Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Making Cooking Easy for Your Little One with Rebecca Wilson!

Episode Date: October 16, 2022

Chef and author Rebecca Wilson joins us to give us some tips to making cooking easy with new ideas and inspiration for cooking for yourself and your little one. We discuss cooking things that are already in your kitchen, dealing with fussy eaters and looking at the controversial topic of pouches. Get in touch with us at [e-mail]--------A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Well hello, so it is 11am and I have just stuffed down loads of itsu chicken dumplings on my way here so I feel like the pregnancy cravings are well and truly in. But this is also pretty typical of me and how I approach food. I feel like whilst I'm very good at lots of parts of adulting and therefore parenting my weakness is it a weakness I've just always been absolutely crap with food and food prep like I think because I'm quite busy and I know that's not an excuse because there's lots of busy people who are really really good cooks and who really spend the time prepping meals I am just not that person like up until very recently my fridge would be the fridge that would always be empty and then I get

hungry and I panic and I go out and buy something like ready-made and I just don't know how to tackle it and sadly Tommy is a little bit like me in his approach to food so it's quite stressful with Alf now that he's well and truly down his weaning journey and now that I have a second one on the way I'm even more like conscious of like right I really need to like crack this part of adulting and this weekend we went to go see my sister her husband and my little nephew Jasper who's just a couple of months younger than Alf and it's actually so nice so Alf's 21 months now I think and Jasper is four months younger but he's actually quite advanced physically compared to what Alf was so they're quite sort of similar and it's the first time that I've been there with them together where I really see their personalities come out and how different they are.

Like Jasper is a little lunatic. If there is something to jump on or climb up, he will be that person. And if Alf goes down the stairs, he will stop by the stair, sit down, go backwards and climb down. Whereas Jasper will just charge towards the stairs not even looking at the fact they are steps and just like fly out Alf cries everything like if the if literally like a feather hits him he'll be like ah start crying whereas Jasper would like hit his head against the table corner and just like stand back up and crack on again and I noticed it with food Alf is like I want to say quite a fussy eater. And actually, I wonder how much that is to do with me, because when he first started his weaning journey, I was really good at, I say cooking.

It's literally like really basic, isn't it? Giving him some broccoli and giving him, you know, a little combo of finger and weaning. But Jasper would eat anything like leftovers. We had a roast yesterday and he'd have like the peas and the carrots I have to try and disguise those things and I'm worried so I basically wanted to speak to someone today who I not only have her recipe book and have used her recipe book um but she is an award-winning Sunday Times bestselling author, a phenomenal chef. She's also a mum to her daughter, Nina. She's on Instagram, Instagram Sensation.

And I've just found out we are also from the same little town in Northumberland, Texham. So it's Rebecca Wilson. Thank you so much for joining me. Oh, hello. Thank you for having me it's so such a pleasure to be here so I've actually got your recipe book in front of me what mummy makes and it's amazing by the way but what whenever I say on Instagram I'm struggling with food ideas so many people recommend your book and it was actually because of that that I got in touch because loads so many people recommend your book. And it was actually because of that, that I got in touch because so many people were saying, you need to buy what mummy makes, you need to buy what mummy makes. And then I was like, oh, I've got that book and I have been using it. So let's start

from the beginning. How did you sort of, were you always into cooking or was it just when Nina came along that you panicked like I am and thought I need to get on top of everything now? Well I think I have always had a real passion for cooking. I grew up in a family where my mum cooked every night and we sat around the table and food was quite a big part of my life. I wouldn't say I'm a cook a home homeooked meal from scratch every single night of my entire adult life. That's not what I'm like. I'm very much a convenience cook. I like to make food that's super quick and simple and make recipes on the dot and use up ingredients that I have in the fridge.

That's the type of cook I am. And I've always had a real big love for recipe books. I've been collecting them for ages. So writing a recipe book myself is just a madness, really. I can't believe this is my career now. I've just published my fourth one, which is just crazy. Yeah, I'm excited about that because it sounds like a bit of me. It's called Fast Family Food. And I was like, I need a bit of that in my life super quick yeah I mean I think that one will be the most helpful for you because I think if I'm if I'm right in thinking it's the thought

of cooking that's the daunting bit of it it's the thought of having to think of what to cook and then having to buy all the ingredients. And then you feel like, oh, I've got to make time to actually cook it now. And that's why I wanted to write this book, Fast Family Food, because it's all just proper homely food. Most of the time, most of the recipes using ingredients that you will probably have already lying about in your kitchen. And everything is prepped in just 10 minutes so it takes away that sort of feeling like I've got to get up and cook now or I've got to factor in half an hour to cook now it's just 10 minutes that's all you'll need and I think if you think about it that way it makes it feel less stressful

and less daunting. Yeah do you know what I follow a mom on Instagram and she put up this weekend her timetable of her food plan for her kids and like every breakfast it was like something different and every lunch and every dinner and it it actually like freaks me out because I'm like what about all like how do you fit all that food in your fridge and what about the weight like how like the whole concept of cooking and I know this is probably really basic adulting for some people and you're probably like how have you survived to 35 and you still don't get it but the whole thing is baffling and even um today I'm actually going to see my friend um she's got a newborn so I said to Tommy oh can you pick Alf up from nursery? You know, all the usual.

And he was like, what should I make him for dinner? And we both were like, I don't know. And we've been really bad that the supermarkets have like these ready meals. And we know that they're not that good, like their pasta and pizza. And I mean, it's not what, you know, when I started out with the weaning journey and I was doing like the bitter vegetables and, you know, being like, I'm going to get him into all of this stuff. And because he's so fussy, like Jasper, my nephew, honestly, like you could put anything in front of him. Whereas even if I cook it with like butter and cheese and anything to try and disguise the taste, Alf just won't eat it so then it makes it stressful because i'm already bad at the adulting admin of like doing a shop and prepping meals and then knowing that you're

going to spend that time and you might not even eat it yeah and it makes you feel like you don't want to do it in the first place yeah you feel like you're gonna fail when you get to the end point and then what i find really interesting in your book and what I love the concept of is that it's what like just cook once for you and your baby, which is obviously the ideal thing. But then Alpha always eats early and we normally eat after he goes to bed. So how do you even, how do you tackle that? like what basically can you just talk me through everything from the beginning because i i feel like i feel like i haven't matured from a from a teenager or adolescence with this side of life so it's definitely for me the most stressful part of parenting oh bless you and well i think i think if you can try and just take away that that stress and try not to feel like it's really, really important because it is

important, but it's not so important that we need to worry about it. And I think the reason why I created these types of recipes, because I only want to be cooking one dish per meal. I don't want to be cooking something for myself and something for my daughter or cooking something for her and then forgetting about myself. And then I'm hungry and I'm crabby and all of that kind of things. So I just wanted to cook once. And I appreciate that everybody's got different feeding schedules. So I quite like to eat together with my daughter and eating together with your little ones, you are minimizing fussiness and helping them to grow their confidence in food by watching you and how you're doing and really being encouraged by you.

So what time would you eat with her? Even when she was like a toddler, what kind of time, what would be your sort of schedule? About half past five is the time really. But I've always been quite sort of slack on the routines. It's worked for us. I know some people find comfort in the strict routine, but for us, we kind of were a bit more fluid.

But generally between five and six would be dinner time. And then depending on when that's finished, we would think about bedtime after that. But on occasions when I haven't actually eaten with her, say I'm really not hungry at all and I don't want to eat or, you know, we're all different just as our little ones, which is another subject on little fussy ones, not eating. But I still would cook the family meal and I would say have a tiny little portion as like a little snack and sit with her and then I can reheat mine later on so you are still only cooking once and you're

minimizing that energy you know food prices for um um using the oven you know all the energy cost is really expensive now so minimizing how many times you're actually cooking one day is really great. But also, it just takes out the fuss of it all, doesn't it? And if you just have like a tiny little portion as a tiny little snack, when you're sitting down with your little one, they are much more likely to enjoy it as well. And that minimizes the whole, well, they're not even going to eat it. I'm cooking this all and they're not even going to bother eating it.

So if you do have a tiny little bit with them, it can often be quite positive. To be fair, I quite like eating early. So Al finishes at the trial mines at five. So obviously if I can plan a meal or cook a meal or whatever it is, I could actually eat with him at 5.36. The problem is obviously Tommy would still be at work then and um but i guess that's the same for a lot of it is tricky it's like the juggle of especially

when you're both working as well but i guess even for stay-at-home moms it's like when are they where do they find the time to like prep the meals right i guess nap time it is really tricky to fit everybody's schedules in i think i think you've just got to try and do your best. There's no set rule on what works for everybody. I think the important thing is, is if you can't eat with your little one, or it's not something that you want to do, you want to eat with your partner later on, let's say when you're both home. I think the important thing is to still sit down with your child while they're eating.

So they still have that family mealtime element. And as I say, just have a tiny little snack. It's just what I prefer to avoid is having my daughter eat by herself. And then she's not that interested because she can see me pottering around. Because I'm so, it's so tempting to go do some of the jobs, you know, while she's at the kitchen table for me to do the dishes or get on with other stuff while she's still and not under my feet, you know, but I actually have to stop myself and think, now I'm going to sit down with her, have a drink or a cup of tea, or just have a little plate of what she's having and, and just

enjoy time together, talk with each other, talk about what's on her plate and how I cook the food and what she likes about it. And that engagement is really encouraging for a positive mealtime. God, you know what? It's so interesting because Alf, I've managed to get him on to eating pesto pasta. That's always been my guilty pleasure so the reason he

started doing it is because i put whatever it was that i'd given him in front of him and i think it was probably still mashed veg and some chicken or whatever at the time and i was eating pesto pasta because i was starving um it was just a couple of weeks ago so because i'm pregnant obviously i'm eating like i just eat a lot more i'm so hungry thank you um so yeah then he started wanting to reach for my food and i was like oh you won't like it and then i don't know why i just presumed he didn't wouldn't like it um and it was like for seedy so you know it's quite easy to grip and he loves it and i wonder now that you're saying this it so makes sense but he was watching me and he wanted what I was having and now he he likes it and even last night because we got back quite late we sat

together and we had it whereas and I know that there'll be mums that are like gasping horror at this and probably like be very judgmental but like usually I just whack him in front of an iPad because he eats better when he's distracted. I have noticed that sometimes with my daughter as well. And also I want to say the shame that comes with the way we parent our children should never be a factor. Do what you need to do. It's your child and your life, you know. But there are other ways that we can also think about how how we want to feed our little ones and if some days you just really need this or you just want them to definitely eat and

they can you can put an ipad in front and that's fantastic but we could also take that element of the distraction and put that into conversation and a distraction around discussing what they're eating and really sort of giving them lots of attention can also have that same effect of the distraction rather than just sitting looking at their food thinking, I don't want to eat that. But it takes a lot of effort from us as well, and we have to think about ourselves and how much energy we have in that day.

But I think if you can at least do it two three times a week that's a start definitely isn't it and we don't have to be perfect parents every day um just if you can yeah and I like that but I really like the idea of like sitting with him and even like telling him because obviously we go through his books and he's always pointing out carrots or whatever it is but I wouldn't I mean it's so obvious when you say it but I wouldn't think if there's like carrots on his plate that were chopped up obviously he's not going to associate that with like the carrot in the ground in his book so that's even like conversation that you can have with them how how did you or do you go about like meal prepping and I'm sure there's so many people listening like come on Ashley like but as in do you have like say on every Sunday you're like

right I'm gonna prep the meals or I'm gonna plan what I'm gonna do and I'm gonna do my food shop or because I am literally like it comes to a meal time and then it's like panic sets in and I'm like what what can I make there's nothing in the fridge. Well, I mean, there's lots of ways you can go around it. You can be the mega organized parent and you can pick a day of the week and go through your cupboards and your fridge to see what you've already got in, write that down on a list and then think about meals that you can make with those ingredients and then just write a shopping list for the extra bits that you need. And then you've got that all planned for the week.

So when it comes around to the day, you know exactly what you're cooking and it minimizes waste as well. You could do that in just a couple of days ahead. I don't think we need to have that pressure of doing it for seven days a week ahead in the week. I think it's great if you've got the time and that makes you feel super organized and makes you feel less stressed. But also it can feel quite daunting and it's quite a big task as well to do if you're not in that routine. So even just doing it, you know, it's Monday, do it for the next two days, do it for Tuesday, Wednesday. And then you know what's happening on

those days and when it comes around to the meal time you feel less daunted and less stressed and there's recipes in my new book um in the slow cooker chapter which are really great because you can just prep them for 10 minutes in the morning and then when it comes around to dinner time later on it's all done and you take away that when. When's your book out, by the way? Because I'm already like, I need this. No, it's out now, Fast Family Food. And it's all recipes that are prepped in 10 minutes and it's just proper home cooking.

And there's a batch cooking chapter. There's a one pan wonders chapter. There's a super speedy chapter. So everything's ready in 10 minutes there. So it's even less stressful. You know, you know you feel like right it's dinner time now kid is great now I've only got 10 minutes that's all I need to cook the ultimate podcast for married at first sight fans is here this is recapped at first sight the new podcast keeping you up to date

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the latest episode on TV. Plus, we'll have some special guests along the way enjoying our very own wedding breakfast. You bit the caterers, right? Uh, about that. Recapped at first sight. Find us wherever you get your podcasts. Is Luna ever a fussy eater?

Because I hear that some toddlers are or some aren't and then somebody said to me, my sister actually was like, yeah, but I I think I'll in that stage where textures and everything are a little bit more funny for them so maybe he's just going through a fussy stage and Jasper might go through that stage but how do you navigate the fussiness do you literally just have to keep going and keep trying different things or keep offering or what how because it is so disheartening especially if you're like me and you're not really a chef and I mean if I managed to cook a meal I honestly feel like that is my Oscar moment like I could do I could do a speech being like yeah

I am amazing I'm so on top of it yeah that is like pathetic but that that is how I am so then when I like when I go to that effort to make something and he's like straight away, sometimes he doesn't even want to put it near his mouth. He's like, no more, no more, no more. And I'm like, please Alfie, please. So what is your advice? That's another benefit of why cooking just one meal is helps me out

because it means that food's not going to go to waste. That food's still for you as well. You can be like, okay, well, I'm going to have a nice meal. You do you, little one. This food's not going to waste and it feels less disheartening when the food is refused. But in terms of fussiness, genuinely, all kids have a fussy streak. And I'm doing quotation marks here because I don, all kids have a fussy streak and I'm doing that quotation marks here because I don't think kids are actually fussy, fussy unless they have a real, real issue with food. about their preferences it's to do with um it's to do with their mood and it's to do with their

developmental changes within their bodies and um especially when this is more so in toddler ages as well and baby to toddler um which i'm talking about it goes through a phase where i think it's about 13 months is quite an often age where parents say, oh, my child used to eat so well. And now they're so fussy. They don't want to eat this. They turn their nose up or they're throwing food too much to just throwing all the food on the floor instantly. And it's to do with them suddenly becoming much more independent and aware of their own hunger cues as well. And they get like a rebellious streak in them and they know how to say yes and yes and no. And it's a psychological developmental phase and that children go through that.

And it really affects their feeding. My daughter, she's a great eater. She is adventurous, but she still has fassiest tendencies. She will not eat cooked carrots at all. She will eat them raw. She won't eat them cooked at all. As she gets a little bit older, she's at school now. She just started school in September. She watches what the other kids like and don't like and i really see how that is um that she's she brings those tendencies home as well with her so there's lots of different factors involved here um and i think it's reassuring to know that it's not just my child who doesn't eat if this is just what children are like and it's our job as parents to

keep on offering a wide variety showing them how delicious the food is by eating together not having any pressure on them by you know if they're not eating don't force them to finish their food because it gives them a kind of adverse reaction to the situation that makes them feel stressed out and it's not going to help you in the long run. And also trying to avoid offering alternatives can also have that negative effect because they'll remember that next time.

And the key is to just keep on going with a positive attitude to it and know that it will pass. They won't eat what's served food now, but if we keep on offering it, they will start eating it and then there'll be something else that they won't eat what's served food now but if we keep on offering it they will start eating it and then there'll be something else that they don't like and you know it's just it's always revolving and always changing and I think we we as parents it's our role to just help them come encourage them to eat gently and try not to put too much pressure on them do you know what you've actually

answered a couple of questions that i was going to ask so the first was about offering an alternative and the other one was about fourth like do you just force them to eat it because some of my earliest memories are my mom like sitting me at the table and say if it was peas i think peas and carrots were like the things i was like i'm absolutely not eating them and I must have been I don't know three four I was so young because we moved house at five and it was in that it was in the first house and I remember my mum being like you are not leaving the table until you eat your peas and carrots and I can remember in my head thinking like I will win this battle and I can remember in my head thinking like, I will win this battle. And I would sit and I remember thinking like, I don't care how long I have to sit here, but I'm going to show her

that I will not, I will not eat it. And I can remember like it was, we lived in a farm. My dad was a dairy farmer and I would just sit at the table all day. And every time she'd like look over, I'd just be like staring at her day and every time she'd like look over I'd just be like staring at her because I remember thinking like I will win the war and it didn't work it never worked and then obviously she'd eventually give in or the next meal time would come around so she'd have to give me something else so I was like but now that Alf doesn't want to eat obviously I would never be like you have to eat it you have to eat it because you get upset but equally i don't want him to go to bed hungry either so how do you avoid not offering the alternative well do you like peas and carrots now yeah i've got peas are my favorite eating them

now peas are actually my favorite especially like i actually like make them like from like into meals so sometimes if i'm really lazy i'll be like i'll just get some butter and bacon and whatever it is and add it into the peanuts um but yeah i do like it now but i did not like being told to eat them well i think that i think that's the key is that our children will grow to like these foods at some point in their life. So I know our role as parents is to try and shape them to be fantastic adults and to eat everything and enjoy everything and be full after every meal. But I think we've got to pick and choose our battles and how is the best way to go around it. how is the best way to go around it and I personally feel that if I force Nina to eat eat a certain food it's not going to make her like it and it's not going to make her want to

eat it next time I like like her like she's quite independent and quite um has a rebellious streak and if I make her do something she does not want to do it. And children are often like this. And I think if we allow them to come to this own conclusion on their own, I think they feel much more happy and proud of themselves and more independent in the decision-making, themselves and and and more independent in the decision making which is really important for the longevity of them enjoying healthy food uh yeah but how would you not offer the alternatives like so for example even at the moment our fang teeth are growing and quite often when he's going through

like teething stages he doesn't really like much solid food but his like go-to things are watermelon cheese and bread so sometimes if especially when he's teething if he's like no more no more even the stuff that he normally likes and he's like no no more no more and he goes cheese meme meme cheese and so then it's like well do I let him go hungry or do I like fill him up and then I and then I get and do you know what it's funny because I don't get mum guilt about anything I'm really comfortable in all of my decisions but with food I do get mum guilt because I wish I was like sometimes I look and I'm like I see like these parents on Instagram and that every meal is like green and red and orange and pink and I'll be like

here's some Weetabix breakfast and here's oh you're not eating here's some bread and some cheese and I'm like oh I want I really want to be that person and like have that child that eats everything and I never thought I would be a bread and cheese and Weetabix mom um but I just yeah I think we're all a bread and cheese we effects mom i think there's i think that's another subject of social media and try not to compare ourselves because you really that might be the picture that they're taking but is their kid actually eating all of that food you know have they only picked out the unhealthy bits of that plate and then left all the healthy green bits you know we don't know so don't ever compare yourself to what other other

parents are doing because focus focus on your own child i think that's the most important thing because you are doing a great job and you shouldn't you really shouldn't be doubting that at all and there's absolutely nothing wrong with offering we do because it's really delicious and it's healthy and it's full of nutrients and it's got milk in there, which is full of protein. So that's a really good thing. You know, that's not a bad thing at all. But when it comes down to offering alternatives and them asking for an alternative, I know that's so, so tricky to be like,

no, you can't because we have this natural instinct as our parents for our children to be full and happy and well fed, right? But it's finding that balance between breaking the cycle of them expecting something else when they ask for it so if you give them something that they're not that keen on or that they um they're not yet that adventurous with trying new flavors and it don't it's a daunting feeling for them to try something new, their automatic reaction is to not do it and ask you, their person that looks after them, for something that makes them happy, makes them feel more comfortable.

And us as parents have an urge to be like, yes, okay, I'll give you that feeling, right? And make sure that they're well fed and they eat something. But they're going to remember that. So the next time you offer something that isn't familiar to them or they're not too sure of, they're just going to ask again and again and again because they remember last time you said yes and you gave them something else. I can't sit here and tell parents to say no to your child when they ask for something else because you know your own child

and what is the right thing to do and how much they've eaten that day and how much nutrition they actually need because every child is so different. But as a general rule, I find that it's best to avoid offering alternatives so that the precedent of that action doesn't become a normality. And our child understands that the food that they have in front of them, that it's what they have to try. And if they don't eat it, then that is what's on offer. And our children are much more resilient and are much more in tune with their own hunger cues than we expect them to be.

So I think we have to trust them that when they are done or when they don't want to eat anymore, that is it. And try not to force them to have something else and something, some more food. But it's finding that balance and it's a learning curve and really trusting your own child and understanding how much they can eat

and how much they want to eat. And also this changes on a daily basis as well. You know, some days kids don't want anything at all and some days they want to eat absolute loads and that's really normal as well. So let's say, for example example i'm going to role play so i've got um your book here and in the fussy eater section there's cauliflower cheese gnocchi bake so let's say you make that for you and nina and you sit down you give her a little bowl you've got yours. And she says, no, mummy, I don't want it. So I'm Nina.

How would you navigate that? So I probably would have served that alongside a little bit of veggies that I know she would like. So it's got cauliflower in there. Nina does not like cauliflower. She doesn't like it at all. So number one, you wouldn't have given her that as a dish anyway. No, well, I would still cook it. That's the thing.

I know that she doesn't like cauliflower, but I will still cook it because it's really good to keep on offering foods that I know they won't like because they're never going to get over this aversion unless we allow them to. So I do still offer it on a regular basis. But because I know she's not too keen,

I will offer the pasta, the gnocchi pasta dish. It's got like a cauliflower cheesy sauce alongside it. And I would serve maybe some cucumber sticks on the side, which I know she always likes. So because when I put that food down on a plate and there's something that she recognizes on there, which is the cucumber, she likes it. And I know it's healthy and I'm just going to eat it. She's not going to look at the plate and be like, oh, it's all scary. I'm just going to say no straight away. There's something for her to go at. And then as she settled down in anxiety of the not too sure about foods on there, kind of goes away and we're having

a nice conversation. She sees me starting to eat the food as well. And I can do my subtle, oh, this is really tasty. This gnocchi is so yummy not like this is really so good Nina you must eat it you must eat it me just going you know a little bit over the top than you would do with your friends but just being like oh this is so tasty I mean look at this crispy bit of cheese that's really yummy and eating that bit and then they get like FOMO right they might try it and if she tries it and she doesn't like it and I'm like fine well done for trying it you did a really good job then that's really fantastic you've got your cucumber there this is only the food that we've got today so

eat the bits that you would like and you can leave what you don't what you don't want to eat and that but this is dinner tonight and that's how i go around it that's really good do you know when people say things it's really obvious isn't it sometimes you're like of course and you would yeah of course i would like you want to put stuff that they do like it's like yeah my little brain is going like okay yeah i'm gonna do this i going to do that. The variety as well on the plate is really helpful for enticing them in. You know, if they've got different elements on the little one's plate, it makes them feel more excited to kind of explore it. Not every child of mine, some children don't like that at all.

So I think it's just, this is what Nina likes. Nina likes lots of different things on her plate. So I think it's trying lots of different things with your children seeing seeing what they think do you always offer like a sort of dessert because I I I was always offered dessert both at school and with my parents but I don't know if that's quite a northern thing because Tommy Tommy and his family wouldn't always have dessert but even my parents when they come down they'll always be like what's for pudding um you know like that's like a big thing but often you know whether even if it's just like a fromage frais or some fruit do you always offer something sweet at the end or is that i completely resonate with the whole northern thing with the puddings and i this

slight little gripe of mine with nurseries and schools sometimes that they always without fail will offer a sweet pudding with every single meal lunch and tea snacks and for me I personally feel like it's not needed and so at home we don't always offer a pudding with every meal because I don't want her to grow up with a feeling that she must have something sweet after every meal. And I have that feeling after I finish my dinner, I want to eat something sweet and I often will reach for something unhealthily sweet, you know, and sometimes I'll say to Nina, well, there's a piece of fruit. If you are still hungry, you can have that if you would like, but that is, that is it generally. Don't get me wrong. Maybe once a week we do have something or something else, but I don't,

it's not like a set routine that we have pudding after every meal, but this works for us. You see, that's how, that's how we, that's how I like to parent my daughter which is not to say that if you do offer a pudding after every meal it's a bad thing because there are healthy puddings out there and there's ways to sneak in veggies as well with puddings this is just how I like to do it so that my that Nina doesn't become reliant and doesn't want to have a pudding every single day because she's already getting really sort of, really not addicted, but like she really, really likes sweets and she likes chocolate. And I want to try and minimize that,

that sort of urge to enjoy it every single day. It is a funny thing, isn't it? The whole like, yeah, you're right. Like at school, you always get some kind of pudding after but I feel like when I sort of moved away from diet culture and the idea that you have good food and bad food and cheat days and naughty food that's a treat and I feel like that all came from this idea of like well eat the boring food and then you can have it then you can have a treat right so I don't really but I don't naturally have a sweet tooth

anyway but I wouldn't have like unless my parents are down I wouldn't have my pudding like it's just not something that I really think about like for sure I'll have like a bit of chocolate or whatever when I fancy it but it's not like a you know we have pudding every night after dinner oh I see I understand that completely you want to offer variety as. And I think a nice way around that is if you do want to offer that variety, because say a parmagevaya has a lot of calcium in there and it's really good for them as well, you can offer it alongside the main part of the meal. So it's not like a given that it's a pudding.

It's a sweet thing that comes after the meal. It can be served alongside it so they can have it first if they want or they can have it halfway through their main meal but they're deciding on when when they want to eat it and it's not seen as the treat that comes after eating all your veggies or your savory part of the meal you know really interesting and as someone who i mean this is literally your job, like you make delicious meals from scratch and, you know, make amazing recipe books. What is your view? Because I didn't realize this was another controversial topic about pouches because there are pouch police out there.

Like the sirens come into my DMs and when Alf was younger and weaning, I actually thought, oh, thank God for the pouches. Because obviously I would try and do like the finger lead weaning or whatever it would be, or I'd do purees. But on the busy days or the days when we were out and about, I was like, thank God for pouches. And you look on the back and they look really, like literally there's nothing in it apart from fruit and veg. So I was like, these are fantastic. And then I put them up on Instagram. And like I said, the sirens come in like, no, no, no, no.

Like, did you know, like, I can't believe you'd feed your child pouches. And I didn't, honestly didn't know it was a thing. So as someone whose job it is, and who obviously knows about children and nutrition, what are your personal thoughts on the pouches? Well, I think to start with, people that have got a massive issue

with how other people feed their children or parent their children, it's just ridiculous. You see more and more of it, don't you, these days? And everybody's got their two pens. And I think if you parent the way that you want to do, want to feed your children and parent your children and take the advice from reputable sources take advice from where you've researched it not from unwanted unsolicited advice in in regards to pouches there are so many on the market now that are really good.

And they're full of just healthy, organic ingredients. The ones that you need to be mindful of that I personally would avoid is when you're starting weaning and you want to offer purees to your little one. Quite often, they are super super sweet and even the ones that are vegetable based have say they're butternut squash and pear and you look at or broccoli and pear is a better one actually um you'll look at the ingredients and it's like 15 broccoli and 85 pear so of course it's going to be super sweet. And our children, our babies are naturally prone to enjoy sweet foods because the milk is sweet.

Breast milk and formula milk is both really sweet. So the job for weaning is to get our little ones used to a wide variety of tastes. That includes the bitter greens that you were saying that you started weaning with. So when you only offer super sweet pouches, you're not letting your little one develop this broad variety of tastes and get used to eating lots of different tastes and textures. And so it can really be bad for raising a confident eater. They may more likely be fussy when you move on to the more solid foods. There's another argument about the amount of

sugars that are in those sort of ratios in the pouches. And that's really not good for the little teeth that are developing as well. Parenting is really, really hectic and really busy and it's really stressful. And I think if you are feeling overwhelmed one day, there's absolutely nothing wrong with using a convenience that is a healthy option. No, but you're right though. It's that sort of judgment. And for anyone who does feel judgment about this, I mean, obviously I've been saying that I've been comparing myself and it is so easy to get sucked into it but people seem to have the most to say and of course in

an ideal world we'd all be feeding our babies fresh like freshly cooked from scratch food every single day but we're also all in these really really hectic busy lifestyles like modern day society we're not in the caveman days anymore where our only task was to like cook for the family. Like it's so hard to fit everything in. And that's when I sometimes I'd be like, give me a break. Like honestly, like in my head, I'm like, pouching is better than not him, like him not having food. And on some days, it's like, what do you want me to do?

You can't catch a break because you genuinely don't have time to fit everything in a day sometimes. Right. And also, I think when your baby reaches six months and you've always had the convenience of only milk and you've been able to go out and about and do whatever you want with being able to just take milk with you or food from the breast, then suddenly to go into feeling like you need to

give them three meals a day you need to be at home three times a day to give them that food it feels really daunting and really restricting so yes we can make food to take out and about with us and that's fantastic but sometimes life doesn't work out like that and there's like last minute plans and things and i think there's nothing wrong with using pouches when you with health healthy forms of pouches when you when you need to to take the stress out of everything that you've got to do that's really good to know even like sometimes i like on my badly organized days i'll use them still as like like you were saying some of the savory ones whether it's like the curries or spag bol and i'll like put it with the pasta and some veg or whatever it is but it's like i just need a break because um i was at the child minders as well so we have to do lunches so

sometimes i'll be like so busy trying to get his packed lunch together for the next day that then thinking about another meal as well but i have to say i am genuinely really excited to buy the Fast Family Food book. I feel like I need it. And I do have a question. So every week, every week people email in or sometimes even WhatsApp in. And I had one from Sharon, which is very topical for today. So I thought this would be the question that I bring to you. So she said, Hey, Ashley, I'm getting in touch as I've been an avid follower of yours for years.

I had a little boy about the same time as you too. I find now he's moving on to solids. I'm spending so much time just cooking. Do you have an easy and quick kid-friendly meal you can recommend that I could eat too? So, I mean, this is literally like your bag. So maybe one of your recipes, your go-to recipes, that's really simple, really quick, and we can all eat. Well, I mean, all my books are full of recipes. Every recipe is suitable for the whole family from six months. But I think to pull one out from my new book,

Fast Family Food, and from the super speedy chapter, I really love the fish pie gnocchi. It's just, it's like fish pie flavors, but in a super speedy 10 minute meal. And it's full of protein. It's got veggies and it's got carbohydrates in there. It's such a great meal. And you can chop up the gnocchi really small

for your little ones and serve the fish nice and flaky for finger food or you can blend it up if you are still doing spoon feeding as well. So it's a really good meal for the whole family. I would love to know everyone else's, by the way. If you've got your go-to simple recipes, email them in and i feel like together we

can get through it but like i said um i literally cannot wait i'm gonna i'm gonna go online now as we finish this and order the meal thing because i feel like both me and tommy will benefit from it so rebecca thank you so much for your time and thank you to all of you guys for listening to mum's the word with the parenting podcast i really hope it time. And thank you to all of you guys for listening to Mums the Word with a Parenting podcast. I really hope it was helpful today. I'm sure some of you are a lot better at the cooking thing than I am. But for those of you who do struggle with ideas

and inspiration and just aren't naturally good at that part of adulting, I hope you found comfort in Rebecca's words. And I'm sure lots of you are going to be buying her new recipe book. And yeah, if you did enjoy the episode, make sure that you subscribe or press the follow button

so that you don't miss an episode. And yeah, as I said earlier, like we love to hear from you. So if you want to get in touch, whether it's about something we've talked about today or a topic you want us to cover, you can WhatsApp.

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