Mum's The Word! The Parenting Podcast - Maria Pettersson on Balancing Work and Co-Parenting

Episode Date: May 22, 2022

Airline Pilot Maria Pettersson joins Ashley to talk about how she balances the unpredictable nature of her work with being a mum to one and a half year old Alice. Maria also talks about how she co-parents with Alice's dad, and shares what she learned from her birth story. All on on this week's episode of Mum's The Word!If you want to ask Ashley a question, get in touch at [e-mail]---A Create Podcast Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Good morning, guys. It is 11 a.m. and honestly, I feel like it could be 6 p.m. I just want to say this, hats off. Actually, not even my hat off. I would like to give you my hat to any single parents out there. I honestly don't know how you did it, how you do it every single day. My dog's actually currently drinking my water that I put on the floor next to me. So that's my water gone for the podcast duration. What was I going to say? Tommy went on a stag do this morning. So he has taken a flight for the whole weekend. And so I am on my own with Alf. Obviously, I've got help to be able to do this podcast, but he woke up at five in the morning and it's just chaos.

It is chaos without that extra pair of hands. But speaking of stags and of travel, I really wanted to talk to today's guest, not only because I've actually followed her Instagram account for ages. I was saying to her, I don't actually even remember when I started following her, but I know lots of you will follow her as well. So not only do we get to discover the

person behind the account, but she just has this fascinating life and I can't wait to speak to her. She is originally from Sweden, but she's literally lived everywhere. She's lived in Cyprus, she's lived in Spain, Italy, Norway, and basically is forever packing and unpacking, always on the go. And so because of that, she decided she wanted to do a profession where she could keep traveling and explore the world. So she decided to become a pilot. And she gave birth to her baby daughter, Alice, in November 2020. And I just cannot wait. It is Maria Pettersson. Hello, first of all.

Hello. I just want to talk to you about so many things. Thank you for coming on because I feel like we all kind of have this anxiety or worry about what the next steps are with going back to work or not going back to work. And then the juggle, you know, even like my experience is different to my sister's experience, to my friend's experience. How do you juggle being a pilot and being a mum? Good question. I think it comes with any profession that you do.

Going back to work, you go back to work because you feel ready for it. It's almost like vacation going back to work from everything you need to do at home. At the same time, you get rushed with this mom guilt that you just want to be at home and you're feeling, oh, I'm leaving my baby for too long. But I'm quite fortunate in the way that the airline that I fly for, we don't do any layovers. So I get to come home at the end of every shift and cuddle with Alice and see Alice and just be with her. So it's pretty much like going back to any work. How long is the shift? I always wonder this about pilots and airline staff, especially on the kind of European flights, because I mean, it's literally like

it lands, people leave and people are on and then they're off again like all in the blink of an eye exactly so our maximum duty that we can fly is 12 hours and that's a regulation that the airline can't do anything about so that's our air law you can say but it's not unusual to have actually 12 hour shifts so 12 hours and then you usually get to work a little bit earlier just to make sure you have everything set up and double check the flight plans and all of that. So usually I would maybe be away from home an average of 13 hours door to door. Wow. And what was it like for you? So let's go back to the very beginning. So obviously you

got pregnant and Alice was born November, 2020. Did because I feel like and like sorry if this is totally ignorant but I feel like the pilot industry or career is quite a male dominated industry still is that fair yeah of course yeah it is they have like maternity packages in place and how supportive all paternity packages and how supportive can they be? Because obviously, like, let's say, for example, Alf, this morning when I took Alf into the childminder, she actually said, I actually am a bit worried that maybe Alf has got chicken pox because I saw a little spot on his bum. I will call you if I notice anything, because obviously you'll have to come and pick him up. notice anything because obviously you'll have to come and pick him up yeah you can't do that because if you're like halfway to I don't know Tenerife you can't be like I'm sorry this is your pilot speaking we're going to have to turn around because uh my Alice needs to be collected from nursery or daycare it is a tricky one and it's something that I was worried about because something could happen when we get to destination for whatever reason, the airplane could go tech and we can't fly back. And then if

they would then call me and say something had happened and I need to get back home, it's what do I do? So I've actually did an instructor course, which means that I can stay more in England. I don't have to leave the country. So I'm instructing the simulator instead of flying. So I mix the two of them, but it's good in a way that I'm actually staying in the country. I don't have to leave, but otherwise, yeah, it's like, it's like you say, you get to destination, you put your phone on and if you get a message like that, yeah, all you want to do is just to get home. Alice's dad, we're co-parenting, he and I, and he works in England. So if anything would be, then he always got his phone on as well. It must be quite interesting because I hear stories. I don't know how true this is. I mean, I actually can imagine it is very true of whether

it's people at nursery or at school and they put the dad's number as the emergency contact, but yet people still call the mom when something happens. And so there's stories of female barristers or lawyers in court or doctors, surgeons, who turn their phone on three, four, five hours later. And they're like, why didn't you call the dad? But it's still kind of considered the sort of female's role to be the primary caregiver. Have you found it like an interesting juggle, like when you say co-parent? Because also, if you don't mind me asking, what does your partner do? Are his work open to the fact that he is technically the sort of primary caregiver when you're traveling? Not really. It's not that easy that he can just take his bag and leave.

He's a veterinary surgeon. So if he would be in surgery, of course, he doesn't have his phone available. But he works mainly nights. So then if anything would happen during the day, he would just make sure that he has his phone on sound if I'm flying. And then if they would call him, that he would wake up from it, of course. up from it, of course. But funnier saying that, that they're calling the mom instead of the dad, because when we registered Alice for nursery, we both went there to check out the nursery to make sure that we were happy with it. And then I said, okay, can we have her dad's contact as the main one? Because he'd probably be the one dropping her off more to the nursery. Because for me, it didn't work with my working schedule anyway but they still kept sending all the emails to me even if I gave them his email and said can you make this the primary email I would still get all the emails and I would forward it to him so it's it's I didn't really think about it before but when you say that that they would call the mom it's it's so true when you

found out you were pregnant what was your your sort of, like, I imagine there's like a thousand thoughts for all of us, whether you're trying to have a baby or not. There's so many thoughts that when it's actually there and it's happening and you know, it's happening. Did you have to like worry about your job or did you have a set plan? I know I'll go on maternity leave here and I'll go back to work after two, three, four months. But I feel like I suppose my question to is a lot of people think, say, for example, before I had Alf, I was like, I'll have my six weeks until I recover. And then I'll be back to this and I'm going to build my coaching platform. But then obviously when the baby's here, it's such a different reality to what you maybe were planning.

a different reality to what you maybe were planning. But how soon did you go back to work? And was there a part of you that just thought, how on earth am I going to manage? How can I be a pilot and a mom? Yeah, good question. Because I'm self-employed through work, meaning that the day I told them that I'm pregnant, they were more like, okay, let us know when you want to come back. But it also means that I wouldn't get any paid through that time. And they don't allow us to fly when pregnant. So already, when I told them that I was pregnant, I first thought, all right, I'll wait to 12 weeks, which is when everyone says that, oh, I'm pregnant, which is stupid in a way, because you kind of want the support on the early weeks as well. But I was supposed to wait. That was my plan. But then COVID happened and no one really knew what the deal was with being pregnant

and catching COVID. So I was too scared to fly. So I told them quite early that I was pregnant, meaning that I had the whole nine to 10 months off during pregnancy. And then afterwards coming back, I felt I needed to get back as soon as possible only because I've been off already for nine months not getting paid and then I felt okay I need to get back to work but it actually ended up taking me about seven months to come back and then I had to stop flying for for some reasons because I had a miscarriage after that. So I needed to stop flying for that reason. And so

it took me almost a year until I was back fully. So yeah, it took some time. But my plan was, as you say, Alice was going to be born in November. And I thought, okay, by March, I'm going to be back flying full time. But yeah, that didn't happen. First, I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. I actually did a podcast episode last week all around loss and my recent experience with loss. And I think it's, I'm so sorry you went through it, but it's so nice to know people are talking about it. Are all pilots self-employed

or does it depend on the airline in which you work for? Because that, it feels, it's like really shocking to hear because I'm self-employed, so I don't get paternity leave. But the nature of my job was that I could work throughout my pregnancy. And obviously, I could kind of go back within reason as soon as I wanted. But to hear, I guess it's like a sort of maternal discrimination, because yes, I understand if it's for safety or for whatever reason that a pilot can't fly from the moment they know that they're pregnant. But how can people survive financially in those circumstances if you are a female pilot? Because regardless of if you have a partner or whatever it is, that's a huge amount of time to not get any work or support. amount of time to not get any work or support. 100%. I was lucky then that Alice's dad could keep working and we were still together at that time. And I had some savings that I could use as

well during that time, but savings would usually not be what you plan to use on a maternity leave. Everyone's not self-employed. It's the contract that I had looking now, it's looking like I'm going to get hired. So hooray for that. Congratulations. Thank you so much. But also some airlines do allow you to fly when you are pregnant. And I was totally fine pretty much throughout my pregnancy. And I feel like probably I've been flying until 36 weeks or something, but it was the company policy that they don't allow us to fly and so yeah it's as you say you you'd be off for almost two years without to pay what is the reason behind not letting you fly because surely if you have i presume a pilot and a co-pilot i mean

i literally know nothing about flying plane i mean i'd say i went on like a little holiday in between the lockdowns and I was 30 weeks pregnant and that's fine. So it's like, it can't be like surely a safety risk of being up in the air because I was allowed to fly. Exactly. So I think they just don't want to take any risks. And I guess every pregnancy is so different. Some would be sick all the time and not being able to go out of bed. But of course, then if I would have been feeling that way, I wouldn't go flying. But since I almost didn't even know I was pregnant because I didn't feel anything, I would have happily been able to fly. But I'm guessing they

just, they don't want to take any risks. So they just say, okay, no one is flying when they're pregnant. It's almost treated like a disease then. And I get so upset thinking about it because if you are feeling fine, why should you not be able to do your work? Yeah. I mean, it just seems baffling to me that I understand being self-employed and so you're not like obliged. They don't have to give you pay or anything, but it's such a long period of time to go without being allowed to work. It's quite astonishing. And I wonder if it is because it's typically a male kind of dominated industry that it's something that they've not had to consider before. But 100% can promise you it's probably a man that has said that,

okay, let's just not take any risks. So if someone is pregnant, let's just not have them fly. I don't know. Because every woman who's gone through pregnancy and been feeling fine feels like how I feel I would happily be flying and no one it wouldn't be a different for me I'd be so interested to know like the different airlines policies and also like what the reasons are behind it all let's go back so you said that you were planning to go back to work after three months but obviously between experiencing

loss and also not feeling ready you waited what was originally meant to be seven months and then to a year so like there's so much there are so many logistics and for anyone listening who's thinking about going back to work like it's so much like you don't think about isn't isn't it like you know my sister wasn't in employment her husband's in the army so obviously like she's quite limited with options of what she can do for work because they have to move all the time and for her like you know deciding what job to go into and then like how much money would she make and by the time you pay nursery would would it even be worth going back to work and there's all these like logistics not to mention the fact that will the baby be okay without me because obviously we are like they're so used to being around us and suddenly the thought of having to sort of pluck them away from you and kind of put them in this

new environment and obviously if you're breastfeeding that's a whole other side to it what was your the kind of like thought process and how did you go about finding child care I still find it so we haven't put Alice in child care yet we went to to view a few different nurseries but because of our working schedule it just never really made sense anyway because we need early morning shifts help and late night ones and you know the nursery hours they're not open for that but I still find it so hard even if just leaving for work I'm like oh I'm gonna miss her I want to be with her or when I'm dropping her off to her dad when she's staying there it's it's so hard

it's if it was up to me I want to take with her all the time she can sit in my lap when I fly the airplane it's just so nice to be like flying first class guys exactly I was going to work with my mom bring the car seat she can sit there on the jumpsuit in the back it's so cool yeah so so how therefore if you haven't if you haven't sorted the child care and your partner or ex-partner, her dad, if he works at night and you're working, I presume quite ad hoc shifts or daytime shifts, how do you sleep? Where do you sleep and how? So when I work, so I actually start working tomorrow and this week we couldn't, so I work in a pattern of five days and then I got four days off, which is quite generous. It's more than the usual two day weekend. But this week we couldn't sort it out because both Ali's dad and I are working. So my mom is actually over here. She's been flying over from Sweden and she's going to find babysitters or nannies that are flexible enough to not be here all the time. So it's not the full time guaranteed hours.

And it's every month her dad and I were kind of comparing our schedules and say, OK, this day we still need to figure out. And here we have a day that both of us are working. We need to figure it out. So it's a puzzle all the time and it just never ends. But it's just something that has to work. And in the end, Alice will always be the main priority. So we have to make sure that she will be the one looked after, first of all. Also, how amazing are grandparents? The fact that you said she's flying over,

you know, like even tomorrow, because Tommy's on this stag do, Tommy's mom offered to fly back. They've got a house in France and she's flying back from France to help me. And wow, like grandparents. And also for people that have like friends and family who live close, who can help,

it's just like, it's such a blessing, isn't it? Like, and especially if you have grandparents that are willing to fly across countries to be able to help out with the juggle is yeah that my mom she's she's flexible to come over yeah very fortunate for that and also sometimes I go and leave Alice in Sweden and she will spend time with my mom and my sister my sister's kids and she would stay there for my five working days and then I would fly back and and pick her up again it's so funny like so what is it like flying with a baby as a pilot like do

you feel like you have all the tips on what to bring on a plane with a baby because I need to hear them first time I flew with Alice she was she was seven months I would probably have flown with her earlier, wouldn't it have been for COVID because I just had so many flights canceled. So she was seven months first time I flew over to Sweden. And I think first time we went, I just had a big backpack with everything in it.

And you kind of just put yourself in a situation where you're making it more difficult for yourself because you're not mobile because you have the kid and you have this big bag with all the toys and everything that you wanted to have. And you just get so heavy with carrying everything around. But been flying now, I think Alice, I don't know how many airline miles she would have, but she's been she's quite a regular flyer. the airline miles she would have, but she's been, she's quite a regular flyer. And I've learned that a small little bag with some snacks and it made it a lot easier when she actually started eating snacks when she was not just on milk. So some snacks and these pouches like the Ella's kitchens or some of them that she loves and just a few toys. And the end what usually keeps her quiet is just to put

cocomelon or something on and I put it without audio to not annoy everyone around me but especially during boarding because she she would usually fall asleep as soon as we get airborne but during boarding that can sometimes take half an hour and I'm sitting there trying to hold her down and she's now one and a half and she's quite strong she's not sitting in front of me and wanting to stand up or run around and during boarding they just want everyone to sit down and then yeah a little bit of cocomelon is what saved me a lot of times i have to say the ipad i'm all about the ipad life and snacks snacks snacks and more snacks but it is hard like when i flew to france to tomm's parents' place on Rhino,

and I think maybe because of COVID, I'm not sure, but they keep the seatbelt sign on because they don't want people wandering around the plane. And it is hard trying to convince a 16, 15-month-old that they have to sit on you or at least, you know, be around you. And, yeah, I mean, I really envy even today like Tommy he left at like four in the morning he's going to Marbella I think I said so I was like I'm not even jealous of like the sunshine or the beach parties I'm just jealous at the thought of number one you're

getting to like sleep in your own bed and not have to wake up at six in the morning or five in the morning or 5 30 as it was today. And also to get to take a flight on your own without a child. Like what was that luxury that I took for granted? I know. So when Ali's dad and I, we went to Portugal last, even if we're still together, we're still trying to do things like that every now and then.

And because I can get on the flight for free when I saw jump seat, which means that I would fly as a standby crew. But Thomas then had to book the tickets with Alice. So he had the infant tickets on his tickets. And I get a seat when there are seats available, which means that we wouldn't be sitting next to each other. So he had his seat with Alice and I got a seat which was like 10 rows further up front and it was like I was like I get to actually sit on a flight on my own and I could have a little bit of snacks and I could have to trade down to put my

coffee on because coffee with an infant in your lap it's just too hot to drink because you're too scared to spill it all over them and you have nowhere to put your cup. So as you say, yeah, it was a little bit of a luxury, especially if I would hear Alice scream further back and then I would almost feel guilty sitting in the front in my own seat and just relaxing and enjoying the flight. and enjoying the flight. Welcome to Paranormal Activity with me Yvette Fielding, a brand new podcast bringing together people's real ghost, extraterrestrial and paranormal stories as well

as getting some inside details from those who study the supernatural. I'll be listening through your paranormal stories every week and try to understand them as well as chatting about my own encounters with an occasional paranormal investigator too. You can find us wherever you get your podcasts from including Apple Podcasts, Spotify and Acast. Just search for Paranormal Activity with Yvette Fielding. Search for Paranormal Activity with Yvette Fielding. Do you know what I would love to talk to you about? Because funny enough, I was speaking about this with a friend who lives near me,

a new mum friend or newish mum friend, and also with my sister. So similar to what you were saying about you and your partner, how you work not the conventional sort of nine to five hours. My sister, who has gone back to work now, she has to work Saturdays. And then she has like a random day off in the week. So it's not the same day off so that she could plan childcare. It's always just a random one. And she was saying today how hard it is and how much pressure it is on her and her husband, because obviously they're not having that sort of time together on the weekend. And it means that he's working sort of his five day a week job, but then is also having the baby on his own on the weekend. And just like all the like tensions and resentment

that kind of comes with relationships. And it's interesting because so like Tommy and I, we've been together only since December 2019, whereas my sister and her husband have been together since school. So they've been together for like over 15 years, I think. And yet it's very clear to me that we all sort of have the same like bickers and difficulties and tensions and rows and feelings of resentment. And, you know, all of these these things I feel like being in a relationship with a baby people can't comprehend the shift in dynamics so even the longest

healthiest relationships it's almost like being in a new relationship because everything changes that is the hardest because that one is actually changing more than if you haven't been together for that long before kids. Having kids would be your normal relationship. If you've been together for 10 years before having kids, then it would be like, oh, it's not the same anymore. And things are so different. Whereas if you've only been together for a short period of time, your normal would be with kids. That's the relationship that you would get to know each other in yeah maybe you're right I was gonna say like I actually didn't know that you and

your partner weren't together so please like you don't have to share anything that you're not comfortable with sharing but how do you navigate your dynamic as a relationship or even now that you're co-parenting when your shift patterns and your sleep patterns and everything is so different because presumably if he's at work in the night when you work together like that means that you are on that night shift with Alice so no matter how many times she wakes up or how early she gets up in the morning that's on you because he's at work. Exactly we never saw each other because he worked nights he would come home and then he would sleep during the day so Alice and I would still be at home and she was quite colicky until about seven months.

So she would be screaming all the time. So of course, wanting to let him sleep as much as possible to be able to work nights, we would try to be outside. But at the same time, I'm sitting there and being so frustrated myself because having a baby, it's like working nights as well. Cause you don't, I almost got jealous that he would get a six hour solid sleep during the day because I would not get a six hour solid sleep at night and I would definitely not get it during the day. But yeah, definitely getting back to that, navigating through relationships when you have different

work patterns, you don't get the traditional weekend off you yeah it's hard it's hard and we had only been together for six months before I got pregnant with Alice so I guess we didn't really have that strong of a foundation to keep building it on especially when we didn't see each other yeah wow because I mean I know how hard it's been for Tommy and I and we do see each other I can I can honestly only imagine how are you navigating co-parenting because I know there'll be lots of people who I mean it's all I feel like it's always in your head isn't it like how would I be able to do this on my own or how do you navigate that as a kind of new dynamic in both parenting and your relationship in the beginning just the thought of me not having Alice all the time

would totally freak me out. So I think we stayed in a relationship that wasn't healthy for us longer than we were supposed to, only because of the fear of not being with Alice every day. And I think eventually it just got to turn that it's better to be with her and getting that quality time than her being in a relationship where the tone that we speak to each other isn't healthy for either one of us, not for him, not for me, and definitely not for Alice. And it's something that still, it really scares me because there's going to be times where she learns to

speak and she learns that she has her own will. And maybe I do something that upsets her, which could be something small, like just telling her to go to bed or saying that she can't play with something at a certain time. And she's going to say, I want to go to daddy then. And I know it will probably come. Things that it's going to be said even if she's not meaning it in a mean way she's you know how kids are they're going to say things and it scares the holy everything out of me to be honest it's because it's something that's quite new for us yeah I think it will definitely come with challenges so please if anyone's been doing it for a longer period of time than I have I I'd be happy to take a lot of tips from all of you.

Yeah. Maybe there is a podcast episode that we could do is find somebody who is successfully co-parenting and has been doing it for a while. I definitely did see research though that shows obviously it's way better to be, because you know how there's this sort of old saying that's like, stay together for the kids, or there's this sentiment that it's better to be because you know how there's this sort of old saying that's like stay together for the kids or this is this sentiment that it's better to be together for the kids even if you're not getting on and I saw research that actually this is like completely unfounded because of course it's better to be happy and healthy and you know for that child to be whether it's in a single household or a co-parenting dynamic and obviously not be always around like the shouting and the arguments and everything but one story that I love my friend

her parents broke up when she I think she must have been like seven or eight so a bit older so she kind of knew what was going on but um her mum said that one day she kind of noticed that my friend was crying in her bed, like hysterically. And her mom felt so guilty. She was like, I can't believe I'm doing this. I'm taking my daughter away from her dad. And, you know, I've broken up our family. So she was going, darling, you know, people break up, but they move on and they get happier. And she was saying, it's not fair it's

not fair and anyway it turned out at the end of this whole thing that my friend was crying because take that the boy band had broken up so when her mum when her mum was saying to her people people break up my friend thought she was talking about take that this whole time whereas her mum felt so guilty that she was like, what have I done to my daughter? And then when my friend was like, I don't want them to break up. And she was like, wait, who's them? Who are we talking about?

And she was like, take that. Kids, they adapt. She didn't even think about it. To break up from her parents. So like take that. That breakup switch so much harder for her yeah and I have to say she you know now has a mom and a stepdad and a dad and a step mom and she gets on so well with both sides of that and she even says to me I can't believe my

parents are ever together they're honestly like chalk and cheese I'm not surprised and I know that she never ever resents either of her parents for breaking up so yeah I feel like you know a lot of the guilt that we feel yeah I mean imagine how much worse you'd feel like growing up in a household of like arguments and I mean obviously everyone argues but you know what I mean just like a constant like and also what that says to the child about what the norm is for relationships so I actually think it's amazingly brave but also like very selfless to do what's right for you because ultimately that will be what's right for you for Alice and for you know any anyone that comes around in the future yeah definitely definitely because it wasn't yeah it's breakups of are never easy, but much better for her to grow up in two happy households than one broken one.

One where we're not talking to each other in a respectful way. And that's not, as you say, she will grow up and thinking that's how a household is like. And that's not what I want for her. Of course, everyone will argue that we can't agree on everything, but it's about how often you do it and the arguments more frequently than actually being friends. And are you ever friends or is it just arguments? And it came to a point where it's time for her to have two happy households.

No, I'm happy for you. I think it's amazing that you both did what was right for you. I also need to ask completely off topic, by the way, but I believe from just what I've seen that you had a positive birth story. So I feel like if this is true for my lovely listeners, because we talk a lot about, there's just a lot of different birth stories. And I think to reassure anyone who is listening, who is pregnant, if there's a positive one, we need to hear it.

Yeah. I absolutely loved my birth or Ali's birth. And if I could do it again, I would want to have it exactly the same way. Wow. Saying that, I don't think everything was not like perfect. It was not going when you picture your birth. I actually started getting contractions and Thomas was working nights. So I used one of these mobile apps where you can track the time between the contractions. And they got to about three minutes between them. And then I thought like, Oh, this is going quick. Cause I've heard about people that are sitting at home

for days. So I called him back from work and then they kind of stopped and he went to bed because he's been working all night and I couldn't sleep because I was still getting contractions and they were still, I wouldn't say painful because I actually kind of like a period pain, but just coming a little bit more intense. It was more a curious kind of pain, but not painful. I stayed up and then I was on the phone with a friend of mine. She had just given birth three months earlier. And I said, it felt like I peed myself. So I told her, I'll call you back. I'm just going to go and have a look because it feels a little bit strange. And I didn't know that that was my water breaking, but it came out all colorful, like not pretty colors at all.

And I told her, I called her back and I said, I think I need to call the midwife just to double check that everything is fine. So I called them and I was on the phone with a midwife for maybe about 10 minutes and during this time I was getting contractions but I wanted to be polite so I kind of like sat like this and tensing when the contractions came and let her speak so I could like breathe them out and she told me that oh it doesn't sound like you have contractions but you can come in and have we have a look anyway and I was like oh my god it's so painful. How can you tell me I'm not having contractions? And because I told her that it came out some water and it came with a funny

color. So she said, okay, put a pad in and then come in and we will have a look at it. And I got to the hospital and my trousers were just soaked. So I had to actually change in the car because I thought I can't go into the hospital like this. It looks like I peed myself. And because it was COVID, Thomas wasn't allowed. So I had to go in on my own. And I was like walking up the stairs, stopping on every step, like breathing a little bit and felt like everyone was staring at me knowing what was going on. I got to the ward and they asked me to take the pad out, but it was just so covered in like different kinds of colors and it looked disgusting. So I was too embarrassed to show it to them. So I just throw it in the bin. And then I told them instead, like, it just looked too disgusting

for me to show you. I'm so sorry. And then they said, okay, we're going to have a look at you. So they had a look and confirmed that my confirm that my water had broken. But also that Alice had had a little poo inside. And I didn't know that that could be dangerous. So I kind of started giggling and I was like, yeah, of course you did. And then, haha. And they looked at me just very seriously, like, why are you laughing? And because I didn't know that that could potentially be dangerous for her

I felt a little bit embarrassed because then they came back and I spoke with the doctor and he said okay well she's she had a poo so that means that we need to get her out as quick as we can so I just told them do whatever you want to do if you need to do a cesarean you do a cesarean I'm I'm not one of them that feeling that you're stealing the birth from me because if that's going to happen, if that's what's safest for Alice, that's what you're going to do. And they ended up putting me on oxytocin. So they're inducing hormone, the drip. Right. Yeah. They asked if I wanted an epidural and that was actually the only thing that was in my birth plan. I want an epidural. Everything else I had left blank,

just up to the midwives and doctors, but I want an epidural. So they plugged in an epidural as well. And then 12 hours later, Alice was out. Wow. So did you have a vaginal birth or a C-section in the end? It was a vagina birth in the end. Yeah. The oxytocin just worked really well. Yeah. 12 hours and it was open 10 centimeters. And I don't know if they can put the limit of epidural that they put, but I told the midwife, she said, okay, next time that you get a contraction, you're going to push and we're going to see if the head is going to, like we're going to try to push out the head, but I want you to hold it a little bit. But I told her, I'm pretty sure that the head is coming out now.

And she said, no, no, no, it's fine. It's not going to come out. And the midwife kind of turned around and I said, I'm pretty sure it's coming out now. And she said, no, no, no, it's fine. It's not going to come out. And the midwife kind of turned around and I said, I'm pretty sure it's coming out now. And she turned back around again and there was Alice halfway out. Wow. In a rush. Yeah. And I presume she was fine. Yeah, she was fine. She was fine. But she was a little bit shocked that she just

literally just turned around and turned back again and she was halfway out. So I think I had it easy in a way that I, because she had the poo, they needed to get her out, not emergency quick, so not cesarean, not emergency cesarean quick, but she still needed to come out. So when they put me on the oxytocin, it was only 12 hours later that she came out. It's so interesting to me that number number one that that's a positive birth story for you because amazing that it is but you know it sounds quite like stressful so I feel like I wonder if it's testament to your character that you like stay calm in those situations but also what's interesting to me is why don't they give us all oxytocin if it really If it really just helps speed things along. I had the room, I had the monitors.

They had a monitor on her heartbeat all the time. I felt so well looked after. I had a midwife that came in and checked on us every 30 minutes. Was Alice's dad allowed in when you were actually in active labour? Yeah, he was because I had my own room. He was allowed in the whole time. He slept half of it, but he woke up for the birth. And what was your recovery like?

Did you stay in hospital or how soon did you manage to get out? And what was the recovery like for you? I stayed in hospital because she had the poo. They needed to check her oxygen level every two hours for 12 hours after she was born. So I stayed after 12 hours. They checked her oxygen level six times and they were all fine. I asked if I could go home because by then I was moved into a wardroom and I just saw these 12 other beds and 12 other screaming babies. And I thought, I want to get home and sleep and I'm probably not going to sleep here. So I asked if I could go home and they said that was fine.

Little did I know that I should have stayed because I would actually have gotten more help from the midwives allowing me to sleep more because I don't think I slept anything for the last next two nights because Alice just wouldn't sleep. So if I can suggest that to anyone about to give birth, stay in the hospital for as long as they allow you because you learn so much and they will come with helpful tips and tricks that I felt that I missed out on. That's so interesting.

My friend Lucy Meck, she said the same to me. I actually left after five hours, mainly because... Five hours? Wow. Yeah, to be honest, I'm actually really surprised they allowed it now. Looking back, especially how big the baby was and the tearing. But because of COVID, I wanted to be with Tommy and I just wanted to get home. And I think they said because he was such a big baby,

they weren't worried about me establishing breastfeeding overnight because they were like, he will be fine. He can last a week. Yeah, but I do remember the next day I felt really good. I obviously didn't realize it. It's like the burst of adrenaline and oxytocin. And I remember going for a walk around the park. And annoyingly, like there was paparazzi there,

so it ended up in the Daily Mail, which was really annoying because I hadn't told anyone yet that I'd had the baby I just wanted to keep it to myself but my friend Lucy was like what are you doing walking get back home now sit down she was like don't you like she was like your stitches are not going to heal if you're walking around like and I had the baby on like on the baby carrier because I was so excited to try the baby carrier out and you know you've got all these new toys and she was like do not go for long walks around the park like you are a mad woman like get home sit down recover and I was like okay but it was probably like the best advice because obviously now I know more about pelvic health and not loading up your pelvic floor with a baby after giving birth and stuff.

But yeah, it's funny, isn't it? I will take that advice for next time to actually, as you say, rest at home more. Alice's dad had two days off. Well, I'm lucky that she was born on a Friday, Friday the 13th, actually. So he had the Saturday and Sunday off, was back at work on the Monday. But I wish my mom was supposed to have been in England and helped me out and my sister as well. But their flights got canceled because of COVID. But next time, definitely going to have my mom here

and I'm going to be sitting in bed or lying down in bed and just, as you say, let the body heal a little bit more before I start walking around and going out and doing things. Yeah, and we just have to hope that there'll be no more lockdowns. And that is just something that we've put down to history and something that our kids will be, we'll be like, well, you were born during lockdown. And they'll be like, I know you tell us all the time. Thank you so much for chatting to me. Honestly, I find it like fascinating, even like speaking to a pilot,

a female pilot and to know all the ins and outs and just how you've done the juggle and breakups and makeups. And it's been really, really interesting. And hopefully you guys all enjoyed hearing Maria's story as well. And thank you so much for having me and for everyone listening. Thank you. And yeah, to all of you guys, thanks so much as always for listening to Mums the Word. And if you enjoyed the episode, then don't forget, you can hit the subscribe

or follow button so that you never miss an episode. Actually, next week, I'm doing an episode on toddler tantrums. So that could be something that you are interested in as well, because I know Alf

coming up to 16 months. The anger is coming and I can't wait for that. So yeah, stay tuned. It's the coolest thing. You take something away from them and they just tense the whole body and throw the head back.

Yeah, Alf just keeps hitting his head really aggressively and I'm like, don't hurt yourself. That is an episode I'm really excited to record as well. So get in touch if you want to say anything. If you've got co-parenting advice for Maria,

her instagram account is at pilot maria and you can also get in touch on whatsapp i'd love a voice message it's free send a voice message and then we can play on the podcast it's 075-999-27537 or you can of course email me at askmumsthewordpod at gmail.com. And I will be back with another episode on toddler tantrums, same time, same place next week.