Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - How Early Do You Start with Consent? With ToddlersTeensandBetween

Episode Date: July 2, 2023

It's hard to understand our toddlers on a good day, especially with the overwhelming advice out there, so the lovely Gemma and Sophia from ToddlersTeensandBetween are here to chat further on communicating efficiently with our toddlers, emotional literacy and modelling for our kids to copy. Send us your questions and experiences over to [e-mail]!You can find Gemma and Sophia https://www.toddlersteensandbetween.com/@toddlersteensandbetween--A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

so it can be hard to understand our toddlers at the best of times that is the understatement of the year which is why i am so happy to have jemma and sophia behavior well-being and mental health specialists who support parents with their toddler teens and in between bring back the cooey i love it i don't know oh my god my mom said it to each other if i don't reply to her what's happened like this she'll put kooey that's me i'm not so i say like groovy and funky like oh my god i love it that's so good kooey girls thank you so much for coming in very excited sorry if i'm getting a bit too excited that you girls are here. I have a toddler.

I'm at that stage. I have a lot of questions. How much time do you have? We're here. We are yours. You're here for it. You're the perfect couple to chat to about big emotions and our little ones.

You've got the understanding of these. Between you, you've got 16 plus years of experience, cover emotional literacy, boundaries with consistency, sibling rivalry,

tantrums, consent, which is a big one these days. And lots, lots more as well. You can find them on Instagram at toddlers, teens and between. Let's start, shall we, ladies? Go for it. What on earth is going on in their tiny minds?

Toddler emotions, I guess, is a big topic that you guys cover. Where do we start? How can we learn to understand our toddler's emotions what's the first thing that we can do jem our toddler expert okay they're similar to adults but their brains haven't developed properly yet yes so they're going through the same emotions but their view of the world is slightly different to an adult's view of the world in the sense that they don't understand turn-taking. They don't understand that even if you hide an object, they're learning that it's hidden rather than it's gone away. So their brains are a bit more simplified than adults, but their emotions are there. They're still going through all the same emotions, anger, frustration, jealousy, wanting what they want, but they just can't communicate it with us.

So it's important to, when you see a toddler and when you're kind of having a meltdown or your toddler's got big emotions, it's important to think, what are they trying to show me? How are they trying to communicate it to me? And how can I teach them to communicate this? Because they are like sponges. They are absorbing everything they're learning everything new so it's all about teaching them how to actually articulate it how to ask for it how to ask nicely for it what it means to turn take but also from kind of like thinking about it from an adult's point of view as well of well we don't just expect adults to give up something that they're playing with and they give up happily. Yeah, you're right.

Also, this is all about emotional literacy. So when we were younger, I feel like I didn't know when I was angry that the word was anger or frustration at a young age. And so if we provide our toddlers and early years kids with the language so that, oh, I can see you're frustrated. You're really balling up your fists and your jaw is clenched or whatever. And so you're associating the feeling and the behavior and then they can start to verbalize that language back to you as they grow up. I'm really angry, mom.

Okay, great. Thank you for explaining you're angry. And so you give them the language. Is it repeating it to them as well? When they keep doing a certain behavior, saying the right kind of words. I mean, it's so hard though, isn't it? Because there's so many different things that you say and you're like,

I don't know if I'm doing the right thing. And there's no guide to this. You have health visitors. We were talking about this before. You have all this prep before the baby gets here. And then a couple of months or weeks after, someone comes and visits and makes sure you're doing it all right. And then you're just like, okay.

It's so bizarre, isn't it? That then it just stops and you've got to ask friends. You've got to, you know, do your own research on it or just, you know, potluck. Or you end up doing the opposite or the same as the parent generation you had. And I feel like now we've got this like huge plethora of Insta and TikTok and whatever, and people giving guides and advice. And actually it's so, it can be so overwhelming.

It's almost too much and also like i think the phrase gentle parenting is kind of the hit word at the moment and it's almost like well okay that doesn't always work like i need to take it a bit further no what do they mean by gentle parenting as well do they mean like you know letting them find their own way leaving them to it i don't i don't get the gentle parenting i don't know because i think also the gentle parenting is a i think it comes with the terminology or like the kind of opinion that it's very soft right and it's very like okay i need to remain calm at all times that does not happen in anyone's household like it cannot you know what it should be named as is authoritative not authoritarian and not lax, but authoritative.

So you're firm and you're kind. Yeah. I think that's the combination. Kindness is the one. A combination of firm and kind. That feels really upsetting. I can see you're angry. We're not going to have another chocolate.

And then give them this or that choice. You know, let's go get an apple or tangerine. I'm going to unpick what you said. So it's a lot about what like you can see happening. I can see you're angry. I can hear you're feeling frustrated. I can see you really wanted that toy. And just by identifying what it is that they're feeling, it kind of sits in them of, okay,

mommy understands me or daddy gets what I'm trying to communicate. And if that's not what they're trying to communicate, then they can push back and say,'m not feeling angry I'm actually just feeling really sad yeah and then you're like oh okay you're feeling sad I can work with that yeah so a lot of um a lot of the emotional literacy and labeling the language helps to um open up those conversations and helps them to identify it and also what we find is especially with like mental health in the later years if something's got a label if something's got a name to it you don't feel like you're the only one going through it yes yeah so if you label that as i can see you're feeling angry because x y and z then the child can internalize that and think oh there's a name for this great mom dad gets it someone gets it i'm not alone in this i'm here with them and that's a

really important message and you know what the piece of the puzzle we're missing here is then what do they do about that anger right so like they're angry and you're okaying the emotion you're labeling it but then what yeah where do we go from there yeah because it's one thing to tell them that but then when they're screaming and you're trying to calm them down, I've found recently, and I've really had to tell myself this, and this is just something that, like, if he's blowing up, I have to remain calm

and I'm trying to talk to him calmly and he's screaming and screaming. Oh my gosh. And there's some days you just can't do it. There's some days where you're like, I have had enough. Mummy is trying her hardest. And he's like, I don't care.

It's too much noise. I don't care if you're trying your hardest. And he's like, I don't care. It's too much noise. I don't care if you're trying your hardest. Try harder. Try harder, you stupid woman. But I just say, some days, and in the night, if he's screaming for milk

or he's screaming for a bottle and if, you know, some days we give in for, depending what you've got on the next day. For sure. And I'll have to say to him, I have to stop him and go, Mummy's going to get the milk.

I'm going to go downstairs. You stay calm. And it has worked on a couple of occasions. He's gone, okay, okay. Not all occasions, but the remaining calm in me is what I've found. But how do you do that when it's, when it's, how do you take yourself to a place of remaining calm? Yeah.

When they're completely blowing up and you've had it all day or you've had it all week or you've had a busy week, you've been working and you get back. What, what, do you have any tips we're not like proposing that we're perfect people that do it right all the time because we're not one of the things that jem taught me is make it small and i learned that at school as well when we were training as teachers is the quieter you go with your voice and the calmer you bring and even if you physically move your body down to their eye level right what you're doing is rather than bringing the anger up, you're containing and making it small.

I'm doing ASMR now. Nice. I like it. Play it back later. But yeah, and so you're containing and you're making it small and manageable. I think also knowing your own triggers is really hard. I think it's okay. Like you do get to the point where you're like, I'm trying my hardest. Please just leave me alone. And I think at that point, it's important to say, mommy needs a minute. Model what you would essentially want them to do back to you. You say, mommy needs a minute. I'm just going to take a deep breath in. I'm going to take a deep breath out i'm going to take a deep breath out we're going to calm it down we're going to lower our voice and i think if you can

like fear said if you can switch into that lowering and it's kind of like a conscious decision because it's almost forcing that to happen isn't it as well in yourself like okay right let's like even if you're not really meaning it in that moment like okay yeah but you're also modeling mummy's feeling really frustrated you can see because i'm starting to snap or shout yeah I'm going to calm and I'm going to take some deep breaths. Do you want to practice with me? And that is modeling breathing techniques to calm down. Yeah. We, we talk a lot about breathing techniques on our course, but also I think it's important to also go in with the repair after it'd be like, sorry, I didn't handle that well. Mommy wasn't listening to what you were saying because I was feeling really stressed.

Don't push it back on them because you were being annoying and you wouldn't stop talking. It's more a case of how were you as the adult feeling in that moment? Because by you taking ownership is teaching them later in life to take ownership. And also it's okay to make a mistake.

Like as long as you go in and you say, sorry, can we talk about what you want? Now we're all calm i'm feeling a bit calmer now what were you trying to say to mummy because kids sense us like they can either they'll continue pushing the button just to see where the boundary is or actually they'll be like oh what's going on i've messed with her too much i need to stop okay this is the line and i don't going back to what you said about at night you give in, I don't think it's, I think giving in isn't a bad thing. And I think we're almost trained to think that it is a

bad thing of like, oh, I can't give them every need they want, but why not? Like, how great is it that there's someone in the world that is giving you everything you want? And I don't think we should feel guilty if they're asking for something and we give it to them. I mean, my daughter is going to rule the world probably one day, but she is a screamer. She screams like all day at me. And a lot of the times I will have to stop her and say, you're trying to ask me something. Yes. But you're screaming at me and I'm not listening to the screaming.

It's too loud. I can't hear it. Exactly. What is it you want to say? And then you always give them that opportunity or you model for them can you ask mummy for the milk nicely say mummy please can I have some milk yes so you model it for them and then you give them that opportunity to say it back to you and then you say definitely of course I'm going to get you the milk you want to respond nicely yeah I've got my daughter she loves she's gone into sort of moan vibes oh

oh yeah oh god it's the moaning it's worse than crying I don't mind he did this thing in the early days where it didn't matter

what happened I put him in his high chair he'd moan even while he's eating he'd be moaning and I was like the food is in your mouth shut up

you've got what you want you've got what you want and the moaning I can't handle when as they grow what i've noticed with my daughter luna is that i'm saying to her i'm hearing a moaning tone can you ask me in a calm polite tone so and i will show her i'll be like can i have a banana instead we could say mommy please can i have a banana and i'll be like can you try it again mommy please i'm so proud of you well done for fixing up and changing the way you've communicated with me that's brilliant and so and then praising the

effort because that's something really powerful about growth mindset is when we want them to feel proud of themselves we don't always want to focus on the achievement at the end or the outcome it's about the trying and i as an english teacher i'm like use your verbs anything with an ing great listening great trying so focusing on the doing shows them that the effort matters more than the outcome and that oh my god if I if I can get one message to parents that massively improves growth mindset as they go through school and then I see from the teenage side that they can try again and they make mistakes and failure isn't the worst thing in the world and it's okay to not do their best first time, but they're going to keep trying

because the trying is what matters most. So, yeah. But it's not about praising everything, is it? It's not about praising everything because that's how kids end up on X Factor. I think if you're specific with your praise, so in that example, if you're specific with your praise, I think they'll learn what their own strengths are.

So well done for trying to sing. Yes. Or well done to fly away. Then I think if they just hear like good girl, well done, like really generic, they can't really actually place what they're doing well. So if it's a case of like, oh, I tried really hard. I don't really care about the outcome

then if they're hearing that then they want to repeat it whereas if you just say good girl good boy they've probably moved on to drawing on the walls and they're like great she thinks this is great yeah well done keep going oh my little artist yeah great trying to not draw on the walls. Welcome to the Train Happy podcast with me Tally Rye. This is the podcast that helps you have a feel good relationship with fitness, food and body image. Each week we'll be digging into an intuitive and inclusive approach to our health and well-being as we're joined by leading experts, friends of mine and you to hear more about the journey of letting go of diet culture and feeling good in the skin you're in. It's a podcast for everyone, no matter what body you're in. You can find us wherever you found this podcast. Just search Train Happy wherever you get your podcasts and hit follow.

Can we talk about consent as well with little ones? How, it's such a big topic and I'm so pleased it's become a big topic as well. But how early do you start with consent and what form does that take? As early as possible. Like changing nappies, I'm changing your nappy. I'm going to wipe you. Consent at that age is just talking through what you were doing because you're involving them. It's their body.

Yeah. I do actually say, do you mind if I poke your willy down? Yeah. How amazing. Because what you've done is you've asked like a teeny tiny person for them to say yes or no. And that's massive. As they then grow up, you can give them. And Gem and I differ on this because I'm like,

let's talk about vulvas and use the correct, like anatomical term. I saw this on your Instagram and I thought, I know I call it is Willie. My other half's like, I used to teach him Willie.

Cause I go, what's that? And he goes, Willie. Cause I find it amusing. My son calls it my vagina. My vagina. Vagina. That's adorable. But you know what we can do is we can say listen mummy's got a nickname and that's the nickname but the

proper term is penis or testes or whatever yeah um my daughter came home was like i call it vulva but everybody else calls it nuni and i'm like okay well that that's their nickname for it but we know what's the real term it's a vulva and even now as she's in the bath and you know exploring her toys and i don't know whatever ends up happening if she wants to have that conversation i will explain like yeah that's your clitoris it feels very powerful and sensitive that's your labia majora and i know that for so many parents they're like oh my god the words talking like masturbation and bodies terrifying but you know what ends up happening is if we don't talk about it the taboo and the fear and the shame

and the no words the lack of language continues through the next generation on the boys side so my son he's probably gonna kill me if he ever listens to this

they're all gonna kill us so for therapy now guys he's very much into like his willy basically yeah of course not in terms of playing with it but just like he's got it

it moves around, it's cool, it's fun. And I am teaching him at this stage that it's his, it's private. He can touch it on his own. I'm not shaming him around touching it because from a young age, they get erections quite young.

Oh, I know. That is a terrifying thing when you're changing an app and you're like, oh my God. It's aimed. Oh, I know. That is a terrifying thing when you're changing an app and you're like, oh my God. It's aimed. Oh, wow. So, yeah. So I've taught him always from a young age that it's his. It's not to be shown anyone else. Yeah. Not for anyone else to touch. It's also about personal space.

Do you say those words to him? You say, this is your penis. It's yours you say those words to him you say this is your penis it's yours literally those words to him yeah it's yours no one should be looking at it no one should be touching it he's borderline five so I now give him the opportunity

to pat it dry himself or does he want mummy to dry him because they're still young I'm saying to him things like you shouldn't be looking at anybody else's if anybody does show you theirs or asks to look at yours who can you go to in school to tell them so you label the teachers who can you go to at home you can tell mommy and daddy you can tell mama and papa you can tell grandma and papa like anyone in your family unit that he can talk to but you need to

highlight who they are like don't just think oh it's assumed because unfortunately when it is assumed it's almost like when a grandparent's like give me a big hug yes and then they don't have the words to say no thank you so coming off that topic actually and just using words simply to well we'll separate into two if it's about physicality and hugging goodbye or saying hello you could literally teach your little one. You don't have to give your body to anybody. It's your choice. So if a grandma wants to give you a hug, she and you can teach your family units asks, shall we wave?

Shall we hug or shall we high five goodbye? And that is active consensual choice of how do I use my body to communicate? And then there's other, you know, for example, like we were saying were saying before you know that's your vulva and it's only for and i would get her to remind her only for me nobody else touches it it's incredible that we didn't have this years ago and we all just went into it blindly yeah but then also setting them up so nobody knew what their bits were do you know how many women i'm like they're like sorry what's my labia minora and i'm like so funny isn't it bonkers that we were never taught this yeah and people just thought as a hole you know it's like all of it's you know a vagina all of it's a vulva people are like people

didn't know that there were like different bits to it some people didn't even know there was like holes in the middle i remember like having that conversation with friends in school i remember being terrified of like putting tampon up i was like yeah but where does it go so there's a big change in schools at the minute where consent and discussions around bodies is coming earlier and earlier and earlier which is excellent um so that people have the knowledge and the language and so i'm teaching my teenagers now and we draw we put a big vulva on the board i'm like who knows what you know big penis on the board with the testes and everything but then it's not embarrassing either because you're taking the embarrassment for them and you're like here it is this is it in its glory

for sure who's got questions yeah and actually so so working so as a parent working in in collaboration with the school is really important so knowing what your school is teaching in its PSHE content, so you can almost match that at home as well. Maybe just message your school and say... I was going to say, can parents ask teachers? Can they say what is it that you're learning? overview of each topic on their school website so you can definitely see in advance i think um but bringing it back to like kind of the young consent age of how young you should start that it's never too early if you label it as you're going along if you label the correct terminology if you teach them about privacy without shame so things like yes he can play with his willy on his own and yes the clitoris is very. And it is a place of stimulation because you'll get a lot of children from a young age, like rubbing up against the high chair because it feels nice. Exactly.

And people tend to go, well, I'm not going to look at that. Like when a dog starts humping something and everyone's just like, well, actually, most people laugh actually when that happens. But it's like it just. Yeah, you're right. It's sort of like shrouded in like shame. So so instead we should give them a time and a place it's totally okay to play with your private sections your genitals whatever you want to call it um here's the time we don't do it when we're with friends but if you're playing you if you're in your bedroom by yourself that's totally fine if you're in your bathroom by yourself that's also totally fine we don't do it

when we go play at somebody else's house so you're giving context of appropriateness i'm just introducing the concept to my son of personal space i was like you stick your arms out and that is your personal space because he gets up in my daughter's face and they like wind each other up i mean they're playing yeah but it's still like a massive invasion of her space. So we had like a whole conversation last night about this is your personal space. No one can really enter it without you wanting them to enter it or you being invited into somebody else's. So just about kind of, it's not an in-depth conversation, but it's just bringing awareness of what it is. Just drip feeding it along the way. Exactly.

Getting it in there. Ashley, of course, has just had another little baby little baby girl beautiful ada um what are your tips for sibling relationships how to teach a toddler like not to be so rough or you know because i remember my niece sort of kissed her little brother with her teeth by mistake you know in the beginning and it was like was it by your nose yeah yeah so like teaching siblings to get along, I guess. So something that you can do is get a doll and they can practice with the doll.

And you can say, can you show mummy how you're going to cuddle your sister brother with the doll? Okay, that's a bit tight. We can do that on the doll. Either you can say we can do that on the doll, but we're not going to do that on the small baby. But if you think that's going to be

too complicated then you can just say we don't do it like that let's practice till you can do it so you're using the pressure as the pressure kind of um assessor the other thing i will say is when you are dealing with your baby and your toddler wants your attention or your child wants your attention. Don't blame the baby. Yes. I'm too busy is a sentence. Yeah. Or I want to come in a minute and don't blame the baby because what you were doing is you were building up an excuse or building up like a reason why you can't do it. And it's all falling on the baby. So that's going to build resentment between the siblings. So it's just very much a case of i want to give you my full attention can you wait a minute um you can set things up like a play box that they can go and play when um you're changing the nappy or something also try and avoid

it's easy to do and it's a really easy hole to fall into but try and avoid giving them all the responsibility can you go and get me the nappy can you go and get me this can you go and do that because then they form this kind of I have to be responsible before their time yeah so it's just being mindful of bearing that in mind like yes they can be helpful you can ask them don't you you're trying and I guess that's the mistake not the mistake that's the the thing that parents fall into you're trying to include them in it but then actually you're making them work and then i don't want to do that if they say no say okay fine like you like i think if you want to include them again using the doll say i'm going to change my baby can you change your baby so then they're doing it at the same time as you because um yeah they don't want

to just be the nanny or the maid or like whatever to just go and get it. They want to be with mummy and being like mummy in that moment. So even something like having a saying to the baby, maybe it's our time now. Like it's going to be time with him or her. And so that they know that it's their like 20 minute special time. And you're like, baby, you're going to have a rest here. And you're going to stay with granddad and I'm going to go over here over here we're gonna have some fun on the swing not even that extreme like you could just be like hold on baby i'm just dealing with my first child so they hear you two talking to them the same exactly so it's the same oh yes oh i love this i'm gonna forget it immediately

and have to listen back later of course the. The joy of Instagram. Exactly. So what's the most common problem that parents come to you with, with teenagers? Let's move on to teens. So I would say that's actually really varied in terms of scale. A lot of the time we're looking at either really extreme behavior or really intense issues with mental health. And I would say the big ones are anger and fury and parents not knowing what to do with that anger or fury of their teen often boys interestingly the core wise and and sometimes weirdly actually and then the girls i often end up with poor self-esteem lack of confidence feeling really low and then that playing out in like being a school refuser or not wanting to hang out with

their friends on the weekend that kind of thing the self-esteem thing is so interesting that so many children lack that it shouldn't be it feels like it shouldn't be something that kids should even be entertaining but i guess it starts so young with so young i mean i'm having those conversations down on the primary end of things yeah um and we say confidence builds resilience so if you can throw your child that confidence and build their confidence then they're going to be more resilient because they're going to be more self-believing like yes i can do this and something that if you do it's really smart if you kind of talk about your child you're between your teen in front of them so they're kind of in earshot but not to them but

about them so something like oh my gosh i'm so proud of tommy like he did so well in his cricket you know he he persisted and their team lost but i was so intent so proud of his resilience he tommy is listening he has overheard that and he's got like a little fuzzy like yeah if you've got no one to tell tell their ted. Teddies from a young age are really powerful. You can be like, wow, do you know how great Tommy did in PE today? He was such a, he tried so hard. But you're telling the teddies because they're hearing it. And also, yeah, bear in mind, like, how do you talk about your child when they're within earshot and without earshot? Because it feeds into their kind of internal voice.

And like one of the big things that we always talk about is actually recognizing your internal voice. So that's what I work on with teenagers is what is the critic or the confidence cheerleader talking to you? When you get into really difficult moments, you're prepping for an exam and you're like, I can't do it.

There is a voice that's happening inside that's like, you're rubbish. This isn't going to work. You can't do this. And then there's a tiny, teeny, tiny cheerleader who's like, you can. And then I'm like sitting on your shoulder, like trying.

It's turning that little cheerleader up, isn't it? Absolutely, it's turning the guy up. So one of the best ways that I teach teenagers to kind of essentially like refocus on the cheerleader is affirmations that they say to themselves. So we decide with my teens, you know, what four affirmation sentences feel really powerful to them.

Like, I am full of courage. I can do this. I am exceptional at maths. You know, I try really hard. I'm incredibly kind. And if they have sentences that they can repeat to themselves whilst they're brushing their teeth, not even, they're not even verbalizing that loud. They're just hearing them in their head. Once you start to say something kindly to yourself enough eventually it feels like it could be a possibility in a reality and what you're then doing is you're making the cheerleader voice loud yeah so you almost can like pretend that there's like a little cheerleader being like you are so kind and then they practice like i am so kind i can do this i am capable there's a pen you can get that you can write it on like a whiteboard oh no or a mirror sorry a

mirror and so my son we've got on his mirror well we had on his mirror a few positive affirmations um and i was like well which one do you feel right now which one do you want to say can you say it i am brave i am kind and also you can question them like well what do you think makes a good friend what made what Why do you like that person? When did you show kindness today? Yeah. When did you show kindness? What makes you a good friend to somebody else? Get them to think about those kinds of questions. At the end of the day in school, I used to get with my class, they used to close their eyes and I used to always ask them, what one kind thing did you do for

someone today? What one kind thing did someone else do for you today? And what one kind thing did you do for someone today? What one kind thing did someone else do for you today? And what one kind thing are you going to do when you go home? I didn't ask for the answers. I never let them answer it. But just asking those questions. Just thinking about it. Yeah, just thinking about it. Just sitting with the thought. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nice. Just to get them to think like, okay, there's other people in the world. I'm a good person. I contribute to this. People impact my life. And when you get to like between age of, and I'm sure in teenage, like friendships,

what to look out for. Oh, this person's always being horrible to me. I feel like this when I'm with that person doesn't mean I am a negative person. Or I am a rubbish friend. It's just when I'm with this person. And I think highlighting that from a young age also kind of helps the rhetoric as they get older yeah god there's i mean it's a maze isn't it we've not even touched on like

bodies as well how they feel about their body confidence oh my goodness well anybody that wants to go and check it out they can head to your instagram can't they and would you give us your instagram again so we're at toddlers teens and between you can find us on insta facebook linkedin all the places. And we have a young years course and star charts and Gem and I do bespoke one-to-one calls. So we are here for you. Yeah, the courses is something I really want to look into because like I said, we were saying, you know, antenatal class and all that. And where do you go?

It's brilliant. Okay. We have had a listener email. This is Simona. She writes, did you find navigating friendships any different after kids? This is aimed at Ashley. I feel like I felt such a shift

after becoming a mother that a lot of friends with kids I just didn't feel got me. And I feel like the whole thing shifts too. What we need from friendships changes and disappointment we feel of friends don't make an effort with our kids, etc. So it's not obviously what you guys are

here to talk about today but it's um it's such a systematic change isn't it when the kids arrive and it's almost saying goodbye to who you were oh yeah and trying to make that shift and also I this is what I've come to realize recently and it was only last night actually that i thought to i was like i have changed yeah like i've been fighting it for so long and trying to go along and still be me but yeah with this you know person that needs me the whole time yeah and i'm busy and everything like that so it's accepting how to how do new mums new parents accept that their life has changed. I think it's really hard. I think also you can't control how other people are responding to your situation because

I know I was one of the first out of our friendship groups to have a baby and so no one kind of brought food round or did anything because they didn't know. I never understood. A friend of mine out of our friendship group who had babies first, I'd be like,

yeah, come down to London. It's my birthday. And I was like, surely she can just give the kids to someone else. I didn't get to. Or bring it with. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Fine. That'll be all right. It fits in a buggy. What are you doing? Yeah. And it's so, you know, and I remember sort of she'd been down three days

and she was upset and I was like, it's only three days. Like, but you don't, until you're there, you can't understand it, can you? But it's so,

it's so it's so important because we have friendships through stages of life and we also have friendships kind of for ages and stages and so when we assume and wrongly as we move into motherhood or fatherhood that everybody else is on the same page as us what you're doing is creating like distance and actually being able to communicate your needs is so powerful. And that's what we're trying to get our little ones to do. I'm really struggling. I would love if you came over and bought me a takeaway and being able to communicate that.

Because so many people like when I, I wasn't a mum for a long, long time and I didn't know what the right thing to do was. And that's something that I want like everybody listening to know that there's no right thing. And you're not doing something wrong. If you're a mum, you're not a mum, you're a dad, you're not a dad. It's actually just saying like, can I help and how? It's a really powerful question. Again, we teach the kids like, what do you need from me? What can I bring?

Like, what can I do in this situation? And you can teach it to your children as well. Like if they're going through something and you're like, do you want this? Do you want this? Do you want this? And they're just like tantruming still. You say, what do you need from me what is it that i can give you right now i'm being honest too because i have a tendency to just go no i'm fine

and get on with it myself and actually food was the thing i needed in the beginning because it was like you know the you know all hell breaking loose you're trying to feed a baby you're trying to feed yourself yeah anyone turning up with food would just have been so welcome and i did have friends who sent you know those uh the the cook yeah that's so weird you know anything like that just a delivery but you wouldn't know that unless you've done it it's like the same as when we all got married like it was so cute to see all the bits that people did in the wedding and then people did it to me and it was like oh i didn't know i should do that so i'm gonna pass it forward it's almost like the rite of passage of like passing it forward you pay it forward it's the food it's sending on the

food just send food drop it off don't even come in yeah I don't even want you in my house I just want the food I just want the food unless you're coming in to do my

laundry yeah but only in the way that I want it done oh yeah yeah so it has to be like that yeah and don't hang it up like that please but anyway ladies it's been so

lovely to speak to you today thank you so so much Gemma Sophia they can find you at toddlers teens and between thank you so lovely to speak to you today. Thank you so, so much. Gemma, Sophia, they can find you at Toddlers, Teens and Between. Thank you so much for coming to join me today, ladies. Thank you. Thanks, Kat. It's been great. Woo.

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