Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Gemma Bird - @moneymumofficial

Episode Date: December 12, 2022

This week we talk money with Gemma Bird, aka @moneymumoffical - we get into the stigmas with talking about money, tips for christmas and free activities, as well as her journey as a mum and her inspirations for getting people open and honestly talking about money. You can follow Gemma @moneymumofficial on Instagram. Send in your voicenotes, experiences and questions to [e-mail] or on our whatsapp at 07599927537. ---A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

I'm sure as parents we all know how messy things can get whether that's around the house during meal times and even when it comes to our little ones themselves when it comes to wiping Alf's messy face and body I want to be sure that what I am using is the best choice for his skin with baby eczema and nappy rash being common conditions using wipes for sensitive skin is a must we've both been loving water wipes. We've actually used them since Alf was born and they gently clean and help protect delicate newborn and premature baby skin. They're made of just two ingredients, so 99.9% water and a drop of fruit extract. That means they are the best wipe choice for sensitive skin. Alf loves them and I even find myself using them.

Well, good morning. You can probably tell my voice is croaky. It's a Monday morning and I've been up since 4am. I feel like I'm right back in the thick of it with sleep and Alf, which is a conversation for a whole other time. But he, for some reason, since being ill and since being on antibiotics, he's just up and at it at 4am every day and we're doing what we can to get him back down, but it just will not make a difference. So I'm actually speaking to a holistic sleep coach later later on this afternoon so what i might do if it's helpful advice um as i'm told that this is a phase that seems to affect lots of people little people around the age of two when they're not quite ready to drop their naps but they're um you know they're waking up and it is it is I feel like a broken woman, especially in pregnancy.

But I'm very, very excited if my voice will work for today's guest because I actually met her about a month ago now at the National TV Awards. And I just knew straight away that I had to get her on the podcast. She is a money saving expert. She's a Sunday Times bestseller. And she's a mum of two so she can tell us exactly what I have in store. She is amazing, especially at the moment I wanted to speak to her with the cost of living crisis because she is actively trying to instigate change. Well, actually, do you know what? I'm going to save this and I'm going to let her tell me. She is known on Instagram as Money Mum Official.

It's Gemma Bird. Hello, all right. Gemma Bird. If I married Tommy, I'd be Ashley Andrews. And that's just like. Oh, I love that. Do you? Yes.

I love Ashley. I don't love Ashley James. It's a bit meh, but I feel like. Ashley Andrews. No, I love that. Gemma Bird is like, I could see it being a cartoon. Oh, okay. Oh. I don't love Ashley James. It's a bit meh, but I feel like. Ashley Andrews. No, I love that. Gemma Bird is like, I could see it being a cartoon. Oh, okay. Oh, I'm going to make that, make that happen.

Put that out to the universe. Gemma Bird. I don't know. It's like a Harry Styles sort of name. You know, like just a cool, cool name. But no, I like Ashley Andrews. But then my kids are BB. So Bronte and Brody Bird.

So I like the double. Oh yeah, the alliterations. Yeah. Well, that's what we've done with Alf. He's Alfie Andrews. Tommy loves alliterations. And we haven't got a girl's name yet. I keep changing my mind.

Tommy named Alfie. So technically, obviously, we have to both like it. But I was in charge. But we have found an A name that Tommy's now like, I like the alliteration. I like the alliteration. But we'll see. We had to find a B name for my my little girl and it was so hard like because brody was just came to us

straight away he's 10 now but to find a b name it was just like oh god like we kept going through all these names and we were like no it's not quite right and then adam came up with this and i was like actually i do really like it bronte bronte bronte's really cool yeah so i do really like it yeah do you know what we're the same like with al, we knew that he was going to be called Alf straight away. And I even, I printed out or I got, I made these little bookshelves on Not on the High Street and it said like Alfie Rivers Andrews and I covered it up until he was born. But we just knew like his name wasn't going to change.

But with this little girl, even like until recently, even when I found out she was a girl, I couldn't call her she. And now I say, oh yeah, with with baby girl but I don't know it doesn't feel real because you used to being a boy mum because for me like I think when I was pregnant with Bronte and they told me it was a girl I was a bit like oh because I think when you used to being a boy mum so it's hard I just found it hard to like think of a girl's name and put myself in that girly position i think because as well like there was such a big age gap in mind i'd been used to doing all the boy things and i just i just thought that i was having another boy like what

was the age gap so how old six and a half years oh wow yes i've got a really big age gap i didn't want it to be as big as that um however having brody was really easy literally first go thought oh you know i'm probably really naive because I've never struggled with getting pregnant. Like, oh, you just, you know, just have a baby. So when it came to having our second, we wanted about four or five year age gap. And then we started trying and it just didn't happen. And then I felt really desperate to have that second. And I got a lot of comments like, well, you've already got one,

which I found really difficult because I wanted that other other the next child i wanted another baby um and yeah it just took us a it just took us a long long time to have my second which is why the age gap is as big as it is but i think everything happens for a reason and it's just it's perfect for us you know i think where i waited so so long and i was used to being a boy and mom i just automatically thought oh well i have another little boy straight away and it was completely it's life's never what you think it's gonna be but I love the fact it's not because it's just your children are your children do you know what I mean like I love it that it's a surprise isn't it whatever you get so and they're all so different did you find um having a second you felt more prepared or was it still a complete shock I felt

like I was going to enjoy it a lot more the second time around because I knew how quickly the newborn stage goes. And I think when you have your first baby and you have the baby and it is really, really difficult. Like I said to you, I didn't enjoy being pregnant at all because I had a terrible sickness and a few problems when I was pregnant. But I think with Brodie, it seems all a bit of a blur. I was really, really ill when I had him as well. It seems a blur. And I felt like I didn't maybe savour every moment.

Whereas when I was pregnant with Bronte, I knew what was going to come. I knew how quick that newborn baby stage goes. So I was just like soaking up every single moment of it. So I felt like maybe I was a bit more relaxed the second time. That's really interesting. because do you know what I feel a little bit the opposite that I loved being pregnant with Alf and maybe there's something in the fact that it was lockdown and it gave me kind of hope when there wasn't anything else going on because it was like the very very beginning of lockdown when we all thought we were kind of living in a walking

dead zombie apocalypse you know you're seeing bodies outside of hospitals and nobody knew how deadly covid was and yeah nobody was seeing anyone so i felt like it really gave me this sort of like positive thing to focus on and my second trimester with alf i've honestly never felt better in my entire life like i felt beautiful i had so much energy i felt like i've been blessed by nature like you know I was like I can't believe I never wanted children like I just feel like honestly mother earth that was it and even though towards like my third trimester I had pelvic girdle pain and all of that that made it tough I just felt so like content and happy and excited and I think I was really expecting that again so even with like the tiredness of the first

trimester I was like it's gonna get it but it's gonna get really good it's gonna get really good and now that I'm in the thick of second trimester I honestly have never felt physically worse yeah I feel like tired sluggish and I'm a bit like obviously else getting up in the night but I'm a bit like oh my god what have i done but equally i'm trying like you said i am trying to like remember that the phase has passed and i'm also trying to just enjoy the bump and the feelings but yeah it's very different to the first time but at least i think it's fantastic that you had a lovely pregnancy the first time every pregnancy is different i mean yeah i you said you didn't like either of them no no i'm not gonna lie i was like if someone could have just handed me the baby and i didn't have to be

pregnant give birth do all that bit afterwards the leaking boobs the pain down below the tearing all that jazz that goes with it i'm not gonna lie i would i would if someone if you could have walked over to me and be like here is your children absolutely i would have chosen that option i always expected oh my god i'm gonna absolutely love I felt, I think maybe where I'm short as well, I've got a really short body. So every time the baby moved, I was literally sick or the pain. I can't tell you the pain. I just, I felt like I was in pain and I was on a boat for 40 weeks, like motion sickness the whole time. So no, I was just like, please hurry up and get here. It's interesting, isn't it? It's good to hear because

i think some people feel really guilty for not enjoying the pregnancy and especially when there is that idea of like you should be grateful you should be grateful and it's like it's really like this sort of like toxic positive messaging where you're like i am grateful but i also feel horrific yeah and i was saying to tommy actually this weekend i was like isn't it mad that because like because pregnancy is such a a normal thing in society people actually don't realize how debilitating it is and you're kind of just expected to get on with your life it's like it's like having a period really like isn't it weird that we're just expected to still function as if we're not yeah like a baby comes out of you and then it's literally like you're just meant to just go back and crack on with the

world but you've had like may if you if you had a cesarean you've had major um surgery if you've given birth to a baby like you just think about what your body has actually been through and i think there's so much pressure on like you've got to get back to looking like that you've got to feel like that you've got you have to be happy when you're pregnant i mean i am absolutely adore my kids with every single bone in my body. But I honestly don't feel bad for saying I didn't enjoy pregnancy because I didn't feel well. So I could lie and say, oh, I loved it. But I'm lying. I wish I did.

I didn't. But I didn't. And I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that. And I hear people that say, oh, my God, I had the most amazing birth. I sneezed and the child come out in the pool. I'm like, absolutely killed me. Did not enjoy it whatsoever. Can't lie. I wish I did but

you know so I think we're all different and all the kids are different so I just think you have to go in your your own experience and if you have a great one that's lovely and if you don't then you just as you say you've got to take each day as it comes so if this one's not as good for you I just think you know just maybe just take each day as it comes yeah I'm actually excited which is good because regardless of how it's going to be, it's having that like positive mindset, isn't it? But I went for a scan this week and yeah, I felt really excited. Like I was at the hospital and I was like, isn't it just so cool that rather than what

I went through the first time, it's like we'll have our date and we'll be able to play our music. And yeah, I'm excited. It's amazing, honestly. Like I'm so jealous of you doing that bit that was my most favorite bit when they give you the baby that first 24 hours i just oh i love it not having any more so i'm jealous to live through you listening to you say it well let's hope that i talk about the positive stuff because i'm gonna be like oh the sleep i feel like i've got ptsd

from sleep over the last two years um But anyway, let's talk about money. Yeah. How did you become Money Mum official? So basically, it's not even really like I sort of, well, I suppose I did become it on Instagram, but my whole life, all I can remember from the age of seven is saving money. Like my parents had always instilled into me that like, if you want something, you've got to work for it.

And I remember even being at school and like the tuck shop shop kids getting tuck money when they went in and my mum and dad never used to give me it you know um so I remember like walking to school and looking for 5ps and 10ps because I wanted it was 25p for this ice bun I remember it so clearly and so that's like my earliest memories and I remember then I was like a mushroom picker and I did every single job you can think of washing my neighbor's car badly if he was listening he'd be like terribly Gemma um but anything to sort of raise money and when I was younger as well like I did like singing and dancing and performing and I loved performing anyway and I had I had a job um I went for a coffee with a friend and I was picking up um you know like leaflets in Costa and she said why are you picking up those leaflet like receipts I

said well I'm checking to see if anyone's claimed the points you know like when you get she said why i said because i'll go to the till next time and say oh sorry i forgot to add these to my card and then get them to add them on i said i can't afford cups of coffee out it's really expensive i'm on a really low income like i need to do this and she said oh i do blogging on instagrams and she's sort of telling me what she was doing and how she's made a career of it. I thought, well, I'm going to blog my money tips and I'm a bit of a doer. So I just literally went home, picked my phone up and started just once, twice a week,

giving a money tip on there. And then I just tried to sort of build on it and build on it and sort of grow it, I guess, and sort of go into sort of celebrities' inboxes or big influencers' inboxes saying, look, I want to talk about money tips. I want to change change instagram i'm sick of seeing a beautiful girl with laboot on shoes and everyone thinking that's normal i want to show the other side like let's go crazy when we get a deal let's all talk about the best ice that we've got let's all talk about okay if we've

got a gucci handbag where can we get it for the best price it was it wasn't about not having nice things it was about getting what we want or doing something and changing the way we're doing it. So not feeling under pressure on a WhatsApp group to go, do you know what girls, I can't afford that £100 night out of the Ned. I really want to meet you, but can we just do a coffee at Costa because I want to see you. And it was about trying to sort of get people talking about money because I feel that on Instagram, we talk about body image. We talk about relationships. We talk about sex. we talk about absolutely everything but I still feel that money is something that we don't talk about or we're there's a stigma around it

we're ashamed of it we're ashamed to say what we earn we're ashamed so we can't afford things so when I started doing it I just literally would be like right I'm in here today I've got this for for free because I've built up my points or I've gone here today and I've got these nappies and they're cheaper in this shop than they are in that shop and then people just started calling me money mum and I just thought that's a really cool name um so that's how sort of the name became about and then I just started introducing myself as that because I thought I love that I love like quirkiness and it just sort of my page is just me really like my family what I do day to day but just everything I do how do I save money on doing it like even

coming here today I said to Adam drop me at Shenfield and not the other station where I live because it's 10 pound cheaper and I was like even driving there and back I'm going to save money so just I've just naturally like that I'm just passionate about it I think why pay out more when I don't have to you know it's so good it's so interesting I find with money it seems to be like a female thing that there's so much shame around it I wouldn't say that everybody talks about it because I definitely feel like businesses rely on us not talking like you know it's actively encouraged like don't talk about salary probably because people are all being paid different amounts but most women I know feel shame either because they're not earning or because they are earning.

But nobody really talks about it. But also, like you said, saving has become this sort of like dirty word in the land of Instagram. Like last week, Tommy and I are trying to figure out if we can afford to go away at Christmas because it would be my last chance before baby. And so I thought, do you know what? I'm going to look at business class flights because I'm pregnant we'll have the toddler 25 grand for two adults bear in mind we don't pay for ALF yet we were looking at Mauritius so obviously it's like a super expensive place to go but I was like 25 grand but like it looks like on Instagram every Tom Dick and Harry seems to be flying business class and i haven't ever i have actually twice once was a a fluke that they upgraded me i think they had they like

oversubscribed so lucky and once was actually last year and um it ended up being not that much more expensive amazing exactly and it's lovely to treat yourself once you get a taste of it you're like oh i don't want to go back of course we all want to like if somebody said to me now here's a gifty trip to fly first class i would say that on my Instagram i'd be honest about it because who wouldn't take it we all would take it right i'd love to fly first class i have to do it before i leave this world something i would like to tick but i'm like you i look at it and i'm like ten thousand pounds for a seat a seat i just can't seat. I just can't justify it. I just can't justify it. I think how long that takes to earn. I think, no, it's eight hours and then I've basically spent it. And think of all the like holidays you could spend or like, well, just, I mean, that's a lot

of money, isn't it? Like it's a lot of money. Yeah. You mentioned shame and secrecy around money and almost like it's still a taboo and still a dirty word but and you're right like you never see people on Instagram really unless they're like you with like a sort of money saving account talking about how much things cost because whether that's too much or too little and also what we don't see on Instagram is the debt people get themselves into to show the lifestyle that they have I always say everyone, like, don't just look at the designer handbags and the holidays or whatever it might be, because you don't know what people are sacrificing or how much they've saved and how long they've saved to do that thing. Why do you think there

is shame and secrecy around being in debt or being strapped for cash? I think it is places like social media that doesn't help it because they'll look at influencers or celebrities or somebody that's very very successful but and they'll think that that is normal and that is really really i find that really really difficult um because obviously two years ago i wasn't on this platform and i did used to look at things and i think i'm quite a sort of a tough character like that so i didn't let it get to me but i know so many people that it does. Like even I just hear people say, oh, it's 50 quid each. And I'm like, I'm not spending 50 quid.

I can't do that. And I'd always have someone come over to me afterwards privately, but never support me sticking up for me there. And then they'd be like, I'm glad you said that because I couldn't. I'm like, well, why didn't you say? Because they feel the pressure. And I just feel it is sad that people worry to talk about it. You know, there is this huge problem, obviously, with debt. And I just wish that everybody would speak about it because it's absolutely nothing to be embarrassed about.

It's just money. Like, it's just like saying, oh, I don't like this jumper. Like, just go and speak to somebody, whether it's a friend, citizen's advice, a debt helpline, and just say, like, I can't afford this or I'm in debt. How do I get out of it? Because there's always a way out. Even if they wipe it clean and you can't get any credit for years to come, there's always a way out. It's only money. If you are in debt, just the first step is talking about it and not being ashamed because there is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. And as well, people can be in debt because maybe they've lost their jobs and mortgage rates have

gone up. They're not just in debt because they want to be. No one wants to be in debt. Or it could be that it's almost an addiction to spend money. We don't think of it like that, do we? But some people are addicted to spending. It makes them feel good buying something. But in the long run, it doesn't make them feel good because then they're awake at night thinking, oh my God, I've bought this. I can't really afford it so i do think social media has a huge part in it and just the way of the world like how we walk in a room and and i think there's still such a huge divide with people like we can walk into a room even for example like at the ntas there's a huge divide there is a divide i don't care what people say i i always

feel like i'm not good enough at those type of events because i'm not a celebrity that's been on the telly. I feel certain people don't speak to me because maybe they feel they've done better than me, if I'm totally honest. And I feel like rubbish. So many times I've come home and I've cried because I've been at an event with women, especially women, and I'm going to say that, who think they're above other women because they've got a better job or they've got more Instagram followers than me. And I'll be like, hello. And I think I'm really friendly. I'll talk to everybody and I'll be like hi and they'll just sort of walk off and it makes me feel like rubbish I'm really anxious and that is I think that is a massive massive problem people think they're better than others and nobody is reality

check we all come in the world and we all go out of it and you can also lose everything overnight you could have a million followers but do something wrong the next day and then have nothing. And a mask could take over Instagram suddenly. Exactly. You've got no followers. Do you know what? It's really interesting because from my experience with the industry, when I came in, obviously, I went straight into Made in Chelsea. And that at the time was kind of like the love island of TV, but there was no Instagram.

So when I met people in the industry he said bear in mind you know I went to school in the lakes and from the northeast everyone's just so nice and unassuming up there I just didn't understand that how this industry really worked and how like cutthroat it is and so because I was on like a tv show everyone just wanted to be my friend and wanted to come up to me and I was like people in this industry are so nice and then when I left suddenly loads of people kind of drifted away people that I thought were my friends and I found it really hard to get used to and quite a few years ago now I dated an actor he's like relatively well known and we were both saying how much we hated events

and he was like yeah because everyone just sucks up to me because of who I am and it makes me feel weird and I was like that's so interesting because I hate it for the other way that people literally talk to me, but are looking behind me. And as soon as someone more important comes along or like, I don't know, even if a photographer comes up and they're like, oh, can we get a picture of you together? The amount of people that have been like, oh no. And then I'm like, what's wrong with me? Why don't you want a picture of me? That's horrible, isn't it? That is just our industry.

But also you don't know like the debt. It's a lot of smoke and mirrors. And that's probably the same in the real world as well. It's the same, yeah, in every industry, whether it's the corporate world, anything, like whether you're working for a bank, whether you're working for, there is people that have got, say,

like their job is higher up in the pay grade. They don't speak to the people maybe that don't think. And it goes on in every single day life. And I'd love to change that. I don't understand why people can't just, everybody just get on. Like, I just don't, I just don't understand it. Like, why you wouldn't speak to me or because you want to speak to you more because you've been on a TV show.

Like, really? You might get on better with me. It's crazy in my mind. Like, just talk to everybody and give everyone your me. It's crazy in my mind. Like, just talk to everybody and give everyone your time for five minutes because it's so interesting. Why does everyone want the same? I love talking to every single, from a billionaire to someone that's really, really struggling. I think it's interesting to speak to all walks of life. And I think if we were all more like that, there would be less people feeling worried to say, I'm in debt, or I can't really afford afford it or I'd love to do what you do.

Could you help me? Or I think people worry about that. And that is because of other people. Do you know what my biggest lesson was with money is when I went to university. So I grew up like, probably like you always having to make my own money. I never got pocket money.

So say when I wanted to Tamagotchi, my parents would like write out a list of chores and each of them would be like 20p for this, 50p for this. I never had money unless I earned it. And I lived in my overdraft at uni. And when I'd go out, my friends would be like, oh, I can't go out because I'm poor. And my version of poor was like, you literally have no more money, like your overdraft is empty. poor was like you're you literally have no more money like your overdraft is empty you're in and I'd be like oh no just come out like I'll pay for you don't worry I'll pay and so I'd go out bear in mind drinks were like 50p or whatever but I'd go and spend 10 pounds that I shouldn't have really spent and then I remember when we left uni a few of them bought houses in London and I remember being like I thought they were poor but they I've like pretty much like funded their drinks tabs throughout uni and that was the first time I realized like wow people

like my version of poor is different to someone else's version of poor to someone else's version of poor and actually a lot of people's version of poor isn't poor at all you know like for me I was in my overdraft until I was 29 and that was felt like such a milestone and then like I paid off my student loan two years ago and that felt like a huge milestone and it is yeah and it is and it should be celebrated exactly look and you've just exactly said what you said it's taken you you haven't done it overnight but you've got out of it do you see what I mean and hopefully someone listening can hear that and think oh actually in a couple of years I can do that I can get out of it. Or I just think if we're just all more open and honest with each other.

And I think when you have open and honest chats as well, when you sort of say, like you're talking to other people, mums or friends, or they'll often say, oh, actually, yeah, do you know what? It's a bit tough for me at the minute. Can we do this? And it's about finding ideas as ways to do things that aren't going to cost the earth. And being mindful of everybody's situation is different. My situation is going to be different to your situation. aren't going to cost the earth and being mindful of everybody's situation is different my situation is going to be different to your situation we're going to earn different money we're going to have different outgoings and that's just that's just me and you

in a room but that's going to be for everybody so I think it's about being mindful of others as well like when you are saying to somebody let's do this if you are really wealthy for example and you're suggesting something that let's go to Vegas on my hen, that's absolutely fine. But also maybe just having a bit of awareness with money and saying, absolutely fine. It's going to cost this. No problem if you can't go, if you want to message me privately and just having mindfulness as well. Because I think for so long we haven't, we've all just gone, oh yeah, put it on a credit card, do this, do that. But realizing now that you can't just do that with everything that's rising. do this, do that. But realizing now that you can't just do that with everything that's rising.

I definitely feel like maternity leave is a bit of an awkward thing around money as well, because obviously some people have really good maternity pay. Some people don't have maternity pay. What advice would you give to people who maybe don't get maternity pay or who are financially struggling, but then they feel pressure with the mom groups if afterwards they're like like let's go for lunch or let's go for a coffee or whatever it is and obviously you really want especially in that like vulnerable time you might want to like connect with mums but equally there is that huge amount of pressure with money absolutely i would say like if you are a mum and obviously you're on statutory maternity pay or you're getting no maternity pay at all look at groups that are run by sort of local churches and things like that because often they're not paying up front because a lot of the groups are it's six pound a week and you've got

to pay 150 pounds up front a lot of people can't do that it's great if you can and that's lovely to do that but if this is i'm talking about if you can't do that okay i always say that it's great for these classes but if you can't do it look at church groups and go into them because i i went to them with a bronte um was really hard up at the time and once a week it was a donation of a pound and then you got tea coffee and cake and you chat to everybody and i also did something there was eight of us in a in a group and we did it that once every eight weeks you hosted so say like you were pregnant now you'd come to my house um this monday and i would do coffee and cake. And then next week we'd go to yours.

Then we'd go to Mandy's. Then we'd go to Sarah's. Then we'd go. So then only once every eight weeks you are hosting. But every week you're going and you're seeing friends and you're talking to people with children of your age. So you don't even have to say, I can't afford Starbucks. Maybe just suggest it and say, I've come up with a really good idea. We're all on maternity and it can be like a bit difficult.

And you know what it's like trying to find space for kids. You say it like that because it is a nightmare isn't it so why don't we all host like once a week like you just do coffee and cake at 10 o'clock and we and i can just set it up so like this monday we're at sarah's next monday we're at ashley's next the following monday we're at jemma's and if there's five of you in a group you're hosting once every five weeks and all it's costing you is the price of a cake you know that you can get for a sort of you can get a nice little sponge cake for a pound and just a cup of tea and things but it's about socializing and you may be going to that goal there'd be if there's a group of you there'll always be one that you are more drawn to because that's just human nature as I say I was like I really like Ashley I've got a

really strong bond with her just message you and say look I'd really love to chat again do you fancy coming over and and make that thing and then if actually you came back and said oh should we meet at the starbucks then maybe just if you feel sort of awkward to say a carnival back five pound starbucks cup of coffee in the park and everything just say do you know what i find it really hard to get out with the baby at the minute and you know there's ways around things if you feel you can't be open and honest but i don't think it's nothing to be embarrassed about and if you probably said it to that mom they'd probably be like yeah do you know what you're right it is a fiver every time we go down there and the park and that's 10 15 quid you're right let's go to each other's houses and then you'll find that you'll probably get a really warm open

response back no one's ever going to be unkind to you if you say say it to them and be open and honest yeah that's what i would do what other um tips would you have especially because christmas is coming up i feel like there's so much pressure like i feel it and i'm on instagram i don't know if you do as well but everything just feels so much bigger than it used to be like the decorate the house decorations like even halloween like who bloody decorates their house for halloween but yeah i felt pressure this year i was like oh my god everyone's got like pumpkin ornaments and stuff in their house and i felt like oh I need to decorate my house for Halloween. See, it's brilliant that you said that.

I love that you said that because I so don't feel the pressure. I think that's just because that's just the way I am. Like I've never worried about what others think or like I'm like. Do you know what? Mine, I don't know if it's like keeping up with the Joneses because I've never cared about like having designer staff or, you know i i have where i have felt the pressure is when i quit my job at 25 and then i was really like i didn't really earn money for four years and so all my other friends who stayed in their jobs and were getting promoted and they were like let's go on a girl's holiday and i struggled with that because i just couldn't afford it so then i said

no but then i really felt like i was missing out at the same time whereas now it's not necessarily because i care i mean i don't really know anyone in my area so it's not like you know they're gonna come around and be like oh nice pumpkin i'm gonna i'm near you next year i'm gonna judge your pumpkins but it's more i don't know why i i guess because i like really want that like perfect family home because that was like always my dream like my dream that i want that and i know it's not like material stuff. I don't know. Even like Christmas decorations this year, I used to put my decorations up on like the 15th of December. And this year I did it like mid November.

Cause I see it. Like, I don't know. I feel like Instagram is making everything earlier, but then I always think like, God, I hope people don't look at my Instagram and think I'm like being pressured by the pumpkin parade.

And then so I get, I become the pumpkin parade. And then if other people are like, Oh no, I do pumpkins in my home or whatever it is um yeah i just think christmas a good like good tips with that is like i did one the other day where i did i blew up i did my christmas decorations this year for like four pound i got pine cones with the kids sprayed in white for the spray paint i think was about two pound fifty and then i blew up balloons and made them they look like i keep saying ballbons.

They're biscuits. Ball balls. Like ball balls as giant balloons. And someone said, oh, they might deflate. I was like, they're £1.25 for 10. So if they did deflate, just pop a couple of more in. So there's ways of doing it cheap. If you did want those amazing decorations that you've seen on a certain influencer's page or a celebrity's page,

a great tip is go and buy them in January. or a celebrity's page, a great tip is go and buy them in January because those things that are like six quid will go down to like 50p in January and put them away for next year. So I've always done things like that and buying presents for the kids, like don't feel the pressure. At the end of the day, children just want to unwrap loads of things. I remember one year Brodie said to me, I said, what do you want for Christmas? He went 20 presents. He was about five. I went, what? He went 20 presents. I went, of what? He went, I want bugs. about five. I went, what? He went 20 presents. I went, of what? He went, I want bugs. I want a slime. I want this. I want that. And I remember thinking, basically, you just want a load of things to unwrap. So I went to Poundland. And

this is God's honest truth. I bought him 20 things for Poundland. So it cost me 20 pounds. I wrapped them up. And that is what he got for Christmas. I was not, I didn't have loads of money. Me and Adam didn't buy for each other. And I did it for 20 pounds. And he had the best morning of his life playing with these bugs and ripping open the toys. And he didn't notice. He didn't go into school and go, he was five years old.

What Xbox did you get, mate? No, he didn't. He talked about his bugs and his slime and everything. And I just didn't feel the pressure. I was like, okay, I'm going to buy him that. And people can look at me like, oh, that's being a bad mum. But I felt like, no like no i was being sensible like i couldn't afford to do it we had a lovely dinner um lovely roast dinner which we had chicken and not turkey because that's cheaper

and we had a lovely day we all got together we all were singing in the evening we're playing ball games and i would say i had a nicer christmas than say you had but i just didn't have all those expensive things and we still had all the decorations and always once a year i've always taken the kids to a garden centre. And I've always picked something really special for Christmas, which is overpriced ridiculousness. But it's part of what we do, our tradition. I'm not saying you have to do this because it's just traditions, isn't it? So each year I've added to our Christmas pile as well.

So I think get things like yearly. Do you see what I mean? So that you haven't got to spend it all in one year. And then you can save up throughout the year and buy those bits in January. And also, if you've got young kids, I used to go to the NCT Nearly New sale. They do that in our area. And I've got like this like little keyboard. I paid like £8 for it for Brody. And now Bronzy's got it. It's absolutely brilliant. And like, it was basically, they're all secondhand toys, but it's called Nearly New. They're literally perfect. Like a three-year-old is not going to know if that is secondhand or not look on the facebook market pages buy the lol dolls on

there put them in a little box from card factory poundland wrap it up make it look pretty and give her it they're not going to be like mum sorry need a word here that's not from smith toys for 60 quid is it you paid a fiver off the facebook market they're free for five and six especially if you've got little ones they just want to open things like they say they play with the boxes don't they so just get them the one thing that they're really into and then a load of little bits like just don't go mad you know what's so funny because i remember like the most exciting thing for me about christmas was my grand turning up so we do like presents and then my gran would come and she would literally come with like like she bought so many presents and i remember

my parents would be like she just buys tap man but for us you're right we just didn't care we had a 50 pence shop it's actually still there up where we live so everything would have been from 50 pence shop and she probably spent five or a tenner but it was like the amount of presents that she'd come with and we were like this is amazing and it is it was more about like the unwrapping and also a big thing for me that i want to have now is like that sort of like singing and ball games because we didn't have that as a family and i remember i always wanted that so it wasn't even about what was spent or the presents i just wanted that sort of like and that's your memory as a child that is exactly what i'm saying your memory is your nan coming around with a load of things that you just said were probably a fiver you probably can't even there might be the one

odd toy that you remember that your parents bought you that was probably the 50 100 pound toy but most of the time when you ask people at the childhood they go oh yeah i remember they used to come around and bring chocolate every year or they just they just want they want your they is so true they want your time children they love your time they love going out for walks running in the mud jumping around in muddy puddles and like they just like doing things like that like but yes when they're brody's age and they are 10 like he said to me this year can i have an iphone absolutely he's not getting one so i'm like no absolutely not don't feel bad about saying i'm like i don't want to buy you an iphone and then he was like, oh, I want the iPhone, whatever the latest one is out.

I think it's 14. Not even got it myself. Oh, yeah, I'm going to buy you. I was like, no, absolutely you're not getting it. So don't feel worried about saying no to them. And like with Brodie this year, we've said no to that. But he wants, what did he want? Oh, he wants these Jordan Air Max trainers.

So I've said he can have those. But I've also said, okay said okay well i'll buy you like one nice gift i think i've actually gotten this out i think i paid about 64 obviously i've been looking in the cell um and one other thing but i've said to him you're not going to have loads of things to open um your sister will because she's three and she just wants lots of things and he's like he understands that he's older so again it's about just having a conversation with them and just speaking to them and saying if you would like that thing or maybe all clubbed together so if they do want that ipad and it's 300 pounds and you've got a budget of 150 for a child at

christmas speak to all your friends and family and saying look instead of you all spending 20 quid each on brody's buying him something can we all put in so we can have the ipad and we'll explain to him this is from everybody and get a gift like that so that's a way of doing it as well we've done that before. I'm sure as parents, we all know how messy things can get, whether that's around the house, during mealtimes, and even when it comes to our little ones themselves. When it comes to wiping Alf's messy face and body,

I want to be sure that what i am using is the best choice for his skin with baby eczema and nappy rash being common conditions using wipes for sensitive skin is a must we've both been loving water wipes we've actually used them since alf was born and they gently clean and help protect delicate newborn and premature baby skin they're made of just two ingredients so 99.9% water and a drop of fruit extract that means they are the best wipe choice for sensitive skin alf loves them and i even find myself using them what about activities with children like what kind of like if you're on a budget or even if you're not on a budget but like they're so expensive i know you mentioned church groups

what other things especially over the christmas period, but like they're so expensive. I know you mentioned church groups. What other things, especially over the Christmas period, I feel like it's so hard to entertain children and you don't want to be spending out. I went to, you probably know, Gym Rocks at the Brentwood Centre. Yeah, that's lovely. And it's really nice,

but it was like six pounds. And I said, I went with Tommy's mum. I was like, this is really nice, but like you couldn't come here every day. No. But again, it's about sort of what I would do is like almost write down a list. So if you're off on the school holidays, so for example, yeah, you've got like a gym rock, six pounds on the Monday and take your own like lunch and snacks with you.

Then the next day, go work out the weather, do like the walk in the woods and go, right. We always say to Bronte, we're going on a bear hunt. We go, can you see the bears? And we just try and make it magical. We do this all the time. Like it's a bear hunt or a stick man hunt where we are we've got all places like that haven't we and then doing things like going to your local library so today i'm here and adam's actually right now at the local library of bronte because they've got i think rhyme time on this morning at 11 o'clock or something like that

so she does like singing free no no charge for it so she goes in there she sings and then they'll go then he said right then we'll go to on the scooter and then they're going to go to the park and come home. So it won't cost Adam anything this morning to take her out. So we'll do things like that. So the libraries are really good ones and they're warm. You can go there for a few hours, especially the heating costs at the minute. Turn your heating off at home, go down to your local library. A lot of them as well are offering things like free hot drinks and things like that. I was looking, they're really trying to help out the like free hot drinks and things like that. I was looking. They're really trying to help out the local libraries.

So do things like that. Take your kids down there. Read the books. See what activities are going. Look at your local fates as well, like school fates and things like that when they're on. So if you want your kids to go and see Santa, don't be booking, you know, Harrods Santa.

If you can, again, lovely, beautiful, really pleased for you. It's actually not on this year. Is it not? Okay. Apparently because they're meeting. I've never been either and it's only because I was like I was like I need to meet Santa and loads of people be like oh how I think because people obviously see like that experience yeah they cancelled it a because of lockdown but basically the year before lockdown apparently they did this thing where they said the people who get priority or people

that spend two thousand pounds in stores obviously there was loads of controversy because it's like so only rich people can see Santa then so they I think because that controversy has like died down now they don't want to bring it back and like it's terrible an awful thing to do do you know what you said Tommy's mum lives um by the seaside in Essex in a place called Frinton oh my god I love it you was there weren't you I messaged you yesterday I saw it I was like I love Frinton honestly best place ever on Saturday it was just me and her and um we went to the local library I honestly I cannot believe local libraries are free and apparently the best way you can help them at the moment is to sign up as a member for like as many people as you can so i've signed alf up they're just amazing and like alf loves all the that's not my books they had so many in there and

it's a really nice place to meet other parents we were chatting you know he was chatting away to other kids in a way that two-year-old can um and then we went to we were told about a church fair that was on next door at the saint m Mary's Church. And we met Santa. And it was amazing. So they said it was like three pounds, but we actually didn't have cash. And they're like, oh, that's fine. Just come in. So I ended up making a card donation.

Who knew churches had a little card machine these days? Wow. But that would have been free if you didn't have the money to spend. And I was like, that's just amazing. So we didn't pay for a fancy department store Santa, but it was perfect and it looked amazing. I mean, when I looked at the pictures, I was like, oh, it doesn't quite look as good as it did in real life. But he felt the same experience, right?

He's two and that's what he's going for. Yeah, Santa, that's what I'm saying. I think we want that perfect image, as you say, of that Harrods shop. But as you just said, he wouldn't have known if he was meeting Harrods Santa or the local one. he's two years old he absolutely loved it and probably was frilled and all smiley or some kids actually hate meeting santa don't know that's you see there's always a child that's like no no i don't want to do it i've lined up but we've got it every year in um it's the christmas market they do um and the santa there's free or something like 50p and

they get a present and they meet Santa. So look around for things like that. Literally Google free things to do in your local area and you'll be surprised how much it brings up or like museums. So like if you are near London, this is like the Natural History Museum, book online before you go, but it's free. There's certain sections you have to pay for, but majority of it is free to go. And we go there all day. We take a packed lunch other than our travel. And we always drive like to Upminster because it's the tube straight in so it's cheaper we tap in and out so it cost me and adam like 12 pound for the day we go out for the whole day with a packed lunch and take the kids all all into all the free museums they love doing that like science museum and all things like that so it is lots of things to do for free it's just about thinking and then

and not having that worry as well like one day week, we're staying in today because mummy's got to clean. Mummy's not got any money at the minute. Say that to your kids. Make them understand that you can't constantly buy everything. Like, I don't think that's a bad thing to say. Like, mummy can't afford to do that today. So, mummy's just going to stand and clean. Or ask, Brodie will say things.

We're going out. And I would say to him, no, mummy can't really afford that. But Ash has invited us around. Brodie, even at 10 now, would love to come around your house because he just loves it who's ashley we're going to her house where she live i was her little boy they they love going kids love going to other houses like and he'd get there straight away and he'd be like um can i go to the toilet and if you said you had a downstairs one he'd be so devastated because basically he just wants to know he's upstairs you remember doing that as a kid you just want it he'd be like oh i need not that toilet i

meant your other toilet in so i can just quickly have a nose at all your bedrooms. But yeah, that's what he loves doing. Like just seeing other children is the main thing he loves doing and people and time. And he's 10 years old and he still loves that now. Other kids and meeting other people. So it's really interesting to me because obviously I'm not at that stage of parenting yet. But I grew up in a household that there was so much like money talk and stress about money and it would be like we don't have any money money doesn't grow on trees and i feel like even now that i'm currently doing

okay like i always stress i feel like constantly stressed about money how how do you recommend to people that they do bring up money in a way that doesn't like traumatize their children yeah because I'm exactly the same like now I'm okay um obviously now because I've been through this long journey but I feel the same as you Ashley I like really do I think there's just a fine balance I think we have to talk about it to our children because I always say like when your kids come and ask you for something you can't go to your boss halfway through the month be like all right um well I've spent all my money can I have another grand they'd be like no you have to wait till the first and you get paid again so I

think it's it is teaching them and it is our sort of job to sort of guide them and teach them but obviously you don't need to say every single day but I just think things like just naturally saying when you're out um right we're going to do this today and then the next day they start sort of moaning as kids do like oh god it's unfair life just then i think that's what it's fine to say well mummy's not got the money today we did do that yesterday didn't we we did take you to alton towers for example we've had an amazing day we can't do that every day so today we're going to do this and it's sort of explaining that yeah that's a treat you did go there but you can't do that five days a week.

It's like me and you going into Selfridges every single day and buying a designer handbag. We can't. We might once, twice a year as a treat for ourselves. Everybody likes to treat themselves, you know, but you can't every single day. So I think it's just explaining it in a, in a just a way that suits you as a family as well.

There's no right or wrong either. There's no right or wrong with how you talk about it. You parents will say it different to me to you to how i speak to brody i think say it however you feel that you feels right to your child i think the issue probably with my parents and it was that they would have adult conversations with each other about how stressed they were about money but around us so we kind of like had the fear of god in us all the time yeah it's like maybe yeah doing it in a age appropriate way like you're saying what's your thoughts on pocket money um i'm really pro pocket money um i think it's really really good but i think if you stick to it so my um mom and

dad when i got to a certain age gave me an allowance i think it was about 16 17 but that was to include my bus fare my deodorant i think at the time i think it was about i want to say 10 pound a week but it might have been less it might be more we are going back many years i'm 41 now um but that was to get like my bus fare my this my that and i do remember so clearly like after about two days i'd spent it all i think i'd gone and got like some food at college not taking the packed lunch that i could have done from home got the bus there i could have walked didn't said to me dad oh right I want to go cinema um can I have another tenner and I remember my dad went no and I was like what he was like no you get 10 pound a week every Monday for example it's Wednesday so you'll get 10 pound on Monday

and I went well I've spent it and he went and that's when he said well you can't go to your boss at the end of the month and it taught me budgeting so I remember the next week I was like right I've got to make this £10 last now so I remember I walked like a couple of days into college I didn't like buy all these extra things at college I made it last because I thought right I'm going to save up because I want that little top for a fiver or whatever it was so it was a way it taught me budgeting and I thought it was a really, really good, for me, I really, I like it and pocket money if it's done right. But I don't think it works if you're just constantly shelling out. I don't think that's really teaching them anything. But again, this is just my view, but I think pick

whatever the amount you want, whether it's a thousand pounds a month, five pound a month, whatever it is, I'm never, I never say right or or wrong so i don't think there is a right or wrong with anyone or anything so but then stick to that budget and and try and not give in you know because then that it teaches them doesn't it like yeah that's a budget to be fair i did love like for example when i wanted to tamagotchi and it was like i had to pretty much work the whole summer and it'd be like sweeping the leaves off the garden because also i got such a like buzz off dad dad dad i've done it i've done it and he'd like come and inspect and like there'd be always be a leaf because obviously there was trees above and he'd be like oh it's and then you'll be like what about now what about now

and i get like my 20p or whatever and to be able to like tally that all up um i know that you're an advocate for money management classes to be um included into the school's national curriculum why do you think that doesn't it seems so obvious doesn't it to teach kids about money and budgeting i'm literally speechless with it like i cannot believe that we don't teach this in schools like it is so mad to me it's the only thing i can think of that all of us is connected every single solitary thing i mean we don't fancy the same thing we don't eat the same food but we're all connected by money we've all got different religions but we've all got money oh yeah but we don't teach money how crazy is that and i feel

like people that have money or people that don't have money it doesn't mean that you're better or worse no at like knowing how to spend it or budgeting it just needs to be basic things like okay what to do what to do if you get into debt you know debt causes so many suicides and for young people and people of all ages because they don't know where to go like it's absolutely heartbreaking to come in january that is the thing that makes me feel so upset the amount of dms i get on that whereas if we taught it in school and we taught that it was, you know, it's okay to say, I need help with money. I need help. Somebody help me. Where to go, what to do when you are in these problems. Then I think it would be so much easier for a 16, 17 year old to go, right, I'm getting a mortgage. Okay, right. I've spoken about this before with

young people. And I've said, if you buy a house for 200 grand, you have to pay a mortgage. And I've said, do you realize, what do you think you pay back and they're like 200 grand and i'm like no no no you might whatever it is say for example you pay about 300 000 pounds because you're borrowing interest it's probably about 700 exactly but do you see i mean then they're like what do you mean but if i'm borrowing why have i got to pay back extra the amount of 16 because i don't understand but i'm borrowing 200 why am i paying back all this extra money i'm like it's interest so just like just literally literal life skills like if you get a credit card they're really really good if you use them correctly you can build up air miles they're interest free when you get your first job and

you're living at home with mom and dad and you might be only paying them 100 pound a week and you're earning 1500 pound a month you're the richest you're probably ever going to be in your life you've got no kids no outcomes put away six seven hundred pound a month you're the richest you're probably ever going to be in your life you've got no kids no outgoings put away six seven hundred pound a month then that is when you can really get in front of yourself if you get into debt this is what you need to do if you're getting an overdraft make sure you get an agreed overdraft so that you're not getting charges just all these basic things that we should be teaching and helping helping children with because we know them because we learn them as my life goes on but they should be taught see i feel like i still don't really know them like we learn them as life goes on but they should be taught at a young age. See I feel like I still

don't really know them like I got my flat which felt like a huge achievement at 30 and I didn't know about mortgages stamp duty it still blew my mind

I was like but I've paid tax but I've paid tax like this is my this is my savings and my stamp duty was basically as much as my deposit

because I did help the help to buy scheme and I was like but I don't get it because I've paid my deposit because I did help the help to buy scheme. And I was like, but I don't get it because I've paid my tax and I managed to save some money. It's like inheritance tax, isn't it? You're taxed on your taxes that you taxed and taxed. It's just crazy. And it still confuses me because even like when the interest rates were good, I couldn't believe how much interest was charged every month.

So basically I'd pay off whatever it was, but half of that would be interest. And I was like, so I'm not seeing the number go down. I don't get it. I don't get it. And I'd love for someone to have explained it. And it's been great, like young people as well, when they get on the ladder before they have children, they might have like 40, 50 quid a month that they're just frittering. If they overpaid that on their mortgage and we were shown mortgage calculators and say,

if you did that, you'd save three years on your mortgage and you could save yourself 20,000 pounds. I've done it before like it'd be so good for people to see this because they're saving themselves money and you're just being shown it but if you're not shown it and you can't see it as a visual you don't do it especially when we talk about things like osmo like osmosis what is osmosis it was like i can't remember what it was but it was part of biology or something i was terrible it's like why are we talking about stuff like that? Or even like algebra. Maybe algebra is useful.

I don't know. But like, I would have loved classes about, I don't know, like, today we're going to learn about mortgage. So you pay whatever it is. Yeah. And this is like, at least it's like practical. Imagine if someone had sat down with you at 17 on your first job and say you were earning £1,500 a month take home.

Let's just go on that for now. And you said to me, right, I pay my parents £300 a month to live at home. You've got £1,200. And somebody said to you, you've got £1,200 surplus income, literally surplus. You're never going to have it. And then I said to you then, why don't you put £700 of that away? You've still got £150 a week to just go out and blow because you're at college or whatever you are. How much money in those two, three years you could have saved to started your life by the time you were 21 you could have had 30 000 saved up and this is true because i did it and my sister did i remember speaking to her about it and we're not we don't sit there and speak to young people about things like this we don't say okay so if you get into

debt this is the interest like why are you on that credit card do you know you could switch to a one and you can do not percent balance transfers and you could take that money and then you could stop yourself paying debt like if we taught these things'd have, at least we'd given them the tools. We're just basically pushing people out into the world and not telling them anything. So no wonder people don't know where they are with money. And it's like a dirty subject that you can't talk about because we don't even talk about it at school, let alone in adulthood. So yeah, I'm so passionate about it.

I just want it in schools. What are you doing to get it into schools? I tried do um you know where you start like a petition a government petition but it got declined before i could even push it out so i need to look at another way of what to do um i've started to sort of speak to sort of tv producers things like that because i thought felt like if i could do a documentary and i could go into people in the schools and speak to them and speak to teach maybe we could get some movement but obviously obviously it's hard for me. I'm not, I'm a no one really. Do you know what I mean? Like, so getting things going is really, really difficult, but I'm going to like keep going and keep looking at different avenues and trying to push it that

we get a bit of a breakthrough. Hopefully one day I'll meet the right person that can help me. That's all it takes. I'm with your name. Yeah. You've got the right name for it. I've got the right name for it. And I know that you brought out a book last january called money mum official save yourself happy what what is that about what can people expect from the book so there's lots of like useful tips and tricks and things like that in it but it's also about um mental health and the mindset behind money and it's about getting you on the right thinking path to money because I feel

like you'll never have money you'll never deal with money unless you sort of you understand it like you I always say like appreciating a 10 pound note like once you start doing that and you're thinking it's a tenner and how long it takes you to earn it's about getting you into really the mindset of how to save and what to do if you're in debt and how to get out of it and where to look at each thing you are earning how long it takes you to earn that money and sort of making you think about it and write it down and sort of my journey and how i've got there but i just think it's really interesting and it's very easy like i'm dyslexic i don't know fancy words you know i didn't grow up in a posh

area or anything like that so it's really easy i feel it's for everybody and i feel it's just a really easy nice read and it just gives you clarity like, yeah, do you know what, actually, I'm not cancelling my subscriptions. I don't know the last time I checked my bank account. I don't really save. Yeah, she is right. I am on a ridiculously high interest rate. Have I looked at other loans out there to try and get myself out of this? Have I spoke to a debt management company? This is spiralling out of control.'s getting people thinking and also um mental health as well like i'm a real strong belief i suffer horrifically with mental health so it's about that as well although i'm really confident i can talk to anyone i've got terrible mental health problems i worry about everything

like i'll probably go home tonight and think god what did i say to ashley did i say something wrong am i doing this wrong you know i'm dyslexic as well. So I worry about absolutely everything, everything and anything. So it's all about that as well. So I think it's a real all-rounder book. I'm really proud of it, actually. Really proud of it. Do you know what?

I'm exactly the same as you. And I feel like my anxiety has got worse since lockdown and I've never quite recovered from, like with social anxiety, but with money, especially, like I feel even though I try and avoid it because I know like oh i've spent like too much money or i haven't looked at my subscriptions especially when i was in my

overdraft i'd always just like put it out of mind i can never wanted to look at you know and you get money out and it's like do you want to look at your balance and i'd be like hell no no thank you then it would like keep me up at night because i was like i wonder how much money i've got in my account i wonder from in my overdraft like whatever it would be but then once I actually like I did it in lockdown because obviously all my my job just stopped like suddenly overnight all my DJ jobs got cancelled so I went through everything and cancelled all the subscriptions and like really went through everything and I felt so in control like it it made me feel so much better and I'm like why have I been putting this off like it's like you know having your excel sheet of your budgets and i like having like what i spend on i don't know eating out eating

in eating and then and then it's like almost like a challenge to try and get it down each month yeah and i think lockdown taught people a lot of things actually i think in some ways that the real positive that come out of it was we actually we don't need labute on choose to make us feel good what we need is other people around us like we wouldn't have been able to do this today being face-to-face two years ago. It would have been a Zoom call. There was no personal contact. Like as you say, at the NTAs the other day,

we could sit down and just have a natter. We wouldn't have been able to do that two years ago. And that is what it was about. It was seeing other people and going for just a coffee. Then everyday things is what makes us happy. It's not those designer things and the fact that you could be on a really high-powered job and it can go overnight and you have to manage your money so i think a lot of people did i think it changed some people for the good and for the

better people that were maybe sort of maybe stuck up or pretentious whatever you want to call them they were like actually you're right things can go why have i been like this like why have i thought that this is the right way to be i've had so many people say that to me privately in my inbox saying you know what i was a bit of a twat before um and now you're right like yeah like anything can go from anybody um and i think it's a good thing like it's probably even for you because it made you sit there and go everything was probably so confident for you in your life like you're always going to get dj and you're always going to do this. Nothing's going to stop you doing it. And then when a world pandemic hits,

it makes you think, oh, actually I need to sit down and go for my finances. Actually, what I do really miss is seeing my friends. And I did really miss DJing because I liked doing that and seeing people. And it wasn't the things that maybe you thought made you happy before. So I think lockdown did some good.

I always read out a email or whatsapp or whatever it might be from a listener and this week it's from holly but i feel like we have kind of covered it she says hey ashley with christmas coming up do you have any tips or ideas on how to keep my children entertained on the cheap or any diy gifts that they'd love thanks holly so i feel like we've covered activities yeah although annoyingly what so many children's activities like clothes for holidays but the library will be open walks outside museums if you like arts and crafts and painters and things i mean i'm not an arts and crafts mom um but adam likes doing that with the kids so i always think there's probably one of you that's more better i

like doing drawing and things with them but i'm just i'm so rubbish at anything like that i'm like oh my god you're getting pain everywhere this is stressing me out let's put it away um so yeah things like that like painting with the kids and things like that they enjoy that don't they and going yeah like just getting to make christmas cards that'd be quite cute for grandparents or whatever yeah and the way of saving money with that is i said i know it's nice to receive a card but if you're really finding it difficult this year why not send like an e-card and just say to everyone, look, I've got a cut back. I'm going to send you it all.

But paying for a stamp, paying for a card is all expensive. So there is ways you still can do things, but just changing the way in which we do it, if you see what I mean. I can't buy cards. They're just such a rip off. Like I just can't do it. So I actually say I was donated to a charity, just such a rip off like these I just can't do it so I actually say I was donated to a charity

usually like a homeless charity around Christmas and I'll say like this is what I've spent the card money on because it's like people open it and it sits on their mantelpiece

and then it gets thrown away yeah exactly yeah and that's a lovely thing to do some people love cards anyway Gemma it's been amazing

I feel like had a good little chat about money yeah you never talk about money And that's a lovely thing to do. Some people love cards. Anyway, Gemma, it's been amazing. I feel like I've had a good little chat about money. You never talk about money. No. I suppose I'm the only person that you speak to about credit cards. Probably the most boring podcast for anyone. They'll be like, oh. No, it's good because no one talks about it. Then it would be a bit weird if I brought it up with other people as well,

wouldn't it? Because it is a bit to be. I'd be like, so. How much are you making from this uh thing then they'd be like sorry but yeah if anyone um does have any like questions or concerns then you can find you on Instagram you're really good at getting back to people aren't you yeah I try my best with everybody so um yeah I hope it was useful thank you so much listening to mum's the word the painting podcast and if you enjoyed it please make sure to hit the subscribe or follow button so that you don't miss an episode and

if you want to get in touch like holly does and maybe about something we covered today maybe about a topic you want us to cover then i always love hearing from you so you can get in touch on email like holly did at askmumsthewordpod at gmail.com. You can leave a review on Apple Podcasts then it's really easy to see or you can leave a voice message or WhatsApp message, which is obviously free at 075 999 27537.

And I'll be back with another episode same time, same place next week. Thanks Gemma. Thank you. I'm sure as parents, we all know how messy things can get, whether that's around the house, during mealtimes, and even when it comes to our little ones themselves. When it comes to wiping Alf's messy face and body,

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