a little

tiny baby that like finds certain things funny or does certain things and it's so much more joyful I find than that sort of new that new stage get more back I think when they're a toddler don't you kind of like the other day she said to me she gave me a hug and she said I'm not going anywhere mummy and obviously she's heard that from somewhere but I thought oh god bless you and you know like little and she's she's going through a phase as well where she keeps saying she's knackered and I'm like mum you need to stop saying knackered in front of Mia she says I am bloody knackered looking after her I said I know but Mia keeps telling me she's knackered but she'll rub her hand over her face and go oh I'm knackered I'm knackered mate so yeah it's fun when they start picking things up. Do you feel or how do you feel about the kind of constant sort of pressure to get to that next step?

I feel like, you know, when you're single, it's when you're going to meet someone. When you meet someone, it's when you're going to get engaged or get married. I'm obviously not married, but then it's like when you're going to have a baby. How do you find the constant conversations around having a second baby? Well, we've we've said people are always saying to us, it's time for another, time for another. And we would love another baby, but we've said we want to get a little bit more out of Mia first because part of me is like, I would love her to have a sibling because growing up, there was things that happened that I could tell my sister about, not my parents.

And when we lost our dad my sister was amazing for me my big sister um so I'd love me to have that support system of having someone she could go to if me and her dad were off limits for any reason you know if it comes to boys or girls or sex or whatever um but at the same time I said to go if we have another baby now first of all we don't even know if it will happen straight away. You know, you can never take it for granted. But my time would be taken up with a newborn. I feel like I'd miss this perfect little stage with Mia. And I know every stage is going to be perfect because it's your child.

So you'll always view it as that. But I just feel like I want to get a little bit more out of just the three of us first. Although she has asked twice now for a little sister. Has she? Yeah, she says, I want a sister and she wants to call her Elsa. So, but yeah, we've said we'll hopefully we'll give her a sibling. But, you know, maybe let her turn three or four first and we'll see what happens. Yeah. I find it really interesting knowing like people's

responses to that because I feel like I obviously I'm thinking like would I have another one could I have another one would I be able to do it all over again um so yeah I like hearing other people's thought processes around it and sometimes I'm like yeah I want to do it all over again and then you have a bad day and you're like no absolutely not we all you always do don't i think that's the thing with women we always adapt to a situation like my auntie edna she's she's died now bless her but she had six lads within like two years one two years another another another and she did it on her own more or less and like paper nappies back in those days and they all grew up to be amazing and I think god

they just got on with it because that's what you do and I think women in general like we always go oh how will I do that but you always do it you know like you're saying like my sister I grew up with my sister she's three years younger than me and amazingly she's got her son Jasper who's just uh three or four months younger than Alf and it's been so nice to go through this journey um but one of my earliest memories is my mum and dad telling me that they were having another baby um and I remember really not wanting it to be a girl so it's funny that Mia keeps saying a girl I remember I was like I hope it's a boy because I really didn't want anyone to like come and take my crown. But yeah, I loved having my sibling.

Right, just before I let you go, I always read out a comment from one of my lovely listeners. So this one is from Kesney. I think it's Kesney. Sorry if I've pronounced that wrong. Who left us a review on Apple podcast. And she says the new mum days can be lonely, but not with Ashley around. I go for a walk every day to get my little one and myself some fresh air and some time to clear my head.

And usually the little one naps, but it can be quite lonely, can't it? So with one air pod in, listening to you feels like some time out with a friend who understands everything you're going through and says exactly what you're thinking. Oh, that's nice.

I hadn't actually read that. Did you ever feel lonely? I know you had your mom and your sister, sister but did you find it did you know people going through the similar experiences at the same time as you or how did you meet other mum friends uh well again we we went to one sensory class and then lockdown happened so I didn't really see any new mums um for me it was all kind of zooms with my girlfriends and my best friend Laura she's got two children Harry and Lucy Lucy's eight and Harry's five so she's kind of was a good go-to for me but yeah I remember there was times where like daytime tv became my best friend like

homes under the hammer and escape to the chateau things like I would never watch I used to it'd come on I'd go oh wow and I'd sit with Mia watching it. So, yeah, it's not that I never felt lonely. I sometimes just felt this is it now. This is my life forever. I'm going to be sat in this chair in this same pyjama top with the same wet hair for the rest of my life. And then slowly but surely you start realizing,

oh, okay, I can do this. Because obviously as your little boy or girl gets older, your routine, it doesn't always get easier for everyone, but your routine gets more manageable. Whereby I used to like wrestle to get me a shoes and I can say to her now, can you get your shoes please? And she'll go and get them. So I just kind of always try to take each day as it comes make the most of the time we

have together um and just kind of enjoy the ride really because it's I think that's what it is a crazy roller coaster ride of highs and lows and a few loops thrown in between I feel like you're so like level-headed with it all it's really really nice to hear because I feel like I'm like a roller coaster. But yeah, you seem like just very like balanced with it all and like positive. Yeah, I think you kind of, I'm always, if I can't change it, I'm not going to worry about it. And I just think it's that freedom for me of not having to please anyone but me and if my house is a shithole for two three days fine as long as

she's having fun and there's dens to play in whatever if i've not washed my hair for a week there's dry shampoo i just think you know there's this constant need to try and be the perfect mom in a pinafore with a floral dress on baking apple pie like that for me will never ever happen and for those that can do that I think it's amazing but for me I it's trekkie bottoms slippers and greasy hair for the win and I'm fine with that I love like getting to like relive people's first years with them and yeah thanks for being such a good guest thanks for listening to mum's the word the parents podcast and don't forget you can hit the subscribe or follow button

if you're enjoying it so that you never miss an episode and if you're listening on apple podcast then leave a review I might read it out one week and a five star rating also helps other people to find us and I'll be back same time same place next week